December 5, 2025 • 50 mins
Continuing with our coverage of part one of “Stranger Things 5,” Rosie and Jason are recapping episodes three and four, “The Turnbow Trap” and “Sorcerer”, then they bring in producer Joelle Monique to break down and discuss.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Warning.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
Today's episode containing spoilers for Stranger Things season five episodes
three and four.
Speaker 3 (00:06):
You warned. Hello, my name is Jason.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Concepcion and I'm Rosie Night, and welcome back to Extra
Vision of the podcast.
Speaker 4 (00:28):
We'd id for your favorite shows, movie.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Comics, and pop culture. Our podcasts were arid three episodes
a week, Sorry, busts.
Speaker 5 (00:35):
In today's episode, we are recapping episodes three and four
of Stranger Things season five, the final season.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
Then we will be bringing in Joel to.
Speaker 5 (00:45):
Talk about all of our thoughts about this first chunk
of episodes.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
And before we jump in, guys, quick production note.
Speaker 5 (00:52):
This holiday season, we will be sharing a couple of
shorter stocking stuff for episodes with you. With so many
great shows, movies, books, and stuff coming out that we
want to explore, these episodes will help us cover a
little extra content we wouldn't be able to cover on
our normal episodes while covering all your favorite shows. We
had a first few episodes last week, and keep an
eye out for more through December.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
But first, Stranger Things. Okay, Stranger Things season five, the
final season, Episode three, The Turnbow Trap, Hopper and Eleven
are wandering around in the upside Down. They're arguing about stuff,
(01:38):
wondering what to do next. Eleven really wants to kill Vecna.
They come. They're at this wall and they're like, what
the fuck is this thing? They don't understand what it is.
The wall doesn't respond to Eleven's powers. And also it
feels really bad, like in the in the vicinity of
(01:58):
the wall.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Bad. Yes, the vibes are bad in the upside Down.
It's going unwell for them.
Speaker 5 (02:08):
Back in Hawkins, the world has narrowed to a single farmhouse.
This is the Turnbow home and this will be a
huge moment for the Stranger Things kids as this is
a family taking and scared neighbors. The military are now
taking kids or searching for kids. There's a strange vibe
going on, and it is the Turnbows who give our
(02:30):
children the first real lead. And it is Derek Turnbow,
who people at school call dipshit Derek. He's got glasses,
he's wide eyed, he's in the wrong place at the
wrong time, and he.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
Is on the next name on Veckner's list.
Speaker 5 (02:47):
And we know that because of the cold open where
Vecna smiles at him in the Mister ws It position
seems like he's been using the mister wats itprinkling time
scheme for many children, and after Hollyweeler vanished without a trace,
nobody wants to see what happens next, So it's time he.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Should have yeah, used a different, different alias for everybody.
Speaker 5 (03:09):
I feel it's making it too easy, like just as
many different creepy alias as you could have been from
kids books.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
So our heroes come up with a truly insane plan
which involves going to the Turnbough Farm, getting everybody like drugged,
and then waiting for a dema Gorgan to show up,
tagging it with like a tracker tag, and following it
(03:36):
insane into the upside down. Uh, the demo Gorgon arrives,
but the plan immediately goes fucking crazy because not everybody
you know, Derek's not asleep, and the demo Gorgon realizes
that our heroes are there. Therefore Vecna realizes our heroes
are there. It looks like it's really not going to
(03:58):
go well. Steve hits the demo Gorgan with a car
and then the demo Gorgan like goes to flee through
the portal and leave, and the question is, like, what
what do we do now yes, where we didn't get
the tracker and the demo Gorgan and now the demo
Gorgan's gone.
Speaker 5 (04:17):
And also the demo Gorgan seems to kind of like
maybe know the trap.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
There's a whole weird thing there.
Speaker 5 (04:24):
And we kind of get a feeling here why that
is as Will kind of freezes, not not shock, just
this kind of like crazy pulse that hits him from
the inside out, and it's a shockwave coming from deep
in the hive. His pencil snaps against his notebook and
suddenly sketching without looking. It's all very Godzilla X Kong,
(04:46):
New Empire or many other movies where somebody has sketched
the sixth sense.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
I ever seen that one.
Speaker 5 (04:52):
He's scribbling and the scribbles become shapes, and the shapes
become a window and through the window.
Speaker 6 (04:56):
Huh.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
None other than Definite New Stranger Things spin off lead.
Speaker 5 (05:00):
Holy Wei Law live screaming, reaching for something just to
frame the Demigogan has it too. It pivots vanishes into
the nearest creepy door aka weird Gate aka portal, leaving
the kids gossiping and it's wake.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
And then Steve gets a good idea based on like
a cookie that.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
Soft inside storytelling.
Speaker 5 (05:24):
I want the peanut line, peanut.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
But he's like, hey, you know what the you know what,
the portal's kind of a peanut popper. What a peanut opper?
Speaker 4 (05:34):
And they're like, what are you talking about?
Speaker 3 (05:36):
You talking about.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
I know it's a very very kind of weird way
to introduce the idea, Steve's idea of what if we
just ram the portal with the car, which they do.
So they ram the portal with the car and next
thing you know, they're in the upside down. Meanwhile, in
the upside down, Holly is wading around down.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
There and.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
She's she's like, uh, she hears there's a doorbell, and
there's a knock on the door, and then there's weird
things that are happening, and she's like walking out towards
the place that Vecna so Henry told her not to go,
and it's kind of like rock formation. And she gets
there and she thinks she sees like a monster maybe,
(06:26):
but and she's very very scared, but it's not a monster.
When she looks up.
Speaker 4 (06:31):
It is Max Great Cliffhagger. I was actually like.
Speaker 6 (06:41):
Okay, this is where I was like, I was truly like,
wait a minute, guys, maybe this should have been the
end of the fast chapter.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
I feel like this would have hooked people to come back.
Speaker 5 (06:50):
But it did make me watch the next episode, so
I get it, you know, like I want to hear
to know.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
I can't wait for a discussion to talk about both
the drug, the Turnbow family, and like kidnap the kids
plan insane the very next plan in the next episode,
which is based wildly on the Great Escape. Let's take
a break back to talk about episode four. Okay, Episode four.
Speaker 5 (07:33):
Sorcerer nice William Friedkin reference that yes, a little freakin
kind of freaking.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
This episode begins with the idea that you know, the
government is basically losing, steadily losing control of the town.
There's attacks, there's all these things are happening. So they're
rounding up all the kids between a certain age group
who are left in town, of which they are like
seventy something, and they round them up for protective custom
(08:00):
and our heroes realizing that the kids contacted by mister
What's at aka Henry Creole aka Vecna among them are
going to be important keys to accessing the upside down
so they can rescue Holly. They have to come up
with a plan in order to break these kids out
of Max containment. So based on the old timey movie
(08:27):
The Great Escape starrying Steve McQueen, they come up with
the truly fucking insane plan that involves using the conveniently
constructed tunnels that run under Hawkins to access the bunkers,
at which point they will using Derek Turnbow as an
(08:50):
inside agent, get the kids out.
Speaker 5 (08:55):
Yes, absolutely crazy plan and also again like, this was
definitely one of those times where I was like, I
love a story about kids going up against adults and
adults being useless, but those stories are usually like ninety minutes.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
Long in a slasher film.
Speaker 5 (09:11):
This is a show that consistently pushes the boundaries of
making you not ask where are the adults, de joyce
and hop and not know like a single cool adult
that could help them, Like why are the only people
they can team up with like ten year olds? So
because the only people they can team up with are
in high school. They get about thirty percent into the
plan before it and revels security.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
Titans truck shows up early.
Speaker 5 (09:32):
Someone with a clipboard is counting and does a better
job of the family counting home alones own children because
they notice a.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
Headcount that doesn't add up.
Speaker 5 (09:41):
The soldiers are not confused in any way, shape or form.
When everything blows up, they are absolutely ready and boom,
flashlights pin the kids like insects, and suddenly the clean
rescue dissolves into shouting, sprinting, and the kids scattering through
the parking lot like a jail break at midnight.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Yes, the escape plan goes totally crazy. Meanwhile, Uh, in
the upside Down, Dustin figured they come to the wall.
They're at the wall. Our tracking team is in the
upside Down. There at the wall, Dustin does some math
that I don't actually understand, and I don't understand like
how he did it, but he figures out that.
Speaker 4 (10:25):
The wall is.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
A complete circle around Hawkins and at the perfect center
of the circle is the Hawkins lap. Meanwhile, inside the
upside Down, Hopin or eleven are fighting their way through
the secret military facility that they believe houses. Vecna Ale's
powers are kind of like not working because of some
(10:49):
kind of like frequency or power inhibitor or thing that
they're hop In her calling her kryptonite. But that's fine
because Hopper like kills fifty people in the course of
the two episodes. He's just like gunning down. He guns
down so many people. In this episode, he's very comes out.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
About being put in the goo lags for sure.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
He's very very upset.
Speaker 4 (11:17):
Doctor K is there.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Doctor K captures him for a second, but they figure
that all out and Uh eleven is basically incapacitated, and
Hopper goes to the room where they believe Vecna is.
It's behind this big metal door and he opens it
up and he's like, Okay, Eleven, you're gonna get out
of here. Head that way. I'm going to go in
(11:40):
there and deal with this. And she touches like she's like,
what do you have inside your jacket? And you look
in there and he's got like a true suicide vest. Yes,
and he is ready to go in there and suicide
vest himself while thinking about his.
Speaker 4 (11:55):
Daughter who died.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
But it turns out that's completely unnecessary because it's not
Vecna in there. And I think one of the most
satisfying yes, like Easter Egg Loop closes of the series.
This is from like season two.
Speaker 4 (12:15):
Right where they talk season three.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
Yeah, season two or three. I mean, it's not Vecna
in there.
Speaker 4 (12:21):
It's eight eleven, sister number eight h chugging.
Speaker 5 (12:27):
Just guys, I told you it would come back, and
I have to say it has come back.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
I love this plotline.
Speaker 5 (12:33):
I was very excited to see this, and the lost
threads of the episode essentially pull us back into the
mind scape where we learn that how Max has been
surviving is it's like an exception. It's really interesting essentially,
as we know, Vecna's built a kind of physical mind
(12:54):
palace within the upside down that feels appealing to kids
like Holly, to kids like Derek. Is this kind of
beautiful house, but we know that the kids are ultimately
dying in their Max has not died because Max has
found a cave which Vecna is too scared to go into.
It's a memory he doesn't want to return to. And
(13:16):
Max is obviously going to be our.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
Big, badass heroes here.
Speaker 5 (13:20):
And we see that while Holly is terrified, Max is
like fucking ready and something is waking up above them.
We don't know what it is, but something is changing.
There is this strange kind of almost a shiver in
the world. And then we go back up to the
top and we see what has changed.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
So at the macv The walls between like Hawkins and
the upside Down are super super thin now, so demogorgans
are like pouring out of mortals. They're taking on the soldiers.
