April 23, 2026 • 47 mins
Haley Sacks, aka Mrs. Dow Jones, wants you to see the green in your chapter two!
Should you have joint checking accounts in a relationship? Are luxury handbags REALLY a good investment?
Pre-order her book HERE
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Speaker 1 (00:14):
Hey, I do Part two.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
It's your host, Cheryl Burke, and I'm joined by one
of my favorite Chapter two gals. It's Joan Vosso's from
The Golden Bachelorette.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Hey, Joan, Hi, how are you.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
It's been a long time, A.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Great It's been a while.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
I've been following you on Instagram, so I know every
day about your life. I'm exactly Today we're talking about
one of the hardest topics in any relationship. And no
it's not sex. Unfortunately, we're talking money. Our guest today
is the host of the Financial Tea podcast and her
new book Future Rich Person, The New Rules for Building
(00:49):
Wealth Even if You're stuck, Broke and that Billionaire Won't
Text you back, is out May twelfth. That's a long
title but means so much. Please welcome Haley Sachs aka
Missus dow Jo. Okay, so, tell us about your financial literacy.
Did you were you raised by parents who were really
good at, you know, investing their money?
Speaker 1 (01:08):
How did you become so great at what you do?
I guess today.
Speaker 4 (01:13):
I definitely did not grow up with parents who pushed
financial literacy in the household. I grew up with what
I call a w SF a Wall Street father. So
ID like to say that, I'm like, if Lebron James's
daughter couldn't shoot a free throw, he never brought it
home with him. And so I grew up like really
(01:38):
confused about money, sort of avoiding it, thinking that it
wasn't for me, that maybe I lacked this chip inside
of me that would make it possible for me to
manage finances, and so basically avoided it at all costs.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Right, Yeah, I'm sure I can relate, but I did.
I was raised with parents who were very like a
stingy you know, with money.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
But I feel like we have so much to talk about.
We have so much to talk about.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
So this podcast is I do part two obviously, and
a lot of our listeners are learning basically just how
to handle money matters in general, just better the second
time around. What is would you say, the number one
financial mistake you see most married couples make that can
just fast track towards divorce.
Speaker 4 (02:31):
You know, it really starts, Cheryl, before people get married.
And I see so many couples because I mean, marriage
is a legal contract at the end of the day,
Like that's what it really should be viewed as. And
I just see so many couples sign that contract without
(02:51):
knowing much about the other person's finances, about how much
depth they have about their relationship with money, about you know,
how much they make, how much debt, like just all
these really important questions people avoid because they think it's
awkward and they want to walk down the aisle. And
(03:12):
sometimes we get so focused on reaching that finish line,
which I feel like society really does put marriage as
like for women, especially this finish line. We got to
get there and what it's right within your grasp. You
can sort of fool yourself into making a bad decision.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Right Joan, tell me about you. I mean, I mean
I know you, but our listeners.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
You know you're you're a widow.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Share your experience, I guess with just taking control of
just all the finances after your husband passed.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
Yeah, that was kind of crazy, to be honest. I
didn't know what the heck I was doing and that
was back of that and I go, gosh, how irresponsible
to not ever like dive into that part of our marriage.
But he was really good at it. He was the breadwinner.
I was a stay at home mom for most of
our marriage. I worked part time here and there, consulting,
doing things. But he was the money manager and I
(04:10):
did not worry about it. And then he passed away,
and I didn't prepare myself as he was dying. You know,
he had pancreatic cancer. He lived for almost two years
with that. If I look back at it, I probably
should have been more aware, but I was like in
caregiver mode. I wasn't in let me, what am I
going to do after he passes away. I was planning
on him living, so when it happened, I was kind
(04:32):
of blindsided, to be honest, And I'm a smart woman.
I have a degree in computer science, I had gone
back to school, I had gotten another degree in interior
design and was planning on starting a business right after
my last kid. He was a senior in college when
I was doing this, and then John passed away, and
then all of a sudden, my life had changed. And
I remember one like really big wake up call. I
(04:53):
had a lot, but one like really struck me, and
that was American Express. Of all things, you know, we
all counted credit cards. They're always there for us. And
I went to use my American Express card and it
had been canceled and It wasn't because of unpaid bills.
It was for no other reason that I wasn't the
primary card holder and he had passed away, and somehow
(05:14):
they figured that out and they canceled my card. And
we had been cardholders. We had a huge limit. My
husband made a good amount of money, and it was
never a question. And then all of a sudden, I
didn't have a credit card. It was the craziest thing,
and I didn't know, so I applied. I then had
to apply for the credit card, and I had like
a you know, five thousand dollars limit or something. It
(05:36):
was something like very kind of appalling, and I had
to work way up to it. So I started out
as like a like an infant, or like a college student,
somebody who just came out into the working world. And
I was fifty eight years old.
Speaker 4 (05:48):
It was crazy.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
A lot of other wake up calls, including like health insurance.
So now we don't have a business. My husband's business
folded after he passed away. I no longer have a
health insurance.
Speaker 4 (05:59):
You know.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
I was starting like a child, like a person coming
out of college. I was starting to know, and I
figured I had to figure it all.
Speaker 4 (06:06):
I had no choice.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
I had to figure it out, and how how did
you do?
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Who did you turn to or did you have a
business advisor or did you turn to any anyone?
Speaker 3 (06:15):
Unfortunately, I didn't have the problem that I didn't have money.
My husband had life insurance, so I had money. I
just didn't know how to use it. And I didn't
know how to use it smartly, Like I didn't know
what I should be, you know, investigating. I didn't know.
I was like, I need health insurance, Like how do
I go about doing that? As a person I no
longer has a business to rely on. Never had that
(06:36):
problem before. You know, I needed a credit card. I
needed I needed to buy a house by the way,
right right right When John got sick, we moved to
a townhouse that I rented because I needed an elevator
for him. He couldn't go up and downstairs. So I
was renting a home. And now all of a sudden,
I have to buy a house and I have no
credit so crazy stuff. It's not that I didn't have money.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
I had money in the bank.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
I had five million dollars of course, right right right.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
And you can't They don't care if you have money
to make They care, if you have a credit score,
if you can pay a mortgage.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Do you run into this a lot, Haley, Like, have
you seen this type of scenario?
Speaker 1 (07:09):
This is the common thing. What can people do?
Speaker 4 (07:12):
Yeah? I mean it's so interesting because I feel like
a question that I get asked a lot. It's pretty generic,
but it's like who's your work for? And I feel
like they want me to be like, you know, twenty
to thirty year olds like you know, But the truth
is that the women that I love helping the most
are the ones just like you, Joan, who are starting
(07:33):
over and like, those are the stories that mean the
most to me and that I get a lot of
and look like I'm a bit younger than you. Like,
even in that generational shift, the women have taken so
much more control of their finances. But we have to
remember that, you know, we weren't even allowed to have
(07:54):
credit cards till nineteen seventy four. Like really, in order
to have any upward mobility, you had to marry a man,
and you basically went from belonging to your parents to
them belonging to someone else. And it was quite the
norm to you know, be passive about finances. But yeah,
(08:16):
I hear this. You know, what I'm really hearing is
that you had a money aha moment, which is something
that I talk about in the book, and that could
happen to someone. It happened to me in my twenties,
but it could also happen when you're fifty eight and
your husband passes away, which I'm so sorry, but it's like,
you know, whenever that happens, the most important thing, And
it sounds like you did this is to hit it
(08:37):
head on. But I would say, like to anyone listening,
if you're in a relationship and you are in the
dark about your finances, a it's very important to have
a plan about what happens when your spouse dies. And
it's not a sexy thing to think about. But I
actually have a resource called the Seven Documents that you
(08:59):
Need in Case You Die that you get when you
pre order the book, and it has all this information.
And I feel like no one just ever says to you, like, hey, Joan,
like here's what you need. You need a pod for
so you can get access to the bank account. You
need a todd so you can get access to the UH,
to the investment accounts, you need a will do you have,
(09:19):
Do you need a trust like, you know, you need
to make sure that you're even things like digital responsibility,
Like there's a feature on the iPhone that lets you
have access to someone's digital life if they pass away,
which is like I have a French like who's going
through that right now? And it's really hard to like
(09:40):
track down everything digitally from the person who's who passed away.
But it's like, you know, there's a lot of logistics
with death, and you were in a great a really uh,
you were in a position that I think a lot
of people would wish for, which was that you had money.
(10:00):
But what happens with a lot of people is that
they don't know what's going on, and then they're not
only are they grieving, but they're also dealing with the
fact that they have a lot less than they have
or expected, and they're also having to you know, come
to terms with that reality.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
Yeah. Well, surprisingly, like it sounds like I had like
a good amount of money obviously did, but I actually
went back to work because I felt like I didn't
have enough, and I also wanted access to healthcare when
you're fifty eight like important, and you know, it's like
a sad reality, because that's when you're going to start
needing it, and certainly my husband did. And so I
went and got a job because I thought, well, I
(10:38):
don't want to have to just rely on this income
that I have, like this investment income. I need to
be more proactive about my future. Only fifty eight and
this needs to ask me a really freaking long time.
I'm hoping.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
I love that about you. You just life has just started.
You know, there really is no it's not too late
for anything.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
It's really not too late. And I mean to enjoy
you know, you you work your whole life. So so
my husband and I worked our whole life. We raised
our four kids. We have our last kid in college,
and like the goal is, like you have resources now
you've worked, you've built this life together, and you're going
to like travel and by the second house and do
all these things. And then all of a sudden he
(11:18):
was gone, and all of the stuff that we saved
for now was now just going to have to keep
me alive, you know, keep me. He was going to
continue working, so we were going to have all these
great resources. Now, like that income, like the income sort
of stopped and now I had to plan for this
fixed amount of income that I had never done before.
Speaker 4 (11:37):
Yeah, the dream huge yep.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
Thanks for sharing back to you, Haley.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Before marrying somebody, what should every couple you think like experience.
Should there be a five year plan? Should there be
a retirement plan? Should there be a joint accounts?
Speaker 4 (11:53):
So I really believe in having a joint account but
also having individuals accounts because I just think that it's
so important to be able to leave if you need to,
even if it's like your dream relationship. Like I share
a story in the book of someone who was in
a relationship that she thought was her forever and then
(12:16):
it really took a turn, and because she had that
money on the side versus doubling down on the funds
that they had together, she was able to basically save
her own life and get what she called a freedom apartment.
