May 7, 2026 • 24 mins
Holly Solem is the woman behind the viral TikTok account “Manthropology” where she talks to men on the street, and shares the good, bad, and the …scary!
We’re discussing why men act the way they do, thoughts on the “male loneliness epidemic,” and what things men say that are actually red flags in disguise!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:16):
I do Part two.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
I'm back.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
It's your celebrity mentor and single gal, Kelly ben Simone.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
I'm so excited today because I'm going.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
To chat with a writer who's been featured in the
Huffington Post, Vogue, Oprah Daily, and she's got a monthly
column in play Girl magazine.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
She's a woman.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Behind the viral TikTok account where she does woman on
the street conversations with real men called anthropology.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
You cannot make this up.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
It's Holly Sulm Hey, Holly, Hi, how are you.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
I'm well, we got the memo. We're both wearing blocked.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Of course, all the all the cool little girls are all.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
The cool girls. Yeah, how are you excited to meet you?
I'm I'm Kelly ben Simone. I I know that you're
your next model because you're really gorgeous. So we're not
going to talk about modeling.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
But we are.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
I'm so excited to meet you too.
Speaker 5 (01:17):
I've I've see I've watched you on TV. It's so
great to meet you. I'm a fan.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Oh my god, I'm oh my god, I'm a fan
your Oh my god, your TikTok is Literally I was like,
I was I just moved into a new apartment and
I was I was listening to them and I literally
is almost crying. I was like, this girl is amazing.
Oh my god, you are so funny.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
Let's get into it, Holly, because you get a lot
to talk about.
Speaker 4 (01:45):
I'm sure to say, yeah, I want to know everything.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
So you're making this really really interesting content which is
thought provoking on the Internet and just literally on the street,
simply asking men why they are the way they all.
Speaker 4 (02:08):
Yeah, how did you start making this content?
Speaker 5 (02:10):
Yeah, it's it's a very simple question, but ilicit's very
strong reaction.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Right.
Speaker 5 (02:17):
I'm a writer and so I was just like writing
about my life very quietly, behind the scenes. Yeah, And
my lit agent was like, you should start, you know,
putting yourself on camera more build up your social media profile.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
It'll help to sell your book. So I started like.
Speaker 5 (02:37):
Kind of talking to the camera about what I was
writing and about what I was going through, and by
about about my girl life, being a girl, being a woman.
And it got like inundated with men, Like I got
all these male followers and they just they started sort
of infiltrating all of my socials, my sub stack and
(02:58):
my Instagram my TikTok, like it was just all men,
and I was like, ah, why are all these men here?
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Like right, this isn't it's not for you. But after
a while I realized.
Speaker 5 (03:09):
Like there's something here, like if I appeal to men,
maybe I should.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
I should do something with this, I should lean into it.
Speaker 5 (03:17):
So I thought it would be funny to make a
show for men. And then I was like, people just
want to see themselves represented. That's what we're all interested in.
So I thought, I'll just interview men about being men
and it'll be kind of like a funny, a funny bit.
So it started kind of just as a joke, and
like I just started going around town like with my
(03:40):
phone and like a bad microphone and just being like.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Hey, I'm asking men, why are you like this?
Speaker 5 (03:45):
And asking them dumb questions about being men, and it
just kind of like weirdly took.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
I love that.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
I love when things happen organically and you can just
really tell that you were literally just walking up to
these guys and being like, tell me why you won't
date an old woman, Like tell me why you're you'res
in your late fifties and your age range is like
twenty two.
Speaker 5 (04:12):
To thirty what so much of this stuff too, I
just like stumble upon, like someone like the age rage range.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Things started because like one guy said.
Speaker 5 (04:25):
Something about, oh, I was dating this woman she was
younger than me, and then I was like picked up
on it.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
It was like why do you date younger women?
Speaker 5 (04:33):
And then that just turned into like a question that
I regularly asked, like what are.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Your age ranges on your apps?
Speaker 5 (04:39):
And then I'm like why, And then you know, it's
just feeds off of itself.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
I love the age range so much because like the
way these guys respond and like, listen, I'm like, I'm
I love men, and I like find I'm a twin brother,
like I fend find men to be really fun. Yeah,
but I just was shocked at how they how they responded.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
I mean, I just was like, I was shocked.
Speaker 5 (05:09):
I love men too, so like people think I'm like
some angry feminists, I'm a feminist and I'm angry, but
I'm not mad really like at men in general. Like
I love men, but I have had, you know, as
a woman, a lot of weird experiences with them my
(05:29):
whole life, as we all have. And I just was
surprised by how like men treat me a certain way
in the world with no cameras, and I was surprised
that it actually seems like amplified when the cameras are on,
Like they're almost emboldened to be even weirder and like creepier.
(05:50):
So like, you know, getting hit on by a man
is not that crazy, but the fact that they're willing
to like do that on camera. I think a lot
of a lot of men too, like think I'm just
like a kid with a camera, Like they don't really
Now they're starting to catch on because people really are.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Seeing the show, but it's a lot of people would
be like.
