August 10, 2026 • 46 mins
You might know Sam Gordon as that little girl who went viral for outrunning all the boys on her tackle football team. She was just nine years old when her dad posted that video, and fourteen years later Sam has matured into a powerful advocate for women’s sports. In her career, she’s already co-founded the Utah Girl’s Tackle Football League and played D1 soccer at Columbia University. Now she’s professional football player with the Salt Lake Wildcats all while pursuing a law degree. Sam talks to Ashlyn about why it’s so important to be a multihyphenate in sports and life, what it’s been like to grow up as the face of a women’s sports movement, and the opportunities tackle football can bring to women on and off the field.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi everyone, and welcome back to another episode of Wide Open.
I'm your host Ashlyn Harris, and today's guest is someone
many of us met when she.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Was just a kid.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
A viral highlight reel introduced the world to a fearless
little girl running through defenders on a football field. But
what fascinated me wasn't the touchdowns. It was her conviction.
Long before conversations around girls in football became mainstream, Sam
Gordon was actually living in it. She wasn't asking permission, She
(00:31):
simply showed up and played. Since then, she's been advocating,
she's been an athlete, she's been someone who has helped
shift the conversation around opportunity for girls in sports. Today,
I want to talk less about the headlines and more
about the person behind them. Sam, Welcome to the show. Hi, Sam,
(01:01):
Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
How are you. Hi? I'm good. How are you? Oh?
Speaker 1 (01:06):
I'm so good. I'm glad to be back. I just
I actually just came back from vacation, so you're you know,
you're getting me fresh off of the fresh Montana sky.
I mean, it was one of the most incredible experiences
I've had in a long time. Have you been to Montana.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
We're actually going up to Montana later this week. We
go every summer. Awesome.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
It was spectacular. I can't believe how beautiful it is.
And I had no idea there's like so much beauty
in the US that I'm just like, it's so stupid
why I travel all over the world to go on
vacations when we have so much to see in our
own country. So it was a good food for thought
(01:50):
for me.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Like all of our national parks are.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Just oh my god, Yellowstone was incredible. But back to you,
thank you so much for coming on the show. I'm
so excited to dive into so much that that you've
done since you were like a kid. You're living like
well beyond your years, honey, what are you twenty three? Now?
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Twenty three?
Speaker 1 (02:11):
Yeah, oh my god. We all remember you from all
the viral moments of you playing football. So for our
viewers and our listeners out there who don't know who
you are, Sam, you were just this little fireball on
the football field playing with boys, and I believe your
(02:34):
dad put a reel out correct and it just went viral,
like millions of people were watching it. But before all
these people knew your name. What was it like, like,
you know, who is the little girl? I mean at
the time, I believe what you were nine years old, yeah,
nine years old. Oh my god, you were like this
little grom in this football gear, just working all these boys.
(02:57):
What was it like for you, Like, was it always
like love it first sight for the game or were
you just always a little competitor.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
I was always just really competitive. I played like every
sport I could possibly do, and I was playing competitive soccer.
My older brother was playing football. And then after my
soccer practices, I would go to his football practices and
they were running wind sprints and for some reason, I
was like Dad, like can I go run with them?
Of course I don't know, and then he'd be like, yeah,
(03:26):
just stay out of their way, and so then I
would go and I'd beat most of the players on
his team, even though there were three years older than me,
and I would just like continue to do this after
their practices, and then eventually the coach was like, Sam,
like you should play football, and I was like, oh, yeah,
why not? And like, I don't know, my dad racist
in a way, like I didn't even think about it,
like meeting a girl going to play and then coming
out there that first season at tryouts, like I got
(03:48):
first in every single speed and agility drill out of
one hundred and seventy two boys, which was pretty cool.
But I trained like the six months before football because
my dad was like, if you're gonna play like you
gotta be good basically, but there were chants like in
the lines to be like beat the girl, beat the girl,
like I really, you know, had a target on my
back in a ponytail. So it was it was a
(04:08):
big season, but it was fun.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
I love that.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
That's such a good line too, because it's it makes
me like feel so warm inside because I grew up
playing with boys, and like I it gives me this
like feeling of when because same, I had an older
brother and he played baseball and football, and I always
(04:31):
had to go to my brother's practices, so I always
played with him, and he was two years older than me,
so I always played up.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
And it's it's so cool to hear that. And what
I love what you just said too, is like your dad,
I think this is a really important thing. And I
get it because I live this in my family. My
dad never treated me differently than my brother, which opened
up a lot of possibilities.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
In my mind.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
And I had this conversation with Billy Jean King and
says the same thing. She had an older brother. And
it's so interesting. All of us young girls who grew
up playing believe that we were good enough to be
a part of sports, whether it had anything to do
with boys or girls. And I think that confidence at
(05:19):
a very very early age that our fathers or our
mothers instill in us that these things are impossible because
what I've realized, and I know, you know, curious of
what you think. Most people think it's unusual for women
or girls to play like sports with boys. But the
(05:42):
only thing it makes it unusual is the adults, Like
they are the ones who make people feel like we
can't do these things, because at our core, we know
we can, we know we can hang, we know we're
good enough, we know the possibilities. But it's like the
barriers actually come from the adults, it's not from us.
And I love that bullish mentality that you have of like, yeah,
(06:05):
why not me, I can do this.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
I think it's so interesting how early those type of
mindsets can like set on and translate from the parents
to the kids, and so you see a lot of
my friends were like wait, what, Like you're gonna play
football and I was like, yeah, like why not and
like just kind of having that different environment growing up.
Or like I was playing football with the boys at
recess and my dad didn't tell me this actually, but
(06:29):
until quite a bit later, but during my third grade
parent teacher conference, my teacher like sat with my dad
and had me leave the room and was like, hey,
like you need to have her stop playing football with
the boys during recess, Like she thought it was gonna,
you know, set me down a wrong path. And I
was like, I don't know. And he didn't tell me that,
but yeah, she was so concerned that I was playing
(06:50):
sports with the boys that she felt the need to
tell him. So anyways, it's just really interesting to see
how different that mindset is, and then it impacts more
than just sports but your entire life, like confidence of
like that there's a path I have to go into
or I can do anything.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
Here's the funny part that people don't understand, and I
want people to hear this. Kids usually don't understand limitations
until adults introduce them to it. So when did you
first realize like people were questioning your place, Like I
know you didn't hear that from your teacher, but when
did it like kind of be like, oh, this like
(07:25):
this makes people feel a kind of way seeing me
out there performing at a high level and crushing these
young kids, like especially boys, Like when did you realize? Oh,
people were starting to question it.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
I feel like there were a couple different moments. One
was like during tryouts for that first time and like
having chance against me or i'd you know, knock a
boy on his butt and then the parent comes out
and like yells in his face and it's like, don't
get beat by a girl, like it's always the emphasis.
I'm like, yeah, the girl saying you know. And then
after those tryouts, when I you know, it was first
and all these drills I had had eighty boys that
(08:00):
were picked ahead of me, and so I was placed
on one of the lower level teams, and that was
really my first moment of like whoa, you know, feeling
discriminated against because of my gender. And I like had
to talk with my dad and was like, why didn't
I get placed on one of the top teams and
kind of he was explaining to me that it was
like just because I'm a girl, and then you know,
coming out that season and wanting to prove something. But
(08:22):
it was just like every game i'd play against the
team and get some cheap shots against me. People are
always like, oh, the boys are you know, they're going
easy on you because you're a girl out there, and
it's like no, they're they're hitting harder because they don't
want to get beat by a girl. So there was
that whole experience. And then of course once the video
went viral, it is like shocking how many middle aged
men cared about this nine year old girl and like
(08:44):
wanted to comment and be like I could beat you
in football, and it's like, well maybe like you're forty,
Like I don't know, but just so many people kind
of having their input on like this video of me
playing and telling me not to play or getting back
in the kitchen, just like all of those YouTube comments,
just the whole.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
So you were were you reading those because now I
want to dive into it because it was a very
big viral moment. I imagine it changed your life very quickly,
and I think it's important to talk about that because
you were so young. Were you actually reading those comments?
Or is that was that like later down the line
you were just focused on being a kid.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
I think it was a little bit later than I
actually read them. My dad was managing like all of
my social media when I was younger, which was good.
But also I think I had a really good team
around me, like with my dad, with my brothers, like,
I had a lot of support, and so those type
of comments, I actually thought they were funny, Like they
didn't really get to me in any way other than like, wow,
this is this is new for a lot of people
(09:45):
to see a girl out on the football field. So
I was exposed to a lot of those comments. But
I felt like my dad's whole quote is just like,
don't try and change people's minds who are against you, like,
go and find like minded people and work with them
to make the change.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
And it's great.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
I think you can see that a lot with like
things like girls playing football. There's going to be a
lot of people who are really against it, but then
there's going to be people who are open minded and
willing to see that. And if you just band together
instead of focusing on trying to change the minds of
the few, then you're going to make more progress.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
Well, I think the difference too that some people miss
being like a young phenom. I think people assume attention
always feels like validation, but sometimes attention becomes expectation. Right,
So now people are they know you, they see you,
you're targeted. Did you ever feel like the weight of
(10:40):
that viral? You know, you're not to say like, oh,
I'm famous now, but people know me?
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Right?
