June 22, 2026 • 52 mins
Jordan Lucas went viral for being utterly himself. On CSUN’s men’s volleyball team, he snaps, flicks, waves, and serves more than just volleys on the court. He’s one of the few visibly gay male athletes we have right now, and today Ashlyn sits down with him to talk about what it took to live so openly. They discuss safety in men’s sports for queer people, the importance of leading by example, and Jordan’s mission to make sure everything is better for the next generation of players.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi everyone, and welcome back to another episode of Wide Open.
I am so so happy to be here and I'm
excited for another video diary because I miss you guys.
I love unpacking what's going on in the world, how
everyone's doing. Hello, it's still pride. We have so many
things to catch up on and talk about. First and foremost,
(00:24):
the World Cup kicked off, Like how exciting is that.
I just have to say I was so impressed by
it by our men's team. That home opening game for
US against Paraguay was probably one of the best games
I've seen our men in terms of a collective collective performance.
(00:45):
Oh my god, it was absolutely unbelievable. The World Cup
for me is just the best time of year, and
it only comes every four years. It's just like everything
is so exciting during this time. Not to mention, it's pride,
it's soccer, It's all the things I love and won.
(01:06):
But also it's like soccer is what unites us. Soccer
football how wherever you are in the world. I just
it just has a universal language of joy and bringing
joy to people, and you're just seeing all these beautiful
stories unfold. I think this is going to be a
great in terms of just full on performance. This could
(01:31):
be one of the hardest World Cups we're going to see.
I think the parody is so tight. You know, you
saw the Spain come in and didn't have the performance
they wanted. I don't think Brazil had the performance they wanted.
But it just shows you can't count anyone out. Some
of these under underdog teams are you know, gonna give
(01:52):
a lot of these big federations a run for their money,
because any given day in football, anyone can win. And
I love that about sports. But listen, we can't talk
about the World Cup without talking about the Knicks. Wow,
what a what a performance these guys put in sports
(02:15):
right now in New York City are absolutely popping. The
city is electric. Sophia and I were. We were clearly
in the city. We were thirty five floors up and
we didn't sleep. We didn't sleep a wink. I mean, honestly,
it was so loud. People were going ham It was
incredible to see from afar or high up. I wasn't
(02:39):
down there in the ruffle of everyone going nuts and
running to the street. But it just shows what sports
does to us. Like the city is happy. The commercial
that said, New York City can finally sleep. It's just
(02:59):
so true. Everything about the way we.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Move is just really beautiful about how sports is the
through line in that and connecting people, and what a
beautiful time to be living right now to actually get
to see everything.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
And this next person we have on the podcast today,
Jordan Lucas, you guys are gonna love. He is the
epitome of what choosing yourself, choosing joy and choosing the
sport you love intersects to something very powerful. Jordan is
(03:40):
absolutely changing the landscape of not only volleyball, but queer
men showing up in sports and being exactly who they are,
being authentic, just powerful story of what he's doing and
carrying the weight of a lot on his back at
such an early age. I'm so excited for you guys
(04:02):
all to hear this conversation, so let's get into it.
Welcome to Wide Open. This is Jordan Lucas. Hi everyone,
and welcome back to another episode of Wide Open. I'm
your host, Ashlyn Harris. Today's conversation is about courage, not
(04:26):
the kind of courage we celebrate on scoreboards or highlight reels,
but the kind it takes to show up as yourself
in spaces that haven't always made room for that. Jordan
Lucas is one of the most recognizable faces in men's
volleyball currently. He's a Division one athlete and openly gay man,
and part of a new generation of athletes changing what
(04:47):
visibility looks like in sports. Today, we're talking about masculinity,
locker rooms, belonging, pride, social media backlash, and what it
means to choose authenticity in a world that's constantly trying
to define you. Everyone, welcome Jordan to the show. This
is Wide Open. We are so happy you're here in
(05:08):
happy pride.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
Thank you so much Ashlin for having me on Wide Open.
I am so excited and happy pride to you as well.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Oh thanks, honey. I'll tell you what I adore you.
You don't know me, but I follow you. I am
so into your content. It has changed my life. I
was actually at a World Cup event last night for
US Soccer and New York or nowhere, and everyone was like,
please come to our pickup game, and I was like,
(05:36):
I have Jordan on my podcast tomorrow. Everyone knew exactly
who you are. Everyone was like, oh my god, he's
serving more than volley's let's just say that you're a
big hit in the community. I mean, and truthfully, I
was amongst a lot of like straight white men, and
I was like, damn, y'all know too, we're really getting somewhere.
(06:00):
But you came from a family of basketball players, So
what like, what was what did volleyball give you that
basketball couldn't. I'm so curious.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
I think, you know, being in a basketball family, it's
very very masculine and a very you know, raw, that
type of thing, and I just wasn't the biggest fan
of that, and I honestly didn't really like the physical
contact of basketball, and volleyball was kind of just there
(06:30):
for me. When I told my parents I didn't want
to play basketball at around eleven twelve years old, They're like, okay,
that's totally fine, but you need to play another sport
then yep, And I was like okay. So then I
started to pick up volleyball and kind of that's like
the history of it all. It's more of I didn't
(06:51):
want to play basketball, so then volleyball was there. My
dad is the local high school basketball coach at our
local high school, and so the volleyball team practice before
his and so I would always be in the gym
and kind of see the balls and the girls peppering
and the girls hitting, and one day the high school
volley because I was like, hey, Jordan, do you want
to hop in and kind of just play a little bit?
(07:13):
And I was like, sure, I love that. And then
that was around twelve years old. And then and then yeah,
that's kind of where my love for volleyball started. And
then obviously when you're good at something, you want to
pursue it even more. And that's kind of what has
transpired over the last eight years of my volleyball career.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Oh, I love that. I'm curious though, for you, growing
up in such a heavy sport family, what did masculinity
look like in your house and how did you move
differently and how like at what point where you're like, m,
that's not for me. I'm I'm okay over here. I'm
(07:51):
going to be exactly who I am.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
I would say from a pretty young age, I knew
that I wasn't really into a lot of masculine things.
I would say I was obsessed when I was younger
with dancing and cheerleading, and I like to this day
I may bring it on diehard fan, and so I
think those were little tall tale signs for myself and
(08:16):
for my family. But you know, at such a young age,
you don't really realize that. And as I was starting
to grow up, I was like, Okay, Like, my dad's
a more stoic person, so he doesn't really show a
lot of emotion. But my brother, on the other hand,
is very macho, very loves the masculine kind of you
know parts of him and all of that stuff. And
(08:38):
so I think seeing that, I was like, Okay, like,
you know, that's cool for you. I'm not really feeling that. Yeah.
And so then kind of all of these influences when
I was younger, my mom and my aunts and bring
it on and cheerleading and I did gymnastics when I
was younger, which not a lot of people know, and
(09:00):
so kind of getting in touch with the more fluidity
side of me and more free and more fun kind
of kind of pushed me into this realm and path
of going into volleyball and then kind of figuring out
who I was.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
I love that. What do you think your earliest memory
was of someone actually celebrating your femininity instead of asking
you to hide it? Do you remember that, or maybe
no one was celebrating it and you felt like you
had to hide it.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
I would say it was my grandmother, who I'm still
very close with. She used to have these dolls, and
I used to spend like summers at my grandma's house
for like two to three months, where like I just
wouldn't see my parents, and she had this like little
box of dolls, and I was probably in third or
(09:53):
fourth grade, and I would just like play with them
and they were like so fun to me. And I
remember she like the the first time she saw me
with it, she was like, what are you doing? And
then as she caught on, She's like, oh, okay, and
then kind of would be like bring her dolls out
for me to play with them. So that was probably
the first real memory I have of people like accepting
(10:15):
not saying dolls are feminine, but you know they're more
of a feminine toy or something like that. And so
that was kind of the first I guess celebration or
allowing me to really have fun in whatever toy or
masculine or femine wanted to kind of pursue.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
When you think back to that young boy who started sports,
did you feel safe. Did you feel like there was
a place for you or was it not only were
you performing on the court, you had to perform off
of it.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
I lived two different lives from I would say age
twelve to probably age seventeen to eighteen. Those five to
six years, I felt like I had my volleyball life,
which was the freedom, the self expression, the passion that
people see now kind of and all these viral clips
(11:07):
and all that, and then I had my like at
home life and my friend life, and I never thought
I'd be able to merge the two, and it was
just something I dealt with internally because I was like,
how how do I keep the same person but also
have the different facets of myself that people like about
(11:30):
me and other facets where people don't like about me
right or aren't as accepting of it. And I think
now at the age I came out at sixteen to
my family and friends, and so at that time, like
my parents knew, some friends knew. And then I think
once I got into college and really started to be
(11:52):
aware of just other people, and like, you know, there's
so many different walks of life, and I was like, oh, well,
like this is kind of normal. In a way, like
the feelings you're feeling, and you know, being an athlete.
It kind of opened up a lot of doors and
allowed me to really fully be myself. And that's why
I will forever thank volleyball for it, because I will
never change who I am on the court because the
(12:13):
sport's given me so much, so many friends and life
lessons and opportunities.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
I love that and that's so well put. But I
think what people don't know in terms of those who
live outside of our beautiful queer community is coming out
isn't one moment. It's like hundreds of moments. I remember
even telling me. I was so scared to tell my
dad and he picked me up from the airport from
(12:41):
coming home from college, you know, probably my senior year,
and I was like, okay, well he can't run, he
can't leave. He like we're trapped in this damn car
and we're gonna have this hard, hard conversation. And I
remember just being like, I'm I'm not dating anymore. I'm
dating women, and I just want to tell you. And
(13:04):
he it was so funny because he was like, girl,
I raised you. I knew I was just waiting a
moment for you to own it and like live it.
