If You Knew Better: Durand Bernarr Knows Friendship Break Ups

In this episode of If You Knew Better, Amber Grimes sits down with Grammy-winning artist Durand Bernarr for a heartfelt conversation about adult relationships, friendship dynamics, and personal growth. Durand opens up about the emotional challenges of friendship breakups, emphasizing the importance of accountability, communication, and honesty in maintaining meaningful connections. Together, they explore how life experiences shape the way we show up in relationships and why being clear about your needs is essential for long-term emotional health.

The conversation also dives into self-discovery, evolving friendships, and the difference between genuine support and surface-level connections, highlighting the distinction between real friends and fans. Amber and Duran discuss how change is inevitable and how letting go of certain relationships can be a necessary step toward growth. With vulnerability and insight, the episode encourages listeners to prioritize authentic relationships, practice emotional awareness, and embrace personal evolution.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey, y'all, is Lauren La Rosa with the latest with
Laurena Rosa on Black Effects and I cannot wait to
see you guys at the fourth Annual Black Effect Podcast Festival. Okay,
we're coming back to Atlanta, Georgia on Saturday, April twenty
fifth at Palman Yards and it's hosted by me alongside
DJ MV and charlottagnea God. We got drink chances of

(00:21):
Noriega and Djafing. We gotta keep it positive, Sweetye with
My Girl, Christopher N.

Speaker 2 (00:26):
Haslin.

Speaker 1 (00:27):
We got Reality with the King with My Guide, then
my brother Carlos King, and y'all know he does reality
commentary like nobody can.

Speaker 3 (00:35):
Now.

Speaker 1 (00:35):
We also have Don't Call Me White Girl, the podcast
I Love Mona and Club five twenty podcasts, along with
the Grits and Eggs podcast.

Speaker 2 (00:42):
So this lineup sack Baby, turn up.

Speaker 1 (00:46):
You're also gonna want to check out the panels that
we have lined up too, Feature and Cab on stage,
Pika Sumpter, and John Hope Bryant just to name a few.
Of course, it's way bigger than podcast. We're bringing the
Black Effect marketplace with black owned businesses, bus the food
truck court to keep you fed while you visit us. Okay, listen,
you don't want to miss this. Tap in and grab
your ticket down at Black effect dot Com Slash Podcast Festival.

Speaker 2 (01:11):
Welcome to If You Knew Better with Ambergrimes, a production
of the Black Effect Podcast Network and iHeartRadio. Today's guest
is Duran Bernard, a Grammy Award winning singer, songwriter and

(01:33):
vocal powerhouse whose artistry is as expansive as his personality.
Duran has always bloomed out loud through music, whose style
through honesty. But this conversation isn't just about creative expression.
In this episode, we talk about adult friendships, romantic shifts,
out growing dynamics that want fit, and learning how to

(01:55):
love people without shrinking to keep them comfortable. By Hello,
I'm very excited to have you today. I have to
save all of my excitement for right now. Yeah, you
did it, You did it, Grip. When I saw that
you were Grammy Award me Grammy nominated, I said, wow,

(02:18):
that's and three by the way, what total?

Speaker 3 (02:23):
So for total?

Speaker 2 (02:24):
I was like wow, I love that for him. I
love when like the right people get the love and
like finally get the flowers I said, that's cute. I
love that. I like sometimes they did it right. Yeah,
But then when you won and you scared your ass
across that stage where Sean running behind you with.

Speaker 4 (02:46):
Speech was because he's like he done, forgot his speech
and I'm up here, like let me get my phone, which,
by the way, two of my favorite things that speculation
about me having my phone up were so tickled. First
they said that I was hurrying up trying to take
a selfie from the stage, like look y'all, like here
I am. And the other one was I was quickly

(03:09):
changing all of my bios on my social media handles.

Speaker 3 (03:12):
To Grammy Award winning?

Speaker 2 (03:13):
Are you?

Speaker 3 (03:14):
I'm like, is that the type of person you were? No,
that was not what was going on.

Speaker 4 (03:17):
I was going through my notes to get my speech
and I forgot where I put my my actually physically
wrote it, so that's why Sean was running behind me
so I could read it from.

Speaker 3 (03:25):
The what I actually love a good team. Yes, listen,
what is it mean.

Speaker 2 (03:30):
For you when I say that you did it?

Speaker 4 (03:37):
I was able to accomplish something on this level while
my parents are still in this realm. That has been
the main thing, like because their older parents. You know,
I didn't know how much of my life's journey and
the things that I'm experiencing they would be able to
be included on and both of them, you know, because.

Speaker 3 (03:58):
Because you know, once you.

Speaker 4 (04:00):
Get older and you start seeing, you know, the mortality
of your parents, you know, you start to wonder, you know,
who's still going to be around. You know, I have
my my cousins and my friends that are you know,
their parents are passing away.

Speaker 3 (04:12):
So I'm just I'm looking at them like all right, But.

Speaker 4 (04:16):
That that was such a that was another moment in
my life. I'm like, if I died today, I'd be
good like this, experiencing that having the sources of my
of my confidence and my audacity be there when I'm
being received on such a platform in front of the world,

(04:38):
they get to see the result of who they were
to me and y'all are right there. That that is
for me saying.

Speaker 3 (04:49):
We did it.

Speaker 4 (04:51):
We me and my personalities, all those different versions of
myselves that are still there that I that I that
have helped me get to where I am.

Speaker 3 (05:00):
It's that's how we did it. You're not going to
make me cry of the show.

Speaker 2 (05:06):
So you need a relax. I never know what somebody's
going to bring into the room. But that's beautiful, and
congratulations to you, and I'm very proud of you. And
I'm so happy for your parents to be able to
have shared that moment with you. Yeah, so now I
receive what that means for you.

Speaker 3 (05:27):
You did it.

Speaker 2 (05:28):
It's amazing. Yeah, it's amazing.

Speaker 4 (05:30):
Like we're at the end and I can't even say
I'm at the top of the mountain. It's the top
of a mountain because that top of that mountain is
the beginning of another. It's not even the best is
yet to come. No, No, the best is right now.
Every moment that I have, activity of my limbs, the

(05:53):
breath of my body, that is like really being in
my purpose, if there was ever a purpose.

Speaker 2 (06:01):
That probably is a beautiful definition for being present what
you just said, not thinking fast forward in the future,
what's happening next, not thinking about anything in the past.
But this is the best right now, it's the best.

Speaker 3 (06:15):
This is right now. Let's focus on what it is
right now, and this is beautiful.

Speaker 2 (06:21):
I brought you here for a very special reason today. Yes,
I promised that this show was going to be about
me learning too, but I think you have a pretty
good handle on something that I need some help with.
Talk to me selfishly, I said, let's have Duran come
on and talk about what you know about getting a

(06:42):
little older and navigating those complex, interesting, challenging adult relationships. Yes,
it could be your relationship with your parents, it could
be a relationship with friends, it could be relationships intimately. Yeah,
but things have changed somewhere along the way. It is

(07:04):
not as easy as it was. It's getting hard.

Speaker 4 (07:06):
The easiness of making friends when we're children, because there's
no intentions other than you want to play with my toys.
I have a toy, you want to play Okay, let's
it's very that. And then we grow up and we
realize that people will people, and that can be a

(07:30):
very beautiful thing, and then it can be a very
scary thing because we are capable of so much, and
our experiences sometimes can shape how we move, how we
interact with people. And I try to always make sure
that I'm not operating in a place of I'm going
to alter who I am because someone else mishandled me

(07:55):
in a way kind of like well, if you got
into a car accident, you're like, well, I'm not you know,
fuck cars, It's not the cars, it's the person.

