August 24, 2026 • 46 mins
This week on Wide Open, Ashlyn sits down with Olympic hockey player Jackie Pierri to talk about identity, resilience, and life beyond the rink. Jackie opens up about growing up in Montclair, playing boys hockey, building a career across North America and Europe, and using her platform to push for better conditions in women’s sports and for climate-conscious change.
They also talk about the emotional weight of honoring her late father, the burnout of fighting for basics in sport, and how her values have shaped both her engineering career and her athletic journey
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Listen
Watch
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi everyone, and welcome back to Wide Open.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
I'm Ashlyn Harris, and today we have someone whose story
honestly sits in the intersection of so many things I
care deeply about, sport, identity, resilience, purpose, and using your
platform for something bigger than yourself.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
I am delighted to introduce.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Jackie Pieri, who is an Olympic hockey player representing Italy.
But her story doesn't just start from that. She grew
up down the street where I live currently in Montclair,
New Jersey. She played on a boys' high school varsity
team before a women's hockey team before she had the
visibility she deserved and eventually even became a captain her
(00:44):
senior year. Since then, she's played professionally in Canada, Sweden,
and Italy. Some of the biggest stages she's competed on
in the world. I mean literally, she checks every box.
She has been one of the leading voices pushing hawks
to a different type of change, which is climate change.
(01:04):
She's someone who is experienced incredible personal loss who carries
it so beautifully. Instead of letting that define her, she
turned it into her purpose. She's turned it into her advocacy,
fundraising and honoring the people who shaped her everyday experience,
and it has been such a pleasure for me to
(01:27):
watch from afar. This conversation really isn't just about hockey.
It's about what happens when your passion collides with your
values and how you keep choosing the hard road because
it's the right one. So let's get into it. Welcome
to Wide Open.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
This is Jackie.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Hi everyone, and welcome back to another episode of Wide Open.
I'm your host, Ashlyn Harris, and today we have a
very special guest, Jackie Pieri.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
Thanks thanks for having me so.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
So excited to dive into all things.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
As you know, this show is called wide Open because
it's it's more about who you are outside of what
you do, and being open and honest and being able
to follow your career and see how much you advocate
for the values you believe in. I think is such
a beautiful thing. And I know most people might know,
(02:31):
but not all of your fans and all of you know,
you know, North America knows exactly who you are. So
I wanted to shine a light on what you've been
doing where you come from. I think your story is
absolutely incredible. I actually live in Montclair, New Jersey, so
(02:53):
hearing that's kind.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Of where you know, you went to high school. Is
it where you were raised?
Speaker 3 (03:01):
Yeah, it's where I grew up until college. Basically, Oh
my god, what.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
A crazy small world and Montclair is so tiny. But
what I heard is your dad used to make every
winter and ice skating rink in the backyard.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
That's right.
Speaker 4 (03:19):
Yeah, so we actually started we went through Montclair public
schools growing up, Okay, and we started playing hockey because
my brother went on a field trip to the ice
rink in Montclair Claire Anderson. Yeah, and then we all
kind of started at the same time. So I was six,
my brother was eight, My dad was I don't know,
in his forties, and he started playing at the same
time as us. And yeah, like, you know, the climate
(03:40):
in Montclair, like it it's not really cold enough ever
to have an ice drink, and he used to spend
so much time like building the wood border and putting
down the tarp and doing the layers of water so
it freeze in time and it would last for like.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
I don't know, two skates.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
That is so so you just fell in love with
it because you know, so how many siblings do you have.
Speaker 4 (04:03):
I have one older brother, and like most women who
played professionally, I grew up like a big tomboy. Yeah,
and I was really competitive with my brother all the
way through. And yeah, my parents tried to put me
in figure skating for a little bit, but that lasted
not very long.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Well, it's really interesting and I love to ask this question.
So very similarly, I have an older brother, and I
always love to ask because I just wanted to be
just like my brother. I played on every single one
of his teams.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
I as well.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
I like I grew up playing on the boys team,
practiced and played with the boys, high school team, played
club soccer with the boys team. But I had to
be good enough to be able to like play with
my brother and get picked. Like I knew I needed
to be an asset, otherwise he would be like, go
play somewhere else, Like you're you're not going to hang
(04:55):
with us if you can't hang. And what I loved
so much, I think what built me into such a
resilient athlete that carried throughout my career was my dad
never treated me and my brother differently. And I'm curious
if you felt the same way. Because I talk about
this often with Billy Jean King, who agrees, like she
(05:17):
had an older brother who was an incredible baseball player,
and she was like, my dad just never treated us differently.
And I think the confidence that instilled in me as
a young little girl that felt like they could accomplish
anything and be comfortable in any space is invaluable. So
I'm curious, like, what was that like for you growing
(05:40):
up here? Most people probably don't know this, but Jackie,
you played on your high school ice hockey team with
the boys, and then your senior year became a captain.
Speaker 4 (05:51):
Like what, Yeah, Thankfully I had a really similar experience
with my dad.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
He definitely.
Speaker 4 (06:00):
Didn't, like, you know, overly take my side when my
brother was beating up on me, and my brother and
I would go at it like a lot. We're basically
like two little brothers, I think for most of my life.
And yeah, I think like you were saying, like you
have to keep up, Like I think, if anything, I
overcompensated because we play a really violent sport, which I
love about hockey, So like, I definitely made it a
(06:23):
point in high school, especially when the size gap started
to be pretty big to be one of the more
physical players, and I really enjoyed that.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
Part of the sport. And I don't know if you
guys have this in soccer too, but for us, the
rules are really different between men's and women's hockey.
Speaker 4 (06:39):
So when I transitioned to college hockey, I really struggled.
I got a lot of penalty in my first two
years in college.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
I had a really I can relate, and I love
that we're having this conversation because I do think it's
important for people to understand how like your journey impacts
and influences the way you show up.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
I was raised in a boy's locker room.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
I played boys baseball, basketball, soccer, and then when I
switched over about when I was sa same thing, probably
when I was sixteen. You know, it was easier for
me because I was a goalkeeper, so like physical ability
was never an issue, Like I didn't have to like
run fast, like I just had to be smarter and
(07:27):
think two steps, you know, ahead of the game. My
biggest issue came with the bluntness. Like I could tell
you know, one of my teammates on my boys team
just directly what I needed in the moment, and didn't
feel like I had to deliver it and in some
type of way that was easy, easy to be digested,
(07:49):
or like there was no confrontation. It was like quick, precise,
to the point, let's let's win this. And the way
we spoke to each other was just very blunt and direct.
When I went to the women's locker room when I
turned fifteen, and I was just very direct of what
I needed told, like the response was, ah, how dare
(08:12):
you speak.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
To me that way?
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Like people just would shut down. It was really really
hard for me. I'm curious if you experienced anything similar
in that.
Speaker 4 (08:23):
Definitely, I would say, though maybe the difference between the
boy's locker room and the women's locker room wasn't as
extreme in hockey because you already are kind of filtered
for people with kind of aggressive personalities. Maybe, like I
definitely think things drag out longer in the women's side
(08:45):
on average, and like, obviously we're working with stereotypes, but
like I remember, with the boys, you could like get
in someone's face, like some of the guys could basically
like have a fistfight and be buddies again the next day, yep.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
Whereas like conflicts.
Speaker 4 (08:56):
In the girl's locker room tended to stretch out, like
take a lot longer to resolve, and and tended to
involve more people also as they were resolved, like you
were saying like mean girl in and out girl like
stuff like that, whereas the boys, like it was very
rare for the team to like take sides of a conflict.
It was just like, all right, they're having it out,
like sorted out. Yeah, it's so true. The feedback thing
(09:22):
on the ice was like very interesting in a transition. So,
my first like real girl's locker room was in college,
which was.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
Like quite great.
Speaker 4 (09:33):
It was really quite late, and like the girls on
my college team were awesome, super fun, still like lifelong
friends with a lot of them, which I'm really lucky about.
But there was definitely like a transition period. Also, you're
just like, that's also the first time in college locker
room you're meeting people from other environments, you know, like
growing up in Montclair.
Speaker 3 (09:50):
It's it's a pretty unique place Montclair. People have different.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
Backgrounds to some extent, but also like a pretty shared
political spectrum.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Yeah, yes, like in college you're getting people from.
Speaker 4 (10:03):
All walks alf rural Canada. We have very different political perspectives.
And very different life experience, so it's hard to tell,
like what was that and what was it being all girls?
Speaker 3 (10:13):
But so true transition for sure.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
I think sometimes we don't realize how much our hometown
lives inside us until we leave it. Like you know
what I mean, It's so true because I couldn't I
couldn't agree more. Do you feel like your upbringing and
like a small Jersey town shaped kind of the woman
you eventually became like on the ice or in your activism?
Speaker 1 (10:40):
Like what was it like?
Speaker 2 (10:42):
Do you feel like Jersey still shows up every day
inside you?
Speaker 1 (10:46):
Because you do.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
You've lived all over the place, You've traveled all over
the place. You've played in multiple professional leagues, which you
know all of us have done if we're in women's
sports at some point. Yeah, I'm curious, like what is
it like now living in Italy and you know, being
born and raised?
Speaker 1 (11:07):
Were you born here or just raised here?
Speaker 4 (11:10):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (11:10):
I was born and raised in mont Okay, Okay.
Speaker 4 (11:12):
Yeah, It's a really cool question for me because I've
lived out of New Jersey now since I was eighteen
years old. So like I think for a long time,
you know, like moving to Canada, I didn't.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
Feel like it was culturally that different. It's been five
years in Calgary.
Speaker 4 (11:28):
But then in retrospect and reflection, there were some cultural
differences that I could only see after the fact, And
there were some things that maybe were like a little
bit weird or a little bit different about me that
I just thought were individual. But now I can see,
like when I go back to Jersey after so long away,
how at home I feel with some of the things
that you were aready talking about, like the confrontation style.
