February 27, 2026 • 19 mins
Richard Hatch, the winner of Survivor season one, is joining Wells and Dolores to kick off their journey into Survivor season 50!
But first, they have to pick Richard’s brain about all things Survivor… Why wasn’t he asked back for this monumental season? What ultimately led to Survivor being “the worst thing that’s ever happened to him”?
Despite his rocky relationship with the show, what brings him back to watch every season?! Is he impressed with the players that were chosen? Does he think he could do better?
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome in all you Faithfuls and Traders to another episode
of By Order of the Faithfuls. But today we will
not be talking about.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
The show Traders.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
We're gonna be talking about well, one of the iconic
reality TV shows of the last thirty years. That's right,
we will be recapping season fifty of Survivor, where the
fans have decided what's going to be going on this season.
It's gonna be a lot of fun. Dolores and I
will be walking you through every single episode. But I
(00:30):
gotta be honest with you. I'm very excited as someone
who works in reality TV and kind of knows the
juggernauts of the shows we have on our show today.
Arguably the first big reality TV star in Richard Hatch.
He was a first ever Survivor when you're earning the
title Soul Survivor in Survivor Borneo, he that are competed
(00:52):
on Survivor All Stars as well. While known for his
arrogance and well a lot of nudity and remarkable phishing skills,
Richard is best known for creating the series first ever alliance,
which helped define Survivor gameplay as the strategy became a
template for how the game we played. In subsequent years,
he is now a pop culture icon, being referenced in
(01:14):
the newest season of Hulu's Paradise. We're talking about that
in just a bit, but please welcome to, by order
of the Faithful's Survivor edition, Richard Hatch.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
Hi, Richard, Hi, the Lord sweetheart. How are you.
Speaker 4 (01:29):
I'm well, thanks, I've watched you for a long time.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Ah, thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Wait, Richard, are you not familiar with my work? How
else is hurtful? Thank you so much for conan on
the show. You are, you know, a legend in reality TV,
so much so that I don't know Richard, if you
saw this, but there's a show on Hulu that I'm
obsessed with called Paradise. Not Bachelor in Paradise, uh, just Paradise.
(01:55):
And you are referenced in this show. And I have
actually this script here. It says Geier says, so let's
not make it make it out like you were Richard
Hatch or something. Richard Hatches dot dot dot Yeah, I
know he won the first season or Survivor chef saying,
oh you're saying nice.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
I mean that's.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Pretty cool that like you were that much part of
the reality TV ze.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
Guys Still Being Awesome season season two, episode one.
Speaker 4 (02:23):
I haven't seen it yet because I'm still on season one. Yeah.
I love Paradise, but uh, I'll get there. But boy
have I've been getting a lot of notifications that they
referenced me.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Ah well, that the show is so good.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
And when I I was watching the first three episodes
right when it came out, so I'm obsessed with it.
And I saw that and I was like, oh my god,
I think he's gonna be on the show. This is
this is amazing, and it's it's it's got to feel
very cool. And so when you when you do get
to that point, d m us and tell us how
you feel, because it's got to feel pretty cool.
Speaker 4 (02:55):
Yeah. No, it's fun when when things like that pop up,
or on Jeopardy. Yeah, I pop on Jeopardy every now
and then what.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
You've experienced to be the first of so many seasons
and it's like it's like a whole phenomenon a culture.
It's do you think it's kind of like what Traders
is becoming now or what do you think?
Speaker 4 (03:16):
Yeah? So, I mean we were the first on any
major network, the first what they call reality show, unscripted drama,
and everything kind of arose from that. There were some
things like Real World, but it was on cable and
so this was the first My season was seventy four million,
seventy two million viewers.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
That's crazy. I mean the reference I want to let
you know, like numbers those crazy. I think the highest
Housewives got back in the day was what eight or something.
Now we're getting like to to and change two to
three million. It's I mean, but what you're talking about
is like exciting. It was exciting. It was new for
(03:57):
people and.
Speaker 4 (03:58):
A crazy phenomenon. But it's been a wild, wild ride.
And the game itself Survivor that we'll be talking about
is awesome. You know the people behind the scenes, we
can go there too.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
We want to go there. Oh, no, Red Shirt, I
want to know the inside scoop.
