November 25, 2025 • 48 mins
What do astrology and storytelling have in common?
Both have an amazing way of taking the seemingly disconnected events of our lives and giving them meaning and order.
On this week’s episode, I interview author, teacher and world-renowned astrologist Debra Silverman and dig into the power astrology offers to organize the experiences of our lives. Together we discover just how much our work has in common.
Whether you are curious about astrology, a devoted student, or an admitted skeptic, this conversation will help you make meaning of your life story.
I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did.
You can buy Debra’s latest book HERE!
You can join me in her applied astrology class HERE!
Host: Ally Fallon // @allyfallon // allisonfallon.com
Follow Ally on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/allyfallon/
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Pick up the paces of your life, put them back
together with the words you write, all the beauty and
peace and the magic that you'll start too fun when
you write your story.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
You got the words and said, don't you think it's
down to let them out and write them.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Down on cold It's all about.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
And write your story.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Write you write your story.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Hi, and welcome back to the Write Your Story Podcast.
I'm Ali Fallon, I'm your host, and on today's episode,
I get to share with you this really amazing, beautiful,
insightful conversation that I got to have with Deborah Silverman,
who is an author, she's a teacher, she's an astrologist,
she teaches about the tourou She's such an amazing, incredible person,
(00:50):
and I discovered as I was talking to her that
she and I actually have a lot in common. There's
so much crossover between the work that she does and
the work that I do. And you might not necessarily
think that when you look at her bio, but what
she's really helping people to do, and she's helped thousands
of people to do this is to take the pieces
of their life that maybe don't make sense to them,
(01:10):
or that seem random and disconnected and help them see
it through a lens where they can bring it all
together in one narrative arc. This is almost exactly the
work that I have been doing for the last fifteen
years of my career. I did it through publishing for
a long time, and now I'm kind of shifting that
work more toward storytelling. I mean, it's the same work
that I'm doing, but just less focused on the actually
(01:32):
getting published aspect and more focused on teaching people how
to use a narrative arc to share their stories. She
does this through the lens of astrology, and you'll be
so fascinated as you listen to her talk about how
she does this. I think you're going to really love
what she has to say, because no matter where you
are on the spectrum of believing in astrology to maybe
thinking that like it's totally hogwash, you could be anywhere
(01:55):
on that spectrum, and Deborah has something to offer to
you exactly where you are today. In fact, I told
her this in our conversation, but one of the things
that I love is how she frames her most recent
book to a reader who is skeptical about astrology. I
love it not only because this really fit for me.
I mean, I told her a little bit of my backstory.
You'll hear me say this in the conversation about how
(02:17):
I've had some ups and downs with astrology. I have,
at times, you know, really bought into the idea that
astrology is a true thing and, you know, a meaningful
way to organize our life. And there have been other
times where I have felt like there's no way that
doesn't you know, that doesn't really work, like looking at
you know when you were born, and the shape of
the stars when you were born doesn't really have a
connection to who you are and how you move through
(02:38):
the world. And I feel like I'm in a place
now that's pretty nuanced, like somewhere in the middle where
I really do see the connection between the type of
work she's doing and the type of work I'm doing.
So I'm fascinated for you to hear this conversation and
see if you can pull any insight out of her
astrological knowledge that might help you to make sense of
your story, because really, astrology is just a framework to
(03:01):
help you understand your life in the same way that
a narrative framework is a framework to help you understand
your life. So I'm going to introduce you to Deborah.
I'm so excited for you to get to hear this conversation.
Before we dive into the conversation, though, I want to
make sure that you know that this week I am
reintroducing my signature course called a book in six months.
This has been unavailable for twelve months. I have gotten
(03:23):
endless numbers of emails and dms from people asking me
to bring it back, and I honestly thought that I
was not going to be able to bring it back,
simply because of my own bandwidth issues. I had a
really tough year. You know this if you've been listening
for a while. I've been really trying to focus on
being more present for my family, really wanting to grow
my family, to get pregnant again, and I've been focusing
my attention and my energy on that, and I just
(03:44):
thought there's absolutely no way that I have the bandwidth
to bring this back. Then I got a phone call
out of nowhere from a friend. He said, I finished
all the modules, and finishing the modules helped me not
only to write my manuscript, but also to finish a
book proposal document, which helped me to land an agent.
And now I'm signing a book contract with a publisher.
So hearing that from him just made me rethink. I
(04:07):
was like, maybe I don't need to bring this back
in a way where I'm coaching every single week this
group of authors. I mean, the coaching element was so
amazing and it was really fulfilling for me. But because
I don't have the bandwidth right now, that phone call
just made me think maybe I could bring this back
and bring it back in a self paced way where
you could move through the modules in your own way,
at your own pace, and you don't have to worry
(04:28):
about showing up to a bunch of coaching calls. So
I made the decision that I'm bringing this back. It
is going to be available to you starting tomorrow if
you're listening to this on Tuesday when I dropped this episode,
Beginning tomorrow, it will be available at a book in
six months dot com. I'll put the link in the
show notes for an unheard of low price that will
not last forever. It will only last until the end.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
Of the year.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
So I'm bringing this back for two hundred and twenty
two dollars. If you want to know the story behind
the two hundred and twenty two dollars. Listen to last
week's episode, because I tell the whole story about getting
woken up in the middle of the night and just
having this epiphany that I needed to steeply discount this
as a gift of my gratitude to you for anybody
who has been waiting and wondering about writing their story
(05:11):
but feeling like they were afraid to take the risk
on themselves. Because normally this course is priced at one
thousand dollars. I get that, you know the world that
we live in right now, one thousand dollars is a
lot of money, So the course is priced at one
thousand dollars. But if it has felt scary to take
that kind of a risk on yourself and your story,
take advantage of this amazing gift that I'm offering to
(05:32):
you for the holiday season. It will be available through
the end of this calendar year, and then the course
we'll go back to nine ninety nine and it will
stay at nine ninety nine for the foreseeable future. So,
if you have always wanted to write your story, if
you've been toying with the idea, if there's a book
idea kind of like knocking on your door, or you know,
pulling at your shirt a little bit and even thinking
about doing it. Now is the time to do it.
(05:54):
Use the code Gratitude at checkout starting tomorrow, and you
will be able to purchase a book in six months
two hundred and twenty two dollars. You'll be able to
move through at your own pace, in your own way,
and then by midway through next year, you could have
a finished manuscript, just like my friend who called me
out of the blue. So I hope you take advantage
of that offer, and I hope you love, love, love
(06:17):
this conversation with Devor Silverman as much as I did
enjoy well. Welcome to the Write Your Story Podcast, Devra Silverman.
We're so happy to have you.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
I'm excited to get to talk about your books today,
and I'm also just excited to get to chat with
you about astrology. I mean partly selfishly because this is
a topic that I've been interested in for a long time,
and I also feel like your book. I was just
saying too, that your book met me in the perfect moment,
because I feel like I've been on this kind of
roller coaster ride with astrology where I was introduced to astrology.
(06:46):
A couple years ago. I was really excited about it.
I started learning all these things, I started meeting with
an astrologist and really feeling like everything was just lining
up and hitting perfectly and really making sense to me.
And then I went through a period where I feel
like I became somewhat of a skeptic. Were some of
the things that she had said to me that were
like a little more predictive didn't turn out the way
that she said that they were going to turn out,
(07:08):
and so then I had like a little falling it up.
I think with astrology where I was like, yeah, I
have been calling it my second deconstruction because I also
grew up in organized religion and had a first deconstruction
when I left that church, and so this had been
calling my second deconstruction. I feel like your book met me.
Your book's held I don't believe in astrology. First of all,
(07:28):
this is your most recent book, A therapists Guide to
the life changing Wisdom of the Stars, and a couple
of things I love about it is that one it
really approaches the topic from this kind of skeptical point
of view. It's like, okay, if you want to be
a skeptic about this. Here, I'm going to meet you
and answer all of the questions that you have. And
then the second piece that I love about it is
that it integrates that therapist perspective, which I feel like
(07:49):
brings the astrology stuff down to earth and makes it
more accessible for the average person. Tell me where the
idea for this book came from and what made you
want to write it.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
You know, if you read the last chapter, I confess
that I didn't want to write it. I was interested
in your whole podcast because writing for me is so
unnatural and I've written two books, so yeah, the process
of writing as a personality, we're both geminis. It's I'm
a great communicator. It's what I do in my sleep.
(08:19):
I'm always talking and thinking and organizing my thoughts and
writing and reading, and it's a full time job. But
the translation of sharing it with people and creating an
art forms I'm just a communication device is radical for me.
So that's where I get self conscious, inhibited, cautious, reluctant, ambivalent,
(08:44):
all those words which you know for a writer and
everyone on your podcast. It's the process of doing it.
And I'm like the person that goes no. Yeah, okay.
So when they called me, like probably three times, different
publishing houses called me and said we want you to
write an astrology book. And I was like, thanks for sharing. Click,
I just click. There's enough astrology books for twenty five
(09:08):
Like the rest of our lives, we could read astrology books.
And then I had this really good idea that I
shared with this publisher, the agent, and he was like, no,
I writ it about my idea. And I had gathered
all the work together and I compiled it. It was
a compilation of I have a writing class called tell
Me a Story, and I've been doing it for the
(09:29):
last probably five six years, and I had accumulated incredibly
great writers that were not even identified as writers. They
were just telling their story and yes, so compelling. I
was like, let's write about this. And then he was like, no,
we want an astrology book. And I was like yeah,
So finally, what was the turning point? I say to people.
(09:51):
He manipulated me. He made me an offer I couldn't refuse,
and so I went with it. I was like, okay, life, obviously,
somebody wants the legacy of an astrologer who's been in
it for almost fifty years, I may as well, and
so I reluctantly did it. And then I had this
amazing ghost writer who made me sound better than I
(10:12):
actually sound, and we had such a rapport. She took
all my classes. She came to the school and really
stood out. She has four planets and Aquarius. She's a genius.
And that was what did it. But to be honest,
and this is what I was excited about, your podcast
is the transparency of a reluctant artist, which is not
the norm. I'm sure you have a lot of writers
(10:33):
on your love to write.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Yeah, we do, But you know, I think writers kind
of I can kind of in my head divide them
into two categories. I've worked with a lot of authors
like you who have because you have a platform, because
you have something to say, because you've already been communicating
about your work. You have people who are paying attention
and just like the story you're sharing, who are like, Hey,
we want you to write a book. We want it
(10:56):
to be about X or X, y Z whatever. The author.
You might be like, you know, either not that interested
in writing that book, or maybe you are interested in
writing that book, but you feel like, well, I'm not
really a writer. I could never put something like that
together and just exactly like the story that you're describing,
you're a reluctant writer for those reasons. Well, then you
have another type of writer, which I would put myself
(11:17):
in this category. I have known since I was young, young, young, young, young,
that I wanted to write. I always wanted to be
a published author. I was always like scribbling away in
notebooks and you know, writing poetry and just writing things
that nobody was ever reading. It was like breathing.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
For me.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Writing was just that easy. But then those writers become
reluctant because we see that there's a whole industry of
writing out there, and we tell ourselves, well, I don't
really have an Instagram following, I don't have a platform.
