April 30, 2026 • 62 mins
In this episode of Just Heal, Dr. Jay Barnett sits down with actor and martial artist Michael Jai White for a powerful conversation about healing, masculinity, and emotional growth in the Black community. Michael reflects on his life journey, the influence of mentorship, and how trauma and anger can shape behavior if left unaddressed. Together, they explore the balance between strength and vulnerability in men, emphasizing the importance of emotional awareness, presence in family life, and breaking cycles of learned violence.
The conversation also dives into relationships, emotional leadership, and communication, highlighting the challenges men face in expressing themselves and the importance of listening, forgiveness, and accountability. Michael shares personal insights that influenced his creative work, including themes reflected in his film The Secret Between Us, which centers on love, family, and healing. Through honest dialogue, the episode underscores the power of emotional regulation, understanding, and intentional growth in building stronger relationships and healthier communities.
Rate, subscribe, comment and share.
Follow Just Heal on IG:
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Listen
Watch
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to jess Hell with Doctor j a production of
the Black Effect Podcast Network and iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
What's up, good people.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
I am Doctor Jay and we're back for another episode
with just Here with Doctor J Burnett. And today I
am blessed with the opportunity to sit down with a legend,
a hero to me personally because I grew up watching Spawn.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
So we have actor, writer, director, and we all know
man his work in the martial art world. I mean, listen, listen.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Some of y'all was old Steven Seagard, I was all
Michael John White Man, So, my brother, I am so
happy to have today our guest, Michael John White starring
in the film The Secret Between Us Man.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
My brother, welcome, thanks for having me. Listen. You guys
shut your hand. Look, I'm like, man, please don't cut
right of chip.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
No man, brother, listen, Man as somebody man who loves
the movie Spawn. Man, that's when I came to know
you as a young team. And you watched that film
in college all the time it was on DVD and Walmart.
Walmart used to do the two for twenty DVDs, and
(01:09):
so I wouldn't there grabbed that man, And they're so
A huge fan of your work, man, but even more
a huge fan of the life that.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
You lead outside of your heart.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
And so watching your podcast and then just watching you
do interviews, man, and so it's a blessing to have you.
Speaker 4 (01:27):
Man, I'm supremely blessed because you know, I had a
life that it could have gotten the other direction, Yes, sir, Yeah, so.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
When you when you think about that, a life that
could have gone in a direction. I know we were
just kind of talking earlier and you said a seed.
Speaker 4 (01:45):
Yeah, yeah, someone came along. I spoke at my high
school kind of planning the seed. It was a guy
who was a lawyer, and he said something about he
earned his walk and there's something kind of connected with me,
and then planning the seed that made me think, you know,
he could do it.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
I could do it. You know.
Speaker 4 (02:02):
I knew I had street skills and I could probably
survive off of those like a lot of people. But
I thought there was something more, and it was a
there was a something to why I was so angry
and volatile, And what it was is because there was
images that I wanted to be that I hadn't seen,
you know. So another scene was when I saw a
(02:23):
young black, attractive couple moving into a big, old house.
And I said, ah, that's what I want, that's what
I want. I know, education got them that, you know,
and nobody was gonna come repossess that house, you know.
And those images, just those images alone changed my life.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
You know.
Speaker 4 (02:44):
I overnight I started doing my schoolwork. Uh, put myself
up in a higher grade. Uh you know, the kind
of the gifted class, you know, you know, the uh
what do you call them? The advisors was like, no,
(03:04):
you can't do this or whatever. But I'd forge my parents'
signature that you know, that whole thing. And you know,
I ended up having more over one hundred average.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
I would do my.
Speaker 4 (03:17):
Work plus extra credit, just to prove that I could
do it. And my life changed. And later on I
became a teacher at that school before I was an actor. Yeah,
but you know, and I received an award and all
this kind of stuff and kind of a scholarship and
I got this award as this most self improved And
(03:40):
I'll tell you, like, I probably had about twelve to
fifteen shootouts before that, you know. And so my life,
you know, one of the things I say was my
one of my real jobs is going back and planning.
