May 13, 2025 • 59 mins
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Jason and Rosie gather the Council of Jackson Hole (Producers: Aaron, Carmen, and Joelle) to discuss the first 5 episodes of The Last of Us season 2. We’re starting out with the big questions, would you have survived to Jackson? Or become infected right away? And asking the hard questions, is 7 episodes enough? Join us as we anticipate the finale episodes!
And don't worry, producer Aaron is safe from the infected; he just had to leave after our 2nd ad break!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Worry.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
Today's episode contains spoilers for the Last of Us Season two,
episodes one through five.
Speaker 3 (00:06):
You word.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Hello, My name is Jason Seton and I'm Rosday Night
and welcome back to text revision of the podcast where we
dive deep bi dear favorite shows, movies, comics and pop
culture comedy.
Speaker 4 (00:32):
You from by our podcast or Where Were You?
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Three episodes a week every Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday plus Blustners
plus Us.
Speaker 5 (00:40):
In today's episode, we are going to that very strange,
overly well built Yes I know it existed before. Thank you,
Discord Jackson Holetown Council meeting for a round table where
we will be calling in our very own Last of
Us Council to talk episodes one through five.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Let's open this meeting of the Jackson Hole X Ray
Vision Council by introducing the council members. First up, Superducer,
First up, our first super producer, Joel Monique, Joel, how
are you yo?
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Very excited to talk about this very up and down
season of the Last of Us. We got some high highs,
some weird loads, and some interesting changes.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
It's an uneven season. Who's next? Aaron Wan Kaufman, how
are you doing super producer.
Speaker 6 (01:32):
I'm good. I was just smashing a pipe and some
weird things came out, but I think it's okay to
leave it. So I just I just decided to come here.
I didn't wash my hands or anything. Probably should be good.
That's funny, that's that's normal.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
And Jackson Hall.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
And finally our last super producer, super producer, Carmen Laurent.
Speaker 4 (01:50):
How are you, Carmen.
Speaker 6 (01:52):
Oh, I'm doing great.
Speaker 7 (01:53):
I am. I'm out here doing beauty services for people
that Nita and Jackson.
Speaker 6 (01:58):
Hall and they need it.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Yeah, you're doing an important.
Speaker 6 (02:02):
Job, particularly hot cast of Apocalyptic Misfits.
Speaker 7 (02:07):
I will talk about that because someone will about their
came with them.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
The arap is like they have one in every house.
Speaker 5 (02:17):
When they give you a free house, Jackson Hall, they
also give you a diceon a rap and then an
appointment with you.
Speaker 7 (02:22):
Common right of course, yes, priorities.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
All right, first up, let's talk about you know, we
had Rosie and I had fun talking about how we
think we would have done apocalypse.
Speaker 4 (02:38):
So I'd love to hear from y'all.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Would you have survived and how would you have survived
to make it to Jackson Hole and a sanctuary and
safety amongst the loving community. That's also kind of very
hot community here at Jackson very sexy.
Speaker 4 (02:58):
Carmon. Let's start with you.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
How would you?
Speaker 4 (03:00):
How do you think you would do?
Speaker 7 (03:02):
If I'm being honest, I don't think I would have
maxed it. I would have made it to Jackson Hole.
I am known to be a very high maintenance. I'm
known to be. I don't like getting dirty. I don't
I don't I don't like I don't want to kill people.
So I probably would have locked myself up in my
apartment and just ingested as much marijuana as possible. I've
(03:27):
just tried to and.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
That's definitely the x ray vision way.
Speaker 5 (03:29):
We would have definitely had like the podcast phomacy and
kept using.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
How about.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
We should not be prescribing anything to anybody.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
Jackson Hole needs a pharmacist. Let's be real.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
If if we're talking surviving the way, like Joel kicks
off death immediately stretch of all cookies, immediate downfall sandwiches
were done, I just the flower would have killed me.
But if by some miracle, I didn't get the infected
flower and I somehow make it to civilization, I'm gonna
(04:05):
be okay because I'm great at making friends and listen,
it seems like what you need to survive the apocalypse
is the ability to develop strong friendships and then also
be able to mediate those relationships. A great emotional intelligence
is like through the roof, and this is what I'm
gonna rely on to get me through. If we could
just stick together and rely on like these like I
don't know seven people. In college, I lived in a
(04:28):
two bedroom with twelve people for like a year. You'll
learn how to like work with your fellow man under
these conditions. And no one's bringing in any money. It's
just vodka and leftover pizzas every day. I think I
could survive to make it to a Jackson situation if
that that were to align otherwise the media death you
can hear yeah.
Speaker 6 (04:48):
Better than.
Speaker 5 (04:52):
Correct.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
Also, I just want to say, like I'm realizing now maybe.
Speaker 5 (04:55):
It will be worth going through the Courtyceps apocalypse if
we will get our own houses in Jackson hole, because
in a house otherwise, So I'm like, maybe how about
you a nice sweet guy?
Speaker 6 (05:07):
I don't know, Oh, thanks, so that's so nice to you.
I think a plus for me surviving is I don't
like bread or pasta, so I would not eat it.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Mostly that would got me on day one.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
I am pasta with mushrooms and I would be out.
It would be dead.
Speaker 6 (05:24):
I also don't like mushrooms. So the negative though, yeah,
I mean like some mushrooms.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
In general, while watching this show, I like them less.
Speaker 6 (05:32):
The negative though, is my vision is horrible. We talked
about this. I have glasses, and if I were separated
from my glasses, my daily contact lenses would only last
me so long and then I would be absolutely useless. Yes,
in every way.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
Uh.
Speaker 6 (05:48):
If I were to make it to Jackson, I think
I would do well because I like small communities and
I like towns, and I grew up in the cold
in a small town. I went to college in the
cold in a small town. The only thing that would
be negative, I think is I don't like riding horses,
so if I have to do patrol, I'd be in
trouble with that.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
So we're not sending you on patrol because of the
eyes sight things. So it's totally fine. You could be
in the kitchen tasting the foods, you know, tending.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
Cows, do some painting or something.
Speaker 6 (06:18):
I also someone I mean protein and vegetables. But I see, yeah.
But one thing I do love is like whenever I
play a board game, I love trading. So I would
love to be the person who's like, oh, you collected
two zip locks full of legos and you collected sixty
(06:40):
bottles of beer boom, can we can trade these things?
So I would do well runing the trading tree, ning.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
The trading post.
Speaker 5 (06:49):
Okay, So something I mean, it's quite clear, I think
from what we were just saying, but all of us
are definitely I think more in like the group mentality
of how we would survive this. But I think something
that's very interesting about Last of Us, especially this season,
is there are a lot of kind of individual versus
group how would you survive the apocalypse? Obviously, first season
is very like low morphrom Car, but it's just Joel
(07:11):
and Ellie.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
He won't survive.
Speaker 5 (07:12):
And then second season becomes more about these communities or
tribes or roving groups. How is that working for you, Joel?
As kind of a narrative change.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
You know, it's a challenge. You guys have spoken and
we've spoken a little bit off camera off Mike about
you know, what's it like post Joel what's the show
like if Joel's not here, what are reacting to you?
Speaker 4 (07:38):
What are responding to.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
When we get to what's your first character? Irving Ian Isaac?
Isaac got there. Isaac is an incredible character who I
immediately missed and was like, well, we you had such
a great introduction, and where was he this episode? I
need more time with Isaac, and I feel like we
haven't gotten a great balance between these different factions. Not
(08:04):
enough to know that I should be scared of both,
enough to know that their conflict is one that goes
way back and has no foreseeable end at this point
in time, but not enough to be like, oh my gosh,
when these two people are fighting, I'm so scared. I
have no idea who's gonna win. I don't know who
I want to win it. I know it's very clear
(08:25):
everybody else is strangers, and so that's really a challenge,
I think. And then two, because I really like at
least storyline this season, but I do think the rise
and fall and tention of it is not as strong
as season one, and because of that, you're sort of
just feel displaced a bit in the story and that
(08:46):
you're all over the place you still care. Production design
is still good, costuming, it's still hitting, performances are still there,
but it feels like it's lacking sort of the deep
emotional heart like gut wrenching moments. I have moments where
I'm like you of fear, but not moments of oh
my god, my poor heart, like what are we going
to do? How we're going to make it through this?
(09:06):
And I think that was sort of what a lot
of people were connecting to in the Last of Us.
And maybe it's that our own reality has driven that
emotion so high that we are now like the balance
is out of whack when we're watching it on the show,
but it's it's difficult. Yeah, I'm sort of in the
middle of there.
Speaker 5 (09:21):
I guess common You are a non gameplayer, right, you
and I, You and Aaron both. So would you guys
talk a little bit about how you are enjoying this season,
because in the discord, I have to say, are non
gameplayer TV only fans. They have actually been very positive
about this season, So I would love to hear you
guys kind of talk about that a bit more.
Speaker 7 (09:44):
I will say, for myself, I feel a lot less
emotionally invested in this season than I did the first season.
I think the first season did a really good job
of getting me like emotionally invested in the characters, even
in the like uh, I mean, of course, that Bottle
episode in the first season is the one that really
was like, Oh, this show is awesome. And so I
(10:05):
think in watching the second season and who I am,
I am watching with my boyfriend who who has played
the games. So I'm watching it with a game player
who is like obsessed with the moments that are like
so like he's obsessed with the moments that are like
(10:25):
directly from the game. He's like, Oh, this is so amazing.
You know, this is directly from the game. And you know, yeah,
I'm kind of more I kind of stand more where
y'all do. With like the the song went on a
little bit long certain things, I'm starting to feel like, Okay,
that's not very realistic in a show that has kind
of always previously been very very realistic. So I am
(10:48):
struggling a little bit more with the second season as
a non game watcher. I feel like I feel like this,
you know, I feel like it's made maybe a little
bit more to appeal to the game players.
Speaker 6 (11:00):
How about Yeah, that's interesting because again, haven't played the
second game, and I did feel like season one had
these major action set pieces that felt right out of
the game, like the sniping from the tower, like there
were things that just felt like, Oh, as someone who's
played video games my entire life, this feels like a
video game scene. This season, it doesn't feel like these
(11:22):
major set pieces are necessarily like I can't imagine how
the attack on Jackson Hole would have been in the game,
if it was at all. And I'm finding myself enjoying
season two quite a bit even without any point of
reference for it. The individual verse group conversation, I think,
(11:42):
is one that I have struggled with a little bit
because I felt like season one was so beautifully focused
on individuals. Even within the groups, you find yourself having
these horribly sad stories around the guy that they meet
and his little brother, like that is just so haunting.
(12:03):
And then in this one, other than Isaac, we really
I don't feel a strong connection to any individual within
any of these new groups that's been introduced other than like, well,
like I said, Isaac, But part of that is just
because I know who plays him, and that seems like
it's going to be a really important role. So I
do think that while I love, love, love love Dina,
(12:26):
and I think like she is brings us great energy
to the show, and so I really like her introduction
to the traveling unit of you know, like at its core,
this show's a road trip no matter what, and like
we are once again with this great little Buddy Cup
road trip, except it's just these two high school girls
who are on revenge, out for revenge to kill another
(12:50):
high school girl kind of thing, like you know, it's
it's due revenge, but in Zombie Apocalypse. But so I
think there's there have been things that I know people
have had problems with based off the game, and I
think having no context whatsoever, I have just enjoyed it
more because it all just is like, oh, they're moving
the story along here. There have been a few things
that feel like, oh, they got here faster than I expected,
(13:12):
but nothing feels like, oh, they're just pushing it to
get to level six and now here we are we
have to get do this to get to level seven
kind of thing. So I've enjoyed it, and maybe that
is just because I haven't seen the video game.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Yeah, I mean, I'll say as a game player part
of and I like the show. I want to be
clear that I like the show. It's just I thought
that season one sent an incredibly high bar that season
two is not hitting for me. It's kind of like
I've seen it, you know, when scenes unfold that our beat.
Speaker 4 (13:46):
For beat like out of the game.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
It's a little bit like, well, I did this, and
I saw exactly this scene. I know exactly what it's
where it's going. And I thought that season one, again,
your mileage by vary. Some people might be like, listen,
the Last of Us two is the greatest piece of
storytelling that's ever happened.
