November 23, 2025 • 40 mins
Jason and Rosie recap episode four of Pluribus and are then joined by producers Aaron and Ian to discuss theories about the mystery man in Paraguay, how the new details we learn about Carol's past inform how the story is unfolding and further speculation on what the hive mind's end goal could be.
Follow Rosie: IG & Letterboxd
Follow X-Ray Vision on Instagram
Join the X-Ray Vision Discord
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Warning, today's episode contained spoilers for the excellent fourth episode
of Pluribus.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
On Apple TV Plus.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
He warned, Hello, my name is Jason Sepsion and I'm
Rosey Night and welcome back to ext revision of the
(00:29):
podcast where we dive deep.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
It's your favorite shows, movies, comics and pop culture comedy
from My Heart podcast. We're're bringing you three episodes a week.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
In today's episode, we're doing it dot guys.
Speaker 4 (00:39):
It's episode four of Pluribus and things are getting crazy.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
We will be bringing in super producer.
Speaker 4 (00:45):
Ian and even a little bit of super producer Aaron
to talk about our theories and schemes and scams and
what is Vince Gilligan up to after our recap.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Okay, Pluribus episode four, please Carol. We open, apparently with
Paraguay man. A timer sounds and we see that this
mysterious gentleman is scanning radio frequencies, listening to them and
then crossing them off. He's sitting at a ham radio
(01:16):
set and it appears he is in some sort of
storage unit facility. There's a sign in Spanish that says,
you know you gotta pay every thirty days? Are you
going to be you know, all your the lock on
your storage things can be cut and all your stuff's
gonna be victed. He clearly has not been outside the
(01:39):
room in a while because he's picking through.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
The trash and he's just like licking the tops of cans.
Speaker 5 (01:45):
He's hungry.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
It's like a fortified bunk. He's hungry. It's like a
bunker in here.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
He looks outside and sees someone arrive take a trio
of food that had been left for him, and leave
another spar new tray of fresh food, much like they're
doing for Carol. He arms himself with a tire ron,
goes out, tips over the tray of food, comes back
in uh and then writes a sign basically apologizing to
(02:13):
whoever owns these storage units, and begins like cutting them
open looking for any food.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
He comes away with.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
A horrifying collection of edible stuff.
Speaker 5 (02:26):
A real struggle. It's a very simid struggle, the ultimate
struggle meal.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
It's like a three cans of dog food and like I,
I don't even remember what the other stuff is, but it's.
Speaker 6 (02:42):
Mainly pockets of sugar and like a pouch of some liquid,
unidentified liquid, very very rough.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
As he is eating this wolfing this down and just
trying to like just wrestle it down. The phone rings
in its Carol, and we see that phone call exchange
from the other side, and then he writes in his notebook,
caroless Turkish question mark.
Speaker 5 (03:08):
We go to Carol.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
It was fun. We go to the hospital. Carol's leaving
the hospital. She's her car is totally fucking shit. So
she takes a police cruiser. The hive Mine is like,
how do you like the police cruiser. People on the
highway are like waving at her as she drives by.
She goes home and she finds that the hive Mine
(03:29):
is like freshening up her whole house, cleaning up the
grenade damage. She's like, I thought, what are you doing?
And they're like, don't you remember, like right after the
grenade exploded, we asked you if we could clean the
house and you were like yeah.
Speaker 5 (03:44):
And it was absent mindedly.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Yeah, and we went with it. The cleanup crew includes
the mayor of the town and the house looks great.
It does look great. In her office, she she's got
a whiteboard of her next Wakaro book that's planned out.
It made me want to buy this whiteboard by the way.
Speaker 6 (04:04):
Yeah, it looked very cool with the layers. Yeah, it
was sick.
Speaker 5 (04:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
The multiple leaves, so she moves that aside, almost erases
the new book, but doesn't, and she starts a new board.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
What I know about them?
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Uh, And it's like eager to please, they can't kill
they don't play favorites. They are trying to change me,
and they're weirdly honest. She goes out, gets a volunteer
from the crew.
Speaker 5 (04:30):
She doesn't want the.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Mayor, so she calls in a guy who we learned
is or was named Larry, tells everybody else to leave,
and then she grills Larry about various things, including her books.
It's like, what do we what does the hive mind
think of my books? They love them. They kind of
are like very bullshitty at first, like they haven't read them.
But then she's like, no, I need you to like
(04:52):
actually prove to me. And they're like specifically this line
and that line and the exchange you know that happened
here in this particular scene. And so then she asked Larry, Okay,
well what do you think about And this is like
remind currently online there's people are asking groc the x Ai,
(05:16):
like who is more physically fit Lebron James or Elon
Musk And this reminded me of that. Yeah, it's like
straight up to saying, well, technically Lebron is like more
physically explosive, but like when you look at the holistic
fitness of Elon Musk is like one of the fittest
people who has like ever lived. So she asks, Okay, Larry,
(05:39):
what do you think about my work in comparison to Shakespeare?
And Larry's like, basically the same, just like it's on
the level of Shakespeare. Basically like with Carro think about
it as it's like modern Dame Macbeth.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
It's true. And then actually.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Larry makes a kind of like compelling point, which is
to the people that love your books, who are part
of us, they these works deeply touch them, like there's
a there is a fan of yours that's part of us.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
That was like in a dark place she was gonna
commit suicide. And then it's like your book came out
and it really found her where she needed to be found.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
And then Carol is like, okay, what did Helen think
of my look? And then there's like a very troubling.
Speaker 5 (06:27):
Pause right, and it's like you've got to come up.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
You've got to have these responses quicker, I think, if
you're the hive mind. But so the hive mind is like,
first response is well, Helen loved you, okay, and.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Then and then the high mind's like, well, I mean
you said.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
She's off limits, so like, let's tell and Carol is
like really presses, and then Larry's like, well, she thought
they were harmless.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
They were like cotton candy, like a snack. And then
Carols like, well, what about my unpublished work that I've
been working on for five years, the very personal book?
And then there's a very very long pause, and Larry's
like trying to escape the conversation, and Carol like drops
the hammer and is like, if you tell me it
will make me happy. You tell me what Helen thought.
(07:24):
And Helen thought it was fine. It's just it was fine.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
And then apparently we learn that the reason that Helen
had pushed for Carol to release it is that she
had strategized with Val, her editor, and they both thought, well,
it won't harm the Wikaro brand, it won't harm the line,
and it will make Carol happy, so just put it
out and it'll be like basically a harmless thing to
(07:50):
put out.
Speaker 6 (07:51):
Right and will fuck up the bag. Everybody will still
be good.
Speaker 5 (07:54):
Just let her have her phone, you'll feel good. She'll
feel good about it.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
So then Carol dismissus Larry and writes on the whiteboard,
can't lie.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Carol goes to see Zosha. She apologizes for the whole
thing with grenade. She's like, I didn't understand how it
worked with you guys, and then she interviews Zosha and
asks you know about Davis Tackler, telling her that at
the time, he didn't the hive mind, didn't really know
how it all worked, and it's like, well, how does
it work now? And so she's like, yeah, we know
(08:23):
a lot more now basically, and Carol's like, how do
we How do I fix it?
Speaker 5 (08:28):
How do I reverse it?
Speaker 2 (08:29):
And they're like, we can't. Sorry, that's like offline, that's.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
Something we can't do, which basically tells Carol by process
of elimination that it is reversible and big deal. And
then so Zosha's like, don't worry about it, because soon
enough you're going to you're gonna really understand it, which
means I think that they're speeding towards the solution, towards
assimilating Caroly into the hive mind. Carol asks Zosha to
(08:57):
tell her and this is like, you know, we talked
last week about oh man, they're really toning the line
with Carol potentially being unlikable.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Like why is she?
Speaker 1 (09:05):
I get that she wants to fix everything, but I
don't get the urgency. And now you get the urgency.
And this is when you're like Vince Gilligan master, because
he gives.
Speaker 5 (09:13):
You that little bit, it all makes sense.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
It all makes sense now in a way that is
like whoa.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
And we discover and Zosha tells us that Carol was
in a conversion therapy camp put there by her parents
and it was like the worst experience that you could
imagine that everybody was horrendous, but with smiles on their faces.
And basically Carol is saying, this reminds me of that.