(11:48):
I remember when I moved to Canada, I had to
slow down how fast I spoke and I got called
out a lot for interrupting. But then when I go
back to New Jersey and I think about it, I'm like,
you can't get a word in if you know, interrupt you.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
If you don't get in there, you're you're falling behind exactly.
Speaker 4 (12:04):
And then like so I lived in Spain for a
year and then Sweden for two years, very very different
cultures both of those places. I mean Spain, I've lived
in Barcelona, Like it's so much fun there. It was
like overload for my very I don't know, high achieving
New Jersey attitude because everyone is just like what do
(12:26):
you mean, we're just gonna go to the beach.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
We don't need a plan, you know. Like I remember
when I first got there.
Speaker 4 (12:32):
I we had like plans to go to a bar,
and the group was like, Okay, see you there at nine,
and I'm like, you know, okay, I'll be there at nine,
like no problem. I was like sitting in that piazza
for like forty five minutes waiting for everyone to show up.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
Because in.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
No times is like I like to say, it's like
island time, but they're not on an island.
Speaker 4 (12:52):
They're just on their own time. Yeah, And then Italy
is really different. Also, like I live in a really
small town now in the mountains. It's a small place
I've ever lived. I'm like an hour and a half
from a medium sized airport, about three hours from a
major airport.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
And like growing up in New Jersey, you have what
four or five huge you.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
Can fly anywhere in the world anywhere basically, and I
never really appreciated how valuable that is when you want
to go travel and see the world.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
So now like if I want to go somewhere.
Speaker 4 (13:22):
I really have to be committed because it's like three
four hours of travel before I even get to the
airport and then probably a connecting flight, which is like
just a very different experience for how connected you are
to the rest of the world. Obviously with the Internet
is different, but still for like getting physically somewhere, it's
really different.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
It's so different and all of these experience, Like how
has it shaped your perspective? Because now I imagine you said,
you've been in Italy for the last how many years,
five or six, five or six years, you're watching firsthand
how massive women's sports are getting here in the US,
(13:57):
especially the PWHL. How has that been for you, Like
how you know, as someone who's helped really shape this culture,
in this huge movement going on in women's sports, does
it feel hard not to be a part of it
here or like, talk to me about how that feels.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
Seen it from Afar in the last few years.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
It's just absolutely exploded everywhere, at least here. I don't
know what it's like in Europe, but I'm curious to
see your perspective on it, as you know you're living it.
Speaker 4 (14:28):
I feel like really like proud, like a proud parent. Yeah,
there's a little bit of like I wish I could
be a part of it for sure, But I also
know if I weren't on this journey like to try
to get my citizenship and to play in the Olympics,
like I would have been retired.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
A long time.
Speaker 4 (14:44):
Yeah, so we actually so for the national team, for
the Italian national team. Before the Olympics, we centralized in
Montreal and we got the opportunity to go watch a
peed up game. I got to watch some of my
ex teammates Autowa versus Montreal, and like, the product on
the ice is really similar, which is really cool because
it's a lot of the same best players plus the
(15:05):
younger generation, so it's like obviously improved, but the hockey
is amazing. But it's so crazy to me to see
like little girls with like branded merchandise with the players
that I've known growing up, like to actually see them
have recognition. It's about time, Like it's so cool to see.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
It's so cool to see.
Speaker 4 (15:24):
And I see that in Europe they admire from like
my little small perspective of what I'm seeing here, like
they they value it more because they see that it's
a product that can be commodified. Now, like to see
that it's there's actual attention being brought to it, so
now they see it as legitimate, but the development here
(15:45):
is still different, like the way society in Italy views
women's sports, women and men. It's not like a misogynist
well whatever, it's not just men, and it's in society
thinking that women shouldn't partake in it.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
It's just it's still seen as kind of like odd.
Speaker 4 (16:01):
I had a really strange experience and I'm still not
sure if it was a translation error while I was
still learning Italian. It was my second or third year
we won the Italian championship, and on the ice in
the championship postgame interview, he asked me like, why did
you choose to play such a masculine sport? And I
was like, first of all, this is a really weird
time to answer that question, and like, second of all, like,
(16:24):
clearly it's not a masculine sport, Like clearly people are
you know, women are playing it and doing it well,
and it was just.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Has been for a really long time.
Speaker 4 (16:31):
Yeah, And I think that that kind of captures the
perspective here on it's still kind of an oddity, which
is unfortunate. Yeah, and absolutely there's still not a lot
a lot of young girls with the opportunity to play.
For sure. It's the same as when I was a kid,
like twenty years ago. They have to play with the
boys and you have to have a certain personality for
that to work, you know, And so you miss out
(16:52):
on a lot of girls who could fall in love
with the game and who it could be great contributors
because they don't have that you know, unique personality that
they're really stubborn that they don't you know, they take
the bullying as kind of a challenge to show people
that girls can do it too.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
You know, that's not for everybody, So stay tuned.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
I'll be back in just a moment after this brief
message from our sponsors. It's so true, and like what
I think most people don't understand is how much we
have to build our own brands, how much women athletes
(17:31):
have to build themselves and have different avenues and outlets
and means, because like we're not used to making a
bunch of money.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
We do this because we love it.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
So our values really really show up in the sports
we love, which we've seen with you, you advocate fiercely
for so many different things. Like everything that you've done,
you're clearly a very highly educated, smart woman, and you
started to question like, okay, how much energy? What's going
(18:07):
on when we're like building these ice skating rinks, and
like how are we supporting climate change? And how are
we showing up an environmental like safety conscious way.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
When did all that start for you?
Speaker 2 (18:19):
When did that activism and that intelligence in terms of
I'm going to go after this?
Speaker 1 (18:24):
You went to Brown? And what did you study at Brown?
In engineering or mechanical engineering?
Speaker 4 (18:30):
Mcan?
Speaker 1 (18:31):
I mean, geez, girl, you checked every damn box. When
did you have time to be a normal as human?
Speaker 3 (18:38):
I didn't sleep, To be honest with me, I'm sure
you didn't.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
But what made you go after that?
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Because you know when I went to college, I went
to the University of North Carolina.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
I was like, oh my god, this is a full
time job.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
Like how the hell am I supposed to be committed
to being a champion here and giant target on my
back that we always had to be the best while
being the best version of myself in a good I
mean it was I just remember sleep being in study hall.
I mean, people literally used to make fun of me,
but I'm like, this is the only way I'm going
(19:12):
to stay above like the grades. I need to be here,
Like it was really really hard and you checked every
damn box, blew it out of the water, So I
need to know your secrets.
Speaker 4 (19:22):
No, I feel like I like surf, like I just
barely survived. No. When I think about so, like growing
up in Montclair, I feel like there is already kind
of values that we should leave the world better than
how we found it.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
And climate change was a topic we learned about in school.
Speaker 4 (19:38):
Maybe we were like kind of the earlier co cohort.
Speaker 3 (19:41):
That learned about it. So I studied.
Speaker 4 (19:43):
There was like an architecture track at Montclair High School,
which was awesome. So there was an architecture program that
I did for three years where we were able to
learn about sustainable architecture basically.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
And Brown was my dream school.
Speaker 4 (19:56):
I wanted to go IVY, I wanted to play Division
one by like kind of luck, in my opinion, I
got there. The coach saw me at a camp at
in Montclair, liked what she saw, made me an offer.
It was my dream school, so it was like obvious
early decision. There's no architecture program at Brown, and architecture
(20:17):
and Division one sports. Probably I don't know if any
I don't know if anyone that's done that. It's like
the time requirements are too crazy. So I did engineering,
focused on sustainable buildings.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
In engineering, but.
Speaker 4 (20:28):
Like at Brown, it was crazy because it's it's two
full time jobs. The worst curriculum for engineering is very
time intensive, plus the homework. It was really challenging that
I was always missing, like the collaborative study sessions, you know,
because everyone, all the real Brown students as we used
to call them, were like studying while I was at practice.
And you know, we're away on the weekends, we're traveling
(20:51):
all the time. Plus you know, you're like trying to
be a part of the team. So it was just
it was chaotic, I have to say. But what was
even crazier, like when I look back at college, I'm.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
Like, how the heck did I do that? I have
no idea.
Speaker 4 (21:01):
Thankfully, I had another girl on my team who did engineering,
so me and my roommate Dance Wits, we were able
to kind of like, you know, survive it together. But
my whole team actually at Brown was really academically ambitious,
so hanging outs were happening at the library. I did
also sleep at the library quite a few times, lots
of all nighters. But what's even crazier when I think
about the PDUB now and the SEEDUB. When I first
(21:22):
started my first year in the SEATUB, so it was
like a year after I graduated from Brown, I had.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
To get a full time job.
Speaker 4 (21:28):
There was zero, oh yeah, zero payment for the SEEDUB,
even though we were playing like with the Canadian Olympians,
like the best players in the world. There was. It
was a league that we had to fund ourselves. And
I also needed a visa to be in Canada, so
I needed to work visa.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
So I surely had to pay that.
Speaker 4 (21:43):
Yeah, So I started my engineering career basically, and I
was working full time forty hours a week. And then
that first season, we were playing three game weekends, so
we were flying to Toronto to Montreal whatever, playing Friday, Saturday, Sunday,
which like you cannot perform well playing three games in
a row plus travel, and a lot of times we
were driving Monday morning, like from an overnight flight and
(22:03):
I was going straight to my desk, which was like insane.
Like I look back at that, I'm like, that makes
me tired just to think about it. And I remember
thinking too, it's just like kind of how you were saying,
like how can you be a champion when you're in
those in that context, Like, I just remember feeling like
I wasn't doing anything well enough. You know, I'm tired
all the time on the ice. I felt tired at
my desk. It was enough, like I managed somehow. But
(22:27):
like you know, now now that I get to be
a full time athlete the last you know, seven years,
basically I can see how important, like what an advantage
to be able to sleep enough, Like it's such a
small thing, but like I can perform so much better
just you know, being able to stretch when my body hurts,
you know, crazy things like that, take care of it. Yeah,
I remember in the seat up. I have this really
distinct memory. We were coming back. It was an overnight flight.
