July 3, 2026 • 29 mins
Shawn and Andrew aren't just striving to create a happy home; they are determined to nurture and sustain it. In this candid bonus conversation, the couple reflect on protecting childhood joy, redefining success, and the key advice that has helped shape their successful marriage.
"Courage to Commit: Embrace the Radical Power of Sticking with Something" is in bookstores now.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to work in progress. We
are back with the wonderful Sean Johnson and Andrew East
to dig into the lessons they chose to write down
(00:23):
for all of us in their brand new book, The
Courage to Commit, Embracing the radical power of sticking with something.
I want to talk to you guys about life all day,
but I also very specifically want to do a little
extra chat just about the book, because it's so great
and I'm so happy Courage to Commit is out in
(00:44):
the world for people. You know, you are taking all
of your lessons, all of the things that you have
figured out about how to be married, how to be leaders,
how to go through these transitions in life, and offering
them to people with delight and with humor, which you
crush online. Thank you for being one of my sources
(01:06):
of joy on the internet. But I'm curious why you
felt like now was the moment to write it.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
I think the best things in life are the most intimidating,
the most beyond us, the most requiring of struggle. You know.
It's like raising kids is not easy, nor is committing
to your career when it's not going well. You know,
or or like the really or staying in the relationship
(01:36):
when it's like, man, we've had it felt like eight
weeks of just stone cold, like we are not on
the same page. Yeah, and it's like okay, you know,
not everything is worth committing to and not like there's
healthy commitment and unhealthy commitment. And I think like the
differentiator there is kind of like this, uh, I don't
know this concept of growth. So for me, you know,
(01:59):
like football career, it was time for me to move
on because I was experiencing so much growth and interest
and other errors in my life. And I was a
long snapper in the NFL, which meant I was you know,
standing on the sidelines most of the time, and the
playbook didn't vary that much. And so I was like, Okay,
I think I've done this thing. I accomplished my goals,
(02:20):
I got my seasons in the NFL, and and so
it's like but just because it's beyond us or you
don't feel ready for it, doesn't mean you shouldn't do it.
You know, like like with parenting, you're like, dang, this
is intimidating and terrifying. And that goes hand in hand
with all of the incredible joys and that's just what
(02:42):
we felt like all of life has been.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
You know.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
It's like the best parts of life are that mixture
of struggle and joy, and so it's like it takes
a bit of courage to step into you know what,
my life isn't as organized as I thought it as
I think it should be. To have kids, or I
don't have the career that I have that I felt
(03:06):
like I needed to to, like, you know, feel like
I was ready to be married. But there's like this
this courage that you need to step into that and realize,
you know, the still part of the process.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
There's so much noise in the world right now that
I feel like so many people and there's statistics to
back this, are feeling very lost because with so many
options and so many opinions and so many people showing
their way of life, I think a lot of times
we get very confused as to what is my way
(03:37):
and what's best for myself, And with so much noise
and so much anxiety in the world, even with us,
we found ourselves ten years ago at a coffee shop
writing on a piece of paper with pen for five hours,
what do we want our life to look like because
we are leading a beautiful life that everybody would say
(03:58):
is successful and bringing. So we don't feel I don't
want to fulfilled, purposeful, like we're doing what we should be.
And so we went on this huge search for the
past ten years. We hired the greatest mentors. We did
all these intensives. We've met some of the whitsiest people
who have systems and ways to figure out what matters
(04:19):
to you and how to embrace it and how to
protect it and organize it and find true fulfillment in
your life that suits you. And we wake up every
day pinching ourselves saying, how do we get to live
this life? And we do everything in our power to
protect it. And so we write in our book everything
we've learned from the most brilliant people of how to
(04:42):
quiet the noise and find something that makes you feel purposeful.
And I feel like there's so much like decision fatigue
and exhaustion with the grass is greener and this is
how you hack your way there. And at the end
of the day, it means sticking with something that you
love and protecting it. But it was just our way
(05:02):
of saying we reached the epitome of success and got
lost along the way and found our way back and yeah,
how we did it?
Speaker 1 (05:11):
So yeah, kind of the roadmap if you will. Yeah,
I want to talk about this concept of a day
of delight for our friends at home. It's in chapter two,
so you'll get to it quickly. You're welcome, but talk
to us a little bit about that, like where it,
(05:31):
where it came from, and also what you think changed
in your relationship once you implemented it, because I know
that that coming so quickly in the book is because
you know, it's so important for people to get as
fast as possible.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
It was something that we had a mentor teach us.
We did this three day intensive with a man who
was an absolute genius. We're very nerdy this way. We
like to like always self reflect and optimo. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
I'm also like I can't wait to get the full
list of all of these intensive which is after this podcast.
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
But I remember he said one of these exercises was
to go through the week and draw out our absolute
perfect week where we're balancing life with work, with obligations,
with things that really fill our cup. And he said,
try very hard to have a day every week where
you are only doing things that fill your cup. The
(06:30):
world constantly wants to pressure you to just keep grinding,
and everything on Instagram is going to tell you don't
take a break because you're not going to reach the
top of the mountain. And I think that's a lie.
I think if you can take at least to day
a week two we literally did this. We wrote out
a long laundry list of all the things that we love.
Mine was like a campfire. I like makingsmores, like jumping
(06:54):
on a trampoline or going for a while. Like I
wrote out the strangest, funniest, cutest things that are very childlike,
and so did he and so did our children and
so On the weekends, because we have school and stuff,
we will take one day and that's all. We'll do,
no work. We try not to be on our phones.