Speaker 1 (10:47):
If they didn't know I was the only girl on
the team, now they really know me, right because it's
out there. Millions of people know I'm now a big target.
And it's not about like everyone cheering and being like,
oh look what she's doing. She's breaking all these barriers.
But now the expectation is on a nine year old,
right that now you have to show up and show
your proof proof of product, right, proof of Is this
(11:10):
really serious or is it just a little pr stunt?
Did you ever feel that like expectation as a young
kid of oh shit, now I have to carry a
lot on my back. And I like, I was just
doing this because I loved it and it was fun.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Well it was kind of yeah, crazy how quick it turned?
Because I think I told a lot of people that,
like I wasn't trying to prove anything. It was just
like I went out to play and then suddenly I
had this attention, and I definitely felt that my next
season's going out to play with the boys. Like it
did feel like I had something to prove, like I
had to create a highlight video every year to prove that, like, no,
I'm still good at football, like I can still play.
(11:43):
And I think that's more so something that kind of
carried with me through like high school and college. I
ended up playing college soccer, like I was really into
competitive soccer, but also I had this like love for football,
but the opportunities for me to pursue football kind of
just like weren't the same. But I also felt pressure
to continue trying to grow women's football and that sport,
(12:04):
and so that was always kind of just a push
and pull I had, where, you know, there's so many
other things that I wanted to do, but also I
have this platform to speak on with women's football and
so trying to find a balance with that. And we
have our Girls League, girls Tackle football league here in
Utah that we started, which has been great, and anytime
I show up to those fields, it's like that's the
one place I really get recognized. But it's really cute
(12:26):
to see, you know, all these girls really look up
to me, and so that's another moment where I really
try and embrace and you know, sign the little footballs
and ask them about how they play and all those things.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
Well, it's really incredible because you were representing girls everywhere
and to understand the assignment at such an early age,
being like, Okay, well, I want to build something for
these young girls to have a place to play, a
place to perform, a place to feel that they belong.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Stay tuned.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
I'll be back in just a moment after this brief
message from our sponsors. And at what age did you
co found this new tackle football league? How old were you?
Speaker 2 (13:09):
So? I was twelve, and you know, I get a
lot of credit up for it, but I think my
dad is just like a superhero because obviously I could
not start a league as a twelve year old. Yeah,
but there were some other people in Utah that been
wanting to start a league for a while. And the
moment that really clicked for both of us was I
was like speaking at a school assembly and it was like, oh,
(13:29):
you know, how many girls here would want to play
tackle football, and it seemed like almost every hand in
the room went up and I was like, well, wait,
there's this many girls I want to play. Why aren't
we playing? And it is that, like, well, because you're
playing against boys and all the things that come against
they come with that. So we're like, okay, let's start
a league. And then we had fifty spots and they
were filled within three weeks, and then the league has
(13:52):
just continued to grow and now it's just kind of
a self sustaining little community here in Utah.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
Oh my gosh, how did you decide between? You know,
I know it's based probably on opportunity, but like you
went to an ivy league school to play soccer, Like
where did that shift come from? All of a sudden,
You're doing all these incredible things to pave the way
(14:17):
for women in sport, but also at you know, at
the same time, it's kind of like building the plane.
While you're flying it, you're realizing, Oh, maybe soccer is
what's going to give me an education. Maybe it's going
to give me a scholarship. Maybe it's like you were
so ahead of the curve because they didn't you didn't
have access to tackle football, and you know, now flag
(14:39):
football is popping off everywhere and is becoming a big sensation,
But it wasn't going on when you were a kid.
So why did you end up choosing soccer? And was
that really hard for you to step away? Because I've
played college soccer. It is a commitment, it is a
full time job. It is hard, let alone being a student,
(14:59):
a like people have no idea, you know, with the
travel schedule and the practice schedule. I mean, you you
really it becomes your whole identity, It becomes your whole life.
And was that really hard for you stepping away from
football because you it was such a big part of
your life.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
I think it was. It was hard, but I also
kind of at that point didn't think there was anywhere
else I could go with it. So, I mean, I
was always a multi sport athlete, and I think that
really is good for kids, and I wish, I hope
everybody continues to play because I think my football skills
would translate to soccer and my soccer would translate to football,
just like with the way that you can see the field.
(15:39):
So I think I was able to do both growing
up pretty easily, And like I was okay, if sports
was all that I was doing, because I loved it.
But then I remember like my last high school football game,
like just senior year, knowing that that was the end
of that and I really didn't think I was going
to play tackle football again, and that was that was
really sad like, but then moving on to play soccer,
(16:01):
and then always kind of just checking in with my
dad with how the girls league was going and things
like this. And then one of my old well my
friend who was on the team that actually beat us
that last championship year, she was going to start a
women's tackle football team here in Utah, and so we
started talking about that my junior year in college and
(16:22):
I was like, oh wait, there's another way I might
get a play again, and I was so excited. I
do really love soccer, but I think there's something special
about football, and especially tackle football. I think one of
the things that's missing in other sports is like the
diversity of players that can be involved, and I think
tackle football is really special and because you just get
(16:45):
players girls who wouldn't be able to compete in any
other sport, but they can come in to football and
be an MVP. Like there's a place for everybody. If
everybody was the same, you'd have a really bad team.
Like you need different types of players, and so like
the kind of community that I find on a football field,
and like what these girls get out of it is
just so different than other sports.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
Sam. That's so well put because I for me, I
think what you're saying there is like bodies come in
different sizes too. Powerful players can play and look very
different than both of us, and that is we should
(17:29):
reward that. Because what I do know and I know
you know this too, one in every two young girls
by the age of fourteen are dropping out of sport
because of body issues.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Yea.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
And whose fault is that? Mainstream media in my opinion,
because we tell girls that they have to look a
certain way, and they have to fit a certain mold
and they have to be tall and thin and beautiful
and this and that and blue eyes and blonde hair,
and it's like, Okay, that's not the reality, and that's
(18:03):
not what makes us strong and successful at what we do,
which is you know, our sport, our craft are whatever
it is, and we have to be able to change
that and talk about it. Like you know, when you
see football players or rugby play. Like Alona mar she
is powerful. Her body is powerful, she is strong, she
(18:27):
is fit, she is beautiful, and she looks different than me,
but that doesn't make her any less Like she is
a champion through and through. And I do think we
have to continue talking about this because so many girls
when they start hitting puberty or you know, they start
becoming a woman, things change, right, not not only like hormonally,
(18:50):
but your body's changing and you know, you're shifting into
your womanhood and like it's scary. And I think the
more we have safe places to play and talk about
it and understand bodies come in all shape, shapes and sizes,
then all are equally as beautiful. I think a lot
of less young girls. You know, we're talking about fifty
(19:12):
percent of the population who are playing or leading. That's
a big gap. Yeah, that's a big problem.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
And it's like, how do we, yeah, get everybody to
recognize like the value in their own body. And I
think really recognizing that like strength is a great quality
and kind of focusing on like the characteristics of like
what is my body capable of instead of like what
do I look like? In comparing it to yeah, what
we've seen on the media. I think like that was
(19:41):
something even I struggled with almost all of my college teammates.
Like it's just so interesting how pervasive it is in
like competitive women's sports, and like it's something that we
shouldn't have to think about or that young girls shouldn't
even have to notice when they're thinking about playing. And
so I do think that's something special about football is
that you just have girls that learn to value their strength,
(20:02):
value their size, and everybody is valued for their uniqueness.
And like you see a lot of girls who come
and shy, and then by the end of the season,
like you know, they're just out there hitting people and
they're making tackles and they're feeling really great about themselves,
and so you can see a lot of confidence that
comes through playing. I think one of the other things
that's just kind of interesting, and this is just general,
(20:23):
like competitive sports in the US are really expensive, and
like so with our girls league, we have tried to
keep it, you know, affordable, and you're not traveling the
same way, and I think that's something with high school
sports that is great, like you're not traveling to tournaments
and things like this. But I remember my club soccer
by the end, it was like, you're traveling so much
and it's expensive to play, and so that's really a
(20:44):
barrier to a lot.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
Of people massively. It's a massive barrier that we're working
very hard to change because you're right, access is a
problem when it comes to sports, especially soccer, because you
have to pay a lot to get it's seen to
do travel ball to you have, you know, uniforms and
all the things. It's really a pay to play model,
(21:07):
which is backwards, and I think that's why we have
a big issue in our country, especially with men's soccer,
because men's soccer is the biggest global sport, right and
you don't need much. You need a ball and a
park or dirt or gravel. Anyone can play anywhere, and
(21:30):
it doesn't feel the same here. It's such a wealthy
sport for travel soccer. It's really we're losing the plot
on access. And I couldn't agree more. But you know,
at such a young age, you've become such an activist
and you understand the importance of visibility. You understand the
(21:52):
importance of leaving the game better than you found it
and growing opportunity for people you know behind you that
are much younger to have the type of access you
did not. You know, you didn't get to turn the
TV on and be like, oh, she looks like me
and tackle football like I want to be her. And
it's the same conversation I have over and over again
(22:15):
that people are always like, who is your role model?
Growing up? And I was like Tony Hawk and Michael Jordan.
I'm like, hello, I didn't look like any of them.
That's a problem. Like I'm never going to be them. Now.