Speaker 4 (14:06):
Don't you dare you love that thing? Fine? That's fine.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
I you know, personally, I like the I love how
season one elevated the material and and used the different
space allowed in a visual medium in a story, that
storytelling medium of television to like widen things out and
deepen certain things, and how it used your disconne disconnection
(14:34):
with the characters, you know, because you play as Joel,
you play as Elis who experience things differently, to allow
that perspective to like move around to different characters, to
NPCs like Bill that who you just encounter and never
really know anything about in the game. And so for me,
that's what takes this show up a notch and makes
it different than you know, every other post apocalyptic kind
(14:58):
of road train slash zombie apocalypse movie that's out there,
of which there are many, many, many, and it helps
it avoid you know, for me, one of the big
I tune down on The Walking Dead not just because
of the story, because I started to feel like this
is just kind of like wish fulfillment for people like
who hope that a civil war breaks out so they
(15:22):
can like kill their neighbors, you know what I mean.
Like it's just like people who want to be like, oh,
I think I could be a warlord, like in Tulsa,
like after civilization falls, Like people who just want to
cosplay in that kind of headspace. And The Last of
Us never does that. It's or at least it does
it a little more this season, but it's still like
(15:43):
this human story about life and about how important life is,
and about trying to rebuild society in some kind of better,
more just version as they're doing Jackson.
Speaker 4 (15:53):
That's the thing that I really respond to.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
So I think the show again, I can really see
how if we weren't aware of the game, you might
be enjoying it more than if you had then if
you'd played a lot hours.
Speaker 4 (16:07):
In the last of US.
Speaker 5 (16:07):
Two, I would say, I feel like you pretty much
summed up how I feel.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
Jason, like, no surprise, we always agree.
Speaker 5 (16:14):
But like I will say, I do think something that
season one was so incredible at was taking the vibe
of the game, or kind of the feeling of playing
the game and translating it while also expanding our understanding
of the world and our understanding of the world building
and our understanding.
Speaker 3 (16:32):
Of the actions of the characters.
Speaker 5 (16:35):
Like the finale. We've talked a lot about how that
kind of makes a pretty direct statement on the more
ambiguous ending of the game where you were kind of
left to feel how do you feel about Joel after
the game and the end of the first season, they
did such a great job making it this kind of
terrifying realistic like mass murder, and I think that this
(16:58):
season they're doing a little bit more direct adaptation of
beats from the game, which I do feel like was
not as much of a point in the first season,
aside from like it is an adaptation, But yeah, for me,
I have the same feeling.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
I'm also interested let's go to a quick.
Speaker 5 (17:13):
Break, but afterwards, I'm interested to talk to you guys
about like the length of this season, the way they're
doing storytelling, because I think that has impacted.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
A Yeah, let's talk about so only seven episodes for
the last of US season two. It feels short. I
mean season one was nine that felt short as well.
If you know, to me, anything less than ten feels
like not a full season of TV, especially if it's
(17:59):
an hour our drama. How do y'all feel about seven
episodes and how do you feel about the pacing thus far?
Like are you looking ahead and thinking, oh, man, I
wonder how they can land this thing in three more episodes? Joelle,
let's start with you.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
Yeah. Absolutely, I as a little insider baseball, but I've
known for a while that episode six is our standalone
flashback episode. The end of episode five sort of tips
you off to where we're going there, and I feel
like it's hard right because Okay, in this episode, in
episode five, we get the stalkers and one of the
(18:45):
genuinely such a horrifying scene, which brought me back to
episode one with the first encounterment soccer, which is was
the highlight of the season so far for me, Like
these horror element moments that we're getting into our spookier
than they previously, or there's something terribly about a horride
of zombies you they oh gosh, there's so many of
them that's really challenging, versus a predator situation where you're like, oh,
(19:09):
I'm being hunted now, flipping the script in that way,
and then sort of pairing that with this fear of
losing people, or or really more an examination of what
is it to let go? Like how does that happen
when it's it quote successful and what does it cost
or what are the sacrifices being made? Is intriguing, and
(19:31):
yet I feel they haven't gone very far with it.
I still feel like we're at the introduction of it,
you know, at the introduction of these thoughts, and so
therefore I'm kind of I just I yes, I don't
love the pacing of the show. It's been a struggle
to get through in that I feel like I'm always
(19:51):
looking for more. But that being said, I've never wanted
to not watch the series. I'm like intrigued and invested
in the like the next hap ings. I need to know.
The Ellie and Gina thing is so it's terrifying to
me because I'm like, when is the explosion going to happen?
At some point Ellie has to turn into Dina and
be like you, part of this is your fault, Like
(20:11):
you messed up. Like I just feel like there must
be a resentment somewhere and we're not quite getting there.
Maybe we're getting it a little bit with they're not
boyfriend slash best friend kind of situation jumping back into
the picture, but their emotional journey has been one of
like we're besties and we understand each other and we're
moving forward. And every time Ellie runs into a situation
(20:33):
where you should not be doing this, Dina doesn't. She's like,
I'm with you. I have one hundreds understand you. And
so therefore that had that really drove these and one
is not here.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
That's a That's a great point, Joelle, because I think
that is I'm realizing something I've been reacting to too
is I think Dina is an incredible character and I
just love four of her and I think part of
of what I feel like I'm missing is that is
that complexity that tension. We just found out or she
just found out that Ellie has been lying to her
about a thing the whole time they've known each other,
(21:08):
and that seems to be not a problem at all.
Where is that tension and will it ever emerge?
Speaker 4 (21:17):
I think is a good question.
Speaker 5 (21:19):
I also think that they The reason I think it
feels tangible that we're missing it is because they touch
on it when Ellie and Dina come back together and
Dina kind of reveals what she learned and who killed Joel,
and there is a moment where you kind of get
like Ellie is the Joel now and Dina is the
(21:39):
kind of young.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
Like, let's talk about it.
Speaker 5 (21:42):
But I feel like they haven't kept up that dynamic,
which I would have liked to see go a little
bit longer.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
Yeah, it's tricky too because it's almost become Dina's mission.
Ellie would have would have gotten like five hundred yards
outside of Jackson before she got mercury, had no food,
in bad shoes and like no mass bullets, you know,
and no horse, like she would have just been walking.
So to see Dina take over to this level has
(22:09):
been really fun. But to your point, I do wish
there was more to that relationship than just Dina activating
this mission in all the ways that that Ellie.
Speaker 5 (22:20):
Can't Aaron without knowing kind of where it's going In
the same way, do you feel does it us being
five episodes in, does it feel like it's going to
be hard for them to wrap up this season in
two episodes?
Speaker 3 (22:30):
Or do is it just feel like you're excited to
see whatever comes next.
Speaker 6 (22:34):
I think I'm just excited to see what comes next
because I know there's gonna be another season and I
don't logically know where. I assume this one is going
to end with some confrontation between Ellie and Abby, and
I know, gee, this isn't a spoiler, but I know
that Abby is a playable character in the second game,
(22:54):
and so that is fascinating to me, like we did
have They did that so well, I thought in episode two,
and you talk about this in the recap, where we
follow Abby for a large part of that episode, and
we see her in danger running from the zombies, and
we feel for her and we sympathize with her until
all of a sudden she runs into Jol and it's like, oh,
wait a minute, no, this is She's out for revenge too,
(23:15):
and she's about to do something to one of our
main characters. So I don't doubt that they can make
us feel for Abby again and make that a compelling storyline. Truly,
I don't know what happens when the two of them meet,
so that is very fascinating to me. I cannot wait
for that. And I think this show has done a
really good job of every time there is an episode
(23:37):
or a long chunk of time where I feel like
stuff's not really happening, then all of a sudden we
get some major thing. And that is what I think
what Joelle is talking about, where like maybe the pacing
is off, but every other episode we get a huge
piece of candy that we love and so I, oh, sorry,
(23:57):
go ahead, no, no, no, no, yeah. So I'm really enjoying
that part of it.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
I wanted to ask you, Carmen and Aaron as non
game players, because I think one of the critiques I've
seen from the game centric audience who are a little
disappointed in this show is like, why did they nerf
Ellie this much? So by the time you're at this
point in the story in the game as Ellie, you've
(24:23):
probably killed I don't know, thousand bags, like not a thousand,
but like fifty maybe fifty people, maybe maybe thirty.
Speaker 3 (24:31):
Including season one, I mean game one.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
I think, well, just on a mission, just on it,
just on the mission, just going to Seattle, leaving Jackson,
maybe you've killed thirty forty people or something. To me,
to put that on the screen is to make this
show a completely different show than it was established as
it season. Now you're watching John Wick or something, right,
that's greazy, right, but like.
Speaker 4 (24:54):
How do you so, how would you respond to that?
Speaker 2 (24:59):
Seeing it a game accurate Ellie light out from Jackson
with another nineteen year old and then like kill I
don't know, like twenty WLF members on the trot after
they get caught up in the in the former news
offices or whatever.
Speaker 7 (25:18):
I mean personally, that wouldn't work for me in terms
of like, okay, realistic storytelling. I would just be like, Okay,
this is absolutely ridiculous, you know. And so obviously I
think what maybe would I think, what maybe would people
would respond better to is if maybe the writing of
(25:39):
Ellie and you guys have talked about this many times,
like this has been brought up, but maybe if the
writing of Ellie and Dina was just a little bit
more in depth and a little bit more like I
feel like they could they could be providing, as you said,
they could level it up for the for the show
by adding like an additional emotional layer to Ellien, you
(26:00):
know that we already haven't gotten in the video game.
So I just don't think making it more like the
video game in that sense is going to be a
realistic crout for.
Speaker 5 (26:09):
Yeah, about the logic of the show and what the
show establishes in the first season and the opening episodes
of this season, and I just don't think there's any
way that them going out there and like just like
lighting everyone up and like, I.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
Feel like she's pick an ass though absolutely she keeps surviving.
Speaker 5 (26:28):
I also think something interesting is like they kind of
replaced her like ability to kill now with her ability
to survive. She is getting strategy, and I think that
is interesting. How, Aaron, how would that kind of tone
shift work for you?
Speaker 6 (26:47):
Yeah, I think Carmen said a really appropriate thing. Karmen
said level up, And like in video games, we are
trained to watch our main character or our playable character
level up as a go through harder and harder challenges
and fight harder and harder enemies, and therefore you trust
that they can take on the boss or the huge
(27:08):
situation when that happens. And that doesn't really happen in
screen because every superhero movie has one moment when the
hero realizes their power and powers up or reaches their
full potential. They don't have the time to do that
six times and like change your class and multi class
over here and learn a new skill. That's that's a
video game thing. So I totally get that they would
(27:31):
not be able to do that in the show. I
don't know how you would write it differently to be
maybe more successful than it is now.
Speaker 5 (27:36):
But I think the connection of like, is somebody bad
ass because they've killed a bunch of people, Maybe that's
something in the American consciousness we should like consider anyway.
So I think that's kind of a cool thing that
they're not going that route, you know, to show that.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
I mean, she sort of just kills them with a pipe.
Speaker 7 (27:55):
As we said, want to murder, staffing and survival. That
is a strategy, just as you know, going guns of
blazing as a strategy. So it's like she's you. I
would think maybe if they had drawn more comparisons to
how and they have done this a little bit, but
if they had emphasized it more, if they had emphasized
more about how Ellie is kind of becoming more like Joel.
I think they kind of leaned into that a little
(28:16):
bit more. It might help to.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
Let's do a quick ranking of zombified enemies. Where do
you puts infected in terms of like the cannon of
all times zombies or undead monsters, so like, you know,
the Chatari, the White Walkers, the Walking Dead, zombies, et cetera.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
Where do you put Cordy steps infected? Okay, I will
say this first. The spore situation of all elevate you
this episode, I'm like, probably just a little bit below
White Walkers. You know, they're cool, the design element is nice,
(29:07):
and they're creepy. The fact that they can sense you
from far away is a really cool feature. Not all
zombies have. You know, you have to be quiet usually,
but this one is like, if you touch me in
a forest one hundred miles away, I know you're there
and I'll send them to you. That's fucking crazy, but
now I will send me keep you alive. To the
point where I was like, are they conscious. This is
(29:30):
so scary.
Speaker 5 (29:30):
I'm saying, like, if you're ranking them like fear wise,
I think for me, this is the scariest version because
especially recently biased with episode five, but that notion of
not just how terrifying a stalker or a bloater or
any of the different versions of the Cordycepts zombies that
we get, but just also like the horror of being infected,
(29:54):
of transforming. There's quite a cosmic horror element to the
kind of like you are part of the hive mind,
like you are being built into the wall and the
fungus is growing on you. Like that is scarier to
me than the white Walker. Like the white Walker is
gonna just come up to me and be like, ohh
bit to stab you because I'm taking over the Seven Kingdoms.
