March 6, 2026 • 21 mins
Wells and Dolores are joined by Survivor fan favorite, Stephen Fishbach! When you’re voted into your second season by over 10 million fans AND you’re featured as one of People’s “sexiest bachelors” in 2009, where do you go from there?!
Well, today, we’re asking Stephen some hard-hitting questions… For example, how do you go to the bathroom in a remote jungle?!
Plus, how hands-on is the Survivor production team? Why is everyone in a weird pose during their one-on-one interviews? Where can we get our hands on Stephen’s Survivor-inspired book?
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Listen
Watch
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
We welcome in all you Faithfuls, Traders and survivors in
their episode of By Order of the Faithfuls. Well's Adams
here alongside Dolores Catania. We are in episode two of Survivor. Dolores,
how are you liking the show so far?
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Well, there's a lot of crazy things going on. People
hoop their pants this time. I give them so much credit,
you know, I'm just overwhelmed with everything that's going on.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
I could not do it. I absolutely, I have a
lot of respect for them doing it.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Yeah, and then you know, they're doing really extreme physical
things on this show. But and nothing against anybody. I'm
not in shape, but a lot of people are not
athletic here.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
It doesn't seem to me.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
There's a few, but not everybody looks like they're running marathons.
We have a very you know, diverse cast, physically diverse cast.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
You wouldn't want to do it. I was watching last
night talking to my wife and she's like, how's it going.
I watched you know, Survivor since like the first season,
and I was like, you know, I really like this
show and I feel like I would do really well
on it. And then she retorted with it's all a
political game, and you got kicked out of Traders on
the second episode. You'd be terrible at this, and I said, well,
(01:21):
hold on, I didn't really get a fair shake too.
I do think that I'm really good at like I'm
I'm really good at camping, I'm good at like being
out in the elements. I'm good at fishing and hunting,
and I wouldn't have a problem like sleeping on the beach.
I think I could do it. I don't know. Should
(01:41):
I apply for this show?
Speaker 2 (01:43):
One hundred percent? I think you could do it. I
think this is this This is very Traders like the show.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
You know at the end when they vote somebody out.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
I mean the games though, they're they're vicious, they're going
through people's bags.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
Oh yeah, not see.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Had I been more familiar with this game play, I've
watched a few season a few episodes.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
Over the years, but I didn't get into it.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
But now I'm getting into it, I would have handled
the Survivors players very different.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
I would have never believed.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Danielle or Carolyn on Traders.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
You're saying on Traders, Yeah, had I watched this this
if you're thinking of going on Traders.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
Anybody watch this first.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Yeah, one hundred percent agree, and probably watch Big Brother too,
because yeah, they are exactly Yeah, they are cutthroat and yeah,
there are no holds barred. I'm excited about today's show.
We're going to have one of the legends from Survivor
on in, Stephen Fishback. He's a Pushcart Prize winning writer
and former television executive. A two time Survivor contested voted
(02:50):
on the show the second time by more than ten
million fans. He finished as runner up on his first
season and finished in ninth place on his second season.
In two thousand and nine, he is named one of
People Magazine's Hottest Bachelors. So lady even Yeah. He now
lives in Washington, d C. With his wife and two daughters.
Fortunately he's off the market, ladies. Steven published a fictional
(03:12):
novel last month called Escape, which follows it has been
reality TV star that gets a little close to home
and it is a great producer who yeah, yeah, yeah,
who gets one last shot at redemption on his show
set on a remote island. Obviously influenced by his time
on Survivor, Stephen, Welcome to by order of the Faithful
Survivor Edition. Steven, how are you, buddy.
Speaker 4 (03:34):
I'm great. I'm so thrilled to be here chatting with
you guys. This is wild.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
We're so happy to have you and thanks for your time.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
I mean, I know you're really busy writing books and
being the hottest bachelor and People magazine of two thousand
and nine. I mean, that makes you busy, but we
know you're off the market now.
Speaker 4 (03:50):
A lot has happened since two thousand and nine. Yeah,
and even then there was really some questions, don't I
think that ballot was a little bit of a question. Well,
I think we have. Yeah, it was.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
It was like you and Leonardo Dicamprio, George Clooney and
Stephen Fishback.
Speaker 4 (04:05):
Yeah, it was a bad year, only they had forty
five and then they were like, how do we fill
this out with just.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
That We'll own it.
Speaker 4 (04:13):
To be clear, I was dressed up as as Gilligan
in that episode of People, so it was not exactly
my hottest moments, Fanny.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
That is hysterical.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Well, hey, you were you were on an island, and
you were deserted on a deserted island.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
But it did very well.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
One day on that island Stephen, I'm out, and and
we're excited about the new book. I can't wait to
I want to signed copy.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
I'm going to say it's way all right, all right, cool?
Speaker 4 (04:40):
Yeah, we were.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
We were talking about it before we started the show,
you know, you know, you kind of downplayed it, like, oh,
I was just runner up and then I got ninth.
But you were voted by ten million fans to rejoin
the Survivor cast and your second opportunity on the beach.
That must have felt really cool to have that many
people behind you.