Speaker 5 (06:11):
Oh, is this your school project, And I'd be like, yeah,
it's still a project.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
That way, I'm dead you know, that is hilarious.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
So I mean, I just I still just I loved
what you just said about how like being you know,
having the camera, like you know, it's kind of amplifying their.
Speaker 4 (06:35):
Reactions and you can see that.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
I just feel like, you know, these online conversations like
they they are that you're having.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Are just like eye opening.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
I mean, you're just you are you know, You're you're
saying things that women are thinking and I just feel like,
what do you think.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Just gets under men's skin? Like what is it?
Speaker 2 (06:57):
So I'm sure sure you've heard the phrase.
Speaker 5 (07:03):
A man's greatest fear is being humiliated, and a woman's
greatest fear is being like, you know, murdered by a man.
And I think this somehow like taps right directly into
the vein of that is a lot of these men
think I'm like intentionally trying to humiliate men, or they're
(07:27):
surprised by my line of questioning that I'm coming up
to them. They think maybe, oh, this girl's going to
like flirt with me, and then I'm like, why are
you like this? And like they think it's they think
I'm trying to embarrass them, and they just something in
them short circuits. It's not there's so many men that
(07:48):
are so cool and that are in on the joke
and that they think it's so funny and they're fans
of the show, but they're not the ones that go viral.
Like I put those videos up too. I'm like, you, guys,
there's plenty of cool guys out here just you know,
taking it all in stride, but yeah, the ones that
(08:10):
really blow up are the ones that get super upset
and like offended by.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
Right, how about the It's like it's I think you
have it pinned on TikTok And it's like the guy
is like, you know, just in his like late twenties
and early thirties, and he seems to be really really
offended by you, but then he's like smiling at you
and asking questions back. So I'm like, I'm like, is
(08:35):
he I was like, is he flirting? Oh?
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Is that the guy? That's like, why the would you
ask me that? That guy? Yeah, he gets very upset. Yeah,
I don't know.
Speaker 5 (08:47):
Again, like it's it's it was the strangest thing because yeah,
when I walked up to him, he was totally friendly,
and then I said that, and it was like I
could see like a cloud, the storm cloud come over him,
Like his whole demeanor changed and he was so filled
with like hatred and rage towards me in that minute,
(09:09):
like I had really pushed something deep deep within him
that So it's a little scary sometimes.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
Yeah, I mean definitely, especially like you're in public and
they're just kind of like getting like all a nerve.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
You're like, it's just a TikTok video.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
You're like you're not trying to like short circuit him.
What's the biggest takeaway that you've had after speaking to
so many different men, Is there just like one continuous theme,
(09:49):
like what is it that they are they're they're saying?
Because there they are saying something. I heard it many times.
I'm just wondering what are they angry? Are they just
mad about being men? Are they lonely?
Speaker 6 (10:09):
Right?
Speaker 2 (10:12):
I think it's all of the above.
Speaker 7 (10:14):
I mean I think, yeah, I don't know where this
like thing. I do think there's something to do with
like the manosphere, like these men that have started podcasts
talking about how they're mad at women for whatever, for
not wanting to sleep with them, or because I think
there is, you know, some entitlement that comes with being
(10:38):
a man and living in a patriarchal society.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
And I think.
Speaker 5 (10:46):
To have their place being questioned is like it's really
messing with some people that I think thought maybe it
was going to be easier or that they should just
like yeah, that that life should be easier and they
should get things more than they are getting them.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
But I am always like confused when a guy's like
men don't know their place anymore. I'm like what do
you mean?
Speaker 5 (11:14):
Just like be like just so y'all, don't I know
it's so hard, just like do your be cool?
Speaker 1 (11:22):
Just do you?
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Yeah, it's not about being men or women.
Speaker 5 (11:25):
It's just like about living your life, like why is
there a place in society?
Speaker 2 (11:30):
But basically my whole.
Speaker 5 (11:32):
Point is I think that's kind of like a like
a manisphere rhetoric is like men being confused by their place.
Speaker 4 (11:40):
It's like, man, do you think too?
Speaker 3 (11:42):
It's because like in the workplace they're now they're being
challenged with you know, with women and with all these
different variables. And then now like you're asking this like
very this question that you know men men recognize themselves
by the cars they drive, the work that they have,
(12:03):
what's in their bank account.
Speaker 4 (12:04):
You know, that's how they identify themselves. So do you
think that like you're just.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Like who are you? And they're like what?
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Right?
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Right?
Speaker 2 (12:14):
They haven't. I mean a lot of but I don't
think it's just men. It's people.
Speaker 5 (12:18):
Like a lot of people just aren't terribly introspective. So
I think it like really throws someone off their game
when you're like asking this very like open ended, kind
of abstract question and maybe they're confused, and so that's
like frustrating. They just go immediately to frustration and rage
(12:40):
because they don't know how to answer it. But yeah,
I think men do you know, so many people do
define themselves sort of by their external world and what
they have and how much money they have.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
And women, now are you know, we are we.
