September 14, 2026 • 49 mins
Mary Mazzio joins us to share the powerful story behind Mighty Mary and the lessons she’s carried from elite sport into filmmaking and life. From failure and rejection to resilience, leadership, and self-belief, this conversation explores how the mindset of an athlete can shape everything that comes next and why the story of women breaking barriers in sport still matters today.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, prevent any disease. Hi, everyone,
(01:38):
and welcome back to another episode of Wide Open. I'm
your host, Ashlyn Harris, and I'm so happy you're all
here today because we have a very special guest. Mary,
welcome to the show. I'm so happy to have you here.
Former Olympic athlete, who now is just creating, yeah, you're
just creating unbelievable stories all over the place.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
It's just incredible. Thank you, Ashlyn. And by the way,
thrilled to be here. I mean, it's so fun to
talk to another extraordinary, well, I shouldn't say another, because
I was a good athlete. I don't know if extraordinary
is the word, but you were an extraordinary athlete. So,
so fun to talk about the landscape and what you're
trying to do. And then of course, Mighty Mary that
we're totally fired up about.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Fired up about. We're going to really get into that
because what a beautiful story. And so such an important
topic right now. But before we get too, too, too
into it, I don't want to dismiss the fact that
you and I are both athletes. That is how we started.
And I just think there's so much of who we
(02:43):
become later starts with who we were as professional athletes, Olympians,
I just think there's just invaluable skills and assets that
transfer into the real world. And I say this all
the time for young women. It builds so much self-confidence,
body awareness, just like this ability to navigate a lot
(03:07):
of different situations and scenarios that life throws at you.
So I want you to take me back before the films,
before the docs, before the law career. I mean, you
really are checking all of it. What were you like
as a young athlete? Were you bullish and hunger and
always knew?
Speaker 2 (03:26):
No. So I knew in my head, but no, I
had no eye hand coordination as like a child. So
I was cut. left and right. Okay. I played JV softball.
I'd like squeeze my eyes shut when the ball would
come to me. Like unlike you, I had no aptitude
and I ran track, but I threw the javelin and
(03:49):
not very well, by the way. So I was, I'm
just going to just share. I like my Olympic teammates
just like hilariously like roasted me. I was a high
school cheerleader. Oh my gosh, I love this. Oh yeah,
my split jump, Ashley.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
I love this.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
I could split jump to split jump of all split jumps.
And I remember like, you know, we were Bay State
champions in Massachusetts. Hello. And I was able to lift
like in a standing shoulder mount. And I was like,
I'm kind of strong. And it wasn't until I went
off to college, but I always like I'd watch the Olympics. Yes.
(04:29):
And I'd be like, I'd be in like this little
dream where like I'm swimming or whatever. And the anthem
would come on and my tears would well up. Oh, yes.
I don't know where this, I was channeling something because
on the face of it, my sister Liz was the athlete,
you know, tennis star and running star. And I'm the cellist.
(04:50):
You know, and I'm the cellist because who else plays
the fucking, sorry, is this profanity free?
Speaker 1 (04:55):
No, you're good.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
You can do it. Who else plays the cello? Like,
and by the way, I love the cello, but put
that aside. So I go to college. I'm at a
women's college. Now I had danced. So I had done
ballet for years and years and years. And this man
comes up to me, it's a women's campus and says, well,
you've got pretty big pins. You've got big legs. And
(05:17):
I'm like, Okay. What? Like, who are you? And he said,
I'm the rowing coach. Like, why don't you come down
and try out? Well, for whatever reason, 150 women show
up to try out and you have to run around
a lake that's three quarters of a mile. I am DFL. Okay.
Second to DFL. I have no fitness. I'm like, I'm
(05:40):
like wheezing. And he literally says to me, and, and
this was a lesson in like life. He says, you know,
I don't know if we need you to come down tomorrow.
And I don't know what I said, but he let
me come the next day. And like, the thing about
rowing is you've got to get up at five in
the morning. You're running in the dark. It is such
(06:01):
a difficult, right? And by the end of the first week,
like I look around, there's like four of us left
out of 150 women. So I really became this athlete
by default. And, you know, my, my mother's like, you know,
you never took no for an answer. Like, and I
don't know how that happened. And then because it wasn't
eye-hand coordination, right, turns out I had some gifts. And,
(06:25):
you know, you become a very, very, you know, big
fish in a small pond. And that's where it started. But,
you know, you asked me, like, what you learn as
an athlete and a woman. And for me, the most
important thing was failure. Hands down. Because I was getting
cut from camps. I was a little bit undersized. Like
(06:47):
I'm a big woman, but in the scope of like
women who are chiseled from the gods in my sport,
six to 185 pounds, right? Like, and I'm 5'10, right? Barely.
I'm telling everybody I'm 5'11, hashtag horseshit. And, you know- Just.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
Giving yourself a little, little- Little inch. You're allowed.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Just a kiss. And, you know, and I'll never forget
two years, two years before the games and I'm getting
closer and closer. Right. But it is still no guarantee.
And I get cut again. And I remember going and thinking,
all right, now I got to clear up my locker.
Like this is a dead end. And the hymns in
(07:30):
my head and, you know, the anthem, it's like so
far away. And I go back to the boathouse and
And there was a veteran three-time Olympian. She's like, oh shit,
you got cut, didn't you? I'm like, fucking cut again.
And she said, and I said, I'm going to clear
up my locker. And she said, because at first she said, okay,
let's go do stadiums. You run stadiums.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
Yeah, of course.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
And she's like, we're going to go throw up. Then
we're going to go to breakfast. It'll be awesome. And
I said, I'm going to clear up my locker. And
she said to me, she's like, wait a minute. You
are so fast. And it's never going to happen for
you unless you start believing it. Because I was really
inconsistent as an athlete, like blazing fast and then dog slow. Yeah.
(08:11):
And then she said to me, what is up with
all the excuses you make every time you lose?
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
Holy.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
And I was like, I don't make it. Oh, shit.
I make excuses all the time. And that changed my
life because I was like, if I'm going to do this,
I have to do it honestly. I have to have
no safety net of excuses. And then I was like,
all right, how do I focus in? I'm going to
stop training with the men who were super attractive and distracting.
(08:46):
I'm going to stop going to parties because I loved,
you know, parties. I'm going to start eating right. I'm
going to really focus in. I started seeing a sports psychologist, right?
I don't know if you did that.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
Yeah, of course.
Speaker 4 (08:58):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
And, because I used to be somebody with a little ADHD,
like super distracted. Right. And he taught me, and I
don't know if you did this, um, math exercises that
Eastern block countries would do with a television or people
running in circles. And I went from not being, you know, pizza,
who's got the pizza, not being able to do two
(09:20):
of them to by the end I could do like
dial in. And I learned how to focus and concentrate.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
Like, And, you know, I went- Hyper fixation.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
One year, hyper, hyper. Hyper. One year being ranked like
13th in the country to third. All right. Well, when
you're third, they kind of have to take you to
the Olympics. So, you know, that process of failure and,
you know, we live, and you know this better than
anybody in a society where if you get knocked down,
you're supposed to stay down. But the lessons you learn
(09:49):
from failing, if you can Take a deep breath and say, okay,
it's not a reflection of who I am, but maybe
where I'm going and say, look at yourself really honestly.
And instead of saying, I got jobbed by the ref
or what, that was a bad call. Well, wait a minute.
What responsibility do I have for my own performance? And
I feel like that has informed everything from being like
(10:12):
a better filmmaker, a better mother, a better person, whatever, right? That, that,
especially as a woman. dial in and you can still
have fear and right and fuck up left and right.
But as long as you go in and with true intent,
go and focus and do what you're trying to do,
then good things will happen.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Yeah, exactly. And I think the other thing to add
to that, because failure is such a big component of this,
I think being able to handle rejection is another one
and being coachable. Because I think as an athlete, not
I think because I know, I've lived it, you have
to be your biggest cheerleader. Talk about cheerleading. Because in
(10:56):
your career, you get told all the fucking time you're
not good enough. And you have to be able to
pick yourself up and choose it and do it all
over again. So even with the failure piece, being able
to navigate your entire career Most likely, because sports, it's
(11:19):
win or loss. There's no in between. Even in World
Cups and Olympics, you have gold, silver, bronze. No, no, no, no.
Let's be very, very clear. If you're not winning, you're shit.
There's no in between.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
You sound like Ricky Bobby. You sound like Ricky Bobby.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
It's just fact. So to be able to handle the
criticism and the truth That comes with failure. That comes
with not being told you're not enough.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
And resilience.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
And resilience. My mother used to say, I remember my
mother used to say, you can cry for a day,
just one day. And then the next day you've got
to pick yourself up and get back to the plate. Yes.
And I know my mother had so many lessons like that,
that she was not an athlete. And yet she imbued
this confidence that was just... wild. And I think so
(12:15):
much of us men, but also women to have imposter syndrome.
Do I belong? Am I good enough? And especially women,
we operate more on a meritocracy when we know that
everything in life is much more nuanced in terms of like,
whether it's a political game, who gets opportunity, who doesn't.
(12:36):
And I remember my sports psychologist said, you know, Mary,
if you're feeling like an imposter, like put stickers up,
like visualize. And so I'd have these little stickies in
my bathroom. You're a badass. You're a tiger. You're going
to win. And I remember going in and I'm like, okay,
that's full of shit. That's like, you feel like you're
a fraud, but something magical happens when you have these self-affirmations.