But it was so cute. He was just like, girl,
I raised you, I know, but I'm curious for you,
what moment for you? Because I was so scared and
(13:27):
terrified and I didn't see people who look like me
in childhood, so I didn't understand queerness or why I
moved so differently, or why I didn't want to put
my hair up. And I always wanted to like be
a tomboy. Like there were signs. There were plenty of like, girl,
we knew, but tell me about when you decided you
didn't want to hide anymore and you were going to
(13:48):
own it. You were just like, this is me and
I'm I'm gonna the only thing I can do is
show up and be exactly myself. At what point did
you decide to do that in a sport that maybe
doesn't really make space for people like us.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
Well, first off, I love that, but you and your dad,
I love that. That is super cool. But for myself,
I would say at probably age eighteen was when I
was like, I'm really gonna just take ownership of it all.
And there's videos of me when I was younger, fourteen, fifteen,
(14:27):
sixteen years old were very theatrical, a lot more theatrical
and passionate than I am now. And I've tried to
and I lessen that at around sixteen to seventeen, just
going through my college recruitment, because I found out that
that was a lot of a reason why college coaches
and college programs weren't that fond of me was because
(14:48):
of the theatrics and the antics and all of that.
And at eighteen, once I committed to Grant Can University,
I was like, well, I'm already committed, already came out
to my family. I have this immense skill in volleyball.
Just start really like amping it up and bringing it
back to like when you were fourteen and fifteen years old. Yeah,
(15:11):
there's no need to hide this person that people love.
And when I went into college volleyball my freshman year,
I think for a lot of people, especially my teammates
at the time, were like what is this? And it
took them a couple months for them to understand who
I was and kind of respect the game that I
(15:32):
can play too. And I was fortunate enough to start
my freshman year at GCU and be our starting liberro
and have we had great success we made it to
the elite AID, and I think that gained a lot
of people's respect for me, not only at our program
but from the world of men's volleyball, and then has
kind of progressed until you know, the last three years
(15:55):
where you know, people are really falling in love with
who I am and what I bring to the court
and the authenticity that people see, because I think in
sports many people have that like inner saboteur and that's
one thing that I feel like all us as all
athletes have, but it's how do you get over that
as soon as possible? And I think that's one thing.
(16:17):
It's like people just want to watch you and want
to see you know how you are and the freeness
and the self expression that you have on the court.
And that's just one thing that like I've always tried
to be is like a positive light and try and
give people like you can be whoever the hell you
want to be in athletics. And you know, people can
(16:39):
take it or leave it, but I always say, you
know you're still watching.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Yeah, You're still entertain always entertained. And I do think
this as queer athletes, I think we're often there's a
moment when you realize your existence becomes bigger than your sport.
It happens a lot like when you think about queer
people in sport. It's a it goes so much further
(17:06):
beyond the playing field. When did that moment really clock
for you? Because your life, I imagine changed very quickly
and went very viral and I didn't have that, you know,
I didn't have social media in college. I didn't have
it at the beginning of my career. So it's you're
living such a different like landscape and you can reach
(17:31):
so many people and it's not that like you were,
you were just being you. But what you don't realize
the impact of you choosing yourself now is way larger
than volleyball, Like it just is. And when did that
moment really clock for you that you were like, Oh,
this is going to be big and it's going to
(17:53):
be impactful.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
It was probably So the whole thing that happened at
you see, was April ninth, and then we had two
days until our senior night, and then the viral video
got posted on Sunday, so it was like a four
day timespan, and so when that video got posted, I
was like, Okay, you know, it's a great video, like
I'll probably do maybe a couple million views, like because
(18:17):
you know, all the celebrations and the volleyball and myself
and all that hu and then I think overnight it
got posted Sunday at like five pm. And then the
following morning I was going to practice and it was
already at like six million views within like twelve hours,
and I was just like oh. And then the thing
that really made me like kind of clock what you
(18:37):
said was it was that after that video, like I
would say, the video got so Sunday and then Wednesdays
when all these major news outlets got hold of the story,
and it was honestly ABC Worldwide News that when they
reached out to me, I was like.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
Oh, oh shit, like yep.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
Okay, I yeah. It was very much that moment, and
and luckily we still had like three games left of
the season, so the build up was like even bigger
and even bigger. And I think that was the first
moment I was like, Oh, this is gonna really be something.
And then kind of that's history, Like this morning I
(19:20):
was just on Good Morning America. Wow, So that was
really crazy to see.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
I love this.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
This did a lot of great opportunities, but like it's
it's super crazy, Like it was ABC Worldwide News and
then CNN reached out to me to go on air
at like eleven PM, Like that was really crazy. Like
there's just been so many great things that have came
out of this, and you know the amount of attention
that's not only been brought to myself but to the
(19:47):
sport of men's volleyball and the sport of volleyball as
a whole. Like it's really cool to see because you know,
we're not a football, a basketball, a soccer, Like we're
not at these grand grand events. We don't have, you know,
the Super Bowl or the FIFA World Cup or things
like that. So to kind of see us get our
flowers a little bit is really cool.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Stay tuned. I'll be back in just a moment after
this brief message from our sponsors. I also think, you know,
at some point, whether you ask for it or not,
people start seeing themselves in your story. And I say
this often as a woman who is queer in sport.
(20:31):
Safety was never an issue for me. We outnumbered the
straight girlies, right, That is the that is just not
the case. And men's sports and statistically, honey, we know,
we know that there are little hunks up in those
locker rooms who feel like they can't be themselves. Yeah,
(20:55):
and you know, on the back end of heated rivalry,
and like, you guys are really showing that you can
live your truth like it is okay. It doesn't make
you less of a performer a person. How you show
up in that locker room. Have you seen any ripples?
Have you noticed anyone writing you in your DMS or
(21:19):
messaging you being like, well, like, this is giving me
the courage to live my truth out loud because we
need more safety in men's sports for queer people because
they are in there. We have gay people in men's
locker rooms that feel like they have to hide that
because it might affect their bottom line. They might get
(21:41):
cut or you know, they might not want to shower
with me, Like, how do you feel about this? What
are the messages?
Speaker 3 (21:48):
Like?
Speaker 1 (21:49):
How has this changed a lot when it comes to
being very open about living your truth and being fucking
good at volleyball and two things can be true and
it's okay, it's okay.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
Yeah, the outpour of support has been amazing, and you know,
you get the DMS and you read them of little
kids saying, oh my gosh, I am so you know,
enamored by you and all that you do for not
only the sport, but for you know, the LGBTQ plus community.
And I think something that really hit home for me
(22:23):
was I coach youth volleyball. I've been doing it for
the last four years, and so I coached a sixteen's
team in a seventeens team, and being within the youth
realm of volleyball, I'm starting to see a lot more
out gay kids play the sport, like at sixteen seventeen
then I did like five or six years ago in
amateur volleyball. So for me, that is so so cool
(22:46):
because I'm like, wow, like like kids nowadays are really
like being in tune with themselves at such a younger
age than you know, five or six years ago. And
this instance happened this past Sunday actually at this amateur
or this youth club volleyball tournament I was coaching at
this mom comes up to me. She's like, hey, Jormin,
(23:07):
my son and are huge fans. You're like, oh my gosh, okay.
We take a photo and the son is probably nine
years old, or he is nine years old and she
he takes a photo with me and he's like really
happy and the mom goes, Jordan, thank you so much.
He came out to us at seven. Wow exactly. I
was like what and she was like, yeah, like he's
(23:29):
obsessed with your videos. He like he's your super fan.
He's the cutest little kid, and so it was. It
was so that to me was a moment where I
was like, oh my gosh, like affecting younger kids' lives
and showing that you can be queer and still have
a space for you in sports. I told myself at
(23:52):
when I started volleyball at thirteen years old that when
I leave volleyball, whenever that time is retire, I hope
that I have made an impact in volleyball and the
most positive way that I can. And I can now say,
although my career isn't over, that hopefully I have made
this impact that will transcend for the next five to
(24:14):
ten years for people to really hone who they are
and their identity and show that on not only the
volleyball court, but you know, the basketball court, the football field,
the track and field, like any realm. So it's okay
it's okay to be gay, It's okay to feel all
the emotions you're feeling, because at the end of the day,
there is a community who will have your back. You
(24:37):
just have to find that.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
It's so beautifully put. And I think what people also
don't get is there's a big responsibility that comes with this,
that comes with being one of the first that lives
their truth out loud that most people haven't seen. Do
you ever feel like that type of pressure to get
it right because now people are watching more than ever and.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
A certain capacity. Yeah, definitely. I kind of what you
brought up earlier, Ashland, Like, I was just playing volleyball,
and I think that's the one thing that's so trippy
to me. It's like the way that I've played the
sport I love for the last eight years has finally
caught fire in this you know, huge virality way, and
it's like, well, how how do you now go into this?
(25:25):
How do you now explore this realm? How how does
this happen? And I think that's one thing I'm I'm
proud and willing to take on and kind of be
at the forefront of this. I don't want to say revolution,
but this kind of like new way of thinking for
male athletes or yeah, male queer athletes in male sports.
(25:45):
And I think it's really cool because as you've seen,
like in the NFL, there's one or two out athletes
in the NBA that we just had Jason Collins recently
pass away. I think that's one thing that the women's
athletes are superior in that is that they are really
owning who they are. They have the women's soccer team
(26:07):
a lot of people that are lesbian, and the WNBA
many people who are lesbian. Bronna Stewart, like, you have
so many representation in women's sports where women can look
up to you all and see like, oh my gosh,
there is a light for us. And then the men's side,
like kind of what you said earlier, there's just not
that much representation. And it just doesn't make sense to me,
(26:29):
because like, if you're talented at the sport, then you
should be able to really be like, well, you can
take it or leave it. Yeah, And that's kind of
what I'm doing. I'm like, you can take it or
leave it, either you like me or you don't.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
Fact. But I think what it boils down to Jordan
and I want to get into this because I do
think it's important. It's the locker room talk. It's always
the fucking locker room talk. It makes me crazy. Yeah,
like even for like really weird home of fuck. Trust me,
we've had some homophobes up in our locker rooms too,
(27:03):
being like, uh, showering, don't look at bitch, I'm not
looking at you. I'm not looking at you. I'm not
attracted to you. I'm here to perform, I'm here to play.