We tried to truly just fill our cups because, like
(07:14):
we talked about with the athletics, if you lose the
joy of life, why are we doing this in the beginning,
Like why are we doing this at all? Yeah, we
deserve to have joy in our beautiful world, and I
think a lot of people forget that.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
It was also like harder than I thought it would
be to with the list of the things that we
most enjoyed doing. It's like so simple. It's like, hey,
I want to just sit and listen to music, or
let me just play guitar, or let me like starting
a fight. It's nothing crazy. It's not like let's go
to dubai or what. It's like. No, it's the things
that I most enjoyed doing are playing catch. It's like, wow,
(07:51):
that is so simple, and yet it's so simple that
I never do it. You know what I'm saying. It's
like I know that it's always there. I know that
it's like it's in the grave and I'll never do it.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
Yeah, an's my question, like how it changed our life,
but to be not to be dramatic, but it truly did.
Is like it has become one of our most protected things.
It makes it so much easier to get opportunities cent
our way and be like, oh, sorry, that falls on
our day of delight. So it's like, no, we protect
that now at all costs. That's our kids favorite day
of the week. It's it's something that truly fills us
(08:24):
back up and gets us ready for the next day.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
And it gives us something to look forward to. Yeah
it's Tuesday, our day, the light and then yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
Yeah, and something that's actually within your reach to your point,
like I do think all of us fall prey to
that pressure. And and you said it the simplest things
that actually fill our cup or the things we don't
do because they're just right there. But if you can,
(08:53):
if you can personify it, you make it the day,
you make it a non negotiable. You're doing all these
things that are so simple, but they're completely like they're
reordering your insides almost like it's putting so much more
in the happiness column in you than you've perhaps been
(09:16):
doing for a while because you're on the grind. And
I think it's a really interesting way to give yourself
a healthy counterbalance to the other positive aspects of what
you're chasing, what your dreams are. You know, you both
talk a lot about, especially through sport learning, what mastery
(09:38):
is and how it requires a lifetime of consistency. And
so if you're going to be consistent for your goals,
you should also be consistent for your happiness, Like happiness
should be on the goal list.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Right, Yeah, can I close the loop on something I've
been thinking about ever since you said it. It's just
the other yeah, you said you're curious about why is that? That?
Is it the packaging or the like the news feature
of yeah, you know, an Olympic gold medal or a
successful acting career. I also think part of it is,
you know, like I think excellent should be uh celebrated
(10:14):
and rewarded and give a notoriety. You know, like to
do what you have done is incredible, and to do
what Sean has done, it's like it's amazing and like
one a fun thing to see humans do these incredible things,
So like please yes. But it's also like there's opportunity
costs and everything everything has a cost to it, and
so to make it to the level you did, you
had to get pay the cost of moving cities, pay
(10:36):
the cost of hanging out with your old friends, pay
the cost of doing all these other things. And it's
like there's always costs, and it's like I think what
I realized recently is, you know, people talk about compounding
and finances all the time, and it's like, sweet, you know,
forty years from now, this is what this could look like. Here,
you know, a pinny a day YadA YadA, And it's
(10:58):
like that applies to every other of life too. So
it's like if you want, I think that that deep
feeling that you might not necessarily get with achieving your
NFL dream of like oh man, okay, I made it,
but it still doesn't feel like I thought. I'm still
just like waking up in my bed. Like you said,
that can either compound if you're chasing the success, or
(11:22):
you could like do these little deposits weekly, like doing
a day of delight of like you know what. I
know that I know that playing golf might put my
NFL career at risk because I'm I'm like, you know,
potentially hurting my back and maybe that's not good. But
I really love it, and I think that I can
do football longer if I still do these little daily
(11:42):
deposits of like choice. Yeah, and so I was just
thinking about, like the opportunity costs is part of what
makes it feel so unglamorous when you're the person being glamorized.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
So totally, we'll be back in just a minute. But
here's a word from our sponsors. I'm a big fan
of humility. I don't like, I don't love any sort
of elitist structure. Like I'm not usually the person on
(12:11):
my set who's going to try to like befriend the producer.
I'm like over in the corner talking to the camera
guys about what lenses they're using. I'm not interested in
the game in that way. But I do think there's
kind of a conundrum of when you've made it, you're
not supposed to talk about the opportunity cost because then
(12:33):
you're not humble, you're not grateful. You know, then you're
you're just being a dick. And it's like, well, no,
I want to be a human and this is my
human condition. And you know, when I speak to young
people who want to do what I do for work,
don't I don't lie to them. I'm like, hey, you
(12:55):
got to be prepared to not see your family. You
got to be prepared to miss every wedding and every
baby born. And you know, you're probably like, if you're
working on a show, you are not going to see
your family, and can you figure out how to structure
your life around that? Will you be the person who
you know is willing to do what we all used
(13:17):
to do, Like in our in our industry, they call
the overnights you get to by the end of the
week of Friturday because you start working on Friday, but
you work until midday Saturday. And like we kind of
got our Friturdays to where we'd wrap by like five
am on Saturday morning, and I'd have a bag packed
and be on a six twenty flight to LA Like
(13:38):
I'd go straight from set to the airport, just so
I could go home and like make someone's birthday or
have dinner with my parents, and then Sunday morning, I'd
be on a six am flight back to North Carolina.
And it was really hard, and like, I spent years
not sleeping and now I'm such Oh, I'm so regimented
about my sleep. It was the only way I could
(14:02):
navigate the opportunity cost.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Yeah, and.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
I am incredibly grateful and I'm not gonna lie that
it was hard. Yeah, And I think we have to
get to a point where we're okay allowing people to
talk about the full spectrum of experience at whatever level
of success or whatever stage of life they're at. It's
no different than a mom saying like, Hey, I'm having
a really hard time right now with my two toddlers,
(14:28):
and people are like, but aren't you so happy, and
it's like, oh, yeah, duh, they're amazing. And also this
is hard and we have to allow I think for
all of that and.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Our antidote to that, like always, I don't know that
the more and more and more that your career could
ask for, your kids ask for just like just little
delight every now.