Speaker 3 (08:06):
That's trying to do their makeup. Wow, the well the
light is green. Amen. So case my case.

Speaker 2 (08:14):
You say all the time that you write songs about
your friends and about your relationships, which I think is
very cool or maybe scary as as a friend.

Speaker 4 (08:24):
But you know, I mean, that's funny that you say that,
because there have been people that have almost wanted to
read been reluctant to interact with me in certain ways
because it's like, I don't want to end up being
a song.

Speaker 3 (08:40):
You don't want to be a hit.

Speaker 2 (08:41):
Thank you.

Speaker 3 (08:42):
I'm not gonna sounds like an honor.

Speaker 4 (08:43):
You don't want to be a hit, you know, just
behave correctly, you know, and it'll be a positive one.

Speaker 2 (08:49):
A where you write songs about your friends and bloom
I thought was like, Wow, I really want to talk
to you about it here, because that project is about
who you're becoming, and specifically, I feel like a lot
of these relationships get more complex when people are growing

(09:10):
and you're not expecting that you're going to grow apart
from somebody that you've always been close to and that
you've connected within a certain way, or you just shared
your toys with when it was so easy. Can you
talk to me about what it feels like, or maybe
a specific example of you growing and realizing, damn, everybody.

Speaker 4 (09:31):
Can't come those kind of moments, kind of the initial
moment of realizing, Wow, we have outgrown each other. And
I don't like to look at it as because.

Speaker 3 (09:44):
I actually I did rat it.

Speaker 4 (09:48):
I think I wrote like two songs about this actually
within this cycle, because we are back in the UH
in the studio. But it's it's about just because we're
growing a partner's I mean anyone did anything wrong. It
just means that we require different things, and either of us,
or at least maybe me, I'm not in a position
where I'm open to setting any part of my body

(10:11):
on fire to keep anyone warm. You know, that's a
breeding ground for a resentment. So I would rather us
be truthful and forefront about what it is that we
need and if we can't provide those things for one
another at this time, I'm even cool with taking an intermission.
Sometimes relationships need an intermission. I took one for six

(10:31):
years and came back. Actually, I thought we were going
to take a seven year hiatus ended up taking six
and we just needed to grow individually. Sometimes the process
that you have to get your cocoon stage, don't nobody
else need to be in there. You're literally liquefying so

(10:53):
that you can branch out and become this other thing.
And sometimes that requires some you time. Sometimes other folks
might not understand it. Sometimes they got their own thing
that they're going through and you don't want to internalize.
And at least for me, when I took my break,
a song called Completed came out of that and I

(11:15):
got my friend back. Not the same friend, but this
is the version of of us that I was looking
forward to meeting, the version of us that are happy
and healthy in our minds.

Speaker 3 (11:27):
That aren't trying to.

Speaker 4 (11:30):
Make our issues in our lives someone else's because you
know there might be lack there. Sometimes we want relationships
to remain just because we have history, and you know,
the scripture says just because you have history doesn't mean
you have a future. And that goes for relatives as well,

(11:53):
and there's a fine I always try to say this,
there's a fine line between relatives and family.

Speaker 3 (12:00):
You got to sort them out because.

Speaker 4 (12:02):
Relatives or who you share blood with and I ain't
got them to do with that.

Speaker 3 (12:06):
That didn't none. We did not choose that.

Speaker 4 (12:08):
However, family are the people that come into your life
and embrace you, not accept because acceptance requires permission. I
don't need nobody to accept me be myself.

Speaker 2 (12:18):
But and have you dropped my mic?

Speaker 4 (12:20):
But they're expensive, and because I'm an audio engineer's son,
anytime someone drops the mic, I'm like, oh no.

Speaker 2 (12:27):
Jesus, I just I just went through a little friendship breakup.

Speaker 3 (12:31):
Oh those are the worst.

Speaker 2 (12:33):
They're worse than a boyfriend girlfriend.

Speaker 3 (12:37):
Absolutely, it's way worse. Yeah, nobody told me.

Speaker 2 (12:41):
I wasn't prepared. I think I'm like really good at actual,
like intimate relationship breakups. I can still be friends with
you after we can can't get Yeah, yeah, I'm solid
with that. The friendship breakups?

Speaker 3 (12:52):
How long were your friends?

Speaker 2 (12:54):
Over twelve years? Over twelve years and you know something
happened and it's confusing. We don't know whose fault it is.
I think I'm right, you think you're right. You think
I did something wrong. I think you did something wrong,
and none of it matters, by the way, But like
I have never but I had a couple of friendship breakups.

(13:15):
Three just bring you'll get a breakup.

Speaker 3 (13:20):
I wasn't asking for them. Ship was going down.

Speaker 2 (13:23):
Okay, three, And I'm glad that you said what you
said because two of them, two of them are have
been repaired, and one of them it's history.

Speaker 3 (13:37):
Gotcha.

Speaker 2 (13:37):
And I would love to hear you speak about just that.
I feel like it's grief that you feel. Absolutely you
have a friendship breakup.

Speaker 3 (13:46):
Oh yeah. See, here's the thing we try to.

Speaker 4 (13:51):
Categorize, you know, the relationships. It's the intimate relationship. It's
a there at like you said, there are relationships. There
are bonds that we are building that we are building
with people. We are fusing ideas and feelings and all
of that stuff. So and also with the friendship because

(14:13):
we perform. Usually when we're dating someone, we're trying to
put on our best best foot forward, our representative. But
with friends, it's like child, Yes, this is my bond
and you know my this, that and the third my
this that we're not trying to perform, we're just being ourselves.
So when that outlet that that bond where you can

(14:35):
really be yourself, you're not performing. And that area is
you have to now operate outside of that without it.
It's it's definitely an adjustment. But make no mistake, friendship
breaks breakups are absolutely a fake. That is, there is
grief there. Think of it like eras in music like that.

Speaker 3 (14:54):
For them first two albums, we was hitting. That was
what this third one tho. I don't know if I'm
I don't know if that's that's the sound for me.

Speaker 4 (15:04):
I don't know if I'm your target audience, Okay, that's it,
your emotional and mental target audience.

Speaker 3 (15:09):
I don't know, but I want you to be great though.

Speaker 4 (15:11):
But I'm still put the album, still put it. I
hope it does what it needs to do.

Speaker 3 (15:15):
It's just not for me. So you're you're going through
this friendship breakup.

Speaker 2 (15:21):
You said you've been through one before, and how do
you get there? Like actually, because you said it and
you made it sound so easy, like, oh, it's fine.
I guess we're just not a line. But you know
that's not how you know that's a process.

Speaker 3 (15:33):
Oh yeah, no, there is. That's good. Yeah, the acceptance
of it.

Speaker 2 (15:37):
Talk to me about that.

Speaker 4 (15:38):
The main friendship that I can think of that we
took our break and then came back. There was a
conversation that we needed to have and address the elephant
in the room. It's just I'm not in I'm not
happy being your friend anymore. It was just as simple
as that, Like I think we have to That's when
I allow my my inner child to drive, because when

(16:00):
he speaks, it's very clear, it's when you did X,
Y and Z that hurt my feelings. It's not I'm
trying to attack you and this is who you are.
I'm letting you know what you did, how it affected me,
and if you don't want me to feel that way,
then an adjustment would come or a modification would take place.

Speaker 3 (16:20):
It was also us.

Speaker 4 (16:21):
Acknowledging that we did not have the language to express
what it was that we were feeling and going through
because we were in our early twenties as well, you know,
and when you have people that are placed in environments
that showcase all of the areas in their lives that
have lack, it's hard to it's hard to really be

(16:43):
present in that. Regardless of how much I try to
share what it is that I have with you, it
was like it still wasn't enough. So that's when we
needed to the resentment. Just the comments that would be made,
you know, and it's like, this isn't healthy right now,
So we need a we need a moment to.