Speaker 5 (13:00):
Had to work harder to get to where we are
and we are killing it. So I think that is
like intimidating for some guys.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
I have a question to you this.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
There's this concept of the male loneliness epidemic. Like I'm like,
wait a minute, wiremen alone, Like, what do you mean
they're lonely?
Speaker 1 (13:20):
Go outside? Like you're the you're guy, you know, Like, yeah,
talk to me about that. What are your thoughts on
this epidemic.
Speaker 5 (13:26):
I think it's just like I think it's probably real
among some men.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
I think a lot of men.
Speaker 5 (13:32):
Are lonely because they're just like they grew up just
playing video games and they don't know how to like
interact with other people, and they have just like poor
social skills and they're spending all their time listening to
you know, andrew utate instead of like going out into
the world. And meeting people, and yeah, it's it's people
(13:55):
not learning social skills. But I think people are lonely.
I mean women are lonely too. Everyone's lonely. We are
all having to learn how to live in this society
where we're like more comfortable behind a computer screen.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
I know.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
And I think that's a direct correlation from COVID. We
were alone, people were on their screens.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Dating and apps are bigger.
Speaker 4 (14:18):
So this podcast is all about, you know, finding love
in your chapter two?
Speaker 3 (14:22):
Yeah, do you think and do you think that women
should be asking men out on a date?
Speaker 1 (14:32):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (14:32):
I mean, yeah, I think I don't do that.
Speaker 8 (14:35):
Yeah, I mean I am in my forties, so I
guess this could be considered chapter two.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
And I and well have you wait, have you been
married before?
Speaker 5 (14:51):
I wasn't married, but you know I did have you know,
a lot of life changes in my thirties and kind
of to start over in my forties. And I ran
up to my current boyfriend.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
But that's because I was doing interviews, So.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
It's really about me.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
Yeah, I was like, why.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Are you like this? What do you think about wine?
Speaker 4 (15:19):
Do you like it?
Speaker 1 (15:20):
Do you like to have a class of wine with me?
That would be hilarious if.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
You know your video. I wasn't hitting on him.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
He just ran up to him and were like, you're hot.
Speaker 5 (15:32):
But it really works. I do think so few women
approach men that. Now that I have like a job
where I approach men for a living, they love it.
Men love being approached by a woman. I think so
many men are so afraid even like you know, interesting, cool, successful,
(15:54):
powerful men, it's really intimidating for them to like go
up to a woman and talk to her. So women,
if you want to go up to men, you.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
Can like they'll like it.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
No man is going to be like, What's I.
Speaker 3 (16:09):
Going to change the dynamic of the hunt, because like
so many men talk to like, you know, when I
talked to me, I mean, I'm just say on this podcast,
and I talked to men a lot about dating as well,
and on my new show, we're talking a lot about
my dating journey.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
And I was in Palm Beach and it was absolutely hideous.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
These men are like, hello, be nice, be nice to
me number one. Yeah, nice, Just be kind, Just be nice,
Just be kind like this, questions, ask questions, Ask me
how my day is, do you know? Just be kind,
Just be nice, and I just I'm just like, really,
I just would never ask.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
I mean, there were guys and I was like, oh god,
is kind of cute.
Speaker 4 (16:52):
And I'm like, no, no, no, no, I'm not asked.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
Came out.
Speaker 5 (16:56):
Yeah, somebody just came on my show and she was
saying that you should just like give a man like
a look and that's how men should know that it's
okay to come to you.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
And I like, so like, let's just a look.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
Ready, like's a world play, It's okay, what's what's your look?
Speaker 2 (17:18):
I looks like this, Okay.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
Ready for mine? Yeah?
Speaker 6 (17:23):
Mine?
Speaker 2 (17:23):
Like yeah, that's good.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
They always say touch your hair.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
If people are like your hair, I'm like, yes, I'm
trying to trash men.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
You gotta like, yeah, like touch your mouth.
Speaker 5 (17:37):
And you just well you can be like yeah, then
you start laughing, you giggle.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Exactly, winking exactly, and then.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
The men know that it's okay to talk to you.
But if you don't do that, So let's just.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
Let's just run through those because this is this is
an audio podcast, and just tell me like, okay, so
winking is good, touching your hair is good?
Speaker 1 (17:57):
What are yeah?
Speaker 5 (17:58):
So I kind of like, you know, you put your
put your head down and you kind of like look
up and you smile.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
You got a smile. People need to smile more, man,
really a smile more.
Speaker 4 (18:10):
But smiling smiling is really really good.
Speaker 3 (18:14):
Okay, let's talk about red flags because I think the
people think when they think of red flags, they think
of them as pink.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
They're not pink, they're red. Red is red. Red is red?
Speaker 2 (18:25):
Yeah, red as red.