Seems like it was planning for me because I believe
if that man didn't come to my scho cool.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
I wouldn't be sitting here right now.
Speaker 4 (04:01):
Yeah, And so here I am returning to West Dallas
in South oak Cliffe when I would come and over years,
you know, we'd come and speak in those places, and
I've watched things change and get better. The Community Center
in South oak Cliffe, I've watched that develop into something else.
And actually, one of one of the greatest things I
(04:24):
ever really experienced is that a young man that was
at my first speaking.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
At in South oak Cliffe.
Speaker 4 (04:38):
Came back and was an advisor like a counselor, which
was something like twelve years later.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
Yeah, And that was one of the things that told
me I'm doing the right thing.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Let me ask you this two days, I'll go back
to the angle part. But before we go back to that,
how did that feel for you? For that young man,
this is your first speaking engagement and to think that
what was done to you was happening for someone else,
how did that make you feel?
Speaker 4 (05:09):
Yeah? It made me feel amazing, because I mean when
I came back was several years later with the help
of I was more established in everything. And Tony White,
who's a good friend and producer here and Dallas. He's
done a lot of faith based type of movies. He
helped organize this, you know, this tour I was doing,
(05:35):
and a young man in the parking lot seemed to
have like this little secret he was holding. Like I
was wondering, what's over with him? What do you want
to tell me? But he was just kind of saying
tight lipped about it. And after I spoke to the kids,
that's when he told me. He says that first time
he was here, I was one of those kids, And
(05:57):
I said, well, thank you for telling me now, because
if you told me that before I walked in there,
I don't know if I was that you kept it together.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Man.
Speaker 4 (06:05):
That got so emotional behind that, because he was confirmation
that I was doing the right thing, and that was
the thing. I mean, you know, that whole thing if
you if you reach one and I see that thing
reciprocated that it affected him enough that it changed his
life and he came back just like I did, you know,
becoming a teacher in the same place where the seed
(06:29):
was planning for me. That that man, I was kind
of through for yeah a while, man, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
I love that because you know, I love how the
Bible speaks about one plants one waters that gives the
ultimate increase, right, somebody will plant the seed and someone
else will come along the water. But what I also
love about that for you was that there's a story
with Jesus held the ten Leffords and one returned back
(06:59):
to say thank you. I think for us as men,
it's important for us to hear to know when we've
had an impact on someone's life.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
I think it does something to.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Your spirit, man, I think it does something to your
heart and your soul because to think about a young
black boy growing up in New York and dealing with anger.
As I would say from the mental health space, the
majority of black boys have anger issues, and not anger
(07:36):
issues because they're inherently angry, but either something has gone
wrong from.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
A lack thereof, not enough of.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
And and I love that for you because sometimes I
feel like, you know, you know, there's a lot of
great men that have left this.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
World and then the change that they made.
Speaker 4 (08:02):
Oh boy, yeah, definitely that's an understatement, but I mean
you talk about black men in general, I mean nowadays Okay,
everybody's become sophisticated. You know, if you if you speak
harshly toward child, how that may affect that child later?
And you know that trauma was you know, show shows,
(08:23):
what about generations of trauma? Come on, Hold on general,
is there a black man or black human being that
ancestors didn't didn't experience trauma? That's an understatement. And when
we can talk about nowadays how receptive we are to
(08:44):
those things, those so where there's been such a lineage
of black trauma and we to even pretend that we've
navigated around that is ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
It's ridiculous.
Speaker 4 (09:02):
Yeah, So, I mean, yeah, we've all experienced trauma, whether
you recognize it or not, because I mean, you know,
our parents where they came from, and their parents had
it worse than them, you know, so and so you know,
we come from a thing where I knew growing up
you can blame your father or blame your mother for
(09:26):
anything creative with it, and everybody's gonna pat you on
the back. And because you know, it was kind of
like it kind of created this generation of folks who
basically we can scapegoat things and we're not looking at
ourselves and saying, okay, let's forgive our parents.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Let's forgive because we don't.