Speaker 4 (04:59):
It really, it was awesome, I mean, and honestly, part
of the reason I went was because it was a
fan vote, Like to me, that seemed just cool to
be a part of it. And if it happened, you know,
I would be able to be talking about it a
decade later and say like, oh, the fans voted me,
and how cool is that? So I was not looking
back looking to go back to Survivor. But when it
did turn out to be a fan vote, I just
thought it would be a really neat thing to have
that opportunity. It ended up being a totally disastrous season
(05:20):
for me. For what it's worth, it.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Does it's Okay, it still makes good TV, and your
fans are savage, like they love you one.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
Second and then the next minute you could fall from
grace for nothing.
Speaker 4 (05:34):
Well, it does seem like the Internet generally is is
that way. But I actually feel weirdly the Survivor audience
is like really like lovely and kind for the most part,
you know, and like they see the nuance and like
the best of people and honestly like as like an
you know, in terms of like general Internet toxicity, I
feel like they're actually sort of like the cream of
the crop, not like.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Trying to destroy your life.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Yeah, dors, what are you talking about? You're on Real
housew wash like that.
Speaker 4 (05:58):
That base.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Is all like yeah, it's just but you know, I
just I would want to keep everybody.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
I don't want to vote anybody out. You know.
Speaker 4 (06:10):
Well you guys, you guys were executing, you know, you
were you know, banishing and killing.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
It's a hard thing to do. Yeah, it really is.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
So Survivor fifty, we're in the second episode. Are you offended?
You weren't You weren't invited on this season? Or were you?
And did you turn it down?
Speaker 4 (06:27):
I was not invited and I made it very clear
to them that like I was not looking to go back.
So like that's what I tell myself is the reason
they didn't invite me. But also they've got a lot
like since I was on, you know, ten years ago,
there's been a lot of you know, skinny strategy nerds,
so they've they've got a really information ye saw, there's
some great nerds this season, you know, with Christian in
(06:48):
this last episode pants well, I took my pants off,
but I did have a stomach issue. Yeah. In fact,
Christian's confessional about it, where he mentions gastro intestinal distress
was a reference to my confessional And I really am
the right person to talk about about this episode. But
like I've sort of touched by his beautiful homage to
(07:10):
one of my finest moments.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
Oh, I love it.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Well, you have a lot of I feel like even
in in uh, we have a lot of survivor references
in movies and things like that, don't we.
Speaker 4 (07:21):
Yeah, it's really such a cultural you know, touchdown in
these days.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
I think, can we go back to him shooting his pants?
I have so many questions about like the logistics of
like how this all works.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
He does Okay.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
So are you guys. Are you guys pooping in the ocean?
Are you digging cat holes in the beach or is
there a portage on that they say, don't talk about
because we don't want people to know about it for
just like health reasons. What's happening in the bathroom sector
of Survivor.
Speaker 4 (07:57):
This is great. I'm so truly happy to be talking
about this. It's really it really is a really interesting subting.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
Because I want to know, like people want to know.
Speaker 4 (08:06):
When there so now Survivor only films on a beach, right,
And actually the ocean is a relatively antiseptic place to poop,
and I think most people will go in the ocean
and poop, you know, simply because of like the saltwater
is salientated. There is purel like in your med kid,
there's purel. So after you poop, you know, you go
(08:27):
and you know, purell your hands, but you know you
also like wipe off in like with with the silts
of the ocean, you know, just to like sort of
this is really getting quite graphic quite fast, but you
know it's important. So and then you know, there there
was one time when Monica for my second season and
I both were sort of like pooping at the same time,
(08:49):
and we just made clear to steer, you know, be
far enough away that we each had our own personal space,
you know within that.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
Do you guys have like a portion of the beach
where you're like, okay, down there is where the toilet is,
but not here because we fish over here.
Speaker 4 (09:04):
Yeah, you don't want to be where you know things
are going to wash up on shore. I think, yeah,
that's what concern But back in the day, so my
first season, I was not on an island. I was
in Brazil, so like, you know, we didn't want to
poop in the river, which was actually you know, a
little bit less antiseptic, I guess than the ocean. I
honestly do not have a medical degree, so like, please
don't take any of this as you.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
Know, it makes sense though it makes sense.
Speaker 4 (09:26):
Yeah, So we would dig holes and we did have
sort of like a portion of our kind of area,
like that's what we call the douceeteria where you went
and pooped and you'd use leaves to you know, wipe yourself.
And the leaves were actually like lovely, like if I
I think someone could make a fortune, and like leaf
toilet paper. It was like there was soft it was you.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
Know, what are we given enough for pata?
Speaker 2 (09:50):
I mean, I mean Dede was actually talking about that,
I believe in the first episode how.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
You w leaves.
Speaker 4 (09:56):
Yeah, and it's great, it's very they're they're wonderful. Yeah,
but do people.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
Get sick a lot there? Because I mean, yeah, sure
you have pure al and stuff, but I imagine you're
just not as clean as you normally would be. And
I could see people getting like stomach bugs and getting
like knocked out for those reasons.
Speaker 4 (10:13):
Well, honestly, because it is sort of a closed environment,
you're not getting like you know.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
The flu flu.
Speaker 4 (10:18):
Yeah, exactly, you're cold. I mean people get staff infections
when we've seen a lot of people get metavacked with
staff infections over the years. I think the bigger issue
is like stomach things just from like ambient environmental stressors.