I can respect what they do and what they've done
for the game, but like the importance of seeing myself
(22:35):
in those spaces are invaluable. And you know, I'm curious,
did football shape your identity or did it reveal it?
Speaker 2 (22:45):
I feel like football really shaped my identity. I don't know.
I mean I was playing from you know, nine years
old all the way through through high school and the
type of discipline and I mean, if you count football
and all the real stuff that I had, and just
like the people that I was meeting in the conversations
that I was having, I think I was exposed to
(23:06):
a lot of nuances of sports and media and you know,
so many of these things really early on that kind
of changed the way that I view the world around me.
So I think it was I had a lot of
experiences at a young age, and you know, just talking
to different celebrities or players that I got to meet
and seeing the ones that were, you know, super supportive
(23:26):
and engaging with me, and then others who were kind
of like dismissive, which I'm not critical of. I know,
if you're like, you know, at that level, you see
so many people, but it did was super meaningful to
me the people that did take the time to connect
with me. And so it's like, Okay, how can I
carry that forward? If I'm ever in the opposite position
where somebody's looking up to me, how can I make
sure that they know I'm I'm seeing them and I'm
(23:47):
you know, engaging with them. So those type of things,
and then the sport itself is just very Everybody's got
to do their job and you have to know, everybody's
got to make their block, and it's a very team sport,
which I I love a lot, and you have to
be disciplined, but that's kind of just sports generally. I
think a lot of meat has been shaped by playing.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
Yeah, so true, and I agree to that. So much
of who I am and my character has been built
in the moments no one sees, and these are invaluable
lessons for young girls to lead one day. What I
love so much is like girls who play sports learn
to lead later in life. You know, so many of
(24:29):
women in high C suite positions played sports growing up,
so it's there, the correlation is there. I'm curious, like,
what legacy do you hope you've already started, because you're
not even done. It's not even you know, some people
ask me, I'm retired, I'm done all these things, but
it's like you're still building this legacy. You're still young,
(24:51):
you're still playing, But like, what do you what do
you hope for?
Speaker 2 (24:56):
I really hope. I mean it's kind of that ex
bosure piece that you were talking about. I mean, just
more young girls not having to think about who they're
looking up to or like whether this is weird for
them to go play this sport. And I think there's
been a lot of movement. Everybody is i mean, everyone
watches women's sports that whole like yeah, and I think
is really cool. And so I think if we can
(25:17):
just pick up on that, and I think it's just
interesting the way that as women we become higher up
in our professions or we and we are just going
to give back to our own communities, I think. And
I'm just really curious to see how the next little
bit goes as far as the growth of women's sports.
But I'm kind of stepping back a little bit. I mean,
still playing and just trying to like are SALTI like
(25:38):
wildcats here, We're trying to build a fan base and
like get people out of the games and stuff, and
so girls from our league can come out and watch
us play. And no like when I was graduating, I
didn't know where I could go next, but now these
girls know, oh, here's a place that you can go next,
and so kind of just building that out. I'm really
interested for flag football to see how that takes off.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
And ye had talked to me about that. Have you
ever been interested in flag football? Because you're freaking killer,
Like it's an Olympic sport now, Like what hello? Like
that is major?
Speaker 2 (26:12):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (26:13):
Is it a totally different game? Is it not something
that you can just like flip flop too? Like to
talk to me?
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Have that?
Speaker 1 (26:21):
Has that ever been a thought process?
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Also?
Speaker 1 (26:23):
I'm like, who's our coach for this Olympics. They should
be calling you relentlessly being like, hey, do you want
to go to the Olympics. Hello?
Speaker 2 (26:32):
Well I think I did think about it for a
little bit, but I'm like, honestly not in a position
to be go full Olympic athlete. And I will give
a lot of credit if I was working with Undergramar
for a while and we were hosting these flag football
camps like across the country, which was really fun, and
there's some really great athletes out there, and like hosting
(26:55):
some of the up and coming, I'm like, they're better
flag football players than I am, so I'm like, oh,
I'll let them take that space. But I do really
enjoy kind of kind of watching it and seeing, okay, yeah,
where you're developing these the youth and like now they
have tournaments to play in and things like this and
a goal to look towards. You're seeing a lot of
attention brought to it. I think one thing that's really
(27:16):
interesting is the way that I mean it's being funded,
like it's really like and then the girls show up,
and I think it just kind of shows that when
you give us an opportunity to play, we will come play,
and like, when you give us an opportunity to grow,
we will grow. And so I think that can translate
to a lot of different sports, and you know semi
pro and pro women's teams that are kind of at
(27:38):
this level. It's really hard to get off the ground
because you're trying to pay for everything when you don't
have any revenue coming in yet, because nobody knows about you,
and so how do you get off the ground. And
flag football is really interesting because people have brought in
a lot of support and so it's gotten off the ground.
But I think it's really cool. I'm really interested to
see whether scholarships come in for and like what you
(28:01):
were saying with me in soccer, recognizing that that's where
I could go get an education is through my sport,
and so flag football can be another avenue for girls
to go get an education. I think that's really important.
I think it lacks a little bit of the football
quality where you can't have kind of those different body
types playing, and it feels like a little bit like
soccer to me, where it's like I can see the
(28:22):
travel tournaments and things like this developing. But I think
it's overall really great opportunity, and I think just like
any exposure, expanding the pie is what my dad says
of just like more girls playing sports is always great.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
Oh it did, absolutely and now we're seeing in real time.
You know, you nail it about investment. And as a
person who played a long time ago, now I think
it was always asked backwards. You're right because people didn't
want to invest until there was proof of value, like
what is like, how am I going to get my
(28:58):
money back? How is their money in this? They always
ask like what we say is reach right that we want?
You know, if we put something in front of you,
whether it's a time slot for football or a timeslot
for women's soccer, it's like, what is the value it's
bringing to my audience and network? Well, how can we
(29:19):
show proof or value when there's zero investment? And to
me as a young kid, it always was like, well
what am I missing? Like what do you mean I
need to show like my value? Look at the product
on the field, Like soccer doesn't have to be We
always called it a four year cycle. People only paid
attention when we're at the World Cup or the Olympics
(29:40):
and we're playing front of sold out stadiums. So people
loved it. Clearly people wanted to be a part of it.
But just like you said, we had no infrastructure, we
had no money. Anyone who at the time I was
playing for the WPS. I mean you, the people who
were in and around you. We're volunteers because they were fans.
(30:03):
But you're seeing in flag football people see the opportunity.
They understand the value. Today's price is not yesterday's price.
You're seeing that in basketball now with billion dollar evaluations
like hello, it's insane. When we start to invest, we
see what the possibilities are, and now in real time
(30:24):
we're seeing, Holy smokes, we are growing a massive business
in women's sports right now and everyone wants to be
a part of it. But everyone didn't used to want
to be a part of it. So we're at a really,
really incredible time. Stay tuned. I'll be back in just
a moment after this brief message from our sponsors. Sam.
(30:49):
I want to know you're so hungry, and I adore
that about you. You know, when you're not playing, you're advocating.
When you're not doing that, you're in freaking law school,
like trying to change the structure around access and all
these things, and it's incredible, But what do you do
(31:10):
for fun? You are still a kid? Who are you
outside of all of these things.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
I mean, I always like, I just love playing sports
generally and being outside. So playing pickup and all that
stuff is great. I'm doing rock climbing right now, like
just like doing everything I can, but also love being outdoors,
like going on hikes Montana from Utah, and so I
feel like I kind of have to be a little
bit into the outdoors. I got really into actually got
(31:40):
a film major at Columbia because I, you know, film
media studies. When I was like growing up, I was like,
this is so interesting the way that like when you
tell somebody's story. I saw how much that impacted my
life and my platform, and so I was kind of
hoping to carry that type of thing forward. And so
I really do like taking videos and like editing things
like that, and so I feel like a little across
(32:02):
the board. I'm kind of what I like to do.
But yeah, I still have a lot of fun, but
a lot of it comes from.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
Sports good and I love that because to tell you
what you are very you get it. Like even when
you say that about storytelling, and loving to film and cut.
Storytelling is so important and what people don't know, ninety
percent of what we see in women's sports is in game.
Ninety percent of what is aired or what is on
(32:28):
anything that is captured by mainstream, ninety percent is in game.
That's not okay, Like for you to fall in love
with players, you need to know who they are. Yeah,
for people to get behind players, to support players, they
need to know who they are so they can identify
with them and say, oh, I want to be just
(32:49):
like that. Oh she looks just like me. If she
can do it, I can do it. But if we're
only seeing ninety percent of that is in game, that
means there's a huge opportunity outside of storytelling. How are
we shaping pregame, post game, social content behind the scenes? Like,
(33:10):
people want this, They want access to your life. They
want to know who you are, especially in women's sports.
And how cool is it nowadays we have social media
where you don't have to wait to be picked. In
my day, there was one face that was it. If
you weren't picked by Nike and you weren't the girl
(33:31):
next door or whatever the cases they wanted for that cycle,
you just fell to the back, and now we have
an interesting opportunity where everyone can have a mic and
everyone can build a business and everyone can build a brand.