Speaker 3 (30:13):
It's like a famous English actor.
Speaker 5 (30:14):
I'm like, okay, but I think I'm scared of a
running zombie, like a twenty eight Days the kind of
running zombie.
Speaker 3 (30:20):
But that's like secondary to me.
Speaker 5 (30:22):
I think these are some of, if not the most
horrific zombies we've seen common Europeic horred.
Speaker 3 (30:27):
So when your and you.
Speaker 7 (30:30):
Gave me a perfect you gave me a perfect segue too,
because I literally I just watched twenty eight days later
this weekend, and I think it might be a recency bias.
But here is my ranking. I've got to say it's
got to be the rage virus is then every one
most scary thing to be. I agree that that is
so scary because first movie where they're fast zombies and
(30:52):
they're also acknowledging the fact that the virus has transmitted
through blood. Second would be I would definitely say the
Cordyceps zombies. They're terrifying. I like that they are varied.
There's like different types that they can manifest as, and
(31:12):
so I would be scared of a stalker. I don't
think I would be as scared of like just one
of like the regular droning ones, you know what I mean. Okay,
you could take a clicker, Yeah, I could take a clicker.
Speaker 4 (31:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (31:25):
A third third in the ranking for me would be
And this one's controversial because they're kind of vampires and zombies,
but the strain I.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
Have, Oh that's so scary.
Speaker 5 (31:40):
You're not a horror guy, So are these just like
the scariest zombies you've ever seen?
Speaker 6 (31:44):
Or have you?
Speaker 3 (31:45):
Do you have other zombie knowledge.
Speaker 6 (31:46):
I think it's it's a shame we're not putting the
White Walkers first because they have the Syrian so you
can have as many landed zombies as you want.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
You have they done, they do have an ace dragon.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (31:58):
Second, I would say would be infect and I think
third would be World War Z where they like climb
on to themselves to the walls. That's terrifying to me.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
I have to clue because yeah, that's true. Yeah, that's
they figured that out. Okay, so let me see, let
me do my ranking would be I actually think Cordy
Steps might be the scariest because of the spoor thing
like the blood, the the the rage infected theoretically because
(32:29):
it moves. The infection happens like within thirty seconds of
like a blood to blood event. I think theoretically like
it could burn out quicker, like there's a very little
chance of oh my god, this guy I'm in the
room with is infected, like you would know right away,
so that you're cutting off those kind of events where
(32:50):
somebody who's like mildly infected develops the infection over the
course of like a day, and in that time infects
everybody in your in your town or five village or whatever.
So I think the spores make it scarier. I also
think that the twenty eight the Rage zombies, it's like
they're just like regular people who are driven completely insane
(33:15):
by this virus. So when winter comes, when the seasons change,
like they'll just die.
Speaker 3 (33:24):
Yeah, just die, They'll.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
Just die out, Just let die, you know.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
Whereas as we've yeah, as we've seen with the Cordy Steps,
they just they have other kind of survival strategies and
then the big boss ones just keep going. And so
I think I would put I think I would put
Courty SEPs.
Speaker 4 (33:41):
At the top, ahead of Rage, ahead of.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
World War Ze movie version, and certainly ahead of all
of the kind of shambling the Night of the Living Dead,
Day of the Dead, Dawn of the Dead style shambling hordes,
which are like, honestly, who cares.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
It's not like you could.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
Take you walk away from I mean a machine gun.
And we've seen the Zach Snider.
Speaker 3 (34:10):
Then surprisingly good.
Speaker 5 (34:12):
But yeah, Aaron and Jason, just before we go to
another ad break, as the musicians, I need you guys
to talk about at lea is guitar.
Speaker 6 (34:21):
What's going on.
Speaker 3 (34:22):
With the guitar playing. Is Bella playing the guitar?
Speaker 6 (34:24):
Aaron, your thoughts, Okay, so Bella is playing a guitar.
Bella is not playing the guitar part that is in
the recording. And I went back and rewatched the performance.
Bella is actually playing, I believe, the same chords. But
it is a very fingerpicked song where there is inside baseball,
there's use of fingers as well as thumb. Bella is
(34:47):
only using thumb to basically strum out the root note
in the five of each chord. She's changing chords at
the right time, and you know, I believe that they're
playing the structure of the song correctly and they just
had to learn it that way and just couldn't do
it live on screen. I don't know if they're the
ones playing it in the recording or not. Uh, they're
(35:08):
not playing that part of the guitar.
Speaker 3 (35:11):
This is when come Thanks very Vision for Yeah musical, No.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
This is I found this controversy somewhat weird, I guess
based around the fact that Mason is like, oh no,
that's them, that's them playing it. But again, I think,
you know, I think that's kind of not it's clearly
not all the way accurate, because this is I don't
think they did that live on set. I think this
(35:38):
studio record. They recorded it in a studio, right, and
then eighty yard it on top of the live performance
on the set, which is totally fine. But the way
that payment, I.
Speaker 4 (35:52):
Think is phrased, leads.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
You to believe that, like, yeah, on the day we
rolled camera and they just they just went and we
just taped it and we took like the best version
of like that didn't happen.
Speaker 4 (36:04):
It recurs in the studio.
Speaker 5 (36:05):
Be fad to ask Bella to do that if that's
not something they're already doing.
Speaker 3 (36:09):
And Bella did a great job, did a great job.
But I'm glad that the.
Speaker 5 (36:13):
Guitar lovers and the musicians were able to establish that
as it has been a conversation piece.
Speaker 3 (36:19):
Let's go to a message from our sponsors and we'll
be read. How about our back.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
Finally, Okay, Pedro Pascal, there's been a he left us
as the gailers expected to leave us.
Speaker 5 (36:50):
Non gamers did not expect, as the messages, the messages
in my WhatsApp told me.
Speaker 3 (36:55):
When everyone I knew watched.
Speaker 2 (36:56):
It was a nine ned stark death kind of impact
for this show for the non game players. How do
you think the show's going without him thus far? Joelle,
Let's start with you.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
Well, I think that there was a stronger understanding of
who that character was, what made him interesting, and because
you start with such a singular focus. Joel's world was
his daughter. His daughter was taken, the whole world burned,
(37:33):
but he's still not over the initial loss of his daughter.
Here comes another person who can sort of fill that void.
He will do anything to protect her. That is a
very straightforward line, you understand fully from the top, Like
what's going on where I'm at with Ellie is like
Ellie survived a bunch of loss, her worst fear came true,
(37:55):
and now she's lost, which is interesting, But it's challenging
to connect to that when the feeling of that loss
feels very distant. And by this I mean yes, she's like, Okay,
(38:16):
I'm going to go avenge my father. I will stop
at nothing great. Do you push other people away when
you do that? Typically that's the thing that happens when
you become singularly focused. You're not as focused on the
health of everybody else. Typically that has an alienating effect.
I think too. When you're keeping a lot of secrets,
(38:36):
when they start to be revealed, there's like a vulnerability
of exposure that causes people to do a whole slew
of different types of things depending on who they are
and where they're at. But we're not really seeing like
you feel unraveled if your job has been to protect
these secrets and now they're out, and I just feel
like we're not. I don't feel Ellie's sliding. I feel like, oh,
(38:57):
Elia's got a girlfriend, now, that's awesome. They seem to
really like each other and mission is going according to plan.
Mostly I'm a side but thank god he was here.
He swooped right in save them. That was great. Yeah,
And because of that, it's sort of you're just like, well,
I'm lost now and I don't have a good villain
(39:17):
to fall back on, which is typically really helpful. It's
not something the show has needed in the past. But
I just say, if you're gonna introduce Jeffrey Wright and
he's gonna be that great, maybe he's the focus for
a little bit, Like maybe he's the counterweight too. I
think a strong counterweight to what Ellie is doing consistently
might have also been a great point for the show
to pivot off of. So I think we are feeling
(39:40):
the absence of Joel. That being said, I am invested
in the story of Ellie, and I think and with
the understanding that I also really liked about the show
is that it feels like the show has always been
the last of us, and the US was vital because
we're constantly spinning off into these other stories and that
had become so interesting. And what I'm thinking about now
(40:02):
is those stories are wrapped up really quickly, so you
understand the the importance and what the US you were
visiting was trying to tell you about the world, because
you're getting a getting middle end really quick. And right now,
I don't know what's going on with Isaac. I saw
him have a term, but I don't know where it's going,
right And so yeah, I think without those like more
(40:23):
vignetted sort of feeling for the pacing, and without Joel
to sort of ground you in, Oh my God, like
he's like we lived his biggest fear with him, we
lived Ellie's too, But I don't know something about like
where it's positioned in the show, Like that's where we start.
We see the before and after very clearly. It's it's
(40:44):
just the feels a little less meaningful in its direction
than when we had Joel.
Speaker 5 (40:51):
I would also say it's harder, I think, for them
to make it as obviously emotionally stark because Ellie now
has the community of Jackson Hall.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
That's not the same.
Speaker 5 (41:01):
But I do think that it feels a little less
urgent in the way that they've presented.
Speaker 1 (41:06):
Right because she chose to leave a safe space when
Joel had no safe space to return to. Yeah, that's
a great point. Rosie also as well, I will.
Speaker 5 (41:14):
Say my personal feeling about this. We talked about it
a lot, but in listening to our conversation talk to us,
I also do think that ironically, a little more of
the way that the game told the story, in that
we were in Abby's perspective for a longer time, I
think that is missing from this episode.
Speaker 1 (41:31):
The counter.
Speaker 3 (41:34):
I want to know about.
Speaker 5 (41:35):
I think an opening you could have had an Abbey
Bottle episode. You could have had something like that, and
I think it would have made it less stark when
we lost Pedro.
Speaker 3 (41:42):
But also I just want to say, Pedro Pascal is like.
Speaker 5 (41:44):
A fucking generational talent and I do also think this
was always going to be an issue for the show.
And it's not that Bella isn't Isabella McCart isn't, because
they are both going to do incredible things and already
are doing incredible things. But it's very hard when, like
Carmen said, the show had deep understanding of who Joel was,
and it doesn't necessarily seem to have it for some
(42:05):
of the other characters.
Speaker 2 (42:06):
In the same way, I want to pivot off something
you said, Joel, which I think is really great.
Speaker 4 (42:12):
It is that this show is called.
Speaker 2 (42:13):
The Last of Us, and it's I think the way
that I perceive that for shows like this, for post
apocalyptic shows, is.
Speaker 4 (42:26):
Are our characters going.
Speaker 2 (42:28):
To like give into the primal violence, the nihilism and
have this idea that, well, this is the way the
world is now. You're allowed to kill people and murder
people and take their stuff, and you know, the the
level by which you could accelerate to like fatal violence
(42:48):
is like actually pretty low and that makes sense in
this world. Or are you going to try to And
this is what I feel like the Last of Us
is what makes it so good, is are you going
to try to maintain some of the things that were
actually good about the world that is now gone, like
about empathy, about valuing people's lives, about like not killing
(43:11):
people just because you disagree with them, you know, because
you think they might pose.
Speaker 4 (43:15):
A threat to you.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
And it's that that, I feel like elevates this show
and what I feel like. And even though I never
really thought about it before, I've always kind of perceived
The Last of Us as meaning that, like, how do
we hold on to this little island of community, of
of you know, equality in a world that has completely fallen.
(43:41):
How do we not become whatever they're doing in Seattle
on either side?
Speaker 3 (43:46):
You know?
Speaker 4 (43:47):
How do we not do that? And when the show
holds that part of it.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
Up, I think it's I think it's exceptional, and I
think I'm glad you brought that up to all, because
it's not. It's I hadn't really thought about it in
those terms before.
Speaker 1 (44:03):
I had to find a friend a lot about whether
a long long time belonged in the Sties or not.
They're adamant that it didn't, and I was like, this
show is called The Last of Us. We need to
see the us who were the who were detective? What
are we saving It's just like when I'm watching Star
Wars back in the day when I was like, we're
always up here with the high people, we're with low people,
and now we have and or stay with low people.
That's where the stories are good. What did you think,
(44:23):
Carman about, like just where the show is good? Do
you feel like the direction of it? Do you feel
like you know where it's going? Are you good with
where it's at?
Speaker 7 (44:35):
I will say this season, I'm having hope that, you know,
the third season will kind of pick up its pace
again and kind of figure out some of these kinks,
because for me, this second season it feels like a
little bit of like an in between, kind of truncated.
Speaker 1 (44:51):
Yeah, one and a half almost yeaheah, Like I.
