June 3, 2026 • 38 mins
Hayley Kiyoko turned her pop anthem “Girls Like Girls” into a best-selling novel and now a hotly anticipated feature film. But the 10-year struggle to see this movie get made only strengthened Hayley's resolve to ensure queer, female stories are shared loudly and proudly.
Find out how Hayley went from Disney Channel star to "Lesbian Jesus" and why a recent Coachella performance became a magical, full-circle moment.
"Girls Like Girls" is in theaters on June 19th.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to work in progress. Welcome
to this week's work in progress. Friends, it is June,
(00:20):
it is pride ooh, and we have some queer joy
on the show today. Our guest is none other than
Haley Kioko, one of my favorite voices, one of my
fellow Angel CITYFC lifelong supporters, and one of the coolest
artists that I know. Long before she became a defining
(00:44):
voice for queer storytelling, she was navigating incredibly early career
success as a Disney Channel star, but like so many
of us, fear of scrutiny made her shrink herself even
with all of those amazing achievements. But that changed she
turned twenty four. Hailey released a song, Girls Like Girls,
(01:04):
that centered on, celebrated and championed queer love, and instead
of judgment, she found an audience that accepted her and
saw themselves in her. And it marked a point where
her identity shifted from something private and complicated to something
public and powerful. And what has followed is an incredibly
(01:26):
beautiful and rare kind of creative evolution. The same story
from the song has grown into a number one New
York Times bestselling novel and now a feature film that
Haley co wrote and directed. What many people don't know
is that it took ten years to get this movie
to the stage of being made. But along the way
(01:49):
she never gave up. She went from feeling pressure to
tone herself down to being absolutely embraced. And I know
my younger self feels healed watching her do that. I
imagine many of yours do too. Let's dive into this
whole creative path with our friend, Hailey Kyoko. I'm so
(02:19):
excited and I'm so happy you're here too. I think
about all of the cool overlap you and I are
lucky enough to have as creatives, as sports fans, as Angelino's,
like all the things.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
We do have a lot of comments.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Yeah, and I mean and you even more so than me.
I mean, like, I you know, I've been in the
public sphere since I don't know, a week after my
twenty first birthday. You've been in it since you were
a kid. But I'm actually really curious even before, like
from this vantage point in your life, when you have
(02:57):
so beautifully talked about how all the things you didn't
know were going to line up have and you know,
you look back at your younger self, and you wish
she knew these things. I wonder do you think if
you had this sort of like freaky Friday experience and
you could hang out with your eight year old self today,
(03:18):
would you see yourself in her? Do you think she
would see herself in you?
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Totally?
Speaker 3 (03:24):
And that's I mean, love for you Friday, But that
would be so.
Speaker 4 (03:28):
Odd starting at my younger self.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
But I definitely feel like, like most people, my younger
self motivates and drives me of like what I want
in my life and what I've always dreamed of having.
Speaker 4 (03:43):
And so I definitely feel like if young.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
Haley could know what I was up to, she would
be like, oh my gosh, I'm going to be so cool.
Speaker 4 (03:54):
When I grow up.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
And I just had no foresight whatsoever.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
I felt very hopeless about being able to truly like
thrive as myself when I was so young. So I
feel like it would be such a cool thing for
her to see.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
That's really cool. Where do you feel like your understanding
you know, not just as a kid who wanted to
be creative or make art or who was curious about
the world, but as a queer kid. Do you have
the ability to look back at any moments in your
childhood and go.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Oh, there it was.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
That's when I knew, or maybe that's when I should
have known, Like there were signs.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Oh yeah, I was very I was.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
It's weird because I didn't have the tools or the language,
but I knew who I was from I think my
first grade teacher I was like in love with and
I was six or something whatever, six five or six,
but I but.
Speaker 4 (05:01):
I didn't know.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
I just knew that how I felt was wrong from
what society told me, and that no one else felt
that way.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
So that was like, I think that's why my You.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
Know, everyone has their own journey with their sexuality and
their queerness, and mine I carried throughout my adolescence and
was definitely something that I was having to navigate. And
my parents are super supportive now, But it wasn't like
we were having open conversations or reading books with two
(05:37):
moms or like having hey, like life could look like
this or it could look like this, And so I
really was on my own navigating those feelings and knowing
that I was a lesbian and I was only interested
in girls, and it really kind of dominated my experience
(05:58):
through all school.
Speaker 4 (06:00):
You know, yeah, school, that's so interesting.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
It's like trying to sort of figure it out, even
for myself in adulthood in terms of what I knew
and maybe what I wasn't picking up on as a kid.
It's really hilarious to me, Like the levity comes in,
Like we were just watching clips of all the home
movies with Ash and my family and.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
She's like, look at this little lesbian, Like you have always.
Speaker 5 (06:30):
Been like a halder now yeah, and it's just like
we were hackling.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
And it's so interesting to me because I've also really
had to look back at the lens of queerness in
terms of, of course the portion of it that is
your sexual identity, but queerness is like a total identity also,
you know, the kinds of friendships you build, the way
(06:57):
you see the world, the way you're you are inherently
more solutions oriented, creative, inclusive, like and I don't know,
there's all these moments now that I look at and
I go like, oh, were we focusing on my obvious
neurodivergence or was all my addity oddity like difference put
(07:19):
into Oh, her brain's wired differently. I'm like, yeah, and
I'm also queerish you.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
All these epiphanies like oh my gosh, yeah, yeah, I mean,
I mean, I feel like so many people can resonate
with your experience, and so many people can probably resonate
with mine. And I was very overt, like my friends
called me Mowgli and I want to wear a shirt
and I refuse to wear a dress, and I was
just very.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Gay.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
You were very Bermuda shorts.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Yes, yeah, so.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
Yeah, I don't have like oh, but I think my
experience was more like I was experiencing it in real time, and.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
I was like, how do I hide myself? How do
I make myself smaller?
Speaker 3 (08:08):
How do I fit myself in this box? And if
I want to be successful in this industry? You know,
when I was young, there was like Ellen, Ellen DeGeneres,
and maybe maybe a handful of people that were like
in the public eye. I remember when the I Forget,
it was like a magazine cover and.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
It was like I'm gay.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
It was like Ellen's face or something, and I was
just like, is this what my life is.
Speaker 4 (08:34):
Going to be?
Speaker 3 (08:34):
And I remember being terrified of just that vulnerable feeling
that was bringing inside of me, like what does it
look like in pop culture? And in the mainstream when
you're wanting to really be yourself and be an artist
and express yourself.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Yeah, and can you do that safely? I mean, Ellen
was one of the most famous comedians in the world
and she lost her job.
Speaker 4 (08:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
I think people forget that, Like that's what we grew
up with. And it's weird even you know, I don't
know you were saying, your journey with your parents has
become pretty great. Like even for my mom, she was
sort of like, oh, I remember girls you had crushes
on and boys you had crushes on, But like our
(09:19):
community was so gay. Were you just never around enough lesbians?
Like did we raise you around mostly gay men? And
you never saw yourself? And that's like the sweetest question
that your mom, who's in her late seventies can ask
you in your early forties. But it was kind of
interesting because I realized unlike our friend group now, I
(09:41):
was like, oh, yeah, you basically had like my mom's
best friend from childhood, Linda, who had like a high
and tight military buzz cut and rode a Harley or
like Ellen, I didn't see I didn't see queer girls
like us.
