Andor Season 2 (Episodes 7-9) Recap

Jason and Rosie take center stage at the Galactic Senate to recap the third batch of episodes in Andor season two.

Jason’s Movie List: Andor Season 2 Syllabus, or How to Resist an Empire

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Warning today's episode Canadid's spoilers for and Or episodes two,
O seven, two eight, and two nine.

Speaker 2 (00:20):
Hello.

Speaker 1 (00:21):
My name is Jason Concepcion Han on Mersey Night and
welcome back to x ray Vision of the podcast where
we dive deep. It's your favorite shows, movies, comics and
pop culture. Covery from iHeart Podcast will bring you three
huge episodes a week Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday plus.

Speaker 2 (00:37):
In today's episode and Or and the creators Tony Gilroy
were obviously inspired by our three episodes a week because
they too are dropping three episodes a week, and this
week it is episodes seven, eight and nine, And if
you can believe it, it's just getting better.

Speaker 1 (00:51):
Basically getting every.

Speaker 3 (00:52):
Chapter is getting better.

Speaker 2 (00:54):
This is some of the best TV that we've gotten
all year and probably will stand as that.

Speaker 3 (00:58):
So let's talk about it.

Speaker 1 (01:02):
Episode seven and Or season two we open a year
after episode six. It is now bby two. The Rebel
base that I know, we're so close. The Rebel base
at Yavin is a hub of activity. Ships are gathering powered.
We should add by the Crydo stolen by Saugre's cell.

(01:24):
Willman arrives on the planet Cassian and Bickx are already there.
They're camping in the woods. Willman comes in to break
up there snogging. They've been clearly spending some you know,
like some personal time together, which is wonderful. Their love
affair is only growing and deepening, and they welcome him
back into the fold. Cassian has been injured at some point,

(01:46):
has been hit by a blaster and the shoulder, and
Cassie wants to know what where Will has been, what
he been working on, and Will says that he doesn't
answer right away, but he says Luthan wants to know
if you're ready to again. Are you ready to go
back into the field, And apparently Cassian has been ignoring
Lutheran's calls. As the rebellion is really beginning to look

(02:10):
like a real thing here on Yeavin.

Speaker 2 (02:13):
It's has to look like what we see in other
Star Wars movies.

Speaker 1 (02:16):
Yeah, Cassian has kind of been caught up in that
energy and also like, I think, happy to spend time
just with Bicks.

Speaker 2 (02:25):
Yeah. And the place where they're staying is so beautiful.
It's kind of this mixture between like a treehouse and a.

Speaker 3 (02:32):
Yum and nice, so calm.

Speaker 2 (02:36):
It's so good it's very cozy, and I understand why,
and also Cassian feels like he's done enough.

Speaker 1 (02:41):
You know.

Speaker 2 (02:42):
I also think this is really interesting because we've been
talking about Will's evolution and how far he's gone every year,
and you got to remember, this is a guy who
was on Ferix, who was basically a kid who until
the funeral in the final episodes of season one, had
he ever really done anything. Before he throws that grenade,
he becomes part of the rebellion, he becomes part of

(03:04):
Cassian's family. But here we see that Cassian is so
out of the Luthen loop that now essentially his younger
brother is the one who's giving him commands from Luthen.
So lots has changed here, but it's clear that Cassian
is becoming tired of the fight.

Speaker 1 (03:18):
Cassian suggests, like that Luthen come and see what's happening
on Yavin, because you know, they've been working towards us
so long. But Luthen's like, you know, this is a
security risk, like people are showing up all the time.
We don't know who these people are. Luthen's not gonna come,
and Cassian says, basically like I think I'm done sneaking around,
shooting people in the back in the dark. The fight

(03:41):
is going to happen in the broad daylight. Now with
the alliance, the rebel Alliance starting to strengthen, and I
want to do that, we go to Gorman. It's even
worse than it was a year ago. Of course, tensions
are rising. Imperial propaganda has been very effective at branding
the Gorman Front as terrorism. Palmo is under curfew, Cyril

(04:02):
is there, but his he's the Front knows he's an
Imperial double agent, but he's still trying to like make
stuff happen somehow. He's Yeah, he's a desperate figure.

Speaker 2 (04:18):
He's very desperate. He's hated by the Front everybody. He's
not particularly trusted by the ISB, and he's trying to
find ways in his own twisted way to help the Front.
He like he's obsessed with this idea of an outside agitator.

Speaker 3 (04:34):
Yes, we'll talk more about soon.

Speaker 1 (04:36):
This is the life of a rat let. All rats
be warned.

Speaker 2 (04:40):
Yeah, this is what they this is what the show
is telling us. Is like, it is an unhappy place
to betray people. It is a lonely place to take
part in rat activities like this, like Tony is saying,
snitches get stitches, and maybe those are the stitches of
your autopsy.

Speaker 1 (04:59):
You more on that in a bit. So Will has
been on Gorman, That's where he's been, and he lets
Cassie know this. Cassian thinks this is a waste, thinks
everything that's happening on Gorman is going to be They're
just wasting lives there on you know, get standing in
front of the Imperial tank and as the treads just
roll over people like, what's the point Luthan's next mission.

(05:23):
Will tells Cassian is Deirdre. She is the butcher of Feryx,
is on Gorman, running a false flag, running this whole
false flag operation. This is our chance to take her
off the board, and let's go kill her. That's what
Luthan wants to do. This is their best chance. We

(05:44):
go to Coruscant, part of gas Is, we go to Gorman.
Deirdre's on Gorman, zooming with part of gas He is like, listen,
I would just talked to the Emperor. He plaque fucking
loves love. Keep we gotta keep going with it. And
by the way, we looked around the galaxy, we can't

(06:05):
find any synthetic cal kite out there, so we're gonna
have to mind Gorman for its cal kite, which of
course means the utter destruction of Gorman. And so we
need martial law, we need all that stuff. Deirdre, you're
running point on this. We're sending Captain Kaido, who is
a specialist in crisis. They call him their their crisis specialist.

(06:29):
And Deirdre is stressed out by all this and she
kind of doesn't want to go through with it. She's
having second or even third thoughts about like what her
what her role in this is, and what it means
to Gorman. And part of guys is like, don't worry,
don't don't worry. This is you're gonna get. This is
great for your career promotion. The Emperor has its eyes

(06:51):
on this as a project he believes in, and you're
running point on it. This is great for you. And
then she's like, well you should know that the front
the rebels have weapons armed, and Party goes is like, good,
that's what we want.

Speaker 3 (07:02):
Yeah, that's what we need all that war.

Speaker 1 (07:05):
Cyril comes to see Deirdre, he like basically has to
break into the so the imperial offices because security is like, again,
this is a lonely, isolated, desperate figure. He's been cut
loose by everybody, and he just feels like he's not
in the loop and he wants to be in the loop,
especially with Deirdre's someone who is a really disgusting but

(07:28):
strong emotional connection too. He's like, what you know, the
rebellion is active here, and why can't I do more? Like, uh,
the outside agitators are firing everybody up, and I feel
like I can, you know, like I can be useful
to like expose that. Andre's like, Cyril, shut the fuck up,
go pack your bags. Okay, we're almost done here, just

(07:51):
shut up and get ready to fly off the planet,
and then they kiss and she orders him to do
as told.