And so for me, I also like, I make my
own money, and I really like making my own money,
and so I think that like I would just never
want to be in a position where I had to
ask anyone or justify any of my purchases because it's like,
(12:40):
I work hard, I make good money, Like I don't
want to have to ask for that. But I do
think that like when your life becomes entingled with someone,
you need to treat it like a business. So it
really is about setting up a structure. So what does
that mean. It means a you're having money dates. Money
is a relationship, and just like any relationship, if you
(13:02):
don't spend time with it, then it's never going to blossom.
It's never going to get deeper, it's never it's actually
going to get worse. Relationship's got a lot worse if
you're never together, And so you need to do that
with your partner. But I also think there's something so
amazing about having a partner financially because it gives you
someone to build with and dream with, and not that
(13:26):
you can't do that on your own, but I think
that like it doesn't have to be something that makes
your life smaller. It can actually be something that brings
you so much wealth and like helps you expand your
financial horizons. But like you need to normalize talking about
money and make it something that you do together even
when you don't want to.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
Kind Of how soon into a relationship do you think
is a good time to have those conversations, because they're
super uncomfortable. I mean, if you think about, like why
is it easier to talk about sex and it is
to talk about money in a relationship. I mean it's
it's difficult. I still have a hard time talking to
talk about it.
Speaker 4 (14:00):
I'm engaged. Wow, Okay, love that, congratulations, thank you. You know,
I'd say the right time is usually when you're at
one of those crossroads, like you know, you get to
the point where it's like you're going to move in together,
you're engaged, you're getting a dog, like where things get
a little bit more complicated, you know. And but the
(14:20):
thing is is like whenever you tie your finances to someone,
like even if you're not married to someone, but say
you're dating them seriously, and so you guys are like, okay,
like we should get a credit card together because like
then we can you know, use the bonuses to travel
and we're always going to dinner together and like this
makes sense we have shared expenses. But it's like when
you do that, then say that person defaults on the
credit card, it's on you. So you never you always
(14:44):
at the end of the day go into this life
and we leave with one person and it's ourself and
a lot of people get confused in relationships and lose
that plot, and so you know, nothing is forever, but
also exactly nothing forever. Statistically, women outlive men, so it's like,
you know, most women are going to go through some
(15:06):
version of what Joan did, where it's like, you know,
you have to deal with the consequences of what you've
been avoiding.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
That's the key.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
You're gonna have to deal with it at some point,
so you should really start to think about it.
Speaker 4 (15:19):
Yeah, deal with it throughout.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
Sure, it happened to you the way that you were
agreeing with what you were saying.
Speaker 4 (15:26):
No experience with.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
This, I mean no, not not to that extent. I mean,
when I was married, we kept everything separate for the
most part, right, So we did start something, but it
was like, you know, I wasn't married for very long
as you know, so that didn't really mean anything to
be quite honest. But yeah, everything was pretty much separate.
(15:50):
And I mean, yeah, that's all I could say. And
that was intentional.
Speaker 4 (15:56):
Yeah, yeah, maybe there was like a part of you
that knew it wasn't forever too.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
It's my parents.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
My mom is like, she's a businesswoman, so she instilled
all of this in me. And she was raised very
very poor in the Philippines and created a business and
a life for herself on her own and was raising
me as a single parent. And so she has lived
every part of life from not having food to you know,
(16:23):
obviously now very wealthy.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
But that took a lot of work.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
And the one thing that she's always instilled in me
since this little girl is just don't ever depend on
a man for money period.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
M I feel like we're talking about we have like
such good conversations about single women and people that have,
you know, starting their dating careers together. I am in
the chapter of life where like you, you know, maybe
have lost a spouse or maybe you're divorced and you're
going on too, like your chapter two. And I have
a scenario because I certainly have friends that are like
(16:55):
kind of dating men and they're in their second chapter
of life. What if you're a dating man and he
is in after two and he's always had a great career,
but his ex wife took him to the cleaners in
their divorce and now he's back at square one and
has wrapped up a bunch of credit card debt. And
if you were to make and if you were to
make things more serious, would you have to take on
(17:19):
his debt? How does that work if you marry him? Yeah,
if you marry him.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
It depends what state.
Speaker 4 (17:28):
It depends on what state. But to me, that sounds
like a guy with money trauma.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
That sounds like you should run for the hills.
Speaker 4 (17:35):
Yeah, and someone, yeah, someone, I sort of agree because
it's like it's just the way that it was worded.
It feels like someone who's looking at women as a
villain and it's going to maybe want to like get
revenge on women just in general from what they went through,
versus really wants to build like out of a place
(17:58):
of integrity.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
Let's talk about money trauma, because it is an actual thing.
I mean, it's not just it's we're not just throwing
that phrase around, right like, because it is like you
can live in scarcity like my mom did, and my mom,
I have to say, still does, because she will always
feel like she's poor no matter what. Right, Like she
will walk by a penny and she will literally pick
it up because every penny counts, you know, and like
(18:32):
that's just and she's getting older, you know, it's like
she's turning even worse into that you know.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
So how can you break that trauma? How can you
do that?
Speaker 3 (18:44):
If you like however, like if you were raised with
frugal parents, if you're raised with.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
This generational trauma, right, Like it's more psychological, it's like
you know psychology, but have you experienced this Hailey?
Speaker 4 (18:56):
Yeah? So Actually in my book Future Rich Person, I
start the book. The first part of the book there's
four parts, is mindset, and it's called Part one. Face it.
Because I can teach you anything about money. I can
teach you about index funds, about emergency funds, about debt payoff,
about investing, but none of what I say is going
(19:20):
to stick if we do not identify and fix and
work through why and what is the root of your behavior?
That is everything. That's what I always say. People say, oh,
should I get a therapist or a financial planner, and
I say therapists, go to the therapist first, work through it,
(19:44):
because you know your behavior is going to keep reflecting
your self identity. So you need to shift your self
identity to be a future rich person if you want
to actually take control of your financial life.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
And first you have to heal, right, you have to
identify your triggers.
Speaker 4 (20:05):
You have to calm down in the moment. So much
of financial like so many financial issues are just I
think from like lack of emotional regulation. There's a lot
that you need to sort of work through. Uh. It's
not that it's impossible, but it's sort of the same
for anything like, say you're in bad relationships and you
(20:27):
want to get in a good relationship, You'll have to
work through the trauma of your past relationships. Say you
want to like fix relationship with food. It's not just
like going on a diet. Everything everything, everything is you
have to get down to the root and take responsibility
for yourself.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Hmm.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
I love how the book you read late you talk
about your own experiences like so freely and openly, and
it kind of like we gain your trust as we
read your book. I spent a lot of my weekend
reading your book.
Speaker 4 (20:56):
And I love that it's fun to read right Like
it's like you actually.
Speaker 3 (21:01):
So, I took all kinds of pictures on my phone.
I can't read them right now about like like passages
that I love that I wanted to like tell my
daughter about, and now they really is good.
Speaker 4 (21:11):
You're taught.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
I feel like you were talking to a friend and
I felt like I related, like I knew all those
people you were talking about, Like you, you know, you'll
give some quotes about or a conversation you had with
somebody and you say you and then her, and then
you and then her, and I feel like, I'm like,
I know that conversation I had that with my daughter.
You talked about you know that you didn't feel like
you were going to be good at this because you're
(21:31):
not a type A personality. Yeah, you have these friends
that were type A and they were organized, and you
were the person who's going to the bar with your
passport because you couldn't find your driver's license.
Speaker 4 (21:39):
And I'm oh, my god.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
I called my daughter. I'm like, oh, I just met
your like twin. My daughter still doesn't and hasn't for
like three years to go to ours. So I felt
like to everybody. So I'm just like giving you a
plug for your book. It was just so much fun
to read. You sprinkled in all this great advice and
it was almost like you were giving therapy and financial
(22:01):
device mixed in with a bunch of really funny stories.
Speaker 4 (22:04):
I really love that you're giving me so many chills.
It's like so weird to have the book like being
read now, but it's that's exactly what I wanted it
to be. Like was where it's like a brownie with
spinach in it, where it's kind of yeah, like it's
the kind of book that you actually because how many
times do we buy a finance book or like a
self help book and it's like we never actually crack
(22:24):
it because it's like fun. Yeah, it's like I it
feels like self punishment to do it, and it's like,
I what has made the biggest difference for me? And
I would say this, like about changing anything in my
life is when I'm able to find a way to
make the change enjoyable. And I think that like with finances, yes,
(22:45):
there's going to be an element of cutting back and
of like choosing your heart when you really want to
improve your financial life, but there's also so much possibility.
And I think especially for you know your audience, people
who are really looking to start over and you are
both great examples of this, like just the abundance of
opportunity and how surprising life can be and how much
(23:08):
you can actually shift things and that they are in
your control. And like that's why I talk a lot
in the book about learned financial helplessness, because especially right now,
like economically, you know, the housing market is so messed up,
the student loans are so high. Since twenty twenty, wages
have increased seven percent, but inflation has increased sixty seven percent.
(23:29):
Like there's so many reasons why not. But the ones
who win are the ones who understand that the game
was not built for everyone to win. It was actually
built by the people who are winning to keep ring.
But when you learn the rules, which is why I
wrote the New Rules of Building Wealth, then you too
(23:51):
have the opportunity to get a seat at the table,
no matter where you're starting from.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
I would love that figure out how you figured all
this out. You don't have a background in it. You
were in media, You had a really cool career that
wasn't making you any money, and you looked at your
life and you're like, Okay, this isn't working. How the
heck do you start this career?
Speaker 4 (24:11):
How do you become you?
Speaker 3 (24:13):
Because it seems like such an aspiration that most of
us could never even think about.
Speaker 4 (24:18):
It's so funny. It's like the I would when I
started influencing was not a thing, and so like everyding, and.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
I think that both of us. Yeah, I can say
the thing.