Speaker 4 (09:54):
You didn't see the whole spectrum. Yeah, the whole, right though.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
I didn't really see myself like necessarily anywhere.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
And then my job.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Was to be an actor, so I just played other
people all the time anyway. And that's a real mind
fuck for another day, totally. But I wonder for you,
like knowing so early rather than going, oh, something about
me is a little different, you were like, this is
the thing about me that's different, Like I'm in love
with her. How was the experience in terms of figuring
(10:29):
out how to talk about that? Because you were also
raised in la by really artistic parents, I think we
were much luckier than kids who had to figure this
out in small town Iowa. But even with a supportive family,
you're talking about how you felt so much pressure to hide.
Do you think that was just that inherent societal behavior
(10:53):
that you saw that made you feel like you wouldn't
be so safe?
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Totally?
Speaker 3 (10:57):
I mean, I think it's weird to look back at
how loud society is and the narratives that society feeds you,
and you know, like I said, even going back to
like children's books and even going back to going to
school and not seeing you know, two moms picking up
a kid, or like just presentation as a whole, whether
(11:20):
you grow up in La or Iowa, obviously they're.
Speaker 4 (11:24):
Very different experiences.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
The fact is is most cultures.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
Are not accepting of queer and way and religions and
the list goes on, and so that we all have
something in common where you're having to navigate wanting to
be your authentic self, and you deserve to be your
authentic self, and it's like, how do I do that where,
(11:49):
especially when you're a kid and you have to live
at home or you are not able to find a
safe space as your a and survival because you need
a roof over your head and you're just trying to
get through. So then you can eventually find your people
and then hopefully in your twenties and thirties. But obviously
my goal in creating art and books and directing.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
Is for people to not have.
Speaker 4 (12:15):
To wait for their twenties or thirties or forties.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
Yes, their authentic selves and know that there's so many
people out there, even if you're not surrounded by them
specifically at your school, you know, for your community, and
so that's really important to me.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
Yeah, I think it's so it is so crucial because
to your point, like, no kid is going to read
the animated book about the two gay penguin dads and
be like, Oh, this book made me gay. But a
little gay kid will read that book and go, oh,
that's the family I'm going to have someday. And that's
the difference, Like when you talk about inclusion or representation,
(12:55):
and we do deserve more of that. Maybe it wouldn't
take us so long to figure things out, not just
as individuals, but I think as a society, if everyone
could just see themselves somewhere and that wasn't for some
reason threatening to people who've literally always had every piece
(13:19):
of media be about them.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
Yeah, you know, it's so weird. Our existence is.
Speaker 3 (13:24):
Not taking anything away from other people's existence, and they
really fascinating that that's become a narrative.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Yeah, we'll be back in just a minute after a
few words from our favorite sponsors. I remember when Girls
Like Girls came out. I remember being like girl, I
was like, this is so good, and thinking about you
(13:54):
being twenty four, having come from the Disney Channel. I mean,
it's success, sure, but it's also pressure to be that
sort of perfect kid. What was it like like the
night before the song was going to hit, were you excited,
were you scared? Did you like go to sleep early?
(14:16):
Did you sleep at all? Like, I'm so curious how
you felt before it was out in the world.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
Well it was well to back back up, my Disney
experience is very different from other people because my Disney experience,
I had a short pixie cut, I looked like a homosexual,
and I was on Wizards for a short period and
I fatically looked gay.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
So I had a.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
Very different experience from other people who like grew up
on Disney Fair Fair Fair. But the night before girls
like girls. It was a really interesting experience, uh, because
I really struggled finding an outlet to support them music
video and premiere and at the time, like it was
(15:03):
always about who's going to premiere the music video?
Speaker 4 (15:05):
You know, who's going to premiere on YouTube? Is it Nylon?
Is it?
Speaker 3 (15:08):
This?
Speaker 4 (15:08):
Is it that?
Speaker 2 (15:09):
And nobody raised theirs And I.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
Had just gone through weeks of just rejection and people
being like, this is you know, the classic word which
I absolutely hate in referencing lesbian's the word rescue, like,
you know.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
This is too this is too risque, this.
Speaker 3 (15:28):
Is We're not you know, comfortable with this, And so
the same person who rose their hand up was AOL.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
Shut up.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
I didn't even know AOL was around still, so it
was like hey, So my team was like hey, so.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
We got a premiere and it's AOL was like.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
Al still exist about I was like al dot com
and they were like.
Speaker 4 (15:59):
Yes, no.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
I was like, well iconic great, so funny enough.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
They premiered the music video and the night before I
was really scared. I was really nervous, and I didn't
put myself in the music video just as like, because
I just wasn't ready to like fully put myself out there.
I was just kind of putting myself out there with
the song, and I was really nervous, honestly. And at
(16:25):
that time, I had like nine thousand subscribers on YouTube
and it was just kind of my last hurrah and
I put it out and yeah, it turned into something
I never thought it would.
Speaker 4 (16:40):
Honestly.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
I was so terrified.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
Was so terrified, especially because I wasn't feeling the support
from you my industry, and I think that that's kind
of like a through line.
Speaker 4 (16:52):
Obviously I've had very supportive people.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
I've had other yesses, but most of my experience in
my career, everything that I've created, it's made people feel
uncomfortable or it hasn't been done before, or they're not sure,
and like that has just been like my life, my
journey as a musician, and so I've rarely become comfortable
(17:17):
with that response because that's been my journey from day one.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
How do you think you learned to settle into that though?
Like when the response, even in success, is laden with
so much rejection, how do you learn to navigate that?
Like what do you trust in yourself to push through
until the actual yes comes?
Speaker 3 (17:44):
Well? I mean that's really layered into the movie experience
that I had, where basically, like I did the music
video in twenty fifteen, the reaction obviously went viral and
was really wonderful, and then I was like, Okay, maybe
I can you know, direct a movie and tell the story.
And that started a ten year journey of nos and
(18:09):
there were so many heartbreaks and I battled with my
mental health a lot because I felt, I think when
you get so many no's, yeah, you're feeling crazy and
you're feeling very alone on this island and you're like
am I crazy?
Speaker 4 (18:26):
Like am I seeing something?
Speaker 3 (18:29):
Like you're trying to be smart, like Okay, if everyone's
saying no, like what am I missing here?
Speaker 4 (18:35):
You know?
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Is it me?
Speaker 4 (18:36):
Or is it just I haven't found the right yes,
And so.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
You start to go a little nuts.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
And so my journey trying to get this movie made
did make me a little nut. So because I think,
to answer your question, the thing that grounded me and
propelled me were the fans. Where if I can't do this,
then no one else is going to be able to
do this, So I have to do this, and I
(19:02):
that was like literally my anger, Like every time I
wanted to give up, every time I had to restart
the process and find different producers and you know, rethink everything.
I had to be like if I give up, then
we don't get this, yeah, and period. And so that
was kind of you know, my fans were without them knowing,
(19:25):
they were the motivation because I've really I'm not a
religious person, but spiritually I've felt that my purpose in
life has been to get this story made and put
on the big screens. Like I've really truly believed that
that has been that, Like, I'm going to do more,
but that is like number one, the most important thing
(19:48):
for me to do.