And I love that you're doing that.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
Yeah, Like I think when you're a fan of a sport,
you're really a fan of like the players, and the
deeper you know the players, the more you're gonna want
to watch the sport. And so I feel like that's
where the WNBA and like I really wish like we
should just push women's like college sports a lot, because
there you have a narrative, like you're already a fan
of your university and so then get to know that
the players. Like for us at Columbia, actually our women's
(34:10):
basketball team was like the biggest sport that we had,
And it's just really cool because you can get students
behind it. But even within our schools, it's how are
they promoting these games and are they you know, letting
you know the female players as well as the male players,
And yeah, I think that's just really interesting how you
get people involved. But I think the storytelling is is
a big part of it, Like that's how you fall
(34:32):
in love with a player and a team.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
Well, if you look statistically too. Players in the WNBA,
players in the NWSL have more following on social than
they do the clubs they play for. That should tell
you everything you need to know. Oh yeah, the biggest
players in the world have way more following than the
teams they play for. So that shows you they want
(34:56):
access to who these people are. It's not just about
them playing. It's not just about the New York Liberty,
It's about Stewie. I want to know who Stuwie is.
I want to know everything about stuwe. I want to
know about the kids. I want to know about partners.
I want to know about how you show up in
the world, like I want to know what your fit
is for this week and how you decided it, and
(35:16):
like all of these things, because that is the through
line for connection. People feel something and they're moved by
it and they want to continue supporting it. And that's
where I think we have to really encourage people to start.
Just it doesn't have to be polished, it doesn't have
to be perfection. Just meet people where are they at.
(35:38):
They want realness.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
Yeah, that's it, And it's so easy. Like what you
were saying on social media now, like go build your
brand like put yourself out there and your team out there.
And I think I've seen a lot of like women's
teams like I don't know, like you do funny little
skits or you just do questions of the day and
like it's players and it's real content, and it gives
you an opportunity to kind of connect with them and
that stuff like we've been trying to do with our
team a lot. See like other teams in our league
(36:01):
do it, and it is like it can work pretty well,
and I think it's just important that everybody gets out there.
And it also kind of changes the narrative a little bit,
Like the more that you see female athletes and women's
sports like on your own feet are just kind of
like sharing the media space. It's just it's more of
an equal opportunity, I guess, to like expose yourself than
(36:25):
some of your you know, mainstream media like channels and
stuff where you don't have the same access to get
in there. Like you were saying, until you get picked,
that's so true.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
Well, before we tie a bow on everything, I want
to do a rapid fire little question for you. Okay,
I've got a few, no stress though, Okay, what was
your favorite NFL player growing up.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
I really liked JJ Watt.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
Oh, come on, he's the best.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
Yeah, he's really cool.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
Who is your favorite athlete growing up that you love
to watch.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
I really liked Abby wand back. I think there was
just one time she like split her head up and
then just stabled it right on the sideline, and that
was like really she was She was really cool to me.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
I So now we're going to stop this rapid fire
because I was there for that game, and I need
to just tell you this story because she is the
most iconic person I've ever met in my life. Also,
that moment was probably one of my scariest moments. So
we were at qualifying for the World Cup in Mexico,
playing against Mexico. We weren't winning. If we did not
(37:33):
win this game, we had to go into a wild
card to make sure we got ourselves into the World Cup.
And she got nailed and split her head so bad.
But it kept bleeding and it kept bleeding and you
can't have blood on the field, and she refused to
come off the field, so she ran over to the sideline.
(37:56):
I was like on the sideline and she was like
looked at our and she was like, staple it. And
I was like, everyone was like, oh my god. It
was literally it was it's slow mow in my head
and it's like a movie reel and I see him
like pull this thing out and he's just like douche,
douche stapling her head on the sideline. Who and she's
(38:20):
like wrap it.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
Now.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
There was a lot more cuss words enough, but she
had them wrap it, and she like ran back on
the field. And when I tell you, she was still
heading the ball with staples in her head, so let
that sink in. But after the game she had to go,
you know, because we're we're in some random remote location
(38:43):
in Mexico at the time. The doctor had to remove
the staples to stitch it correctly because it was on
her face. I'm like, you are not real, Abby, You're
not real. If that was a man playing in this world, please,
he'd be on the floor and we would have the stretcher.
(39:04):
We would be like medical Like. She ran over to
the hut literally told the doctor staple it.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
I was not so insane.
Speaker 1 (39:13):
You were the most iconic person I've ever met in
my life. And you go, girl, because WHOA not enough
people talk about that, but she could have things popping
through her body broken, and she's still out there somehow
running with one leg. I mean, I kid you not.
What's your favorite football memory?
Speaker 2 (39:31):
M I think the very first year we got to
play in like high school stadium for our championship, and
it was like my first experience being underneath the lights,
and like it just felt epic, like being on the
turf field. And then my dad was actually coaching the
opposite team, which was really funny, and so I saw
him move this player that's usually in one position to
(39:54):
like a receiver position, and I was like, oh, he
is throwing the ball to her. And so then I
go and mark and I the ball and then like
the end of the game, and it was a good
game and I beat him, and so that was really cool,
and it was just like being under the stadium lights,
which I'd never been able to do before, was really exciting.
Speaker 1 (40:11):
Love that. What a great story. What's one woman in
sports that everyone should know that you think people don't
know enough of?
Speaker 2 (40:20):
Well, I think a lot of Mayor has been my
I mean, but she's getting a lot of the attention
right now, so I'm like trying to think of somebody
a little more niche. But I remember like finding her
and thinking that she was just like the coolest person ever.
And I mean a lot of what we already kind
of talked about, but that that body image thing and
seeing her go on like Sports Illustrated and doing these
kind of shoots that it's like showing that off and
(40:42):
you're the Victoria Secret Model. Like I think it's just
such a different type of athlete or like then we've
been exposed to in the media, like usually that's just
not what we've been pushed to see. And so I
think that's just one that I love to highlight.
Speaker 1 (40:55):
She is incredible. What's something you've been brave enough to
say too.
Speaker 2 (41:02):
I think, well, my last season of college soccer, I
didn't actually play, and a lot of that was so
that I could want to focus on going doing the
l SAD and setting for law school stuff, but also
so I could jump back into playing tackle football, and
so I got to play tackle football that season instead.
(41:22):
And so that was I guess, not really me saying no,
but being able to kind of step back from something
that I had been doing my entire life, and it
kind of, you know, I found all of my greatest
friends on that team and still loved playing, but just
kind of being able to recognize when something isn't for
me anymore, or like I need to prioritize other things.
(41:43):
But that was kind of a big step and took
a lot of conversations, but I think it was a
good transition. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:51):
Absolutely, What's one lesson sports gave you that life couldn't.
Speaker 2 (41:55):
I think just discipline generally, And I think my biggest
thing that I tell people is the way that you're
able to see the work you put in pay off.
Like I run for I do my wind sprints and
suddenly I'm faster, or like I do these soccer drills
and now I have a better touch on the ball.
Like you can see the work you put in translate
(42:16):
so well to like your performance. And I think that's
encouraged me in school and everywhere else to be like,
if I put the work in, it's going to pay off,
and also recognizing that if you don't put the work in,
you're going to remain at the same spot. And so
really that lesson of like effort and discipline is how
you are going to succeed in life. And I think
(42:37):
it's really hard to get that without sports or I
think any other hobby like where you have to train,
but it's really important to have that and recognize it
before you move into your profession or other places where
you still have to put that same effort and discipline
in but it's less tangible. So good.
Speaker 1 (42:55):
Yeah, absolutely, And the last question I want to ask,
as such a young phenom that you were very early,
what's one word your younger self needed to hear.
Speaker 2 (43:10):
The word that comes to mind is community, which I
think I had within my family a lot and like
my support system, but I wish I recognized even more
the way that women's sports can give back to each
other and the way that you can find community within
your sport. And I think just like really prioritizing that
like that we can all really lift each other up
(43:31):
by just like being a fan of each other or
like finding other athletes who have experienced similar things. Like
I think the community here can be so strong, and
I wish I was able to tap into that earlier.
Speaker 1 (43:43):
It's really really powerful and it's so true. Well, Sam,
thank you so much for being on. Thank you for
your vulnerability, your honesty, but most importantly it's your activism
and paving possibility for a lot of young women. So
I'm grateful for the work you've already put in at
(44:04):
such an early age. And you're right, it doesn't stop here.
We have to protect Title nine, we have to protect
opportunities for safe spaces for people to play. And look
what it's given us both over the years. I really
really believe that growing up in a locker room prepares
(44:26):
you for life, and those lessons are invaluable. So I
appreciate you being on. I appreciate you using your voice
for good and if you ever need anything, you know
I'm always in your corner.
Speaker 2 (44:38):
Sounds great.
Speaker 1 (44:38):
Thank you for having me, of course. Thanks Sam. All Right, everyone,
well that's our episode and we'll see you next week
on Wide Open. Long before conversations around girls in football
became mainstream, Sam Gordon was actually living it. She wasn't
asking permission, She simply showed up and played. What stayed
(44:59):
with me most about this conversation isn't that Sam played football.
It's that she never waited for someone else to decide
she belonged. That's a lesson that extends way beyond sports.
Whether we're walking into a boardroom, a locker room, a
classroom or simply trying to become the fullest version of yourself.
(45:21):
There will always be voices telling you where your limits are.