(13:01):
And that certainly came true for me. And it was like,
I was like, okay, that is wild. When you couple
the self-affirmations with like just a focus and dedication, amazing
things can happen. It's so true.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
And it's interesting too. And I don't know if you
connect the dots to this, but when I think about
some of your work over however long now it's been,
you've had so many incredible stories and films of people
facing enormous adversity. And what I love is you're able
(13:36):
to tap into those type of narratives and it moves
you and it creates this beauty of art through storytelling.
And I'm wondering if you clock it even more because
you've been through so much adversity, you've been through the trenches.
And it's interesting because not everyone has an eye for
it because it's not a lived experience. You can't, I mean,
(13:59):
of course, life has adversity all the time. But sport,
it's every fucking minute. Like you're dealing with, it's not
going your way a lot. And it's something you have
to learn to control because one thing we both know,
consistency and emotion is key when you're competing. Can't be
(14:20):
fucking too high. Can't be too low. You know, you
talk about the most basic things is to be so
in the moment. But I'm curious, like, Because your ability
to tell these type of stories, do you have that
lens going into it of a lived experience based on
your athletic career and all of these things you've gone through?
Speaker 2 (14:43):
A hundred percent. And I feel like that's informed a
lot of my work, sort of David and Goliath, right?
Everything that we take. And really more acutely, it's about
ordinary people doing extraordinary things. and in places that you
may never know. And I feel so lucky that communities
(15:05):
that you might not hear their stories have invited me in,
embraced me. And I attribute some of that to lessons
I stumbled into early on, whether it was having teammates
of color in college and having these frank conversations. I
will never forget, Ashlyn, when a really good friend of mine,
(15:26):
Cindy Thornton, We walked into the lunchroom and she looked
at me. She's African-American. She's a black woman. And she said,
I bet you see three tables of black women. I said, yes.
Why is that? She said, you want to know what
I see? I see a hundred tables of white women.
What's up with that?
Speaker 3 (15:44):
And those, I feel like I've been blessed with the
generosity of spirit of so many people.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
In my life. that have made me aware of, of
issues and things that otherwise, you know, you come in
with your own blinders and biases and living abroad, right.
In different cultures and different communities. And, and at the end,
at the end of the day, you know, I've come
to this fundamental realization, which is my mother used to say, Mary,
(16:17):
you are always there when the bus comes. However, I'm
a white woman, blue eyes, the bus is going to stop. Right.
But for citizens of color, right? Like the bus of
opportunity is going to roll on by. Yeah. And how
do we extend that like umbrella of privilege? And so
all of my films really are about, you know, extraordinary
(16:40):
strength and overcoming huge obstacles by people who you may
not expect can, can figure out a way around those obstacles.
And I love stories like that, right?
Speaker 4 (16:50):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Whether it's undocumented boys in the middle of Arizona. who
kicked the shit out of MIT in a sophisticated robotics competition.
Say what? Right. To, you know, African-American, the first African-American
rowing team on the West side of Chicago, or my
last film, this native community, right. Battling a Canadian pipeline operator.
(17:15):
I mean, all of these stories are for me, such
a privilege to be able to share and tell and, And,
you know, coming forward now, full circle with Mighty Mary. Yes.
You know, to have a story where we are in
a state of like relationships are frayed. Everything is so
(17:37):
highly charged and partisan and political. Yes. To have, and
you know this better than anybody, fierce adversaries. You overlay
gender on top of it. You have women who... Rookies
in Mighty Mary going toe to toe against the finest
sailors on the planet. No handicap, no short course. Like
(17:58):
that's a historical first right there. Right. And yet to
have the men that they faced. Right. Just incredible antagonism.
30 years later, come and talk about this shared experience. And,
you know, when one of the sailors, most famous sailors
of his time, Paul Cahart, says something like, you know,
(18:21):
we need to move away from what our fathers taught
us and lean into what our sons are learning. Yep.
The hair on the back of my head.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
It was the biggest line in the entire.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Was that?
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Yeah. It was unbelievable.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
Emblematic of the time that we're in, because it's a
signal that notwithstanding the regression we're seeing, notwithstanding the pressure
and oppression of social media, putting our girls and boys,
but acutely our girls in these boxes for how they
need to look and act and, you know, the sexualization
(19:00):
that goes along with it. Yes. Right. That is for
him to say something like that, which is so thoughtful
around more people need to be at the table and
to have a story where it's not this sort of
oppressive what we have to look like or sound like
or do. And instead get out there, get ugly, get dirty,
(19:23):
fucking let it go. Explore your limitations. You know, when,
as you know, so many girls quit sports at the
age of 12 or 13 and for one and two,
one and two, what you said at the top of
the hour, which was how the lessons that we learn
about resilience and leadership and teamwork and going for it, right?
(19:45):
All of those things that you learn in sport make
us all productive citizens. you know, and less teen pregnancy and,
you know, alleviates, right, depression and anxiety and everything that
goes with that.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
Everything, everything.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
Yeah, it's crucial.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
And truthfully, you know, not only that, when you invest
in women's sports, when you talk about, you know, access
and all these things, When you look at women who
are leading the 90 percentile in C-suite positions, all played
sports growing up. It's amazing. So now you're telling me
women who play end up to be women who lead.
(20:22):
We need to start focusing a lot more on access
at the grassroots level because it really affects, as a culture,
our bottom line.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
Yeah, and I think, yeah, 100%. The other really interesting
thing I think that comes out of this film is leadership.
And you had a fully male management team who were
so honest about the mistakes they made in this movie, right?
But when you extrapolate out, we have corporate America, right?
(20:51):
You have predominantly men in power. Yes, you've got women
breaking through, but you have men leading diverse teams. And
I think the film shines a light on unintended biases,
how you think about capability. And who can do what?
And I think it provides a really interesting business lesson
for leadership in terms of, oh, what should we be
(21:12):
thinking about and how do we maximize such diverse experiences? Right.
Because as you said, there's another statistic around women led
companies or companies with strong female leadership is better in
terms of quarterly earnings and shareholder return. Right.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
It's interesting you say this stuff because I do think
this is why the, the film is going to be
so great. The, your ability, your ability to understand the
assignment literally because you've, it's a lived lesson, right? You
understand going into this, what needs to be told, what
needs to be highlighted? How do we like really access
(21:52):
in this point in time in women's sports? Because for
those of you who don't know, Mighty Mary is a
story of, it's 1995, it's an all-women's America Cup team,
you know, literally showing what is possible, but it was
almost like a publicity stunt, right? It's like, They did
(22:15):
this out of like, in my opinion, I don't know
the right intentions, but fuck it. We're here, right?
Speaker 2 (22:22):
Rookies. A group of rookies that responded to an ad
in the New York Times. Crazy. Now, and the question was,
do they have the physicality to move a 55,000 pound
boat around the course? Now, I was on the team
with six of these rookies. uh, you know, cats that
I knew how much they could bench press. I knew
(22:44):
how much they could lift. I knew their endurance. And
I was like, well, I don't know if they can
outdo a similarly situated man, right. Especially as it relates
to grinding and getting the sales up and down. Um,
but I know this group of women and they are
going to bring a mentality that is going to be,
you know, eat snails for breakfast. Um, And so I
(23:06):
think that, you know, it's just yet again, another principle
of talent and intelligence is equally distributed. Yes. So as
a rower, I was watching the world championships this year
and they've got some mixed boats, right? Men and women
in a single shell. In the mixed double, you had
(23:29):
times with a woman in it that would have been
in the final row. of the men's double, two men together.
And you say to yourself, wow. Now I am not
advocating in any way for not having women's sports, but
it just shows you that, you know, this idea that
women are lesser than even at their prime is something
(23:52):
that just needs to be rethought. And when you look
at the sport of sailing, so much of it is
around technology. And Ashlyn, I have to tell you, like
one of the most exciting things and the film is
not even out yet. Coming to theaters. Soon. But the
America's Cup itself, this institution so long resistant to change,
(24:14):
has invited Mighty Mary, which is going to usher in.
the 38th running of the America's Cup with a signature
event in Naples, Italy this fall. I mean, I'm pinching myself.
I'm so excited. And for the America's Cup to recognize
this sort of lost gem of history, if you will,
and to celebrate it along with a new initiative around
(24:38):
diversifying what has largely been a male sport with mandating
the inclusion of women going forward. Like what a powerful validation.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
Yes. Yes. racing aging masters or having some sort of, right?
(25:13):
They went toe to toe with the finest men on
the planet. And there's something really exciting and novel about that.
It's like an NHL team going up against a professional
women's hockey team, right? Just hasn't been done, but you
had enough technology, right? So you had strategy, intelligence, right? Mathematics, physics, right?
(25:35):
Like how are you maneuvering around the velocity of the
waves and the amplitude of it, right?
Speaker 1 (25:39):
Like it's just- And even through an American gladiator, why not?
Speaker 2 (25:46):
Why not?
Speaker 1 (25:47):
It's brilliant.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
She had issues with her hearing, right? She was hearing impaired. And,
you know, there was a native Hawaiian sailor who had
a very different perspective on teamwork that she shared with
the team and an African-American coach. And so you had
all these fascinating elements- in what was really largely a
white privilege sport.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
Well, I'm curious with you saying that, what do you
think we got wrong about these women in 1995 that
you wanted to correct 30 years later?