Speaker 5 (19:50):
Yeah, well, what does that feel like knowing this is
happening because you know, for our friends at home, if
they don't know the full journey, you expanded from the song,
like from this core idea, you expanded girls like girls
into casual brag on your behalf.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
Here a New York Times bestselling novel.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
And you know, I'm just like she did it.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
And that is such a huge feat. And we are
in a moment where in our world, you know, our
creative world, our industry, people want existing IP, they want
an adaptation. So was writing the novel partially a stepping
stone to get to making the film? Or did you
(20:40):
figure like, if I write the novel, then it's IP,
and then also I essentially just get to adapt my
own novel into my movie.
Speaker 4 (20:48):
The novel play was my hail Mary.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
It was the movie was not getting made, it was
not going anywhere, and I was like, you know, I've
had to make so many sacrifices just even developing the
screenplay and the idea. Yeah, it's like, you know what,
I'm just going to write my twenty million dollar version
of the story, and if the movie never gets made,
(21:16):
at least this book will exist in people's libraries or yeah, kids,
will have access to.
Speaker 4 (21:22):
The audiobook and like that was like my Hail Mary.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
Of like, at least this will exist.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
And maybe if it is successful, that will help propel
the conversation forward to making the movie. Because I was saying,
you know, you know, Taylor Jenkins read all these incredible
writers getting.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
There, like you said, like Hollywood loves an ip. So
it's like, well, I'm gonna I'm just gonna.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
Pivot again and try this and see if this works.
And if it doesn't, at least I've completed my mission,
which is to tell a hopeful queer story and you know,
sharing my most authentic self through that. And so I
released the book in twenty twenty three and it became
(22:09):
a New York Times bestseller and it led to my
green light at the end of that year.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
It's so good, never give up.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
Never if the door is not opening, you pivot and
you build in the window.
Speaker 4 (22:26):
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, So that's kind of what the book was.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
It's also not lost on me that as an artist,
like the amount of rejection we deal with in general,
and by the way, like that's being lucky enough to
be artists to pay our bills making art, Like what
that's already insane.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
Which is already so hard.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
It's already so hard, and I think about you know,
it's like people get to know you and they go like, oh,
you're a little neurotic, or like, wow, you really are
mean to yourself.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
You're like, do you see what I'm all?
Speaker 1 (23:00):
My existence is in the world, like I always say,
and maybe this is just to get ahead of the
hospital that is the internet. But I'm like, oh, nobody's
meaner to me than me, right, Like, you don't have
to try so hard.
Speaker 4 (23:11):
Yeah, we're so hard on ourselves.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
I already got it. I got that on lock. To
do what you've done requires so much steadfastness, such a
willingness to continue through doubt, through the things that are
so hard. So what were some of the things you
were doing to bring yourself joy? I mean casual? You
(23:37):
obviously fell madly in love with the right person, so
like that's a gorgeous bonus of the last ten year journey.
Speaker 4 (23:44):
But like, yeah, were you were you?
Speaker 1 (23:46):
Like, Okay, if I do it date night a week
with her, that'll keep my head on straight. Where you like,
I gotta I gotta go outside and get the sun
on my face. Within ten minutes of waking up. Are
you like a walker? What's your thing to like yourself
in joy while you're working so hard at something.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
I love nature, so I think, you know, my mom
always says change is as good as a rest, So
even if you can't just recline, just changing your environment
as possible, and so that very much resonates with me.
So like going for walks, feeling the sun on my face.
There were periods of time trying to get this movie
(24:26):
made where I had so much anxiety.
Speaker 4 (24:28):
I was so depressed.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
And you know, going to the ocean if you have
access to water, or even if you don't have access
to water, like taking a bath. I never was a
bath person, but I became a bath person during the
process of trying to get this film made.
Speaker 4 (24:45):
And so those are like really nice resets.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
And you know, obviously i've met back in twenty eighteen,
I was three years into that process, you know. Yeah,
so I also it's hard because it's like, Okay, I
want to direct a movie and make a movie, but
how do you even do that?
Speaker 4 (25:02):
And so you're trying to just keep your trying to continue.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
To move forward.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
And so in twenty eighteen, I released my first album,
and I went on tour and I just tried to
like keep myself out there while I was coming with
you know, legal stuff and figuring out how who was
going to pay for it, how who was going to
like support this film and so yeah, it's just a
lot of juggling. But for me, it's just you know,
(25:27):
the sun on my face about journaling is huge for
my mental health and therapy.
Speaker 4 (25:34):
My therapist got me through it.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
You and me both sister, Like what I would do
without my therapist? I do not know.
Speaker 4 (25:43):
Yeah, what you know.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
Obviously it's a big journey and people only see a
portion of it. Like I love I referenced it when
you first jumped on the zoom, but it's like all
the fans started calling you lesbian Jesus. I know we
loved that. I know you've said you loved it, Like,
what were some of those joyful moments along the way,
(26:07):
like you said that kept you going? And can you
give us the backstory on the nickname for the folks
who are just learning it today?
Speaker 3 (26:14):
Yes, well, I was on we I was on a
tour in twenty eighteen and we called it twenty eighteen.
Speaker 4 (26:21):
And at one of my shows. I forget what city.
Speaker 3 (26:25):
A fan had called me lesbian Jesus, and I had
thought that was like, you know, a phrase that people
call one another or like like.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
No cap or like you know six seven, like you know.
I just was like, you're like, oh, it's in the lexicon.
Speaker 3 (26:40):
And I had finished my show and I'd gone online,
and as the tour was progressing, I realized they were
just calling me lesbian Jesus. So I don't know who
the fan is that created it, but congrats to them
because it has just picked up and it's something that
my fans love to call me. And I'm very honored
(27:00):
because I'm very much a lesbian and you know, I've
always been. When I was younger, I was so afraid
of the word lesbian. There was such a negative connotation
to it through just what people told me.
Speaker 4 (27:15):
And taught me.
Speaker 3 (27:17):
And so it's so awesome to get to like have
a nickname that celebrates joy and like positivity as a lesbian.
And so that's been a really cool like reclaiming of
the word totally. But yeah, I mean what's got me
through is just like, you know, being able to still
release music. And I think as I get older in
(27:38):
the industry. You realize, like being a creative, just being
able to stay in the game is success because to
be able to keep a roof over your head to
create art and express yourself is the challenge. And so
to be able to be in this for you know,
over fifteen fifteen years, it's you know, I'm just really
(28:03):
happy that I exist and I'm here to finally see
this movie go.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
Into theaters totally like.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
I've in like absolute shock that we did it and
that it's here and that I'm doing a podcast with
you and talking about this process. It's so surreal to
be on the precipice of the other side.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
Yes, well, and to have a movie in the can
after ten years of trying to get it.
Speaker 3 (28:31):
Made, which nobody understands how hard a movie is. Like
now I'll like watch a bad movie and I'll be like,
congrats to everyone involved, but you're like, wow, guys, you
did something, Like so it's a miracle. It's a miracle.