Speaker 4 (24:31):
Yeah, And so it's it came from a place of
like where I'm patient zero and I needed to help
myself and so and I thought in my head, oh okay,
there's definitely other people that feel like this, and I
wanted to make a difference. But like it really I
think that when you create something from your like deepest wound,
(24:53):
that's where the magic really comes from. And so like
that's how it all happen. But I also think that, like,
you know, thank god I never worked in finance, like
they think all that. It's like that I that I
that I have the career before this that I did,
because doesn't that just prove that anyone can do it?
Like that's sort of what I try to get across
(25:13):
in the book too, where it's like, yeah, I am
the girl with the password at the bar. I'm not
walking on an incline with my like meal prepped chicken
and hair washing schedule. Like I was on a date
last week and my haircut on fire, like and I've
run a multimillion dollar business.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
Girls, Like it's like, how did that happen?
Speaker 4 (25:31):
Oh? I mean we were leaving over to kiss. There
was a little candle. It was I've got extensions.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
In that's not a sign. I don't know what it is.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
That is so funny. I love to see now her
book is sprinkled through through the whole thing with these
stories like her adderall addiction like I love. I wouldn't
be surprised that was vodka right there. I mean, I
know it looked like that.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
Actually, take a swig. It's past five o'clock, right I know.
Speaker 4 (25:57):
Oh yeah, I'm drinking vodka right now. I'm drinking like
thirteen dollars water from me.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
I was like, you're just killing it. That takes or
at least my mind. I don't know.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
But you're just so relatable that nobody like you don't
intimidate us. I don't feel like you have this Harvard
degree and you're telling us how to do it in
a way that none of us could do it. You
are the one that's drinking the vodka in the podcast.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
I'm not drink I'm drinking of water.
Speaker 4 (26:20):
But I I but I next time I see you
will have a martini. But I but I you know,
I love a martini. But I do feel like that
that there's you know, there's a lot of financial experts
out there that make you feel like you have to
be a certain way in order to do this, and
it's important for me to be like, no, you just
have to be you and like it's actually you don't
even you just need systems. Like That's the biggest thing
(26:41):
too that I talk about in the book that's been
the biggest reason that I've become a millionaire is like
automation and you know, also forcing myself sometimes to do
shit I don't want to do. Like I say in
the book, I have a money date every month. It's
really important. I never want to do it. I never
want to do it. I forced myself to do it.
But then once I do it, I'm fine. It works.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
It's not a money date, so it's a threat time.
Speaker 4 (27:05):
So money is a relationship. If you don't spend time,
you know, with someone or something in a relationship, their
relationship is going to go to shit. But most people
manage their money off of vibes, like they're avoiding their
bank statements. They don't look at their credit card bills.
They're sort of just like you know, grin and bearing
it and swiping it and hoping for the best. They're
forgetting about packages that they need to return. There, you know,
(27:28):
they have subscriptions they didn't cancel. They're not on top
of it.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
Descriptions.
Speaker 4 (27:32):
Yeah, and it just feels so overwhelming. And I think
that it's it is every day something that will weigh
on you. So you need to create a system where
you have the time set to take care of it,
so then you give yourself the freedom and the energy
to live your life without that weighing you down. Like
it's actually the way to live a better life. And
(27:54):
so yeah, it's just set time every month that I
review my finances, that I take care of all this
great finance. Yeah, I open my mail, Like all the
shit that I don't want to do happens then. And
once I'm doing it, you can make yourself do anything.
And you start and you're going and it's not that bad.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
But it's like not that scary. I think people are
just scared.
Speaker 4 (28:13):
Oh my god, it's not scary at all. And what
you realize also too, Like I think that's what's so
interesting about this whole idea of like financial dependency for
women is like actually, like the most feminine cool thing
is the being in control of your finances and having
like the power to choose your own life, like being
able to like make your own decisions, to say no
(28:35):
to shit that doesn't serve you, to buy yourself what you.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
Want, to walk away, if you need to walk away,
you have to.
Speaker 4 (28:41):
Take to travel to like take care of the people
that you love. Like this is you're the first generations
of women who even had that opportunity. And it's like,
I take it so seriously for us to take advantage
of that and to embrace it, because you know, the
patriarchy doesn't want us to be in control of our
finances because it keeps us dependent.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
And if a man feels emasculated because of it, that's
not your problem, that's his problem. You know.
Speaker 3 (29:06):
It's funny. I had that conversation with one of my
first dates with so Chalka as the person I met
on my season of The Golden Bacherette Haley Case who
don't know and so he was on one of our
first dates on TV on camera. I made a statement
about like being financially secure, and I think I mentioned
a number to him, and later on in our after
(29:30):
we were engaged, he said, why did you tell me
about that. Why did you mention that, Like on one of
our first days, I said, because I wanted you to
know that I didn't need your money and that I
wasn't in this for money. And I just put that
out right away, and let's just move on from that,
because I never ever want to be dependent on a man.
I had that I was married, and now I'm financially independent,
and it feels really good to know that I can
(29:50):
get my own American Express now, even though I'm afraid
to open the statement up. Pretty much every month that
it comes, it sets on my counter like five days.
But I know that I.
Speaker 4 (29:58):
Got the app, girl, and then it you have the
app and it's in your like digital wallet. It makes
it so much easier. But like it's why is it
so scary, Like it's like you you're a smart girl,
Like it's like this is seventh grade math. Like we
have been so conditioned, we have been so brainwashed. It
is not that hard. It's not that scary. Put on
(30:19):
a song you like, you can drink your vodka to
the bottle, whatever takes to get there, do it. Because
I think.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
What's scary though, in Jones defense, is like it's just
like you know I like to buy stuff.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
Yeah, tell me about it. I bought all of Sephora
during this Sephorest savings event. Just this best.
Speaker 4 (30:36):
You know, it's not so funny the Sephort savings event
and everyone is like.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
Well, it's not even that much you're saving.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
Yeah, that's something about investment options quickly are luxury goods
ever a good idea like Bronzer versus Eschanel bag.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
Oh my god, I like I could.
Speaker 4 (30:55):
We fell for the all the Burken stuff?
Speaker 1 (30:59):
Oh I haven't. I haven't done that one yet. I
haven't gotten there. I've invested in that.
Speaker 4 (31:03):
Yeah, it's they're not in Look here's the thing, Like
I sell it. No, So here's my issue with it
is there's a lot of like media hype around burkins
being as good of an investment as the stock market.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
Oh my god, really yeah.
Speaker 4 (31:22):
Oh my god. It's everywhere where they're like the Birkins
will beat the S and P five hundred. And the
truth is it's like if you're getting the like Lauren
Sanchez special where it's like the most rare ass burkein
in Paris and you're like never act actually wearing it
and it's hermetically sealed and then you resell it and
there's like three of them in the world. Great, you're
(31:43):
gonna make a huge return because.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
You sell it.
Speaker 4 (31:46):
Yeah, but also any good that is in demand, that
is so scarce and in great condition, is going to
hold its value or increase. But the Burkean resale market
is flooded with inventory, and you will make some of
your money back, for sure, But it's not an investment.
And I think that it's crazy to have normalized twenty
(32:08):
five thousand dollars handbags as this like savvy financial choice,
when really that's a fashion choice. And I love fashion,
don't get me wrong, but it's it's how you view it.
If you're getting a burkin because you love it, it's cute,
you want to wear it. Great, but it's not. None
of these bags are investment pieces. They will maybe hold
(32:29):
some of their value, but it's like you're maybe going
to hold like fifty percent of the value. I mean,
I am very clued into the luxury resale market. I
used to flip a lot of bags and like, it's.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
A hole bags, what do you mean, Oh my gosh.
Speaker 4 (32:44):
I would go to Japan, I would go to Paris,
I would buy rare bags and then I would well,
this would be like if the dollar was really strong
in Paris, and I would go and find vintage Chanel
bags or whatever, and then I would bring them back.
It's like fun, so fun, and I love wearing them.
Like it's like I have a fabulous bag collection, and
like that's like something that's just like is fun in
my life. But it's not something that I look to
(33:06):
as a way that I'm building wealth for my future.
That's what my stock portfolio is for. So I don't
think it's kind of like girl math, Like we don't
need to fool ourselves. If we want to get a
bag and we can afford the bag, get the bag and.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
Enjoy the bag. Yeah, No need to justify it.
Speaker 4 (33:20):
No, No, I don't need to justify it. Some things
are just frivolous fun and like I'm I fall for
like all the girl stuff, Like you know, I like
to get my nails done, I like makeup, I like
my hair, I like clothes. Like it's all a pink
tax and I don't know, it makes me feel good,
it makes me feel calm.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
You can write it off great, yeah, and I write
off a lot of it.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
Exactly So how about like vintage cars, like if you
were I'm aging myself at ja leto, you know.
Speaker 4 (33:58):
It depends on the car. Yeah, It's like, you know,
watches can actually be a really good.
Speaker 1 (34:03):
Eend Yeah, right, like a Rolex.
Speaker 4 (34:06):
Yeah, or you know, like a you know what.
Speaker 2 (34:08):
Actually, no, my father passed away and he had a
few Roles watches, and honestly I didn't even end up
selling it because they were giving offering for it.
Speaker 4 (34:18):
So I think it all depends on the asset and true,
but you know, the best place to put your money
is in the stock market, and like trying to get
rich quick in all these other ways is just going
to be something that ultimately prevents you from investing to
(34:40):
your full ability.
Speaker 3 (34:42):
So can we talk to about something like totally less glamorous?
But I know that a lot of listeners are single moms,
and right, I mean, how can you remove the overwhelming
feeling of saving for your future and your kid's future
if you only have one income? It sounds impossible, that's
(35:03):
really hard.
Speaker 4 (35:04):
But what I will say is like you have to
put your own oxygen mask on first, because kids can
take out loans for school, but you cannot take out
loans for retirement, and so it's like, you know, sounds
awesome to you know, give your kid everything that they
(35:25):
want and all these things, but a financial boundaries are
so important for children. Teaching them the value of a dollar,
showing them what you're working for, and including them in
that process I think is like so inspiring. But also,
don't prioritize their future over yours, because then you also
perpetuate a cycle of in like a family money cycle,
(35:47):
where then they will have to do that with their
kids because they won't have retirement funds and then they'll
have to rely on their kids for it, you know
what I mean.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
So break the cycle now, Yeah, break the cycle.
Speaker 4 (35:58):
Now.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
You're said than done? Though, isn't it so.