(22:49):
I was supposed to be at my desk and you know,
like the Canadian Olympians, thankfully, like the Canadians are really
well funded by their government. It's still not equal and
they're still like room to grow and everything like that.
But at that time, I remember I had an Olympic
teammate who was on the flight with me, and she
meant nothing by this.
Speaker 3 (23:06):
It was you know, not malintention at all, but she was.
Speaker 4 (23:08):
Like our flight was delayed and she was like, oh,
I'm going to miss my massage appointment.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
And I was like, I have a meeting, like.
Speaker 4 (23:15):
An actual work meeting that I'm going to miss, Like
I wish I was missing my massage place.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
I know, right, it's so true because like I think
people need to hear more of these stories, because it's
like it was so for the love of the game,
Like so many of us had phenomenal education we had,
you know, we could be out in the workforce, really changing,
like you said, leaving this place better than we found it,
(23:43):
really building a future for this next generation and our children.
It's like, but we love it so much, but I'm
curious if that love ever turn. I say this because
I carried it to resentment. I think for me at
the end of my career. You know, I was a
part of the equal pay lawsuit. I mean I just
felt like we had to fight. Like all I felt
(24:05):
like I did. I mean, I was sick of myself.
All I felt like I did was complain, fight, hold
you know, the internal infrastructure accountable with more lock thereof
It just was so exhausting, did it ever the love
of the game ever turn into resentment for you?
Speaker 1 (24:27):
Did it ever creep in?
Speaker 3 (24:28):
Absolutely? I think on multiple occasions.
Speaker 4 (24:31):
You know, like it's never just the sport, right, There's
always other things coming in. I know in college there
were some you know, team culture things that were really
hard to work through, so we were like also as
a team kind of fighting for equality. But I would
say even more recently, you know, being over over in Europe,
(24:55):
you're really like fighting for the bare minimum and to
come from like you know, the Seeda was a fight
the whole time, like for sure, and we made a
lot of progress and the reward is seeing the peed
up now, right, But I've spent five years playing for
a local club here in Botsano, and I don't feel
(25:15):
like we've made progress at all. And I'm hoping that
there will be like a wave with the Olympics, because
there was a lot of publicity and there are a
lot of really great Italian born players that are like
really amazing role models for the next generation coming up.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
But it's the leagues in Europe still, in.
Speaker 4 (25:38):
My opinion, are not moving in the right direction for
developing non North American talent. So yeah, I would say
you know, like growing up, we're on the ice almost
every day. You need to be on the ice to
be getting better. We're on the ice two days a
week here. For example, when I first moved here, we
didn't have a gym. You know, you have to train
(26:00):
if you want to be a professional. So I like
fought to get us in the gym, and now now
the girls are training. But it was and you know,
I was the strength and conditioning coach. Like I do
not have that expertise at all. I was the strength
and conditioning coach for like two years. I'm like, I mean,
I'm going to take my programs that previous coaches have
(26:21):
given to me, and I'm gonna try to like I
know how to do the exercises, but like this is
not my forte at all.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
Stay tuned.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
I'll be back in just a moment after this brief
message from our sponsors.
Speaker 4 (26:35):
Yeah, I mean for sure, like post Olympics, I am
feeling major burnout. I don't know if you had this
with your career. Yeah, the last six years have been
absolutely crazy stressful. I actually got my passport about six
weeks before the Olympics, about four weeks between before the
team was selected. There were just like bureaucratic hurdle after
(26:57):
bureaucratic hurdle.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
Oh, I imagine, And.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
It was really really really hard.
Speaker 4 (27:02):
So yeah, like my dad was born in Italy, but
he became American when he like he grew up in America.
He got a citizenship when he passed away. It counts
as like breaking the bloodline. So I had to do
this whole extra process.
Speaker 3 (27:17):
I had to do a.
Speaker 4 (27:18):
Language exam, which is no problem. It was really hard,
but it makes sense.
Speaker 3 (27:22):
I think.
Speaker 4 (27:23):
I had to do like background texs and you know,
all sorts of tax things, and then there was an
error in you know, like one piece of paper, so
I had to add it whole a year and a
half of the time I was supposed to be in Italy.
Then the law changed for a six month window where
the period that I was supposed to be in Italy
went from three years to two years.
Speaker 3 (27:45):
I was able to get my citizenship in that period.
Speaker 4 (27:48):
And then after I was granted my citizenship, there were
like six more steps and it was really like I
really didn't know. I really didn't know till the end.
For the last like year and a half. Part of
the Olympics, I thought it was ninety percent probability I
was not going to get my citizenship in time. And
it was just like massive burnout for just trying to
like love the game and just trying to like enjoy
(28:09):
twelve hour bus rides when you have this goal in
mind and you're not sure if it's going to work out,
and you want to be able to say you left
it all out there and you want to say you
did everything you could that was in your control.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
But it was exhausting.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
It was exhausting, I know.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
But what do you hope the younger generation never has
to experience that our generation had to, Like what are you?
Speaker 1 (28:33):
What do you hope for them? That's a great question,
because that's like.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
The reason why we do what we do, you know,
like we could be doing a million other things, but
we show up, We choose the grind, We understand the implications,
we understand the lack of investment and resources, and we
wake up and we choose it.
Speaker 4 (28:56):
Anyways, I think the biggest thing that comes to mind
for me is just not being told they don't belong,
making it like so obvious that there are role models
out there of who they could be, that like no
one can really say girls don't play hockey, because clearly
they do. And in North America, they're making lots of
money to do it. Yes, not as much as they
should be, but right now they're, like, you know, making
(29:17):
real salaries, they're making real careers. No one can really
say we don't belong because how many times did we
hear that when we were growing up?
Speaker 1 (29:23):
Oh my gosh. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
No, it's like, you know, and I think that resilience
that you know, you always hear the statistic about ninety
four percent of women in C suite positions played youth sports, right,
But I think it's it's a reflection on what these
young girls had to go through at such an early age.
And talk about belonging, talk about feeling enough, talking about
(29:49):
choosing yourself over and over, talk about understanding body issues
and all of these things, right, they all go hand
in hand. And for me, I think that's why I
advocate so much for young girls in sports, because.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
It really really does teach you.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
A lot about yourself and trusting yourself and trusting your
body and understanding the power you carry. I wish I
could give that gift to everyone, But I think what
has impressed me the most is really about your advocacy
because it's not performative. I think sometimes people because you know,
(30:28):
as a women's athlete, you have to have values and
purpose beyond the game. Otherwise it'll drive you into the
ground because it's mental. You'll bang your head against the
wall and be like why the fuck am I doing this?
Because you start to question everything because you understand the
system wasn't built for us, right and we've had to
pave the way over and over and over again, and
(30:49):
even when it's crushed us or failed leagues or having
to pick up and go play in you know, all
different countries just to be seen. I mean it's exhausting,
you know, and we continued to choose it. You know,
how are you continuing to like hold true to your
(31:11):
values and you know, your activism while you're over there?
Like are you working still there in climate change outside
of sport or is it now normalized to be a
full time job?
Speaker 3 (31:28):
I am.
Speaker 4 (31:28):
I left my job about a year and a half
before the Olympics just to be all in.
Speaker 3 (31:32):
But I was working for a green building company called Living.
Speaker 4 (31:35):
Future, the European subsidiary, and it's a really cool organization.
They do green building certification. They don't use the term
green building. They use regenerative building because the buildings are
just like completely self sustaining. They're water positive, energy positive,
(31:56):
no toxic chemicals at all. In the builds for homes,
they're including regenerative agriculture. They're just doing like above and
beyond of all of the building standards, and it's really
holistic and really cool in terms of like bringing the
values to sport. I don't think I ever set out
to be an advocate of anything. I have never felt like,
(32:18):
you know, the double edged side of like always having
to fight for legitimacy is I never I was like
always a little ahead of the leagues, having really big
public awareness. So it was never top of mind for
me that I was getting the word out like when
you reached when your producer reached out to me on Instagram,
(32:40):
I literally was like, I think you have the wrong person,
you know, Like I think it was more just I'm
really opinionated, I'm really stubborn, and when I see something wrong,
I have like I can't sleep at night until I
say something. And thankfully I've been in environments where I've
been able.
Speaker 3 (32:59):
To do so. Eco athletes is a really cool organization.
Speaker 4 (33:02):
I kind of stumbled into them, and that's been a
really cool nexus of a lot of the things that
I care about and a really cool place to meet
other athletes who care about climate change. And through through them,
I've gotten a lot of opportunities to speak out about
climate change and sport and specifically, and it's one of
those things I never thought that the two would ever meet.
(33:22):
I never thought that the two paths wouldever collide in
the way they did. And my master's studies were in
sustainable energy and I ended up doing my thesis on
ice rinks and particularly on like a more sustainable refrigerant
that can cool ice rinks more with less climate impact.
Speaker 3 (33:43):
And when that opportunity came up, I was kind.
Speaker 4 (33:46):
Of like, that's too good of a mix to not take.
And then that opened a lot of doors and then
that being highlighted at the Olympics was really really huge. Yeah,
It's something I didn't expect because for me, the story
of the Olympics was about, you know, honoring my dad's memory,
and you know, it was much it was kind of
like secondary my climate stuff. So I'm just like thrilled
(34:06):
that that's had such an impact and been, you know,
something people have talked about.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
Of course, because right now, as I mean, if you're
watching the WNBA or you're following anything on social media,
these athletes have influence now that.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
Are so big, more than they ever have been.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
Whether you agree with it or not, I'm not going
to say I agree with a lot of a lot
of things that are coming out in the last two
weeks in the WNBA. It makes me want to pull
my air out. You know, there's a lot of things
I don't agree on, and my values like I stand
behind them, especially when it comes to advocating for everyone,
(34:50):
not just a certain group of people. Do you think
athletes have a responsibility to speak about issues beyond sports,
because I feel like.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
We're in a really unique place right now.
