Haley Sacks aka 'Mrs. Dow Jones' Reveals Why Saving Isn't Enough, How to Heal Your Money Mindset & Build Wealth + More
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
What's up his way up at Angela.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Ye, it's me and Stacy tisday on a Wealth Wednesday.
I'm so excited for this one.
Speaker 3 (00:10):
We both are happy Wealth Wednesdays everybody, and we have
Missus dow Jones.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Well, hold on, we got to say New York Times bestselling.
Speaker 4 (00:18):
Author Missus dow Jones for you.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Some of you might know her as Hailey Sachs, who's
a founder of Finances School, which is a financial education
company focused on making wealth building accessible. But there's so
much more to this woman. Her book Future Rich Person,
It's hit the New York Times Bestseller look list recently,
and you got We've been sitting here chatting it up
(00:42):
before this even got started, so we figured we had
to turn the microphones on.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
I'm so excited because I've been following you for so
long and I get a lot of great information. I mean,
even with the Knicks, you know, and you're talking about
Jalen Brnson and why he did the deal he did,
and we're gonna talk about all of those things.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
But welcome to the show. It's so good to have
you here.
Speaker 5 (01:00):
I'm so excited to be here. I'm such a fan
and a fan of the show, but also of both
of you just as like business women. And I feel
like I Angela like know way too much about your
financial life and I'm fully invested in all of the
moves and you like keep us all on our toes.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
We both went to Wesley into but I know that
car Wesley made the list of one of the most
expensive schools right now over one hundred thousand dollars a year.
Speaker 4 (01:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
It don't even sound real.
Speaker 5 (01:28):
No, it really doesn't. But you know, I got a
lot out of it, but I don't know if I
got one hundred brand out of it. Yeah, yeah, which
is a lot.
Speaker 4 (01:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
And you went a really different route. Oh, I mean
you grew up with the family with your dad actually
worked on Wall Street. Yeah, but it was so interesting
in your story. That didn't mean that you knew a
lot about money because just like everybody's family, they didn't
talk about it much.
Speaker 5 (01:50):
And you know, it's so funny, sacy is. The research
shows like with generational wealth, ninety percent of it is
gone by the second generation and seventy and it's gone
by the third generation.
Speaker 4 (02:01):
WI.
Speaker 5 (02:02):
Yeah, because you can inherit money, but you don't inherent
financial literacy. But I actually think that's really powerful because
if you're someone who feels like money's not for you,
like you're you know, there's so many people who got
in their own way. They've all these limiting beliefs around finances.
They just think like they're missing a chip. Maybe they're
born with like some different understanding than me. The truth is,
we're all born at zero. It doesn't matter where you're born,
(02:24):
what situation you're born in. Two you come out of
your mom and you don't have any sort of idea
what's going on with like your money, Yeah, you gotta
learn it.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
What's your earliest memps because even when you're not learning,
you're learning, Yeah, because you're absorbing what they're doing. What's
your earliest money memory with them?
Speaker 5 (02:41):
My earliest money memory is so like I was like
a little girl who loved snacks, Like I was really
chubby when I was little. I was like mostly focused
on finding pringles, and so I just wanted to get
pringles and I but they I had no choice, Like
there's no infrastructure in the household to teach me about
(03:01):
money or like create a system with which I could
accumulate any money. And so if I wanted like a
snack at school where it was like a dollar, two dollars.
It's like I didn't really know how to get that,
so I would have to sneak the money. Like there
was like a little uh container, ye have money in it?
Speaker 4 (03:22):
Yes, okay, I went three girls.
Speaker 5 (03:24):
Oh we're so bad, we sold from our moms.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Yeah, I want to take it out.
Speaker 5 (03:28):
I take it all, of course, and maybe you find
a five if you were lucky. But mostly it was
like putting together four corners or a dollar.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
Notice, yeah, they never noticed.
Speaker 4 (03:36):
That is wild.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
It's the three of us. I bet it's so many
people out there, you know, everybody.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Just do that on purpose, like let's leave this money
here and act like you know, it's like a little
petty cash.
Speaker 5 (03:47):
Yeah, pringle cash. I mean, what did you use yours for?
Speaker 2 (03:52):
So there was this Hamburger diner that was on the corner,
and so whenever I felt like I wanted to go eat,
I'd go in a little stad, take a few dollars
and go like get you know, kind of notice, there's
no way they don't know the unless you know, she
might it that my dad took it.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
Or ad vice versa.
Speaker 5 (04:09):
That would have been worse if like someone else got framed,
but that never happened.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
Yeah, no, they No one ever said anything to me
about it, your mom.
Speaker 5 (04:15):
Yeah, sorry mom. That was my earliest money memory of
like I think of like not being able to count
on myself and then having to go these like convoluted
ways to get what I wanted. And I think that's
really like the same for what presented later in my
life too, before I sort of healed my relationship with money,
where it's like I didn't feel like I could count
on myself. I did think, Okay, maybe I'm gonna have
to like marry someone or my dad's going to take
(04:36):
care of this, and like was really all about outsourcing
all my financial power because I didn't have self belief
that I could do this.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Yeah, I agree with that.
Speaker 4 (04:45):
You know.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
My earliest memory my brother and I used to there
was a piano in the living room and like there
was like stuff underneath it, and we would take this
stuff and sell it to my grandparents even though it
was theirs, but.
Speaker 4 (04:58):
Parents their own stuff.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Yeah, and the I would like pretend to buy it
from us and like give us a little money. Like
we'd be like, here, we have this for sale, and
they would really give us, like, you know, a quarter,
and we thought we were like selling them things.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
I don't know what, but it was cute. I guess
it's cute. We were salespeople.
Speaker 5 (05:14):
I know, you're like you're practicing your sales.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Then you do go by Missus dow Jones. And Stacey
was one of the first women and the first black
person to report from the floor of the New York
Stock Exchange.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
So what does Missus dow Jones mean to you today?
Speaker 5 (05:28):
Well, you know, going back to what I just said
about that feeling of like okay, I'm gonna have to
like look out like okay for women, let's take even
a more stepback, Like we couldn't get our own credit
cards till nineteen seventy four, we couldn't get our own
business loans till the eighties. Like I really look at
us as you know, basically like the first generations of
women who really have the opportunity to choose and like
to use money to like create the lives that we want.
(05:50):
And so Missus dow Jones to me like fun, flirty,
cool name, but also means like, Okay, I'm married to
my own financial freedom. I don't have to do anything
I don't want to do girls, and either do you Like.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
You don't have to work with people you don't want
to work with.
Speaker 5 (06:04):
I can't say marry anyone that I don't want to marry.
I don't have to ask for permission. Like whatever I
want to do, I can do. And that's what I think,
missus dow Jones.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
Is all about a lot of women don't think about that.
If you are financially free, like you said, I do
to financial freedom, you can totally conduct yourself differently in
a relationship.
Speaker 4 (06:22):
Yep.
Speaker 5 (06:22):
You can decide who you want to love and all
that you need from them is love. You know, there's
no strings attached.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
I always quote my friend who said, I wish I
had money so I could date who I like. I
love that, and that's literally she's like that, always says
that because she's you know, I think it's hard to
be in like this survival mode when you're trying to
make stratesic decisions on who you want.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
To go out with. I mean, that really sucks.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
But like you said, we also have to understand the
history of where we are, and those.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
Numbers are changing pretty rapidly.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
When you think about women being the one that is
the one that's really like the primary breadwinner in the household.
What is that like today?
Speaker 5 (06:59):
Well, I love you know, I always use pop culture
to sort of like paint pictures some obsessed.
Speaker 4 (07:03):
With I sure do, and some of it.
Speaker 5 (07:06):
We're in this really cool time though, Angela, where you know,
we're seeing this summer of pop star weddings and we
just had Douleipa's wedding. She's worth one hundred and twenty
million dollars. Column Turner's worth five million dollars. We like
prenup and we like, yeah prenup at but like she
knows she can choose her shoe outs. But same with Taylor.
Taylor's worth so much more than Travis. And so I
(07:26):
think it's just like really awesome to see in the
culture that it's like we have these rich, powerful women
who are just making decisions however they want, Yeah, bearing
who they want.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
That's so awesome because I think about the impact that's
gonna have on these girls. And one thing you do
talk about Generation Z, they also have this kind of
dichotomy going on about feeling financially helpless.