Speaker 3 (14:50):
Yeah, well, and we speak so much that this is
like the whole trajectory of the book is like exactly
what you just said. We live in a world of
instant gratification where people just keep preaching do what makes
you happy right now, that's what you deserve. And it's like,
if you can't take a pause and look at the
big picture of where you actually want to go and
(15:12):
learn how to have boredom and learn how to work
through obstacles and learn how to stick with it when
it gets tough and you're sacrificing, then you actually will
never get to that long term goal that you want ever,
because instant gratification is not the way, and the opportunity
cost is like it's part of it, and our world
doesn't like to acknowledge that anymore. And you can't find
(15:36):
true beauty if you don't actually work hard for something.
I mean, yes, it's good.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
Yeah, I think that's really it's really important to be
able to zoom out and think about it in that
way because time time is moving fast no matter what.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
Do you think that that's the sort of practice that
you talk about in chapter nine? You talk about the unknown,
about how this this sort of momentum that you can
work to create is what gives you clarity. Do you
think that that zoom out and choice to analyze what
(16:16):
kind of life you want to live is what feeds
clarity for you both?
Speaker 2 (16:21):
Yeah, I mean the unknown it's I think of this
movie scene from Indiana Jones. I don't know if you've
seen that, Sophia. Yeah, It's like he's on this mission
and he knows where he wants to go, but he
hits this point where there's like this chasm and he's
on one side of this cliff and he's trying to
get it to the other side, and he's been told
(16:44):
that there's this invisible bridge that he has to step
onto to get to the other shot. And it's like, Okay,
that's like kind of this idea of unknown of Okay,
I've been told as an athlete that I might have
what it takes to make level if I do X,
Y and Z, And it's like you're stepping into this
(17:05):
this area where you're like, I'm trusting you know, I am.
I'm not sure. I've never experienced this. Uh you know,
I've been maybe told by mentors that this is kind
of how it goes. But when you're the one in it,
like you don't you don't know, and it's daunting and
it's it's terrifying, and it's like you have to step
onto that invisible bridge and you know, there's there's certain
(17:28):
things that you could do to to build assurance in that.
But yeah, clarity is a it can be a slippery
thing that I think it's almost like a it's something
that can grow and you could start to see kind
of the positive feedback of like, Okay, yeah, I didn't
understand this at the start, but now that I'm in
(17:51):
it for a little bit, like I'm starting to slowly
build clarity. But very rarely in my life, you know,
have I had one hundred percent Oh yeah, this is
exactly where I should go. Like people talk about whatever
hearing God speak to them, and I'm like, I've never
had that moment it would be so great, but like
it's mostly been a slow process of building clarity in
(18:13):
my experience.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
Yeah, I think that's that's the thing. I actually think
it's such an important process and can also be quite
spiritual to realize, Oh, I am the captain of my ship.
I have to do this. No one else is going
to tell me how to do it, you know. I
(18:36):
think about it like we were saying the world is
really heavy today, and I think a lot of people go, well,
who's going to fix it? And I'm like, heye, to
break it to y'all, we are officially the adults in
the room, like, we have to fix it. We have
to steer the ship, you know. And I think I
think that's exciting. I think it's scary. And I think
(18:58):
you've touched on something a few times that feels sort
of like the north Star, which is mentorship, because I
think there are necessities for big moments in life where
you can look to someone for guidance, and where that person,
in that sort of intergenerational exchange, can also look to
(19:22):
us for a little bit of hope. Like we're not
quite as jaded, you know, I'm more tired than I
was in my twenties. But I am not as tired
as my parents. Yeah, and you know, I can inspire
them to like keep it going, and they can give
me advice, so I don't. It doesn't take me six
(19:44):
mistakes to get to where I'm going, hopefully, it only
takes like three or four. And I'm curious how the
two of you, especially so young, you know, in your
lives and in your marriage, started seeking mentorships so intentionally.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
Because you mentioned this earlier. We found ourselves surrounded in
gymnastics at a very young age, and then in the NFL,
and then early on in our marriage, we found ourselves
surrounded by people who are going through really, really really
hard things in life, divorces, loss of career, people who
(20:23):
were at, you know, the highest level of success, who
were so depressed. We witnessed a lot of heartbreak and
a lot of people in very low valleys, and we
went through some of them ourselves, and we had just decided,
I think, coming from athletics, we love coaches. I love
(20:44):
someone to say this is your way. So we decided
very early on to work with therapists and to go
find people who were so wise in all of their fields,
so we could learn from them to hopefully equip ourselves
with the tools to be able to traverse these hardships
(21:06):
if we were to ever, you know, find ourselves experiencing them.
And yeah, we yeah, it was just kind of trying
to prepare ourselves as much as possible.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
Yeah, that's really cool. We'll be back in just a
minute after a few words from our favorite sponsors. Guys,
the book is just so good. Courage to Commit is
in bookstores now. It's wise, it's thoughtful. I really appreciate
(21:43):
that you two decided to do this in this moment.
I think it's filled with exactly the kinds of hope
and practical strategies that people need. So very well done
to you both. I'm curious for each of you. You know,
you have found what seems like a really good rhythm
(22:04):
in your lives as individuals, as a couple. You are
authentic and you are funny online, which is not always
easy in a world you know that that does feel
so consumed these days, but it seems like you're in
a good stride and so with the book out and
(22:25):
the baby's doing well and like life feeling solid, I'm
curious as you look forward. What still feels like your
work in progress.