Speaker 4 (09:48):
Realize what they they were up against, which was crazy
in comparison.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Right, So.
Speaker 4 (09:57):
Let's you know, because sometimes we attribute blame and figure
that's all the work we have to do, and it's not,
you know. So like me and my brothers. My brother
was an engineer, things rolled off his back.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Me.
Speaker 4 (10:13):
I didn't know I was an artist, but I do
know I was volatile and something affected me. I was
ready to tear your head off. I didn't know I
was a director, actor writer. Underneath, all I know is
I was a crazy one in the family who felt
things stronger than anyone.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Else, you know.
Speaker 4 (10:32):
And when you were that sensitive in a harsh area,
what you do with any do this, like with anything
that's fragile. If you got something valuable is fragile, what
you do You protect it. You put it in a
safe right, So I, like so many other men, became
the safe. I build myself up. I'm ready to destroy
(10:56):
anything that threatens anything I care about, right, and I
accept the moniker of the monster, you know, And all
of that is because I'm protecting what's fragile. Really, so
you know just like Okay, I was to portray Mike Tyson. Right,
(11:19):
let's look at Mike Tyson for the baddest cats on
the planet. But he's one of the first people that
will go into tears on camera. So that's those are
two sides of the same coin. And so why would
he build this fortress if it wasn't to protect something
that was inside? And that is indicative of so many
(11:41):
men and people I grew up with, and I knew
the predators, and it's one of the roughest people, the
toughest cats you ever want to meet.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
A lot of.
Speaker 4 (11:52):
Times they harbor the heart of an artists. They could drawn,
they have creativity, and like I said, very much like myself.
It was two sides of the same coin. Right, look
at our young men. You want to take the moniker
of monster. Yeah, I'm just that whatever, you know, the
(12:14):
wrap we grab on to our youth and when we
were our most volatile and impressionable because that anger, it
gives us an outlet for that, right, and yeah, I
want to be I'm a monster. I'll cure you. No,
(12:35):
you're not know you are not what it is. And
it's like you say, you're hard you're a monster. You
do all that stuff, but yet you are willing to
die for your homeboy, for your block, your limited piece
of real estate you don't even own, because that's all
(12:55):
this love that you have in your heart and no
place to put it.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
You gotta hold that bro. No place to put it, Yeah,
no place to put it. And I would even go
follow brother dad. Most of us who would gifted, particularly
have experienced the most abuse, rejection, abandonment, neglect, every predator,
(13:26):
every person that is someone Uh, it's the bully, right.
And I often tell people like when I when I
first started as a as a therapist, I work with
a lot of kids that were, you know, being bullied,
all those different things. And what you realize is that
the bully is being bullied, but he can't fight back
(13:46):
at home to whoever is bullying, especially kids who had
him Dad that was a bully or that was abuse it.
I can't fight Dad back, So I'm gonna go find
someone lesson.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Or you.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
And so when you think about that, it goes back
to what you're saying. None of us are really what
we are portraying. It's really this mechanism that let me
armor up as we call it a maladaptera prosona let
me put on this persona to protect what I'm really
(14:19):
afraid and fearful of. And so I grabbed a gun
because I'm really scared. Yeah, oh yeah, can you talk
about that?
Speaker 4 (14:31):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (14:31):
Absolutely? Yeah.
Speaker 4 (14:34):
Pretty much everything that traumatizes us or is connected to
fear and then in the tools that we're given.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (14:45):
I remember one time I was speaking to I was
a speed I think it was in East Saint Louis,
and there was some administrators at this place. I was
talking at a facility that I was like basically almost
like a young prison type of thing, and somebody, one
(15:06):
of the facilitators was bold enough to ask me why
I thought young black men were so violent, and the
way they framed it was kind of interesting. But I
asked them and just like I will put this out
right now. Well, you know, violence is is introduced when
(15:27):
you're young most of the time as a tool, right,
And I would say, and like I said to this man,
what do you think black parents came up with the
idea to grab a leather belt and whip their children,
not only that, counting out the lashes. Where do you
(15:48):
think that came from? Africa. Oh no, it did not.