Sam reminds us that sometimes the most powerful thing you
can do is keep showing up anyway. Sam, thank you
for sharing your story and for continuing to make space
for the next generation of young girls. And thank you
to everyone listening. If this conversation resonates with you, share
(45:42):
it with someone who needs a reminder that they don't
have to fit someone else's idea of what is possible.
Until next time. This is wide open and I'm Ashlyn Harris.
Speaker 2 (46:01):
Four
Hi everyone, and welcome back to another episode of Wide Open.
I'm your host Ashlyn Harris, and today's guest is someone
many of us met when she.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Was just a kid.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
A viral highlight reel introduced the world to a fearless
little girl running through defenders on a football field. But
what fascinated me wasn't the touchdowns. It was her conviction.
Long before conversations around girls in football became mainstream, Sam
Gordon was actually living in it. She wasn't asking permission, She
(00:31):
simply showed up and played. Since then, she's been advocating,
she's been an athlete, she's been someone who has helped
shift the conversation around opportunity for girls in sports. Today,
I want to talk less about the headlines and more
about the person behind them. Sam, Welcome to the show. Hi, Sam,
(01:01):
Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
How are you. Hi? I'm good. How are you? Oh?
Speaker 1 (01:06):
I'm so good. I'm glad to be back. I just
I actually just came back from vacation, so you're you know,
you're getting me fresh off of the fresh Montana sky.
I mean, it was one of the most incredible experiences
I've had in a long time. Have you been to Montana.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
We're actually going up to Montana later this week. We
go every summer. Awesome.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
It was spectacular. I can't believe how beautiful it is.
And I had no idea there's like so much beauty
in the US that I'm just like, it's so stupid
why I travel all over the world to go on
vacations when we have so much to see in our
own country. So it was a good food for thought
(01:50):
for me.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Like all of our national parks are.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Just oh my god, Yellowstone was incredible. But back to you,
thank you so much for coming on the show. I'm
so excited to dive into so much that that you've
done since you were like a kid. You're living like
well beyond your years, honey, what are you twenty three? Now?
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Twenty three?
Speaker 1 (02:11):
Yeah, oh my god. We all remember you from all
the viral moments of you playing football. So for our
viewers and our listeners out there who don't know who
you are, Sam, you were just this little fireball on
the football field playing with boys, and I believe your
(02:34):
dad put a reel out correct and it just went viral,
like millions of people were watching it. But before all
these people knew your name. What was it like, like,
you know, who is the little girl? I mean at
the time, I believe what you were nine years old, yeah,
nine years old. Oh my god, you were like this
little grom in this football gear, just working all these boys.
(02:57):
What was it like for you, Like, was it always
like love it first sight for the game or were
you just always a little competitor.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
I was always just really competitive. I played like every
sport I could possibly do, and I was playing competitive soccer.
My older brother was playing football. And then after my
soccer practices, I would go to his football practices and
they were running wind sprints and for some reason, I
was like Dad, like can I go run with them?
Of course I don't know, and then he'd be like, yeah,
(03:26):
just stay out of their way, and so then I
would go and I'd beat most of the players on
his team, even though there were three years older than me,
and I would just like continue to do this after
their practices, and then eventually the coach was like, Sam,
like you should play football, and I was like, oh, yeah,
why not? And like, I don't know, my dad racist
in a way, like I didn't even think about it,
like meeting a girl going to play and then coming
out there that first season at tryouts, like I got
(03:48):
first in every single speed and agility drill out of
one hundred and seventy two boys, which was pretty cool.
But I trained like the six months before football because
my dad was like, if you're gonna play like you
gotta be good basically, but there were chants like in
the lines to be like beat the girl, beat the girl,
like I really, you know, had a target on my
back in a ponytail. So it was it was a
(04:08):
big season, but it was fun.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
I love that.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
That's such a good line too, because it's it makes
me like feel so warm inside because I grew up
playing with boys, and like I it gives me this
like feeling of when because same, I had an older
brother and he played baseball and football, and I always
(04:31):
had to go to my brother's practices, so I always
played with him, and he was two years older than me,
so I always played up.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
And it's it's so cool to hear that. And what
I love what you just said too, is like your dad,
I think this is a really important thing. And I
get it because I live this in my family. My
dad never treated me differently than my brother, which opened
up a lot of possibilities.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
In my mind.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
And I had this conversation with Billy Jean King and
says the same thing. She had an older brother. And
it's so interesting. All of us young girls who grew
up playing believe that we were good enough to be
a part of sports, whether it had anything to do
with boys or girls. And I think that confidence at
(05:19):
a very very early age that our fathers or our
mothers instill in us that these things are impossible because
what I've realized, and I know, you know, curious of
what you think. Most people think it's unusual for women
or girls to play like sports with boys. But the
(05:42):
only thing it makes it unusual is the adults, Like
they are the ones who make people feel like we
can't do these things, because at our core, we know
we can, we know we can hang, we know we're
good enough, we know the possibilities. But it's like the
barriers actually come from the adults, it's not from us.
And I love that bullish mentality that you have of like, yeah,
(06:05):
why not me, I can do this.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
I think it's so interesting how early those type of
mindsets can like set on and translate from the parents
to the kids, and so you see a lot of
my friends were like wait, what, Like you're gonna play
football and I was like, yeah, like why not and
like just kind of having that different environment growing up.
Or like I was playing football with the boys at
recess and my dad didn't tell me this actually, but
(06:29):
until quite a bit later, but during my third grade
parent teacher conference, my teacher like sat with my dad
and had me leave the room and was like, hey,
like you need to have her stop playing football with
the boys during recess, Like she thought it was gonna,
you know, set me down a wrong path. And I
was like, I don't know. And he didn't tell me that,
but yeah, she was so concerned that I was playing
(06:50):
sports with the boys that she felt the need to
tell him. So anyways, it's just really interesting to see
how different that mindset is, and then it impacts more
than just sports but your entire life, like confidence of
like that there's a path I have to go into
or I can do anything.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
Here's the funny part that people don't understand, and I
want people to hear this. Kids usually don't understand limitations
until adults introduce them to it. So when did you
first realize like people were questioning your place, Like I
know you didn't hear that from your teacher, but when
did it like kind of be like, oh, this like
(07:25):
this makes people feel a kind of way seeing me
out there performing at a high level and crushing these
young kids, like especially boys, Like when did you realize? Oh,
people were starting to question it.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
I feel like there were a couple different moments. One
was like during tryouts for that first time and like
having chance against me or i'd you know, knock a
boy on his butt and then the parent comes out
and like yells in his face and it's like, don't
get beat by a girl, like it's always the emphasis.
I'm like, yeah, the girl saying you know. And then
after those tryouts, when I you know, it was first
and all these drills I had had eighty boys that
(08:00):
were picked ahead of me, and so I was placed
on one of the lower level teams, and that was
really my first moment of like whoa, you know, feeling
discriminated against because of my gender. And I like had
to talk with my dad and was like, why didn't
I get placed on one of the top teams and
kind of he was explaining to me that it was
like just because I'm a girl, and then you know,
coming out that season and wanting to prove something. But
(08:22):
it was just like every game i'd play against the
team and get some cheap shots against me. People are
always like, oh, the boys are you know, they're going
easy on you because you're a girl out there, and
it's like no, they're they're hitting harder because they don't
want to get beat by a girl. So there was
that whole experience. And then of course once the video
went viral, it is like shocking how many middle aged
men cared about this nine year old girl and like
(08:44):
wanted to comment and be like I could beat you
in football, and it's like, well maybe like you're forty,
Like I don't know, but just so many people kind
of having their input on like this video of me
playing and telling me not to play or getting back
in the kitchen, just like all of those YouTube comments,
just the whole.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
So you were were you reading those because now I
want to dive into it because it was a very
big viral moment. I imagine it changed your life very quickly,
and I think it's important to talk about that because
you were so young. Were you actually reading those comments?
Or is that was that like later down the line
you were just focused on being a kid.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
I think it was a little bit later than I
actually read them. My dad was managing like all of
my social media when I was younger, which was good.
But also I think I had a really good team
around me, like with my dad, with my brothers, like,
I had a lot of support, and so those type
of comments, I actually thought they were funny, Like they
didn't really get to me in any way other than like, wow,
this is this is new for a lot of people
(09:45):
to see a girl out on the football field. So
I was exposed to a lot of those comments. But
I felt like my dad's whole quote is just like,
don't try and change people's minds who are against you, like,
go and find like minded people and work with them
to make the change.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
And it's great.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
I think you can see that a lot with like
things like girls playing football. There's going to be a
lot of people who are really against it, but then
there's going to be people who are open minded and
willing to see that. And if you just band together
instead of focusing on trying to change the minds of
the few, then you're going to make more progress.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
Well, I think the difference too that some people miss
being like a young phenom. I think people assume attention
always feels like validation, but sometimes attention becomes expectation. Right,
So now people are they know you, they see you,
you're targeted. Did you ever feel like the weight of
(10:40):
that viral? You know, you're not to say like, oh,
I'm famous now, but people know me?
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Right?
Speaker 1 (10:47):
If they didn't know I was the only girl on
the team, now they really know me, right because it's
out there. Millions of people know I'm now a big target.
And it's not about like everyone cheering and being like,
oh look what she's doing. She's breaking all these barriers.
But now the expectation is on a nine year old,
right that now you have to show up and show
your proof proof of product, right, proof of Is this
(11:10):
really serious or is it just a little pr stunt?