Like I think with Christian the issue was probably they
were eating a lot of coconuts, and coconuts are a
laxative and so if you're like only eating coconuts, you know,
(10:40):
you lose you lose some control. But you know, there's
also issues with like hydration, Like weirdly, if you're not
getting enough hydration, right, you can get stomach sick. And
so there's just like you know, if you're eating kind
of like yeah, like food that's like maybe not perfectly preserved,
you could not feel so great in your stomach. So
and you saw that some of these people are drinking
sour coke.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
Christian is not doing that.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
I wanted to ask you about that. I was like, well,
surely this is going to give you guys diarrhea if
you're drinking like it's moldy coconut milk.
Speaker 4 (11:10):
Yeah. I think that I trust Christian as a scientist
that you know, to be fair, he's a robotic so
he's not a coconut scientist. But I do think that
he knows better than to drink a sour coconut if
it's sour, like that's your body saying like.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
No, yeah, right, fair enough.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
But one girl is like this tastes good. I like
this tastes like exactly. Going back to this cast, you know,
are you surprised that some of the biggest names aren't there,
Like Boston Rob's not there, Sandra Tony, Harby Harvedy, Like,
are you surprised that those guys aren't there?
Speaker 4 (11:44):
I mean in some ways, I think it's good because
they're such icons and you do sort of want to give,
you know, to see new things and to see new players,
and you know, I feel like when they're there and
I'm you know, I think for maybe more casual fans,
they want to see the big names, and that's how
I probably would feel, you know, for the shows that
I I'm a casual fan of, Like I love to
watch The Challenge and I you know, I want Wes
on the screen, you know, I want to see CT again. Yeah,
(12:07):
But for me because I think I'm like deep in it,
Like it's fun to see new players get the chance
to shine, which maybe it would be harder to do
when they're so in the shadow of somebody else. I mean,
Suri is one of the legends of the game, and
you just see her like running circles around these people,
you know, and like, we only want like one or
two sores on the cast, you know, to like, but like,
you just see how completely dominant she is. She's always
(12:29):
been one of the best, and she also has years
and years of experience.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
You brought up the Challenges show that I love a
lot too, and one of the things they do on
the challenge is the veterans usually always kind of go
after the newbies. Is that something that happens in Survivor
a lot, even if it's not like unspoken.
Speaker 4 (12:46):
Yeah, I mean I think what's interesting about Survivor and
that that's not the case for the challenges. First of all,
I think everyone's a little more strategic on Survivor. Yeah,
so like the new players on the challenge are like
they're just like wide eyed sheep, you know, they're like,
what's going on around me? How you they? But I
do think people on Survivor are a little savvier and
because there are you know, fewer of those old schoolers.
(13:07):
But you know, I think those bonds also run deep.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
You know.
Speaker 4 (13:09):
You see that Suri and Ozzy are just have a
bond from having played for decades together, like literally decades.
And it's funny to me that, you know, three of
my real life best friends on this cast are Rick Devins,
Christian and Emily Flippin, and somehow they don't see that,
you know, they think Surri is their buddy and they're like,
should we vote out Ozzy? And She's like no. And
(13:33):
I think that was really interesting the fact that you
lose sight of everybody's history when you're out there and
you think it's this little self contained bubble, but it's
really not. And these relationships from outside the game really
do persist into the game. Yes, have much more Reality
TV experience than I do. Like what's your perspective, like
in terms of like how much you can see the
thing happening in front of you with all these other
(13:55):
relationships outside of it.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
I think it. I think it's hard.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
I mean, like, I've done what eight seasons, nine seasons
of Paradise, and everyone seems like its own little nucleus
of fun, you know, and so everyone bonds really well together.
So I understand like when when these tribes are you know,
like crying over someone leaving, over you know, popping an
Achilles and all the sudden, I can totally rationalize that.
(14:23):
And I think for the the viewer that hasn't been
on the show is like, this is dumb. They just
met or like they just started playing the game, so
I can. I can rationalize it a little bit.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
But the old school players are like, you can't let
emotions get in the game.
Speaker 4 (14:39):
Yeah, well it's so interesting because then there's also but
on another level, like they're also much more in some
ways emotional. I mean, we had that great scene with
like Colby and Rizzo where Colby's like, you know, you
got hard and it's not emotions, I guess, but just
like this sort of like Rizzo is like, I want
to play a game, like I don't care about you know,
all this other stuff, like I'm here to play like
the strategic game. I'm a survivor, and you know, Colby's
(15:01):
like we got a fish and hunt and be you know, survivalists.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Yeah, it's it's definitely bonding when you're in this immersed
in this thing and you have nothing else going on.
You don't have your phone, you don't have a TV,
you don't have anything.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
But what's there?
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Yeah, looking back on your seasons, is there anything that
you issue had done differently or changed them or are
you'd happy with the way you played well?
Speaker 4 (15:26):
The second time? Definitely there's something that I would have changed.
I mean, honestly, my second time, I was you know,
it's it's really emotionally challenging. I mean, as you were saying,
you know, to vote someone out, you know, is hard,
and I think that's magnified on the show, like Survivor
where you're literally relying on these people for like their
(15:48):
body heat. At night, you know, you are cuddled up
close in the shelter, it's freezing out, it's raining, you're
shivering together, you're holding onto each other, and then the
next day you're lying to each other's faces and betraying
them to mind. It is and I mean, as you
you know, and the money too on Survivor is so
transformational that you literally are destroying someone's dreams when you
(16:08):
vote the mountain, you know, you're like, you you know
this money that's going to like pay off your father's debts.