Speaker 7 (44:54):
Don't I don't know if this is like its own
season in the same way that season one was. So
I'm still kind of holding out for season three and
hoping that they'll kind of maybe bring in some female writers,
maybe bring in some people to like, you know, tell
these more emotional stories and give us more episodes. Even so,
I honestly like, as you said, Joelle, the most interesting
(45:17):
thing for me was like, Oh, I'm really I want
to know more about Isaac. I want to know more
more about Abby. Yeah, you, Pascal is hot and I
love him. Ye miss he is dead now, you know.
So give me more, Isaac, Give me more, Abby, give
me and I and I really am hoping that they
can do something in these last couple of episodes that
will just kind of, uh, bring it home.
Speaker 5 (45:38):
For me, kind of tying all of that together with
the Last of Us and what that means, and kind
of I do think you guys will touch on something
that for me is like the world building in the
first season is so fantastic and it is from meeting
those different communities, and I feel like that has not
been established in the same way for the Scars for
(45:58):
the WLF, and I know the world is expanding, but
I do think for me that would have made this
season stronger so far if we'd have had a little
bit more insight into who these people were, what their
view of the world is, why they behave the way
they do. That is what makes the Last of Us interesting,
(46:18):
and that's what makes great TV storytelling interesting.
Speaker 1 (46:21):
If you take that WLF where the Seraphytes are executing
the WLF member through episode five, like when you get
to that point in the video game. That's almost the
it's the introduction for the Seraphytes, right, Yeah, like that's
pretty much the beginning.
Speaker 3 (46:37):
We never got that whole thing with them, and.
Speaker 1 (46:39):
So that element of horror works. But since we've already
been introduced to the fact that they disn't vowel people
with many more bodies and a vere horse, it doesn't hit.
And because I don't know that w Left member or
those serophytes, I don't have an emotional investment in what
they're doing, so they don't like each other, right, And
so all that scene really does then is it's like, oh,
there's not anywhere safe, like and we know the serah
(47:01):
fights are on the park, which is not great at
the end of episode five for us to be at
that place in storytelling, so that I think, I think
just almost like that sort of drag it. But again,
there are so many great moments throughout the series. It's
still it's still living in like B plus territory for
me of like, this is still a fun and engaging space.
Speaker 4 (47:19):
No, it's true, Yeah, I'm solidly B plus as well. Yeah,
it was just.
Speaker 1 (47:25):
Yes, and we're worried about the child We're like, please,
they could do a plus work what's happening.
Speaker 5 (47:32):
One of my many nieces and nephews is really into
rating things at the moment and very into like S
rate you know.
Speaker 3 (47:40):
But I think for a while it was I think
the first season.
Speaker 5 (47:44):
Was s T I forget, which is so rare, and
I think that's the only reason we're looking at it
this way is because there's a little bit of.
Speaker 3 (47:53):
Something.
Speaker 5 (47:54):
I think it's the truncated nature of the season, the pacing.
It kind of takes me out of the logic of
the show. Where is that first season is legit just
you are on the journey the whole way, and you.
Speaker 7 (48:04):
Even open up with world building in the first season
just with that, like that kind of like interview section
where they're talking about the courty steps and stuff, and
just if they would zoom out a little bit, I
think too.
Speaker 1 (48:16):
That could I sort of missed those moments, to miss
that happening so far in between different time periods, and like,
how do people receive information that seems far out? How
did you know the scientists initial reaction to these things?
And because we're not jumping either into other territories, even
like we had that weird stop in season one with
the indigenous couple where they were like rob them for
(48:38):
some stuff, and like that was just such an interesting
peak into a life and then we were gone and
people survived.
Speaker 2 (48:45):
Yeah, I will say that I think that there is
I understand that this show cannot be three hours an episode,
that I do feel as if those little you know,
those little download moments, there are exposition starters, for sure,
but I think you could drop those in through the
perspective of Gail or Maria or these other characters. Where
(49:12):
was she when this broke out? What was she doing?
Speaker 1 (49:15):
Like?
Speaker 2 (49:15):
What is what are her memories of the first critical
few days of this crisis? I think those things could
both widen the world and deep in our connection to
the new characters, of the characters who've just been introduced
this season. Yeah, absolutely, even like someone like Dina who
(49:35):
was obviously very young, but like, what are her actual
memories of this?
Speaker 5 (49:40):
I know, what does she remember just outside of maybe
like just telling Ellie like this happened. It was bad,
you know, Like we got to see that a little
bit more in season one, And I do think Gail
would have been a great kind of launchpad for that.
I love that edition of that character. I also would
love to know more about Maria because I thought she
was one of the most interesting.
Speaker 4 (50:00):
And you have in season one.
Speaker 7 (50:04):
Can I say something too that I think has been
kind of affecting me This season is like the first
season is really about like survival and like finding you know,
your people that you can survive with, and this season
has taken a notable turn to being about like revenge
and I don't know but about y'all, but it feels
so dumb, Like when you look at like Jackson Hall
(50:27):
was great, why the hell are we going out to Ken,
I would just be like that sucks. She killed my
like dad figure, But I am not leaving Jackson Hall.
Speaker 5 (50:36):
I also so that was a little critique of from
people who hadn't played the game who were like, this
is like a silly revenge plot line, blah blah blah,
and I was thinking, like, you don't understand, But now
I'm kind of like, also, like, you know what, if
I was like told me, I would have tied Ellie up,
like you're staying in the house and listen to this.
Speaker 3 (50:53):
And down over it for a bit, Babe, I was
like leaving.
Speaker 2 (50:56):
That revenge I love and I do think I love revenge.
It's it's one of the most elemental plot devices we have, right,
you know, And I think that, uh yeah, I'm a
little disappointed in Jacksonville for not putting other options besides
sixteen riders or we don't do anything out there, right, Like,
(51:18):
I think there were things in between that said I will,
you know, I do think that the application of revenge
and the way that it's both taken over Ellie's life
and also doesn't seem to like it's weird that she's
less angry.
Speaker 4 (51:38):
Don't you think she.
Speaker 2 (51:41):
Was so much more angry when Joel was around, and
now she's been consumed by this revenge mission.
Speaker 1 (51:50):
And doesn't she's having fun and she's having a great
time and the show is sort of like not true,
not diagnosing her with anything, But there do seem to
be two sides of her, right Like there is when
she gets into these moments of fully in revenge where
she can enact this violence, there's a switch and as
(52:11):
the switch we saw in season one, which I genuinely loved,
like it was a great flip, I think by not
again exploring to me secrets are such a huge part
of like young women's lives, and I think, yeah, particularly
in spaces where that are like male dominated and it's
(52:31):
the post apocalypse would be And I just think if
you had all of this rage and you were falling
in love with a person, as person was like I
love you back, you would not want them to see
the side of you because it's terrifying and people know
it's quote wrong and therefore like I just don't, which
goes back to the like there's not a lot of
tension between Dina and Ellie. I just feel like we're
(52:53):
seeing two very different sides of her, but there's no
attempt to like showcase how she's hiding or what I say.
Speaker 5 (53:00):
I think that there's another kind of lack of conflict
or friction where there could be something really interesting in
Ellie trying to hide that from herself. And I have found, like,
I know, we spoke about this on the recap, so
you can go and listen to me talk about it
more that I'm a big tatty Gabrielle fan. So I
didn't love like the way that they portrayed Nora's end.
I just I couldn't really root for Ellie doing that.
Speaker 3 (53:20):
But also I think I think there's optics issues when
when you're cast like that, but also I also think
that there is that flit.
Speaker 5 (53:30):
It was just to me, it did still feel like
it came out of nowhere in this context because of
that lack of friction, because of that kind of lack
of they're having a great time and then suddenly they're
downstairs and they're in the spores and she's just gonna
beat her to death with a pipe.
Speaker 3 (53:44):
Just leave her there. She's gonna die, She's not.
Speaker 2 (53:47):
I just think that there is there there's a binariness
with Ellie's character where she's completely good in the context
that we are comfortable with her being completely good in
with her with Dina, with her on the mission when
she's not in the presence of people she needs to kill,
(54:08):
and that when she kills like she killed Nora, she
goes to the dark side. But we don't ever feel
the presence of that in the rest of her character,
And I think there's a kind of unwillingness to complicate
her in that way that doesn't exist for other like,
(54:30):
for instance, Abby, it's important that we know her motivations.
We could easily see her as just the villain we
have to kill her. She must be stopped. We have
to take revenge for this. But despite the fact that
we haven't gone that deeply with her, we already understand
like her motive. This is her father that was murdered.
She found his body like she loved him, like the
way that Ellie loved Joel, and we've established that. But
(54:53):
we've also seen the way she acted to her wolves
that she forced basically to go on this five year
mission of revenge to find this person, and the way
she reacted to them, like almost with like a iron
hand of like shut up and fucking do what I
say to inject her with that fucking drug. Yes, I said,
we weren't gonna hurt people.
Speaker 4 (55:13):
Now we are. What what the fuck are you gonna
do about it?
Speaker 1 (55:16):
With Ellie?
Speaker 4 (55:18):
We don't want that to happen.
Speaker 2 (55:19):
We there's almost an allergicness to feeling as if Ellie
and she is I'm not saying she's forcing Dina to
do this, but I'm saying a person in their rational
mind would be like, you're pregnant.
Speaker 1 (55:32):
That's it.
Speaker 3 (55:33):
We're going on.
Speaker 1 (55:37):
The pregnancy. That's an army. Yeah, two people without weapons.
This is crazy. We're going to die, Yes, but.
Speaker 2 (55:47):
To make that decision right is kind of that Abbey
like singular focused, almost obsessive, like crazed, monomaniacal, like I
need this bloodlust must be slaked. But there's none of
that because it is just like.
Speaker 6 (56:09):
So that I love it.
Speaker 2 (56:10):
I love Ellie too, and I love that she's our
hero and I'm going to follow her to the end
of this story. But it does feel a little less complicated.
Speaker 1 (56:19):
Yeah, and then we got those complications with Joel too,
like when we think like he could never tell what's
her face that he was in love with her, even
though clearly they had had this very long relationship where
they had a level of dedication to one another. Yeah,
even when he's meeting Bill and Frank, like there's a
difficulty in connecting, like he's only really connecting with them
over protect Yes, got that we have the guns, we
(56:42):
need the gates perfect. I think with Ellie we get
just it's just too little. I think we knew more
about Jackson and saw more people's interactions and how Ellie
left them feeling that we might have a clear picture
of who she is because right now, like when we
get in top of like oh, you're part of this
community now. But also these guys are willing to like
(57:02):
train with her and are pulling their punches because they
care enough about her to like do real damage. Like
it's just not a full picture of her as a person.
And I think too, it's been hard, and I've heard
that people see, like it's hard to root for Ellie
this season, And here's what I'm really bumping against and
where I feel like the show was, like, Joel's absolutely wrong.
(57:23):
He killed a doctor in the apocalypse. You're killing health
workers in an apocalypse. I don't know what There's a
more egregious crime at this point in time than killing
somebody who heals Like that is insane to do, and
Joel did it in a moment of like she's literally
gonna die. She's right there and she's going to die.
Speaker 3 (57:46):
What would you?
Speaker 1 (57:47):
And you still find the violence abhorrent and you're still
like this is absolutely wrong, But there is a certain
level of like I sort of understand what's happening here.
Where's Ellie. He's been passed. You literally had to heal
from a whole injury. You're out here with somebody who's
extremely vulnerable, Andrew were killing doctors, like, what are we doing?
It's again, it's just feeling a little lost. I'm hoping
(58:09):
they can land the plane, but it's like, really, do
enjoy this show?
Speaker 5 (58:12):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (58:12):
Two episodes left, so we're gonna find out well.
Speaker 2 (58:16):
Coming up on x ray Vision, we have our recaps
of the final three episodes of and Or. Tomorrow Friday,
we'll be back with our round table. And this Saturday,
we're serving up some hot news with a special featurette
on the Apple TV Plus series Murder Bots. Coming up
next more Star Wars end Mission Impossible. Folks.
Speaker 4 (58:34):
That's it for this episode. Thanks for listening.
Speaker 2 (58:36):
By x ray Vision is hosted by Jason steps Young
and Rosie Night and is a production of iHeart Podcast.
Speaker 5 (58:44):
Our executive producers are Joe Alminique and Aaron Kolefman.
Speaker 4 (58:48):
Our supervising producer is Abu Safar.
Speaker 5 (58:50):
Our producers are Common Laurent Dean Jonathan and Bay Wag.
Speaker 2 (58:54):
A theme song is by Brian Vasquez, with alternate theme
songs by Aaron Kaufman.