No one's really listening to me. I'm not on TV.
I don't have that much to add. I guess I'll
just you know, journal quietly by myself. And we talk
ourselves out of sharing our writing beyond just you know,
(11:53):
our own little journal or like maybe with our family
members or whatever. And so what I say is that
the universe aspect to writing is that it is a
tool that's here for us to share our stories, our
thoughts our beliefs with the world around us, which is
like a very human impulse. Every human being, whether they
want a publish or not, has that impulse to share
(12:13):
themselves and share their story.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
With the world.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
But some of us talk ourselves out of it because
we say, well, I'm not really a writer, and others
of us talk ourselves out of it because we say, well,
I don't have a platform, I'm not on TV, whatever
it is. So everyone has their own way of kind
of swirling out of the act of writing. And yet
for me, the reason I love this podcast and love
talking to the listeners on this podcast is because I
believe that writing, just like you're talking about with astrology,
(12:38):
writing is this amazing tool that every single one of
us have access to that we can use to bring
us back to our life and to bring us back
to the agency that we have to shape and change
our lives. And when I got the email about interviewing you,
one of the reasons I was so excited about it because,
like I mentioned, I was in this kind of like
lull where I was like, I don't even know if
I believe in astrology anymore. But one of the reasons
(13:01):
I was so excited to talk to you is I'm like,
maybe astrology is less this predictive element and more this
way to shape and understand ourselves in the world, just
like writing is. Like writing is not like your surefire
ticket to a publishing contract. For me, at least, writing
is about meeting the moment in your life and seeing
(13:21):
yourself more clearly and then sharing that self with the
people around you.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
Everything you said, yes, yeah, I really agree that everything
you said that was so brilliant. It's funny because our
charts are so similar. We're both Gemini with mercury and yeah,
which is a skeptic. That's why I wrote the book. Okay,
astrology is not exclusively for predicting. There are brilliant astrologers
who predict and I'm all over supporting them, But that
(13:48):
is not my specialty, and you saw it my book.
My specialty is you have gremlins who talk shit about
you all day long in the mirror when you're lying
in bed in the middle of the night, and where
is the off button? And the gremlins are specific. You
and I both have Mercury and Taurus to our mercuries,
like where does the mind interrupt the actual truth? And
(14:08):
for you and I, it's all about logic. It's like,
can you just make this real? Is there evidence? Can
you just show me something that's kind of so the thing?
Didn't you told me this was gonna happen to well forget? Yeah,
well that is not so. Knowing that my gremlins are
based on practicality, I had to say that, excuse me,
you need to sit down now. I figured you out.
You've been busted. Now I'm in charge. And once I
(14:31):
did that, my mind became an ally when it's kind
of like a wild kid who doesn't have an off
button because there's no subsion. So astrology at its best
is a psychological I mean it's young said it. The
best psychology will be a dinosaur science until it includes astrology.
Like psychological understanding of your operating system has a code
(14:55):
that you can decode by looking at the chart. And
I have a school where I start like at a
third grade level. Fourth yes, class to school, and at
first you're like, you think you're a kid in class,
and it's really fun because I make everything fun, said
the Gemini. And then by the time you're at the
fourth class, you're like, what just happen? Because you know
why we address your shadow. Yeah, and so I worked
(15:18):
at psychologically. So in the book you get a taste
of it. But in the school, it's a six week class.
There's only ten people in the room, and you get
your chart, comes on the screen and there's a mentor
who studied your chart, and you begin to the second
class is exactly what we're talking about. What mercury? What
thoughts are you having that just through astrology in the bathtub,
(15:40):
in the garage, in the toilet, like, what'd you do
with it? So everyone, you have to pick your medicine,
and this is a medicine that is very soothing. I
would say that the best part of astrology is the
relief that occurs when you realize you're not a mistake,
that exactly what your gremlins saying is untrue. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Yeah. Which reminds me of an exercise that you in
Missing Element, which was your first book, that this is
a like such a great writing assignment, but you gave
this exercise where and I still have I literally pulled
this out for our conversation. I still have the page
where I wrote down my answers to your exercise, something
to the effect of thinking about like who you were
(16:24):
before or you had to be anybody different, and just
writing down some of those words about like how you
were as a child. So I wrote down all of
these words and was realizing that a lot of the
ways that I've adjusted myself to become more acceptable in
the world is yeah, that I've adjusted myself away from
my essential nature because I was called flighty forgetful, you know,
(16:46):
I wrote disorganized, unreliable, idealistic, overly spiritual. So I've almost
like adjusted myself in my life to be more like intellectual.
I wrote down on this list that she's writing poems
when she should be studying.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Calculus, you know.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
So it's like, then I'm realizing, like as an adult,
that I've formulated this whole personality around someone who is
like more studious, more serious, more and there is a
part of me that's that. But as I looked at
this list, I was like, oh, that's the missing element.
That's the part of me that I need to reclaim
in order to be my whole self. And it was
(17:22):
just such an insightful exercise that you offered. I think
everybody should should do that.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
It's so powerful. The missing element. The first book I
wrote there's no astrology in it. I did that on
purpose so that no one that didn't believe in astrology
wouldn't read the book. And it's simply a description of
the four personality types that are based on every single system,
from the enneagram to the human design to the gene keys.
Every single thing is based on astrology, so I use
(17:49):
the four elements. And then the second book was a
deeper dive into astrology, and it was all about astrology,
so I did kind of It's so Gemini. I did
two books. There's no astrology, onelog, go ahead and take
your FIP. And the first if you buy the first
book from my website, I will stick your chart in it,
so I will actually calculate your chart and put it
in and you can and I'll mail it to So
(18:11):
the second book you have to go to Amazon. You
don't need to go to my website. But I did
do astrology secretly inside the book by sending everyone their chart.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Yeah, both books were great, And actually you just brought
up a question that I've had since reading your book,
because I definitely was into the aneagram for a long
period of times. You and I think some of my
listeners have been into the anagram, and I wonder what
the connection was. I mean, there feels like an obvious
connection between aneagram, numerology astrology, but can you explain in
any more detail what that connection is?
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Which I love the anagram? What are you in the anagram?
Speaker 2 (18:42):
A four with a three wing?
Speaker 1 (18:44):
Huh? That makes sense. So in astrology it's so detailed
in the aneagram, it's the Christian mystics that wrote it.
It's based on the same system, which is understanding your
soul's impulse and giving you a permission slip. That's essentially
what at It's like when you were a kid and
you'd go to the teacher and say, can I go
to the bathroom and she'd give you a hall pass
(19:05):
and I'd love memory is so fun, and then you
go outside. Without astrology, the enneagram or the gene kis
certainly and the humans, all of the systems are based
underneath on the elemental description. So the enneagram is really
steeped in that most people don't know how to marry
the two because they're so separated, and people don't want
(19:26):
to learn astrology because it seems so complicated, where the
eddy m my numbers and you study the nine numbers
and you go into depth, but it's not so complicated
the way I teach it. I teach it in a
childlike way.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
I think that's what I was saying at the beginning
of our conversation. Even though astrology is it is complicated,
you know, I can see how that would be an
obstacle for people, But the way that you teach it
really brings it down to earth and helps it helps
me feel like I could engage with this and kind
of in some ways figure out my own chart. I mean, obviously,
like I'm so new at this, You're gonna be able
to see things in my chart that I'm not gonna
(20:08):
be able to see. But I started doing this to
my husband too, who is like maybe even more of
a skeptic than I am. And I'll be like, oh,
that's because you know that's the Taurus and you or
that's your exactly your Satittarius rising or whatever. And it's
the difference between calculus and math.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
So astrology the higher level is calculus. It's so abstract
and it's so mathematic, and the simple version that I
teach is like one plus one equals too, Like you
you have fire, you personally have fire and air. So
if you have fire and air and that's a combustive,
you you add air in the fireplace to the fire
and the fire gets bigger. Well, you add air everywhere
(20:45):
you go. You're like, let me ask you a question.
I just want to. I just was. I just underline
that hold on a thing. Let me just do this up.
So your fire is your primary element, and that's English.
That's simple. I make astrology simple, and I'm fortunately we
nostrology is bad. Pr Like people talk about it like
it's some kind of parlor trick. That's one and then two.
(21:07):
It seems complicated. It's not. But it took me a
long time. I mean, this has been my life's work.
And I'm almost seventy, so it took me fifty years
of doing this over. I mean, it's really funny to
think about when I started and I was in high school.
I just had my fiftieth high school reunion and I
saw all the kids and I knew what their moons
(21:29):
were because when I was in high school, I was obsessed.
So yeah, this life, I had a mission.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
Yeah, this has been calling to you and inviting.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
You and I in love with it. It does never
ever like skeptics are my favorite people because I one
reading for them. And by the way, I don't do reading,
so don't ask me. But I have trained. There's twenty
four people that are certified by me that have gone
through a rigorous training, and I do this thing called
matchmaking where they write in they don't want to take
(21:58):
the class. I wish that everone in the world study,
but they want a proper reading with someone they can trust.
So I do their chart and then I look at
the charts of all my certified astrologias and I matchmake.
It's like one of my favorite things to do because
I want people to see the practical value. Yes, okay,
so to your point, it's not always predictive. It is
(22:18):
assessing your personality.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
So I don't know how much of my personal experience
to share. But that was one of the things that
happened to me that really as an astrologer. I loved her.
She actually taught me so much and helped me to
find my way in astrology. And there were so many
things she said that that held true. But I think
because I was on this quest to build something, to
make something happen, and she kept saying like, yes, all
(22:41):
the stars that are aligning for this, like everything's this
is the perfect moment for this to be happening, and
this to be happening. And she was telling me, you know,
not like exactly this is what's going to happen next,
and this is the dat it's going to happen, but
kind of like that's how I took it. And so
then when that endeavor fell apart, and I suffered quite
a bit from the fall apart, I've had a hard
(23:02):
time making sense of that story in retrospect. And I
wonder if actually, now that I say that, I wonder
if astrology could help me read writing helps you make
sense of it. So could astrology help me reframe what
I experienced?
Speaker 1 (23:14):
This is the distinction between a good astrologer and a
less trained astrologer. Predictive qualities are absolutely dangerous because there
is the free will button, there is the unknown, There
is the lessons that are hidden behind the door that
you had to learn. Because one of your life lessons
clearly is partnering with people in understanding relationships. That's one
(23:38):
of your hardest things. So if part of your lesson
was to be disappointed, and that's in the part, then
why didn't she say that, not that you may yeah,
going to work. But I just aim at the lesson.