Speaker 2 (17:03):
Don't skip over that. The little signs of realizing that
somebody so close to you a relationship, a connection ship,
excuse me, a connection you're so used to you don't
feel good in anymore. Yeah, there's all there's these little
things that you begin to pick up on and normally
maybe you would ignore, and then at some point you
gotta be like, and we.

Speaker 3 (17:22):
Have to stop doing that too.

Speaker 4 (17:24):
A lot of times we will just let shit slide
because oh, that's so and so, or that's just how
they are, and they don't even know that they are
being a thief of our peace of mind because we
haven't said anything. A lot of people just assume, well,
because you my friend, you're supposed to know how to
handle me. You haven't even told me how I'm supposed
to specifically handle you in this situation. This is new

(17:47):
for everybody, So we can't just assume just because we're
friends or because we're in close proximity.

Speaker 3 (17:52):
Some things. You just got to let me know.

Speaker 2 (17:54):
Well and also check ins because I have been on
the other side of that where I'm saying, oh, this
is how I am, and you've always been able to
handle it. You know, you know how I am. And
it's actually okay for that person to be like, yeah,
but you're not gonna handle me like that anymore.

Speaker 4 (18:11):
That part one thing that I've done every so often.
I'll head up one of my homegirls or a friend.
I'm like, so, how have you been feeling towards me
as your friend? Have I been a good friend? And

(18:34):
she was like, oh, is.

Speaker 2 (18:35):
This a check in?

Speaker 3 (18:36):
Oh my god, we're going to okay? Okay, you know
that was Chelsea.

Speaker 4 (18:39):
It's like like yes, Like, I mean, because I'm curious,
is there anything that you've noticed that you might feel Oh,
I don't know, friend, or you know you were getting
a little defensive or you might you know this, like
what is it that I'm not saying? And that comes
from trust, Like I trust that you are going to
be my eyes, not only my eyes when I can.

Speaker 3 (18:59):
See are you?

Speaker 4 (19:00):
Are we a good representation of each other when we
are not in the room. So I'm I'm here for confrontation,
and confrontation doesn't mean to argue. It means to confront
the issue face to face. What's the problem. Let me
know what's going on.

Speaker 2 (19:16):
I think we should normalize friendship check ins.

Speaker 3 (19:18):
And and friendship therapy sessions.

Speaker 2 (19:22):
Okay, talk to me about the difference.

Speaker 4 (19:25):
First and foremost. Anytime that I've been partnered, I always
got into therapy. Well in my thirties, anytime I've been partnered,
I would always get into that I'm in therapy.

Speaker 3 (19:36):
I got two of them.

Speaker 2 (19:39):
Somebody, somebody was just telling me about the people of
LA who have two different therapies.

Speaker 4 (19:42):
Maybe if I need a man and a man and
a woman, I need perspectives. Okay, sometimes one might need
to be available. I need wild counsel this right now.
But usually, yeah, when I'm partnered, I don't wait until
things get like to three months in.

Speaker 3 (20:00):
Let's get into therapy.

Speaker 4 (20:03):
Wow, things are good so that we can accumulate some
tools on how to handle each other, so in real
time situations we can use those tools to talk.

Speaker 3 (20:14):
There was one situation and my my my last relationship, and.

Speaker 4 (20:21):
We were discussing his need for control and we were
trying to figure out, well, what are some mediums to
where you can be comfortable and I don't feel like
I have to over exert this and that and third,
and so he gave an example of what we could
do and stopped hisself mid sentence and was like, uh no, wait,

(20:44):
that's me being in control again.

Speaker 3 (20:46):
I got to talk to doctor William about that.

Speaker 4 (20:47):
And I'm just like, I love this, like it's it's
we are we are in real time trying like the
issue is not we it's us against the issue and
not It's sometimes nice to name the issue.

Speaker 2 (21:02):
I want to talk about accountability.

Speaker 3 (21:03):
Oh, let's talk about it. Oh my god, what is
that here my phone?

Speaker 4 (21:08):
I have an excerpt I want to read about accountability.
Oh my god, please go ahead, go ahead, go ahead, No,
what does that bring in the room for you? I
need have to ask a question. We just talked about this.
Let's go ahead and get into this right now. So,
so this is the excerpt. Accountability is not the same
as punishment. Accountability is an act of care. The main

(21:29):
form of accountability we've been given is punishment, public shaming, optratization, canceling, grounding, detention,
and incarceration. Punishment is the main tool of the prison
industrial complex and thus tied to white supremacy. Punishment says
you caused harm, so we will harm you in retribution.

(21:49):
This harm involves disconnecting the harm doer from those who
care about them by way of incarceration. Because we are
wired for connection, punishment is antithical to healing. In the
criminal justice system, admitting that we've caused harm I e.
Plead and guilty leads to social ostrigation, I don't know,
I fucking that word of a criminal record, and incarceration.

(22:10):
Because punishment is the main form of accountability that we've known,
we've come to learn that we must never admit wrongdoing.
Accountability says you caused harm and are still deserving of care.
With accountability, we can acknowledge that we caused harm, make amends,
and stop cycles of harm from occurring. We do this

(22:30):
by being in community with others that will hold us accountable.
Accountability looks like being called in or called out, having
a conversation where harm is named and amends are requested,
and naming our boundaries, including boundary violations. With accountability, no
punishment is required. Instead, we move towards repairing and healing.

(22:54):
For those unfamiliar with accountability, outside of punishment, feelings of
shame may come up. Shame tells us I did something
wrong therefore I am wrong. Shame is not the same
as remorse. Remorse tells us I messed up, I hurt someone,
and I need to be accountable. For those unfamiliar with
accountability outside of punishment, feelings of defensiveness might also arise.

(23:17):
You might feel the need to tone police the person
who asked you to be accountable. You might feel that
they are being mean instead of kind, nice, or polite.
But here's the thing. If someone took the time to
name the harm you've caused, that's the kindest thing they
can do for both of you and them. The very
active naming the behavior demonstrates some belief in your capacity

(23:40):
to hear what they're saying and learn from it. We
need to build our capacity for being accountable. Accountability is
a skill set. We need to push through our fragility
so that we can see accountability as an act of care.
And we need different models of accountability that aren't rooted
in punishment.

Speaker 2 (24:04):
All right, because I heard in there, Oh this is
a note. Yeah, okay, I heard a few things in
there that we need to talk about. Yes, let's talk
about naming that the harm. Yes, how do you do that?
How do you do it?

Speaker 3 (24:18):
Safely.

Speaker 2 (24:18):
And how do you build up the courage to let
someone know because you said it comes to you easily,
your inner trial takes the wheel. You hurt me. This
is how this is what it feels like. Yeah, talk
to me about.

Speaker 4 (24:33):
That, because it's important that we name the thing and
not put that thing on the person. That's why I
said when you did, which is when you did, it's
an action. It's not who you are. So when you
did X, Y, and Z, it made me feel this way.
I'm not attacking. I'm just acknowledging my feelings based on

(24:54):
your action. So if that person can say, well, damn,
I don't I don't want you to feel that way,
let me not do that. That's But if you say, well,
I'm sorry you felt that way, or I guess I'm
just the worst person in the world, that's defensiveness because again,
accountability has never come without punishment.

Speaker 3 (25:14):
We don't want to repair and heal. We want to ostracize.

Speaker 4 (25:17):
We want to separate, you know, so we haven't seen
accountability be handled with care.

Speaker 2 (25:24):
What's the right way when you're on the receiving end
of that a friend is telling you you've harmed me.