It's a Seesaw battle in it. You feel like the
soldiers actually might fight them off, especially when they come
out with the flamethrowers and they start burning the demo organs.
(14:00):
And Will, who is his connection to these upside down
creatures now, is so strong that he feels like he's
burning when the demo Gorgans are burning. And then just
when it seems like, oh, maybe the human's got this,
Vecna shows up that it looks very muscular and viny.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
Now I know everyone was cracking me up. He looked
like his waist is snatched, like he was like a
drag queen, like compared to the Fast Season. Now he's
like fabulous.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
He shows up and he kills a guy by like
shoving his little roots through the back of his head.
Speaker 4 (14:36):
It's very gross.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
And then he picks up Will and he's like Will
and it basically says like I want to thank you
because when I broke you, I realized like how easy
it is to break kids. They're so weak, and that's
the key. I hope this is the key to my
whole plan now to target the kids because the kids
are so fucking weak. And meanwhile, the Demo Gordons are
(14:59):
like leading off the ca kids, and so Vecna's like, okay,
well that's why I'm doing this and it's all thanks
to you, and then he goes off, follows the Demo
Gorgans away, and the Demo Gorgans are in the process
of like just being about to kill all of Will's friends, Lucas, everybody,
(15:19):
like the people in the tunnels, like it's just about
to be a fucking slaughter. And then Will, like Neo
and the Matrix realizes upon reflecting on the words that
Robin shared with him when they had their little talk
about the fact that they're both gay.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
And also he's like basically an antenna and that was.
Speaker 5 (15:43):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
He realizes that actually, like Mike was right, there is
a connection with the Demo Gorgans and I can actually
control them. And he freezes the Demo Gorgans in mid air,
snapping their necks and is standing there with his eyes
rolled back, looking super super powerful and terrifying, and that
is the end of the Mirama finale of Stranger Things,
(16:08):
the final season. Let's take a quick break and bring.
Speaker 4 (16:10):
In Joel, super producer Joel.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
And talk about these episodes. All right, Welcome to the episode, Joel.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
Joelle, it makes sense. It makes sense.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
So many things to talk about in these episodes, so
many like things that I loved that I didn't we
didn't even talk about in the recap, such as Eleven's
idea that the soldier whose name I forget must know
what the wall is because he peede on it.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
Yeah, she logic.
Speaker 5 (17:02):
She still has not been taught how to exist in
like the real human world outside of the institution.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
And I blame that solely on Hopa. I got problems
with this kid logic.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
But Joelle, your thoughts on these two episodes and then
the season thus far.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
Yeah, the first two episodes were a slog for me,
real difficult to get through. I was literally got three
and four because I was like, here we are, We're
in it. Stuff is happening. I'm liking the new Kids
quite a lot. I'm not as on the Derek fanboard
as some other people are. I still, you know, he's okay,
(17:41):
Derek's fine. I like Holly, though, I like Little Sister.
I love her outfit to explore the woods one hundred percent.
You aced it girls so cute, love your color theory,
and I like her, like her connection to D and
D and like being a new like sort of lover
of it and kind of learning about it. I think
that's really cute. I thought the action and these sequences
(18:01):
were great. I was a little nervous about them splitting
everybody up at first, uh, because I think it works
better when our main group of kids is together. But
it's been working out, okay, Like we're learning a little
bit about eleven. All right, I'll take it. My boys
are not happy together right now, Steve and Dustin, and
I need them to figure it out. Ace. Actually, I'm
(18:24):
not okay with them not being good together.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Well, sad, Can I just say one thing very quickly, Dustin?
Why is Dustin so fucking mean this season?
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Right? Okay?
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Like, Like I get that he's obviously he's having a
hard time in the wake of Eddie's death, and I
get that, but it constantly manifesting is like being an
asshole to his friends.
Speaker 4 (18:48):
It's like, Dustin.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Is it because he's sure he everybody else drew up
and not really tall and Dustin.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
Okay, I am sure, I'm angry, so fair.
Speaker 5 (19:08):
No, I think this is a good read, guys, because
I do think it's one of the weak aspects of
the two chunks.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
That we've gotten so far.
Speaker 5 (19:16):
I do think they're leaning a little bit more into
things people don't want. People want Dustin and Steve to
be friends. Four episodes is enough time for them to
wrap it up and come back together. I don't want
to see Steve have to you know, kill himself to
save Dustin, to prove that he's, you know, a good friend.
I also think that they're trying to do something around
the nuance of when you are bullied, you can.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
Become a bully, or you can become cruel, or you can.
Speaker 5 (19:40):
Become in But the show does not have enough time
for those kind of plot points.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
Guys.
Speaker 5 (19:44):
There is not enough nuance and juice there. Get to
the fights, get to Dustin doing more cool maths and
being a genius. That was always a great plot point
him in it. Steve was so funny together as himbos Joelle.
Other big takeaways from the first four episodes.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Uh Robin a top tier character. I'm really loving her.
I will say. I was concerned about the queerness of
it all. You know, we've had little hints in the
past and we were there. It felt like they were like,
we're not gonna really go there, but we'll just we'll
just queer bait you a little bit. This season they said,
no queer baiting.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
We're all full full till it's it's.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
Gay as hell, and the gabies are uniting to figure
out their shit and like lesbian support. I want to
troll mom, I said it, but it's kind of getting me. Guys,
I'm kind of really feeling the vibes of being like,
it's not about your because because accurately your first crush,
no matter your orientation, it feels like, oh, it's a
lot about them, has nothing to do with them. It's
all about you discovering a lot about yourself. And I
(20:41):
was like, oh, that's not really a coming out story.
We get a lot of we get a lot of
like my parents don't understand me. We get a lot
of like society doesn't enjoy me, but we don't get
a lot of Hey, like that is still your friend,
but it's not really about him. This is about you,
like center on yourself, your power culture. Then I was like, oh, man,
I like Will that much, but this story is bringing
me around on him. That's kind of got me excited
(21:03):
for where they're going to go from here.
Speaker 5 (21:06):
I really like the elder queer conversation because I don't
think we get that a lot. I don't think we
get a lot of, like, especially in genre stories, space
for queer kids to be like kind to each other
or help each other.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
So I love that also, was it just me?
Speaker 5 (21:22):
I feel like in episode four they were absolutely like
making it seem like there was a thing between Mike
and Will, like when that conversations kind of crush on Mike, yes,
for a long time. But what I'm saying is in
that moment when Mike kind of starts to have ideas
about Will's powers, there's this awkward kind of interplay and
(21:44):
Will even like Mike like touches his shoulder and Will
kind of moves away.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
And I just I think they might actually go there.
I don't think I think.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
You might get at most a confession of I have
liked you, and he'll be like, that's so great, bro,
We're still friends.
Speaker 4 (21:59):
They kind at the end.
Speaker 5 (22:01):
Of like they kind of did that end of season three,
Season four, like have this. I think that at least
I think that's gonna be an attempted kiss. That's why
I think, because I saw I saw a little maybe
at the end of the world, you know, between them,
a little flirtation.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
I'm here, Yes, I'm just finally. I'm glad Max is back.
Speaker 4 (22:26):
We needed our girl.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
Uh really elevates this cast quite a lot, and she
brings interesting angle into the story. I think, like Holly
being in this sort of like VECNA bubble, Uh and
then Max were bursting that bubble. I think it makes
the world like really interesting. And it also because the
end episode four with like, hey, the military VECNA not
(22:50):
all aligned. We thought that they had VECNA. They don't.
I love fighting two big bads on two separate fronts.
Going into this last we have two more batches of episodes.
I think it gives us a lot to go on.
I don't know what's gonna happen next. I have like
almost zero predictions. It's so open.
Speaker 5 (23:08):
This is actually something that me and Jason talked about
that I think is a big compliment. I feel like
generally this show is relatively predictable because it's taking from
a lot of stuff that we love, and that's part
of the nostalgia. It's part of what makes it work
is the familiarity. But they are blowing that up this season,
and I do respect that because I too.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
Do not know where this is going to go. I
do have some questions for.
Speaker 5 (23:28):
You, guys, Joelle, where are we going with what Vecna wants?
Like he's gonna kill these kids, He's gonna connect to
the upside down, But what does he want?
Speaker 3 (23:38):
That's the big question here. Okay, what do you think
he wants?
Speaker 1 (23:41):
Vegna has gone full mustache twirly. I'm not sure how
I felt. I would actually from the writers talk to
me about how we feel about Vecna's big speech, and
they were like, kids are so vulnerable and so easy
to corrupt, and you were the easiest. And I was like, Okay,
I get it.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
He's bad.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
Did it feel like overkilled you? Or did it it
did that work?
Speaker 2 (24:03):
I mean it felt like it was a little overkill
in the sense that it's so clearly setting up the
show to CounterPunch.
Speaker 4 (24:15):
The show is.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
In the show's entire thesis is that kids are strong,
and that found family is incredible and vibrant, and kids
are resilient and powerful, and so it felt a little
overkill in the sense that it's so clearly just a
set up the show to like.
Speaker 4 (24:34):
Dunk on him. But I also kind of liked it
because it's not we're not.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
It was the first real explanation from Vecna about like
what he's doing, and I think we need more. I'm
hoping that in this back half the back five, we
will get more Vecna monologues.
Speaker 5 (24:53):
Yeah, let me ask you about that. Actually, I think
you make a great point, Joelle. The thing I'm interested
in is that the truth of like Vector's experience or
is that really like Vector saying that shit to fuck
with will, because that's obviously what the people at.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
Hawkins's Lab thought about kids, you know that.
Speaker 5 (25:14):
I think they're trying to do some kind of trauma
cycle here because he was like tortured and put into
that space by the government, and I wonder if they're
doing some kind of thing where he doesn't really feel
that way, or there is gonna be more of a
complexity to it, because I think his interest in the
kids and where he puts them, and the way that
someone like Holly gets put in that beautiful house that
(25:37):
isn't scary and he wants to lure her in, but
then someone like Will just gets used as like a
scary human battery. I just think there's some really interesting
complexities and layers there that we.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
Could get into.
Speaker 5 (25:48):
But the monologue personally didn't work for me just because
of this. Really, Like Jason said, I do think that
the point is so that Will can then be like
I am strong, and that goes back to that predictability.
It doesn't necessarily feel like I love a monologue where
a villain just gives away his whole plan because he
thinks it's such a good plan. You know, Vecna didn't
(26:09):
have that confidence here.
Speaker 3 (26:13):
Vekna's plan.
Speaker 5 (26:14):
We still don't know what it is, and I still
don't really believe in any way, shape or form that
the government is collecting the kids or saving the kids
for any kind of good reason. I think they're trying
to once again work out how to militarize these kids
against Vekna. So I'm very interested to see if the
finale is kind of like a anti military, anti VECNA
(26:35):
kind of free for all, and then it's about Hawkins
taking back Hawkins as like a community. I don't know
I'm very interested because the final episode is gonna show.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
The finale will show on.