Speaker 5 (18:26):
But why would you even want to mess with a
pink flag? Like, no flags, No flags are good unless
it's green.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
I know, I'm like, what are they?
Speaker 3 (18:38):
Like?
Speaker 4 (18:39):
So what are some of the red flags that you've
come across?
Speaker 2 (18:41):
Okay, so.
Speaker 5 (18:43):
Lying he was obvious, but you know so many people
are like, oh I caught him in this little lie, Like,
well then what else is he lying about?
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Right? Lying is not good, even like lying about age
I think is really weird.
Speaker 5 (19:02):
Like I had a guy that I met on on
Hinge a long time a while ago, a couple of
years back, like lied about his age and then I
like found out he was older, and he was like, well,
he got defensive and he got.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Mad at me when I called him out. Yeah, someone
getting mad at you?
Speaker 5 (19:23):
Someone getting defensive defensive a red flag if anyone's like defensive.
Speaker 6 (19:27):
About anything, and I agree, I agree, Like nom.
Speaker 4 (19:41):
So what are like the positive things like that?
Speaker 3 (19:44):
You'll be like, oh, he's saying that he's kind, And
then you're like, why is he saying that he's kind of? Like,
give me some of the things that you've you've you've
seen that like a petty positive but actually, and by
the way, after this, I would have write down a
whole list.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Okay, I think if a guy says he's kind, that's weird.
Why does he need to say it? Or like my dad,
I think he.
Speaker 5 (20:12):
Gave me some advice when I was a little girl,
and he said, never trust anyone who says trust me.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
And I'm like, you know, that's really true.
Speaker 5 (20:21):
Like if someone, especially if someone says that unprompted, you're like,
why why are you saying that?
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Why are you asking me to trust you?
Speaker 5 (20:28):
Have you done anything when people try to tell you, oh,
I'm this kind of person or I do this or
I'm like this, like.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
No, no, no, just me just show me, like be it.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
I love that and consistently be it, consistently be it
not just like oh I was nice once. No, no, no,
it's it's it's an all the time kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
Yeah. Consistency is so crucial.
Speaker 7 (20:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (20:54):
If somebody like is a certain way and then they
just like you see, like a glib or something like
very opposite of what of what they're portraying themselves as
run because they're just trying to hide something.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
Yeah. Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
I'm going to add cheating because cheaters are.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
Going to cheat.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
If they cheated once or if they have cheated in
the past, they're going to cheat again. I mean even
if they say they don't, they they will do things
that they do not feel as qualifying actual cheating, like
emotional relationships. You know, emotional relationships are not physical, YadA, YadA, YadA.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
But cheating is hard.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Now yeah, hard now hard? No, Yeah, Or somebody being like.
Speaker 5 (21:47):
Being like cheap with you, like like anyone any guy
who's like split the check like just no sorry.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
Or like oh my god, like literally when Palm Beach,
I was but I went on a date with this
guy and I said, you know, I was like, oh,
you know, you know, you know, can you blow can
you pay? I do have my hair blown out because
it's Florida because event and he was like, oh, so
now you want me to pay for You're going to
pay for my shave.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
I'm like, what, I'm going to an event for you?
He goes, I paid for your ticket. I'm like, ho, there, Nelly.
Speaker 3 (22:23):
Now you're asking me to pay for a ticket to
an event that I did not want to go to
and zero interested going to?
Speaker 1 (22:30):
Like no, thank you? Yeah, no, awful. I don't like
cheap because I'm not cheap and I do not like cheap.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Yeah, cheap is so on a track.
Speaker 4 (22:37):
I would never split. I would never split a bill
for no.
Speaker 5 (22:42):
No, I'll just I'll just pay for it and then
we'll just never hang out again.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
Exactly, yeah, exactly totally.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
Do men do good men exist?
Speaker 3 (22:52):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Yeah they do. There I'm going to have to I'm
going to do like a features reel of like the.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
Good man I've met streets here, Kelly, here's some good men.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
They do?
Speaker 5 (23:05):
The good men exist? You know, I you know, my
boyfriend is amazing. He's a good man. I was a
little skeptical about like somebody like really like ticking all
my boxes.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
But he does.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
So now I'm like love is real, y'all.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
Okay, So where is this?
Speaker 3 (23:22):
Where where do these good men hang out because I
need the GPS.
Speaker 4 (23:26):
Like yesterday, I'm I'm going to be stalking them like
a spider monkey.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
I interview like a spider monkey.
Speaker 5 (23:35):
I interviewed pro skiers and they were all really nice.
I was like, why are all of these boys so amazing?
And yeah, the Olympian athletes are really sweet. Go for
the Olympians, Girls for the Olympians.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
You guys have to wait for.
