June 23, 2026 • 21 mins
Jana’s hang with Hannah Brown continues with an honest conversation about the emotional toll of reality TV and why she nearly quit The Bachelorette.
She reveals the true stories that inspired her new book “Reasons to Be Loved by You”, and she takes us through her therapy journey while learning self-compassion and how to trust herself.
Hannah’s back and sharing it all on Whine Down!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Wind Down with Janet Kramer and iHeartRadio Podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Hey everyone, welcome back to our interview with Hannah Brown.
Let's hear all the reasons to be loved by you.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
So I have a question.
Speaker 3 (00:13):
You can totally decline if you're not supposed to or
I don't know. I don't know all the rules and
regulations around what you're supposed to say. But like in
most reality TV, we know it's not reality, and so
how much is scripted in this and how much do
you because you mentioned earlier that you're one of your
first like kind of real, real tastes of love, if
we can Dina Carter it for a minute, was this
(00:33):
like you know, he was somebody you thought he was
one person and ended up not being that person. So
you're going into this young with a million cameras. You
also have a little bit of this, like what you
know of relationships is a little bit jaded, and now
you're supposed to make a real connection with people that
may not be also being real, and they also have
(00:56):
a role to play.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Because we do need it to be good TV. Yeah,
so how much of the.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Previous first relationship like you're real, Like I want to
love him, but I don't trust yeah, and the characters
they have to play go into how you're feeling at
this point, because that's it's a lot on a person.
Speaker 4 (01:13):
I don't think I really realized how much it was
on me until I was in it and I literally
wanted to quit, Like I was like, I can't do this.
I don't even know how to open myself up to
these men. So like I kind of take on some
responsibility of it not working out for myself. I talked
to my therapists about this all the time. You know,
I'm happily married, But I do think if I had
the tools that I had now, probably would have had
(01:34):
a totally different top three. I don't know who knows,
and I think I could have made it work had
I known what I know now. I think at twenty three,
twenty four years old and having like my first love,
like it was not probably the healthiest relationship, and kind
of going through all that then going straight into the
(01:56):
show like a year later of that, like I have
a lot to take into like what I brought into
that experience. I think it made great TV and it
made me really relatable because I think a lot of
women at twenty three twenty four years old or even
you know, have these toxic relationships and find themselves in
these pattern have this opportunity to like maybe meet a
(02:16):
great guy or be able to work on out it
out together, and just like can't for whatever reason, like
because of them, because of the situation, because of things
that you all need to heal. Like I don't think
I really realized how much I was also bringing into
the situation and how it was going to be really
(02:37):
hard for me to go navigate the experience and then
like be on the other side in a healthy relationship.
Like I really commend anybody who's gone on that show
and has like gotten married, has a family, been able
to like do that, because I think it takes a
lot of work so hard having a relationship in the
public eye, but for it to be in that way,
(02:58):
you've got to like be committed to working on that together.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
And I don't think I even knew how at that
point does that work.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Because you've been married now a year to Adam, I
was reading too that you had.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
A little bit of.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Conflict with getting married, Yeah, which I think, By the way,
what I love so much about you is how open
and honest you are.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Like, I just I watched your podcast that you.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Did with the people from the Bolt Tree House, and
I just I love when couples can sit down and
talk about struggles because it is. And I was just
having a conversation with someone else about how we heard like, oh,
this couple never fights, and I'm like, it makes me then.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Go, what's wrong with me? What's wrong with my relationship something?
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Yeah, because I'm like, we have disagreements and sometimes they're
really tough.
Speaker 4 (03:45):
It's so much, and you know, it can sometimes be
hard because especially like being in the public eye and
you're everybody seems like they had these perfect relationships and everybody.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
A lot of them say too, we've never had an argument,
and oh, I was with some.
Speaker 4 (04:01):
Friends are like, okay, honestly, like it is really easy,
and I'm like, it's just honest.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
I'm like, maybe it is, and they're just I don't know,
and that's fine. But I feel like when.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
You're a passionate person, yeah, like I married a passionate person. Yeah,
and we all have these crazy circumstances, like.
Speaker 4 (04:19):
We all bring in kind of what Jana was saying, like,
you bring in your own stuff to the relationship and
it's not just it's two imperfect people trying.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
To in wild industries.