Speaker 5 (26:48):
The big screen on December thirty first and January first,
and they're showing it at like five hundred cinemas. Some
are doing free screening, some are not. That's got to
be a crazy episode because I was watching the episode
last night, episode four, and even though it is a
great lots of great action sequences, I watch it on
my projector and it definitely looks bad if you watch
(27:09):
it on your TV.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
The projector's fun because.
Speaker 5 (27:12):
Big, and it feels embracing and you're in the action,
but it feels like you're also seeing too much that
they don't want you to see, of the kind of
stuff that isn't maybe as clean or is it, you know,
some of the little bits and bobs that they want
to hide in the action. I want to know what
that finale looks like and whether it's gonna hurt or
(27:34):
help it to be in the movie theaters. I will
be there on January first because they're doing a free
screening at the Egyptian. I'm taking a couple of friends
of mine who loved the show, but like, I don't
know if it's gonna hurt it or help it, Like,
do you guys have any feeling on that.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
I think it will matter because it's the finale and
so there's nowhere to go.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
I think it's just.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
An opportunity to sort of if you've been a lifelong fan,
to sort of like lifelong, if you've embraced the show
songs it's been on, you can go with your friends
and sort of watch and conclusion. I think for Vecna's
like big, it'll be interesting because like what we learn
in episode four is like, Okay, he's basically created a
circle in the upside down that's impenetrable by either military
(28:16):
or you know, Eleven's powers. So you can't stab it,
you can't mind wipe it away. It's solid. We know
that in some way by the canyon, something has happened
there that he's not approaching. We know you can kind
of live in his memory. Yeah, and we know you
kind of live inside of his memories. I'm wondering if
(28:37):
you sort of making me upside down a physical memory
palace that he can sort of because he can also
change his body, like when he appears to Holly, he's
fully formed as Henry. I think he's trying to create
an all world. At least that would be the most
interesting thing to me, because I'm not really interested in
like destruction. For destruction's sake, it dries up. But you
(28:59):
all screwed up my world and stole my childhood. So
I'm bringing a bunch of children into a protected space
where I can relive not just my childhood, but it's
in a pristine sort of way, and in a way
that I wish it had been. That to me is
a fascin interesting Yeah, exactly exactly, And I think too,
I'm also interested in Max makes a big deal about
(29:21):
the music and physical touch being the thing that was
going to be able to bring her back to the
real world, And the first thing we see Henry give
Holly is a tape that she immediately starts playing and
connects to you. And I'm wondering if music can be
both a savior and an anchor to this world in
a way that maybe will allow her not to escape.
I'm skeptical of Holly's spy abilities. She's doing good so far,
(29:44):
but can you send her back into that house with.
Speaker 4 (29:46):
All of this knowledge?
Speaker 1 (29:48):
Can we talk about all of the different game plans
that were set up, and we had a lot of.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
We got to talk about because these are the most
cock they're cock may me cock ma fuck plants. I
mean the first one in episode three where it's like, Okay,
we're gonna go to the Turnbo farm, We're gonna drug everyone,
and then we're gonna kidnap the kids. And Joyce is
(30:18):
like straight up like, yes, this is a kidnapping, but
hear me.
Speaker 7 (30:22):
Out Erica into Dexter, They're like, take us syringe if
they don't eat the pie.
Speaker 3 (30:33):
Okay.
Speaker 5 (30:33):
I do love Erica, though Erica in the next America
PepsiCo dude, Erica is like when she's so ready.
Speaker 6 (30:42):
She said, Tina, I told you to eat that pie
ohever and then she gives out the injection, like insane plan,
especially because I feel like the fact that Hawkins is
under military occupation means that you could go to the
Tombous and go, hey, guys, we need Derek.
Speaker 3 (31:03):
There's some fucked up shit going on. We know more
about it. His blah blah blah.
Speaker 5 (31:07):
I feel like you could have convinced them because so
much we had stuff's going on. Drugging them and stealing
that kid's bad idea, just like extremely bad idea, never
gonna walk out well.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
And then there's episode four with this like kakamamie great
escape plan that involves accessing the tunnels. Thank god the
tunnels run in the way they do, figuring out, sending
Derek in as like an inside agent to round up
(31:37):
all the mister What's it contacts into one place, break
in through the bottom of the bathroom, and then quietly
whisk away all the what's it kids out of the tunnels. Crazily,
this does not work because of a snitch. We can
talk about that if.
Speaker 3 (31:58):
You want this plan as well.
Speaker 4 (32:03):
I'm like, what are we doing?
Speaker 3 (32:04):
Guess okay, lazy, I got as. There has been a
lot of bad plans because like also remember.
Speaker 5 (32:11):
That, like the third season there was kind of this
weird like the Russians are gonna take over America via
four like via the upside Down. Is like, there's been
many plans throughout this and they never go particularly well.
Speaker 3 (32:29):
Honestly, Stranger Things is a history of terrible plans. I
will say.
Speaker 5 (32:33):
Though that super producer Ian did have a good idea
of what Veckner's plan could be, which is what if
he is merging dimension x slash the upside Down with
the real world because in season four he needed to
kill four people to open the four portals. So if
he keeps killing people, will he just open up essentially
(32:54):
a point where Hawkins and the Upside Down becomes the
same and becomes one impossible?
Speaker 3 (33:00):
I think is really interesting, Yeah, and.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
Would be interesting overall to like, again, what is his
plan to do with Hawkins? Do you want to be
mare of it?
Speaker 5 (33:08):
Right?
Speaker 1 (33:08):
Are we are we nineteen sixty six? Like Batman stop Astralia,
like I'll be mayor of the city now? Or is
he is he trying to to sing? That's very joking, right,
I'm really curious to see how that works out. I
think for plans on this show, particularly this one, like
to give the smallest bit of grace. These are people
from Indiana with two hours to figure out how we're
(33:31):
going to try to save some kids' lives, and we're
not going to convince the wealthy Republicans or the military
to adjust what they're doing to go along with us.
So is it bananas? Yes? Here's what's really upsetting to
me is nobody had like there's not a plan B.
And that is always concerning to me like, so we're
just gonna tunnel in right underneath the military and be fine,
do we have any.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
Well, they're not going to tunnel in. The tunnels exist
very conveniently. The tunnels are already there. Okay, wait, there
is going to go into the tunnels.
Speaker 5 (34:03):
Sis brings up a big This brings up a big
question for me.
Speaker 3 (34:08):
How pissed off are.
Speaker 5 (34:10):
You if you are the Duffer brothers and every single
thing you are doing in this show is being done
in it Welcome to darry On hbox tunnels under.
Speaker 3 (34:20):
The city, a spooky wall. There is a circle completely around.
What is the motivation of Vecna? What is the motivation
of Penny Wise?
Speaker 5 (34:31):
I feel like this is a badly timed release for
Netflix because they could have never seen how it Welcomed
to Terry would kind of be part of that feedback loop,
right so sid both of.
Speaker 4 (34:43):
Them, you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (34:44):
I think it's I think it's interesting because well, listen,
Stranger Things is the much bigger property. So I think
you might be maybe you would argue that it's bad
timing for Welcome to Jerry. That said, if we want
to tell you, yes, if we find out that Vecna's
plan is to make everyone scared so the kids taste delicious.
Speaker 3 (35:04):
That I'm fucking telling no. They already said that in
one of these episodes. They said something.
Speaker 5 (35:13):
Where they were like, Vekna prefers it when people are scared,
but he will also take them if they're not scared,
like he and they mentioned something about the flight and
I was like, no, this is too much, guys.
Speaker 3 (35:24):
I was like, you guys went too hard in on
the Derry law this season. And obviously we.
Speaker 5 (35:29):
Are blessed because Welcome to Derry has incredible writing, incredible casting.
I just think it's really interesting for the two to
be coming out at the same time, and how many
similarities there are with the tunnels and all this kind
of stuff. Also, I just got to say, we talked
about it, Welcome for Derry. We've critiqued this specific thing.
We've had deep conversations about it because we care about it.
But you know what, it Welcomed for Derry has indigenous
(35:50):
characters who are a major part of the plotline. They
introduced an indigenous character last year in the last season
of Stranger Things.
Speaker 3 (35:57):
In season four, not last year. It's been a long time.
Speaker 5 (36:00):
I'm called angus I believe, and he was a fantastic
character who was a pizza delivery boy, really popular, and
they just never invited him back to the final season.
So that's another thing where where Darry is working for me.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
Let's quickly talk about doctor k What does she want
talk about?
Speaker 3 (36:21):
Mustache twirlings?
Speaker 2 (36:23):
I mean, this is this is like a just an
evil kobookie dance par xcellence. She does, you know, in
front of the bullet riddled bodies of like a dozen
military people and creepy crawley tentacles and stuff, She's just like,
now I'm gonna monologue my entire evil plan.
Speaker 4 (36:46):
What is clearly she was involved.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
I think in the original experiment she must have, because
why else would Eleven feel so.
Speaker 4 (36:58):
Strongly about her? What is her deal?
Speaker 2 (37:01):
Like? What is what is she trying to do down there?
And what are they trying to do with eight?
Speaker 5 (37:07):
I think, well, I think they're rounding up all the kids,
and I think they're rounding up anyone who can lead
them to eleven.
Speaker 3 (37:13):
And she essentially eleven.
Speaker 5 (37:16):
That was the closest Eleven's ever been to escaping was
when she basically found her own family. So I think
that yes, she's gonna be representing the military industrial complex
their plans. But I do think if we're looking at
Vekner's history, and as many of you have pointed out,
including super producer Aaron, who will probably come on and
(37:36):
talk about this as we cover the rest of the
season when it drops, but this notion of how this
connects to the Broadway play that recently came out, which
has been one a massive success, but two is heavily
about Vekna and Henry and Henry's childhood, and I think
that she is going to be a connection to that.
When Eleven says to her, I've seen what you did.
(37:58):
I've seen what you've done, I think that Eleven knows
that she was involved with it. And I also think
that the caves are.
Speaker 3 (38:05):
Going to be.
Speaker 5 (38:06):
My feeling is wherever doctor k did the first experiments
on Vecna or something. That's kind of my feeling is
like before it was official, it was kind of this
nightmarish space. Though I will tell you the reason the
cave is really there is because it's to give Max
a Lost Boys inspired hangout that's directly.
Speaker 3 (38:24):
The Caves from Lost Boys.
