September 8, 2026 • 56 mins
Laura Benanti has already made a name for herself on the Broadway stage, and now she’s entering the spotlight on a totally new one. Ashlyn talks to the Tony Award winning actress about her hilarious new one woman show, Nobody Cares, and what it’s like to reintroduce herself to her fans mid-career. Laura opens up about what it’s like to finally stop people pleasing, dealing with online trolls, the humbling moments of motherhood, and being unafraid to speak out in our current troubling times.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hi, everyone, and welcome back to another episode of Wide Open.
I'm your host, Ashlyn Harris. And today we have a
very special guest, Laura Benanti. Welcome to the show. Laura
is an actor, singer, writer, Tony Award winning everything you
can possibly think of. I mean, at this point, I'm
just like, You were born to do this clearly because
(00:31):
I read up on your parents that this has been
in the family for a long time, honey. But now,
now we're starting a comedy show, Nobody Cares, which I'm
like really enjoying a lot of these soundbites that I'm seeing.
I have not seen you live yet, but we're going
to change that. And we're neighbors.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
I know. We're going to be new friends.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
We're having new play dates.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
We're talking at schools.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Before we started this podcast. And I'm like, we got
things to talk about.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
We really do.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
A lot of things. Oh, my gosh. So welcome to
the show. Thank you for coming on Wide Open.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Thank you. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
You know, for everyone, you know, a lot of queer
people here, so that doesn't shock anyone. But we like
to just talk shit.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Great.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
We're not going to hear– we know you have a
great resume. We know. We all know how great you are.
We just want to know who you are. And I
think that is something we're all– connection has really gotten scarce,
let's just say.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Yeah. It's interesting to me because I feel like the
Internet and social media was designed and like positioned to
us like interconnectedness. Like you now we're all connected. And
I feel like all it has done is divide us.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Now we're just in an echo chamber of our own
beliefs now fighting with each other. It's. I really genuinely as,
you know, I'm 47, so I'm a Gen X baby.
I'm an analog girl. I am.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
47. You look so young.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
I feel 100, but thank you.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
I mean, that's because we have young children.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
We do. And I'm an old mom, you know, like
on more than one occasion, people have referred to my
daughter as my granddaughter.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
No, come on. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
A guy who did our deck was like, uh, your,
your daughter or your granddaughter. I was like, sir, if
there is a question, just say daughter. Just shut your mouth.
And let me go.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
That's actually my granddaughter.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Oh my God. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
That's a compliment.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
You know, like what, like what, what do you say?
Like men, you wonder why no one wants to be
with you anymore. You wonder why we're all 50 something
percent part of a queer community. No, thank you.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
I'm good. I could never. It's a lot.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
The gasp. Not the giant gasp. Have you seen? There
was an Instagram video, which is how we communicate now,
going around with a woman who hired a man to
come serenade her girlfriend just to remind her of why
she would never want to be with a man. And
it's just him playing guitar and singing at her. And
(03:12):
her face is that.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
She's like, That is such a jump scare for me.
That's my worst nightmare.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
It was really funny. And I also love that that
dude was like, I'm down for this.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Oh my gosh. Can I tell you a funny story
before we, because we're going to jump all over the place.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
So I go, I went to a wedding this past
weekend in the Hamptons and I'm like twerking, you know,
some like Rihanna's coming on and then boom, like genuine.
It was like a mix up from the DJ. I
was fucking loving it. I was like really in like
all of my feels, having a good time. And the
(03:48):
audacity of a man to come into that circle and
start trying to grind on me. I'm like, sir. I
literally stood up. I had both hands on my knees
because I did this.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
No, thank you. Good for you. And everyone was just like.
First off, do I look like a woman who wants bumping,
grinding with you? No. It's a hell no. Okay, so
read the room. We're first off at a lesbian wedding. Oh,
my God. I'm like, girl, I don't want that thing
(04:24):
anywhere near the back of my anything.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
What is the thinking of this man? I wish I
could be in that man's head. Was he very drunk?
Speaker 1 (04:32):
I hope so.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
I hope so, too. That's his only excuse.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Because I, in front of everyone, I mean... I did the, no,
thank you.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
No, thank you.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Keep it.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
We need shirts that say that. Just a hand that says, no,
thank you.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Like merch.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Think about it, Ashley.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
I just had to tell you that. But before we
start all of the things.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
How did we get, I know, hypothetical. How did we
get into this? I mean, both of your parents were
in the industry, right?
Speaker 2 (05:02):
They were, but like not in a netball baby way.
Like my parents were Broadway actors. Then they got divorced
when I was super young. My mom quit acting and
became a voice teacher. She's got a really amazing voice
studio in New Jersey. She's had a lot of awesome people.
(05:23):
And then my dad did like a few more shows,
but then kind of not really anymore. So it wasn't
like people were clamoring to have me because of my parents. Mm-hmm.
If that makes sense. But yeah, certainly the like predisposition
for it, the love of performing and singing and telling
(05:46):
stories through, you know, song and all of it. Definitely.
I was born with that. Like, yeah, it's just the
way I came in. I can't imagine doing it. First
of all, I have no other skills, but like, I
cannot imagine doing that.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
I know.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
I mean, if it's like math or, or anything with computer.
Like I still am, so my husband, I'm like, can
you print this for me? He's like, you don't know
how to print. I'm like, no. Well, no, why would I?
Speaker 1 (06:14):
But it's like, be useful.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Do it.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
What do you mean? Just do it.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
He does. Good.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
We need more men like that. Just do it.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
He, I mean, look, this is my third marriage. So,
you know. You're Sophia, honey.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
You've got a lot to talk about.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
We do. We do. It's, you know, I got married
at 24 and then again at 27. And then my last, hopefully,
my third and final husband.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
Third time's the charm, honey.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
My friend was actually, like, she was like, Laura, even
if he turns out to be a murderer, like, you
got to stay. You can't. You got to stay. But
he's amazing. He, like, we have very switched gender roles.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Oh, great.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Like, I'm the dad, you know, in the eyes of America. Like,
we are, it's very, very swapped. He has, like, no
ego about it.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
He's he is a fucking gem. I feel so lucky.
And also. Also, when we were so we were watching
SNL and Brandi Carlile was on and playing and he
was like, are you OK?
Speaker 1 (07:19):
And I.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Was like, I was like, I am sexually attracted to
Brandi Carlile. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
OK, so that we got a type to got a type.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Well, and he was like. okay. He was like, is
that like a thing for you? And I was like,
it really is actually. And I'm realizing because that wasn't
a thing that was allowed. Like when I was in
high school, when I was in, you know, the eighties
and nineties growing up in New Jersey, there weren't out people.
There wasn't out anyone in my school. So it didn't
(07:54):
even feel like an option. And it wasn't until frankly,
so many of my girlfriends were like, surprise, I'm a
40 year old lesbian that I was like, We're allowed
to just do that?
Speaker 1 (08:05):
Do this.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
And so I told him that and he was like, okay,
all right. He fully took it in. And he was like,
this feels like a surprise to me. And I was like,
this feels like a surprise to me. And then for
my birthday, he gave me Brandi Carlile tickets and said,
why don't you bring a friend?
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Well, we love him.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
We really do love him.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
We really do. I know. Listen, that is a good move. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
It was. It was a really good move. So yeah,
he's but there's and he has no friends. He was
like he was like I he's got like four friends
because he was like every man that I talk to
is either complaining about his wife or being gross about
like a woman who is too young for him or
(08:56):
just like a blowhard or an asshole and it is
interesting to me. I'm like, well, I guess there is
a male loneliness epidemic also for guys who are just like,
I also think we suck. I also don't love this.
All of his friends, his, all his best friends are lesbians.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
Okay, well, good. We're going to fit right into the family.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
I mean, I feel really good about this. I can't
wait for this friendship is.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Blossoming very quickly. I know unexpectedly, but not shocked at all. No,
it's blooming. It's blooming. It's blooming. So you, you know,
besides having caught a great catch, let's just say, did
you grow up in New Jersey or did you grow
up in New York?
Speaker 2 (09:42):
No, I was born in New York and then my
parents got divorced. We moved to New Jersey and I
grew up here. And then when I was 18, I left,
went back to New York and started acting on Broadway. Wow.
So like I never went to college, you know, I
didn't have friends. I was never... like, high school was.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
You were in the streets.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
I was. In the streets of Broadway. Just everybody, just
jazz hands everywhere.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Oh, my God.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
But I didn't, like, really have friends from high school.
We didn't have similar interests. I was always, like, I
was never really a child. I was always, like, a
45-year-old gay man in a little girl's body.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
Oh, my gosh. And.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
So I get to New York, and I was not
a child actor. I auditioned for Liesel in The Sound
of Music on Broadway. They cast me instead as the
understudy to Maria. Wow. And then I eventually took over
that role, and I played opposite Ashlyn, a 70-year-old man.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
The jump player.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
He played Captain Funtrap. I'm actually going to send you
a picture of me and him together.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
Please.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
70 years old. Richard Chamberlain was his name. Loveliest man.
Could not have been lovelier. And also, can you imagine
that happening now?
Speaker 1 (10:59):
No.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
And 1997 doesn't feel that long ago to me. No
one was like, I don't know about this. It's fascinating
to me. And frankly, I'm grateful because it started my career.
But I was also like living in a studio apartment
at 18 years old with no girlfriends. And so I
was like, all right, well, I'm so lonely. Boys like me.
(11:26):
So I guess it's that. And then it was just like,
and I talk about this in my show, boyfriend after
boyfriend after boyfriend after boyfriend. Just, yeah. So I started
referring to my vagina as the portal to greatness. Oh,
(11:48):
my God. But I really think about it where I'm like,
what if I had kept the greatness for myself?
Speaker 1 (11:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Instead of wasting all of this fucking precious time baking myself,
folding myself into their lives, becoming whoever they wanted me
to be, reflecting back what they wanted to see, not
learning who I was. I didn't have hobbies. I, I,
my hobby was just like boys, I guess. And yeah,
(12:19):
I get it. It felt like what was my, it
felt like what was the option for me. Well, I met,
I met my best girlfriends when I was 30.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
Do you genuinely feel, cause I hear this so often
and I feel the same, like we were told to
be a certain way. We were told like, I could
shapeshift like a motherfucker into any situation, any group of people.
Like it is. And we're so taught that as young girls,
it's like, yeah, we can't ruffle feathers. Like we have
(12:54):
to be kind and polite and pretty and this and that.
And like, I was a nightmare as a child. And.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Tell me about that.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
What does that mean? Well, I just noticed my mom
always being like, I just had a big personality as
a young kid and I was bullish and I hate
when people told me to be something I didn't feel
like was in my insides or my DNA. So I
(13:23):
would start doing the complete opposite. Like my, you know,
my mom would be like, you have to put your hair.
I played on boys sports teams because my brother was
older than me and I wanted to hang with my brother.