Speaker 4 (04:16):
Yeah, well, I mean it's they're pretty awful. So Lauris,
when the hell am I going to be on Traders?
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (04:22):
You should have been already.
Speaker 4 (04:23):
I mean, the thing is made for me.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Richard.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
You you will be on Wells, don't you think so?
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Dina CAATs, if you're listening to this, who does the
cast for that get Richard on.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
But here's the thing, Richard, I feel.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Like if I was in in that roundtable, i'd want
to get you out because you would scare me in
that show.
Speaker 4 (04:43):
Yeah, but we're not there in person, and I haven't.
I haven't, I haven't wielded my wiles yet.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
Yeah that maybe, you know, I think that you would
be too much of a thread off the bat.
Speaker 4 (04:56):
You know, they were lots of people waste approach it.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Yeah, you know, it is.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
A different game. Though, it is a different game, so
it's nice. I'd like to see you there.
Speaker 4 (05:06):
It's a fun game. Thanks. Yeah, I look forward to it, hopefully.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
I would just I mean, you know, so much of
Traders is about like the style and the fashions, and
what you're known for is your style and fashions sands clothes.
So I decided to see, like what you'd be. You'd
be dawning in the right. What are they going to
do with me?
Speaker 4 (05:26):
Well, the microphone in that in the buff, in that buff,
that thing we had to wear.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Let's let's talk about let's talk about Survivor.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Obviously, on the first season, you know, the show was
much different. I'm wondering what your opinion is now with
the evolution of what this show looks like, it's gone
away from its intended theme. Do you think that these
these players now have it too cushy to what you had?
What's your thoughts just overall with the survivor landscape.
Speaker 4 (06:04):
So I've got a big couple of big thoughts with
respect to that. So people often ask me about comparing seasons,
and the truth is it doesn't matter. Yeah, it was
really hard, and ours looked hard in the first season,
but every person who goes out there and who hasn't
been out there before it's their first season, they're not
comparing it to another one. And it's hard as hell.
(06:27):
You know, rats get caught in women's hair and the
bugs are biting them, Dolorus. You just keep telling yourself
it's a million bucks, it's a million bucks. You just
repeat it over.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, Jesus God, oh no food.
Speaker 4 (06:42):
You know, you don't care about these people. You got
to get rid of them. You make friends with them later.
But yeah, it's a very very tough game. So I
tend not to compare the two, like, hey, my season
compared to what's happening now, But there are things happening
now that are different. I think that affect viewers and
the game. I think like last night's season, for example,
(07:05):
all that stuff with Kyle, you know, fifty seasons and
they're still crying and oh, you go ahead and you
all win and I want you guys to do this
and I love you, and oh, shut the hell up.
You just met these people three days ago. What the
(07:26):
hell are you talking about? And that's what people get.
It's so hard. You get out there and you start
relying on these other people. You lose sight of focus.
Even these people who played the game before aren't playing well.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
So you can't say, Richard, you can't be soft.
Speaker 4 (07:43):
Well you can, I'm soft, I'm sentimental.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
Well, let me ask you this, you know, because we've
both been we've all been on a lot of reality
TV in the past, and you were on the first one.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
So I feel like.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
People maybe didn't know how to go about doing reality TV.
But now we're fifty seasons in the Survivor. I've done,
you know, ten seasons of Bachelor in Paradise, Dolores done,
god knows many how many episodes of Housewives, And I
wonder if the thing that annoys you about, like the
Kyle of it all where everyone's crying. They've known each
other for three days. But there's a part of the
(08:19):
situation where the participant knows they want to make good
TV in compared to in the past, and it was like,
you're just trying to like not die out there on
the beach.
Speaker 4 (08:32):
Yeah, so you're trying to not die and you still
want to make good TV. And I guess you know,
well's I think you're right, they're trying to do that now.
But I still I would give them credit. For example,
if I sensed that what they were doing and the
way they talked to the camera when they were being
interviewed away from other contestants was intentional, But I know
(08:54):
what about you last night? That wasn't intentional. Those people
were just bawling and was emotional so many times, not
just with Kyle and his leaving, but with in so
many instances it was all about you know, how about coach?
You know, and they're getting upset about this and angry
about that, and you know he cheated what by pulling
(09:18):
the key during the during the challenge?
Speaker 3 (09:21):
No, he just want it.