Speaker 4 (35:04):
Yeah. It's tough, right because I don't ever feel like
people should be pressured or asked questions about topics that
they're not passionate about.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Or educated about.
Speaker 4 (35:15):
Especially Yeah, but I think, you know, we're role models
for a reason, and I think it is a platform
that can be used for good. I think about all
of the athletes in history that have made such an
impact on civil rights, on women's rights, on equal pay,
(35:35):
you guys are a huge part of that. Like, there's
just so many things that athletes have been so impactful
about and you know.
Speaker 3 (35:42):
Blessing or a curse. I don't know for sure.
Speaker 4 (35:44):
There have been athletes that have you know, said the
wrong things and advocate for things I don't agree with
as well, But I think like a platform is a privilege,
and yeah, as long as people are.
Speaker 3 (35:55):
Listening, we should keep talking about the things we care about.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
Well, I think also because you've brought up your dad,
you know, a few times, and some of the most
meaningful things we build are from the people we've lost.
And you are such a big advocate when it comes
to talking about really hard topics and topics that carry
a lot of grief. And you started is it called
(36:21):
keep the Beat fundraiser a game to honor your father
and your cousin correct, who both passed and I know
you were it was at fifty five number fifty five
in the Olympics to honor him. How was that walking
into the tournament, being able to carry so much excitement
(36:44):
for the opportunity but also the grief that you were carrying, Like,
what was that like for you?
Speaker 1 (36:50):
Holding space for kind of both.
Speaker 3 (36:54):
Yeah, I think.
Speaker 4 (36:56):
The Olympics were such a rush of emotions. I still
have really been able to put towards what that experience
was like for me. I feel like my dad was
with me in getting my citizenship in time and getting
the opportunity to be there, and I think it was
such an honor.
Speaker 3 (37:19):
Something I really didn't expect.
Speaker 4 (37:20):
Let's see if I can express this, something I really
didn't expect because we've had so much grief in my family,
because we've been through some really, really hard things together.
It was such a joy and a privilege to bring
something happy to my family. And I think when I
set out on this journey and I told my family
about it, they were with me through the uncertainty of
(37:43):
not knowing if I was going to get there or not.
And I had never really imagined what it would be like.
To see how happy they would be to see me
on the ice and to share that experience together was
really something spectacular. My brother flew out, my mom was there,
my cousin, my aunts like, it was really an incredible thing.
(38:06):
My dad's one of my dad's really good friends, and
his business partner didn't say anything. It just flew out
and a childhood friend saw him in the stands and
that's how we knew that he was there at the games.
And like we're talking like fully grown men tearing up
about a sport, Like I'm just you know, I'm a
hockey player, Like I'm not like a brain surgeon. Like
it was just such a special experience, Like it was
(38:28):
really it was really I can't really express what it was.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
Yeah it was.
Speaker 2 (38:34):
And I imagine but because of the loss and the
grief and holding space, has your definition of success change
since losing him, because I imagine it gave you a
lot of perspective. But I don't want to put words
in your mouth.
Speaker 3 (38:50):
Yeah, I would actually say so.
Speaker 4 (38:52):
The full story of my dad is he had his
first heart attack playing hockey when I was eleven, and
he was like pretty close to dying during that first
heart attack. And obviously I was a kid, I didn't
really understand what was going on he was in the hospital.
I thought he was on a business trip like whole thing.
But I think it changed his perspective on parenting. And
I don't know, Like, obviously I can't talk to him
(39:14):
now about it, but I would say, like the majority
of my values come from my dad, and my dad
was very big on non materialism, on generosity, on kindness
to everyone that you meet, no matter their status, so.
Speaker 3 (39:31):
That perspective of success.
Speaker 4 (39:32):
I feel like before his passing he had already really
transmitted that to me. He was big on, like, you
can't take money with you when you die, because he
had had that like near death experience.
Speaker 3 (39:45):
And yeah, there.
Speaker 4 (39:48):
Was just hockey after he passed was challenging because it
was something that we really had together, meet him and
my brother, and like, my best memories of my childhood
with him are like reflecting on wins and losses in
the car rides, like every like you know, athlete has
experienced with their parents probably or often, you know, whether
(40:11):
it's the it wasn't as bad as you.
Speaker 3 (40:13):
Thought, or you should have skated a little harder, you know. Yeah, And.
Speaker 4 (40:18):
To not have him through the inevitable challenges that came
up in hockey after, you know, not getting a long
with coaches, not getting a lot with teammates, things not
going as I hoped, not being able to call him.
Speaker 3 (40:29):
Was really hard.
Speaker 4 (40:30):
Yeah, And I don't know, to reach the pinnacle of
our sport in his honor was really really special for me.
Speaker 2 (40:38):
I imagine that was very magical, and I imagine he
was there with you regardless. But I know we're wrapping up,
and I usually always, you know, my conversations, I'm so
conditioned sometimes to ask people what they're working on next.
I want to give other people a platform, but instead
I want to ask, actually, like how you're doing, what's
(41:01):
bringing you joy, what's bringing you peace? How are you
holding it all together there and feeling very far from
what you feel as like normal and your chosen family?
I imagine there is great, but your family is here.
So I guess for a wide open conversation, I just
wanted to check in and see, like, how you're doing,
(41:23):
are you are you at peace? Are you still grieving?
Are you still figuring it out? I know we're all
a work in progress, but I always love to check in.
Speaker 3 (41:33):
Yeah, I think the grief will always be there. I think, yeah.
Speaker 4 (41:38):
I think right now what I'm processing most is like
what's next in sport? For me?
Speaker 3 (41:44):
I don't know if I'm going to continue playing or
if I'm done, and if.
Speaker 4 (41:48):
What's next is the really big uncertainty in my life now.
But I'm just trying to enjoy summer in Italy. I
just had a nice little road trip down to southern
Italy and enjoying Jilato.
Speaker 1 (42:02):
I'm dying to go, dying to go.
Speaker 2 (42:05):
Literally, Well, I have to reach out to you, and
I appreciate your vulnerability. I appreciate the way you show up.
You've lived a big life, and you deserve the platform
to continue sharing your values and the way you show
(42:26):
up and the way you advocate. I think some of
us are just gifted with the ability to connect and
move people and understand sport is really just a small
part of who we are.
Speaker 1 (42:38):
It's honestly just what we do.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
We carry so many beautiful qualities outside of it, and
I want to be able to tell those stories and
share those stories, and without question yours has always been
really meaningful and magical in the way you show up.
So I'm very grateful for the way you lead with
vulnerability and intention and clarity. So so, Jackie, thank you
(43:03):
so much for being on Wide Open.
Speaker 1 (43:05):
I wish you like the best.
Speaker 3 (43:07):
This was really cool. Yeah, I've been month there. I
gotta let you know, can you please?
Speaker 1 (43:12):
I love like I live here, like my kids are living.
Where did you go to elementary school?
Speaker 2 (43:17):
I'm not going to give it away where my kids
are going, but I'm just curious.
Speaker 3 (43:21):
I went to Rand. I don't know if Rand still exists.
It was never heard. They're high. And then I went
to Mount Hebron, which I think is buzz Aldrin. Now
okay for middle school, and then months are high.
Speaker 1 (43:32):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (43:34):
My kids are literally four and five, so I'm not
even close to that. But we're we you know, we're.
Speaker 1 (43:39):
Starting elementary school. I'm like exciting, I know.
Speaker 2 (43:43):
And I'm from like a really tiny, small beach town
called Satellite Beach. I literally went to this. It was
called Surf Side Elementary School.
Speaker 1 (43:53):
It was tiny.
Speaker 2 (43:55):
I'm like, going on these school tours, these buildings are castle.
Speaker 3 (44:00):
Yeah, Montclair School is no joke.
Speaker 1 (44:03):
I'm like, I'm stressed for my child, who's five.
Speaker 2 (44:06):
I'm like, she's gonna walk in here and be like,
the fuck are you taking me to this castle for
I'm scared.
Speaker 3 (44:12):
She's gonna do great.
Speaker 1 (44:13):
I know she's gonna be great. She's a lot more.
Speaker 2 (44:15):
She's so brave compared to me. I'm like, I would
have been shaken in my boots. But yeah, I'm excited
for these these beautiful babies to go to such a
progressive like cool. You know, this town is super artsy,
it's super inclusive of all different backgrounds, clearly progressive, like
(44:37):
it checks it like so many boxes, which is awesome.
I imagine it has shaped you know, so much of
the woman you are today, and I hope it does
the same for my kids.
Speaker 3 (44:48):
I'm sure it will.
Speaker 4 (44:49):
I feel like there's so many opportunities, like any curiosity
you have, you can chase it with some of the
best in the world because you're so close to New York.
Speaker 3 (44:56):
It's a unique, such a unique thing. It's really cool.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
Well, Jackie, good luck with everything.
Speaker 2 (45:02):
Thank you so much for coming on Wide Open, and
we'll see everyone. We'll see everyone next week on another episode.
Thank you so much, Jackie for coming on. What I
love so much about this conversation and what I love
so much about Jackie is she honestly refuses to separate
the athlete from the human. She loves hockey enough to
(45:23):
want it to be better. She honors the people she's
lost by living with intention, and she's proof that success
doesn't have to come at the expense of your values.
I hope this conversation reminds you that the things we
love aren't perfect, but they're worth fighting to improve, whether
(45:43):
that's your sport, your community, or the planet itself. If
this episode meant something to you, please share it, like it, subscribe, listen,
and leave us a review. I hope you guys have
a great week, and again, thanks for listening. We'll see
you next time on Wide Open.