Speaker 5 (58:58):
Special thanks to sol Ubin, Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman and
Heidi Are Discord moderator
Speaker 6 (59:07):
M
Worry.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
Today's episode contains spoilers for the Last of Us Season two,
episodes one through five.
Speaker 3 (00:06):
You word.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Hello, My name is Jason Seton and I'm Rosday Night
and welcome back to text revision of the podcast where we
dive deep bi dear favorite shows, movies, comics and pop
culture comedy.
Speaker 4 (00:32):
You from by our podcast or Where Were You?
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Three episodes a week every Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday plus Blustners
plus Us.
Speaker 5 (00:40):
In today's episode, we are going to that very strange,
overly well built Yes I know it existed before. Thank you,
Discord Jackson Holetown Council meeting for a round table where
we will be calling in our very own Last of
Us Council to talk episodes one through five.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Let's open this meeting of the Jackson Hole X Ray
Vision Council by introducing the council members. First up, Superducer,
First up, our first super producer, Joel Monique, Joel, how
are you yo?
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Very excited to talk about this very up and down
season of the Last of Us. We got some high highs,
some weird loads, and some interesting changes.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
It's an uneven season. Who's next? Aaron Wan Kaufman, how
are you doing super producer.
Speaker 6 (01:32):
I'm good. I was just smashing a pipe and some
weird things came out, but I think it's okay to
leave it. So I just I just decided to come here.
I didn't wash my hands or anything. Probably should be good.
That's funny, that's that's normal.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
And Jackson Hall.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
And finally our last super producer, super producer, Carmen Laurent.
Speaker 4 (01:50):
How are you, Carmen.
Speaker 6 (01:52):
Oh, I'm doing great.
Speaker 7 (01:53):
I am. I'm out here doing beauty services for people
that Nita and Jackson.
Speaker 6 (01:58):
Hall and they need it.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Yeah, you're doing an important.
Speaker 6 (02:02):
Job, particularly hot cast of Apocalyptic Misfits.
Speaker 7 (02:07):
I will talk about that because someone will about their
came with them.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
The arap is like they have one in every house.
Speaker 5 (02:17):
When they give you a free house, Jackson Hall, they
also give you a diceon a rap and then an
appointment with you.
Speaker 7 (02:22):
Common right of course, yes, priorities.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
All right, first up, let's talk about you know, we
had Rosie and I had fun talking about how we
think we would have done apocalypse.
Speaker 4 (02:38):
So I'd love to hear from y'all.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Would you have survived and how would you have survived
to make it to Jackson Hole and a sanctuary and
safety amongst the loving community. That's also kind of very
hot community here at Jackson very sexy.
Speaker 4 (02:58):
Carmon. Let's start with you.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
How would you?
Speaker 4 (03:00):
How do you think you would do?
Speaker 7 (03:02):
If I'm being honest, I don't think I would have
maxed it. I would have made it to Jackson Hole.
I am known to be a very high maintenance. I'm
known to be. I don't like getting dirty. I don't
I don't I don't like I don't want to kill people.
So I probably would have locked myself up in my
apartment and just ingested as much marijuana as possible. I've
(03:27):
just tried to and.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
That's definitely the x ray vision way.
Speaker 5 (03:29):
We would have definitely had like the podcast phomacy and
kept using.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
How about.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
We should not be prescribing anything to anybody.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
Jackson Hole needs a pharmacist. Let's be real.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
If if we're talking surviving the way, like Joel kicks
off death immediately stretch of all cookies, immediate downfall sandwiches
were done, I just the flower would have killed me.
But if by some miracle, I didn't get the infected
flower and I somehow make it to civilization, I'm gonna
(04:05):
be okay because I'm great at making friends and listen,
it seems like what you need to survive the apocalypse
is the ability to develop strong friendships and then also
be able to mediate those relationships. A great emotional intelligence
is like through the roof, and this is what I'm
gonna rely on to get me through. If we could
just stick together and rely on like these like I
don't know seven people. In college, I lived in a
(04:28):
two bedroom with twelve people for like a year. You'll
learn how to like work with your fellow man under
these conditions. And no one's bringing in any money. It's
just vodka and leftover pizzas every day. I think I
could survive to make it to a Jackson situation if
that that were to align otherwise the media death you
can hear yeah.
Speaker 6 (04:48):
Better than.
Speaker 5 (04:52):
Correct.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
Also, I just want to say, like I'm realizing now maybe.
Speaker 5 (04:55):
It will be worth going through the Courtyceps apocalypse if
we will get our own houses in Jackson hole, because
in a house otherwise, So I'm like, maybe how about
you a nice sweet guy?
Speaker 6 (05:07):
I don't know, Oh, thanks, so that's so nice to you.
I think a plus for me surviving is I don't
like bread or pasta, so I would not eat it.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Mostly that would got me on day one.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
I am pasta with mushrooms and I would be out.
It would be dead.
Speaker 6 (05:24):
I also don't like mushrooms. So the negative though, yeah,
I mean like some mushrooms.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
In general, while watching this show, I like them less.
Speaker 6 (05:32):
The negative though, is my vision is horrible. We talked
about this. I have glasses, and if I were separated
from my glasses, my daily contact lenses would only last
me so long and then I would be absolutely useless. Yes,
in every way.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
Uh.
Speaker 6 (05:48):
If I were to make it to Jackson, I think
I would do well because I like small communities and
I like towns, and I grew up in the cold
in a small town. I went to college in the
cold in a small town. The only thing that would
be negative, I think is I don't like riding horses,
so if I have to do patrol, I'd be in
trouble with that.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
So we're not sending you on patrol because of the
eyes sight things. So it's totally fine. You could be
in the kitchen tasting the foods, you know, tending.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
Cows, do some painting or something.
Speaker 6 (06:18):
I also someone I mean protein and vegetables. But I see, yeah.
But one thing I do love is like whenever I
play a board game, I love trading. So I would
love to be the person who's like, oh, you collected
two zip locks full of legos and you collected sixty
(06:40):
bottles of beer boom, can we can trade these things?
So I would do well runing the trading tree, ning.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
The trading post.
Speaker 5 (06:49):
Okay, So something I mean, it's quite clear, I think
from what we were just saying, but all of us
are definitely I think more in like the group mentality
of how we would survive this. But I think something
that's very interesting about Last of Us, especially this season,
is there are a lot of kind of individual versus
group how would you survive the apocalypse? Obviously, first season
is very like low morphrom Car, but it's just Joel
(07:11):
and Ellie.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
He won't survive.
Speaker 5 (07:12):
And then second season becomes more about these communities or
tribes or roving groups. How is that working for you, Joel?
As kind of a narrative change.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
You know, it's a challenge. You guys have spoken and
we've spoken a little bit off camera off Mike about
you know, what's it like post Joel what's the show
like if Joel's not here, what are reacting to you?
Speaker 4 (07:38):
What are responding to.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
When we get to what's your first character? Irving Ian Isaac?
Isaac got there. Isaac is an incredible character who I
immediately missed and was like, well, we you had such
a great introduction, and where was he this episode? I
need more time with Isaac, and I feel like we
haven't gotten a great balance between these different factions. Not
(08:04):
enough to know that I should be scared of both,
enough to know that their conflict is one that goes
way back and has no foreseeable end at this point
in time, but not enough to be like, oh my gosh,
when these two people are fighting, I'm so scared. I
have no idea who's gonna win. I don't know who
I want to win it. I know it's very clear
(08:25):
everybody else is strangers, and so that's really a challenge,
I think. And then two, because I really like at
least storyline this season, but I do think the rise
and fall and tention of it is not as strong
as season one, and because of that, you're sort of
just feel displaced a bit in the story and that
(08:46):
you're all over the place you still care. Production design
is still good, costuming, it's still hitting, performances are still there,
but it feels like it's lacking sort of the deep
emotional heart like gut wrenching moments. I have moments where
I'm like you of fear, but not moments of oh
my god, my poor heart, like what are we going
to do? How we're going to make it through this?
(09:06):
And I think that was sort of what a lot
of people were connecting to in the Last of Us.
And maybe it's that our own reality has driven that
emotion so high that we are now like the balance
is out of whack when we're watching it on the show,
but it's it's difficult. Yeah, I'm sort of in the
middle of there.
Speaker 5 (09:21):
I guess common You are a non gameplayer, right, you
and I, You and Aaron both. So would you guys
talk a little bit about how you are enjoying this season,
because in the discord, I have to say, are non
gameplayer TV only fans. They have actually been very positive
about this season, So I would love to hear you
guys kind of talk about that a bit more.
Speaker 7 (09:44):
I will say, for myself, I feel a lot less
emotionally invested in this season than I did the first season.
I think the first season did a really good job
of getting me like emotionally invested in the characters, even
in the like uh, I mean, of course, that Bottle
episode in the first season is the one that really
was like, Oh, this show is awesome. And so I
(10:05):
think in watching the second season and who I am,
I am watching with my boyfriend who who has played
the games. So I'm watching it with a game player
who is like obsessed with the moments that are like
so like he's obsessed with the moments that are like
(10:25):
directly from the game. He's like, Oh, this is so amazing.
You know, this is directly from the game. And you know, yeah,
I'm kind of more I kind of stand more where
y'all do. With like the the song went on a
little bit long certain things, I'm starting to feel like, Okay,
that's not very realistic in a show that has kind
of always previously been very very realistic. So I am
(10:48):
struggling a little bit more with the second season as
a non game watcher. I feel like I feel like this,
you know, I feel like it's made maybe a little
bit more to appeal to the game players.
Speaker 6 (11:00):
How about Yeah, that's interesting because again, haven't played the
second game, and I did feel like season one had
these major action set pieces that felt right out of
the game, like the sniping from the tower, like there
were things that just felt like, Oh, as someone who's
played video games my entire life, this feels like a
video game scene. This season, it doesn't feel like these
(11:22):
major set pieces are necessarily like I can't imagine how
the attack on Jackson Hole would have been in the game,
if it was at all. And I'm finding myself enjoying
season two quite a bit even without any point of
reference for it. The individual verse group conversation, I think,
(11:42):
is one that I have struggled with a little bit
because I felt like season one was so beautifully focused
on individuals. Even within the groups, you find yourself having
these horribly sad stories around the guy that they meet
and his little brother, like that is just so haunting.
(12:03):
And then in this one, other than Isaac, we really
I don't feel a strong connection to any individual within
any of these new groups that's been introduced other than like, well,
like I said, Isaac, But part of that is just
because I know who plays him, and that seems like
it's going to be a really important role. So I
do think that while I love, love, love love Dina,
(12:26):
and I think like she is brings us great energy
to the show, and so I really like her introduction
to the traveling unit of you know, like at its core,
this show's a road trip no matter what, and like
we are once again with this great little Buddy Cup
road trip, except it's just these two high school girls
who are on revenge, out for revenge to kill another
(12:50):
high school girl kind of thing, like you know, it's
it's due revenge, but in Zombie Apocalypse. But so I
think there's there have been things that I know people
have had problems with based off the game, and I
think having no context whatsoever, I have just enjoyed it
more because it all just is like, oh, they're moving
the story along here. There have been a few things
that feel like, oh, they got here faster than I expected,
(13:12):
but nothing feels like, oh, they're just pushing it to
get to level six and now here we are we
have to get do this to get to level seven
kind of thing. So I've enjoyed it, and maybe that
is just because I haven't seen the video game.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Yeah, I mean, I'll say as a game player part
of and I like the show. I want to be
clear that I like the show. It's just I thought
that season one sent an incredibly high bar that season
two is not hitting for me. It's kind of like
I've seen it, you know, when scenes unfold that our beat.
Speaker 4 (13:46):
For beat like out of the game.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
It's a little bit like, well, I did this, and
I saw exactly this scene. I know exactly what it's
where it's going. And I thought that season one, again,
your mileage by vary. Some people might be like, listen,
the Last of Us two is the greatest piece of
storytelling that's ever happened.
Speaker 4 (14:06):
Don't you dare you love that thing? Fine? That's fine.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
I you know, personally, I like the I love how
season one elevated the material and and used the different
space allowed in a visual medium in a story, that
storytelling medium of television to like widen things out and
deepen certain things, and how it used your disconne disconnection
(14:34):
with the characters, you know, because you play as Joel,
you play as Elis who experience things differently, to allow
that perspective to like move around to different characters, to
NPCs like Bill that who you just encounter and never
really know anything about in the game. And so for me,
that's what takes this show up a notch and makes
it different than you know, every other post apocalyptic kind
(14:58):
of road train slash zombie apocalypse movie that's out there,
of which there are many, many, many, and it helps
it avoid you know, for me, one of the big
I tune down on The Walking Dead not just because
of the story, because I started to feel like this
is just kind of like wish fulfillment for people like
who hope that a civil war breaks out so they
(15:22):
can like kill their neighbors, you know what I mean.