You see, Zosha, how this is exactly the same. They're
(09:41):
the people of the conversion camp didn't take my agency
and my consent into their decision making. And you're not
doing it either. You're just doing this to me, trying
to do it to me. Why are you trying to
do this when I don't want it and then have mind.
Zosha is basically like, well, you don't know what it's
like to be us.
Speaker 5 (10:01):
You know what it's like to be you, but you
don't know.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
How actually cool it is to like completely be subsumed
into the hive mind, which I'm not buying it, but
I have to give it to the hive mind.
Speaker 5 (10:12):
They do come up clever responses let's take home break, and.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
We were back with the rest of their tute.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
And we're at Carol then goes to the pharmacy of
the hospital and flips to the drug manual, finds like
information on sodium pentathal, which is like the old school
truth serum, like from like.
Speaker 5 (10:46):
Cold War spy shit.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
And a guy comes in catches her and she's like, no,
I want heroin. We learned that Carol was a heroin addict.
They got a look over heroin. He's like, oh, I
don't know about heroin. He's like, what about oxy? What
about something else? It's like, no, I want heroin, and
they're like, okay, well it's coming. It's eight miles away,
but it's on its way.
Speaker 4 (11:05):
This was a huge one where I was like, okay, Carol,
I'm like, I feel like you're using all your past
to find potential ways to evade this, and again Vince
Gill again like what he's the master. It was really
funny because three is such a slow burn, and I
do still stand by. I don't think it's as strong
as one two and definitely not as strong as this,
(11:27):
but it does all come together here in a way.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
Just start to go.
Speaker 4 (11:31):
Oh, okay, my guy, okay, I see what you're doing here.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
An incredible setup episode, absolutely so, she gets the heroin
and she also steals some other stuff from the pharmacy
which they don't know about. She goes home, she dumps
the heroin out, sets up a video camera to record
herself and then using herself as like the experimentee, injects
herself with the sodium pentathol and then.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Just tapes what comes out. And after she wakes up
after like being fully blacked out, she plays the SD
card and it's very funny. There's like a lot of
blabbering and slurring and like reading her own works in
English accents and saying she's complaining about Zosha, saying how
(12:18):
annoying she is, but also like clearly attracted to her,
being like, well, she's also very fuckable. And then Carol
throws away the SD card and clearly she has some
sort of plan, and then she goes back to the hospital.
She takes the handcuffs and stuff out of the police car.
She begins wheeling Zosha away, like let's go for a walk,
(12:39):
it'll be nice.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
They get to the elevator, she looks around her cameras
and then she puts the serum, the truth serum, into
Zosha's ivy bag, and then wheels her out to a
little plaza and begins to question her, like how do
I reverse it?
Speaker 2 (12:54):
What do I do? How do I change this?
Speaker 5 (12:56):
Tell me?
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Now, Zosha is like weeping, weeping. The hive mind pours
out of the surrounding buildings to like, you know, stop
what's going on. Carol handcuffs herself to Zosha so they
can't stop it, orders them to back away, and continues
like asking how do I reverse it?
Speaker 2 (13:15):
How versa? And now the whole crowd is like doing
is chaded? Carol, Please, Carol, please, Carol please.
Speaker 5 (13:21):
They're all crying too.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Crying, weeping, and then Zosha passes out, falls on the
floor and one of the timeline is like, she's dying
of cardiac arrest.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
May we save her life? And then she's like, yes,
go save her life, and that's where we end. Let's
see a quick break and then talk about this incredible episode,
and we're back so much to talk about what an
(13:54):
awesome episode of the show. What did you think, Rosie,
what are your thoughts?
Speaker 4 (13:57):
I mean, unbelievable episode, starting to really get to the
point of, oh, I see where this is going now.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
Yes, yeah, a huge.
Speaker 4 (14:07):
Big emotional episode, but also finally giving us some more
of the steaks. And also, you know, I love somebody
who is a complicated and unlikable character who has a reason,
which is not often something that you see a lot
of times.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
They'll just be like, she is a bitter woman.
Speaker 4 (14:25):
So I think, like the big reveal here about conversion
therapy and how similar this feels huge. Yeah, just so
well done and so really I did not see it
coming at all, and I think there was just there's
a balance between using something like that as a so
called twist or using it to further the plot. But
(14:47):
I think here it feels very deserved and establishes a
lot makes a lot of sense to do with what.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
We know about Carol and the world.
Speaker 4 (14:55):
I also loved the truth Serum experiment because, like I've
written quite extent about the kind of history of truth
Serum and the way it was influenced by comic book
stories and the way it was influenced by you know,
the oss and it's really really interesting to see that
here and also to see I think we end this
(15:16):
episode with a very interesting quandary, which is like, how
much like physical power do they have over Carol? And
do they need every single person on earth to be
involved in it for it to be successful, because otherwise,
why wouldn't you just kill her? Like if she is
not going along with the plan and now she's like
trying to uncover what it is and reverse it. I
(15:39):
find that to be a very interesting wrinkle, and I
want to know why they need Carol, So yeah, just
really intrigued. I think this is gonna secure people. They
can't kill people because it would make her unhappy, but
why Like what is the nature of the swarm? You know,
(16:00):
so they have a biological imperative I guess to not kill,
but I need to know why and I need to
know how that works with their invasion plans and how
the hive mind works.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
So I'm very intrigued.
Speaker 4 (16:14):
And I think that this is going to be the
episode where if people are not already hooked, this one
is going to have.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
Them hooked in.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
Yeah, I totally agree.
Speaker 4 (16:22):
Also, congrats to Vince because this is they are saying,
like the biggest Apple TV drama series launch.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
Now do I technically think this is you know, low
bar but still.
Speaker 4 (16:35):
Low Bark is also like what else counts as a drama,
like a severance a drama. But it did get six
point four million hours logged in the first two episodes
according to Nielsen, So it's people are hooking onto it
and I'm really excited to keep talking about with you guys.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
So we had, you know, like I thought that Paraguay
guy as we are calling him at the moment, was
like scanning for other survivors. But super producer Aaron has
a theory that I love. Aaron, come in and tell us.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
In the beginning, the guy in Paraguay is checking a
radio frequency, waiting for like a minute and then crossing
off each one, and he's going frequency by frequency. I
think he's not looking for survivors. I think he's looking
for how they communicate, so obviously like a hive mind needs,
it's not just like some telepathic thing. I think.
Speaker 5 (17:29):
I think they're using somehow.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Yeah, I think there's a frequency they're using. And also
I think it was back in episode one or two
they specifically mentioned like, oh, all the cell phone towers
are down, So I think that the bringing down the
cell phone towers is to free up all these high
frequency radio waves that they can use to communicate. Now
he doesn't find it, so I'm not positive that this
is the case, but that's what I think they're hinting
(17:54):
in with him doing all this research, and it also
just makes me think, this guy I like that more
than we do, which is really intriguing.
Speaker 4 (18:03):
I love that read Aaron, especially because I think that
makes sense. And also, if you think about it, a
classic Hive of Mine story, right, usually you have to
kill the mother figure, the central figure, so trying to
find out where it goes back to makes a lot
of sense. I also like the notion that I love
(18:24):
a story like even you know, going back to something
as kind of campy as like a Mars attacks.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
I think it's always really fun when there is.
Speaker 4 (18:31):
A story about somebody who thought that aliens were real
and then they are real? And this is definitely giving.
This guy was prepared for something. Maybe he knew about it,
maybe he didn't, Maybe he just had always been waiting
for an alien invasion. But I think that's gonna add
some really interesting stuff. And I love that read Aaron
I hadn't thought of it.
Speaker 5 (18:50):
I love it too.
Speaker 4 (18:51):
But that makes in the sense of the show. I
think makes so much more sense. And yeah, I mean,
what a show, Jason.
Speaker 3 (19:03):
I want to make theories. I was gonna say, well,
I want.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
To raise something that I think goes along with Aaron's theory.
And so Carol gets the Truth serum and through chemical
means does manage to cut Zosha off from the Hive Mind,
like they lose contact with her and she loses Wi Fi.
She loses Hive Mind WiFi right, but she goes into
(19:26):
cardiac arrest. And so I wonder also if there is
not some huge danger to cutting off the Wi Fi
without knowing the way to do it, because it seems
like you could potentially like exterminate the globe if you
do it incorrectly. What do we think about that we
(19:47):
already have examples of her like getting angry and shutting
them down and then yeah, causes huge exactly.
