May 8, 2026 • 25 mins
Communication is one of the top issues in most relationships, and Jana is ready to hear some tips on how married couples can work better as a team from author and therapist Eli Weinstein.
Eli reveals how to approach a conflict when one (or both) people in a marriage don’t feel “seen”, and he uncovers the biggest misconception about communication in a relationship.
Find out how to handle arguments when words don’t come out the way you intend, and Jana learns the power of taking a “timeout”.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Wind Down with Janet Kramer, an iHeartRadio podcast. This week's
Adult Education, we got Ellie Weinstein on. He is an author,
a podcaster, a therapist, a dad, and he gets really
open about his journey with his marriage and parenting with
his wife. He's promoting his book from I Do Do
(00:23):
We Do? Navigating Marriage in the Parenting Years KB. Let's
get him on. So we're so excited to have you
on the show. It's always fun to hear from a
man's perspective when it comes to marriage and parenting. And
obviously you've got you know, your your book out and
then you're also a therapist. How long have you been
in the therapy.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
World for almost ten years?
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Almost ten years? Wow? Okay? And then even married for
ten years? Right?
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Yeah, a little bit over? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Is there something in because I always wonder this too
when I'm you know, in my therapy sessions, I'm like,
I wonder what they fight about with their spouses and
like what the advice they they give me, like what
they actually aren't doing perfectly too right, because they always
say those that can't teach. So I'm like the.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
Joke I always have, I don't know anything about what
to do in my marriage with my kids, but your
life I know plenty. But like in the book, I
talk about all the ridiculousness, you know, I do.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
I do talk about the fights we have.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
What is one of the most common thread that you've
seen see with relationships and then marriage, Like, where is
it resentment? Is it? Like? What is the thing that
is the biggest conversation in your room?
Speaker 3 (01:32):
It's the idea of not feeling seen and that that
could be respector or like loved, But it's the idea
of like, hello, I'm right here, We've been together for
how many years and you don't get it yet, or
you don't listen to me, you don't respect. Like the
idea of being seen is respect and love and all
those things.
Speaker 4 (01:49):
Of like.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
I'm right here and you don't know me yet. How
come you don't? How come you haven't gotten this yet?
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Right? Do you feel that on both sides? Like or
is it just the woman feels that way and then
the man feels a certain way? Or is it is
it both? Is it two parties both not feel clean
or is it?
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (02:07):
I think men feel it differently. I think men it's
like the word respect is more prominent. I think with women,
it's more loved yep, but it's still that same undertone
of like, you don't see me, you don't you don't
get me.
Speaker 4 (02:20):
How does it show up for you than when you
feel that way? Because I know how it shows up
for me, And I can speak for Janna and I
on this because we're very similar creatures and it's not
sometimes hot Ellie, when we that frustrator feel devalued, we
call it, you know, clean before the cleaning lady shows
our true colors often, So how does it show up
on like for you in your male side, Like my
husband tends to shut down a little bit. I can
(02:41):
see that, and so I try to go into the
valley and pull them out with me.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
But how does it show for you?
Speaker 4 (02:46):
And then also how how can we better? How can
we better steward our husbands? Yeah, so that so that
they feel like they can have the space to say
what they like to say.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Yeah, I think for me it gets quiet and for
men it gets quiet and annoyed. That's when like you
start seeing all the negative small things, when you're starting nitpicking.
It's like, oh and that's a problem, and that's a problem,
and you just everything just sucks. It's like this cloud
of darkness. I think the biggest thing that women could
do for their men is just to check in, just
(03:17):
to be like, instead of saying, like, what the hell is.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Wrong with you? Why you're so annoying? Why are you doing? Hey?
Are you okay? Like what's going on? I'm here for you.
I have your back.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
I think men should do that for the woman too.
By the way, I think that's just a good question
that we should be asking everyone is just are you okay?
Speaker 2 (03:33):
What's going on? I'm right here.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
And I think for men, they're afraid to be honest
and open about it because then they could see them
annoyed or they're getting frustrated about ridiculous things and stupidity
and you know, I'm just being too much or over
dramatic or I'm not enough and all those big feelings.
But I think what women could do would just be
very direct. I just want to let you know I
have your back, I'm right here when you need me,
(03:56):
just so you know I'm right here.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
And what would be one of the tips for a
wife that doesn't feel seen or doesn't feel heard, or
feels that their husband goes straight to defense. What would
you say? Is the thing that they could ask their
husband to like, hey, could you because it's sometimes where
I feel like you can you can say it, but
then it's just the pattern that they'll still do. So
what's something that can be helpful in those moments to
(04:18):
help that?
Speaker 5 (04:19):
Well?
Speaker 2 (04:20):
I love that question. I've been doing this like media
thing for the book, and I have been asked that yet,
thank you. I love that. Let's go.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
The idea is that communication is about learning and awareness.
It's not about winning or it's not about who's right
and who's wrong, even though it feels that way a
lot of times. So the biggest thing is someone its
defense is like, hey, we're on the same team. Let's
start with that. We're on the same team. It's not
me versus you, it's us versus whatever that is, whatever
(04:49):
the mother in law, the stress of finances, the job,
the noise, the kids write, whatever, not that we should
be against our kids. But you know what I'm saying,
Like the stuff is that's outside of us. It's more
of turning towards each other versus pointing fingers at each
other and saying you suck and you're the worst. But
towards each other and holding hands, say okay, how can
we look forward together? And that's a lot of practice.
(05:12):
So when a man is getting defensive, it's usually because
he feels attacked. Or why anyone would be defensive, right
is they feel attacked, they're caught off guard, they feel
they need to protect themselves in some way. So it's
more of reassuring, by the way, I'm not trying to
attack you. I just have a struggle with this. I'm
just frustrated. I'm annoyed. This is pissing me off. This
is difficult. So like, let's hold hands theoretically, and how
(05:35):
can we just take a breath for a second. Remember
we're on the same team. A joke, you know. Now
that's the hockey playoffs right now. A lot of the
things when you see someone score a goal, or any sport,
you see someone win, the entire team cheers with them.
You never see someone on the winning team sitting out
the side going but I wanted to score it, that
was my goal. No, No, we are doing this together.
So when someone has this frustration or someone is struggling,
(05:58):
it's our struggle. We need to figure out out how
can I support you. It's not my struggle, it's your
struggle maybe, but it's our team mentality that impacts the unit.