I don't aim at the practical concrete. There are certainly
obvious times. I'm thinking of a woman who is now
I think she's twenty nine, but I met her when
(23:58):
she was like fifteen, young girl. Her mother came for
a reading and I looked at her chart and I
was like, oh, oh, this chart. She's gonna be famous,
this girl, definitely, And she ended up becoming the number
one serf girl in all of Hawaii and wow, and
her mom never stopped saying, dever saw this when you
were a teenager. So there's an obvious loud messenger when
(24:19):
the sun is on the mid heaven, there's a clue
about fame. On the other hand, to your point to
say to someone your business is going to be successful
or you're especially when you're collaborating, because that's your big
issue this life. When you're working with people, they will
disappoint you. So that's a psychological truth about human nature,
but it's specifically true to your life. Lesson is how
(24:41):
do you partner without having expectations? Now that's not an
easy quest, and I simply in my astrology. In our school,
we're looking at your purpose, your life lessons, your challenges.
We're not just looking at timing. Although that is a
big part of astrology, it's not my focus.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Okay, So I want to I have a little deeper
into that because if someone's wanting to take a look
at their chart, I mean, I feel like probably most
of my listeners, maybe not every single one, but most
of them. And I know I am in this place
where I know like the basic sun moon rising, but
beyond that, you know, everything that I'm learning in your
book is learning where my mercury is placed, and all
of that stuff is new. So if you were talking
(25:20):
to someone who you know had my preschool understanding astrology,
where would you have me start As far as understanding
like my what you just talked about, like life lessons,
my life purpose.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
The first thing I would look at is your missing
element from the first book, and so you don't have
any water in your chart. So your life lesson is
your emotional body. And when you get caught either in
sadness or disappointment or being able to deal with your
inner world and wanting to not share it because you're secretive,
you're like h do we have to go there? Your
(25:52):
reluctance or your ambivalence about the emotional content of being
human is your one of your big issues. So either
you easily or you don't cry at all? Which is it? Well?
Speaker 2 (26:03):
I cry easily, but I present as very put together,
cool headed, and when really in real life, I'm like
extremely emotional and yeah, and what I'll do is like
if I'm having a day where I'm just feeling like
really down or really, I just shut the world out,
you know, and then when I feel better, then I
re engage.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
Yeah. So this is a classical story of water. When
it's not well developed, it becomes a secret, it stays internal.
This is my first book. The missing element for you
is water, so that you internalize and you secret, you
go off by yourself and you process with a stretch.
Would be for you to start letting the emotion's surface,
share them and tag them, accept them, rather than stuffing
(26:45):
them because it just creates symptoms, any pasical symptom in
the body. I hate to say this, it's so dangerous
is unprocessed emotions. And it's not necessarily like you stubbed
your toe and oh it's not like but when there's
a big symptom that it follows you around in your body,
or it's been a hereditary issue, there's some unfinished processing.
(27:06):
Now can you process and make it go away? Not necessarily.
What you can do if you're missing water is put
your hands on your heart, put your hand on your tummy,
and go what am I feeling all day long? And
then you manage it lifetime, What am I feeling right now?
And it takes a real effort for a Jebedi to
have her attention on her body rather than going off
(27:28):
by yourself and turning everybody away yes and going yeah,
but if you don't share, so your issue is in
There are other people that have water as their issue
and they cry all the time and tell every and
they overshare. They can't do button. So the water is
just swamping them and they're moody and they're addicted because
(27:49):
they're feeling overwhelmed and assaulted by the human experience. So
the missing element we're talking about, and that would be
the first thing in the very first class they would
say to you. So your job would be the day
as a practice, what am I feeling? And once that
becomes a familiar land, this is and we're going to
go through all four of them. In the name of water.
(28:10):
You'll notice that your intuition increases. You pay attention to
being disappointed before it hits the point where there's Niagara falls.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
Yeah, and you see attentive in the moment, and you
become an expert at tracking your own emotional body. And
therefore the symptoms don't required. The reclusion isn't necessary. The ability, yes,
there's a big one for you to ask for what
you want forget about it right now. That's so. There's
the first thing you would learn in our school is so, now,
(28:40):
let's say you're missing air. Let's just use it for
the audience. And how would you know that? You'd have
to go get your chart done. But you can find
out if you can't communicate, You don't use the phone,
You never answer your text, you don't want a date.
You have only a very few people around, and you
think that people aren't interesting, so you don't listen. That's
no air. That's the opposite of me and you. But
they aren't listening to this podcast about writing. Anyone that
(29:03):
doesn't have air, doesn't like to write, doesn't like to read.
They find themselves spaced out a lot. They forget things.
And the road of error is they take all these classes,
all these writing classes, but they never publish because they
don't get things done. Now that's the road of an
excessive amount of air. The high road is, oh, I
figured it out. Like you put your hands on your
heart and your tummy for the water. The air person
(29:25):
makes a list and goes, I have a deadline and
I can't let myself off the hook. And I took
the class and I wrote the notes down and then
I practiced it, and I went and took my reiki
and did it on someone rather than just taking the
yoga class and not because what air people do is
they study all the time and they're all listening to
your show and they don't follow. Yeah, so they would
(29:46):
learn some skills based on our school of what you're
going to do to insert the medicine. If it's Earth
and you're really caught by numbers and money and you're
organizing and you're not good enough and you have this
in your chart deducing enough, you're not making enough what
you're doing, you should be. You should is the operative word.
Then there's medicine for that. Oh. The mounter is I
(30:08):
always get things done. Yeah, and I trust myself. Now
that's not true for most earth people. They don't think
they're getting everything done, and they don't trust themselves. So
I ab cert medicine and Earth people are bound by shoulds,
productivity and not making enough money. They're big thing is
they should be making money. You have this one in space,
and then the third last category is fire. And if
(30:30):
you're missing fire, you've stopped having fun, you stopped having orgasms,
you stopped working out, you stopped going to the gym.
And you think you want to because when you were
young you were so athletic, but now you've thrown that
all to the wind and you're not doing any physical activity.
And therefore one of the side effects of not having fire,
which you have quite a bit, is they get really
disappointed in life and grumpy, so that the people that
(30:52):
go everybody's so miserable. I hate they say all these
miserable things, and they say him loud, and they tell
everyone politics and their point of view and how stupid
the other party is, like would you stop? And the
medicine for fire is there is an off button, and
it's called knowing when to stop. Now, a fire person
who's just like ready to get pissed off or or
(31:13):
so shut down. They lost their fire and they're miserable.
There's this button called stop and recalibrate. I call it
the observer. But when you're missing an element, it's the
most unnatural thing in the world. If I said to
you you have to cry in front of people, You're
like no, like that, it's not yes. But you have
(31:34):
to learn. And this is called ebene and growing and
why we go to therapy.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
And yeah, I mean you put the nail right on
the head. And it also it actually answers my question
about how do I recontextualize or reframe the experience that
I had with that astrology, because I think a lot
of what's unfolded in the last fighters of my life
has been about overwhelming me with such sadness and loss
that I can't anymore. Like in order to hide it,
(32:01):
I realized in the last couple of years I would
have to completely remove myself from the world. There's just
been so much loss. So it's like I have to work,
I have to keep showing up, I have to get
on Instagram, I have to do the podcast, and I
can't just fake it, fake it, fake it, fake it,
fake it forever. And so it's like, I'm it's almost
like the overwhelm was on purpose so that I could
(32:22):
no longer ignore exactly.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
Got you nailed it. And when loss, when water is
the topic, the vulnerability, which is what water is because
it's tears, the vulnerability of water is disclosing, I'm scared.
I'm so sad, I'm lonely. I understand why I got
left out. I don't know why that death happened. I
(32:46):
never got over it. It's it's the permission. And I
as a therapist, you know, I celebrate. It's so bad
that I celebrate people's pain. It's terrible to see. I mean,
as soon as someone comes in as a client who's
really in a deep state of leftovers, I call it
like the ghosts that never went away. Okay, now I
have a because I can really help you. Yes, And
(33:09):
that's what a good astrology session does. It's not just talking.
It's activating the emotions, questioning people's thoughts. It's giving them
permission to see how accomplished they are by looking at
the check I can see in your chart, like your
writing is compulsive, and that makes me excellent at it
because it's coming out of your heart. But you don't
(33:31):
see you know, people that are listening, you, all you
writers out there who love it. You can't measure your
success by being published. Yeah that's ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
Yeah, Or you can, but you you it will break
your heart because and I think that's some of what's
happened in my career. Some people would look at my
career and be like, she's been so successful. I've really written,
you know, I've written four of my own books. I've
ghost written ten for other people. And I mean, I've
done my books have done well in the marketplace in
compar like in the spectrum. But and you were mentioning
this about my chart too, like whatever I do, it's
(34:02):
never good enough for me. So in my head, I'm like,
I've put all this effort in, I've put all this
work in, and I've never been on the New York
Times list. I've never you know, hit the Wall Street Journalist.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
It's called moon and Capricorn. That's the way your emotional
bodies earth. And you're measuring your emotional success by results,
and that's not accurate. It's not the right answer. It
doesn't serve you. And until you rewrite the narrative that
you're hard drive is operating with the narrative that says
practicality describes success.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
Yeah, it's like you were saying at the beginning of
the call, it's like, if I can't point to it,
it doesn't feel real to me. And so it's like,
you know, I can get messages all day long from
people who say your words change my life. Thank you
so much, You've had such an impact on me. But
it's like, but I'm not on the New York Times
list yet. And it's funny because, like so much of
my teaching to people is about, like, don't worry about
the numbers, don't worry about who's reading. Just write with
(34:55):
passion right from your heart. And I believe that. But
then there's this other part of me that it says, like, no, no.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
Your mercury is in Earth and Taurus, your emotional bodies
in Capricorn and Earth and Earth. People need results. Until
it's what I said earlier about Earth, until you start
repeating over and over again, I always get things done.
And there's another mantra for Earth, and I'm much I'm
doing much better than I think. Yeah, but you know,
it's it's a real the medicine. That's why I think
(35:33):
of the book. I don't believe in astrology as medicine
is this human psyche is built to be mean to itself, don't. Yeah,
it's such a bad design.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
It's so true. Yeah, it's there's so many different ways
that we do that to ourselves. And yeah, I was
just thinking too about how you wrote about a moon
in Capricorn. That Capricorn is a tricky placement for moon.
I think you said because Capricorn is so I set it.
But it's so earth centered and yet illnatant. The man
is meant to be your emotional body. So it's like
(36:06):
if you have their like a contradiction to one another.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
And so and so you guys, everyone listening. Your chart
tells me what you came to learn. Now, the question
is are you learning it? I mean, that's a different conversation.
But I'm telling you now and taking level one, and
all you got to do is just take level one.
And our school opens in September, and jail only twice
a year, September and January. J So there's one coming
up in January. It's just such a permission slip. It's
(36:32):
it's like the I get to watch, particularly women because
our school is almost ninety eight and my company, the
women that teach are all women. There's such a comfort
for me as a business owner because I too miss
the New York Times, and I too like so what,
But I have Mercury Tours just like you. So I
(36:53):
have goals that are concrete, and I have written, and
I'm like you. I've written and written and written, and
I keep it at a drawer most of the time.