Speaker 4 (04:28):
Yeah, it's really hard, but I was really scared to
get married. I would say engagement season was like really
hard for me, filled with anxiety. But I do think
it's because of some of the interesting situations I've been
in of just like not trusting myself and like, I
(04:49):
don't know it just my parents. I love them to death,
but like I didn't see like the most healthy relationship
growing up, and so I think there was just a
lot of fear that went into marriage and knowing that,
you know, there's gonna be things we're gonna have to
work on. But I'm so thankful to be with someone
(05:09):
who also, like it's so growth minded and knows he
has things to work on and knows that things to
work on and shows up and encourages me. Like yesterday,
I was super anxious because I'm about to go I'm
doing this book tour and like it can kind of
be all consuming, and I was like, oh, I'm on
a walk and I just feel so anxious to He
like just stopped with me and he was like, Hey,
remember you have so much going on. This is totally normal,
(05:32):
Like what do you need from me right now? And
like that is such a blessing, Like people don't have that,
And yeah, we have other things we have to work on,
but we get to work on them together and as
long as you commit to that, like that is love,
that is marriage. But it can be really hard when
and even I'm like I wonder if I'm triggering sometimes
(05:54):
to people in social when like we're doing this funny
cute thing together, like we have those moments and those
are and we have the tough moments that you know,
don't make a cute real.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
And I know I know on Instagram, but there you shared.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
You were, you know, very vulnerable, you were crying, and honestly,
for me, sometimes I feel like I that piece of
my life has to now be gone because I did
so much of that when I was like leaving my
ex husband and then being a single mom and where
I don't I feel like now I have to show
it all buttoned up and like all perfect, like to
cry to something but like I'm healed and happy and
healthy and like which I am all those things and
(06:29):
I still have our days.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
I think that was what's now so hard helpful.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
For me to see because I'm like, Okay, she did it,
and like we're allowed to have bad days and I
can show that, but I'm still afraid to show it.
Speaker 4 (06:40):
I was so scared, but I was like, I I
just had this moment of like what am I going
to do? Am I going to just pass over this
and then show like the silly moment when like I'm
actually like having like this breakdown of it's so hard
when you've been through things and you've talked about your
mental health and how much you've grown and I have
and I have, but there are still moments that are
(07:01):
really hard, and I can feel so deflated and defeated
of oh here I am here, I am again like being
crippled by anxiety. And I have thank goodness to have
all these tools, but like it sucks that I still
find myself here sometimes, like I feel like I should
be fully healed. Yeah, And so what I typically have
done is just like go away for a bit and
(07:23):
then come back when I can like actually button up
the smile and it's genuine. But I think a lot
of times I'm not genuine because I won't even show
up when it's anything but that. And it really resonated
with a lot of people, and I was honestly like like,
oh god, I don't want to be the girl on
the crying video, Like I don't really do that. I've
(07:43):
done that on TV, but like deciding for myself, like hey,
to show up this way was a little hard, and
I do think it's like, you know, you shouldn't do
that every day, like maybe.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Right, maybe get off social but I appreciate it. Thank
you know that it touched me to go okay, like I.
Speaker 4 (08:01):
Don't have to like, yes, I can be in such
a better place than I was five years ago, and
I'm still a human who's going to struggle and have
heart seasons, and like I can, I can still show
up and I can still be impactful and people aren't
going to like be like, oh well, I can't take
any advice from her now because look at her life today,
(08:22):
like she's None of us.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
Are trying to be experts. I feel like that, like somebody,
I feel like in the world that you're in, specifically,
like there's this like expectation that because you are honest
and open and beautiful in the way that you do it,
that you're the expert.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
Like none of us ask to be experts.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
And I think even on here, you know, it's like
listeners right in and we're like, well, we should probably
see a therapist because we don't know.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
So Yeah, And it's.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
A dangerous slope when we attach judgment to feelings, like
you can still be anxious and do you can be
a thousand times better than you used to be. Yeah,
and still just be an anxious human. You run a
little anxious, but you know. So it's great for that
is being an incredible author. And you have your fourth
book coming out, and this is so exciting because you
(09:07):
know what it's like you just said, it's about your
sister in law who used to be your ex boyfriend's girlfriend. Yes,
the girl that he was dating when you were on
the show.
Speaker 4 (09:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
I love the fact that you have brought this into
a book.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Well, I really haven't talked about it publicly.
Speaker 4 (09:25):
This is awesome and so this is kind of the
way that I.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Have brought you know, what is it saying like when
art imitating art imitating life?
Speaker 4 (09:35):
Yes, And I think because I've waited. This is my
third romance novel I've written too, and I've had the
idea to do this from the beginning.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
Have you always wanted to write romance.