But I think we have to go there because unfortunately,
that is where often people's minds go, especially for gay men,
Like you can have a little boy. I was watching
(27:23):
this person. I'm not gonna rage bait them because I
hate that, but this person put up a young boy
who was really into makeup, and this little boy was
putting on all this makeup, and this shitty human was like,
we need to bring back bullying, we need to do this,
and we need to stop having our kids turn gay.
(27:45):
And it's like everyone's mind immediately goes to sexualizing what
this fucking little boy just likes makeup. He doesn't have
to like. It has nothing to do with who he
so chooses to love or what he's that boy is
a boy. You fucking creep stop And I want to
(28:08):
go there because so many people think instead of like
having an education, like an educated thought about okay, well great,
who they love should not affect how they perform or
how they play or how they move in a locker room.
What was it like for you stepping into college, Because
(28:30):
that's different than you know, when you shower together, you
travel together, it's a tight knit Like it's just different
than when you were a kid. Like, how has that
locker room progression been for you? Like did it change?
How are your teammates treating you? I'm curious of how
(28:50):
you feel, like do you feel safe with your team.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
At the school I was at prior not so much
at cal State Northridge. Yeah, because I feel like a
lot of the guys had respect for me and they
knew like that, you know, Jordan's a senior, like he's
been in the game for four years. Like it was
that type of feeling my freshman and sophomore year. Specifically,
(29:14):
my freshman year at Grand Canyon was very interesting for me,
just from the locker room perspective. So we played by
U and we had this kid on a visit and
I was like, why are you putting me? Like, why
am I going to be the person for this kid?
(29:35):
Because there had already been guys were like Jordan like
he does not like gay people. And my coach was like, oh, Jordan,
You're gonna be with him for the whole day.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
And I'm like, oh, hello, okay, yeah, and so.
Speaker 3 (29:47):
You know you have to you have to go to
the dinners and the lunches and all of that. And
one of my teammates at the time was like, and
the and the parents were very let's just say anti LGBTQ,
and so my team it was like, Jordan, wear like
your equality shirt and where I have these pride air
forces and I was like, you know what, I'm gonna
wear it for fun, like sure. And so I get
(30:09):
to the dinner and the dad immediately when we walk
in and sit down, the dad goes, what's your shirt?
And I remember, I'm like, oh, it's just a shirt
about love and equality and peace for all, like you know,
blah blah blah. It's like oh interesting, and I'm like, okay, whatever,
And so the whole dinner goes on and it was
like whatever, and I told my coach. I was like hey,
(30:31):
I'm not gonna bring this kid back, like he can
go with our assistant or whatever. And we're walking out
and my coach goes, ha, Drean, thanks so much for coming.
We really appreciate it. I'm like, yeah, for sure, like
of course, thanks for the free dinner, like yeah, we
really wanted to see how the parents would be with
you here. And I remember I looked at my coach
(30:54):
and I was like, fuck you, Oh my god. I
he was like Jordan. He was like, he said, Jordan,
it's not like that. It's not like that. And I'm like, no,
it is like that, and I get why you did this.
I said, so I don't want to talk to you
about it right now. And the following day he apologized
and blah blah blah blah, and then this this is
(31:16):
actually really interesting. The following match, so we played by U,
and then the following week we played Ball State and
so this is another locker room conversation. We just beat
Ball State and after every home game at GCU, we
used to play this song. I don't know if you
know this, like it's I forgot who it's bye, but
it's like a we want some per se A have
(31:39):
you heard it before. No, you could look it.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
Up at a college purning of it.
Speaker 3 (31:46):
In our locker room, so like, no one heard it besides.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
Okay, okay, got it. I thought you meant like at
the game this was playing.
Speaker 3 (31:53):
No, this was after we won the game. So we
won the game, and then we're in the locker room
and they're playing it. And at the time, my freshman year,
I was the only like really out person on our team.
We had another person on our team who was out
but like not really and him and I were friends.
And they're playing the song and our coach comes in
and goes, turn this off, turn this off, and everyone's like,
why we always played this song after we win a
(32:15):
match at home? And he's like, oh, because not everybody
in here likes pussy And I remember I was like,
got it.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
Not really the support I need, but okay.
Speaker 3 (32:27):
Yeah. And then another instance happened the following week. We
played at USC and I don't know if you're familiar
with volleyball courts, so we have terror flex, which is
like a really soft court, and then there's like the
hardwood court. Yeah, And so we played two matches at USC,
and one of the matches was gonna be on terror Flex.
Everyone was gonna be on hardwood. So we were having
(32:48):
this discussion amongst all the teammates and the coaches, and
everybody was like, oh, would you rather play on hardwood
or terror Flex? And I was like, Oh, I would
rather play on tear flex because I have to dive
a lot and like I just really have to hit
the so it's easier on the body. And my coach
was like, really, Jordan, I feel like you would prefer
hardwood more.
Speaker 4 (33:06):
I remember it was just like oh, Like I like
laughed and I was like, oh, oh now, And so
talking about locker room talking that stuff.
Speaker 3 (33:16):
That was like the only real instances that like I've
had that was like, oh, okay, I'm really getting judged
for like who I am. And the following week I talked,
I called my coach and I was like, Hey, I'm
going to set these boundaries with you, like I don't
know you like that, and you don't know me like that,
(33:36):
So please stop addressing me, especially in front of the
entire team, about these little innuendos and kind of slick
remarks said, because now the team is starting to say
those things to me.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
Yeah, it'll it's like you allow it, you allow the behavior,
and it's it's not I'm interested. Do you have teammates
in those moments like that? Have you're back? Like, how
have your teammates responded? Or how does that? Do you
have allyship in that in these locker rooms or does
(34:10):
everyone kind of do the quiet thing like they just
say nothing.
Speaker 3 (34:15):
Yeah, it's more of the bystander effect. And so a
lot of the stuff that happened at GCU for me
was at me. And when I was at cal State
Northridge the past year and a half, we had another person,
one of my best friends on the team. His name's Ben.
He's gay as well, and so obviously, you know, as
queer people are, we stick together with each other, of course,
(34:36):
and I was starting to notice that the guys on
our team this past season would say stuff to Ben,
but would never say anything to me, not about me,
but just about Ben. Would be like, oh my gosh, Ben,
like you're a fag, or be like oh my gosh,
like why are you so gay? And everything was always
directed towards him and never towards me. And we had
(34:57):
this big blow up in about October this past year,
and I was like whoever the fuck is saying this
shit to Ben, you can say it to me, because
I find it really funny that once I'm not in
the room, now you guys want to say all this shit.
When I'm in the room, no one wants to say
anything I said. So I find that funny that you
guys have the balls to say it to Ben but
(35:18):
not to me. Wow. And yeah, and so just not
a lot of I guess you like what you said, Allyship,
and a lot of people are just there and you know,
they they don't laugh, but they don't you know, they
don't egg on to it. So I think a lot
of that. And we brought that up to our coach
at cal State Northridge, and you know, he brushed it
off a majority of the time. This is like we
(35:40):
had like three instances of it. And so yeah, and
this is also another, you know, interesting thing that had happened.
So out of all of my four years of college athletics,
I really only want I wanted a pride night because
you know, you see it in soccer, you see it
in women's basketball, and I was like, what better thing
to do? And we go cal State Northbridge, a very
(36:01):
liberal school, and I was talking to my coach about
it in early October. I was like, hey, I really
would like to have a Pride Night, Like I just
want shirts and like the banner to be Pride Night,
that's it. And he was like okay, like we'll see
what we can do. And I was like, I can
even pay for the T shirts, like it's not that
big of a deal. It'd be like three hundred dollars.
(36:22):
And she's like, no, we'll see, we'll see, we'll see.
I circle back with him in December because I hadn't
heard anything about it, and he was like, oh, i'll
get back to you in January. I'm like, okay, okay,
sounds good whatever cause the game the game wasn't scheduled
to be till like March, so it's like, okay, that's fine.
And so I go to my coach in January and
I'm like, hey, do you know anything about Pride Night.
(36:44):
He's like, oh, that's that's not going to happen. I
was like okay, like you know, like and I already
dealt with a lot of that at GCU, so I
was like, you know, it's probably an administration thing. They
don't want to have the Pride night, like, I get it,
I don't want to go into deeper with it. And coincidentally,
the week later, my athletics director at our school was like, hey, Jordan,
(37:05):
I really want to talk to you about getting to
know you and like all this stuff. I'm like, okay, cool.
So I'm talking with them and I was like, hey, like,
I just want to know why was the Pride night
not allowed to happen? Why was it canceled or whatever?
And they were like, what do you mean, I've never
heard of a Pride night. No, And I was like
(37:27):
what And so I found out that my coach didn't
even tell our administrators, and my administrators were like, Jordan,
we love this idea, Like what like, oh my gosh,
blah bla blah blah blah blah blah blah. And so
it was myself, my coach, and our athletic director all
in a text thread and our athletic director was like, hey,
Jordan had this great idea about a Pride night blah
(37:48):
blah blah blah blah, like thoughts on it were thinking
about having it this time, And our coach, obviously that's
his boss, was like, oh my gosh, I love the idea,
let's do it, blah blah blah. And I was just like, dude, like,
now now that your boss is involved, now we want
to do it. Like like oh I was, I was fuming. Yeah,
(38:11):
And then I brought up the idea of having the shirts,
which I made the whole mock up design and everything,
and our admin said they weren't able to pay for it.
I was like, okay, I'll pay for it. Although I
talked to our equipment manager and we had another fifteen
hundred dollars left in our men's volleyball budget. I talked
to my coach and asked him if we could use that,
(38:32):
and he said no because it was for the summer,
the summer equipment and the jerseys and all that stuff. Okay,
so our athletic director bought little pins, like little like
you know, like like the breast cancer Yeah sign, it
was that, but just like tied, I no, yeah, and
(38:52):
that was our preadnight.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
Stay tuned. I'll be back in just a moment after
this brief message from our sponsors. Okay, so let's dive
into this because we have lived experience you totally a
totally different one. But I'm a little cunty queer. That's
about change. So I want to think about, in your opinion,
(39:17):
as you've lived in a lot of locker rooms, you know,
in your short little life that you've lived, because you're
a little young baby, how can we make sports safer
for the next generation of boys.