Speaker 5 (38:25):
But I think that the notion of why Vecna won't
go there is because they there is this connection to
doctor k and she needs Eleven. But why that's the
biggest thing. She keeps saying she needs the girl, she
needs Eleven. But what is it about eleven that is
so much more powerful? What is it about eleven? Does
(38:45):
she think Eleven can be that connection between the two
worlds because Eleven has connections on the upside down and
in the real world. I don't know, but I think
it's clear she's going to be our true villain.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
Yeah, interesting, I think I did you agree? I think
she's the worst doctor Brent. I think a more dedicated
has been here from the very first, Like her knowledge
on the creature was so much more intense than we've
seen for a while.
Speaker 3 (39:14):
She knows.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
That part too.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
We're not going to be this right where she's Vecna's mom.
Speaker 3 (39:23):
So I was thinking about that.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
So we have seen Henry's mom before, played by a
different actress, but there is some years between when we
saw her and now. She did not appear to be
military in the flashback we saw, so I'm hoping that's
not the case. Also, it's really annoying when like it's
the evil mom we've seen it, and if you're not
going to play into it early enough, like you're seeing
(39:47):
it as it was at the end, really weak saw.
So I'm really hoping it's not that. What I'm hoping
is like we we haven't seen a lot of women
in this space as would have been the time Sara,
not a lot of women in the military, especially not
in leadership positions as over her to Gardner as much
respect and fear at this time, at her advanced age,
(40:08):
means she's been kicking ass for a long long time.
I wonder if she didn't give up. I don't want
Vecna to be her kid. I wouldn't mind if she
had given up a kid to the program at some
point to be like, yeah, tests on my kid, Like
this is how dedicated I am to the cause.
Speaker 3 (40:25):
That's interesting, Actually, I like that question.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
Why doesn't Vecna kill Will.
Speaker 4 (40:32):
For something?
Speaker 1 (40:33):
You were the first?
Speaker 2 (40:36):
Yeah, he needs him for something.
Speaker 3 (40:38):
Here's my baby.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
What if Vecna he wants his childhood back and he
wants friends. He's getting a bunch of kids together that
he can be friends with in his perfect little memory palace.
But somebody's got to be Vecna. So he's gonna make
Will be Vecna. Yes, and Will is going to be
the evil side of him, and he can separate all
(41:04):
the good pre Vecna Henry parts of him to be
the parts that live in the memory.
Speaker 5 (41:12):
I think one thousand percent think that that is actually
very correct Jason, because my understanding of the conflicts within
the exponential law of the books and the plays and
everything is that there was an internal battle inside Henry
between good and evil, and he wanted to not go
to dimension X and not become a monster. And I
(41:34):
think the idea that he is essentially going to like
Majus himself, like Adam Warlock did, where there is a
separation between the evil and the good and he puts
all of the evil into Will, I think is very interesting.
I also think that maybe that's why he needed Will
in the first place. He says, we're going to do
such beautiful things together. Maybe he needs someone who can
(41:54):
become the next Vekna. And because he knew Will had
these kind of similar powers to him, and he could
sense that he was able to kind of manifest them
or encourage them within him through this horrific fight. I'm
very interested how this can get wrapped up in a
satisfying way.
Speaker 6 (42:14):
I just don't know if it can.
Speaker 5 (42:16):
Okay, wait wait wait wait, In that case, let's have
some fun quickly, worst ending. What would the worst ending
of this, worst twist, worst ending, worst tie in, what
would be the worst version, and then we can it
cannot be worst in that.
Speaker 2 (42:32):
For me, any kind of version of you know, the
Wizard of Oz.
Speaker 4 (42:36):
It was all a dream.
Speaker 2 (42:37):
Oh god, oh god, yeah, absolutely horrendous, and.
Speaker 3 (42:46):
I hate that. I don't love that.
Speaker 1 (42:50):
Usually I am pro kill the kids here. I think
if you start murdering off the kids, that it becomes like,
especially after we get that nice like speech from Mike
to his sister about like, you know, once once everything's done,
like the party goes somewhere else and they rest together.
But I think that's really got to be end goal.
(43:10):
You framed it as kids are powerful and we're frequently
getting happy endings. I think if they were to like
renig on that and suddenly be like, actually it's a
dark reality, it's gritty, I'd be like, don't know the
whole time. Please just give these kids a happy ending.
I can't stand it. What about you, Rosie, what's the
worst possible ending?
Speaker 5 (43:27):
I think for me though, and sadly, I do think
this could end up being the case. I think for me,
the worst version of this is where Will suddenly becomes
the ultimate kind of final Girl character, rather than it
being a collaboration, because I think we've followed Elle and
her powers for so long, and I think that I
would I'm excited to see her and him fight together.
(43:50):
Please put her in a different outfit. I know that's
the Josh Broling Goonies outfit.
Speaker 3 (43:54):
I have watched it.
Speaker 5 (43:55):
I've seen the Goonies. I've seen the Goonies. He is
sexy in that movie. I had a crush on him.
Speaker 3 (44:00):
I love the outfit.
Speaker 5 (44:01):
It is not looking great on Willie Bobby Brown. Please
let her out of the outfit, but then let her
and Will like fight alongside each other, use their powers together. Like,
I want to see that inherent kind of connection because
of the upside down that they never really got to have.
Speaker 3 (44:16):
I think that would be really cool. Yeah, if it
ends up being.
Speaker 5 (44:19):
That, like Will saves the day kind of how it
was though, the emotional beat of that worked where everyone
got pulled back together. You thought it was going to
be the most dark, dire moment, Everyone's gonna die. Will
gets his powers. That's a huge triumphant moment. But now
we've had that, how does he use them?
Speaker 3 (44:35):
We can't.
Speaker 5 (44:35):
That's not a surprise for the finale, now, you know.
I guess that some of them would get powers. I
hope we see more powers. Maybe Max post upside down powers.
Speaker 1 (44:45):
Yes, I would love to see Max with some powers.
I think the whole house scene where they like where
they're setting it up for the demo Gore going to
come through. They've lured and they've cut out the big
piece of the floor. What is that family going to
think when they get back to their house and not
only the drugged or there's a hole in our floor.
Everything is smashed like it's gonna be a real root awakening.
It seems like they have the money and it's the eighties.
Speaker 5 (45:06):
I think about this, think about other and this is
good because this is a topic I did want to
talk about because I gotta say as an outsider, and
I'm sure it's the same as an American watching this stuff,
but like, how many shows right in America do they
love to put a town in quarantine?
Speaker 3 (45:23):
They be putting a town in quarantine.
Speaker 5 (45:25):
In every show Riverdale, there's a town in quarantine.
Speaker 3 (45:28):
The Blob a town in Qualifine.
Speaker 5 (45:30):
Going back to the old school, you know, last of
us massive plot points about.
Speaker 4 (45:34):
Town quarantine, Buffy in quarantine.
Speaker 5 (45:36):
Sunnydale gets quarantined at one point, Like there is this
cultural idea of the American Yeah, the Dome, the Americans
coming in in the Simpsons movie, and it is this
very interesting cultural trope and I'm so intrigued to know
if it comes from a real history of that or
if it's this kind of Cold War esque fear. But
(45:57):
I do think that the whole fact that they are
quarantined in this space and they cannot leave makes me
wonder like if Joyce kidnapped my kid, I feel like
the military would.
Speaker 3 (46:10):
Just shoot her in the head when they found out,
you know what I mean.
Speaker 5 (46:13):
Like I can't quite get the duality of its military occupation,
but you can just do whatever you want.
Speaker 4 (46:21):
With that kind of wide eyed look.
Speaker 3 (46:24):
You know, well you.
Speaker 4 (46:27):
I love my son.
Speaker 2 (46:29):
I think it's a common he's he's he's actually the
the the dangerously cute dustin nothing nothing.
Speaker 4 (46:38):
The other nicknames.
Speaker 3 (46:41):
I think.
Speaker 1 (46:45):
Police and uh are are very intense self reliance because
well you noticed in these these bubble stories, not like
the military is suddenly like at you door, demanding a
bunch of things. It's like, you just can't leave. The
military's in the population. They're like, we just need to
segregate you and keep you within this space. But whatever
(47:07):
you do in here, that's your guys' business, just don't
bring it outside of here. So I really think that's
sort of been the running thing. I was just gonna say,
you know, when we're in that sort of like home
alone house set up in everything. To me, that was
a real showcase of like how the kids can work together.
They were pretty successful as if we're looking at all
of their plans on a scale like was the final
(47:29):
shotgun a little slow to get off, Yes, but for
the most part, mission accomplished, goal achieved, And that to
me says that for their next plan, especially now that
they have us super powered up, will hopefully Eleven's on
her way back to the team.
Speaker 5 (47:44):
Fine.
Speaker 1 (47:44):
I think we're gonna have some good organized movements from
the group going forward, and I'm looking forward to seeing that.
Speaker 2 (47:50):
I agree. I have one thing that I'm pretty sure
is gonna happen, since they absolutely teased it in these
two episodes, Hopper getting.
Speaker 4 (48:05):
Hop is he can't wait to die. He let you
know in this episode that he's he wants to go.
He's thinking already to let go.
Speaker 1 (48:15):
Four times he says goodbye to Joys before he goes
into the upside down. He gets a goodbye on the radio,
and then he says goodbye and the door. He's like,
I'm so proud of you. Gotta go.
Speaker 2 (48:25):
He's a look on his face when he has to
come back open the door and be like, I didn't
get to blow myself up, so disappointed. You just know
when it comes time to close the final portal or
whatever the thing is, it's gonna be hop running in
(48:46):
there like Barry Sanders with his suicide vest On, and
he cannot wait to do it.
Speaker 4 (48:53):
He can't wait.
Speaker 5 (48:54):
My dream scenario is the l gets to kill half
because I do think he's a terrible dad.
Speaker 3 (48:59):
Now, is that gonna happen just because she's gonna kill him?
Speaker 5 (49:01):
No, bond, No, But what if he gets like possessed
by the under well, then the dem Gorgans or something
they have to and they have to blow him up
and she has to.
Speaker 1 (49:11):
Blow how much power to let that happen? Got the
power to undo? So it seems like Okay, that's a
good point.
Speaker 3 (49:19):
I like that.
Speaker 2 (49:21):
I like well, five more episodes left. We're excited to
talk about it. On the next episodes of X ray Vision,
we're diving into the biggest.
Speaker 4 (49:27):
News of the week, more plural us.
Speaker 2 (49:30):
Also it welcome to Dairy and all out coverage coming soon.
That's it for this episode that we'll sing Bye bye.
X ray Vision is hosted by Jason Concepcion and Rosie
Knight and is a production of iHeart Podcast.
Speaker 5 (49:43):
Our executive producers are Joel Monique and Aaron Kaufman.
Speaker 2 (49:47):
Our supervising producer is Abusafar.
Speaker 5 (49:50):
Our producers are Common, Laurent Dean, Jhonathson, and Bay Wax.
Speaker 2 (49:54):
A theme song is by Brian Vasquez, with alternate theme
songs by Aaron Kauffman.