Speaker 5 (19:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
I think this is the next conflict she's going to
run into, is she figures out a way to do it,
but it's so damaging that she going to second guess it.
Speaker 3 (20:01):
Well, she also was considering just a nuke, you know.
Speaker 4 (20:04):
And this is an interesting thing because there is actually
this is the second series that we have right now
alongside it Welcome to Derry, where it's just like, guys
the nukes. There may be nukes before the end of
both of these shows. But I do kind of like
that the main conflict between Carol and the Hive Mind
(20:26):
is actually about her having to treat them humanely, Like
she could just be going to a Walmart and getting
a gun and shooting a bunch of people down, but
her actual hatred and viciousness and bitterness around humanity is
being constantly questioned by the fact that these people don't
(20:46):
have agency in their bodies, which we now know why
she relates to. So I do think that going forward,
she is not only going to be trying to find
ways to not get assimilated. I think I think that
she will be trying to and it will start with
figures like zosher and stuff who she knows and is
making connections with, where she is trying to free them,
(21:09):
and that is going to end up, I think being
a major part, because freeing them is a side effect
of getting rid of the hive mind.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
But I think that freeing them is.
Speaker 4 (21:18):
Going to become more important to her than not getting assimilated,
and that's going to be that personal journey for her.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
What do we think is going to be the reason
that she is immune?
Speaker 6 (21:29):
Ian, Oh, it's still like up in the air for me.
I have no idea what it could be. I have
a feeling it's going to be something that we haven't
even clocked yet, or maybe it's never even explained. I
don't know, but I think it's still too early to tell.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
I think there're so few survivors. There's nothing that I think, like, oh,
there are only twelve people in the world who have
this sequencing of DNA, or only twelve people in the
world who went to conversion therapy survived, Like, I think
it's random. I can't think of anything that truly is
going to be like, oh, because she happened to eat
(22:06):
this one packaging of ring things twenty years ago that
were yeah, she's okay now, or something I would say.
Speaker 3 (22:15):
I do think it's that you're probably right, Aaron. I
think that it's going to be.
Speaker 4 (22:19):
Such a specific series of events that had to happen
for people to become immune, the same way is that
people come immune to any illness.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
You know that. I think that you're right.
Speaker 4 (22:31):
I don't think that the why is necessarily going to
be the most important, because lots of people are traumatized,
lots of people have had terrible experiences, way too many
people have gone to conversion camps, you know, ban that
shit banned in most places. But like, I also think
that something really interesting here is the way that this
(22:52):
does seem to also keep tying back to like AI
and data centers. Even though I know that this was
a show that he made ten years ago, the show
like he started to make and he started to plan,
But this idea of how chat GPT always uses other
people's memories and regurgitates them and kind of everything is plagiarized,
(23:12):
that is seeming more and more like an important plot
point here. And also if we're talking about how they're
staying connected, that notion of you know, wi fi or
the amount of energy it would actually need for the
hive mind to be able to communicate against each other.
(23:32):
Also seems like a resources game, you know. So I'm
very interested to see how those threads tie together.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
Ian, what are your thoughts on it?
Speaker 6 (23:42):
Well, I have an interesting question that I wanted to
post to the group actually sure related to the truth
serum sequence at the end, where clearly Carol's trying to
compel Zosha to reveal this information that the hive mind
does not want to reveal, and it clearly causes her
to have a physical reaction. You know, why do why
do we think it's so painful for them to they
(24:05):
they they're not lying, but they can clearly withhold information,
but like when it's forced or they're compelled, it like
causes them harm. I wonder why why do we think
that's happening? And then the other question that I was
wondering is like our is the highline capable of experiencing
negative emotions? Are they capable of getting upset or angry
with Cary?
Speaker 2 (24:24):
They're all crying at the end, right.
Speaker 4 (24:26):
So, well, I would also want to say, like, now
we know why it's so horrible to Carol. Can I
pose something incredibly depressing, like are they doing this because
she hates it?
Speaker 3 (24:39):
Like do they know that because of Helen?
Speaker 4 (24:42):
Like is the whole we are so happy all the time,
we love everything.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
It's great, that's like an act.
Speaker 4 (24:49):
I wonder that because I do think that it is
now so specifically reminding her of that. And we know
they have all of Helen's memories, so it seems a
random that that would.
Speaker 3 (25:01):
Just be the specific version of it. So I wonder
that also.
Speaker 4 (25:05):
Ian The thing about the compelling I think is really
interesting because it proves that there is a hive mind,
but it is being controlled by someone.
Speaker 3 (25:15):
Because if it was.
Speaker 4 (25:16):
Just a soul hive mind where everyone was you know,
equally high vy or whatever, you would probably be able
to tell. But there's something stopping them, like a compulsion.
Maybe it's a biological imperative, maybe it's part of their
Ilien programming. But yeah, also as well, just traditionally, that
kind of sodium penthole like truth serum is like a
(25:36):
horrific experience as well, like it's made to make you
feel fucked up and and and kind of stops.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
There's no such thing obviously as like a real truth serum.
Speaker 4 (25:46):
It's more about how much can they fuck up your
body and brain till you just start going holy, this
is how I feel, This is how I feel, This
is how I feel.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
Right.
Speaker 4 (25:54):
So I thought that was also a very interesting because
again it's about Carol kind of she's going to start
to learn their humanity as she goes oh with.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
The Zosia heart attack. It's unclear to me whether it
was pressing her on the way to reverse it or
her disconnection from the hive mind that actually caused her
to collapse.
Speaker 5 (26:19):
It might be a combination.
Speaker 4 (26:20):
I wondered that too, Like, did the hive mind actually
want her to collapse because she was gonna break because
they would be able to feel, or it just.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
Might be that it might be that, you know, like
we don't know how this thing works.
Speaker 5 (26:33):
Right, but it might be there.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
Her unconscious you know, biological rhythms, her heartbeat, her breathing
are somehow managed or shut or or woven through the
hive mind, so that disconnecting them actually makes it so
her body doesn't work anymore.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
I mean, her body also took the brunt of a
grenade like three days ago, so.
Speaker 3 (26:55):
She's going through it. She's going through it she's going through.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
It's been a rough weight for zosh I do have
a question for everyone about sure kind of Carol and
Zoshia hive mind. It's you know, I think Carol is
getting less angry, She's becoming more focused and trying to
be a little more strategic, I think, whereas I think
the hive mind is becoming more menacing. So like early on,
you know, the power outage, Sure, maybe that was random,
(27:18):
but maybe that was like a shot across the back
of like, hey, look what we can do. Oh, your
grocery store is empty, you know, not a not a
coincidence that we're showing you again how much you do
rely on us. And then this time felt like the
most menacing, with them circling her and they know they
can't do anything, but they're there and they keep coming.
So I'm wondering if next episode, when Zosha recovers doesn't recover,
(27:43):
at what point do they change and stop playing so nice?
Like because I think never, I think you never, really,
she she I think the rules that she wrote down
are not just for her, there for us. They can't
do these things, they can't lie, they're non violent, they're
just but it's gonna work within those rules somehow, which
(28:03):
is a wonderful, like creative thought starter. I think for
how this is gonna work because I.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
Don't think the way you're talking about, like if it
goes more in a more confrontational route, she's screwed, then
we could she's one screwed and then you go in
the realm of like you know, guns and attacked. I
don't think it's ever gonna go that way. I think
it's gonna I think it's gonna stay nonviolent.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
Yeah, I agree with you.
Speaker 4 (28:28):
Boo just made a really great point in the chat
which I think is really more creepy almost, which is
like he said, I think people want the mind virus to.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
Be menacing, but it's not. It just is it's nature.
Speaker 4 (28:42):
And I do think that is really scary in itself
because then you cannot contend with it, you cannot emotionally
communicate with it. You just have to fight against essentially
Darwinism and evolution and nature, and that is kind of
a crazy battle to take on.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
And with regards to the like the the blackout and
all this, I think that the hive mind has a
thing that it is programmed to do, and it's whatever
that is. It needs power, it needs food resources centralized
so that it can do the thing, like whatever the
thing is. And Carol and these other immune people are
(29:25):
really just kind of like a side note to accomplishing
whatever the main mission is. And so we still don't
know what that main mission is. But I think all
of these other things going on around Carol that seem
ominous are just basically the fact that the Hive mind
is getting on with whatever its main plan is.