Speaker 4 (09:59):
No, like from I've always wanted to write fiction. My
first idea is more like a women's lit idea. But
then I was on the Bachelor and everybody just so
invested in my romantic life, and so it kind of
made me pivot, like how I wanted to start writing,
Like what type of books I wanted to put out,
because it's a way for me to I'm so glad
(10:24):
that everybody is rooting on my love story, but to
bring in other love stories for people to read.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
For So that's what.
Speaker 4 (10:31):
Made me decide, like I wanted to write romance, and
I love romance myself, and I feel like they're a
great way, Like they're like a very easy way to
start reading if you haven't read before. I think it's
a great entry way. I think everybody just loves Happily
ever After. And so it's fun to be able to
write romance and to be able to weave some of
(10:54):
my own feelings or in this case with Nicky's story
my newest book, Reasons to Be Loved by You, you
my own personal experiences into the character.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
So NICKI is, did you, by the way, have do
you have any got it? Like anxiety around that at all. No, No,
I love it, girl, girl, because that's when I say things,
I'm like, oh, is this person going to be upset?
Like when I wrote I mean mine was a little
bit more about my ex husband. Yeah, ish, it was
my story, but he was weaved in obviously, But I
(11:25):
always wondered if like he was going to get upset
because I'm writing, Well.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Let me take that back.
Speaker 4 (11:29):
There was a moment like I I did wait a
little bit later than I anticipated to give the book.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
To my brother and my sister in law.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Yep, but I I felt really sure you didn't have
permission before. No, Okay, love it because it's my story.
I love it because that's such an empowering and you
can tell that you've done therapy because it's there's a
difference between saying it's my story. Yeah, and I can
share my experience in my story and that is and I.
Speaker 4 (11:58):
Know my heart and I know where our life has
gone and our family has truly came to that like
happily ever after place. It was not always that way, I.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Should it would have been that you said too, that
like you struggled with it.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
And it's like the fact that they're asking for like
my approval, but like I get it.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
Yo.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
It was so hard, it was so weird. I I
did all the way you chose that's his the girlfriend
that was he was seeing.
Speaker 4 (12:22):
Yeah, I did all my work privately. I didn't talk
about it publicly. I worked through that myself. And it
was so weird and very hard, and there was a
lot of tension in our family for a while. But
my brother and my sister in law have a beautiful
relationship they have My niece is like my favorite person
(12:44):
on the planet, and there's been such a redemption in
the story. So deciding to write the story now, I
have of such a better lens of putting it out
because I'm not trying to make anybody the villain in
this story. I'm not trying to like weave in some
like vindictive.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Like making him be bad. Yeah, no and not.
Speaker 4 (13:05):
I'm telling a truth a story, and Nicki has similar
feelings that I had at certain points. But the there's
no like Kara, who is kind of inspired by my
sister in law. She's not like this evil person. She
has her own story too, and there's tension, but in
(13:26):
the end it's a happily ever after for Nicki and
her own love story for their family. It's really sweet
and I'm so glad that I'm I did this now
because I could it came from like a really true
place that I guess I wasn't worried where I say, like, oh,
I didn't have anxiety because like it came from a
good place. Like the story is supposed to be a
(13:47):
feel good story, has a lot of heart to it
because that's where I'm at in my own personal life.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
Sure, isn't that funny how when you're healthier and happier. Yeah,
you write from that place too. Yeah, Like I remember
the first draft that I had on the book.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
It was like bad, not good, ye at all. It
would have been really bad.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Yeah, but I was like, no, this is about me, yes,
and like it's actually not about him.
Speaker 4 (14:11):
That's happened to me with every like my memoir same way. Yeah,
it was really harsh. And then as you like, come, okay,
what okay? I needed to get all that out obviously,
to get that out, and they start to turn it
on you. Yes, and the same for a fiction book,
which these are you know, fictitious.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
Favorites, because like Emily Giffen's my favorite author. I love
her dearly. So do you feel like, who do you?
Speaker 4 (14:39):
I feel like this book is really kind of inspired
from the way that I feel when I read Carly
Fortune books just they're so comforting. So I really love
her books, and I feel like this book there's not
a sense as much of a sense of urgency like
my first two books kind of had like something happening
that was you know, there was a time crunch of
some sort. This one feels hold a lot slower.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
And in depth.
Speaker 4 (15:04):
It's family dynamics that don't don't just like get figured
out in a week, you know, like it's it's a
summer long process where the story takes place in Georgia
at this family lake house and there's, yes, there's a
love story between Nicki and Nate, but it really is
about family, and I feel like it brings this like
comfort to it that going back home brings for a
(15:25):
lot of people, but also kind of that like you've
ever gone back home after something like what the heck
has happened in my life? And am I back here?
Like I think a lot of people can relate to that.