Speaker 5 (49:58):
Special thanks to Soul Rubin, Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman and
Heidie are Discord moderator m
Warning.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
Today's episode containing spoilers for Stranger Things season five episodes
three and four.
Speaker 3 (00:06):
You warned. Hello, my name is Jason.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Concepcion and I'm Rosie Night, and welcome back to Extra
Vision of the podcast.
Speaker 4 (00:28):
We'd id for your favorite shows, movie.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Comics, and pop culture. Our podcasts were arid three episodes
a week, Sorry, busts.
Speaker 5 (00:35):
In today's episode, we are recapping episodes three and four
of Stranger Things season five, the final season.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
Then we will be bringing in Joel to.
Speaker 5 (00:45):
Talk about all of our thoughts about this first chunk
of episodes.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
And before we jump in, guys, quick production note.
Speaker 5 (00:52):
This holiday season, we will be sharing a couple of
shorter stocking stuff for episodes with you. With so many
great shows, movies, books, and stuff coming out that we
want to explore, these episodes will help us cover a
little extra content we wouldn't be able to cover on
our normal episodes while covering all your favorite shows. We
had a first few episodes last week, and keep an
eye out for more through December.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
But first, Stranger Things. Okay, Stranger Things season five, the
final season, Episode three, The Turnbow Trap, Hopper and Eleven
are wandering around in the upside Down. They're arguing about stuff,
(01:38):
wondering what to do next. Eleven really wants to kill Vecna.
They come. They're at this wall and they're like, what
the fuck is this thing? They don't understand what it is.
The wall doesn't respond to Eleven's powers. And also it
feels really bad, like in the in the vicinity of
(01:58):
the wall.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Bad. Yes, the vibes are bad in the upside Down.
It's going unwell for them.
Speaker 5 (02:08):
Back in Hawkins, the world has narrowed to a single farmhouse.
This is the Turnbow home and this will be a
huge moment for the Stranger Things kids as this is
a family taking and scared neighbors. The military are now
taking kids or searching for kids. There's a strange vibe
going on, and it is the Turnbows who give our
(02:30):
children the first real lead. And it is Derek Turnbow,
who people at school call dipshit Derek. He's got glasses,
he's wide eyed, he's in the wrong place at the
wrong time, and he.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
Is on the next name on Veckner's list.
Speaker 5 (02:47):
And we know that because of the cold open where
Vecna smiles at him in the Mister ws It position
seems like he's been using the mister wats itprinkling time
scheme for many children, and after Hollyweeler vanished without a trace,
nobody wants to see what happens next, So it's time he.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Should have yeah, used a different, different alias for everybody.
Speaker 5 (03:09):
I feel it's making it too easy, like just as
many different creepy alias as you could have been from
kids books.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
So our heroes come up with a truly insane plan
which involves going to the Turnbough Farm, getting everybody like drugged,
and then waiting for a dema Gorgan to show up,
tagging it with like a tracker tag, and following it
(03:36):
insane into the upside down. Uh, the demo Gorgon arrives,
but the plan immediately goes fucking crazy because not everybody
you know, Derek's not asleep, and the demo Gorgon realizes
that our heroes are there. Therefore Vecna realizes our heroes
are there. It looks like it's really not going to
(03:58):
go well. Steve hits the demo Gorgan with a car
and then the demo Gorgan like goes to flee through
the portal and leave, and the question is, like, what
what do we do now yes, where we didn't get
the tracker and the demo Gorgan and now the demo
Gorgan's gone.
Speaker 5 (04:17):
And also the demo Gorgan seems to kind of like
maybe know the trap.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
There's a whole weird thing there.
Speaker 5 (04:24):
And we kind of get a feeling here why that
is as Will kind of freezes, not not shock, just
this kind of like crazy pulse that hits him from
the inside out, and it's a shockwave coming from deep
in the hive. His pencil snaps against his notebook and
suddenly sketching without looking. It's all very Godzilla X Kong,
(04:46):
New Empire or many other movies where somebody has sketched
the sixth sense.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
I ever seen that one.
Speaker 5 (04:52):
He's scribbling and the scribbles become shapes, and the shapes
become a window and through the window.
Speaker 6 (04:56):
Huh.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
None other than Definite New Stranger Things spin off lead.
Speaker 5 (05:00):
Holy Wei Law live screaming, reaching for something just to
frame the Demigogan has it too. It pivots vanishes into
the nearest creepy door aka weird Gate aka portal, leaving
the kids gossiping and it's wake.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
And then Steve gets a good idea based on like
a cookie that.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
Soft inside storytelling.
Speaker 5 (05:24):
I want the peanut line, peanut.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
But he's like, hey, you know what the you know what,
the portal's kind of a peanut popper. What a peanut opper?
Speaker 4 (05:34):
And they're like, what are you talking about?
Speaker 3 (05:36):
You talking about.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
I know it's a very very kind of weird way
to introduce the idea, Steve's idea of what if we
just ram the portal with the car, which they do.
So they ram the portal with the car and next
thing you know, they're in the upside down. Meanwhile, in
the upside down, Holly is wading around down.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
There and.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
She's she's like, uh, she hears there's a doorbell, and
there's a knock on the door, and then there's weird
things that are happening, and she's like walking out towards
the place that Vecna so Henry told her not to go,
and it's kind of like rock formation. And she gets
there and she thinks she sees like a monster maybe,
(06:26):
but and she's very very scared, but it's not a monster.
When she looks up.
Speaker 4 (06:31):
It is Max Great Cliffhagger. I was actually like.
Speaker 6 (06:41):
Okay, this is where I was like, I was truly like,
wait a minute, guys, maybe this should have been the
end of the fast chapter.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
I feel like this would have hooked people to come back.
Speaker 5 (06:50):
But it did make me watch the next episode, so
I get it, you know, like I want to hear
to know.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
I can't wait for a discussion to talk about both
the drug, the Turnbow family, and like kidnap the kids
plan insane the very next plan in the next episode,
which is based wildly on the Great Escape. Let's take
a break back to talk about episode four. Okay, Episode four.
Speaker 5 (07:33):
Sorcerer nice William Friedkin reference that yes, a little freakin
kind of freaking.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
This episode begins with the idea that you know, the
government is basically losing, steadily losing control of the town.
There's attacks, there's all these things are happening. So they're
rounding up all the kids between a certain age group
who are left in town, of which they are like
seventy something, and they round them up for protective custom
(08:00):
and our heroes realizing that the kids contacted by mister
What's at aka Henry Creole aka Vecna among them are
going to be important keys to accessing the upside down
so they can rescue Holly. They have to come up
with a plan in order to break these kids out
of Max containment. So based on the old timey movie
(08:27):
The Great Escape starrying Steve McQueen, they come up with
the truly fucking insane plan that involves using the conveniently
constructed tunnels that run under Hawkins to access the bunkers,
at which point they will using Derek Turnbow as an
(08:50):
inside agent, get the kids out.
Speaker 5 (08:55):
Yes, absolutely crazy plan and also again like, this was
definitely one of those times where I was like, I
love a story about kids going up against adults and
adults being useless, but those stories are usually like ninety minutes.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
Long in a slasher film.
Speaker 5 (09:11):
This is a show that consistently pushes the boundaries of
making you not ask where are the adults, de joyce
and hop and not know like a single cool adult
that could help them, Like why are the only people
they can team up with like ten year olds? So
because the only people they can team up with are
in high school. They get about thirty percent into the
plan before it and revels security.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
Titans truck shows up early.
Speaker 5 (09:32):
Someone with a clipboard is counting and does a better
job of the family counting home alones own children because
they notice a.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
Headcount that doesn't add up.
Speaker 5 (09:41):
The soldiers are not confused in any way, shape or form.
When everything blows up, they are absolutely ready and boom,
flashlights pin the kids like insects, and suddenly the clean
rescue dissolves into shouting, sprinting, and the kids scattering through
the parking lot like a jail break at midnight.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Yes, the escape plan goes totally crazy. Meanwhile, Uh, in
the upside Down, Dustin figured they come to the wall.
They're at the wall. Our tracking team is in the
upside Down. There at the wall, Dustin does some math
that I don't actually understand, and I don't understand like
how he did it, but he figures out that.
Speaker 4 (10:25):
The wall is.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
A complete circle around Hawkins and at the perfect center
of the circle is the Hawkins lap. Meanwhile, inside the
upside Down, Hopin or eleven are fighting their way through
the secret military facility that they believe houses. Vecna Ale's
powers are kind of like not working because of some
(10:49):
kind of like frequency or power inhibitor or thing that
they're hop In her calling her kryptonite. But that's fine
because Hopper like kills fifty people in the course of
the two episodes. He's just like gunning down. He guns
down so many people. In this episode, he's very comes out.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
About being put in the goo lags for sure.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
He's very very upset.
Speaker 4 (11:17):
Doctor K is there.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Doctor K captures him for a second, but they figure
that all out and Uh eleven is basically incapacitated, and
Hopper goes to the room where they believe Vecna is.
It's behind this big metal door and he opens it
up and he's like, Okay, Eleven, you're gonna get out
of here. Head that way. I'm going to go in
(11:40):
there and deal with this. And she touches like she's like,
what do you have inside your jacket? And you look
in there and he's got like a true suicide vest. Yes,
and he is ready to go in there and suicide
vest himself while thinking about his.
Speaker 4 (11:55):
Daughter who died.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
But it turns out that's completely unnecessary because it's not
Vecna in there. And I think one of the most
satisfying yes, like Easter Egg Loop closes of the series.
This is from like season two.
Speaker 4 (12:15):
Right where they talk season three.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
Yeah, season two or three. I mean, it's not Vecna
in there.
Speaker 4 (12:21):
It's eight eleven, sister number eight h chugging.
Speaker 5 (12:27):
Just guys, I told you it would come back, and
I have to say it has come back.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
I love this plotline.
Speaker 5 (12:33):
I was very excited to see this, and the lost
threads of the episode essentially pull us back into the
mind scape where we learn that how Max has been
surviving is it's like an exception. It's really interesting essentially,
as we know, Vecna's built a kind of physical mind
(12:54):
palace within the upside down that feels appealing to kids
like Holly, to kids like Derek. Is this kind of
beautiful house, but we know that the kids are ultimately
dying in their Max has not died because Max has
found a cave which Vecna is too scared to go into.
It's a memory he doesn't want to return to. And
(13:16):
Max is obviously going to be our.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
Big, badass heroes here.
Speaker 5 (13:20):
And we see that while Holly is terrified, Max is
like fucking ready and something is waking up above them.
We don't know what it is, but something is changing.
There is this strange kind of almost a shiver in
the world. And then we go back up to the
top and we see what has changed.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
So at the macv The walls between like Hawkins and
the upside Down are super super thin now, so demogorgans
are like pouring out of mortals. They're taking on the soldiers.