Every single film that you see that exists out there
is a miracle, and a lot of people worked really
(28:51):
hard to have it exist.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
Yeah, I really feel that. And now a word from
our wonderful sponsors, do you think that creative work in
general feels different to you now, like it, it feels
(29:14):
more exciting, more liberated, like where are you as you
were in this precipice moment as a creator?
Speaker 3 (29:22):
I think being able to direct this film and really
find my home as a creative has been really centering
for me and gratifying because I've always written music, you know,
I did musical theater growing up. I've always on like
a little bit of everything, and to really go, oh
(29:44):
my gosh, I've always been a director.
Speaker 4 (29:46):
I've always been a storyteller.
Speaker 3 (29:47):
Like this, this is what I'm good at. I'm good
at building worlds and being a part of that the
decision making every step of the way. That for myself
has been so gratifying and like has been.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
Worth the absolute treacherous.
Speaker 4 (30:08):
Mountains that I went through to get the film to.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
Exist, And that feels very freeing for me because music
I love, but there was only so much I could do,
and specifically, like you know, I found my fans through
music videos and directing my music videos. But then my
music videos I didn't have financing for anymore, and so
(30:31):
then I couldn't make music videos, and then I couldn't
do the things that I love to do anymore. Yeah,
and so that was really hard for me. And I
think when things get so hard for so long, it
kind of can suck the fun out.
Speaker 4 (30:47):
And so it's been.
Speaker 3 (30:48):
Really beautiful to direct this film and be able to
kind of almost come back to music and writing this
Inspired By album after the fact I finished the film
when in the studio, wrote this inspired By album through
the lens of Cooley and Sonya are protagonists, and I
(31:09):
got to have fun and I was like, oh my gosh.
Speaker 4 (31:13):
I love this feeling again.
Speaker 3 (31:15):
And so it was so fun that I kind of
kind of lost the flame with music, went into the
directing world, wrote, you know, wrote and directed the movie,
and then kind of went back to music and I
got to find that joy again. And I think in anything,
people find joy when they are supported, like you're when
(31:38):
you don't feel supported, when you don't have a community
or a safe space to be yourself and to do
the things that you want to do. It affects your
mental health, It just does. And that was a big
example of how that can truly affect your like spirit
and drive. So I've never been more proud of this
(31:59):
album and album and it's really nice to feel like
I'm like returning.
Speaker 5 (32:05):
I'm the artemist returning home to you've done it the Phoenix.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
Yes, I love it.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
Oh my god, did you just sob for a week
straight like I did? I couldn't get my together.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
I loved watching It's so cool. I love space.
Speaker 4 (32:22):
I do like space movies and stuff, but I just
love space.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
No, it's truly my favorite thing.
Speaker 4 (32:28):
Like it's so fun.
Speaker 3 (32:29):
I would personally never go, but I'm happy for people
who get to go and experience it.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
Yeah, I I might.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
A lot too. I might next week.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
But here's the thing I don't want to do. I
mean a I couldn't, but be like, I don't want
to do like oligarchy space tourism. That's not my vibe.
Speaker 4 (32:55):
Okay, Like I don't want to go up.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
In the penis pod and come down and I'm not interested.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
You're trying to like I would do.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
The week. I would be like, if there's something I
could do and assist Malsa.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
Like send me sure?
Speaker 4 (33:13):
Wow?
Speaker 2 (33:13):
What could I do? Literally?
Speaker 1 (33:15):
Nothing? But I would if they asked, you know, like
I know you need like a poetic journalist to go
to space with you.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
Okay, I'll go.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
I'll write down everything everyone says and then write something
beautiful for you, like I don't know. I love that,
but it would have to be meaningful, like to just
the tourism aspect I don't get. But I oh, man,
I mean, I just wept every day watching that coverage.
I loved it so much.
Speaker 3 (33:44):
I think it just goes back to like, no matter
what you do or what your passions are, we all
want to find something meaningful, and we all, if we're
going to invest our time and energy into something, we
want to help the world and propel the conversation and yeah,
ity forward, you know, and yeah, that's really important to recognize.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
Totally. I love it. I've never had a contributor to
a prep document for an interviewee before, but I did,
thankfully for our off camera life. I did get a
question from your beloved about your movie.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
She said she can't.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
She said she can't, she can't wait for the world
to see it. Is so proud of you and also
wants to know why there was not a character named
Becca in the film.
Speaker 4 (34:44):
She's in the other room.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
I want to go grab her.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
Like troll.
Speaker 3 (34:49):
We have this constant thing where she'll like like I'll
like test her to see if she can act, you know,
and like we'll do like a little audition skits and stuff,
and yeah, she's not an actor yet, but I love her.
Speaker 4 (35:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
Well, it's very funny for me in my home because
clearly Ash is not an actor either, but she's a performer.
Like she's a performance athlete. We are performance artists. And
when I have to prep for something, she's so genuine
and sweet and she'll be like, let me run your
lines with you, and I'm like.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
You're like thanks, but no, thanks, no, no, And now now.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
We finally will do it. And like halfway through, when
I'm really figuring out my thing, She'll be like, how
did you do that? And I'm like, you can't ask
me that in the middle of a scene, like how
I made a You're not supposed to remind me that
I'm a character. Yeah, it's like constant Shenanigan. So the
four of us clearly need to play some improv games.
Speaker 3 (35:48):
Absolutely, It's really it's really fun to get to have shared,
you know, eight out of the eleven years of this
journey with Becca and like just like going to Coachella
and performing with Gigi Perez and having our song come out.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
Like like Becca was.
Speaker 3 (36:07):
She was practicing Gigi's parts while I was practicing my
parts because we.
Speaker 2 (36:10):
Had separated, So I was like singing girls Like Girls
and she was the part, the part. Little moments like that,
they are just so joyful. Wait, how was Coachella?
Speaker 1 (36:23):
I can't believe. I almost forgot to ask about it.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
Oh, it was so fun.
Speaker 3 (36:27):
You know, I performed eight years ago, and I think
it was it was so extra meaningful because that was
the moment that I was trying to launch my you know, career,
and then you know, Gi existing in the world, was
inspired by my music and impacted by my music, and
(36:50):
so eight years later it's her moment a Coachella, and
it was so special. Uh, And I think healing for
both of us to get to sing Girls Like Girls together.
Speaker 4 (37:02):
I had never shared I've never shared the stage.
Speaker 3 (37:06):
With anyone performing Girls Like Girls, and so to get
to do that eight years later, come back also engaged.
I had met Baka like two weeks before I hail
in twenty eighteen, and.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
There was just a lot of really cool, full circle.
Speaker 4 (37:21):
Moments, and I am so.
Speaker 3 (37:23):
Grateful for Gigi and all of the artists that are
on this album. I basically just wanted to make an
album about girls and brought on artists that I love
and I think I think also too. When you create
and anytime someone like donates their time or like shows
their support and a.
Speaker 4 (37:43):
Real pay, it's so meaningful and it's so special to
be like, Wow.
Speaker 3 (37:49):
We've impacted one another, and like we're actually going to
show up for each other. And to know for them
to see like that, I've I've been here for a
long time. I've been in the game for a long time,
and I've been working up for my moment for a
very long time. And for them to recognize that girls
like girls, this film goes beyond me. It's a cultural
(38:11):
movement for our community. I felt really seen by that,
and so I'm so excited for people to hear the
rest of the album too. Now the movie's coming out
in a couple of days.