Speaker 3 (25:31):
This is what it is.

Speaker 2 (25:32):
This is how I felt.

Speaker 4 (25:34):
I'll never forget the day that. And I've talked about
this on TikTok briefly. But a friend of mine was
very much a people pleaser, very much. She was a
walking flame because she was always trying to keep everybody
else warm. And then you know, she was deconstructing that,
trying to unlearn and started setting boundaries. And it started

(25:55):
with her relatives, started with her sister, her mom, all
that stuff, and we were getting so excited her life.

Speaker 3 (26:00):
Yes, friend, get them. Okay, you better accept them. Boundaries. Ooh,
bitch me next, Okay, I can't wait. And I didn't
have to wait long.

Speaker 4 (26:11):
Her expressing to me that I did something that caused
her discomfort well after the fact, like it didn't, it
wasn't in real time, but I was. I was so
taken aback, like why wouldn't you tell me that I
was causing you discomfort? Now I'm about to go ride

(26:31):
down to Long Beach and I'm gonna be in this
car in complete silence thinking about how I made my
friend feel like that is my That is a personal
kryptonite for me is my friends, people that I genuinely
have bonds with being disappointed in me, I could literally
throw myself off the cliff.

Speaker 3 (26:52):
Like that's how how it feels.

Speaker 2 (26:54):
You are not a defensive person at heart.

Speaker 3 (26:57):
I don't. I don't think so. And if I do,
if I do have it.

Speaker 4 (27:00):
I was thinking about this this morning, about like ego,
Like how like if like we all have ego? But
what if I had to compare it to an animal?
What size would my ego be? I would like to say,
my ego is the size of a hedgehog. He's cute,
you know what I'm saying. You don't know that he's
in there, but he's there, you know. But I don't

(27:21):
think it's anything that's like as as my first therapist said,
the ego was good for the sprint, bad for the marathon.

Speaker 2 (27:31):
I can tell because your immediate thought and I think
you just answered the question that I asked, like, how
do you receive that from a friend? You actually heard
what your friend said? Oh yes, when people are just
listening to just listening to respond. Actually, the conversation immediately
switched from how you how I made you feel?

Speaker 3 (27:53):
Too? Now how you made me feel?

Speaker 2 (27:56):
Now that you're telling me this, And now I've completely
dismissed this thing that you probably like had to get
really brave to come and bring to me, And essentially
being defensive is dismissing your friend's feelings and saying, well,
my feelings matter more, so, why didn't you just tell
me this five years ago when it happened.

Speaker 4 (28:13):
Well, you also have to consider what kind of environment
that person was growing up in to not be able
to take accountability if it were were the mistakes that
they made or the choices that they made were just
so blown out of proportion, or just there was like
there was no room for error, you know, you know
what kind of how so it was supposed to be

(28:34):
you know, you bring home a bee, it's curtains, or
you know, you leave you know.

Speaker 3 (28:40):
Dishes in the sink or whatever.

Speaker 4 (28:42):
Just certain things that people are automatically on the defense
on because we've had to be on the defense all
our lives, growing up, head on swivel, you know.

Speaker 3 (28:52):
So we bring the case in point.

Speaker 4 (28:57):
We are taught early on that telling the truth gets
you fucked up, and then we grow up and we
become adults that are still operating in that what if
I tell the truth, then I will lose something? If
I'm accountable, then I will be dismissed, I will be separated, punished.

Speaker 3 (29:22):
So what's the.

Speaker 4 (29:23):
Point in being forefront if you're going to lose something.
That's the mindset that we have. We're still there's a lot.
There are a lot of broken, wounded children operating these
adult bodies, and there ain't none more dangerous than a
wounded child having access.

Speaker 3 (29:41):
To your brain.

Speaker 4 (29:44):
So it is important that we advocate for those parts
of ourselves. And I know which parts of myselves be triggered.
I like being triggered. Actually, oh yes, give oh yes,
oh yes, shout out to Chris Grayce.

Speaker 3 (29:58):
Being triggered.

Speaker 4 (30:00):
That is a catalyst for growth, because why am I
feeling this way? Let's get to the root of this,
so I don't feel like this anymore. Obviously there's something
on me or something that I'm caring that don't even
belong to me, or that I have not dealt with,
So let's deal with it so I don't have to
feel that. So, yes, a trigger for me is a
catalyst for growth. Oh, we have some have some things

(30:20):
to kind of dust and shake off.

Speaker 2 (30:24):
Being grateful for your triggers, being grateful for being triggered
is something I've never heard before.

Speaker 4 (30:29):
That's beautiful because there's a difference between having abandonment, like
having like issues like abandonment issues, or being triggered by abandonment.
There's a difference. The abandonment issues are something that you
deal with, like it's a consistent thing that you deal with,
versus if something were to take place and it takes
you back to something like ooh, that triggered me. So

(30:53):
I'm not living in it. It's just this particular incident
made me feel.

Speaker 2 (30:57):
That a trigger is like something that still gets a reaction.

Speaker 4 (31:01):
Yeah, like one of the homies. If we're sharing space
together and you leave the next morning and don't wake
me up and tell me that you're like, that's that's
a I hate that because I made my mother promise
me as a child, you don't leave this house without
letting me know.

Speaker 2 (31:19):
Okay, So how do you set your friends up? Yeah,
to know that that's your thing, and that's what you
need because now if it was me, you, yeah, I'll
spend the night over at Dores. You're gonna get a
good Irish goodbye and you'd be lucky.

Speaker 3 (31:37):
You'd be lucky if you get a table.

Speaker 2 (31:38):
I have the friends that go text me when you
get home, my bitch, I am going.

Speaker 3 (31:41):
Through ben No for real. First of all, you got
my location. You see where I'm at all.

Speaker 2 (31:46):
Well that's how I cured it. I made it home.

Speaker 3 (31:48):
Thanks.

Speaker 2 (31:49):
But you this is something you need. Yes, so you've
we've talked about communicating to a friend how they've harmed you,
doing friendship check ins. How do you set a friend
ship up for people to understand what triggers you or
what you're still working through so they can be careful.

Speaker 4 (32:06):
If ca Yeah, I think a lot of that comes
from just spending time with each other, conversations, you know, dialogue, fellowshipping.
Unless you are specifically having a conversation about things that
trigger us or our boundaries, then sometimes it's not going
to be at the forefront to acknowledge that. Sometimes a
lot of these boundaries just need to be. Yeah, So

(32:28):
establishing it is one thing, but a lot of times
you just have to give grace for Hey, that was
not in the forefront.

Speaker 3 (32:34):
I didn't know.

Speaker 4 (32:35):
So now that I know, I know how to how
to handle you properly. Even if there's a situation where
one of my very close friends left and did not
say that he that he was leaving, and I woke
up the next morning he was gone, and I just
remember I woke up six years old.

Speaker 3 (32:58):
I woke up like.

Speaker 4 (33:01):
And usually I would tidy up, you know, before before
I left, and the thought crossed.

Speaker 3 (33:07):
My mind to leave the room a mess.

Speaker 4 (33:10):
Okay, But because I loved my friend and because I'm
not trying to do a tit for tat, I still
made up that bed and I left a note and
it was a sad face and before I could leave,
my adult self said, I sign it so he knows
who is from. Because there's a lot of personalities of bear,

(33:33):
which one wrote this note. It was manner child, And
so we had a conversation after that and he was like, oh,
it was like that definitely was not my intention.

Speaker 3 (33:44):
I thought I handled this the way that I was.
But you know what my bad, you know.

Speaker 4 (33:49):
And even though we were able to have that conversation
early in the day to make amends emotionally, I was still.