Speaker 4 (09:23):
He just want it, you know, And what's he supposed
to do? Say yeah, I'm not going to get it.
You go. If you knock it off, I'll let you
get that's just stupid.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
I'm wondering who you're rooting for in this season, Rich, So.
Speaker 4 (09:36):
I don't tend. I tend not to do that. Well,
So I don't want to. I don't want to focus
on somebody. And and and you know, think about Oh,
I want you to win. I want to see who
plays best. I oftentimes I know them all now, but
oftentimes I don't know the names until after the merge
get rid of a lot of them. There's too many
(09:56):
to follow, and this time twenty four. So for me,
I'm not necessarily rooting for somebody particular. But for example,
Kyle and Camilla I think have played a better game
of Survivor than many ever, maybe ever in their season.
And so Kyle's gone now, and I've got to watch
and root a little bit for Camilla because I think
(10:20):
they get it even fifty seasons in so few people
of the participants, so few of the participants get the game,
get out with outlast outplay, use it focus, you know.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
And I think Camilla, to me is underestimated very much.
Speaker 4 (10:38):
So for sure, you know, And and you would think
maybe they would be smart enough not to underestimate her,
to watch how she played with Kyle in her season,
But they're not her.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
Still, Yeah, this is the difference between Traders. I'm going
to tell you, we don't know who's coming, and a
lot of us don't know the hit history behind the person.
I would have been a much different player had I
know the people I was sitting around that table with.
Thank god I didn't because I wasn't. But outside of that,
I would have played different, you know what, Like I
(11:13):
would have said, I know what she's capable of.
Speaker 4 (11:16):
Dolorus. I walked into House of Villains last year. I
didn't know New York. I'd never seen I've never seen it.
I was screwed from the get go. Yeah, knowing who
they are and having some sense of a background nothing.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
So that's how I felt at Traders. But see with this,
you know what she's Why are you underestimating this girl?
Speaker 4 (11:38):
I don't get to pay attention. They don't focus on
what other people did. I played the way you need
to play now fifty seasons ago, and people didn't watch
the season or somehow didn't pick it up. Oh, Alliances?
Is that ethical? Oh, you know.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
What, But how you had no reference?
Speaker 4 (12:00):
No? I thought it through though.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
Do you think it helped you more to have no reference?
Speaker 4 (12:05):
No? No, I think I help more now even because
I have such you know, a history of the games
to watch, but knowing nothing, still use your brain. You
got to get to the end. There's only one. These
people aren't your friends, yet they will be. I learned
early in life not to care too much what other
people think of me. I'm never going to have them
(12:27):
all love me.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
So that helped, right, That did help. So that was
my next question. What in your life prepared you to
be so good at this game?
Speaker 4 (12:38):
I think a lot of that. You know, I was
raped when I was eight, I was molested when I
was ten. My parents were divorced when I was eleven.
My brother was killed when I was fifteen. He was
still a lot of introspective challenges. Who am I? What's
this world? What's it doing to us? And so you
get to a point where you're like, okay, I'm who
I am. I'm gay in this society?
Speaker 3 (13:00):
It just to you know, yeah, no, you know, I.
Speaker 4 (13:03):
Went to West Point, I was in the army. It's
just a lot of looking inward. And I think what
Survivor does for people is it causes them when they're
watching it to be introspective. That's why it's I think,
on for fifty seasons, and so I think that's what
prepared me is just I was.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
In life in generally just what you went through and
who am I.
Speaker 4 (13:24):
You know, if you ask that as a young kid
and you learn about yourself, then you go out there
and you're prepared. Imagine if you don't know who you
are and you land on Survivor, it's not time to
there's no time to figure out who you are.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
You have to survive.
Speaker 4 (13:39):
Yeah, you need to figure know that going in.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
You learned how to survive at eight years old. Yeah, unfortunately, Yeah,
and very after that.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
Yeah, but it happens to a lot of us. And
if you take what life throws at you and you
get what you can out of it and move on,
you know, then then there are some ways to look
back without you know, all sadness.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Yeah, after hearing you know your history and your story.
I'm not sure if anyone has ever been more of
a survivor on the show Survivor than you have so
well done, you know, getting to where you are. Now
there's a part of me that's very surprised that you
weren't on this season, you know, being the winner of
(14:21):
season one, like you're very iconic. You're being referenced in
hit Hulu shows. Did they come to you? What's the deal?