Speaker 1 (38:22):
We're gonna pause here today, friends, and then come back
for a follow up episode with the amazing Haley. See
you on the next one.
Hi, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to work in progress. Welcome
to this week's work in progress. Friends, it is June,
(00:20):
it is pride ooh, and we have some queer joy
on the show today. Our guest is none other than
Haley Kioko, one of my favorite voices, one of my
fellow Angel CITYFC lifelong supporters, and one of the coolest
artists that I know. Long before she became a defining
(00:44):
voice for queer storytelling, she was navigating incredibly early career
success as a Disney Channel star, but like so many
of us, fear of scrutiny made her shrink herself even
with all of those amazing achievements. But that changed she
turned twenty four. Hailey released a song, Girls Like Girls,
(01:04):
that centered on, celebrated and championed queer love, and instead
of judgment, she found an audience that accepted her and
saw themselves in her. And it marked a point where
her identity shifted from something private and complicated to something
public and powerful. And what has followed is an incredibly
(01:26):
beautiful and rare kind of creative evolution. The same story
from the song has grown into a number one New
York Times bestselling novel and now a feature film that
Haley co wrote and directed. What many people don't know
is that it took ten years to get this movie
to the stage of being made. But along the way
(01:49):
she never gave up. She went from feeling pressure to
tone herself down to being absolutely embraced. And I know
my younger self feels healed watching her do that. I
imagine many of yours do too. Let's dive into this
whole creative path with our friend, Hailey Kyoko. I'm so
(02:19):
excited and I'm so happy you're here too. I think
about all of the cool overlap you and I are
lucky enough to have as creatives, as sports fans, as Angelino's,
like all the things.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
We do have a lot of comments.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Yeah, and I mean and you even more so than me.
I mean, like, I you know, I've been in the
public sphere since I don't know, a week after my
twenty first birthday. You've been in it since you were
a kid. But I'm actually really curious even before, like
from this vantage point in your life, when you have
(02:57):
so beautifully talked about how all the things you didn't
know were going to line up have and you know,
you look back at your younger self, and you wish
she knew these things. I wonder do you think if
you had this sort of like freaky Friday experience and
you could hang out with your eight year old self today,
(03:18):
would you see yourself in her? Do you think she
would see herself in you?
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Totally?
Speaker 3 (03:24):
And that's I mean, love for you Friday, But that
would be so.
Speaker 4 (03:28):
Odd starting at my younger self.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
But I definitely feel like, like most people, my younger
self motivates and drives me of like what I want
in my life and what I've always dreamed of having.
Speaker 4 (03:43):
And so I definitely feel like if young.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
Haley could know what I was up to, she would
be like, oh my gosh, I'm going to be so cool.
Speaker 4 (03:54):
When I grow up.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
And I just had no foresight whatsoever.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
I felt very hopeless about being able to truly like
thrive as myself when I was so young. So I
feel like it would be such a cool thing for
her to see.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
That's really cool. Where do you feel like your understanding
you know, not just as a kid who wanted to
be creative or make art or who was curious about
the world, but as a queer kid. Do you have
the ability to look back at any moments in your
childhood and go.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Oh, there it was.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
That's when I knew, or maybe that's when I should
have known, Like there were signs.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Oh yeah, I was very I was.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
It's weird because I didn't have the tools or the language,
but I knew who I was from I think my
first grade teacher I was like in love with and
I was six or something whatever, six five or six,
but I but.
Speaker 4 (05:01):
I didn't know.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
I just knew that how I felt was wrong from
what society told me, and that no one else felt
that way.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
So that was like, I think that's why my You.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
Know, everyone has their own journey with their sexuality and
their queerness, and mine I carried throughout my adolescence and
was definitely something that I was having to navigate. And
my parents are super supportive now, But it wasn't like
we were having open conversations or reading books with two
(05:37):
moms or like having hey, like life could look like
this or it could look like this, And so I
really was on my own navigating those feelings and knowing
that I was a lesbian and I was only interested
in girls, and it really kind of dominated my experience
(05:58):
through all school.
Speaker 4 (06:00):
You know, yeah, school, that's so interesting.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
It's like trying to sort of figure it out, even
for myself in adulthood in terms of what I knew
and maybe what I wasn't picking up on as a kid.
It's really hilarious to me, Like the levity comes in,
Like we were just watching clips of all the home
movies with Ash and my family and.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
She's like, look at this little lesbian, Like you have always.
Speaker 5 (06:30):
Been like a halder now yeah, and it's just like
we were hackling.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
And it's so interesting to me because I've also really
had to look back at the lens of queerness in
terms of, of course the portion of it that is
your sexual identity, but queerness is like a total identity also,
you know, the kinds of friendships you build, the way
(06:57):
you see the world, the way you're you are inherently
more solutions oriented, creative, inclusive, like and I don't know,
there's all these moments now that I look at and
I go like, oh, were we focusing on my obvious
neurodivergence or was all my addity oddity like difference put
(07:19):
into Oh, her brain's wired differently. I'm like, yeah, and
I'm also queerish you.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
All these epiphanies like oh my gosh, yeah, yeah, I mean,
I mean, I feel like so many people can resonate
with your experience, and so many people can probably resonate
with mine. And I was very overt, like my friends
called me Mowgli and I want to wear a shirt
and I refuse to wear a dress, and I was
just very.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Gay.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
You were very Bermuda shorts.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Yes, yeah, so.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
Yeah, I don't have like oh, but I think my
experience was more like I was experiencing it in real time, and.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
I was like, how do I hide myself? How do
I make myself smaller?
Speaker 3 (08:08):
How do I fit myself in this box? And if
I want to be successful in this industry? You know,
when I was young, there was like Ellen, Ellen DeGeneres,
and maybe maybe a handful of people that were like
in the public eye. I remember when the I Forget,
it was like a magazine cover and.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
It was like I'm gay.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
It was like Ellen's face or something, and I was
just like, is this what my life is.
Speaker 4 (08:34):
Going to be?
Speaker 3 (08:34):
And I remember being terrified of just that vulnerable feeling
that was bringing inside of me, like what does it
look like in pop culture? And in the mainstream when
you're wanting to really be yourself and be an artist
and express yourself.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Yeah, and can you do that safely? I mean, Ellen
was one of the most famous comedians in the world
and she lost her job.
Speaker 4 (08:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
I think people forget that, Like that's what we grew
up with. And it's weird even you know, I don't
know you were saying, your journey with your parents has
become pretty great. Like even for my mom, she was
sort of like, oh, I remember girls you had crushes
on and boys you had crushes on, But like our
(09:19):
community was so gay. Were you just never around enough lesbians?
Like did we raise you around mostly gay men? And
you never saw yourself? And that's like the sweetest question
that your mom, who's in her late seventies can ask
you in your early forties. But it was kind of
interesting because I realized unlike our friend group now, I
(09:41):
was like, oh, yeah, you basically had like my mom's
best friend from childhood, Linda, who had like a high
and tight military buzz cut and rode a Harley or
like Ellen, I didn't see I didn't see queer girls
like us.