Speaker 3 (39:30):
And men understanding that, Like, it doesn't matter who the
hell you are off the court, that you can perform
and you have talent. It doesn't matter if you like boys, girls,
nobody if you if you prefer to do this instead
of this, if you prefer to go to the gay
(39:50):
club in West Hollywood opposed to the straight clubs down
in Newport, like whatever the case may be. Like, if
you have talent in your sport, that should only be
looked at correct.
Speaker 1 (40:01):
And that's so well put because you know, I, I'm
so tired of us having to educate people. And we
talk about this with home, you know, homophobes, we talk
about it, people who are racist. It's not always our
job to educate you. You have to educate yourself. You
(40:22):
have like coaching one oh one is creating a safe environment.
How are we going to get the best out of
every single kid here and make them feel safe and seen? Period?
We're not wondering what they're doing behind closed doors, or
who they're choosing so to love or whatever type of
people are fucking weird. It's not even it's not a
(40:43):
gay thing. It's plenty of weird ass straight people out
there that have weird kinks. No one's asking them questions. Ugh,
I could be here all day, honey, I'll tell you
what you your life has really like, I didn't have
social media, you know, I didn't have the ability to,
like you have a you have soldiers of queer people
(41:05):
behind you right now, fuck around and find out at
its finest. Let me be very queer. Let me be
very queer. Oh my god, that was really funny, ding dong.
Let me be very queer. I mean clear, But like
this explosion of attention and visibility, like is it's a
lot And I imagine it's been Like we've talked about it.
(41:27):
It's such a surreal moment. But is it Also it's
it's beautiful because it's a moment to educate and you're
doing that and every interview and every moment, like you're
really educating people. And I want to talk about this
because I've seen some backlash. I've seen what people are saying, Like,
(41:50):
you know, people have opinions, and that is the scary
part of social media. That is the scary part of
opening that door of vulnerability alone, allowing people to come
in and it. You know, I fucking love the way
you carry yourself and scoring a point and hair flipping,
you know, you know what frat well beating on your
(42:12):
chest is the same thing. I don't want to see it, Like,
go find you celebrate different. We're going to celebrate different.
Keep it pushing, But like, how has that been to hold?
Because two things can be true beautiful platform to create
change and you're doing that, but also like it opens
the floodgates for trolls. So how are you holding it
(42:32):
all together?
Speaker 3 (42:34):
I think I'm handling it pretty well. I feel like
it's just you know, a part for the course with
you know, love and hate. And luckily I've surrounded myself
with a very very comfortable and loving community and friends.
And to me, my friends are my family, and luckily
(42:54):
all of my friends are I don't say luckily, but
a lot of my very very close, tight knit friends
of about or ten people are all part of the
LGBTQ community and all play volleyball, so they understand both
facets of kind of you know, being gay but then
also being an athlete. And I think that is really
beneficial because we can really understand each other's lives and
what we're going through at the same time. And with
(43:17):
the trolls and you know, the people who leave hate comments,
like to me like, I've never really let them bother me,
and I feel like, you know, people always say that,
but to me like I I don't because I just don't.
I could never understand leaving a hate comment or something
negative on someone's post because it's taking time out of
your day to be like, oh my gosh, that is
so gay, Oh my gosh, Like this is horrible, like
(43:40):
and I'm just like, okay, Well, like on Instagram, on TikTok, whatever,
there's a button that you can just click, don't show
me anymore. And like when people like say this stuff,
I'm like it's coming from inside because people who are
secure with themselves and understand who they are and are
fully fully sure of person they're becoming doesn't and won't
(44:02):
spew this negative hatred and these oh my gosh, he's
what is he doing for the sport? Oh my gosh,
this is such a bad look for men's athletics. It's
actually not. It's inspiring younger people to really get in
tune with who they are and shine within athletics, but
then also find who they are outside the sports.
Speaker 1 (44:23):
M do you ever get tired of being brave? Because
you just sound like very brave and like it's so
comfortable in your skin, But like, are there days you
just want to be a volleyball player and not this
big symbol of hope to a lot of young kids.
Speaker 3 (44:40):
Yeah, there are sometimes where I think about that where
it's like kind of just my whole life did like
a three sixty or one eighty I forgot what the term?
Speaker 1 (44:49):
Yeah, I get it.
Speaker 3 (44:50):
And yeah, it's just like weird in a way because
it's like you go from a normal person, like you know,
and then i' month later it's like, oh my gosh,
the people are infatuated with you and love seeing you
play and love the person you are and love that
all you're doing for the lgbt Q plus community but
(45:10):
for the volleyball community, and you know, I'm just I'm
really grateful for it. But it's also like sometimes I'm like, oh,
I kind of miss my like normal life of just
like waking up and you know, hanging out and seeing friends.
And you know, I do miss that aspect a little bit.
Speaker 1 (45:27):
I imagine it because what people don't understand is the visibility
peace takes something from you because you also become a target. Yeah,
and that's a whole other topic. We could be here
for days, but I love that you have boundaries. I
love that you're protecting your peace because what I've learned
as a forty year old woman now who has lived
(45:50):
in you know, quite a bit of the spotlight most
of her life. If you don't have that, people will
take take, take, take, take, take, take until you have
nothing left. And I respect at such a young age
you understand the assignment and you're protecting your peace. You
have a great community of people who support you, and
(46:10):
you know exactly who the fuck you are, so you
know you stand ten toes down and you don't let
those people sway, affect or change the way you move.
And to me, that's powerful. And we're recording this during
Pride Month, which so many people, as you know, depending
on where you're at in your journey, like it's hard,
(46:32):
it's a lot. We don't all live this joy and
sense of freedom where your dad says, girl, I knew
you were gay. I raised you. You know what I mean.
Not everyone gets safety and joy and love to you know,
life to live out loud. So I'm curious in this
time where politics are wonky and we have a really
(46:55):
strange orange man in the office. We won't say names,
but like, what is Pride mean to you today?
Speaker 3 (47:02):
I think this year more than ever, it means self
expression and it's giving hope to younger people and older
people that aren't fully themselves yet to really just understand
that it's okay to be who you want to be
(47:22):
and that once you find your community, like you'll be set.
And I've said this to many people I meet that
you have to be your biggest fan. That's in life,
that's in sports, that's in anything you put your mind to,
because at the end of the day, if you don't
have your own back, no one else will. And that's
something that I've really, at the age of twenty, started
(47:46):
to understand that you have to be your biggest advocate.
And that's one thing that I'm just doing now. So
for Pride, I feel like it's self expression and it's
self advocacy are the two biggest things that I hope people,
you know, take away this pride or start to understand.
This pride is be who you want to be and
show all the colors of yourself, but also advocate for
(48:08):
who you are and what you believe in and everything
that makes you you.
Speaker 1 (48:13):
Yeah, in a world that makes us want to shrink
and feel small, I'm like, take more space, do more
hair flips, twork more on the core. I'm like, we
need to take more space. But you talk about hope,
and I think that is an important thing to kind
of close this out, because I really want to know,
(48:34):
and I am hopeful if we get to have this
conversation in ten years, what is your hope for the
future of queerman's you know, queer male athletes and sport.
Speaker 3 (48:46):
I hope that there's more of them over the next
five to ten years that either come out while playing
the sport or are already out getting into the sport.
And I think it's going to be super powerful if
that does happen, because it'll break the social norm that
you know, football players have to act this way, that
(49:08):
basketball players have to act this way, and it's you
don't and kind of what we said earlier. If you
have talent, you can act and really be who you
want to be on the court, on the field, whatever
it may be. And that's my hope that like this
is a spark plug and kind of ignites a little
bit of a well, I can really be myself regardless
(49:31):
of who whatever people think, because I'm good at the sport.
And so that's what I hope it, especially like for
male athletes, like I feel like they always try and
fit this mold and they always you see so many
cookie cutter male athletes just okay, here's another one. Here's
another one. It's like, who's going to be that Christmas
(49:52):
tree cookie instead of the like just little circle one,
you know, something like that. That's my cool.
Speaker 1 (50:00):
It's important, And I want to use this last moment
because there are a lot of queer people who listen
to this podcast. And if a young athlete is listening
right now and someone who's scared, hiding, questioning whether they've
ever belonged, what do you want them to know? Especially
through your story.
Speaker 3 (50:21):
There will be a lot of trials and tribulations through
everyone's life, and even your own right, and everyone deals
with their own crosses that they kind of hold on
their backs, and it's how do you get through that
effectively but also right with still enough pace to it
(50:42):
to allow you to fully realize who you are? And
once you come to that kind of part of your life,
really understand that it's you that you are supposed to be,
where you are, you're supposed to be who you're with,
you're supposed to be at whatever specific time in life
(51:04):
that is, that it'll dawn on you that this is you.
And once that happens, fully run with it, Fully run
with it, and just take it by the horns and
start to live life.
Speaker 1 (51:17):
It's so true. And what I love you know most
about this conversation is that you remind us that visibility
really matters, Jordan, and not because everyone has to become
a symbol, but being It's just because seeing someone live
authentically like it can completely change what's possible for someone else.
(51:41):
And your story isn't just about being a queer gay athlete.
It's about belonging. It's about courage. It's about refusing to
shrink yourself to make other people comfortable, and I genuinely
think you do it every single day, every time you
step foot on the court. So Jan thank you for
being wide Open, thank you for being here, and yeah,
(52:05):
thank you for paving a new path forward for a
lot of young boys, and we're just so happy to
have you on.
Speaker 3 (52:13):
Well, thank you so much to Ashland, to you and
the entire Wide Open team. I had such a great
time getting to chat with you and just kind of
get to hear your perspective on things and then obviously
in return my perspective, and I thank you so much
for this. I had such a great time and kind
of what I always say, Ashland, We're pretty, we're hot,
We're everything they're not.