Speaker 5 (07:50):
Yeah, I call it. In the book Learned Financial helplessness,
and it's basically like financial nihilism, And it's this idea.
I mean, look Stacey, like you know, you you guys
know so much about like the economy and what's going on.
Like since two thousand, weges have increased seven percent, the
cost of living has increased sixty seven percent. If you're
(08:11):
in gen Z, you know you have huge student debt.
You you feel like you're never gonna be able to
buy a house. AI is taking all the jobs. Like
you feel like the world is closing in on you
and there's no opportunity, and so as a reaction, you
decide to look rich instead of be rich. Maybe you're
going to, you know, use buy now, pay later to
(08:32):
fund your coach tele tickets. You're going to just like
spend money that you don't have to live a life
that you haven't earned because you feel like that life
is so out of reach anyways, and the world is
burning and we're on a floating rock and so who cares?
And I think it's really important if you have that
mindset to take a step back and know that there
is actually still so much opportunity to grow wealth. It
(08:55):
just might be a different path and a different American
dream than your parents told you about.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Right, I mean you have this Abiza Abiza Abitha. Yes,
So break down Abitha and what that means for people
as far as like identify, blame, tell us about that,
just because I think that's a great method for people
to understand their financial situation.
Speaker 5 (09:17):
Yeah. So first of all, Angel, Like, I've worked with
tons of thousands of people, and I will say, like,
you could give anyone financial advice, like, but they're never
going to take it if they don't first work on
their identity and they first don't like heal their money mindset. Yeah,
because my belief is where all your action comes from. Yeah,
(09:38):
And so the first part of the book it's all
about breaking that down. And so I have this proprietary
five step method Abiza. So the first step is to identify, So, like,
what are the things that are holding you back financially?
Is it, oh I'm bad with money?
Speaker 4 (09:52):
Is it?
Speaker 5 (09:53):
You know, like this is not for me whatever, whatever,
those beliefs don't understand it and understand it. It's the
world is a right, so screwed. I shouldn't even try.
Whatever it is, it's you know, you have to identify
what it is it's holding you back. And also you know,
it could be societal forces to think about, Oh, I
saw Carrie Bradshaw always buying shoes and being fabulous and
(10:16):
broke being broken a period of time for a period
of time because she married.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Buy you this apartment.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
You went right next to it, well not down the wallace.
Speaker 4 (10:29):
But that's B.
Speaker 5 (10:30):
It's so the next letter is B, so blame. So
that's also you can blame, like because these factors are
not just from inside of you, like they're you didn't
just fall out of a coconut tree. You know, it's
like they're coming from their places.
Speaker 4 (10:41):
And then the.
Speaker 5 (10:42):
IV the third I is ignore, you know, and so
you have to actually, uh take a step back and
choose something different. And then Z is so you're going
to replace that belief with something else. You know, maybe
it's like I can do this, but I was never taught,
(11:02):
or you know, like there's still so much opportunity for me,
or you know, like I have to learn to negotiate
that I can make more money, like whatever it is
that you need to tell yourself to just look in
the miror and say you're a bad hous pitch, like
whatever it is, you have to do to empower yourself.
Speaker 4 (11:19):
Do it.
Speaker 5 (11:20):
And then the last letter A is act, which is
the rest of the book, which are those really practical steps.
But first you have to really work on your identity.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
You know, just to go along with that too.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
When we talk about how our mindset is, it's interesting
because your father worked at gold min sex right, and
he still does and okay, years girl, and you were
not good with money at all in the beginning. You
didn't even understand like certain terminology. And I know a
lot of times we can be in spaces where we
feel like things are over our head, where we feel
(11:50):
a little helpless, but we feel kind of dumb when
other people are talking about it and it's intimidating. So
what we're the and for people who are listening, because
I know a lot of us can relate to that,
because I know for me, I'm in situations where, thank God,
like I've educated myself more, but I still am. I
don't consider myself like a financial expert in any way,
but there are certain things that I feel more comfortable with,
(12:12):
but it took a long time to get there.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
So for you, what was that process like? Because there
are people listening.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
Now like, well I don't know how to invest or,
I'm just trying to save up some money, or I'm
worried about retirement.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
I'll never be able to buy a house.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
Yeah, and for context, this woman started out her career
as a comedian and it works, by.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
The way, Yeah, you talk about money, I love it.
Speaker 4 (12:32):
Well.
Speaker 5 (12:33):
You know any you can make anything funny, and that's
like what makes both full toenshion. But I will say,
like when I think about anyone's financial journey, like my mind,
or like you think about yours, Angela, like what really
stands out to me is the audacity. Like it's like,
who gave us permission to do any of this? And
it's like, no, you give yourself permission. And so it's
(12:54):
like for me, I was so help back by all
these factors coming at me. I would say societal nothing
from my family, and I really counted myself out from
like this whole world. But then when I had that
first job with Lord Michael's now baby, and they were
like do one A four one K, here's a paycheck.
I don't know how to read a paycheck. What kind
(13:16):
of health insurance flavor would you enjoy? I was like
I don't know what any of these mean. And so
I had that aha money moment where I had to
really look in the mirror and decide, like who do
I want to be? You know, this was cute for
a while. It was never cute, but you know what
I mean. I was sort of getting it away with
it until then, and then in that moment, it was like, Okay,
I either have to shit or get off the pot.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
Right.
Speaker 5 (13:36):
It's like we gotta put our money where our mouth is.
And so then I tried to learn about money and
what I found was all the information for women was
so based in deprivation. Oh definitely, yeah, And I was like,
this is so unaspirational. I don't want to do any
of this. It was literally like, re wash your paper towels,
never get your nails done.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
God for big stop, don't get a Starbucks.
Speaker 4 (14:00):
Your whole financial life that's gonna change. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (14:02):
So yeah, exactly, like no avocado toast. And it's like,
you know, it's that's we actually focus so much on
cutting back, but there is a floored how much you
can cut, but there's no stealing to how much you
can earn. Like this is why women need to be
you know, increasing their skills, learning to negotiate, like trying
to figure out how to make more money, because there's
a lot of money out there for us to have.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
I always say that one of the keys is sometimes
you just have to make more money.
Speaker 5 (14:27):
That's, yeah, my favorite thing. But in this can not
work a bad Die diet or budget. But like to
a certain expt, a lot most of us aren't making
and most of us are underpaid.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
And you know you've said this in the books that
you cannot save your way to rich. No, a lot
of people are like to save, save, save, and that's
not gonna make you rich.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
No.
Speaker 5 (14:43):
You know that, like you have to invest. You have
to make your money work for you. A savings account,
maybe you're gonna earn point zero four percent interest high
field savings account, you're gonna get maybe four percent interests.
But if you put your money in the market, it's
compounding and you're gonna get eight to ten interest. That
changes your whole financial life. You put that together with
(15:04):
earning more and then actually not spending all that money,
which we should talk about because it's so hard in
this day and age not to just like use Apple
pay like Apple be paying.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, right, is it coming from.
Speaker 5 (15:16):
If you don't know, it's like you've got nothing to
put in the market. So it's important to also make
sure that you have enough money to put towards it.
But you know, that's really the secret sauce.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
I was speaking to thousands of women last week and
I was really, there's just called there's no margin. Reality.
You have forty nine percent of Americans living paycheck to paycheck.
That's up twenty nine percent in twelve months. So that's
in the year. So when I talk to them about,
(15:44):
you know, just starting to invest in the market and stuff,
there's really and there's no margin. There's nothing left over
after paycheck. And this is I think so so many
people's reality now in this economy and this affordability issue.
Speaker 4 (15:56):
What do you tell a person.
Speaker 5 (15:58):
Like that, First of all, I mean, you can't ignore that, right,
Like it's like that's that's really what is happening, and
like that's it's really hard. And I think a lot
of it does come down to identity though, where it's
like even if you can make the shift to like
putting like five dollars away, that will start to change
(16:18):
your mindset into being someone who is it more in
control of their finances and who then maybe is going
to take control in other ways? Do you know what
I mean? But I think it goes back to again
trying to earn more, like so many people get lost
in like the sunk cost fallacy of their jobs, like, oh,
I've been here for a long time. Yeah, they can't
give me a raise now, but like in a few
years they don't. You don't own the company, you don't
(16:41):
owe them anything. And it's like even with the AI stuff,
it's like getting so scared about AI. The people who
are going to benefit from AI are the ones who
know how to use it, right, So trying to understand
what do you who do you have to become to
be a future rich person? I'm not I didn't beco.