Speaker 3 (22:39):
It's funny you say that, because I feel like we
have had we've.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
To be very.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
Vulnerable, and honest we.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
Have not felt that.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
So we have felt like with the book. I think
it's one of the most vulnerable things we've done in
our career. I think we are getting a taste of
our own medicine of everything we're preaching, which is this
taken us almost four years to do. And because we
live in such an instant gratification world and we are
on the GRAM and we get instant gratification or not
(23:11):
from like a post, we have felt more nervousness around
the book launch than anything we've done, and so it's
been kind of nerve wracking in the past couple of
weeks and talking about it and kind of putting into
(23:31):
the world everything that we've been working on. So I
would say what still feels like a work in progress
is very much this. We have been working really hard
to this moment, so it's been exciting, but has felt
very vulnerable the past couple of weeks.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
Yeah, and honestly, you've done a great job at kind
of identifying the paradox that is this topic of commitment
where it's like yeah, yeah, like we're out here preaching
stick to it, but like not to everything, and like
you kin alluded to it in different words earlier, but
we talk about pruning things like you know, you need
to rid yourself of certain things in life to make
(24:11):
room for other things, and so thus you're naturally not
sticking to things and so there, you know, there's a
couple of different paradoxes where you're like, shoot, how are
we going to work through this? And I think we did. Uh.
I'm really happy with how the book turned out, and
we like navigated some of those paradoxes to give people
practical tips. But for me, I would say my work
in progress. You said we've been married ten years, and
I guess I kind of assumed Sophia. They're like like,
(24:38):
I'm like, okay, I know Sean so deeply, like we
got it, We're in stride. We can coast now, And
I just am realizing what a what a treat it
is to like actually never really coast, Like that's just
not part of a marriage. I don't think or our relationship.
(24:59):
And it's like, I'm it's it's really fun. And also
I I didn't expect that.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
You know, of figured it out.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
Yeah, we still I still have things where I'm like,
I feel like at thirty four, I should have resolved
this inability to schedule anything, like I don't know what
the deal is or like maybe some day Dad, or
why do I still annoy Sean? So I got a
lot of works in progress.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
So for you, Yeah, I think if I may, you know,
because I've got almost a decade on you, what I've learned,
especially when I talk about like you know, wild times
a few years ago, people who really think, oh I
can coast, I'll deal with this later, like this is
(25:52):
the core and it's set, and so I'll go deal
with everything else and we'll make time for this later.
All of those people, people who get divorced, like you
cannot emotionally, physically, verbally abandon your person or like get
lazy with them. Like in the same way that you
(26:16):
you dedicate your day of delight and you don't let
other things mess with it. You have to you have
to want to dedicate with your person. And I what
I've learned with you know, people who've finally gotten it right,
I'd like to think that's me. People who've been getting
it right for a long time, like the two of you,
(26:37):
like you better date forever, Like that's your wife, but
that's your girlfriend, you know, because people who get lazy
with a spouse. I'm like, best of love to you.
I'll be here when she calls her and tells me
she's out, and so like, I'm glad to hear you
(26:59):
say that that. You're like, oh, I thought it might
get I thought we might not have to work on this.
But the work, like the work is the delight. Like
you two can play catch together forever and that's incredible,
but you have to you have to remember that you
have to make time for it.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
Yeah. People talk about the love languages and it's like,
all right, quality time, let's just say that's your love language.
I mean, at ten years in, we've Sean and I've
had a lot of quality time together, and I kind
of thought there would be like a container of all right,
we get we did we I.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
Gave you the quality to the rest of my guess what,
every year the container starts over.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
You are currently doing twenty twenty six quality time.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
Yeah, oh no, it's like every week almost, and it's like, no,
it's really good. It's like this said, and this is
what you want like that? Yeah, otherwise I don't know
it'd be it'd be uh boring in some way. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
Well, and we talk a lot about you mentioned it rhythms.
We try to implement kind of unmoved rhythms that protect
each category of our life. So even with like our marriage,
every Sunday we will sit down and talk about how
the week felt. And that can feel like overkilled to
some people, but it's like what bucket felt empty to you?
(28:14):
What bucket was overflowing with so much goodness? And how
can I kind of tweak something next week to make
you feel more loved? And yeah, every week is different.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
So yeah, we've got a good team situation going on.
For the record, I do mostly agree with you that,
you know, if the moms were in charge, everything will
be figured out.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
But hey, good dads are welcome to they are like
you know, I think we can all agree. Statistically, the
men haven't been doing great with all the leadership seats,
but there are some of you who are excellent who
I would like to recruit to our team. I think
the team they're getting, you know, it's two against one
(28:53):
at the moment, and the two of us say, Andrew's invited, Yeah,
the invite. You're doing great. You get to you get
to come to you get to come to the matriarchy team.
You're doing great.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Yea turning today, Sophia, thank you for this has been.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
So fun you guys, congrats on the book.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
I'm so happy for you. I hope we all find
ourselves in the same city soon.
Speaker 3 (29:19):
Please, we would love that.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
We'll send you that list of coaches, will you please?
Speaker 1 (29:23):
Okay, thanks you too. Congratulations. I'll talk to you soon.
Hey, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to work in progress. We
are back with the wonderful Sean Johnson and Andrew East
to dig into the lessons they chose to write down
(00:23):
for all of us in their brand new book, The
Courage to Commit, Embracing the radical power of sticking with something.