It's a Seesaw battle in it. You feel like the
soldiers actually might fight them off, especially when they come
out with the flamethrowers and they start burning the demo organs.
(14:00):
And Will, who is his connection to these upside down
creatures now, is so strong that he feels like he's
burning when the demo Gorgans are burning. And then just
when it seems like, oh, maybe the human's got this,
Vecna shows up that it looks very muscular and viny.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
Now I know everyone was cracking me up. He looked
like his waist is snatched, like he was like a
drag queen, like compared to the Fast Season. Now he's
like fabulous.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
He shows up and he kills a guy by like
shoving his little roots through the back of his head.
Speaker 4 (14:36):
It's very gross.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
And then he picks up Will and he's like Will
and it basically says like I want to thank you
because when I broke you, I realized like how easy
it is to break kids. They're so weak, and that's
the key. I hope this is the key to my
whole plan now to target the kids because the kids
are so fucking weak. And meanwhile, the Demo Gordons are
(14:59):
like leading off the ca kids, and so Vecna's like, okay,
well that's why I'm doing this and it's all thanks
to you, and then he goes off, follows the Demo
Gorgans away, and the Demo Gorgans are in the process
of like just being about to kill all of Will's friends, Lucas, everybody,
(15:19):
like the people in the tunnels, like it's just about
to be a fucking slaughter. And then Will, like Neo
and the Matrix realizes upon reflecting on the words that
Robin shared with him when they had their little talk
about the fact that they're both gay.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
And also he's like basically an antenna and that was.
Speaker 5 (15:43):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
He realizes that actually, like Mike was right, there is
a connection with the Demo Gorgans and I can actually
control them. And he freezes the Demo Gorgans in mid air,
snapping their necks and is standing there with his eyes
rolled back, looking super super powerful and terrifying, and that
is the end of the Mirama finale of Stranger Things,
(16:08):
the final season. Let's take a quick break and bring.
Speaker 4 (16:10):
In Joel, super producer Joel.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
And talk about these episodes. All right, Welcome to the episode, Joel.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
Joelle, it makes sense. It makes sense.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
So many things to talk about in these episodes, so
many like things that I loved that I didn't we
didn't even talk about in the recap, such as Eleven's
idea that the soldier whose name I forget must know
what the wall is because he peede on it.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
Yeah, she logic.
Speaker 5 (17:02):
She still has not been taught how to exist in
like the real human world outside of the institution.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
And I blame that solely on Hopa. I got problems
with this kid logic.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
But Joelle, your thoughts on these two episodes and then
the season thus far.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
Yeah, the first two episodes were a slog for me,
real difficult to get through. I was literally got three
and four because I was like, here we are, We're
in it. Stuff is happening. I'm liking the new Kids
quite a lot. I'm not as on the Derek fanboard
as some other people are. I still, you know, he's okay,
(17:41):
Derek's fine. I like Holly, though, I like Little Sister.
I love her outfit to explore the woods one hundred percent.
You aced it girls so cute, love your color theory,
and I like her, like her connection to D and
D and like being a new like sort of lover
of it and kind of learning about it. I think
that's really cute. I thought the action and these sequences
(18:01):
were great. I was a little nervous about them splitting
everybody up at first, uh, because I think it works
better when our main group of kids is together. But
it's been working out, okay, Like we're learning a little
bit about eleven. All right, I'll take it. My boys
are not happy together right now, Steve and Dustin, and
I need them to figure it out. Ace. Actually, I'm
(18:24):
not okay with them not being good together.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Well, sad, Can I just say one thing very quickly, Dustin?
Why is Dustin so fucking mean this season?
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Right? Okay?
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Like, Like I get that he's obviously he's having a
hard time in the wake of Eddie's death, and I
get that, but it constantly manifesting is like being an
asshole to his friends.
Speaker 4 (18:48):
It's like, Dustin.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Is it because he's sure he everybody else drew up
and not really tall and Dustin.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
Okay, I am sure, I'm angry, so fair.
Speaker 5 (19:08):
No, I think this is a good read, guys, because
I do think it's one of the weak aspects of
the two chunks.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
That we've gotten so far.
Speaker 5 (19:16):
I do think they're leaning a little bit more into
things people don't want. People want Dustin and Steve to
be friends. Four episodes is enough time for them to
wrap it up and come back together. I don't want
to see Steve have to you know, kill himself to
save Dustin, to prove that he's, you know, a good friend.
I also think that they're trying to do something around
the nuance of when you are bullied, you can.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
Become a bully, or you can become cruel, or you can.
Speaker 5 (19:40):
Become in But the show does not have enough time
for those kind of plot points.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
Guys.
Speaker 5 (19:44):
There is not enough nuance and juice there. Get to
the fights, get to Dustin doing more cool maths and
being a genius. That was always a great plot point
him in it. Steve was so funny together as himbos Joelle.
Other big takeaways from the first four episodes.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Uh Robin a top tier character. I'm really loving her.
I will say. I was concerned about the queerness of
it all. You know, we've had little hints in the
past and we were there. It felt like they were like,
we're not gonna really go there, but we'll just we'll
just queer bait you a little bit. This season they said,
no queer baiting.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
We're all full full till it's it's.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
Gay as hell, and the gabies are uniting to figure
out their shit and like lesbian support. I want to
troll mom, I said it, but it's kind of getting me. Guys,
I'm kind of really feeling the vibes of being like,
it's not about your because because accurately your first crush,
no matter your orientation, it feels like, oh, it's a
lot about them, has nothing to do with them. It's
all about you discovering a lot about yourself. And I
(20:41):
was like, oh, that's not really a coming out story.
We get a lot of we get a lot of
like my parents don't understand me. We get a lot
of like society doesn't enjoy me, but we don't get
a lot of Hey, like that is still your friend,
but it's not really about him. This is about you,
like center on yourself, your power culture. Then I was like, oh, man,
I like Will that much, but this story is bringing
me around on him. That's kind of got me excited
(21:03):
for where they're going to go from here.
Speaker 5 (21:06):
I really like the elder queer conversation because I don't
think we get that a lot. I don't think we
get a lot of, like, especially in genre stories, space
for queer kids to be like kind to each other
or help each other.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
So I love that also, was it just me?
Speaker 5 (21:22):
I feel like in episode four they were absolutely like
making it seem like there was a thing between Mike
and Will, like when that conversations kind of crush on Mike, yes,
for a long time. But what I'm saying is in
that moment when Mike kind of starts to have ideas
about Will's powers, there's this awkward kind of interplay and
(21:44):
Will even like Mike like touches his shoulder and Will
kind of moves away.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
And I just I think they might actually go there.
I don't think I think.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
You might get at most a confession of I have
liked you, and he'll be like, that's so great, bro,
We're still friends.
Speaker 4 (21:59):
They kind at the end.
Speaker 5 (22:01):
Of like they kind of did that end of season three,
Season four, like have this. I think that at least
I think that's gonna be an attempted kiss. That's why
I think, because I saw I saw a little maybe
at the end of the world, you know, between them,
a little flirtation.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
I'm here, Yes, I'm just finally. I'm glad Max is back.
Speaker 4 (22:26):
We needed our girl.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
Uh really elevates this cast quite a lot, and she
brings interesting angle into the story. I think, like Holly
being in this sort of like VECNA bubble, Uh and
then Max were bursting that bubble. I think it makes
the world like really interesting. And it also because the
end episode four with like, hey, the military VECNA not
(22:50):
all aligned. We thought that they had VECNA. They don't.
I love fighting two big bads on two separate fronts.
Going into this last we have two more batches of episodes.
I think it gives us a lot to go on.
I don't know what's gonna happen next. I have like
almost zero predictions. It's so open.
Speaker 5 (23:08):
This is actually something that me and Jason talked about
that I think is a big compliment. I feel like
generally this show is relatively predictable because it's taking from
a lot of stuff that we love, and that's part
of the nostalgia. It's part of what makes it work
is the familiarity. But they are blowing that up this season,
and I do respect that because I too.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
Do not know where this is going to go. I
do have some questions for.
Speaker 5 (23:28):
You, guys, Joelle, where are we going with what Vecna wants?
Like he's gonna kill these kids, He's gonna connect to
the upside down, But what does he want?
Speaker 3 (23:38):
That's the big question here. Okay, what do you think
he wants?
Speaker 1 (23:41):
Vegna has gone full mustache twirly. I'm not sure how
I felt. I would actually from the writers talk to
me about how we feel about Vecna's big speech, and
they were like, kids are so vulnerable and so easy
to corrupt, and you were the easiest. And I was like, Okay,
I get it.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
He's bad.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
Did it feel like overkilled you? Or did it it
did that work?
Speaker 2 (24:03):
I mean it felt like it was a little overkill
in the sense that it's so clearly setting up the
show to CounterPunch.
Speaker 4 (24:15):
The show is.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
In the show's entire thesis is that kids are strong,
and that found family is incredible and vibrant, and kids
are resilient and powerful, and so it felt a little
overkill in the sense that it's so clearly just a
set up the show to like.
Speaker 4 (24:34):
Dunk on him. But I also kind of liked it
because it's not we're not.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
It was the first real explanation from Vecna about like
what he's doing, and I think we need more. I'm
hoping that in this back half the back five, we
will get more Vecna monologues.
Speaker 5 (24:53):
Yeah, let me ask you about that. Actually, I think
you make a great point, Joelle. The thing I'm interested
in is that the truth of like Vector's experience or
is that really like Vector saying that shit to fuck
with will, because that's obviously what the people at.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
Hawkins's Lab thought about kids, you know that.
Speaker 5 (25:14):
I think they're trying to do some kind of trauma
cycle here because he was like tortured and put into
that space by the government, and I wonder if they're
doing some kind of thing where he doesn't really feel
that way, or there is gonna be more of a
complexity to it, because I think his interest in the
kids and where he puts them, and the way that
someone like Holly gets put in that beautiful house that
(25:37):
isn't scary and he wants to lure her in, but
then someone like Will just gets used as like a
scary human battery. I just think there's some really interesting
complexities and layers there that we.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
Could get into.
Speaker 5 (25:48):
But the monologue personally didn't work for me just because
of this. Really, Like Jason said, I do think that
the point is so that Will can then be like
I am strong, and that goes back to that predictability.
It doesn't necessarily feel like I love a monologue where
a villain just gives away his whole plan because he
thinks it's such a good plan. You know, Vecna didn't
(26:09):
have that confidence here.
Speaker 3 (26:13):
Vekna's plan.
Speaker 5 (26:14):
We still don't know what it is, and I still
don't really believe in any way, shape or form that
the government is collecting the kids or saving the kids
for any kind of good reason. I think they're trying
to once again work out how to militarize these kids
against Vekna. So I'm very interested to see if the
finale is kind of like a anti military, anti VECNA
(26:35):
kind of free for all, and then it's about Hawkins
taking back Hawkins as like a community. I don't know
I'm very interested because the final episode is gonna show.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
The finale will show on.