Speaker 2 (07:57):
It's definitely interesting too because Deirdre gets she's her kind
of mission. This chapter is like, she's just focused on
We're gonna get to go home no matter what. We
have to just do anything so me and Cyril can
get to go home. And it's like, Babe, what are
you going home to? You're not gonna be able to
run from what You'll do?

Speaker 1 (08:14):
Yes, Encoruscant Imperial spying on senators is increasing, especially the
ones who they believe aren't with the program. Man Mathma
is her assistant Erskine, who we saw speaking to Luthen
two years ago at the wedding party, and her are

(08:38):
discussing this and the fact that her driver is clearly
spying on her. She's like, I gotta fire this guy,
and Erskin is like, no, no, don't fire him because
he's incompetent. The next guy might be good.

Speaker 2 (08:49):
She's crazy, but I love that, right, Just this guy sucks,
Just like, just keep him on because you know, you
know what's going on. Don't get tricked by a bast by.

Speaker 1 (09:01):
The news on Coursant is just Gorman, Gorman, Gorman, and
it's full on war on terror propaganda about how terrible
the Gores are and the rebellion there and all this.
Mathma arrives at the Senate and it's bad news after
bad news. Senator Oron of Gorman is like, things are
getting worse, We're getting we're isolated. The lies are really

(09:23):
taking a toll, and it's clear that Senator Oron is like,
he's just desperate now, he doesn't you know, he's like
the only person he could talk to. Basically, the whole
building is Man, and Man is like, well, you know,
like I'm going to put in a petition, but you know,
and it's clear that she wishes she could do more,
but like even doing this is very brave and right.

Speaker 2 (09:42):
Right now in the space, she's doing what she can publicly, yes,
which is a big deal.

Speaker 1 (09:48):
And Oran's like, just be careful to protect yourself On Gorman,
the Front is at each other's throat and each other's throats, but.

Speaker 2 (09:57):
Like having a figure is in the lost gen definitely
come a little further, but they are still fighting, and they're.

Speaker 1 (10:04):
Having how really vigorous debates about strategy and tactics and
how to how to be more active about what's going on.
Someonet to be more active, someone will be more careful. Rylands,
who was so gung ho a year ago ahead of
the transport heist, is now one of the more let's
be careful voices because having seen the toll of this

(10:27):
now now he's like, you know, it's a room full
of young people, including his daughter, and he's wanted to
see them all die. And one of the Gorman Front
makes members makes a really important speech about their shared
history and their culture and how they're being wiped out
and now's the time to really try and do something,
whatever that means.

Speaker 2 (10:47):
It's very interesting too, because Ryland's is definitely learning from
Cassian and Luthan, because what he really wants is for
everyone to do everything under the cover of darkness.

Speaker 4 (10:57):
He wants to not fall for the obvious.

Speaker 1 (11:00):
Perial try, don't fall for the trap, don't do the
thing they want, do the thing you want to do,
like I know it feels like you need to do
this right now, but don't do the thing they're looking for.

Speaker 4 (11:09):
And it's really sad to see, say how all.

Speaker 2 (11:13):
He's listened to, but also sad to see how, you know,
his ideals have kind of been broken over the loss.

Speaker 1 (11:20):
It's like, yeah, complete sadly Gorman is at the point
where you're they're going to lose. It's clearer, but it's
is it not. The argument you're having with yourself is like,
isn't it better to do something and to be seen
to be doing something then and to like grasp onto

(11:41):
some shred of honor for your culture and your people,
rather than have it be said that you just got
rolled over and did nothing. You know, even though you
lose both outcomes on Yavin bis Kind of tricks casting
into going to see the Force healers.

Speaker 3 (11:59):
Man, this made me.

Speaker 1 (12:00):
This is this is this is like such an unexpected
and incredible scene.

Speaker 2 (12:05):
Just an unbelievable Star Wars moment that we've never really
gotten to see before. And I was just so overwhelmed
by the entire scene and the introduction, the light introduction
of the Force, something that was never you know, meant
to be a part of Rogue one, though.

Speaker 4 (12:23):
Of course we had Force adjacent.

Speaker 2 (12:25):
Characters like Chirum Bays, But yeah, this what a scene.

Speaker 1 (12:30):
Yeah, this was important, I think because I love the Jedi,
have my criticisms. We we know, but like ideology is
only one way of viewing the Force, and clearly there
are lots of other ways, right, and we're seeing this
so uh Bis tries to givince Cassian to let them

(12:50):
help him. He feels set up, like were you taking
me here for this hocus focus? Like bullshit. The Force Healer,
who is working on somebody else like, immediately feels Cassian's
pain without knowing that he had arrived in the crowd,
and she goes over to him and she talks to
him a little bit. She knows that he's been hitting
the shoulder, she puts her hands over it and goes

(13:12):
to work on him, and then she like is like,
thank you for the clarity, which I took to mean
like the moral clarity of Cassian and what he is doing.

Speaker 2 (13:21):
I agree, And I also think I think she can
feel that they're gonna win this mission, that she knows
what's gonna happen in Rogue, but in this very deep
seated place where she kind of can't really tell, but
she just knows this man is important and if he

(13:43):
stays in the fight, we are going to be able
to win.

Speaker 3 (13:45):
She just knows that.

Speaker 1 (13:47):
She says, he's to Bis. You know, he's a messenger.
There's one place he needs to be, which again I
take to be Rogue one. Foreshadowing back on Gorman, Cyril
goes encounters Enza ry Lance's daughter in the street and
he tries to say, like, oh, the Empire is convinced

(14:08):
it is the front, but listen, I know that it's
outside agitators that are doing this. You get them, and
she slaps and walks off again, which is nice because
when people say outside agitators, I too want to slap them. Well,
you know, it's like this is it's so fascinating because Cyril,
where are you from? Are you from Gorman?

Speaker 3 (14:31):
Why are you here? Are you not?

Speaker 1 (14:33):
Not a thing that you are talking about? And it
just shows like how people, It's such a wonderful encapsulation,
how people can get so lost in their own in
their own personal propaganda that they don't even realize like
what it is that they are doing. Later, back on Yavin,
Cassian's shoulder is improving and I told you what I

(14:54):
tell you, And Cassian is like he doesn't believe in
the forest and all the force hokum. Cassians getting ready
to leave for the Coruscant mission, so he goes to
grab a ship off the docks and General Draven, future
hero of the rebellion, he will he will perish on

(15:15):
Scariff with all the other rebels. Is like, you can't
just take ships and like don't log it in and
don't tell anybody where you're going, Like why do you
never check in? Like you're a professional, Yeah, we're a
professional army. Like I know that you've are doing other
things and that you're have been with a rebellion a
long time, but like we need to start acting like

(15:36):
a professional army. I'm so glad that they put these
tensions in between me too, these kind of the freewheeling
life of a spy when the resistance was completely underground,
to the more like, we've got to build up our
legitimacy as a thing that could truly, not just militarily

(15:57):
but politically, be a you know, antidote to the Empire.
And I think it's really important, which Raven is saying,
even though they're.