I wanted to look like my brother. So I'd go
to the beach and I wouldn't wear like a bathing
suit or a top. And I'm like, okay, I'm like
12 now. Like I don't know if it's appropriate. But
(13:44):
I just didn't give up. Like I would rebel against
everything people told me to do because it felt like
so much pressure. And I didn't want to be the
little cute girl. I didn't want to date little boys.
Like I wanted to be one.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Yeah. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
It was like really weird for me. I, I mean,
there's no shocker I'm gay, but like, Oh, um, I
really tried to fit like the agenda that was put
on me at a very early age. And then I
would kind of shape shift a little, I would try
it and I'd be like, this is yuck. And then
I go back and then I try it. And I
(14:25):
just feel like now, cause I just turned 40 and
I'm in such a I'm getting what I want phase
and I'm not here to please and minimize myself anymore.
And I'm hearing it so much from so many women
in my like age. I'm having the best sex of
my life. My relationship is the best it's ever been.
(14:45):
It's like everything is just. And I don't know if
it's as we age, we stop giving a shit what
people think about us and start living the life we've imagined.
But it has taken so much to get here. Yep.
And it's interesting because you I just saw something that you.
(15:07):
you posted about, about people like talking about your fucking
appearance and getting into those comments.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
It just made me laugh because I was on my friend.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Give people context because they probably haven't heard it or
watched it.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
So my friend, Joe Marcos, or I say he's a comedian.
I was on his podcast and I don't know why
I looked through the comments. I guess I just wanted
to hurt myself. And I mean, I guess that's it.
I was like, well, I hate myself enough today. Let
me go to the internet. Oh, great. So I looked
at the comments and one guy was like, what did
(15:42):
Laura Benanti do to her face? She's unrecognizable. And I
was like, all I've done is get older. I haven't
done anything to my face. I just am not young anymore.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
And then it made me laugh because I was like,
I love the idea of me going into like a
plastic surgeon's office and being like, can you give me
the older face? I don't want the young face anymore.
Could you give me the one that's older now?
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
But I was like, fuck that guy. And I responded
and I wrote, we're allowed to get older. Good for you.
And he deleted the comment.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
Yeah, because he probably got eaten alive and he deserves it.
And you guys, y'all men wonder why you... But it's
women too.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
Women are doing it. Oh, women are mean as hell.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
We can never win.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
Women cannot win. We cannot win. We can never win.
I'm exhausted. Either we're shamed for getting something done to
our face. We're shamed if we don't. I'm so tired
of it. And I'm in perimenopause.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
And.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
I do think there is something about like all of
my estrogen levels dropping. Like as I lose estrogen, I
gain like this witchy wisdom where my body is like
supplanting the hormone where it's just whispering to me like,
I don't.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
Give a fuck about them. Fuck them.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
And it's been really fascinating. I also realized so much.
I have spent my entire life looking at myself through
the lens of the male gaze. what do I look
like to men? How do I seem to men?
Speaker 1 (17:24):
And isn't that so fucked?
Speaker 2 (17:27):
It's, I mean, it's literally tale as old as time.
I mean, that's how women survived. I do think it
is our, it's a genetic component that it's cellular. It
is in our bones because we had to align ourselves
with the patriarchy to survive.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
Correct.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
You know? And so it's interesting to me that now
all of a sudden we don't need men. we can
choose to be with men that so many women are like,
I don't actually choose it. I don't, I don't choose it.
I don't need it. And I don't choose it. And
they're in an uproar about it where I want to
go like, then fix it.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
If you want us so badly, then fix it, fix yourself.
And I get that there's like a sublimated warrior spirit.
You know, we are not defending ourselves from tigers anymore.
So it's got to go someplace for them, you know, and,
but it can't go where it's going. And it's, it's,
(18:28):
it's been, and this is, this is literally everything we're
talking about is my show.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
It is my, Oh, I love this. I love this.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
I cannot, where I recall, I call myself and I
feel like Sophia will relate to this. I call myself
a recovering ingenue because when you play ingenues, Your whole life.
And you don't have to be an actress to be
playing an ingenue.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
You know, I played one on stage, in TV, and
in real life.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
Once you start to give that up, and some of
it is choice, and some of it is simply getting older.
When I am now in conversations with men, they speak
to me differently now than they did when I was 20.
They gave me more respect when I was 20 than
they do now. Because the element of wanting to fuck
me is gone.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
And so they are less interested in what I have
to say. And I'm like, oh my God, I wish
I had known when I was 20 years old that
older men weren't infatuated with me because I was fascinating.
It's because women their own age couldn't stand them.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
That part. Say that part out loud. Stay tuned. I'll
be back in just a moment after this brief message
from our sponsors. I do say this genuinely because you
and I both share this connection. You've you've grown up in,
in the Broadway space. I've grown up in the sports section,
(19:51):
but what I know that ties us both together is
the scrutiny. And we've been evaluated our whole fucking life.
And what people don't realize is how exhausting that is
on top of everything we're already talking about. Like everything
was measured. Oh, Were you enough? Did you perform well?
(20:13):
Did you win? Did you get the standing? Did you
get the award?
Speaker 2 (20:16):
And were you hot while you did it?
Speaker 1 (20:19):
I'm just like, I'm curious of how this feels now
in this new kind of phase. You're doing a comedy tour,
which is very different. It's a live performance, which you
clearly know you've excelled. You've done incredible work, incredible things
to move audiences. Is it finally fucking nice to do
(20:40):
it on your own terms and say whatever you want?
It's a one woman show. You could do whatever you want.
You could say whatever you want. You're a 47 year
old who's lived so much fucking life. You've dropped the rope.
And like, I'm curious how this feels now where you've
had a lifelong career of being evaluated and playing in
(21:00):
these certain roles. But now like you're doing it on
your own terms. I'm curious like what that feels like.
are you finally like dropping the rope and unleashing so much?
That feels so good.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
It feels really good. And it feels really scary because
it is also like a massive shift for my audience.
So the people who know me, know me as the ingenue.
They know me as, and even though, you know, I've
always done, I've always been funny, you know, um, it's
(21:35):
been in a palatable way. Yes. And so what's been
very hard with this comedy show, I shouldn't say very hard.
What is, what is challenging about this comedy show is
some people will show up thinking I'm going to sing
the sound of music and then I'm singing, we don't
want to see your dicks unless we say we do. So,
and they're just like, Whoa. Yeah. It's a call response,
(21:57):
by the way, um, that I make the men sing
with me. But so I think that is tricky because
I don't want to offend people. I don't want to
trick them. I am very clear. I'm like, the show
is not a musical. It's got original songs, but it
is 16 plus. It is rated R. There is adult content.
Like I'm not giving you grateful sweet pea. You know,
(22:22):
it is the truth of my life experience. And I've
had such a privileged life. Like I know that. And also,
I've been through some shit. A lot of it's self-inflicted. Yes.
Which I think is important to note. You know, I
say my show is like it's a cautionary tale for
(22:42):
young women. And also a love letter to moms and
like my perimenopausal Gen X witches.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Of course, you know, so. I, it is scary in
that if you're playing a character on a show and
people are like, I don't like that show. And you're like, well,
I didn't write it. Even if they don't like the character,
you're like, okay, whatever. If people don't like my show,
they don't like me. Yeah. But that's the whole point
of my show. It's about being a recovering people pleaser.
And the thing, and I think we also have this
(23:12):
in common, the thing that has it, my people pleasing
recovery program is my children. Because I will never make
them happy all of the time and they will never
like me all of the time. And it cannot be
their job to like me all of the time. It
is my job not to need them to like me
and to be able to hear hard things, to be
(23:33):
able to hear I hate you and say, well, I
love you.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
You know, to not be so afraid of my daughter's
strength that I put them in the same box that
I allowed myself to be put into. How do I
help them harness the energy you were talking about earlier
where you were just like, I cannot be this. And
then you would go be it for a little while
and then come back and be like, that's not true
to me. How do we remove the obstacles from our
(23:59):
daughter's way, our children's way, in order to reveal their
best and strongest selves? And I can't do that if
I am not. I cannot give them what I don't have.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
It's so true. And you just said that so beautifully. Yeah.
And that's the whole point, right? And before we jump
into parenting, because I definitely want to get into that,
I'm curious why you chose the title Nobody Cares, because
you have been very open about being a people pleaser
and you felt like as a child you were the
ugly duckling, which I find that hard to believe. You're gorgeous.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
I will send a picture. You will see. You will see.
You will know. You will feel for me.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
I just love this so much. But where did you,
why did you decide on Nobody Cares? Are you just
in this fucking phase in your life or like, tell
me about it.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
It actually started because Audible, the Audible platform, they reached
out to me about writing a show. They do this
thing called Audible Theater where they do live theatrical performances
at the Minetta Lane Theater and then they audio record them,
like almost like a radio play. And so they commissioned
me to write it. And as I was writing it,
(25:11):
I was like, nobody cares. Like, who the fuck cares
about what a middle-aged white lady has to say? Like,
I don't know if mine is the voice we're clamoring for.
And I was having such a hard time writing it.
And then I was like, what if I just fucking
call it Nobody Cares? What if I write, what if
I name the title and I release myself from it
needing it to be important? And I just write down
(25:34):
what is important to me. And The version of it
that is on their platform is very different than what
it has evolved into. It's 75 minutes. It's, you know,
I didn't have time really to work on it. I just,
I didn't get to tour it before we recorded it.
So I didn't get to do it in front of
human beings until the night we recorded it. So I've
(25:56):
done a lot of work on it now. It's much funnier.
It's cleaner. It's tighter. Yeah. Um, there's new songs, but
I'm still proud of what, what is out there. But
to me, it's like a B and I feel like
I do genuinely feel like the show is now is
like an A. Yeah. Um, but or an A minus, uh,
(26:17):
I don't even remember what the original question was.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
Well, I was just curious of why. And here we are. Listen,
I fucking get it. This is my mom brain every day.
But I was just curious of why you decided to,
you know. Oh, yes.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
The title of Nobody Cares.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
The title. Yeah. Because I imagined there was something in it,
which I love the storytelling piece of it.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
But it also became ultimately where I was going through
my life, all of the things that fucking tortured me.
The shit where I was like, am I pretty enough?
Am I thin enough? Am I talented enough? Am I
smart enough? You know, am I enough? All of this stuff,
worrying about that thing that I said, you know, three
years ago to a person I'll never see again, waking
(26:59):
up in the middle of the night stressing about that.
Do these people like me? Even people I don't like
wanting them to like me.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
Isn't it crazy?
Speaker 2 (27:07):
And then I was like, you know what? Nobody fucking cares.
Nobody cares. We're all thinking about ourselves. We are all
the stars of our own movies. I have to let
this go. I cannot live for what other people think
of me anymore. I am exhausted. What a waste.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
That part. that part and it's so it is so
true when you say that because no one is thinking
about it more than we are and i love to
tie that back to like the nobody cares piece i
wish i could have carried that with me a lot
because it does it does cost something like for two
(27:48):
performers because i consider us two performers for so much
of our life people have no idea how much it
costs to put yourself in those positions to be a
performer because it's directly feedback all the time. Not only
from the people coaching you, the people you're performing with,
(28:09):
your teammates, like it's such a fucking loophole of wondering,
am I worthy enough? Did I get that right? Like
it costs so much. Do you know what it doesn't cost?