Speaker 5 (23:58):
You, but not like not like athletes, like not ones
with egos. Right, I feel like maybe guys that are
like doing like really dangerous things like athletically have less egos.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
I don't know. I don't know if there's one decispect
of men. Yeah, just like guys with egos are not good.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
Holla, you are so funny. I have a couple of
more things to ask you on I do part two.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
We'll be right back
I do Part two.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
I'm back.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
It's your celebrity mentor and single gal, Kelly ben Simone.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
I'm so excited today because I'm going.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
To chat with a writer who's been featured in the
Huffington Post, Vogue, Oprah Daily, and she's got a monthly
column in play Girl magazine.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
She's a woman.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Behind the viral TikTok account where she does woman on
the street conversations with real men called anthropology.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
You cannot make this up.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
It's Holly Sulm Hey, Holly, Hi, how are you.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
I'm well, we got the memo. We're both wearing blocked.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Of course, all the all the cool little girls are all.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
The cool girls. Yeah, how are you excited to meet you?
I'm I'm Kelly ben Simone. I I know that you're
your next model because you're really gorgeous. So we're not
going to talk about modeling.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
But we are.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
I'm so excited to meet you too.
Speaker 5 (01:17):
I've I've see I've watched you on TV. It's so
great to meet you. I'm a fan.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Oh my god, I'm oh my god, I'm a fan
your Oh my god, your TikTok is Literally I was like,
I was I just moved into a new apartment and
I was I was listening to them and I literally
is almost crying. I was like, this girl is amazing.
Oh my god, you are so funny.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
Let's get into it, Holly, because you get a lot
to talk about.
Speaker 4 (01:45):
I'm sure to say, yeah, I want to know everything.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
So you're making this really really interesting content which is
thought provoking on the Internet and just literally on the street,
simply asking men why they are the way they all.
Speaker 4 (02:08):
Yeah, how did you start making this content?
Speaker 5 (02:10):
Yeah, it's it's a very simple question, but ilicit's very
strong reaction.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Right.
Speaker 5 (02:17):
I'm a writer and so I was just like writing
about my life very quietly, behind the scenes. Yeah, And
my lit agent was like, you should start, you know,
putting yourself on camera more build up your social media profile.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
It'll help to sell your book. So I started like.
Speaker 5 (02:37):
Kind of talking to the camera about what I was
writing and about what I was going through, and by
about about my girl life, being a girl, being a woman.
And it got like inundated with men, Like I got
all these male followers and they just they started sort
of infiltrating all of my socials, my sub stack and
(02:58):
my Instagram my TikTok, like it was just all men,
and I was like, ah, why are all these men here?
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Like right, this isn't it's not for you. But after
a while I realized.
Speaker 5 (03:09):
Like there's something here, like if I appeal to men,
maybe I should.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
I should do something with this, I should lean into it.
Speaker 5 (03:17):
So I thought it would be funny to make a
show for men. And then I was like, people just
want to see themselves represented. That's what we're all interested in.
So I thought, I'll just interview men about being men
and it'll be kind of like a funny, a funny bit.
So it started kind of just as a joke, and
like I just started going around town like with my
(03:40):
phone and like a bad microphone and just being like.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Hey, I'm asking men, why are you like this?
Speaker 5 (03:45):
And asking them dumb questions about being men, and it
just kind of like weirdly took.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
I love that.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
I love when things happen organically and you can just
really tell that you were literally just walking up to
these guys and being like, tell me why you won't
date an old woman, Like tell me why you're you'res
in your late fifties and your age range is like
twenty two.
Speaker 5 (04:12):
To thirty what so much of this stuff too, I
just like stumble upon, like someone like the age rage range.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Things started because like one guy said.
Speaker 5 (04:25):
Something about, oh, I was dating this woman she was
younger than me, and then I was like picked up
on it.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
It was like why do you date younger women?
Speaker 5 (04:33):
And then that just turned into like a question that
I regularly asked, like what are.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Your age ranges on your apps?
Speaker 5 (04:39):
And then I'm like why, And then you know, it's
just feeds off of itself.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
I love the age range so much because like the
way these guys respond and like, listen, I'm like, I'm
I love men, and I like find I'm a twin brother,
like I fend find men to be really fun. Yeah,
but I just was shocked at how they how they responded.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
I mean, I just was like, I was shocked.
Speaker 5 (05:09):
I love men too, so like people think I'm like
some angry feminists, I'm a feminist and I'm angry, but
I'm not mad really like at men in general. Like
I love men, but I have had, you know, as
a woman, a lot of weird experiences with them my
(05:29):
whole life, as we all have. And I just was
surprised by how like men treat me a certain way
in the world with no cameras, and I was surprised
that it actually seems like amplified when the cameras are on,
Like they're almost emboldened to be even weirder and like creepier.
(05:50):
So like, you know, getting hit on by a man
is not that crazy, but the fact that they're willing
to like do that on camera. I think a lot
of a lot of men too, like think I'm just
like a kid with a camera, Like they don't really
Now they're starting to catch on because people really are.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Seeing the show, but it's a lot of people would
be like.