I didn't wake up missus dow Jones like I'm thirty four,
but for ten years, Like it's like this is every
(17:03):
day building towards this. Same with both of you guys.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Yeah, like you know, and so definitely that's not Yeah,
you might be.
Speaker 5 (17:09):
So overwhelmed where you are at now, and that's okay,
and that's fair because shit.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
Is they're taking a lot of the reasons they're there
they're taking care of their children, they're taking care of
aging parents, they're taking you know, everybody's going to have
financial disruptions now because you've got to take care of
your kids and your parents are going to live to
be one hundred and somebody's going to get sick and
you're going to have to stop working.
Speaker 5 (17:28):
That's for women.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
This is like, it's mostly women. Yeah, and this is
people's reality now. So when I'm talking to them about
putting a little bit away for investing, and one of
the things that really resonated is, I don't know, you know,
when you're in that state of financial stress like I
just described, your IQ actually goes down by thirteen points.
Speaker 4 (17:47):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
So it's like you're trying to function in the world
without a night's sleep. And when you do when you
read Haley's book, when you listen to Angela, when you
do just one thing different to alleviate that, you behave
your changes so you see more options. That's such a
financial system measures behavior. So, Okay, I'm going to pay
more of my bills on time up since the thirty
(18:10):
five percent on your credit score. Okay, I'm not going
to spend I just have the bandwidth now because I
see exactly.
Speaker 4 (18:16):
What you're saying.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
I see a horizon and that actually translated into forty
four point jump in your credit score. Just knowing how
to get yourself out of financial stress.
Speaker 5 (18:24):
That's so amazing. I was thinking too. In the book,
I talk about how if you have like four broke friends,
you're about to become the fifth.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
Yeah, the fifth, Yeah you're.
Speaker 5 (18:31):
The fifth, and you know you yeah, facts, but it's
like you know, you're you might be in these in
a situation where it's like there's no one around you
that you really see building or inspires you, but we're
I think what's really cool about social media and content
is that you can curate it so that you have
like four best friends. They might not be your best
friend back. It might be that you're like, yeah, listening
missus dow Joels, you're listening to money or wealth Wednesday.
(18:54):
It's like it's like whatever it is. But I find
like waterboarding myself with content that changes my mindset does
the trick.
Speaker 4 (19:01):
It really does.
Speaker 5 (19:02):
That's yeah, it teaches you, it, like you know, inspires you.
It's that voice comes, that voice in your head that
allows you to believe that there might be another way,
because when you hear all this data and you look
maybe around at your life where you're at now, it's
hard to believe that there might be a better future.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
Yeah, and I love your concept of action money.
Speaker 5 (19:23):
Oh. Action money is everything. Yeah, So I mean and
even with what you were just saying, like even finding
that five dollars of action money is so important.
Speaker 4 (19:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (19:31):
So action money is basically the money left over after
you deduct your expenses from your income. And obviously wherever
you're at, like you might start and have negative action
money because you're in debt because the expense like everything,
you're spending too much, or it might be that you
have five dollars of action money or whatever it is.
But what I've noticed is that a lot of people
before you take your you have your aha money moment
(19:53):
and you take this future rich person journey, you sort
of are managing your money based on vibes and you're
not really like in control all of them. And so
you might see that like five, ten, whatever one hundred
dollars left over then left over at the under.
Speaker 4 (20:05):
The much you didn't see it before, I didn't.
Speaker 5 (20:07):
See it, but you're like, great, Oh, I can use
that to like we're gonna go to dinner or we're
gonna do this or whatever. But that's actually your most
powerful wealth building tool. And there was a study from
Goldman Socks that people who make three hundred to four
hundred thousand dollars are more likely to be living paycheck
to paycheck than people who make under one hundred k.
(20:27):
And so you know, it doesn't even matter really how
much you're making. You can spend all your money. The
equation is the same forever and you meet the.
Speaker 4 (20:35):
Actually internal doesn't matter rich for it.
Speaker 5 (20:37):
It doesn't matter how much you're money if you're spending it.
If you don't have that auction money, you will never
become a future rich person.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
And you know, one thing I also learned was even
when I didn't have any extra money and I was
living paycheck to paycheck, I still did start investing in
a rough IRA At that time. It wasn't much, but
it was also like something I didn't really notice coming
out of my check like that every single month. And
so sometimes I think people feel like you have to
have everything paid off to invest, but you actually can invest,
(21:04):
you know, at the same time as you're paying things off,
and it is a really powerful feeling. But I wanted
to ask you about Initially you're in school, your parents
are like, you're charging things on the car. Oh yeah,
that was horrible, and that was a real crutch for you, right,
having your parents paid for everything.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
What would you say to.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Parents now that are like, I want my kids to
have everything that I didn't have when I was growing up,
and I'm taking care of all their you know, credit
card bills and they're doing this and living the life.
What advice would you give to those parents, because you actually,
you know, when you were younger, you were able to
have that crutch, and a lot of people want to
(21:43):
give that to their kids too.
Speaker 5 (21:45):
Yeah, And I think that I would be you know,
I don't complain. It's not we would ever complain about
It's like, you know, I say that in the book too.
But you know, you have to couple that safety with
financial literacy. And I think there's there's a great and
buffet quote that I always go back to, which is
give your kids enough that they can do anything, but
(22:05):
not enough that they don't have to do anything, you know. Yeah,
And so I think that when I think about having kids,
I definitely want to give them generational wealth, mostly because
it's so easy, easy being like like simple, not easy,
of course, to make enough money that you can both
invest for yourself and then have money that you can
(22:26):
put towards your kids. But it's like not complicated. You
can even especially when you start at a really young age,
it can compound and grow so exponentially. But I think
that you have to just make them earn it. Like
I really like the idea of taxing kids allowances, Like
if you give them, you know, ten dollars, take away
thirty percent, so it's actually seven dollars, so they understand that,
(22:48):
you know, and then maybe you're like giving it to
a charity that the family really supports, or like to
your church or whatever that is. I also think that
having chores is amazing, you know, just having a system
with which your child could understand that, like through effort
comes money, Like if you put stuff out there, then
maybe you're gonna get stuff back. That's important, you.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
Know, And it's interesting my son, Yeah, how do you
deal with your son? He's been around his neuroscience behavioral
finance mother his whole life, which I see picking up.
So I would watch television with him, say, and we'd
see a commercial and I'd be like, can you believe
that company is trying to take get me, to take
(23:30):
money away from my goals to give to them. That's
such a good And then I noticed that I've noticed
he'd be watching ads.
Speaker 4 (23:37):
He'd be like, they're trying to trick me.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
And I'm like, let's buy that company instead.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
So communication and how you communicate, but what neuroscience and
research will show you one hundred thousand percent, you can
tell your kids anything you want.
Speaker 4 (23:52):
They're gonna do what you do.
Speaker 5 (23:54):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
So it's like, and that's the best thing about kids,
because who do I have to be to be the
role model my child needs me to be? And that's
my north star. I love that, And then you know.
Speaker 4 (24:06):
They see it.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
One thing I definitely wanted you guys were that was
great to talk about kids. But before that, we were
talking about talking about investing in people starting to invest. Yeah, okay,
you got me, Angela Haley Stacy, Okay.
Speaker 4 (24:19):
I'm gonna find my five dollars. But there's a war, there's.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
All these things, economic uncertainty, there's go global conflict, the
planet's getting hot. That doesn't make people comfortable about going
into the markets when you say to those people.
Speaker 5 (24:33):
I will say that there's always going to be a
reason not too. But you can't let fear be your
financial advisor. And the best time to start was yesterday,
but the second best time to start is today. And like,
if you look at all of the data, like you're
clearly someone who like loves some data. I do too.
All the data shows that if you keep your money
in for like twenty years, so that's people I've under it,
(24:53):
you're making money. It's like ninety nine percent of the
time you're making money. I'm like, those are good odds.