Speaker 3 (34:01):
Doing that because that worked me up.

Speaker 4 (34:03):
And I remember going getting home that evening and right
before I went into the house or the ice cream truck, and.

Speaker 3 (34:10):
I was like, you want some ice cream? He's like, yes,
so I had to get my inner child some ice cream, y'all.
Just it'd be that simple.

Speaker 2 (34:22):
Let's just as you want a strawberry short. You know,
taking care of your inner child is important because I
have found whether it's you or another person like you're saying,
that usually is who's breaking up the friendship because it's

(34:46):
a communication. You keep talking a lot about communicating with friends.
That's it's hard.

Speaker 3 (34:51):
It's and not only communicating the comprehension, okay, because we
can be communicating and not comprehending what's being said.

Speaker 2 (34:59):
Can we a dictionary on set and forward? Because like,
you don't play, you don't play with the words and
their meaning and being specific.

Speaker 4 (35:09):
My listen, semantics is my middle name, right along with pivot.

Speaker 3 (35:15):
Maybe lot on these ohs.

Speaker 2 (35:19):
You do not play about your words. I appreciate, but yes, comprehension, yes.

Speaker 4 (35:27):
And community and communication and if you're real nasty with it,
articulates your communication so I can comprehend.

Speaker 2 (35:36):
It's hard in a friendship. And that's why they're so confusing,
because you're like this, my dog like ten years been
to you. Whatever it is? Why how are we not
hearing each other? How are we not able to get
past this thing or do we need a break? Right?
And can I be okay with that? Let's talk about

(35:57):
that conversation when it's time to come back to each
other and how you communicate differently and how you articulate
yourself differently because the goal is different. Yeah, I want
my friend back. You fix this.

Speaker 4 (36:12):
So if we're talking about specifically completed my friend king
that first conversation after six years, it felt like the
reboot of Will and Grace. It was very much right
back into it. Didn't miss a beat, I mean, and

(36:34):
I was so curious, like, well.

Speaker 3 (36:35):
Bitch, what was you doing in twenty thirteen, because you
know this came out? Did you catch this show? Like?
Give me Like, let's get into the things.

Speaker 4 (36:42):
We're on the phone for three hours. We only touched
on why we did not while we had to take
our break the last fifteen minutes of the conversation, and
it was very simple. Again, we just needed our time
individually to grow. And I'm just glad that I was

(37:03):
able to experience the version of him that I was
waiting on to encounter, which is like the version of
him happy, the version of him, you know, succeeding in
the things that he wants to do having healthier friendships,
you know, just hobbies, like all these things.

Speaker 3 (37:21):
I'm like, yes, like this is and I'm so proud
of him.

Speaker 2 (37:26):
You show so much care, which I like how you
framed accountability earlier about like.

Speaker 3 (37:32):
It's care, that it's care.

Speaker 4 (37:36):
It's my belief in you that you have the capacity
to hear what I have to say. And because ultimately us,
when people establish a boundary or they're letting you know
how they can be handled, that's their attempt to maintain
the friendship. Literally, it's like, oh no, no, you can't
put eighty seven in here. You got to put eighty

(37:56):
eight actually, because if you's gonna just engine and there's
all that shit. So we just need to make sure
that we're putting the right things into each other as well,
because we because we're updating. And that's another thing too,
we're updating even in our sleep, and so when we
discover new things about ourselves, you've got to update the crew. Okay,

(38:18):
you gotta update them if you get to a point,
even if it's something as simple as oh I don't
fuck with Brussels sprouse no more, let it be.

Speaker 3 (38:24):
Let it bitch know.

Speaker 4 (38:25):
Because it's like, oh yeah, cause you know, baby, she
loved this brown, she love us and Brussel Spros is
not no more.

Speaker 3 (38:32):
So it's okay to let folks know, Hey, I'm I'm
not the same as I was yesterday.

Speaker 4 (38:38):
I have actually I learned something and it altered my perspective,
you know, and still.

Speaker 3 (38:44):
I'm still who I am at the core.

Speaker 4 (38:47):
However, experiences are are are modifying me how I move,
how I view things, and I would hope that at
the base of it, I'm still kind, compassionate, full of
love and humor and all of suden the mischief, you know,
but we are going we change is inevitable, which is

(39:09):
why I'm roommates with that bitch. So whenever she started
being herself, bitch, let me be the first to know. Please,
I'm up time for that.

Speaker 2 (39:19):
You're hilarious, So you're wait.

Speaker 3 (39:25):
Speaking of hilarious, you know, I'm doing Netflix as a joke.
I'm not doing stand up.

Speaker 4 (39:29):
I like to call it story time, and I'm incorporating,
of course, the music and whatnot.

Speaker 3 (39:33):
But it's all right. Show. Yeah, I have an hour.

Speaker 2 (39:35):
It's giving share. You are the perfect person for a
variety show. That's fun.

Speaker 3 (39:41):
You know who needed a variety show and we didn't
get it.

Speaker 4 (39:44):
And the closest thing that we got to the variety
show from her was being Bobby Brown.

Speaker 3 (39:48):
Whitney Houston. She needed a variety show. She was hilarious.

Speaker 2 (39:51):
I didn't know who you were about to say, but
the best you got out of it was the reality.

Speaker 3 (39:56):
That's what it was. Baby.

Speaker 2 (40:04):
Yeah, Okay, Robbie, Yes, we love Whitney. I'm glad you
brought Whitney into the room. Yes, because I saw that
you said a little bit of bloom was inspired by
the friendships and waiting to exhale. Talk to us about
such a classic film. And when And I'm gonna ask

(40:25):
you another question, Yes, when's the first time you saw
Wing tiktell.

Speaker 4 (40:30):
Uh shit, I wasn't old enough to even like we weren't.
That's that was ninety five, okay, so same so seven,
I was seven. That soundtrack alone was contraband. So I
was listening to TLC and the well chakakanas was allowed.

(40:51):
But TLC SWV all all that, all that all night
long and do do me baby?

Speaker 3 (40:56):
This Oh no shuredn want to happen.

Speaker 4 (40:58):
But when I could listen to it, like that was
my but shoot exhal is probably one of the best
records about life.

Speaker 2 (41:08):
Baby Face Poot is whole and have barely.

Speaker 3 (41:12):
Had any lyrics but them songs. Still don't know where shoot?
And do you don't know? But you know?

Speaker 4 (41:23):
But the thing that inspires me most about, especially watching
it as at around their age, because they were thirty three.

Speaker 3 (41:31):
In the movie or so.

Speaker 4 (41:34):
Regardless of what those women encountered in their personal lives
and their and their intimate relationships, they always had each other.
They always had each other to hold their hand. Are
you scared?

Speaker 3 (41:45):
I am, but I'm holding your hand?

Speaker 2 (41:48):
I asked you when you saw it? Because one, I'm like, okay,
so we all saw way next hell when we were
like six and stuff.

Speaker 3 (41:54):
Absolutely, children don't.

Speaker 2 (41:56):
Know what's wrong with our parents.

Speaker 3 (41:58):
Oh no, they didn't know.

Speaker 2 (41:59):
Oh I was in the movie theater getting my eyes
covered for the for the sex scene. Then back to hey, hey,
because I love the movies. I'm am, wasn't going through
the movies without me?

Speaker 3 (42:12):
I know that's right in the theater.

Speaker 2 (42:14):
Just cover your eyes.

Speaker 3 (42:14):
Okay, Now you can look back again.

Speaker 2 (42:17):
Consuming a thirty three year old woman's problems and friendships
with your inner child and then watching that movie when
you're like, oh I'm I'm I'm Whitney's age now I'm
Angela back. Yeah it's a perspective. Oh yeah, you said,
like it's a different movie.