Speaker 2 (26:22):
First of all, they mattered, right? They mattered. What they
did matter because this was before the internet, right? So
the historical piece of what they did has really been lost.
But the other thing that's very important to remember is
they took down the king. They defeated the winningest sailor
(26:43):
of all time at that time, Dennis Conner, and his
band of merry men. And that is a shocking thing
in and of itself. Now, the king, Dennis found a
way back into the race. He's the consummate strategist.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
But the fact that that.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
Happened is a stunning... validation, right? That these women belonged.
They belonged.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
They're doing backdoor things just to take them down because
they couldn't win outright. I love it.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
We're just going to say it how it is, Mr.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
Dennis. I love that. Yeah. Stay tuned.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
I'll be back in just a moment after this brief
message from our sponsors. What impacted you personally? the most
because you got to interview some really, really incredible people.
And I'm wondering through this and through uncovering, you know,
this documentary, like what surprised you the most? What did
(27:45):
you take out of it that impacted you the most
that you weren't, you didn't realize walking into it?
Speaker 2 (27:49):
A couple of things. I mean, a, these women eat,
you know, tax for breakfast and, you know, follow it
up with a drink and nails. I mean, honestly, so tough.
And ballsy and profane. Yes. I knew that. And plus
I knew all the grinders. So I knew that going in.
The thing that surprised me was the perspective that the
(28:10):
men brought and how many of them raised their hands
to participate. Dennis Conner is in this movie. He is
notoriously press-averse, right? So I'm so grateful for the honest perspective,
I think, that these men made. The other thing that
surprised me was my own knee-jerk reaction. And that is
(28:32):
like when the women were trying out, a number of
highly decorated sailors were cut. And maybe they were opinionated.
And I remember thinking, I wonder if that's male bias.
And then I watch Miracle. And Herb Brooks had this philosophy,
no stars, no egos. Like we want a team that
can be cohesive. And I was like, I need to
(28:54):
check my own biases. right? And assumptions about people of
goodwill are trying to do the best that they can.
And maybe they were onto something by trying to find
a group of people who they thought could work together.
That being said, the fact that a skipper was never
(29:15):
named was a great impediment to the team. And that
was something that I sort of learned because I'm not
a sailor, but you know, when you think of every
vessel that's been on the water since the dawn of time, Right.
Every ship has had a skipper and someone who is
the final play caller, if you will. Yes. Yes. And
so I think that was a really interesting nuance to
(29:36):
the campaign. And then how honest the women were. about
how they acted back then. And now in retrospect, what
they might've said, but on the other hand, this was
a professional sports team, right? You've got to be very
careful how you approach ownership. I don't care if you're
a football player in the NHL, right? Like this is
(29:57):
your livelihood and you still need to figure out if
you object to the strategy, let's say of the owner
or the head coach, you need to be very careful
how you articulate that. That is just a fact. And
it goes back a little bit to what you and
I were talking before about, there's a political game.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
Oh gosh, yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
In addition to, right, the game of merit and how
you navigate challenges and communicate those to the people in
power with the levers to make change. Like that is
an ongoing battle even for, you know, for women acutely,
but for anybody, right, that is operating in the world
of professional sports.
Speaker 3 (30:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
And it's really interesting. I guess like my reflection after watching,
I actually realized like, oh my gosh, like across women's
sports in general, women get an opportunity. They succeed. And
then everyone acts fucking surprised by the success. And it
(30:55):
just shows me, you know, because I'm 40, you know,
I've lived a life, I've fought for equal pay. I
understand what it's like to not have the right investment
and access to be the best version of myself. But
it's like, holy shit, this has been going on for
so fucking long. And at every checkpoint, women have succeeded.
(31:15):
And then we keep, like, I guess my question is,
do you think that we're finally moving past the era
of having to prove That women belong in elite sports
or are we fighting a new version of the same
fucking battle?
Speaker 2 (31:29):
I don't know. That's such a great question. I mean,
I think, listen, interest in women's sports is cresting, right?
There's more box office receipts. Sorry, there's more gate receipts
for women's sports. On the other hand, as you said earlier,
how many head coaches are women? There's such a lack
of women in coaching ranks generally. When you look at
(31:53):
NCAA sports, and I'm talking women's sports, right? Scholarship opportunities,
like you sort of go down the list and we
need more women and opportunities for women. Like there's just
no question. And it really mimics what's happening in society, right?
Do we need more women in Congress? Yes. Do we
(32:14):
need more representation? Nevermind women, people of color, right? Different religions.
Like you need that. When you have a diverse group,
there is just simply better decision-making, period. And so how
do you ensure that both within the sporting world with
ownership of teams and then sort of extrapolate beyond, right?
(32:36):
And so I think it is a constant battle. And
the other piece around this that is also challenging is
how do we ensure that our sons are not left behind, right?
And because if our sons are left behind, you've got
that antagonism again between gender. And so that's also a
real problem. And how do we think about that? So
(32:58):
I think you've got sort of multi-layers, but certainly the work,
there is a lot of work to be done in
terms of creating access and opportunity for girls, for women,
for people of color, for low income, white male stakeholders, right?
So as you think about the broad spectrum, how do
we create... more access and opportunity for those who don't
(33:22):
have it. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
And especially in a sport like this, where it's very
costly to get on the water. This is not like
just grab a soccer ball and go kick around in
the parking lot or a dirt field or, you know,
this is like, it's got to have serious money and
access behind these type of things that not everyone is
privy to. It's just fact.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
And yet there are sailing clubs and like rowing clubs
as well, right? Where you've got very expensive equipment, but
they're all over the country and willing to teach new
people how to sail. So it's how do you create
access to the water? How do you make sure young
people have swimming lessons? And sort of some of the
basic elements because unlike the contact sports, there's something really
(34:08):
beautiful about sailing and rowing that is non-contact. And I've
heard from psychologists and psychiatrists from across the country that
young people, especially those that have lived through COVID have
high rates of anxiety, trauma, depression, that non-contact sports, right?
Rhythmic sports, sports that are outside are more crucial now
(34:33):
more than ever from just a sheer mental health standpoint.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
Correct.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
So, you know, there's that layered on top of it. So-
You know, to be out with a story like Mighty Mary,
where these women, you know, just defied the impossible. Yes.
Speaker 4 (34:47):
Right?
Speaker 2 (34:47):
I think creates so much hope and, you know, for
the next generation.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
And you can see the impact, even having, you know,
I don't know if you want to speak on this,
but the project was narrated by Hugh Jackman and Elizabeth Banks. Like, hello?
Speaker 2 (35:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:08):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
That's absolutely incredible. And it just shows the power of
the story and the message. I mean, are these people
you wanted from the beginning or it kind of just happened?
Tell me the story behind that.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
From the get-go, honestly. So when we were starting the project,
I was like, okay, we need a great narrator. But
then when So Many Men became part of the film,
it really changed the whole... feel and movement of the documentary.
And I was like, well, wait, we also need a
male narrator. And Hugh was like, of course, he was
(35:48):
a sailor, he owns a sailing team. He also, I
don't know if you know this, but he's an avid
indoor rower.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
Oh, wow.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
He posts his scores online. And so when I reached
out to his team, I said, so as a bonus-
I will throw in, like, we'll do a Zoom session.
My daughter and I will, like, help, like, we'll look
at his biometrics. We'll give him some pointers.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
Let's go.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
Like, we can get his ERG score down. And apparently
he just laughed and laughed and laughed. And Elizabeth Banks,
I mean, she's a producer, right? She's a writer. She's
a director. She owns, as you know, a piece of
the Boston legacy, right? So she's a sports team owner.
And she just has this great talent around her. a
(36:33):
little bit of comedy, right? Like she's comedic, she's dramatic.
And I felt like, boy, she would bring the right sensibility.
And then when we shared with both the teams, like
they were like, oh, love her. Oh, love him. And
then in studio, Ashlyn, both were so dynamic. And I'll
tell you, I sat in. So when I was recording
(36:55):
Elizabeth in LA, the tech person said, oh, why don't
you sit in with her? Now, normally when you're recording voiceover,
you're behind... You know, there's the booth and I'm not
in the booth, right? So I can talk, I can chat. Well,
she's saying her lines and then I'm laughing because she's
like improv-ing and I'm like, oh shit, I'm laughing over
her lines. So unprofessional. I'm laughing over her lines.
Speaker 1 (37:18):
That is brilliant.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
And at one point I'm like, oh shit, I'm so sorry.
And she turned to me, she's like, Mary, she was
so great. And then she's like, hey, flip me the trailer.
I'm going to drop it. I'm so excited about the project.
Speaker 1 (37:29):
This is awesome. And then we record huge.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
And Hugh is like literally so fantastic. And he's jumping
in the studio and he's like, I love this. And
we're going through his lines. And he said, Mary, your
team said you only needed 50 minutes. I don't care
what our deal says. I have a Zoom in 50 minutes,
but I'm coming back. Like whatever you need, we're going
(37:53):
to get this done. And I'm thinking... oh shit, we're
opening in three weeks, right? Like we got on his schedule.