You know, Sorry, you got to go, like you have
like two moving a story. You're like, oh, you need
this for like medical treatment for your child. Well I
got to vote you out, you know. And so like
that is like a really difficult thing to do, even
as it is sort of the what you have to
do to be a part of this game.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
You know, what you sign up for. But what would
make anybody sign up for this? I mean I get
a lot of other things, yeah, even but I am
not signing up for this. But watch I'll wind up
on this show someday.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
Maybe, I don't know.
Speaker 4 (16:38):
What happens that would be great.
Speaker 3 (16:40):
I'm not what would makes someone say I want to
do this.
Speaker 4 (16:43):
I think it's the adventure. I mean, I love strategy games,
but I mean I have to say, like after that
first time, I was really like shell shocked from it
and I didn't want to do it again. And I
think I came in my second time a little bit
less open, and you see how you really have to
open yourself up to these people to have, you know,
the capacity to form alliances, right, Like alliances are like
(17:05):
friendships first, you know, you have to have those deep
emotional connections in order to build those alliances. And the
other thing that I did wrong my second time, which
I'm curious what will happen this game, is like I
had a really powerful advantage. It was a steal of vote,
and I like lost sight of the game in front
of me because I was like already projecting out like sixteps.
(17:25):
Oh here's how I'm gonna use this at the final five,
you know, so I totally like I was planning like
too far out, and then you lose sight of what's
happening right in front of you and you see some
people who have you know, I wonder if that happened
to Savannah where she has her block of vote, this advantage,
and she like was not being open with it in
a way that maybe she should have, and she loses
sight of like the the strategy that's happening right in
(17:46):
front of her.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
Tell us all about your book, Escape, Oh, thank you
so much.
Speaker 4 (17:57):
Yes, So Escape is actually based on my life, as
you know, part of this sort of reality TV universe.
It's about a forty something has been reality contestant who
goes back on his jungle theme survival show. It's it's fictional,
it is not autobiographical, and.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
This does this guy shit his pants at some point
in the book he.
Speaker 4 (18:18):
Has exactly exactly Yeah, And while there he faces off
against a manipulative producer who's sort of like going through
traumas of her own. So like, obviously I've been a
contestant on Survivor twice. I've been podcasting about this, you
know genre for decades. I would was a TV executive,
and so I wanted to kind of like capture what
it's really like to be on one of these shows
in a way that I hadn't seen before in fiction.
(18:41):
And so so far it's it's been going great.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
It was a best seller and congratulation. That's amazing. I'm
very happy for you.
Speaker 4 (18:48):
Yeah, it's been it's been an awesome ride so far.
And you know, for anybody listening, you know, if you're
interested in shows like Survivor, it might appeal to you.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
I it would appeal to me.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
I am highly dyslexic, so I listened to books on tape.
Is this on audible?
Speaker 4 (19:04):
It's got a great audiobook and it's actually won a
bunch of like audio prizes. It won like the I
don't know, the Earphones Award from Kircus or something. Oh
so yeah, and it's got a great cast. Julia Whalen,
who many people may know if they listen to audiobooks,
who like the New York are called the adele of audiobooks,
is one of the key narrators. And Sean Patrick Hopkins
is another one, and he's you know, won every award
(19:26):
out there, so it's, uh, yeah, it's a guy. It's
it's there's a multiple there's multiple narrators and it's got
great cast. So actually it's a fantastic audiobook.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Okay, that from my cardio. I have one question. Yeah,
and I mean, maybe you can answer it, maybe you can't.
It seems like, you know, sometimes producers step in in
reality shows, right, but in Traders zero produced absolute less
than zero?
Speaker 3 (19:52):
How about here did the do.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
They producers step in every once in a while at
all or there?
Speaker 4 (19:59):
Of course they're asked king interview questions. And I think
that's something that's really interesting, And that's one of the
things I explore in the book what you guys are
experienced with, like the way confessionals yeah, yeah, and the
way a question can kind of shape your thinking. But
I do think the Survivor producers, and that sounds like
the Traders' producers too, are really hands off because like
the format itself is so good, Like the format drives
the conflict. You don't need to like put your thumb
(20:19):
on the scale who.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
Decides where you do your interviews because a lot of
times people are like awkwardly sitting on a tree looking sideway,
and I'm like, why was this the angle that we
thought was good?
Speaker 4 (20:30):
That's really funny. That is absolutely something that these are
great observations. Yes, so you are sort of like led
to a place by a producer and you're like posed
there and they're like you know, it's so much of
it is about the light because you know, you're you're outside,
so it's like they've got like a bounce which reflects
the light from the sun. But you also like you know,
they're aware of the shadows. You have to be far
enough away from camp so that you can't be overheard, right,
(20:53):
and that nobody like kind of breaking off from camp
is going to stumble on you where you are, so yeah,
but they do sort of like pose you. So there
were all these life Yeah, it's so uncomfortable sometimes that's
that's really that's a very funny.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
That's the only thing so they don't get anymore because that's.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
A rough one.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
Stephen, this has been so much fun u talking with
you and getting some behind the scenes stuff and hearing
about all the stuff that you're doing, especially with your
book Escape. We are going to ask you to stick
around for our next episode where we're going to recap
the entire episode two, which would be very fun. Everyone
out there, thank you so much for listening to by
(21:34):
order of the Faithful Survivor edition, we'll be back again
with more Steven who will be recapping episode two. See
you guys,
We welcome in all you Faithfuls, Traders and survivors in
their episode of By Order of the Faithfuls. Well's Adams
here alongside Dolores Catania. We are in episode two of Survivor. Dolores,
how are you liking the show so far?