Anything to be kind. And people have fucking forgotten that
and fallen on their head all the time. And you
(28:30):
speak so much. We have young kids. And I want
to transition into this because I do think it's so important.
You've been outspoken about social media and how harmful it
is for young girls and how it will continue to
be harmful to And this vicious cycle of these young
(28:54):
kids figuring out who the fuck they are while so
many people now have these stupid things and these keyboard
warriors who put these thoughts in young girls' head. Talking
about the beginning of the show of like there's just
so much at stake right now for our young kids.
children being developed, especially young girls, because now we're getting
(29:17):
back into the skinny phase. We're getting back into the
beauty phase of you have to look this kind of way,
which I thought we were getting out of it. I
thought we were finally body positivity, like all bodies come
with different shapes and sizes and all the things. And
we have really gotten right back into the shitty parts
of our culture. And I'm curious, like what you're process
(29:41):
is when raising children and this current landscape, because you
and I grew up knowing we were fucking ripped apart.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
We were ripped apart. And so with Sophia, we talk
about it all the time and it's like scary having
a five-year-old daughter. And I'm like, I'm like, you're going
to get a fucking dial-up phone or a flip phone,
and you better be lucky for it. Because this is toxic. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
Well, there is, I think, a movement now. Look, I
don't know how many scientific studies need to show how
deeply detrimental social media is to all of us, and
especially developing brains. It's like cigarettes. You know, for however
many years, people were just... just smoked. And the tobacco
(30:32):
companies knew they were killing people and didn't care. I
don't know what it's going to take for all of
us to say, we've seen enough studies. We're done contributing
to killing our children. We're done. And it's a really
hard thing to do because there's peer pressure involved. If
your kids' friends are on a text chain and they
don't have a phone, then they're othered. But I do
(30:54):
think there is a wide movement Now of parents, you know,
your age and my age that are committing to not
giving their children devices at or at least social media
until they there's a thing in Montclair called wait till eight.
And it's basically like, don't give your children phone phones
until they're in eighth grade. Yeah. And then even get
(31:18):
a bark phone, which you monitor constantly. And there's no,
you can text. It's a landline. Like you can text
and you can call. You can look at the weather.
You got a calculator.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
You can listen to music. You're not browsing the web.
You are not on Instagram. You're not doing any of
those things. But, you know, I will sometimes spiral into
a place where I am just like, what are, what
have we done to our children? What are we doing
to our children? They are sent in sensory overload all day.
Of the time. All of the time. There are screens everywhere.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
Everywhere.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
Even a billboard now is a screen. You know, there is,
they don't have time to be bored. They don't have
time to look out, you know, they don't look out
the window. They don't journal. They don't lay in their
backyard and look at the clouds. They have a thousand
fucking playdates and a million different teams and dance classes.
And it's insane.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
Like let them fucking breathe too.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
And.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
Man, I just I and I also think, you know,
you were what you say is so true that we
have been constantly evaluated our whole lives. And motherhood is
a whole other set of being evaluated, of being judged,
you know, and it's a whole new level of it.
And I am constantly feeling like I'm doing it wrong.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
You know, I constantly feel or I'm told that I'm
doing it wrong.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
You know?
Speaker 1 (32:47):
Well, you know, here we go back, Laura, we go
back to what we were just talking about. Women carry
this insane pressure to be exceptional and perfect. I have
to be pretty. I have to be skinny. I have
to be liked. The boy has to like me, right?
I got to be picked, right?
Speaker 2 (33:02):
Chosen. You have to be chosen.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
I have to be chosen. I have to be a
great mother. I have to be a great partner. I
have to be great at work, but I have to
also be emotionally available. I have to look good. I
have to keep the house together. And then somewhere in
all that, I'm supposed to make it look like effortlessly,
you know, like it should, it should, that's, I'm fucking exhausted.
I'll tell you, being a mom has been so humbling.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
My kids have, it has been so humbling.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
I just like, I appreciate how honest you have been
in your work about like allowing people to be more
honest about it. Because I think these screens and I
think these movies have absolutely brainwashed all of us. We're
not living in reality. I mean, half the time, I'm
lucky if I'm out of my PJs.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
I don't have it all together. I always think I'm failing.
I mean, it's a real, it's really hard. Yes. It
is really hard. Yeah, it is.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
And I don't want it to be. As hard for
our daughters. And, you know, never has there been a
greater divide than Gen Z gender. So, you know, boys
are becoming increasingly right wing, increasingly misogynist. And part of
(34:33):
that is because of what they are fed in their algorithm.
There was a study done where a woman created 10
accounts of boys age like 13 to 26. And within
48 hours of creating those accounts, she started getting fed racist, misogynist,
(34:53):
the Joe Rogans of the world. And she was like,
if I had a developing brain, because the brain is
not fully developed until you're 27 years old, if I
had a developing brain and this is what I was consuming,
I would also think I'm under attack. I would also
think that you know, that women are the reason that
(35:16):
I'm suffering, that brown people are the reason I am suffering,
that trans people are the reason I am suffering. We
are not all watching the same news. We are not
all watching the same world and then making decisions based
on that. And I just think that is so incredibly dangerous.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
Dangerous.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
And I don't know the answer to, and protecting isn't
the right word, I don't know the answer to how
we help our children navigate it.
Speaker 1 (35:45):
I don't know. We're barely navigating. Yes. Like, yes. And
I say this genuinely. I'm on social media. I'm like,
I don't know what's real and what's not with AI anymore. Oh,
I'm like, oh, my God, honey. Did you just see
this bear come up to blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And this like kid, she was like, honey, it's AI.
And I'm like, fuck. Like, I know if I can't
(36:06):
even tell that, you know. The difference? I can't imagine
these kids can. And then that becomes believable. Stay tuned.
I'll be back in just a moment after this brief
message from our sponsors.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
When I was growing up, I saw a picture of
myself maybe 10 times a year. Oh, yeah. I saw
my school picture. I saw the photos that my friends
and I took to the pharmacy to develop. And that
was it.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
That was it?
Speaker 2 (36:40):
I did not look into a camera to do a selfie.
I did not have filters. Filters. I did not look
at other people who look like fucking robots because of
these filters. The amount of input we receive, not only
from the external world, but from our own selves. We
(37:01):
view ourselves so much, even on a Zoom. we're talking.
I can still fucking see myself. Get away from me, me.
Let me breathe me.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
You know?
Speaker 2 (37:15):
And my four-year-old the other day was like, I'm going
to take a selfie and post it on Instagram. She's four.
It's not something we talk about in our house. She
was like, I think I saw it in a TV show.
And it's hard. My older daughter's nine. So she's watching like,
you know, nine like sitcoms that nine year olds watch
where there's phones.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
Yeah, of course.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
But, you know, I saw someone say and this made
me laugh. They were like, what if it's an Amish community,
but it's the 90s? What if we all fucking agree
to live in communities that it's just the 90s? We
can have flip phones. Fine.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
Yeah, I'd love that.
Speaker 2 (37:54):
But give me a map quest. Fucking let me print
out those directions. Let me tape them to the seat
next to me.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
Oh, my gosh. Remember it was like two streets. I
don't know the names, but go left and you'll see
a gas station. And then once you hit the gas station,
you know, you make that and then you keep going.
Then you'll see a playground. And then once you know
you're on the right track when you hit the. What
happened to that? It was like an adventure.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
We're using our brains, too. You know, there are all
these studies, too, now that fucking all of these, like, GPS,
it's affecting our brains in terms of, like, Alzheimer's.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
We're not using the synapses that will keep us protected
as we get older. So, and here's the thing. It's
not going away. It's not unless we do, frankly, and
I think we should consider this, create our 90s haven.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
We have to.
Speaker 2 (38:41):
We got to make, we got to blockbuster.
Speaker 1 (38:43):
Right. Oh my God.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
We're going to have blockbusters.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
Remember when you used to walk up? Do you remember
the smell? Yes.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
Of course.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
I fuck. Remember the stress of bringing it back on time?
Speaker 2 (38:57):
Yes. And rewinding it. You better fucking rewind it.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
Oh, but that's the thing too.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
Simple courtesy. Rewind that shit.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
I miss that shit so much.
Speaker 2 (39:09):
And then your neighbor.
Speaker 1 (39:10):
You know, you had to open it. Yes.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
Crack.
Speaker 1 (39:13):
Open it. Yes. I remember that was so much fun.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
You'd go with your whole family.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
You would fight about it.
Speaker 1 (39:24):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (39:25):
And always there was some neighbor who came out of
that back room. Oh, yeah. where you were like hello
yep okay completely so it again it's community it's being
in the physical space with people fucking drinking in the
woods around a bonfire now these kids are just texting each.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
Other from their rooms oh my god drink around a
bonfire And do you remember everyone would be like, where's
the hot spot this weekend?
Speaker 2 (39:53):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
It's like you changed it because you didn't want, you know,
the police couldn't figure it out and find your local spot.
You just kept moving it. It was an adventure for everyone.
Speaker 2 (40:02):
We would hang out at Pathmark. We would go to
fucking Pathmark and sit and just hang out. Go to
a pizza place and be there for four hours eating
one slice of pizza between all of us.
Speaker 1 (40:14):
And also screens were just like, let's go to the
movie theater. We're about to have our first kiss. No
one was even watching. No one even was watching. I
was like, Oh, I'm going to bring Tyler to the
movies because I'm going to hold his hand. And when
the lights are really low before the end of the movie,
first kiss with him.
Speaker 2 (40:36):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (40:36):
No one can see it.
Speaker 2 (40:38):
Oh my God. I do as an aside that my
first kiss was, So gross. There was so much saliva
happening in his mouth. It was basically as if he
just like hocked a loogie into my mouth. Then he
pulled away and he fucking winked at me. No.
Speaker 1 (40:53):
Did you have a string of spit though when you
pulled away?
Speaker 2 (40:56):
Basically. I was just like, it's just like he basically
poured his spit into my mouth and then just wagged
his tongue around and then winked. How dare you, sir?
Speaker 1 (41:06):
How dare you? How?
Speaker 2 (41:08):
Get away from me.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
This?
Speaker 2 (41:09):
I was like, this is terrible. I never want to
do this again. This is horrible. But yeah, no, I just.
And what's interesting to me, too, is on social media,
a lot of the most popular videos among Gen Z
are video home movies of the 90s. They are nostalgic
for a time they never knew because on a certain level,
(41:30):
they know that it was innocent. And look, the 90s
weren't perfect. Obviously, there was a lot of shit going down.
I don't know how many times we had to be
reminded not to get into unmarked vans. You know, there
was a lot going on also. I'm not saying it
was perfect, but I do think it was the last
time where kids could at least remain innocent for longer.
