June 24, 2026 • 27 mins
What happens when someone who has been looked at her entire life finally gets to decide how she wants to be seen? Brooke Shields reflects on motherhood, friendship, aging, identity, and the complicated gift of growing up in public—offering hard-won wisdom that feels both deeply personal and surprisingly universal.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to work in progress. Welcome
back to work in progress friends. Today we are joined
by a woman I adore so much, who I've also
(00:21):
been lucky enough to call a co star. She is
an exceptional coworker. She is the sort of woman who
mentors all of us through her example, and she also
happens to be someone I've looked up to literally my
entire life. Today we are joined by the icon Brookshields.
(00:41):
Brook has spent her entire life in the public eye,
from being a child movie star to a model, to
a best selling author, entrepreneur, and now wearing her latest
hat as the executive producer of Acorn TV's breakout mystery
series You're Killing Me. She is someone who has continually
(01:02):
redefined herself and reclaimed herself. And I am just in
awe of the woman that she is. Whether she's talking
about motherhood, aging, mental health, work, deep reflection, or being
the absolute funniest person in the room, she is in
(01:23):
an era where she seems less interested in meeting other
people's expectations and perhaps more interested in living according to
her own values. I am fascinated by a life led
by someone who's been looked at her whole life, who's
finally deciding how she wants to be seen. So let's
(01:46):
dive in today with our dear friend Brookshield. Well, I'm
just so excited for all the things for you. I'm
loving the new show. I have a million things I
want to ask you about, okay before we jump into
(02:10):
the present, which is so full and so gorgeous. I
am really curious, especially for you, because you have I mean,
you've been famous your whole life. You know when you
did you were eleven when you booked Pretty Baby. You've
done this incredible act. I think of love for women
(02:33):
and of mothering so many of us and your community,
in addition to your beautiful daughters. By reflecting and sharing
in the books you've written and the conversations you've had
with us and for us out on these stages, I
think have made us all feel so seen. And I'm
really curious for you now, not just in terms of
(02:54):
your advocacy as a woman in the public eye, but
but for you, Brooke. If you got to walk out
in the backyard and encounter yourself at nine or ten
years old, what would it feel like to see yourself
now with all your wisdom and all your experience. Do
(03:15):
you think that little girl would see herself in you?
Would you see who you are now in her?
Speaker 2 (03:21):
I think I would see who I am now in her.
I don't know if she would see herself in me,
because because I think if you know, being that young
and sort of like exposed and commented on and in
(03:42):
the public eye and fighting for your friendships and school
and being lucky actually that I lived in New York
and my mom was, you know, very adamant about my
going to real schools and not moving out to get
a high school equivalency test and be a kid actress.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
I think that helped.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
But I think I was so desiring of being liked
and I just didn't know that I was enough. And
I don't know if you're supposed to know that at
that age. I mean, I try to instill that in
my children from when they were younger, to sort of say, like,
be you. You are more than you even know. But
(04:24):
I want you to know it, and I want you
to feel confident. And it's hard, but if you surround
yourself by good people. I had my mom, which was
really lucky, and I had friends that were none of
them were actresses, and I think that those types of
grounding forces helped me navigate not losing myself entirely. But
(04:48):
I don't think I would have had the confidence to say, like, oh,
that you're going to be You're going to have longevity,
and you're going to be this, and you're going to
be looked at like this. I think I would have
been I probably wouldn't have believed in that's so cool.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
You know. You talk about your mom being part of
that grounding for you, and now as a mom, when
you look back at your early career, do you think
you understand things differently about your relationship with her and
how those things have informed your own vibe as a mom.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
I think I've taken actually a lot, you know. I
in one of my There was a Little Girl. One
of the first lines in the book is, you know,
we spend our lives either running away from or running
towards our mothers, you know, and like even the most
decorated of soldiers on their deathbed will yell for their mommy.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (05:47):
There's such a profound, profound connection between children and their mothers.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
But I think mothers and daughters as well. I don't.