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Well, there's a lot of crazy things going on. People
hoop their pants this time. I give them so much credit,
you know, I'm just overwhelmed with everything that's going on.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
I could not do it. I absolutely, I have a
lot of respect for them doing it.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Yeah, and then you know, they're doing really extreme physical
things on this show. But and nothing against anybody. I'm
not in shape, but a lot of people are not
athletic here.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
It doesn't seem to me.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
There's a few, but not everybody looks like they're running marathons.
We have a very you know, diverse cast, physically diverse cast.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
You wouldn't want to do it. I was watching last
night talking to my wife and she's like, how's it going.
I watched you know, Survivor since like the first season,
and I was like, you know, I really like this
show and I feel like I would do really well
on it. And then she retorted with it's all a
political game, and you got kicked out of Traders on
the second episode. You'd be terrible at this, and I said, well,
(01:21):
hold on, I didn't really get a fair shake too.
I do think that I'm really good at like I'm
I'm really good at camping, I'm good at like being
out in the elements. I'm good at fishing and hunting,
and I wouldn't have a problem like sleeping on the beach.
I think I could do it. I don't know. Should
(01:41):
I apply for this show?
Speaker 2 (01:43):
One hundred percent? I think you could do it. I
think this is this This is very Traders like the show.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
You know at the end when they vote somebody out.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
I mean the games though, they're they're vicious, they're going
through people's bags.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
Oh yeah, not see.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Had I been more familiar with this game play, I've
watched a few season a few episodes.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
Over the years, but I didn't get into it.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
But now I'm getting into it, I would have handled
the Survivors players very different.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
I would have never believed.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Danielle or Carolyn on Traders.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
You're saying on Traders, Yeah, had I watched this this
if you're thinking of going on Traders.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
Anybody watch this first.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Yeah, one hundred percent agree, and probably watch Big Brother too,
because yeah, they are exactly Yeah, they are cutthroat and yeah,
there are no holds barred. I'm excited about today's show.
We're going to have one of the legends from Survivor
on in, Stephen Fishback. He's a Pushcart Prize winning writer
and former television executive. A two time Survivor contested voted
(02:50):
on the show the second time by more than ten
million fans. He finished as runner up on his first
season and finished in ninth place on his second season.
In two thousand and nine, he is named one of
People Magazine's Hottest Bachelors. So lady even Yeah. He now
lives in Washington, d C. With his wife and two daughters.
Fortunately he's off the market, ladies. Steven published a fictional
(03:12):
novel last month called Escape, which follows it has been
reality TV star that gets a little close to home
and it is a great producer who yeah, yeah, yeah,
who gets one last shot at redemption on his show
set on a remote island. Obviously influenced by his time
on Survivor, Stephen, Welcome to by order of the Faithful
Survivor Edition. Steven, how are you, buddy.
Speaker 4 (03:34):
I'm great. I'm so thrilled to be here chatting with
you guys. This is wild.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
We're so happy to have you and thanks for your time.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
I mean, I know you're really busy writing books and
being the hottest bachelor and People magazine of two thousand
and nine. I mean, that makes you busy, but we
know you're off the market now.
Speaker 4 (03:50):
A lot has happened since two thousand and nine. Yeah,
and even then there was really some questions, don't I
think that ballot was a little bit of a question. Well,
I think we have. Yeah, it was.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
It was like you and Leonardo Dicamprio, George Clooney and
Stephen Fishback.
Speaker 4 (04:05):
Yeah, it was a bad year, only they had forty
five and then they were like, how do we fill
this out with just.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
That We'll own it.
Speaker 4 (04:13):
To be clear, I was dressed up as as Gilligan
in that episode of People, so it was not exactly
my hottest moments, Fanny.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
That is hysterical.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Well, hey, you were you were on an island, and
you were deserted on a deserted island.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
But it did very well.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
One day on that island Stephen, I'm out, and and
we're excited about the new book. I can't wait to
I want to signed copy.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
I'm going to say it's way all right, all right, cool?
Speaker 4 (04:40):
Yeah, we were.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
We were talking about it before we started the show,
you know, you know, you kind of downplayed it, like, oh,
I was just runner up and then I got ninth.
But you were voted by ten million fans to rejoin
the Survivor cast and your second opportunity on the beach.
That must have felt really cool to have that many
people behind you.
Speaker 4 (04:59):
It really, it was awesome, I mean, and honestly, part
of the reason I went was because it was a
fan vote, Like to me, that seemed just cool to
be a part of it. And if it happened, you know,
I would be able to be talking about it a
decade later and say like, oh, the fans voted me,
and how cool is that? So I was not looking
back looking to go back to Survivor. But when it
did turn out to be a fan vote, I just
thought it would be a really neat thing to have
that opportunity. It ended up being a totally disastrous season
(05:20):
for me. For what it's worth, it.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Does it's Okay, it still makes good TV, and your
fans are savage, like they love you one.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
Second and then the next minute you could fall from
grace for nothing.