Speaker 4 (09:54):
You didn't see the whole spectrum. Yeah, the whole, right though.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
I didn't really see myself like necessarily anywhere.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
And then my job.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Was to be an actor, so I just played other
people all the time anyway. And that's a real mind
fuck for another day, totally. But I wonder for you,
like knowing so early rather than going, oh, something about
me is a little different, you were like, this is
the thing about me that's different, Like I'm in love
with her. How was the experience in terms of figuring
(10:29):
out how to talk about that? Because you were also
raised in la by really artistic parents, I think we
were much luckier than kids who had to figure this
out in small town Iowa. But even with a supportive family,
you're talking about how you felt so much pressure to hide.
Do you think that was just that inherent societal behavior
(10:53):
that you saw that made you feel like you wouldn't
be so safe?
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Totally?
Speaker 3 (10:57):
I mean, I think it's weird to look back at
how loud society is and the narratives that society feeds you,
and you know, like I said, even going back to
like children's books and even going back to going to
school and not seeing you know, two moms picking up
a kid, or like just presentation as a whole, whether
(11:20):
you grow up in La or Iowa, obviously they're.
Speaker 4 (11:24):
Very different experiences.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
The fact is is most cultures.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
Are not accepting of queer and way and religions and
the list goes on, and so that we all have
something in common where you're having to navigate wanting to
be your authentic self, and you deserve to be your
authentic self, and it's like, how do I do that where,
(11:49):
especially when you're a kid and you have to live
at home or you are not able to find a
safe space as your a and survival because you need
a roof over your head and you're just trying to
get through. So then you can eventually find your people
and then hopefully in your twenties and thirties. But obviously
my goal in creating art and books and directing.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
Is for people to not have.
Speaker 4 (12:15):
To wait for their twenties or thirties or forties.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
Yes, their authentic selves and know that there's so many
people out there, even if you're not surrounded by them
specifically at your school, you know, for your community, and
so that's really important to me.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
Yeah, I think it's so it is so crucial because
to your point, like, no kid is going to read
the animated book about the two gay penguin dads and
be like, Oh, this book made me gay. But a
little gay kid will read that book and go, oh,
that's the family I'm going to have someday. And that's
the difference, Like when you talk about inclusion or representation,
(12:55):
and we do deserve more of that. Maybe it wouldn't
take us so long to figure things out, not just
as individuals, but I think as a society, if everyone
could just see themselves somewhere and that wasn't for some
reason threatening to people who've literally always had every piece
(13:19):
of media be about them.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
Yeah, you know, it's so weird. Our existence is.
Speaker 3 (13:24):
Not taking anything away from other people's existence, and they
really fascinating that that's become a narrative.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Yeah, we'll be back in just a minute after a
few words from our favorite sponsors. I remember when Girls
Like Girls came out. I remember being like girl, I
was like, this is so good, and thinking about you
(13:54):
being twenty four, having come from the Disney Channel. I mean,
it's success, sure, but it's also pressure to be that
sort of perfect kid. What was it like like the
night before the song was going to hit, were you excited,
were you scared? Did you like go to sleep early?
(14:16):
Did you sleep at all? Like, I'm so curious how
you felt before it was out in the world.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
Well it was well to back back up, my Disney
experience is very different from other people because my Disney experience,
I had a short pixie cut, I looked like a homosexual,
and I was on Wizards for a short period and
I fatically looked gay.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
So I had a.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
Very different experience from other people who like grew up
on Disney Fair Fair Fair. But the night before girls
like girls. It was a really interesting experience, uh, because
I really struggled finding an outlet to support them music
video and premiere and at the time, like it was
(15:03):
always about who's going to premiere the music video?
Speaker 4 (15:05):
You know, who's going to premiere on YouTube? Is it Nylon?
Is it?
Speaker 3 (15:08):
This?
Speaker 4 (15:08):
Is it that?
Speaker 2 (15:09):
And nobody raised theirs And I.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
Had just gone through weeks of just rejection and people
being like, this is you know, the classic word which
I absolutely hate in referencing lesbian's the word rescue, like,
you know.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
This is too this is too risque, this.
Speaker 3 (15:28):
Is We're not you know, comfortable with this, And so
the same person who rose their hand up was AOL.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
Shut up.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
I didn't even know AOL was around still, so it
was like hey, So my team was like hey, so.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
We got a premiere and it's AOL was like.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
Al still exist about I was like al dot com
and they were like.
Speaker 4 (15:59):
Yes, no.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
I was like, well iconic great, so funny enough.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
They premiered the music video and the night before I
was really scared. I was really nervous, and I didn't
put myself in the music video just as like, because
I just wasn't ready to like fully put myself out there.
I was just kind of putting myself out there with
the song, and I was really nervous, honestly. And at
(16:25):
that time, I had like nine thousand subscribers on YouTube
and it was just kind of my last hurrah and
I put it out and yeah, it turned into something
I never thought it would.
Speaker 4 (16:40):
Honestly.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
I was so terrified.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
Was so terrified, especially because I wasn't feeling the support
from you my industry, and I think that that's kind
of like a through line.
Speaker 4 (16:52):
Obviously I've had very supportive people.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
I've had other yesses, but most of my experience in
my career, everything that I've created, it's made people feel
uncomfortable or it hasn't been done before, or they're not sure,
and like that has just been like my life, my
journey as a musician, and so I've rarely become comfortable
(17:17):
with that response because that's been my journey from day one.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
How do you think you learned to settle into that though?
Like when the response, even in success, is laden with
so much rejection, how do you learn to navigate that?
Like what do you trust in yourself to push through
until the actual yes comes?
Speaker 3 (17:44):
Well? I mean that's really layered into the movie experience
that I had, where basically, like I did the music
video in twenty fifteen, the reaction obviously went viral and
was really wonderful, and then I was like, Okay, maybe
I can you know, direct a movie and tell the story.
And that started a ten year journey of nos and
(18:09):
there were so many heartbreaks and I battled with my
mental health a lot because I felt, I think when
you get so many no's, yeah, you're feeling crazy and
you're feeling very alone on this island and you're like
am I crazy?
Speaker 4 (18:26):
Like am I seeing something?
Speaker 3 (18:29):
Like you're trying to be smart, like Okay, if everyone's
saying no, like what am I missing here?
Speaker 4 (18:35):
You know?
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Is it me?
Speaker 4 (18:36):
Or is it just I haven't found the right yes,
And so.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
You start to go a little nuts.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
And so my journey trying to get this movie made
did make me a little nut. So because I think,
to answer your question, the thing that grounded me and
propelled me were the fans. Where if I can't do this,
then no one else is going to be able to
do this, So I have to do this, and I
(19:02):
that was like literally my anger, Like every time I
wanted to give up, every time I had to restart
the process and find different producers and you know, rethink everything.
I had to be like if I give up, then
we don't get this, yeah, and period. And so that
was kind of you know, my fans were without them knowing,
(19:25):
they were the motivation because I've really I'm not a
religious person, but spiritually I've felt that my purpose in
life has been to get this story made and put
on the big screens. Like I've really truly believed that
that has been that, Like, I'm going to do more,
but that is like number one, the most important thing
(19:48):
for me to do.