Speaker 4 (42:35):
Now, it's no different than my father introducing me to
Seal when I was ten years old that the album
the self titled the one where He's naked like this
with Kiss from a.

Speaker 3 (42:46):
Rose and Bring It On and the Okay this Naked
Prayer for the Dying like all.

Speaker 4 (42:55):
Those I love those songs, but I loved it because
of the melodies, because of the thing that the guitar
was doing. It wasn't until I became an adult those lyrics.

Speaker 3 (43:08):
I went.

Speaker 4 (43:08):
I went to go see him for the first time.
What was that twenty twenty three he had two songs
back to back talking about some Don't Cry. I absolutely
said fuck the memo because I was in here's hooeping
the pen game that he has like I. So when
we talk about listening to stuff as children and then

(43:28):
digesting it as adults, like we're hearing it as children,
but we're digesting it as adults. So yeah, waiting to
accept on top of it being one of my comfort
films along with How Stella Got a Groove Back in Baps.
It's just one of those times. It's a timeless thing.

(43:50):
It's a timeless story about friendship and I think desentering
which is Bloom, was me disentering romantic relationships. Talk about
the support that we have with our friends, our sisters,
our brothers, our others, you know, and the fact that
that love letter to them ended up getting the Grammy.

(44:13):
It's like, thank you friends, thank you for inspiring me,
thank you for loving me, thank you for teaching me,
thank you for calling me in, thank you for letting
me know, thank you for keeping me updated, all of
those things, keeping me informed, making sure I ain't gonna
are you surema?

Speaker 3 (44:34):
You know we're good? What's up in there? You go
look up like thank you, just thank thank you.

Speaker 2 (44:42):
It all comes around because I brought that up and
listening to when you're saying when you're speaking with a
friend and sometimes relationships like you need space. Literally. I
think sometimes you are at of age or a place
in your life where you just you hear what your
friends saying, or you're sharing what you're sharing, but you
don't really know what's going on with you or maybe

(45:03):
they don't know what's going on with them, and then
you have this space to grow and everybody comes back older, wiser,
a little bit, more experience, more knowing of themselves if
they've worked on themselves at all, and now you can
digest what they're saying, to forgive or spend the last
fifteen minutes talking about it and saying we back. Yeah,

(45:25):
that space just haven't been grateful for. I'm leaving here
saying I should be very grateful for my friendship breakups
and even if they're not mended yet, this may be
this is a perfect time for me to work on
me so I can be a better.

Speaker 3 (45:46):
Whitney in my life.

Speaker 2 (45:47):
Okay, whatever, My Angela Bassett is buying a way to
exhale character so she can grow, and I hope they're
doing the same. And if we ever reconnect, I think
that will receive better what you need from me, and
hopefully vice versa. But like thank you.

Speaker 4 (46:00):
Time, Yeah, you just need sometimes you just need that
that time. And even with certain relationships, Mam Homegirls said,
just because we're not friends don't mean we enemies. Like
I still wish you, I still wish you. Well, I
just realized we we need different things and we can't

(46:20):
provide that for each other right now. And that's okay. However,
some shit went down. I'm there, I got you.

Speaker 2 (46:31):
I think if you can't do that, you weren't friends
in the first place.

Speaker 4 (46:37):
It can it can It can be that. And then
there's also some things that just people can do. And again,
like I said, there's no remorse, like you don't put
somebody in twenty thousand dollars worth of debt and leave
it to them when you said you were going to
do your half and then think we got some to
talk about. We do not, and you ought to be

(47:00):
glad that we are not in the timeline where I'm
about that life.

Speaker 2 (47:04):
Let me, let's let's relate on something. Let's let's relate
on something.

Speaker 3 (47:12):
I'm gonna tell you. Tell me.

Speaker 2 (47:15):
I have had one of the most important friendships in
my life break up for the very same reason, very
same reason me and my homegirl figured it out doing
all the things roommates because we broke roommates.

Speaker 3 (47:36):
Roommates said that our stories are similar. You're just tap
in you feel yes.

Speaker 2 (47:42):
Okay, broke roommates just living in poverty together and enjoying life.
We worked together, we were building stuff, doing things together.
She wanted to go do something. I was like, okay,
well I'm gonna go do this thing. And you know,
everybody pays her half of the rent.

Speaker 4 (47:59):
And somebody half was missing up out, somebody's half was missing.

Speaker 2 (48:07):
And by the time I found out it was eviction.

Speaker 3 (48:12):
Uh what is it?

Speaker 2 (48:12):
Collections?

Speaker 3 (48:13):
Collections?

Speaker 2 (48:14):
Dang, you know it goes on everybody's man.

Speaker 3 (48:16):
Okay, So okay, So here was my thing?

Speaker 4 (48:18):
Okay about so you know, I traveled for work, and
so I was sending my half of the rent back
because they didn't have the way you can just electronically
do it. So sending that back, my money just disappeared
from somebody's account. So he's like, all right, listen, we'll
we'll get this together. We'll we'll, I'll get this for you.

(48:38):
Didn't hold up his end of the bargain. I'm up here.

Speaker 3 (48:40):
Stuck with with with with the have.

Speaker 4 (48:42):
So the the the management company was pretty much like, okay, well.

Speaker 3 (48:51):
We're sending this to work.

Speaker 4 (48:52):
We can't accept any more rent because it's been too
far back. So we were just going to do a
painting plan to want to bucks a month, which is
nothing hundred for me from this nigga. He wasn't doing
his half. I'm getting called from the bill collector like, yeah,
we're missing a payment. I was like, wait, I sent
my payment in. I was like, look, look, look, let

(49:13):
me just do this. Since both of our names are
on the lease, can you split this in half. I'm
gonna pay Because they just want their money. I was like,
I'll pay my hack and I just gonna do that.
And who was able to do that? So it did
not end up on my collections, did not come on
my credit credit sord So, but even then you have

(49:36):
people like the bill collector, who I was on a
first name basis with, who has got a chance to
speak to my mom and was talking about how much
of a delightful person I am, all the way up
to Eric Abadou who says something you know, pleasant about me.
So regardless of the spaces that I'm in, I try
to have a good rapport with folks. But I'm just

(49:58):
glad that we were able to split that because I
didn't want that on my uh on my account. However,
I did come out the pocket. That was a very
expensive lesson. And again, like I said, had there been
any other timeline where I was about that life. It

(50:22):
had been a movie scene. Oh yeah, are you all
absolutely not?

Speaker 2 (50:28):
And see so now this is so. Now this is
the lesson.

Speaker 3 (50:34):
That I'm sharing with you.

Speaker 2 (50:36):
Yes, my situation happened at that time when I was
still about it.

Speaker 3 (50:44):
And didn't have anything to lose. Oh shit.

Speaker 2 (50:47):
But I would remind that friend all the time, and
anybody that I would speak to that would speak to
them that if I.

Speaker 3 (50:53):
See you, it's on side and nothing to talk about.

Speaker 2 (50:57):
Immediately, I neediate and I'm like, please make sure that
they get the message. For probably five or six years,
I'm just anger and like, I can't believe you did
this to me and all this shit. Later on you
have to pay the debt off to get your all
of that. And we laugh about it now, We laugh

(51:19):
our asses off about it. We make fun of each
other and remember that time you told me you break
my camera and say hell yeah, and I message and
I am so happy to have that person back in
my life because if I didn't literally just last year
when I needed them, if they weren't there, I wouldn't

(51:40):
be here. She takes accountability for being irresponsible in life
and it being something that she's grown from now. I've
seen her grow so much. I'm so proud of her,
and I'm like cool. So like that was a lesson
that you need to needed to learn.