Speaker 4 (29:46):
Does the Hive mind the energy that they need to
do whatever they're going to do, does it need exactly
you know, eight billion people? And that is why the
last eleven is so important, Like have they worked out so?
Speaker 3 (30:00):
Like I'm so interested why they need them.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
I don't think they need them. I think they're just
a threat. I think they could like clearly we know
that there's a way to reverse it. You don't want
a handful, you know, any amount of people immune one
pulling resources away from the hive mind mission with like
gallivanting on air Force one and creating vast harems and
(30:26):
whatever the fuck.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
Else they're deciding to do.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
And two, you don't want people working on a cure.
You want them, you want it just like you want
your your you know, your flank completely guarded. And I
think that's why they care, is that it's just too
dangerous to like leave them out. I want to ask
about the the uh, the interview with Larry, because it's like,
(30:50):
I don't know how you would stop yourself from asking
these questions like hey, what is X?
Speaker 2 (30:55):
What did they really think about me?
Speaker 5 (30:57):
It's like so stating feeling so what did Ellen think of?
Writing answer? She was absolute worst? Rosie Ian. Could you
if you were in.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
This situation, would you be able to resist asking the
hive mind?
Speaker 2 (31:19):
Hey what did they think of? What did people say? I?
Speaker 4 (31:21):
I would have to ask them to just get me
so much weed that I would just not think.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
I would just be like I would just be in
my house smoking.
Speaker 4 (31:30):
Weed and like watching movies and shit, though I will
say aboot it, just say I can't believe she hasn't
asked about Area fifty one yet?
Speaker 5 (31:37):
That doing Yeah, I like.
Speaker 3 (31:42):
Who Yeah, It's like, uh, and that is what I
would be doing. I could not. I think if I
if I got into.
Speaker 4 (31:50):
The asking about personal people in my life, they wouldn't
need to like get rid of me. I would just
go crazy, So I think I would have to stop myself,
but I would be asking, like, tell me every redact,
every file, tell me about mk Ultra, what with the government.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
Yeah, when it really seems like we're heading towards the
place maybe in the finale, where the hive mind is
ready to assimilate them. Do we think we see that
this season where the hive Mind's like, we crack the code,
we figured it out, we got youa Carol come in
for a meeting, or they show up at her house
or however they managed to do it.
Speaker 4 (32:26):
What do we think I feel like, realistically, it's not
going to be this simple, because this is a little
bit like Paraguay x Macana. But I do feel like
maybe we're when that happens, he is going to have
the place or the plan or the next step, like Aaron.
If if it was to do with a you know, signal,
(32:47):
I could imagine him showing up outside wherever the office
is with like a crazy guitar, you know, playing an
insane like off sound register that kind of disrupts the
signal and allows her to run away or something. I
feel like Paraguay guy is gonna be a big paw
of stopping the assimilation and getting us to season two.
Speaker 3 (33:11):
That's that's my guess.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
He seems more hopeful than Air Force one guy.
Speaker 5 (33:16):
I'll give him that.
Speaker 4 (33:17):
Yes, definitely, it would be funny if that ended up
being Carol's ally for season two and they just totally
twisted us.
Speaker 3 (33:25):
I don't believe it. I would believe.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
Let me ask you this, because if we do move
to a place where they have to go on the
run from the Hive mind or whatever, you know, because
they're going to assimilate them. I it's like when she
wheels Zosha out, I'm like, that's not far enough. You
gotta go so far because all of the resources of
(33:47):
Earth are like being used right now to There's probably
five satellites that are watching where Carol goes, multiple Reaper drones,
like I don't know how far.
Speaker 5 (33:59):
I don't know. You could go anywhere to get away
on Amazon or something maybe I don't know, but.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
They have to fly you, Like, how do you get there?
Speaker 4 (34:09):
The surveillance state is being used against you in the
world's most horrible way, which again I feel like is
another great Vince Gilligan thing here where he's established what
you know in the seventies would have been a really
sick paranoia thrillery, like the seventies, the amazing seventies versions
of Invasion of the Body snatches, but like because of
(34:29):
the state that we live in and the way that
we are so based on convenience and stuff, it takes
away a lot of the usual We're going to run
away because now there's surveillance cameras everywhere, there's ring cameras,
there's Amazon. All these things that we have been using
for convenience are now being turned against Carol and used
to surveil her, which I think is really creepy and interesting. Okay,
(34:53):
Aboo says, doesn't think this is about running away or
escaping the hive, Mike. He thinks it's going to be
out smacking it. How do you think you out small
a hive mind?
Speaker 1 (35:03):
Though, Well, this is where we're just gonna have to
put ourselves in the hands of Vince Gilligan. If there's
thinking about breaking bad or better call Saul and how
many times in the middle of seasons heading towards finales
were their intractable problems to me? This is Vince's trademark.
(35:25):
He himself, he paints his characters into corners where you're like,
I really don't know how it is possible to get
out of this, and the times as we've you know,
he's done a lot of interviews, for instance about the
final season with the cold open with the M sixty
machine gun, where he's like, I wrote that scene and
(35:46):
I didn't know where the machine gun was coming back.
I didn't know what it was going to be used for.
And I think that we're we're headed for the same
kind of experience here where I really don't know. And
I agree with Abou in the kind of like in
the larger sense that this is going to be outsmarting
(36:06):
them using the physics of the hive mind against it,
the fact that it can't lie like as we saw
Carol kind of doing in this episode.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
But in terms of defeating it, I got no clue.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
I really don't have any clue how it would be possible.
I guess maybe they could strategically try and cure people
that they think could help them.
Speaker 5 (36:30):
Once they figure out if they could do it, she.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
Would have to figure out what makes her immune, because
you can't just cure someone. We're going to have to
figure that out, Yeah, and then risk them just getting
infected again. All it takes is another box of donuts
and ear out.
Speaker 4 (36:44):
I think my favorite thing about this show is after
last week, I would have never seen this week's episode coming.
Speaker 3 (36:52):
And I think the best thing is that next week
we could be in.
Speaker 4 (36:57):
A situation where so much has changed that all of
this conversation where like you know, either two weeks ahead
or two weeks behind of whatever's gonna happen, because he
does build these things in so well. So yeah, I mean, Vince,
you're doing it again, and I'm glad everyone is loving
the show.
Speaker 5 (37:15):
Yeah, yeah, I've.
Speaker 6 (37:16):
Watched ahead a little bit and the status quote does
continue to change, is all I'm gonna say.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
Who let me ask you this, But could we be
going to a place where like Paraguay guy is like
an alien, you know, like from a refugee a thing,
or like yeah, refugee from this titheline somewhere, or just
(37:42):
because it does appear that he was ready for it
and had hunkered down knowing it was going to happen.
I love that possibly before it happened. And then the
question is how.
Speaker 4 (37:57):
I think my favorite thing about that theory is something
that this show is playing in is scope the horror
of eight million, eight billion people. They can all be
used to hunt you down. You're the only one left.
So in that way, the notion of there being many
other planets with life fits that scope. So I would
(38:17):
also be interested if he is either a survivor of
a previous hive mind attempt, or if he was a
refugee from that planet, or if he's just another alien
who had come to Earth for whatever reason but could
sense that something off was going on. I think that
a lot of shows with this tone would not be
able to pull off like a different alien character.
Speaker 3 (38:39):
But I can absolutely.
Speaker 4 (38:41):
Imagine Vince making the world's weirdest body couple, just like
he did in Breaking Bad, or in Betters or Corseul
and it's like Carol and this cranky old alien who
is just trying to retire on Earth or whatever comedian
in twist.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
To your point, Rosie, it really feels as if it
could go anywhere. I don't It could get huge. We
could end up in space, it could end up half
the planet dead. It could get tiny, they could live underground.
I don't really know. I have no idea where it
could go. Well, the show continues to fascinate us and
(39:16):
we're gonna be following it all season. On the next
episode of x ra Vision, we're diving into Welcome to
Diry episode five.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
That's it for this episode. Thanks for listening.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
X ray Vision is hosted by Jason Concepcion and Rosie
Night and is a production of iHeart Podcast.
Speaker 4 (39:34):
Our executive producers are Joel Monique and Aaron Klefman.
Speaker 2 (39:38):
Our supervising producer is Abusafar.
Speaker 4 (39:40):
Our producers are Common Laurent Dean Jonathan and Bai Wag.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
A theme song is by Brian Vasquez, with alternate theme
songs by Aaron Kauffman.