Speaker 5 (19:50):
Yeah, well, what does that feel like knowing this is
happening because you know, for our friends at home, if
they don't know the full journey, you expanded from the song,
like from this core idea, you expanded girls like girls
into casual brag on your behalf.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
Here a New York Times bestselling novel.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
And you know, I'm just like she did it.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
And that is such a huge feat. And we are
in a moment where in our world, you know, our
creative world, our industry, people want existing IP, they want
an adaptation. So was writing the novel partially a stepping
stone to get to making the film? Or did you
(20:40):
figure like, if I write the novel, then it's IP,
and then also I essentially just get to adapt my
own novel into my movie.
Speaker 4 (20:48):
The novel play was my hail Mary.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
It was the movie was not getting made, it was
not going anywhere, and I was like, you know, I've
had to make so many sacrifices just even developing the
screenplay and the idea. Yeah, it's like, you know what,
I'm just going to write my twenty million dollar version
of the story, and if the movie never gets made,
(21:16):
at least this book will exist in people's libraries or yeah, kids,
will have access to.
Speaker 4 (21:22):
The audiobook and like that was like my Hail Mary.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
Of like, at least this will exist.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
And maybe if it is successful, that will help propel
the conversation forward to making the movie. Because I was saying,
you know, you know, Taylor Jenkins read all these incredible
writers getting.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
There, like you said, like Hollywood loves an ip. So
it's like, well, I'm gonna I'm just gonna.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
Pivot again and try this and see if this works.
And if it doesn't, at least I've completed my mission,
which is to tell a hopeful queer story and you know,
sharing my most authentic self through that. And so I
released the book in twenty twenty three and it became
(22:09):
a New York Times bestseller and it led to my
green light at the end of that year.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
It's so good, never give up.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
Never if the door is not opening, you pivot and
you build in the window.
Speaker 4 (22:26):
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, So that's kind of what the book was.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
It's also not lost on me that as an artist,
like the amount of rejection we deal with in general,
and by the way, like that's being lucky enough to
be artists to pay our bills making art, Like what
that's already insane.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
Which is already so hard.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
It's already so hard, and I think about you know,
it's like people get to know you and they go like, oh,
you're a little neurotic, or like, wow, you really are
mean to yourself.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
You're like, do you see what I'm all?
Speaker 1 (23:00):
My existence is in the world, like I always say,
and maybe this is just to get ahead of the
hospital that is the internet. But I'm like, oh, nobody's
meaner to me than me, right, Like, you don't have
to try so hard.
Speaker 4 (23:11):
Yeah, we're so hard on ourselves.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
I already got it. I got that on lock. To
do what you've done requires so much steadfastness, such a
willingness to continue through doubt, through the things that are
so hard. So what were some of the things you
were doing to bring yourself joy? I mean casual? You
(23:37):
obviously fell madly in love with the right person, so
like that's a gorgeous bonus of the last ten year journey.
Speaker 4 (23:44):
But like, yeah, were you were you?
Speaker 1 (23:46):
Like, Okay, if I do it date night a week
with her, that'll keep my head on straight. Where you like,
I gotta I gotta go outside and get the sun
on my face. Within ten minutes of waking up. Are
you like a walker? What's your thing to like yourself
in joy while you're working so hard at something.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
I love nature, so I think, you know, my mom
always says change is as good as a rest, So
even if you can't just recline, just changing your environment
as possible, and so that very much resonates with me.
So like going for walks, feeling the sun on my face.
There were periods of time trying to get this movie
(24:26):
made where I had so much anxiety.
Speaker 4 (24:28):
I was so depressed.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
And you know, going to the ocean if you have
access to water, or even if you don't have access
to water, like taking a bath. I never was a
bath person, but I became a bath person during the
process of trying to get this film made.
Speaker 4 (24:45):
And so those are like really nice resets.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
And you know, obviously i've met back in twenty eighteen,
I was three years into that process, you know. Yeah,
so I also it's hard because it's like, Okay, I
want to direct a movie and make a movie, but
how do you even do that?
Speaker 4 (25:02):
And so you're trying to just keep your trying to continue.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
To move forward.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
And so in twenty eighteen, I released my first album,
and I went on tour and I just tried to
like keep myself out there while I was coming with
you know, legal stuff and figuring out how who was
going to pay for it, how who was going to
like support this film and so yeah, it's just a
lot of juggling. But for me, it's just you know,
(25:27):
the sun on my face about journaling is huge for
my mental health and therapy.
Speaker 4 (25:34):
My therapist got me through it.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
You and me both sister, Like what I would do
without my therapist? I do not know.
Speaker 4 (25:43):
Yeah, what you know.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
Obviously it's a big journey and people only see a
portion of it. Like I love I referenced it when
you first jumped on the zoom, but it's like all
the fans started calling you lesbian Jesus. I know we
loved that. I know you've said you loved it, Like,
what were some of those joyful moments along the way,
(26:07):
like you said that kept you going? And can you
give us the backstory on the nickname for the folks
who are just learning it today?
Speaker 3 (26:14):
Yes, well, I was on we I was on a
tour in twenty eighteen and we called it twenty eighteen.
Speaker 4 (26:21):
And at one of my shows. I forget what city.
Speaker 3 (26:25):
A fan had called me lesbian Jesus, and I had
thought that was like, you know, a phrase that people
call one another or like like.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
No cap or like you know six seven, like you know.
I just was like, you're like, oh, it's in the lexicon.
Speaker 3 (26:40):
And I had finished my show and I'd gone online,
and as the tour was progressing, I realized they were
just calling me lesbian Jesus. So I don't know who
the fan is that created it, but congrats to them
because it has just picked up and it's something that
my fans love to call me. And I'm very honored
(27:00):
because I'm very much a lesbian and you know, I've
always been. When I was younger, I was so afraid
of the word lesbian. There was such a negative connotation
to it through just what people told me.
Speaker 4 (27:15):
And taught me.
Speaker 3 (27:17):
And so it's so awesome to get to like have
a nickname that celebrates joy and like positivity as a lesbian.
And so that's been a really cool like reclaiming of
the word totally. But yeah, I mean what's got me
through is just like, you know, being able to still
release music. And I think as I get older in
(27:38):
the industry. You realize, like being a creative, just being
able to stay in the game is success because to
be able to keep a roof over your head to
create art and express yourself is the challenge. And so
to be able to be in this for you know,
over fifteen fifteen years, it's you know, I'm just really
(28:03):
happy that I exist and I'm here to finally see
this movie go.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
Into theaters totally like.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
I've in like absolute shock that we did it and
that it's here and that I'm doing a podcast with
you and talking about this process. It's so surreal to
be on the precipice of the other side.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
Yes, well, and to have a movie in the can
after ten years of trying to get it.
Speaker 3 (28:31):
Made, which nobody understands how hard a movie is. Like
now I'll like watch a bad movie and I'll be like,
congrats to everyone involved, but you're like, wow, guys, you
did something, Like so it's a miracle. It's a miracle.
Every single film that you see that exists out there
is a miracle, and a lot of people worked really
(28:51):
hard to have it exist.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
Yeah, I really feel that. And now a word from
our wonderful sponsors, do you think that creative work in
general feels different to you now, like it, it feels
(29:14):
more exciting, more liberated, like where are you as you
were in this precipice moment as a creator?