Like it's just like people who want to be like, oh,
I think I could be a warlord, like in Tulsa,
like after civilization falls, Like people who just want to
cosplay in that kind of headspace. And The Last of
Us never does that. It's or at least it does
it a little more this season, but it's still like
(15:43):
this human story about life and about how important life is,
and about trying to rebuild society in some kind of better,
more just version as they're doing Jackson.
Speaker 4 (15:53):
That's the thing that I really respond to.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
So I think the show again, I can really see
how if we weren't aware of the game, you might
be enjoying it more than if you had then if
you'd played a lot hours.
Speaker 4 (16:07):
In the last of US.
Speaker 5 (16:07):
Two, I would say, I feel like you pretty much
summed up how I feel.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
Jason, like, no surprise, we always agree.
Speaker 5 (16:14):
But like I will say, I do think something that
season one was so incredible at was taking the vibe
of the game, or kind of the feeling of playing
the game and translating it while also expanding our understanding
of the world and our understanding of the world building
and our understanding.
Speaker 3 (16:32):
Of the actions of the characters.
Speaker 5 (16:35):
Like the finale. We've talked a lot about how that
kind of makes a pretty direct statement on the more
ambiguous ending of the game where you were kind of
left to feel how do you feel about Joel after
the game and the end of the first season, they
did such a great job making it this kind of
terrifying realistic like mass murder, and I think that this
(16:58):
season they're doing a little bit more direct adaptation of
beats from the game, which I do feel like was
not as much of a point in the first season,
aside from like it is an adaptation, But yeah, for me,
I have the same feeling.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
I'm also interested let's go to a quick.
Speaker 5 (17:13):
Break, but afterwards, I'm interested to talk to you guys
about like the length of this season, the way they're
doing storytelling, because I think that has impacted.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
A Yeah, let's talk about so only seven episodes for
the last of US season two. It feels short. I
mean season one was nine that felt short as well.
If you know, to me, anything less than ten feels
like not a full season of TV, especially if it's
(17:59):
an hour our drama. How do y'all feel about seven
episodes and how do you feel about the pacing thus far?
Like are you looking ahead and thinking, oh, man, I
wonder how they can land this thing in three more episodes? Joelle,
let's start with you.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
Yeah. Absolutely, I as a little insider baseball, but I've
known for a while that episode six is our standalone
flashback episode. The end of episode five sort of tips
you off to where we're going there, and I feel
like it's hard right because Okay, in this episode, in
episode five, we get the stalkers and one of the
(18:45):
genuinely such a horrifying scene, which brought me back to
episode one with the first encounterment soccer, which is was
the highlight of the season so far for me, Like
these horror element moments that we're getting into our spookier
than they previously, or there's something terribly about a horride
of zombies you they oh gosh, there's so many of
them that's really challenging, versus a predator situation where you're like, oh,
(19:09):
I'm being hunted now, flipping the script in that way,
and then sort of pairing that with this fear of
losing people, or or really more an examination of what
is it to let go? Like how does that happen
when it's it quote successful and what does it cost
or what are the sacrifices being made? Is intriguing, and
(19:31):
yet I feel they haven't gone very far with it.
I still feel like we're at the introduction of it,
you know, at the introduction of these thoughts, and so
therefore I'm kind of I just I yes, I don't
love the pacing of the show. It's been a struggle
to get through in that I feel like I'm always
(19:51):
looking for more. But that being said, I've never wanted
to not watch the series. I'm like intrigued and invested
in the like the next hap ings. I need to know.
The Ellie and Gina thing is so it's terrifying to
me because I'm like, when is the explosion going to happen?
At some point Ellie has to turn into Dina and
be like you, part of this is your fault, Like
(20:11):
you messed up. Like I just feel like there must
be a resentment somewhere and we're not quite getting there.
Maybe we're getting it a little bit with they're not
boyfriend slash best friend kind of situation jumping back into
the picture, but their emotional journey has been one of
like we're besties and we understand each other and we're
moving forward. And every time Ellie runs into a situation
(20:33):
where you should not be doing this, Dina doesn't. She's like,
I'm with you. I have one hundreds understand you. And
so therefore that had that really drove these and one
is not here.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
That's a That's a great point, Joelle, because I think
that is I'm realizing something I've been reacting to too
is I think Dina is an incredible character and I
just love four of her and I think part of
of what I feel like I'm missing is that is
that complexity that tension. We just found out or she
just found out that Ellie has been lying to her
about a thing the whole time they've known each other,
(21:08):
and that seems to be not a problem at all.
Where is that tension and will it ever emerge?
Speaker 4 (21:17):
I think is a good question.
Speaker 5 (21:19):
I also think that they The reason I think it
feels tangible that we're missing it is because they touch
on it when Ellie and Dina come back together and
Dina kind of reveals what she learned and who killed Joel,
and there is a moment where you kind of get
like Ellie is the Joel now and Dina is the
(21:39):
kind of young.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
Like, let's talk about it.
Speaker 5 (21:42):
But I feel like they haven't kept up that dynamic,
which I would have liked to see go a little
bit longer.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
Yeah, it's tricky too because it's almost become Dina's mission.
Ellie would have would have gotten like five hundred yards
outside of Jackson before she got mercury, had no food,
in bad shoes and like no mass bullets, you know,
and no horse, like she would have just been walking.
So to see Dina take over to this level has
(22:09):
been really fun. But to your point, I do wish
there was more to that relationship than just Dina activating
this mission in all the ways that that Ellie.
Speaker 5 (22:20):
Can't Aaron without knowing kind of where it's going In
the same way, do you feel does it us being
five episodes in, does it feel like it's going to
be hard for them to wrap up this season in
two episodes?
Speaker 3 (22:30):
Or do is it just feel like you're excited to
see whatever comes next.
Speaker 6 (22:34):
I think I'm just excited to see what comes next
because I know there's gonna be another season and I
don't logically know where. I assume this one is going
to end with some confrontation between Ellie and Abby, and
I know, gee, this isn't a spoiler, but I know
that Abby is a playable character in the second game,
(22:54):
and so that is fascinating to me, like we did
have They did that so well, I thought in episode two,
and you talk about this in the recap, where we
follow Abby for a large part of that episode, and
we see her in danger running from the zombies, and
we feel for her and we sympathize with her until
all of a sudden she runs into Jol and it's like, oh,
wait a minute, no, this is She's out for revenge too,
(23:15):
and she's about to do something to one of our
main characters. So I don't doubt that they can make
us feel for Abby again and make that a compelling storyline. Truly,
I don't know what happens when the two of them meet,
so that is very fascinating to me. I cannot wait
for that. And I think this show has done a
really good job of every time there is an episode
(23:37):
or a long chunk of time where I feel like
stuff's not really happening, then all of a sudden we
get some major thing. And that is what I think
what Joelle is talking about, where like maybe the pacing
is off, but every other episode we get a huge
piece of candy that we love and so I, oh, sorry,
(23:57):
go ahead, no, no, no, no, yeah. So I'm really enjoying
that part of it.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
I wanted to ask you, Carmen and Aaron as non
game players, because I think one of the critiques I've
seen from the game centric audience who are a little
disappointed in this show is like, why did they nerf
Ellie this much? So by the time you're at this
point in the story in the game as Ellie, you've
(24:23):
probably killed I don't know, thousand bags, like not a thousand,
but like fifty maybe fifty people, maybe maybe thirty.
Speaker 3 (24:31):
Including season one, I mean game one.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
I think, well, just on a mission, just on it,
just on the mission, just going to Seattle, leaving Jackson,
maybe you've killed thirty forty people or something. To me,
to put that on the screen is to make this
show a completely different show than it was established as
it season. Now you're watching John Wick or something, right,
that's greazy, right, but like.
Speaker 4 (24:54):
How do you so, how would you respond to that?
Speaker 2 (24:59):
Seeing it a game accurate Ellie light out from Jackson
with another nineteen year old and then like kill I
don't know, like twenty WLF members on the trot after
they get caught up in the in the former news
offices or whatever.
Speaker 7 (25:18):
I mean personally, that wouldn't work for me in terms
of like, okay, realistic storytelling. I would just be like, Okay,
this is absolutely ridiculous, you know. And so obviously I
think what maybe would I think, what maybe would people
would respond better to is if maybe the writing of
(25:39):
Ellie and you guys have talked about this many times,
like this has been brought up, but maybe if the
writing of Ellie and Dina was just a little bit
more in depth and a little bit more like I
feel like they could they could be providing, as you said,
they could level it up for the for the show
by adding like an additional emotional layer to Ellien, you
(26:00):
know that we already haven't gotten in the video game.
So I just don't think making it more like the
video game in that sense is going to be a
realistic crout for.
Speaker 5 (26:09):
Yeah, about the logic of the show and what the
show establishes in the first season and the opening episodes
of this season, and I just don't think there's any
way that them going out there and like just like
lighting everyone up and like, I.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
Feel like she's pick an ass though absolutely she keeps surviving.
Speaker 5 (26:28):
I also think something interesting is like they kind of
replaced her like ability to kill now with her ability
to survive. She is getting strategy, and I think that
is interesting. How, Aaron, how would that kind of tone
shift work for you?
Speaker 6 (26:47):
Yeah, I think Carmen said a really appropriate thing. Karmen
said level up, And like in video games, we are
trained to watch our main character or our playable character
level up as a go through harder and harder challenges
and fight harder and harder enemies, and therefore you trust
that they can take on the boss or the huge
(27:08):
situation when that happens. And that doesn't really happen in
screen because every superhero movie has one moment when the
hero realizes their power and powers up or reaches their
full potential. They don't have the time to do that
six times and like change your class and multi class
over here and learn a new skill. That's that's a
video game thing. So I totally get that they would
(27:31):
not be able to do that in the show. I
don't know how you would write it differently to be
maybe more successful than it is now.
Speaker 5 (27:36):
But I think the connection of like, is somebody bad
ass because they've killed a bunch of people, Maybe that's
something in the American consciousness we should like consider anyway.
So I think that's kind of a cool thing that
they're not going that route, you know, to show that.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
I mean, she sort of just kills them with a pipe.
Speaker 7 (27:55):
As we said, want to murder, staffing and survival. That
is a strategy, just as you know, going guns of
blazing as a strategy. So it's like she's you. I
would think maybe if they had drawn more comparisons to
how and they have done this a little bit, but
if they had emphasized it more, if they had emphasized
more about how Ellie is kind of becoming more like Joel.
I think they kind of leaned into that a little
(28:16):
bit more. It might help to.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
Let's do a quick ranking of zombified enemies. Where do
you puts infected in terms of like the cannon of
all times zombies or undead monsters, so like, you know,
the Chatari, the White Walkers, the Walking Dead, zombies, et cetera.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
Where do you put Cordy steps infected? Okay, I will
say this first. The spore situation of all elevate you
this episode, I'm like, probably just a little bit below
White Walkers. You know, they're cool, the design element is nice,
(29:07):
and they're creepy. The fact that they can sense you
from far away is a really cool feature. Not all
zombies have. You know, you have to be quiet usually,
but this one is like, if you touch me in
a forest one hundred miles away, I know you're there
and I'll send them to you. That's fucking crazy, but
now I will send me keep you alive. To the
point where I was like, are they conscious. This is
(29:30):
so scary.
Speaker 5 (29:30):
I'm saying, like, if you're ranking them like fear wise,
I think for me, this is the scariest version because
especially recently biased with episode five, but that notion of
not just how terrifying a stalker or a bloater or
any of the different versions of the Cordycepts zombies that
we get, but just also like the horror of being infected,
(29:54):
of transforming. There's quite a cosmic horror element to the
kind of like you are part of the hive mind,
like you are being built into the wall and the
fungus is growing on you. Like that is scarier to
me than the white Walker. Like the white Walker is
gonna just come up to me and be like, ohh
bit to stab you because I'm taking over the Seven Kingdoms.
Speaker 3 (30:13):
It's like a famous English actor.
Speaker 5 (30:14):
I'm like, okay, but I think I'm scared of a
running zombie, like a twenty eight Days the kind of
running zombie.
Speaker 3 (30:20):
But that's like secondary to me.
