The Ins and Outs of Protesting Effectively

This week, Theo speaks with legendary activist and writer Dr. Gloria Browne-Marshall, author of the new book A Protest History of the United States. Dr. Browne-Marshall discusses the most effective ways to protest in the modern age, and what we can learn from the long tradition of sit-ins, street protests, and boycotts that have empowered people for centuries. Also, Theo returns to JTown Action and Solidarity in Los Angeles to speak with organizers Carlos and Zen the day that millions of Americans had SNAP benefits taken by the Trump regime.

Follow Gloria's work here: https://www.instagram.com/gbrownemarshall/?hl=en

Donate to JTown Action and Solidarity here: https://jtownaction.com/Donate

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
Previously on Winnion House.

Speaker 2 (00:05):
They didn't ask. They were just you know, kicking everybody out,
ripping tents, whatnot is to get everybody out. Now I
have nothing. All I had was just a clothing on
my on myself, no chance, no nothing.

Speaker 3 (00:20):
Yeah, every time it's something like this happens, we all
are nervous. If we know that these things kill people.
Every sweep is a potential murder. People lose their support,
we can't.

Speaker 1 (00:28):
Follow with people.

Speaker 3 (00:29):
They lose their ability to check off on each other.
And I think it's always really scary. You never know
how you're gonna find people again. So it makes their
work incredibly challenging. A lot of progress that we build
up we over weeks, over months, helping people heal wounds,
get back on medications, all that is kind of thrown
away when something like this happens.

Speaker 4 (00:46):
And for what.

Speaker 5 (00:59):
Welcome to Weedian House. I'm your host, Theo Henderson. We
have a jam packed episode this week from the current
situation which that benefits being revoked, to learning more about
the different types of protests and how to effectively protest.

(01:20):
But first Unhouse news this week, we're out in the
field in Little Tokyo, Los Angeles. On November one, twenty
twenty five, over forty two million Americans woke up without
access to SNAP benefits they relied on to sustain themselves

(01:41):
and survive. Be Housed and unhoused alike have been severely affected,
but the unhoused, as we discussed before, have an extra
layer of hardship when losing these benefits. Unhoused people starve
at a higher rate while living in the street because
of the social antipathy to them, and do not always
have the ability to cook and store food. This became

(02:05):
clear immediately when local food pantries and mutual aid efforts
were overwhelmed with a spike in their food lines at
the beginning of November as millions needed to find new
sources of reliable food. I witnessed this first time when
I went to the Jaytown Action and Solidarity power up
on November first and got a chance to speak with

(02:28):
organizers and returning guests zen Sekizawa and Maria Korea.

Speaker 4 (02:35):
Hey, how's it going.

Speaker 6 (02:36):
Uh, yeah, we are bracing ourselves for a SNAP getting
cut off. It seems like it's yeah, you're right, it's
it's led by Trump, but it's a it's a two
party ratchet effect because Trump will will take away services
and you see he's cutting things. And then what the

(02:57):
Democrats do is they come back and they're not five
forgetting everything back. They're just you know, they'll run on
stopping the bleeding. And that's always the choke hold the
voters in.

Speaker 4 (03:06):
It's like the lesser of too Evil talk all over again.

Speaker 5 (03:11):
And I think you read a wear a good point
because if you've seen during all of this regime, of
the Trump regime, that's been atrocious policies going on, and
there's been a dribs and drafts of Democratic politicians speaking
on it, but overall there seems to be such a capitulation,
not only with the Republicans, but also there's milk toast
kind of response from the Democrats as well.

Speaker 1 (03:33):
Do you see with this so far? What's going on now?

Speaker 5 (03:36):
Have you seen an influx or i uptick of people
at the power ups?

Speaker 3 (03:41):
Uh?

Speaker 4 (03:41):
Yeah, we do. I just noticed talking about it a
second ago.

Speaker 6 (03:44):
Like the last few weeks, we've been seeing a lot
more new people. That always signals to us that sweeps
are happening again because people are moving locations and then
they're finding out, you know, the resources that are nearest
to them.

Speaker 4 (03:59):
And we've been getting new people.

Speaker 6 (04:01):
We know people in the community and they spread the word,
you know, tell people where to come on Saturday for
some resources. So yeah, when we meet new people, it's
always you know, I'm new in the area. My friend
let me know this is where they come on Saturday.
So yeah, we are meeting a lot of new people
and not always signals to us an ever growing need.

(04:22):
As much as Karen Bass wants to talk about bringing
homelessness out, we're not seeing that.

Speaker 4 (04:28):
We're seeing the opposite. We are not seeing.

Speaker 6 (04:30):
People being put inside safe We are seeing sweeps continue.
We are seeing people's belongings getting destroyed. We are seeing
people getting forcibly removed from their community is trying to
come back and playing that like survival cat and mouse
game where they're acquiring things and then losing things and
acquiring things and losing things, and it's like it wears

(04:51):
on people's mental capacity, it wears on their physical endurance.
We are lucky to have all Power Clinic here today
to look at people's wounds and injuries. People are walking
around not getting the care they're needing.

Speaker 4 (05:06):
The stuff with snap it's just it's it's more sort
of proof. You can see. It's more proof.

Speaker 6 (05:14):
We have to build up these networks ourselves because they're
they're hanging by a thread.

Speaker 4 (05:19):
Trump is getting rid of everything.

Speaker 6 (05:21):
We can't have faith in the Democrats to restore things.
It's just we are constantly losing our social safety that
we have to build it in our communities.

Speaker 4 (05:31):
We have to build it ourselves.

Speaker 1 (05:34):
Excellent point.

Speaker 5 (05:34):
Here's the thing as well, is, like I mentioned earlier
about the disabusing of what the reality is food hunger
and food insecurity is because what people usually attribute for
food hungry and food insecurity has been reliant on the
stereotypes about people of color and usually that what I've noticed,
and I'm going to point this out, is that one

(05:55):
of the things that they, most of the mainstream media
is running to do is to pick black back or
brown people that are affected by disappearance of SNAP benefits.
But what they deliberately overlook, which I mentioned in one
of my previous interviews, is the fact that many white households,
a majority of the snap benefit olders are white people,

(06:15):
but they have been conditional indoctrinated to believe that it's opposite.
So if there's anything to be learned from this incident
that that snap benefits is attaching or attacking all walks
of life.

Speaker 1 (06:28):
What is yours sign?

Speaker 4 (06:30):
Yeah, I totally agree with that.