Same thing with joy. So if someone's getting defensive, especially men,
it's more of like, hey, we're gonna be okay. I'm
right here. We're on the same team. Let's fight it together.
What can we do together versus you know, biting each
(06:19):
other and attacking each other?
Speaker 1 (06:20):
So hard to do in the moment though, Oh.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
So difficult, doesn't po It's like so difficult, it sounds great.
Oh yeah, it sounds great.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Question. That's my question.
Speaker 4 (06:27):
So, like I hear you, like, by the way, I'm
just wildly attracted to your brain because I love humor
and I know you've bring a lot of I'm.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
A little I'm a little ridiculous, you know. The adhd
is the ag meds don't always kick in on some
one and you need them, you know.
Speaker 4 (06:41):
Yeah, so I want to I'm like drinking your words
and I was reading through like your bio and everything,
and like, gosh, I was like this, you're kind of
like made for us in this season.
Speaker 5 (06:49):
Janna and I have kids that are literally matching in age.
Speaker 4 (06:51):
So we're about we're ten, we're seven, and we're like
two ish ooh, that's the party who And the third
one is a little bit of the tip the scale.
So it's like, you know, in theory, I'm going, yes,
I know this right, We're on the same team. But like,
I'm also a highly sensitive person. So when the noise
is going crazy, Ellie, I would I want to just
like same, So what do you say to your wife,
(07:14):
your beautiful wife, who you also credit to being like
this grounding force and like also I really acknowledge that
you called her a rock star.
Speaker 5 (07:20):
That matters to you, SI, So.
Speaker 4 (07:22):
You when it's all getting heightened and it's absolutely nuts
because we're all been there, it's like battle feeling.
Speaker 5 (07:28):
Cortisols up. Is it like do you grab her face?
What do you do? You do you just say I'm
here with you? Do you make eye contagged?
Speaker 3 (07:36):
We have like cutesy things sometimes when we want to reset,
we boop each other's noses or we go on ouga
that means like I'm ready to reset, like when we
get into a fight. So it's like a little humorous
but physical touch. It really depends on the couple. So
a few things that I do For some people, it
could be you like wave a white flag or pick
up a towel and go like, okay, we need to
pause for us. I use the word glitching. So when
(07:57):
I feel that my brain, if I'm overwhel I'm getting
over stimulated, I'm getting pissed off, and I'm not communicating
the way I want and nothing's making sense for me.
And definitely you don't understand what I'm saying because I'm
all over the place. We go, Hey, we're glitching, and
that means like we need to step away, and that's
a boundary we've created and worked on and it's not perfect.
(08:19):
I sometimes definitely me get a little I get a
little harder in the paint a little bit sometimes and
keep going with it. My wife is a lot better
at that, like walking away with a plan to come back.
So glitching is like, Okay, things are not it's late,
I'm tired, I'm overwhelmed, I'm hungry, I had a long day. Okay,
so let's can we come back in fifteen minutes? Can
we come back when we put the kids to bed finally,
(08:40):
and just recap for like ten fifteen minutes? Is the
glitching in the moment so that you're right, it's impossible,
It's sometimes impossible in the moment to be like, hey,
we're a team, it's all magical everything.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Let's hold hands exactly.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
So you're like you're like overwhelmed and you're like I
want to ma you, or like this is too much
for me.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
So you go, okay, I'm glitching. Some people like to
do time out. Not everyone likes this in their face.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
Oh yeah, I would not.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
I would get really annoyed. I'd be like, whoa, Oh,
get out of my face. No, So it really depends
on you guys. But you have to come up with
a system that is this idea of this is not
going the way I expected. This is not how I
wanted this, this is not productive. Something's getting lost in translation,
we need to step away for a second. So we
call it glitching when we're like, you know, a robot
(09:29):
just freaking out.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
I love the callback to like when you'll speak again
for me, like that's a big thing, like I have
you have to do one of my things, like abandoned
an issue, and they're going to stay or they're going
to leave, and so it's you know, it's being like hey,
I can't talk right now, but in like a couple
hours or whatever, it's to revisit it because it's just
it feels it's unfair.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
It's unfair to leave someone with that like lonely feeling
and be like, wait, are we okay? It's more of
like we are okay, I love you. I want to
be able to have this real good conversation. So I
can do that in an hour, or I can do
that tomorrow morning. It's right before bed. I just can't
do it right now because this is not gonna There
are gonna be things that are said, or we're going
to do things that we're really going to regret and
(10:12):
hurt even more. So let's just pause and we're going
to come back.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
You know what I love about you know your book too,
and what you talk about. And there is the fact
that it is so much of parenting, marriage in parenting,
and I think it just adds such a different layer. Obviously.
I mean, by the end of the night, you're just exhausted,
You've got your work dock, you've got kids back, you're
trying to And I think for a woman, especially the
things that we have that we're tracking in our brain.
(10:51):
Sometimes what I make up that makes a husband feel
like they're like, where are they on the list of
all the things. But we're just trying to We're just
trying to track everything and everybody and organize everything. But
when when that overload happens, like when you're glitching and
you're overloaded from that. What's one of the things that
you wrote in the book about, you know, your best
(11:15):
tip of parenting in through marriage?
Speaker 3 (11:18):
Yeah, so I have two, maybe three, I don't know,
but we'll go with one. What you're talking about is
really like the burden of mental load, and it's, you know,
a hot topic everyone talks about. I think one of
the things that people misconstrued with mental load is that
you need the other person to do something. That's part
of it. Sometimes you do and you ask for help
if you can, and that's a whole other bag of
(11:39):
tricks if you can. But a lot of it is
also just the fact that someone's actually aware of the
context going on in your brain. Sometimes I don't even
know that my wife is looking at the world that way,
that her vantage point is so different than mine, so
she I don't know that she's thinking about what birthday's
coming in three weeks, that she's buying a gift. I
don't know that she's seeing the world this way unless
(12:00):
she talks to me about it. So a lot of
the mental load conversations is just the awareness that, oh,
now I know where you're coming from. Okay, okay, that
is a lot. I get that, and I appreciate you
for that, versus people thinking that it means you have
to take something off their list. If you can write
it down and then look at your partner and go,
by the way, is there anything on this list that
(12:20):
you can take off, I would really appreciate that. Please
do that also, because that's really important, so that one
person doesn't do everything or becomes a default of the world.
So I think that's really important. But one thing that
when it comes to like a tip is I'm very
big into this thing called a check in.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
So it's a nightly thing. Oh you you you like
this one.