Speaker 5 (26:48):
The big screen on December thirty first and January first,
and they're showing it at like five hundred cinemas. Some
are doing free screening, some are not. That's got to
be a crazy episode because I was watching the episode
last night, episode four, and even though it is a
great lots of great action sequences, I watch it on
my projector and it definitely looks bad if you watch
(27:09):
it on your TV.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
The projector's fun because.
Speaker 5 (27:12):
Big, and it feels embracing and you're in the action,
but it feels like you're also seeing too much that
they don't want you to see, of the kind of
stuff that isn't maybe as clean or is it, you know,
some of the little bits and bobs that they want
to hide in the action. I want to know what
that finale looks like and whether it's gonna hurt or
(27:34):
help it to be in the movie theaters. I will
be there on January first because they're doing a free
screening at the Egyptian. I'm taking a couple of friends
of mine who loved the show, but like, I don't
know if it's gonna hurt it or help it, Like,
do you guys have any feeling on that.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
I think it will matter because it's the finale and
so there's nowhere to go.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
I think it's just.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
An opportunity to sort of if you've been a lifelong fan,
to sort of like lifelong, if you've embraced the show
songs it's been on, you can go with your friends
and sort of watch and conclusion. I think for Vecna's
like big, it'll be interesting because like what we learn
in episode four is like, Okay, he's basically created a
circle in the upside down that's impenetrable by either military
(28:16):
or you know, Eleven's powers. So you can't stab it,
you can't mind wipe it away. It's solid. We know
that in some way by the canyon, something has happened
there that he's not approaching. We know you can kind
of live in his memory. Yeah, and we know you
kind of live inside of his memories. I'm wondering if
(28:37):
you sort of making me upside down a physical memory
palace that he can sort of because he can also
change his body, like when he appears to Holly, he's
fully formed as Henry. I think he's trying to create
an all world. At least that would be the most
interesting thing to me, because I'm not really interested in
like destruction. For destruction's sake, it dries up. But you
(28:59):
all screwed up my world and stole my childhood. So
I'm bringing a bunch of children into a protected space
where I can relive not just my childhood, but it's
in a pristine sort of way, and in a way
that I wish it had been. That to me is
a fascin interesting Yeah, exactly exactly, And I think too,
I'm also interested in Max makes a big deal about
(29:21):
the music and physical touch being the thing that was
going to be able to bring her back to the
real world, And the first thing we see Henry give
Holly is a tape that she immediately starts playing and
connects to you. And I'm wondering if music can be
both a savior and an anchor to this world in
a way that maybe will allow her not to escape.
I'm skeptical of Holly's spy abilities. She's doing good so far,
(29:44):
but can you send her back into that house with.
Speaker 4 (29:46):
All of this knowledge?
Speaker 1 (29:48):
Can we talk about all of the different game plans
that were set up, and we had a lot of.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
We got to talk about because these are the most
cock they're cock may me cock ma fuck plants. I
mean the first one in episode three where it's like, Okay,
we're gonna go to the Turnbo farm, We're gonna drug everyone,
and then we're gonna kidnap the kids. And Joyce is
(30:18):
like straight up like, yes, this is a kidnapping, but
hear me.
Speaker 7 (30:22):
Out Erica into Dexter, They're like, take us syringe if
they don't eat the pie.
Speaker 3 (30:33):
Okay.
Speaker 5 (30:33):
I do love Erica, though Erica in the next America
PepsiCo dude, Erica is like when she's so ready.
Speaker 6 (30:42):
She said, Tina, I told you to eat that pie
ohever and then she gives out the injection, like insane plan,
especially because I feel like the fact that Hawkins is
under military occupation means that you could go to the
Tombous and go, hey, guys, we need Derek.
Speaker 3 (31:03):
There's some fucked up shit going on. We know more
about it. His blah blah blah.
Speaker 5 (31:07):
I feel like you could have convinced them because so
much we had stuff's going on. Drugging them and stealing
that kid's bad idea, just like extremely bad idea, never
gonna walk out well.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
And then there's episode four with this like kakamamie great
escape plan that involves accessing the tunnels. Thank god the
tunnels run in the way they do, figuring out, sending
Derek in as like an inside agent to round up
(31:37):
all the mister What's it contacts into one place, break
in through the bottom of the bathroom, and then quietly
whisk away all the what's it kids out of the tunnels. Crazily,
this does not work because of a snitch. We can
talk about that if.
Speaker 3 (31:58):
You want this plan as well.
Speaker 4 (32:03):
I'm like, what are we doing?
Speaker 3 (32:04):
Guess okay, lazy, I got as. There has been a
lot of bad plans because like also remember.
Speaker 5 (32:11):
That, like the third season there was kind of this
weird like the Russians are gonna take over America via
four like via the upside Down. Is like, there's been
many plans throughout this and they never go particularly well.
Speaker 3 (32:29):
Honestly, Stranger Things is a history of terrible plans. I
will say.
Speaker 5 (32:33):
Though that super producer Ian did have a good idea
of what Veckner's plan could be, which is what if
he is merging dimension x slash the upside Down with
the real world because in season four he needed to
kill four people to open the four portals. So if
he keeps killing people, will he just open up essentially
(32:54):
a point where Hawkins and the Upside Down becomes the
same and becomes one impossible?
Speaker 3 (33:00):
I think is really interesting, Yeah, and.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
Would be interesting overall to like, again, what is his
plan to do with Hawkins? Do you want to be
mare of it?
Speaker 5 (33:08):
Right?
Speaker 1 (33:08):
Are we are we nineteen sixty six? Like Batman stop Astralia,
like I'll be mayor of the city now? Or is
he is he trying to to sing? That's very joking, right,
I'm really curious to see how that works out. I
think for plans on this show, particularly this one, like
to give the smallest bit of grace. These are people
from Indiana with two hours to figure out how we're
(33:31):
going to try to save some kids' lives, and we're
not going to convince the wealthy Republicans or the military
to adjust what they're doing to go along with us.
So is it bananas? Yes? Here's what's really upsetting to
me is nobody had like there's not a plan B.
And that is always concerning to me like, so we're
just gonna tunnel in right underneath the military and be fine,
do we have any.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
Well, they're not going to tunnel in. The tunnels exist
very conveniently. The tunnels are already there. Okay, wait, there
is going to go into the tunnels.
Speaker 5 (34:03):
Sis brings up a big This brings up a big
question for me.
Speaker 3 (34:08):
How pissed off are.
Speaker 5 (34:10):
You if you are the Duffer brothers and every single
thing you are doing in this show is being done
in it Welcome to darry On hbox tunnels under.
Speaker 3 (34:20):
The city, a spooky wall. There is a circle completely around.
What is the motivation of Vecna? What is the motivation
of Penny Wise?
Speaker 5 (34:31):
I feel like this is a badly timed release for
Netflix because they could have never seen how it Welcomed
to Terry would kind of be part of that feedback loop,
right so sid both of.
Speaker 4 (34:43):
Them, you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (34:44):
I think it's I think it's interesting because well, listen,
Stranger Things is the much bigger property. So I think
you might be maybe you would argue that it's bad
timing for Welcome to Jerry. That said, if we want
to tell you, yes, if we find out that Vecna's
plan is to make everyone scared so the kids taste delicious.
Speaker 3 (35:04):
That I'm fucking telling no. They already said that in
one of these episodes. They said something.
Speaker 5 (35:13):
Where they were like, Vekna prefers it when people are scared,
but he will also take them if they're not scared,
like he and they mentioned something about the flight and
I was like, no, this is too much, guys.
Speaker 3 (35:24):
I was like, you guys went too hard in on
the Derry law this season. And obviously we.
Speaker 5 (35:29):
Are blessed because Welcome to Derry has incredible writing, incredible casting.
I just think it's really interesting for the two to
be coming out at the same time, and how many
similarities there are with the tunnels and all this kind
of stuff. Also, I just got to say, we talked
about it, Welcome for Derry. We've critiqued this specific thing.
We've had deep conversations about it because we care about it.
But you know what, it Welcomed for Derry has indigenous
(35:50):
characters who are a major part of the plotline. They
introduced an indigenous character last year in the last season
of Stranger Things.
Speaker 3 (35:57):
In season four, not last year. It's been a long time.
Speaker 5 (36:00):
I'm called angus I believe, and he was a fantastic
character who was a pizza delivery boy, really popular, and
they just never invited him back to the final season.
So that's another thing where where Darry is working for me.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
Let's quickly talk about doctor k What does she want
talk about?
Speaker 3 (36:21):
Mustache twirlings?
Speaker 2 (36:23):
I mean, this is this is like a just an
evil kobookie dance par xcellence. She does, you know, in
front of the bullet riddled bodies of like a dozen
military people and creepy crawley tentacles and stuff, She's just like,
now I'm gonna monologue my entire evil plan.
Speaker 4 (36:46):
What is clearly she was involved.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
I think in the original experiment she must have, because
why else would Eleven feel so.
Speaker 4 (36:58):
Strongly about her? What is her deal?
Speaker 2 (37:01):
Like? What is what is she trying to do down there?
And what are they trying to do with eight?
Speaker 5 (37:07):
I think, well, I think they're rounding up all the kids,
and I think they're rounding up anyone who can lead
them to eleven.
Speaker 3 (37:13):
And she essentially eleven.
Speaker 5 (37:16):
That was the closest Eleven's ever been to escaping was
when she basically found her own family. So I think
that yes, she's gonna be representing the military industrial complex
their plans. But I do think if we're looking at
Vekner's history, and as many of you have pointed out,
including super producer Aaron, who will probably come on and
(37:36):
talk about this as we cover the rest of the
season when it drops, but this notion of how this
connects to the Broadway play that recently came out, which
has been one a massive success, but two is heavily
about Vekna and Henry and Henry's childhood, and I think
that she is going to be a connection to that.
When Eleven says to her, I've seen what you did.
(37:58):
I've seen what you've done, I think that Eleven knows
that she was involved with it. And I also think
that the caves are.
Speaker 3 (38:05):
Going to be.
Speaker 5 (38:06):
My feeling is wherever doctor k did the first experiments
on Vecna or something. That's kind of my feeling is
like before it was official, it was kind of this
nightmarish space. Though I will tell you the reason the
cave is really there is because it's to give Max
a Lost Boys inspired hangout that's directly.
Speaker 3 (38:24):
The Caves from Lost Boys.
Speaker 5 (38:25):
But I think that the notion of why Vecna won't
go there is because they there is this connection to
doctor k and she needs Eleven. But why that's the
biggest thing. She keeps saying she needs the girl, she
needs Eleven. But what is it about eleven that is
so much more powerful? What is it about eleven? Does
(38:45):
she think Eleven can be that connection between the two
worlds because Eleven has connections on the upside down and
in the real world. I don't know, but I think
it's clear she's going to be our true villain.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
Yeah, interesting, I think I did you agree? I think
she's the worst doctor Brent. I think a more dedicated
has been here from the very first, Like her knowledge
on the creature was so much more intense than we've
seen for a while.