Speaker 6 (06:31):
I mean we see time and time again, these things
that are meant to criminalize, to humanize, and cause suffering
to poor people, to black and brown people, those things,
like you said, those things come back and get all
of us. So while there's some people who, like you said,

(06:53):
they feel all right because they feel like it means,
you know, black people aren't going to get this, or
poor people or people and it's not going to affect me.
These things are turned on all of us and we
need to really wake up to them. Just a few
weeks ago and continually right here at the Metropolitan Detention Center,

(07:14):
protesters against ICE are being cited for forty one eighteen.
This thing that was just supposed to be meant for
people on the street, now we're seeing just like every
every person on the street can tell you this, that
those things are going to come back, and they're not
just you know, they're telling us it's not just for us,
it's these are going.

Speaker 4 (07:33):
To be weaponized. These things are going to be weaponized.

Speaker 6 (07:35):
Over everybody, and it's it's it's really it's that's when
we talk about class war. This thing is class war
and our own what we get socialized with in this country,
our discriminations, our racism, our white supremacy, are our capitalists
sort of like tendencies. Those are all going to bide
us in the ass because what we think we're punishing

(07:57):
people for is going to come back, and it's going
to it's going to affect people.

Speaker 4 (08:02):
That's what we're having right now.

Speaker 6 (08:04):
Is is I think a nationwide like effect. It's the
poverty is creeping up into the professional class. It's creeping
up into the working aristocracy.

Speaker 4 (08:17):
People who thought they had.

Speaker 6 (08:18):
It kind of made and didn't have to worry about
these things. Like you said, federal workers are finding themselves
in food lines.

Speaker 7 (08:26):
Now.

Speaker 5 (08:27):
Is there anything that someone could do to be able
to donate or to contribute to your mutually?

Speaker 4 (08:34):
Yeah? Absolutely. You can check us out on our Instagram page.

Speaker 6 (08:39):
We are we like to make merch because we know
we have we have people who support us and a
lot of us too.

Speaker 4 (08:48):
Are We have different skills, different tasks that we like
to make little things to give back. So yeah, you can.

Speaker 6 (08:55):
Check out our our website, our Instagram page, Jay Town
Action and Solidarity, and then people can connect to volunteer,
you can connect just to donate. We're here every Saturday
on First and Judge Isa Street two to five. We
have been doing this every Saturday for five years now,
since the since the shelter in place order from pandemic.

Speaker 4 (09:18):
We haven't stopped. We're not going to stop.

Speaker 6 (09:21):
This is something that is continual and like I said,
we're trying to build community power here.

Speaker 1 (09:29):
Here's what Zin had to say.

Speaker 7 (09:33):
You know, no, thanks THEO for coming to this power
up and talking about.

Speaker 8 (09:37):
All of this.

Speaker 7 (09:38):
Yeah, it is never enough. It wasn't ever enough, and
now people are are being asked to wait indefinitely for
something that probably won't come. There's not enough money. Even
with whatever money that they have found or I think

(09:59):
it was like four billion.

Speaker 8 (10:00):
Dollars, we need nine billion dollars.

Speaker 7 (10:04):
And they're going to means test it right like, and
they're going to figure out who is most in need
and who is not. But yeah, we see today is
the first and a lot of folks did not get
their benefits and they're probably double the amount.

Speaker 8 (10:21):
Of people here at this power up.

Speaker 7 (10:25):
So we all really need to unite against these people
who don't give us shit about about us, about people
who go hungry. You know, we can fund wars, we
can fund the police. What is it, nine million dollars
a day goes to the LAPD, another seven million dollars

(10:47):
a day goes to the Sheriff's department.

Speaker 5 (10:49):
And fifty thousand bonus for I used to run up
and terrorize your neighborhood exactly.

Speaker 7 (10:54):
So yeah, we really have to come together and you know,
against these fucking assholes, because that's all we got. We
have each other, and that's how we win. I think
when we talk about like political education and things like that,
like we need to ask people not if they're hungry,

(11:17):
but why they're hungry. So like, so they understand that
they're in this situation and it's not their fault. It's
the fault of the system. It's the fault of capitalism.
It's systemic failures that need to be overturned immediately. And
I really hope that everyone understands who the real enemy is, right,

(11:42):
it's not each other. Things are going to get really stressful,
Things are going to get really tight, they already are,
and we cannot be fighting each other you know, we
have to keep each other safe and healthy, and however
we can do this, So.

Speaker 5 (11:57):
Thank you, thank you. Thanks to Mario and Zen for
returning to the show and sharing their perspective on the crisis.
For more information on Jaytown Action and solidarity, please check
out the links in the description. Those interviews were conducted

(12:19):
on the first day of SNAP benefits shut down, and
things have only continued to escalate. Here's how it began
and the impact it has as of this recording. On
November eleven, twenty twenty five. Number One, President Trump and
Republicans threatened and bragged about starving over forty two million

(12:39):
Americans and let the blame fall on the Democrats. Number
two it took federal courts to force Trump to pay
out funds to SNAP. First, he claimed confusion, then he balked,
using true social to direct the Department of Agriculture to
not pay out the SNAP benefits, or at the very

(13:02):
least only partially to pay it out. Number three Federal
courts admonished President Trump, demanding full payment. Trump rebelled, demanding
states give back the money. Number four Federal courts then
at monished Trump again, ordering him to pay out the

(13:23):
SNAP benefits and stop threatening states who complied with earlier
court decisions Number five. No matter the word salad, Trump
does not want to feed Americans, has used the Democrats
escape votes, and has used the American people's funds. As
we move closer to the holidays, the country thus far

(13:46):
has endured domestic terrorism, cruelty, and now the starvation of
millions of American people. These are developing stories. Weedy and
Howes will keep you apprized, and that's on House News.
When we come back, I speak with constitutional law professor

(14:09):
doctor Gloria J. Brown Marshall. Welcome back to Weedy and Howes.
I'm THEO Henderson. My guest today is doctor Gloria J.
Brown Marshall, a longtime civil rights attorney, activist, and a

(14:31):
prolific writer of both fiction and nonfiction.

Speaker 1 (14:35):
A recipient of the Ida B.

Speaker 5 (14:36):
Wells Barnet Justice Award, She's currently a professor of Constitutional
law at the City University of New York and just
released a new book, A Protest History of the United States.
She joins me this week to talk about the nature
of protests, a very relevant topic in this day of
turmoil and uncertainty.

Speaker 1 (14:56):
Here's our child.