Speaker 3 (51:54):
You needed that, Yeah, and I have nothing to do
with you.

Speaker 2 (51:57):
And the punishment of you learning something that would ever
trauma or whatever it is now was me taking my
friendship away from.

Speaker 3 (52:04):
You when you need me.

Speaker 2 (52:08):
She needed me, and so I just like think. So
I I tell people all the time, with my friendships
or any relationship, I close doors, but I don't lock them.

Speaker 3 (52:20):
The door is closed because there's a draft. It's hold.

Speaker 5 (52:24):
If you look over here, the door is closed. But
if you come jiggle that dog, it will open for you.
And I'm here to hear you out. Yes, I may
not always.

Speaker 3 (52:40):
Come out the door. I okay, come in, you have
to come in, but I will hear you out. Listen
when I tell you I'm okay with a break.

Speaker 4 (52:51):
Seriously. Also, because I'm also very over stimulated. I'm very
over stimulated yourself. Yeah, and especially now, like it was,
I mean, there was there was a lot to juggle,
but there are so many conversations that are being had
that I have to be a part of and there's
very little room for me to even be alone. You know,

(53:14):
so sometimes people might take it personal that I don't
want to talk because I had to talk about the
same thing, or you know, we're rehashing this and it's like,
you know, it's okay if you just come over and
just we be quiet together. I love a little a
little body doubling, a little parallel play. You know, It's

(53:34):
it's important for us to we don't always have to
do stuff and go somewhere because, first of all, going
outside costs.

Speaker 3 (53:40):
It costs to go outside.

Speaker 4 (53:43):
So why don't you just come over, bring your bonnet
and your snuggie and just.

Speaker 3 (53:48):
Go on the couches it down like with your computer.
I'm gonna be over here cooking, like just it doesn't
have to be a thing.

Speaker 4 (53:54):
Yeah, we need to get back to spending time with
people just for the sake of just spending time. Does
not have to be a production. I don't mind this production,
but you know, just do that girl, what you're doing today.
I'm gonna just be at the house work good. I'm
coming over and I got my bunesie, So where you're.

Speaker 2 (54:14):
Bringing in the room for me?

Speaker 3 (54:15):
Which I want to ask you about.

Speaker 2 (54:17):
Is there's different kind of friends, yes, And you can't
treat all your friends the same and you can't expect
the same things from all your friends. I think that
is when you get let down.

Speaker 3 (54:29):
Yea.

Speaker 2 (54:29):
And so you can have friends that you can sit
on the couch with and do the bonnet and do
the cooking and do the silence, which is amazing. It's
my type of friend. But there's also a friend that
you have that if I'm going outside.

Speaker 3 (54:43):
I'm going with that bitch. She's a good time.

Speaker 2 (54:46):
But when it's time for me to talk about my
feelings and emotions and whatever on the couch, she she
may not be the right person to call for that.
And that's okay.

Speaker 3 (54:54):
Everybody has their different capacities, you know, And it's okay.
I'm gonna take this. Take this back.

Speaker 4 (55:03):
When I was fifteen, I garnered the courage to ask
my father if he had ever also had same sex attractions.
Did not go the way that I would have liked
for it too, but I realized them, Oh, he doesn't

(55:25):
have the the wherewithal or the language to speak to
me about this, So I'm not going to speak with
him about this, at least right now. And I was
so fortunate to have other men in my life that
did have that language to be able to give me

(55:46):
the information that I.

Speaker 3 (55:47):
Needed because I like guys.

Speaker 4 (55:52):
So it's like, I'm just grateful that what they were
able to fill in in the gap didn't overshadow or
cancel out all the wonderful things that he had instilled
in me, you know, my dad. So they call it
a village for a reason. It's like some of us
some of us, it's not. It doesn't stop with just

(56:12):
you know, mom, aunts, uncle, cousins. You have people that
operate as the therapist in the village, you know, because
the homies might not have access to that or just
whatever the circumstances are. But you are a voice of
reason for them. You're a voice of perspective. You are
a an expander of their of their minds, you know.

(56:34):
So it's okay to be that role somewhere in the
ether of things. And sometimes I'm the one on the
couch too, shit, because we I don't know as as
beast Slade says, I don't know everything, but I know
a lot and I'm.

Speaker 2 (56:52):
Still learning, so we should This is a thesis of
the whole damn show poetic. So talk about you being
a friend now, what has changed? What type of friend
are you? How do you show up for your friends?

(57:12):
And as an adult, yeah, what are you looking for
in a friend? How do you make new friendships? Now?
As a grown ass man? It's hard to make adult friends.

Speaker 3 (57:24):
No, making adult friends is a journey. However, I will say.

Speaker 4 (57:31):
In certain spaces I think we are when we have
to be on, when it's the industry thing, when it's
more so people coming to be seen versus to come
and actually congregate. I often enjoy encountering people who do
not know who I am. I love those I remember

(57:52):
Maxwell mentioned that in an interview a while ago. I
love when people don't know who I am because then
we both have a clean slate and a fresh start
to begin. And then sometimes I will purposely not say anything.
I love when people don't know, because then we get
to it's just my personality that they live.

Speaker 3 (58:09):
It's like, who are you? What do you do?

Speaker 4 (58:10):
Like you're And also, you know, when you click with
someone like immediately, oh you my kind of people, it's
that right that all says okay that I know who
I'm gonna be sitting next to. You know, so there's
the initial connection, the chemistry, and then we get into
the different layers of like what makes that person who

(58:31):
they are and what you know?

Speaker 3 (58:32):
What are your interests? Who? What's your character, what's your temperament?
How what is your relationship with the word?

Speaker 5 (58:39):
No?

Speaker 3 (58:43):
Do you accept?

Speaker 4 (58:45):
No? Do you not accept? Because consent is very sexy
to me. It's my favorite fragrance and it's gender neutral.

Speaker 3 (58:59):
I got that from Marcus.

Speaker 4 (59:00):
Fine, that's my That's one of my facts because it's
that consense is my favorite fragrance and yet gender neutral.
Even if I know the question, even if I know
the answers, yes, I still like to ask.

Speaker 2 (59:13):
Okay, yeah, okay. So you're getting to know people, You're
getting you're taking the time to get to know people
before you just call somebody your friend.

Speaker 3 (59:21):
Oh absolutely, I'm so glad you brought this up.

Speaker 4 (59:25):
We have to be comfortable with calling people our acquaintances,
our colleagues, associates. First of all, associate means that we
are associated, We associate, and I think a lot of
times folks want to skip steps and just go back to.

Speaker 3 (59:43):
Oh, that's my friend, you know a friend. My friends
can check me. You can't do that or or. My
friends know.

Speaker 4 (59:55):
The different uh flavors of tears that have rested on
their shoulders. You do not, And so I think there's
or or or if not friend girl or sis, and
it's like we're not close like that. That is the
equivalent to a random woman calling you a bitch. That's

(01:00:18):
not a term of endearment from a stranger. So once
we can work our way up, then we can do that.

Speaker 3 (01:00:24):
But right now, or I'll just call you by your name,
how about that?

Speaker 4 (01:00:28):
I will call it this is such and such, And
when I see you, I'm going to acknowledge you. I'm
a hook all that stuff like it's no funny business.
But we gotta be mindful of who we're saying is
a friend. Because we meet somebody one time, we have
a cute little laugh in a cocktail and smoke. Oh
that's my that's my best friend.

Speaker 3 (01:00:43):
Now we are acquainted. Now cool, the best on it.

Speaker 2 (01:00:46):
That's what. Now you're about to piss me off.

Speaker 4 (01:00:48):
I actually stopped doing that long time ago. My parents
are my primary best friends. Everybody else dear friends, dear.
I love the word dear because that's near and dear
to my heart, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:01:01):
But outside of that.