What was their reaction?
Speaker 1 (15:37):
So my I just love you.
Speaker 4 (15:43):
So uh like I said, I waited a little bit later, and.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
So this is happening Alable.
Speaker 4 (15:57):
I think I remember talking with Haley and she's like, oh,
I mean there's some parts in there that really bring
back some like feelings of the tension that that.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
Was there at the time. Did you read it? But
also like it's she.
Speaker 4 (16:11):
Was like, but it's good and it's redentive and like
I'm so glad for that. And but I do think
I probably caused them a little bit of anxiety for
sure at first, because they're like, what do you mean?
And but my brother was funny, like he he thought it.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
He thought it was.
Speaker 4 (16:28):
Great, and he always said like, look, our story is
like made for a movie, so might as well like
you look what you did?
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Yeah, you know, the greatest love story was the one
that you guys. He you know, I know it was
all your separate ones, and like you did that, you
did that.
Speaker 4 (16:41):
When they got married, we still were not like like
fully healed just yet. I would say, but you know,
I'm supporting them. They're getting married, and it's it's my brother,
and like.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
It's not her fault that she was getting I love
you the day.
Speaker 4 (16:57):
Before, but I remember I went up to say something
and everybody was like, oh, no, what.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
She's gonna say?
Speaker 4 (17:04):
And I just was like I just went up the
first time. I was like, I just want to say
to everybody, you're welcome, because like my love, my my
opportunity for love did not end up with me finding love.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
But look who did you know?
Speaker 4 (17:16):
Like, and so there is this a weird way that
like the Lord has worked in our lives and it
it has really been sweet and I'm like so thankful
for my family and I feel like we are We've
gone through so much. My story has had bumped in
the road. My brother has had such a journey and
to see where he has today, like I could not.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Be happier. I started crying.
Speaker 4 (17:41):
The New Tailor stuff song I heard it made me
think of my brother because I'm like, oh, like he
is now the person I knew.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
He would be, but there was such a hard season
for us.
Speaker 4 (17:53):
And I do credit that a lot to the relationship
that he's in, which is really cool. I mean twenty
twenty or twenty twenty one would be like what the
are you saying?
Speaker 2 (18:05):
What do you bump on the most? Like in therapy
that you go back to that's like that you struggle with.
Is it like, is there something in your like a
phrase that always kind of hits you that? And then
what's how do you get out of? Like how do
you walk out of that? M What do you mean
by that? Is there something where it's like I'm not
good enough or I'm not like or I can't trust
this person or I can't like I can't myself or.
Speaker 4 (18:28):
I think I oh, there's so honestly, there's so many
there's still a lot there. I think I can't trust myself.
It's probably the one that I will I find myself
going to.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
Is there something that your therapist? Is there a phrase
that she's helped you kind of get back to to?
Like my thing is I'm to get me back to
like reality? What's the present? Because sometimes I'll go in
the past. It's like, no, the present is this is
what my present is, and like things are good and
the world is not falling apart and the bottom's not
(19:17):
you know, coming up under my feet. Yeah, like I
have a loving man in a stable relationship, and so
it's like I have to sometimes.
Speaker 4 (19:25):
I don't know if there's like a I mean, she
does a lot of she has a lot of things
that kind of help. She does says a lot about
like compassion and accountability. She always says that, and that
helps me because I with other people and for myself,
for other people, I can have more compassion. I do
not have compassion for myself. I a lot of times
(19:46):
will say I'm bad. Like anything I do. I'm like,
I'm bad. I'm bad. I think that's maybe I'm not
good enough. I don't trust myself. And she really helps
me with like the compassion and accountability for myself, Like, hey,
you have a lot of a ability for yourself. You
expect a lot from yourself, but let's have compassion for
(20:06):
all where you've been and where you are now and
how much better you're doing in so many places.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
Like that I think can help me.
Speaker 4 (20:14):
And I need to be reminded that a lot, because
I'm not even think, Yeah, I guess comparatively I'm not bad,
but I just really am so hard on myself.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
Well, there's also a lot of noise in your world.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
Yeah, so, like as good and as wonderful and as
like just magical as you are, you're still in an
industry and out in the world where everyone can have
an opinion and their opinion can have volume, Like I
look at you and I think, well, first of all,
Jane and I have talked about this a lot, but like, oh, sister,
if there were cameras on me, like there are cameras
on you in my twenties, cringe, like I cannot imagine.