And you know that's the same people who say that
that are the ones who are gonna bet on the
next tonight, right, They're gonna, you know, get into the
prediction markets, like they are looking to get rich quick
versus doing the thing that's actually slow and steady and
will win the race.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
You know, as you are looking at all these numbers,
I gotta ask you, with everything happening with SpaceX.
Speaker 5 (25:17):
Oh, we got to talk about what are your.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
Thoughts because it's been yeah, it's been everything's changing now.
I mean they're literally like changing the rules for SpaceX
to go public. So for people who have been reading
about this because I know every single day and I
don't know if it's my algorithm. All I see is
like articles about SpaceX and some people listening don't do
what some people saying. What are your thoughts just in
(25:40):
general about the impact that this IPO is having on
the market.
Speaker 5 (25:46):
I do not believe in investing in IPOs as a
retail investor, and I mean that comes from two trains
of thought. One is that I really believe in low
cost index funds, and I don't believe that you need
to be an expert and be picking individual stocks to
grow wealth. You just don't have to. But I also
think that when you look at the data of IPOs,
(26:09):
like you're it's really tough to make money on them,
just like once they really what they're for is to
make money for the people who invested before the IPO,
right you know what I mean? Those are the people
who are really benefiting. And so I think it's like
an amazing moment and it's opening up obviously this whole
new industry, and there's going to be so many other
industries that are benefiting from this moment.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
But I'm it's going to be automatically in some people's
portfolios to I.
Speaker 5 (26:35):
Know that it's being added to the indexes. You know,
it's it's complicated too, I think because it's like, the
one product that I think really works as part of
that IPO is Starlink, and I'm like, everything else is
sort of like is it working.
Speaker 4 (26:50):
That's like the one that's the only thing that's really working.
Speaker 5 (26:52):
Yeah, and like Starlink rocks like love it like more.
Starting Starling was going public, I might be like, if
that's a plan, I'm a happy girl, But like the
rest of it is just so not proven, so, you know,
I think what's really good though, is that you know,
even if that is part of your index fund, the
great thing about index funds is that they're diversified. So
(27:13):
even if space.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
Is there could be winwhere exactly.
Speaker 5 (27:16):
So it's like you're still probably you're gonna see that
eight to ten percent anyways return despite the fact that
it's in an index. I wouldn't say that should be
something that deters you from buying an index fund. And actually,
if you want to get exposure to SpaceX, I would
rather you buy an index fund that it's in, right
versus buying it individually, because then you're going to have
that security blanket of knowing, Okay, even if it goes down,
(27:38):
I'm gonna have all these other socks to prop me up, right.
Speaker 4 (27:40):
Oh definitely, Yeah, So.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
Yeah I did. I did twenty nineteen.
Speaker 5 (27:47):
Angela was one of the she's winning from it.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
What about a company likes a SpaceX owned by Elon
Musk when you own the founder owner of the company
actually has enough money to make the company profitable.
Speaker 5 (28:03):
So you mean like that he's just so rich.
Speaker 4 (28:06):
He's so rich, it's like he can ensure his own results.
Speaker 5 (28:08):
Yeah, I think they're you know, it's so interesting because
it's like the system really is set up for rich
people to win. Yeah, all of the tax.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
Cars, all of the time, no taxes for all of
these Yeah.
Speaker 5 (28:22):
It's so and he's taken it to a new level. Yeah,
you know, but it's like we really need checks and
balances on wealth. I believe in capitalism, and like I
believe in like everyone's ability a free market and like
you can make your own money. Like I don't definitely
don't want to live in a world where that's not happening.
But I also think that like there shouldn't be a
trillionaire that's insane. You know, it just gives someone say
(28:44):
too much power. Money is power. If you're gonna have
the most money in the world, then you have the
most powerful.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
What do you think about morally what you invest into
because sometimes yeah, you may not like every president. Yeah,
but what are your thoughts about that?
Speaker 1 (28:58):
Because it could be something that's I.
Speaker 5 (29:00):
Could always say that my sister is very like liberal
and but as me, like is buying a house and
she heard her wife are buying a house and uh
like from the profits of investing in like index funds.
And I was and they were like you on their
high horse about this or that, and I was like,
just so you know, like some of the money that
you're using, like did come from like nefarious places, Like
(29:22):
I'm like, that's a house a private person.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
Yeah, So it's something to think about it think about.
Speaker 5 (29:29):
I think that there needs to be better uh returns
and lower fees on uh indexes that are like have
higher integrity, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
Like I don't think they can put like a wen text.
Speaker 5 (29:45):
Yeah, it's going to be democratized to uh put our
money into not those places, you know what I mean?
Because right now it's like Okay, yeah, I'm gonna be
a good person. But then I'm like, you're gonna charge
me this huge fee for doing you know. Yeah, but yeah,
I think about that a lot, and I think, you know,
(30:05):
money is That's why you know, I like to support
female run businesses and small businesses, and like you don't
go to big box stores, so you have to vote
with your wallet wherever you can, and even if it's
not in such a big way of like, Okay, I'm
not going to buy like this stock, like as little
as like you know, choosing, yeah, to go to that
bookstore on your corner, or like that local pharmacy versus CBOs,
(30:27):
Like those little things help keep small businesses alive and
it's so important.
Speaker 3 (30:33):
We are so happy since you were here, and what
you promise you'll come back.
Speaker 5 (30:38):
Literally whenever you want. I'm like so honored to be here.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
Have you not been winning?
Speaker 2 (30:42):
You on here for so I know, glad, but this
is a perfect timing. I do want to say, like
it's always helpful to me, not only to just follow you,
and I love all your pop culture references to miss
Beyonce of money.
Speaker 3 (30:54):
I know we have to Okay, you have to come
back so we can unpack that alone beyonceisode and.
Speaker 4 (31:01):
We'll call her and ask her to come.
Speaker 5 (31:03):
Oh yeah, her posting up, she's done it like four times.
What yes, so.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
I have so we do full half hour beyond this
public information when someone.
Speaker 5 (31:12):
I dig girl, you know, I've got my sources. That's
what I always say, allegedly, because I'm like, don't send the lawyers.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
Why why do I posting up four times?
Speaker 3 (31:20):
Well?
Speaker 5 (31:20):
I mean one was after lemonade. Okay, you know if
that man wants you to say he's going to play
like that, you know got it in writing.
Speaker 4 (31:28):
Okay, next episode that you are coming back.
Speaker 5 (31:31):
I'm coming. I love this, Yes, I got it all.
My brain is filled with things that you don't need
to know, but I'll tell you guys.
Speaker 4 (31:37):
Anyways, Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
Listen in the book Rihanna, you discuss her issues with finances,
but she got it back on track because I do
think that sometimes we're going to have these falls. But
the thing is to learn about from that and get
things on track the way it needs to be.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
It's a lesson.
Speaker 5 (31:53):
I always say, you don't cry about spilled milk if
you didn't lose the cow and you are the cow.
I mean, no one wants to be identify. I don't
want to be. You are the cowgirl. You are a
skinny beautiful like you can say cowgirl, cowgirlw girld. But
you know what I mean, like it's you.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
And the cow You're a cowgirl. You are the SpaceX.
Speaker 4 (32:15):
You're the space cowgirl.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
Don't do that again. Don't do that again. I love you.
I never stopping anything.
Speaker 4 (32:26):
Just don't move anymore. I'm gonna say something serious this comedian.
Speaker 3 (32:33):
The best part about Haley and Lots of Things is
her book is called Future Rich Person. It's not Here's
how you get rich or or anything about finances. She
knows that money. It's about identity.
Speaker 4 (32:45):
And we love her.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
Obviously I have to separate she and Angela, but she'll
be back.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
And you know the last name sax It makes you
feel like you gotta go to Saxony money. Yeah, olds,
don't make my not related to either.
Speaker 5 (33:02):
I will be giving you both gift cards.
Speaker 4 (33:03):
Don't make my cohouse move again.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
You're coming back and come back everybody.
Speaker 4 (33:13):
It's a wacky wealth Wednesdays. We'll talk to you soon.
What's up his way up at Angela.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Ye, it's me and Stacy tisday on a Wealth Wednesday.
I'm so excited for this one.
Speaker 3 (00:10):
We both are happy Wealth Wednesdays everybody, and we have
Missus dow Jones.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Well, hold on, we got to say New York Times bestselling.