Speaker 4 (01:01:02):
It's we got homies, we got good girlfriends, we got Judy's,
we got the you know what is it Judy? Okay,
so Judy is well back in the back in the day,
there was a saying are you a friend of Dorothy?
And that was how the white gays would find out

(01:01:23):
if you like other guys or not because of Judy Garland,
you know, somewhere over the rainbow, are you a friend
of Dorothy? So so yeah, so to say someone is
a Judy of yours, that's like, oh, that's just my
good girlfriend. You know, men that are you know, the
butch queens. You know, we we we have the you know,
we can do brunch.

Speaker 3 (01:01:42):
You know.

Speaker 4 (01:01:42):
We it's very much girl time. But we know we're man,
but it's just girl you know, that type of thing.
So that's what that's who our judis are. It's like
your girlfriends, we call them our Judy's. Okay, yeah, but yeah,
it's it's they try to just again skip steps and
a lot of the friendships that we have when you
think about like how far you've come in and things

(01:02:05):
you've gone through, it wasn't anything that have to be forced.
This was just living life and then somewhere along the
line living it together.

Speaker 2 (01:02:14):
But it's so, it's so it's okay to be an associated.

Speaker 4 (01:02:22):
It's okay to be a colleague, it's okay to be
an acquaintance. Because if you're acquainted, that means if I
see you, I'm going, what is that?

Speaker 2 (01:02:30):
What I think it is? What kind of friend are you? Now?

Speaker 4 (01:02:34):
After bloom hm hmm, I'm a friend that it's over
stimulated currently and I'm I'm doing my best to.

Speaker 3 (01:02:53):
To manage because of all the responsibility and the things
that are required of me. Now, Like when I say.

Speaker 4 (01:03:02):
I I just within the past month, I'll say, I
think the only time that I've been alone is when
I'm in the bathroom. So when I have a moment
to myself, it's like, ooh, let me be quiet, and
it's like, what you're doing?

Speaker 3 (01:03:23):
What's going on? How do you feel? This is a whoa?

Speaker 4 (01:03:25):
Let me just because I got to wake up and
do this all over again, you know. So right now
I am the friend that has been pretty much whisked
away by their career and hopefully finding a moment where
I can settle and I can tap back in. Okay, y'all,
what's happening. What's going on?

Speaker 3 (01:03:46):
Because life is happening. I'm happening to.

Speaker 2 (01:03:49):
The world, happening to the world.

Speaker 4 (01:03:53):
Jermaine Riley told me that he was like, you're literally
out here happening.

Speaker 3 (01:03:58):
To the world. I'm happening to.

Speaker 4 (01:04:00):
Which is why anytime I do festivals, I say, yes,
did y'all see.

Speaker 3 (01:04:03):
That durand Bernard happened to Lallapalooza.

Speaker 4 (01:04:06):
I want to make sure that when I do have
my moments of grounding, that I do tap in and
and we are all by the way, we're all entrepreneurs.
We're all out here working for ourselves, trying to build
you know, our different dreams and goals and aspirations. And
so there's an understanding that if we don't talk to
each other for a little while as were working, if

(01:04:29):
I see you every single day, unless we on the
clock doing something we're not doing we're supposed to do.

Speaker 3 (01:04:37):
So this is the this is what we've.

Speaker 4 (01:04:39):
All been grinding for and working for. So it's not
that anyone that has been forgotten about. It's I've been
whisked away for a while because I gotta We were
hitting the ground running now and still independent, still independently.

Speaker 3 (01:04:54):
This is still a village effort. So I am grateful
that the bulk of everybody understands No, Durant is busy.

Speaker 2 (01:05:08):
Let's talk about friends supporting friends for real.

Speaker 3 (01:05:13):
Our friends are not our fans. O.

Speaker 4 (01:05:21):
My cousin Dave Bogan broke that down. And also, we
tend to equate what we do with who we are,
So when someone doesn't like what it is that you do,
you take that as a personal attack. And I'm okay

(01:05:42):
with someone not being a fan of what it is
that I do. But you want support, you don't want
a fan. A fan will be there when it's hot,
and they won't be there when it's not. However, support
is if you have a show and I'm in town,
I'm gonna be there, or at least I'm gonna buy
a ticket to support you. Got merch, I'm gonna get
the merch you know, or I'm gonna just pass pass

(01:06:04):
the word along. If somebody's asking, hey, you know what
a new music or a new artist, Oh, I got
the one just for you.

Speaker 3 (01:06:09):
It's something as simple as that. But we we often
are we.

Speaker 4 (01:06:16):
I guess there's somewhere in in the in the ethos
of the mind is our friends are our fans, and
it's like, no, you have your target audience. But it's
a sweet spot when you can find someone who is
a friend that does something that you do that you're
a fan of. That's a sweet spot because I don't

(01:06:38):
have to You don't have to fake it.

Speaker 3 (01:06:39):
You don't have to.

Speaker 4 (01:06:41):
No, I'm listening to this on my own accord, or
I'm I'm rocking this on my own accord, not just
because it's it's at the at your show and I
have to show that it's there. No, I'm doing this
because I like it. That's a sweet spot, but that's
not everybody's. And I would rather people want to fuck
with me because of my character as a person, not
because of what I do or how I do it.

Speaker 3 (01:07:01):
You know.

Speaker 4 (01:07:02):
So it's important that we know our who our target
audience is. Your friends are not your thing. And also
what you do.

Speaker 3 (01:07:16):
Is not who you are. It is something that you do.
What would who would you be without that?

Speaker 2 (01:07:22):
In terms of our conversation today about relationships, about friendships,
about oh my gosh, comprehension versus communication, friend versus fan,
accountability isn't punishment. I don't forget anything.

Speaker 3 (01:07:37):
Oh, yes, you're keeping it.

Speaker 2 (01:07:39):
Okay, I'm receiving it. If you knew better, finish that
same for me. If I knew better, I would I.

Speaker 4 (01:07:49):
Know then what I know now right now because I'm
in touch with those parts of myself and they remind
me of where I've been, where I want to go,
where I don't want to go. But there always a
reminder that I am alive.

Speaker 3 (01:08:05):
And I'm experiencing this journey as a human being. But yes, and.

Speaker 4 (01:08:13):
Some folks when they say if you know better, you
do better, because folks be knowing better and they want
to do the opposite. So it's when you actually have
a desire yes for.

Speaker 3 (01:08:28):
Better, when you have a longing, a yearning for better,
is when you're actually do better.

Speaker 2 (01:08:35):
I'm very happy that you happen to me.

Speaker 3 (01:08:38):
I love that.

Speaker 2 (01:08:40):
I'm so grateful that you happened to this show. I
appreciate you, I appreciate Sean. Thank you very much, and
just keep being amazing. I won't tell you the best
is yet to come, because this is the best right now,
right now, this is the best. So congratulations on just

(01:09:03):
getting to the top of that mountain. We don't all
get there. Everybody doesn't get there. And you did it,
and you did it with a good village of people,
and you thank them all and you got to show
them love and they were there and you were just
like an inspiration. And then I pray that you get
some more alone time. And that's what I'll leave you with.
A man to all of Duran's village, leave him alone

(01:09:27):
outside the bad He needs a small break. I'm just
the smartest, a pinch until we're on to the next thing.
I appreciate you, Thank you. I'll see you guys next time.
If You Knew Better with Ambergrimes a production of the
Black Effect podcast Network. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit
the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to

(01:09:50):
your favorite shows. Connect with Ambergrimes at Ambergrimes on all platforms,
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You Knew Better with Ambergrimes.