I want to talk to you guys about life all day,
but I also very specifically want to do a little
extra chat just about the book, because it's so great
and I'm so happy Courage to Commit is out in
(00:44):
the world for people. You know, you are taking all
of your lessons, all of the things that you have
figured out about how to be married, how to be leaders,
how to go through these transitions in life, and offering
them to people with delight and with humor, which you
crush online. Thank you for being one of my sources
(01:06):
of joy on the internet. But I'm curious why you
felt like now was the moment to write it.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
I think the best things in life are the most intimidating,
the most beyond us, the most requiring of struggle. You know.
It's like raising kids is not easy, nor is committing
to your career when it's not going well. You know,
or or like the really or staying in the relationship
(01:36):
when it's like, man, we've had it felt like eight
weeks of just stone cold, like we are not on
the same page. Yeah, and it's like okay, you know,
not everything is worth committing to and not like there's
healthy commitment and unhealthy commitment. And I think like the
differentiator there is kind of like this, uh, I don't
know this concept of growth. So for me, you know,
(01:59):
like football career, it was time for me to move
on because I was experiencing so much growth and interest
and other errors in my life. And I was a
long snapper in the NFL, which meant I was you know,
standing on the sidelines most of the time, and the
playbook didn't vary that much. And so I was like, Okay,
I think I've done this thing. I accomplished my goals,
(02:20):
I got my seasons in the NFL, and and so
it's like but just because it's beyond us or you
don't feel ready for it, doesn't mean you shouldn't do it.
You know, like like with parenting, you're like, dang, this
is intimidating and terrifying. And that goes hand in hand
with all of the incredible joys and that's just what
(02:42):
we felt like all of life has been.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
You know.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
It's like the best parts of life are that mixture
of struggle and joy, and so it's like it takes
a bit of courage to step into you know what,
my life isn't as organized as I thought it as
I think it should be. To have kids, or I
don't have the career that I have that I felt
(03:06):
like I needed to to, like, you know, feel like
I was ready to be married. But there's like this
this courage that you need to step into that and realize,
you know, the still part of the process.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
There's so much noise in the world right now that
I feel like so many people and there's statistics to
back this, are feeling very lost because with so many
options and so many opinions and so many people showing
their way of life, I think a lot of times
we get very confused as to what is my way
(03:37):
and what's best for myself, And with so much noise
and so much anxiety in the world, even with us,
we found ourselves ten years ago at a coffee shop
writing on a piece of paper with pen for five hours,
what do we want our life to look like because
we are leading a beautiful life that everybody would say
(03:58):
is successful and bringing. So we don't feel I don't
want to fulfilled, purposeful, like we're doing what we should be.
And so we went on this huge search for the
past ten years. We hired the greatest mentors. We did
all these intensives. We've met some of the whitsiest people
who have systems and ways to figure out what matters
(04:19):
to you and how to embrace it and how to
protect it and organize it and find true fulfillment in
your life that suits you. And we wake up every
day pinching ourselves saying, how do we get to live
this life? And we do everything in our power to
protect it. And so we write in our book everything
we've learned from the most brilliant people of how to
(04:42):
quiet the noise and find something that makes you feel purposeful.
And I feel like there's so much like decision fatigue
and exhaustion with the grass is greener and this is
how you hack your way there. And at the end
of the day, it means sticking with something that you
love and protecting it. But it was just our way
(05:02):
of saying we reached the epitome of success and got
lost along the way and found our way back and yeah,
how we did it?
Speaker 1 (05:11):
So yeah, kind of the roadmap if you will. Yeah,
I want to talk about this concept of a day
of delight for our friends at home. It's in chapter two,
so you'll get to it quickly. You're welcome, but talk
to us a little bit about that, like where it,
(05:31):
where it came from, and also what you think changed
in your relationship once you implemented it, because I know
that that coming so quickly in the book is because
you know, it's so important for people to get as
fast as possible.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
It was something that we had a mentor teach us.
We did this three day intensive with a man who
was an absolute genius. We're very nerdy this way. We
like to like always self reflect and optimo. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
I'm also like I can't wait to get the full
list of all of these intensive which is after this podcast.
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
But I remember he said one of these exercises was
to go through the week and draw out our absolute
perfect week where we're balancing life with work, with obligations,
with things that really fill our cup. And he said,
try very hard to have a day every week where
you are only doing things that fill your cup. The
(06:30):
world constantly wants to pressure you to just keep grinding,
and everything on Instagram is going to tell you don't
take a break because you're not going to reach the
top of the mountain. And I think that's a lie.
I think if you can take at least to day
a week two we literally did this. We wrote out
a long laundry list of all the things that we love.
Mine was like a campfire. I like makingsmores, like jumping
(06:54):
on a trampoline or going for a while. Like I
wrote out the strangest, funniest, cutest things that are very childlike,
and so did he and so did our children and
so On the weekends, because we have school and stuff,
we will take one day and that's all. We'll do,
no work. We try not to be on our phones.
We tried to truly just fill our cups because, like
(07:14):
we talked about with the athletics, if you lose the
joy of life, why are we doing this in the beginning,
Like why are we doing this at all? Yeah, we
deserve to have joy in our beautiful world, and I
think a lot of people forget that.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
It was also like harder than I thought it would
be to with the list of the things that we
most enjoyed doing. It's like so simple. It's like, hey,
I want to just sit and listen to music, or
let me just play guitar, or let me like starting
a fight. It's nothing crazy. It's not like let's go
to dubai or what. It's like. No, it's the things
that I most enjoyed doing are playing catch. It's like, wow,
(07:51):
that is so simple, and yet it's so simple that
I never do it. You know what I'm saying. It's
like I know that it's always there. I know that
it's like it's in the grave and I'll never do it.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
Yeah, an's my question, like how it changed our life,
but to be not to be dramatic, but it truly did.