Speaker 4 (14:31):
So that's the behind the scenes stuff that's pretty negative hearing.
So Mark Burnett when he started the show, the first
time I met him, he told me had a gay
couple friends of his that he really loved, and he
wanted to change America's perspective on gays. And that's part
of why I was being selected as a participant. And
then the other executive producer, Craig Poligian, said, when I
(14:54):
first met him, the day I met him, I walked in,
the first thing he said to me is what nobody
Everugh couldn't believe. That's how it started. And so their
whole goal was to present this whatever they thought, image
of a gay guy differently from how gay people might
have been perceived. But they didn't take into account how
(15:15):
that might be affected in America. And when they chose
not to pay the taxes to Malaysia that they were
required by law to have paid, and it ended and
I called the irs looking who paid what to whom?
They cut off contact with me, which ended up I
(15:35):
ended up in prison for years, still fighting, still taught
in courts. It's crazy.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
It's a crazy story.
Speaker 4 (15:43):
Attempted to attempted to evade taxes on the million dollar
winnings that I won before fifty seventy two million viewers,
that I put in my regular bank account, that I
called them to ask, Hey, who paid what to whom?
And how much do I owe the US? It's crazy,
but yeah, it's about prejudice, and it's about the way
(16:05):
I was perceived, and Burnett and Probes and the rest
of them knew it. And so while I was going
through this, help Mark, I mean, Jeff probsed made comments
on air and I would call them and say, look,
that's crap. You know, you're talking to people about me
and the tax issue as if you know something about
what's going on, call me if you want to know it.
(16:25):
So he corrected it on air once, but he kept
doing it. So I've kept calling them out so that
there's a rift between them and me, and they've never
stepped in to even learn what happened or what's going
on or taken responsibility for what they did with respect
to not paying Malaysia.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
I love that there's a bunch of heterosexual guys that
think they know how to tell the story of a
homosexual man's life like that, not for nothing.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
It just kind of pisses me off a little bit
to hear that.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
Yeah, Rich, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. How to go through that?
Speaker 4 (16:57):
Thanks? You know, like life with everybody, we have our
ups and downs, and that was a challenge. Survivor's been
amazing for me. I love the game, but really it's
destroyed my life on another level. I was married fourteen
years and divorced because he couldn't deal with this continuing
legal battle still going on. Oh my god, you know
all kinds of crazy stuff.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
But and so is that all behind you now?
Speaker 1 (17:19):
Or are you still having to march through the bog
of this ridiculous thing happened.
Speaker 4 (17:25):
The motion that I'm writing today.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
Oh no, it's still going.
Speaker 4 (17:30):
They're still They're now trying to steal my sister's home
that she bought the year before I went on Survivor,
claiming that was somehow a scheme for me to hide
the million. Oh you can't tell me. I'm trying to
evade taxes when I'm going to the irs asking you
what do we do? Yeah, so they just turned it around,
and again people don't understand this based on bias, based
(17:55):
on prejudice. People this gay naked atheist in two thousirs
before seventy two million viewers. That's when Matthew Shephard was killed.
That's when Ellen DeGeneres was fired. That you know, we
weren't allowed to marry, we weren't equal citizens. It was
a really, really rough time. And so everything from that
(18:15):
point on to now has built on the prejudices that
drove this case.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
In where it is. Yeah. Yeah, well that's terrible because
you would think for everything, you've probably spent more on
time and legal than you've won.
Speaker 4 (18:31):
Couldn't even imagine. Yeah, now there's.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
No price to all that you've lost over this. Yes,
it's a massive amount of money, but it's still not
for them to do this to you.
Speaker 4 (18:42):
Yeah, No, it's not fair. I mean if I'd done
something great, but you know, I made an error in
my tax return and called them to ask how how
do we what is it? How should we do it? Anyway?
Speaker 1 (18:55):
Well, that's one of those kind of no good deed
goes unpunished situations that just lingering.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
Richard. I'm sorry you had to go through that.
Speaker 4 (19:02):
Thanks. All right.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
This wraps up part one of our interview with Survivor
season one winner Richard Hatch. Make sure to tune in
for our recap of Survivor season fifty premiere with Richard,
airing today later at twelve pm Pacific. In the meantime,
you can follow us on Instagram at by Order of
the Faithfuls and subscribe to By Order the Faithfuls wherever
(19:26):
you get your podcasts. We'll be recapping Survivor episodes each
week alongside some of your favorite players, so you do
not want to miss it.