Speaker 4 (36:02):
Much easier said than done? I think it really depends
on your community too. Yeah, it's really hard if you're in,
you know, a neighborhood where people are in a different
socio economic venue, because then it like puts so much
pressure on what's normal. But you know, single moms like
that is truly they are doing God's work. Like that
(36:25):
is such a hard position to be in. And I
just think, like, yeah, you've already given up so much
to take care of that child, like, don't give up
your future too, you know, And by just taking care
of them and getting them out the door and like
literally like like that's giving them a huge lag up
(36:46):
from everyone else.
Speaker 3 (36:47):
Yeah, and preparing them maybe go to college and then
they break the cycle themselves. They go and get a
great education and can support themselves. And you're good thinking
about being a mom. And I have four kids, they're
all grown. I actually got them credit cards, but I
know that people talk about getting your kids a credit
card so they can start building well some you know,
(37:09):
things that I ended up not having. I didn't have
any credit and so like do you recommend that or
when do you recommend it?
Speaker 4 (37:17):
At? What age it?
Speaker 3 (37:18):
Like what is the scenario that that is good?
Speaker 4 (37:20):
Yeah, so what you're you know, it's so interesting that
you asked that, Joone, because like you obviously were someone
who really got the short end of the stick for
not having a credit history, so you understand firsthand how
important it is to really build that credit at a
young age. And so what you're talking about is adding
someone who's under eighteen to your card as an authorized user.
And for many credit cards, they have a limit that
(37:43):
you could only do this when the child is sixteen,
but there are some cards where you can do it
when the child is much younger. And it doesn't mean
that you have to give your child that card to use.
You could put like your Netflix subscription on it and
put it on auto pay and stick it in a
drawer and they never need to know about it. But
it will begin to build their credit histories. Then they
(38:05):
could get instead of getting a starter card, they could
get a rewards card. Or if they need to rent
their first apartment, they'll be able to do it. Like
it just gives them, you know, they need to get
a loan for a car, they're going to get a
better rate, Like it gives them a little credit score
is basically your financial GPA. So it's like it's your score.
(38:25):
It's like it tells lenders how trustworthy you are with money.
So like for you, Joan, when you didn't have a
credit history, they were like, fuck, no, I'm not giving
that girl a mortgage, like she has no there's no
one can attest that she's going to pay it back.
I got to staying hell out of Dodge, you know,
so we need it's like a track record that shows
(38:47):
like okay, you're someone who it's good for the banks
or whoever's on me the money to do business with.
And so yeah, you can absolutely set your kids up
with a car, and I think that's an excellent idea.
There's also a lot of other great hacks in the
book how to Build Generational Wealth, because you know, if
you do have even like one hundred dollars a month
to put towards your children to their future, I mean,
(39:10):
like I said, you have to put your own mask
on first, but that little you know, one hundred dollars
could fifty dollars over time with compound interests can grow
so exponentially. So this is where I'm saying, it's so
much about understanding how things work versus even having so
much money or like, you know, any sort of other sophistication,
(39:31):
Like we just live in a system where it's never taught.
And so that's why the book is so powerful, because
it gives you these cheat codes that you know, you
can use to really get ahead in life and to
put your children ahead too.
Speaker 3 (39:44):
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, can I ask you a question. I
know that you have kind of indicated that the stock
market is gives you the best ROI I know in
your book, you talked about really basic things like making
sure that you have a savings account that is or
a bank account that is not charging you all kinds
of fees, and then having a savings account so you
actually earned some interest on the money you have in
(40:06):
the bank, and a decent one, not one that is
giving you like a point oh four percent.
Speaker 1 (40:10):
Return or whatever.
Speaker 3 (40:12):
But I have a question about investing. Okay, so let's
say that you want to invest in the stock market.
I'm already in it. I'm asking this as a general
question because I have like a stockbroker, but like what
kind of fees should you expect? What ones are reasonable?
Like you talked about this in banking, but I maybe
I haven't gotten to that point in the book yet.
But do you ever talk about it when it comes
(40:32):
to investing in the stock market? What is reasonable? What
are the reasonable fees to pay?
Speaker 4 (40:37):
Yeah, it's such a good question, Joan, because it's like
fees really are the killer of profit, and people don't
understand usually their fees with these advisors. And so what
I talk about in the book is how there's two
kinds of two different fee structures with financial advisors. So
one is a percentage of what your earning. And then
(41:01):
the other is hourly and I think for most people
an hourly uh sort of just planner is really all
that you need because you can do it on your own.
But sometimes it's nights to have someone like tell, you know,
set out the plan for you. Maybe you want you
want something that's like a bit more in depth, but
then you're able to go and like make those decisions
(41:23):
on your own. But you know, fees can get crazy,
like I've seen like and that when you look at
it over ten twenty years, it's like it could be
tens of hundreds of thousands of dollars in profit easily.
Really look for like one percent.
Speaker 1 (41:40):
Now, how about for those who are in like the entertainment.
Speaker 2 (41:44):
World where you have business managers and you know, like
at the end of the day, I don't do taxes
and I never plan on doing them in that sense.
Speaker 4 (41:53):
Yeah, but I mean me too, I have a I
have an accountant for sure, and they they're so like
they help me optimize so much because that's like being
a business owner. And also that's the other thing in
the book is like I really break down how to
start your own business because like we are the biggest
generation of business owners, and no one sits us down
(42:15):
and says, hey, here's what s CORP is, Here's what
LLC is, here's why right right, here's what you put
away for taxes.
Speaker 2 (42:22):
But I mean, mind you, this is not just an
entertainment industry. My parents have one like it. It's like,
you know, you do get help, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (42:29):
You get help. But I'm saying like the actual structure
of like a like a business, Like we all romanticize, oh,
we're going to start a business, but it's like, no
one actually ever tells you here, do it in the
best way. So that was so important for me to
include because the majority of people who read this, I
feel like are not majority, but like a good amount
are going to not be working in corporate but actually
(42:50):
be working for themselves. But you know, like fifteen percent.
Speaker 1 (42:53):
I would say is normal.
Speaker 4 (42:56):
Yeah, I'd say fifteen, maybe twenty, But like, ye.
Speaker 3 (43:03):
Don't be paying marty mm hmmm, yeah, I mean I
think people would not.
Speaker 4 (43:07):
I woant to pay over twenty to be honest, like
I would like for me, I'm paying fifteen to my
business manager, but he's sort of like my business.
Speaker 1 (43:15):
Partner, so it feels right, of course you're still the CEO.
Speaker 4 (43:18):
Yeah, And I really believe also, like he worked so hard.
I believe so deeply in paying people well, because like
there's just such a bigger cost to having to replet
someone than there is to uh making sure they stay.
And so if I love working with someone like and
they're doing a great job, like I just that's not
something I will ever be stingy on, Like I just
(43:39):
like my businesses has to be doing better than for
me to be worrying about like giving you the raise
that you deserve. That's not where I would ever cut costs.
Speaker 2 (43:49):
Haley, I can't leave this. It went really fast, this
whole conversation. Thank you so much for your time. But
I want to let's put the book again because I
can't wait.
Speaker 1 (43:58):
To read it.
Speaker 4 (43:58):
You're gonna like it, Cheryl, I want will you DM
me when you start reading it?
Speaker 1 (44:01):
Of course? Are you going to do an audible version?
Speaker 4 (44:04):
Yeah? Yeah. One thing I'll say about what's really cool
for your audience is that if when you pre order
the book, you get seven hundred dollars worth of freebies,
So the book is like thirty dollars, but then you're
getting all these extra guides, AI tools, generational wealth planners,
credit card tool, like everything that you need to be
(44:27):
a future rich person comes when you pre order, because
I really wanted to make it like, you know, just
so valuable for people. And so if you're listening and
you're intrigued, definitely pre order. And you could pre order
the audible, which is so helpful too, because and I
read the whole thing. It's so fun. I'm a big
audible girly too. But I will say there is something
(44:48):
nice about getting the physical book and then sure highlight
it and you can there's I have checklists at the
end of each chapter of like the action steps that
you should take, but audible as well, you'll get a PDAF.
Speaker 3 (45:03):
I love the Actually, I love how you like kind
of organize the book chapter like I kind of know
what I'm going to get at the end that I'm
going to get the checklist, so if I'm not like
and I'm reading it for pleasure, but then like you know,
one in the end to have the kind of notes
they're kind of at the end of each chapter. So
it's really really good. You did a great job on
this book, I have to say, because I am not
one to read a finance book.
Speaker 2 (45:22):
I have to.
Speaker 4 (45:23):
It really means the world to me to hear you
say that, Like again, I have chills. I'm such a loser.
But like IM, that's what I like when I was reading,
when I was writing it, a like that's what I wanted,
Like I wanted to be like the person who's like
I've never read one, like I don't know if I
if this is for me, like like and just be
like damn, I'm bodying this. I'm fun thing and it's
(45:46):
fun and I'm learning and like that makes me really happy.
So I'm so grateful they know this is your first book,
my first book. I'm hoping it's I think it's like
people are going to really like it, like it's yea
and yeah, I think that will be something that you
like past your friends, like it's I you know, because
we need this. There's not financial advice out there in
(46:06):
this way. And also, like I do believe like the
caliber of the advice that I gave is so sophisticated,
like it's so approachable, but it is the best advice
out there. And that's that's why I've been in the
game for so long, is because I'm so trusted in
that way, like I've I don't want people down like
it's always correct what I say. It's like I say
(46:26):
in the book, I'm your financial dominatrix.
Speaker 3 (46:28):
And she goes on and on about that, which is
really funny. It's there's like a whole like like sexual
innuendo in the whole like that whole paragraph that is hilarious.
I love that.
Speaker 2 (46:39):
I mean, I feel like I try, I can trust
you for sure. You're just straight to the point, and
I like people like that. So where can people find you?
You have a podcast. I started listening to it and
I'm hooked so.
Speaker 4 (46:49):
Good Financial Tea. It's out every Thursday. If you want
to preorder the book, go to missus dow Jones dot
com slash book and you'll get all those freebies. And yeah,
I'm on social media as missus dow Jones. I'm posting
videos every day to help you get rich?
Speaker 2 (47:03):
Are you in chapter two and finding out it's a
lot harder than you thought it would be. Well, we're
here to help. Send us an email or leave us
a voicemail. All the info is in the show notes.