Speaker 4 (00:18):
Author Missus dow Jones for you.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Some of you might know her as Hailey Sachs, who's
a founder of Finances School, which is a financial education
company focused on making wealth building accessible. But there's so
much more to this woman. Her book Future Rich Person,
It's hit the New York Times Bestseller look list recently,
and you got We've been sitting here chatting it up
(00:42):
before this even got started, so we figured we had
to turn the microphones on.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
I'm so excited because I've been following you for so
long and I get a lot of great information. I mean,
even with the Knicks, you know, and you're talking about
Jalen Brnson and why he did the deal he did,
and we're gonna talk about all of those things.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
But welcome to the show. It's so good to have
you here.
Speaker 5 (01:00):
I'm so excited to be here. I'm such a fan
and a fan of the show, but also of both
of you just as like business women. And I feel
like I Angela like know way too much about your
financial life and I'm fully invested in all of the
moves and you like keep us all on our toes.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
We both went to Wesley into but I know that
car Wesley made the list of one of the most
expensive schools right now over one hundred thousand dollars a year.
Speaker 4 (01:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
It don't even sound real.
Speaker 5 (01:28):
No, it really doesn't. But you know, I got a
lot out of it, but I don't know if I
got one hundred brand out of it. Yeah, yeah, which
is a lot.
Speaker 4 (01:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
And you went a really different route. Oh, I mean
you grew up with the family with your dad actually
worked on Wall Street. Yeah, but it was so interesting
in your story. That didn't mean that you knew a
lot about money because just like everybody's family, they didn't
talk about it much.
Speaker 5 (01:50):
And you know, it's so funny, sacy is. The research
shows like with generational wealth, ninety percent of it is
gone by the second generation and seventy and it's gone
by the third generation.
Speaker 4 (02:01):
WI.
Speaker 5 (02:02):
Yeah, because you can inherit money, but you don't inherent
financial literacy. But I actually think that's really powerful because
if you're someone who feels like money's not for you,
like you're you know, there's so many people who got
in their own way. They've all these limiting beliefs around finances.
They just think like they're missing a chip. Maybe they're
born with like some different understanding than me. The truth is,
we're all born at zero. It doesn't matter where you're born,
(02:24):
what situation you're born in. Two you come out of
your mom and you don't have any sort of idea
what's going on with like your money, Yeah, you gotta
learn it.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
What's your earliest memps because even when you're not learning,
you're learning, Yeah, because you're absorbing what they're doing. What's
your earliest money memory with them?
Speaker 5 (02:41):
My earliest money memory is so like I was like
a little girl who loved snacks, Like I was really
chubby when I was little. I was like mostly focused
on finding pringles, and so I just wanted to get
pringles and I but they I had no choice, Like
there's no infrastructure in the household to teach me about
(03:01):
money or like create a system with which I could
accumulate any money. And so if I wanted like a
snack at school where it was like a dollar, two dollars.
It's like I didn't really know how to get that,
so I would have to sneak the money. Like there
was like a little uh container, ye have money in it?
Speaker 4 (03:22):
Yes, okay, I went three girls.
Speaker 5 (03:24):
Oh we're so bad, we sold from our moms.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Yeah, I want to take it out.
Speaker 5 (03:28):
I take it all, of course, and maybe you find
a five if you were lucky. But mostly it was
like putting together four corners or a dollar.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
Notice, yeah, they never noticed.
Speaker 4 (03:36):
That is wild.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
It's the three of us. I bet it's so many
people out there, you know, everybody.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Just do that on purpose, like let's leave this money
here and act like you know, it's like a little
petty cash.
Speaker 5 (03:47):
Yeah, pringle cash. I mean, what did you use yours for?
Speaker 2 (03:52):
So there was this Hamburger diner that was on the corner,
and so whenever I felt like I wanted to go eat,
I'd go in a little stad, take a few dollars
and go like get you know, kind of notice, there's
no way they don't know the unless you know, she
might it that my dad took it.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
Or ad vice versa.
Speaker 5 (04:09):
That would have been worse if like someone else got framed,
but that never happened.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
Yeah, no, they No one ever said anything to me
about it, your mom.
Speaker 5 (04:15):
Yeah, sorry mom. That was my earliest money memory of
like I think of like not being able to count
on myself and then having to go these like convoluted
ways to get what I wanted. And I think that's
really like the same for what presented later in my
life too, before I sort of healed my relationship with money,
where it's like I didn't feel like I could count
on myself. I did think, Okay, maybe I'm gonna have
to like marry someone or my dad's going to take
(04:36):
care of this, and like was really all about outsourcing
all my financial power because I didn't have self belief
that I could do this.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Yeah, I agree with that.
Speaker 4 (04:45):
You know.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
My earliest memory my brother and I used to there
was a piano in the living room and like there
was like stuff underneath it, and we would take this
stuff and sell it to my grandparents even though it
was theirs, but.
Speaker 4 (04:58):
Parents their own stuff.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Yeah, and the I would like pretend to buy it
from us and like give us a little money. Like
we'd be like, here, we have this for sale, and
they would really give us, like, you know, a quarter,
and we thought we were like selling them things.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
I don't know what, but it was cute. I guess
it's cute. We were salespeople.
Speaker 5 (05:14):
I know, you're like you're practicing your sales.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Then you do go by Missus dow Jones. And Stacey
was one of the first women and the first black
person to report from the floor of the New York
Stock Exchange.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
So what does Missus dow Jones mean to you today?
Speaker 5 (05:28):
Well, you know, going back to what I just said
about that feeling of like okay, I'm gonna have to
like look out like okay for women, let's take even
a more stepback, Like we couldn't get our own credit
cards till nineteen seventy four, we couldn't get our own
business loans till the eighties. Like I really look at
us as you know, basically like the first generations of
women who really have the opportunity to choose and like
to use money to like create the lives that we want.
(05:50):
And so Missus dow Jones to me like fun, flirty,
cool name, but also means like, Okay, I'm married to
my own financial freedom. I don't have to do anything
I don't want to do girls, and either do you Like.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
You don't have to work with people you don't want
to work with.
Speaker 5 (06:04):
I can't say marry anyone that I don't want to marry.
I don't have to ask for permission. Like whatever I
want to do, I can do. And that's what I think,
missus dow Jones.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
Is all about a lot of women don't think about that.
If you are financially free, like you said, I do
to financial freedom, you can totally conduct yourself differently in
a relationship.
Speaker 4 (06:22):
Yep.
Speaker 5 (06:22):
You can decide who you want to love and all
that you need from them is love. You know, there's
no strings attached.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
I always quote my friend who said, I wish I
had money so I could date who I like. I
love that, and that's literally she's like that, always says
that because she's you know, I think it's hard to
be in like this survival mode when you're trying to
make stratesic decisions on who you want.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
To go out with. I mean, that really sucks.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
But like you said, we also have to understand the
history of where we are, and those.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
Numbers are changing pretty rapidly.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
When you think about women being the one that is
the one that's really like the primary breadwinner in the household.
What is that like today?
Speaker 5 (06:59):
Well, I love you know, I always use pop culture
to sort of like paint pictures some obsessed.
Speaker 4 (07:03):
With I sure do, and some of it.
Speaker 5 (07:06):
We're in this really cool time though, Angela, where you know,
we're seeing this summer of pop star weddings and we
just had Douleipa's wedding. She's worth one hundred and twenty
million dollars. Column Turner's worth five million dollars. We like
prenup and we like, yeah prenup at but like she
knows she can choose her shoe outs. But same with Taylor.
Taylor's worth so much more than Travis. And so I
(07:26):
think it's just like really awesome to see in the
culture that it's like we have these rich, powerful women
who are just making decisions however they want, Yeah, bearing
who they want.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
That's so awesome because I think about the impact that's
gonna have on these girls. And one thing you do
talk about Generation Z, they also have this kind of
dichotomy going on about feeling financially helpless.
Speaker 5 (07:50):
Yeah, I call it. In the book Learned Financial helplessness,
and it's basically like financial nihilism, And it's this idea.
I mean, look Stacey, like you know, you you guys
know so much about like the economy and what's going on.
Like since two thousand, weges have increased seven percent, the
cost of living has increased sixty seven percent. If you're
(08:11):
in gen Z, you know you have huge student debt.