Welcome in all you Faithfuls and Traders to another episode
of By Order of the Faithfuls. But today we will
not be talking about.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
The show Traders.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
We're gonna be talking about well, one of the iconic
reality TV shows of the last thirty years. That's right,
we will be recapping season fifty of Survivor, where the
fans have decided what's going to be going on this season.
It's gonna be a lot of fun. Dolores and I
will be walking you through every single episode. But I
(00:30):
gotta be honest with you. I'm very excited as someone
who works in reality TV and kind of knows the
juggernauts of the shows we have on our show today.
Arguably the first big reality TV star in Richard Hatch.
He was a first ever Survivor when you're earning the
title Soul Survivor in Survivor Borneo, he that are competed
(00:52):
on Survivor All Stars as well. While known for his
arrogance and well a lot of nudity and remarkable phishing skills,
Richard is best known for creating the series first ever alliance,
which helped define Survivor gameplay as the strategy became a
template for how the game we played. In subsequent years,
he is now a pop culture icon, being referenced in
(01:14):
the newest season of Hulu's Paradise. We're talking about that
in just a bit, but please welcome to, by order
of the Faithful's Survivor edition, Richard Hatch.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
Hi, Richard, Hi, the Lord sweetheart. How are you.
Speaker 4 (01:29):
I'm well, thanks, I've watched you for a long time.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Ah, thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Wait, Richard, are you not familiar with my work? How
else is hurtful? Thank you so much for conan on
the show. You are, you know, a legend in reality TV,
so much so that I don't know Richard, if you
saw this, but there's a show on Hulu that I'm
obsessed with called Paradise. Not Bachelor in Paradise, uh, just Paradise.
(01:55):
And you are referenced in this show. And I have
actually this script here. It says Geier says, so let's
not make it make it out like you were Richard
Hatch or something. Richard Hatches dot dot dot Yeah, I
know he won the first season or Survivor chef saying,
oh you're saying nice.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
I mean that's.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Pretty cool that like you were that much part of
the reality TV ze.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
Guys Still Being Awesome season season two, episode one.
Speaker 4 (02:23):
I haven't seen it yet because I'm still on season one. Yeah.
I love Paradise, but uh, I'll get there. But boy
have I've been getting a lot of notifications that they
referenced me.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Ah well, that the show is so good.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
And when I I was watching the first three episodes
right when it came out, so I'm obsessed with it.
And I saw that and I was like, oh my god,
I think he's gonna be on the show. This is
this is amazing, and it's it's it's got to feel
very cool. And so when you when you do get
to that point, d m us and tell us how
you feel, because it's got to feel pretty cool.
Speaker 4 (02:55):
Yeah. No, it's fun when when things like that pop up,
or on Jeopardy. Yeah, I pop on Jeopardy every now
and then what.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
You've experienced to be the first of so many seasons
and it's like it's like a whole phenomenon a culture.
It's do you think it's kind of like what Traders
is becoming now or what do you think?
Speaker 4 (03:16):
Yeah? So, I mean we were the first on any
major network, the first what they call reality show, unscripted drama,
and everything kind of arose from that. There were some
things like Real World, but it was on cable and
so this was the first My season was seventy four million,
seventy two million viewers.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
That's crazy. I mean the reference I want to let
you know, like numbers those crazy. I think the highest
Housewives got back in the day was what eight or something.
Now we're getting like to to and change two to
three million. It's I mean, but what you're talking about
is like exciting. It was exciting. It was new for
(03:57):
people and.
Speaker 4 (03:58):
A crazy phenomenon. But it's been a wild, wild ride.
And the game itself Survivor that we'll be talking about
is awesome. You know the people behind the scenes, we
can go there too.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
We want to go there. Oh, no, Red Shirt, I
want to know the inside scoop.
Speaker 4 (04:16):
Yeah, well, I mean it's they're pretty awful. So Lauris,
when the hell am I going to be on Traders?
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (04:22):
You should have been already.
Speaker 4 (04:23):
I mean, the thing is made for me.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Richard.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
You you will be on Wells, don't you think so?