That's my perspective.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
But I think I took so much more from her
than less her sense of humor, her work, ethic, her joy,
her appreciation of everything that was that is given to
you or afforded you, and friends.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
And I think that I that.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
She was actually for as broken, scarred, alcoholic, scared as
she was, she had such deep love and I really
purely felt loved.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
And I think that.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
That is and I didn't feel judged because I was
being judged by the world. She sort of said, you know,
you're on this like you are everything you know, and
there is something to be said for that for children
to think that their mother thinks they're the best in
the entire universe.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
You know.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
And I think that that that's what I try to
And I have two girls, which is weird because they're
constantly saying, well, I'm her favorite, Well no i am,
and you're like, who who do you love more? And
You're like, there's no such thing.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Yeah, yeah, you're like, depending on how you act, one
of you will be my favorite on any given day.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
Yeah, you better behave it is so funny.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
And now a word from our sponsors who make this
show possible. You know, it's so interesting to think about
what you're able to hold, right, And I think that's
(07:46):
such a marker of healthy evolution in life when you can,
when you can hold the good and the bad and
and give grace to all of it. And you know,
you speak about your mother in that way, in a
way that I think is so honest and also so generous.
(08:07):
And I wonder if the desire to do that do
you think it was added to I think it's a
natural thing, right, you want to process your life and
be okay with all of it and do the work
and be a healthy person. But I think about it
for you because for so long you had so many
(08:28):
other people's opinions, and all those opinions were ordered in
whatever way each of those people thought about them projected
onto you, like beauty and innocence and controversy and being
sexualized or not being sexualized, and glamor and fame and
like all these things that you had to meet when
(08:51):
you were also meeting people. And do you think that
knowing how you had to do the work to take
all that stuff apart and then and then be able
to hold it all, do you think that also made
you in a way like so much better at doing
the personal stuff too, because you were like, oh, no,
I know how to do this. I know how to
(09:12):
analyze the landscape of something and figure out where I
fit in the middle of it.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
I think that's a very astute way of looking at it,
because I think I was doing that before I knew
I was doing it right.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
So, you know, you you read a room, right, you.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Just go, you know, it's like heat seeking missile and
you and you feel behind you and you're and you're
just like and you're you're taking the temperature all the time, right,
So just to be able to and I'm I'm proud.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
Of being able to navigate that and do that.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
And I learned it at such a young age that
in my like when I went to school or in
my personal life, it made it.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
You know.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
I watched other kids, you know, my age sort of
fight through it all in flounder or get their feelings
hurt or you know, and I would think, like, oh,
I don't waste the time anymore, you know what I mean.
I don't and I don't feel obligated. It's like to
have to be part of that group or this, or
(10:18):
if somebody doesn't call.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
Me back, what did I do? What I do wrong?
What I do wrong? You know?
Speaker 2 (10:22):
And I would watch that sort of angst in other
students and I would think, like, Oh, all of this past,
this history, this navigation, this adult world actually gave me
a certain presence and power in really being able to
(10:43):
enjoy this and meet people where they.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
Are, not where I want them to be, right.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
And that's very freeing because then you can, you know,
you can genuinely like someone and if you don't or
they don't like you, it's okay.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
You know, it's not the end of the world.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
And I think that being surrounded and having to be
a professional and operating and watching adults act like children,
you know, and bad behavior and you think, oh my god,
don't they see how they're coming across?
Speaker 3 (11:22):
Why is that okay?
Speaker 2 (11:23):
And I don't want to be that and it, you know,
and it allowed me to understand what I didn't want
and who I didn't want to be right, you know,
what I didn't want, what I wanted to reveal, and
what I hoped to nurture in myself, because you can
go any direction if you think.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
About it, you know.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
And I I remember thinking, no, I don't I want
to be the best of myself, and I want to
be a good person, and I want good people in
my life that are there for mean, you know, I
in my sixtieth year, I all of my different groups
of friends, like my high schoo buddies, my college buddies,
(12:01):
like my work buddies, individually but in their kind of groups.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
And they don't know each other.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
Instead of having like a big party with everybody, which
would have just made me so uncomfortable, we did specific
things and in each sort of clump you know, of gals,
we all mentioned like I just got a text this
morning from one of one of the girls and said,
(12:29):
it's amazing how long we've been friends. And I always
feel the best me when I'm around you guys, and
it because there's such there's such deep connection in years
and we've been through so much together. But like there's
something so comforting about having long term friends. And I
think that at a very early age, partially because my
(12:53):
mother again wouldn't let me just give school up and
just work, I was able to have quote unquote normal friendships,
you know, and they're still around today, and it's it's
such a great feeling to be able to say, wow,
I've got these quality friends and we've known each other
over forty years.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
Yeah, oh, I love that so much. I have a
group like that, my three closest friends from high school
and I and it is so special.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
Not everybody has it.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
It's like I talk to people and they're like, you're
still friends with them?