Speaker 5 (15:01):
We are going to dive into a recent current book
and to some questions about the book and maybe hopefully
some of other insights that Professor Brown Marshall has. But
before we even get into this, let's set the stage
on who Professor Brown Marshall is. She's a professor of
constitutional law at John j College and an award winning writer, playwright,

(15:23):
and legal commentator. She has been a litigator for the
NAACP Legal Defense Fund, the Southern Poverty Law Center. Her
previous book is She Took Justice. The Black Woman, a
frequent kind of conversation that has been very integral, is
particularly in light of what's going on in the current

(15:44):
I hate to say that dumpy Trump administration, who is
removing outstanding, articulate, brilliant Black women from the body of
our society, that it really needs to steer because if
we don't know, the most highly educated list in our
country at this moment are as black women. And that
is not, as a conversational point that usually gets glossed over.

(16:06):
And I hope I am not laboring you too long.
Let us welcome Professor Brown Marshall, and we're going to
have a very lively and interesting conversation.

Speaker 8 (16:15):
Thank you, and I'm so glad to be here.

Speaker 5 (16:19):
Thank you, And I'm so glad you are here. So
if you don't mind, I have a few questions. And
you have obviously our prolific in writing, and I like
writing myself. I wanted to ask you about your current book.
Can you talk a little bit about that? And I
have some questions with it.

Speaker 8 (16:35):
Well, my current book is a protest history of the
United States. And what I did was to look at
over five hundred years of protests and protesters, selected protests
and protests a little bit. If I head five hundred
years worth of all the protests and protesters, it was
like be a book that nobody would read, let alone

(16:55):
be able to. And so but the thing that really
gets me is that when I was looking at the
issue of protest, I was, you know, looking at from
a legal standpoint. People are telling me protests and effective
protester doesn't work. Protests so civil rights twentieth century, it
doesn't work in the twenty first century. And at the

(17:16):
same time I knew of someone indirectly who had been
a community organizer all of her life in Brooklyn, and
she died penniless trying to make her community a better
place and doing so. And so I was like, how
dare you insult that contribution that this black woman made,
you know, to make that community better and say that, oh,

(17:38):
it means nothing. She wasn't just working in the twentieth century.
She was working up until the time she died, and
she died without enough money for a casket. And I
was like, Okay, let me put my legal head on
and make the argument for protest. And I wanted to
make the argument by showing the evidence over five hundred
years of the different protests and protesters, but I also

(18:00):
wanted to say it in a way that was storytelling.
So as part memoir, I talked about my great great
grandmother who was enslaved in her active protests while she
was enslaved. And then I expanded the idea of protest
because too many people think protests is just having to
sign in bullhorn in the street, which is great, and
I give props to all people because protests is a

(18:22):
risky thing for them in many different ways. But I
wanted to show the diversity of protests. Yes, it is
Stein's in the streets and I started doing that in
the third grade, but it's also selective buying or unelecting
people who are in positions of political authority and shouldn't
be there, you believe, you know, it can be deciding

(18:43):
that you're not going to buy products or you so
support certain businesses. I like to say, as Nina Simone,
I give it Nina Simone my visit somebody else who
said you need to learn how to leave the table
when love is no longer being served. So if you're
being disrespected, yes, And I think that's why I'd love
to say it because I've given it to her because

(19:03):
I heard it come from her, but it could have
been from someone else as well. But the idea that
you deserve, we deserve to be treated with respect. And
a black woman makes eighty cents on a white man's dollar,
and it's like, you're working so hard, you have to
be overly educated to get the job you have, and
you're making only eighty cents on that mail dollar. Don't

(19:25):
spend it where you're not respected.

Speaker 5 (19:27):
I think that's what you made A very good point
on that because two things that it jumps out to me.
It is ironic that people, particularly black women, are having advanced,
highly educated and to be reduced by Charlie Kirk, a
person that didn't even finish junior college. To disparage their
intellect and their intellectual prowess is just something that is
so commonplace in our communities and our conversations when we

(19:51):
hear that we have pitted that as that's a level
of incompetence. But the second thing that you did say
that I jumped into my mind as an example, which
which is also predominantly led by black women, is the
boycott of fighting against the DEI or I don't know
a target, I don't know if you know that they
are really scrambling trying to get that income from black

(20:11):
community members, particularly the black women that have been leading
that protest when they dismantled DEI or diversity initiatives or
products in their stores. And that's you bring that up,
bring that example to mine when you say that too,
and it's.

Speaker 8 (20:26):
And it's so true. It's like people have decided and
I hope we get into it later on the role
that black women have played. You know, from the standpoint
I remember leading a protest for President's Day from being
one of the leaders into Washington, d C. From New
York and New Jersey, and what was really obvious to

(20:48):
me was that many of the black women were sitting
it out, you know, and these protests need black women.
We've got over two hundred and fifty years worth of
institutional on how to protests effectively. And so I was
in Little Rock, Arkansas for the No Kings protests, and

(21:09):
I could tell you it wasn't it was. It was
the people came together in a very cheerful way, and
they their major thing was to come together in community,
which is great because unity and community are important in
this point. But I don't think that it's understood that
a protest is also supposed to disrupt and so, and

(21:31):
it's supposed to have a strategy behind it and a tactic,
and I think people are just looking at it like,
let's come together and have signs and show that we're
angry and frustrated with this government, that we want change,
and we were pushing back against the initiatives in this
regime that is, you know, and I call it a
regime because he called himself a dictator and the dictators

(21:51):
and their regimes too, and so yep, so this regime
has But there's another part of protests, and that's why
my book of protests history United State. I believe is
so important to empower people to see the ways that
Chief Palatan, who was the father of Pocahontas. People know Pokahontas,
but Pogahontas had a father, and Chief Palatan had to

(22:13):
then deal with the encourageon of the Europeans, you know,
in the sixteen hundreds, and he used various mechanisms, you know,
in addition to negotiation and all of that, but he
used various mechanisms of protests, even to I like to
say selective use of resources. In other words, when he

(22:36):
saw the Europeans were now be going to disrespect them,
but we're going to leave, he said, well, I'm cutting
off access to our resources, which is protesting your physical
being here. So if he was doing that back then,
and we've seen this happen over time. And here's another one.
This is not in my book because my book begins
with indigenous it goes to slave uprisings as protest as

(22:59):
well petitions that that free Blacks wrote on behalf of
the enslaved during the eighteen hundreds into the women's movement
and protests and marchism and different things that the women
did to gain the vote all the way up to
labor joining a labor union as protest, you know, because
they're saying, I'm not gonna just take the money and

(23:19):
the conditions you give me, employer. I am a human
being and there for I should be able to, you know,
present myself and collectively. That's where the community comes in
with a unified voice at the bargaining table, you know,
to people standing up against police involved civilian assaults, you know,
and police involve assaults on civilians. We saw that in

(23:42):
the George Floyd context, but it's been going on for
well over a century and into climate change.