Speaker 2 (16:05):
I agree, and I think I'm arguing very telling that
Cassian's basically like, no, the moment someone tells me what
to do.

Speaker 1 (16:12):
I'm out.

Speaker 2 (16:13):
And I'm like, this is the battle between what Cassian,
why Cassian is great at what he does, but also
why his road is going to take him where it
takes him, because he's so centrally focused on the mission
and he's been so molded by Lutheran that he can't

(16:34):
really see the future. He can't see a better future.
What he can see is like the steps to take
that so other people might get to experience it, and
he's already done so much and we really feel that
weight on him in these three episodes.

Speaker 1 (16:48):
Back on Yavin, Velle is in camp. Now she comes
to see book. She says like, I'll be around it
for a while. I'm training. I'm out of the field,
and I'm I'm training the new recruits. She says that, listen,
you should know that there's a lot of tension vis
a vis Cassian right now because he's one of the

(17:10):
most experienced fighters that we have and so Draven uh
future heroes of the Rebellion generals Draven and Dodnna. I
would like to make him a general. I mean, we've
seen you don't have to do that much in the
rebellion to immediately become a general.

Speaker 3 (17:30):
They just given everyone.

Speaker 1 (17:36):
Everybody will be a general, and Cassian really, you know,
they would they need his leadership and him just taking
ships and leaving like it makes it hard to think
about making him a leader in that way, and he's
really needed. And Velle, for her part, is thrilled to
be out of the shadows. She's like really happy to

(17:56):
be part of a proper professional army now, and she
wants Bicks to convince Cassian that he should put away
the kind of like his shadow cloak and come into
the light and be part of this force because people
will really look up to him. The Imperial Curfew goes

(18:17):
into an effect on Gorman. Cassian arrives and he's like,
holy shit, like things are really crazy now. Will points
out the office building where Deirdre's been operating out of.
Cassian checks into the hotels. The guy who checks him
is the same guy who was his bell hop when
he was under the variant Sky identity, and the guy

(18:40):
clearly recognizes them, and there's these wonderful there's another one
of these later on in this episodes we're talking about.
But I love the contrast between the rat with power
Cyril and the everyday person who's using whatever small amount
of agency they have to try and stop the machine.

(19:02):
And so this guy is one of these regular people
who's doing what they can and tells Cassian basically while
not blowing his cover, but letting him know, hey, I
remember you from last time. He's like, oh, your room
is going to be right on the square, which usually
people don't like. And by the way, every morning, we
have to give the list of all of our all

(19:24):
of our the people who stay here to the Empire,
just so you know that.

Speaker 2 (19:28):
And he has another woman sitting by and by the desk,
and he kind of lets Cassian know like she will Hondo. Yes,
So it's happening like there's no getting out of it,
Like she's going to hand it over, so you better
be out all cathful.

Speaker 1 (19:41):
So Cassie goes up to his room and he can
see right into the Imperial offices. Meanwhile, Will who listen.
Rebellion is a thing of passion and hope, and he's
always fallen in love with somebody. So he's got a
new girlfriend, Drina, a young lady of the front. He
makes con tech with Cassian, and Cassian's unpacking his sniper

(20:02):
rifle and it's clear like his while this is going
to be a very tough mission. There's snipe, there's stormtroopers everywhere,
on the roofs everywhere. It seems like Cassian's plan is
like I'm gonna hit Deirdre as she walks across the
square or in her office. Let's take a break and
we'll go to episoding.

Speaker 2 (20:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (20:33):
No, we're back. Episode A, We're back. We're in Gorman.
It's the next morning. Cassian puts his rifle together. Then
he hears a commotion on the square and the Imperials
are sealing it off. They're getting ready for something big.
On the Square, So Cassian tells Will and he says, listen,
I'm not going this Plan A is not really gonna work.

(20:54):
We're gonna have to figure something out. Deirdre calls Party
Gaz and she's increasingly alarmed. Mining hardware is already here.
What's going on now? This like Captain Kaito is doing
this fucking shit on the square and like, what is happening?
Party guys is like, now is it time to incite
a violent reaction from the Gorman so we could crack down?
That's what? What did you fucking think? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (21:15):
Like this was the planol along, babe, Like yeah, like
in that since the beginning?

Speaker 1 (21:19):
What did you fucking think? Meanwhile, back on course, on
Edie's watching the Imperial News with growing alarm for what
it means for her beautiful baby boy rat who lives.

Speaker 4 (21:32):
Has been a beautiful baby rat gormant Uh.

Speaker 1 (21:36):
Protesters now are beginning to flock to the Square and
talk of like a general strike and yeah, we're gonna
go there in peacefully protest. Papa Rylands is like, no, no, no,
We're being lured into a trap. This is so many
people are gonna die, and he argues with his daughter,

(21:56):
like about like don't you see, like, what's what they
want you to do this? So don't do the thing
that they want. And she's like, well, how can we
you know, how can we how do we do nothing?
How can I tell these people to do nothing? And
as the crowds grow, you could see that there's members
of the Front armed who are among the protesters. Cassian

(22:18):
goes down there because he's going to have to improvise.
He puts his gun under his coat. Rylands see Cyril
in the crowd and he confronts him and he's like,
how dare you rat walk a walk among us after
all you've done? In Cyril again is try to say, look, no, listen,
I'm sorry, but like I have a lot of information.

Speaker 2 (22:38):
Guys.

Speaker 1 (22:38):
Yeah, I know it's not outside agitators and like and
I know, you just get them to believe it. There's
all these lies out there, and it's these outside you're
saying that there's mine equipment here and all this stuff.
And Ryland's asks Cyril, what do they want from us?
What do they want from the stuff out of the ground,
Like why, why? Why is the mining equipment here? What

(23:00):
do you want from us? And Cyril clearly is for
as much as he seems in this moment to be empathizing,
In is in a completely mistaken way with the front.
I also think what he's trying to do is like
prove to Deirdre, like, look, I can still get information,
Like let me back in to the loop. Cassian, as

(23:22):
he's checking out the clerk, tells him, PS, I never
checked you in. I didn't put you on them. Yeah,
I didn't put you on.

Speaker 3 (23:28):
The gumming up that system, gumming up that machine.

Speaker 1 (23:31):
And he then tells him Jinn's line from Rogue one
that rebellions are built on hope, and they wish each
other well and they head off things. The square, all
the while is getting more intense. Tie fighters now or
buzzing the square. Cassian sees Deirdro overlooking the square and
he's thinking, oh, maybe I can get a shot through,

(23:52):
you know, through this crowd. Uh Grewish, who is basically
Deirdre's like left tenant, is able to get Cerril into
the building. There's a bunch of Kate extroids there now
clearly we're getting ready to meet Katuso. At some point,
one of them stares down Cyril, which is this I

(24:14):
love this moment because clearly, like the Imperial droids are
still these are Imperial terminators. But I think it's I
think it's a measure of how isolated Cyril feels. It's
almost like his own.