(41:53):
They even, we looked like children. I look at pictures
of me at 14 and I'm like, and now I
see pictures of girls at 14 and I'm like, what? Well,
they're like, yes, they're Kardashians.
Speaker 1 (42:07):
Yes. Yes. Yeah. I didn't have a fucking push-up bra.
Speaker 2 (42:13):
What was that? Also, my parents would have been like,
get back in this motherfucking house.
Speaker 1 (42:18):
Can you imagine? Yeah. My, oh my God, my dad,
no fucking way. But back in our day, like dress codes,
remember you had to put your hands down? I was
a tall, lanky fucking thing.
Speaker 2 (42:31):
Me too.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
So when I put my hands down, they were to
my like, tip of my kneecap me too that's the
way the dress code worked now I see I'm.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
Wearing shorts yeah I know little shirts.
Speaker 1 (42:44):
And pants and I mean like.
Speaker 2 (42:46):
I get it we should never never and I'm also
like women should be allowed to wear what they want
like we should be able to be allowed to wear
what we want without being like is somebody gonna assault
me like.
Speaker 1 (42:58):
That should absolutely be able to happen totally different conversation.
Speaker 2 (43:01):
But when you are 13 years old And what is
being marketed to you is that when it's almost as
if you do not have a choice. You know, when
I think of, I think of Brittany and Lindsay Lohan and,
you know, all of these young girls who are sexualized,
we destroyed them. We destroyed them.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:22):
And I just, how, how do we in a, in a,
in a world where Our current administration is rounding up
wild horses with helicopters, selling them for $ 25, calling themselves cowboys.
How do we fucking protect our children? And we cannot
(43:44):
do it alone. We have to organize. I just, I
really believe that we have to organize.
Speaker 1 (43:49):
And the only people who will save us are women.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (43:52):
And here's the other problem. We're still being punished differently
for being outspoken. Yes. I... Like, especially in this administration,
I'm like, I'm seeing the way that man, I won't
even use his name, is speaking to people. And I'm like,
(44:13):
can you imagine what he is like behind closed doors
if he's willing to speak to women this way, let alone, like,
his wife or, like, it is... so fucking crazy to
me that people think that this is okay, but we're
so desensitized. Like we fucking have no concept of reality anymore.
(44:35):
We have zero concept. People don't understand how words carry
weight and there's real consequences. Like I have two black
children and black people are being killed and hanging from
fucking trees right now because of the shit we're putting
out and the things we're saying. And it's like, we're like, okay, well,
(44:59):
I'm just going to keep going on with my day today.
And I'm like, when are people going to wake the
fuck up?
Speaker 2 (45:07):
Yes. I do think this is part and parcel of
accessibility to education.
Speaker 1 (45:17):
A hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (45:20):
And we... are a civilized nation where in order to
get an education, you have to be rich. Tell me
how that is not an oligarchy. Explain to me how
people are supposed to be able to confidently make decisions
(45:46):
if they are not taught critical thinking.
Speaker 1 (45:48):
That part.
Speaker 2 (45:49):
So not only are we banning books... Let's even put
that aside. Let's put aside all of the extra bullshit
that's happening. Marginalized communities do not have access to education.
And even if they do public education, you're spending $ 120, 000
to send your kid to college and then they leave
(46:12):
college and there's no fucking jobs for them. It's crazy.
You know, it's crazy.
Speaker 1 (46:16):
So I don't.
Speaker 2 (46:18):
Blame people for being angry. And the best thing to
do when you're angry is blame someone else.
Speaker 1 (46:23):
Correct.
Speaker 2 (46:24):
And so for me, the blue collar workers who voted
for Trump are less nefarious to me than the rich
fucking motherfuckers.
Speaker 1 (46:36):
That part.
Speaker 2 (46:37):
With education who are doing it for their own gain.
Speaker 1 (46:41):
Correct.
Speaker 2 (46:42):
Correct.
Speaker 1 (46:43):
Their own gain and their own back pockets.
Speaker 2 (46:45):
Correct. These people are doing it because they think it's
going to save their life. And, you know, and I
do think as a lifelong Democrat, we have done a
very bad job of explaining how we actually support the
people who are voting for Trump, who are voting against
their best interests. They are not going to see it
because they don't have critical thinking skills. And I do
(47:08):
think it's by design. I think that if we keep
people stupid, They keep these people stupid. These people stay rich.
Speaker 1 (47:14):
Well, that's why we're removing books and burning them and
cutting some of the most precious antique books out there.
Speaker 2 (47:21):
Oh, my God.
Speaker 1 (47:22):
So we can filter it into AI. What? So we
can change it. To kill a mockingbird?
Speaker 2 (47:27):
You're telling me children can't read to kill a mockingbird?
Speaker 1 (47:30):
It is crazy behavior. As someone, especially because I was
born and raised in Florida. Yeah. Oh, my God. That
is like a different place.
Speaker 2 (47:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:40):
Education wise. Yeah. Like all of it. It is, it
is what people say.
Speaker 2 (47:48):
I feel like we all want to belong. So if
we are by nature pack animals, I do think they,
I do think that this MAGA movement has done an
excellent job of creating community. It's like a gang, you know,
(48:08):
I feel like There is this feeling of belonging. The
red hats alone, you know, the Trump flags. I would
know who had a fucking Biden flag waving in their.
Speaker 1 (48:23):
Never.
Speaker 2 (48:24):
An Obama flag. And, you know, you mentioned something earlier
about how we're back to skinny. There is a direct
correlation between regime and female beauty standards. Correct. And every
single time it is. What we're dealing with right now,
women get skinnier and skinnier and skinnier and skinnier because
(48:45):
they want us to fucking disappear. And it is dangerous
to be loud. It is physically dangerous to be loud.
But what the fuck else are we going to do?
Speaker 1 (49:00):
It's always, but also when you look at the history,
it always comes from us. The change always comes from us.
We carry all the weight. It's just exactly the circle
where we started. The pressure of what we carry as women.
It's like we have to fix it. And we have
young children, young girls that we want to leave this
(49:21):
world better. And right now it's not. What my five-year-old
is going to live in is so dangerous and so toxic.
That's a lot more pressure for me to carry because
I have to set the foundation for of what is acceptable.
You talk about education, you talk about all these things,
(49:42):
but they spend more time in school than they do
with me.
Speaker 2 (49:44):
Totally.
Speaker 1 (49:45):
Which is fucking scary. I know. For me.
Speaker 2 (49:48):
I think about that a lot.
Speaker 1 (49:49):
And I do too. And that's why I'm in important
places where my kids have, you know, it's progressive places. They,
it's very biracial and, you know, there's all different walks
of life because I, I fear what this can potentially
do long-term and it will. And it's like, it puts
(50:10):
a lot more pressure on us. And that's the hard
part of being a parent right now in this current,
forget being queer, color, all of the different things. Raising
kids right now, I feel it. And I feel bad
for parents because it's a lot to carry and it's
a fuck ton of pressure. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (50:30):
My mom said that to me. She was like, I
literally cannot imagine raising you guys During the time that
you are raising your children. I would be terrified every day.
You know, and something you were saying about how it's
always been women, and it's always been black and brown women.
Speaker 1 (50:46):
That part.
Speaker 2 (50:47):
You know?
Speaker 1 (50:48):
Always.
Speaker 2 (50:50):
And that is where I do feel like intersectional feminism
is so deeply important. And it is time for white
women to stand on the front lines and go, please rest.
You know, this is maybe this protest is maybe not
a safe space for you.
Speaker 1 (51:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (51:11):
You know, so, you know, there's so much to conquer.
There always is. I can sometimes get into a space
of just like being just straight up despondent. And that
is a that is paralyzing. And we can do nothing
from a state of paralyzation, like the fight, flight, freeze
(51:31):
or fawn.
Speaker 1 (51:32):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (51:33):
You know. It's got to be fight. But how do
we do it in a way that at least I can,
I'll only speak for myself, that I'm not like the
walking wounded in my home where I'm not, my energy
is not me shaking and angry and reading the news.
And how does one compartmentalize that for your children's one
(51:55):
precious childhood? And that is where, and self-care is such a,
it's such a gross word Because I think people are like,
nails are self-care. And I'm like, maybe that is for you.
But great. For me, it's like meditation and getting myself
(52:17):
in a psychological space where I'm not coming into my
home and our children are going like, ooh.
Speaker 1 (52:24):
That's important.
Speaker 2 (52:26):
Then I am impatient with them. And the impatience is fear.
The impatience is going like, don't act like that because
that's not safe or don't do that because that's not safe. Yeah.
Like what we were talking about earlier, you know, with
you when you were younger and I'm sure your parents
being like, put your fucking shirt on. It's the beach. Yeah.
(52:48):
And you're like, that's not who I am though. So
how do we weigh that? How do we weigh what
is safe for our children physically and what is safe
for them emotionally?
Speaker 1 (53:00):
Yeah. But I think what you're doing right now, if
I were to tie this whole conversation in a bow,
I do think so much of our life has been
about performance.
Speaker 2 (53:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (53:12):
But I do feel like this chapter is about permission.
And what a great gift to our children. Permission to
fucking age. Permission to change. Permission to be ambitious, but
also tired at the same time.
Speaker 2 (53:29):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (53:31):
I just think it's so beautiful to be able to
teach our children that, to be sensitive, but also to
be strong and to be funny and tell the truth.
And also maybe the most important thing is permission to
disappoint people along the way.
Speaker 2 (53:45):
Woof. Including yourself. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (53:48):
And maybe that's the tie here when you talk about
nobody cares, right?
Speaker 2 (53:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (53:53):
It's not cynical. Maybe it's the freedom. Maybe it's the
freedom part. And I think that's why this conversation is
so beautiful. And I love what you're doing and how
you're opening a different side of you, a different performative
side of you that a lot of people will be
able to connect with in a real way. So I just,
(54:15):
you know, I could be here all day with you,
but I want you, I want to say thank you
because I do, it's a lot of bravery to be yourself.
It's easy to be someone else on stage.
Speaker 2 (54:26):
Well, I feel similarly about you. Thank you. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (54:29):
Well, thank you so much for being on Wide Open.
Thank you for being so vulnerable. And also, thank you
for fucking just being yourself in all of these seasons, right?
It's like, you know, I've been able to follow you
and I've, you know, I just really respect it. And
I think sometimes we do have a beautiful gift and
obligation when we become something of how we choose to
(54:53):
show up and serve other people and not And I think,
you know, we have to continue standing on the right
side of change. And it's more shit on our plate
as we navigate life and kids and motherhood and perimenopause. Like, fuck,
that's a whole other conversation no one talks about. We're
carrying the weight of the world while trying to figure
(55:13):
out our own bodies that we haven't been educated on
or researched or have access to the things we need
when our body is going through war. Yeah. I love
that you're openly talking about these things and I think
it's important and our children are going to be able
to see these things and understand like the complexities of
(55:35):
womanhood and life and what we carry. So thanks for
being on the show today.
Speaker 2 (55:40):
Oh my gosh. It's my pleasure.