I yeah, I had a horrible You're gonna this is
an unbelievable story. So, like you, I've been writing since
I was a kid. I kept it in a joy,
never shared. It was always a secret for me. I
kept it in my computer for hundreds of years. And
(37:15):
then about two years ago, I had a computer that
I was giving away to a friend because she needed
one and I was getting a new one. And I
didn't know that on the iCloud there's one button a
warning that if someone unplugs that button, every single thing
in your cloud is gone. And she did it, but
she didn't go and I didn't know. And then when
(37:36):
I went to come back to my computer, and it
was every single thing I wrote was gone, and I
literally cried like a like someone had died and my
kids were one of my kids, and he was like,
and I'm a grown up and he's a grown up
and he was like, mom, get it together. I was
like no. And after happened, which took a long time
to get over, I realized it was a gift in disguise,
(38:00):
ego to reduce the memory of being someone special at
the writing secret world and start putting it out when
I had it, And so, yeah, I've changed. But that
was I hardly ever tell that story because it's so
to OUs. Geminis what a tragedy.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
Tragedy it is. I feel that in my bones. I
think I would sob for days of something.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
I was absolutely I know it was such a funny
thing because I was literally and I'm sorry that they
had to hear it. I was literally wailing. Yeah, And
then you know, it's so interesting, like here's one of them.
I had written poems when I was a kid that
I had memorized. One of them was this one Once
upon a time when time was out of the question.
(38:41):
Once was all it took to learn a lesson, just once.
Speaker 2 (38:45):
That's gorgeous.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
I was a little person and it came.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
I mean, it's mind blowing to me. And I have
little kids. I have an almost four year old in
the five year old, and like the way that they're
connected to the truth of themselves and also to the
truth of the universe and the stuff that comes through
their mouths. And then hearing that you wrote that when
you were tiny and the same same type of thing.
I mean, I started writing when I was very young,
and I think back now to the things that I
(39:10):
wrote back then, and sometimes, you know, life is so
hard on us. I don't know if that's the right
way to say it, but I just feel like the loss,
the heartbreak, the challenges, the whatever, you know, you lose
track of that part of you that's five still that
like trusts so deeply trust that everything's going to be fine.
And so I don't know, hearing you recite that poem
(39:31):
just as like a way of connecting back to that
version of ourselves.
Speaker 1 (39:34):
And I remembered I have like five of those in
my head that never went away, that were from when
I was Yeah, that was a good news.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
That you know, it speaks to to also the loss,
the deep loss of losing all of those writings. That's
part of the grief, I think is it's like the
connection to that part of ourselves that was so connected
to the universe.
Speaker 1 (39:56):
I'm I would say, I'm still connected. I have child
life in a big way. Nobody believes I'm going to
seventy and you know, I'm a year and a half away.
And I think part of the gift of being a
Gemini I don't have Capricorn is that I have never lost.
I mean, it's almost silly. I wake up every day
(40:19):
with like, like the colors, I'm looking at the colors
in my room, look at the art like I am.
I am in rapture, but that is my kid. Yeah.
I don't know what happened to me. I think I
ate the wrong thing or somehow, or I got the
wrong chart or something's wrong because I did not. I
did not demonstrate the release of the innocence of seeing
(40:41):
every day brand new. I'm you know, in the Tourot deck,
I'm teaching the tureau right now on.
Speaker 2 (40:48):
Yeah, I noticed that on you on your email list.
Speaker 1 (40:50):
So yeah, And the first card of the Turot Deck,
the very first card is the Fool, and the fool
is the kid that jumps off a cliff. That to
your point, that just like so innocent, and that is
how I start the deck is you were an idiot
to sign up to come here because you didn't get
any instructions. They gave us nothing. And there's a fool
(41:11):
of innocence that can say willingly, I'm so confused and
this is so silly, and I don't really understand all
those lines. I don't understand that I need help, which
is one of your big lessons, the little fool going
uh oh I j if I forgot to bring my juice?
Can someone? Can you help me? And that innocence of
(41:32):
the fool. It's the same thing with writing. It took me.
I know this is probably true for you. I took
so many of those writing classes where you write and
then you read for like before I ever wrote the
first book, and it helped me so much. Be the
fool to say I.
Speaker 2 (41:49):
Don't yeah, I mean writing even if you're if you're
tactically trained as a writer, even still writing and publishing,
your work has to have some of that energy to it.
You have to uh, almost like a naivete that I'm
going to just throw this out in the world and
people are gonna connect or respond or whatever. I love
that childlikeness about you. I think it's one of the
things that has drawn me to you, into your work,
(42:10):
and I wish I had more of that in my
life because.
Speaker 1 (42:12):
You're moons in Campricorn. You're an old who's very practical
and grounded. I can't say the same. I mean I might,
but I had to learn. See, that's the missing element.
I had to You came with Earth, and that's that's
a burden because you feel uber responsible and you're never
good enough. I didn't come with it. I had to
go look at that, and that's what the Missing book,
the Missing Element really helped me when I figured out
(42:34):
my missing element and then which was Earth, and then
cultivated it and went, oh, and you're right, it's burdensome.
I see the veil, the downside of Earth. I can see. Yeah,
you're like, why is always not good enough?
Speaker 2 (42:47):
And just I take everything so seriously, you know, like
I wish I could just be like, not be so
serious about it, like the fool. Yeah, a little bit
of that would be would be nice.
Speaker 1 (42:56):
You can cookivate it. That's why my school's here. And hew,
you're welcome to come.
Speaker 2 (43:00):
Allie, I'm I'm going to join in fact, and if
you can send me a link or have your team
send me a link, I'll include it in the show notes,
and you know, we'll specifically invite students to join us too.
Because when I heard you talking about it, I was like,
this is a no brainer for me. I've been wanting
to learn.
Speaker 1 (43:13):
I've been learning, and you all learn it. You're going
to be so surprised because of your we you and
I both have tours. The simplicity of it is what's
going to feed you. And then the complication of understanding
your kids. Yeah, that's where the tires hit the ground.
When we understand our children's charts, it's a life changer.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
Oh, I'm so excited for that. I'm because, yeah, I mean,
understanding them is so essential to being the container in
which they grow up in a ball.
Speaker 1 (43:45):
When my son, here's my best story. When my son
came home. He was in like seventh grade, and he
came home and he looked terrible. I was like, what
happened to you? And he was like, all the teachers
put me in a circle and they got really mad
at me, and I said, what did you do? And
he said, well, I hit the today. I was like,
you are a double Eries. You didn't hit the bully.
Who was going to hit the bully if not a
(44:06):
double Eries? And if not you yeah, And then he's like, wait,
you're not mad. I was like, no, somebody had to
hit the bully.
Speaker 2 (44:13):
I think, did you tell that story in The Missing Element?
I feel like I recognize that story, but it's Yeah.
Just the reason I love the story and love what
you're saying is it's the feeling of giving yourself permission
to be who you are and to not always have
to morph and change to be more acceptable and pleasing
to those around you, which I feel like I do
have done a fair bit of in my life. But yeah,
(44:33):
like making that list that I made as I was
reading The Missing Element, I was like, some of you know,
I could stand to bring back some of that, like
flighty forgetful writing poetry version of myself.
Speaker 1 (44:45):
Here, let me tell you the good news before we
finish here. Because we're about done. Moon and Capricorn gets
better as they get older, okay, and because they get
fed up with the disappointment, and because they get fed
up with not being good enough, they said, go throw
their hands in their ear and go, look that's what
happens age really well, that fits.
Speaker 2 (45:07):
I feel like I'm getting there. It's like it's too
tiring to you know, to live that way anymore, so
we'll move on.
Speaker 1 (45:14):
To the night. I agree completely, it's too tiring. For
God's sake. Why do we have to be that person
that's oh no, man at themselves for doing everything right?
It doesn't now And I really want to just echo
when my book came out, and there's going to be
a soft cover coming out next year, which I'm going
to do another book launch, and they and I swear
to you, I spent too much money aiming because my
(45:38):
Mercury's and tourist for the New York Times, which of course,
and I really had to meet something in myself to
your point where I said to myself, Deborah, you wrote
this book with everything I had. I mean, I gave
it everything I am. Yeah. Yeah, And writing a book
is like having a baby times ten. A baby is
(45:58):
nothing compared to writing a book. And so I had
to really catch myself right after I spent all that
money and call myself up, which I was on the
way in. I kept saying, is this my ego, and
the answer was.
Speaker 2 (46:13):
Yes, Yeah, I'm just right there with you. I know
that feeling so well of putting you not only emotionally
put everything on the table, but then financially put everything
on the table, and to have it not pan out
is always disappointing.
Speaker 1 (46:24):
Now I want to read your books. I'm going to
find your books.
Speaker 2 (46:26):
Well, I'll send you copies, give me, send me your
or have your teams send good putting it. Yeah, send
me your your mailing address and I'll send you all
my books.
Speaker 1 (46:34):
Oh, I'm so excited.
Speaker 2 (46:36):
I'm happy to get to share them with you. And
and I just I love your work so much and
I'm just so inspired by you. And I am going
to be joining your program in January because it's been
something It's just a no brainer for me. It's been
something that I've been wanting to learn more about anyway.
I've seen you launch it before, I've thought about joining before,
and for whatever reason, I haven't done it. So that's
the time, and we'll put I'll foot links in the
(46:58):
show notes for listeners to do that and for both
your books. Is there anything else that you want me
to link to or talk about?
Speaker 1 (47:05):
You know, I think the biggest is the school is
where the power is. It's only six weeks and it's
only like a two hour You're on zoom with only
ten people, so it's super intimate, and that is my
I love getting the gifts, it's funny. And the emails
after and the mail people mail me things. Yes, it's
like people's husbands write me back and say, she's so
(47:28):
much happier. Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (47:30):
That's so amazing.
Speaker 1 (47:31):
I love that. Oh cool.
Speaker 2 (47:34):
Well, thank you so much for chatting with us and
sharing your wisdom. And I'm looking forward to learning more
from you and I will definitely send some of my
books your way. And I'm just so grateful to be
able to introduce you to our listeners. I know they're
going to learn so much from you too, So thanks
for your trying.
Speaker 1 (47:47):
Here's a secret. You'll be the first time telling this too.
We haven't told anyone this yet. In twenty twenty six,
I am picking twenty two women that I am going
to personally train because I stopped teaching ten years ago,
and they'll be going through a rigorous program to become
an astrologer. So if anyone's yeah, all you have to
do is write to info at Deborah Silverman Astrology and
(48:08):
say I want to be one of those. We're gonna
vet them, We're gonna look at their charts and we're
gonna see like, who has moon and camprigor here's the
upside chart? Who will seriously do the tower? And you
would get all a's.