I'm like, we got to get through this. So I
was more bossy than normal, right? I'm like, we got
to get through it. So I said to him, let's
see if we can't get through this. So he said,
you know, says some lines. He's like, I think I
should say it. I'm like, nope, you nailed it. Nope,
(38:14):
you nailed it. And then he'd say something. I'm like,
all right, what if we say it like this? And
I go, because I'm fucking obnoxious, right? And he's like, oh,
I like that. All right, let me try it like that.
And we blew through the session. And we're almost done.
He turns to me. He's like, mate, you're one of
the best directors I've ever worked with. Now. Wow.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
That's a big fucking compliment.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
Huge. Like I'm grinning. I have the, I have the tape.
I'm like, I'm going to use this. He's like, you should.
He's like Christopher Nolan.
Speaker 3 (38:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
Buzz Lerman, whatever. I'm now in hysterics. And he's like, you're,
you're so clear with what you want. And he dropped
a post saying, the other day of our trailer, and
he did not have to do this. He's such a
kind man. He wrote, at Mary Mazio, you're a force.
And I was like, what a, he didn't have to
(39:04):
mention my name, right? Like just such a lovely, accessible,
like good, good human man, right? And so that energy
that he brought, and he said, oh, by the way,
this is reminding me of my childhood growing up sailing
in Australia. Yeah. And by the way, I grew up
(39:24):
during the Dennis Conner years, right? And he's like, all
of Australia feels very animated around Dennis Conner.
Speaker 1 (39:30):
Oh, I'm sure. I'm sure everyone was at that time.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
So honestly, both of them brought extraordinary talent and energy
to the project. And the fact that they're helping to
support it on top of that, that's like icing on
the cake. And I feel- So grateful. And I feel
grateful to Beyonce's team. You know, the opening track is
a Beyonce track, right? Run the world. And it's very
(39:56):
unusual to have a talent of that magnitude with a
piece of art like that in a documentary. And my co-producer,
Alison Abner, you know, talk about a diverse thinking, right?
Like Alison is both African-American and native, right? So she writes,
she wrote for Narcos and West Wing. and imperfect women.
(40:19):
And we like, we were shoulder to shoulder on every edit,
every piece of narration and to have honestly, like the
key to these things. And I'm sure you would agree,
especially as an athlete, you surround yourself with the best
people you can and you're along for the ride, right?
Like I'm- It's a team. It's the team. My composer
(40:43):
who worked with Whitney Houston.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
Can't carry the load alone.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (40:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:48):
Like the artistry that he brought and the genius of
our young editor and like the team around me was exceptional.
And so I feel so lucky that they really, I'm
along for this ride, right? Like in many, many ways
and have just an extraordinary team. And that's the name
of the game, right? So it was an amazing team
(41:10):
behind the team of Mighty Mary. Stay tuned.
Speaker 1 (41:13):
I'll be back in just a moment after this brief
message from our sponsors. I have to ask this question
because I am in a new season of my life
as someone who just retired and a lot following in
your footsteps in scripted and unscripted TV and television, film
(41:36):
and television. So I'm I'm curious as someone who's lived
so many different chapters, Olympian, lawyer, filmmaker, mother, all of
these things, I'm curious what remained the consistent through line
for all of them for you? Because that's going to
be my question. I'm going to do a little and,
because what it shows me is you're not fearful to
(41:58):
start again.
Speaker 2 (42:01):
Right? Oh, I'm very fearful.
Speaker 1 (42:02):
But the way I see you being able to check
all these boxes, I'm just like, What's the secret sauce?
How are you so okay to start over again and
again and again? It's not failure, because this is totally
different industries, right?
Speaker 2 (42:16):
Right, right. These are totally, like.
Speaker 1 (42:19):
Lawyer, psych, I'm going to be a filmmaker.
Speaker 2 (42:22):
Like, what?
Speaker 1 (42:23):
Like, what has remained consistent through all of this greatness?
Speaker 2 (42:30):
The lessons I learned as an athlete, which is, you
know what? What's going to be harder than... you know,
of course everyone has life traumas, very difficult, but as
an athlete, I'm looking at the Russians over here, the
Germans over here, like what in life, right. Is going
to be more scary, right. From, from like, just to
(42:53):
just put aside personal trauma. Right. Um, how do I
think about what's the worst that can happen? Right. And
give myself a year.
Speaker 1 (43:03):
Right.
Speaker 2 (43:03):
And I think that, It's the ability to be fearful,
but to swallow your fear and say, I think I...
So making the leap from being.
Speaker 4 (43:15):
A lawyer to a filmmaker was really that I was
a young lawyer and I was doing a lot of
work with indigent tenants, right?
Speaker 2 (43:26):
In historically neglected neighborhoods. I was paying in rent for.
What people were paying, let's say in Roxbury or Mattapan
of Boston, or when I was a law student in DC, in,
you know, Southeast, and they were paying the same amount
of rent that I was. And they've got cockroaches, no
(43:47):
hot water, no, like it was insane, the disparity in
treatment of those citizens, right, from different zip codes. And
I remember thinking, all right, well, I can I can
keep doing a little bit of work and like, it's,
it's a mile deep. I might be helping one family here,
(44:07):
but it's the same story, different face. And then I
was like, but what if I think more broadly about social, like,
how do you think about social change? And that I
was like, okay, well maybe I'll be a politician. I'm like, shit, what?
And you know, as an athlete, you have very little
in your closet, but there are a couple of skeletons.
And now I'm like, oh my God, some recreational drug use,
(44:28):
who gives a rat's ass? But at the time I
was like, Ooh, what? You know, I, Ooh. Um, and
so I was like, well, it's that, or I always
found film is such a powerful medium. And then I
was like, Ooh, film, give this a try. And, you know,
and it's terrifying, right? I mean, But I think it's
how do you swallow your fear and just try and
(44:50):
move around the obstacles? Because the obstacles are so great.
And people will tell you no, just like you said before,
you're not good enough. No, no, no. But my mother,
once again, said, you know, Mary, no means no for
a minute. Maybe it's five minutes. Maybe it's five years.
But it's not no forever. And when you look at
(45:13):
failure and people telling you no, and say, it's just
a moment in time. It shouldn't define me forever. Holy shit.
Like anything becomes possible and the palette of colors open
up in front of you. And so I have to
credit my mother who slayed so many dragons in her lifetime, uh,
from a personal standpoint, lack of opportunity for her to
(45:36):
be able to imbue me and my three sisters with
that sort of, fucking go LFG like let's go and
swallow your fear it can't get worse than this attitude
cry for one day right like she gave me the
courage to sort of move forward and um and I
(45:59):
knock on wood and thank her you know every day
she would be so thrilled with this movie because it's
everything she stood for access for women I love access
that she didn't have and so I'm um.
Speaker 1 (46:13):
Well, thank you so much for sharing that and being
so vulnerable and telling this story after almost 30 years.
And you're right. Like for so long, women, especially women
in sports, have been underestimated and dismissed and told a
hundred different ways that they don't belong. But these women
(46:35):
fucking competed anyways. And let that be the fucking lesson,
you know. And let's tie that on a bow. And
you're right. No doesn't have to mean no forever. And
I think we have to be bullish enough to know
that inner spirit, that inner competitive fire. We're capable of
anything we put our mind to.
Speaker 2 (46:57):
Exactly. And together as a team, right? That's where magic happens,
is it can be a film team, it can be
a sports team, it can be an activist team, it
can be You know, an orchestra can be any team
of people who come together and say we are better
together than we are separately. And how do we harness
(47:18):
that to move forward?
Speaker 1 (47:20):
Yeah, it's beautiful. And thank you so much for telling this.
I cannot wait for everyone to go watch it, please.
To all of our listeners and those watching, you got
to see this documentary. It's magical and we have to keep.
showing what is possible. And there's no better time than now.
(47:41):
And you're making a big difference just in your vision
and your ability to storytell at such a unique vantage
point based on your life experiences. And I think that's
what it's about. It's really about powerful women telling powerful
stories inspired by other powerful women. So I'm so grateful, Mary.
Speaker 2 (48:05):
Oh, thank you, Ashlyn. I have to give you one
postscript to that. Yes. A shout out to our partners
at Skydance and at Paramount, right, for coming early on.
One of the executives at Skydance, Lauren Gaffney, when I
met her, she said, Mary, I got to tell you something. Like,
I was inspired to go into the storytelling of women's
(48:26):
sports because I saw your first movie, A Hero for Daisy,
when I was at Brown. Wow. And I was like,
I'm going to go. And I was like, Oh my,
you know, the full circle moment keeps happening with the film, right?
Like whether it's my connection with Lauren, whether it's the
America's Cup now uplifting the story and legacy of what
(48:48):
these women did. And so I'm so glad we had
a chance to catch up today for your listeners.
Speaker 1 (48:54):
So am I.
Speaker 2 (48:54):
Of course, across the country. the weekend of September 11, 12,
and foot traffic is everything. So if you can't make it,
please buy tickets anyway. Yes, exactly.
Speaker 1 (49:06):
Keep supporting, keep supporting, keep supporting. And Mary, thank you
so much for being on Wide Open. I'm really excited
for everyone to go out and watch. It's an important
thing to see and understand where we're going, but also
where we came from. So thank you. And thank you
everyone for listening and tuning in to another episode of
Wide Open. We will see you all next week. Thanks, Mary.