Speaker 4 (24:28):
Pain, Like the robots are against him.

Speaker 1 (24:30):
Yeah, everybody is against him. Everybody doesn't trust him.

Speaker 2 (24:34):
And we get this really great moment too with one
of the Fox News kind of guys, the Imperial Fox News,
who's like that all there peacefully protesting and he's like,
look at this insurrection like it's thedest, Like he's.

Speaker 4 (24:49):
He's already telling the Empire's story.

Speaker 2 (24:53):
When what people can see on the screen is different
from what he's telling them. And that idea of an
objective truth and losing an objective truth is a huge
theme running for this huge episode.

Speaker 1 (25:05):
Cyril gets into the room with Deirdre and he confronts
her and he's asking me, like what have you done?
What I'm here in mining equipment? Like is the Empire
actually doing this? Like is this actually us? And Deirdre's like, listen,
we're just following orders and this will all be over soon,
and how he's getting really really mad. He's like, how

(25:27):
long did you know about this. He's he's been made
to feel that he's been a fool, and he gets
really mad. He wraps his hands around Deirdre's neck and
he's squeezing, and then he stops and didre. Deirdre tells
Cyril that the stuff in the ground is stuff the
empire needs and when we get it, we're going home

(25:48):
as heroes. So just again, get with the program. It
was gonna happen anyway, she says, So what does it
matter that we're involved, like it was gonna happen if
we're not here gonna happen. It's gonna happen when where
you're just like, go with it. We may as well
take credit for Yeah, we might as well benefit. He
storms off. She's really shaken by this. Ceryl goes out,

(26:11):
I guess to try and do something, but he just
kind of gets lost by the events in the crowd.
Deirdre tells Garrish to detain him, but is he's out
there and it's too late. Partigas car part of gas
orders Deirdre basically begin the massacre, and Deirdre is questioning

(26:33):
whether she should relay that order, but she absolutely does.
She's like, yeah, yeah, in a way.

Speaker 2 (26:38):
I almost feel like this is such they do such
a good job here, and it's this kind of like
for a moment, I was.

Speaker 3 (26:45):
Like, is she is she questioning? And I felt I
think she is a little.

Speaker 2 (26:51):
But I also think it's like anticipation of understanding that
when she makes the call, like everything's gonna change, you know,
she thinks she's now going to be a hero.

Speaker 1 (27:02):
We were talking about this before the mics went on.
I think that this showed us such an incredible job,
and this is one of I think Tony Gilroy's like
one of his techniques. One of his moves is to
show you that evil, that fascism, which is this is
a very Unstar Wars thing, but that like these people

(27:25):
are human. They wonder if they're doing They're not some
inherently evil robot. They they're like, oh my God, like
we shouldn't do this, but in the end they end
up doing it, you know. I use the example of
Michael Clayton, which is a movie I talk way too
much about.

Speaker 2 (27:41):
But now we love Michael Clayon, we do. We can
talk too much about it.

Speaker 1 (27:45):
But till the Swinton's character, who is like the lead,
who is the in house attorney for this terrible chemical company.
Like when we meet her, she's nervously practicing a speech
and like putting her hand into her armpit and wondering
if she's sweating too much. And it's like we get
to see how this person who's about to go out
and do the most terrible shit is a human, frail person,

(28:07):
And I think we get those moments with Deirdre, and
it's really really powerful.

Speaker 4 (28:11):
It's really good stuff.

Speaker 1 (28:12):
So the crowd is now singing the Gorman Marseillae or
whatever their you know, their version of the Marseillaie is,
and the order is relayed for the Imperial troops to begin.
And the false flag is really diabolical. So an Imperial
sniper snipes one of their own troops and that's how
it sets it off. The massacre begins and it's just

(28:36):
like a fire. It's just a brutal suppression of the gores.
Some of the front are fighting back, but people are
falling all over the place. I mean, it's like an awful, awful,
awful death hole. Kaido is pleased. Deirdre goes out to
the balcony to look for Cyril. She's very worried about this,
they send the k Extroids into the frame and.

Speaker 2 (28:58):
This is some awful, horrifying stuff. I think you're absolutely right.
They are the Star Wars terminate to that. Yea, they're
uns they you can't do anything about them, Like we've
never really gotten to see them in full imperial.

Speaker 4 (29:14):
Mode, and it is truly horrifying.

Speaker 2 (29:16):
They are like snapping people's backs, They're throwing people against
wolves that anything you can do, you cannot do it
to them, like they are basically untouchable.

Speaker 1 (29:25):
Enza Rylance's daughter is thrown clear across the square and
killed by this chaos ride. And as the fighting has
taking place, the clerk gets to has a grenade somehow
and he takes out a squadron of smallshoopers with it.
And Cyril again has just been like hypnotized by this violence,

(29:46):
but he snapped out of it when he sees Cassion
and he recognizes him and remembers him from the age
the Axis Hunt and he attacks him and it's a brutal,
brutal fight.

Speaker 2 (29:57):
Yeah, it seems like this is I found very interesting
because I think that generally they have tried to portray
Cyril as pretty submissive, submissive to his mother submissive to Deirdre,
but in this episode we see him kind of trying
to find some semblance of independence, and for him that
does mean violence.

Speaker 3 (30:16):
He attacks Deirdra, Yeah, he chokes her.

Speaker 2 (30:18):
And then we see this fight with Cassium, which in
my opinion, should have been a one sided fight that
Cassian immediately won, but instead the first thirty forty seconds
Cyril is fucking smacking his head against the ground.

Speaker 4 (30:30):
He is like going for his eyes.

Speaker 2 (30:32):
Like to Cyril, I think in that moment he is
blaming Cassian for everything if he hadn't I had this
very comfortable happen.

Speaker 1 (30:41):
Yeah, I had this very comfortable job with the Bureau
of Standards, and then I got involved with hunting for you,
and now I'm here isolated and everybody hates me and
heat and he explodes. He gets a drop on Cassi
and gets his rifle. He's about to shoot him. Cassian
is like, who the fuck are Like, Cassie doesn't even
know who the fuck are you? And then Papa Rylance

(31:06):
pops Cyril's rat head off.

Speaker 3 (31:09):
Boom, just straight off, just shout it up like boom.

Speaker 1 (31:14):
People are streaming away from the square. Now it's it's
it's just a blood bath in there and.

Speaker 2 (31:19):
At least some people getting trampled on her. The last
case scenario.