Speaker 5 (23:48):
There's a couple of things that you mentioned that has
jumped out in my mind during their time, not only
during the time where Pocahonta's father, Captain Polton, tried to
dismantle and disrupta For example, in the earlier days of slavery,
there were leaders that were dismounting and sabotaging the equipment
or feigning sick or of course we're doing the runaway,

(24:11):
or creating the networks of underground railroads and other.

Speaker 1 (24:14):
Activities to disrupt it.

Speaker 5 (24:16):
But I want to bring it also to today because
we know what's going on right now with the government regime.
They are shutting down, refusing to give snap benefits to
people that sorely needed. And you know, of course, the
usual stereotype is that it's lazy people, or it's people
that are.

Speaker 1 (24:35):
Of color, or it's black folk.

Speaker 5 (24:36):
They're lazy that, or they just don't want to work,
or whatever that we have here, notwithstanding the likelihood of the
job market has going and taken a downturn. But I
want to put that aside for a moment to ask
what would be a good example for the community to
rise up to do a protest because November first, whether
they if they don't stop to shut down, they don't

(24:58):
open the government, a lot of people that's going to
be affected, and they're got a lot of people going
to start. There are some conversations that I've been hearing
whispering about some stories of locking themselves out, making sure
that people make only online purchases, because they don't want
the people to go in there and start to raid
the groceries, because there's going to be people that are

(25:18):
going to take penitentiary chances to help with the consequences
if you're starving or you don't have the wherewithal financial
wherewithal to feed your family. You're just not gonna let
them starve. And it's just and I think that needs
to be said. But secondly, the intransigency of the government
because they can't stop it. They can give a quick
stop gap, they have the funding, but they refuse to

(25:41):
and the President refuses to talk about these conversations. My
program is called Weedy and House. I created this program
when I was living on the streets for over eight years,
and I created it talking about my story, talking about
friends that were living on the street, and then communities
that were living in displaced in other areas, not only

(26:02):
just in Los Angeles, but also outside of Los Angeles
as well as now internationally that people are displaced or
hungry or fleeing displacement.

Speaker 1 (26:12):
To talk about it, So, protests is always.

Speaker 5 (26:15):
Going to be one of the things that we need
to do to bring attention. But I wanted to see
what can we do. What would you suggest that would
be an effective protest? But like I said, with the
guidance not only just agitating or disrupting, but also getting
your message.

Speaker 8 (26:31):
Across, well, two things come to mind. One and that's
why I said my book of protests. History of the
United States is a history book. Four Today, too often
we say, well, what can we do today? If we
look at history, it can teach us so much. The
tent cities now, whether or not it was the tent

(26:51):
cities that were the ten cities of the early nineteen
hundreds for the veterans who formed ten cities in Washington,
d c. Because the government did the same thing, refuse
to give them the money that they felt they deserve
to have, and so they built tent sittings to become
aware that you're not going to disappear us, you know.

(27:13):
And this is where disruption comes in, because if people
can oppress and comfort, why would they stop oppressing. So
then that means we have to make oppression uncomfortable. And
so what are the ways in which we can make
oppression uncomfortable? One, you have to be able to see
the oppressed, and so that means we have to be

(27:34):
visible to these people. And too often these protests are
taking place in front of city Hall on the weekend.
Nobody's at work. Then the protest should be there during
the day when these people have to go around the protesters,
they have to see them, and we have to think
about where can you go to actually be seen? The

(27:57):
other thing coming from the civil rights movement, where can
you go to sit in? Do you have to wait
until November first? Who said that? You know? You can also?
I mean November first, it's tomorrow, But November first doesn't
have to be the only day. So if you think
about sit ins, where can you sit in? If they're

(28:19):
expecting you to sit in at your local grocery store,
why not sit in at one of those nice, nice
grocery stores, you know, whether or not it's the Trader
Joe's or the other high end grocery stores.

Speaker 4 (28:32):
You know.

Speaker 8 (28:33):
Don't come in all at once, come in like a
few at a time. Remember how they used to the
Civil rights movement. You wore your nice clothes going in.
Have somebody with the camera. People can then be this
for those people or lawyers. You could be the one.
If somebody gets arrested, you're ready to get them out.
You have other people who can be part of the protests.

(28:54):
They have the bad money, so they stay another place.
The telephone numbers are there, called them. That's how you
get bonded out of jail. If they decide to arrest
where is a good place to disrupt in front of
the cash register, you know where the checkout stand is,
how long? And make sure us during the day and

(29:16):
so have somebody else there who's got their phone to
film it all so it can go online just in
case people want to say other things happen, you know,
want to make sure that it's recorded. So if you
start thinking about the sit in and people aren't even
using the city in right now because they always go, oh,
that happened back, then, know the sit in is something

(29:38):
that can be happening right now to bring attention and
to disrupt in a non violent way. And you have
to make sure the people who are with you are
those who have decided this is a non violent protest.
You also have to figure out who could be arrested
and who should not be arrested, because a person who
should not be arrested maybe they're the ones with the
camera and they're in the eye and they pretend like

(30:01):
they're just a shopper recording everything that's happening. And as
I said this, one person who did a sit in
at a grocery store told me their sit in got
stopped because they all came in at once, so don't
all come in at once. You know, maybe two here,
one there, different parts. Then it's coordinated at a certain time,

(30:23):
you know, singing, we shall overcome, sit down and decide
how long you're going to be there. It's going to
be an hour sitting. You know. When they say we're
going to call the police. When the police arrive, it's like, well,
they're going to give you a warning. The security guard
is going to be there first, you know, and say
you can't do this or whatever. That's where the tactics

(30:43):
come in. And everybody's got a role. The person who's
got the bond money, the person who's got the lawyers,
the people who can drive the folks there. You have
to think about who's got the singing voice. I know
I always wanted to have that protest strong singing voice.
That's not me, okay, but you need that person who's
going to keep the morale up and keep the spirit going.