Speaker 4 (39:48):
Special thanks to Saul Rubin, Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman, and Heidi.
Speaker 3 (39:52):
Our discord moderate, though
Warning, today's episode contained spoilers for the excellent fourth episode
of Pluribus.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
On Apple TV Plus.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
He warned, Hello, my name is Jason Sepsion and I'm
Rosey Night and welcome back to ext revision of the
(00:29):
podcast where we dive deep.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
It's your favorite shows, movies, comics and pop culture comedy
from My Heart podcast. We're're bringing you three episodes a week.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
In today's episode, we're doing it dot guys.
Speaker 4 (00:39):
It's episode four of Pluribus and things are getting crazy.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
We will be bringing in super producer.
Speaker 4 (00:45):
Ian and even a little bit of super producer Aaron
to talk about our theories and schemes and scams and
what is Vince Gilligan up to after our recap.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Okay, Pluribus episode four, please Carol. We open, apparently with
Paraguay man. A timer sounds and we see that this
mysterious gentleman is scanning radio frequencies, listening to them and
then crossing them off. He's sitting at a ham radio
(01:16):
set and it appears he is in some sort of
storage unit facility. There's a sign in Spanish that says,
you know you gotta pay every thirty days? Are you
going to be you know, all your the lock on
your storage things can be cut and all your stuff's
gonna be victed. He clearly has not been outside the
(01:39):
room in a while because he's picking through.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
The trash and he's just like licking the tops of cans.
Speaker 5 (01:45):
He's hungry.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
It's like a fortified bunk. He's hungry. It's like a
bunker in here.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
He looks outside and sees someone arrive take a trio
of food that had been left for him, and leave
another spar new tray of fresh food, much like they're
doing for Carol. He arms himself with a tire ron,
goes out, tips over the tray of food, comes back
in uh and then writes a sign basically apologizing to
(02:13):
whoever owns these storage units, and begins like cutting them
open looking for any food.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
He comes away with.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
A horrifying collection of edible stuff.
Speaker 5 (02:26):
A real struggle. It's a very simid struggle, the ultimate
struggle meal.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
It's like a three cans of dog food and like I,
I don't even remember what the other stuff is, but it's.
Speaker 6 (02:42):
Mainly pockets of sugar and like a pouch of some liquid,
unidentified liquid, very very rough.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
As he is eating this wolfing this down and just
trying to like just wrestle it down. The phone rings
in its Carol, and we see that phone call exchange
from the other side, and then he writes in his notebook,
caroless Turkish question mark.
Speaker 5 (03:08):
We go to Carol.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
It was fun. We go to the hospital. Carol's leaving
the hospital. She's her car is totally fucking shit. So
she takes a police cruiser. The hive Mine is like,
how do you like the police cruiser. People on the
highway are like waving at her as she drives by.
She goes home and she finds that the hive Mine
(03:29):
is like freshening up her whole house, cleaning up the
grenade damage. She's like, I thought, what are you doing?
And they're like, don't you remember, like right after the
grenade exploded, we asked you if we could clean the
house and you were like yeah.
Speaker 5 (03:44):
And it was absent mindedly.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Yeah, and we went with it. The cleanup crew includes
the mayor of the town and the house looks great.
It does look great. In her office, she she's got
a whiteboard of her next Wakaro book that's planned out.
It made me want to buy this whiteboard by the way.
Speaker 6 (04:04):
Yeah, it looked very cool with the layers. Yeah, it
was sick.
Speaker 5 (04:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
The multiple leaves, so she moves that aside, almost erases
the new book, but doesn't, and she starts a new board.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
What I know about them?
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Uh, And it's like eager to please, they can't kill
they don't play favorites. They are trying to change me,
and they're weirdly honest. She goes out, gets a volunteer
from the crew.
Speaker 5 (04:30):
She doesn't want the.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Mayor, so she calls in a guy who we learned
is or was named Larry, tells everybody else to leave,
and then she grills Larry about various things, including her books.
It's like, what do we what does the hive mind
think of my books? They love them. They kind of
are like very bullshitty at first, like they haven't read them.
But then she's like, no, I need you to like
(04:52):
actually prove to me. And they're like specifically this line
and that line and the exchange you know that happened
here in this particular scene. And so then she asked Larry, Okay,
well what do you think about And this is like
remind currently online there's people are asking groc the x Ai,
(05:16):
like who is more physically fit Lebron James or Elon
Musk And this reminded me of that. Yeah, it's like
straight up to saying, well, technically Lebron is like more
physically explosive, but like when you look at the holistic
fitness of Elon Musk is like one of the fittest
people who has like ever lived. So she asks, Okay, Larry,
(05:39):
what do you think about my work in comparison to Shakespeare?
And Larry's like, basically the same, just like it's on
the level of Shakespeare. Basically like with Carro think about
it as it's like modern Dame Macbeth.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
It's true. And then actually.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Larry makes a kind of like compelling point, which is
to the people that love your books, who are part
of us, they these works deeply touch them, like there's
a there is a fan of yours that's part of us.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
That was like in a dark place she was gonna
commit suicide. And then it's like your book came out
and it really found her where she needed to be found.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
And then Carol is like, okay, what did Helen think
of my look? And then there's like a very troubling.
Speaker 5 (06:27):
Pause right, and it's like you've got to come up.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
You've got to have these responses quicker, I think, if
you're the hive mind. But so the hive mind is like,
first response is well, Helen loved you, okay, and.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Then and then the high mind's like, well, I mean
you said.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
She's off limits, so like, let's tell and Carol is
like really presses, and then Larry's like, well, she thought
they were harmless.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
They were like cotton candy, like a snack. And then
Carols like, well, what about my unpublished work that I've
been working on for five years, the very personal book?
And then there's a very very long pause, and Larry's
like trying to escape the conversation, and Carol like drops
the hammer and is like, if you tell me it
will make me happy. You tell me what Helen thought.
(07:24):
And Helen thought it was fine. It's just it was fine.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
And then apparently we learn that the reason that Helen
had pushed for Carol to release it is that she
had strategized with Val, her editor, and they both thought, well,
it won't harm the Wikaro brand, it won't harm the line,
and it will make Carol happy, so just put it
out and it'll be like basically a harmless thing to
(07:50):
put out.
Speaker 6 (07:51):
Right and will fuck up the bag. Everybody will still
be good.
Speaker 5 (07:54):
Just let her have her phone, you'll feel good. She'll
feel good about it.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
So then Carol dismissus Larry and writes on the whiteboard,
can't lie.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Carol goes to see Zosha. She apologizes for the whole
thing with grenade. She's like, I didn't understand how it
worked with you guys, and then she interviews Zosha and
asks you know about Davis Tackler, telling her that at
the time, he didn't the hive mind, didn't really know
how it all worked, and it's like, well, how does
it work now? And so she's like, yeah, we know
(08:23):
a lot more now basically, and Carol's like, how do
we How do I fix it?
Speaker 5 (08:28):
How do I reverse it?
Speaker 2 (08:29):
And they're like, we can't. Sorry, that's like offline, that's.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
Something we can't do, which basically tells Carol by process
of elimination that it is reversible and big deal. And
then so Zosha's like, don't worry about it, because soon
enough you're going to you're gonna really understand it, which
means I think that they're speeding towards the solution, towards
assimilating Caroly into the hive mind. Carol asks Zosha to
(08:57):
tell her and this is like, you know, we talked
last week about oh man, they're really toning the line
with Carol potentially being unlikable.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Like why is she?
Speaker 1 (09:05):
I get that she wants to fix everything, but I
don't get the urgency. And now you get the urgency.
And this is when you're like Vince Gilligan master, because
he gives.
Speaker 5 (09:13):
You that little bit, it all makes sense.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
It all makes sense now in a way that is
like whoa.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
And we discover and Zosha tells us that Carol was
in a conversion therapy camp put there by her parents
and it was like the worst experience that you could
imagine that everybody was horrendous, but with smiles on their faces.
And basically Carol is saying, this reminds me of that.
You see, Zosha, how this is exactly the same. They're
(09:41):
the people of the conversion camp didn't take my agency
and my consent into their decision making. And you're not
doing it either. You're just doing this to me, trying
to do it to me. Why are you trying to
do this when I don't want it and then have mind.
Zosha is basically like, well, you don't know what it's
like to be us.