Speaker 5 (12:40):
Jana is good at that.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
Well, we used to. I mean it's it's it's not
every night like we tried to do it like once
a week, but it was a heart of Fanos. Yeah, yeah,
so we would do that one. That's something that I've loved.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Oh I love that.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
Yeah, Banos is a great one. But you know it's
again at the end of the night after tecking kids
and in softball games and baseball games and all the things.
Sometimes we don't do it, and we haven't in a
minute being totally honest too. But whenever we do it,
I feel great because I can say what I need
and what you know, and then also say like, and
you've been great at X or whatever.
Speaker 5 (13:16):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
So it's it is one of my favorite things to do.
It's just sometimes at the end of the night, I
just want to go to.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
Bed, you know for sure. So the two things I
would say with the check and I have is like
a three parter. It's what's on tap for tomorrow? So
it's like a logistic so like, who knows what the
hell happened yesterday? And I know it's on the calendar,
and I know you told me seven weeks ago, but
please remind me tomorrow. Okay, So this is doing carpool,
This is doing this. Okay, we're doing that. Okay, well
two three break, we got it. The second question is
what do you need from me? And that could be emotionally,
(13:44):
that could be you know what's not on the list
that if you have some time. And the third thing
is what do you need for yourself? So that's like
really like if my wife said to me, like when
the kids come home, I really looked at the dog
for a walk for fifteen minutes. I really need that today. Okay, great,
and you could do in the morning, and the coffee
it's five ten minutes. But what goes hand in hand
with that idea of a check in is this idea
(14:08):
of being able to truly have a baseline love. What
I mean by that is you should have like a contract,
not really but like guidelines to your marriage or relationship,
that these are the things that are no brainers. We
do this every day, so I like, we have a
bedtime routine. My wife and I say the same thing,
and we're doing it since we've been dating. These are
the expected that you do them always, and you do
(14:29):
them no matter what, so that everyone knows that we're
locked in. Even when you're tired, you will say good
night with that loving thing. You have a secret handshake,
you have a little squeeze of a tushy, you have
a kiss on the forehead, you have a nibble on ear,
whatever those things are that make you feel like, oh,
we're good on any given day. I think it's just
a really important thing to implement.
Speaker 5 (14:49):
So that, yeah, nibble a lot.
Speaker 4 (14:51):
I can't do that if I nibble on the ear, La,
what are you setting us up for?
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Fine, so not nibble on the ear.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Yeah, memas when we do that, it's more and honestly
because it revolves around I know that I need to
work out so much for like my own mental health
and sanity of our family. So it's there's a lot
of times where it's like, Okay, are you going to
drop a roman off in the morning, Well, if you could,
then that way I can get my run in and
then and then I'll pick up or you know. So
it's it's helpful and then yeah, I love that.
Speaker 4 (15:20):
I do want to selfishly ask this a little. So
we are My husband travels a ton, like he's gone
about two hundred nights a year, So I sometimes I
think my resentment stems from like not being able to
tap somebody in.
Speaker 5 (15:33):
Well, I know that, Actually I don't think. I mean
I know that, you know, like I'm a.
Speaker 4 (15:37):
Primary parent, but then I'm extra primary even when he's
home because they're just so used to me.
Speaker 5 (15:41):
So is there is there even? I mean, I guess we.
Speaker 4 (15:45):
Could implement the same three questions that I deeply loved,
by the way, but can I use those same three questions?
I know there's a lot of listeners that listen that
have husbands that are traveling a ton, and so like,
what's a good check in if you aren't even in
the same zip code?
Speaker 2 (15:59):
What can be I wouldn't even do a check in.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
I would even say that when it comes to the
non zip code and then someone's coming home and all
that kind of stuff, cause I've worked with couples who
are either pilots or army and stuff like that, and
it's like that being away for a while or having
a business and traveling, it's like setting the expectation right
because like I think one of the first chapters, I
wrote something called the Holy Trinity, and it's like the
idea of when the expectations of perceptions don't match. So
if we're if we're expecting them when someone comes home,
(16:24):
I'm now off, you've been gone for this amount of days,
you're coming in. Like my wife is going away for
a couple of days next week for conference. I don't
expect that when she comes back Tuesday night that now
I'm off.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
I'm still on.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
But if I expect that and then she misses the mark,
God bless her, right, it's not gonna be great. I'm
gonna be so livid and pissed because it didn't match
my expectations. So I think a lot of the times
when it comes to parenting, it's not communicating the expectation
and the needs and being real with it. Like, Hey,
when you come home, here's what I'm actually expecting. I'm
not expecting to swoop and just take over because yeah,
(16:59):
I've been around for this many days and you have
been out. But here's what I am expecting. Do you
think you can do that for me? I need you
to do that for me. It's like a bid for
like I really need you and you matter, and the
idea of like being far away. That's when like the
zoom calls and phone calls and all those things are important.
But in the end, it's very hard to continue those
check ins and that depth of intimacy when you're far away.
(17:20):
So that's like, you know, the cute setting love letters
or maybe sending a little gift or all those things
that we can be cognizant of for each other that
I'm thinking about you Oh, you know, I went to
a supermarket and I saw this favorite candy. I'm going
to mail it to you because I'm out of town
or I can only get this candy or this special
thing in this area, and I know how much you
love it. It's that intentionality of showing up for the
relationship that like, you are on my mind and I
(17:42):
care about you. I'm not just running around having a
good time without you.
Speaker 5 (18:00):
What was the driving force for this book?
Speaker 1 (18:02):
I think it's just such a needed book.
Speaker 4 (18:03):
But I want to know, like in your personal walk,
when where you like there's actually so much here that
everyone needs.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Yeah, I think it started.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
It started percolating when I got into like I said
read in the introduction that I got into a massive
fight with my wife after our daughter was born, and
I had my own panic attacks and stuff like that
my after my daughter was born. But it really like
the idea of having a book. I hate writing. It's
my biggest fear. I'd rather have a famous podcast or
a talk show where I speak to millions of people
(18:30):
a day than write a tweet. Like I can't stand writing.
It gives me all this stuff. But a publishing company
reached out to me and said, hey, we heard about
you through this, that, and the other thing. We'd love
for you to write a book. And I went, this
is the opportunity that it's being put in front of me.