Speaker 1 (55:42):
All right, everyone. Well, thanks so much for being on
the show, Laura. And thanks everyone for tuning in to
another episode of Wide Open. And as always, we'll see
you next week. Bye everyone. Bye. Bye.
Hi, everyone, and welcome back to another episode of Wide Open.
I'm your host, Ashlyn Harris. And today we have a
very special guest, Laura Benanti. Welcome to the show. Laura
is an actor, singer, writer, Tony Award winning everything you
can possibly think of. I mean, at this point, I'm
just like, You were born to do this clearly because
(00:31):
I read up on your parents that this has been
in the family for a long time, honey. But now,
now we're starting a comedy show, Nobody Cares, which I'm
like really enjoying a lot of these soundbites that I'm seeing.
I have not seen you live yet, but we're going
to change that. And we're neighbors.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
I know. We're going to be new friends.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
We're having new play dates.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
We're talking at schools.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Before we started this podcast. And I'm like, we got
things to talk about.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
We really do.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
A lot of things. Oh, my gosh. So welcome to
the show. Thank you for coming on Wide Open.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Thank you. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
You know, for everyone, you know, a lot of queer
people here, so that doesn't shock anyone. But we like
to just talk shit.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Great.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
We're not going to hear– we know you have a
great resume. We know. We all know how great you are.
We just want to know who you are. And I
think that is something we're all– connection has really gotten scarce,
let's just say.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Yeah. It's interesting to me because I feel like the
Internet and social media was designed and like positioned to
us like interconnectedness. Like you now we're all connected. And
I feel like all it has done is divide us.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Now we're just in an echo chamber of our own
beliefs now fighting with each other. It's. I really genuinely as,
you know, I'm 47, so I'm a Gen X baby.
I'm an analog girl. I am.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
47. You look so young.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
I feel 100, but thank you.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
I mean, that's because we have young children.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
We do. And I'm an old mom, you know, like
on more than one occasion, people have referred to my
daughter as my granddaughter.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
No, come on. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
A guy who did our deck was like, uh, your,
your daughter or your granddaughter. I was like, sir, if
there is a question, just say daughter. Just shut your mouth.
And let me go.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
That's actually my granddaughter.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Oh my God. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
That's a compliment.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
You know, like what, like what, what do you say?
Like men, you wonder why no one wants to be
with you anymore. You wonder why we're all 50 something
percent part of a queer community. No, thank you.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
I'm good. I could never. It's a lot.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
The gasp. Not the giant gasp. Have you seen? There
was an Instagram video, which is how we communicate now,
going around with a woman who hired a man to
come serenade her girlfriend just to remind her of why
she would never want to be with a man. And
it's just him playing guitar and singing at her. And
(03:12):
her face is that.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
She's like, That is such a jump scare for me.
That's my worst nightmare.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
It was really funny. And I also love that that
dude was like, I'm down for this.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Oh my gosh. Can I tell you a funny story
before we, because we're going to jump all over the place.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
So I go, I went to a wedding this past
weekend in the Hamptons and I'm like twerking, you know,
some like Rihanna's coming on and then boom, like genuine.
It was like a mix up from the DJ. I
was fucking loving it. I was like really in like
all of my feels, having a good time. And the
(03:48):
audacity of a man to come into that circle and
start trying to grind on me. I'm like, sir. I
literally stood up. I had both hands on my knees
because I did this.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
No, thank you. Good for you. And everyone was just like.
First off, do I look like a woman who wants bumping,
grinding with you? No. It's a hell no. Okay, so
read the room. We're first off at a lesbian wedding. Oh,
my God. I'm like, girl, I don't want that thing
(04:24):
anywhere near the back of my anything.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
What is the thinking of this man? I wish I
could be in that man's head. Was he very drunk?
Speaker 1 (04:32):
I hope so.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
I hope so, too. That's his only excuse.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Because I, in front of everyone, I mean... I did the, no,
thank you.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
No, thank you.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Keep it.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
We need shirts that say that. Just a hand that says, no,
thank you.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Like merch.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Think about it, Ashley.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
I just had to tell you that. But before we
start all of the things.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
How did we get, I know, hypothetical. How did we
get into this? I mean, both of your parents were
in the industry, right?
Speaker 2 (05:02):
They were, but like not in a netball baby way.
Like my parents were Broadway actors. Then they got divorced
when I was super young. My mom quit acting and
became a voice teacher. She's got a really amazing voice
studio in New Jersey. She's had a lot of awesome people.
(05:23):
And then my dad did like a few more shows,
but then kind of not really anymore. So it wasn't
like people were clamoring to have me because of my parents. Mm-hmm.
If that makes sense. But yeah, certainly the like predisposition
for it, the love of performing and singing and telling
(05:46):
stories through, you know, song and all of it. Definitely.
I was born with that. Like, yeah, it's just the
way I came in. I can't imagine doing it. First
of all, I have no other skills, but like, I
cannot imagine doing that.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
I know.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
I mean, if it's like math or, or anything with computer.
Like I still am, so my husband, I'm like, can
you print this for me? He's like, you don't know
how to print. I'm like, no. Well, no, why would I?
Speaker 1 (06:14):
But it's like, be useful.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Do it.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
What do you mean? Just do it.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
He does. Good.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
We need more men like that. Just do it.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
He, I mean, look, this is my third marriage. So,
you know. You're Sophia, honey.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
You've got a lot to talk about.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
We do. We do. It's, you know, I got married
at 24 and then again at 27. And then my last, hopefully,
my third and final husband.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
Third time's the charm, honey.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
My friend was actually, like, she was like, Laura, even
if he turns out to be a murderer, like, you
got to stay. You can't. You got to stay. But
he's amazing. He, like, we have very switched gender roles.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Oh, great.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Like, I'm the dad, you know, in the eyes of America. Like,
we are, it's very, very swapped. He has, like, no
ego about it.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
He's he is a fucking gem. I feel so lucky.
And also. Also, when we were so we were watching
SNL and Brandi Carlile was on and playing and he
was like, are you OK?
Speaker 1 (07:19):
And I.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Was like, I was like, I am sexually attracted to
Brandi Carlile. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
OK, so that we got a type to got a type.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Well, and he was like. okay. He was like, is
that like a thing for you? And I was like,
it really is actually. And I'm realizing because that wasn't
a thing that was allowed. Like when I was in
high school, when I was in, you know, the eighties
and nineties growing up in New Jersey, there weren't out people.
There wasn't out anyone in my school. So it didn't
(07:54):
even feel like an option. And it wasn't until frankly,
so many of my girlfriends were like, surprise, I'm a
40 year old lesbian that I was like, We're allowed
to just do that?
Speaker 1 (08:05):
Do this.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
And so I told him that and he was like, okay,
all right. He fully took it in. And he was like,
this feels like a surprise to me. And I was like,
this feels like a surprise to me. And then for
my birthday, he gave me Brandi Carlile tickets and said,
why don't you bring a friend?
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Well, we love him.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
We really do love him.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
We really do. I know. Listen, that is a good move. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
It was. It was a really good move. So yeah,
he's but there's and he has no friends. He was
like he was like I he's got like four friends
because he was like every man that I talk to
is either complaining about his wife or being gross about
like a woman who is too young for him or
(08:56):
just like a blowhard or an asshole and it is
interesting to me. I'm like, well, I guess there is
a male loneliness epidemic also for guys who are just like,
I also think we suck. I also don't love this.
All of his friends, his, all his best friends are lesbians.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
Okay, well, good. We're going to fit right into the family.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
I mean, I feel really good about this. I can't
wait for this friendship is.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Blossoming very quickly. I know unexpectedly, but not shocked at all. No,
it's blooming. It's blooming. It's blooming. So you, you know,
besides having caught a great catch, let's just say, did
you grow up in New Jersey or did you grow
up in New York?
Speaker 2 (09:42):
No, I was born in New York and then my
parents got divorced. We moved to New Jersey and I
grew up here. And then when I was 18, I left,
went back to New York and started acting on Broadway. Wow.
So like I never went to college, you know, I
didn't have friends. I was never... like, high school was.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
You were in the streets.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
I was. In the streets of Broadway. Just everybody, just
jazz hands everywhere.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Oh, my God.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
But I didn't, like, really have friends from high school.
We didn't have similar interests. I was always, like, I
was never really a child. I was always, like, a
45-year-old gay man in a little girl's body.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
Oh, my gosh. And.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
So I get to New York, and I was not
a child actor. I auditioned for Liesel in The Sound
of Music on Broadway. They cast me instead as the
understudy to Maria. Wow. And then I eventually took over
that role, and I played opposite Ashlyn, a 70-year-old man.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
The jump player.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
He played Captain Funtrap. I'm actually going to send you
a picture of me and him together.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
Please.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
70 years old. Richard Chamberlain was his name. Loveliest man.
Could not have been lovelier. And also, can you imagine
that happening now?
Speaker 1 (10:59):
No.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
And 1997 doesn't feel that long ago to me. No
one was like, I don't know about this. It's fascinating
to me. And frankly, I'm grateful because it started my career.
But I was also like living in a studio apartment
at 18 years old with no girlfriends. And so I
was like, all right, well, I'm so lonely. Boys like me.
(11:26):
So I guess it's that. And then it was just like,
and I talk about this in my show, boyfriend after
boyfriend after boyfriend after boyfriend. Just, yeah. So I started
referring to my vagina as the portal to greatness. Oh,
(11:48):
my God. But I really think about it where I'm like,
what if I had kept the greatness for myself?
Speaker 1 (11:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Instead of wasting all of this fucking precious time baking myself,
folding myself into their lives, becoming whoever they wanted me
to be, reflecting back what they wanted to see, not
learning who I was. I didn't have hobbies. I, I,
my hobby was just like boys, I guess. And yeah,
(12:19):
I get it. It felt like what was my, it
felt like what was the option for me. Well, I met,
I met my best girlfriends when I was 30.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
Do you genuinely feel, cause I hear this so often
and I feel the same, like we were told to
be a certain way. We were told like, I could
shapeshift like a motherfucker into any situation, any group of people.
Like it is. And we're so taught that as young girls,
it's like, yeah, we can't ruffle feathers. Like we have
(12:54):
to be kind and polite and pretty and this and that.
And like, I was a nightmare as a child. And.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Tell me about that.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
What does that mean? Well, I just noticed my mom
always being like, I just had a big personality as
a young kid and I was bullish and I hate
when people told me to be something I didn't feel
like was in my insides or my DNA. So I
(13:23):
would start doing the complete opposite. Like my, you know,
my mom would be like, you have to put your hair.
I played on boys sports teams because my brother was
older than me and I wanted to hang with my brother.
I wanted to look like my brother. So I'd go
to the beach and I wouldn't wear like a bathing
suit or a top. And I'm like, okay, I'm like
12 now. Like I don't know if it's appropriate. But
(13:44):
I just didn't give up. Like I would rebel against
everything people told me to do because it felt like
so much pressure. And I didn't want to be the
little cute girl. I didn't want to date little boys.