Speaker 4 (46:07):
Mm hmmm mmm
Hi everyone, and welcome back to Wide Open.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
I'm Ashlyn Harris, and today we have someone whose story
honestly sits in the intersection of so many things I
care deeply about, sport, identity, resilience, purpose, and using your
platform for something bigger than yourself.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
I am delighted to introduce.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Jackie Pieri, who is an Olympic hockey player representing Italy.
But her story doesn't just start from that. She grew
up down the street where I live currently in Montclair,
New Jersey. She played on a boys' high school varsity
team before a women's hockey team before she had the
visibility she deserved and eventually even became a captain her
(00:44):
senior year. Since then, she's played professionally in Canada, Sweden,
and Italy. Some of the biggest stages she's competed on
in the world. I mean literally, she checks every box.
She has been one of the leading voices pushing hawks
to a different type of change, which is climate change.
(01:04):
She's someone who is experienced incredible personal loss who carries
it so beautifully. Instead of letting that define her, she
turned it into her purpose. She's turned it into her advocacy,
fundraising and honoring the people who shaped her everyday experience,
and it has been such a pleasure for me to
(01:27):
watch from afar. This conversation really isn't just about hockey.
It's about what happens when your passion collides with your
values and how you keep choosing the hard road because
it's the right one. So let's get into it. Welcome
to Wide Open.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
This is Jackie.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Hi everyone, and welcome back to another episode of Wide Open.
I'm your host, Ashlyn Harris, and today we have a
very special guest, Jackie Pieri.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
Thanks thanks for having me so.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
So excited to dive into all things.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
As you know, this show is called wide Open because
it's it's more about who you are outside of what
you do, and being open and honest and being able
to follow your career and see how much you advocate
for the values you believe in. I think is such
a beautiful thing. And I know most people might know,
(02:31):
but not all of your fans and all of you know,
you know, North America knows exactly who you are. So
I wanted to shine a light on what you've been
doing where you come from. I think your story is
absolutely incredible. I actually live in Montclair, New Jersey, so
(02:53):
hearing that's kind.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Of where you know, you went to high school. Is
it where you were raised?
Speaker 3 (03:01):
Yeah, it's where I grew up until college. Basically, Oh
my god, what.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
A crazy small world and Montclair is so tiny. But
what I heard is your dad used to make every
winter and ice skating rink in the backyard.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
That's right.
Speaker 4 (03:19):
Yeah, so we actually started we went through Montclair public
schools growing up, Okay, and we started playing hockey because
my brother went on a field trip to the ice
rink in Montclair Claire Anderson. Yeah, and then we all
kind of started at the same time. So I was six,
my brother was eight, My dad was I don't know,
in his forties, and he started playing at the same
time as us. And yeah, like, you know, the climate
(03:40):
in Montclair, like it it's not really cold enough ever
to have an ice drink, and he used to spend
so much time like building the wood border and putting
down the tarp and doing the layers of water so
it freeze in time and it would last for like.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
I don't know, two skates.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
That is so so you just fell in love with
it because you know, so how many siblings do you have.
Speaker 4 (04:03):
I have one older brother, and like most women who
played professionally, I grew up like a big tomboy. Yeah,
and I was really competitive with my brother all the
way through. And yeah, my parents tried to put me
in figure skating for a little bit, but that lasted
not very long.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Well, it's really interesting and I love to ask this question.
So very similarly, I have an older brother, and I
always love to ask because I just wanted to be
just like my brother. I played on every single one
of his teams.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
I as well.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
I like I grew up playing on the boys team,
practiced and played with the boys, high school team, played
club soccer with the boys team. But I had to
be good enough to be able to like play with
my brother and get picked. Like I knew I needed
to be an asset, otherwise he would be like, go
play somewhere else, Like you're you're not going to hang
(04:55):
with us if you can't hang. And what I loved
so much, I think what built me into such a
resilient athlete that carried throughout my career was my dad
never treated me and my brother differently. And I'm curious
if you felt the same way. Because I talk about
this often with Billy Jean King, who agrees, like she
(05:17):
had an older brother who was an incredible baseball player,
and she was like, my dad just never treated us differently.
And I think the confidence that instilled in me as
a young little girl that felt like they could accomplish
anything and be comfortable in any space is invaluable. So
I'm curious, like, what was that like for you growing
(05:40):
up here? Most people probably don't know this, but Jackie,
you played on your high school ice hockey team with
the boys, and then your senior year became a captain.
Speaker 4 (05:51):
Like what, Yeah, Thankfully I had a really similar experience
with my dad.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
He definitely.
Speaker 4 (06:00):
Didn't, like, you know, overly take my side when my
brother was beating up on me, and my brother and
I would go at it like a lot. We're basically
like two little brothers, I think for most of my life.
And yeah, I think like you were saying, like you
have to keep up, Like I think, if anything, I
overcompensated because we play a really violent sport, which I
love about hockey, So like, I definitely made it a
(06:23):
point in high school, especially when the size gap started
to be pretty big to be one of the more
physical players, and I really enjoyed that.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
Part of the sport. And I don't know if you
guys have this in soccer too, but for us, the
rules are really different between men's and women's hockey.
Speaker 4 (06:39):
So when I transitioned to college hockey, I really struggled.
I got a lot of penalty in my first two
years in college.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
I had a really I can relate, and I love
that we're having this conversation because I do think it's
important for people to understand how like your journey impacts
and influences the way you show up.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
I was raised in a boy's locker room.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
I played boys baseball, basketball, soccer, and then when I
switched over about when I was sa same thing, probably
when I was sixteen. You know, it was easier for
me because I was a goalkeeper, so like physical ability
was never an issue, Like I didn't have to like
run fast, like I just had to be smarter and
(07:27):
think two steps, you know, ahead of the game. My
biggest issue came with the bluntness. Like I could tell
you know, one of my teammates on my boys team
just directly what I needed in the moment, and didn't
feel like I had to deliver it and in some
type of way that was easy, easy to be digested,
(07:49):
or like there was no confrontation. It was like quick, precise,
to the point, let's let's win this. And the way
we spoke to each other was just very blunt and direct.
When I went to the women's locker room when I
turned fifteen, and I was just very direct of what
I needed told, like the response was, ah, how dare
(08:12):
you speak.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
To me that way?
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Like people just would shut down. It was really really
hard for me. I'm curious if you experienced anything similar
in that.
Speaker 4 (08:23):
Definitely, I would say, though maybe the difference between the
boy's locker room and the women's locker room wasn't as
extreme in hockey because you already are kind of filtered
for people with kind of aggressive personalities. Maybe, like I
definitely think things drag out longer in the women's side
(08:45):
on average, and like, obviously we're working with stereotypes, but
like I remember, with the boys, you could like get
in someone's face, like some of the guys could basically
like have a fistfight and be buddies again the next day, yep.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
Whereas like conflicts.
Speaker 4 (08:56):
In the girl's locker room tended to stretch out, like
take a lot longer to resolve, and and tended to
involve more people also as they were resolved, like you
were saying like mean girl in and out girl like
stuff like that, whereas the boys, like it was very
rare for the team to like take sides of a conflict.
It was just like, all right, they're having it out,
like sorted out. Yeah, it's so true. The feedback thing
(09:22):
on the ice was like very interesting in a transition. So,
my first like real girl's locker room was in college,
which was.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
Like quite great.
Speaker 4 (09:33):
It was really quite late, and like the girls on
my college team were awesome, super fun, still like lifelong
friends with a lot of them, which I'm really lucky about.
But there was definitely like a transition period. Also, you're
just like, that's also the first time in college locker
room you're meeting people from other environments, you know, like
growing up in Montclair.
Speaker 3 (09:50):
It's it's a pretty unique place Montclair. People have different.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
Backgrounds to some extent, but also like a pretty shared
political spectrum.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Yeah, yes, like in college you're getting people from.
Speaker 4 (10:03):
All walks alf rural Canada. We have very different political perspectives.
And very different life experience, so it's hard to tell,
like what was that and what was it being all girls?
Speaker 3 (10:13):
But so true transition for sure.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
I think sometimes we don't realize how much our hometown
lives inside us until we leave it. Like you know
what I mean, It's so true because I couldn't I
couldn't agree more. Do you feel like your upbringing and
like a small Jersey town shaped kind of the woman
you eventually became like on the ice or in your activism?
Speaker 1 (10:40):
Like what was it like?
Speaker 2 (10:42):
Do you feel like Jersey still shows up every day
inside you?
Speaker 1 (10:46):
Because you do.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
You've lived all over the place, You've traveled all over
the place. You've played in multiple professional leagues, which you
know all of us have done if we're in women's
sports at some point. Yeah, I'm curious, like what is
it like now living in Italy and you know, being
born and raised?
Speaker 1 (11:07):
Were you born here or just raised here?
Speaker 4 (11:10):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (11:10):
I was born and raised in mont Okay, Okay.
Speaker 4 (11:12):
Yeah, It's a really cool question for me because I've
lived out of New Jersey now since I was eighteen
years old. So like I think for a long time,
you know, like moving to Canada, I didn't.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
Feel like it was culturally that different. It's been five
years in Calgary.
Speaker 4 (11:28):
But then in retrospect and reflection, there were some cultural
differences that I could only see after the fact, And
there were some things that maybe were like a little
bit weird or a little bit different about me that
I just thought were individual. But now I can see,
like when I go back to Jersey after so long away,
how at home I feel with some of the things
that you were aready talking about, like the confrontation style.
(11:48):
I remember when I moved to Canada, I had to
slow down how fast I spoke and I got called
out a lot for interrupting. But then when I go
back to New Jersey and I think about it, I'm like,
you can't get a word in if you know, interrupt you.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
If you don't get in there, you're you're falling behind exactly.