Speaker 1 (52:35):
You know that, you know that's right y. Well, thanks
everyone for tuning in to another episode of Wide Open.
Thank you so much Jordan for being here, and we
will see you all next week.
Hi everyone, and welcome back to another episode of Wide Open.
I am so so happy to be here and I'm
excited for another video diary because I miss you guys.
I love unpacking what's going on in the world, how
everyone's doing. Hello, it's still pride. We have so many
things to catch up on and talk about. First and foremost,
(00:24):
the World Cup kicked off, Like how exciting is that.
I just have to say I was so impressed by
it by our men's team. That home opening game for
US against Paraguay was probably one of the best games
I've seen our men in terms of a collective collective performance.
(00:45):
Oh my god, it was absolutely unbelievable. The World Cup
for me is just the best time of year, and
it only comes every four years. It's just like everything
is so exciting during this time. Not to mention, it's pride,
it's soccer, It's all the things I love and won.
(01:06):
But also it's like soccer is what unites us. Soccer
football how wherever you are in the world. I just
it just has a universal language of joy and bringing
joy to people, and you're just seeing all these beautiful
stories unfold. I think this is going to be a
great in terms of just full on performance. This could
(01:31):
be one of the hardest World Cups we're going to see.
I think the parody is so tight. You know, you
saw the Spain come in and didn't have the performance
they wanted. I don't think Brazil had the performance they wanted.
But it just shows you can't count anyone out. Some
of these under underdog teams are you know, gonna give
(01:52):
a lot of these big federations a run for their money,
because any given day in football, anyone can win. And
I love that about sports. But listen, we can't talk
about the World Cup without talking about the Knicks. Wow,
what a what a performance these guys put in sports
(02:15):
right now in New York City are absolutely popping. The
city is electric. Sophia and I were. We were clearly
in the city. We were thirty five floors up and
we didn't sleep. We didn't sleep a wink. I mean, honestly,
it was so loud. People were going ham It was
incredible to see from afar or high up. I wasn't
(02:39):
down there in the ruffle of everyone going nuts and
running to the street. But it just shows what sports
does to us. Like the city is happy. The commercial
that said, New York City can finally sleep. It's just
(02:59):
so true. Everything about the way we.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Move is just really beautiful about how sports is the
through line in that and connecting people, and what a
beautiful time to be living right now to actually get
to see everything.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
And this next person we have on the podcast today,
Jordan Lucas, you guys are gonna love. He is the
epitome of what choosing yourself, choosing joy and choosing the
sport you love intersects to something very powerful. Jordan is
(03:40):
absolutely changing the landscape of not only volleyball, but queer
men showing up in sports and being exactly who they are,
being authentic, just powerful story of what he's doing and
carrying the weight of a lot on his back at
such an early age. I'm so excited for you guys
(04:02):
all to hear this conversation, so let's get into it.
Welcome to Wide Open. This is Jordan Lucas. Hi everyone,
and welcome back to another episode of Wide Open. I'm
your host, Ashlyn Harris. Today's conversation is about courage, not
(04:26):
the kind of courage we celebrate on scoreboards or highlight reels,
but the kind it takes to show up as yourself
in spaces that haven't always made room for that. Jordan
Lucas is one of the most recognizable faces in men's
volleyball currently. He's a Division one athlete and openly gay man,
and part of a new generation of athletes changing what
(04:47):
visibility looks like in sports. Today, we're talking about masculinity,
locker rooms, belonging, pride, social media backlash, and what it
means to choose authenticity in a world that's constantly trying
to define you. Everyone, welcome Jordan to the show. This
is Wide Open. We are so happy you're here in
(05:08):
happy pride.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
Thank you so much Ashlin for having me on Wide Open.
I am so excited and happy pride to you as well.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Oh thanks, honey. I'll tell you what I adore you.
You don't know me, but I follow you. I am
so into your content. It has changed my life. I
was actually at a World Cup event last night for
US Soccer and New York or nowhere, and everyone was like,
please come to our pickup game, and I was like,
(05:36):
I have Jordan on my podcast tomorrow. Everyone knew exactly
who you are. Everyone was like, oh my god, he's
serving more than volley's let's just say that you're a
big hit in the community. I mean, and truthfully, I
was amongst a lot of like straight white men, and
I was like, damn, y'all know too, we're really getting somewhere.
(06:00):
But you came from a family of basketball players, So
what like, what was what did volleyball give you that
basketball couldn't. I'm so curious.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
I think, you know, being in a basketball family, it's
very very masculine and a very you know, raw, that
type of thing, and I just wasn't the biggest fan
of that, and I honestly didn't really like the physical
contact of basketball, and volleyball was kind of just there
(06:30):
for me. When I told my parents I didn't want
to play basketball at around eleven twelve years old, They're like, okay,
that's totally fine, but you need to play another sport
then yep, And I was like okay. So then I
started to pick up volleyball and kind of that's like
the history of it all. It's more of I didn't
(06:51):
want to play basketball, so then volleyball was there. My
dad is the local high school basketball coach at our
local high school, and so the volleyball team practice before
his and so I would always be in the gym
and kind of see the balls and the girls peppering
and the girls hitting, and one day the high school
volley because I was like, hey, Jordan, do you want
to hop in and kind of just play a little bit?
(07:13):
And I was like, sure, I love that. And then
that was around twelve years old. And then and then yeah,
that's kind of where my love for volleyball started. And
then obviously when you're good at something, you want to
pursue it even more. And that's kind of what has
transpired over the last eight years of my volleyball career.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Oh, I love that. I'm curious though, for you, growing
up in such a heavy sport family, what did masculinity
look like in your house and how did you move
differently and how like at what point where you're like, m,
that's not for me. I'm I'm okay over here. I'm
(07:51):
going to be exactly who I am.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
I would say from a pretty young age, I knew
that I wasn't really into a lot of masculine things.
I would say I was obsessed when I was younger
with dancing and cheerleading, and I like to this day
I may bring it on diehard fan, and so I
think those were little tall tale signs for myself and
(08:16):
for my family. But you know, at such a young age,
you don't really realize that. And as I was starting
to grow up, I was like, Okay, Like, my dad's
a more stoic person, so he doesn't really show a
lot of emotion. But my brother, on the other hand,
is very macho, very loves the masculine kind of you
know parts of him and all of that stuff. And
(08:38):
so I think seeing that, I was like, Okay, like,
you know, that's cool for you. I'm not really feeling that. Yeah.
And so then kind of all of these influences when
I was younger, my mom and my aunts and bring
it on and cheerleading and I did gymnastics when I
was younger, which not a lot of people know, and
(09:00):
so kind of getting in touch with the more fluidity
side of me and more free and more fun kind
of kind of pushed me into this realm and path
of going into volleyball and then kind of figuring out
who I was.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
I love that. What do you think your earliest memory
was of someone actually celebrating your femininity instead of asking
you to hide it? Do you remember that, or maybe
no one was celebrating it and you felt like you
had to hide it.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
I would say it was my grandmother, who I'm still
very close with. She used to have these dolls, and
I used to spend like summers at my grandma's house
for like two to three months, where like I just
wouldn't see my parents, and she had this like little
box of dolls, and I was probably in third or
(09:53):
fourth grade, and I would just like play with them
and they were like so fun to me. And I
remember she like the the first time she saw me
with it, she was like, what are you doing? And
then as she caught on, She's like, oh, okay, and
then kind of would be like bring her dolls out
for me to play with them. So that was probably
the first real memory I have of people like accepting
(10:15):
not saying dolls are feminine, but you know they're more
of a feminine toy or something like that. And so
that was kind of the first I guess celebration or
allowing me to really have fun in whatever toy or
masculine or femine wanted to kind of pursue.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
When you think back to that young boy who started sports,
did you feel safe. Did you feel like there was
a place for you or was it not only were
you performing on the court, you had to perform off
of it.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
I lived two different lives from I would say age
twelve to probably age seventeen to eighteen. Those five to
six years, I felt like I had my volleyball life,
which was the freedom, the self expression, the passion that
people see now kind of and all these viral clips
(11:07):
and all that, and then I had my like at
home life and my friend life, and I never thought
I'd be able to merge the two, and it was
just something I dealt with internally because I was like,
how how do I keep the same person but also
have the different facets of myself that people like about
(11:30):
me and other facets where people don't like about me
right or aren't as accepting of it. And I think
now at the age I came out at sixteen to
my family and friends, and so at that time, like
my parents knew, some friends knew. And then I think
once I got into college and really started to be
(11:52):
aware of just other people, and like, you know, there's
so many different walks of life, and I was like, oh, well,
like this is kind of normal. In a way, like
the feelings you're feeling, and you know, being an athlete.
It kind of opened up a lot of doors and
allowed me to really fully be myself. And that's why
I will forever thank volleyball for it, because I will
never change who I am on the court because the
(12:13):
sport's given me so much, so many friends and life
lessons and opportunities.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
I love that and that's so well put. But I
think what people don't know in terms of those who
live outside of our beautiful queer community is coming out
isn't one moment. It's like hundreds of moments. I remember
even telling me. I was so scared to tell my
dad and he picked me up from the airport from
(12:41):
coming home from college, you know, probably my senior year,
and I was like, okay, well he can't run, he
can't leave. He like we're trapped in this damn car
and we're gonna have this hard, hard conversation. And I
remember just being like, I'm I'm not dating anymore. I'm
dating women, and I just want to tell you. And
(13:04):
he it was so funny because he was like, girl,
I raised you. I knew I was just waiting a
moment for you to own it and like live it.
But it was so cute. He was just like, girl,
I raised you, I know, but I'm curious for you,
what moment for you? Because I was so scared and
(13:27):
terrified and I didn't see people who look like me
in childhood, so I didn't understand queerness or why I
moved so differently, or why I didn't want to put
my hair up. And I always wanted to like be
a tomboy. Like there were signs. There were plenty of like, girl,
we knew, but tell me about when you decided you
didn't want to hide anymore and you were going to
(13:48):
own it. You were just like, this is me and
I'm I'm gonna the only thing I can do is
show up and be exactly myself. At what point did
you decide to do that in a sport that maybe
doesn't really make space for people like us.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
Well, first off, I love that, but you and your dad,
I love that. That is super cool. But for myself,
I would say at probably age eighteen was when I
was like, I'm really gonna just take ownership of it all.