Did you ever feel that like expectation as a young
kid of oh shit, now I have to carry a
lot on my back. And I like, I was just
doing this because I loved it and it was fun.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Well it was kind of yeah, crazy how quick it turned?
Because I think I told a lot of people that,
like I wasn't trying to prove anything. It was just
like I went out to play and then suddenly I
had this attention, and I definitely felt that my next
season's going out to play with the boys. Like it
did feel like I had something to prove, like I
had to create a highlight video every year to prove that, like, no,
I'm still good at football, like I can still play.
(11:43):
And I think that's more so something that kind of
carried with me through like high school and college. I
ended up playing college soccer, like I was really into
competitive soccer, but also I had this like love for football,
but the opportunities for me to pursue football kind of
just like weren't the same. But I also felt pressure
to continue trying to grow women's football and that sport,
(12:04):
and so that was always kind of just a push
and pull I had, where, you know, there's so many
other things that I wanted to do, but also I
have this platform to speak on with women's football and
so trying to find a balance with that. And we
have our Girls League, girls Tackle football league here in
Utah that we started, which has been great, and anytime
I show up to those fields, it's like that's the
one place I really get recognized. But it's really cute
(12:26):
to see, you know, all these girls really look up
to me, and so that's another moment where I really
try and embrace and you know, sign the little footballs
and ask them about how they play and all those things.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
Well, it's really incredible because you were representing girls everywhere
and to understand the assignment at such an early age,
being like, Okay, well, I want to build something for
these young girls to have a place to play, a
place to perform, a place to feel that they belong.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Stay tuned.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
I'll be back in just a moment after this brief
message from our sponsors. And at what age did you
co found this new tackle football league? How old were you?
Speaker 2 (13:09):
So? I was twelve, and you know, I get a
lot of credit up for it, but I think my
dad is just like a superhero because obviously I could
not start a league as a twelve year old. Yeah,
but there were some other people in Utah that been
wanting to start a league for a while. And the
moment that really clicked for both of us was I
was like speaking at a school assembly and it was like, oh,
(13:29):
you know, how many girls here would want to play
tackle football, and it seemed like almost every hand in
the room went up and I was like, well, wait,
there's this many girls I want to play. Why aren't
we playing? And it is that, like, well, because you're
playing against boys and all the things that come against
they come with that. So we're like, okay, let's start
a league. And then we had fifty spots and they
were filled within three weeks, and then the league has
(13:52):
just continued to grow and now it's just kind of
a self sustaining little community here in Utah.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
Oh my gosh, how did you decide between? You know,
I know it's based probably on opportunity, but like you
went to an ivy league school to play soccer, Like
where did that shift come from? All of a sudden,
You're doing all these incredible things to pave the way
(14:17):
for women in sport, but also at you know, at
the same time, it's kind of like building the plane.
While you're flying it, you're realizing, Oh, maybe soccer is
what's going to give me an education. Maybe it's going
to give me a scholarship. Maybe it's like you were
so ahead of the curve because they didn't you didn't
have access to tackle football, and you know, now flag
(14:39):
football is popping off everywhere and is becoming a big sensation,
But it wasn't going on when you were a kid.
So why did you end up choosing soccer? And was
that really hard for you to step away? Because I've
played college soccer. It is a commitment, it is a
full time job. It is hard, let alone being a student,
(14:59):
a like people have no idea, you know, with the
travel schedule and the practice schedule. I mean, you you
really it becomes your whole identity, It becomes your whole life.
And was that really hard for you stepping away from
football because you it was such a big part of
your life.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
I think it was. It was hard, but I also
kind of at that point didn't think there was anywhere
else I could go with it. So, I mean, I
was always a multi sport athlete, and I think that
really is good for kids, and I wish, I hope
everybody continues to play because I think my football skills
would translate to soccer and my soccer would translate to football,
just like with the way that you can see the field.
(15:39):
So I think I was able to do both growing
up pretty easily, And like I was okay, if sports
was all that I was doing, because I loved it.
But then I remember like my last high school football game,
like just senior year, knowing that that was the end
of that and I really didn't think I was going
to play tackle football again, and that was that was
really sad like, but then moving on to play soccer,
(16:01):
and then always kind of just checking in with my
dad with how the girls league was going and things
like this. And then one of my old well my
friend who was on the team that actually beat us
that last championship year, she was going to start a
women's tackle football team here in Utah, and so we
started talking about that my junior year in college and
(16:22):
I was like, oh wait, there's another way I might
get a play again, and I was so excited. I
do really love soccer, but I think there's something special
about football, and especially tackle football. I think one of
the things that's missing in other sports is like the
diversity of players that can be involved, and I think
tackle football is really special and because you just get
(16:45):
players girls who wouldn't be able to compete in any
other sport, but they can come in to football and
be an MVP. Like there's a place for everybody. If
everybody was the same, you'd have a really bad team.
Like you need different types of players, and so like
the kind of community that I find on a football field,
and like what these girls get out of it is
just so different than other sports.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
Sam. That's so well put because I for me, I
think what you're saying there is like bodies come in
different sizes too. Powerful players can play and look very
different than both of us, and that is we should
(17:29):
reward that. Because what I do know and I know
you know this too, one in every two young girls
by the age of fourteen are dropping out of sport
because of body issues.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Yea.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
And whose fault is that? Mainstream media in my opinion,
because we tell girls that they have to look a
certain way, and they have to fit a certain mold
and they have to be tall and thin and beautiful
and this and that and blue eyes and blonde hair,
and it's like, Okay, that's not the reality, and that's
(18:03):
not what makes us strong and successful at what we do,
which is you know, our sport, our craft are whatever
it is, and we have to be able to change
that and talk about it. Like you know, when you
see football players or rugby play. Like Alona mar she
is powerful. Her body is powerful, she is strong, she
(18:27):
is fit, she is beautiful, and she looks different than me,
but that doesn't make her any less Like she is
a champion through and through. And I do think we
have to continue talking about this because so many girls
when they start hitting puberty or you know, they start
becoming a woman, things change, right, not not only like hormonally,
(18:50):
but your body's changing and you know, you're shifting into
your womanhood and like it's scary. And I think the
more we have safe places to play and talk about
it and understand bodies come in all shape, shapes and sizes,
then all are equally as beautiful. I think a lot
of less young girls. You know, we're talking about fifty
(19:12):
percent of the population who are playing or leading. That's
a big gap. Yeah, that's a big problem.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
And it's like, how do we, yeah, get everybody to
recognize like the value in their own body. And I
think really recognizing that like strength is a great quality
and kind of focusing on like the characteristics of like
what is my body capable of instead of like what
do I look like? In comparing it to yeah, what
we've seen on the media. I think like that was
(19:41):
something even I struggled with almost all of my college teammates.
Like it's just so interesting how pervasive it is in
like competitive women's sports, and like it's something that we
shouldn't have to think about or that young girls shouldn't
even have to notice when they're thinking about playing. And
so I do think that's something special about football is
that you just have girls that learn to value their strength,
(20:02):
value their size, and everybody is valued for their uniqueness.
And like you see a lot of girls who come
and shy, and then by the end of the season,
like you know, they're just out there hitting people and
they're making tackles and they're feeling really great about themselves,
and so you can see a lot of confidence that
comes through playing. I think one of the other things
that's just kind of interesting, and this is just general,
(20:23):
like competitive sports in the US are really expensive, and
like so with our girls league, we have tried to
keep it, you know, affordable, and you're not traveling the
same way, and I think that's something with high school
sports that is great, like you're not traveling to tournaments
and things like this. But I remember my club soccer
by the end, it was like, you're traveling so much
and it's expensive to play, and so that's really a
(20:44):
barrier to a lot.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
Of people massively. It's a massive barrier that we're working
very hard to change because you're right, access is a
problem when it comes to sports, especially soccer, because you
have to pay a lot to get it's seen to
do travel ball to you have, you know, uniforms and
all the things. It's really a pay to play model,
(21:07):
which is backwards, and I think that's why we have
a big issue in our country, especially with men's soccer,
because men's soccer is the biggest global sport, right and
you don't need much. You need a ball and a
park or dirt or gravel. Anyone can play anywhere, and
(21:30):
it doesn't feel the same here. It's such a wealthy
sport for travel soccer. It's really we're losing the plot
on access. And I couldn't agree more. But you know,
at such a young age, you've become such an activist
and you understand the importance of visibility. You understand the
(21:52):
importance of leaving the game better than you found it
and growing opportunity for people you know behind you that
are much younger to have the type of access you
did not. You know, you didn't get to turn the
TV on and be like, oh, she looks like me
and tackle football like I want to be her. And
it's the same conversation I have over and over again
(22:15):
that people are always like, who is your role model?
Growing up? And I was like Tony Hawk and Michael Jordan.
I'm like, hello, I didn't look like any of them.
That's a problem. Like I'm never going to be them. Now.
I can respect what they do and what they've done
for the game, but like the importance of seeing myself
(22:35):
in those spaces are invaluable. And you know, I'm curious,
did football shape your identity or did it reveal it?
Speaker 2 (22:45):
I feel like football really shaped my identity. I don't know.