Speaker 4 (12:04):
And then like so I lived in Spain for a
year and then Sweden for two years, very very different
cultures both of those places. I mean Spain, I've lived
in Barcelona, Like it's so much fun there. It was
like overload for my very I don't know, high achieving
New Jersey attitude because everyone is just like what do
(12:26):
you mean, we're just gonna go to the beach.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
We don't need a plan, you know. Like I remember
when I first got there.
Speaker 4 (12:32):
I we had like plans to go to a bar,
and the group was like, Okay, see you there at nine,
and I'm like, you know, okay, I'll be there at nine,
like no problem. I was like sitting in that piazza
for like forty five minutes waiting for everyone to show up.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
Because in.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
No times is like I like to say, it's like
island time, but they're not on an island.
Speaker 4 (12:52):
They're just on their own time. Yeah, And then Italy
is really different. Also, like I live in a really
small town now in the mountains. It's a small place
I've ever lived. I'm like an hour and a half
from a medium sized airport, about three hours from a
major airport.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
And like growing up in New Jersey, you have what
four or five huge you.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
Can fly anywhere in the world anywhere basically, and I
never really appreciated how valuable that is when you want
to go travel and see the world.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
So now like if I want to go somewhere.
Speaker 4 (13:22):
I really have to be committed because it's like three
four hours of travel before I even get to the
airport and then probably a connecting flight, which is like
just a very different experience for how connected you are
to the rest of the world. Obviously with the Internet
is different, but still for like getting physically somewhere, it's
really different.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
It's so different and all of these experience, Like how
has it shaped your perspective? Because now I imagine you said,
you've been in Italy for the last how many years,
five or six, five or six years, you're watching firsthand
how massive women's sports are getting here in the US,
(13:57):
especially the PWHL. How has that been for you, Like
how you know, as someone who's helped really shape this culture,
in this huge movement going on in women's sports, does
it feel hard not to be a part of it
here or like, talk to me about how that feels.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
Seen it from Afar in the last few years.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
It's just absolutely exploded everywhere, at least here. I don't
know what it's like in Europe, but I'm curious to
see your perspective on it, as you know you're living it.
Speaker 4 (14:28):
I feel like really like proud, like a proud parent. Yeah,
there's a little bit of like I wish I could
be a part of it for sure, But I also
know if I weren't on this journey like to try
to get my citizenship and to play in the Olympics,
like I would have been retired.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
A long time.
Speaker 4 (14:44):
Yeah, so we actually so for the national team, for
the Italian national team. Before the Olympics, we centralized in
Montreal and we got the opportunity to go watch a
peed up game. I got to watch some of my
ex teammates Autowa versus Montreal, and like, the product on
the ice is really similar, which is really cool because
it's a lot of the same best players plus the
(15:05):
younger generation, so it's like obviously improved, but the hockey
is amazing. But it's so crazy to me to see
like little girls with like branded merchandise with the players
that I've known growing up, like to actually see them
have recognition. It's about time, Like it's so cool to see.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
It's so cool to see.
Speaker 4 (15:24):
And I see that in Europe they admire from like
my little small perspective of what I'm seeing here, like
they they value it more because they see that it's
a product that can be commodified. Now, like to see
that it's there's actual attention being brought to it, so
now they see it as legitimate, but the development here
(15:45):
is still different, like the way society in Italy views
women's sports, women and men. It's not like a misogynist
well whatever, it's not just men, and it's in society
thinking that women shouldn't partake in it.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
It's just it's still seen as kind of like odd.
Speaker 4 (16:01):
I had a really strange experience and I'm still not
sure if it was a translation error while I was
still learning Italian. It was my second or third year
we won the Italian championship, and on the ice in
the championship postgame interview, he asked me like, why did
you choose to play such a masculine sport? And I
was like, first of all, this is a really weird
time to answer that question, and like, second of all, like,
(16:24):
clearly it's not a masculine sport, Like clearly people are
you know, women are playing it and doing it well,
and it was just.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Has been for a really long time.
Speaker 4 (16:31):
Yeah, And I think that that kind of captures the
perspective here on it's still kind of an oddity, which
is unfortunate. Yeah, and absolutely there's still not a lot
a lot of young girls with the opportunity to play.
For sure. It's the same as when I was a kid,
like twenty years ago. They have to play with the
boys and you have to have a certain personality for
that to work, you know, And so you miss out
(16:52):
on a lot of girls who could fall in love
with the game and who it could be great contributors
because they don't have that you know, unique personality that
they're really stubborn that they don't you know, they take
the bullying as kind of a challenge to show people
that girls can do it too.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
You know, that's not for everybody, So stay tuned.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
I'll be back in just a moment after this brief
message from our sponsors. It's so true, and like what
I think most people don't understand is how much we
have to build our own brands, how much women athletes
(17:31):
have to build themselves and have different avenues and outlets
and means, because like we're not used to making a
bunch of money.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
We do this because we love it.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
So our values really really show up in the sports
we love, which we've seen with you, you advocate fiercely
for so many different things. Like everything that you've done,
you're clearly a very highly educated, smart woman, and you
started to question like, okay, how much energy? What's going
(18:07):
on when we're like building these ice skating rinks, and
like how are we supporting climate change? And how are
we showing up an environmental like safety conscious way.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
When did all that start for you?
Speaker 2 (18:19):
When did that activism and that intelligence in terms of
I'm going to go after this?
Speaker 1 (18:24):
You went to Brown? And what did you study at Brown?
In engineering or mechanical engineering?
Speaker 4 (18:30):
Mcan?
Speaker 1 (18:31):
I mean, geez, girl, you checked every damn box. When
did you have time to be a normal as human?
Speaker 3 (18:38):
I didn't sleep, To be honest with me, I'm sure
you didn't.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
But what made you go after that?
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Because you know when I went to college, I went
to the University of North Carolina.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
I was like, oh my god, this is a full
time job.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
Like how the hell am I supposed to be committed
to being a champion here and giant target on my
back that we always had to be the best while
being the best version of myself in a good I
mean it was I just remember sleep being in study hall.
I mean, people literally used to make fun of me,
but I'm like, this is the only way I'm going
(19:12):
to stay above like the grades. I need to be here,
Like it was really really hard and you checked every
damn box, blew it out of the water, So I
need to know your secrets.
Speaker 4 (19:22):
No, I feel like I like surf, like I just
barely survived. No. When I think about so, like growing
up in Montclair, I feel like there is already kind
of values that we should leave the world better than
how we found it.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
And climate change was a topic we learned about in school.
Speaker 4 (19:38):
Maybe we were like kind of the earlier co cohort.
Speaker 3 (19:41):
That learned about it. So I studied.
Speaker 4 (19:43):
There was like an architecture track at Montclair High School,
which was awesome. So there was an architecture program that
I did for three years where we were able to
learn about sustainable architecture basically.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
And Brown was my dream school.
Speaker 4 (19:56):
I wanted to go IVY, I wanted to play Division
one by like kind of luck, in my opinion, I
got there. The coach saw me at a camp at
in Montclair, liked what she saw, made me an offer.
It was my dream school, so it was like obvious
early decision. There's no architecture program at Brown, and architecture
(20:17):
and Division one sports. Probably I don't know if any
I don't know if anyone that's done that. It's like
the time requirements are too crazy. So I did engineering,
focused on sustainable buildings.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
In engineering, but.
Speaker 4 (20:28):
Like at Brown, it was crazy because it's it's two
full time jobs. The worst curriculum for engineering is very
time intensive, plus the homework. It was really challenging that
I was always missing, like the collaborative study sessions, you know,
because everyone, all the real Brown students as we used
to call them, were like studying while I was at practice.
And you know, we're away on the weekends, we're traveling
(20:51):
all the time. Plus you know, you're like trying to
be a part of the team. So it was just
it was chaotic, I have to say. But what was
even crazier, like when I look back at college, I'm.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
Like, how the heck did I do that? I have
no idea.
Speaker 4 (21:01):
Thankfully, I had another girl on my team who did engineering,
so me and my roommate Dance Wits, we were able
to kind of like, you know, survive it together. But
my whole team actually at Brown was really academically ambitious,
so hanging outs were happening at the library. I did
also sleep at the library quite a few times, lots
of all nighters. But what's even crazier when I think
about the PDUB now and the SEEDUB. When I first
(21:22):
started my first year in the SEATUB, so it was
like a year after I graduated from Brown, I had.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
To get a full time job.
Speaker 4 (21:28):
There was zero, oh yeah, zero payment for the SEEDUB,
even though we were playing like with the Canadian Olympians,
like the best players in the world. There was. It
was a league that we had to fund ourselves. And
I also needed a visa to be in Canada, so
I needed to work visa.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
So I surely had to pay that.
Speaker 4 (21:43):
Yeah, So I started my engineering career basically, and I
was working full time forty hours a week. And then
that first season, we were playing three game weekends, so
we were flying to Toronto to Montreal whatever, playing Friday, Saturday, Sunday,
which like you cannot perform well playing three games in
a row plus travel, and a lot of times we
were driving Monday morning, like from an overnight flight and
(22:03):
I was going straight to my desk, which was like insane.
Like I look back at that, I'm like, that makes
me tired just to think about it. And I remember
thinking too, it's just like kind of how you were saying,
like how can you be a champion when you're in
those in that context, Like, I just remember feeling like
I wasn't doing anything well enough. You know, I'm tired
all the time on the ice. I felt tired at
my desk. It was enough, like I managed somehow. But
(22:27):
like you know, now now that I get to be
a full time athlete the last you know, seven years,
basically I can see how important, like what an advantage
to be able to sleep enough, Like it's such a
small thing, but like I can perform so much better
just you know, being able to stretch when my body hurts,
you know, crazy things like that, take care of it. Yeah,
I remember in the seat up. I have this really
distinct memory. We were coming back. It was an overnight flight.