Speaker 3 (29:22):
I think being able to direct this film and really
find my home as a creative has been really centering
for me and gratifying because I've always written music, you know,
I did musical theater growing up. I've always on like
a little bit of everything, and to really go, oh
(29:44):
my gosh, I've always been a director.
Speaker 4 (29:46):
I've always been a storyteller.
Speaker 3 (29:47):
Like this, this is what I'm good at. I'm good
at building worlds and being a part of that the
decision making every step of the way. That for myself
has been so gratifying and like has been.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
Worth the absolute treacherous.
Speaker 4 (30:08):
Mountains that I went through to get the film to.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
Exist, And that feels very freeing for me because music
I love, but there was only so much I could do,
and specifically, like you know, I found my fans through
music videos and directing my music videos. But then my
music videos I didn't have financing for anymore, and so
(30:31):
then I couldn't make music videos, and then I couldn't
do the things that I love to do anymore. Yeah,
and so that was really hard for me. And I
think when things get so hard for so long, it
kind of can suck the fun out.
Speaker 4 (30:47):
And so it's been.
Speaker 3 (30:48):
Really beautiful to direct this film and be able to
kind of almost come back to music and writing this
Inspired By album after the fact I finished the film
when in the studio, wrote this inspired By album through
the lens of Cooley and Sonya are protagonists, and I
(31:09):
got to have fun and I was like, oh my gosh.
Speaker 4 (31:13):
I love this feeling again.
Speaker 3 (31:15):
And so it was so fun that I kind of
kind of lost the flame with music, went into the
directing world, wrote, you know, wrote and directed the movie,
and then kind of went back to music and I
got to find that joy again. And I think in anything,
people find joy when they are supported, like you're when
(31:38):
you don't feel supported, when you don't have a community
or a safe space to be yourself and to do
the things that you want to do. It affects your
mental health, It just does. And that was a big
example of how that can truly affect your like spirit
and drive. So I've never been more proud of this
(31:59):
album and album and it's really nice to feel like
I'm like returning.
Speaker 5 (32:05):
I'm the artemist returning home to you've done it the Phoenix.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
Yes, I love it.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
Oh my god, did you just sob for a week
straight like I did? I couldn't get my together.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
I loved watching It's so cool. I love space.
Speaker 4 (32:22):
I do like space movies and stuff, but I just
love space.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
No, it's truly my favorite thing.
Speaker 4 (32:28):
Like it's so fun.
Speaker 3 (32:29):
I would personally never go, but I'm happy for people
who get to go and experience it.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
Yeah, I I might.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
A lot too. I might next week.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
But here's the thing I don't want to do. I
mean a I couldn't, but be like, I don't want
to do like oligarchy space tourism. That's not my vibe.
Speaker 4 (32:55):
Okay, Like I don't want to go up.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
In the penis pod and come down and I'm not interested.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
You're trying to like I would do.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
The week. I would be like, if there's something I
could do and assist Malsa.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
Like send me sure?
Speaker 4 (33:13):
Wow?
Speaker 2 (33:13):
What could I do? Literally?
Speaker 1 (33:15):
Nothing? But I would if they asked, you know, like
I know you need like a poetic journalist to go
to space with you.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
Okay, I'll go.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
I'll write down everything everyone says and then write something
beautiful for you, like I don't know. I love that,
but it would have to be meaningful, like to just
the tourism aspect I don't get. But I oh, man,
I mean, I just wept every day watching that coverage.
I loved it so much.
Speaker 3 (33:44):
I think it just goes back to like, no matter
what you do or what your passions are, we all
want to find something meaningful, and we all, if we're
going to invest our time and energy into something, we
want to help the world and propel the conversation and yeah,
ity forward, you know, and yeah, that's really important to recognize.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
Totally. I love it. I've never had a contributor to
a prep document for an interviewee before, but I did,
thankfully for our off camera life. I did get a
question from your beloved about your movie.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
She said she can't.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
She said she can't, she can't wait for the world
to see it. Is so proud of you and also
wants to know why there was not a character named
Becca in the film.
Speaker 4 (34:44):
She's in the other room.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
I want to go grab her.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
Like troll.
Speaker 3 (34:49):
We have this constant thing where she'll like like I'll
like test her to see if she can act, you know,
and like we'll do like a little audition skits and stuff,
and yeah, she's not an actor yet, but I love her.
Speaker 4 (35:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
Well, it's very funny for me in my home because
clearly Ash is not an actor either, but she's a performer.
Like she's a performance athlete. We are performance artists. And
when I have to prep for something, she's so genuine
and sweet and she'll be like, let me run your
lines with you, and I'm like.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
You're like thanks, but no, thanks, no, no, And now now.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
We finally will do it. And like halfway through, when
I'm really figuring out my thing, She'll be like, how
did you do that? And I'm like, you can't ask
me that in the middle of a scene, like how
I made a You're not supposed to remind me that
I'm a character. Yeah, it's like constant Shenanigan. So the
four of us clearly need to play some improv games.
Speaker 3 (35:48):
Absolutely, It's really it's really fun to get to have shared,
you know, eight out of the eleven years of this
journey with Becca and like just like going to Coachella
and performing with Gigi Perez and having our song come out.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
Like like Becca was.
Speaker 3 (36:07):
She was practicing Gigi's parts while I was practicing my
parts because we.
Speaker 2 (36:10):
Had separated, So I was like singing girls Like Girls
and she was the part, the part. Little moments like that,
they are just so joyful. Wait, how was Coachella?
Speaker 1 (36:23):
I can't believe. I almost forgot to ask about it.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
Oh, it was so fun.
Speaker 3 (36:27):
You know, I performed eight years ago, and I think
it was it was so extra meaningful because that was
the moment that I was trying to launch my you know, career,
and then you know, Gi existing in the world, was
inspired by my music and impacted by my music, and
(36:50):
so eight years later it's her moment a Coachella, and
it was so special. Uh, And I think healing for
both of us to get to sing Girls Like Girls together.
Speaker 4 (37:02):
I had never shared I've never shared the stage.
Speaker 3 (37:06):
With anyone performing Girls Like Girls, and so to get
to do that eight years later, come back also engaged.
I had met Baka like two weeks before I hail
in twenty eighteen, and.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
There was just a lot of really cool, full circle.
Speaker 4 (37:21):
Moments, and I am so.
Speaker 3 (37:23):
Grateful for Gigi and all of the artists that are
on this album. I basically just wanted to make an
album about girls and brought on artists that I love
and I think I think also too. When you create
and anytime someone like donates their time or like shows
their support and a.
Speaker 4 (37:43):
Real pay, it's so meaningful and it's so special to
be like, Wow.
Speaker 3 (37:49):
We've impacted one another, and like we're actually going to
show up for each other. And to know for them
to see like that, I've I've been here for a
long time. I've been in the game for a long time,
and I've been working up for my moment for a
very long time. And for them to recognize that girls
like girls, this film goes beyond me. It's a cultural
(38:11):
movement for our community. I felt really seen by that,
and so I'm so excited for people to hear the
rest of the album too. Now the movie's coming out
in a couple of days.
Speaker 1 (38:22):
We're gonna pause here today, friends, and then come back
for a follow up episode with the amazing Haley. See
you on the next one.
Host
Sophia Bush
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