(20:50):
And so I just think of you ten years from
now and how proud you're going to be. And you
don't even know how good you are yet. There are
reasons for you to love yourself. You're just such and
there are raisons to be loved by you. Releases this month,
Hanna Brown, thank you for having me, Thank you so
much for coming on and just sharing it all.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
You are a breath of fresh air. So thank you
you too. Bie
Wind Down with Janet Kramer and iHeartRadio Podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Hey everyone, welcome back to our interview with Hannah Brown.
Let's hear all the reasons to be loved by you.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
So I have a question.
Speaker 3 (00:13):
You can totally decline if you're not supposed to or
I don't know. I don't know all the rules and
regulations around what you're supposed to say. But like in
most reality TV, we know it's not reality, and so
how much is scripted in this and how much do
you because you mentioned earlier that you're one of your
first like kind of real, real tastes of love, if
we can Dina Carter it for a minute, was this
(00:33):
like you know, he was somebody you thought he was
one person and ended up not being that person. So
you're going into this young with a million cameras. You
also have a little bit of this, like what you
know of relationships is a little bit jaded, and now
you're supposed to make a real connection with people that
may not be also being real, and they also have
(00:56):
a role to play.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Because we do need it to be good TV. Yeah,
so how much of the.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Previous first relationship like you're real, Like I want to
love him, but I don't trust yeah, and the characters
they have to play go into how you're feeling at
this point, because that's it's a lot on a person.
Speaker 4 (01:13):
I don't think I really realized how much it was
on me until I was in it and I literally
wanted to quit, Like I was like, I can't do this.
I don't even know how to open myself up to
these men. So like I kind of take on some
responsibility of it not working out for myself. I talked
to my therapists about this all the time. You know,
I'm happily married, But I do think if I had
the tools that I had now, probably would have had
(01:34):
a totally different top three. I don't know who knows,
and I think I could have made it work had
I known what I know now. I think at twenty three,
twenty four years old and having like my first love,
like it was not probably the healthiest relationship, and kind
of going through all that then going straight into the
(01:56):
show like a year later of that, like I have
a lot to take into like what I brought into
that experience. I think it made great TV and it
made me really relatable because I think a lot of
women at twenty three twenty four years old or even
you know, have these toxic relationships and find themselves in
these pattern have this opportunity to like maybe meet a
(02:16):
great guy or be able to work on out it
out together, and just like can't for whatever reason, like
because of them, because of the situation, because of things
that you all need to heal. Like I don't think
I really realized how much I was also bringing into
the situation and how it was going to be really
(02:37):
hard for me to go navigate the experience and then
like be on the other side in a healthy relationship.
Like I really commend anybody who's gone on that show
and has like gotten married, has a family, been able
to like do that, because I think it takes a
lot of work so hard having a relationship in the
public eye, but for it to be in that way,
(02:58):
you've got to like be committed to working on that together.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
And I don't think I even knew how at that
point does that work.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Because you've been married now a year to Adam, I
was reading too that you had.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
A little bit of.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Conflict with getting married, Yeah, which I think, By the way,
what I love so much about you is how open
and honest you are.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Like, I just I watched your podcast that you.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Did with the people from the Bolt Tree House, and
I just I love when couples can sit down and
talk about struggles because it is. And I was just
having a conversation with someone else about how we heard like, oh,
this couple never fights, and I'm like, it makes me then.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Go, what's wrong with me? What's wrong with my relationship something?
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Yeah, because I'm like, we have disagreements and sometimes they're
really tough.
Speaker 4 (03:45):
It's so much, and you know, it can sometimes be
hard because especially like being in the public eye and
you're everybody seems like they had these perfect relationships and everybody.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
A lot of them say too, we've never had an argument,
and oh, I was with some.
Speaker 4 (04:01):
Friends are like, okay, honestly, like it is really easy,
and I'm like, it's just honest.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
I'm like, maybe it is, and they're just I don't know,
and that's fine. But I feel like when.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
You're a passionate person, yeah, like I married a passionate person. Yeah,
and we all have these crazy circumstances, like.
Speaker 4 (04:19):
We all bring in kind of what Jana was saying, like,
you bring in your own stuff to the relationship and
it's not just it's two imperfect people trying.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
To in wild industries.