I can't pass up on this. So we were talking
about different ideas and I said a fatherhood book and
they said, no one's going to buy that, and I said, Okay,
you're probably right. So I put a father herd chapter
(18:52):
in the book. Okay, that's fine, great, and I'm super
excited about that. But then it was like, Okay, while
writing it, it was my clients. I was working with it.
I'm like, oh my gosh. And even my clients got involved.
I don't know if you see this wonderful white board
behind me, and my son and daughter drew all their
fun things for my background for daddy's videos, they said,
and I used to have sticky notes of all the things.
(19:15):
And my clients got involved. They're like, Ellie, that was
a great one liner. You got to put it on
the board for the book. And it was like, wow,
this is really important. But also like I'm married, I
get it, like our marriage got wrecked because of Ricky
and the expect my daughter the expectations are second Max.
It was because of sleep. We were just a show's
(19:36):
throat because we were getting woken up every hour or two.
And now we have a third one on the way,
and like we've done the work, but because we've been
there and it's really hard, and then.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
Also a night nanny helps every once in a while.
The tree is to get a good sleep.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
Yeah, that's why we moved to Las Vegas near my
mother in law because she loves to do that. She
likes knights.
Speaker 4 (19:53):
Hey, we want you to come back to us though
when you have the third and not because we think
it's going to be a train wreck.
Speaker 5 (19:58):
Just be where you're going to be your support team.
We're going to your support group.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
I need it. I need it. I'm nervous.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
Yeah, I mean I was blessed to be able to
have one like you know, every once in a while.
And then you know, my husband actually got up so
much with our son and it was glorious because I'm like,
I need sleep. I mean I pulled an almost an
all night or last night working and I'm just like
I can I can feel the tension.
Speaker 3 (20:20):
Yeah, And I have a chronic ill I got crones,
I have a chronic illness. So like when I don't
get sleep, I used to get worried about going to
bed because of what would happen at night. But with
my daughter, she messed us over because she was slept
so well. So it's like we could do this. We
could totally have a second kid, second kid, and now
were like, wait, can we have a third kid? Are
we going to be okay? But it's it's each kid
(20:41):
has taught us different things that we need, and it's
taught us different things that we struggle with with each other.
With the with the unit. That has really made us stronger.
And we have our bad days, we definitely do, and
but we do have a lot more good days because
we've paid attention to the faults, to the issues.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
Do you think all couples should go a couple's therapy one?
Speaker 3 (21:02):
But I don't think. I don't think it's the way
everyone thinks it is. So I think that it's really
good to have maintenance just to check in check your
oil or whatever. But if you're going to couple's therapy
to find problems to use against the other person, don't
even go. You have bigger problems than just that. But
if you're going to couple's therapy and the therapist is
(21:23):
searching for problems because there's nothing to talk about get
out of that therapy office. But if you're going because
it's a good place to air things out, to talk
things through with a third party, not as like I
told you, the therapist was going to tell you you're crazy. Like,
but if it's for real, genuine intention to grow and learn,
why not. Yeah, it doesn't have to be every week.
(21:44):
It could be once a month, it could be once
every six months.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Yeah. Yeah. I had I posted something at therapy the
other day and someone said of someone commented saying, if
you were truly content, you wouldn't need to go to
go to therapy, and I literally laughed out loud. And
the same thing. They're like, you talk about couples therapy, Allen,
And I'm like, yeah, because it's something where it's I'm
still learning and growing and you know, it's how to
(22:09):
communicate better be It's like, I'd rather have the tools
so that when things come up, I know how to
handle them as opposed to going there and it's destruction,
you know.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
And I think it's a problem with people thinking that
there has to be like a crisis for you to
go to therapy. But I also think it's a problem
with people scared to like grow. Yeah, I think people
who want to go to therapy are willing to look
at themselves in the mirror like you just said and
be like, you know what, I don't know everything. I
go to therapy, I don't know everything and I shouldn't
(22:38):
because this is a skill. Like I say this in
the book often, but I really believe this. It's a
skill to grow and learn how to be a good partner.
You don't wake up and be like, oh, I'm amazing
at this and then, just like with parenting, you have
to learn. It's a skill that you keep practicing and
pivoting and shifting depending on the challenge every day. So
you don't have all the skills. You don't know all
(22:59):
the tricks of the trade, and that's okay, but you
can learn it was.
Speaker 5 (23:02):
That modeled for you growing up?
Speaker 4 (23:04):
Did you have like a parental like you know, like
Jan and I come from the place where parenting was
pretty disconnected.
Speaker 5 (23:11):
I'm putting that like gently and so like.
Speaker 4 (23:13):
For us, it's like we're all a lot of people
I think our age are trying to parent from a place.
Speaker 5 (23:18):
Of not seeing it. Yeah, but you also don't want
to swing, you know, completely the other way either.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
So what was like going on for you?
Speaker 5 (23:26):
Does that kind of drive this a little bit interesting?
Speaker 3 (23:28):
Like and my parents know that I talk about this offense.
I was like, my parents are really My mom is
really emotionally in tune. My dad has a lot of
emotions inside that you don't get to see a lot
only when my kids are around. He like opens up.
It's the most beautiful thing to watch my dad be
that way. They were always a good team together. Like
they had fights and they had arguments all those things,
but they were a team together. But my home was
(23:49):
a little rocky because my brother, my older brother, was
like the bad kid that my the first child who
didn't know what to do with it, And I was
like the practice And I then was the good behaved
one because of that. So it wasn't that I didn't
have a good example of parents, but I learned a
lot of stuff from my grandparents, like my grandmother and grandfather.
My grandmother's still alive, she's ninety eight years old. She'd
(24:10):
live long and well, and she's so healthy and wonderful.
I talked to her more about their experiences and their
relationship because they were both like open and honest and
talked about a lot of things. My parents weren't a
bad example, but it was just kind of like, Okay,
they're here, you know. And my mom was like the
one who was very emotional.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
My dad was not so.
Speaker 3 (24:32):
But now it's a lot different now that I'm older
and they're older and like the way we have conversations
about stuff. But there's still like that old school sometimes
view that I'm like, no, it doesn't work anymore.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Sarry about that.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
Yeah, well, we really appreciate you coming on, and everyone
go get from I do to WE do navigating marriage
in the parenting years. Thank you so much for coming on.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Thanks so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
I really appreciate it, really appreciate you. And yeah it's
a and.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Please reach out with any questions. Guys. I'm here for
you too. It's not just for the guests.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
All right, right on in.