Speaker 2 (48:20):
Yes, yeah, you know for sure, for sure that if
I tell you I'm gonna be somewhere, I am one
hundred percent going to be there exactly.
Speaker 1 (48:27):
Thank so, I will see you in January. Yeah, okay,
thank you so much. I'd love it. I'm person.
Speaker 2 (48:33):
Thank you, oh, thank you for everything. Appreciate you
Pick up the paces of your life, put them back
together with the words you write, all the beauty and
peace and the magic that you'll start too fun when
you write your story.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
You got the words and said, don't you think it's
down to let them out and write them.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Down on cold It's all about.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
And write your story.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Write you write your story.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Hi, and welcome back to the Write Your Story Podcast.
I'm Ali Fallon, I'm your host, and on today's episode,
I get to share with you this really amazing, beautiful,
insightful conversation that I got to have with Deborah Silverman,
who is an author, she's a teacher, she's an astrologist,
she teaches about the tourou She's such an amazing, incredible person,
(00:50):
and I discovered as I was talking to her that
she and I actually have a lot in common. There's
so much crossover between the work that she does and
the work that I do. And you might not necessarily
think that when you look at her bio, but what
she's really helping people to do, and she's helped thousands
of people to do this is to take the pieces
of their life that maybe don't make sense to them,
(01:10):
or that seem random and disconnected and help them see
it through a lens where they can bring it all
together in one narrative arc. This is almost exactly the
work that I have been doing for the last fifteen
years of my career. I did it through publishing for
a long time, and now I'm kind of shifting that
work more toward storytelling. I mean, it's the same work
that I'm doing, but just less focused on the actually
(01:32):
getting published aspect and more focused on teaching people how
to use a narrative arc to share their stories. She
does this through the lens of astrology, and you'll be
so fascinated as you listen to her talk about how
she does this. I think you're going to really love
what she has to say, because no matter where you
are on the spectrum of believing in astrology to maybe
thinking that like it's totally hogwash, you could be anywhere
(01:55):
on that spectrum, and Deborah has something to offer to
you exactly where you are today. In fact, I told
her this in our conversation, but one of the things
that I love is how she frames her most recent
book to a reader who is skeptical about astrology. I
love it not only because this really fit for me.
I mean, I told her a little bit of my backstory.
You'll hear me say this in the conversation about how
(02:17):
I've had some ups and downs with astrology. I have,
at times, you know, really bought into the idea that
astrology is a true thing and, you know, a meaningful
way to organize our life. And there have been other
times where I have felt like there's no way that
doesn't you know, that doesn't really work, like looking at
you know when you were born, and the shape of
the stars when you were born doesn't really have a
connection to who you are and how you move through
(02:38):
the world. And I feel like I'm in a place
now that's pretty nuanced, like somewhere in the middle where
I really do see the connection between the type of
work she's doing and the type of work I'm doing.
So I'm fascinated for you to hear this conversation and
see if you can pull any insight out of her
astrological knowledge that might help you to make sense of
your story, because really, astrology is just a framework to
(03:01):
help you understand your life in the same way that
a narrative framework is a framework to help you understand
your life. So I'm going to introduce you to Deborah.
I'm so excited for you to get to hear this conversation.
Before we dive into the conversation, though, I want to
make sure that you know that this week I am
reintroducing my signature course called a book in six months.
This has been unavailable for twelve months. I have gotten
(03:23):
endless numbers of emails and dms from people asking me
to bring it back, and I honestly thought that I
was not going to be able to bring it back,
simply because of my own bandwidth issues. I had a
really tough year. You know this if you've been listening
for a while. I've been really trying to focus on
being more present for my family, really wanting to grow
my family, to get pregnant again, and I've been focusing
my attention and my energy on that, and I just
(03:44):
thought there's absolutely no way that I have the bandwidth
to bring this back. Then I got a phone call
out of nowhere from a friend. He said, I finished
all the modules, and finishing the modules helped me not
only to write my manuscript, but also to finish a
book proposal document, which helped me to land an agent.
And now I'm signing a book contract with a publisher.
So hearing that from him just made me rethink. I
(04:07):
was like, maybe I don't need to bring this back
in a way where I'm coaching every single week this
group of authors. I mean, the coaching element was so
amazing and it was really fulfilling for me. But because
I don't have the bandwidth right now, that phone call
just made me think maybe I could bring this back
and bring it back in a self paced way where
you could move through the modules in your own way,
at your own pace, and you don't have to worry
(04:28):
about showing up to a bunch of coaching calls. So
I made the decision that I'm bringing this back. It
is going to be available to you starting tomorrow if
you're listening to this on Tuesday when I dropped this episode,
Beginning tomorrow, it will be available at a book in
six months dot com. I'll put the link in the
show notes for an unheard of low price that will
not last forever. It will only last until the end.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
Of the year.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
So I'm bringing this back for two hundred and twenty
two dollars. If you want to know the story behind
the two hundred and twenty two dollars. Listen to last
week's episode, because I tell the whole story about getting
woken up in the middle of the night and just
having this epiphany that I needed to steeply discount this
as a gift of my gratitude to you for anybody
who has been waiting and wondering about writing their story
(05:11):
but feeling like they were afraid to take the risk
on themselves. Because normally this course is priced at one
thousand dollars. I get that, you know the world that
we live in right now, one thousand dollars is a
lot of money, So the course is priced at one
thousand dollars. But if it has felt scary to take
that kind of a risk on yourself and your story,
take advantage of this amazing gift that I'm offering to
(05:32):
you for the holiday season. It will be available through
the end of this calendar year, and then the course
we'll go back to nine ninety nine and it will
stay at nine ninety nine for the foreseeable future. So,
if you have always wanted to write your story, if
you've been toying with the idea, if there's a book
idea kind of like knocking on your door, or you know,
pulling at your shirt a little bit and even thinking
about doing it. Now is the time to do it.
(05:54):
Use the code Gratitude at checkout starting tomorrow, and you
will be able to purchase a book in six months
two hundred and twenty two dollars. You'll be able to
move through at your own pace, in your own way,
and then by midway through next year, you could have
a finished manuscript, just like my friend who called me
out of the blue. So I hope you take advantage
of that offer, and I hope you love, love, love
(06:17):
this conversation with Devor Silverman as much as I did
enjoy well. Welcome to the Write Your Story Podcast, Devra Silverman.
We're so happy to have you.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
I'm excited to get to talk about your books today,
and I'm also just excited to get to chat with
you about astrology. I mean partly selfishly because this is
a topic that I've been interested in for a long time,
and I also feel like your book. I was just
saying too, that your book met me in the perfect moment,
because I feel like I've been on this kind of
roller coaster ride with astrology where I was introduced to astrology.
(06:46):
A couple years ago. I was really excited about it.
I started learning all these things, I started meeting with
an astrologist and really feeling like everything was just lining
up and hitting perfectly and really making sense to me.
And then I went through a period where I feel
like I became somewhat of a skeptic. Were some of
the things that she had said to me that were
like a little more predictive didn't turn out the way
that she said that they were going to turn out,
(07:08):
and so then I had like a little falling it up.
I think with astrology where I was like, yeah, I
have been calling it my second deconstruction because I also
grew up in organized religion and had a first deconstruction
when I left that church, and so this had been
calling my second deconstruction. I feel like your book met me.
Your book's held I don't believe in astrology. First of all,
(07:28):
this is your most recent book, A therapists Guide to
the life changing Wisdom of the Stars, and a couple
of things I love about it is that one it
really approaches the topic from this kind of skeptical point
of view. It's like, okay, if you want to be
a skeptic about this. Here, I'm going to meet you
and answer all of the questions that you have. And
then the second piece that I love about it is
that it integrates that therapist perspective, which I feel like
(07:49):
brings the astrology stuff down to earth and makes it
more accessible for the average person. Tell me where the
idea for this book came from and what made you
want to write it.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
You know, if you read the last chapter, I confess
that I didn't want to write it. I was interested
in your whole podcast because writing for me is so
unnatural and I've written two books, so yeah, the process
of writing as a personality, we're both geminis. It's I'm
a great communicator. It's what I do in my sleep.
(08:19):
I'm always talking and thinking and organizing my thoughts and
writing and reading, and it's a full time job. But
the translation of sharing it with people and creating an
art forms I'm just a communication device is radical for me.
So that's where I get self conscious, inhibited, cautious, reluctant, ambivalent,
(08:44):
all those words which you know for a writer and
everyone on your podcast. It's the process of doing it.
And I'm like the person that goes no. Yeah, okay.
So when they called me, like probably three times, different
publishing houses called me and said we want you to
write an astrology book. And I was like, thanks for sharing. Click,
I just click. There's enough astrology books for twenty five
(09:08):
Like the rest of our lives, we could read astrology books.
And then I had this really good idea that I
shared with this publisher, the agent, and he was like, no,
I writ it about my idea. And I had gathered
all the work together and I compiled it. It was
a compilation of I have a writing class called tell
Me a Story, and I've been doing it for the
(09:29):
last probably five six years, and I had accumulated incredibly
great writers that were not even identified as writers. They
were just telling their story and yes, so compelling. I
was like, let's write about this. And then he was like, no,
we want an astrology book. And I was like yeah,
So finally, what was the turning point? I say to people.
(09:51):
He manipulated me. He made me an offer I couldn't refuse,
and so I went with it. I was like, okay, life, obviously,
somebody wants the legacy of an astrologer who's been in
it for almost fifty years, I may as well, and
so I reluctantly did it. And then I had this
amazing ghost writer who made me sound better than I
(10:12):
actually sound, and we had such a rapport. She took
all my classes. She came to the school and really
stood out. She has four planets and Aquarius. She's a genius.
And that was what did it. But to be honest,
and this is what I was excited about, your podcast
is the transparency of a reluctant artist, which is not
the norm. I'm sure you have a lot of writers
(10:33):
on your love to write.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Yeah, we do, But you know, I think writers kind
of I can kind of in my head divide them
into two categories. I've worked with a lot of authors
like you who have because you have a platform, because
you have something to say, because you've already been communicating
about your work. You have people who are paying attention
and just like the story you're sharing, who are like, Hey,
we want you to write a book. We want it
(10:56):
to be about X or X, y Z whatever. The author.
You might be like, you know, either not that interested
in writing that book, or maybe you are interested in
writing that book, but you feel like, well, I'm not
really a writer. I could never put something like that
together and just exactly like the story that you're describing,
you're a reluctant writer for those reasons. Well, then you
have another type of writer, which I would put myself
(11:17):
in this category. I have known since I was young, young, young, young, young,
that I wanted to write. I always wanted to be
a published author. I was always like scribbling away in
notebooks and you know, writing poetry and just writing things
that nobody was ever reading. It was like breathing.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
For me.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Writing was just that easy. But then those writers become
reluctant because we see that there's a whole industry of
writing out there, and we tell ourselves, well, I don't
really have an Instagram following, I don't have a platform.
No one's really listening to me. I'm not on TV.