Speaker 5 (10:01):
You know what it's like to be you, but you
don't know.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
How actually cool it is to like completely be subsumed
into the hive mind, which I'm not buying it, but
I have to give it to the hive mind.
Speaker 5 (10:12):
They do come up clever responses let's take home break, and.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
We were back with the rest of their tute.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
And we're at Carol then goes to the pharmacy of
the hospital and flips to the drug manual, finds like
information on sodium pentathal, which is like the old school
truth serum, like from like.
Speaker 5 (10:46):
Cold War spy shit.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
And a guy comes in catches her and she's like, no,
I want heroin. We learned that Carol was a heroin addict.
They got a look over heroin. He's like, oh, I
don't know about heroin. He's like, what about oxy? What
about something else? It's like, no, I want heroin, and
they're like, okay, well it's coming. It's eight miles away,
but it's on its way.
Speaker 4 (11:05):
This was a huge one where I was like, okay, Carol,
I'm like, I feel like you're using all your past
to find potential ways to evade this, and again Vince
Gill again like what he's the master. It was really
funny because three is such a slow burn, and I
do still stand by. I don't think it's as strong
as one two and definitely not as strong as this,
(11:27):
but it does all come together here in a way.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
Just start to go.
Speaker 4 (11:31):
Oh, okay, my guy, okay, I see what you're doing here.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
An incredible setup episode, absolutely so, she gets the heroin
and she also steals some other stuff from the pharmacy
which they don't know about. She goes home, she dumps
the heroin out, sets up a video camera to record
herself and then using herself as like the experimentee, injects
herself with the sodium pentathol and then.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Just tapes what comes out. And after she wakes up
after like being fully blacked out, she plays the SD
card and it's very funny. There's like a lot of
blabbering and slurring and like reading her own works in
English accents and saying she's complaining about Zosha, saying how
(12:18):
annoying she is, but also like clearly attracted to her,
being like, well, she's also very fuckable. And then Carol
throws away the SD card and clearly she has some
sort of plan, and then she goes back to the hospital.
She takes the handcuffs and stuff out of the police car.
She begins wheeling Zosha away, like let's go for a walk,
(12:39):
it'll be nice.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
They get to the elevator, she looks around her cameras
and then she puts the serum, the truth serum, into
Zosha's ivy bag, and then wheels her out to a
little plaza and begins to question her, like how do
I reverse it?
Speaker 2 (12:54):
What do I do? How do I change this?
Speaker 5 (12:56):
Tell me?
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Now, Zosha is like weeping, weeping. The hive mind pours
out of the surrounding buildings to like, you know, stop
what's going on. Carol handcuffs herself to Zosha so they
can't stop it, orders them to back away, and continues
like asking how do I reverse it?
Speaker 2 (13:15):
How versa? And now the whole crowd is like doing
is chaded? Carol, Please, Carol, please, Carol please.
Speaker 5 (13:21):
They're all crying too.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Crying, weeping, and then Zosha passes out, falls on the
floor and one of the timeline is like, she's dying
of cardiac arrest.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
May we save her life? And then she's like, yes,
go save her life, and that's where we end. Let's
see a quick break and then talk about this incredible episode,
and we're back so much to talk about what an
(13:54):
awesome episode of the show. What did you think, Rosie,
what are your thoughts?
Speaker 4 (13:57):
I mean, unbelievable episode, starting to really get to the
point of, oh, I see where this is going now.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
Yes, yeah, a huge.
Speaker 4 (14:07):
Big emotional episode, but also finally giving us some more
of the steaks. And also, you know, I love somebody
who is a complicated and unlikable character who has a reason,
which is not often something that you see a lot
of times.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
They'll just be like, she is a bitter woman.
Speaker 4 (14:25):
So I think, like the big reveal here about conversion
therapy and how similar this feels huge. Yeah, just so
well done and so really I did not see it
coming at all, and I think there was just there's
a balance between using something like that as a so
called twist or using it to further the plot. But
(14:47):
I think here it feels very deserved and establishes a
lot makes a lot of sense to do with what.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
We know about Carol and the world.
Speaker 4 (14:55):
I also loved the truth Serum experiment because, like I've
written quite extent about the kind of history of truth
Serum and the way it was influenced by comic book
stories and the way it was influenced by you know,
the oss and it's really really interesting to see that
here and also to see I think we end this
(15:16):
episode with a very interesting quandary, which is like, how
much like physical power do they have over Carol? And
do they need every single person on earth to be
involved in it for it to be successful, because otherwise,
why wouldn't you just kill her? Like if she is
not going along with the plan and now she's like
trying to uncover what it is and reverse it. I
(15:39):
find that to be a very interesting wrinkle, and I
want to know why they need Carol, So yeah, just
really intrigued. I think this is gonna secure people. They
can't kill people because it would make her unhappy, but
why Like what is the nature of the swarm? You know,
(16:00):
so they have a biological imperative I guess to not kill,
but I need to know why and I need to
know how that works with their invasion plans and how
the hive mind works.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
So I'm very intrigued.
Speaker 4 (16:14):
And I think that this is going to be the
episode where if people are not already hooked, this one
is going to have.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
Them hooked in.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
Yeah, I totally agree.
Speaker 4 (16:22):
Also, congrats to Vince because this is they are saying,
like the biggest Apple TV drama series launch.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
Now do I technically think this is you know, low
bar but still.
Speaker 4 (16:35):
Low Bark is also like what else counts as a drama,
like a severance a drama. But it did get six
point four million hours logged in the first two episodes
according to Nielsen, So it's people are hooking onto it
and I'm really excited to keep talking about with you guys.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
So we had, you know, like I thought that Paraguay
guy as we are calling him at the moment, was
like scanning for other survivors. But super producer Aaron has
a theory that I love. Aaron, come in and tell us.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
In the beginning, the guy in Paraguay is checking a
radio frequency, waiting for like a minute and then crossing
off each one, and he's going frequency by frequency. I
think he's not looking for survivors. I think he's looking
for how they communicate, so obviously like a hive mind needs,
it's not just like some telepathic thing. I think.
Speaker 5 (17:29):
I think they're using somehow.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Yeah, I think there's a frequency they're using. And also
I think it was back in episode one or two
they specifically mentioned like, oh, all the cell phone towers
are down, So I think that the bringing down the
cell phone towers is to free up all these high
frequency radio waves that they can use to communicate. Now
he doesn't find it, so I'm not positive that this
is the case, but that's what I think they're hinting
(17:54):
in with him doing all this research, and it also
just makes me think, this guy I like that more
than we do, which is really intriguing.
Speaker 4 (18:03):
I love that read Aaron, especially because I think that
makes sense. And also, if you think about it, a
classic Hive of Mine story, right, usually you have to
kill the mother figure, the central figure, so trying to
find out where it goes back to makes a lot
of sense. I also like the notion that I love
(18:24):
a story like even you know, going back to something
as kind of campy as like a Mars attacks.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
I think it's always really fun when there is.
Speaker 4 (18:31):
A story about somebody who thought that aliens were real
and then they are real? And this is definitely giving.
This guy was prepared for something. Maybe he knew about it,
maybe he didn't, Maybe he just had always been waiting
for an alien invasion. But I think that's gonna add
some really interesting stuff. And I love that read Aaron
I hadn't thought of it.
Speaker 5 (18:50):
I love it too.
Speaker 4 (18:51):
But that makes in the sense of the show. I
think makes so much more sense. And yeah, I mean,
what a show, Jason.
Speaker 3 (19:03):
I want to make theories. I was gonna say, well,
I want.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
To raise something that I think goes along with Aaron's theory.
And so Carol gets the Truth serum and through chemical
means does manage to cut Zosha off from the Hive Mind,
like they lose contact with her and she loses Wi Fi.
She loses Hive Mind WiFi right, but she goes into
(19:26):
cardiac arrest. And so I wonder also if there is
not some huge danger to cutting off the Wi Fi
without knowing the way to do it, because it seems
like you could potentially like exterminate the globe if you
do it incorrectly. What do we think about that we
(19:47):
already have examples of her like getting angry and shutting
them down and then yeah, causes huge exactly.
Speaker 5 (19:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
I think this is the next conflict she's going to
run into, is she figures out a way to do it,
but it's so damaging that she going to second guess it.
Speaker 3 (20:01):
Well, she also was considering just a nuke, you know.