Speaker 4 (25:04):
Then I'm going to crack your book open to the
fatherhood chapter and just leave it on the count.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
And you'd be like, ah, right.
Speaker 5 (25:10):
There, suggested reading passive aggressive.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Thank you about Thanks so much, guys,
Wind Down with Janet Kramer, an iHeartRadio podcast. This week's
Adult Education, we got Ellie Weinstein on. He is an author,
a podcaster, a therapist, a dad, and he gets really
open about his journey with his marriage and parenting with
his wife. He's promoting his book from I Do Do
(00:23):
We Do? Navigating Marriage in the Parenting Years KB. Let's
get him on. So we're so excited to have you
on the show. It's always fun to hear from a
man's perspective when it comes to marriage and parenting. And
obviously you've got you know, your your book out and
then you're also a therapist. How long have you been
in the therapy.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
World for almost ten years?
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Almost ten years? Wow? Okay? And then even married for
ten years? Right?
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Yeah, a little bit over? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Is there something in because I always wonder this too
when I'm you know, in my therapy sessions, I'm like,
I wonder what they fight about with their spouses and
like what the advice they they give me, like what
they actually aren't doing perfectly too right, because they always
say those that can't teach. So I'm like the.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
Joke I always have, I don't know anything about what
to do in my marriage with my kids, but your
life I know plenty. But like in the book, I
talk about all the ridiculousness, you know, I do.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
I do talk about the fights we have.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
What is one of the most common thread that you've
seen see with relationships and then marriage, Like, where is
it resentment? Is it? Like? What is the thing that
is the biggest conversation in your room?
Speaker 3 (01:32):
It's the idea of not feeling seen and that that
could be respector or like loved, But it's the idea
of like, hello, I'm right here, We've been together for
how many years and you don't get it yet, or
you don't listen to me, you don't respect. Like the
idea of being seen is respect and love and all
those things.
Speaker 4 (01:49):
Of like.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
I'm right here and you don't know me yet. How
come you don't? How come you haven't gotten this yet?
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Right? Do you feel that on both sides? Like or
is it just the woman feels that way and then
the man feels a certain way? Or is it is
it both? Is it two parties both not feel clean
or is it?
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (02:07):
I think men feel it differently. I think men it's
like the word respect is more prominent. I think with women,
it's more loved yep, but it's still that same undertone
of like, you don't see me, you don't you don't
get me.
Speaker 4 (02:20):
How does it show up for you than when you
feel that way? Because I know how it shows up
for me, And I can speak for Janna and I
on this because we're very similar creatures and it's not
sometimes hot Ellie, when we that frustrator feel devalued, we
call it, you know, clean before the cleaning lady shows
our true colors often, So how does it show up
on like for you in your male side, Like my
husband tends to shut down a little bit. I can
(02:41):
see that, and so I try to go into the
valley and pull them out with me.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
But how does it show for you?
Speaker 4 (02:46):
And then also how how can we better? How can
we better steward our husbands? Yeah, so that so that
they feel like they can have the space to say
what they like to say.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Yeah, I think for me it gets quiet and for
men it gets quiet and annoyed. That's when like you
start seeing all the negative small things, when you're starting nitpicking.
It's like, oh and that's a problem, and that's a problem,
and you just everything just sucks. It's like this cloud
of darkness. I think the biggest thing that women could
do for their men is just to check in, just
(03:17):
to be like, instead of saying, like, what the hell is.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Wrong with you? Why you're so annoying? Why are you doing? Hey?
Are you okay? Like what's going on? I'm here for you.
I have your back.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
I think men should do that for the woman too.
By the way, I think that's just a good question
that we should be asking everyone is just are you okay?
Speaker 2 (03:33):
What's going on? I'm right here.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
And I think for men, they're afraid to be honest
and open about it because then they could see them
annoyed or they're getting frustrated about ridiculous things and stupidity
and you know, I'm just being too much or over
dramatic or I'm not enough and all those big feelings.
But I think what women could do would just be
very direct. I just want to let you know I
have your back, I'm right here when you need me,
(03:56):
just so you know I'm right here.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
And what would be one of the tips for a
wife that doesn't feel seen or doesn't feel heard, or
feels that their husband goes straight to defense. What would
you say? Is the thing that they could ask their
husband to like, hey, could you because it's sometimes where
I feel like you can you can say it, but
then it's just the pattern that they'll still do. So
what's something that can be helpful in those moments to
(04:18):
help that?
Speaker 5 (04:19):
Well?
Speaker 2 (04:20):
I love that question. I've been doing this like media
thing for the book, and I have been asked that yet,
thank you. I love that. Let's go.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
The idea is that communication is about learning and awareness.
It's not about winning or it's not about who's right
and who's wrong, even though it feels that way a
lot of times. So the biggest thing is someone its
defense is like, hey, we're on the same team. Let's
start with that. We're on the same team. It's not
me versus you, it's us versus whatever that is, whatever
(04:49):
the mother in law, the stress of finances, the job,
the noise, the kids write, whatever, not that we should
be against our kids. But you know what I'm saying,
Like the stuff is that's outside of us. It's more
of turning towards each other versus pointing fingers at each
other and saying you suck and you're the worst. But
towards each other and holding hands, say okay, how can
we look forward together? And that's a lot of practice.
(05:12):
So when a man is getting defensive, it's usually because
he feels attacked. Or why anyone would be defensive, right
is they feel attacked, they're caught off guard, they feel
they need to protect themselves in some way. So it's
more of reassuring, by the way, I'm not trying to
attack you. I just have a struggle with this. I'm
just frustrated. I'm annoyed. This is pissing me off. This
is difficult. So like, let's hold hands theoretically, and how
(05:35):
can we just take a breath for a second. Remember
we're on the same team. A joke, you know. Now
that's the hockey playoffs right now. A lot of the
things when you see someone score a goal, or any sport,
you see someone win, the entire team cheers with them.
You never see someone on the winning team sitting out
the side going but I wanted to score it, that
was my goal. No, No, we are doing this together.
So when someone has this frustration or someone is struggling,
(05:58):
it's our struggle. We need to figure out out how
can I support you. It's not my struggle, it's your
struggle maybe, but it's our team mentality that impacts the unit.
Same thing with joy. So if someone's getting defensive, especially men,
it's more of like, hey, we're gonna be okay. I'm
right here. We're on the same team. Let's fight it together.
What can we do together versus you know, biting each
(06:19):
other and attacking each other?