(22:49):
I was supposed to be at my desk and you know,
like the Canadian Olympians, thankfully, like the Canadians are really
well funded by their government. It's still not equal and
they're still like room to grow and everything like that.
But at that time, I remember I had an Olympic
teammate who was on the flight with me, and she
meant nothing by this.
Speaker 3 (23:06):
It was you know, not malintention at all, but she was.
Speaker 4 (23:08):
Like our flight was delayed and she was like, oh,
I'm going to miss my massage appointment.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
And I was like, I have a meeting, like.
Speaker 4 (23:15):
An actual work meeting that I'm going to miss, Like
I wish I was missing my massage place.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
I know, right, it's so true because like I think
people need to hear more of these stories, because it's
like it was so for the love of the game,
Like so many of us had phenomenal education we had,
you know, we could be out in the workforce, really changing,
like you said, leaving this place better than we found it,
(23:43):
really building a future for this next generation and our children.
It's like, but we love it so much, but I'm
curious if that love ever turn. I say this because
I carried it to resentment. I think for me at
the end of my career. You know, I was a
part of the equal pay lawsuit. I mean I just
felt like we had to fight. Like all I felt
(24:05):
like I did. I mean, I was sick of myself.
All I felt like I did was complain, fight, hold
you know, the internal infrastructure accountable with more lock thereof
It just was so exhausting, did it ever the love
of the game ever turn into resentment for you?
Speaker 1 (24:27):
Did it ever creep in?
Speaker 3 (24:28):
Absolutely? I think on multiple occasions.
Speaker 4 (24:31):
You know, like it's never just the sport, right, There's
always other things coming in. I know in college there
were some you know, team culture things that were really
hard to work through, so we were like also as
a team kind of fighting for equality. But I would
say even more recently, you know, being over over in Europe,
(24:55):
you're really like fighting for the bare minimum and to
come from like you know, the Seeda was a fight
the whole time, like for sure, and we made a
lot of progress and the reward is seeing the peed
up now, right, But I've spent five years playing for
a local club here in Botsano, and I don't feel
(25:15):
like we've made progress at all. And I'm hoping that
there will be like a wave with the Olympics, because
there was a lot of publicity and there are a
lot of really great Italian born players that are like
really amazing role models for the next generation coming up.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
But it's the leagues in Europe still, in.
Speaker 4 (25:38):
My opinion, are not moving in the right direction for
developing non North American talent. So yeah, I would say
you know, like growing up, we're on the ice almost
every day. You need to be on the ice to
be getting better. We're on the ice two days a
week here. For example, when I first moved here, we
didn't have a gym. You know, you have to train
(26:00):
if you want to be a professional. So I like
fought to get us in the gym, and now now
the girls are training. But it was and you know,
I was the strength and conditioning coach. Like I do
not have that expertise at all. I was the strength
and conditioning coach for like two years. I'm like, I mean,
I'm going to take my programs that previous coaches have
(26:21):
given to me, and I'm gonna try to like I
know how to do the exercises, but like this is
not my forte at all.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
Stay tuned.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
I'll be back in just a moment after this brief
message from our sponsors.
Speaker 4 (26:35):
Yeah, I mean for sure, like post Olympics, I am
feeling major burnout. I don't know if you had this
with your career. Yeah, the last six years have been
absolutely crazy stressful. I actually got my passport about six
weeks before the Olympics, about four weeks between before the
team was selected. There were just like bureaucratic hurdle after
(26:57):
bureaucratic hurdle.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
Oh, I imagine, And.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
It was really really really hard.
Speaker 4 (27:02):
So yeah, like my dad was born in Italy, but
he became American when he like he grew up in America.
He got a citizenship when he passed away. It counts
as like breaking the bloodline. So I had to do
this whole extra process.
Speaker 3 (27:17):
I had to do a.
Speaker 4 (27:18):
Language exam, which is no problem. It was really hard,
but it makes sense.
Speaker 3 (27:22):
I think.
Speaker 4 (27:23):
I had to do like background texs and you know,
all sorts of tax things, and then there was an
error in you know, like one piece of paper, so
I had to add it whole a year and a
half of the time I was supposed to be in Italy.
Then the law changed for a six month window where
the period that I was supposed to be in Italy
went from three years to two years.
Speaker 3 (27:45):
I was able to get my citizenship in that period.
Speaker 4 (27:48):
And then after I was granted my citizenship, there were
like six more steps and it was really like I
really didn't know. I really didn't know till the end.
For the last like year and a half. Part of
the Olympics, I thought it was ninety percent probability I
was not going to get my citizenship in time. And
it was just like massive burnout for just trying to
like love the game and just trying to like enjoy
(28:09):
twelve hour bus rides when you have this goal in
mind and you're not sure if it's going to work out,
and you want to be able to say you left
it all out there and you want to say you
did everything you could that was in your control.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
But it was exhausting.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
It was exhausting, I know.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
But what do you hope the younger generation never has
to experience that our generation had to, Like what are you?
Speaker 1 (28:33):
What do you hope for them? That's a great question,
because that's like.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
The reason why we do what we do, you know,
like we could be doing a million other things, but
we show up, We choose the grind, We understand the implications,
we understand the lack of investment and resources, and we
wake up and we choose it.
Speaker 4 (28:56):
Anyways, I think the biggest thing that comes to mind
for me is just not being told they don't belong,
making it like so obvious that there are role models
out there of who they could be, that like no
one can really say girls don't play hockey, because clearly
they do. And in North America, they're making lots of
money to do it. Yes, not as much as they
should be, but right now they're, like, you know, making
(29:17):
real salaries, they're making real careers. No one can really
say we don't belong because how many times did we
hear that when we were growing up?
Speaker 1 (29:23):
Oh my gosh. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
No, it's like, you know, and I think that resilience
that you know, you always hear the statistic about ninety
four percent of women in C suite positions played youth sports, right,
But I think it's it's a reflection on what these
young girls had to go through at such an early age.
And talk about belonging, talk about feeling enough, talking about
(29:49):
choosing yourself over and over, talk about understanding body issues
and all of these things, right, they all go hand
in hand. And for me, I think that's why I
advocate so much for young girls in sports, because.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
It really really does teach you.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
A lot about yourself and trusting yourself and trusting your
body and understanding the power you carry. I wish I
could give that gift to everyone, But I think what
has impressed me the most is really about your advocacy
because it's not performative. I think sometimes people because you know,
(30:28):
as a women's athlete, you have to have values and
purpose beyond the game. Otherwise it'll drive you into the
ground because it's mental. You'll bang your head against the
wall and be like why the fuck am I doing this?
Because you start to question everything because you understand the
system wasn't built for us, right and we've had to
pave the way over and over and over again, and
(30:49):
even when it's crushed us or failed leagues or having
to pick up and go play in you know, all
different countries just to be seen. I mean it's exhausting,
you know, and we continued to choose it. You know,
how are you continuing to like hold true to your
(31:11):
values and you know, your activism while you're over there?
Like are you working still there in climate change outside
of sport or is it now normalized to be a
full time job?
Speaker 3 (31:28):
I am.
Speaker 4 (31:28):
I left my job about a year and a half
before the Olympics just to be all in.
Speaker 3 (31:32):
But I was working for a green building company called Living.
Speaker 4 (31:35):
Future, the European subsidiary, and it's a really cool organization.
They do green building certification. They don't use the term
green building. They use regenerative building because the buildings are
just like completely self sustaining. They're water positive, energy positive,
(31:56):
no toxic chemicals at all. In the builds for homes,
they're including regenerative agriculture. They're just doing like above and
beyond of all of the building standards, and it's really
holistic and really cool in terms of like bringing the
values to sport. I don't think I ever set out
to be an advocate of anything. I have never felt like,
(32:18):
you know, the double edged side of like always having
to fight for legitimacy is I never I was like
always a little ahead of the leagues, having really big
public awareness. So it was never top of mind for
me that I was getting the word out like when
you reached when your producer reached out to me on Instagram,
(32:40):
I literally was like, I think you have the wrong person,
you know, Like I think it was more just I'm
really opinionated, I'm really stubborn, and when I see something wrong,
I have like I can't sleep at night until I
say something. And thankfully I've been in environments where I've
been able.
Speaker 3 (32:59):
To do so. Eco athletes is a really cool organization.
Speaker 4 (33:02):
I kind of stumbled into them, and that's been a
really cool nexus of a lot of the things that
I care about and a really cool place to meet
other athletes who care about climate change. And through through them,
I've gotten a lot of opportunities to speak out about
climate change and sport and specifically, and it's one of
those things I never thought that the two would ever meet.
(33:22):
I never thought that the two paths wouldever collide in
the way they did. And my master's studies were in
sustainable energy and I ended up doing my thesis on
ice rinks and particularly on like a more sustainable refrigerant
that can cool ice rinks more with less climate impact.
Speaker 3 (33:43):
And when that opportunity came up, I was kind.
Speaker 4 (33:46):
Of like, that's too good of a mix to not take.
And then that opened a lot of doors and then
that being highlighted at the Olympics was really really huge. Yeah,
It's something I didn't expect because for me, the story
of the Olympics was about, you know, honoring my dad's memory,
and you know, it was much it was kind of
like secondary my climate stuff. So I'm just like thrilled
(34:06):
that that's had such an impact and been, you know,
something people have talked about.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
Of course, because right now, as I mean, if you're
watching the WNBA or you're following anything on social media,
these athletes have influence now that.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
Are so big, more than they ever have been.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
Whether you agree with it or not, I'm not going
to say I agree with a lot of a lot
of things that are coming out in the last two
weeks in the WNBA. It makes me want to pull
my air out. You know, there's a lot of things
I don't agree on, and my values like I stand
behind them, especially when it comes to advocating for everyone,
(34:50):
not just a certain group of people. Do you think
athletes have a responsibility to speak about issues beyond sports,
because I feel like.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
We're in a really unique place right now.