Speaker 1 (31:24):
Wilman and Cassian managed to find each other and they're like,
we gotta we have to leave now. And Woman's like,
I can't you know my girlfriend is here, Like I
don't know where she is. She's right now on the
radio actually calling through any open channel that she can
find across the gallaxy and tell people like we're being slaughtered.
We're on Gorman, We're being slaughtered. The Empire is killing us. Now,

(31:46):
there's bodies on the ground like help us. Meanwhile, the
k Ex droids are rampaging and they and they start
rampaging towards Woman and Cassian. They stand and fight. They're like, well,
we're gonna die, but we got to shoot at this
thing so it doesn't kill the unarmed people. And just
as it's about to kill Cassian and Willman, it gets
run over in a by a transport driven by one

(32:07):
of the members of the front sam I believe. Yeah.
Cassian then gets a big idea like, Okay, we've got
to flee the planet, but use the you know, use
the tools of the beast to attack the beast. Maybe
we can get some value at at this k xtroid.

Speaker 3 (32:22):
I mean, bring me that joid.

Speaker 2 (32:24):
So I think that if you're wondering when we're gonna
meet K two S. So here he is, baby, this
is pre pre unbrainwashing k K two S.

Speaker 1 (32:35):
So meanwhile, Deirdre is Deirdre's like hand is like shaking,
She's upset, and it's like, okay, bitch, what do you think?

Speaker 3 (32:44):
Yeah, like, what do you mean she's having a panic attack.
I'm like, babe, you literally.

Speaker 2 (32:47):
Have been like foaming at the mouth for this massacre.
Like live it up, enjoy it, because like what the.

Speaker 1 (32:52):
Fuck imperial propaganda, you know whatever. Whoever hears Drina's message,
they are vastly outnumbered by the people who are being
poisoned by the imperial propaganda that I that this was a.

Speaker 2 (33:09):
Terrorist interrorist against the empire. They killed all these innocent people.

Speaker 1 (33:14):
Are the heroes? Are imperial heroes have fallen again?

Speaker 2 (33:18):
You know, as as we've said throughout this series, definitely
no real life allegories, this is all fictional. Doesn't doesn't
feel particularly relevant right now, Tony, Tony go, we thought
the tone zone the turns we're in it.

Speaker 1 (33:33):
Uh, And Edie back on Coruson is watching this and
she's like weeping, not knowing that her rat son has died.
But what but worried that.

Speaker 2 (33:42):
The Rats scene made pretty sure, Like I think she's
feeling it in the fourth Uh, let's know.

Speaker 3 (33:48):
I told him he should go there.

Speaker 1 (33:51):
Liz is tak a quick reak and we'll come back
with the episode Episode nine. Things are coming to a
head now. The Gorman massacre has happened. The news is

(34:14):
rippling across the galaxy en Coruscant Senator Senator Orrin of
Gorman is arrested on zero charges just because it's a
due process, no due process. He's being taken away. He's
screaming at at all these people who are just watching
it happen, like you're you realize, like you're next, your next.

Speaker 2 (34:32):
Yeah, He's like, he's like, if you don't do anything
like this will happen to you. Yes, if one person
doesn't have due process and doesn't have.

Speaker 4 (34:38):
Rights, then none of you do.

Speaker 1 (34:40):
Man and Bail, in hushed tones, are talking about this.
They are shocked at the Empire would stoop to this level.
Mon is insistent, like I'm going to take the floor
and I'm going to speak out about it.

Speaker 2 (34:50):
Dude, I got to say this is really funny because like,
this is such an important moment and this episode is
so great, but these two are both so fine that
whenever they talk together, I'm just like, wow, that's so hot.

Speaker 3 (35:03):
I'm like, Bail Logan, this is like you guys have.

Speaker 1 (35:09):
Who I completely agree. This is a this is a
this is a this is a this is a detour.
But I think one of the wonderful and weird surprises
of like Rogue one to and or season one to
and Season too is the my developing feelings for Mon Mathma,
who I just find wonderful. Mon call me anyway. So uh,

(35:36):
She's like, I'm gonna take the floor and be like
they're never gonna fucking let you. But implicit in all
of this is I think something really important which Mon recognizes,
and that is as vile and powerful as the Empire
seems right now, they've made a grievous error in doing this.
They've made a can't pretend this is.

Speaker 2 (35:59):
So.

Speaker 1 (36:00):
Mon says, Okay, I'm gonna speak out, but then we
need to flee you and I Bail, we need to
get out of here, and Bail's like, I can't because
reasons I can't tell you about Akam harboring Darth Vader's daughter,
which nobody do.

Speaker 3 (36:16):
Yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna have to rewatch everyone.

Speaker 2 (36:19):
Now.

Speaker 3 (36:19):
I love that version of Leah so much fantastic, So.

Speaker 1 (36:22):
I so I and it's not. Mon feels betrayed, and
he's like, listen, this isn't me chickening out. This isn't
like there's something else, is it betrayal? This is okay,
I can't tell you about it, but it's a real thing.
And also the rebellion isn't quite ready to really step

(36:42):
out into the light, but they do need your leadership.
So I'm gonna stay behind and you go. And she's like,
you're gonna be a hostage. They're just gonna use you,
and and you're gonna be a prisoner and probably be executed.
And he says like, don't worry, I've made arrangements for
you to leave. Right after you make your speech, Clia
tells Cassian who that you're going to stay under your

(37:03):
mid rim Uh news cover and you're going to be
covering events in the Senate as the Senate response to
the what I don't know what the Imperial is called
the Gorman Mascaret, but they probably call it like the
Gorman Insurrection and the Gorman the Gorman Attack or something. Uh.
Cassian says, listen after this, I'm done. I'm not this

(37:28):
man's always done, by the way, You're not done, You're
not dumb.

Speaker 3 (37:34):
I'm sorry.

Speaker 4 (37:35):
I wish you could be done, but it ain't true.

Speaker 1 (37:37):
And Claia, who I've love, is increasingly like, but what
does that mean? Your feelings got hurt? Like you're tired,
You're tired. I'm so fucking sorry for you. Do you
not like understand what we're doing here?

Speaker 3 (37:53):
And she gives people.

Speaker 1 (37:57):
And Cassian is like, listen, Luthen will know what I'm mean.
And Clay gives him more shit, and she's like, listen, man,
Matha is about to risk her life to make the
most important speech in galactic history, and you're gonna save
her life, okay? And you want out? And he's like,
I just I need to start making my own decisions, okay,

(38:19):
whatever that means. Erskine. In man Mathma's office finds a bug,
which is very concerning. She smashes it. Also like the
Imperial bugs are like the size of like an asthma
so huge.

Speaker 2 (38:30):
There's a day like a chunky brick Nokia, like a
Nokia three ten or something. I love when she smashed
it too, but I also I love to fury. But
also I'm like, Mon, you should have known to just
keep the bug that and only talk about things that
lead them in the wrong way.

Speaker 3 (38:45):
That's the what you really do.

Speaker 4 (38:47):
And there's a bug, come on.