Follow us on socials, I do Part two and iHeartRadio
podcast where falling in love is the main objective.
Hey, I do Part two.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
It's your host, Cheryl Burke, and I'm joined by one
of my favorite Chapter two gals. It's Joan Vosso's from
The Golden Bachelorette.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Hey, Joan, Hi, how are you.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
It's been a long time, A.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Great It's been a while.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
I've been following you on Instagram, so I know every
day about your life. I'm exactly Today we're talking about
one of the hardest topics in any relationship. And no
it's not sex. Unfortunately, we're talking money. Our guest today
is the host of the Financial Tea podcast and her
new book Future Rich Person, The New Rules for Building
(00:49):
Wealth Even if You're stuck, Broke and that Billionaire Won't
Text you back, is out May twelfth. That's a long
title but means so much. Please welcome Haley Sachs aka
Missus dow Jo. Okay, so, tell us about your financial literacy.
Did you were you raised by parents who were really
good at, you know, investing their money?
Speaker 1 (01:08):
How did you become so great at what you do?
I guess today.
Speaker 4 (01:13):
I definitely did not grow up with parents who pushed
financial literacy in the household. I grew up with what
I call a w SF a Wall Street father. So
ID like to say that, I'm like, if Lebron James's
daughter couldn't shoot a free throw, he never brought it
home with him. And so I grew up like really
(01:38):
confused about money, sort of avoiding it, thinking that it
wasn't for me, that maybe I lacked this chip inside
of me that would make it possible for me to
manage finances, and so basically avoided it at all costs.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Right, Yeah, I'm sure I can relate, but I did.
I was raised with parents who were very like a
stingy you know, with money.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
But I feel like we have so much to talk about.
We have so much to talk about.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
So this podcast is I do part two obviously, and
a lot of our listeners are learning basically just how
to handle money matters in general, just better the second
time around. What is would you say, the number one
financial mistake you see most married couples make that can
just fast track towards divorce.
Speaker 4 (02:31):
You know, it really starts, Cheryl, before people get married.
And I see so many couples because I mean, marriage
is a legal contract at the end of the day,
Like that's what it really should be viewed as. And
I just see so many couples sign that contract without
(02:51):
knowing much about the other person's finances, about how much
depth they have about their relationship with money, about you know,
how much they make, how much debt, like just all
these really important questions people avoid because they think it's
awkward and they want to walk down the aisle. And
(03:12):
sometimes we get so focused on reaching that finish line,
which I feel like society really does put marriage as
like for women, especially this finish line. We got to
get there and what it's right within your grasp. You
can sort of fool yourself into making a bad decision.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Right Joan, tell me about you. I mean, I mean
I know you, but our listeners.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
You know you're you're a widow.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Share your experience, I guess with just taking control of
just all the finances after your husband passed.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
Yeah, that was kind of crazy, to be honest. I
didn't know what the heck I was doing and that
was back of that and I go, gosh, how irresponsible
to not ever like dive into that part of our marriage.
But he was really good at it. He was the breadwinner.
I was a stay at home mom for most of
our marriage. I worked part time here and there, consulting,
doing things. But he was the money manager and I
(04:10):
did not worry about it. And then he passed away,
and I didn't prepare myself as he was dying. You know,
he had pancreatic cancer. He lived for almost two years
with that. If I look back at it, I probably
should have been more aware, but I was like in
caregiver mode. I wasn't in let me, what am I
going to do after he passes away. I was planning
on him living, so when it happened, I was kind
(04:32):
of blindsided, to be honest, And I'm a smart woman.
I have a degree in computer science, I had gone
back to school, I had gotten another degree in interior
design and was planning on starting a business right after
my last kid. He was a senior in college when
I was doing this, and then John passed away, and
then all of a sudden, my life had changed. And
I remember one like really big wake up call. I
(04:53):
had a lot, but one like really struck me, and
that was American Express. Of all things, you know, we
all counted credit cards. They're always there for us. And
I went to use my American Express card and it
had been canceled and It wasn't because of unpaid bills.
It was for no other reason that I wasn't the
primary card holder and he had passed away, and somehow
(05:14):
they figured that out and they canceled my card. And
we had been cardholders. We had a huge limit. My
husband made a good amount of money, and it was
never a question. And then all of a sudden, I
didn't have a credit card. It was the craziest thing,
and I didn't know, so I applied. I then had
to apply for the credit card, and I had like
a you know, five thousand dollars limit or something. It
(05:36):
was something like very kind of appalling, and I had
to work way up to it. So I started out
as like a like an infant, or like a college student,
somebody who just came out into the working world. And
I was fifty eight years old.
Speaker 4 (05:48):
It was crazy.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
A lot of other wake up calls, including like health insurance.
So now we don't have a business. My husband's business
folded after he passed away. I no longer have a
health insurance.
Speaker 4 (05:59):
You know.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
I was starting like a child, like a person coming
out of college. I was starting to know, and I
figured I had to figure it all.
Speaker 4 (06:06):
I had no choice.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
I had to figure it out, and how how did
you do?
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Who did you turn to or did you have a
business advisor or did you turn to any anyone?
Speaker 3 (06:15):
Unfortunately, I didn't have the problem that I didn't have money.
My husband had life insurance, so I had money. I
just didn't know how to use it. And I didn't
know how to use it smartly, Like I didn't know
what I should be, you know, investigating. I didn't know.
I was like, I need health insurance, Like how do
I go about doing that? As a person I no
longer has a business to rely on. Never had that
(06:36):
problem before. You know, I needed a credit card. I
needed I needed to buy a house by the way,
right right right When John got sick, we moved to
a townhouse that I rented because I needed an elevator
for him. He couldn't go up and downstairs. So I
was renting a home. And now all of a sudden,
I have to buy a house and I have no
credit so crazy stuff. It's not that I didn't have money.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
I had money in the bank.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
I had five million dollars of course, right right right.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
And you can't They don't care if you have money
to make They care, if you have a credit score,
if you can pay a mortgage.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Do you run into this a lot, Haley, Like, have
you seen this type of scenario?
Speaker 1 (07:09):
This is the common thing. What can people do?
Speaker 4 (07:12):
Yeah? I mean it's so interesting because I feel like
a question that I get asked a lot. It's pretty generic,
but it's like who's your work for? And I feel
like they want me to be like, you know, twenty
to thirty year olds like you know, But the truth
is that the women that I love helping the most
are the ones just like you, Joan, who are starting
(07:33):
over and like, those are the stories that mean the
most to me and that I get a lot of
and look like I'm a bit younger than you. Like,
even in that generational shift, the women have taken so
much more control of their finances. But we have to
remember that, you know, we weren't even allowed to have
(07:54):
credit cards till nineteen seventy four. Like really, in order
to have any upward mobility, you had to marry a man,
and you basically went from belonging to your parents to
them belonging to someone else. And it was quite the
norm to you know, be passive about finances. But yeah,
(08:16):
I hear this. You know, what I'm really hearing is
that you had a money aha moment, which is something
that I talk about in the book, and that could
happen to someone. It happened to me in my twenties,
but it could also happen when you're fifty eight and
your husband passes away, which I'm so sorry, but it's like,
you know, whenever that happens, the most important thing, And
it sounds like you did this is to hit it
(08:37):
head on. But I would say, like to anyone listening,
if you're in a relationship and you are in the
dark about your finances, a it's very important to have
a plan about what happens when your spouse dies. And
it's not a sexy thing to think about. But I
actually have a resource called the Seven Documents that you
(08:59):
Need in Case You Die that you get when you
pre order the book, and it has all this information.
And I feel like no one just ever says to you, like, hey, Joan,
like here's what you need. You need a pod for
so you can get access to the bank account. You
need a todd so you can get access to the UH,
to the investment accounts, you need a will do you have,
(09:19):
Do you need a trust like, you know, you need
to make sure that you're even things like digital responsibility,
Like there's a feature on the iPhone that lets you
have access to someone's digital life if they pass away,
which is like I have a French like who's going
through that right now? And it's really hard to like
(09:40):
track down everything digitally from the person who's who passed away.
But it's like, you know, there's a lot of logistics
with death, and you were in a great a really uh,
you were in a position that I think a lot
of people would wish for, which was that you had money.
(10:00):
But what happens with a lot of people is that
they don't know what's going on, and then they're not
only are they grieving, but they're also dealing with the
fact that they have a lot less than they have
or expected, and they're also having to you know, come
to terms with that reality.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
Yeah. Well, surprisingly, like it sounds like I had like
a good amount of money obviously did, but I actually
went back to work because I felt like I didn't
have enough, and I also wanted access to healthcare when
you're fifty eight like important, and you know, it's like
a sad reality, because that's when you're going to start
needing it, and certainly my husband did. And so I
went and got a job because I thought, well, I
(10:38):
don't want to have to just rely on this income
that I have, like this investment income. I need to
be more proactive about my future. Only fifty eight and
this needs to ask me a really freaking long time.
I'm hoping.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
I love that about you. You just life has just started.
You know, there really is no it's not too late
for anything.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
It's really not too late. And I mean to enjoy
you know, you you work your whole life. So so
my husband and I worked our whole life. We raised
our four kids. We have our last kid in college,
and like the goal is, like you have resources now
you've worked, you've built this life together, and you're going
to like travel and by the second house and do
all these things. And then all of a sudden he
(11:18):
was gone, and all of the stuff that we saved
for now was now just going to have to keep
me alive, you know, keep me. He was going to
continue working, so we were going to have all these
great resources. Now, like that income, like the income sort
of stopped and now I had to plan for this
fixed amount of income that I had never done before.
Speaker 4 (11:37):
Yeah, the dream huge yep.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
Thanks for sharing back to you, Haley.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Before marrying somebody, what should every couple you think like experience.
Should there be a five year plan? Should there be
a retirement plan? Should there be a joint accounts?
Speaker 4 (11:53):
So I really believe in having a joint account but
also having individuals accounts because I just think that it's
so important to be able to leave if you need to,
even if it's like your dream relationship. Like I share
a story in the book of someone who was in
a relationship that she thought was her forever and then
(12:16):
it really took a turn, and because she had that
money on the side versus doubling down on the funds
that they had together, she was able to basically save
her own life and get what she called a freedom apartment.