And there's videos of me when I was younger, fourteen, fifteen,
(14:27):
sixteen years old were very theatrical, a lot more theatrical
and passionate than I am now. And I've tried to
and I lessen that at around sixteen to seventeen, just
going through my college recruitment, because I found out that
that was a lot of a reason why college coaches
and college programs weren't that fond of me was because
(14:48):
of the theatrics and the antics and all of that.
And at eighteen, once I committed to Grant Can University,
I was like, well, I'm already committed, already came out
to my family. I have this immense skill in volleyball.
Just start really like amping it up and bringing it
back to like when you were fourteen and fifteen years old. Yeah,
(15:11):
there's no need to hide this person that people love.
And when I went into college volleyball my freshman year,
I think for a lot of people, especially my teammates
at the time, were like what is this? And it
took them a couple months for them to understand who
I was and kind of respect the game that I
(15:32):
can play too. And I was fortunate enough to start
my freshman year at GCU and be our starting liberro
and have we had great success we made it to
the elite AID, and I think that gained a lot
of people's respect for me, not only at our program
but from the world of men's volleyball, and then has
kind of progressed until you know, the last three years
(15:55):
where you know, people are really falling in love with
who I am and what I bring to the court
and the authenticity that people see, because I think in
sports many people have that like inner saboteur and that's
one thing that I feel like all us as all
athletes have, but it's how do you get over that
as soon as possible? And I think that's one thing.
(16:17):
It's like people just want to watch you and want
to see you know how you are and the freeness
and the self expression that you have on the court.
And that's just one thing that like I've always tried
to be is like a positive light and try and
give people like you can be whoever the hell you
want to be in athletics. And you know, people can
(16:39):
take it or leave it, but I always say, you
know you're still watching.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Yeah, You're still entertain always entertained. And I do think
this as queer athletes, I think we're often there's a
moment when you realize your existence becomes bigger than your sport.
It happens a lot like when you think about queer
people in sport. It's a it goes so much further
(17:06):
beyond the playing field. When did that moment really clock
for you? Because your life, I imagine changed very quickly
and went very viral and I didn't have that, you know,
I didn't have social media in college. I didn't have
it at the beginning of my career. So it's you're
living such a different like landscape and you can reach
(17:31):
so many people and it's not that like you were,
you were just being you. But what you don't realize
the impact of you choosing yourself now is way larger
than volleyball, Like it just is. And when did that
moment really clock for you that you were like, Oh,
this is going to be big and it's going to
(17:53):
be impactful.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
It was probably So the whole thing that happened at
you see, was April ninth, and then we had two
days until our senior night, and then the viral video
got posted on Sunday, so it was like a four
day timespan, and so when that video got posted, I
was like, Okay, you know, it's a great video, like
I'll probably do maybe a couple million views, like because
(18:17):
you know, all the celebrations and the volleyball and myself
and all that hu and then I think overnight it
got posted Sunday at like five pm. And then the
following morning I was going to practice and it was
already at like six million views within like twelve hours,
and I was just like oh. And then the thing
that really made me like kind of clock what you
(18:37):
said was it was that after that video, like I
would say, the video got so Sunday and then Wednesdays
when all these major news outlets got hold of the story,
and it was honestly ABC Worldwide News that when they
reached out to me, I was like.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
Oh, oh shit, like yep.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
Okay, I yeah. It was very much that moment, and
and luckily we still had like three games left of
the season, so the build up was like even bigger
and even bigger. And I think that was the first
moment I was like, Oh, this is gonna really be something.
And then kind of that's history, Like this morning I
(19:20):
was just on Good Morning America. Wow, So that was
really crazy to see.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
I love this.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
This did a lot of great opportunities, but like it's
it's super crazy, Like it was ABC Worldwide News and
then CNN reached out to me to go on air
at like eleven PM, Like that was really crazy. Like
there's just been so many great things that have came
out of this, and you know the amount of attention
that's not only been brought to myself but to the
(19:47):
sport of men's volleyball and the sport of volleyball as
a whole. Like it's really cool to see because you know,
we're not a football, a basketball, a soccer, Like we're
not at these grand grand events. We don't have, you know,
the Super Bowl or the FIFA World Cup or things
like that. So to kind of see us get our
flowers a little bit is really cool.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Stay tuned. I'll be back in just a moment after
this brief message from our sponsors. I also think, you know,
at some point, whether you ask for it or not,
people start seeing themselves in your story. And I say
this often as a woman who is queer in sport.
(20:31):
Safety was never an issue for me. We outnumbered the
straight girlies, right, That is the that is just not
the case. And men's sports and statistically, honey, we know,
we know that there are little hunks up in those
locker rooms who feel like they can't be themselves. Yeah,
(20:55):
and you know, on the back end of heated rivalry,
and like, you guys are really showing that you can
live your truth like it is okay. It doesn't make
you less of a performer a person. How you show
up in that locker room. Have you seen any ripples?
Have you noticed anyone writing you in your DMS or
(21:19):
messaging you being like, well, like, this is giving me
the courage to live my truth out loud because we
need more safety in men's sports for queer people because
they are in there. We have gay people in men's
locker rooms that feel like they have to hide that
because it might affect their bottom line. They might get
(21:41):
cut or you know, they might not want to shower
with me, Like, how do you feel about this? What
are the messages?
Speaker 3 (21:48):
Like?
Speaker 1 (21:49):
How has this changed a lot when it comes to
being very open about living your truth and being fucking
good at volleyball and two things can be true and
it's okay, it's okay.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
Yeah, the outpour of support has been amazing, and you know,
you get the DMS and you read them of little
kids saying, oh my gosh, I am so you know,
enamored by you and all that you do for not
only the sport, but for you know, the LGBTQ plus community.
And I think something that really hit home for me
(22:23):
was I coach youth volleyball. I've been doing it for
the last four years, and so I coached a sixteen's
team in a seventeens team, and being within the youth
realm of volleyball, I'm starting to see a lot more
out gay kids play the sport, like at sixteen seventeen
then I did like five or six years ago in
amateur volleyball. So for me, that is so so cool
(22:46):
because I'm like, wow, like like kids nowadays are really
like being in tune with themselves at such a younger
age than you know, five or six years ago. And
this instance happened this past Sunday actually at this amateur
or this youth club volleyball tournament I was coaching at
this mom comes up to me. She's like, hey, Jormin,
(23:07):
my son and are huge fans. You're like, oh my gosh, okay.
We take a photo and the son is probably nine
years old, or he is nine years old and she
he takes a photo with me and he's like really
happy and the mom goes, Jordan, thank you so much.
He came out to us at seven. Wow exactly. I
was like what and she was like, yeah, like he's
(23:29):
obsessed with your videos. He like he's your super fan.
He's the cutest little kid, and so it was. It
was so that to me was a moment where I
was like, oh my gosh, like affecting younger kids' lives
and showing that you can be queer and still have
a space for you in sports. I told myself at
(23:52):
when I started volleyball at thirteen years old that when
I leave volleyball, whenever that time is retire, I hope
that I have made an impact in volleyball and the
most positive way that I can. And I can now say,
although my career isn't over, that hopefully I have made
this impact that will transcend for the next five to
(24:14):
ten years for people to really hone who they are
and their identity and show that on not only the
volleyball court, but you know, the basketball court, the football field,
the track and field, like any realm. So it's okay
it's okay to be gay, It's okay to feel all
the emotions you're feeling, because at the end of the day,
there is a community who will have your back. You
(24:37):
just have to find that.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
It's so beautifully put. And I think what people also
don't get is there's a big responsibility that comes with this,
that comes with being one of the first that lives
their truth out loud that most people haven't seen. Do
you ever feel like that type of pressure to get
it right because now people are watching more than ever and.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
A certain capacity. Yeah, definitely. I kind of what you
brought up earlier, Ashland, Like, I was just playing volleyball,
and I think that's the one thing that's so trippy
to me. It's like the way that I've played the
sport I love for the last eight years has finally
caught fire in this you know, huge virality way, and
it's like, well, how how do you now go into this?
(25:25):
How do you now explore this realm? How how does
this happen? And I think that's one thing I'm I'm
proud and willing to take on and kind of be
at the forefront of this. I don't want to say revolution,
but this kind of like new way of thinking for
male athletes or yeah, male queer athletes in male sports.
(25:45):
And I think it's really cool because as you've seen,
like in the NFL, there's one or two out athletes
in the NBA that we just had Jason Collins recently
pass away. I think that's one thing that the women's
athletes are superior in that is that they are really
owning who they are. They have the women's soccer team
(26:07):
a lot of people that are lesbian, and the WNBA
many people who are lesbian. Bronna Stewart, like, you have
so many representation in women's sports where women can look
up to you all and see like, oh my gosh,
there is a light for us. And then the men's side,
like kind of what you said earlier, there's just not
that much representation. And it just doesn't make sense to me,
(26:29):
because like, if you're talented at the sport, then you
should be able to really be like, well, you can
take it or leave it. Yeah, And that's kind of
what I'm doing. I'm like, you can take it or
leave it, either you like me or you don't.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
Fact. But I think what it boils down to Jordan
and I want to get into this because I do
think it's important. It's the locker room talk. It's always
the fucking locker room talk. It makes me crazy. Yeah,
like even for like really weird home of fuck. Trust me,
we've had some homophobes up in our locker rooms too,
(27:03):
being like, uh, showering, don't look at bitch, I'm not
looking at you. I'm not looking at you. I'm not
attracted to you. I'm here to perform, I'm here to play.
But I think we have to go there because unfortunately,
that is where often people's minds go, especially for gay men,
Like you can have a little boy. I was watching
(27:23):
this person. I'm not gonna rage bait them because I
hate that, but this person put up a young boy
who was really into makeup, and this little boy was
putting on all this makeup, and this shitty human was like,
we need to bring back bullying, we need to do this,
and we need to stop having our kids turn gay.