Speaker 2 (49:29):
Thank you, Ashlyn. Great to be with you. So appreciate it.
Today's segment is sponsored by Vital Proteins. Summer is over
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that's been my morning coffee. I'm a black coffee girl,
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If you're making coffee, you're already halfway there. Thanks again
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product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, prevent any disease. Hi, everyone,
(01:38):
and welcome back to another episode of Wide Open. I'm
your host, Ashlyn Harris, and I'm so happy you're all
here today because we have a very special guest. Mary,
welcome to the show. I'm so happy to have you here.
Former Olympic athlete, who now is just creating, yeah, you're
just creating unbelievable stories all over the place.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
It's just incredible. Thank you, Ashlyn. And by the way,
thrilled to be here. I mean, it's so fun to
talk to another extraordinary, well, I shouldn't say another, because
I was a good athlete. I don't know if extraordinary
is the word, but you were an extraordinary athlete. So,
so fun to talk about the landscape and what you're
trying to do. And then of course, Mighty Mary that
we're totally fired up about.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Fired up about. We're going to really get into that
because what a beautiful story. And so such an important
topic right now. But before we get too, too, too
into it, I don't want to dismiss the fact that
you and I are both athletes. That is how we started.
And I just think there's so much of who we
(02:43):
become later starts with who we were as professional athletes, Olympians,
I just think there's just invaluable skills and assets that
transfer into the real world. And I say this all
the time for young women. It builds so much self-confidence,
body awareness, just like this ability to navigate a lot
(03:07):
of different situations and scenarios that life throws at you.
So I want you to take me back before the films,
before the docs, before the law career. I mean, you
really are checking all of it. What were you like
as a young athlete? Were you bullish and hunger and
always knew?
Speaker 2 (03:26):
No. So I knew in my head, but no, I
had no eye hand coordination as like a child. So
I was cut. left and right. Okay. I played JV softball.
I'd like squeeze my eyes shut when the ball would
come to me. Like unlike you, I had no aptitude
and I ran track, but I threw the javelin and
(03:49):
not very well, by the way. So I was, I'm
just going to just share. I like my Olympic teammates
just like hilariously like roasted me. I was a high
school cheerleader. Oh my gosh, I love this. Oh yeah,
my split jump, Ashley.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
I love this.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
I could split jump to split jump of all split jumps.
And I remember like, you know, we were Bay State
champions in Massachusetts. Hello. And I was able to lift
like in a standing shoulder mount. And I was like,
I'm kind of strong. And it wasn't until I went
off to college, but I always like I'd watch the Olympics. Yes.
(04:29):
And I'd be like, I'd be in like this little
dream where like I'm swimming or whatever. And the anthem
would come on and my tears would well up. Oh, yes.
I don't know where this, I was channeling something because
on the face of it, my sister Liz was the athlete,
you know, tennis star and running star. And I'm the cellist.
(04:50):
You know, and I'm the cellist because who else plays
the fucking, sorry, is this profanity free?
Speaker 1 (04:55):
No, you're good.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
You can do it. Who else plays the cello? Like,
and by the way, I love the cello, but put
that aside. So I go to college. I'm at a
women's college. Now I had danced. So I had done
ballet for years and years and years. And this man
comes up to me, it's a women's campus and says, well,
you've got pretty big pins. You've got big legs. And
(05:17):
I'm like, Okay. What? Like, who are you? And he said,
I'm the rowing coach. Like, why don't you come down
and try out? Well, for whatever reason, 150 women show
up to try out and you have to run around
a lake that's three quarters of a mile. I am DFL. Okay.
Second to DFL. I have no fitness. I'm like, I'm
(05:40):
like wheezing. And he literally says to me, and, and
this was a lesson in like life. He says, you know,
I don't know if we need you to come down tomorrow.
And I don't know what I said, but he let
me come the next day. And like, the thing about
rowing is you've got to get up at five in
the morning. You're running in the dark. It is such
(06:01):
a difficult, right? And by the end of the first week,
like I look around, there's like four of us left
out of 150 women. So I really became this athlete
by default. And, you know, my, my mother's like, you know,
you never took no for an answer. Like, and I
don't know how that happened. And then because it wasn't
eye-hand coordination, right, turns out I had some gifts. And,
(06:25):
you know, you become a very, very, you know, big
fish in a small pond. And that's where it started. But,
you know, you asked me, like, what you learn as
an athlete and a woman. And for me, the most
important thing was failure. Hands down. Because I was getting
cut from camps. I was a little bit undersized. Like
(06:47):
I'm a big woman, but in the scope of like
women who are chiseled from the gods in my sport,
six to 185 pounds, right? Like, and I'm 5'10, right? Barely.
I'm telling everybody I'm 5'11, hashtag horseshit. And, you know- Just.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
Giving yourself a little, little- Little inch. You're allowed.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Just a kiss. And, you know, and I'll never forget
two years, two years before the games and I'm getting
closer and closer. Right. But it is still no guarantee.
And I get cut again. And I remember going and thinking,
all right, now I got to clear up my locker.
Like this is a dead end. And the hymns in
(07:30):
my head and, you know, the anthem, it's like so
far away. And I go back to the boathouse and
And there was a veteran three-time Olympian. She's like, oh shit,
you got cut, didn't you? I'm like, fucking cut again.
And she said, and I said, I'm going to clear
up my locker. And she said, because at first she said, okay,
let's go do stadiums. You run stadiums.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
Yeah, of course.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
And she's like, we're going to go throw up. Then
we're going to go to breakfast. It'll be awesome. And
I said, I'm going to clear up my locker. And
she said to me, she's like, wait a minute. You
are so fast. And it's never going to happen for
you unless you start believing it. Because I was really
inconsistent as an athlete, like blazing fast and then dog slow. Yeah.
(08:11):
And then she said to me, what is up with
all the excuses you make every time you lose?
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
Holy.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
And I was like, I don't make it. Oh, shit.
I make excuses all the time. And that changed my
life because I was like, if I'm going to do this,
I have to do it honestly. I have to have
no safety net of excuses. And then I was like,
all right, how do I focus in? I'm going to
stop training with the men who were super attractive and distracting.
(08:46):
I'm going to stop going to parties because I loved,
you know, parties. I'm going to start eating right. I'm
going to really focus in. I started seeing a sports psychologist, right?
I don't know if you did that.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
Yeah, of course.
Speaker 4 (08:58):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
And, because I used to be somebody with a little ADHD,
like super distracted. Right. And he taught me, and I
don't know if you did this, um, math exercises that
Eastern block countries would do with a television or people
running in circles. And I went from not being, you know, pizza,
who's got the pizza, not being able to do two
(09:20):
of them to by the end I could do like
dial in. And I learned how to focus and concentrate.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
Like, And, you know, I went- Hyper fixation.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
One year, hyper, hyper. Hyper. One year being ranked like
13th in the country to third. All right. Well, when
you're third, they kind of have to take you to
the Olympics. So, you know, that process of failure and,
you know, we live, and you know this better than
anybody in a society where if you get knocked down,
you're supposed to stay down. But the lessons you learn
(09:49):
from failing, if you can Take a deep breath and say, okay,
it's not a reflection of who I am, but maybe
where I'm going and say, look at yourself really honestly.
And instead of saying, I got jobbed by the ref
or what, that was a bad call. Well, wait a minute.
What responsibility do I have for my own performance? And
I feel like that has informed everything from being like
(10:12):
a better filmmaker, a better mother, a better person, whatever, right? That, that,
especially as a woman. dial in and you can still
have fear and right and fuck up left and right.
But as long as you go in and with true intent,
go and focus and do what you're trying to do,
then good things will happen.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Yeah, exactly. And I think the other thing to add
to that, because failure is such a big component of this,
I think being able to handle rejection is another one
and being coachable. Because I think as an athlete, not
I think because I know, I've lived it, you have
to be your biggest cheerleader. Talk about cheerleading. Because in
(10:56):
your career, you get told all the fucking time you're
not good enough. And you have to be able to
pick yourself up and choose it and do it all
over again. So even with the failure piece, being able
to navigate your entire career Most likely, because sports, it's
(11:19):
win or loss. There's no in between. Even in World
Cups and Olympics, you have gold, silver, bronze. No, no, no, no.
Let's be very, very clear. If you're not winning, you're shit.
There's no in between.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
You sound like Ricky Bobby. You sound like Ricky Bobby.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
It's just fact. So to be able to handle the
criticism and the truth That comes with failure. That comes
with not being told you're not enough.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
And resilience.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
And resilience. My mother used to say, I remember my
mother used to say, you can cry for a day,
just one day. And then the next day you've got
to pick yourself up and get back to the plate. Yes.
And I know my mother had so many lessons like that,
that she was not an athlete. And yet she imbued
this confidence that was just... wild. And I think so
(12:15):
much of us men, but also women to have imposter syndrome.
Do I belong? Am I good enough? And especially women,
we operate more on a meritocracy when we know that
everything in life is much more nuanced in terms of like,
whether it's a political game, who gets opportunity, who doesn't.
(12:36):
And I remember my sports psychologist said, you know, Mary,
if you're feeling like an imposter, like put stickers up,
like visualize. And so I'd have these little stickies in
my bathroom. You're a badass. You're a tiger. You're going
to win. And I remember going in and I'm like, okay,
that's full of shit. That's like, you feel like you're
a fraud, but something magical happens when you have these self-affirmations.