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Dina CAATs, if you're listening to this, who does the
cast for that get Richard on.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
But here's the thing, Richard, I feel.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Like if I was in in that roundtable, i'd want
to get you out because you would scare me in
that show.
Speaker 4 (04:43):
Yeah, but we're not there in person, and I haven't.
I haven't, I haven't wielded my wiles yet.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
Yeah that maybe, you know, I think that you would
be too much of a thread off the bat.
Speaker 4 (04:56):
You know, they were lots of people waste approach it.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Yeah, you know, it is.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
A different game. Though, it is a different game, so
it's nice. I'd like to see you there.
Speaker 4 (05:06):
It's a fun game. Thanks. Yeah, I look forward to it, hopefully.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
I would just I mean, you know, so much of
Traders is about like the style and the fashions, and
what you're known for is your style and fashions sands clothes.
So I decided to see, like what you'd be. You'd
be dawning in the right. What are they going to
do with me?
Speaker 4 (05:26):
Well, the microphone in that in the buff, in that buff,
that thing we had to wear.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Let's let's talk about let's talk about Survivor.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Obviously, on the first season, you know, the show was
much different. I'm wondering what your opinion is now with
the evolution of what this show looks like, it's gone
away from its intended theme. Do you think that these
these players now have it too cushy to what you had?
What's your thoughts just overall with the survivor landscape.
Speaker 4 (06:04):
So I've got a big couple of big thoughts with
respect to that. So people often ask me about comparing seasons,
and the truth is it doesn't matter. Yeah, it was
really hard, and ours looked hard in the first season,
but every person who goes out there and who hasn't
been out there before it's their first season, they're not
comparing it to another one. And it's hard as hell.
(06:27):
You know, rats get caught in women's hair and the
bugs are biting them, Dolorus. You just keep telling yourself
it's a million bucks, it's a million bucks. You just
repeat it over.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, Jesus God, oh no food.
Speaker 4 (06:42):
You know, you don't care about these people. You got
to get rid of them. You make friends with them later.
But yeah, it's a very very tough game. So I
tend not to compare the two, like, hey, my season
compared to what's happening now, But there are things happening
now that are different. I think that affect viewers and
the game. I think like last night's season, for example,
(07:05):
all that stuff with Kyle, you know, fifty seasons and
they're still crying and oh, you go ahead and you
all win and I want you guys to do this
and I love you, and oh, shut the hell up.
You just met these people three days ago. What the
(07:26):
hell are you talking about? And that's what people get.
It's so hard. You get out there and you start
relying on these other people. You lose sight of focus.
Even these people who played the game before aren't playing well.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
So you can't say, Richard, you can't be soft.
Speaker 4 (07:43):
Well you can, I'm soft, I'm sentimental.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
Well, let me ask you this, you know, because we've
both been we've all been on a lot of reality
TV in the past, and you were on the first one.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
So I feel like.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
People maybe didn't know how to go about doing reality TV.
But now we're fifty seasons in the Survivor. I've done,
you know, ten seasons of Bachelor in Paradise, Dolores done,
god knows many how many episodes of Housewives, And I
wonder if the thing that annoys you about, like the
Kyle of it all where everyone's crying. They've known each
other for three days. But there's a part of the
(08:19):
situation where the participant knows they want to make good
TV in compared to in the past, and it was like,
you're just trying to like not die out there on
the beach.
Speaker 4 (08:32):
Yeah, so you're trying to not die and you still
want to make good TV. And I guess you know,
well's I think you're right, they're trying to do that now.
But I still I would give them credit. For example,
if I sensed that what they were doing and the
way they talked to the camera when they were being
interviewed away from other contestants was intentional, But I know
(08:54):
what about you last night? That wasn't intentional. Those people
were just bawling and was emotional so many times, not
just with Kyle and his leaving, but with in so
many instances it was all about you know, how about coach?
You know, and they're getting upset about this and angry
about that, and you know he cheated what by pulling
(09:18):
the key during the during the challenge?
Speaker 3 (09:21):
No, he just want it.
Speaker 4 (09:23):
He just want it, you know, And what's he supposed
to do? Say yeah, I'm not going to get it.
You go. If you knock it off, I'll let you
get that's just stupid.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
I'm wondering who you're rooting for in this season, Rich, So.