Speaker 5 (30:22):
I think these are some of, if not the most
horrific zombies we've seen common Europeic horred.
Speaker 3 (30:27):
So when your and you.
Speaker 7 (30:30):
Gave me a perfect you gave me a perfect segue too,
because I literally I just watched twenty eight days later
this weekend, and I think it might be a recency bias.
But here is my ranking. I've got to say it's
got to be the rage virus is then every one
most scary thing to be. I agree that that is
so scary because first movie where they're fast zombies and
(30:52):
they're also acknowledging the fact that the virus has transmitted
through blood. Second would be I would definitely say the
Cordyceps zombies. They're terrifying. I like that they are varied.
There's like different types that they can manifest as, and
(31:12):
so I would be scared of a stalker. I don't
think I would be as scared of like just one
of like the regular droning ones, you know what I mean. Okay,
you could take a clicker, Yeah, I could take a clicker.
Speaker 4 (31:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (31:25):
A third third in the ranking for me would be
And this one's controversial because they're kind of vampires and zombies,
but the strain I.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
Have, Oh that's so scary.
Speaker 5 (31:40):
You're not a horror guy, So are these just like
the scariest zombies you've ever seen?
Speaker 6 (31:44):
Or have you?
Speaker 3 (31:45):
Do you have other zombie knowledge.
Speaker 6 (31:46):
I think it's it's a shame we're not putting the
White Walkers first because they have the Syrian so you
can have as many landed zombies as you want.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
You have they done, they do have an ace dragon.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (31:58):
Second, I would say would be infect and I think
third would be World War Z where they like climb
on to themselves to the walls. That's terrifying to me.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
I have to clue because yeah, that's true. Yeah, that's
they figured that out. Okay, so let me see, let
me do my ranking would be I actually think Cordy
Steps might be the scariest because of the spoor thing
like the blood, the the the rage infected theoretically because
(32:29):
it moves. The infection happens like within thirty seconds of
like a blood to blood event. I think theoretically like
it could burn out quicker, like there's a very little
chance of oh my god, this guy I'm in the
room with is infected, like you would know right away,
so that you're cutting off those kind of events where
(32:50):
somebody who's like mildly infected develops the infection over the
course of like a day, and in that time infects
everybody in your in your town or five village or whatever.
So I think the spores make it scarier. I also
think that the twenty eight the Rage zombies, it's like
they're just like regular people who are driven completely insane
(33:15):
by this virus. So when winter comes, when the seasons change,
like they'll just die.
Speaker 3 (33:24):
Yeah, just die, They'll.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
Just die out, Just let die, you know.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
Whereas as we've yeah, as we've seen with the Cordy Steps,
they just they have other kind of survival strategies and
then the big boss ones just keep going. And so
I think I would put I think I would put
Courty SEPs.
Speaker 4 (33:41):
At the top, ahead of Rage, ahead of.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
World War Ze movie version, and certainly ahead of all
of the kind of shambling the Night of the Living Dead,
Day of the Dead, Dawn of the Dead style shambling hordes,
which are like, honestly, who cares.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
It's not like you could.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
Take you walk away from I mean a machine gun.
And we've seen the Zach Snider.
Speaker 3 (34:10):
Then surprisingly good.
Speaker 5 (34:12):
But yeah, Aaron and Jason, just before we go to
another ad break, as the musicians, I need you guys
to talk about at lea is guitar.
Speaker 6 (34:21):
What's going on.
Speaker 3 (34:22):
With the guitar playing. Is Bella playing the guitar?
Speaker 6 (34:24):
Aaron, your thoughts, Okay, so Bella is playing a guitar.
Bella is not playing the guitar part that is in
the recording. And I went back and rewatched the performance.
Bella is actually playing, I believe, the same chords. But
it is a very fingerpicked song where there is inside baseball,
there's use of fingers as well as thumb. Bella is
(34:47):
only using thumb to basically strum out the root note
in the five of each chord. She's changing chords at
the right time, and you know, I believe that they're
playing the structure of the song correctly and they just
had to learn it that way and just couldn't do
it live on screen. I don't know if they're the
ones playing it in the recording or not. Uh, they're
(35:08):
not playing that part of the guitar.
Speaker 3 (35:11):
This is when come Thanks very Vision for Yeah musical, No.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
This is I found this controversy somewhat weird, I guess
based around the fact that Mason is like, oh no,
that's them, that's them playing it. But again, I think,
you know, I think that's kind of not it's clearly
not all the way accurate, because this is I don't
think they did that live on set. I think this
(35:38):
studio record. They recorded it in a studio, right, and
then eighty yard it on top of the live performance
on the set, which is totally fine. But the way
that payment, I.
Speaker 4 (35:52):
Think is phrased, leads.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
You to believe that, like, yeah, on the day we
rolled camera and they just they just went and we
just taped it and we took like the best version
of like that didn't happen.
Speaker 4 (36:04):
It recurs in the studio.
Speaker 5 (36:05):
Be fad to ask Bella to do that if that's
not something they're already doing.
Speaker 3 (36:09):
And Bella did a great job, did a great job.
But I'm glad that the.
Speaker 5 (36:13):
Guitar lovers and the musicians were able to establish that
as it has been a conversation piece.
Speaker 3 (36:19):
Let's go to a message from our sponsors and we'll
be read. How about our back.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
Finally, Okay, Pedro Pascal, there's been a he left us
as the gailers expected to leave us.
Speaker 5 (36:50):
Non gamers did not expect, as the messages, the messages
in my WhatsApp told me.
Speaker 3 (36:55):
When everyone I knew watched.
Speaker 2 (36:56):
It was a nine ned stark death kind of impact
for this show for the non game players. How do
you think the show's going without him thus far? Joelle,
Let's start with you.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
Well, I think that there was a stronger understanding of
who that character was, what made him interesting, and because
you start with such a singular focus. Joel's world was
his daughter. His daughter was taken, the whole world burned,
(37:33):
but he's still not over the initial loss of his daughter.
Here comes another person who can sort of fill that void.
He will do anything to protect her. That is a
very straightforward line, you understand fully from the top, Like
what's going on where I'm at with Ellie is like
Ellie survived a bunch of loss, her worst fear came true,
(37:55):
and now she's lost, which is interesting, But it's challenging
to connect to that when the feeling of that loss
feels very distant. And by this I mean yes, she's like, Okay,
(38:16):
I'm going to go avenge my father. I will stop
at nothing great. Do you push other people away when
you do that? Typically that's the thing that happens when
you become singularly focused. You're not as focused on the
health of everybody else. Typically that has an alienating effect.
I think too. When you're keeping a lot of secrets,
(38:36):
when they start to be revealed, there's like a vulnerability
of exposure that causes people to do a whole slew
of different types of things depending on who they are
and where they're at. But we're not really seeing like
you feel unraveled if your job has been to protect
these secrets and now they're out, and I just feel
like we're not. I don't feel Ellie's sliding. I feel like, oh,
(38:57):
Elia's got a girlfriend, now, that's awesome. They seem to
really like each other and mission is going according to plan.
Mostly I'm a side but thank god he was here.
He swooped right in save them. That was great. Yeah,
And because of that, it's sort of you're just like, well,
I'm lost now and I don't have a good villain
(39:17):
to fall back on, which is typically really helpful. It's
not something the show has needed in the past. But
I just say, if you're gonna introduce Jeffrey Wright and
he's gonna be that great, maybe he's the focus for
a little bit, Like maybe he's the counterweight too. I
think a strong counterweight to what Ellie is doing consistently
might have also been a great point for the show
to pivot off of. So I think we are feeling
(39:40):
the absence of Joel. That being said, I am invested
in the story of Ellie, and I think and with
the understanding that I also really liked about the show
is that it feels like the show has always been
the last of us, and the US was vital because
we're constantly spinning off into these other stories and that
had become so interesting. And what I'm thinking about now
(40:02):
is those stories are wrapped up really quickly, so you
understand the the importance and what the US you were
visiting was trying to tell you about the world, because
you're getting a getting middle end really quick. And right now,
I don't know what's going on with Isaac. I saw
him have a term, but I don't know where it's going,
right And so yeah, I think without those like more
(40:23):
vignetted sort of feeling for the pacing, and without Joel
to sort of ground you in, Oh my God, like
he's like we lived his biggest fear with him, we
lived Ellie's too, But I don't know something about like
where it's positioned in the show, Like that's where we start.
We see the before and after very clearly. It's it's
(40:44):
just the feels a little less meaningful in its direction
than when we had Joel.
Speaker 5 (40:51):
I would also say it's harder, I think, for them
to make it as obviously emotionally stark because Ellie now
has the community of Jackson Hall.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
That's not the same.
Speaker 5 (41:01):
But I do think that it feels a little less
urgent in the way that they've presented.
Speaker 1 (41:06):
Right because she chose to leave a safe space when
Joel had no safe space to return to. Yeah, that's
a great point. Rosie also as well, I will.
Speaker 5 (41:14):
Say my personal feeling about this. We talked about it
a lot, but in listening to our conversation talk to us,
I also do think that ironically, a little more of
the way that the game told the story, in that
we were in Abby's perspective for a longer time, I
think that is missing from this episode.
Speaker 1 (41:31):
The counter.
Speaker 3 (41:34):
I want to know about.
Speaker 5 (41:35):
I think an opening you could have had an Abbey
Bottle episode. You could have had something like that, and
I think it would have made it less stark when
we lost Pedro.
Speaker 3 (41:42):
But also I just want to say, Pedro Pascal is like.
Speaker 5 (41:44):
A fucking generational talent and I do also think this
was always going to be an issue for the show.
And it's not that Bella isn't Isabella McCart isn't, because
they are both going to do incredible things and already
are doing incredible things. But it's very hard when, like
Carmen said, the show had deep understanding of who Joel was,
and it doesn't necessarily seem to have it for some
(42:05):
of the other characters.
Speaker 2 (42:06):
In the same way, I want to pivot off something
you said, Joel, which I think is really great.
Speaker 4 (42:12):
It is that this show is called.
Speaker 2 (42:13):
The Last of Us, and it's I think the way
that I perceive that for shows like this, for post
apocalyptic shows, is.
Speaker 4 (42:26):
Are our characters going.
Speaker 2 (42:28):
To like give into the primal violence, the nihilism and
have this idea that, well, this is the way the
world is now. You're allowed to kill people and murder
people and take their stuff, and you know, the the
level by which you could accelerate to like fatal violence
(42:48):
is like actually pretty low and that makes sense in
this world. Or are you going to try to And
this is what I feel like the Last of Us
is what makes it so good, is are you going
to try to maintain some of the things that were
actually good about the world that is now gone, like
about empathy, about valuing people's lives, about like not killing
(43:11):
people just because you disagree with them, you know, because
you think they might pose.
Speaker 4 (43:15):
A threat to you.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
And it's that that, I feel like elevates this show
and what I feel like. And even though I never
really thought about it before, I've always kind of perceived
The Last of Us as meaning that, like, how do
we hold on to this little island of community, of
of you know, equality in a world that has completely fallen.
(43:41):
How do we not become whatever they're doing in Seattle
on either side?
Speaker 3 (43:46):
You know?
Speaker 4 (43:47):
How do we not do that? And when the show
holds that part of it.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
Up, I think it's I think it's exceptional, and I
think I'm glad you brought that up to all, because
it's not. It's I hadn't really thought about it in
those terms before.
Speaker 1 (44:03):
I had to find a friend a lot about whether
a long long time belonged in the Sties or not.
They're adamant that it didn't, and I was like, this
show is called The Last of Us. We need to
see the us who were the who were detective? What
are we saving It's just like when I'm watching Star
Wars back in the day when I was like, we're
always up here with the high people, we're with low people,
and now we have and or stay with low people.
That's where the stories are good. What did you think,
(44:23):
Carman about, like just where the show is good? Do
you feel like the direction of it? Do you feel
like you know where it's going? Are you good with
where it's at?
Speaker 7 (44:35):
I will say this season, I'm having hope that, you know,
the third season will kind of pick up its pace
again and kind of figure out some of these kinks,
because for me, this second season it feels like a
little bit of like an in between, kind of truncated.
Speaker 1 (44:51):
Yeah, one and a half almost yeaheah, Like I.
Speaker 7 (44:54):
Don't I don't know if this is like its own
season in the same way that season one was. So
I'm still kind of holding out for season three and
hoping that they'll kind of maybe bring in some female writers,
maybe bring in some people to like, you know, tell
these more emotional stories and give us more episodes. Even so,
I honestly like, as you said, Joelle, the most interesting
(45:17):
thing for me was like, Oh, I'm really I want
to know more about Isaac. I want to know more
more about Abby. Yeah, you, Pascal is hot and I
love him. Ye miss he is dead now, you know.