I don't have that much to add. I guess I'll
just you know, journal quietly by myself. And we talk
ourselves out of sharing our writing beyond just you know,
(11:53):
our own little journal or like maybe with our family
members or whatever. And so what I say is that
the universe aspect to writing is that it is a
tool that's here for us to share our stories, our
thoughts our beliefs with the world around us, which is
like a very human impulse. Every human being, whether they
want a publish or not, has that impulse to share
(12:13):
themselves and share their story.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
With the world.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
But some of us talk ourselves out of it because
we say, well, I'm not really a writer, and others
of us talk ourselves out of it because we say, well,
I don't have a platform, I'm not on TV, whatever
it is. So everyone has their own way of kind
of swirling out of the act of writing. And yet
for me, the reason I love this podcast and love
talking to the listeners on this podcast is because I
believe that writing, just like you're talking about with astrology,
(12:38):
writing is this amazing tool that every single one of
us have access to that we can use to bring
us back to our life and to bring us back
to the agency that we have to shape and change
our lives. And when I got the email about interviewing you,
one of the reasons I was so excited about it because,
like I mentioned, I was in this kind of like
lull where I was like, I don't even know if
I believe in astrology anymore. But one of the reasons
(13:01):
I was so excited to talk to you is I'm like,
maybe astrology is less this predictive element and more this
way to shape and understand ourselves in the world, just
like writing is. Like writing is not like your surefire
ticket to a publishing contract. For me, at least, writing
is about meeting the moment in your life and seeing
(13:21):
yourself more clearly and then sharing that self with the
people around you.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
Everything you said, yes, yeah, I really agree that everything
you said that was so brilliant. It's funny because our
charts are so similar. We're both Gemini with mercury and yeah,
which is a skeptic. That's why I wrote the book. Okay,
astrology is not exclusively for predicting. There are brilliant astrologers
who predict and I'm all over supporting them, But that
(13:48):
is not my specialty, and you saw it my book.
My specialty is you have gremlins who talk shit about
you all day long in the mirror when you're lying
in bed in the middle of the night, and where
is the off button? And the gremlins are specific. You
and I both have Mercury and Taurus to our mercuries,
like where does the mind interrupt the actual truth? And
(14:08):
for you and I, it's all about logic. It's like,
can you just make this real? Is there evidence? Can
you just show me something that's kind of so the thing?
Didn't you told me this was gonna happen to well forget? Yeah,
well that is not so. Knowing that my gremlins are
based on practicality, I had to say that, excuse me,
you need to sit down now. I figured you out.
You've been busted. Now I'm in charge. And once I
(14:31):
did that, my mind became an ally when it's kind
of like a wild kid who doesn't have an off
button because there's no subsion. So astrology at its best
is a psychological I mean it's young said it. The
best psychology will be a dinosaur science until it includes astrology.
Like psychological understanding of your operating system has a code
(14:55):
that you can decode by looking at the chart. And
I have a school where I start like at a
third grade level. Fourth yes, class to school, and at
first you're like, you think you're a kid in class,
and it's really fun because I make everything fun, said
the Gemini. And then by the time you're at the
fourth class, you're like, what just happen? Because you know
why we address your shadow. Yeah, and so I worked
(15:18):
at psychologically. So in the book you get a taste
of it. But in the school, it's a six week class.
There's only ten people in the room, and you get
your chart, comes on the screen and there's a mentor
who studied your chart, and you begin to the second
class is exactly what we're talking about. What mercury? What
thoughts are you having that just through astrology in the bathtub,
(15:40):
in the garage, in the toilet, like, what'd you do
with it? So everyone, you have to pick your medicine,
and this is a medicine that is very soothing. I
would say that the best part of astrology is the
relief that occurs when you realize you're not a mistake,
that exactly what your gremlins saying is untrue. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Yeah. Which reminds me of an exercise that you in
Missing Element, which was your first book, that this is
a like such a great writing assignment, but you gave
this exercise where and I still have I literally pulled
this out for our conversation. I still have the page
where I wrote down my answers to your exercise, something
to the effect of thinking about like who you were
(16:24):
before or you had to be anybody different, and just
writing down some of those words about like how you
were as a child. So I wrote down all of
these words and was realizing that a lot of the
ways that I've adjusted myself to become more acceptable in
the world is yeah, that I've adjusted myself away from
my essential nature because I was called flighty forgetful, you know,
(16:46):
I wrote disorganized, unreliable, idealistic, overly spiritual. So I've almost
like adjusted myself in my life to be more like intellectual.
I wrote down on this list that she's writing poems
when she should be studying.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Calculus, you know.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
So it's like, then I'm realizing, like as an adult,
that I've formulated this whole personality around someone who is
like more studious, more serious, more and there is a
part of me that's that. But as I looked at
this list, I was like, oh, that's the missing element.
That's the part of me that I need to reclaim
in order to be my whole self. And it was
(17:22):
just such an insightful exercise that you offered. I think
everybody should should do that.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
It's so powerful. The missing element. The first book I
wrote there's no astrology in it. I did that on
purpose so that no one that didn't believe in astrology
wouldn't read the book. And it's simply a description of
the four personality types that are based on every single system,
from the enneagram to the human design to the gene keys.
Every single thing is based on astrology, so I use
(17:49):
the four elements. And then the second book was a
deeper dive into astrology, and it was all about astrology,
so I did kind of It's so Gemini. I did
two books. There's no astrology, onelog, go ahead and take
your FIP. And the first if you buy the first
book from my website, I will stick your chart in it,
so I will actually calculate your chart and put it
in and you can and I'll mail it to So
(18:11):
the second book you have to go to Amazon. You
don't need to go to my website. But I did
do astrology secretly inside the book by sending everyone their chart.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Yeah, both books were great, And actually you just brought
up a question that I've had since reading your book,
because I definitely was into the aneagram for a long
period of times. You and I think some of my
listeners have been into the anagram, and I wonder what
the connection was. I mean, there feels like an obvious
connection between aneagram, numerology astrology, but can you explain in
any more detail what that connection is?
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Which I love the anagram? What are you in the anagram?
Speaker 2 (18:42):
A four with a three wing?
Speaker 1 (18:44):
Huh? That makes sense. So in astrology it's so detailed
in the aneagram, it's the Christian mystics that wrote it.
It's based on the same system, which is understanding your
soul's impulse and giving you a permission slip. That's essentially
what at It's like when you were a kid and
you'd go to the teacher and say, can I go
to the bathroom and she'd give you a hall pass
(19:05):
and I'd love memory is so fun, and then you
go outside. Without astrology, the enneagram or the gene kis
certainly and the humans, all of the systems are based
underneath on the elemental description. So the enneagram is really
steeped in that most people don't know how to marry
the two because they're so separated, and people don't want
(19:26):
to learn astrology because it seems so complicated, where the
eddy m my numbers and you study the nine numbers
and you go into depth, but it's not so complicated
the way I teach it. I teach it in a
childlike way.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
I think that's what I was saying at the beginning
of our conversation. Even though astrology is it is complicated,
you know, I can see how that would be an
obstacle for people, But the way that you teach it
really brings it down to earth and helps it helps
me feel like I could engage with this and kind
of in some ways figure out my own chart. I mean, obviously,
like I'm so new at this, You're gonna be able
to see things in my chart that I'm not gonna
(20:08):
be able to see. But I started doing this to
my husband too, who is like maybe even more of
a skeptic than I am. And I'll be like, oh,
that's because you know that's the Taurus and you or
that's your exactly your Satittarius rising or whatever. And it's
the difference between calculus and math.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
So astrology the higher level is calculus. It's so abstract
and it's so mathematic, and the simple version that I
teach is like one plus one equals too, Like you
you have fire, you personally have fire and air. So
if you have fire and air and that's a combustive,
you you add air in the fireplace to the fire
and the fire gets bigger. Well, you add air everywhere
(20:45):
you go. You're like, let me ask you a question.
I just want to. I just was. I just underline
that hold on a thing. Let me just do this up.
So your fire is your primary element, and that's English.
That's simple. I make astrology simple, and I'm fortunately we
nostrology is bad. Pr Like people talk about it like
it's some kind of parlor trick. That's one and then two.
(21:07):
It seems complicated. It's not. But it took me a
long time. I mean, this has been my life's work.
And I'm almost seventy, so it took me fifty years
of doing this over. I mean, it's really funny to
think about when I started and I was in high school.
I just had my fiftieth high school reunion and I
saw all the kids and I knew what their moons
(21:29):
were because when I was in high school, I was obsessed.
So yeah, this life, I had a mission.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
Yeah, this has been calling to you and inviting.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
You and I in love with it. It does never
ever like skeptics are my favorite people because I one
reading for them. And by the way, I don't do reading,
so don't ask me. But I have trained. There's twenty
four people that are certified by me that have gone
through a rigorous training, and I do this thing called
matchmaking where they write in they don't want to take
(21:58):
the class. I wish that everone in the world study,
but they want a proper reading with someone they can trust.
So I do their chart and then I look at
the charts of all my certified astrologias and I matchmake.
It's like one of my favorite things to do because
I want people to see the practical value. Yes, okay,
so to your point, it's not always predictive. It is
(22:18):
assessing your personality.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
So I don't know how much of my personal experience
to share. But that was one of the things that
happened to me that really as an astrologer. I loved her.
She actually taught me so much and helped me to
find my way in astrology. And there were so many
things she said that that held true. But I think
because I was on this quest to build something, to
make something happen, and she kept saying like, yes, all
(22:41):
the stars that are aligning for this, like everything's this
is the perfect moment for this to be happening, and
this to be happening. And she was telling me, you know,
not like exactly this is what's going to happen next,
and this is the dat it's going to happen, but
kind of like that's how I took it. And so
then when that endeavor fell apart, and I suffered quite
a bit from the fall apart, I've had a hard
(23:02):
time making sense of that story in retrospect. And I
wonder if actually, now that I say that, I wonder
if astrology could help me read writing helps you make
sense of it. So could astrology help me reframe what
I experienced?
Speaker 1 (23:14):
This is the distinction between a good astrologer and a
less trained astrologer. Predictive qualities are absolutely dangerous because there
is the free will button, there is the unknown, There
is the lessons that are hidden behind the door that
you had to learn. Because one of your life lessons
clearly is partnering with people in understanding relationships. That's one
(23:38):
of your hardest things. So if part of your lesson
was to be disappointed, and that's in the part, then
why didn't she say that, not that you may yeah,
going to work. But I just aim at the lesson.