I mean I was playing from you know, nine years
old all the way through through high school and the
type of discipline and I mean, if you count football
and all the real stuff that I had, and just
like the people that I was meeting in the conversations
that I was having, I think I was exposed to
(23:06):
a lot of nuances of sports and media and you know,
so many of these things really early on that kind
of changed the way that I view the world around me.
So I think it was I had a lot of
experiences at a young age, and you know, just talking
to different celebrities or players that I got to meet
and seeing the ones that were, you know, super supportive
(23:26):
and engaging with me, and then others who were kind
of like dismissive, which I'm not critical of. I know,
if you're like, you know, at that level, you see
so many people, but it did was super meaningful to
me the people that did take the time to connect
with me. And so it's like, Okay, how can I
carry that forward? If I'm ever in the opposite position
where somebody's looking up to me, how can I make
sure that they know I'm I'm seeing them and I'm
(23:47):
you know, engaging with them. So those type of things,
and then the sport itself is just very Everybody's got
to do their job and you have to know, everybody's
got to make their block, and it's a very team sport,
which I I love a lot, and you have to
be disciplined, but that's kind of just sports generally. I
think a lot of meat has been shaped by playing.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
Yeah, so true, and I agree to that. So much
of who I am and my character has been built
in the moments no one sees, and these are invaluable
lessons for young girls to lead one day. What I
love so much is like girls who play sports learn
to lead later in life. You know, so many of
(24:29):
women in high C suite positions played sports growing up,
so it's there, the correlation is there. I'm curious, like,
what legacy do you hope you've already started, because you're
not even done. It's not even you know, some people
ask me, I'm retired, I'm done all these things, but
it's like you're still building this legacy. You're still young,
(24:51):
you're still playing, But like, what do you what do
you hope for?
Speaker 2 (24:56):
I really hope. I mean it's kind of that ex
bosure piece that you were talking about. I mean, just
more young girls not having to think about who they're
looking up to or like whether this is weird for
them to go play this sport. And I think there's
been a lot of movement. Everybody is i mean, everyone
watches women's sports that whole like yeah, and I think
is really cool. And so I think if we can
(25:17):
just pick up on that, and I think it's just
interesting the way that as women we become higher up
in our professions or we and we are just going
to give back to our own communities, I think. And
I'm just really curious to see how the next little
bit goes as far as the growth of women's sports.
But I'm kind of stepping back a little bit. I mean,
still playing and just trying to like are SALTI like
(25:38):
wildcats here, We're trying to build a fan base and
like get people out of the games and stuff, and
so girls from our league can come out and watch
us play. And no like when I was graduating, I
didn't know where I could go next, but now these
girls know, oh, here's a place that you can go next,
and so kind of just building that out. I'm really
interested for flag football to see how that takes off.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
And ye had talked to me about that. Have you
ever been interested in flag football? Because you're freaking killer,
Like it's an Olympic sport now, Like what hello? Like
that is major?
Speaker 2 (26:12):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (26:13):
Is it a totally different game? Is it not something
that you can just like flip flop too? Like to
talk to me?
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Have that?
Speaker 1 (26:21):
Has that ever been a thought process?
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Also?
Speaker 1 (26:23):
I'm like, who's our coach for this Olympics. They should
be calling you relentlessly being like, hey, do you want
to go to the Olympics. Hello?
Speaker 2 (26:32):
Well I think I did think about it for a
little bit, but I'm like, honestly not in a position
to be go full Olympic athlete. And I will give
a lot of credit if I was working with Undergramar
for a while and we were hosting these flag football
camps like across the country, which was really fun, and
there's some really great athletes out there, and like hosting
(26:55):
some of the up and coming, I'm like, they're better
flag football players than I am, so I'm like, oh,
I'll let them take that space. But I do really
enjoy kind of kind of watching it and seeing, okay, yeah,
where you're developing these the youth and like now they
have tournaments to play in and things like this and
a goal to look towards. You're seeing a lot of
attention brought to it. I think one thing that's really
(27:16):
interesting is the way that I mean it's being funded,
like it's really like and then the girls show up,
and I think it just kind of shows that when
you give us an opportunity to play, we will come play,
and like, when you give us an opportunity to grow,
we will grow. And so I think that can translate
to a lot of different sports, and you know semi
pro and pro women's teams that are kind of at
(27:38):
this level. It's really hard to get off the ground
because you're trying to pay for everything when you don't
have any revenue coming in yet, because nobody knows about you,
and so how do you get off the ground. And
flag football is really interesting because people have brought in
a lot of support and so it's gotten off the ground.
But I think it's really cool. I'm really interested to
see whether scholarships come in for and like what you
(28:01):
were saying with me in soccer, recognizing that that's where
I could go get an education is through my sport,
and so flag football can be another avenue for girls
to go get an education. I think that's really important.
I think it lacks a little bit of the football
quality where you can't have kind of those different body
types playing, and it feels like a little bit like
soccer to me, where it's like I can see the
(28:22):
travel tournaments and things like this developing. But I think
it's overall really great opportunity, and I think just like
any exposure, expanding the pie is what my dad says
of just like more girls playing sports is always great.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
Oh it did, absolutely and now we're seeing in real time.
You know, you nail it about investment. And as a
person who played a long time ago, now I think
it was always asked backwards. You're right because people didn't
want to invest until there was proof of value, like
what is like, how am I going to get my
(28:58):
money back? How is their money in this? They always
ask like what we say is reach right that we want?
You know, if we put something in front of you,
whether it's a time slot for football or a timeslot
for women's soccer, it's like, what is the value it's
bringing to my audience and network? Well, how can we
(29:19):
show proof or value when there's zero investment? And to
me as a young kid, it always was like, well
what am I missing? Like what do you mean I
need to show like my value? Look at the product
on the field, Like soccer doesn't have to be We
always called it a four year cycle. People only paid
attention when we're at the World Cup or the Olympics
(29:40):
and we're playing front of sold out stadiums. So people
loved it. Clearly people wanted to be a part of it.
But just like you said, we had no infrastructure, we
had no money. Anyone who at the time I was
playing for the WPS. I mean you, the people who
were in and around you. We're volunteers because they were fans.
(30:03):
But you're seeing in flag football people see the opportunity.
They understand the value. Today's price is not yesterday's price.
You're seeing that in basketball now with billion dollar evaluations
like hello, it's insane. When we start to invest, we
see what the possibilities are, and now in real time
(30:24):
we're seeing, Holy smokes, we are growing a massive business
in women's sports right now and everyone wants to be
a part of it. But everyone didn't used to want
to be a part of it. So we're at a really,
really incredible time. Stay tuned. I'll be back in just
a moment after this brief message from our sponsors. Sam.
(30:49):
I want to know you're so hungry, and I adore
that about you. You know, when you're not playing, you're advocating.
When you're not doing that, you're in freaking law school,
like trying to change the structure around access and all
these things, and it's incredible, But what do you do
(31:10):
for fun? You are still a kid? Who are you
outside of all of these things.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
I mean, I always like, I just love playing sports
generally and being outside. So playing pickup and all that
stuff is great. I'm doing rock climbing right now, like
just like doing everything I can, but also love being outdoors,
like going on hikes Montana from Utah, and so I
feel like I kind of have to be a little
bit into the outdoors. I got really into actually got
(31:40):
a film major at Columbia because I, you know, film
media studies. When I was like growing up, I was like,
this is so interesting the way that like when you
tell somebody's story. I saw how much that impacted my
life and my platform, and so I was kind of
hoping to carry that type of thing forward. And so
I really do like taking videos and like editing things
like that, and so I feel like a little across
(32:02):
the board. I'm kind of what I like to do.
But yeah, I still have a lot of fun, but
a lot of it comes from.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
Sports good and I love that because to tell you
what you are very you get it. Like even when
you say that about storytelling, and loving to film and cut.
Storytelling is so important and what people don't know, ninety
percent of what we see in women's sports is in game.
Ninety percent of what is aired or what is on
(32:28):
anything that is captured by mainstream, ninety percent is in game.
That's not okay, Like for you to fall in love
with players, you need to know who they are. Yeah,
for people to get behind players, to support players, they
need to know who they are so they can identify
with them and say, oh, I want to be just
(32:49):
like that. Oh she looks just like me. If she
can do it, I can do it. But if we're
only seeing ninety percent of that is in game, that
means there's a huge opportunity outside of storytelling. How are
we shaping pregame, post game, social content behind the scenes? Like,
(33:10):
people want this, They want access to your life. They
want to know who you are, especially in women's sports.
And how cool is it nowadays we have social media
where you don't have to wait to be picked. In
my day, there was one face that was it. If
you weren't picked by Nike and you weren't the girl
(33:31):
next door or whatever the cases they wanted for that cycle,
you just fell to the back, and now we have
an interesting opportunity where everyone can have a mic and
everyone can build a business and everyone can build a brand.