Speaker 4 (20:04):
And this is an interesting thing because there is actually
this is the second series that we have right now
alongside it Welcome to Derry, where it's just like, guys
the nukes. There may be nukes before the end of
both of these shows. But I do kind of like
that the main conflict between Carol and the Hive Mind
(20:26):
is actually about her having to treat them humanely, Like
she could just be going to a Walmart and getting
a gun and shooting a bunch of people down, but
her actual hatred and viciousness and bitterness around humanity is
being constantly questioned by the fact that these people don't
(20:46):
have agency in their bodies, which we now know why
she relates to. So I do think that going forward,
she is not only going to be trying to find
ways to not get assimilated. I think I think that
she will be trying to and it will start with
figures like zosher and stuff who she knows and is
making connections with, where she is trying to free them,
(21:09):
and that is going to end up, I think being
a major part, because freeing them is a side effect
of getting rid of the hive mind.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
But I think that freeing them is.
Speaker 4 (21:18):
Going to become more important to her than not getting assimilated,
and that's going to be that personal journey for her.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
What do we think is going to be the reason
that she is immune?
Speaker 6 (21:29):
Ian, Oh, it's still like up in the air for me.
I have no idea what it could be. I have
a feeling it's going to be something that we haven't
even clocked yet, or maybe it's never even explained. I
don't know, but I think it's still too early to tell.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
I think there're so few survivors. There's nothing that I think, like, oh,
there are only twelve people in the world who have
this sequencing of DNA, or only twelve people in the
world who went to conversion therapy survived, Like, I think
it's random. I can't think of anything that truly is
going to be like, oh, because she happened to eat
(22:06):
this one packaging of ring things twenty years ago that
were yeah, she's okay now, or something I would say.
Speaker 3 (22:15):
I do think it's that you're probably right, Aaron. I
think that it's going to be.
Speaker 4 (22:19):
Such a specific series of events that had to happen
for people to become immune, the same way is that
people come immune to any illness.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
You know that. I think that you're right.
Speaker 4 (22:31):
I don't think that the why is necessarily going to
be the most important, because lots of people are traumatized,
lots of people have had terrible experiences, way too many
people have gone to conversion camps, you know, ban that
shit banned in most places. But like, I also think
that something really interesting here is the way that this
(22:52):
does seem to also keep tying back to like AI
and data centers. Even though I know that this was
a show that he made ten years ago, the show
like he started to make and he started to plan,
But this idea of how chat GPT always uses other
people's memories and regurgitates them and kind of everything is plagiarized,
(23:12):
that is seeming more and more like an important plot
point here. And also if we're talking about how they're
staying connected, that notion of you know, wi fi or
the amount of energy it would actually need for the
hive mind to be able to communicate against each other.
(23:32):
Also seems like a resources game, you know. So I'm
very interested to see how those threads tie together.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
Ian, what are your thoughts on it?
Speaker 6 (23:42):
Well, I have an interesting question that I wanted to
post to the group actually sure related to the truth
serum sequence at the end, where clearly Carol's trying to
compel Zosha to reveal this information that the hive mind
does not want to reveal, and it clearly causes her
to have a physical reaction. You know, why do why
do we think it's so painful for them to they
(24:05):
they they're not lying, but they can clearly withhold information,
but like when it's forced or they're compelled, it like
causes them harm. I wonder why why do we think
that's happening? And then the other question that I was
wondering is like our is the highline capable of experiencing
negative emotions? Are they capable of getting upset or angry
with Cary?
Speaker 2 (24:24):
They're all crying at the end, right.
Speaker 4 (24:26):
So, well, I would also want to say, like, now
we know why it's so horrible to Carol. Can I
pose something incredibly depressing, like are they doing this because
she hates it?
Speaker 3 (24:39):
Like do they know that because of Helen?
Speaker 4 (24:42):
Like is the whole we are so happy all the time,
we love everything.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
It's great, that's like an act.
Speaker 4 (24:49):
I wonder that because I do think that it is
now so specifically reminding her of that. And we know
they have all of Helen's memories, so it seems a
random that that would.
Speaker 3 (25:01):
Just be the specific version of it. So I wonder
that also.
Speaker 4 (25:05):
Ian The thing about the compelling I think is really
interesting because it proves that there is a hive mind,
but it is being controlled by someone.
Speaker 3 (25:15):
Because if it was.
Speaker 4 (25:16):
Just a soul hive mind where everyone was you know,
equally high vy or whatever, you would probably be able
to tell. But there's something stopping them, like a compulsion.
Maybe it's a biological imperative, maybe it's part of their
Ilien programming. But yeah, also as well, just traditionally, that
kind of sodium penthole like truth serum is like a
(25:36):
horrific experience as well, like it's made to make you
feel fucked up and and and kind of stops.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
There's no such thing obviously as like a real truth serum.
Speaker 4 (25:46):
It's more about how much can they fuck up your
body and brain till you just start going holy, this
is how I feel, This is how I feel, This
is how I feel.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
Right.
Speaker 4 (25:54):
So I thought that was also a very interesting because
again it's about Carol kind of she's going to start
to learn their humanity as she goes oh with.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
The Zosia heart attack. It's unclear to me whether it
was pressing her on the way to reverse it or
her disconnection from the hive mind that actually caused her
to collapse.
Speaker 5 (26:19):
It might be a combination.
Speaker 4 (26:20):
I wondered that too, Like, did the hive mind actually
want her to collapse because she was gonna break because
they would be able to feel, or it just.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
Might be that it might be that, you know, like
we don't know how this thing works.
Speaker 5 (26:33):
Right, but it might be there.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
Her unconscious you know, biological rhythms, her heartbeat, her breathing
are somehow managed or shut or or woven through the
hive mind, so that disconnecting them actually makes it so
her body doesn't work anymore.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
I mean, her body also took the brunt of a
grenade like three days ago, so.
Speaker 3 (26:55):
She's going through it. She's going through it she's going through.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
It's been a rough weight for zosh I do have
a question for everyone about sure kind of Carol and
Zoshia hive mind. It's you know, I think Carol is
getting less angry, She's becoming more focused and trying to
be a little more strategic, I think, whereas I think
the hive mind is becoming more menacing. So like early on,
you know, the power outage, Sure, maybe that was random,
(27:18):
but maybe that was like a shot across the back
of like, hey, look what we can do. Oh, your
grocery store is empty, you know, not a not a
coincidence that we're showing you again how much you do
rely on us. And then this time felt like the
most menacing, with them circling her and they know they
can't do anything, but they're there and they keep coming.
So I'm wondering if next episode, when Zosha recovers doesn't recover,
(27:43):
at what point do they change and stop playing so nice?
Like because I think never, I think you never, really,
she she I think the rules that she wrote down
are not just for her, there for us. They can't
do these things, they can't lie, they're non violent, they're
just but it's gonna work within those rules somehow, which
(28:03):
is a wonderful, like creative thought starter. I think for
how this is gonna work because I.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
Don't think the way you're talking about, like if it
goes more in a more confrontational route, she's screwed, then
we could she's one screwed and then you go in
the realm of like you know, guns and attacked. I
don't think it's ever gonna go that way. I think
it's gonna I think it's gonna stay nonviolent.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
Yeah, I agree with you.
Speaker 4 (28:28):
Boo just made a really great point in the chat
which I think is really more creepy almost, which is
like he said, I think people want the mind virus to.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
Be menacing, but it's not. It just is it's nature.
Speaker 4 (28:42):
And I do think that is really scary in itself
because then you cannot contend with it, you cannot emotionally
communicate with it. You just have to fight against essentially
Darwinism and evolution and nature, and that is kind of
a crazy battle to take on.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
And with regards to the like the the blackout and
all this, I think that the hive mind has a
thing that it is programmed to do, and it's whatever
that is. It needs power, it needs food resources centralized
so that it can do the thing, like whatever the
thing is. And Carol and these other immune people are
(29:25):
really just kind of like a side note to accomplishing
whatever the main mission is. And so we still don't
know what that main mission is. But I think all
of these other things going on around Carol that seem
ominous are just basically the fact that the Hive mind
is getting on with whatever its main plan is.
Speaker 4 (29:46):
Does the Hive mind the energy that they need to
do whatever they're going to do, does it need exactly
you know, eight billion people? And that is why the
last eleven is so important, Like have they worked out so?