You you feel like you're never gonna be able to
buy a house. AI is taking all the jobs. Like
you feel like the world is closing in on you
and there's no opportunity, and so as a reaction, you
decide to look rich instead of be rich. Maybe you're
going to, you know, use buy now, pay later to
(08:32):
fund your coach tele tickets. You're going to just like
spend money that you don't have to live a life
that you haven't earned because you feel like that life
is so out of reach anyways, and the world is
burning and we're on a floating rock and so who cares?
And I think it's really important if you have that
mindset to take a step back and know that there
is actually still so much opportunity to grow wealth. It
(08:55):
just might be a different path and a different American
dream than your parents told you about.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Right, I mean you have this Abiza Abiza Abitha. Yes,
So break down Abitha and what that means for people
as far as like identify, blame, tell us about that,
just because I think that's a great method for people
to understand their financial situation.
Speaker 5 (09:17):
Yeah. So first of all, Angel, Like, I've worked with
tons of thousands of people, and I will say, like,
you could give anyone financial advice, like, but they're never
going to take it if they don't first work on
their identity and they first don't like heal their money mindset. Yeah,
because my belief is where all your action comes from. Yeah,
(09:38):
And so the first part of the book it's all
about breaking that down. And so I have this proprietary
five step method Abiza. So the first step is to identify, So, like,
what are the things that are holding you back financially?
Is it, oh I'm bad with money?
Speaker 4 (09:52):
Is it?
Speaker 5 (09:53):
You know, like this is not for me whatever, whatever,
those beliefs don't understand it and understand it. It's the
world is a right, so screwed. I shouldn't even try.
Whatever it is, it's you know, you have to identify
what it is it's holding you back. And also you know,
it could be societal forces to think about, Oh, I
saw Carrie Bradshaw always buying shoes and being fabulous and
(10:16):
broke being broken a period of time for a period
of time because she married.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Buy you this apartment.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
You went right next to it, well not down the wallace.
Speaker 4 (10:29):
But that's B.
Speaker 5 (10:30):
It's so the next letter is B, so blame. So
that's also you can blame, like because these factors are
not just from inside of you, like they're you didn't
just fall out of a coconut tree. You know, it's
like they're coming from their places.
Speaker 4 (10:41):
And then the.
Speaker 5 (10:42):
IV the third I is ignore, you know, and so
you have to actually, uh take a step back and
choose something different. And then Z is so you're going
to replace that belief with something else. You know, maybe
it's like I can do this, but I was never taught,
(11:02):
or you know, like there's still so much opportunity for me,
or you know, like I have to learn to negotiate
that I can make more money, like whatever it is
that you need to tell yourself to just look in
the miror and say you're a bad hous pitch, like
whatever it is, you have to do to empower yourself.
Speaker 4 (11:19):
Do it.
Speaker 5 (11:20):
And then the last letter A is act, which is
the rest of the book, which are those really practical steps.
But first you have to really work on your identity.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
You know, just to go along with that too.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
When we talk about how our mindset is, it's interesting
because your father worked at gold min sex right, and
he still does and okay, years girl, and you were
not good with money at all in the beginning. You
didn't even understand like certain terminology. And I know a
lot of times we can be in spaces where we
feel like things are over our head, where we feel
(11:50):
a little helpless, but we feel kind of dumb when
other people are talking about it and it's intimidating. So
what we're the and for people who are listening, because
I know a lot of us can relate to that,
because I know for me, I'm in situations where, thank God,
like I've educated myself more, but I still am. I
don't consider myself like a financial expert in any way,
but there are certain things that I feel more comfortable with,
(12:12):
but it took a long time to get there.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
So for you, what was that process like? Because there
are people listening.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
Now like, well I don't know how to invest or,
I'm just trying to save up some money, or I'm
worried about retirement.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
I'll never be able to buy a house.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
Yeah, and for context, this woman started out her career
as a comedian and it works, by.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
The way, Yeah, you talk about money, I love it.
Speaker 4 (12:32):
Well.
Speaker 5 (12:33):
You know any you can make anything funny, and that's
like what makes both full toenshion. But I will say,
like when I think about anyone's financial journey, like my mind,
or like you think about yours, Angela, like what really
stands out to me is the audacity. Like it's like,
who gave us permission to do any of this? And
it's like, no, you give yourself permission. And so it's
(12:54):
like for me, I was so help back by all
these factors coming at me. I would say societal nothing
from my family, and I really counted myself out from
like this whole world. But then when I had that
first job with Lord Michael's now baby, and they were
like do one A four one K, here's a paycheck.
I don't know how to read a paycheck. What kind
(13:16):
of health insurance flavor would you enjoy? I was like
I don't know what any of these mean. And so
I had that aha money moment where I had to
really look in the mirror and decide, like who do
I want to be? You know, this was cute for
a while. It was never cute, but you know what
I mean. I was sort of getting it away with
it until then, and then in that moment, it was like, Okay,
I either have to shit or get off the pot.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
Right.
Speaker 5 (13:36):
It's like we gotta put our money where our mouth is.
And so then I tried to learn about money and
what I found was all the information for women was
so based in deprivation. Oh definitely, yeah, And I was like,
this is so unaspirational. I don't want to do any
of this. It was literally like, re wash your paper towels,
never get your nails done.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
God for big stop, don't get a Starbucks.
Speaker 4 (14:00):
Your whole financial life that's gonna change. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (14:02):
So yeah, exactly, like no avocado toast. And it's like,
you know, it's that's we actually focus so much on
cutting back, but there is a floored how much you
can cut, but there's no stealing to how much you
can earn. Like this is why women need to be
you know, increasing their skills, learning to negotiate, like trying
to figure out how to make more money, because there's
a lot of money out there for us to have.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
I always say that one of the keys is sometimes
you just have to make more money.
Speaker 5 (14:27):
That's, yeah, my favorite thing. But in this can not
work a bad Die diet or budget. But like to
a certain expt, a lot most of us aren't making
and most of us are underpaid.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
And you know you've said this in the books that
you cannot save your way to rich. No, a lot
of people are like to save, save, save, and that's
not gonna make you rich.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
No.
Speaker 5 (14:43):
You know that, like you have to invest. You have
to make your money work for you. A savings account,
maybe you're gonna earn point zero four percent interest high
field savings account, you're gonna get maybe four percent interests.
But if you put your money in the market, it's
compounding and you're gonna get eight to ten interest. That
changes your whole financial life. You put that together with
(15:04):
earning more and then actually not spending all that money,
which we should talk about because it's so hard in
this day and age not to just like use Apple
pay like Apple be paying.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, right, is it coming from.
Speaker 5 (15:16):
If you don't know, it's like you've got nothing to
put in the market. So it's important to also make
sure that you have enough money to put towards it.
But you know, that's really the secret sauce.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
I was speaking to thousands of women last week and
I was really, there's just called there's no margin. Reality.
You have forty nine percent of Americans living paycheck to paycheck.
That's up twenty nine percent in twelve months. So that's
in the year. So when I talk to them about,
(15:44):
you know, just starting to invest in the market and stuff,
there's really and there's no margin. There's nothing left over
after paycheck. And this is I think so so many
people's reality now in this economy and this affordability issue.
Speaker 4 (15:56):
What do you tell a person.
Speaker 5 (15:58):
Like that, First of all, I mean, you can't ignore that, right,
Like it's like that's that's really what is happening, and
like that's it's really hard. And I think a lot
of it does come down to identity though, where it's
like even if you can make the shift to like
putting like five dollars away, that will start to change
(16:18):
your mindset into being someone who is it more in
control of their finances and who then maybe is going
to take control in other ways? Do you know what
I mean? But I think it goes back to again
trying to earn more, like so many people get lost
in like the sunk cost fallacy of their jobs, like, oh,
I've been here for a long time. Yeah, they can't
give me a raise now, but like in a few
years they don't. You don't own the company, you don't
(16:41):
owe them anything. And it's like even with the AI stuff,
it's like getting so scared about AI. The people who
are going to benefit from AI are the ones who
know how to use it, right, So trying to understand
what do you who do you have to become to
be a future rich person? I'm not I didn't beco.
I didn't wake up missus dow Jones like I'm thirty four,
but for ten years, Like it's like this is every
(17:03):
day building towards this. Same with both of you guys.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Yeah, like you know, and so definitely that's not Yeah,
you might be.