Speaker 4 (05:34):
Well, it does seem like the Internet generally is is
that way. But I actually feel weirdly the Survivor audience
is like really like lovely and kind for the most part,
you know, and like they see the nuance and like
the best of people and honestly like as like an
you know, in terms of like general Internet toxicity, I
feel like they're actually sort of like the cream of
the crop, not like.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Trying to destroy your life.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Yeah, dors, what are you talking about? You're on Real
housew wash like that.
Speaker 4 (05:58):
That base.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Is all like yeah, it's just but you know, I
just I would want to keep everybody.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
I don't want to vote anybody out. You know.
Speaker 4 (06:10):
Well you guys, you guys were executing, you know, you
were you know, banishing and killing.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
It's a hard thing to do. Yeah, it really is.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
So Survivor fifty, we're in the second episode. Are you offended?
You weren't You weren't invited on this season? Or were you?
And did you turn it down?
Speaker 4 (06:27):
I was not invited and I made it very clear
to them that like I was not looking to go back.
So like that's what I tell myself is the reason
they didn't invite me. But also they've got a lot
like since I was on, you know, ten years ago,
there's been a lot of you know, skinny strategy nerds,
so they've they've got a really information ye saw, there's
some great nerds this season, you know, with Christian in
(06:48):
this last episode pants well, I took my pants off,
but I did have a stomach issue. Yeah. In fact,
Christian's confessional about it, where he mentions gastro intestinal distress
was a reference to my confessional And I really am
the right person to talk about about this episode. But
like I've sort of touched by his beautiful homage to
(07:10):
one of my finest moments.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
Oh, I love it.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Well, you have a lot of I feel like even
in in uh, we have a lot of survivor references
in movies and things like that, don't we.
Speaker 4 (07:21):
Yeah, it's really such a cultural you know, touchdown in
these days.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
I think, can we go back to him shooting his pants?
I have so many questions about like the logistics of
like how this all works.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
He does Okay.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
So are you guys. Are you guys pooping in the ocean?
Are you digging cat holes in the beach or is
there a portage on that they say, don't talk about
because we don't want people to know about it for
just like health reasons. What's happening in the bathroom sector
of Survivor.
Speaker 4 (07:57):
This is great. I'm so truly happy to be talking
about this. It's really it really is a really interesting subting.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
Because I want to know, like people want to know.
Speaker 4 (08:06):
When there so now Survivor only films on a beach, right,
And actually the ocean is a relatively antiseptic place to poop,
and I think most people will go in the ocean
and poop, you know, simply because of like the saltwater
is salientated. There is purel like in your med kid,
there's purel. So after you poop, you know, you go
(08:27):
and you know, purell your hands, but you know you
also like wipe off in like with with the silts
of the ocean, you know, just to like sort of
this is really getting quite graphic quite fast, but you
know it's important. So and then you know, there there
was one time when Monica for my second season and
I both were sort of like pooping at the same time,
(08:49):
and we just made clear to steer, you know, be
far enough away that we each had our own personal space,
you know within that.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
Do you guys have like a portion of the beach
where you're like, okay, down there is where the toilet is,
but not here because we fish over here.
Speaker 4 (09:04):
Yeah, you don't want to be where you know things
are going to wash up on shore. I think, yeah,
that's what concern But back in the day, so my
first season, I was not on an island. I was
in Brazil, so like, you know, we didn't want to
poop in the river, which was actually you know, a
little bit less antiseptic, I guess than the ocean. I
honestly do not have a medical degree, so like, please
don't take any of this as you.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
Know, it makes sense though it makes sense.
Speaker 4 (09:26):
Yeah, So we would dig holes and we did have
sort of like a portion of our kind of area,
like that's what we call the douceeteria where you went
and pooped and you'd use leaves to you know, wipe yourself.
And the leaves were actually like lovely, like if I
I think someone could make a fortune, and like leaf
toilet paper. It was like there was soft it was you.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
Know, what are we given enough for pata?
Speaker 2 (09:50):
I mean, I mean Dede was actually talking about that,
I believe in the first episode how.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
You w leaves.
Speaker 4 (09:56):
Yeah, and it's great, it's very they're they're wonderful. Yeah,
but do people.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
Get sick a lot there? Because I mean, yeah, sure
you have pure al and stuff, but I imagine you're
just not as clean as you normally would be. And
I could see people getting like stomach bugs and getting
like knocked out for those reasons.
Speaker 4 (10:13):
Well, honestly, because it is sort of a closed environment,
you're not getting like you know.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
The flu flu.
Speaker 4 (10:18):
Yeah, exactly, you're cold. I mean people get staff infections
when we've seen a lot of people get metavacked with
staff infections over the years. I think the bigger issue
is like stomach things just from like ambient environmental stressors.
Like I think with Christian the issue was probably they
were eating a lot of coconuts, and coconuts are a
laxative and so if you're like only eating coconuts, you know,
(10:40):
you lose you lose some control. But you know, there's
also issues with like hydration, Like weirdly, if you're not
getting enough hydration, right, you can get stomach sick. And
so there's just like you know, if you're eating kind
of like yeah, like food that's like maybe not perfectly preserved,
you could not feel so great in your stomach. So
and you saw that some of these people are drinking
sour coke.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
Christian is not doing that.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
I wanted to ask you about that. I was like, well,
surely this is going to give you guys diarrhea if
you're drinking like it's moldy coconut milk.