Speaker 3 (30:00):
Like I'm so interested why they need them.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
I don't think they need them. I think they're just
a threat. I think they could like clearly we know
that there's a way to reverse it. You don't want
a handful, you know, any amount of people immune one
pulling resources away from the hive mind mission with like
gallivanting on air Force one and creating vast harems and
(30:26):
whatever the fuck.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
Else they're deciding to do.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
And two, you don't want people working on a cure.
You want them, you want it just like you want
your your you know, your flank completely guarded. And I
think that's why they care, is that it's just too
dangerous to like leave them out. I want to ask
about the the uh, the interview with Larry, because it's like,
(30:50):
I don't know how you would stop yourself from asking
these questions like hey, what is X?
Speaker 2 (30:55):
What did they really think about me?
Speaker 5 (30:57):
It's like so stating feeling so what did Ellen think of?
Writing answer? She was absolute worst? Rosie Ian. Could you
if you were in.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
This situation, would you be able to resist asking the
hive mind?
Speaker 2 (31:19):
Hey what did they think of? What did people say? I?
Speaker 4 (31:21):
I would have to ask them to just get me
so much weed that I would just not think.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
I would just be like I would just be in
my house smoking.
Speaker 4 (31:30):
Weed and like watching movies and shit, though I will
say aboot it, just say I can't believe she hasn't
asked about Area fifty one yet?
Speaker 5 (31:37):
That doing Yeah, I like.
Speaker 3 (31:42):
Who Yeah, It's like, uh, and that is what I
would be doing. I could not. I think if I
if I got into.
Speaker 4 (31:50):
The asking about personal people in my life, they wouldn't
need to like get rid of me. I would just
go crazy, So I think I would have to stop myself,
but I would be asking, like, tell me every redact,
every file, tell me about mk Ultra, what with the government.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
Yeah, when it really seems like we're heading towards the
place maybe in the finale, where the hive mind is
ready to assimilate them. Do we think we see that
this season where the hive Mind's like, we crack the code,
we figured it out, we got youa Carol come in
for a meeting, or they show up at her house
or however they managed to do it.
Speaker 4 (32:26):
What do we think I feel like, realistically, it's not
going to be this simple, because this is a little
bit like Paraguay x Macana. But I do feel like
maybe we're when that happens, he is going to have
the place or the plan or the next step, like Aaron.
If if it was to do with a you know, signal,
(32:47):
I could imagine him showing up outside wherever the office
is with like a crazy guitar, you know, playing an
insane like off sound register that kind of disrupts the
signal and allows her to run away or something. I
feel like Paraguay guy is gonna be a big paw
of stopping the assimilation and getting us to season two.
Speaker 3 (33:11):
That's that's my guess.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
He seems more hopeful than Air Force one guy.
Speaker 5 (33:16):
I'll give him that.
Speaker 4 (33:17):
Yes, definitely, it would be funny if that ended up
being Carol's ally for season two and they just totally
twisted us.
Speaker 3 (33:25):
I don't believe it. I would believe.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
Let me ask you this, because if we do move
to a place where they have to go on the
run from the Hive mind or whatever, you know, because
they're going to assimilate them. I it's like when she
wheels Zosha out, I'm like, that's not far enough. You
gotta go so far because all of the resources of
(33:47):
Earth are like being used right now to There's probably
five satellites that are watching where Carol goes, multiple Reaper drones,
like I don't know how far.
Speaker 5 (33:59):
I don't know. You could go anywhere to get away
on Amazon or something maybe I don't know, but.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
They have to fly you, Like, how do you get there?
Speaker 4 (34:09):
The surveillance state is being used against you in the
world's most horrible way, which again I feel like is
another great Vince Gilligan thing here where he's established what
you know in the seventies would have been a really
sick paranoia thrillery, like the seventies, the amazing seventies versions
of Invasion of the Body snatches, but like because of
(34:29):
the state that we live in and the way that
we are so based on convenience and stuff, it takes
away a lot of the usual We're going to run
away because now there's surveillance cameras everywhere, there's ring cameras,
there's Amazon. All these things that we have been using
for convenience are now being turned against Carol and used
to surveil her, which I think is really creepy and interesting. Okay,
(34:53):
Aboo says, doesn't think this is about running away or
escaping the hive, Mike. He thinks it's going to be
out smacking it. How do you think you out small
a hive mind?
Speaker 1 (35:03):
Though, Well, this is where we're just gonna have to
put ourselves in the hands of Vince Gilligan. If there's
thinking about breaking bad or better call Saul and how
many times in the middle of seasons heading towards finales
were their intractable problems to me? This is Vince's trademark.
(35:25):
He himself, he paints his characters into corners where you're like,
I really don't know how it is possible to get
out of this, and the times as we've you know,
he's done a lot of interviews, for instance about the
final season with the cold open with the M sixty
machine gun, where he's like, I wrote that scene and
(35:46):
I didn't know where the machine gun was coming back.
I didn't know what it was going to be used for.
And I think that we're we're headed for the same
kind of experience here where I really don't know. And
I agree with Abou in the kind of like in
the larger sense that this is going to be outsmarting
(36:06):
them using the physics of the hive mind against it,
the fact that it can't lie like as we saw
Carol kind of doing in this episode.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
But in terms of defeating it, I got no clue.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
I really don't have any clue how it would be possible.
I guess maybe they could strategically try and cure people
that they think could help them.
Speaker 5 (36:30):
Once they figure out if they could do it, she.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
Would have to figure out what makes her immune, because
you can't just cure someone. We're going to have to
figure that out, Yeah, and then risk them just getting
infected again. All it takes is another box of donuts
and ear out.
Speaker 4 (36:44):
I think my favorite thing about this show is after
last week, I would have never seen this week's episode coming.
Speaker 3 (36:52):
And I think the best thing is that next week
we could be in.
Speaker 4 (36:57):
A situation where so much has changed that all of
this conversation where like you know, either two weeks ahead
or two weeks behind of whatever's gonna happen, because he
does build these things in so well. So yeah, I mean, Vince,
you're doing it again, and I'm glad everyone is loving
the show.
Speaker 5 (37:15):
Yeah, yeah, I've.
Speaker 6 (37:16):
Watched ahead a little bit and the status quote does
continue to change, is all I'm gonna say.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
Who let me ask you this, But could we be
going to a place where like Paraguay guy is like
an alien, you know, like from a refugee a thing,
or like yeah, refugee from this titheline somewhere, or just
(37:42):
because it does appear that he was ready for it
and had hunkered down knowing it was going to happen.
I love that possibly before it happened. And then the
question is how.
Speaker 4 (37:57):
I think my favorite thing about that theory is something
that this show is playing in is scope the horror
of eight million, eight billion people. They can all be
used to hunt you down. You're the only one left.
So in that way, the notion of there being many
other planets with life fits that scope. So I would
(38:17):
also be interested if he is either a survivor of
a previous hive mind attempt, or if he was a
refugee from that planet, or if he's just another alien
who had come to Earth for whatever reason but could
sense that something off was going on. I think that
a lot of shows with this tone would not be
able to pull off like a different alien character.
Speaker 3 (38:39):
But I can absolutely.
Speaker 4 (38:41):
Imagine Vince making the world's weirdest body couple, just like
he did in Breaking Bad, or in Betters or Corseul
and it's like Carol and this cranky old alien who
is just trying to retire on Earth or whatever comedian
in twist.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
To your point, Rosie, it really feels as if it
could go anywhere. I don't It could get huge. We
could end up in space, it could end up half
the planet dead. It could get tiny, they could live underground.
I don't really know. I have no idea where it
could go. Well, the show continues to fascinate us and
(39:16):
we're gonna be following it all season. On the next
episode of x ra Vision, we're diving into Welcome to
Diry episode five.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
That's it for this episode. Thanks for listening.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
X ray Vision is hosted by Jason Concepcion and Rosie
Night and is a production of iHeart Podcast.
Speaker 4 (39:34):
Our executive producers are Joel Monique and Aaron Klefman.
Speaker 2 (39:38):
Our supervising producer is Abusafar.
Speaker 4 (39:40):
Our producers are Common Laurent Dean Jonathan and Bai Wag.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
A theme song is by Brian Vasquez, with alternate theme
songs by Aaron Kauffman.
Speaker 4 (39:48):
Special thanks to Saul Rubin, Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman, and Heidi.
Speaker 3 (39:52):
Our discord moderate, though
Hosts And Creators
Jason Concepcion
Rosie Knight
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.