Speaker 5 (06:11):
Oh, is this your school project, And I'd be like, yeah,
it's still a project.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
That way, I'm dead you know, that is hilarious.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
So I mean, I just I still just I loved
what you just said about how like being you know,
having the camera, like you know, it's kind of amplifying their.
Speaker 4 (06:35):
Reactions and you can see that.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
I just feel like, you know, these online conversations like
they they are that you're having.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Are just like eye opening.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
I mean, you're just you are you know, You're you're
saying things that women are thinking and I just feel like,
what do you think.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Just gets under men's skin? Like what is it?
Speaker 2 (06:57):
So I'm sure sure you've heard the phrase.
Speaker 5 (07:03):
A man's greatest fear is being humiliated, and a woman's
greatest fear is being like, you know, murdered by a man.
And I think this somehow like taps right directly into
the vein of that is a lot of these men
think I'm like intentionally trying to humiliate men, or they're
(07:27):
surprised by my line of questioning that I'm coming up
to them. They think maybe, oh, this girl's going to
like flirt with me, and then I'm like, why are
you like this? And like they think it's they think
I'm trying to embarrass them, and they just something in
them short circuits. It's not there's so many men that
(07:48):
are so cool and that are in on the joke
and that they think it's so funny and they're fans
of the show, but they're not the ones that go viral.
Like I put those videos up too. I'm like, you, guys,
there's plenty of cool guys out here just you know,
taking it all in stride, but yeah, the ones that
(08:10):
really blow up are the ones that get super upset
and like offended by.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
Right, how about the It's like it's I think you
have it pinned on TikTok And it's like the guy
is like, you know, just in his like late twenties
and early thirties, and he seems to be really really
offended by you, but then he's like smiling at you
and asking questions back. So I'm like, I'm like, is
(08:35):
he I was like, is he flirting? Oh?
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Is that the guy? That's like, why the would you
ask me that? That guy? Yeah, he gets very upset. Yeah,
I don't know.
Speaker 5 (08:47):
Again, like it's it's it was the strangest thing because yeah,
when I walked up to him, he was totally friendly,
and then I said that, and it was like I
could see like a cloud, the storm cloud come over him,
Like his whole demeanor changed and he was so filled
with like hatred and rage towards me in that minute,
(09:09):
like I had really pushed something deep deep within him
that So it's a little scary sometimes.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
Yeah, I mean definitely, especially like you're in public and
they're just kind of like getting like all a nerve.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
You're like, it's just a TikTok video.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
You're like you're not trying to like short circuit him.
What's the biggest takeaway that you've had after speaking to
so many different men, Is there just like one continuous theme,
(09:49):
like what is it that they are they're they're saying?
Because there they are saying something. I heard it many times.
I'm just wondering what are they angry? Are they just
mad about being men? Are they lonely?
Speaker 6 (10:09):
Right?
Speaker 2 (10:12):
I think it's all of the above.
Speaker 7 (10:14):
I mean I think, yeah, I don't know where this
like thing. I do think there's something to do with
like the manosphere, like these men that have started podcasts
talking about how they're mad at women for whatever, for
not wanting to sleep with them, or because I think
there is, you know, some entitlement that comes with being
(10:38):
a man and living in a patriarchal society.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
And I think.
Speaker 5 (10:46):
To have their place being questioned is like it's really
messing with some people that I think thought maybe it
was going to be easier or that they should just
like yeah, that that life should be easier and they
should get things more than they are getting them.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
But I am always like confused when a guy's like
men don't know their place anymore. I'm like what do
you mean?
Speaker 5 (11:14):
Just like be like just so y'all, don't I know
it's so hard, just like do your be cool?
Speaker 1 (11:22):
Just do you?
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Yeah, it's not about being men or women.
Speaker 5 (11:25):
It's just like about living your life, like why is
there a place in society?
Speaker 2 (11:30):
But basically my whole.
Speaker 5 (11:32):
Point is I think that's kind of like a like
a manisphere rhetoric is like men being confused by their place.
Speaker 4 (11:40):
It's like, man, do you think too?
Speaker 3 (11:42):
It's because like in the workplace they're now they're being
challenged with you know, with women and with all these
different variables. And then now like you're asking this like
very this question that you know men men recognize themselves
by the cars they drive, the work that they have,
(12:03):
what's in their bank account.
Speaker 4 (12:04):
You know, that's how they identify themselves. So do you
think that like you're just.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Like who are you? And they're like what?
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Right?
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Right?
Speaker 2 (12:14):
They haven't. I mean a lot of but I don't
think it's just men. It's people.
Speaker 5 (12:18):
Like a lot of people just aren't terribly introspective. So
I think it like really throws someone off their game
when you're like asking this very like open ended, kind
of abstract question and maybe they're confused, and so that's
like frustrating. They just go immediately to frustration and rage
(12:40):
because they don't know how to answer it. But yeah,
I think men do you know, so many people do
define themselves sort of by their external world and what
they have and how much money they have.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
And women, now are you know, we are we.