(27:45):
And it's like everyone's mind immediately goes to sexualizing what
this fucking little boy just likes makeup. He doesn't have
to like. It has nothing to do with who he
so chooses to love or what he's that boy is
a boy. You fucking creep stop And I want to
(28:08):
go there because so many people think instead of like
having an education, like an educated thought about okay, well great,
who they love should not affect how they perform or
how they play or how they move in a locker room.
What was it like for you stepping into college, Because
(28:30):
that's different than you know, when you shower together, you
travel together, it's a tight knit Like it's just different
than when you were a kid. Like, how has that
locker room progression been for you? Like did it change?
How are your teammates treating you? I'm curious of how
(28:50):
you feel, like do you feel safe with your team.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
At the school I was at prior not so much
at cal State Northridge. Yeah, because I feel like a
lot of the guys had respect for me and they
knew like that, you know, Jordan's a senior, like he's
been in the game for four years. Like it was
that type of feeling my freshman and sophomore year. Specifically,
(29:14):
my freshman year at Grand Canyon was very interesting for me,
just from the locker room perspective. So we played by
U and we had this kid on a visit and
I was like, why are you putting me? Like, why
am I going to be the person for this kid?
(29:35):
Because there had already been guys were like Jordan like
he does not like gay people. And my coach was like, oh, Jordan,
You're gonna be with him for the whole day.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
And I'm like, oh, hello, okay, yeah, and so.
Speaker 3 (29:47):
You know you have to you have to go to
the dinners and the lunches and all of that. And
one of my teammates at the time was like, and
the and the parents were very let's just say anti LGBTQ,
and so my team it was like, Jordan, wear like
your equality shirt and where I have these pride air
forces and I was like, you know what, I'm gonna
wear it for fun, like sure. And so I get
(30:09):
to the dinner and the dad immediately when we walk
in and sit down, the dad goes, what's your shirt?
And I remember, I'm like, oh, it's just a shirt
about love and equality and peace for all, like you know,
blah blah blah. It's like oh interesting, and I'm like, okay, whatever,
And so the whole dinner goes on and it was
like whatever, and I told my coach. I was like hey,
(30:31):
I'm not gonna bring this kid back, like he can
go with our assistant or whatever. And we're walking out
and my coach goes, ha, Drean, thanks so much for coming.
We really appreciate it. I'm like, yeah, for sure, like
of course, thanks for the free dinner, like yeah, we
really wanted to see how the parents would be with
you here. And I remember I looked at my coach
(30:54):
and I was like, fuck you, Oh my god. I
he was like Jordan. He was like, he said, Jordan,
it's not like that. It's not like that. And I'm like, no,
it is like that, and I get why you did this.
I said, so I don't want to talk to you
about it right now. And the following day he apologized
and blah blah blah blah, and then this this is
(31:16):
actually really interesting. The following match, so we played by U,
and then the following week we played Ball State and
so this is another locker room conversation. We just beat
Ball State and after every home game at GCU, we
used to play this song. I don't know if you
know this, like it's I forgot who it's bye, but
it's like a we want some per se A have
(31:39):
you heard it before. No, you could look it.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
Up at a college purning of it.
Speaker 3 (31:46):
In our locker room, so like, no one heard it besides.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
Okay, okay, got it. I thought you meant like at
the game this was playing.
Speaker 3 (31:53):
No, this was after we won the game. So we
won the game, and then we're in the locker room
and they're playing it. And at the time, my freshman year,
I was the only like really out person on our team.
We had another person on our team who was out
but like not really and him and I were friends.
And they're playing the song and our coach comes in
and goes, turn this off, turn this off, and everyone's like,
why we always played this song after we win a
(32:15):
match at home? And he's like, oh, because not everybody
in here likes pussy And I remember I was like,
got it.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
Not really the support I need, but okay.
Speaker 3 (32:27):
Yeah. And then another instance happened the following week. We
played at USC and I don't know if you're familiar
with volleyball courts, so we have terror flex, which is
like a really soft court, and then there's like the
hardwood court. Yeah, And so we played two matches at USC,
and one of the matches was gonna be on terror Flex.
Everyone was gonna be on hardwood. So we were having
(32:48):
this discussion amongst all the teammates and the coaches, and
everybody was like, oh, would you rather play on hardwood
or terror Flex? And I was like, Oh, I would
rather play on tear flex because I have to dive
a lot and like I just really have to hit
the so it's easier on the body. And my coach
was like, really, Jordan, I feel like you would prefer
hardwood more.
Speaker 4 (33:06):
I remember it was just like oh, Like I like
laughed and I was like, oh, oh now, And so
talking about locker room talking that stuff.
Speaker 3 (33:16):
That was like the only real instances that like I've
had that was like, oh, okay, I'm really getting judged
for like who I am. And the following week I talked,
I called my coach and I was like, Hey, I'm
going to set these boundaries with you, like I don't
know you like that, and you don't know me like that,
(33:36):
So please stop addressing me, especially in front of the
entire team, about these little innuendos and kind of slick
remarks said, because now the team is starting to say
those things to me.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
Yeah, it'll it's like you allow it, you allow the behavior,
and it's it's not I'm interested. Do you have teammates
in those moments like that? Have you're back? Like, how
have your teammates responded? Or how does that? Do you
have allyship in that in these locker rooms or does
(34:10):
everyone kind of do the quiet thing like they just
say nothing.
Speaker 3 (34:15):
Yeah, it's more of the bystander effect. And so a
lot of the stuff that happened at GCU for me
was at me. And when I was at cal State
Northridge the past year and a half, we had another person,
one of my best friends on the team. His name's Ben.
He's gay as well, and so obviously, you know, as
queer people are, we stick together with each other, of course,
(34:36):
and I was starting to notice that the guys on
our team this past season would say stuff to Ben,
but would never say anything to me, not about me,
but just about Ben. Would be like, oh my gosh, Ben,
like you're a fag, or be like oh my gosh,
like why are you so gay? And everything was always
directed towards him and never towards me. And we had
(34:57):
this big blow up in about October this past year,
and I was like whoever the fuck is saying this
shit to Ben, you can say it to me, because
I find it really funny that once I'm not in
the room, now you guys want to say all this shit.
When I'm in the room, no one wants to say
anything I said. So I find that funny that you
guys have the balls to say it to Ben but
(35:18):
not to me. Wow. And yeah, and so just not
a lot of I guess you like what you said, Allyship,
and a lot of people are just there and you know,
they they don't laugh, but they don't you know, they
don't egg on to it. So I think a lot
of that. And we brought that up to our coach
at cal State Northridge, and you know, he brushed it
off a majority of the time. This is like we
(35:40):
had like three instances of it. And so yeah, and
this is also another, you know, interesting thing that had happened.
So out of all of my four years of college athletics,
I really only want I wanted a pride night because
you know, you see it in soccer, you see it
in women's basketball, and I was like, what better thing
to do? And we go cal State Northbridge, a very
(36:01):
liberal school, and I was talking to my coach about
it in early October. I was like, hey, I really
would like to have a Pride Night, Like I just
want shirts and like the banner to be Pride Night,
that's it. And he was like okay, like we'll see
what we can do. And I was like, I can
even pay for the T shirts, like it's not that
big of a deal. It'd be like three hundred dollars.
(36:22):
And she's like, no, we'll see, we'll see, we'll see.
I circle back with him in December because I hadn't
heard anything about it, and he was like, oh, i'll
get back to you in January. I'm like, okay, okay,
sounds good whatever cause the game the game wasn't scheduled
to be till like March, so it's like, okay, that's fine.
And so I go to my coach in January and
I'm like, hey, do you know anything about Pride Night.
(36:44):
He's like, oh, that's that's not going to happen. I
was like okay, like you know, like and I already
dealt with a lot of that at GCU, so I
was like, you know, it's probably an administration thing. They
don't want to have the Pride night, like, I get it,
I don't want to go into deeper with it. And coincidentally,
the week later, my athletics director at our school was like, hey, Jordan,
(37:05):
I really want to talk to you about getting to
know you and like all this stuff. I'm like, okay, cool.
So I'm talking with them and I was like, hey, like,
I just want to know why was the Pride night
not allowed to happen? Why was it canceled or whatever?
And they were like, what do you mean, I've never
heard of a Pride night. No, And I was like
(37:27):
what And so I found out that my coach didn't
even tell our administrators, and my administrators were like, Jordan,
we love this idea, Like what like, oh my gosh,
blah bla blah blah blah blah blah blah. And so
it was myself, my coach, and our athletic director all
in a text thread and our athletic director was like, hey,
Jordan had this great idea about a Pride night blah
(37:48):
blah blah blah blah, like thoughts on it were thinking
about having it this time, And our coach, obviously that's
his boss, was like, oh my gosh, I love the idea,
let's do it, blah blah blah. And I was just like, dude, like,
now now that your boss is involved, now we want
to do it. Like like oh I was, I was fuming. Yeah,
(38:11):
And then I brought up the idea of having the shirts,
which I made the whole mock up design and everything,
and our admin said they weren't able to pay for it.
I was like, okay, I'll pay for it. Although I
talked to our equipment manager and we had another fifteen
hundred dollars left in our men's volleyball budget. I talked
to my coach and asked him if we could use that,
(38:32):
and he said no because it was for the summer,
the summer equipment and the jerseys and all that stuff. Okay,
so our athletic director bought little pins, like little like
you know, like like the breast cancer Yeah sign, it
was that, but just like tied, I no, yeah, and
(38:52):
that was our preadnight.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
Stay tuned. I'll be back in just a moment after
this brief message from our sponsors. Okay, so let's dive
into this because we have lived experience you totally a
totally different one. But I'm a little cunty queer. That's
about change. So I want to think about, in your opinion,
(39:17):
as you've lived in a lot of locker rooms, you know,
in your short little life that you've lived, because you're
a little young baby, how can we make sports safer
for the next generation of boys.