Speaker 1 (13:29):
I know, And I feel so lucky, especially because not
everybody is.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
We had friends.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
So many people's friendships fractured, but there is this little
group of us that started going to school together in
the seventh grade and we have just like been on
this ride together for so long, and it's so special
and interestingly enough, you know, we we have deeper friendships
(13:54):
we've all made in our adulthood. You know where you
find you find your people that are so much like
you and they care about all the same things you
care about and whatever, and still like it might one
of the one of the girlfriends of the four of us,
like we literally could not be more different people, and
we just cackle, like when we talk about and we
(14:15):
realize we are like I am Day and she is
Knight or vice versa. We just laugh because we're obsessed
with each other and it's so I don't know. There's
something so special about it, about all of it, and
I I don't know. It must be really surreal. You know,
you were talking about your kids friends all being over
(14:36):
the other day. It must be so crazy to watch
your daughters take that whole journey. You know, you have
these babies and they grow and you watch them go
through middle school and high school and college, and like,
is it so surreal? Because you've been a woman who's
chosen to be so self reflective and to do the
(14:58):
work and also share the work with people, to then
watch your kids do it, it's like, I feel like
you are the wisest woman because you've taken inventory of
your life in this direction, and then you've raised lives
in this direction. And like do you just go whoa
when you look at your kids wild?
Speaker 2 (15:16):
Because they're not me, right, so that's already wild.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
You're like, oh, you're a person.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
I didn't plan that, you know, And and they's they're
so different there there, and they are night and day.
And but then you've watched like the first time I
visited my daughter in college, my older one, and she
had inside jokes with people I'd never met and nicknames
(15:48):
and they you know, kind of came up and run
up and tackled her, or you know, gave her a
hard time about something, and I was just.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
Like, what, how do you know my daughter? What? What
do you mean?
Speaker 2 (15:58):
What?
Speaker 3 (15:59):
You're not a part of it.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
It's really hard to not want to make it about
you and separate and and just let it happen because
you don't know who you are anymore.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
Right, You're not really mom in the same way.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
And they're they have these relationships and they're growing up
and you you're not needed in the same way.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
Which, by the way, means you did your job right.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
But it must be so hard. You're like, oh, no, no,
I did not bargain for this. I know.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
I wanted you to be your own person, independent, blah
blah blah, but not that right.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
I didn't want you to have friends, and.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
You're just kind of you know, and then you bring
in boyfriends and there's an intimacy there that you're really
excluded from, and you're just like, oh, oh god, if
I want to put you back.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
In, oh that is so fun.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
But then another interesting thing happens as they get to
become more women, as they're evolving into these more fully
flushed and continuing, continuing to evolve women.
Speaker 3 (17:10):
We had a big, big dinner for.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
The television show as like a mystery murder mystery dinner,
and it was this beautiful party seeded dinner and it
was amazing and it was like I felt so celebrated,
but it was and you know, that's not usually comfortable
for me, but they were people that I had known
for so many years, and I hadn't seen so many
of them, and they all came out, I mean to
(17:37):
drive to you know, East Hampton and do this.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
You know, it's just I couldn't believe the effort people made.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
But my girls were sitting there and you know that
you play this game and I had never done it before.
They were the most vibrant, hysterically funny women who were
laughing and you know, every time a clue it happened,
one of them would go oh like that, and it
(18:03):
was like they weren't trying to pull attention or be theatrical.
They were just present and joyful and they were just
so in the in their skin and they were funny.
And I watched, you know, there were like a lot
of famous people too.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
Like that they would recognize.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
And I watched those people look at these girls and
there were three of them. One of I call their
daughter their best friend from from grade school and still
you know, graduated college and they're still best friends and
and you know, and it's it's so lovely to see.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
And I watched them being watched by.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
Other people with like they were laughing with them and
at them in the best way, and they were engaged
and engaging, and you know, you don't get to see
that that often. And then there was a really beautiful
toast made and it was you know, in the CEO
(19:05):
of AMC Global Media was there, and so it was
kind of very business for me.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
And you know, I said, this was my boss.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
And I said to my daughters and and I watched
my daughters hear things about me that you know, I
I can't say, you know what I mean, And so
and I could see them be proud and also like, okay, yeah,
mom's like that, she's she's she does a lot, like
(19:37):
she's okay, she's good.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
Like they looked up to me in a way.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
And then they just took off like they they ended
up winning the whole game. And it was like there
was there was like forty people at this at this thing.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
And people were taking very seriously.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
And and they won.
Speaker 3 (19:57):
And then one of the other the news.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Well it was like but Rowan, we got it too,
and and Ron was like, okay, you know what, your
good luck.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
But it was like it was just really nice. So
it's it's very surreal.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
But when they want to be around you and they
say like, Mom, can we you.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
Know, will you come out with us? Or will you
will you do this with us?