Speaker 1 (06:20):
So hard to do in the moment though, Oh.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
So difficult, doesn't po It's like so difficult, it sounds great.
Oh yeah, it sounds great.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Question. That's my question.
Speaker 4 (06:27):
So, like I hear you, like, by the way, I'm
just wildly attracted to your brain because I love humor
and I know you've bring a lot of I'm.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
A little I'm a little ridiculous, you know. The adhd
is the ag meds don't always kick in on some
one and you need them, you know.
Speaker 4 (06:41):
Yeah, so I want to I'm like drinking your words
and I was reading through like your bio and everything,
and like, gosh, I was like this, you're kind of
like made for us in this season.
Speaker 5 (06:49):
Janna and I have kids that are literally matching in age.
Speaker 4 (06:51):
So we're about we're ten, we're seven, and we're like
two ish ooh, that's the party who And the third
one is a little bit of the tip the scale.
So it's like, you know, in theory, I'm going, yes,
I know this right, We're on the same team. But like,
I'm also a highly sensitive person. So when the noise
is going crazy, Ellie, I would I want to just
like same, So what do you say to your wife,
(07:14):
your beautiful wife, who you also credit to being like
this grounding force and like also I really acknowledge that
you called her a rock star.
Speaker 5 (07:20):
That matters to you, SI, So.
Speaker 4 (07:22):
You when it's all getting heightened and it's absolutely nuts
because we're all been there, it's like battle feeling.
Speaker 5 (07:28):
Cortisols up. Is it like do you grab her face?
What do you do? You do you just say I'm
here with you? Do you make eye contagged?
Speaker 3 (07:36):
We have like cutesy things sometimes when we want to reset,
we boop each other's noses or we go on ouga
that means like I'm ready to reset, like when we
get into a fight. So it's like a little humorous
but physical touch. It really depends on the couple. So
a few things that I do For some people, it
could be you like wave a white flag or pick
up a towel and go like, okay, we need to
pause for us. I use the word glitching. So when
(07:57):
I feel that my brain, if I'm overwhel I'm getting
over stimulated, I'm getting pissed off, and I'm not communicating
the way I want and nothing's making sense for me.
And definitely you don't understand what I'm saying because I'm
all over the place. We go, Hey, we're glitching, and
that means like we need to step away, and that's
a boundary we've created and worked on and it's not perfect.
(08:19):
I sometimes definitely me get a little I get a
little harder in the paint a little bit sometimes and
keep going with it. My wife is a lot better
at that, like walking away with a plan to come back.
So glitching is like, Okay, things are not it's late,
I'm tired, I'm overwhelmed, I'm hungry, I had a long day. Okay,
so let's can we come back in fifteen minutes? Can
we come back when we put the kids to bed finally,
(08:40):
and just recap for like ten fifteen minutes? Is the
glitching in the moment so that you're right, it's impossible,
It's sometimes impossible in the moment to be like, hey,
we're a team, it's all magical everything.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Let's hold hands exactly.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
So you're like you're like overwhelmed and you're like I
want to ma you, or like this is too much
for me.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
So you go, okay, I'm glitching. Some people like to
do time out. Not everyone likes this in their face.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
Oh yeah, I would not.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
I would get really annoyed. I'd be like, whoa, Oh,
get out of my face. No, So it really depends
on you guys. But you have to come up with
a system that is this idea of this is not
going the way I expected. This is not how I
wanted this, this is not productive. Something's getting lost in translation,
we need to step away for a second. So we
call it glitching when we're like, you know, a robot
(09:29):
just freaking out.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
I love the callback to like when you'll speak again
for me, like that's a big thing, like I have
you have to do one of my things, like abandoned
an issue, and they're going to stay or they're going
to leave, and so it's you know, it's being like hey,
I can't talk right now, but in like a couple
hours or whatever, it's to revisit it because it's just
it feels it's unfair.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
It's unfair to leave someone with that like lonely feeling
and be like, wait, are we okay? It's more of
like we are okay, I love you. I want to
be able to have this real good conversation. So I
can do that in an hour, or I can do
that tomorrow morning. It's right before bed. I just can't
do it right now because this is not gonna There
are gonna be things that are said, or we're going
to do things that we're really going to regret and
(10:12):
hurt even more. So let's just pause and we're going
to come back.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
You know what I love about you know your book too,
and what you talk about. And there is the fact
that it is so much of parenting, marriage in parenting,
and I think it just adds such a different layer. Obviously.
I mean, by the end of the night, you're just exhausted,
You've got your work dock, you've got kids back, you're
trying to And I think for a woman, especially the
things that we have that we're tracking in our brain.
(10:51):
Sometimes what I make up that makes a husband feel
like they're like, where are they on the list of
all the things. But we're just trying to We're just
trying to track everything and everybody and organize everything. But
when when that overload happens, like when you're glitching and
you're overloaded from that. What's one of the things that
you wrote in the book about, you know, your best
(11:15):
tip of parenting in through marriage?
Speaker 3 (11:18):
Yeah, so I have two, maybe three, I don't know,
but we'll go with one. What you're talking about is
really like the burden of mental load, and it's, you know,
a hot topic everyone talks about. I think one of
the things that people misconstrued with mental load is that
you need the other person to do something. That's part
of it. Sometimes you do and you ask for help
if you can, and that's a whole other bag of
(11:39):
tricks if you can. But a lot of it is
also just the fact that someone's actually aware of the
context going on in your brain. Sometimes I don't even
know that my wife is looking at the world that way,
that her vantage point is so different than mine, so
she I don't know that she's thinking about what birthday's
coming in three weeks, that she's buying a gift. I
don't know that she's seeing the world this way unless
(12:00):
she talks to me about it. So a lot of
the mental load conversations is just the awareness that, oh,
now I know where you're coming from. Okay, okay, that
is a lot. I get that, and I appreciate you
for that, versus people thinking that it means you have
to take something off their list. If you can write
it down and then look at your partner and go,
by the way, is there anything on this list that
(12:20):
you can take off, I would really appreciate that. Please
do that also, because that's really important, so that one
person doesn't do everything or becomes a default of the world.
So I think that's really important. But one thing that
when it comes to like a tip is I'm very
big into this thing called a check in.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
So it's a nightly thing. Oh you you you like
this one.
Speaker 5 (12:40):
Jana is good at that.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
Well, we used to. I mean it's it's it's not
every night like we tried to do it like once
a week, but it was a heart of Fanos. Yeah, yeah,
so we would do that one. That's something that I've loved.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Oh I love that.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
Yeah, Banos is a great one. But you know it's
again at the end of the night after tecking kids
and in softball games and baseball games and all the things.