Is like it has become one of our most protected things.
It makes it so much easier to get opportunities cent
our way and be like, oh, sorry, that falls on
our day of delight. So it's like, no, we protect
that now at all costs. That's our kids favorite day
of the week. It's it's something that truly fills us
(08:24):
back up and gets us ready for the next day.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
And it gives us something to look forward to. Yeah
it's Tuesday, our day, the light and then yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
Yeah, and something that's actually within your reach to your point,
like I do think all of us fall prey to
that pressure. And and you said it the simplest things
that actually fill our cup or the things we don't
do because they're just right there. But if you can,
(08:53):
if you can personify it, you make it the day,
you make it a non negotiable. You're doing all these
things that are so simple, but they're completely like they're
reordering your insides almost like it's putting so much more
in the happiness column in you than you've perhaps been
(09:16):
doing for a while because you're on the grind. And
I think it's a really interesting way to give yourself
a healthy counterbalance to the other positive aspects of what
you're chasing, what your dreams are. You know, you both
talk a lot about, especially through sport learning, what mastery
(09:38):
is and how it requires a lifetime of consistency. And
so if you're going to be consistent for your goals,
you should also be consistent for your happiness, Like happiness
should be on the goal list.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Right, Yeah, can I close the loop on something I've
been thinking about ever since you said it. It's just
the other yeah, you said you're curious about why is that? That?
Is it the packaging or the like the news feature
of yeah, you know, an Olympic gold medal or a
successful acting career. I also think part of it is,
you know, like I think excellent should be uh celebrated
(10:14):
and rewarded and give a notoriety. You know, like to
do what you have done is incredible, and to do
what Sean has done, it's like it's amazing and like
one a fun thing to see humans do these incredible things,
So like please yes. But it's also like there's opportunity
costs and everything everything has a cost to it, and
so to make it to the level you did, you
had to get pay the cost of moving cities, pay
(10:36):
the cost of hanging out with your old friends, pay
the cost of doing all these other things. And it's
like there's always costs, and it's like I think what
I realized recently is, you know, people talk about compounding
and finances all the time, and it's like, sweet, you know,
forty years from now, this is what this could look like. Here,
you know, a pinny a day YadA YadA, And it's
(10:58):
like that applies to every other of life too. So
it's like if you want, I think that that deep
feeling that you might not necessarily get with achieving your
NFL dream of like oh man, okay, I made it,
but it still doesn't feel like I thought. I'm still
just like waking up in my bed. Like you said,
that can either compound if you're chasing the success, or
(11:22):
you could like do these little deposits weekly, like doing
a day of delight of like you know what. I
know that I know that playing golf might put my
NFL career at risk because I'm I'm like, you know,
potentially hurting my back and maybe that's not good. But
I really love it, and I think that I can
do football longer if I still do these little daily
(11:42):
deposits of like choice. Yeah, and so I was just
thinking about, like the opportunity costs is part of what
makes it feel so unglamorous when you're the person being glamorized.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
So totally, we'll be back in just a minute. But
here's a word from our sponsors. I'm a big fan
of humility. I don't like, I don't love any sort
of elitist structure. Like I'm not usually the person on
(12:11):
my set who's going to try to like befriend the producer.
I'm like over in the corner talking to the camera
guys about what lenses they're using. I'm not interested in
the game in that way. But I do think there's
kind of a conundrum of when you've made it, you're
not supposed to talk about the opportunity cost because then
(12:33):
you're not humble, you're not grateful. You know, then you're
you're just being a dick. And it's like, well, no,
I want to be a human and this is my
human condition. And you know, when I speak to young
people who want to do what I do for work,
don't I don't lie to them. I'm like, hey, you
(12:55):
got to be prepared to not see your family. You
got to be prepared to miss every wedding and every
baby born. And you know, you're probably like, if you're
working on a show, you are not going to see
your family, and can you figure out how to structure
your life around that? Will you be the person who
you know is willing to do what we all used
(13:17):
to do, Like in our in our industry, they call
the overnights you get to by the end of the
week of Friturday because you start working on Friday, but
you work until midday Saturday. And like we kind of
got our Friturdays to where we'd wrap by like five
am on Saturday morning, and I'd have a bag packed
and be on a six twenty flight to LA Like
(13:38):
I'd go straight from set to the airport, just so
I could go home and like make someone's birthday or
have dinner with my parents, and then Sunday morning, I'd
be on a six am flight back to North Carolina.
And it was really hard, and like, I spent years
not sleeping and now I'm such Oh, I'm so regimented
about my sleep. It was the only way I could
(14:02):
navigate the opportunity cost.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Yeah, and.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
I am incredibly grateful and I'm not gonna lie that
it was hard. Yeah, And I think we have to
get to a point where we're okay allowing people to
talk about the full spectrum of experience at whatever level
of success or whatever stage of life they're at. It's
no different than a mom saying like, Hey, I'm having
a really hard time right now with my two toddlers,
(14:28):
and people are like, but aren't you so happy, and
it's like, oh, yeah, duh, they're amazing. And also this
is hard and we have to allow I think for
all of that and.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Our antidote to that, like always, I don't know that
the more and more and more that your career could
ask for, your kids ask for just like just little
delight every now.