Speaker 3 (39:14):
She knows.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
That part too.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
We're not going to be this right where she's Vecna's mom.
Speaker 3 (39:23):
So I was thinking about that.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
So we have seen Henry's mom before, played by a
different actress, but there is some years between when we
saw her and now. She did not appear to be
military in the flashback we saw, so I'm hoping that's
not the case. Also, it's really annoying when like it's
the evil mom we've seen it, and if you're not
going to play into it early enough, like you're seeing
(39:47):
it as it was at the end, really weak saw.
So I'm really hoping it's not that. What I'm hoping
is like we we haven't seen a lot of women
in this space as would have been the time Sara,
not a lot of women in the military, especially not
in leadership positions as over her to Gardner as much
respect and fear at this time, at her advanced age,
(40:08):
means she's been kicking ass for a long long time.
I wonder if she didn't give up. I don't want
Vecna to be her kid. I wouldn't mind if she
had given up a kid to the program at some
point to be like, yeah, tests on my kid, Like
this is how dedicated I am to the cause.
Speaker 3 (40:25):
That's interesting, Actually, I like that question.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
Why doesn't Vecna kill Will.
Speaker 4 (40:32):
For something?
Speaker 1 (40:33):
You were the first?
Speaker 2 (40:36):
Yeah, he needs him for something.
Speaker 3 (40:38):
Here's my baby.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
What if Vecna he wants his childhood back and he
wants friends. He's getting a bunch of kids together that
he can be friends with in his perfect little memory palace.
But somebody's got to be Vecna. So he's gonna make
Will be Vecna. Yes, and Will is going to be
the evil side of him, and he can separate all
(41:04):
the good pre Vecna Henry parts of him to be
the parts that live in the memory.
Speaker 5 (41:12):
I think one thousand percent think that that is actually
very correct Jason, because my understanding of the conflicts within
the exponential law of the books and the plays and
everything is that there was an internal battle inside Henry
between good and evil, and he wanted to not go
to dimension X and not become a monster. And I
(41:34):
think the idea that he is essentially going to like
Majus himself, like Adam Warlock did, where there is a
separation between the evil and the good and he puts
all of the evil into Will, I think is very interesting.
I also think that maybe that's why he needed Will
in the first place. He says, we're going to do
such beautiful things together. Maybe he needs someone who can
(41:54):
become the next Vekna. And because he knew Will had
these kind of similar powers to him, and he could
sense that he was able to kind of manifest them
or encourage them within him through this horrific fight. I'm
very interested how this can get wrapped up in a
satisfying way.
Speaker 6 (42:14):
I just don't know if it can.
Speaker 5 (42:16):
Okay, wait wait wait wait, In that case, let's have
some fun quickly, worst ending. What would the worst ending
of this, worst twist, worst ending, worst tie in, what
would be the worst version, and then we can it
cannot be worst in that.
Speaker 2 (42:32):
For me, any kind of version of you know, the
Wizard of Oz.
Speaker 4 (42:36):
It was all a dream.
Speaker 2 (42:37):
Oh god, oh god, yeah, absolutely horrendous, and.
Speaker 3 (42:46):
I hate that. I don't love that.
Speaker 1 (42:50):
Usually I am pro kill the kids here. I think
if you start murdering off the kids, that it becomes like,
especially after we get that nice like speech from Mike
to his sister about like, you know, once once everything's done,
like the party goes somewhere else and they rest together.
But I think that's really got to be end goal.
(43:10):
You framed it as kids are powerful and we're frequently
getting happy endings. I think if they were to like
renig on that and suddenly be like, actually it's a
dark reality, it's gritty, I'd be like, don't know the
whole time. Please just give these kids a happy ending.
I can't stand it. What about you, Rosie, what's the
worst possible ending?
Speaker 5 (43:27):
I think for me though, and sadly, I do think
this could end up being the case. I think for me,
the worst version of this is where Will suddenly becomes
the ultimate kind of final Girl character, rather than it
being a collaboration, because I think we've followed Elle and
her powers for so long, and I think that I
would I'm excited to see her and him fight together.
(43:50):
Please put her in a different outfit. I know that's
the Josh Broling Goonies outfit.
Speaker 3 (43:54):
I have watched it.
Speaker 5 (43:55):
I've seen the Goonies. I've seen the Goonies. He is
sexy in that movie. I had a crush on him.
Speaker 3 (44:00):
I love the outfit.
Speaker 5 (44:01):
It is not looking great on Willie Bobby Brown. Please
let her out of the outfit, but then let her
and Will like fight alongside each other, use their powers together. Like,
I want to see that inherent kind of connection because
of the upside down that they never really got to have.
Speaker 3 (44:16):
I think that would be really cool. Yeah, if it
ends up being.
Speaker 5 (44:19):
That, like Will saves the day kind of how it
was though, the emotional beat of that worked where everyone
got pulled back together. You thought it was going to
be the most dark, dire moment, Everyone's gonna die. Will
gets his powers. That's a huge triumphant moment. But now
we've had that, how does he use them?
Speaker 3 (44:35):
We can't.
Speaker 5 (44:35):
That's not a surprise for the finale, now, you know.
I guess that some of them would get powers. I
hope we see more powers. Maybe Max post upside down powers.
Speaker 1 (44:45):
Yes, I would love to see Max with some powers.
I think the whole house scene where they like where
they're setting it up for the demo Gore going to
come through. They've lured and they've cut out the big
piece of the floor. What is that family going to
think when they get back to their house and not
only the drugged or there's a hole in our floor.
Everything is smashed like it's gonna be a real root awakening.
It seems like they have the money and it's the eighties.
Speaker 5 (45:06):
I think about this, think about other and this is
good because this is a topic I did want to
talk about because I gotta say as an outsider, and
I'm sure it's the same as an American watching this stuff,
but like, how many shows right in America do they
love to put a town in quarantine?
Speaker 3 (45:23):
They be putting a town in quarantine.
Speaker 5 (45:25):
In every show Riverdale, there's a town in quarantine.
Speaker 3 (45:28):
The Blob a town in Qualifine.
Speaker 5 (45:30):
Going back to the old school, you know, last of
us massive plot points about.
Speaker 4 (45:34):
Town quarantine, Buffy in quarantine.
Speaker 5 (45:36):
Sunnydale gets quarantined at one point, Like there is this
cultural idea of the American Yeah, the Dome, the Americans
coming in in the Simpsons movie, and it is this
very interesting cultural trope and I'm so intrigued to know
if it comes from a real history of that or
if it's this kind of Cold War esque fear. But
(45:57):
I do think that the whole fact that they are
quarantined in this space and they cannot leave makes me
wonder like if Joyce kidnapped my kid, I feel like
the military would.
Speaker 3 (46:10):
Just shoot her in the head when they found out,
you know what I mean.
Speaker 5 (46:13):
Like I can't quite get the duality of its military occupation,
but you can just do whatever you want.
Speaker 4 (46:21):
With that kind of wide eyed look.
Speaker 3 (46:24):
You know, well you.
Speaker 4 (46:27):
I love my son.
Speaker 2 (46:29):
I think it's a common he's he's he's actually the
the the dangerously cute dustin nothing nothing.
Speaker 4 (46:38):
The other nicknames.
Speaker 3 (46:41):
I think.
Speaker 1 (46:45):
Police and uh are are very intense self reliance because
well you noticed in these these bubble stories, not like
the military is suddenly like at you door, demanding a
bunch of things. It's like, you just can't leave. The
military's in the population. They're like, we just need to
segregate you and keep you within this space. But whatever
(47:07):
you do in here, that's your guys' business, just don't
bring it outside of here. So I really think that's
sort of been the running thing. I was just gonna say,
you know, when we're in that sort of like home
alone house set up in everything. To me, that was
a real showcase of like how the kids can work together.
They were pretty successful as if we're looking at all
of their plans on a scale like was the final
(47:29):
shotgun a little slow to get off, Yes, but for
the most part, mission accomplished, goal achieved, And that to
me says that for their next plan, especially now that
they have us super powered up, will hopefully Eleven's on
her way back to the team.
Speaker 5 (47:44):
Fine.
Speaker 1 (47:44):
I think we're gonna have some good organized movements from
the group going forward, and I'm looking forward to seeing that.
Speaker 2 (47:50):
I agree. I have one thing that I'm pretty sure
is gonna happen, since they absolutely teased it in these
two episodes, Hopper getting.
Speaker 4 (48:05):
Hop is he can't wait to die. He let you
know in this episode that he's he wants to go.
He's thinking already to let go.
Speaker 1 (48:15):
Four times he says goodbye to Joys before he goes
into the upside down. He gets a goodbye on the radio,
and then he says goodbye and the door. He's like,
I'm so proud of you. Gotta go.
Speaker 2 (48:25):
He's a look on his face when he has to
come back open the door and be like, I didn't
get to blow myself up, so disappointed. You just know
when it comes time to close the final portal or
whatever the thing is, it's gonna be hop running in
(48:46):
there like Barry Sanders with his suicide vest On, and
he cannot wait to do it.
Speaker 4 (48:53):
He can't wait.
Speaker 5 (48:54):
My dream scenario is the l gets to kill half
because I do think he's a terrible dad.
Speaker 3 (48:59):
Now, is that gonna happen just because she's gonna kill him?
Speaker 5 (49:01):
No, bond, No, But what if he gets like possessed
by the under well, then the dem Gorgans or something
they have to and they have to blow him up
and she has to.
Speaker 1 (49:11):
Blow how much power to let that happen? Got the
power to undo? So it seems like Okay, that's a
good point.
Speaker 3 (49:19):
I like that.
Speaker 2 (49:21):
I like well, five more episodes left. We're excited to
talk about it. On the next episodes of X ray Vision,
we're diving into the biggest.
Speaker 4 (49:27):
News of the week, more plural us.
Speaker 2 (49:30):
Also it welcome to Dairy and all out coverage coming soon.
That's it for this episode that we'll sing Bye bye.
X ray Vision is hosted by Jason Concepcion and Rosie
Knight and is a production of iHeart Podcast.
Speaker 5 (49:43):
Our executive producers are Joel Monique and Aaron Kaufman.
Speaker 2 (49:47):
Our supervising producer is Abusafar.
Speaker 5 (49:50):
Our producers are Common, Laurent Dean, Jhonathson, and Bay Wax.
Speaker 2 (49:54):
A theme song is by Brian Vasquez, with alternate theme
songs by Aaron Kauffman.
Speaker 5 (49:58):
Special thanks to Soul Rubin, Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman and
Heidie are Discord moderator m
Hosts And Creators
Jason Concepcion
Rosie Knight
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