(31:07):
I went to a protest, I started the chant, people
started chant. I started the chant, people started a chat.
I didn't chant. Nothing happen. And I'm thinking, am I
the only person in this protest who knows how to
carry a chance? You know, It's like they are basic
parts of protests that you're looking at that you need to, like,
after the protest is over, where do you gather to debrief,

(31:28):
what went right, what went wrong? Who are your allies,
what do you need to do differently, where's the next place?
And plan it out so that they don't know where
you're going to go next. So this is just one way,
is what I'm saying, that you could bring protests into
the twenty first century, and of course using social media,

(31:51):
put that video on social media, try to get it
out to as many places as possible, to get other
people around the country to also start looking at sit ins.
And if these grocery stores aside they're going to close
their doors, that means they're also going to lose money.

Speaker 5 (32:05):
Yeah, yeah, thank you for that, because I wanted to
like also just bringing home to that there's a sense
of hopelessness and sense of fear, but that's with any injustice,
because that's one thing I've noticed when I've been out there,
that that's always going to be that you're going to
have to overcome that, You're going to have to understand
your limitations, but also your strengths. Is what you have

(32:27):
basically summarized and which did it effectively, which brings me.

Speaker 1 (32:32):
Into another question. I hope you don't mind.

Speaker 5 (32:34):
Wouldn't you say that we did do the diverse forms
of protests? And I have to ask, do you believe
that activism is intersectional?

Speaker 8 (32:42):
I believe activism for me, as a black woman is
definitely intersectional. I mean it's intersectional around race because it's like,
there are things that happened to me because I am
a black woman. I just came back from France and
you know, and I was there and there were you know,
because I'm black. I go into the sauna at my

(33:03):
hotel of this high end hotel, all the white people leave. Okay,
you know, going to the steam room, all the white
people leave. This is something that happens here in the
United States as well. Yes, you know, you go into
the pool and the white people get out of the pool.
You know, this is old. All of this now, Is
it because I'm a woman? No? I think it's because

(33:23):
I'm black. But the African American woman is an iconic
figure around the world. We are known around the world.
So that intersectionism of race and gender, and that's why
my book She Took Justice a Black woman Law and Powers,
the one that I wrote before this one, and she
took justice. You know, deal starts with Queen and Zinga

(33:45):
and goes all the way to Shirley Chisholm talking about
stories of black women who took a stand even in
the sixteen hundred, seventeen, eighteen hundreds, they continue to take
a stand up to the nineteen sixties and further. But
also you have intersectionism of race, gender, and regionalism. People
don't talk about regionalism. They don't talk about the fact that, yeah,

(34:08):
that you have Because I used to live in the South,
and I know, I had only moved to the South.
I'd only been there forty eight hours. I moved there
from Philadelphia to Montgomery, Alabama. I was there forty eight hours.
I called back up the Philadelphia because there was something
other business had to take care of. They saw the
Alabama area code. It started talking really slow, acting like

(34:31):
I didn't I couldn't understand, And I was like, oh,
my goodness, this is why so many people in the
South get so angry with the people, especially in the Northeast,
because it's like you've got this prejudice against the South
that everybody in the South is dumb. So here I
am being there forty eight hours and you just you know,
this prejudice, this assumption that I must be stupid because

(34:53):
I have a Montgomery, Alabama telephone number, you know. So
we have to talk about the intersectionalism, of of regionalism
and the prejudices people have against different folks because they
grew up or a part of, or like being in
certain areas of the country. I'm a fifth generation Proud
excel Duster, and the Exodusters were the ones My great

(35:15):
great grandmother, who was enslaved, moved from Kentucky to Kansas
in the first great Black migration in the eighteen seventies,
the eighteen seventies. So she arrived in Kansas in eighteen
seventy nine. And we've got the paper to prove it
and everything, and it's in my book Protests History the
United States, and once again, protests is moving if you

(35:38):
want to be treated better, that's why black people move.
That's an active protest. I'm not going to stay down
here and be terrorized by you. I'm leaving. That's an
act of protest. That's why I say we have to
expand the idea of protests. So the intersexualism could be
you know, whether or not a person is an immigrant
to this country and how their experiences could be black
female and you know from another country is the immigrant status.

(36:02):
I mean, all of these things go into who you
are as a person in all of them at different
points when it comes to us, are reasons for prejudice
from outside communities.

Speaker 5 (36:12):
That point is very well stated because of the fact
that the unhoused community what they are being targeted, and
it's very difficult in many respects to get the attention
of house people. And when you mentioned the prejudices of
the regionalism people who have been focusing rightly so on
the injustices that's going on in Gaza and also the

(36:34):
injustices of the ice rates and things of that nature.
To recognize that and you recognize the horror, you are
incited to do something about it. But when you see
unhouse people's homes being destroyed, that medication is taking away
from them and their vital things that they need to
survive in cold weather or pirth, certificates and IDs and

(36:55):
things to be able to type them over to find
dignified housing doesn't move the community as much. They look
at them in a different light. I say, if you
can demonize the purple, then you can criminalize them. And
that is a lot of times what happens with the
unhoused community. They use selective narratives that they're unworthy and

(37:16):
worthy poor, which is another conversation that I've been talking
about a lot.

Speaker 8 (37:20):
I know, I think you're right, and I will add
to intersectionalism whether or not a person has been in
an unhoused situation, because these points of intersexualism look at
the different identities a person carry. And I've known people
who have been survivors, and that survivor, you know, mindset

(37:43):
is a part of their character, is a part of
who they are, part of their identity. But I was
also in Washington, d C. Looking at the National Guard
walking around and once again people they're making them feel
comfortable in their oppression, you know. And what folks are
doing to the unhoused in Washington in different places now

(38:06):
that this cold weather is starting, it's really.

Speaker 1 (38:10):
It's not benefits of being turned off to yes.

Speaker 8 (38:13):
And then they're waiting for trouble so they can be
arrested and they can put their like put their pictures
up as as Donald Trump did, and the people they
put their pictures up really should suit. They should suit
for defamation because Donald Trump was talking about calling them
murderers and all of this, and they they actually had
a picture of a gentleman who.

Speaker 9 (38:33):
Had a driving while drunk arrest and they had him
in this and was calling him with this picture up there,
you know, his monk shot and referring to them as murderers.

Speaker 8 (38:45):
And it's like, that's the defamation suit right there. And
also all the pictures were black people. Every picture they
used when they handed out the materials to the reporters
for the briefing, we're all black, as though there was
no white person who was drinking driving. What people need
to understand very importantly, so the issues that gave rise

(39:06):
to the disproportionate number of unhoused among the African American
and other people of color. You know, this has been
generational in building. Yes, and as soon as we started
getting somewhat of a little tiny foothold into the economy,
now you see what's happening.