Speaker 5 (17:09):
So overwhelmed where you are at now, and that's okay,
and that's fair because shit.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
Is they're taking a lot of the reasons they're there
they're taking care of their children, they're taking care of
aging parents, they're taking you know, everybody's going to have
financial disruptions now because you've got to take care of
your kids and your parents are going to live to
be one hundred and somebody's going to get sick and
you're going to have to stop working.
Speaker 5 (17:28):
That's for women.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
This is like, it's mostly women. Yeah, and this is
people's reality now. So when I'm talking to them about
putting a little bit away for investing, and one of
the things that really resonated is, I don't know, you know,
when you're in that state of financial stress like I
just described, your IQ actually goes down by thirteen points.
Speaker 4 (17:47):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
So it's like you're trying to function in the world
without a night's sleep. And when you do when you
read Haley's book, when you listen to Angela, when you
do just one thing different to alleviate that, you behave
your changes so you see more options. That's such a
financial system measures behavior. So, Okay, I'm going to pay
more of my bills on time up since the thirty
(18:10):
five percent on your credit score. Okay, I'm not going
to spend I just have the bandwidth now because I
see exactly.
Speaker 4 (18:16):
What you're saying.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
I see a horizon and that actually translated into forty
four point jump in your credit score. Just knowing how
to get yourself out of financial stress.
Speaker 5 (18:24):
That's so amazing. I was thinking too. In the book,
I talk about how if you have like four broke friends,
you're about to become the fifth.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
Yeah, the fifth, Yeah you're.
Speaker 5 (18:31):
The fifth, and you know you yeah, facts, but it's
like you know, you're you might be in these in
a situation where it's like there's no one around you
that you really see building or inspires you, but we're
I think what's really cool about social media and content
is that you can curate it so that you have
like four best friends. They might not be your best
friend back. It might be that you're like, yeah, listening
missus dow Joels, you're listening to money or wealth Wednesday.
(18:54):
It's like it's like whatever it is. But I find
like waterboarding myself with content that changes my mindset does
the trick.
Speaker 4 (19:01):
It really does.
Speaker 5 (19:02):
That's yeah, it teaches you, it, like you know, inspires you.
It's that voice comes, that voice in your head that
allows you to believe that there might be another way,
because when you hear all this data and you look
maybe around at your life where you're at now, it's
hard to believe that there might be a better future.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
Yeah, and I love your concept of action money.
Speaker 5 (19:23):
Oh. Action money is everything. Yeah, So I mean and
even with what you were just saying, like even finding
that five dollars of action money is so important.
Speaker 4 (19:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (19:31):
So action money is basically the money left over after
you deduct your expenses from your income. And obviously wherever
you're at, like you might start and have negative action
money because you're in debt because the expense like everything,
you're spending too much, or it might be that you
have five dollars of action money or whatever it is.
But what I've noticed is that a lot of people
before you take your you have your aha money moment
(19:53):
and you take this future rich person journey, you sort
of are managing your money based on vibes and you're
not really like in control all of them. And so
you might see that like five, ten, whatever one hundred
dollars left over then left over at the under.
Speaker 4 (20:05):
The much you didn't see it before, I didn't.
Speaker 5 (20:07):
See it, but you're like, great, Oh, I can use
that to like we're gonna go to dinner or we're
gonna do this or whatever. But that's actually your most
powerful wealth building tool. And there was a study from
Goldman Socks that people who make three hundred to four
hundred thousand dollars are more likely to be living paycheck
to paycheck than people who make under one hundred k.
(20:27):
And so you know, it doesn't even matter really how
much you're making. You can spend all your money. The
equation is the same forever and you meet the.
Speaker 4 (20:35):
Actually internal doesn't matter rich for it.
Speaker 5 (20:37):
It doesn't matter how much you're money if you're spending it.
If you don't have that auction money, you will never
become a future rich person.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
And you know, one thing I also learned was even
when I didn't have any extra money and I was
living paycheck to paycheck, I still did start investing in
a rough IRA At that time. It wasn't much, but
it was also like something I didn't really notice coming
out of my check like that every single month. And
so sometimes I think people feel like you have to
have everything paid off to invest, but you actually can invest,
(21:04):
you know, at the same time as you're paying things off,
and it is a really powerful feeling. But I wanted
to ask you about Initially you're in school, your parents
are like, you're charging things on the car. Oh yeah,
that was horrible, and that was a real crutch for you, right,
having your parents paid for everything.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
What would you say to.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Parents now that are like, I want my kids to
have everything that I didn't have when I was growing up,
and I'm taking care of all their you know, credit
card bills and they're doing this and living the life.
What advice would you give to those parents, because you actually,
you know, when you were younger, you were able to
have that crutch, and a lot of people want to
(21:43):
give that to their kids too.
Speaker 5 (21:45):
Yeah, And I think that I would be you know,
I don't complain. It's not we would ever complain about
It's like, you know, I say that in the book too.
But you know, you have to couple that safety with
financial literacy. And I think there's there's a great and
buffet quote that I always go back to, which is
give your kids enough that they can do anything, but
(22:05):
not enough that they don't have to do anything, you know. Yeah,
And so I think that when I think about having kids,
I definitely want to give them generational wealth, mostly because
it's so easy, easy being like like simple, not easy,
of course, to make enough money that you can both
invest for yourself and then have money that you can
(22:26):
put towards your kids. But it's like not complicated. You
can even especially when you start at a really young age,
it can compound and grow so exponentially. But I think
that you have to just make them earn it. Like
I really like the idea of taxing kids allowances, Like
if you give them, you know, ten dollars, take away
thirty percent, so it's actually seven dollars, so they understand that,
(22:48):
you know, and then maybe you're like giving it to
a charity that the family really supports, or like to
your church or whatever that is. I also think that
having chores is amazing, you know, just having a system
with which your child could understand that, like through effort
comes money, Like if you put stuff out there, then
maybe you're gonna get stuff back. That's important, you.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
Know, And it's interesting my son, Yeah, how do you
deal with your son? He's been around his neuroscience behavioral
finance mother his whole life, which I see picking up.
So I would watch television with him, say, and we'd
see a commercial and I'd be like, can you believe
that company is trying to take get me, to take
(23:30):
money away from my goals to give to them. That's
such a good And then I noticed that I've noticed
he'd be watching ads.
Speaker 4 (23:37):
He'd be like, they're trying to trick me.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
And I'm like, let's buy that company instead.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
So communication and how you communicate, but what neuroscience and
research will show you one hundred thousand percent, you can
tell your kids anything you want.
Speaker 4 (23:52):
They're gonna do what you do.
Speaker 5 (23:54):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
So it's like, and that's the best thing about kids,
because who do I have to be to be the
role model my child needs me to be? And that's
my north star. I love that, And then you know.
Speaker 4 (24:06):
They see it.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
One thing I definitely wanted you guys were that was
great to talk about kids. But before that, we were
talking about talking about investing in people starting to invest. Yeah, okay,
you got me, Angela Haley Stacy, Okay.
Speaker 4 (24:19):
I'm gonna find my five dollars. But there's a war, there's.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
All these things, economic uncertainty, there's go global conflict, the
planet's getting hot. That doesn't make people comfortable about going
into the markets when you say to those people.
Speaker 5 (24:33):
I will say that there's always going to be a
reason not too. But you can't let fear be your
financial advisor. And the best time to start was yesterday,
but the second best time to start is today. And like,
if you look at all of the data, like you're
clearly someone who like loves some data. I do too.
All the data shows that if you keep your money
in for like twenty years, so that's people I've under it,
(24:53):
you're making money. It's like ninety nine percent of the
time you're making money. I'm like, those are good odds.
And you know that's the same people who say that
that are the ones who are gonna bet on the
next tonight, right, They're gonna, you know, get into the
prediction markets, like they are looking to get rich quick
versus doing the thing that's actually slow and steady and
will win the race.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
You know, as you are looking at all these numbers,
I gotta ask you, with everything happening with SpaceX.
Speaker 5 (25:17):
Oh, we got to talk about what are your.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
Thoughts because it's been yeah, it's been everything's changing now.
I mean they're literally like changing the rules for SpaceX
to go public. So for people who have been reading
about this because I know every single day and I
don't know if it's my algorithm. All I see is
like articles about SpaceX and some people listening don't do
what some people saying. What are your thoughts just in
(25:40):
general about the impact that this IPO is having on
the market.