Speaker 2 (20:20):
And when they're not ashamed of their mommy, you know,
it's it does come back around kind of and you
start to sort of, you know, have a cocktail with
your daughters and I love you. But it's it's lovely,
you know, and it feels good and it feels wonderful
that they still enjoy being around me when they want to.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
Be Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
And now a word from our sponsors. I can't wait
to send this episode to my mom because I we've
been through our own version of I think that complicated
thing when you're you did raise smart independent women and
(21:09):
they go out in their independent world and it's hard.
And there was a period where I was doing the
same and it was I know, it was tough for
my mom, and also it was necessary for my life.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
And we are in this place.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
Now where yes, she's my parent and I'm her daughter,
but also we're more friends, like we're peers.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
You know.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
I'm an adult, she's an adult. And whenever I'm home
on the West Coast, we go to the flea market
together every weekend and my mom comes with me and
all my friends and my friends are like, Mom's coming,
you know, and it's this cool thing, and my mom
is back in the space where she was. Oh my god,
we have to but like, my mom's back in the
(21:55):
space that she was in when I was, you know, thirteen, fourteen,
fifteen sixteen. She was always the mom all my friends
wanted to hang out with. She was the one my
friends wanted to ask advice of which I just know
is exactly you. And now she's kind of like mom
gets invited again to the stuff and it's so fun
and it's so sweet, and I don't know, it makes
(22:16):
me really nostalgic for her to hear you talking about
the stage you're in the journey with your girls, and
it's a trip because it makes me realize how long
I've known you. I will never forget you said something
when your kids were little that really solidified like this
thing I talk about a lot now, which is everyone
(22:37):
wants to cartoonify motherhood and I think it does such
a disservice to moms and I will never forget. It's
like it's the most magical thing you've ever done, and
it's also the hardest. And anyone who says it's not
hard as a trader, And like you said a thing
forever ago, somebody said like when did it? You know,
when did you really know you were a mom? And
(22:59):
you were talking about having one of the babies like
up in the air, and that one of them when
you had them up laughing, threw up in your mouth
and you had to be like, Okay, I can't drop
the baby. I have to hold this in my mouth.
I have to get the baby, you know, settled, and
then go clean myself up. And it has stayed with
(23:22):
me for so.
Speaker 3 (23:23):
Long, and there was like a traumatized no.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
I just was like, no one's ever said it out loud,
and I'll never forget it. It was like it was
like an ESNL skit that makes an impact, But I
read it and I will never forget, you know, I
don't know, what is it like a year two years ago,
like a stomach bug's going around pre k and I am,
you know, holding ashes our precious little boy who's like
(23:51):
my favorite little boy literally on the planet. And I
got thrown up on in such a way that was
like in my mouth, in my eyes, in my hair,
down my shirt just so, and I was like, okay,
here we go, like I have to. It's okay, don't
be scared, You're okay, Like and what do I do
(24:13):
and how do I how do I manage this moment?
And I thought about you, and I was like, it's official,
it's official, Like that's the thing. And you've shared like
the funny things and the real things, and you know
you talked about postpartum before anybody would, and like you,
I don't know, you've just been so generous with us
(24:35):
for so long in ways that I think make women
feel seen, and so in all the years I've known you,
like over and over again, you you do.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
That for me. Oh gosh, thank you.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
I mean, I've always always looked up to you, and
I've always really loved your brain and loved the way
you treat people, and and obviously your talent that just
goes without saying. But your intellect and your willingness to
(25:07):
just but really your willingness to sort of have convictions
and speak them and enter and debate and conversation. And
to me, like, that's just such a beautiful thing in
to be a mom and have that, you know what
I mean, and be a friend, and be a wife
(25:27):
and be a partner and be you know, a colleague
and all of those things that what you represent is
such a beautiful image for women in particular to own
all of the complexities of being a woman, do you
know what I mean? The yes, the beauty, but the intellect,
(25:49):
but the sex appeal, but the strength and the vulnerability
and all of that is what makes a woman, do
you know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (25:58):
And to be not afraid to reveal it.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
And I mean, I feel like the second I met you,
I was like, oh yeah, I was like and then
you compounded it by having the white tattoo, when I
was like, oh god, never.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
Gonna be a pool.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
It's just like, you know that that type of model
as a female is really is and you share it too.
And I'm proud to say that you're my friend.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
You know, I just love you, sweet soul. I am
enjoying this conversation so much. Join us for part two
so we can ask Brooke all the questions we have
about her breakout series, You're Killing Me on Acorn TV.