I don't aim at the practical concrete. There are certainly
obvious times. I'm thinking of a woman who is now
I think she's twenty nine, but I met her when
(23:58):
she was like fifteen, young girl. Her mother came for
a reading and I looked at her chart and I
was like, oh, oh, this chart. She's gonna be famous,
this girl, definitely, And she ended up becoming the number
one serf girl in all of Hawaii and wow, and
her mom never stopped saying, dever saw this when you
were a teenager. So there's an obvious loud messenger when
(24:19):
the sun is on the mid heaven, there's a clue
about fame. On the other hand, to your point to
say to someone your business is going to be successful
or you're especially when you're collaborating, because that's your big
issue this life. When you're working with people, they will
disappoint you. So that's a psychological truth about human nature,
but it's specifically true to your life. Lesson is how
(24:41):
do you partner without having expectations? Now that's not an
easy quest, and I simply in my astrology. In our school,
we're looking at your purpose, your life lessons, your challenges.
We're not just looking at timing. Although that is a
big part of astrology, it's not my focus.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Okay, So I want to I have a little deeper
into that because if someone's wanting to take a look
at their chart, I mean, I feel like probably most
of my listeners, maybe not every single one, but most
of them. And I know I am in this place
where I know like the basic sun moon rising, but
beyond that, you know, everything that I'm learning in your
book is learning where my mercury is placed, and all
of that stuff is new. So if you were talking
(25:20):
to someone who you know had my preschool understanding astrology,
where would you have me start As far as understanding
like my what you just talked about, like life lessons,
my life purpose.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
The first thing I would look at is your missing
element from the first book, and so you don't have
any water in your chart. So your life lesson is
your emotional body. And when you get caught either in
sadness or disappointment or being able to deal with your
inner world and wanting to not share it because you're secretive,
you're like h do we have to go there? Your
(25:52):
reluctance or your ambivalence about the emotional content of being
human is your one of your big issues. So either
you easily or you don't cry at all? Which is it? Well?
Speaker 2 (26:03):
I cry easily, but I present as very put together,
cool headed, and when really in real life, I'm like
extremely emotional and yeah, and what I'll do is like
if I'm having a day where I'm just feeling like
really down or really, I just shut the world out,
you know, and then when I feel better, then I
re engage.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
Yeah. So this is a classical story of water. When
it's not well developed, it becomes a secret, it stays internal.
This is my first book. The missing element for you
is water, so that you internalize and you secret, you
go off by yourself and you process with a stretch.
Would be for you to start letting the emotion's surface,
share them and tag them, accept them, rather than stuffing
(26:45):
them because it just creates symptoms, any pasical symptom in
the body. I hate to say this, it's so dangerous
is unprocessed emotions. And it's not necessarily like you stubbed
your toe and oh it's not like but when there's
a big symptom that it follows you around in your body,
or it's been a hereditary issue, there's some unfinished processing.
(27:06):
Now can you process and make it go away? Not necessarily.
What you can do if you're missing water is put
your hands on your heart, put your hand on your tummy,
and go what am I feeling all day long? And
then you manage it lifetime, What am I feeling right now?
And it takes a real effort for a Jebedi to
have her attention on her body rather than going off
(27:28):
by yourself and turning everybody away yes and going yeah,
but if you don't share, so your issue is in
There are other people that have water as their issue
and they cry all the time and tell every and
they overshare. They can't do button. So the water is
just swamping them and they're moody and they're addicted because
(27:49):
they're feeling overwhelmed and assaulted by the human experience. So
the missing element we're talking about, and that would be
the first thing in the very first class they would
say to you. So your job would be the day
as a practice, what am I feeling? And once that
becomes a familiar land, this is and we're going to
go through all four of them. In the name of water.
(28:10):
You'll notice that your intuition increases. You pay attention to
being disappointed before it hits the point where there's Niagara falls.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
Yeah, and you see attentive in the moment, and you
become an expert at tracking your own emotional body. And
therefore the symptoms don't required. The reclusion isn't necessary. The ability, yes,
there's a big one for you to ask for what
you want forget about it right now. That's so. There's
the first thing you would learn in our school is so, now,
(28:40):
let's say you're missing air. Let's just use it for
the audience. And how would you know that? You'd have
to go get your chart done. But you can find
out if you can't communicate, You don't use the phone,
You never answer your text, you don't want a date.
You have only a very few people around, and you
think that people aren't interesting, so you don't listen. That's
no air. That's the opposite of me and you. But
they aren't listening to this podcast about writing. Anyone that
(29:03):
doesn't have air, doesn't like to write, doesn't like to read.
They find themselves spaced out a lot. They forget things.
And the road of error is they take all these classes,
all these writing classes, but they never publish because they
don't get things done. Now that's the road of an
excessive amount of air. The high road is, oh, I
figured it out. Like you put your hands on your
heart and your tummy for the water. The air person
(29:25):
makes a list and goes, I have a deadline and
I can't let myself off the hook. And I took
the class and I wrote the notes down and then
I practiced it, and I went and took my reiki
and did it on someone rather than just taking the
yoga class and not because what air people do is
they study all the time and they're all listening to
your show and they don't follow. Yeah, so they would
(29:46):
learn some skills based on our school of what you're
going to do to insert the medicine. If it's Earth
and you're really caught by numbers and money and you're
organizing and you're not good enough and you have this
in your chart deducing enough, you're not making enough what
you're doing, you should be. You should is the operative word.
Then there's medicine for that. Oh. The mounter is I
(30:08):
always get things done. Yeah, and I trust myself. Now
that's not true for most earth people. They don't think
they're getting everything done, and they don't trust themselves. So
I ab cert medicine and Earth people are bound by shoulds,
productivity and not making enough money. They're big thing is
they should be making money. You have this one in space,
and then the third last category is fire. And if
(30:30):
you're missing fire, you've stopped having fun, you stopped having orgasms,
you stopped working out, you stopped going to the gym.
And you think you want to because when you were
young you were so athletic, but now you've thrown that
all to the wind and you're not doing any physical activity.
And therefore one of the side effects of not having fire,
which you have quite a bit, is they get really
disappointed in life and grumpy, so that the people that
(30:52):
go everybody's so miserable. I hate they say all these
miserable things, and they say him loud, and they tell
everyone politics and their point of view and how stupid
the other party is, like would you stop? And the
medicine for fire is there is an off button, and
it's called knowing when to stop. Now, a fire person
who's just like ready to get pissed off or or
(31:13):
so shut down. They lost their fire and they're miserable.
There's this button called stop and recalibrate. I call it
the observer. But when you're missing an element, it's the
most unnatural thing in the world. If I said to
you you have to cry in front of people, You're
like no, like that, it's not yes. But you have
(31:34):
to learn. And this is called ebene and growing and
why we go to therapy.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
And yeah, I mean you put the nail right on
the head. And it also it actually answers my question
about how do I recontextualize or reframe the experience that
I had with that astrology, because I think a lot
of what's unfolded in the last fighters of my life
has been about overwhelming me with such sadness and loss
that I can't anymore. Like in order to hide it,
(32:01):
I realized in the last couple of years I would
have to completely remove myself from the world. There's just
been so much loss. So it's like I have to work,
I have to keep showing up, I have to get
on Instagram, I have to do the podcast, and I
can't just fake it, fake it, fake it, fake it,
fake it forever. And so it's like, I'm it's almost
like the overwhelm was on purpose so that I could
(32:22):
no longer ignore exactly.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
Got you nailed it. And when loss, when water is
the topic, the vulnerability, which is what water is because
it's tears, the vulnerability of water is disclosing, I'm scared.
I'm so sad, I'm lonely. I understand why I got
left out. I don't know why that death happened. I
(32:46):
never got over it. It's it's the permission. And I
as a therapist, you know, I celebrate. It's so bad
that I celebrate people's pain. It's terrible to see. I mean,
as soon as someone comes in as a client who's
really in a deep state of leftovers, I call it
like the ghosts that never went away. Okay, now I
have a because I can really help you. Yes, And
(33:09):
that's what a good astrology session does. It's not just talking.
It's activating the emotions, questioning people's thoughts. It's giving them
permission to see how accomplished they are by looking at
the check I can see in your chart, like your
writing is compulsive, and that makes me excellent at it
because it's coming out of your heart. But you don't
(33:31):
see you know, people that are listening, you, all you
writers out there who love it. You can't measure your
success by being published. Yeah that's ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
Yeah, Or you can, but you you it will break
your heart because and I think that's some of what's
happened in my career. Some people would look at my
career and be like, she's been so successful. I've really written,
you know, I've written four of my own books. I've
ghost written ten for other people. And I mean, I've
done my books have done well in the marketplace in
compar like in the spectrum. But and you were mentioning
this about my chart too, like whatever I do, it's
(34:02):
never good enough for me. So in my head, I'm like,
I've put all this effort in, I've put all this
work in, and I've never been on the New York
Times list. I've never you know, hit the Wall Street Journalist.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
It's called moon and Capricorn. That's the way your emotional
bodies earth. And you're measuring your emotional success by results,
and that's not accurate. It's not the right answer. It
doesn't serve you. And until you rewrite the narrative that
you're hard drive is operating with the narrative that says
practicality describes success.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
Yeah, it's like you were saying at the beginning of
the call, it's like, if I can't point to it,
it doesn't feel real to me. And so it's like,
you know, I can get messages all day long from
people who say your words change my life. Thank you
so much, You've had such an impact on me. But
it's like, but I'm not on the New York Times
list yet. And it's funny because, like so much of
my teaching to people is about, like, don't worry about
the numbers, don't worry about who's reading. Just write with
(34:55):
passion right from your heart. And I believe that. But
then there's this other part of me that it says, like, no, no.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
Your mercury is in Earth and Taurus, your emotional bodies
in Capricorn and Earth and Earth. People need results. Until
it's what I said earlier about Earth, until you start
repeating over and over again, I always get things done.
And there's another mantra for Earth, and I'm much I'm
doing much better than I think. Yeah, but you know,
it's it's a real the medicine. That's why I think
(35:33):
of the book. I don't believe in astrology as medicine
is this human psyche is built to be mean to itself, don't. Yeah,
it's such a bad design.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
It's so true. Yeah, it's there's so many different ways
that we do that to ourselves. And yeah, I was
just thinking too about how you wrote about a moon
in Capricorn. That Capricorn is a tricky placement for moon.
I think you said because Capricorn is so I set it.
But it's so earth centered and yet illnatant. The man
is meant to be your emotional body. So it's like
(36:06):
if you have their like a contradiction to one another.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
And so and so you guys, everyone listening. Your chart
tells me what you came to learn. Now, the question
is are you learning it? I mean, that's a different conversation.
But I'm telling you now and taking level one, and
all you got to do is just take level one.
And our school opens in September, and jail only twice
a year, September and January. J So there's one coming
up in January. It's just such a permission slip. It's
(36:32):
it's like the I get to watch, particularly women because
our school is almost ninety eight and my company, the
women that teach are all women. There's such a comfort
for me as a business owner because I too miss
the New York Times, and I too like so what,
But I have Mercury Tours just like you. So I
(36:53):
have goals that are concrete, and I have written, and
I'm like you. I've written and written and written, and
I keep it at a drawer most of the time.