(13:01):
And that certainly came true for me. And it was like,
I was like, okay, that is wild. When you couple
the self-affirmations with like just a focus and dedication, amazing
things can happen. It's so true.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
And it's interesting too. And I don't know if you
connect the dots to this, but when I think about
some of your work over however long now it's been,
you've had so many incredible stories and films of people
facing enormous adversity. And what I love is you're able
(13:36):
to tap into those type of narratives and it moves
you and it creates this beauty of art through storytelling.
And I'm wondering if you clock it even more because
you've been through so much adversity, you've been through the trenches.
And it's interesting because not everyone has an eye for
it because it's not a lived experience. You can't, I mean,
(13:59):
of course, life has adversity all the time. But sport,
it's every fucking minute. Like you're dealing with, it's not
going your way a lot. And it's something you have
to learn to control because one thing we both know,
consistency and emotion is key when you're competing. Can't be
(14:20):
fucking too high. Can't be too low. You know, you
talk about the most basic things is to be so
in the moment. But I'm curious, like, Because your ability
to tell these type of stories, do you have that
lens going into it of a lived experience based on
your athletic career and all of these things you've gone through?
Speaker 2 (14:43):
A hundred percent. And I feel like that's informed a
lot of my work, sort of David and Goliath, right?
Everything that we take. And really more acutely, it's about
ordinary people doing extraordinary things. and in places that you
may never know. And I feel so lucky that communities
(15:05):
that you might not hear their stories have invited me in,
embraced me. And I attribute some of that to lessons
I stumbled into early on, whether it was having teammates
of color in college and having these frank conversations. I
will never forget, Ashlyn, when a really good friend of mine,
(15:26):
Cindy Thornton, We walked into the lunchroom and she looked
at me. She's African-American. She's a black woman. And she said,
I bet you see three tables of black women. I said, yes.
Why is that? She said, you want to know what
I see? I see a hundred tables of white women.
What's up with that?
Speaker 3 (15:44):
And those, I feel like I've been blessed with the
generosity of spirit of so many people.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
In my life. that have made me aware of, of
issues and things that otherwise, you know, you come in
with your own blinders and biases and living abroad, right.
In different cultures and different communities. And, and at the end,
at the end of the day, you know, I've come
to this fundamental realization, which is my mother used to say, Mary,
(16:17):
you are always there when the bus comes. However, I'm
a white woman, blue eyes, the bus is going to stop. Right.
But for citizens of color, right? Like the bus of
opportunity is going to roll on by. Yeah. And how
do we extend that like umbrella of privilege? And so
all of my films really are about, you know, extraordinary
(16:40):
strength and overcoming huge obstacles by people who you may
not expect can, can figure out a way around those obstacles.
And I love stories like that, right?
Speaker 4 (16:50):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Whether it's undocumented boys in the middle of Arizona. who
kicked the shit out of MIT in a sophisticated robotics competition.
Say what? Right. To, you know, African-American, the first African-American
rowing team on the West side of Chicago, or my
last film, this native community, right. Battling a Canadian pipeline operator.
(17:15):
I mean, all of these stories are for me, such
a privilege to be able to share and tell and, And,
you know, coming forward now, full circle with Mighty Mary. Yes.
You know, to have a story where we are in
a state of like relationships are frayed. Everything is so
(17:37):
highly charged and partisan and political. Yes. To have, and
you know this better than anybody, fierce adversaries. You overlay
gender on top of it. You have women who... Rookies
in Mighty Mary going toe to toe against the finest
sailors on the planet. No handicap, no short course. Like
(17:58):
that's a historical first right there. Right. And yet to
have the men that they faced. Right. Just incredible antagonism.
30 years later, come and talk about this shared experience. And,
you know, when one of the sailors, most famous sailors
of his time, Paul Cahart, says something like, you know,
(18:21):
we need to move away from what our fathers taught
us and lean into what our sons are learning. Yep.
The hair on the back of my head.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
It was the biggest line in the entire.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Was that?
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Yeah. It was unbelievable.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
Emblematic of the time that we're in, because it's a
signal that notwithstanding the regression we're seeing, notwithstanding the pressure
and oppression of social media, putting our girls and boys,
but acutely our girls in these boxes for how they
need to look and act and, you know, the sexualization
(19:00):
that goes along with it. Yes. Right. That is for
him to say something like that, which is so thoughtful
around more people need to be at the table and
to have a story where it's not this sort of
oppressive what we have to look like or sound like
or do. And instead get out there, get ugly, get dirty,
(19:23):
fucking let it go. Explore your limitations. You know, when,
as you know, so many girls quit sports at the
age of 12 or 13 and for one and two,
one and two, what you said at the top of
the hour, which was how the lessons that we learn
about resilience and leadership and teamwork and going for it, right?
(19:45):
All of those things that you learn in sport make
us all productive citizens. you know, and less teen pregnancy and,
you know, alleviates, right, depression and anxiety and everything that
goes with that.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
Everything, everything.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
Yeah, it's crucial.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
And truthfully, you know, not only that, when you invest
in women's sports, when you talk about, you know, access
and all these things, When you look at women who
are leading the 90 percentile in C-suite positions, all played
sports growing up. It's amazing. So now you're telling me
women who play end up to be women who lead.
(20:22):
We need to start focusing a lot more on access
at the grassroots level because it really affects, as a culture,
our bottom line.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
Yeah, and I think, yeah, 100%. The other really interesting
thing I think that comes out of this film is leadership.
And you had a fully male management team who were
so honest about the mistakes they made in this movie, right?
But when you extrapolate out, we have corporate America, right?
(20:51):
You have predominantly men in power. Yes, you've got women
breaking through, but you have men leading diverse teams. And
I think the film shines a light on unintended biases,
how you think about capability. And who can do what?
And I think it provides a really interesting business lesson
for leadership in terms of, oh, what should we be
(21:12):
thinking about and how do we maximize such diverse experiences? Right.
Because as you said, there's another statistic around women led
companies or companies with strong female leadership is better in
terms of quarterly earnings and shareholder return. Right.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
It's interesting you say this stuff because I do think
this is why the, the film is going to be
so great. The, your ability, your ability to understand the
assignment literally because you've, it's a lived lesson, right? You
understand going into this, what needs to be told, what
needs to be highlighted? How do we like really access
(21:52):
in this point in time in women's sports? Because for
those of you who don't know, Mighty Mary is a
story of, it's 1995, it's an all-women's America Cup team,
you know, literally showing what is possible, but it was
almost like a publicity stunt, right? It's like, They did
(22:15):
this out of like, in my opinion, I don't know
the right intentions, but fuck it. We're here, right?
Speaker 2 (22:22):
Rookies. A group of rookies that responded to an ad
in the New York Times. Crazy. Now, and the question was,
do they have the physicality to move a 55,000 pound
boat around the course? Now, I was on the team
with six of these rookies. uh, you know, cats that
I knew how much they could bench press. I knew
(22:44):
how much they could lift. I knew their endurance. And
I was like, well, I don't know if they can
outdo a similarly situated man, right. Especially as it relates
to grinding and getting the sales up and down. Um,
but I know this group of women and they are
going to bring a mentality that is going to be,
you know, eat snails for breakfast. Um, And so I
(23:06):
think that, you know, it's just yet again, another principle
of talent and intelligence is equally distributed. Yes. So as
a rower, I was watching the world championships this year
and they've got some mixed boats, right? Men and women
in a single shell. In the mixed double, you had
(23:29):
times with a woman in it that would have been
in the final row. of the men's double, two men together.
And you say to yourself, wow. Now I am not
advocating in any way for not having women's sports, but
it just shows you that, you know, this idea that
women are lesser than even at their prime is something
(23:52):
that just needs to be rethought. And when you look
at the sport of sailing, so much of it is
around technology. And Ashlyn, I have to tell you, like
one of the most exciting things and the film is
not even out yet. Coming to theaters. Soon. But the
America's Cup itself, this institution so long resistant to change,
(24:14):
has invited Mighty Mary, which is going to usher in.
the 38th running of the America's Cup with a signature
event in Naples, Italy this fall. I mean, I'm pinching myself.
I'm so excited. And for the America's Cup to recognize
this sort of lost gem of history, if you will,
and to celebrate it along with a new initiative around
(24:38):
diversifying what has largely been a male sport with mandating
the inclusion of women going forward. Like what a powerful validation.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
Yes. Yes. racing aging masters or having some sort of, right?
(25:13):
They went toe to toe with the finest men on
the planet. And there's something really exciting and novel about that.
It's like an NHL team going up against a professional
women's hockey team, right? Just hasn't been done, but you
had enough technology, right? So you had strategy, intelligence, right? Mathematics, physics, right?
(25:35):
Like how are you maneuvering around the velocity of the
waves and the amplitude of it, right?
Speaker 1 (25:39):
Like it's just- And even through an American gladiator, why not?
Speaker 2 (25:46):
Why not?
Speaker 1 (25:47):
It's brilliant.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
She had issues with her hearing, right? She was hearing impaired. And,
you know, there was a native Hawaiian sailor who had
a very different perspective on teamwork that she shared with
the team and an African-American coach. And so you had
all these fascinating elements- in what was really largely a
white privilege sport.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
Well, I'm curious with you saying that, what do you
think we got wrong about these women in 1995 that
you wanted to correct 30 years later?