Speaker 4 (09:36):
I don't tend. I tend not to do that. Well,
So I don't want to. I don't want to focus
on somebody. And and and you know, think about Oh,
I want you to win. I want to see who
plays best. I oftentimes I know them all now, but
oftentimes I don't know the names until after the merge
get rid of a lot of them. There's too many
(09:56):
to follow, and this time twenty four. So for me,
I'm not necessarily rooting for somebody particular. But for example,
Kyle and Camilla I think have played a better game
of Survivor than many ever, maybe ever in their season.
And so Kyle's gone now, and I've got to watch
and root a little bit for Camilla because I think
(10:20):
they get it even fifty seasons in so few people
of the participants, so few of the participants get the game,
get out with outlast outplay, use it focus, you know.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
And I think Camilla, to me is underestimated very much.
Speaker 4 (10:38):
So for sure, you know, And and you would think
maybe they would be smart enough not to underestimate her,
to watch how she played with Kyle in her season,
But they're not her.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
Still, Yeah, this is the difference between Traders. I'm going
to tell you, we don't know who's coming, and a
lot of us don't know the hit history behind the person.
I would have been a much different player had I
know the people I was sitting around that table with.
Thank god I didn't because I wasn't. But outside of that,
I would have played different, you know what, Like I
(11:13):
would have said, I know what she's capable of.
Speaker 4 (11:16):
Dolorus. I walked into House of Villains last year. I
didn't know New York. I'd never seen I've never seen it.
I was screwed from the get go. Yeah, knowing who
they are and having some sense of a background nothing.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
So that's how I felt at Traders. But see with this,
you know what she's Why are you underestimating this girl?
Speaker 4 (11:38):
I don't get to pay attention. They don't focus on
what other people did. I played the way you need
to play now fifty seasons ago, and people didn't watch
the season or somehow didn't pick it up. Oh, Alliances?
Is that ethical? Oh, you know.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
What, But how you had no reference?
Speaker 4 (12:00):
No? I thought it through though.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
Do you think it helped you more to have no reference?
Speaker 4 (12:05):
No? No, I think I help more now even because
I have such you know, a history of the games
to watch, but knowing nothing, still use your brain. You
got to get to the end. There's only one. These
people aren't your friends, yet they will be. I learned
early in life not to care too much what other
people think of me. I'm never going to have them
(12:27):
all love me.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
So that helped, right, That did help. So that was
my next question. What in your life prepared you to
be so good at this game?
Speaker 4 (12:38):
I think a lot of that. You know, I was
raped when I was eight, I was molested when I
was ten. My parents were divorced when I was eleven.
My brother was killed when I was fifteen. He was
still a lot of introspective challenges. Who am I? What's
this world? What's it doing to us? And so you
get to a point where you're like, okay, I'm who
I am. I'm gay in this society?
Speaker 3 (13:00):
It just to you know, yeah, no, you know, I.
Speaker 4 (13:03):
Went to West Point, I was in the army. It's
just a lot of looking inward. And I think what
Survivor does for people is it causes them when they're
watching it to be introspective. That's why it's I think,
on for fifty seasons, and so I think that's what
prepared me is just I was.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
In life in generally just what you went through and
who am I.
Speaker 4 (13:24):
You know, if you ask that as a young kid
and you learn about yourself, then you go out there
and you're prepared. Imagine if you don't know who you
are and you land on Survivor, it's not time to
there's no time to figure out who you are.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
You have to survive.
Speaker 4 (13:39):
Yeah, you need to figure know that going in.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
You learned how to survive at eight years old. Yeah, unfortunately, Yeah,
and very after that.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
Yeah, but it happens to a lot of us. And
if you take what life throws at you and you
get what you can out of it and move on,
you know, then then there are some ways to look
back without you know, all sadness.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Yeah, after hearing you know your history and your story.
I'm not sure if anyone has ever been more of
a survivor on the show Survivor than you have so
well done, you know, getting to where you are. Now
there's a part of me that's very surprised that you
weren't on this season, you know, being the winner of
(14:21):
season one, like you're very iconic. You're being referenced in
hit Hulu shows. Did they come to you? What's the deal?
Speaker 4 (14:31):
So that's the behind the scenes stuff that's pretty negative hearing.