Speaker 5 (25:46):
I do not believe in investing in IPOs as a
retail investor, and I mean that comes from two trains
of thought. One is that I really believe in low
cost index funds, and I don't believe that you need
to be an expert and be picking individual stocks to
grow wealth. You just don't have to. But I also
think that when you look at the data of IPOs,
(26:09):
like you're it's really tough to make money on them,
just like once they really what they're for is to
make money for the people who invested before the IPO,
right you know what I mean? Those are the people
who are really benefiting. And so I think it's like
an amazing moment and it's opening up obviously this whole
new industry, and there's going to be so many other
industries that are benefiting from this moment.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
But I'm it's going to be automatically in some people's
portfolios to I.
Speaker 5 (26:35):
Know that it's being added to the indexes. You know,
it's it's complicated too, I think because it's like, the
one product that I think really works as part of
that IPO is Starlink, and I'm like, everything else is
sort of like is it working.
Speaker 4 (26:50):
That's like the one that's the only thing that's really working.
Speaker 5 (26:52):
Yeah, and like Starlink rocks like love it like more.
Starting Starling was going public, I might be like, if
that's a plan, I'm a happy girl, But like the
rest of it is just so not proven, so, you know,
I think what's really good though, is that you know,
even if that is part of your index fund, the
great thing about index funds is that they're diversified. So
(27:13):
even if space.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
Is there could be winwhere exactly.
Speaker 5 (27:16):
So it's like you're still probably you're gonna see that
eight to ten percent anyways return despite the fact that
it's in an index. I wouldn't say that should be
something that deters you from buying an index fund. And actually,
if you want to get exposure to SpaceX, I would
rather you buy an index fund that it's in, right
versus buying it individually, because then you're going to have
that security blanket of knowing, Okay, even if it goes down,
(27:38):
I'm gonna have all these other socks to prop me up, right.
Speaker 4 (27:40):
Oh definitely, Yeah, So.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
Yeah I did. I did twenty nineteen.
Speaker 5 (27:47):
Angela was one of the she's winning from it.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
What about a company likes a SpaceX owned by Elon
Musk when you own the founder owner of the company
actually has enough money to make the company profitable.
Speaker 5 (28:03):
So you mean like that he's just so rich.
Speaker 4 (28:06):
He's so rich, it's like he can ensure his own results.
Speaker 5 (28:08):
Yeah, I think they're you know, it's so interesting because
it's like the system really is set up for rich
people to win. Yeah, all of the tax.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
Cars, all of the time, no taxes for all of
these Yeah.
Speaker 5 (28:22):
It's so and he's taken it to a new level. Yeah,
you know, but it's like we really need checks and
balances on wealth. I believe in capitalism, and like I
believe in like everyone's ability a free market and like
you can make your own money. Like I don't definitely
don't want to live in a world where that's not happening.
But I also think that like there shouldn't be a
trillionaire that's insane. You know, it just gives someone say
(28:44):
too much power. Money is power. If you're gonna have
the most money in the world, then you have the
most powerful.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
What do you think about morally what you invest into
because sometimes yeah, you may not like every president. Yeah,
but what are your thoughts about that?
Speaker 1 (28:58):
Because it could be something that's I.
Speaker 5 (29:00):
Could always say that my sister is very like liberal
and but as me, like is buying a house and
she heard her wife are buying a house and uh
like from the profits of investing in like index funds.
And I was and they were like you on their
high horse about this or that, and I was like,
just so you know, like some of the money that
you're using, like did come from like nefarious places, Like
(29:22):
I'm like, that's a house a private person.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
Yeah, So it's something to think about it think about.
Speaker 5 (29:29):
I think that there needs to be better uh returns
and lower fees on uh indexes that are like have
higher integrity, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
Like I don't think they can put like a wen text.
Speaker 5 (29:45):
Yeah, it's going to be democratized to uh put our
money into not those places, you know what I mean?
Because right now it's like Okay, yeah, I'm gonna be
a good person. But then I'm like, you're gonna charge
me this huge fee for doing you know. Yeah, but yeah,
I think about that a lot, and I think, you know,
(30:05):
money is That's why you know, I like to support
female run businesses and small businesses, and like you don't
go to big box stores, so you have to vote
with your wallet wherever you can, and even if it's
not in such a big way of like, Okay, I'm
not going to buy like this stock, like as little
as like you know, choosing, yeah, to go to that
bookstore on your corner, or like that local pharmacy versus CBOs,
(30:27):
Like those little things help keep small businesses alive and
it's so important.
Speaker 3 (30:33):
We are so happy since you were here, and what
you promise you'll come back.
Speaker 5 (30:38):
Literally whenever you want. I'm like so honored to be here.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
Have you not been winning?
Speaker 2 (30:42):
You on here for so I know, glad, but this
is a perfect timing. I do want to say, like
it's always helpful to me, not only to just follow you,
and I love all your pop culture references to miss
Beyonce of money.
Speaker 3 (30:54):
I know we have to Okay, you have to come
back so we can unpack that alone beyonceisode and.
Speaker 4 (31:01):
We'll call her and ask her to come.
Speaker 5 (31:03):
Oh yeah, her posting up, she's done it like four times.
What yes, so.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
I have so we do full half hour beyond this
public information when someone.
Speaker 5 (31:12):
I dig girl, you know, I've got my sources. That's
what I always say, allegedly, because I'm like, don't send the lawyers.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
Why why do I posting up four times?
Speaker 3 (31:20):
Well?
Speaker 5 (31:20):
I mean one was after lemonade. Okay, you know if
that man wants you to say he's going to play
like that, you know got it in writing.
Speaker 4 (31:28):
Okay, next episode that you are coming back.
Speaker 5 (31:31):
I'm coming. I love this, Yes, I got it all.
My brain is filled with things that you don't need
to know, but I'll tell you guys.
Speaker 4 (31:37):
Anyways, Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
Listen in the book Rihanna, you discuss her issues with finances,
but she got it back on track because I do
think that sometimes we're going to have these falls. But
the thing is to learn about from that and get
things on track the way it needs to be.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
It's a lesson.
Speaker 5 (31:53):
I always say, you don't cry about spilled milk if
you didn't lose the cow and you are the cow.
I mean, no one wants to be identify. I don't
want to be. You are the cowgirl. You are a
skinny beautiful like you can say cowgirl, cowgirlw girld. But
you know what I mean, like it's you.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
And the cow You're a cowgirl. You are the SpaceX.
Speaker 4 (32:15):
You're the space cowgirl.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
Don't do that again. Don't do that again. I love you.
I never stopping anything.
Speaker 4 (32:26):
Just don't move anymore. I'm gonna say something serious this comedian.
Speaker 3 (32:33):
The best part about Haley and Lots of Things is
her book is called Future Rich Person. It's not Here's
how you get rich or or anything about finances. She
knows that money. It's about identity.
Speaker 4 (32:45):
And we love her.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
Obviously I have to separate she and Angela, but she'll
be back.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
And you know the last name sax It makes you
feel like you gotta go to Saxony money. Yeah, olds,
don't make my not related to either.
Speaker 5 (33:02):
I will be giving you both gift cards.
Speaker 4 (33:03):
Don't make my cohouse move again.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
You're coming back and come back everybody.
Speaker 4 (33:13):
It's a wacky wealth Wednesdays. We'll talk to you soon.
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Betrayal Weekly
Betrayal Weekly is back for a new season. Every Thursday, Betrayal Weekly shares first-hand accounts of broken trust, shocking deceptions, and the trail of destruction they leave behind. Hosted by Andrea Gunning, this weekly ongoing series digs into real-life stories of betrayal and the aftermath. From stories of double lives to dark discoveries, these are cautionary tales and accounts of resilience against all odds. From the producers of the critically acclaimed Betrayal series, Betrayal Weekly drops new episodes every Thursday. If you would like to share your story, you can reach out to the Betrayal Team by emailing them at betrayalpod@gmail.com and follow us on Instagram at @betrayalpod and @glasspodcasts. Please join our Substack for additional exclusive content, curated book recommendations, and community discussions. Sign up FREE by clicking this link Beyond Betrayal Substack. Join our community dedicated to truth, resilience, and healing. Your voice matters! Be a part of our Betrayal journey on Substack.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com