Speaker 5 (39:24):
When we come back more with doctor Brown Marshall, welcome
back to Wittia and howse Antheo Henderson. Let's get back
into my conversation with doctor Brown Marshall.

Speaker 8 (39:40):
The backlash to take away those federal jobs. You know,
it's like undermining the unions, all the ways in which
black communities and other communities that had been working class
were trying to build their way up educationally, undermining the HBCUs,
undermining the other ways in which people can pay for

(40:00):
their schooling. You know, all of this is something they're doing,
but they're targeting black people. And the reason why is
because Barack Obama was a two term black president. Barack
Obama received the Nobel Prize. And that's why this guy
wants a Nobel Pride just because Barack Obama had it.
And I wouldn't be surprised if he applied to him

(40:21):
didn't get into Columbia University and Harvard, And that's why
he's going after those two schools. But also that a
black woman stood to to toe to him on the
world stage. And it's almost as though if I was
in the room, I would tell you it would be
like they said, how did these black people get to
this position? And everything every path that led up to

(40:44):
their success, every ladder they climbed, We're going to pull
down the ladder, burn it to a crisp and burn
the ashes so that they will never be able to
rise up again. And once again, look at history, this
has happened twice before, three of actually three times before.
First when black men gain the right to vote after
eighteen seventy, and there were black male politicians and state, local,

(41:08):
federal offices, and what they did, the poll tax, the
Grandfather Clause, the literacy tests in eighteen ninety it was
like black cobs. All of this then, of course, rampant violence,
no prosecutors prosecuting, no judges doing anything, you know, lynchings,
everything else.

Speaker 1 (41:27):
Why ugly losses, Yes.

Speaker 8 (41:29):
Because they wanted to stop the progress. You go back
to the red Summer of nineteen nineteen once again, all
that that they had done, we started to build our
way up. Nineteen nineteen comes you start to see raids
on black communities across the country. What happened with Rosewood,

(41:49):
what happened with Tulsa, Oklahoma, thriving communities. They came in,
burned them down, East Saint Louis burned it down. So
you'll see this happen again and again in this country.
As soon as black people start rising up, the first
thing they want to do is like the so called
put them in their place is to destroy all of

(42:11):
that progress through unfair laws and violence. And so the
unhoused they want us to be. This is what And
I heard this, so I'm going to say this is
antecdotal some of these farmers who are now suffering as well.
When some of these farmers said, well, you drove away

(42:31):
all the Latinos who are working, but you promised us,
So some conversation happened. You promised us black people would
be the ones put in these jobs. So that's what
they're trying to do. They're trying to take away everything
and force these black people into the jobs that Latinos
had who were undocumented in others, so that we will

(42:52):
go back and to become this perpetual labor class. So
that's what they want to do. And if they can't
force us into these they're going to force us into
the prisons.

Speaker 1 (43:04):
Yeah, that's the next thing.

Speaker 8 (43:05):
And I'm gonna tell you this is and I'll like
channel down with this because you don got me excited, Okay,
to be unhoused. Is this sense of now we're under
their control. Yes, and that's what they want. They want
to control black people and that's been something they've wanted

(43:27):
from the very beginning, and we've navigated such hostilities. And
I'm not saying that that all folks want things that way,
but there're too many quiet people. Is Martha the King
said it was the silence of the good people, that
he was so stunned by the silence of the good people.
And then you said something that's very important too, about

(43:50):
how many things you said are very important, but also
how those folks expect black people to be unhoused. Absolutely
so that intersectionalism again, how it's like the expectation is
we're supposed to have less, and if we have as

(44:11):
much or equal, then nature is off balance in some
weird way. And when we talk about our issues, oh, yes,
you're supposed to have issues, but what about this person?
What about that person? Is always this assumption of deficit.
We're always supposed to have less, and that's why people

(44:32):
become numb to it.

Speaker 5 (44:33):
Another thing too, one of the things that from my
own experience of being displaced out on the street. And
I am a college graduate and I was an educator.

Speaker 1 (44:42):
I taught middle school and high school.

Speaker 5 (44:44):
To show the stereotype when I would tell people be
they will be so surprised. And then you know, when
I started tutoring other students that or people when I
was living on the street, they couldn't reconcile the idea
that I was educated living on the streets and I
wasn't what like with Donald Trump did with his executive order,
which really ticks me off. It's like this, it's just
this insiduous game that they played. He wrote this executive

(45:08):
order and he basically said that unhoused people are mentally
ill or on substant usage or both, and he made
it he framed it in such a way to give
license to people to run out there to attack and
raid unhoused people. Yes, And the thing with it is
they have like eis you go to treatment or you
go to a shelter, And there's so many complicated nuances

(45:31):
with this, and I take you to moment.

Speaker 1 (45:33):
I'm gonna just take a moment. I got me excited.

Speaker 5 (45:35):
Like, for example, the people that are fleeing domestic abuse, Yes,
if they have a boy and a girl, they may
not be able to go to a shelter because they
have an opposite sex child, So they have to stay
in their car, or they have to find because Not
every shelter is equitable, not every shelter is going to
be magnanimous and open the doors to you or if

(45:56):
a car through. But most importantly, the thing that really
annoys me about it is how it's always framed. It
is always framed that unhoused people are going to jump
out at your poor children, or it has the sinister
what I have here in Los Angeles Week, I call
it to do Jim Crow. It is forty one to eighteen,
and the message behind it, what they hide behind, is

(46:20):
that at any moment that unhoused person that's displaced is
going to jump out at house people and take them
and do all these deferious things. But the code is
simply this. It is against the law for unhoused people
to sit, sleep, or lie near the sign of a
Jim Crow type sign that they're within one hundred mediars

(46:40):
of it.

Speaker 1 (46:41):
It could be from a school, it could be from
a church, it could be from whatever.

Speaker 5 (46:44):
If the city or the neighborhood does not want on
the house people around, they have the right then to
arrest and jail unhoused people. It is a felony, a
six year felony in Tennessee to be unhoused on state proper.
If you fall asleep or whatever it is, you try
to survive, you can go to prison for six years

(47:07):
and receive a felony for being unhoused, not doing.

Speaker 1 (47:11):
Anything violent, just trying to survive.