Speaker 4 (04:28):
Yeah, it's really hard, but I was really scared to
get married. I would say engagement season was like really
hard for me, filled with anxiety. But I do think
it's because of some of the interesting situations I've been
in of just like not trusting myself and like, I
(04:49):
don't know it just my parents. I love them to death,
but like I didn't see like the most healthy relationship
growing up, and so I think there was just a
lot of fear that went into marriage and knowing that,
you know, there's gonna be things we're gonna have to
work on. But I'm so thankful to be with someone
(05:09):
who also, like it's so growth minded and knows he
has things to work on and knows that things to
work on and shows up and encourages me. Like yesterday,
I was super anxious because I'm about to go I'm
doing this book tour and like it can kind of
be all consuming, and I was like, oh, I'm on
a walk and I just feel so anxious to He
like just stopped with me and he was like, Hey,
remember you have so much going on. This is totally normal,
(05:32):
Like what do you need from me right now? And
like that is such a blessing, Like people don't have that,
And yeah, we have other things we have to work on,
but we get to work on them together and as
long as you commit to that, like that is love,
that is marriage. But it can be really hard when
and even I'm like I wonder if I'm triggering sometimes
(05:54):
to people in social when like we're doing this funny
cute thing together, like we have those moments and those
are and we have the tough moments that you know,
don't make a cute real.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
And I know I know on Instagram, but there you shared.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
You were, you know, very vulnerable, you were crying, and honestly,
for me, sometimes I feel like I that piece of
my life has to now be gone because I did
so much of that when I was like leaving my
ex husband and then being a single mom and where
I don't I feel like now I have to show
it all buttoned up and like all perfect, like to
cry to something but like I'm healed and happy and
healthy and like which I am all those things and
(06:29):
I still have our days.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
I think that was what's now so hard helpful.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
For me to see because I'm like, Okay, she did it,
and like we're allowed to have bad days and I
can show that, but I'm still afraid to show it.
Speaker 4 (06:40):
I was so scared, but I was like, I I
just had this moment of like what am I going
to do? Am I going to just pass over this
and then show like the silly moment when like I'm
actually like having like this breakdown of it's so hard
when you've been through things and you've talked about your
mental health and how much you've grown and I have
and I have, but there are still moments that are
(07:01):
really hard, and I can feel so deflated and defeated
of oh here I am here, I am again like being
crippled by anxiety. And I have thank goodness to have
all these tools, but like it sucks that I still
find myself here sometimes, like I feel like I should
be fully healed. Yeah, And so what I typically have
done is just like go away for a bit and
(07:23):
then come back when I can like actually button up
the smile and it's genuine. But I think a lot
of times I'm not genuine because I won't even show
up when it's anything but that. And it really resonated
with a lot of people, and I was honestly like like,
oh god, I don't want to be the girl on
the crying video, Like I don't really do that. I've
(07:43):
done that on TV, but like deciding for myself, like hey,
to show up this way was a little hard, and
I do think it's like, you know, you shouldn't do
that every day, like maybe.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Right, maybe get off social but I appreciate it. Thank
you know that it touched me to go okay, like I.
Speaker 4 (08:01):
Don't have to like, yes, I can be in such
a better place than I was five years ago, and
I'm still a human who's going to struggle and have
heart seasons, and like I can, I can still show
up and I can still be impactful and people aren't
going to like be like, oh well, I can't take
any advice from her now because look at her life today,
(08:22):
like she's None of us.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
Are trying to be experts. I feel like that, like somebody,
I feel like in the world that you're in, specifically,
like there's this like expectation that because you are honest
and open and beautiful in the way that you do it,
that you're the expert.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
Like none of us ask to be experts.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
And I think even on here, you know, it's like
listeners right in and we're like, well, we should probably
see a therapist because we don't know.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
So Yeah, And it's.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
A dangerous slope when we attach judgment to feelings, like
you can still be anxious and do you can be
a thousand times better than you used to be. Yeah,
and still just be an anxious human. You run a
little anxious, but you know. So it's great for that
is being an incredible author. And you have your fourth
book coming out, and this is so exciting because you
(09:07):
know what it's like you just said, it's about your
sister in law who used to be your ex boyfriend's girlfriend. Yes,
the girl that he was dating when you were on
the show.
Speaker 4 (09:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
I love the fact that you have brought this into
a book.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Well, I really haven't talked about it publicly.
Speaker 4 (09:25):
This is awesome and so this is kind of the
way that I.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Have brought you know, what is it saying like when
art imitating art imitating life?
Speaker 4 (09:35):
Yes, And I think because I've waited. This is my
third romance novel I've written too, and I've had the
idea to do this from the beginning.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
Have you always wanted to write romance.
Speaker 4 (09:59):
No, like from I've always wanted to write fiction. My
first idea is more like a women's lit idea. But
then I was on the Bachelor and everybody just so
invested in my romantic life, and so it kind of
made me pivot, like how I wanted to start writing,
Like what type of books I wanted to put out,
because it's a way for me to I'm so glad
(10:24):
that everybody is rooting on my love story, but to
bring in other love stories for people to read.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
For So that's what.