Speaker 1 (38:48):
So the ICP is now flag Mon because they immediately
lose the bug and they're like, uh oh. Mon tells
her Skin keep looking for bugs. I'm gonna go outside
and practice my speech. Luthen, which feels like a very
dangerous move, meets her there and he tells her, listen, Mon,
I have something important to tell you. Erskin works for me.
I recruited him at the wedding. He's been protecting you,

(39:14):
but he couldn't tell you that he works for me.
And Man is upset now, and she's you know, we
saw the isolation of Cyril, and now you see Mon
on the edge. She's about to take this incredible step
into that's at once incredibly courageous and will open her
up to all sorts of like dangerous reprisals and the

(39:35):
people who have been supporting her, have been working with her,
have also been hiding things from her. So she feels
she's very, very vulnerable and bewildered. Right now, Lusen tells
Mon that listened more distressing news for you. Baylor Ghana's
circle has been penetrated. I know why. We'll find out why. Well,

(39:57):
why is because Donnie told him. Lonnie knows about it
because the agent that the ISB sent to penetrate Bail's
circle works for Lonnie. Solanie had to do that, but
he immediately went and told Luthan. So whatever you do,
don't go with his people. After the speech, he tells Mon,

(40:18):
but you can't tell anyone, and don't even tell Bail
that you know this because this could blow up his
Lonnie source. Like whatever you do, don't you know that's
one of the most important sources that the rebels have
right now, directly to the ISB leadership. And Mon is
again she's like emotionally, she's unmoored by all these developments

(40:40):
in the stress and she's like, to remember, Tay take Homa,
my old boyfriend, the banker who helped us longer the money,
and then you killed him. And she's basically saying, like,
is this what it's come to, like when when someone's
not of use anymore, they're seen as a slightly a
risk without thinking about like what their other value is

(41:02):
like as a human, as a person, Like we just
we just cut them loose now. And she's very scared.
She says, I'm more scared of you than I am
of the Empire right now, which is a crazy thing
to say.

Speaker 2 (41:12):
It's crazy, but at the same time, I get it. Yeah,
I think that stealin scars. God brings that energy to
this interaction where there is a desperation and a kind
of you can sense the horrors that he has committed
for the rebellion. And this is not the side of
Luthan that she usually sees. She usually sees like societal Luthan,

(41:33):
Luthan the art dealer. But now she's seeing Luthan the
man who will just shoot.

Speaker 3 (41:39):
Someone in the head.

Speaker 4 (41:40):
If Luthan the operator danger exactly.

Speaker 1 (41:43):
And Luthen says, listen, I get it, but I'm sending
someone I trust to get you off Coruscant. He will
give you the password. I have friends everywhere. Go with him.
Do not go with bails people. Mon's driver is busy
ratting her out to the ISB and saying she's staying
late at the Senate House. She doesn't know often do this,

(42:05):
so the ice bat tech is like passing this report
on and this, including the fact that the bug is down,
really means that they're watching her. She goes back to
her office. She tells Erskine, like, you're fired. How could
you do this to me? Like, I feel betrayed about you,
and Erskine is like, well, it was the honor of
my life to serve you. And okay. Luthen meets Cassian

(42:26):
and clea. No one knows what Mon is going to
do now because all of these developments and the fact
that she feels betrayed by Luthen and what's she going
to do? Erskine doesn't know either. Luthen says that after
the speech, I am staying on course. I will not
be evacuated to yeah, and I still have things to
do here, important things. And Cassian is like, they're going

(42:47):
to find you, They're going to find you out, and
Luthen says he basically says, I know that that's the
outcome at some point, but I still have things to
do here.

Speaker 3 (42:58):
Yeah, it hawks back to his speech.

Speaker 2 (43:00):
He knew he's never gonna survive to see the brave
New world. And now we are only two years away
from the Battle of Yavin, so he's gonna die soon
because he doesn't get to see that, you know, And
it's crazy.

Speaker 1 (43:11):
One of the things I love about Rogue one and
and or season one and two is it shows you that, listen, Luke,
Luke took the ball in on the five yard line
and ran it into the end zone right, and it
was very important. We all love Luke Skywalker for everything
he did for the rebellion, but there were a million

(43:31):
different other little interactions with little things that needed to
happen to get Luke to that moment. And I love
how this all comes from mon Mathma's original. You know,
many Bothams died to get us this information.

Speaker 2 (43:47):
I think it's one of the most interesting. And sorry
to super producer Aaron, I do love Rogue one and
the discord. That has been a great topic of conversation.
So we're loving you guys, are loving your wrong friend.
But the truth is that I think Tony Gilroy with
Roguwan I'm with these series makes this unbelievable statement about

(44:09):
the reality of like who gets celebrated after a war,
who gets celebrated when evil is taken down.

Speaker 1 (44:16):
That's such a good point and that's a big part
of the end of this episode. I can't wait to
talk about that. So the Senate House is filling up.
Cassion comes in as his reporter I D. They're like, well,
we no one your your outlet didn't check you in,
but fine, Like you're just gonna have to float around.
We don't have a spot. Yeah. Meanwhile, Organa's folks are

(44:38):
prepping their plan to whisk her away, and we don't
know which one of them is the ISB agent. The
ISB now knows that they've gotten information that certain senators
may try to speak out about Gorman, but the ISB
chief on site is not too worry about it. He's like, well,
they've been ordered, the speaker's been ordered not to let
it speak, so's don't worry about it. Bail tells Mom, Hey,

(45:00):
my team is ready leave with them the moment you're
done speaking Gate nine.

Speaker 4 (45:05):
She is.

Speaker 1 (45:06):
She doesn't say anything about what Luthen told her, but
she's like, do you trust them? And she's like, yeah, totally.
And she's like, do you know them, and she's and
he's like, no, not personally.

Speaker 2 (45:17):
So this is in that case a Luthan's guy. Luthen
doesn't trust many people. So if he says he trusts
this guy going Luthen.

Speaker 1 (45:25):
In the Senate, how speaker after speaker after speaker is like,
Gorman is bad, Gorman is bad, Gorman is bad? Are
imperial heroes? They gave their life blah blah blah blah blah.

Speaker 3 (45:35):
Yeah, on they're on the fucking ticket.

Speaker 4 (45:37):
Now they're just on the mail ticket saying all the
lies that they want to say because they're scared.

Speaker 1 (45:41):
But they are still complicit. Some of them are scared
and complicit. Some of them truly believe it, and some of.

Speaker 3 (45:47):
Them, some of them are probably getting money.

Speaker 1 (45:49):
Yes. Meanwhile, the IB agent in Bail's group is revealed.
As they are they're gathering their weapons from their hit
is spy may he starts making a call to like
isb headquarters? And so yeah, I'm with him. And then
one of the one of Bail's people's like what was that?

(46:10):
What are you? And so she has to kill him.

Speaker 4 (46:13):
She should have just been like, oh, it's the rebellion. Yeah,
oh it's bail ogana.

Speaker 1 (46:16):
Like come on, meanwhile, bail uses some uh it uses
like Decree A seventeen twenty five which the Emperor himself
put in, which allows a senior senator to speak in
a time of crisis, and that is manman the isb
is like su shut the feet down, like shut it
down before she could speak, So they're trying to do that.