Speaker 5 (47:14):
Now, and I extend to you what happens after the
six years. Now the person's got a record. Now, a
person's gonna have a difficult to get a job. Now,
a person's gonna have a difficulty find house. So where
is it going to end up back again into the
prison system. So it is definitely calculated. It's definitely cruelty,
is the point. And it's most importantly why I had
such an issue with when we have such injustice that's

(47:37):
going on our cities, our leaders or the people that
are speaking out of the injustice that to see with Gaza,
they don't see the injustices and how in city it
is for us to turn a blind eye to the
unhoused community. It is also I had a bonus contention
with when I have to explain to people that are
in the movement why voting is so important for or

(48:00):
African American people, and I just just going my please
to be hearing my footbox he was punishable by death
for any enslaved person to know how to read. Because
if I go back to the time when I was
teaching my students about the time when Frederick Douglass was
sneaking to learn how to read, what happened to him

(48:22):
the transformation that he encountered when he started to question
and deeply and analyze his plight and found out that
he was unhappy being enslaved, and found out that he
had emotions that go beyond just going on his pleasure
or submit himself to the master who was abusive. Anyway,

(48:43):
he wanted freedom, His souls cried out for freedom, His
intellectrical processes, you know, grew sharper, and he tried to
make steps to stop, and he did make steps to
eject himself from that impressive system. The point of it
is is that the reason why voting is so essential,
it's because if it did not matter, if it did

(49:04):
not matter, why is the government. Why are people like
Trump and other leaders trying to suppress it so much?
If it didn't matter, if voting didn't matter, why is
it that they get so upset and targeting black communities
or poor communities in order for them to not be
able to vote if it didn't matter, it matters. It's

(49:25):
because they know that that is the lynchpin from oppression
to freedom, and they know that when you get the
right person in there to open the door and speak
out against those injustices that cannot be ignored. They're going
to try to silence it. But know if you get
enough momentum, going to think the impressive regime or depressive
law or whatever code that they have can be overturned.

(49:47):
So that's one of the things that really has been
a bone of contention when I see other activists are
saying don't vote, or is what's the point of voting?
Or an ice cube or some celebrity saying that both
sides are you know, it's it's like you don't understand
the weight that that is so dismiss it so abjectly
just out of turn. It's problematic. But that's my poet.

Speaker 8 (50:11):
Well, I'll say I've had a couple of people, you know, say,
before the election, oh they're both the same, Yeah, yeah,
you know, and I'm looking at them going, Okay, is
this the way you rationalize your vote for somebody who
represents pure capitalism? You know, because this this is a
country that sold people. This is the country that took

(50:35):
land and then tried to commit genocide against the people
who were on the land so that they could use
the land for what they wanted. This is the country
that would have workers work in any conditions whatsoever, toxic
and otherwise, and not care whether or not they lost
a limb or died of some type of toxic poison.
They didn't care as long as people actually did the work.

(50:59):
This is the country during COVID that started to require
people to come back to work when they did not
have protections against the disease and co workers there were dying.
This pure capitalism. And I'm not this rabbit anti capitalistic person,
but I can see the difference between the two candidates

(51:19):
back in October and people, whether or not it's celebrities
or actors or you know these black folks with some
money in their pockets right now who want to act
as though you know, we did this to ourselves, who
don't know history well enough, or we could have a
conversation so that I can better help them understand our history.

(51:42):
That black men gained the right to vote in eighteen
seventy with the fifteenth Amendment, the black vote has been
pivotal to the outcome of presidential elections, pivotal to the
point that I have in my book, and I wrote
the book the Voting Rights War, so you can find
the Voting Rights War, and you've seen in there what
they said at that eighteen ninety Constitutional Convention why they

(52:07):
created the literacy test, the pull tax, And they said
it was for the N word. That's what they said,
nobody else, just that they knew how important that black
vote was. And when black women and other women gained
the right to vote in nineteen twenty with the nineteenth Amendment,
the first thing they did was try to undermine the
black female vote because that's how much the black woman

(52:28):
had already learned how to community organize, or had already
learned how to have political organizations. I'd be Wells. Barnett
had a Chicago political organization in the late eighteen hundreds,
early nineteen hundreds. That's how long we've been political organized.
So each time they know our power and strength. They

(52:50):
knew the power of the vote. And I still think
something happened, you know, when it came to November. You know,
I still think there was some voter suppression and other
things that took place, you know, going into that vote
that nobody even analyzed. Nobody is even like trying to
figure out what happened, you know. So I really disagree
with people who don't vote because the black vote is crucial.

(53:12):
I really understand that there are black women who are
tired of being that burden carrier for so many people
and so many groups. We've been carrying the burden of
a lot of folks who won't carry their weight. But
I'll tell you this one part that when it comes
to the vote, and I've been talking about voting writes
for a long time a lot of my careers, I

(53:33):
told you and wrote a book about it. Everything. There's
a saying that one of the best tricks the Devil
ever played was to make you believe he didn't exist.
So if you apply that to the vote, one of
the best best tricks they did was to make you
believe your vote didn't count.

Speaker 1 (53:51):
YEP.

Speaker 5 (53:52):
And on that thing, though, too, is like what I said,
you know, there's a reason why that they're so adamant
about it. But to be totally clear about why many
people voted for Trump, it was like, I call this,
this is something I say that sometimes people that are oppressed,
they're invested in their own oppression. And most importantly, white
supremacy was the leading cause, because if you knew him

(54:15):
his first term, you can't say that you were swindled
on the second one. The second one because he made
it very clear long before he became president that he
didn't like people of color. But the most important thing
is how he framed his conversations, how he framed how
he went out to Obama, while he framed himself to
making sure he injected the white voice, the white standards

(54:38):
of white supremacy in everything that he carried himself out to.
What you see now is what he's putting into practice
of what his thinking was all along.