Speaker 4 (11:10):
Yeah. I think that I trust Christian as a scientist
that you know, to be fair, he's a robotic so
he's not a coconut scientist. But I do think that
he knows better than to drink a sour coconut if
it's sour, like that's your body saying like.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
No, yeah, right, fair enough.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
But one girl is like this tastes good. I like
this tastes like exactly. Going back to this cast, you know,
are you surprised that some of the biggest names aren't there,
Like Boston Rob's not there, Sandra Tony, Harby Harvedy, Like,
are you surprised that those guys aren't there?
Speaker 4 (11:44):
I mean in some ways, I think it's good because
they're such icons and you do sort of want to give,
you know, to see new things and to see new players,
and you know, I feel like when they're there and
I'm you know, I think for maybe more casual fans,
they want to see the big names, and that's how
I probably would feel, you know, for the shows that
I I'm a casual fan of, Like I love to
watch The Challenge and I you know, I want Wes
on the screen, you know, I want to see CT again. Yeah,
(12:07):
But for me because I think I'm like deep in it,
Like it's fun to see new players get the chance
to shine, which maybe it would be harder to do
when they're so in the shadow of somebody else. I mean,
Suri is one of the legends of the game, and
you just see her like running circles around these people,
you know, and like, we only want like one or
two sores on the cast, you know, to like, but like,
you just see how completely dominant she is. She's always
(12:29):
been one of the best, and she also has years
and years of experience.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
You brought up the Challenges show that I love a
lot too, and one of the things they do on
the challenge is the veterans usually always kind of go
after the newbies. Is that something that happens in Survivor
a lot, even if it's not like unspoken.
Speaker 4 (12:46):
Yeah, I mean I think what's interesting about Survivor and
that that's not the case for the challenges. First of all,
I think everyone's a little more strategic on Survivor. Yeah,
so like the new players on the challenge are like
they're just like wide eyed sheep, you know, they're like,
what's going on around me? How you they? But I
do think people on Survivor are a little savvier and
because there are you know, fewer of those old schoolers.
(13:07):
But you know, I think those bonds also run deep.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
You know.
Speaker 4 (13:09):
You see that Suri and Ozzy are just have a
bond from having played for decades together, like literally decades.
And it's funny to me that, you know, three of
my real life best friends on this cast are Rick Devins,
Christian and Emily Flippin, and somehow they don't see that,
you know, they think Surri is their buddy and they're like,
should we vote out Ozzy? And She's like no. And
(13:33):
I think that was really interesting the fact that you
lose sight of everybody's history when you're out there and
you think it's this little self contained bubble, but it's
really not. And these relationships from outside the game really
do persist into the game. Yes, have much more Reality
TV experience than I do. Like what's your perspective, like
in terms of like how much you can see the
thing happening in front of you with all these other
(13:55):
relationships outside of it.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
I think it. I think it's hard.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
I mean, like, I've done what eight seasons, nine seasons
of Paradise, and everyone seems like its own little nucleus
of fun, you know, and so everyone bonds really well together.
So I understand like when when these tribes are you know,
like crying over someone leaving, over you know, popping an
Achilles and all the sudden, I can totally rationalize that.
(14:23):
And I think for the the viewer that hasn't been
on the show is like, this is dumb. They just
met or like they just started playing the game, so
I can. I can rationalize it a little bit.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
But the old school players are like, you can't let
emotions get in the game.
Speaker 4 (14:39):
Yeah, well it's so interesting because then there's also but
on another level, like they're also much more in some
ways emotional. I mean, we had that great scene with
like Colby and Rizzo where Colby's like, you know, you
got hard and it's not emotions, I guess, but just
like this sort of like Rizzo is like, I want
to play a game, like I don't care about you know,
all this other stuff, like I'm here to play like
the strategic game. I'm a survivor, and you know, Colby's
(15:01):
like we got a fish and hunt and be you know, survivalists.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Yeah, it's it's definitely bonding when you're in this immersed
in this thing and you have nothing else going on.
You don't have your phone, you don't have a TV,
you don't have anything.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
But what's there?
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Yeah, looking back on your seasons, is there anything that
you issue had done differently or changed them or are
you'd happy with the way you played well?
Speaker 4 (15:26):
The second time? Definitely there's something that I would have changed.
I mean, honestly, my second time, I was you know,
it's it's really emotionally challenging. I mean, as you were saying,
you know, to vote someone out, you know, is hard,
and I think that's magnified on the show, like Survivor
where you're literally relying on these people for like their
(15:48):
body heat. At night, you know, you are cuddled up
close in the shelter, it's freezing out, it's raining, you're
shivering together, you're holding onto each other, and then the
next day you're lying to each other's faces and betraying
them to mind. It is and I mean, as you
you know, and the money too on Survivor is so
transformational that you literally are destroying someone's dreams when you
(16:08):
vote the mountain, you know, you're like, you you know
this money that's going to like pay off your father's debts.
You know, Sorry, you got to go, like you have
like two moving a story. You're like, oh, you need
this for like medical treatment for your child. Well I
got to vote you out, you know. And so like
that is like a really difficult thing to do, even
as it is sort of the what you have to
do to be a part of this game.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
You know, what you sign up for. But what would
make anybody sign up for this? I mean I get
a lot of other things, yeah, even but I am
not signing up for this. But watch I'll wind up
on this show someday.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
Maybe, I don't know.