And so for me, I also like, I make my
own money, and I really like making my own money,
and so I think that like I would just never
want to be in a position where I had to
ask anyone or justify any of my purchases because it's like,
(12:40):
I work hard, I make good money, Like I don't
want to have to ask for that. But I do
think that like when your life becomes entingled with someone,
you need to treat it like a business. So it
really is about setting up a structure. So what does
that mean. It means a you're having money dates. Money
is a relationship, and just like any relationship, if you
(13:02):
don't spend time with it, then it's never going to blossom.
It's never going to get deeper, it's never it's actually
going to get worse. Relationship's got a lot worse if
you're never together, And so you need to do that
with your partner. But I also think there's something so
amazing about having a partner financially because it gives you
someone to build with and dream with, and not that
(13:26):
you can't do that on your own, but I think
that like it doesn't have to be something that makes
your life smaller. It can actually be something that brings
you so much wealth and like helps you expand your
financial horizons. But like you need to normalize talking about
money and make it something that you do together even
when you don't want to.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
Kind Of how soon into a relationship do you think
is a good time to have those conversations, because they're
super uncomfortable. I mean, if you think about, like why
is it easier to talk about sex and it is
to talk about money in a relationship. I mean it's
it's difficult. I still have a hard time talking to
talk about it.
Speaker 4 (14:00):
I'm engaged. Wow, Okay, love that, congratulations, thank you. You know,
I'd say the right time is usually when you're at
one of those crossroads, like you know, you get to
the point where it's like you're going to move in together,
you're engaged, you're getting a dog, like where things get
a little bit more complicated, you know. And but the
(14:20):
thing is is like whenever you tie your finances to someone,
like even if you're not married to someone, but say
you're dating them seriously, and so you guys are like, okay,
like we should get a credit card together because like
then we can you know, use the bonuses to travel
and we're always going to dinner together and like this
makes sense we have shared expenses. But it's like when
you do that, then say that person defaults on the
credit card, it's on you. So you never you always
(14:44):
at the end of the day go into this life
and we leave with one person and it's ourself and
a lot of people get confused in relationships and lose
that plot, and so you know, nothing is forever, but
also exactly nothing forever. Statistically, women outlive men, so it's like,
you know, most women are going to go through some
(15:06):
version of what Joan did, where it's like, you know,
you have to deal with the consequences of what you've
been avoiding.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
That's the key.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
You're gonna have to deal with it at some point,
so you should really start to think about it.
Speaker 4 (15:19):
Yeah, deal with it throughout.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
Sure, it happened to you the way that you were
agreeing with what you were saying.
Speaker 4 (15:26):
No experience with.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
This, I mean no, not not to that extent. I mean,
when I was married, we kept everything separate for the
most part, right, So we did start something, but it
was like, you know, I wasn't married for very long
as you know, so that didn't really mean anything to
be quite honest. But yeah, everything was pretty much separate.
(15:50):
And I mean, yeah, that's all I could say. And
that was intentional.
Speaker 4 (15:56):
Yeah, yeah, maybe there was like a part of you
that knew it wasn't forever too.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
It's my parents.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
My mom is like, she's a businesswoman, so she instilled
all of this in me. And she was raised very
very poor in the Philippines and created a business and
a life for herself on her own and was raising
me as a single parent. And so she has lived
every part of life from not having food to you know,
(16:23):
obviously now very wealthy.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
But that took a lot of work.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
And the one thing that she's always instilled in me
since this little girl is just don't ever depend on
a man for money period.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
M I feel like we're talking about we have like
such good conversations about single women and people that have,
you know, starting their dating careers together. I am in
the chapter of life where like you, you know, maybe
have lost a spouse or maybe you're divorced and you're
going on too, like your chapter two. And I have
a scenario because I certainly have friends that are like
(16:55):
kind of dating men and they're in their second chapter
of life. What if you're a dating man and he
is in after two and he's always had a great career,
but his ex wife took him to the cleaners in
their divorce and now he's back at square one and
has wrapped up a bunch of credit card debt. And
if you were to make and if you were to
make things more serious, would you have to take on
(17:19):
his debt? How does that work if you marry him? Yeah,
if you marry him.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
It depends what state.
Speaker 4 (17:28):
It depends on what state. But to me, that sounds
like a guy with money trauma.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
That sounds like you should run for the hills.
Speaker 4 (17:35):
Yeah, and someone, yeah, someone, I sort of agree because
it's like it's just the way that it was worded.
It feels like someone who's looking at women as a
villain and it's going to maybe want to like get
revenge on women just in general from what they went through,
versus really wants to build like out of a place
(17:58):
of integrity.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
Let's talk about money trauma, because it is an actual thing.
I mean, it's not just it's we're not just throwing
that phrase around, right like, because it is like you
can live in scarcity like my mom did, and my mom,
I have to say, still does, because she will always
feel like she's poor no matter what. Right, Like she
will walk by a penny and she will literally pick
it up because every penny counts, you know, and like
(18:32):
that's just and she's getting older, you know, it's like
she's turning even worse into that you know.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
So how can you break that trauma? How can you
do that?
Speaker 3 (18:44):
If you like however, like if you were raised with
frugal parents, if you're raised with.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
This generational trauma, right, Like it's more psychological, it's like
you know psychology, but have you experienced this Hailey?
Speaker 4 (18:56):
Yeah? So Actually in my book Future Rich Person, I
start the book. The first part of the book there's
four parts, is mindset, and it's called Part one. Face it.
Because I can teach you anything about money. I can
teach you about index funds, about emergency funds, about debt payoff,
about investing, but none of what I say is going
(19:20):
to stick if we do not identify and fix and
work through why and what is the root of your behavior?
That is everything. That's what I always say. People say, oh,
should I get a therapist or a financial planner, and
I say therapists, go to the therapist first, work through it,
(19:44):
because you know your behavior is going to keep reflecting
your self identity. So you need to shift your self
identity to be a future rich person if you want
to actually take control of your financial life.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
And first you have to heal, right, you have to
identify your triggers.
Speaker 4 (20:05):
You have to calm down in the moment. So much
of financial like so many financial issues are just I
think from like lack of emotional regulation. There's a lot
that you need to sort of work through. Uh. It's
not that it's impossible, but it's sort of the same
for anything like, say you're in bad relationships and you
(20:27):
want to get in a good relationship, You'll have to
work through the trauma of your past relationships. Say you
want to like fix relationship with food. It's not just
like going on a diet. Everything everything, everything is you
have to get down to the root and take responsibility
for yourself.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Hmm.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
I love how the book you read late you talk
about your own experiences like so freely and openly, and
it kind of like we gain your trust as we
read your book. I spent a lot of my weekend
reading your book.
Speaker 4 (20:56):
And I love that it's fun to read right Like
it's like you actually.
Speaker 3 (21:01):
So, I took all kinds of pictures on my phone.
I can't read them right now about like like passages
that I love that I wanted to like tell my
daughter about, and now they really is good.
Speaker 4 (21:11):
You're taught.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
I feel like you were talking to a friend and
I felt like I related, like I knew all those
people you were talking about, Like you, you know, you'll
give some quotes about or a conversation you had with
somebody and you say you and then her, and then
you and then her, and I feel like, I'm like,
I know that conversation I had that with my daughter.
You talked about you know that you didn't feel like
you were going to be good at this because you're
(21:31):
not a type A personality. Yeah, you have these friends
that were type A and they were organized, and you
were the person who's going to the bar with your
passport because you couldn't find your driver's license.
Speaker 4 (21:39):
And I'm oh, my god.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
I called my daughter. I'm like, oh, I just met
your like twin. My daughter still doesn't and hasn't for
like three years to go to ours. So I felt
like to everybody. So I'm just like giving you a
plug for your book. It was just so much fun
to read. You sprinkled in all this great advice and
it was almost like you were giving therapy and financial
(22:01):
device mixed in with a bunch of really funny stories.
Speaker 4 (22:04):
I really love that you're giving me so many chills.
It's like so weird to have the book like being
read now, but it's that's exactly what I wanted it
to be. Like was where it's like a brownie with
spinach in it, where it's kind of yeah, like it's
the kind of book that you actually because how many
times do we buy a finance book or like a
self help book and it's like we never actually crack
(22:24):
it because it's like fun. Yeah, it's like I it
feels like self punishment to do it, and it's like,
I what has made the biggest difference for me? And
I would say this, like about changing anything in my
life is when I'm able to find a way to
make the change enjoyable. And I think that like with finances, yes,
(22:45):
there's going to be an element of cutting back and
of like choosing your heart when you really want to
improve your financial life, but there's also so much possibility.
And I think especially for you know your audience, people
who are really looking to start over and you are
both great examples of this, like just the abundance of
opportunity and how surprising life can be and how much
(23:08):
you can actually shift things and that they are in
your control. And like that's why I talk a lot
in the book about learned financial helplessness, because especially right now,
like economically, you know, the housing market is so messed up,
the student loans are so high. Since twenty twenty, wages
have increased seven percent, but inflation has increased sixty seven percent.
(23:29):
Like there's so many reasons why not. But the ones
who win are the ones who understand that the game
was not built for everyone to win. It was actually
built by the people who are winning to keep ring.
But when you learn the rules, which is why I
wrote the New Rules of Building Wealth, then you too
(23:51):
have the opportunity to get a seat at the table,
no matter where you're starting from.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
I would love that figure out how you figured all
this out. You don't have a background in it. You
were in media, You had a really cool career that
wasn't making you any money, and you looked at your
life and you're like, Okay, this isn't working. How the
heck do you start this career?
Speaker 4 (24:11):
How do you become you?
Speaker 3 (24:13):
Because it seems like such an aspiration that most of
us could never even think about.
Speaker 4 (24:18):
It's so funny. It's like the I would when I
started influencing was not a thing, and so like everyding, and.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
I think that both of us. Yeah, I can say
the thing.
Speaker 4 (24:31):
Yeah, And so it's it came from a place of
like where I'm patient zero and I needed to help
myself and so and I thought in my head, oh okay,
there's definitely other people that feel like this, and I
wanted to make a difference. But like it really I
think that when you create something from your like deepest wound,
(24:53):
that's where the magic really comes from. And so like
that's how it all happen. But I also think that, like,
you know, thank god I never worked in finance, like
they think all that. It's like that I that I
that I have the career before this that I did,
because doesn't that just prove that anyone can do it?