Like I wanted to be one.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Yeah. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
It was like really weird for me. I, I mean,
there's no shocker I'm gay, but like, Oh, um, I
really tried to fit like the agenda that was put
on me at a very early age. And then I
would kind of shape shift a little, I would try
it and I'd be like, this is yuck. And then
I go back and then I try it. And I
(14:25):
just feel like now, cause I just turned 40 and
I'm in such a I'm getting what I want phase
and I'm not here to please and minimize myself anymore.
And I'm hearing it so much from so many women
in my like age. I'm having the best sex of
my life. My relationship is the best it's ever been.
(14:45):
It's like everything is just. And I don't know if
it's as we age, we stop giving a shit what
people think about us and start living the life we've imagined.
But it has taken so much to get here. Yep.
And it's interesting because you I just saw something that you.
(15:07):
you posted about, about people like talking about your fucking
appearance and getting into those comments.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
It just made me laugh because I was on my friend.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Give people context because they probably haven't heard it or
watched it.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
So my friend, Joe Marcos, or I say he's a comedian.
I was on his podcast and I don't know why
I looked through the comments. I guess I just wanted
to hurt myself. And I mean, I guess that's it.
I was like, well, I hate myself enough today. Let
me go to the internet. Oh, great. So I looked
at the comments and one guy was like, what did
(15:42):
Laura Benanti do to her face? She's unrecognizable. And I
was like, all I've done is get older. I haven't
done anything to my face. I just am not young anymore.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
And then it made me laugh because I was like,
I love the idea of me going into like a
plastic surgeon's office and being like, can you give me
the older face? I don't want the young face anymore.
Could you give me the one that's older now?
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
But I was like, fuck that guy. And I responded
and I wrote, we're allowed to get older. Good for you.
And he deleted the comment.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
Yeah, because he probably got eaten alive and he deserves it.
And you guys, y'all men wonder why you... But it's
women too.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
Women are doing it. Oh, women are mean as hell.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
We can never win.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
Women cannot win. We cannot win. We can never win.
I'm exhausted. Either we're shamed for getting something done to
our face. We're shamed if we don't. I'm so tired
of it. And I'm in perimenopause.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
And.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
I do think there is something about like all of
my estrogen levels dropping. Like as I lose estrogen, I
gain like this witchy wisdom where my body is like
supplanting the hormone where it's just whispering to me like,
I don't.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
Give a fuck about them. Fuck them.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
And it's been really fascinating. I also realized so much.
I have spent my entire life looking at myself through
the lens of the male gaze. what do I look
like to men? How do I seem to men?
Speaker 1 (17:24):
And isn't that so fucked?
Speaker 2 (17:27):
It's, I mean, it's literally tale as old as time.
I mean, that's how women survived. I do think it
is our, it's a genetic component that it's cellular. It
is in our bones because we had to align ourselves
with the patriarchy to survive.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
Correct.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
You know? And so it's interesting to me that now
all of a sudden we don't need men. we can
choose to be with men that so many women are like,
I don't actually choose it. I don't, I don't choose it.
I don't need it. And I don't choose it. And
they're in an uproar about it where I want to
go like, then fix it.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
If you want us so badly, then fix it, fix yourself.
And I get that there's like a sublimated warrior spirit.
You know, we are not defending ourselves from tigers anymore.
So it's got to go someplace for them, you know, and,
but it can't go where it's going. And it's, it's,
(18:28):
it's been, and this is, this is literally everything we're
talking about is my show.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
It is my, Oh, I love this. I love this.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
I cannot, where I recall, I call myself and I
feel like Sophia will relate to this. I call myself
a recovering ingenue because when you play ingenues, Your whole life.
And you don't have to be an actress to be
playing an ingenue.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
You know, I played one on stage, in TV, and
in real life.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
Once you start to give that up, and some of
it is choice, and some of it is simply getting older.
When I am now in conversations with men, they speak
to me differently now than they did when I was 20.
They gave me more respect when I was 20 than
they do now. Because the element of wanting to fuck
me is gone.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
And so they are less interested in what I have
to say. And I'm like, oh my God, I wish
I had known when I was 20 years old that
older men weren't infatuated with me because I was fascinating.
It's because women their own age couldn't stand them.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
That part. Say that part out loud. Stay tuned. I'll
be back in just a moment after this brief message
from our sponsors. I do say this genuinely because you
and I both share this connection. You've you've grown up in,
in the Broadway space. I've grown up in the sports section,
(19:51):
but what I know that ties us both together is
the scrutiny. And we've been evaluated our whole fucking life.
And what people don't realize is how exhausting that is
on top of everything we're already talking about. Like everything
was measured. Oh, Were you enough? Did you perform well?
(20:13):
Did you win? Did you get the standing? Did you
get the award?
Speaker 2 (20:16):
And were you hot while you did it?
Speaker 1 (20:19):
I'm just like, I'm curious of how this feels now
in this new kind of phase. You're doing a comedy tour,
which is very different. It's a live performance, which you
clearly know you've excelled. You've done incredible work, incredible things
to move audiences. Is it finally fucking nice to do
(20:40):
it on your own terms and say whatever you want?
It's a one woman show. You could do whatever you want.
You could say whatever you want. You're a 47 year
old who's lived so much fucking life. You've dropped the rope.
And like, I'm curious how this feels now where you've
had a lifelong career of being evaluated and playing in
(21:00):
these certain roles. But now like you're doing it on
your own terms. I'm curious like what that feels like.
are you finally like dropping the rope and unleashing so much?
That feels so good.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
It feels really good. And it feels really scary because
it is also like a massive shift for my audience.
So the people who know me, know me as the ingenue.
They know me as, and even though, you know, I've
always done, I've always been funny, you know, um, it's
(21:35):
been in a palatable way. Yes. And so what's been
very hard with this comedy show, I shouldn't say very hard.
What is, what is challenging about this comedy show is
some people will show up thinking I'm going to sing
the sound of music and then I'm singing, we don't
want to see your dicks unless we say we do. So,
and they're just like, Whoa. Yeah. It's a call response,
(21:57):
by the way, um, that I make the men sing
with me. But so I think that is tricky because
I don't want to offend people. I don't want to
trick them. I am very clear. I'm like, the show
is not a musical. It's got original songs, but it
is 16 plus. It is rated R. There is adult content.
Like I'm not giving you grateful sweet pea. You know,
(22:22):
it is the truth of my life experience. And I've
had such a privileged life. Like I know that. And also,
I've been through some shit. A lot of it's self-inflicted. Yes.
Which I think is important to note. You know, I
say my show is like it's a cautionary tale for
(22:42):
young women. And also a love letter to moms and
like my perimenopausal Gen X witches.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Of course, you know, so. I, it is scary in
that if you're playing a character on a show and
people are like, I don't like that show. And you're like, well,
I didn't write it. Even if they don't like the character,
you're like, okay, whatever. If people don't like my show,
they don't like me. Yeah. But that's the whole point
of my show. It's about being a recovering people pleaser.
And the thing, and I think we also have this
(23:12):
in common, the thing that has it, my people pleasing
recovery program is my children. Because I will never make
them happy all of the time and they will never
like me all of the time. And it cannot be
their job to like me all of the time. It
is my job not to need them to like me
and to be able to hear hard things, to be
(23:33):
able to hear I hate you and say, well, I
love you.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
You know, to not be so afraid of my daughter's
strength that I put them in the same box that
I allowed myself to be put into. How do I
help them harness the energy you were talking about earlier
where you were just like, I cannot be this. And
then you would go be it for a little while
and then come back and be like, that's not true
to me. How do we remove the obstacles from our
(23:59):
daughter's way, our children's way, in order to reveal their
best and strongest selves? And I can't do that if
I am not. I cannot give them what I don't have.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
It's so true. And you just said that so beautifully. Yeah.
And that's the whole point, right? And before we jump
into parenting, because I definitely want to get into that,
I'm curious why you chose the title Nobody Cares, because
you have been very open about being a people pleaser
and you felt like as a child you were the
ugly duckling, which I find that hard to believe. You're gorgeous.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
I will send a picture. You will see. You will see.
You will know. You will feel for me.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
I just love this so much. But where did you,
why did you decide on Nobody Cares? Are you just
in this fucking phase in your life or like, tell
me about it.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
It actually started because Audible, the Audible platform, they reached
out to me about writing a show. They do this
thing called Audible Theater where they do live theatrical performances
at the Minetta Lane Theater and then they audio record them,
like almost like a radio play. And so they commissioned
me to write it. And as I was writing it,
(25:11):
I was like, nobody cares. Like, who the fuck cares
about what a middle-aged white lady has to say? Like,
I don't know if mine is the voice we're clamoring for.
And I was having such a hard time writing it.
And then I was like, what if I just fucking
call it Nobody Cares? What if I write, what if
I name the title and I release myself from it
needing it to be important? And I just write down
(25:34):
what is important to me. And The version of it
that is on their platform is very different than what
it has evolved into. It's 75 minutes. It's, you know,
I didn't have time really to work on it. I just,
I didn't get to tour it before we recorded it.
So I didn't get to do it in front of
human beings until the night we recorded it. So I've
(25:56):
done a lot of work on it now. It's much funnier.
It's cleaner. It's tighter. Yeah. Um, there's new songs, but
I'm still proud of what, what is out there. But
to me, it's like a B and I feel like
I do genuinely feel like the show is now is
like an A. Yeah. Um, but or an A minus, uh,
(26:17):
I don't even remember what the original question was.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
Well, I was just curious of why. And here we are. Listen,
I fucking get it. This is my mom brain every day.
But I was just curious of why you decided to,
you know. Oh, yes.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
The title of Nobody Cares.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
The title. Yeah. Because I imagined there was something in it,
which I love the storytelling piece of it.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
But it also became ultimately where I was going through
my life, all of the things that fucking tortured me.
The shit where I was like, am I pretty enough?
Am I thin enough? Am I talented enough? Am I
smart enough? You know, am I enough? All of this stuff,
worrying about that thing that I said, you know, three
years ago to a person I'll never see again, waking
(26:59):
up in the middle of the night stressing about that.
Do these people like me? Even people I don't like
wanting them to like me.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
Isn't it crazy?
Speaker 2 (27:07):
And then I was like, you know what? Nobody fucking cares.
Nobody cares. We're all thinking about ourselves. We are all
the stars of our own movies. I have to let
this go. I cannot live for what other people think
of me anymore. I am exhausted. What a waste.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
That part. that part and it's so it is so
true when you say that because no one is thinking
about it more than we are and i love to
tie that back to like the nobody cares piece i
wish i could have carried that with me a lot
because it does it does cost something like for two
(27:48):
performers because i consider us two performers for so much
of our life people have no idea how much it
costs to put yourself in those positions to be a
performer because it's directly feedback all the time. Not only
from the people coaching you, the people you're performing with,
(28:09):
your teammates, like it's such a fucking loophole of wondering,
am I worthy enough? Did I get that right? Like
it costs so much. Do you know what it doesn't cost?