See you for part two.
Hey, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to work in progress. Welcome
back to work in progress friends. Today we are joined
by a woman I adore so much, who I've also
(00:21):
been lucky enough to call a co star. She is
an exceptional coworker. She is the sort of woman who
mentors all of us through her example, and she also
happens to be someone I've looked up to literally my
entire life. Today we are joined by the icon Brookshields.
(00:41):
Brook has spent her entire life in the public eye,
from being a child movie star to a model, to
a best selling author, entrepreneur, and now wearing her latest
hat as the executive producer of Acorn TV's breakout mystery
series You're Killing Me. She is someone who has continually
(01:02):
redefined herself and reclaimed herself. And I am just in
awe of the woman that she is. Whether she's talking
about motherhood, aging, mental health, work, deep reflection, or being
the absolute funniest person in the room, she is in
(01:23):
an era where she seems less interested in meeting other
people's expectations and perhaps more interested in living according to
her own values. I am fascinated by a life led
by someone who's been looked at her whole life, who's
finally deciding how she wants to be seen. So let's
(01:46):
dive in today with our dear friend Brookshield. Well, I'm
just so excited for all the things for you. I'm
loving the new show. I have a million things I
want to ask you about, okay before we jump into
(02:10):
the present, which is so full and so gorgeous. I
am really curious, especially for you, because you have I mean,
you've been famous your whole life. You know when you
did you were eleven when you booked Pretty Baby. You've
done this incredible act. I think of love for women
(02:33):
and of mothering so many of us and your community,
in addition to your beautiful daughters. By reflecting and sharing
in the books you've written and the conversations you've had
with us and for us out on these stages, I
think have made us all feel so seen. And I'm
really curious for you now, not just in terms of
(02:54):
your advocacy as a woman in the public eye, but
but for you, Brooke. If you got to walk out
in the backyard and encounter yourself at nine or ten
years old, what would it feel like to see yourself
now with all your wisdom and all your experience. Do
(03:15):
you think that little girl would see herself in you?
Would you see who you are now in her?
Speaker 2 (03:21):
I think I would see who I am now in her.
I don't know if she would see herself in me,
because because I think if you know, being that young
and sort of like exposed and commented on and in
(03:42):
the public eye and fighting for your friendships and school
and being lucky actually that I lived in New York
and my mom was, you know, very adamant about my
going to real schools and not moving out to get
a high school equivalency test and be a kid actress.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
I think that helped.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
But I think I was so desiring of being liked
and I just didn't know that I was enough. And
I don't know if you're supposed to know that at
that age. I mean, I try to instill that in
my children from when they were younger, to sort of say, like,
be you. You are more than you even know. But
(04:24):
I want you to know it, and I want you
to feel confident. And it's hard, but if you surround
yourself by good people. I had my mom, which was
really lucky, and I had friends that were none of
them were actresses, and I think that those types of
grounding forces helped me navigate not losing myself entirely. But
(04:48):
I don't think I would have had the confidence to say, like, oh,
that you're going to be You're going to have longevity,
and you're going to be this, and you're going to
be looked at like this. I think I would have
been I probably wouldn't have believed in that's so cool.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
You know. You talk about your mom being part of
that grounding for you, and now as a mom, when
you look back at your early career, do you think
you understand things differently about your relationship with her and
how those things have informed your own vibe as a mom.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
I think I've taken actually a lot, you know. I
in one of my There was a Little Girl. One
of the first lines in the book is, you know,
we spend our lives either running away from or running
towards our mothers, you know, and like even the most
decorated of soldiers on their deathbed will yell for their mommy.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (05:47):
There's such a profound, profound connection between children and their mothers.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
But I think mothers and daughters as well. I don't.
That's my perspective.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
But I think I took so much more from her
than less her sense of humor, her work, ethic, her joy,
her appreciation of everything that was that is given to
you or afforded you, and friends.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
And I think that I that.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
She was actually for as broken, scarred, alcoholic, scared as
she was, she had such deep love and I really
purely felt loved.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
And I think that.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
That is and I didn't feel judged because I was
being judged by the world. She sort of said, you know,
you're on this like you are everything you know, and
there is something to be said for that for children
to think that their mother thinks they're the best in
the entire universe.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
You know.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
And I think that that that's what I try to
And I have two girls, which is weird because they're
constantly saying, well, I'm her favorite, Well no i am,
and you're like, who who do you love more? And
You're like, there's no such thing.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Yeah, yeah, you're like, depending on how you act, one
of you will be my favorite on any given day.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
Yeah, you better behave it is so funny.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
And now a word from our sponsors who make this
show possible. You know, it's so interesting to think about
what you're able to hold, right, And I think that's
(07:46):
such a marker of healthy evolution in life when you can,
when you can hold the good and the bad and
and give grace to all of it. And you know,
you speak about your mother in that way, in a
way that I think is so honest and also so generous.