Speaker 3 (14:50):
Yeah, well, and we speak so much that this is
like the whole trajectory of the book is like exactly
what you just said. We live in a world of
instant gratification where people just keep preaching do what makes
you happy right now, that's what you deserve. And it's like,
if you can't take a pause and look at the
big picture of where you actually want to go and
(15:12):
learn how to have boredom and learn how to work
through obstacles and learn how to stick with it when
it gets tough and you're sacrificing, then you actually will
never get to that long term goal that you want ever,
because instant gratification is not the way, and the opportunity
cost is like it's part of it, and our world
doesn't like to acknowledge that anymore. And you can't find
(15:36):
true beauty if you don't actually work hard for something.
I mean, yes, it's good.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
Yeah, I think that's really it's really important to be
able to zoom out and think about it in that
way because time time is moving fast no matter what.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
Do you think that that's the sort of practice that
you talk about in chapter nine? You talk about the unknown,
about how this this sort of momentum that you can
work to create is what gives you clarity. Do you
think that that zoom out and choice to analyze what
(16:16):
kind of life you want to live is what feeds
clarity for you both?
Speaker 2 (16:21):
Yeah, I mean the unknown it's I think of this
movie scene from Indiana Jones. I don't know if you've
seen that, Sophia. Yeah, It's like he's on this mission
and he knows where he wants to go, but he
hits this point where there's like this chasm and he's
on one side of this cliff and he's trying to
get it to the other side, and he's been told
(16:44):
that there's this invisible bridge that he has to step
onto to get to the other shot. And it's like, Okay,
that's like kind of this idea of unknown of Okay,
I've been told as an athlete that I might have
what it takes to make level if I do X,
Y and Z, And it's like you're stepping into this
(17:05):
this area where you're like, I'm trusting you know, I am.
I'm not sure. I've never experienced this. Uh you know,
I've been maybe told by mentors that this is kind
of how it goes. But when you're the one in it,
like you don't you don't know, and it's daunting and
it's it's terrifying, and it's like you have to step
onto that invisible bridge and you know, there's there's certain
(17:28):
things that you could do to to build assurance in that.
But yeah, clarity is a it can be a slippery
thing that I think it's almost like a it's something
that can grow and you could start to see kind
of the positive feedback of like, Okay, yeah, I didn't
understand this at the start, but now that I'm in
(17:51):
it for a little bit, like I'm starting to slowly
build clarity. But very rarely in my life, you know,
have I had one hundred percent Oh yeah, this is
exactly where I should go. Like people talk about whatever
hearing God speak to them, and I'm like, I've never
had that moment it would be so great, but like
it's mostly been a slow process of building clarity in
(18:13):
my experience.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
Yeah, I think that's that's the thing. I actually think
it's such an important process and can also be quite
spiritual to realize, Oh, I am the captain of my ship.
I have to do this. No one else is going
to tell me how to do it, you know. I
(18:36):
think about it like we were saying the world is
really heavy today, and I think a lot of people go, well,
who's going to fix it? And I'm like, heye, to
break it to y'all, we are officially the adults in
the room, like, we have to fix it. We have
to steer the ship, you know. And I think I
think that's exciting. I think it's scary. And I think
(18:58):
you've touched on something a few times that feels sort
of like the north Star, which is mentorship, because I
think there are necessities for big moments in life where
you can look to someone for guidance, and where that person,
in that sort of intergenerational exchange, can also look to
(19:22):
us for a little bit of hope. Like we're not
quite as jaded, you know, I'm more tired than I
was in my twenties. But I am not as tired
as my parents. Yeah, and you know, I can inspire
them to like keep it going, and they can give
me advice, so I don't. It doesn't take me six
(19:44):
mistakes to get to where I'm going, hopefully, it only
takes like three or four. And I'm curious how the
two of you, especially so young, you know, in your
lives and in your marriage, started seeking mentorships so intentionally.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
Because you mentioned this earlier. We found ourselves surrounded in
gymnastics at a very young age, and then in the NFL,
and then early on in our marriage, we found ourselves
surrounded by people who are going through really, really really
hard things in life, divorces, loss of career, people who
(20:23):
were at, you know, the highest level of success, who
were so depressed. We witnessed a lot of heartbreak and
a lot of people in very low valleys, and we
went through some of them ourselves, and we had just decided,
I think, coming from athletics, we love coaches. I love
(20:44):
someone to say this is your way. So we decided
very early on to work with therapists and to go
find people who were so wise in all of their fields,
so we could learn from them to hopefully equip ourselves
with the tools to be able to traverse these hardships
(21:06):
if we were to ever, you know, find ourselves experiencing them.
And yeah, we yeah, it was just kind of trying
to prepare ourselves as much as possible.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
Yeah, that's really cool. We'll be back in just a
minute after a few words from our favorite sponsors. Guys,
the book is just so good. Courage to Commit is
in bookstores now. It's wise, it's thoughtful. I really appreciate
(21:43):
that you two decided to do this in this moment.
I think it's filled with exactly the kinds of hope
and practical strategies that people need. So very well done
to you both. I'm curious for each of you. You know,
you have found what seems like a really good rhythm
(22:04):
in your lives as individuals, as a couple. You are
authentic and you are funny online, which is not always
easy in a world you know that that does feel
so consumed these days, but it seems like you're in
a good stride and so with the book out and
(22:25):
the baby's doing well and like life feeling solid, I'm
curious as you look forward. What still feels like your
work in progress.