Speaker 8 (54:47):
But here's the thing, and once again back to my
protest history of the United States. People can unelect folks
as well. That's your protest vote. Your protest vote is
to unelect this person. I need to understand why. You
know the Muslim vote was to be quiet. They decided
we're not going to vote for either side. What did

(55:08):
you think was going to happen? This is you see,
This is why a lot of black women are protesting
the protest like Quibbi are protesting, whether that you called
the ninetwo percent or whatever, they're protesting the protests. They're saying,
why wouldn't you vote for this candidate who is smart,
who's hard working, and this is the other choice you made,

(55:30):
You would rather not vote at all? What did you
think was going to be the consequence in Gaza if
you were going to allow this man to become president
of the United States? When the Latinos voted and black
women are like, we're protesting the protests, Why Latinos would
you vote for somebody who talked about you like this
and you voted for them anyway, and now you want

(55:51):
the black woman to be part of the protests against ice?
You know. So black women, many of them are protesting
the protests. But I'm gonna tell you this, and this
is what I pushback has been. If we're not at
the table of these protests, we have to figure out
where and when we want to enter these protests. But
I can understand the black women protesting the protests because

(56:12):
there's so many things that you know, even the relatives
I actually know indirectly a Latina whose mother is undocumented,
and this Latina voted for Trump and now she's trying
to go to an immigration attorney to try to get
her mother from being deported. It's like, what do you
think and what role do you want black women to

(56:35):
play in this? We come with two hundred and fifty
years of institutional knowledge on protesting, so you have a
lot of people who are out protesting, but it's almost
like a community party. And I understand, given COVID and
given social media, that we need to organically form communities
so that we can begin to start that interaction again

(56:56):
because people have been so separated, and so that community
is what's happening in the first stages of the protests.
But now it's time to get serious about tactics, about strategies,
and you've kind of go to institutional knowledge on this.
You can't be learning on the fly when you're dealing
with people who are deep seated in hatred and will

(57:17):
do anything using our own federal resources against us. This
is no time to play go to some experts. This
is no time to learn on the side. This is
the time for all hands on, Dick. That's why I said,
it's great that we're coming together in community, but there
are people we need to have some conversations. Some folks
are going to have togs explain their behavior that got

(57:37):
us in this mess in the first place. So don't
just get mad and expect everybody to jump in when,
as you said, you bought into your own oppression and
now you want other people to feel your pain, and
black women already come with the pain of some of
these very same people being highly prejudiced. Exactly, highly prejudice.

(57:58):
There are too many people who are prejudice against black
women in the first place, and they want us to
jump into this game. So this is a complex situation.
But in the end, whether or not we're in our silos,
we're going to have to figure out we're going to
get picked off one at a time. We're going to
have to figure out a commonality here. But there are

(58:18):
some hurt feelings, there are some questions that need to
be asked and answered. There are some communications that need
to happen between these groups, because when I see a
lot of these protests is mainly white people out protesting,
and they're partying more than protesting, and they're like, you know,
having the get togethers as I told you, in front
of federal buildings or state buildings, that are closed, so

(58:42):
you know, but they but I know and you do
probably know too as a man of color, that when
black folks and other people of color get involved in this,
that's when the violence starts.

Speaker 5 (58:52):
Exactly exactly, you know, there is no such thing as
a peaceful protest as a parade.

Speaker 8 (58:57):
You are so right, And that's why I said, I
can standard organically that we have to figure out how
to come together. But now let's move into the next
stage of this protest, and that's disruption. Yes, and you
have to figure out. And I had to say to
somebody just yesterday when we're talking about nonviolent protests, nonviolent
protests one is very unique. And that's why when Martin

(59:19):
Luther King and others were doing the Mahatma Gandhi that
I got rusting it was so unique to have a
nonviolent protest, because most protests are in some way violent.
But here's the other part the nonviolent protest was the
reaction to the violence sustained by the protesters is usually
those within the status quo, whether or not it's the

(59:39):
corporation or is the government, state look or federal government
or thugs. On the other side, people on the status
quo who dislike the fact that you actually want to
speak up. Whether or not it's anti war protests, which
is also one of the chapters in my book, but
it's whether or not you respond with violence when violence
has been used against the person. That's nonviolent protests, civil disobedience.

(01:00:05):
Civil disobedience is when people decide they're not going to
follow law. So you could have a sit in, that's
also civil disobedience. So when you go back and you
see people who were in the sentence didn't fight back,
But who are the ones who were violent? Those people
who are pushing them, knocking them down, beating up white
The people sitting in weren't doing anything except sitting there,

(01:00:26):
and then all of a sudden, these black students had
these white people come in and start hitting them and
throwing them around. There are classes on nonviolent protests. It's
not something people just wrap their head around and walk
out and do. It's a philosophy, and it's the sense
that only black people are supposed to engage in nonviolent protests.
Then the idea is you don't act with violence when

(01:00:48):
violence has been acted upon you as a protester. That's
nonviolent protests. To have violence used in protests. That's something
we've seen, you know, these folks do from the very beginning.
It's been that way for hundreds of years. White people
have been using violence against people of color and protests

(01:01:09):
and other white people in protests. The eight hour workday.
We have the eight hour workday that was signed in
law in the eighteen hundreds. It didn't become a part
of our reality until the nineteen hundreds because we had
workers protests, they had strikes, they had sit ins, they
had teachings what we call teachings now they would have rallies.

(01:01:30):
So in the end, there's so many parts of protests
that we aren't engaging in yet. And then people are
already asking why isn't it changed, and they've just started,
they've just started the process.

Speaker 5 (01:01:45):
Wow, this was an excellent conversation. I thank you a professor.
We just touched us just the top of the surface
of the matter. But I do believe it is very
important in this time of instability, as well as the
intimidation factors that are going on with this regime and
trying to silence dissent, because there's an active program that's

(01:02:06):
been going on, and I do think this is timely,
and I think it's necessary in all of our intersections
to understand that from the young house to housed and
to all of the other in sections that are needed
to understand. This is a pivotal moment. We're on the
precipice and we need to reconfigure our strategies and to
be able to step out and protest in diverse manners.

Speaker 8 (01:02:28):
Power to the people, Right.

Speaker 1 (01:02:31):
You, sir, Thank you, ma'am.

Speaker 5 (01:02:38):
Thanks so much to doctor Brown Marshall for her time
and work. You can learn more about her and a
protest history of the United States at the links in
the description.

Speaker 1 (01:02:48):
Now, thank you for listening in If.

Speaker 5 (01:02:51):
You have a story, please reach out to me at
Weedianhouse at gmail dot com or weedian House on Instagram.
Then may we again meet in the light of understanding.
William Howes is a production of iHeartRadio. It is written, hosted,
and created by me Theo Henderson, our producers Jamie Loftus,

(01:03:15):
Kayley Fager, Katie Fischer, and Lyra Smith.

Speaker 1 (01:03:19):
Our editor is Adam Wand, our.

Speaker 5 (01:03:21):
Engineer is Joel Jerome, and our local art is also
by Katie Fisher.

Speaker 1 (01:03:27):
Thank you for listening.