(08:07):
And I wonder if the desire to do that do
you think it was added to I think it's a
natural thing, right, you want to process your life and
be okay with all of it and do the work
and be a healthy person. But I think about it
for you because for so long you had so many
(08:28):
other people's opinions, and all those opinions were ordered in
whatever way each of those people thought about them projected
onto you, like beauty and innocence and controversy and being
sexualized or not being sexualized, and glamor and fame and
like all these things that you had to meet when
(08:51):
you were also meeting people. And do you think that
knowing how you had to do the work to take
all that stuff apart and then and then be able
to hold it all, do you think that also made
you in a way like so much better at doing
the personal stuff too, because you were like, oh, no,
I know how to do this. I know how to
(09:12):
analyze the landscape of something and figure out where I
fit in the middle of it.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
I think that's a very astute way of looking at it,
because I think I was doing that before I knew
I was doing it right.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
So, you know, you you read a room, right, you.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Just go, you know, it's like heat seeking missile and
you and you feel behind you and you're and you're
just like and you're you're taking the temperature all the time, right,
So just to be able to and I'm I'm proud.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
Of being able to navigate that and do that.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
And I learned it at such a young age that
in my like when I went to school or in
my personal life, it made it.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
You know.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
I watched other kids, you know, my age sort of
fight through it all in flounder or get their feelings
hurt or you know, and I would think, like, oh,
I don't waste the time anymore, you know what I mean.
I don't and I don't feel obligated. It's like to
have to be part of that group or this, or
(10:18):
if somebody doesn't call.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
Me back, what did I do? What I do wrong?
What I do wrong? You know?
Speaker 2 (10:22):
And I would watch that sort of angst in other
students and I would think, like, Oh, all of this past,
this history, this navigation, this adult world actually gave me
a certain presence and power in really being able to
(10:43):
enjoy this and meet people where they.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
Are, not where I want them to be, right.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
And that's very freeing because then you can, you know,
you can genuinely like someone and if you don't or
they don't like you, it's okay.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
You know, it's not the end of the world.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
And I think that being surrounded and having to be
a professional and operating and watching adults act like children,
you know, and bad behavior and you think, oh my god,
don't they see how they're coming across?
Speaker 3 (11:22):
Why is that okay?
Speaker 2 (11:23):
And I don't want to be that and it, you know,
and it allowed me to understand what I didn't want
and who I didn't want to be right, you know,
what I didn't want, what I wanted to reveal, and
what I hoped to nurture in myself, because you can
go any direction if you think.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
About it, you know.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
And I I remember thinking, no, I don't I want
to be the best of myself, and I want to
be a good person, and I want good people in
my life that are there for mean, you know, I
in my sixtieth year, I all of my different groups
of friends, like my high schoo buddies, my college buddies,
(12:01):
like my work buddies, individually but in their kind of groups.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
And they don't know each other.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
Instead of having like a big party with everybody, which
would have just made me so uncomfortable, we did specific
things and in each sort of clump you know, of gals,
we all mentioned like I just got a text this
morning from one of one of the girls and said,
(12:29):
it's amazing how long we've been friends. And I always
feel the best me when I'm around you guys, and
it because there's such there's such deep connection in years
and we've been through so much together. But like there's
something so comforting about having long term friends. And I
think that at a very early age, partially because my
(12:53):
mother again wouldn't let me just give school up and
just work, I was able to have quote unquote normal friendships,
you know, and they're still around today, and it's it's
such a great feeling to be able to say, wow,
I've got these quality friends and we've known each other
over forty years.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
Yeah, oh, I love that so much. I have a
group like that, my three closest friends from high school
and I and it is so special.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
Not everybody has it.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
It's like I talk to people and they're like, you're
still friends with them?