Like that's sort of what I try to get across
(25:13):
in the book too, where it's like, yeah, I am
the girl with the password at the bar. I'm not
walking on an incline with my like meal prepped chicken
and hair washing schedule. Like I was on a date
last week and my haircut on fire, like and I've
run a multimillion dollar business.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
Girls, Like it's like, how did that happen?
Speaker 4 (25:31):
Oh? I mean we were leaving over to kiss. There
was a little candle. It was I've got extensions.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
In that's not a sign. I don't know what it is.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
That is so funny. I love to see now her
book is sprinkled through through the whole thing with these
stories like her adderall addiction like I love. I wouldn't
be surprised that was vodka right there. I mean, I
know it looked like that.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
Actually, take a swig. It's past five o'clock, right I know.
Speaker 4 (25:57):
Oh yeah, I'm drinking vodka right now. I'm drinking like
thirteen dollars water from me.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
I was like, you're just killing it. That takes or
at least my mind. I don't know.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
But you're just so relatable that nobody like you don't
intimidate us. I don't feel like you have this Harvard
degree and you're telling us how to do it in
a way that none of us could do it. You
are the one that's drinking the vodka in the podcast.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
I'm not drink I'm drinking of water.
Speaker 4 (26:20):
But I I but I next time I see you
will have a martini. But I but I you know,
I love a martini. But I do feel like that
that there's you know, there's a lot of financial experts
out there that make you feel like you have to
be a certain way in order to do this, and
it's important for me to be like, no, you just
have to be you and like it's actually you don't
even you just need systems. Like That's the biggest thing
(26:41):
too that I talk about in the book that's been
the biggest reason that I've become a millionaire is like
automation and you know, also forcing myself sometimes to do
shit I don't want to do. Like I say in
the book, I have a money date every month. It's
really important. I never want to do it. I never
want to do it. I forced myself to do it.
But then once I do it, I'm fine. It works.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
It's not a money date, so it's a threat time.
Speaker 4 (27:05):
So money is a relationship. If you don't spend time,
you know, with someone or something in a relationship, their
relationship is going to go to shit. But most people
manage their money off of vibes, like they're avoiding their
bank statements. They don't look at their credit card bills.
They're sort of just like you know, grin and bearing
it and swiping it and hoping for the best. They're
forgetting about packages that they need to return. There, you know,
(27:28):
they have subscriptions they didn't cancel. They're not on top
of it.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
Descriptions.
Speaker 4 (27:32):
Yeah, and it just feels so overwhelming. And I think
that it's it is every day something that will weigh
on you. So you need to create a system where
you have the time set to take care of it,
so then you give yourself the freedom and the energy
to live your life without that weighing you down. Like
it's actually the way to live a better life. And
(27:54):
so yeah, it's just set time every month that I
review my finances, that I take care of all this
great finance. Yeah, I open my mail, Like all the
shit that I don't want to do happens then. And
once I'm doing it, you can make yourself do anything.
And you start and you're going and it's not that bad.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
But it's like not that scary. I think people are
just scared.
Speaker 4 (28:13):
Oh my god, it's not scary at all. And what
you realize also too, Like I think that's what's so
interesting about this whole idea of like financial dependency for
women is like actually, like the most feminine cool thing
is the being in control of your finances and having
like the power to choose your own life, like being
able to like make your own decisions, to say no
(28:35):
to shit that doesn't serve you, to buy yourself what you.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
Want, to walk away, if you need to walk away,
you have to.
Speaker 4 (28:41):
Take to travel to like take care of the people
that you love. Like this is you're the first generations
of women who even had that opportunity. And it's like,
I take it so seriously for us to take advantage
of that and to embrace it, because you know, the
patriarchy doesn't want us to be in control of our
finances because it keeps us dependent.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
And if a man feels emasculated because of it, that's
not your problem, that's his problem. You know.
Speaker 3 (29:06):
It's funny. I had that conversation with one of my
first dates with so Chalka as the person I met
on my season of The Golden Bacherette Haley Case who
don't know and so he was on one of our
first dates on TV on camera. I made a statement
about like being financially secure, and I think I mentioned
a number to him, and later on in our after
(29:30):
we were engaged, he said, why did you tell me
about that. Why did you mention that, Like on one of
our first days, I said, because I wanted you to
know that I didn't need your money and that I
wasn't in this for money. And I just put that
out right away, and let's just move on from that,
because I never ever want to be dependent on a man.
I had that I was married, and now I'm financially independent,
and it feels really good to know that I can
(29:50):
get my own American Express now, even though I'm afraid
to open the statement up. Pretty much every month that
it comes, it sets on my counter like five days.
But I know that I.
Speaker 4 (29:58):
Got the app, girl, and then it you have the
app and it's in your like digital wallet. It makes
it so much easier. But like it's why is it
so scary, Like it's like you you're a smart girl,
Like it's like this is seventh grade math. Like we
have been so conditioned, we have been so brainwashed. It
is not that hard. It's not that scary. Put on
(30:19):
a song you like, you can drink your vodka to
the bottle, whatever takes to get there, do it. Because
I think.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
What's scary though, in Jones defense, is like it's just
like you know I like to buy stuff.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
Yeah, tell me about it. I bought all of Sephora
during this Sephorest savings event. Just this best.
Speaker 4 (30:36):
You know, it's not so funny the Sephort savings event
and everyone is like.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
Well, it's not even that much you're saving.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
Yeah, that's something about investment options quickly are luxury goods
ever a good idea like Bronzer versus Eschanel bag.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
Oh my god, I like I could.
Speaker 4 (30:55):
We fell for the all the Burken stuff?
Speaker 1 (30:59):
Oh I haven't. I haven't done that one yet. I
haven't gotten there. I've invested in that.
Speaker 4 (31:03):
Yeah, it's they're not in Look here's the thing, Like
I sell it. No, So here's my issue with it
is there's a lot of like media hype around burkins
being as good of an investment as the stock market.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
Oh my god, really yeah.
Speaker 4 (31:22):
Oh my god. It's everywhere where they're like the Birkins
will beat the S and P five hundred. And the
truth is it's like if you're getting the like Lauren
Sanchez special where it's like the most rare ass burkein
in Paris and you're like never act actually wearing it
and it's hermetically sealed and then you resell it and
there's like three of them in the world. Great, you're
(31:43):
gonna make a huge return because.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
You sell it.
Speaker 4 (31:46):
Yeah, but also any good that is in demand, that
is so scarce and in great condition, is going to
hold its value or increase. But the Burkean resale market
is flooded with inventory, and you will make some of
your money back, for sure, But it's not an investment.
And I think that it's crazy to have normalized twenty
(32:08):
five thousand dollars handbags as this like savvy financial choice,
when really that's a fashion choice. And I love fashion,
don't get me wrong, but it's it's how you view it.
If you're getting a burkin because you love it, it's cute,
you want to wear it. Great, but it's not. None
of these bags are investment pieces. They will maybe hold
(32:29):
some of their value, but it's like you're maybe going
to hold like fifty percent of the value. I mean,
I am very clued into the luxury resale market. I
used to flip a lot of bags and like, it's.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
A hole bags, what do you mean, Oh my gosh.
Speaker 4 (32:44):
I would go to Japan, I would go to Paris,
I would buy rare bags and then I would well,
this would be like if the dollar was really strong
in Paris, and I would go and find vintage Chanel
bags or whatever, and then I would bring them back.
It's like fun, so fun, and I love wearing them.
Like it's like I have a fabulous bag collection, and
like that's like something that's just like is fun in
my life. But it's not something that I look to
(33:06):
as a way that I'm building wealth for my future.
That's what my stock portfolio is for. So I don't
think it's kind of like girl math, Like we don't
need to fool ourselves. If we want to get a
bag and we can afford the bag, get the bag and.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
Enjoy the bag. Yeah, No need to justify it.
Speaker 4 (33:20):
No, No, I don't need to justify it. Some things
are just frivolous fun and like I'm I fall for
like all the girl stuff, Like you know, I like
to get my nails done, I like makeup, I like
my hair, I like clothes. Like it's all a pink
tax and I don't know, it makes me feel good,
it makes me feel calm.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
You can write it off great, yeah, and I write
off a lot of it.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
Exactly So how about like vintage cars, like if you
were I'm aging myself at ja leto, you know.
Speaker 4 (33:58):
It depends on the car. Yeah, It's like, you know,
watches can actually be a really good.
Speaker 1 (34:03):
Eend Yeah, right, like a Rolex.
Speaker 4 (34:06):
Yeah, or you know, like a you know what.
Speaker 2 (34:08):
Actually, no, my father passed away and he had a
few Roles watches, and honestly I didn't even end up
selling it because they were giving offering for it.
Speaker 4 (34:18):
So I think it all depends on the asset and true,
but you know, the best place to put your money
is in the stock market, and like trying to get
rich quick in all these other ways is just going
to be something that ultimately prevents you from investing to
(34:40):
your full ability.
Speaker 3 (34:42):
So can we talk to about something like totally less glamorous?
But I know that a lot of listeners are single moms,
and right, I mean, how can you remove the overwhelming
feeling of saving for your future and your kid's future
if you only have one income? It sounds impossible, that's
(35:03):
really hard.
Speaker 4 (35:04):
But what I will say is like you have to
put your own oxygen mask on first, because kids can
take out loans for school, but you cannot take out
loans for retirement, and so it's like, you know, sounds
awesome to you know, give your kid everything that they
(35:25):
want and all these things, but a financial boundaries are
so important for children. Teaching them the value of a dollar,
showing them what you're working for, and including them in
that process I think is like so inspiring. But also,
don't prioritize their future over yours, because then you also
perpetuate a cycle of in like a family money cycle,
(35:47):
where then they will have to do that with their
kids because they won't have retirement funds and then they'll
have to rely on their kids for it, you know
what I mean.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
So break the cycle now, Yeah, break the cycle.
Speaker 4 (35:58):
Now.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
You're said than done? Though, isn't it so.