I yeah, I had a horrible You're gonna this is
an unbelievable story. So, like you, I've been writing since
I was a kid. I kept it in a joy,
never shared. It was always a secret for me. I
kept it in my computer for hundreds of years. And
(37:15):
then about two years ago, I had a computer that
I was giving away to a friend because she needed
one and I was getting a new one. And I
didn't know that on the iCloud there's one button a
warning that if someone unplugs that button, every single thing
in your cloud is gone. And she did it, but
she didn't go and I didn't know. And then when
(37:36):
I went to come back to my computer, and it
was every single thing I wrote was gone, and I
literally cried like a like someone had died and my
kids were one of my kids, and he was like,
and I'm a grown up and he's a grown up
and he was like, mom, get it together. I was
like no. And after happened, which took a long time
to get over, I realized it was a gift in disguise,
(38:00):
ego to reduce the memory of being someone special at
the writing secret world and start putting it out when
I had it, And so, yeah, I've changed. But that
was I hardly ever tell that story because it's so
to OUs. Geminis what a tragedy.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
Tragedy it is. I feel that in my bones. I
think I would sob for days of something.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
I was absolutely I know it was such a funny
thing because I was literally and I'm sorry that they
had to hear it. I was literally wailing. Yeah, And
then you know, it's so interesting, like here's one of them.
I had written poems when I was a kid that
I had memorized. One of them was this one Once
upon a time when time was out of the question.
(38:41):
Once was all it took to learn a lesson, just once.
Speaker 2 (38:45):
That's gorgeous.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
I was a little person and it came.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
I mean, it's mind blowing to me. And I have
little kids. I have an almost four year old in
the five year old, and like the way that they're
connected to the truth of themselves and also to the
truth of the universe and the stuff that comes through
their mouths. And then hearing that you wrote that when
you were tiny and the same same type of thing.
I mean, I started writing when I was very young,
and I think back now to the things that I
(39:10):
wrote back then, and sometimes, you know, life is so
hard on us. I don't know if that's the right
way to say it, but I just feel like the loss,
the heartbreak, the challenges, the whatever, you know, you lose
track of that part of you that's five still that
like trusts so deeply trust that everything's going to be fine.
And so I don't know, hearing you recite that poem
(39:31):
just as like a way of connecting back to that
version of ourselves.
Speaker 1 (39:34):
And I remembered I have like five of those in
my head that never went away, that were from when
I was Yeah, that was a good news.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
That you know, it speaks to to also the loss,
the deep loss of losing all of those writings. That's
part of the grief, I think is it's like the
connection to that part of ourselves that was so connected
to the universe.
Speaker 1 (39:56):
I'm I would say, I'm still connected. I have child
life in a big way. Nobody believes I'm going to
seventy and you know, I'm a year and a half away.
And I think part of the gift of being a
Gemini I don't have Capricorn is that I have never lost.
I mean, it's almost silly. I wake up every day
(40:19):
with like, like the colors, I'm looking at the colors
in my room, look at the art like I am.
I am in rapture, but that is my kid. Yeah.
I don't know what happened to me. I think I
ate the wrong thing or somehow, or I got the
wrong chart or something's wrong because I did not. I
did not demonstrate the release of the innocence of seeing
(40:41):
every day brand new. I'm you know, in the Tourot deck,
I'm teaching the tureau right now on.
Speaker 2 (40:48):
Yeah, I noticed that on you on your email list.
Speaker 1 (40:50):
So yeah, And the first card of the Turot Deck,
the very first card is the Fool, and the fool
is the kid that jumps off a cliff. That to
your point, that just like so innocent, and that is
how I start the deck is you were an idiot
to sign up to come here because you didn't get
any instructions. They gave us nothing. And there's a fool
(41:11):
of innocence that can say willingly, I'm so confused and
this is so silly, and I don't really understand all
those lines. I don't understand that I need help, which
is one of your big lessons, the little fool going
uh oh I j if I forgot to bring my juice?
Can someone? Can you help me? And that innocence of
(41:32):
the fool. It's the same thing with writing. It took me.
I know this is probably true for you. I took
so many of those writing classes where you write and
then you read for like before I ever wrote the
first book, and it helped me so much. Be the
fool to say I.
Speaker 2 (41:49):
Don't yeah, I mean writing even if you're if you're
tactically trained as a writer, even still writing and publishing,
your work has to have some of that energy to it.
You have to uh, almost like a naivete that I'm
going to just throw this out in the world and
people are gonna connect or respond or whatever. I love
that childlikeness about you. I think it's one of the
things that has drawn me to you, into your work,
(42:10):
and I wish I had more of that in my
life because.
Speaker 1 (42:12):
You're moons in Campricorn. You're an old who's very practical
and grounded. I can't say the same. I mean I might,
but I had to learn. See, that's the missing element.
I had to You came with Earth, and that's that's
a burden because you feel uber responsible and you're never
good enough. I didn't come with it. I had to
go look at that, and that's what the Missing book,
the Missing Element really helped me when I figured out
(42:34):
my missing element and then which was Earth, and then
cultivated it and went, oh, and you're right, it's burdensome.
I see the veil, the downside of Earth. I can see. Yeah,
you're like, why is always not good enough?
Speaker 2 (42:47):
And just I take everything so seriously, you know, like
I wish I could just be like, not be so
serious about it, like the fool. Yeah, a little bit
of that would be would be nice.
Speaker 1 (42:56):
You can cookivate it. That's why my school's here. And hew,
you're welcome to come.
Speaker 2 (43:00):
Allie, I'm I'm going to join in fact, and if
you can send me a link or have your team
send me a link, I'll include it in the show notes,
and you know, we'll specifically invite students to join us too.
Because when I heard you talking about it, I was like,
this is a no brainer for me. I've been wanting
to learn.
Speaker 1 (43:13):
I've been learning, and you all learn it. You're going
to be so surprised because of your we you and
I both have tours. The simplicity of it is what's
going to feed you. And then the complication of understanding
your kids. Yeah, that's where the tires hit the ground.
When we understand our children's charts, it's a life changer.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
Oh, I'm so excited for that. I'm because, yeah, I mean,
understanding them is so essential to being the container in
which they grow up in a ball.
Speaker 1 (43:45):
When my son, here's my best story. When my son
came home. He was in like seventh grade, and he
came home and he looked terrible. I was like, what
happened to you? And he was like, all the teachers
put me in a circle and they got really mad
at me, and I said, what did you do? And
he said, well, I hit the today. I was like,
you are a double Eries. You didn't hit the bully.
Who was going to hit the bully if not a
(44:06):
double Eries? And if not you yeah, And then he's like, wait,
you're not mad. I was like, no, somebody had to
hit the bully.
Speaker 2 (44:13):
I think, did you tell that story in The Missing Element?
I feel like I recognize that story, but it's Yeah.
Just the reason I love the story and love what
you're saying is it's the feeling of giving yourself permission
to be who you are and to not always have
to morph and change to be more acceptable and pleasing
to those around you, which I feel like I do
have done a fair bit of in my life. But yeah,
(44:33):
like making that list that I made as I was
reading The Missing Element, I was like, some of you know,
I could stand to bring back some of that, like
flighty forgetful writing poetry version of myself.
Speaker 1 (44:45):
Here, let me tell you the good news before we
finish here. Because we're about done. Moon and Capricorn gets
better as they get older, okay, and because they get
fed up with the disappointment, and because they get fed
up with not being good enough, they said, go throw
their hands in their ear and go, look that's what
happens age really well, that fits.
Speaker 2 (45:07):
I feel like I'm getting there. It's like it's too
tiring to you know, to live that way anymore, so
we'll move on.
Speaker 1 (45:14):
To the night. I agree completely, it's too tiring. For
God's sake. Why do we have to be that person
that's oh no, man at themselves for doing everything right?
It doesn't now And I really want to just echo
when my book came out, and there's going to be
a soft cover coming out next year, which I'm going
to do another book launch, and they and I swear
to you, I spent too much money aiming because my
(45:38):
Mercury's and tourist for the New York Times, which of course,
and I really had to meet something in myself to
your point where I said to myself, Deborah, you wrote
this book with everything I had. I mean, I gave
it everything I am. Yeah. Yeah, And writing a book
is like having a baby times ten. A baby is
(45:58):
nothing compared to writing a book. And so I had
to really catch myself right after I spent all that
money and call myself up, which I was on the
way in. I kept saying, is this my ego, and
the answer was.
Speaker 2 (46:13):
Yes, Yeah, I'm just right there with you. I know
that feeling so well of putting you not only emotionally
put everything on the table, but then financially put everything
on the table, and to have it not pan out
is always disappointing.
Speaker 1 (46:24):
Now I want to read your books. I'm going to
find your books.
Speaker 2 (46:26):
Well, I'll send you copies, give me, send me your
or have your teams send good putting it. Yeah, send
me your your mailing address and I'll send you all
my books.
Speaker 1 (46:34):
Oh, I'm so excited.
Speaker 2 (46:36):
I'm happy to get to share them with you. And
and I just I love your work so much and
I'm just so inspired by you. And I am going
to be joining your program in January because it's been
something It's just a no brainer for me. It's been
something that I've been wanting to learn more about anyway.
I've seen you launch it before, I've thought about joining before,
and for whatever reason, I haven't done it. So that's
the time, and we'll put I'll foot links in the
(46:58):
show notes for listeners to do that and for both
your books. Is there anything else that you want me
to link to or talk about?
Speaker 1 (47:05):
You know, I think the biggest is the school is
where the power is. It's only six weeks and it's
only like a two hour You're on zoom with only
ten people, so it's super intimate, and that is my
I love getting the gifts, it's funny. And the emails
after and the mail people mail me things. Yes, it's
like people's husbands write me back and say, she's so
(47:28):
much happier. Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (47:30):
That's so amazing.
Speaker 1 (47:31):
I love that. Oh cool.
Speaker 2 (47:34):
Well, thank you so much for chatting with us and
sharing your wisdom. And I'm looking forward to learning more
from you and I will definitely send some of my
books your way. And I'm just so grateful to be
able to introduce you to our listeners. I know they're
going to learn so much from you too, So thanks
for your trying.
Speaker 1 (47:47):
Here's a secret. You'll be the first time telling this too.
We haven't told anyone this yet. In twenty twenty six,
I am picking twenty two women that I am going
to personally train because I stopped teaching ten years ago,
and they'll be going through a rigorous program to become
an astrologer. So if anyone's yeah, all you have to
do is write to info at Deborah Silverman Astrology and
(48:08):
say I want to be one of those. We're gonna
vet them, We're gonna look at their charts and we're
gonna see like, who has moon and camprigor here's the
upside chart? Who will seriously do the tower? And you
would get all a's.
Speaker 2 (48:20):
Yes, yeah, you know for sure, for sure that if
I tell you I'm gonna be somewhere, I am one
hundred percent going to be there exactly.
Speaker 1 (48:27):
Thank so, I will see you in January. Yeah, okay,
thank you so much. I'd love it. I'm person.
Speaker 2 (48:33):
Thank you, oh, thank you for everything. Appreciate you
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