Anything to be kind. And people have fucking forgotten that
and fallen on their head all the time. And you
(28:30):
speak so much. We have young kids. And I want
to transition into this because I do think it's so important.
You've been outspoken about social media and how harmful it
is for young girls and how it will continue to
be harmful to And this vicious cycle of these young
(28:54):
kids figuring out who the fuck they are while so
many people now have these stupid things and these keyboard
warriors who put these thoughts in young girls' head. Talking
about the beginning of the show of like there's just
so much at stake right now for our young kids.
children being developed, especially young girls, because now we're getting
(29:17):
back into the skinny phase. We're getting back into the
beauty phase of you have to look this kind of way,
which I thought we were getting out of it. I
thought we were finally body positivity, like all bodies come
with different shapes and sizes and all the things. And
we have really gotten right back into the shitty parts
of our culture. And I'm curious, like what you're process
(29:41):
is when raising children and this current landscape, because you
and I grew up knowing we were fucking ripped apart.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
We were ripped apart. And so with Sophia, we talk
about it all the time and it's like scary having
a five-year-old daughter. And I'm like, I'm like, you're going
to get a fucking dial-up phone or a flip phone,
and you better be lucky for it. Because this is toxic. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
Well, there is, I think, a movement now. Look, I
don't know how many scientific studies need to show how
deeply detrimental social media is to all of us, and
especially developing brains. It's like cigarettes. You know, for however
many years, people were just... just smoked. And the tobacco
(30:32):
companies knew they were killing people and didn't care. I
don't know what it's going to take for all of
us to say, we've seen enough studies. We're done contributing
to killing our children. We're done. And it's a really
hard thing to do because there's peer pressure involved. If
your kids' friends are on a text chain and they
don't have a phone, then they're othered. But I do
(30:54):
think there is a wide movement Now of parents, you know,
your age and my age that are committing to not
giving their children devices at or at least social media
until they there's a thing in Montclair called wait till eight.
And it's basically like, don't give your children phone phones
until they're in eighth grade. Yeah. And then even get
(31:18):
a bark phone, which you monitor constantly. And there's no,
you can text. It's a landline. Like you can text
and you can call. You can look at the weather.
You got a calculator.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
You can listen to music. You're not browsing the web.
You are not on Instagram. You're not doing any of
those things. But, you know, I will sometimes spiral into
a place where I am just like, what are, what
have we done to our children? What are we doing
to our children? They are sent in sensory overload all day.
Of the time. All of the time. There are screens everywhere.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
Everywhere.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
Even a billboard now is a screen. You know, there is,
they don't have time to be bored. They don't have
time to look out, you know, they don't look out
the window. They don't journal. They don't lay in their
backyard and look at the clouds. They have a thousand
fucking playdates and a million different teams and dance classes.
And it's insane.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
Like let them fucking breathe too.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
And.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
Man, I just I and I also think, you know,
you were what you say is so true that we
have been constantly evaluated our whole lives. And motherhood is
a whole other set of being evaluated, of being judged,
you know, and it's a whole new level of it.
And I am constantly feeling like I'm doing it wrong.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
You know, I constantly feel or I'm told that I'm
doing it wrong.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
You know?
Speaker 1 (32:47):
Well, you know, here we go back, Laura, we go
back to what we were just talking about. Women carry
this insane pressure to be exceptional and perfect. I have
to be pretty. I have to be skinny. I have
to be liked. The boy has to like me, right?
I got to be picked, right?
Speaker 2 (33:02):
Chosen. You have to be chosen.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
I have to be chosen. I have to be a
great mother. I have to be a great partner. I
have to be great at work, but I have to
also be emotionally available. I have to look good. I
have to keep the house together. And then somewhere in
all that, I'm supposed to make it look like effortlessly,
you know, like it should, it should, that's, I'm fucking exhausted.
I'll tell you, being a mom has been so humbling.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
My kids have, it has been so humbling.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
I just like, I appreciate how honest you have been
in your work about like allowing people to be more
honest about it. Because I think these screens and I
think these movies have absolutely brainwashed all of us. We're
not living in reality. I mean, half the time, I'm
lucky if I'm out of my PJs.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
I don't have it all together. I always think I'm failing.
I mean, it's a real, it's really hard. Yes. It
is really hard. Yeah, it is.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
And I don't want it to be. As hard for
our daughters. And, you know, never has there been a
greater divide than Gen Z gender. So, you know, boys
are becoming increasingly right wing, increasingly misogynist. And part of
(34:33):
that is because of what they are fed in their algorithm.
There was a study done where a woman created 10
accounts of boys age like 13 to 26. And within
48 hours of creating those accounts, she started getting fed racist, misogynist,
(34:53):
the Joe Rogans of the world. And she was like,
if I had a developing brain, because the brain is
not fully developed until you're 27 years old, if I
had a developing brain and this is what I was consuming,
I would also think I'm under attack. I would also
think that you know, that women are the reason that
(35:16):
I'm suffering, that brown people are the reason I am suffering,
that trans people are the reason I am suffering. We
are not all watching the same news. We are not
all watching the same world and then making decisions based
on that. And I just think that is so incredibly dangerous.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
Dangerous.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
And I don't know the answer to, and protecting isn't
the right word, I don't know the answer to how
we help our children navigate it.
Speaker 1 (35:45):
I don't know. We're barely navigating. Yes. Like, yes. And
I say this genuinely. I'm on social media. I'm like,
I don't know what's real and what's not with AI anymore. Oh,
I'm like, oh, my God, honey. Did you just see
this bear come up to blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And this like kid, she was like, honey, it's AI.
And I'm like, fuck. Like, I know if I can't
(36:06):
even tell that, you know. The difference? I can't imagine
these kids can. And then that becomes believable. Stay tuned.
I'll be back in just a moment after this brief
message from our sponsors.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
When I was growing up, I saw a picture of
myself maybe 10 times a year. Oh, yeah. I saw
my school picture. I saw the photos that my friends
and I took to the pharmacy to develop. And that
was it.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
That was it?
Speaker 2 (36:40):
I did not look into a camera to do a selfie.
I did not have filters. Filters. I did not look
at other people who look like fucking robots because of
these filters. The amount of input we receive, not only
from the external world, but from our own selves. We
(37:01):
view ourselves so much, even on a Zoom. we're talking.
I can still fucking see myself. Get away from me, me.
Let me breathe me.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
You know?
Speaker 2 (37:15):
And my four-year-old the other day was like, I'm going
to take a selfie and post it on Instagram. She's four.
It's not something we talk about in our house. She
was like, I think I saw it in a TV show.
And it's hard. My older daughter's nine. So she's watching like,
you know, nine like sitcoms that nine year olds watch
where there's phones.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
Yeah, of course.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
But, you know, I saw someone say and this made
me laugh. They were like, what if it's an Amish community,
but it's the 90s? What if we all fucking agree
to live in communities that it's just the 90s? We
can have flip phones. Fine.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
Yeah, I'd love that.
Speaker 2 (37:54):
But give me a map quest. Fucking let me print
out those directions. Let me tape them to the seat
next to me.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
Oh, my gosh. Remember it was like two streets. I
don't know the names, but go left and you'll see
a gas station. And then once you hit the gas station,
you know, you make that and then you keep going.
Then you'll see a playground. And then once you know
you're on the right track when you hit the. What
happened to that? It was like an adventure.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
We're using our brains, too. You know, there are all
these studies, too, now that fucking all of these, like, GPS,
it's affecting our brains in terms of, like, Alzheimer's.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
We're not using the synapses that will keep us protected
as we get older. So, and here's the thing. It's
not going away. It's not unless we do, frankly, and
I think we should consider this, create our 90s haven.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
We have to.
Speaker 2 (38:41):
We got to make, we got to blockbuster.
Speaker 1 (38:43):
Right. Oh my God.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
We're going to have blockbusters.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
Remember when you used to walk up? Do you remember
the smell? Yes.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
Of course.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
I fuck. Remember the stress of bringing it back on time?
Speaker 2 (38:57):
Yes. And rewinding it. You better fucking rewind it.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
Oh, but that's the thing too.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
Simple courtesy. Rewind that shit.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
I miss that shit so much.
Speaker 2 (39:09):
And then your neighbor.
Speaker 1 (39:10):
You know, you had to open it. Yes.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
Crack.
Speaker 1 (39:13):
Open it. Yes. I remember that was so much fun.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
You'd go with your whole family.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
You would fight about it.
Speaker 1 (39:24):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (39:25):
And always there was some neighbor who came out of
that back room. Oh, yeah. where you were like hello
yep okay completely so it again it's community it's being
in the physical space with people fucking drinking in the
woods around a bonfire now these kids are just texting each.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
Other from their rooms oh my god drink around a
bonfire And do you remember everyone would be like, where's
the hot spot this weekend?
Speaker 2 (39:53):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
It's like you changed it because you didn't want, you know,
the police couldn't figure it out and find your local spot.
You just kept moving it. It was an adventure for everyone.
Speaker 2 (40:02):
We would hang out at Pathmark. We would go to
fucking Pathmark and sit and just hang out. Go to
a pizza place and be there for four hours eating
one slice of pizza between all of us.
Speaker 1 (40:14):
And also screens were just like, let's go to the
movie theater. We're about to have our first kiss. No
one was even watching. No one even was watching. I
was like, Oh, I'm going to bring Tyler to the
movies because I'm going to hold his hand. And when
the lights are really low before the end of the movie,
first kiss with him.
Speaker 2 (40:36):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (40:36):
No one can see it.
Speaker 2 (40:38):
Oh my God. I do as an aside that my
first kiss was, So gross. There was so much saliva
happening in his mouth. It was basically as if he
just like hocked a loogie into my mouth. Then he
pulled away and he fucking winked at me. No.
Speaker 1 (40:53):
Did you have a string of spit though when you
pulled away?
Speaker 2 (40:56):
Basically. I was just like, it's just like he basically
poured his spit into my mouth and then just wagged
his tongue around and then winked. How dare you, sir?
Speaker 1 (41:06):
How dare you? How?
Speaker 2 (41:08):
Get away from me.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
This?
Speaker 2 (41:09):
I was like, this is terrible. I never want to
do this again. This is horrible. But yeah, no, I just.
And what's interesting to me, too, is on social media,
a lot of the most popular videos among Gen Z
are video home movies of the 90s. They are nostalgic
for a time they never knew because on a certain level,
(41:30):
they know that it was innocent. And look, the 90s
weren't perfect. Obviously, there was a lot of shit going down.
I don't know how many times we had to be
reminded not to get into unmarked vans. You know, there
was a lot going on also. I'm not saying it
was perfect, but I do think it was the last
time where kids could at least remain innocent for longer.
(41:53):
They even, we looked like children. I look at pictures
of me at 14 and I'm like, and now I
see pictures of girls at 14 and I'm like, what? Well,
they're like, yes, they're Kardashians.
Speaker 1 (42:07):
Yes. Yes. Yeah. I didn't have a fucking push-up bra.