Sometimes we don't do it, and we haven't in a
minute being totally honest too. But whenever we do it,
I feel great because I can say what I need
and what you know, and then also say like, and
you've been great at X or whatever.
Speaker 5 (13:16):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
So it's it is one of my favorite things to do.
It's just sometimes at the end of the night, I
just want to go to.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
Bed, you know for sure. So the two things I
would say with the check and I have is like
a three parter. It's what's on tap for tomorrow? So
it's like a logistic so like, who knows what the
hell happened yesterday? And I know it's on the calendar,
and I know you told me seven weeks ago, but
please remind me tomorrow. Okay, So this is doing carpool,
This is doing this. Okay, we're doing that. Okay, well
two three break, we got it. The second question is
what do you need from me? And that could be emotionally,
(13:44):
that could be you know what's not on the list
that if you have some time. And the third thing
is what do you need for yourself? So that's like
really like if my wife said to me, like when
the kids come home, I really looked at the dog
for a walk for fifteen minutes. I really need that today. Okay, great,
and you could do in the morning, and the coffee
it's five ten minutes. But what goes hand in hand
with that idea of a check in is this idea
(14:08):
of being able to truly have a baseline love. What
I mean by that is you should have like a contract,
not really but like guidelines to your marriage or relationship,
that these are the things that are no brainers. We
do this every day, so I like, we have a
bedtime routine. My wife and I say the same thing,
and we're doing it since we've been dating. These are
the expected that you do them always, and you do
(14:29):
them no matter what, so that everyone knows that we're
locked in. Even when you're tired, you will say good
night with that loving thing. You have a secret handshake,
you have a little squeeze of a tushy, you have
a kiss on the forehead, you have a nibble on ear,
whatever those things are that make you feel like, oh,
we're good on any given day. I think it's just
a really important thing to implement.
Speaker 5 (14:49):
So that, yeah, nibble a lot.
Speaker 4 (14:51):
I can't do that if I nibble on the ear, La,
what are you setting us up for?
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Fine, so not nibble on the ear.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Yeah, memas when we do that, it's more and honestly
because it revolves around I know that I need to
work out so much for like my own mental health
and sanity of our family. So it's there's a lot
of times where it's like, Okay, are you going to
drop a roman off in the morning, Well, if you could,
then that way I can get my run in and
then and then I'll pick up or you know. So
it's it's helpful and then yeah, I love that.
Speaker 4 (15:20):
I do want to selfishly ask this a little. So
we are My husband travels a ton, like he's gone
about two hundred nights a year, So I sometimes I
think my resentment stems from like not being able to
tap somebody in.
Speaker 5 (15:33):
Well, I know that, Actually I don't think. I mean
I know that, you know, like I'm a.
Speaker 4 (15:37):
Primary parent, but then I'm extra primary even when he's
home because they're just so used to me.
Speaker 5 (15:41):
So is there is there even? I mean, I guess we.
Speaker 4 (15:45):
Could implement the same three questions that I deeply loved,
by the way, but can I use those same three questions?
I know there's a lot of listeners that listen that
have husbands that are traveling a ton, and so like,
what's a good check in if you aren't even in
the same zip code?
Speaker 2 (15:59):
What can be I wouldn't even do a check in.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
I would even say that when it comes to the
non zip code and then someone's coming home and all
that kind of stuff, cause I've worked with couples who
are either pilots or army and stuff like that, and
it's like that being away for a while or having
a business and traveling, it's like setting the expectation right
because like I think one of the first chapters, I
wrote something called the Holy Trinity, and it's like the
idea of when the expectations of perceptions don't match. So
if we're if we're expecting them when someone comes home,
(16:24):
I'm now off, you've been gone for this amount of days,
you're coming in. Like my wife is going away for
a couple of days next week for conference. I don't
expect that when she comes back Tuesday night that now
I'm off.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
I'm still on.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
But if I expect that and then she misses the mark,
God bless her, right, it's not gonna be great. I'm
gonna be so livid and pissed because it didn't match
my expectations. So I think a lot of the times
when it comes to parenting, it's not communicating the expectation
and the needs and being real with it. Like, Hey,
when you come home, here's what I'm actually expecting. I'm
not expecting to swoop and just take over because yeah,
(16:59):
I've been around for this many days and you have
been out. But here's what I am expecting. Do you
think you can do that for me? I need you
to do that for me. It's like a bid for
like I really need you and you matter, and the
idea of like being far away. That's when like the
zoom calls and phone calls and all those things are important.
But in the end, it's very hard to continue those
check ins and that depth of intimacy when you're far away.
(17:20):
So that's like, you know, the cute setting love letters
or maybe sending a little gift or all those things
that we can be cognizant of for each other that
I'm thinking about you Oh, you know, I went to
a supermarket and I saw this favorite candy. I'm going
to mail it to you because I'm out of town
or I can only get this candy or this special
thing in this area, and I know how much you
love it. It's that intentionality of showing up for the
relationship that like, you are on my mind and I
(17:42):
care about you. I'm not just running around having a
good time without you.
Speaker 5 (18:00):
What was the driving force for this book?
Speaker 1 (18:02):
I think it's just such a needed book.
Speaker 4 (18:03):
But I want to know, like in your personal walk,
when where you like there's actually so much here that
everyone needs.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Yeah, I think it started.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
It started percolating when I got into like I said
read in the introduction that I got into a massive
fight with my wife after our daughter was born, and
I had my own panic attacks and stuff like that
my after my daughter was born. But it really like
the idea of having a book. I hate writing. It's
my biggest fear. I'd rather have a famous podcast or
a talk show where I speak to millions of people
(18:30):
a day than write a tweet. Like I can't stand writing.
It gives me all this stuff. But a publishing company
reached out to me and said, hey, we heard about
you through this, that, and the other thing. We'd love
for you to write a book. And I went, this
is the opportunity that it's being put in front of me.
I can't pass up on this. So we were talking
about different ideas and I said a fatherhood book and
they said, no one's going to buy that, and I said, Okay,
you're probably right. So I put a father herd chapter
(18:52):
in the book. Okay, that's fine, great, and I'm super
excited about that. But then it was like, Okay, while
writing it, it was my clients. I was working with it.
I'm like, oh my gosh. And even my clients got involved.