Speaker 4 (10:31):
Made me decide, like I wanted to write romance, and
I love romance myself, and I feel like they're a
great way, Like they're like a very easy way to
start reading if you haven't read before. I think it's
a great entry way. I think everybody just loves Happily
ever After. And so it's fun to be able to
write romance and to be able to weave some of
(10:54):
my own feelings or in this case with Nicky's story
my newest book, Reasons to Be Loved by You, you
my own personal experiences into the character.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
So NICKI is, did you, by the way, have do
you have any got it? Like anxiety around that at all. No, No,
I love it, girl, girl, because that's when I say things,
I'm like, oh, is this person going to be upset?
Like when I wrote I mean mine was a little
bit more about my ex husband. Yeah, ish, it was
my story, but he was weaved in obviously, But I
(11:25):
always wondered if like he was going to get upset
because I'm writing, Well.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Let me take that back.
Speaker 4 (11:29):
There was a moment like I I did wait a
little bit later than I anticipated to give the book.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
To my brother and my sister in law.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Yep, but I I felt really sure you didn't have
permission before. No, Okay, love it because it's my story.
I love it because that's such an empowering and you
can tell that you've done therapy because it's there's a
difference between saying it's my story. Yeah, and I can
share my experience in my story and that is and I.
Speaker 4 (11:58):
Know my heart and I know where our life has
gone and our family has truly came to that like
happily ever after place. It was not always that way, I.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Should it would have been that you said too, that
like you struggled with it.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
And it's like the fact that they're asking for like
my approval, but like I get it.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
Yo.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
It was so hard, it was so weird. I I
did all the way you chose that's his the girlfriend
that was he was seeing.
Speaker 4 (12:22):
Yeah, I did all my work privately. I didn't talk
about it publicly. I worked through that myself. And it
was so weird and very hard, and there was a
lot of tension in our family for a while. But
my brother and my sister in law have a beautiful
relationship they have My niece is like my favorite person
(12:44):
on the planet, and there's been such a redemption in
the story. So deciding to write the story now, I
have of such a better lens of putting it out
because I'm not trying to make anybody the villain in
this story. I'm not trying to like weave in some
like vindictive.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Like making him be bad. Yeah, no and not.
Speaker 4 (13:05):
I'm telling a truth a story, and Nicki has similar
feelings that I had at certain points. But the there's
no like Kara, who is kind of inspired by my
sister in law. She's not like this evil person. She
has her own story too, and there's tension, but in
(13:26):
the end it's a happily ever after for Nicki and
her own love story for their family. It's really sweet
and I'm so glad that I'm I did this now
because I could it came from like a really true
place that I guess I wasn't worried where I say, like, oh,
I didn't have anxiety because like it came from a
good place. Like the story is supposed to be a
(13:47):
feel good story, has a lot of heart to it
because that's where I'm at in my own personal life.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
Sure, isn't that funny how when you're healthier and happier. Yeah,
you write from that place too. Yeah, Like I remember
the first draft that I had on the book.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
It was like bad, not good, ye at all. It
would have been really bad.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Yeah, but I was like, no, this is about me, yes,
and like it's actually not about him.
Speaker 4 (14:11):
That's happened to me with every like my memoir same way. Yeah,
it was really harsh. And then as you like, come, okay,
what okay? I needed to get all that out obviously,
to get that out, and they start to turn it
on you. Yes, and the same for a fiction book,
which these are you know, fictitious.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
Favorites, because like Emily Giffen's my favorite author. I love
her dearly. So do you feel like, who do you?
Speaker 4 (14:39):
I feel like this book is really kind of inspired
from the way that I feel when I read Carly
Fortune books just they're so comforting. So I really love
her books, and I feel like this book there's not
a sense as much of a sense of urgency like
my first two books kind of had like something happening
that was you know, there was a time crunch of
some sort. This one feels hold a lot slower.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
And in depth.
Speaker 4 (15:04):
It's family dynamics that don't don't just like get figured
out in a week, you know, like it's it's a
summer long process where the story takes place in Georgia
at this family lake house and there's, yes, there's a
love story between Nicki and Nate, but it really is
about family, and I feel like it brings this like
comfort to it that going back home brings for a
(15:25):
lot of people, but also kind of that like you've
ever gone back home after something like what the heck
has happened in my life? And am I back here?
Like I think a lot of people can relate to that.
What was their reaction?
Speaker 1 (15:37):
So my I just love you.
Speaker 4 (15:43):
So uh like I said, I waited a little bit later, and.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
So this is happening Alable.