Speaker 1 (13:29):
I know, And I feel so lucky, especially because not
everybody is.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
We had friends.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
So many people's friendships fractured, but there is this little
group of us that started going to school together in
the seventh grade and we have just like been on
this ride together for so long, and it's so special
and interestingly enough, you know, we we have deeper friendships
(13:54):
we've all made in our adulthood. You know where you
find you find your people that are so much like
you and they care about all the same things you
care about and whatever, and still like it might one
of the one of the girlfriends of the four of us,
like we literally could not be more different people, and
we just cackle, like when we talk about and we
(14:15):
realize we are like I am Day and she is
Knight or vice versa. We just laugh because we're obsessed
with each other and it's so I don't know. There's
something so special about it, about all of it, and
I I don't know. It must be really surreal. You know,
you were talking about your kids friends all being over
(14:36):
the other day. It must be so crazy to watch
your daughters take that whole journey. You know, you have
these babies and they grow and you watch them go
through middle school and high school and college, and like,
is it so surreal? Because you've been a woman who's
chosen to be so self reflective and to do the
(14:58):
work and also share the work with people, to then
watch your kids do it, it's like, I feel like
you are the wisest woman because you've taken inventory of
your life in this direction, and then you've raised lives
in this direction. And like do you just go whoa
when you look at your kids wild?
Speaker 2 (15:16):
Because they're not me, right, so that's already wild.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
You're like, oh, you're a person.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
I didn't plan that, you know, And and they's they're
so different there there, and they are night and day.
And but then you've watched like the first time I
visited my daughter in college, my older one, and she
had inside jokes with people I'd never met and nicknames
(15:48):
and they you know, kind of came up and run
up and tackled her, or you know, gave her a
hard time about something, and I was just.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
Like, what, how do you know my daughter? What? What
do you mean?
Speaker 2 (15:58):
What?
Speaker 3 (15:59):
You're not a part of it.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
It's really hard to not want to make it about
you and separate and and just let it happen because
you don't know who you are anymore.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
Right, You're not really mom in the same way.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
And they're they have these relationships and they're growing up
and you you're not needed in the same way.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
Which, by the way, means you did your job right.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
But it must be so hard. You're like, oh, no, no,
I did not bargain for this. I know.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
I wanted you to be your own person, independent, blah
blah blah, but not that right.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
I didn't want you to have friends, and.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
You're just kind of you know, and then you bring
in boyfriends and there's an intimacy there that you're really
excluded from, and you're just like, oh, oh god, if
I want to put you back.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
In, oh that is so fun.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
But then another interesting thing happens as they get to
become more women, as they're evolving into these more fully
flushed and continuing, continuing to evolve women.
Speaker 3 (17:10):
We had a big, big dinner for.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
The television show as like a mystery murder mystery dinner,
and it was this beautiful party seeded dinner and it
was amazing and it was like I felt so celebrated,
but it was and you know, that's not usually comfortable
for me, but they were people that I had known
for so many years, and I hadn't seen so many
of them, and they all came out, I mean to
(17:37):
drive to you know, East Hampton and do this.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
You know, it's just I couldn't believe the effort people made.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
But my girls were sitting there and you know that
you play this game and I had never done it before.
They were the most vibrant, hysterically funny women who were
laughing and you know, every time a clue it happened,
one of them would go oh like that, and it
(18:03):
was like they weren't trying to pull attention or be theatrical.
They were just present and joyful and they were just
so in the in their skin and they were funny.
And I watched, you know, there were like a lot
of famous people too.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
Like that they would recognize.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
And I watched those people look at these girls and
there were three of them. One of I call their
daughter their best friend from from grade school and still
you know, graduated college and they're still best friends and
and you know, and it's it's so lovely to see.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
And I watched them being watched by.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
Other people with like they were laughing with them and
at them in the best way, and they were engaged
and engaging, and you know, you don't get to see
that that often. And then there was a really beautiful
toast made and it was you know, in the CEO
(19:05):
of AMC Global Media was there, and so it was
kind of very business for me.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
And you know, I said, this was my boss.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
And I said to my daughters and and I watched
my daughters hear things about me that you know, I
I can't say, you know what I mean, And so
and I could see them be proud and also like, okay, yeah,
mom's like that, she's she's she does a lot, like
(19:37):
she's okay, she's good.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
Like they looked up to me in a way.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
And then they just took off like they they ended
up winning the whole game. And it was like there
was there was like forty people at this at this thing.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
And people were taking very seriously.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
And and they won.
Speaker 3 (19:57):
And then one of the other the news.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Well it was like but Rowan, we got it too,
and and Ron was like, okay, you know what, your
good luck.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
But it was like it was just really nice. So
it's it's very surreal.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
But when they want to be around you and they
say like, Mom, can we you.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
Know, will you come out with us? Or will you
will you do this with us?