Speaker 2 (26:22):
First of all, they mattered, right? They mattered. What they
did matter because this was before the internet, right? So
the historical piece of what they did has really been lost.
But the other thing that's very important to remember is
they took down the king. They defeated the winningest sailor
(26:43):
of all time at that time, Dennis Conner, and his
band of merry men. And that is a shocking thing
in and of itself. Now, the king, Dennis found a
way back into the race. He's the consummate strategist.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
But the fact that that.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
Happened is a stunning... validation, right? That these women belonged.
They belonged.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
They're doing backdoor things just to take them down because
they couldn't win outright. I love it.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
We're just going to say it how it is, Mr.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
Dennis. I love that. Yeah. Stay tuned.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
I'll be back in just a moment after this brief
message from our sponsors. What impacted you personally? the most
because you got to interview some really, really incredible people.
And I'm wondering through this and through uncovering, you know,
this documentary, like what surprised you the most? What did
(27:45):
you take out of it that impacted you the most
that you weren't, you didn't realize walking into it?
Speaker 2 (27:49):
A couple of things. I mean, a, these women eat,
you know, tax for breakfast and, you know, follow it
up with a drink and nails. I mean, honestly, so tough.
And ballsy and profane. Yes. I knew that. And plus
I knew all the grinders. So I knew that going in.
The thing that surprised me was the perspective that the
(28:10):
men brought and how many of them raised their hands
to participate. Dennis Conner is in this movie. He is
notoriously press-averse, right? So I'm so grateful for the honest perspective,
I think, that these men made. The other thing that
surprised me was my own knee-jerk reaction. And that is
(28:32):
like when the women were trying out, a number of
highly decorated sailors were cut. And maybe they were opinionated.
And I remember thinking, I wonder if that's male bias.
And then I watch Miracle. And Herb Brooks had this philosophy,
no stars, no egos. Like we want a team that
can be cohesive. And I was like, I need to
(28:54):
check my own biases. right? And assumptions about people of
goodwill are trying to do the best that they can.
And maybe they were onto something by trying to find
a group of people who they thought could work together.
That being said, the fact that a skipper was never
(29:15):
named was a great impediment to the team. And that
was something that I sort of learned because I'm not
a sailor, but you know, when you think of every
vessel that's been on the water since the dawn of time, Right.
Every ship has had a skipper and someone who is
the final play caller, if you will. Yes. Yes. And
so I think that was a really interesting nuance to
(29:36):
the campaign. And then how honest the women were. about
how they acted back then. And now in retrospect, what
they might've said, but on the other hand, this was
a professional sports team, right? You've got to be very
careful how you approach ownership. I don't care if you're
a football player in the NHL, right? Like this is
(29:57):
your livelihood and you still need to figure out if
you object to the strategy, let's say of the owner
or the head coach, you need to be very careful
how you articulate that. That is just a fact. And
it goes back a little bit to what you and
I were talking before about, there's a political game.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
Oh gosh, yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
In addition to, right, the game of merit and how
you navigate challenges and communicate those to the people in
power with the levers to make change. Like that is
an ongoing battle even for, you know, for women acutely,
but for anybody, right, that is operating in the world
of professional sports.
Speaker 3 (30:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
And it's really interesting. I guess like my reflection after watching,
I actually realized like, oh my gosh, like across women's
sports in general, women get an opportunity. They succeed. And
then everyone acts fucking surprised by the success. And it
(30:55):
just shows me, you know, because I'm 40, you know,
I've lived a life, I've fought for equal pay. I
understand what it's like to not have the right investment
and access to be the best version of myself. But
it's like, holy shit, this has been going on for
so fucking long. And at every checkpoint, women have succeeded.
(31:15):
And then we keep, like, I guess my question is,
do you think that we're finally moving past the era
of having to prove That women belong in elite sports
or are we fighting a new version of the same
fucking battle?
Speaker 2 (31:29):
I don't know. That's such a great question. I mean,
I think, listen, interest in women's sports is cresting, right?
There's more box office receipts. Sorry, there's more gate receipts
for women's sports. On the other hand, as you said earlier,
how many head coaches are women? There's such a lack
of women in coaching ranks generally. When you look at
(31:53):
NCAA sports, and I'm talking women's sports, right? Scholarship opportunities,
like you sort of go down the list and we
need more women and opportunities for women. Like there's just
no question. And it really mimics what's happening in society, right?
Do we need more women in Congress? Yes. Do we
(32:14):
need more representation? Nevermind women, people of color, right? Different religions.
Like you need that. When you have a diverse group,
there is just simply better decision-making, period. And so how
do you ensure that both within the sporting world with
ownership of teams and then sort of extrapolate beyond, right?
(32:36):
And so I think it is a constant battle. And
the other piece around this that is also challenging is
how do we ensure that our sons are not left behind, right?
And because if our sons are left behind, you've got
that antagonism again between gender. And so that's also a
real problem. And how do we think about that? So
(32:58):
I think you've got sort of multi-layers, but certainly the work,
there is a lot of work to be done in
terms of creating access and opportunity for girls, for women,
for people of color, for low income, white male stakeholders, right?
So as you think about the broad spectrum, how do
we create... more access and opportunity for those who don't
(33:22):
have it. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
And especially in a sport like this, where it's very
costly to get on the water. This is not like
just grab a soccer ball and go kick around in
the parking lot or a dirt field or, you know,
this is like, it's got to have serious money and
access behind these type of things that not everyone is
privy to. It's just fact.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
And yet there are sailing clubs and like rowing clubs
as well, right? Where you've got very expensive equipment, but
they're all over the country and willing to teach new
people how to sail. So it's how do you create
access to the water? How do you make sure young
people have swimming lessons? And sort of some of the
basic elements because unlike the contact sports, there's something really
(34:08):
beautiful about sailing and rowing that is non-contact. And I've
heard from psychologists and psychiatrists from across the country that
young people, especially those that have lived through COVID have
high rates of anxiety, trauma, depression, that non-contact sports, right?
Rhythmic sports, sports that are outside are more crucial now
(34:33):
more than ever from just a sheer mental health standpoint.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
Correct.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
So, you know, there's that layered on top of it. So-
You know, to be out with a story like Mighty Mary,
where these women, you know, just defied the impossible. Yes.
Speaker 4 (34:47):
Right?
Speaker 2 (34:47):
I think creates so much hope and, you know, for
the next generation.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
And you can see the impact, even having, you know,
I don't know if you want to speak on this,
but the project was narrated by Hugh Jackman and Elizabeth Banks. Like, hello?
Speaker 2 (35:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:08):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
That's absolutely incredible. And it just shows the power of
the story and the message. I mean, are these people
you wanted from the beginning or it kind of just happened?
Tell me the story behind that.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
From the get-go, honestly. So when we were starting the project,
I was like, okay, we need a great narrator. But
then when So Many Men became part of the film,
it really changed the whole... feel and movement of the documentary.
And I was like, well, wait, we also need a
male narrator. And Hugh was like, of course, he was
(35:48):
a sailor, he owns a sailing team. He also, I
don't know if you know this, but he's an avid
indoor rower.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
Oh, wow.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
He posts his scores online. And so when I reached
out to his team, I said, so as a bonus-
I will throw in, like, we'll do a Zoom session.
My daughter and I will, like, help, like, we'll look
at his biometrics. We'll give him some pointers.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
Let's go.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
Like, we can get his ERG score down. And apparently
he just laughed and laughed and laughed. And Elizabeth Banks,
I mean, she's a producer, right? She's a writer. She's
a director. She owns, as you know, a piece of
the Boston legacy, right? So she's a sports team owner.
And she just has this great talent around her. a
(36:33):
little bit of comedy, right? Like she's comedic, she's dramatic.
And I felt like, boy, she would bring the right sensibility.
And then when we shared with both the teams, like
they were like, oh, love her. Oh, love him. And
then in studio, Ashlyn, both were so dynamic. And I'll
tell you, I sat in. So when I was recording
(36:55):
Elizabeth in LA, the tech person said, oh, why don't
you sit in with her? Now, normally when you're recording voiceover,
you're behind... You know, there's the booth and I'm not
in the booth, right? So I can talk, I can chat. Well,
she's saying her lines and then I'm laughing because she's
like improv-ing and I'm like, oh shit, I'm laughing over
her lines. So unprofessional. I'm laughing over her lines.
Speaker 1 (37:18):
That is brilliant.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
And at one point I'm like, oh shit, I'm so sorry.
And she turned to me, she's like, Mary, she was
so great. And then she's like, hey, flip me the trailer.
I'm going to drop it. I'm so excited about the project.
Speaker 1 (37:29):
This is awesome. And then we record huge.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
And Hugh is like literally so fantastic. And he's jumping
in the studio and he's like, I love this. And
we're going through his lines. And he said, Mary, your
team said you only needed 50 minutes. I don't care
what our deal says. I have a Zoom in 50 minutes,
but I'm coming back. Like whatever you need, we're going
(37:53):
to get this done. And I'm thinking... oh shit, we're
opening in three weeks, right? Like we got on his schedule.