It was introduced, was it not. It was introduced in
such a way that you know, it's a tool. So
instead of other ways of dealing with stress or whatever,
it was taught to use violence as a tool as
(16:13):
you know, a certain language, you know, so we clearly
know where that's coming from.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
All right.
Speaker 4 (16:24):
So yeah, so looking at that, I mean, we can
decide when you make yourself knowledgeable of that, do we
want to keep that tradition on? Who's traditional?
Speaker 2 (16:36):
We following? You know?
Speaker 4 (16:39):
So this is I mean, you know, we got the
tools that we've been given, and a lot of times
we we attribute that to love because those who loved
us did this and so and not only that. A
(17:00):
bigger issue I consider that this choice of that I think
it needs to be talked about more these days, is
that we are familiar with this whole we keep each
other down thing. And a lot of people will agree
with that, would you not? You know, we keep each
other down. Soon as one chize arise, we pull each
(17:21):
other down. But the thing that I think we need
to understand is that that whole act came from love.
I'll explain generation as a goal. There were kids who
wanted to evolve, who wanted to learn, They wanted to
learn how to read the folks that loved them. The
(17:43):
other folks said, no, you ain't nothing better. In word,
you ain't no better than nobody else. And they did
that why to keep them alive? Because too many of
those kids wound up hanging from a tree. So what
are you going to do? You've seen countless people say
I'm gonna look this white man in the eye. I
(18:04):
want better for myself, And so did all of these
people that those old folks see their friends meet that
demise just because they wanted something more in their life.
And now those those old folks go to their graves.
But what's left behind. What's left behind is the tendency
(18:29):
to make sure nobody rises. You know, they say, no, no, no,
you ain't no better you you bring you come back
down here. So we do the act without understanding where.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
It came from.
Speaker 4 (18:44):
Yeah, because you know, they couldn't explain where it came from.
They had to tell you, no, you don't. And then
the village says, oh, he's trying to ascend, nah ah,
And the knee jerk reaction is to pull him back down.
But where to come from. It came from love, It
came from keeping you alive. You know, we know emmet
(19:05):
till that story. Now, what do you think those folks,
what is the over line you know message on that? No, no, no,
don't you don't you talk to this white woman. And
there's too many immatils out there, right, So we're coming
from that, and we're mistaking it as our nature to
(19:28):
hate each other and to pull each other down because
young folks are not going to know the difference of
where it's coming from, right, They're not gonna know. They
just see it happen and they go, Okay, this person's ascending.
Let me pull them back down and then wonder why
they have trauma because that's not really where our hearts
(19:48):
are because we love each other, because we've been talking
to love our oppressors. I mean, where what people on
this planets has shown that degree of love if not us?
And so of course there is a conflict, you know,
(20:09):
you know, as you understand cognitive dissidence. So yes, of
course we're gonna be fighting with two different things because
they don't belong together. Because when we say brother, we
mean it, right, we do. And then we got to
juxtapose that with this this trigger of pulling each other
(20:31):
down and thinking that's what we're supposed to do. But
you know, and I know, and I was frustrated with
myself when there was I mean years.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Ago when like another.
Speaker 4 (20:46):
Uh peer of mine who was an actor met with
a certain demise and I felt satisfied. And I looked
at myself and that whoa wait wait wait wait, why
do I feel better?
Speaker 2 (21:00):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (21:00):
And I'm like, no, no, no, no, this is not right.
There needs to be I need to reckon with this.
And I had this was something deep down the side,
and I'm like, I got to exercise this out of
me because I know this ain't This ain't right. I
never want to feel like that again. And I don't
(21:22):
care what conditioning it is.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
No.
Speaker 4 (21:24):
See, I'm not going to live with this, this disease.