(46:39):
And Mom makes her speech in which she lays bare
all the lies about Gorman and how and she lay
she's like building to this incredible climax while and basically
lays it all at the feet of the empire. The
death of truth is the ultimate victory of evil, she says,
And like who is the great evil behind them? The

(47:00):
monster screaming the loudest, the monster we helped create as
Emperor Palpatine. And she says, this is like the feet
is about to be about to be cut.

Speaker 2 (47:08):
And yeah, well, let's talk about how it was how
she was able to speak for that long, because you
made some great points about the gumming up the machine kind.

Speaker 1 (47:16):
Of well, I think it's like such it's one of
the most vital points I think about this show, about
how regular people can use whatever power they have and so,
and contrasting that with the life of the rat Cirrial.
There's those two workers at the Senate House who are
just like whatever, low level like workers. They have the

(47:38):
keys to the room where the broadcast hardware is, and
they're the Empire is trying to get in there to
like shut the feet off, and they're just like, well,
we don't we we did our job. We gave the
key to this person, so we eat the door. We fit, yeah,
and so we can't open it. We don't know where
the keys are. Sorry, And it's clear that they are,

(48:01):
you know, in some unspoken way, collaborating with each other
to do this. They give each other a very knowing look.
And I think it's one of the it's this moment
the clerk at the hotel. These are like very important
things to to acknowledge that the rebellion wasn't just the
Luke or the pilots and the X wings. It was
like all these little people or even also just normal

(48:24):
people doing everything.

Speaker 2 (48:27):
And that's why people they heat the Imperial kind of
like you know, servant whatever. This guy is, this low
level guy. He only manages to shut one's speech off
after she's called said the whole sk and she said
it was Emperor Palpatine and then he cuts the feet off.
So without those two women, that speech would never have
been able to happen. And I think, yeah, that's this.

(48:48):
These little moments just totally moved me.

Speaker 3 (48:51):
It was very episode.

Speaker 1 (48:52):
I thought it was. It's very powerful, and it's something
for people to realize. It's like you, you can do
something you and if it's small things. Cassian makes contact
with Mon right as she's coming off the floor, and
Mon's like, you know, she doesn't know who he is,
and she's reeling. She realizes now that this is the
end for her, this is the end of her career

(49:13):
as a senator, that might be the end of her life,
and she doesn't know who this person is. He gives
her the password. I have friends everywhere, and you know,
Cassian is insistent. He's like, the Ice B's ordered your
arrest and we need to go. And I know what,
Luthen is a fucking asshole, but he's right, and I'm
here to protect you. They get to the bottom of
the elevator, reporters are swarming Mon. The ISB agent in

(49:37):
Bails group, who's now basically the point person pretending to
be bail Or. Ghana's person comes and she kind of
blows it right away. She pulls her gun out. It's like,
isb You're under arrest. Cassian shoots her, and Cassian whisks
man away and as Erskine is like, I'll stay back
and I'll buy time, and it's a crazy chase. The

(49:58):
building is being locked down. The icebe learns that their
agent is down, and this is where we learned that
that agent was one of Lonnie's. So again, how this
is how Luthan knew about it.

Speaker 2 (50:10):
Good job, Lonnie, because you obviously sent an incompetent person.

Speaker 1 (50:13):
Lonnie's doing competent.

Speaker 2 (50:15):
She blew it, Lonnie. I think your family's going to
be okay. I know Luthen was, you know, threatening them.
He's that must suck. But you did a good.

Speaker 1 (50:21):
Job Himnie is Lannie is really really doing great. The
life of you know, a reverse rat whatever the reverse
version of the serial is Cassian kills Bond's driver because
he look, he does I will.

Speaker 2 (50:40):
Say, look, I'll give Cassian a little bit of prop
so yeah, because he basically does try and like he's
like how far can we get? Like will he play
the game? Because he's like, oh, we found her, let's
get her safely away and the driver immediately is.

Speaker 1 (50:54):
Like who are you.

Speaker 2 (50:55):
So Cassie is like, shit, just got to shoot you
in the head. He's like, you could have played the
game man, So they speed away long.

Speaker 1 (51:01):
Mon is obviously like terrified.

Speaker 2 (51:04):
She's starting to see the real rebellion. Yes, this is
the the rebellion.

Speaker 1 (51:08):
So on Yavin Bell begins her training of the recruits
and we see that one of them is Melchi, who
is going to be one of the marines who dies
with all of the other rebels on Scariff. Yeah. Cassian
brings Mon to the safe house, the Corussant safe house,
when Erskine and Clay are there. He goes back to

(51:29):
see Will, who was injured back on Gorman and he's
there with Drina and Will is in bad shape. Clay
tells Mon that Lusen is safe, so the network is
fine for now. Mon says to Cassian like, how do
I thank you? And he just says, make it worth it.
Cassian gets Drina and Will to Yavin and updates Draven

(51:51):
about everything that happened, and then Draven tells Cassian this
is really important because he also he brought Man in,
I assume. But but you said about how important messaging
is and how important it is for the rebellion to
step out into the light and the right way, And
so the cover story for what actually happened is going

(52:13):
to be that gold Squadron of the Rebellion delivered Man
to Yavin and rescued her, not that this ragtag spy
never didn't know. This is how we're going to announce
to the galaxy that the rebellion is a real thing
and we're capable of being an antidote and an answer

(52:34):
to the Empire.

Speaker 2 (52:35):
And if you were like inspired by Mon's speech, then
be on the side of the rebellion, because that's the
side she is on.

Speaker 1 (52:42):
I thought this was such an important thing to put
in because at the same time as Man is saying
we have to call out the lies when we see them,
when we know their lives, the Rebellion is also saying,
in a kind of pragmatic way, listen, this isn't true
the way Man was rescued. But in order to show

(53:07):
people that were strong enough to do this, we need
to tell this lie. And yeah, it's an important thing
to think about because I don't know that it's I
think it's the right decision.

Speaker 2 (53:19):
I understand why they're for the bigger yes, for the
bigger rebellion picture. But I also do think again, Tony's
making that commentary on like, who are the people who
don't get the recognition, Who are the people who do
the hard work, who are willing to do the scary things,
who you know, in history would only be recognized like

(53:39):
fifty years later and someone found some journal about them
or something. And I think it's interesting that he's keeping
that fucking real.

Speaker 1 (53:45):
I think it's it's very real. And so Draven is like, listen, Mon,
the story is going to be gold Squadron rescuer, and
then Man is going to make another speech that will
bring the galaxy to our side. And so it's basically
Draven saying, hey, I recognize what you did, Cassian, but
it's never going to be part of the main narrative. Ever.

(54:07):
Cassian goes home to Bix and tells Bix like, that's it.
I'm done, I'm not doing this anymore.

Speaker 2 (54:12):
Which, honestly, fab because he did the big thing today.

Speaker 3 (54:15):
He's done so much in his.

Speaker 2 (54:16):
Life and today he did the thing and he saved
Mon and if I was Bix and I was Cassian,
I too would say it's done.