Speaker 4 (16:38):
What happens that would be great.
Speaker 3 (16:40):
I'm not what would makes someone say I want to
do this.
Speaker 4 (16:43):
I think it's the adventure. I mean, I love strategy games,
but I mean I have to say, like after that
first time, I was really like shell shocked from it
and I didn't want to do it again. And I
think I came in my second time a little bit
less open, and you see how you really have to
open yourself up to these people to have, you know,
the capacity to form alliances, right, Like alliances are like
(17:05):
friendships first, you know, you have to have those deep
emotional connections in order to build those alliances. And the
other thing that I did wrong my second time, which
I'm curious what will happen this game, is like I
had a really powerful advantage. It was a steal of vote,
and I like lost sight of the game in front
of me because I was like already projecting out like sixteps.
(17:25):
Oh here's how I'm gonna use this at the final five,
you know, so I totally like I was planning like
too far out, and then you lose sight of what's
happening right in front of you and you see some
people who have you know, I wonder if that happened
to Savannah where she has her block of vote, this advantage,
and she like was not being open with it in
a way that maybe she should have, and she loses
sight of like the the strategy that's happening right in
(17:46):
front of her.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
Tell us all about your book, Escape, Oh, thank you
so much.
Speaker 4 (17:57):
Yes, So Escape is actually based on my life, as
you know, part of this sort of reality TV universe.
It's about a forty something has been reality contestant who
goes back on his jungle theme survival show. It's it's fictional,
it is not autobiographical, and.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
This does this guy shit his pants at some point
in the book he.
Speaker 4 (18:18):
Has exactly exactly Yeah, And while there he faces off
against a manipulative producer who's sort of like going through
traumas of her own. So like, obviously I've been a
contestant on Survivor twice. I've been podcasting about this, you
know genre for decades. I would was a TV executive,
and so I wanted to kind of like capture what
it's really like to be on one of these shows
in a way that I hadn't seen before in fiction.
(18:41):
And so so far it's it's been going great.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
It was a best seller and congratulation. That's amazing. I'm
very happy for you.
Speaker 4 (18:48):
Yeah, it's been it's been an awesome ride so far.
And you know, for anybody listening, you know, if you're
interested in shows like Survivor, it might appeal to you.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
I it would appeal to me.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
I am highly dyslexic, so I listened to books on tape.
Is this on audible?
Speaker 4 (19:04):
It's got a great audiobook and it's actually won a
bunch of like audio prizes. It won like the I
don't know, the Earphones Award from Kircus or something. Oh
so yeah, and it's got a great cast. Julia Whalen,
who many people may know if they listen to audiobooks,
who like the New York are called the adele of audiobooks,
is one of the key narrators. And Sean Patrick Hopkins
is another one, and he's you know, won every award
(19:26):
out there, so it's, uh, yeah, it's a guy. It's
it's there's a multiple there's multiple narrators and it's got
great cast. So actually it's a fantastic audiobook.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Okay, that from my cardio. I have one question. Yeah,
and I mean, maybe you can answer it, maybe you can't.
It seems like, you know, sometimes producers step in in
reality shows, right, but in Traders zero produced absolute less
than zero?
Speaker 3 (19:52):
How about here did the do.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
They producers step in every once in a while at
all or there?
Speaker 4 (19:59):
Of course they're asked king interview questions. And I think
that's something that's really interesting, And that's one of the
things I explore in the book what you guys are
experienced with, like the way confessionals yeah, yeah, and the
way a question can kind of shape your thinking. But
I do think the Survivor producers, and that sounds like
the Traders' producers too, are really hands off because like
the format itself is so good, Like the format drives
the conflict. You don't need to like put your thumb
(20:19):
on the scale who.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
Decides where you do your interviews because a lot of
times people are like awkwardly sitting on a tree looking sideway,
and I'm like, why was this the angle that we
thought was good?
Speaker 4 (20:30):
That's really funny. That is absolutely something that these are
great observations. Yes, so you are sort of like led
to a place by a producer and you're like posed
there and they're like you know, it's so much of
it is about the light because you know, you're you're outside,
so it's like they've got like a bounce which reflects
the light from the sun. But you also like you know,
they're aware of the shadows. You have to be far
enough away from camp so that you can't be overheard, right,
(20:53):
and that nobody like kind of breaking off from camp
is going to stumble on you where you are, so yeah,
but they do sort of like pose you. So there
were all these life Yeah, it's so uncomfortable sometimes that's
that's really that's a very funny.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
That's the only thing so they don't get anymore because that's.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
A rough one.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
Stephen, this has been so much fun u talking with
you and getting some behind the scenes stuff and hearing
about all the stuff that you're doing, especially with your
book Escape. We are going to ask you to stick
around for our next episode where we're going to recap
the entire episode two, which would be very fun. Everyone
out there, thank you so much for listening to by
(21:34):
order of the Faithful Survivor edition, we'll be back again
with more Steven who will be recapping episode two. See
you guys,
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by Audiochuck Media Company.
NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal
Gregg Rosenthal and a rotating crew of elite NFL Media co-hosts, including Patrick Claybon, Colleen Wolfe, Steve Wyche, Nick Shook and Jourdan Rodrigue of The Athletic get you caught up daily on all the NFL news and analysis you need to be smarter and funnier than your friends.