Speaker 3 (22:39):
It's funny you say that, because I feel like we
have had we've.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
To be very.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
Vulnerable, and honest we.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
Have not felt that.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
So we have felt like with the book. I think
it's one of the most vulnerable things we've done in
our career. I think we are getting a taste of
our own medicine of everything we're preaching, which is this
taken us almost four years to do. And because we
live in such an instant gratification world and we are
on the GRAM and we get instant gratification or not
(23:11):
from like a post, we have felt more nervousness around
the book launch than anything we've done, and so it's
been kind of nerve wracking in the past couple of
weeks and talking about it and kind of putting into
(23:31):
the world everything that we've been working on. So I
would say what still feels like a work in progress
is very much this. We have been working really hard
to this moment, so it's been exciting, but has felt
very vulnerable the past couple of weeks.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
Yeah, and honestly, you've done a great job at kind
of identifying the paradox that is this topic of commitment
where it's like yeah, yeah, like we're out here preaching
stick to it, but like not to everything, and like
you kin alluded to it in different words earlier, but
we talk about pruning things like you know, you need
to rid yourself of certain things in life to make
(24:11):
room for other things, and so thus you're naturally not
sticking to things and so there, you know, there's a
couple of different paradoxes where you're like, shoot, how are
we going to work through this? And I think we did. Uh.
I'm really happy with how the book turned out, and
we like navigated some of those paradoxes to give people
practical tips. But for me, I would say my work
in progress. You said we've been married ten years, and
I guess I kind of assumed Sophia. They're like like,
(24:38):
I'm like, okay, I know Sean so deeply, like we
got it, We're in stride. We can coast now, And
I just am realizing what a what a treat it
is to like actually never really coast, Like that's just
not part of a marriage. I don't think or our relationship.
(24:59):
And it's like, I'm it's it's really fun. And also
I I didn't expect that.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
You know, of figured it out.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
Yeah, we still I still have things where I'm like,
I feel like at thirty four, I should have resolved
this inability to schedule anything, like I don't know what
the deal is or like maybe some day Dad, or
why do I still annoy Sean? So I got a
lot of works in progress.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
So for you, Yeah, I think if I may, you know,
because I've got almost a decade on you, what I've learned,
especially when I talk about like you know, wild times
a few years ago, people who really think, oh I
can coast, I'll deal with this later, like this is
(25:52):
the core and it's set, and so I'll go deal
with everything else and we'll make time for this later.
All of those people, people who get divorced, like you
cannot emotionally, physically, verbally abandon your person or like get
lazy with them. Like in the same way that you
(26:16):
you dedicate your day of delight and you don't let
other things mess with it. You have to you have
to want to dedicate with your person. And I what
I've learned with you know, people who've finally gotten it right,
I'd like to think that's me. People who've been getting
it right for a long time, like the two of you,
(26:37):
like you better date forever, Like that's your wife, but
that's your girlfriend, you know, because people who get lazy
with a spouse. I'm like, best of love to you.
I'll be here when she calls her and tells me
she's out, and so like, I'm glad to hear you
(26:59):
say that that. You're like, oh, I thought it might
get I thought we might not have to work on this.
But the work, like the work is the delight. Like
you two can play catch together forever and that's incredible,
but you have to you have to remember that you
have to make time for it.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
Yeah. People talk about the love languages and it's like,
all right, quality time, let's just say that's your love language.
I mean, at ten years in, we've Sean and I've
had a lot of quality time together, and I kind
of thought there would be like a container of all right,
we get we did we I.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
Gave you the quality to the rest of my guess what,
every year the container starts over.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
You are currently doing twenty twenty six quality time.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
Yeah, oh no, it's like every week almost, and it's like, no,
it's really good. It's like this said, and this is
what you want like that? Yeah, otherwise I don't know
it'd be it'd be uh boring in some way. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
Well, and we talk a lot about you mentioned it rhythms.
We try to implement kind of unmoved rhythms that protect
each category of our life. So even with like our marriage,
every Sunday we will sit down and talk about how
the week felt. And that can feel like overkilled to
some people, but it's like what bucket felt empty to you?
(28:14):
What bucket was overflowing with so much goodness? And how
can I kind of tweak something next week to make
you feel more loved? And yeah, every week is different.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
So yeah, we've got a good team situation going on.
For the record, I do mostly agree with you that,
you know, if the moms were in charge, everything will
be figured out.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
But hey, good dads are welcome to they are like
you know, I think we can all agree. Statistically, the
men haven't been doing great with all the leadership seats,
but there are some of you who are excellent who
I would like to recruit to our team. I think
the team they're getting, you know, it's two against one
(28:53):
at the moment, and the two of us say, Andrew's invited, Yeah,
the invite. You're doing great. You get to you get
to come to you get to come to the matriarchy team.
You're doing great.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Yea turning today, Sophia, thank you for this has been.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
So fun you guys, congrats on the book.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
I'm so happy for you. I hope we all find
ourselves in the same city soon.
Speaker 3 (29:19):
Please, we would love that.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
We'll send you that list of coaches, will you please?
Speaker 1 (29:23):
Okay, thanks you too. Congratulations. I'll talk to you soon.
Host
Sophia Bush
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Betrayal Weekly is back for a new season. Every Thursday, Betrayal Weekly shares first-hand accounts of broken trust, shocking deceptions, and the trail of destruction they leave behind. Hosted by Andrea Gunning, this weekly ongoing series digs into real-life stories of betrayal and the aftermath. From stories of double lives to dark discoveries, these are cautionary tales and accounts of resilience against all odds. From the producers of the critically acclaimed Betrayal series, Betrayal Weekly drops new episodes every Thursday. If you would like to share your story, you can reach out to the Betrayal Team by emailing them at betrayalpod@gmail.com and follow us on Instagram at @betrayalpod and @glasspodcasts. Please join our Substack for additional exclusive content, curated book recommendations, and community discussions. Sign up FREE by clicking this link Beyond Betrayal Substack. Join our community dedicated to truth, resilience, and healing. Your voice matters! Be a part of our Betrayal journey on Substack.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com