Speaker 3 (54:24):
I've done what I have to do.

Speaker 2 (54:25):
Let me leave.

Speaker 1 (54:26):
And he says, let's just find like whatever quiet corner
of the galaxy there still it is, and just go
there and be done with it. You know. He's like,
I've rolled the dice so many times and I feel
like my luck is run out, Like I can't keep
rolling the dice, and nothing is worth more than this,
he says, which is like their relationship together. But when

(54:47):
he wakes up, Bix is gone. She leaves him a
video message basically saying, you're too important to the rebellion
the force healers feel it that you're going to play
a crucial role in defeating the Empire, and I can't
be the reason that you stop doing it. So I
have to go away from you until the fight is done,

(55:09):
and then we'll be together. It's heartbreaking. Cassian runs to
the landing paths, but she's gone, Gone, gone. And later
Cassian watches as the rebel engineers are rebooting the hypothetically
reprogrammed k extry. Nobody knows if it's going to work right,
and they turn it on and it's ky and we

(55:31):
realize that it's K two s O born or reborn
in this in this moment.

Speaker 2 (55:36):
And we get the great Allentic voice as yes, wonderful
Cassium with this gun pointed at KOs two K two
s O and Alentini's voice. Sorry if I offended you
in some way, But could I ask that you lower
your gun? And and you know sure has and has
Cassian lost Bix? Yes, but does he now have his

(55:59):
other forever part and a K twos so orso?

Speaker 1 (56:01):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (56:01):
So we can that can warm our hearts as we
cry for Cassian and his love that he will never
see again. Jason, Yes, what about this episode?

Speaker 1 (56:10):
Has you been I mean all of these, this tranch
of episodes, this chapter is just incredible. It's like it's
I think, take it all together, seasons one and two.
This the recency bias, I'm calling it out. Yeah, this
could be objectively the best Star Wars.

Speaker 3 (56:34):
Yeah, I think so too. I've ever I see I
think so too.

Speaker 2 (56:38):
I think it understands what George Lucas loved about Star Wars.
I think it understands the way that politics shapes the
world of Star Wars and often is more impactful than
somebody with the lightsaber. I think the cast is unbelievable.
And while those three, the three episodes set on the

(57:00):
prison in and Or season one, are probably my favorite
Star Wars ever. But I think consistency wise, I think
the quality and kind of themes and writing and production
on this season, I think it might be edging out
season one quality. I think, like, I think it's better
season one, which is crazy, it doesn't exist without season one,

(57:23):
and we love season one, but I would yeah, I'm
We've got three episodes left, which we're going to be
talking about, you know, next week. But for me, I
just I think it's it's there, man, Like every episode
is better, and every emotional beat hits at this point,
and it's just even like, look, this is not the
kind of show where people are like looking for Easter

(57:46):
eggs or a deeply excited by came.

Speaker 4 (57:50):
Yeah, and when mel she showed up, it may my
heart like jumped.

Speaker 3 (57:55):
That was And I also.

Speaker 2 (57:57):
Joelle put this in the question, and I think put
this in the chat, and I think this is a
good point. Is this version of and Or does it
feel better because of the release schedule.

Speaker 3 (58:05):
I think the answer is yes.

Speaker 1 (58:07):
I think so.

Speaker 3 (58:07):
I think they'd have.

Speaker 2 (58:08):
Done the chapters in the arcs last time, it would
have been way way more easily digested by the general
viewing audience.

Speaker 1 (58:16):
I agree, and I think it listen Obviously, it's also
meeting the moment in a in a wider societal sense,
and it's the chapter kind of release schedule, which you know,
I think is at least partially driven by the fact that, again,
this is like a very low rated show, uh just.

Speaker 2 (58:39):
On pure when it comes to how many people watch
this obviously very critically acclaimed, but.

Speaker 1 (58:44):
I think that it also you know, it feels like
it feels like a tale, Like I kept thinking this
must have been what it was like to read A
Tale of Two Cities when it was coming out in
serial form, Like you're absolutely, it's incredible drama, it's incredible

(59:05):
social commentary. It feels of the moment, and uh, it's
it's incredible. It's just so jaw droppingly outrageously good, with
so much to think about in there.

Speaker 2 (59:22):
Yeah, and I think the chapters make the themes incredibly clear.
I think there is like a clarity to each chapter
essentially being about something else and not just narratively but
also thematically, like the theme of truth and having an
objective truth and losing truth and double think and all
that kind.

Speaker 4 (59:41):
Of Awwellian.

Speaker 2 (59:44):
Reality that we're living through. That is what this chunk
of episodes is about. And I think that when you
break them up like this, it's giving the audience a
chance to digest them and to really live in the
themes and the story in a way that when you're
doing a weekly release you don't necessarily get.

Speaker 1 (01:00:03):
I also think that there's you know, something I've been
thinking a lot about is like it there's something in
this series about like, okay, but what does it mean?
You know something you and I have talked about We've
talked about off mic is you know, in the in
the in the age of some of our recent protests,

(01:00:26):
or in the age of rhetoric against whatever's going on
in the world, Like what is it through the lens
of this show? What does it mean to have your
rhetoric match your action? And I love the way and
we talked about a bunch through these episodes, but I
just love the way this show highlights the bravery of

(01:00:47):
just like normal people who are trying to do whatever
they can.

Speaker 2 (01:00:51):
I love the way you put it to gumming up
the machine. And I think that's a lesson that all
of us can take, Like, how can you gum up
the machine?

Speaker 1 (01:00:58):
Of how can you come up the machine?

Speaker 2 (01:01:00):
How can you gum up the machine that is hurting
your neighbors and your friends, Like, take that from this
episode and be the person who comes up the machine.
It's like those are the real heroes.

Speaker 1 (01:01:09):
And how can you do it when you don't control
the economy, you don't control the media, you don't control
any of the sources of power in this world, and
you're seeing people in this world take agency in any
way they can. I think it's an extremely powerful message.
I can't wait to see where this show takes us. Yeah,

(01:01:31):
on the next episodes of Extra Vision, we are returning
to and Or for our roundtable for an even deeper
dive to continue talking about the really fascinating themes and
all the things that are coming up as we're watching
the show. And then next week, of course, we have
more last of Us and we're gonna be covering the
last three episodes of and Or. So that's it for
this episode. Thanks for listening.

Speaker 3 (01:01:51):
Bye.

Speaker 1 (01:01:57):
Xtra Vision is hosted by Jason Concepcion. I'm Rosie Night
and is a production of iHeart Podcast.

Speaker 2 (01:02:02):
Our executive producers are Joel Monique and Aaron Kaufman.

Speaker 1 (01:02:06):
Our supervising producer is Abu Zafar.

Speaker 2 (01:02:08):
Our producers are Common, Laurent Dean Jonathan and Faye Wag.

Speaker 1 (01:02:12):
A theme song is by Brian Vasquez, with alternate theme
songs by Aaron Kauffman.

Speaker 2 (01:02:16):
Special thanks to Soul Rubin, Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman and
Heidi our discord moderator.