Speaker 2 (42:13):
What was that? Also, my parents would have been like,
get back in this motherfucking house.
Speaker 1 (42:18):
Can you imagine? Yeah. My, oh my God, my dad,
no fucking way. But back in our day, like dress codes,
remember you had to put your hands down? I was
a tall, lanky fucking thing.
Speaker 2 (42:31):
Me too.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
So when I put my hands down, they were to
my like, tip of my kneecap me too that's the
way the dress code worked now I see I'm.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
Wearing shorts yeah I know little shirts.
Speaker 1 (42:44):
And pants and I mean like.
Speaker 2 (42:46):
I get it we should never never and I'm also
like women should be allowed to wear what they want
like we should be able to be allowed to wear
what we want without being like is somebody gonna assault
me like.
Speaker 1 (42:58):
That should absolutely be able to happen totally different conversation.
Speaker 2 (43:01):
But when you are 13 years old And what is
being marketed to you is that when it's almost as
if you do not have a choice. You know, when
I think of, I think of Brittany and Lindsay Lohan and,
you know, all of these young girls who are sexualized,
we destroyed them. We destroyed them.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:22):
And I just, how, how do we in a, in a,
in a world where Our current administration is rounding up
wild horses with helicopters, selling them for $ 25, calling themselves cowboys.
How do we fucking protect our children? And we cannot
(43:44):
do it alone. We have to organize. I just, I
really believe that we have to organize.
Speaker 1 (43:49):
And the only people who will save us are women.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (43:52):
And here's the other problem. We're still being punished differently
for being outspoken. Yes. I... Like, especially in this administration,
I'm like, I'm seeing the way that man, I won't
even use his name, is speaking to people. And I'm like,
(44:13):
can you imagine what he is like behind closed doors
if he's willing to speak to women this way, let alone, like,
his wife or, like, it is... so fucking crazy to
me that people think that this is okay, but we're
so desensitized. Like we fucking have no concept of reality anymore.
(44:35):
We have zero concept. People don't understand how words carry
weight and there's real consequences. Like I have two black
children and black people are being killed and hanging from
fucking trees right now because of the shit we're putting
out and the things we're saying. And it's like, we're like, okay, well,
(44:59):
I'm just going to keep going on with my day today.
And I'm like, when are people going to wake the
fuck up?
Speaker 2 (45:07):
Yes. I do think this is part and parcel of
accessibility to education.
Speaker 1 (45:17):
A hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (45:20):
And we... are a civilized nation where in order to
get an education, you have to be rich. Tell me
how that is not an oligarchy. Explain to me how
people are supposed to be able to confidently make decisions
(45:46):
if they are not taught critical thinking.
Speaker 1 (45:48):
That part.
Speaker 2 (45:49):
So not only are we banning books... Let's even put
that aside. Let's put aside all of the extra bullshit
that's happening. Marginalized communities do not have access to education.
And even if they do public education, you're spending $ 120, 000
to send your kid to college and then they leave
(46:12):
college and there's no fucking jobs for them. It's crazy.
You know, it's crazy.
Speaker 1 (46:16):
So I don't.
Speaker 2 (46:18):
Blame people for being angry. And the best thing to
do when you're angry is blame someone else.
Speaker 1 (46:23):
Correct.
Speaker 2 (46:24):
And so for me, the blue collar workers who voted
for Trump are less nefarious to me than the rich
fucking motherfuckers.
Speaker 1 (46:36):
That part.
Speaker 2 (46:37):
With education who are doing it for their own gain.
Speaker 1 (46:41):
Correct.
Speaker 2 (46:42):
Correct.
Speaker 1 (46:43):
Their own gain and their own back pockets.
Speaker 2 (46:45):
Correct. These people are doing it because they think it's
going to save their life. And, you know, and I
do think as a lifelong Democrat, we have done a
very bad job of explaining how we actually support the
people who are voting for Trump, who are voting against
their best interests. They are not going to see it
because they don't have critical thinking skills. And I do
(47:08):
think it's by design. I think that if we keep
people stupid, They keep these people stupid. These people stay rich.
Speaker 1 (47:14):
Well, that's why we're removing books and burning them and
cutting some of the most precious antique books out there.
Speaker 2 (47:21):
Oh, my God.
Speaker 1 (47:22):
So we can filter it into AI. What? So we
can change it. To kill a mockingbird?
Speaker 2 (47:27):
You're telling me children can't read to kill a mockingbird?
Speaker 1 (47:30):
It is crazy behavior. As someone, especially because I was
born and raised in Florida. Yeah. Oh, my God. That
is like a different place.
Speaker 2 (47:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:40):
Education wise. Yeah. Like all of it. It is, it
is what people say.
Speaker 2 (47:48):
I feel like we all want to belong. So if
we are by nature pack animals, I do think they,
I do think that this MAGA movement has done an
excellent job of creating community. It's like a gang, you know,
(48:08):
I feel like There is this feeling of belonging. The
red hats alone, you know, the Trump flags. I would
know who had a fucking Biden flag waving in their.
Speaker 1 (48:23):
Never.
Speaker 2 (48:24):
An Obama flag. And, you know, you mentioned something earlier
about how we're back to skinny. There is a direct
correlation between regime and female beauty standards. Correct. And every
single time it is. What we're dealing with right now,
women get skinnier and skinnier and skinnier and skinnier because
(48:45):
they want us to fucking disappear. And it is dangerous
to be loud. It is physically dangerous to be loud.
But what the fuck else are we going to do?
Speaker 1 (49:00):
It's always, but also when you look at the history,
it always comes from us. The change always comes from us.
We carry all the weight. It's just exactly the circle
where we started. The pressure of what we carry as women.
It's like we have to fix it. And we have
young children, young girls that we want to leave this
(49:21):
world better. And right now it's not. What my five-year-old
is going to live in is so dangerous and so toxic.
That's a lot more pressure for me to carry because
I have to set the foundation for of what is acceptable.
You talk about education, you talk about all these things,
(49:42):
but they spend more time in school than they do
with me.
Speaker 2 (49:44):
Totally.
Speaker 1 (49:45):
Which is fucking scary. I know. For me.
Speaker 2 (49:48):
I think about that a lot.
Speaker 1 (49:49):
And I do too. And that's why I'm in important
places where my kids have, you know, it's progressive places. They,
it's very biracial and, you know, there's all different walks
of life because I, I fear what this can potentially
do long-term and it will. And it's like, it puts
(50:10):
a lot more pressure on us. And that's the hard
part of being a parent right now in this current,
forget being queer, color, all of the different things. Raising
kids right now, I feel it. And I feel bad
for parents because it's a lot to carry and it's
a fuck ton of pressure. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (50:30):
My mom said that to me. She was like, I
literally cannot imagine raising you guys During the time that
you are raising your children. I would be terrified every day.
You know, and something you were saying about how it's
always been women, and it's always been black and brown women.
Speaker 1 (50:46):
That part.
Speaker 2 (50:47):
You know?
Speaker 1 (50:48):
Always.
Speaker 2 (50:50):
And that is where I do feel like intersectional feminism
is so deeply important. And it is time for white
women to stand on the front lines and go, please rest.
You know, this is maybe this protest is maybe not
a safe space for you.
Speaker 1 (51:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (51:11):
You know, so, you know, there's so much to conquer.
There always is. I can sometimes get into a space
of just like being just straight up despondent. And that
is a that is paralyzing. And we can do nothing
from a state of paralyzation, like the fight, flight, freeze
(51:31):
or fawn.
Speaker 1 (51:32):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (51:33):
You know. It's got to be fight. But how do
we do it in a way that at least I can,
I'll only speak for myself, that I'm not like the
walking wounded in my home where I'm not, my energy
is not me shaking and angry and reading the news.
And how does one compartmentalize that for your children's one
(51:55):
precious childhood? And that is where, and self-care is such a,
it's such a gross word Because I think people are like,
nails are self-care. And I'm like, maybe that is for you.
But great. For me, it's like meditation and getting myself
(52:17):
in a psychological space where I'm not coming into my
home and our children are going like, ooh.
Speaker 1 (52:24):
That's important.
Speaker 2 (52:26):
Then I am impatient with them. And the impatience is fear.
The impatience is going like, don't act like that because
that's not safe or don't do that because that's not safe. Yeah.
Like what we were talking about earlier, you know, with
you when you were younger and I'm sure your parents
being like, put your fucking shirt on. It's the beach. Yeah.
(52:48):
And you're like, that's not who I am though. So
how do we weigh that? How do we weigh what
is safe for our children physically and what is safe
for them emotionally?
Speaker 1 (53:00):
Yeah. But I think what you're doing right now, if
I were to tie this whole conversation in a bow,
I do think so much of our life has been
about performance.
Speaker 2 (53:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (53:12):
But I do feel like this chapter is about permission.
And what a great gift to our children. Permission to
fucking age. Permission to change. Permission to be ambitious, but
also tired at the same time.
Speaker 2 (53:29):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (53:31):
I just think it's so beautiful to be able to
teach our children that, to be sensitive, but also to
be strong and to be funny and tell the truth.
And also maybe the most important thing is permission to
disappoint people along the way.
Speaker 2 (53:45):
Woof. Including yourself. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (53:48):
And maybe that's the tie here when you talk about
nobody cares, right?
Speaker 2 (53:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (53:53):
It's not cynical. Maybe it's the freedom. Maybe it's the
freedom part. And I think that's why this conversation is
so beautiful. And I love what you're doing and how
you're opening a different side of you, a different performative
side of you that a lot of people will be
able to connect with in a real way. So I just,
(54:15):
you know, I could be here all day with you,
but I want you, I want to say thank you
because I do, it's a lot of bravery to be yourself.
It's easy to be someone else on stage.
Speaker 2 (54:26):
Well, I feel similarly about you. Thank you. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (54:29):
Well, thank you so much for being on Wide Open.
Thank you for being so vulnerable. And also, thank you
for fucking just being yourself in all of these seasons, right?
It's like, you know, I've been able to follow you
and I've, you know, I just really respect it. And
I think sometimes we do have a beautiful gift and
obligation when we become something of how we choose to
(54:53):
show up and serve other people and not And I think,
you know, we have to continue standing on the right
side of change. And it's more shit on our plate
as we navigate life and kids and motherhood and perimenopause. Like, fuck,
that's a whole other conversation no one talks about. We're
carrying the weight of the world while trying to figure
(55:13):
out our own bodies that we haven't been educated on
or researched or have access to the things we need
when our body is going through war. Yeah. I love
that you're openly talking about these things and I think
it's important and our children are going to be able
to see these things and understand like the complexities of
(55:35):
womanhood and life and what we carry. So thanks for
being on the show today.
Speaker 2 (55:40):
Oh my gosh. It's my pleasure.
Speaker 1 (55:42):
All right, everyone. Well, thanks so much for being on
the show, Laura. And thanks everyone for tuning in to
another episode of Wide Open. And as always, we'll see
you next week. Bye everyone. Bye. Bye.
Host
Ashlyn Harris
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