So give me more, Isaac, Give me more, Abby, give
me and I and I really am hoping that they
can do something in these last couple of episodes that
will just kind of, uh, bring it home.
Speaker 5 (45:38):
For me, kind of tying all of that together with
the Last of Us and what that means, and kind
of I do think you guys will touch on something
that for me is like the world building in the
first season is so fantastic and it is from meeting
those different communities, and I feel like that has not
been established in the same way for the Scars for
(45:58):
the WLF, and I know the world is expanding, but
I do think for me that would have made this
season stronger so far if we'd have had a little
bit more insight into who these people were, what their
view of the world is, why they behave the way
they do. That is what makes the Last of Us interesting,
(46:18):
and that's what makes great TV storytelling interesting.
Speaker 1 (46:21):
If you take that WLF where the Seraphytes are executing
the WLF member through episode five, like when you get
to that point in the video game. That's almost the
it's the introduction for the Seraphytes, right, Yeah, like that's
pretty much the beginning.
Speaker 3 (46:37):
We never got that whole thing with them, and.
Speaker 1 (46:39):
So that element of horror works. But since we've already
been introduced to the fact that they disn't vowel people
with many more bodies and a vere horse, it doesn't hit.
And because I don't know that w Left member or
those serophytes, I don't have an emotional investment in what
they're doing, so they don't like each other, right, And
so all that scene really does then is it's like, oh,
there's not anywhere safe, like and we know the serah
(47:01):
fights are on the park, which is not great at
the end of episode five for us to be at
that place in storytelling, so that I think, I think
just almost like that sort of drag it. But again,
there are so many great moments throughout the series. It's
still it's still living in like B plus territory for
me of like, this is still a fun and engaging space.
Speaker 4 (47:19):
No, it's true, Yeah, I'm solidly B plus as well. Yeah,
it was just.
Speaker 1 (47:25):
Yes, and we're worried about the child We're like, please,
they could do a plus work what's happening.
Speaker 5 (47:32):
One of my many nieces and nephews is really into
rating things at the moment and very into like S
rate you know.
Speaker 3 (47:40):
But I think for a while it was I think
the first season.
Speaker 5 (47:44):
Was s T I forget, which is so rare, and
I think that's the only reason we're looking at it
this way is because there's a little bit of.
Speaker 3 (47:53):
Something.
Speaker 5 (47:54):
I think it's the truncated nature of the season, the pacing.
It kind of takes me out of the logic of
the show. Where is that first season is legit just
you are on the journey the whole way, and you.
Speaker 7 (48:04):
Even open up with world building in the first season
just with that, like that kind of like interview section
where they're talking about the courty steps and stuff, and
just if they would zoom out a little bit, I
think too.
Speaker 1 (48:16):
That could I sort of missed those moments, to miss
that happening so far in between different time periods, and like,
how do people receive information that seems far out? How
did you know the scientists initial reaction to these things?
And because we're not jumping either into other territories, even
like we had that weird stop in season one with
the indigenous couple where they were like rob them for
(48:38):
some stuff, and like that was just such an interesting
peak into a life and then we were gone and
people survived.
Speaker 2 (48:45):
Yeah, I will say that I think that there is
I understand that this show cannot be three hours an episode,
that I do feel as if those little you know,
those little download moments, there are exposition starters, for sure,
but I think you could drop those in through the
perspective of Gail or Maria or these other characters. Where
(49:12):
was she when this broke out? What was she doing?
Speaker 1 (49:15):
Like?
Speaker 2 (49:15):
What is what are her memories of the first critical
few days of this crisis? I think those things could
both widen the world and deep in our connection to
the new characters, of the characters who've just been introduced
this season. Yeah, absolutely, even like someone like Dina who
(49:35):
was obviously very young, but like, what are her actual
memories of this?
Speaker 5 (49:40):
I know, what does she remember just outside of maybe
like just telling Ellie like this happened. It was bad,
you know, Like we got to see that a little
bit more in season one, And I do think Gail
would have been a great kind of launchpad for that.
I love that edition of that character. I also would
love to know more about Maria because I thought she
was one of the most interesting.
Speaker 4 (50:00):
And you have in season one.
Speaker 7 (50:04):
Can I say something too that I think has been
kind of affecting me This season is like the first
season is really about like survival and like finding you know,
your people that you can survive with, and this season
has taken a notable turn to being about like revenge
and I don't know but about y'all, but it feels
so dumb, Like when you look at like Jackson Hall
(50:27):
was great, why the hell are we going out to Ken,
I would just be like that sucks. She killed my
like dad figure, But I am not leaving Jackson Hall.
Speaker 5 (50:36):
I also so that was a little critique of from
people who hadn't played the game who were like, this
is like a silly revenge plot line, blah blah blah,
and I was thinking, like, you don't understand, But now
I'm kind of like, also, like, you know what, if
I was like told me, I would have tied Ellie up,
like you're staying in the house and listen to this.
Speaker 3 (50:53):
And down over it for a bit, Babe, I was
like leaving.
Speaker 2 (50:56):
That revenge I love and I do think I love revenge.
It's it's one of the most elemental plot devices we have, right,
you know, And I think that, uh yeah, I'm a
little disappointed in Jacksonville for not putting other options besides
sixteen riders or we don't do anything out there, right, Like,
(51:18):
I think there were things in between that said I will,
you know, I do think that the application of revenge
and the way that it's both taken over Ellie's life
and also doesn't seem to like it's weird that she's
less angry.
Speaker 4 (51:38):
Don't you think she.
Speaker 2 (51:41):
Was so much more angry when Joel was around, and
now she's been consumed by this revenge mission.
Speaker 1 (51:50):
And doesn't she's having fun and she's having a great
time and the show is sort of like not true,
not diagnosing her with anything, But there do seem to
be two sides of her, right Like there is when
she gets into these moments of fully in revenge where
she can enact this violence, there's a switch and as
(52:11):
the switch we saw in season one, which I genuinely loved,
like it was a great flip, I think by not
again exploring to me secrets are such a huge part
of like young women's lives, and I think, yeah, particularly
in spaces where that are like male dominated and it's
(52:31):
the post apocalypse would be And I just think if
you had all of this rage and you were falling
in love with a person, as person was like I
love you back, you would not want them to see
the side of you because it's terrifying and people know
it's quote wrong and therefore like I just don't, which
goes back to the like there's not a lot of
tension between Dina and Ellie. I just feel like we're
(52:53):
seeing two very different sides of her, but there's no
attempt to like showcase how she's hiding or what I say.
Speaker 5 (53:00):
I think that there's another kind of lack of conflict
or friction where there could be something really interesting in
Ellie trying to hide that from herself. And I have found, like,
I know, we spoke about this on the recap, so
you can go and listen to me talk about it
more that I'm a big tatty Gabrielle fan. So I
didn't love like the way that they portrayed Nora's end.
I just I couldn't really root for Ellie doing that.
Speaker 3 (53:20):
But also I think I think there's optics issues when
when you're cast like that, but also I also think
that there is that flit.
Speaker 5 (53:30):
It was just to me, it did still feel like
it came out of nowhere in this context because of
that lack of friction, because of that kind of lack
of they're having a great time and then suddenly they're
downstairs and they're in the spores and she's just gonna
beat her to death with a pipe.
Speaker 3 (53:44):
Just leave her there. She's gonna die, She's not.
Speaker 2 (53:47):
I just think that there is there there's a binariness
with Ellie's character where she's completely good in the context
that we are comfortable with her being completely good in
with her with Dina, with her on the mission when
she's not in the presence of people she needs to kill,
(54:08):
and that when she kills like she killed Nora, she
goes to the dark side. But we don't ever feel
the presence of that in the rest of her character,
And I think there's a kind of unwillingness to complicate
her in that way that doesn't exist for other like,
(54:30):
for instance, Abby, it's important that we know her motivations.
We could easily see her as just the villain we
have to kill her. She must be stopped. We have
to take revenge for this. But despite the fact that
we haven't gone that deeply with her, we already understand
like her motive. This is her father that was murdered.
She found his body like she loved him, like the
way that Ellie loved Joel, and we've established that. But
(54:53):
we've also seen the way she acted to her wolves
that she forced basically to go on this five year
mission of revenge to find this person, and the way
she reacted to them, like almost with like a iron
hand of like shut up and fucking do what I
say to inject her with that fucking drug. Yes, I said,
we weren't gonna hurt people.
Speaker 4 (55:13):
Now we are. What what the fuck are you gonna
do about it?
Speaker 1 (55:16):
With Ellie?
Speaker 4 (55:18):
We don't want that to happen.
Speaker 2 (55:19):
We there's almost an allergicness to feeling as if Ellie
and she is I'm not saying she's forcing Dina to
do this, but I'm saying a person in their rational
mind would be like, you're pregnant.
Speaker 1 (55:32):
That's it.
Speaker 3 (55:33):
We're going on.
Speaker 1 (55:37):
The pregnancy. That's an army. Yeah, two people without weapons.
This is crazy. We're going to die, Yes, but.
Speaker 2 (55:47):
To make that decision right is kind of that Abbey
like singular focused, almost obsessive, like crazed, monomaniacal, like I
need this bloodlust must be slaked. But there's none of
that because it is just like.
Speaker 6 (56:09):
So that I love it.
Speaker 2 (56:10):
I love Ellie too, and I love that she's our
hero and I'm going to follow her to the end
of this story. But it does feel a little less complicated.
Speaker 1 (56:19):
Yeah, and then we got those complications with Joel too,
like when we think like he could never tell what's
her face that he was in love with her, even
though clearly they had had this very long relationship where
they had a level of dedication to one another. Yeah,
even when he's meeting Bill and Frank, like there's a
difficulty in connecting, like he's only really connecting with them
over protect Yes, got that we have the guns, we
(56:42):
need the gates perfect. I think with Ellie we get
just it's just too little. I think we knew more
about Jackson and saw more people's interactions and how Ellie
left them feeling that we might have a clear picture
of who she is because right now, like when we
get in top of like oh, you're part of this
community now. But also these guys are willing to like
(57:02):
train with her and are pulling their punches because they
care enough about her to like do real damage. Like
it's just not a full picture of her as a person.
And I think too, it's been hard, and I've heard
that people see, like it's hard to root for Ellie
this season, And here's what I'm really bumping against and
where I feel like the show was, like, Joel's absolutely wrong.
(57:23):
He killed a doctor in the apocalypse. You're killing health
workers in an apocalypse. I don't know what There's a
more egregious crime at this point in time than killing
somebody who heals Like that is insane to do, and
Joel did it in a moment of like she's literally
gonna die. She's right there and she's going to die.
Speaker 3 (57:46):
What would you?
Speaker 1 (57:47):
And you still find the violence abhorrent and you're still
like this is absolutely wrong, But there is a certain
level of like I sort of understand what's happening here.
Where's Ellie. He's been passed. You literally had to heal
from a whole injury. You're out here with somebody who's
extremely vulnerable, Andrew were killing doctors, like, what are we doing?
It's again, it's just feeling a little lost. I'm hoping
(58:09):
they can land the plane, but it's like, really, do
enjoy this show?
Speaker 5 (58:12):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (58:12):
Two episodes left, so we're gonna find out well.
Speaker 2 (58:16):
Coming up on x ray Vision, we have our recaps
of the final three episodes of and Or. Tomorrow Friday,
we'll be back with our round table. And this Saturday,
we're serving up some hot news with a special featurette
on the Apple TV Plus series Murder Bots. Coming up
next more Star Wars end Mission Impossible. Folks.
Speaker 4 (58:34):
That's it for this episode. Thanks for listening.
Speaker 2 (58:36):
By x ray Vision is hosted by Jason steps Young
and Rosie Night and is a production of iHeart Podcast.
Speaker 5 (58:44):
Our executive producers are Joe Alminique and Aaron Kolefman.
Speaker 4 (58:48):
Our supervising producer is Abu Safar.
Speaker 5 (58:50):
Our producers are Common Laurent Dean Jonathan and Bay Wag.
Speaker 2 (58:54):
A theme song is by Brian Vasquez, with alternate theme
songs by Aaron Kaufman.
Speaker 5 (58:58):
Special thanks to sol Ubin, Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman and
Heidi Are Discord moderator
Speaker 6 (59:07):
M
Hosts And Creators
Jason Concepcion
Rosie Knight
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