Speaker 4 (15:57):
I think I remember talking with Haley and she's like, oh,
I mean there's some parts in there that really bring
back some like feelings of the tension that that.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
Was there at the time. Did you read it? But
also like it's she.
Speaker 4 (16:11):
Was like, but it's good and it's redentive and like
I'm so glad for that. And but I do think
I probably caused them a little bit of anxiety for
sure at first, because they're like, what do you mean?
And but my brother was funny, like he he thought it.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
He thought it was.
Speaker 4 (16:28):
Great, and he always said like, look, our story is
like made for a movie, so might as well like
you look what you did?
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Yeah, you know, the greatest love story was the one
that you guys. He you know, I know it was
all your separate ones, and like you did that, you
did that.
Speaker 4 (16:41):
When they got married, we still were not like like
fully healed just yet. I would say, but you know,
I'm supporting them. They're getting married, and it's it's my brother,
and like.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
It's not her fault that she was getting I love
you the day.
Speaker 4 (16:57):
Before, but I remember I went up to say something
and everybody was like, oh, no, what.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
She's gonna say?
Speaker 4 (17:04):
And I just was like I just went up the
first time. I was like, I just want to say
to everybody, you're welcome, because like my love, my my
opportunity for love did not end up with me finding love.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
But look who did you know?
Speaker 4 (17:16):
Like, and so there is this a weird way that
like the Lord has worked in our lives and it
it has really been sweet and I'm like so thankful
for my family and I feel like we are We've
gone through so much. My story has had bumped in
the road. My brother has had such a journey and
to see where he has today, like I could not.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Be happier. I started crying.
Speaker 4 (17:41):
The New Tailor stuff song I heard it made me
think of my brother because I'm like, oh, like he
is now the person I knew.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
He would be, but there was such a hard season
for us.
Speaker 4 (17:53):
And I do credit that a lot to the relationship
that he's in, which is really cool. I mean twenty
twenty or twenty twenty one would be like what the
are you saying?
Speaker 2 (18:05):
What do you bump on the most? Like in therapy
that you go back to that's like that you struggle with.
Is it like, is there something in your like a
phrase that always kind of hits you that? And then
what's how do you get out of? Like how do
you walk out of that? M What do you mean
by that? Is there something where it's like I'm not
good enough or I'm not like or I can't trust
this person or I can't like I can't myself or.
Speaker 4 (18:28):
I think I oh, there's so honestly, there's so many
there's still a lot there. I think I can't trust myself.
It's probably the one that I will I find myself
going to.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
Is there something that your therapist? Is there a phrase
that she's helped you kind of get back to to?
Like my thing is I'm to get me back to
like reality? What's the present? Because sometimes I'll go in
the past. It's like, no, the present is this is
what my present is, and like things are good and
the world is not falling apart and the bottom's not
(19:17):
you know, coming up under my feet. Yeah, like I
have a loving man in a stable relationship, and so
it's like I have to sometimes.
Speaker 4 (19:25):
I don't know if there's like a I mean, she
does a lot of she has a lot of things
that kind of help. She does says a lot about
like compassion and accountability. She always says that, and that
helps me because I with other people and for myself,
for other people, I can have more compassion. I do
not have compassion for myself. I a lot of times
(19:46):
will say I'm bad. Like anything I do. I'm like,
I'm bad. I'm bad. I think that's maybe I'm not
good enough. I don't trust myself. And she really helps
me with like the compassion and accountability for myself, Like, hey,
you have a lot of a ability for yourself. You
expect a lot from yourself, but let's have compassion for
(20:06):
all where you've been and where you are now and
how much better you're doing in so many places.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
Like that I think can help me.
Speaker 4 (20:14):
And I need to be reminded that a lot, because
I'm not even think, Yeah, I guess comparatively I'm not bad,
but I just really am so hard on myself.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
Well, there's also a lot of noise in your world.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
Yeah, so, like as good and as wonderful and as
like just magical as you are, you're still in an
industry and out in the world where everyone can have
an opinion and their opinion can have volume, Like I
look at you and I think, well, first of all,
Jane and I have talked about this a lot, but like, oh, sister,
if there were cameras on me, like there are cameras
on you in my twenties, cringe, like I cannot imagine.
(20:50):
And so I just think of you ten years from
now and how proud you're going to be. And you
don't even know how good you are yet. There are
reasons for you to love yourself. You're just such and
there are raisons to be loved by you. Releases this month,
Hanna Brown, thank you for having me, Thank you so
much for coming on and just sharing it all.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
You are a breath of fresh air. So thank you
you too. Bie
Host
Jana Kramer
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