Speaker 4 (35:04):
Yeah. It's tough, right because I don't ever feel like
people should be pressured or asked questions about topics that
they're not passionate about.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Or educated about.
Speaker 4 (35:15):
Especially Yeah, but I think, you know, we're role models
for a reason, and I think it is a platform
that can be used for good. I think about all
of the athletes in history that have made such an
impact on civil rights, on women's rights, on equal pay,
(35:35):
you guys are a huge part of that. Like, there's
just so many things that athletes have been so impactful
about and you know.
Speaker 3 (35:42):
Blessing or a curse. I don't know for sure.
Speaker 4 (35:44):
There have been athletes that have you know, said the
wrong things and advocate for things I don't agree with
as well, But I think like a platform is a privilege,
and yeah, as long as people are.
Speaker 3 (35:55):
Listening, we should keep talking about the things we care about.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
Well, I think also because you've brought up your dad,
you know, a few times, and some of the most
meaningful things we build are from the people we've lost.
And you are such a big advocate when it comes
to talking about really hard topics and topics that carry
a lot of grief. And you started is it called
(36:21):
keep the Beat fundraiser a game to honor your father
and your cousin correct, who both passed and I know
you were it was at fifty five number fifty five
in the Olympics to honor him. How was that walking
into the tournament, being able to carry so much excitement
(36:44):
for the opportunity but also the grief that you were carrying, Like,
what was that like for you?
Speaker 1 (36:50):
Holding space for kind of both.
Speaker 3 (36:54):
Yeah, I think.
Speaker 4 (36:56):
The Olympics were such a rush of emotions. I still
have really been able to put towards what that experience
was like for me. I feel like my dad was
with me in getting my citizenship in time and getting
the opportunity to be there, and I think it was
such an honor.
Speaker 3 (37:19):
Something I really didn't expect.
Speaker 4 (37:20):
Let's see if I can express this, something I really
didn't expect because we've had so much grief in my family,
because we've been through some really, really hard things together.
It was such a joy and a privilege to bring
something happy to my family. And I think when I
set out on this journey and I told my family
about it, they were with me through the uncertainty of
(37:43):
not knowing if I was going to get there or not.
And I had never really imagined what it would be like.
To see how happy they would be to see me
on the ice and to share that experience together was
really something spectacular. My brother flew out, my mom was there,
my cousin, my aunts like, it was really an incredible thing.
(38:06):
My dad's one of my dad's really good friends, and
his business partner didn't say anything. It just flew out
and a childhood friend saw him in the stands and
that's how we knew that he was there at the games.
And like we're talking like fully grown men tearing up
about a sport, Like I'm just you know, I'm a
hockey player, Like I'm not like a brain surgeon. Like
it was just such a special experience, Like it was
(38:28):
really it was really I can't really express what it was.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
Yeah it was.
Speaker 2 (38:34):
And I imagine but because of the loss and the
grief and holding space, has your definition of success change
since losing him, because I imagine it gave you a
lot of perspective. But I don't want to put words
in your mouth.
Speaker 3 (38:50):
Yeah, I would actually say so.
Speaker 4 (38:52):
The full story of my dad is he had his
first heart attack playing hockey when I was eleven, and
he was like pretty close to dying during that first
heart attack. And obviously I was a kid, I didn't
really understand what was going on he was in the hospital.
I thought he was on a business trip like whole thing.
But I think it changed his perspective on parenting. And
I don't know, Like, obviously I can't talk to him
(39:14):
now about it, but I would say, like the majority
of my values come from my dad, and my dad
was very big on non materialism, on generosity, on kindness
to everyone that you meet, no matter their status, so.
Speaker 3 (39:31):
That perspective of success.
Speaker 4 (39:32):
I feel like before his passing he had already really
transmitted that to me. He was big on, like, you
can't take money with you when you die, because he
had had that like near death experience.
Speaker 3 (39:45):
And yeah, there.
Speaker 4 (39:48):
Was just hockey after he passed was challenging because it
was something that we really had together, meet him and
my brother, and like, my best memories of my childhood
with him are like reflecting on wins and losses in
the car rides, like every like you know, athlete has
experienced with their parents probably or often, you know, whether
(40:11):
it's the it wasn't as bad as you.
Speaker 3 (40:13):
Thought, or you should have skated a little harder, you know. Yeah, And.
Speaker 4 (40:18):
To not have him through the inevitable challenges that came
up in hockey after, you know, not getting a long
with coaches, not getting a lot with teammates, things not
going as I hoped, not being able to call him.
Speaker 3 (40:29):
Was really hard.
Speaker 4 (40:30):
Yeah, And I don't know, to reach the pinnacle of
our sport in his honor was really really special for me.
Speaker 2 (40:38):
I imagine that was very magical, and I imagine he
was there with you regardless. But I know we're wrapping up,
and I usually always, you know, my conversations, I'm so
conditioned sometimes to ask people what they're working on next.
I want to give other people a platform, but instead
I want to ask, actually, like how you're doing, what's
(41:01):
bringing you joy, what's bringing you peace? How are you
holding it all together there and feeling very far from
what you feel as like normal and your chosen family?
I imagine there is great, but your family is here.
So I guess for a wide open conversation, I just
wanted to check in and see, like, how you're doing,
(41:23):
are you are you at peace? Are you still grieving?
Are you still figuring it out? I know we're all
a work in progress, but I always love to check in.
Speaker 3 (41:33):
Yeah, I think the grief will always be there. I think, yeah.
Speaker 4 (41:38):
I think right now what I'm processing most is like
what's next in sport? For me?
Speaker 3 (41:44):
I don't know if I'm going to continue playing or
if I'm done, and if.
Speaker 4 (41:48):
What's next is the really big uncertainty in my life now.
But I'm just trying to enjoy summer in Italy. I
just had a nice little road trip down to southern
Italy and enjoying Jilato.
Speaker 1 (42:02):
I'm dying to go, dying to go.
Speaker 2 (42:05):
Literally, Well, I have to reach out to you, and
I appreciate your vulnerability. I appreciate the way you show up.
You've lived a big life, and you deserve the platform
to continue sharing your values and the way you show
(42:26):
up and the way you advocate. I think some of
us are just gifted with the ability to connect and
move people and understand sport is really just a small
part of who we are.
Speaker 1 (42:38):
It's honestly just what we do.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
We carry so many beautiful qualities outside of it, and
I want to be able to tell those stories and
share those stories, and without question yours has always been
really meaningful and magical in the way you show up.
So I'm very grateful for the way you lead with
vulnerability and intention and clarity. So so, Jackie, thank you
(43:03):
so much for being on Wide Open.
Speaker 1 (43:05):
I wish you like the best.
Speaker 3 (43:07):
This was really cool. Yeah, I've been month there. I
gotta let you know, can you please?
Speaker 1 (43:12):
I love like I live here, like my kids are living.
Where did you go to elementary school?
Speaker 2 (43:17):
I'm not going to give it away where my kids
are going, but I'm just curious.
Speaker 3 (43:21):
I went to Rand. I don't know if Rand still exists.
It was never heard. They're high. And then I went
to Mount Hebron, which I think is buzz Aldrin. Now
okay for middle school, and then months are high.
Speaker 1 (43:32):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (43:34):
My kids are literally four and five, so I'm not
even close to that. But we're we you know, we're.
Speaker 1 (43:39):
Starting elementary school. I'm like exciting, I know.
Speaker 2 (43:43):
And I'm from like a really tiny, small beach town
called Satellite Beach. I literally went to this. It was
called Surf Side Elementary School.
Speaker 1 (43:53):
It was tiny.
Speaker 2 (43:55):
I'm like, going on these school tours, these buildings are castle.
Speaker 3 (44:00):
Yeah, Montclair School is no joke.
Speaker 1 (44:03):
I'm like, I'm stressed for my child, who's five.
Speaker 2 (44:06):
I'm like, she's gonna walk in here and be like,
the fuck are you taking me to this castle for
I'm scared.
Speaker 3 (44:12):
She's gonna do great.
Speaker 1 (44:13):
I know she's gonna be great. She's a lot more.
Speaker 2 (44:15):
She's so brave compared to me. I'm like, I would
have been shaken in my boots. But yeah, I'm excited
for these these beautiful babies to go to such a
progressive like cool. You know, this town is super artsy,
it's super inclusive of all different backgrounds, clearly progressive, like
(44:37):
it checks it like so many boxes, which is awesome.
I imagine it has shaped you know, so much of
the woman you are today, and I hope it does
the same for my kids.
Speaker 3 (44:48):
I'm sure it will.
Speaker 4 (44:49):
I feel like there's so many opportunities, like any curiosity
you have, you can chase it with some of the
best in the world because you're so close to New York.
Speaker 3 (44:56):
It's a unique, such a unique thing. It's really cool.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
Well, Jackie, good luck with everything.
Speaker 2 (45:02):
Thank you so much for coming on Wide Open, and
we'll see everyone. We'll see everyone next week on another episode.
Thank you so much, Jackie for coming on. What I
love so much about this conversation and what I love
so much about Jackie is she honestly refuses to separate
the athlete from the human. She loves hockey enough to
(45:23):
want it to be better. She honors the people she's
lost by living with intention, and she's proof that success
doesn't have to come at the expense of your values.
I hope this conversation reminds you that the things we
love aren't perfect, but they're worth fighting to improve, whether
(45:43):
that's your sport, your community, or the planet itself. If
this episode meant something to you, please share it, like it, subscribe, listen,
and leave us a review. I hope you guys have
a great week, and again, thanks for listening. We'll see
you next time on Wide Open.
Speaker 4 (46:07):
Mm hmmm mmm
Host
Ashlyn Harris
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Bobby Bones Show
Listen to 'The Bobby Bones Show' by downloading the daily full replay.