Speaker 5 (13:00):
Had to work harder to get to where we are
and we are killing it. So I think that is
like intimidating for some guys.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
I have a question to you this.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
There's this concept of the male loneliness epidemic. Like I'm like,
wait a minute, wiremen alone, Like, what do you mean
they're lonely?
Speaker 1 (13:20):
Go outside? Like you're the you're guy, you know, Like, yeah,
talk to me about that. What are your thoughts on
this epidemic.
Speaker 5 (13:26):
I think it's just like I think it's probably real
among some men.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
I think a lot of men.
Speaker 5 (13:32):
Are lonely because they're just like they grew up just
playing video games and they don't know how to like
interact with other people, and they have just like poor
social skills and they're spending all their time listening to
you know, andrew utate instead of like going out into
the world. And meeting people, and yeah, it's it's people
(13:55):
not learning social skills. But I think people are lonely.
I mean women are lonely too. Everyone's lonely. We are
all having to learn how to live in this society
where we're like more comfortable behind a computer screen.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
I know.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
And I think that's a direct correlation from COVID. We
were alone, people were on their screens.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Dating and apps are bigger.
Speaker 4 (14:18):
So this podcast is all about, you know, finding love
in your chapter two?
Speaker 3 (14:22):
Yeah, do you think and do you think that women
should be asking men out on a date?
Speaker 1 (14:32):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (14:32):
I mean, yeah, I think I don't do that.
Speaker 8 (14:35):
Yeah, I mean I am in my forties, so I
guess this could be considered chapter two.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
And I and well have you wait, have you been
married before?
Speaker 5 (14:51):
I wasn't married, but you know I did have you know,
a lot of life changes in my thirties and kind
of to start over in my forties. And I ran
up to my current boyfriend.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
But that's because I was doing interviews, So.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
It's really about me.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
Yeah, I was like, why.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Are you like this? What do you think about wine?
Speaker 4 (15:19):
Do you like it?
Speaker 1 (15:20):
Do you like to have a class of wine with me?
That would be hilarious if.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
You know your video. I wasn't hitting on him.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
He just ran up to him and were like, you're hot.
Speaker 5 (15:32):
But it really works. I do think so few women
approach men that. Now that I have like a job
where I approach men for a living, they love it.
Men love being approached by a woman. I think so
many men are so afraid even like you know, interesting, cool, successful,
(15:54):
powerful men, it's really intimidating for them to like go
up to a woman and talk to her. So women,
if you want to go up to men, you.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
Can like they'll like it.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
No man is going to be like, What's I.
Speaker 3 (16:09):
Going to change the dynamic of the hunt, because like
so many men talk to like, you know, when I
talked to me, I mean, I'm just say on this podcast,
and I talked to men a lot about dating as well,
and on my new show, we're talking a lot about
my dating journey.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
And I was in Palm Beach and it was absolutely hideous.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
These men are like, hello, be nice, be nice to
me number one. Yeah, nice, Just be kind, Just be nice,
Just be kind like this, questions, ask questions, Ask me
how my day is, do you know? Just be kind,
Just be nice, and I just I'm just like, really,
I just would never ask.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
I mean, there were guys and I was like, oh god,
is kind of cute.
Speaker 4 (16:52):
And I'm like, no, no, no, no, I'm not asked.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
Came out.
Speaker 5 (16:56):
Yeah, somebody just came on my show and she was
saying that you should just like give a man like
a look and that's how men should know that it's
okay to come to you.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
And I like, so like, let's just a look.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
Ready, like's a world play, It's okay, what's what's your look?
Speaker 2 (17:18):
I looks like this, Okay.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
Ready for mine? Yeah?
Speaker 6 (17:23):
Mine?
Speaker 2 (17:23):
Like yeah, that's good.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
They always say touch your hair.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
If people are like your hair, I'm like, yes, I'm
trying to trash men.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
You gotta like, yeah, like touch your mouth.
Speaker 5 (17:37):
And you just well you can be like yeah, then
you start laughing, you giggle.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Exactly, winking exactly, and then.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
The men know that it's okay to talk to you.
But if you don't do that, So let's just.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
Let's just run through those because this is this is
an audio podcast, and just tell me like, okay, so
winking is good, touching your hair is good?
Speaker 1 (17:57):
What are yeah?
Speaker 5 (17:58):
So I kind of like, you know, you put your
put your head down and you kind of like look
up and you smile.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
You got a smile. People need to smile more, man,
really a smile more.
Speaker 4 (18:10):
But smiling smiling is really really good.
Speaker 3 (18:14):
Okay, let's talk about red flags because I think the
people think when they think of red flags, they think
of them as pink.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
They're not pink, they're red. Red is red. Red is red?
Speaker 2 (18:25):
Yeah, red as red.
Speaker 5 (18:26):
But why would you even want to mess with a
pink flag? Like, no flags, No flags are good unless
it's green.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
I know, I'm like, what are they?