And I love that you're doing that.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
Yeah, Like I think when you're a fan of a sport,
you're really a fan of like the players, and the
deeper you know the players, the more you're gonna want
to watch the sport. And so I feel like that's
where the WNBA and like I really wish like we
should just push women's like college sports a lot, because
there you have a narrative, like you're already a fan
of your university and so then get to know that
the players. Like for us at Columbia, actually our women's
(34:10):
basketball team was like the biggest sport that we had,
And it's just really cool because you can get students
behind it. But even within our schools, it's how are
they promoting these games and are they you know, letting
you know the female players as well as the male players,
And yeah, I think that's just really interesting how you
get people involved. But I think the storytelling is is
a big part of it, Like that's how you fall
(34:32):
in love with a player and a team.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
Well, if you look statistically too. Players in the WNBA,
players in the NWSL have more following on social than
they do the clubs they play for. That should tell
you everything you need to know. Oh yeah, the biggest
players in the world have way more following than the
teams they play for. So that shows you they want
(34:56):
access to who these people are. It's not just about
them playing. It's not just about the New York Liberty,
It's about Stewie. I want to know who Stuwie is.
I want to know everything about stuwe. I want to
know about the kids. I want to know about partners.
I want to know about how you show up in
the world, like I want to know what your fit
is for this week and how you decided it, and
(35:16):
like all of these things, because that is the through
line for connection. People feel something and they're moved by
it and they want to continue supporting it. And that's
where I think we have to really encourage people to start.
Just it doesn't have to be polished, it doesn't have
to be perfection. Just meet people where are they at.
(35:38):
They want realness.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
Yeah, that's it, And it's so easy. Like what you
were saying on social media now, like go build your
brand like put yourself out there and your team out there.
And I think I've seen a lot of like women's
teams like I don't know, like you do funny little
skits or you just do questions of the day and
like it's players and it's real content, and it gives
you an opportunity to kind of connect with them and
that stuff like we've been trying to do with our
team a lot. See like other teams in our league
(36:01):
do it, and it is like it can work pretty well,
and I think it's just important that everybody gets out there.
And it also kind of changes the narrative a little bit,
Like the more that you see female athletes and women's
sports like on your own feet are just kind of
like sharing the media space. It's just it's more of
an equal opportunity, I guess, to like expose yourself than
(36:25):
some of your you know, mainstream media like channels and
stuff where you don't have the same access to get
in there. Like you were saying, until you get picked,
that's so true.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
Well, before we tie a bow on everything, I want
to do a rapid fire little question for you. Okay,
I've got a few, no stress though, Okay, what was
your favorite NFL player growing up.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
I really liked JJ Watt.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
Oh, come on, he's the best.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
Yeah, he's really cool.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
Who is your favorite athlete growing up that you love
to watch.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
I really liked Abby wand back. I think there was
just one time she like split her head up and
then just stabled it right on the sideline, and that
was like really she was She was really cool to me.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
I So now we're going to stop this rapid fire
because I was there for that game, and I need
to just tell you this story because she is the
most iconic person I've ever met in my life. Also,
that moment was probably one of my scariest moments. So
we were at qualifying for the World Cup in Mexico,
playing against Mexico. We weren't winning. If we did not
(37:33):
win this game, we had to go into a wild
card to make sure we got ourselves into the World Cup.
And she got nailed and split her head so bad.
But it kept bleeding and it kept bleeding and you
can't have blood on the field, and she refused to
come off the field, so she ran over to the sideline.
(37:56):
I was like on the sideline and she was like
looked at our and she was like, staple it. And
I was like, everyone was like, oh my god. It
was literally it was it's slow mow in my head
and it's like a movie reel and I see him
like pull this thing out and he's just like douche,
douche stapling her head on the sideline. Who and she's
(38:20):
like wrap it.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
Now.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
There was a lot more cuss words enough, but she
had them wrap it, and she like ran back on
the field. And when I tell you, she was still
heading the ball with staples in her head, so let
that sink in. But after the game she had to go,
you know, because we're we're in some random remote location
(38:43):
in Mexico at the time. The doctor had to remove
the staples to stitch it correctly because it was on
her face. I'm like, you are not real, Abby, You're
not real. If that was a man playing in this world, please,
he'd be on the floor and we would have the stretcher.
(39:04):
We would be like medical Like. She ran over to
the hut literally told the doctor staple it.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
I was not so insane.
Speaker 1 (39:13):
You were the most iconic person I've ever met in
my life. And you go, girl, because WHOA not enough
people talk about that, but she could have things popping
through her body broken, and she's still out there somehow
running with one leg. I mean, I kid you not.
What's your favorite football memory?
Speaker 2 (39:31):
M I think the very first year we got to
play in like high school stadium for our championship, and
it was like my first experience being underneath the lights,
and like it just felt epic, like being on the
turf field. And then my dad was actually coaching the
opposite team, which was really funny, and so I saw
him move this player that's usually in one position to
(39:54):
like a receiver position, and I was like, oh, he
is throwing the ball to her. And so then I
go and mark and I the ball and then like
the end of the game, and it was a good
game and I beat him, and so that was really cool,
and it was just like being under the stadium lights,
which I'd never been able to do before, was really exciting.
Speaker 1 (40:11):
Love that. What a great story. What's one woman in
sports that everyone should know that you think people don't
know enough of?
Speaker 2 (40:20):
Well, I think a lot of Mayor has been my
I mean, but she's getting a lot of the attention
right now, so I'm like trying to think of somebody
a little more niche. But I remember like finding her
and thinking that she was just like the coolest person ever.
And I mean a lot of what we already kind
of talked about, but that that body image thing and
seeing her go on like Sports Illustrated and doing these
kind of shoots that it's like showing that off and
(40:42):
you're the Victoria Secret Model. Like I think it's just
such a different type of athlete or like then we've
been exposed to in the media, like usually that's just
not what we've been pushed to see. And so I
think that's just one that I love to highlight.
Speaker 1 (40:55):
She is incredible. What's something you've been brave enough to
say too.
Speaker 2 (41:02):
I think, well, my last season of college soccer, I
didn't actually play, and a lot of that was so
that I could want to focus on going doing the
l SAD and setting for law school stuff, but also
so I could jump back into playing tackle football, and
so I got to play tackle football that season instead.
(41:22):
And so that was I guess, not really me saying no,
but being able to kind of step back from something
that I had been doing my entire life, and it
kind of, you know, I found all of my greatest
friends on that team and still loved playing, but just
kind of being able to recognize when something isn't for
me anymore, or like I need to prioritize other things.
(41:43):
But that was kind of a big step and took
a lot of conversations, but I think it was a
good transition. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:51):
Absolutely, What's one lesson sports gave you that life couldn't.
Speaker 2 (41:55):
I think just discipline generally, And I think my biggest
thing that I tell people is the way that you're
able to see the work you put in pay off.
Like I run for I do my wind sprints and
suddenly I'm faster, or like I do these soccer drills
and now I have a better touch on the ball.
Like you can see the work you put in translate
(42:16):
so well to like your performance. And I think that's
encouraged me in school and everywhere else to be like,
if I put the work in, it's going to pay off,
and also recognizing that if you don't put the work in,
you're going to remain at the same spot. And so
really that lesson of like effort and discipline is how
you are going to succeed in life. And I think
(42:37):
it's really hard to get that without sports or I
think any other hobby like where you have to train,
but it's really important to have that and recognize it
before you move into your profession or other places where
you still have to put that same effort and discipline
in but it's less tangible. So good.
Speaker 1 (42:55):
Yeah, absolutely, And the last question I want to ask,
as such a young phenom that you were very early,
what's one word your younger self needed to hear.
Speaker 2 (43:10):
The word that comes to mind is community, which I
think I had within my family a lot and like
my support system, but I wish I recognized even more
the way that women's sports can give back to each
other and the way that you can find community within
your sport. And I think just like really prioritizing that
like that we can all really lift each other up
(43:31):
by just like being a fan of each other or
like finding other athletes who have experienced similar things. Like
I think the community here can be so strong, and
I wish I was able to tap into that earlier.
Speaker 1 (43:43):
It's really really powerful and it's so true. Well, Sam,
thank you so much for being on. Thank you for
your vulnerability, your honesty, but most importantly it's your activism
and paving possibility for a lot of young women. So
I'm grateful for the work you've already put in at
(44:04):
such an early age. And you're right, it doesn't stop here.
We have to protect Title nine, we have to protect
opportunities for safe spaces for people to play. And look
what it's given us both over the years. I really
really believe that growing up in a locker room prepares
(44:26):
you for life, and those lessons are invaluable. So I
appreciate you being on. I appreciate you using your voice
for good and if you ever need anything, you know
I'm always in your corner.
Speaker 2 (44:38):
Sounds great.
Speaker 1 (44:38):
Thank you for having me, of course. Thanks Sam. All Right, everyone,
well that's our episode and we'll see you next week
on Wide Open. Long before conversations around girls in football
became mainstream, Sam Gordon was actually living it. She wasn't
asking permission, She simply showed up and played. What stayed
(44:59):
with me most about this conversation isn't that Sam played football.
It's that she never waited for someone else to decide
she belonged. That's a lesson that extends way beyond sports.
Whether we're walking into a boardroom, a locker room, a
classroom or simply trying to become the fullest version of yourself.
(45:21):
There will always be voices telling you where your limits are.
Sam reminds us that sometimes the most powerful thing you
can do is keep showing up anyway. Sam, thank you
for sharing your story and for continuing to make space
for the next generation of young girls. And thank you
to everyone listening. If this conversation resonates with you, share
(45:42):
it with someone who needs a reminder that they don't
have to fit someone else's idea of what is possible.
Until next time. This is wide open and I'm Ashlyn Harris.
Speaker 2 (46:01):
Four
Host
Ashlyn Harris
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