Speaker 4 (36:02):
Much easier said than done? I think it really depends
on your community too. Yeah, it's really hard if you're in,
you know, a neighborhood where people are in a different
socio economic venue, because then it like puts so much
pressure on what's normal. But you know, single moms like
that is truly they are doing God's work. Like that
(36:25):
is such a hard position to be in. And I
just think, like, yeah, you've already given up so much
to take care of that child, like, don't give up
your future too, you know, And by just taking care
of them and getting them out the door and like
literally like like that's giving them a huge lag up
(36:46):
from everyone else.
Speaker 3 (36:47):
Yeah, and preparing them maybe go to college and then
they break the cycle themselves. They go and get a
great education and can support themselves. And you're good thinking
about being a mom. And I have four kids, they're
all grown. I actually got them credit cards, but I
know that people talk about getting your kids a credit
card so they can start building well some you know,
(37:09):
things that I ended up not having. I didn't have
any credit and so like do you recommend that or
when do you recommend it?
Speaker 4 (37:17):
At? What age it?
Speaker 3 (37:18):
Like what is the scenario that that is good?
Speaker 4 (37:20):
Yeah, so what you're you know, it's so interesting that
you asked that, Joone, because like you obviously were someone
who really got the short end of the stick for
not having a credit history, so you understand firsthand how
important it is to really build that credit at a
young age. And so what you're talking about is adding
someone who's under eighteen to your card as an authorized user.
And for many credit cards, they have a limit that
(37:43):
you could only do this when the child is sixteen,
but there are some cards where you can do it
when the child is much younger. And it doesn't mean
that you have to give your child that card to use.
You could put like your Netflix subscription on it and
put it on auto pay and stick it in a
drawer and they never need to know about it. But
it will begin to build their credit histories. Then they
(38:05):
could get instead of getting a starter card, they could
get a rewards card. Or if they need to rent
their first apartment, they'll be able to do it. Like
it just gives them, you know, they need to get
a loan for a car, they're going to get a
better rate, Like it gives them a little credit score
is basically your financial GPA. So it's like it's your score.
(38:25):
It's like it tells lenders how trustworthy you are with money.
So like for you, Joan, when you didn't have a
credit history, they were like, fuck, no, I'm not giving
that girl a mortgage, like she has no there's no
one can attest that she's going to pay it back.
I got to staying hell out of Dodge, you know,
so we need it's like a track record that shows
(38:47):
like okay, you're someone who it's good for the banks
or whoever's on me the money to do business with.
And so yeah, you can absolutely set your kids up
with a car, and I think that's an excellent idea.
There's also a lot of other great hacks in the
book how to Build Generational Wealth, because you know, if
you do have even like one hundred dollars a month
to put towards your children to their future, I mean,
(39:10):
like I said, you have to put your own mask
on first, but that little you know, one hundred dollars
could fifty dollars over time with compound interests can grow
so exponentially. So this is where I'm saying, it's so
much about understanding how things work versus even having so
much money or like, you know, any sort of other sophistication,
(39:31):
Like we just live in a system where it's never taught.
And so that's why the book is so powerful, because
it gives you these cheat codes that you know, you
can use to really get ahead in life and to
put your children ahead too.
Speaker 3 (39:44):
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, can I ask you a question. I
know that you have kind of indicated that the stock
market is gives you the best ROI I know in
your book, you talked about really basic things like making
sure that you have a savings account that is or
a bank account that is not charging you all kinds
of fees, and then having a savings account so you
actually earned some interest on the money you have in
(40:06):
the bank, and a decent one, not one that is
giving you like a point oh four percent.
Speaker 1 (40:10):
Return or whatever.
Speaker 3 (40:12):
But I have a question about investing. Okay, so let's
say that you want to invest in the stock market.
I'm already in it. I'm asking this as a general
question because I have like a stockbroker, but like what
kind of fees should you expect? What ones are reasonable?
Like you talked about this in banking, but I maybe
I haven't gotten to that point in the book yet.
But do you ever talk about it when it comes
(40:32):
to investing in the stock market? What is reasonable? What
are the reasonable fees to pay?
Speaker 4 (40:37):
Yeah, it's such a good question, Joan, because it's like
fees really are the killer of profit, and people don't
understand usually their fees with these advisors. And so what
I talk about in the book is how there's two
kinds of two different fee structures with financial advisors. So
one is a percentage of what your earning. And then
(41:01):
the other is hourly and I think for most people
an hourly uh sort of just planner is really all
that you need because you can do it on your own.
But sometimes it's nights to have someone like tell, you know,
set out the plan for you. Maybe you want you
want something that's like a bit more in depth, but
then you're able to go and like make those decisions
(41:23):
on your own. But you know, fees can get crazy,
like I've seen like and that when you look at
it over ten twenty years, it's like it could be
tens of hundreds of thousands of dollars in profit easily.
Really look for like one percent.
Speaker 1 (41:40):
Now, how about for those who are in like the entertainment.
Speaker 2 (41:44):
World where you have business managers and you know, like
at the end of the day, I don't do taxes
and I never plan on doing them in that sense.
Speaker 4 (41:53):
Yeah, but I mean me too, I have a I
have an accountant for sure, and they they're so like
they help me optimize so much because that's like being
a business owner. And also that's the other thing in
the book is like I really break down how to
start your own business because like we are the biggest
generation of business owners, and no one sits us down
(42:15):
and says, hey, here's what s CORP is, Here's what
LLC is, here's why right right, here's what you put
away for taxes.
Speaker 2 (42:22):
But I mean, mind you, this is not just an
entertainment industry. My parents have one like it. It's like,
you know, you do get help, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (42:29):
You get help. But I'm saying like the actual structure
of like a like a business, Like we all romanticize, oh,
we're going to start a business, but it's like, no
one actually ever tells you here, do it in the
best way. So that was so important for me to
include because the majority of people who read this, I
feel like are not majority, but like a good amount
are going to not be working in corporate but actually
(42:50):
be working for themselves. But you know, like fifteen percent.
Speaker 1 (42:53):
I would say is normal.
Speaker 4 (42:56):
Yeah, I'd say fifteen, maybe twenty, But like, ye.
Speaker 3 (43:03):
Don't be paying marty mm hmmm, yeah, I mean I
think people would not.
Speaker 4 (43:07):
I woant to pay over twenty to be honest, like
I would like for me, I'm paying fifteen to my
business manager, but he's sort of like my business.
Speaker 1 (43:15):
Partner, so it feels right, of course you're still the CEO.
Speaker 4 (43:18):
Yeah, And I really believe also, like he worked so hard.
I believe so deeply in paying people well, because like
there's just such a bigger cost to having to replet
someone than there is to uh making sure they stay.
And so if I love working with someone like and
they're doing a great job, like I just that's not
something I will ever be stingy on, Like I just
(43:39):
like my businesses has to be doing better than for
me to be worrying about like giving you the raise
that you deserve. That's not where I would ever cut costs.
Speaker 2 (43:49):
Haley, I can't leave this. It went really fast, this
whole conversation. Thank you so much for your time. But
I want to let's put the book again because I
can't wait.
Speaker 1 (43:58):
To read it.
Speaker 4 (43:58):
You're gonna like it, Cheryl, I want will you DM
me when you start reading it?
Speaker 1 (44:01):
Of course? Are you going to do an audible version?
Speaker 4 (44:04):
Yeah? Yeah. One thing I'll say about what's really cool
for your audience is that if when you pre order
the book, you get seven hundred dollars worth of freebies,
So the book is like thirty dollars, but then you're
getting all these extra guides, AI tools, generational wealth planners,
credit card tool, like everything that you need to be
(44:27):
a future rich person comes when you pre order, because
I really wanted to make it like, you know, just
so valuable for people. And so if you're listening and
you're intrigued, definitely pre order. And you could pre order
the audible, which is so helpful too, because and I
read the whole thing. It's so fun. I'm a big
audible girly too. But I will say there is something
(44:48):
nice about getting the physical book and then sure highlight
it and you can there's I have checklists at the
end of each chapter of like the action steps that
you should take, but audible as well, you'll get a PDAF.
Speaker 3 (45:03):
I love the Actually, I love how you like kind
of organize the book chapter like I kind of know
what I'm going to get at the end that I'm
going to get the checklist, so if I'm not like
and I'm reading it for pleasure, but then like you know,
one in the end to have the kind of notes
they're kind of at the end of each chapter. So
it's really really good. You did a great job on
this book, I have to say, because I am not
one to read a finance book.
Speaker 2 (45:22):
I have to.
Speaker 4 (45:23):
It really means the world to me to hear you
say that, Like again, I have chills. I'm such a loser.
But like IM, that's what I like when I was reading,
when I was writing it, a like that's what I wanted,
Like I wanted to be like the person who's like
I've never read one, like I don't know if I
if this is for me, like like and just be
like damn, I'm bodying this. I'm fun thing and it's
(45:46):
fun and I'm learning and like that makes me really happy.
So I'm so grateful they know this is your first book,
my first book. I'm hoping it's I think it's like
people are going to really like it, like it's yea
and yeah, I think that will be something that you
like past your friends, like it's I you know, because
we need this. There's not financial advice out there in
(46:06):
this way. And also, like I do believe like the
caliber of the advice that I gave is so sophisticated,
like it's so approachable, but it is the best advice
out there. And that's that's why I've been in the
game for so long, is because I'm so trusted in
that way, like I've I don't want people down like
it's always correct what I say. It's like I say
(46:26):
in the book, I'm your financial dominatrix.
Speaker 3 (46:28):
And she goes on and on about that, which is
really funny. It's there's like a whole like like sexual
innuendo in the whole like that whole paragraph that is hilarious.
I love that.
Speaker 2 (46:39):
I mean, I feel like I try, I can trust
you for sure. You're just straight to the point, and
I like people like that. So where can people find you?
You have a podcast. I started listening to it and
I'm hooked so.
Speaker 4 (46:49):
Good Financial Tea. It's out every Thursday. If you want
to preorder the book, go to missus dow Jones dot
com slash book and you'll get all those freebies. And yeah,
I'm on social media as missus dow Jones. I'm posting
videos every day to help you get rich?
Speaker 2 (47:03):
Are you in chapter two and finding out it's a
lot harder than you thought it would be. Well, we're
here to help. Send us an email or leave us
a voicemail. All the info is in the show notes.
Follow us on socials, I do Part two and iHeartRadio
podcast where falling in love is the main objective.
Host
Jana Kramer
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