Speaker 3 (18:38):
Like?
Speaker 4 (18:39):
So what are some of the red flags that you've
come across?
Speaker 2 (18:41):
Okay, so.
Speaker 5 (18:43):
Lying he was obvious, but you know so many people
are like, oh I caught him in this little lie, Like,
well then what else is he lying about?
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Right? Lying is not good, even like lying about age
I think is really weird.
Speaker 5 (19:02):
Like I had a guy that I met on on
Hinge a long time a while ago, a couple of
years back, like lied about his age and then I
like found out he was older, and he was like, well,
he got defensive and he got.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Mad at me when I called him out. Yeah, someone
getting mad at you?
Speaker 5 (19:23):
Someone getting defensive defensive a red flag if anyone's like defensive.
Speaker 6 (19:27):
About anything, and I agree, I agree, Like nom.
Speaker 4 (19:41):
So what are like the positive things like that?
Speaker 3 (19:44):
You'll be like, oh, he's saying that he's kind, And
then you're like, why is he saying that he's kind of? Like,
give me some of the things that you've you've you've
seen that like a petty positive but actually, and by
the way, after this, I would have write down a
whole list.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Okay, I think if a guy says he's kind, that's weird.
Why does he need to say it? Or like my dad,
I think he.
Speaker 5 (20:12):
Gave me some advice when I was a little girl,
and he said, never trust anyone who says trust me.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
And I'm like, you know, that's really true.
Speaker 5 (20:21):
Like if someone, especially if someone says that unprompted, you're like,
why why are you saying that?
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Why are you asking me to trust you?
Speaker 5 (20:28):
Have you done anything when people try to tell you, oh,
I'm this kind of person or I do this or
I'm like this, like.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
No, no, no, just me just show me, like be it.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
I love that and consistently be it, consistently be it
not just like oh I was nice once. No, no, no,
it's it's it's an all the time kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
Yeah. Consistency is so crucial.
Speaker 7 (20:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (20:54):
If somebody like is a certain way and then they
just like you see, like a glib or something like
very opposite of what of what they're portraying themselves as
run because they're just trying to hide something.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
Yeah. Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
I'm going to add cheating because cheaters are.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
Going to cheat.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
If they cheated once or if they have cheated in
the past, they're going to cheat again. I mean even
if they say they don't, they they will do things
that they do not feel as qualifying actual cheating, like
emotional relationships. You know, emotional relationships are not physical, YadA, YadA, YadA.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
But cheating is hard.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Now yeah, hard now hard? No, Yeah, Or somebody being like.
Speaker 5 (21:47):
Being like cheap with you, like like anyone any guy
who's like split the check like just no sorry.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
Or like oh my god, like literally when Palm Beach,
I was but I went on a date with this
guy and I said, you know, I was like, oh,
you know, you know, you know, can you blow can
you pay? I do have my hair blown out because
it's Florida because event and he was like, oh, so
now you want me to pay for You're going to
pay for my shave.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
I'm like, what, I'm going to an event for you?
He goes, I paid for your ticket. I'm like, ho, there, Nelly.
Speaker 3 (22:23):
Now you're asking me to pay for a ticket to
an event that I did not want to go to
and zero interested going to?
Speaker 1 (22:30):
Like no, thank you? Yeah, no, awful. I don't like
cheap because I'm not cheap and I do not like cheap.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Yeah, cheap is so on a track.
Speaker 4 (22:37):
I would never split. I would never split a bill
for no.
Speaker 5 (22:42):
No, I'll just I'll just pay for it and then
we'll just never hang out again.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
Exactly, yeah, exactly totally.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
Do men do good men exist?
Speaker 3 (22:52):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Yeah they do. There I'm going to have to I'm
going to do like a features reel of like the.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
Good man I've met streets here, Kelly, here's some good men.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
They do?
Speaker 5 (23:05):
The good men exist? You know, I you know, my
boyfriend is amazing. He's a good man. I was a
little skeptical about like somebody like really like ticking all
my boxes.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
But he does.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
So now I'm like love is real, y'all.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
Okay, So where is this?
Speaker 3 (23:22):
Where where do these good men hang out because I
need the GPS.
Speaker 4 (23:26):
Like yesterday, I'm I'm going to be stalking them like
a spider monkey.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
I interview like a spider monkey.
Speaker 5 (23:35):
I interviewed pro skiers and they were all really nice.
I was like, why are all of these boys so amazing?
And yeah, the Olympian athletes are really sweet. Go for
the Olympians, Girls for the Olympians.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
You guys have to wait for.
Speaker 5 (23:58):
You, but not like not like athletes, like not ones
with egos. Right, I feel like maybe guys that are
like doing like really dangerous things like athletically have less egos.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
I don't know. I don't know if there's one decispect
of men. Yeah, just like guys with egos are not good.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
Holla, you are so funny. I have a couple of
more things to ask you on I do part two.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
We'll be right back
Host
Jana Kramer
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