It ain't no. And so I want to deal with
it at the source. How on that world am I
feeling better about somebody else who's trying to do what
(21:47):
I'm doing? How they get brought down and I feel
satisfied with that result? And yet another white appeer I
wouldn't feel that way about. Oh when you set with
that and you begin to reckon with it. What was
(22:09):
the route I founded me because because of that conditioning, man,
I'm like it worked on me.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
So you felt like there was some part of you
that was like.
Speaker 4 (22:22):
That was satisfying with another brother who was trying to
do what I was doing, like my competition. I don't care.
I don't look at this not But at the time,
I did not like that. That was not what I
believe as a black man in this struggle. And I
know how we've been taught to you know that divide
(22:46):
and conquered. I know I know too well about that
to be part of that, to be on that side
of it. No, No, that I don't want to go
around and hate my damnself, you know. So that was
that was something that I'm going No, I don't care
what is forever someone else. I can't have that in
(23:09):
my life. And so so you know, but yeah, any
white counterpop part I wouldn't have felt the same way.
But I was satisfied that this this actor had, you know, misfortune. No,
(23:31):
I didn't.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
I did not like that feeling. I do.
Speaker 4 (23:34):
I never feel that way anything since then, you know,
deep down now, when somebody is hurt, I feel the
way I should feel. That's me, he's that I feel
I feel connected to that.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
You know that this is so powerful, Michael, because all
and say that because I have been and am a
therapist for many people from all walks of life, entertainers, actors, athletes,
and all those different things. And someone was asking me, sorry,
why don't you do response videos? And I said I can't.
(24:18):
I said, I come from a family where we were
never allowed to put our mouths on people when they
were having or experiencing misfortune.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
My mother would say, maybe pray for them. People. Don't
put your mouth on those people.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
And what I'm hearing from what you're saying is that
I think there's a part of us when you talk
about the disease. The disease that we have is because
this ideology that I don't want my brother, I don't
want my sister to succeed or to excel and to
(24:53):
a sin above me. Now I have this dissonance, this
lack of agreement with then myself. That it's not that
I'm just divided internally. Now my division permeates to where
I feel I feel good, well, he should because he
don't deserve that, or she should, and I love that
(25:15):
you're talking about this because I say this often when
somebody says, well, how can you just walk up to
a black man you don't know and said that you
love him, I said, because of the work that I've
done internally that to tell him I love you black man,
is me telling me I love you black man, and.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
I love that you are are are sharing that because.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
There has been You know that there's been much work
that has been strategically done systemically on us as a people.
This is why I tell people I feel like God
placed me in this space, because if you can get
your mind right, you can get your life right.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
And if you can get this right, you can change
your perception.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
Because also one of the great neurologists, doctor Oliver Sachs,
He was a pioneer and in neurology, and he often
would say that you don't just see what your eyes,
you also see what your brains. And then he would yeah,
(26:22):
And then he had this idea that perception was a
form of art that was also attached to an act
of creation. So every time you remember or have a memory,
it is reconstructed every time you remember remember it, and
so there's much of our memories that we recall and
(26:44):
I'm not going to say that it's all accurately, but
a lot of it is also colored in the way
that we perceive life, which is why I say he'll
I see different because I can look at someone's brokenness
and there is the heal part of me that understands
how to empathize with my brother. And I like how
(27:07):
you said that it's not about competition, because we're all
on the same fight. With that result and with whould
you become an as an artist? How parallel argutu from
who Michael is as the artist and who Michael is
(27:27):
as a man, Like, how do you combine them with
the reconciliation that you have within yourself on certain things
that as a black man.
Speaker 4 (27:36):
Well, I put a lot of this in my art,
and I wrote, I wrote and directed and started a
movie Western called Outlaw Johnny Black, which I get a
chance to put things that I mean, I have a
you know, I have a movie about forgiveness and redemption
(27:57):
disguised as a revenged movie. And you know, I get
a chance to put some of my heart into these things. Yeah,
I'm blessed to be able to do my own projects
now and you know, you I'll have the body counting,
the action and fighting, but I'll sneak in a whole
(28:19):
bunch of other stuff that if you're percepted, you'll get
the messages. Yeah. So I combine those two and you know,
luckily I can start doing films that where I can
play more of who I am and present those nuances
(28:40):
like the movie that brings Me here, the secret between
us and I get to play a husband and father
and play those nuances that I live, right, but then
also show that the flaws, you know, and hopefully within
(29:01):
that people see something they recognizing themselves and you know,
have these family dramas and what have you. I'll still
keep doing the kick butt stuff.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
Yeah, you know, we gotta have that. Yeah but yeah,
but yeah.