So Mark Burnett when he started the show, the first
time I met him, he told me had a gay
couple friends of his that he really loved, and he
wanted to change America's perspective on gays. And that's part
of why I was being selected as a participant. And
then the other executive producer, Craig Poligian, said, when I
(14:54):
first met him, the day I met him, I walked in,
the first thing he said to me is what nobody
Everugh couldn't believe. That's how it started. And so their
whole goal was to present this whatever they thought, image
of a gay guy differently from how gay people might
have been perceived. But they didn't take into account how
(15:15):
that might be affected in America. And when they chose
not to pay the taxes to Malaysia that they were
required by law to have paid, and it ended and
I called the irs looking who paid what to whom?
They cut off contact with me, which ended up I
(15:35):
ended up in prison for years, still fighting, still taught
in courts. It's crazy.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
It's a crazy story.
Speaker 4 (15:43):
Attempted to attempted to evade taxes on the million dollar
winnings that I won before fifty seventy two million viewers,
that I put in my regular bank account, that I
called them to ask, Hey, who paid what to whom?
And how much do I owe the US? It's crazy,
but yeah, it's about prejudice, and it's about the way
(16:05):
I was perceived, and Burnett and Probes and the rest
of them knew it. And so while I was going
through this, help Mark, I mean, Jeff probsed made comments
on air and I would call them and say, look,
that's crap. You know, you're talking to people about me
and the tax issue as if you know something about
what's going on, call me if you want to know it.
(16:25):
So he corrected it on air once, but he kept
doing it. So I've kept calling them out so that
there's a rift between them and me, and they've never
stepped in to even learn what happened or what's going
on or taken responsibility for what they did with respect
to not paying Malaysia.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
I love that there's a bunch of heterosexual guys that
think they know how to tell the story of a
homosexual man's life like that, not for nothing.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
It just kind of pisses me off a little bit
to hear that.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
Yeah, Rich, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. How to go through that?
Speaker 4 (16:57):
Thanks? You know, like life with everybody, we have our
ups and downs, and that was a challenge. Survivor's been
amazing for me. I love the game, but really it's
destroyed my life on another level. I was married fourteen
years and divorced because he couldn't deal with this continuing
legal battle still going on. Oh my god, you know
all kinds of crazy stuff.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
But and so is that all behind you now?
Speaker 1 (17:19):
Or are you still having to march through the bog
of this ridiculous thing happened.
Speaker 4 (17:25):
The motion that I'm writing today.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
Oh no, it's still going.
Speaker 4 (17:30):
They're still They're now trying to steal my sister's home
that she bought the year before I went on Survivor,
claiming that was somehow a scheme for me to hide
the million. Oh you can't tell me. I'm trying to
evade taxes when I'm going to the irs asking you
what do we do? Yeah, so they just turned it around,
and again people don't understand this based on bias, based
(17:55):
on prejudice. People this gay naked atheist in two thousirs
before seventy two million viewers. That's when Matthew Shephard was killed.
That's when Ellen DeGeneres was fired. That you know, we
weren't allowed to marry, we weren't equal citizens. It was
a really, really rough time. And so everything from that
(18:15):
point on to now has built on the prejudices that
drove this case.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
In where it is. Yeah. Yeah, well that's terrible because
you would think for everything, you've probably spent more on
time and legal than you've won.
Speaker 4 (18:31):
Couldn't even imagine. Yeah, now there's.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
No price to all that you've lost over this. Yes,
it's a massive amount of money, but it's still not
for them to do this to you.
Speaker 4 (18:42):
Yeah, No, it's not fair. I mean if I'd done
something great, but you know, I made an error in
my tax return and called them to ask how how
do we what is it? How should we do it? Anyway?
Speaker 1 (18:55):
Well, that's one of those kind of no good deed
goes unpunished situations that just lingering.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
Richard. I'm sorry you had to go through that.
Speaker 4 (19:02):
Thanks. All right.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
This wraps up part one of our interview with Survivor
season one winner Richard Hatch. Make sure to tune in
for our recap of Survivor season fifty premiere with Richard,
airing today later at twelve pm Pacific. In the meantime,
you can follow us on Instagram at by Order of
the Faithfuls and subscribe to By Order the Faithfuls wherever
(19:26):
you get your podcasts. We'll be recapping Survivor episodes each
week alongside some of your favorite players, so you do
not want to miss it.
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