I'm like, we got to get through this. So I
was more bossy than normal, right? I'm like, we got
to get through it. So I said to him, let's
see if we can't get through this. So he said,
you know, says some lines. He's like, I think I
should say it. I'm like, nope, you nailed it. Nope,
(38:14):
you nailed it. And then he'd say something. I'm like,
all right, what if we say it like this? And
I go, because I'm fucking obnoxious, right? And he's like, oh,
I like that. All right, let me try it like that.
And we blew through the session. And we're almost done.
He turns to me. He's like, mate, you're one of
the best directors I've ever worked with. Now. Wow.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
That's a big fucking compliment.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
Huge. Like I'm grinning. I have the, I have the tape.
I'm like, I'm going to use this. He's like, you should.
He's like Christopher Nolan.
Speaker 3 (38:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
Buzz Lerman, whatever. I'm now in hysterics. And he's like, you're,
you're so clear with what you want. And he dropped
a post saying, the other day of our trailer, and
he did not have to do this. He's such a
kind man. He wrote, at Mary Mazio, you're a force.
And I was like, what a, he didn't have to
(39:04):
mention my name, right? Like just such a lovely, accessible,
like good, good human man, right? And so that energy
that he brought, and he said, oh, by the way,
this is reminding me of my childhood growing up sailing
in Australia. Yeah. And by the way, I grew up
(39:24):
during the Dennis Conner years, right? And he's like, all
of Australia feels very animated around Dennis Conner.
Speaker 1 (39:30):
Oh, I'm sure. I'm sure everyone was at that time.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
So honestly, both of them brought extraordinary talent and energy
to the project. And the fact that they're helping to
support it on top of that, that's like icing on
the cake. And I feel- So grateful. And I feel
grateful to Beyonce's team. You know, the opening track is
a Beyonce track, right? Run the world. And it's very
(39:56):
unusual to have a talent of that magnitude with a
piece of art like that in a documentary. And my co-producer,
Alison Abner, you know, talk about a diverse thinking, right?
Like Alison is both African-American and native, right? So she writes,
she wrote for Narcos and West Wing. and imperfect women.
(40:19):
And we like, we were shoulder to shoulder on every edit,
every piece of narration and to have honestly, like the
key to these things. And I'm sure you would agree,
especially as an athlete, you surround yourself with the best
people you can and you're along for the ride, right?
Like I'm- It's a team. It's the team. My composer
(40:43):
who worked with Whitney Houston.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
Can't carry the load alone.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (40:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:48):
Like the artistry that he brought and the genius of
our young editor and like the team around me was exceptional.
And so I feel so lucky that they really, I'm
along for this ride, right? Like in many, many ways
and have just an extraordinary team. And that's the name
of the game, right? So it was an amazing team
(41:10):
behind the team of Mighty Mary. Stay tuned.
Speaker 1 (41:13):
I'll be back in just a moment after this brief
message from our sponsors. I have to ask this question
because I am in a new season of my life
as someone who just retired and a lot following in
your footsteps in scripted and unscripted TV and television, film
(41:36):
and television. So I'm I'm curious as someone who's lived
so many different chapters, Olympian, lawyer, filmmaker, mother, all of
these things, I'm curious what remained the consistent through line
for all of them for you? Because that's going to
be my question. I'm going to do a little and,
because what it shows me is you're not fearful to
(41:58):
start again.
Speaker 2 (42:01):
Right? Oh, I'm very fearful.
Speaker 1 (42:02):
But the way I see you being able to check
all these boxes, I'm just like, What's the secret sauce?
How are you so okay to start over again and
again and again? It's not failure, because this is totally
different industries, right?
Speaker 2 (42:16):
Right, right. These are totally, like.
Speaker 1 (42:19):
Lawyer, psych, I'm going to be a filmmaker.
Speaker 2 (42:22):
Like, what?
Speaker 1 (42:23):
Like, what has remained consistent through all of this greatness?
Speaker 2 (42:30):
The lessons I learned as an athlete, which is, you
know what? What's going to be harder than... you know,
of course everyone has life traumas, very difficult, but as
an athlete, I'm looking at the Russians over here, the
Germans over here, like what in life, right. Is going
to be more scary, right. From, from like, just to
(42:53):
just put aside personal trauma. Right. Um, how do I
think about what's the worst that can happen? Right. And
give myself a year.
Speaker 1 (43:03):
Right.
Speaker 2 (43:03):
And I think that, It's the ability to be fearful,
but to swallow your fear and say, I think I...
So making the leap from being.
Speaker 4 (43:15):
A lawyer to a filmmaker was really that I was
a young lawyer and I was doing a lot of
work with indigent tenants, right?
Speaker 2 (43:26):
In historically neglected neighborhoods. I was paying in rent for.
What people were paying, let's say in Roxbury or Mattapan
of Boston, or when I was a law student in DC, in,
you know, Southeast, and they were paying the same amount
of rent that I was. And they've got cockroaches, no
(43:47):
hot water, no, like it was insane, the disparity in
treatment of those citizens, right, from different zip codes. And
I remember thinking, all right, well, I can I can
keep doing a little bit of work and like, it's,
it's a mile deep. I might be helping one family here,
(44:07):
but it's the same story, different face. And then I
was like, but what if I think more broadly about social, like,
how do you think about social change? And that I
was like, okay, well maybe I'll be a politician. I'm like, shit, what?
And you know, as an athlete, you have very little
in your closet, but there are a couple of skeletons.
And now I'm like, oh my God, some recreational drug use,
(44:28):
who gives a rat's ass? But at the time I
was like, Ooh, what? You know, I, Ooh. Um, and
so I was like, well, it's that, or I always
found film is such a powerful medium. And then I
was like, Ooh, film, give this a try. And, you know,
and it's terrifying, right? I mean, But I think it's
how do you swallow your fear and just try and
(44:50):
move around the obstacles? Because the obstacles are so great.
And people will tell you no, just like you said before,
you're not good enough. No, no, no. But my mother,
once again, said, you know, Mary, no means no for
a minute. Maybe it's five minutes. Maybe it's five years.
But it's not no forever. And when you look at
(45:13):
failure and people telling you no, and say, it's just
a moment in time. It shouldn't define me forever. Holy shit.
Like anything becomes possible and the palette of colors open
up in front of you. And so I have to
credit my mother who slayed so many dragons in her lifetime, uh,
from a personal standpoint, lack of opportunity for her to
(45:36):
be able to imbue me and my three sisters with
that sort of, fucking go LFG like let's go and
swallow your fear it can't get worse than this attitude
cry for one day right like she gave me the
courage to sort of move forward and um and I
(45:59):
knock on wood and thank her you know every day
she would be so thrilled with this movie because it's
everything she stood for access for women I love access
that she didn't have and so I'm um.
Speaker 1 (46:13):
Well, thank you so much for sharing that and being
so vulnerable and telling this story after almost 30 years.
And you're right. Like for so long, women, especially women
in sports, have been underestimated and dismissed and told a
hundred different ways that they don't belong. But these women
(46:35):
fucking competed anyways. And let that be the fucking lesson,
you know. And let's tie that on a bow. And
you're right. No doesn't have to mean no forever. And
I think we have to be bullish enough to know
that inner spirit, that inner competitive fire. We're capable of
anything we put our mind to.
Speaker 2 (46:57):
Exactly. And together as a team, right? That's where magic happens,
is it can be a film team, it can be
a sports team, it can be an activist team, it
can be You know, an orchestra can be any team
of people who come together and say we are better
together than we are separately. And how do we harness
(47:18):
that to move forward?
Speaker 1 (47:20):
Yeah, it's beautiful. And thank you so much for telling this.
I cannot wait for everyone to go watch it, please.
To all of our listeners and those watching, you got
to see this documentary. It's magical and we have to keep.
showing what is possible. And there's no better time than now.
(47:41):
And you're making a big difference just in your vision
and your ability to storytell at such a unique vantage
point based on your life experiences. And I think that's
what it's about. It's really about powerful women telling powerful
stories inspired by other powerful women. So I'm so grateful, Mary.
Speaker 2 (48:05):
Oh, thank you, Ashlyn. I have to give you one
postscript to that. Yes. A shout out to our partners
at Skydance and at Paramount, right, for coming early on.
One of the executives at Skydance, Lauren Gaffney, when I
met her, she said, Mary, I got to tell you something. Like,
I was inspired to go into the storytelling of women's
(48:26):
sports because I saw your first movie, A Hero for Daisy,
when I was at Brown. Wow. And I was like,
I'm going to go. And I was like, Oh my,
you know, the full circle moment keeps happening with the film, right?
Like whether it's my connection with Lauren, whether it's the
America's Cup now uplifting the story and legacy of what
(48:48):
these women did. And so I'm so glad we had
a chance to catch up today for your listeners.
Speaker 1 (48:54):
So am I.
Speaker 2 (48:54):
Of course, across the country. the weekend of September 11, 12,
and foot traffic is everything. So if you can't make it,
please buy tickets anyway. Yes, exactly.
Speaker 1 (49:06):
Keep supporting, keep supporting, keep supporting. And Mary, thank you
so much for being on Wide Open. I'm really excited
for everyone to go out and watch. It's an important
thing to see and understand where we're going, but also
where we came from. So thank you. And thank you
everyone for listening and tuning in to another episode of
Wide Open. We will see you all next week. Thanks, Mary.
Speaker 2 (49:29):
Thank you, Ashlyn. Great to be with you. So appreciate it.
Host
Ashlyn Harris
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