I don't know if you see this wonderful white board
behind me, and my son and daughter drew all their
fun things for my background for daddy's videos, they said,
and I used to have sticky notes of all the things.
(19:15):
And my clients got involved. They're like, Ellie, that was
a great one liner. You got to put it on
the board for the book. And it was like, wow,
this is really important. But also like I'm married, I
get it, like our marriage got wrecked because of Ricky
and the expect my daughter the expectations are second Max.
It was because of sleep. We were just a show's
(19:36):
throat because we were getting woken up every hour or two.
And now we have a third one on the way,
and like we've done the work, but because we've been
there and it's really hard, and then.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
Also a night nanny helps every once in a while.
The tree is to get a good sleep.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
Yeah, that's why we moved to Las Vegas near my
mother in law because she loves to do that. She
likes knights.
Speaker 4 (19:53):
Hey, we want you to come back to us though
when you have the third and not because we think
it's going to be a train wreck.
Speaker 5 (19:58):
Just be where you're going to be your support team.
We're going to your support group.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
I need it. I need it. I'm nervous.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
Yeah, I mean I was blessed to be able to
have one like you know, every once in a while.
And then you know, my husband actually got up so
much with our son and it was glorious because I'm like,
I need sleep. I mean I pulled an almost an
all night or last night working and I'm just like
I can I can feel the tension.
Speaker 3 (20:20):
Yeah, And I have a chronic ill I got crones,
I have a chronic illness. So like when I don't
get sleep, I used to get worried about going to
bed because of what would happen at night. But with
my daughter, she messed us over because she was slept
so well. So it's like we could do this. We
could totally have a second kid, second kid, and now
were like, wait, can we have a third kid? Are
we going to be okay? But it's it's each kid
(20:41):
has taught us different things that we need, and it's
taught us different things that we struggle with with each other.
With the with the unit. That has really made us stronger.
And we have our bad days, we definitely do, and
but we do have a lot more good days because
we've paid attention to the faults, to the issues.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
Do you think all couples should go a couple's therapy one?
Speaker 3 (21:02):
But I don't think. I don't think it's the way
everyone thinks it is. So I think that it's really
good to have maintenance just to check in check your
oil or whatever. But if you're going to couple's therapy
to find problems to use against the other person, don't
even go. You have bigger problems than just that. But
if you're going to couple's therapy and the therapist is
(21:23):
searching for problems because there's nothing to talk about get
out of that therapy office. But if you're going because
it's a good place to air things out, to talk
things through with a third party, not as like I
told you, the therapist was going to tell you you're crazy. Like,
but if it's for real, genuine intention to grow and learn,
why not. Yeah, it doesn't have to be every week.
(21:44):
It could be once a month, it could be once
every six months.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Yeah. Yeah. I had I posted something at therapy the
other day and someone said of someone commented saying, if
you were truly content, you wouldn't need to go to
go to therapy, and I literally laughed out loud. And
the same thing. They're like, you talk about couples therapy, Allen,
And I'm like, yeah, because it's something where it's I'm
still learning and growing and you know, it's how to
(22:09):
communicate better be It's like, I'd rather have the tools
so that when things come up, I know how to
handle them as opposed to going there and it's destruction,
you know.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
And I think it's a problem with people thinking that
there has to be like a crisis for you to
go to therapy. But I also think it's a problem
with people scared to like grow. Yeah, I think people
who want to go to therapy are willing to look
at themselves in the mirror like you just said and
be like, you know what, I don't know everything. I
go to therapy, I don't know everything and I shouldn't
(22:38):
because this is a skill. Like I say this in
the book often, but I really believe this. It's a
skill to grow and learn how to be a good partner.
You don't wake up and be like, oh, I'm amazing
at this and then, just like with parenting, you have
to learn. It's a skill that you keep practicing and
pivoting and shifting depending on the challenge every day. So
you don't have all the skills. You don't know all
(22:59):
the tricks of the trade, and that's okay, but you
can learn it was.
Speaker 5 (23:02):
That modeled for you growing up?
Speaker 4 (23:04):
Did you have like a parental like you know, like
Jan and I come from the place where parenting was
pretty disconnected.
Speaker 5 (23:11):
I'm putting that like gently and so like.
Speaker 4 (23:13):
For us, it's like we're all a lot of people
I think our age are trying to parent from a place.
Speaker 5 (23:18):
Of not seeing it. Yeah, but you also don't want
to swing, you know, completely the other way either.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
So what was like going on for you?
Speaker 5 (23:26):
Does that kind of drive this a little bit interesting?
Speaker 3 (23:28):
Like and my parents know that I talk about this offense.
I was like, my parents are really My mom is
really emotionally in tune. My dad has a lot of
emotions inside that you don't get to see a lot
only when my kids are around. He like opens up.
It's the most beautiful thing to watch my dad be
that way. They were always a good team together. Like
they had fights and they had arguments all those things,
but they were a team together. But my home was
(23:49):
a little rocky because my brother, my older brother, was
like the bad kid that my the first child who
didn't know what to do with it, And I was
like the practice And I then was the good behaved
one because of that. So it wasn't that I didn't
have a good example of parents, but I learned a
lot of stuff from my grandparents, like my grandmother and grandfather.
My grandmother's still alive, she's ninety eight years old. She'd
(24:10):
live long and well, and she's so healthy and wonderful.
I talked to her more about their experiences and their
relationship because they were both like open and honest and
talked about a lot of things. My parents weren't a
bad example, but it was just kind of like, Okay,
they're here, you know. And my mom was like the
one who was very emotional.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
My dad was not so.
Speaker 3 (24:32):
But now it's a lot different now that I'm older
and they're older and like the way we have conversations
about stuff. But there's still like that old school sometimes
view that I'm like, no, it doesn't work anymore.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Sarry about that.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
Yeah, well, we really appreciate you coming on, and everyone
go get from I do to WE do navigating marriage
in the parenting years. Thank you so much for coming on.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Thanks so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
I really appreciate it, really appreciate you. And yeah it's
a and.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Please reach out with any questions. Guys. I'm here for
you too. It's not just for the guests.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
All right, right on in.
Speaker 4 (25:04):
Then I'm going to crack your book open to the
fatherhood chapter and just leave it on the count.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
And you'd be like, ah, right.
Speaker 5 (25:10):
There, suggested reading passive aggressive.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Thank you about Thanks so much, guys,
Host
Jana Kramer
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