Speaker 2 (20:20):
And when they're not ashamed of their mommy, you know,
it's it does come back around kind of and you
start to sort of, you know, have a cocktail with
your daughters and I love you. But it's it's lovely,
you know, and it feels good and it feels wonderful
that they still enjoy being around me when they want to.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
Be Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
And now a word from our sponsors. I can't wait
to send this episode to my mom because I we've
been through our own version of I think that complicated
thing when you're you did raise smart independent women and
(21:09):
they go out in their independent world and it's hard.
And there was a period where I was doing the
same and it was I know, it was tough for
my mom, and also it was necessary for my life.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
And we are in this place.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
Now where yes, she's my parent and I'm her daughter,
but also we're more friends, like we're peers.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
You know.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
I'm an adult, she's an adult. And whenever I'm home
on the West Coast, we go to the flea market
together every weekend and my mom comes with me and
all my friends and my friends are like, Mom's coming,
you know, and it's this cool thing, and my mom
is back in the space where she was. Oh my god,
we have to but like, my mom's back in the
(21:55):
space that she was in when I was, you know, thirteen, fourteen,
fifteen sixteen. She was always the mom all my friends
wanted to hang out with. She was the one my
friends wanted to ask advice of which I just know
is exactly you. And now she's kind of like mom
gets invited again to the stuff and it's so fun
and it's so sweet, and I don't know, it makes
(22:16):
me really nostalgic for her to hear you talking about
the stage you're in the journey with your girls, and
it's a trip because it makes me realize how long
I've known you. I will never forget you said something
when your kids were little that really solidified like this
thing I talk about a lot now, which is everyone
(22:37):
wants to cartoonify motherhood and I think it does such
a disservice to moms and I will never forget. It's
like it's the most magical thing you've ever done, and
it's also the hardest. And anyone who says it's not
hard as a trader, And like you said a thing
forever ago, somebody said like when did it? You know,
when did you really know you were a mom? And
(22:59):
you were talking about having one of the babies like
up in the air, and that one of them when
you had them up laughing, threw up in your mouth
and you had to be like, Okay, I can't drop
the baby. I have to hold this in my mouth.
I have to get the baby, you know, settled, and
then go clean myself up. And it has stayed with
(23:22):
me for so.
Speaker 3 (23:23):
Long, and there was like a traumatized no.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
I just was like, no one's ever said it out loud,
and I'll never forget it. It was like it was
like an ESNL skit that makes an impact, But I
read it and I will never forget, you know, I
don't know, what is it like a year two years ago,
like a stomach bug's going around pre k and I am,
you know, holding ashes our precious little boy who's like
(23:51):
my favorite little boy literally on the planet. And I
got thrown up on in such a way that was
like in my mouth, in my eyes, in my hair,
down my shirt just so, and I was like, okay,
here we go, like I have to. It's okay, don't
be scared, You're okay, Like and what do I do
(24:13):
and how do I how do I manage this moment?
And I thought about you, and I was like, it's official,
it's official, Like that's the thing. And you've shared like
the funny things and the real things, and you know
you talked about postpartum before anybody would, and like you,
I don't know, you've just been so generous with us
(24:35):
for so long in ways that I think make women
feel seen, and so in all the years I've known you,
like over and over again, you you do.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
That for me. Oh gosh, thank you.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
I mean, I've always always looked up to you, and
I've always really loved your brain and loved the way
you treat people, and and obviously your talent that just
goes without saying. But your intellect and your willingness to
(25:07):
just but really your willingness to sort of have convictions
and speak them and enter and debate and conversation. And
to me, like, that's just such a beautiful thing in
to be a mom and have that, you know what
I mean, and be a friend, and be a wife
(25:27):
and be a partner and be you know, a colleague
and all of those things that what you represent is
such a beautiful image for women in particular to own
all of the complexities of being a woman, do you
know what I mean? The yes, the beauty, but the intellect,
(25:49):
but the sex appeal, but the strength and the vulnerability
and all of that is what makes a woman, do
you know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (25:58):
And to be not afraid to reveal it.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
And I mean, I feel like the second I met you,
I was like, oh yeah, I was like and then
you compounded it by having the white tattoo, when I
was like, oh god, never.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
Gonna be a pool.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
It's just like, you know that that type of model
as a female is really is and you share it too.
And I'm proud to say that you're my friend.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
You know, I just love you, sweet soul. I am
enjoying this conversation so much. Join us for part two
so we can ask Brooke all the questions we have
about her breakout series, You're Killing Me on Acorn TV.
See you for part two.
Host
Sophia Bush
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