Speaker 3 (39:30):
And men understanding that, Like, it doesn't matter who the
hell you are off the court, that you can perform
and you have talent. It doesn't matter if you like boys, girls,
nobody if you if you prefer to do this instead
of this, if you prefer to go to the gay
(39:50):
club in West Hollywood opposed to the straight clubs down
in Newport, like whatever the case may be. Like, if
you have talent in your sport, that should only be
looked at correct.
Speaker 1 (40:01):
And that's so well put because you know, I, I'm
so tired of us having to educate people. And we
talk about this with home, you know, homophobes, we talk
about it, people who are racist. It's not always our
job to educate you. You have to educate yourself. You
(40:22):
have like coaching one oh one is creating a safe environment.
How are we going to get the best out of
every single kid here and make them feel safe and seen? Period?
We're not wondering what they're doing behind closed doors, or
who they're choosing so to love or whatever type of
people are fucking weird. It's not even it's not a
(40:43):
gay thing. It's plenty of weird ass straight people out
there that have weird kinks. No one's asking them questions. Ugh,
I could be here all day, honey, I'll tell you
what you your life has really like, I didn't have
social media, you know, I didn't have the ability to,
like you have a you have soldiers of queer people
(41:05):
behind you right now, fuck around and find out at
its finest. Let me be very queer. Let me be
very queer. Oh my god, that was really funny, ding dong.
Let me be very queer. I mean clear, But like
this explosion of attention and visibility, like is it's a
lot And I imagine it's been Like we've talked about it.
(41:27):
It's such a surreal moment. But is it Also it's
it's beautiful because it's a moment to educate and you're
doing that and every interview and every moment, like you're
really educating people. And I want to talk about this
because I've seen some backlash. I've seen what people are saying, Like,
(41:50):
you know, people have opinions, and that is the scary
part of social media. That is the scary part of
opening that door of vulnerability alone, allowing people to come
in and it. You know, I fucking love the way
you carry yourself and scoring a point and hair flipping,
you know, you know what frat well beating on your
(42:12):
chest is the same thing. I don't want to see it, Like,
go find you celebrate different. We're going to celebrate different.
Keep it pushing, But like, how has that been to hold?
Because two things can be true beautiful platform to create
change and you're doing that, but also like it opens
the floodgates for trolls. So how are you holding it
(42:32):
all together?
Speaker 3 (42:34):
I think I'm handling it pretty well. I feel like
it's just you know, a part for the course with
you know, love and hate. And luckily I've surrounded myself
with a very very comfortable and loving community and friends.
And to me, my friends are my family, and luckily
(42:54):
all of my friends are I don't say luckily, but
a lot of my very very close, tight knit friends
of about or ten people are all part of the
LGBTQ community and all play volleyball, so they understand both
facets of kind of you know, being gay but then
also being an athlete. And I think that is really
beneficial because we can really understand each other's lives and
what we're going through at the same time. And with
(43:17):
the trolls and you know, the people who leave hate comments,
like to me like, I've never really let them bother me,
and I feel like, you know, people always say that,
but to me like I I don't because I just don't.
I could never understand leaving a hate comment or something
negative on someone's post because it's taking time out of
your day to be like, oh my gosh, that is
so gay, Oh my gosh, Like this is horrible, like
(43:40):
and I'm just like, okay, Well, like on Instagram, on TikTok, whatever,
there's a button that you can just click, don't show
me anymore. And like when people like say this stuff,
I'm like it's coming from inside because people who are
secure with themselves and understand who they are and are
fully fully sure of person they're becoming doesn't and won't
(44:02):
spew this negative hatred and these oh my gosh, he's
what is he doing for the sport? Oh my gosh,
this is such a bad look for men's athletics. It's
actually not. It's inspiring younger people to really get in
tune with who they are and shine within athletics, but
then also find who they are outside the sports.
Speaker 1 (44:23):
M do you ever get tired of being brave? Because
you just sound like very brave and like it's so
comfortable in your skin, But like, are there days you
just want to be a volleyball player and not this
big symbol of hope to a lot of young kids.
Speaker 3 (44:40):
Yeah, there are sometimes where I think about that where
it's like kind of just my whole life did like
a three sixty or one eighty I forgot what the term?
Speaker 1 (44:49):
Yeah, I get it.
Speaker 3 (44:50):
And yeah, it's just like weird in a way because
it's like you go from a normal person, like you know,
and then i' month later it's like, oh my gosh,
the people are infatuated with you and love seeing you
play and love the person you are and love that
all you're doing for the lgbt Q plus community but
(45:10):
for the volleyball community, and you know, I'm just I'm
really grateful for it. But it's also like sometimes I'm like, oh,
I kind of miss my like normal life of just
like waking up and you know, hanging out and seeing friends.
And you know, I do miss that aspect a little bit.
Speaker 1 (45:27):
I imagine it because what people don't understand is the visibility
peace takes something from you because you also become a target. Yeah,
and that's a whole other topic. We could be here
for days, but I love that you have boundaries. I
love that you're protecting your peace because what I've learned
as a forty year old woman now who has lived
(45:50):
in you know, quite a bit of the spotlight most
of her life. If you don't have that, people will
take take, take, take, take, take, take until you have
nothing left. And I respect at such a young age
you understand the assignment and you're protecting your peace. You
have a great community of people who support you, and
(46:10):
you know exactly who the fuck you are, so you
know you stand ten toes down and you don't let
those people sway, affect or change the way you move.
And to me, that's powerful. And we're recording this during
Pride Month, which so many people, as you know, depending
on where you're at in your journey, like it's hard,
(46:32):
it's a lot. We don't all live this joy and
sense of freedom where your dad says, girl, I knew
you were gay. I raised you. You know what I mean.
Not everyone gets safety and joy and love to you know,
life to live out loud. So I'm curious in this
time where politics are wonky and we have a really
(46:55):
strange orange man in the office. We won't say names,
but like, what is Pride mean to you today?
Speaker 3 (47:02):
I think this year more than ever, it means self
expression and it's giving hope to younger people and older
people that aren't fully themselves yet to really just understand
that it's okay to be who you want to be
(47:22):
and that once you find your community, like you'll be set.
And I've said this to many people I meet that
you have to be your biggest fan. That's in life,
that's in sports, that's in anything you put your mind to,
because at the end of the day, if you don't
have your own back, no one else will. And that's
something that I've really, at the age of twenty, started
(47:46):
to understand that you have to be your biggest advocate.
And that's one thing that I'm just doing now. So
for Pride, I feel like it's self expression and it's
self advocacy are the two biggest things that I hope people,
you know, take away this pride or start to understand.
This pride is be who you want to be and
show all the colors of yourself, but also advocate for
(48:08):
who you are and what you believe in and everything
that makes you you.
Speaker 1 (48:13):
Yeah, in a world that makes us want to shrink
and feel small, I'm like, take more space, do more
hair flips, twork more on the core. I'm like, we
need to take more space. But you talk about hope,
and I think that is an important thing to kind
of close this out, because I really want to know,
(48:34):
and I am hopeful if we get to have this
conversation in ten years, what is your hope for the
future of queerman's you know, queer male athletes and sport.
Speaker 3 (48:46):
I hope that there's more of them over the next
five to ten years that either come out while playing
the sport or are already out getting into the sport.
And I think it's going to be super powerful if
that does happen, because it'll break the social norm that
you know, football players have to act this way, that
(49:08):
basketball players have to act this way, and it's you
don't and kind of what we said earlier. If you
have talent, you can act and really be who you
want to be on the court, on the field, whatever
it may be. And that's my hope that like this
is a spark plug and kind of ignites a little
bit of a well, I can really be myself regardless
(49:31):
of who whatever people think, because I'm good at the sport.
And so that's what I hope it, especially like for
male athletes, like I feel like they always try and
fit this mold and they always you see so many
cookie cutter male athletes just okay, here's another one. Here's
another one. It's like, who's going to be that Christmas
(49:52):
tree cookie instead of the like just little circle one,
you know, something like that. That's my cool.
Speaker 1 (50:00):
It's important, And I want to use this last moment
because there are a lot of queer people who listen
to this podcast. And if a young athlete is listening
right now and someone who's scared, hiding, questioning whether they've
ever belonged, what do you want them to know? Especially
through your story.
Speaker 3 (50:21):
There will be a lot of trials and tribulations through
everyone's life, and even your own right, and everyone deals
with their own crosses that they kind of hold on
their backs, and it's how do you get through that
effectively but also right with still enough pace to it
(50:42):
to allow you to fully realize who you are? And
once you come to that kind of part of your life,
really understand that it's you that you are supposed to be,
where you are, you're supposed to be who you're with,
you're supposed to be at whatever specific time in life
(51:04):
that is, that it'll dawn on you that this is you.
And once that happens, fully run with it, Fully run
with it, and just take it by the horns and
start to live life.
Speaker 1 (51:17):
It's so true. And what I love you know most
about this conversation is that you remind us that visibility
really matters, Jordan, and not because everyone has to become
a symbol, but being It's just because seeing someone live
authentically like it can completely change what's possible for someone else.
(51:41):
And your story isn't just about being a queer gay athlete.
It's about belonging. It's about courage. It's about refusing to
shrink yourself to make other people comfortable, and I genuinely
think you do it every single day, every time you
step foot on the court. So Jan thank you for
being wide Open, thank you for being here, and yeah,
(52:05):
thank you for paving a new path forward for a
lot of young boys, and we're just so happy to
have you on.
Speaker 3 (52:13):
Well, thank you so much to Ashland, to you and
the entire Wide Open team. I had such a great
time getting to chat with you and just kind of
get to hear your perspective on things and then obviously
in return my perspective, and I thank you so much
for this. I had such a great time and kind
of what I always say, Ashland, We're pretty, we're hot,
We're everything they're not.
Speaker 1 (52:35):
You know that, you know that's right y. Well, thanks
everyone for tuning in to another episode of Wide Open.
Thank you so much Jordan for being here, and we
will see you all next week.
Host
Ashlyn Harris
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