Speaker 4 (29:13):
So I've been very blessed and I'm and like I said,
where I came from, I wasn't supposed to be here. Yeah, right,
So this is just you know, this is like I'm
playing with house money right now.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
I love to say that every day I wake up
up something playing louse money because I think there's such
a My mentors to say it's a privilege to fight.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
And he said every day that you open your eyes.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
Man, It's just this, you know, he was so and
it wasn't this mindset of this optimism you know people
always like, but it was always this honoring that he
saw life. He has such an honor still living, but
he has such an honor to how he saw life.
And and I can appreciate that when you say I'm
(30:02):
playing with house money, because you now get to do
the things that you want to do and create in
the way that you want to create. No.
Speaker 4 (30:11):
Yeah, I mean we can't hide from who we really are.
And I know what I'm capable of, right, and if
I do less than that, I'm not going to be
a happy person, you know. So I get a chance
to operate at my maximum capacity. So it's one of
(30:31):
those things that takes care of itself. And it's not
for any competition or just to try to get into
any type of status. Just me doing what I feel
like I'm supposed to do and be the servant I'm
supposed to be so I can live honestly, you know,
(30:52):
because if I did less than that, I would not
be balanced or.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
Happy, you know when you talk by balance, right.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
That was something I noticed in the film, the segrete
between us the character.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
Jack that you play. Uh, when he returns home. Uh,
you know you don't see him ever go back to
work again. Yeah. And and and what.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
What I gather from that, because I'm always conceptualizing thing.
When I gather from that that home became more important
than work? Oh yeah, oh yeah. And when you think
about the state of the family and as a husband,
how important for men to not just be home but
(31:45):
you see Jack now has to be emotionally present. How
important is it for a father, husband and a man
to be emotionally present at home?
Speaker 2 (31:56):
You know?
Speaker 4 (31:56):
In that case? Uh, like in the movie, it's the
nature of a man. You you, I mean, like our superpower,
I always say, is securing the home, protecting our family.
And where in the movie, prior to that that looked
like providing financially and what have you. Well, he's gotten
(32:23):
to a place where providing and you know, taking care
of the family became being present. And it's just the
nature and what we're supposed to do. Okay, it might
look different at different times, So that leadership had to
be you know, within the walls of the home at
(32:44):
that time. And you know, I feel like that's that's
what you you know that's how we operate in our
best capacity.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
We you know, uh, you know he you know, he's
home and now he's deal with this issue. You and
you're talking about this.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
Uh. You know what I love about the film. There
was so many stories being told in more it was
emotional for me to watch it, if I'm honest, because
I know what it's like to go through a miscarriage
and uh, that loss, uh sometimes isn't greed for men.
(33:24):
And the part where Jack is really been open about
how we don't get that as men. Right Usually when
there's loss, it's all the attention is, rightfully so given
to the woman. Yes, yes, and and man, And I'm
(33:45):
just being honest. I was sitting up in my bed
watching on my laptop and when you went into that
that just you know, I lost too.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
Mm hmm. Oh.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
Man, I had to pause it to wipe my eyes
because I work with.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
A lot of brothers.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
Yeah that often say, man, she's going through this, and
she went through that.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
But brother I was in it too.
Speaker 4 (34:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
Absolutely.
Speaker 4 (34:17):
And then there's a lot of men who you know,
we got big shows for a reason, and that rightly,
so we're supposed to put ourselves second. I think the
in a lot of the cases, of course, because our children,
our wives, you know, especially our wives. I say this,
there's super hero quality. There's superpower is love and nurturing.
(34:43):
And you know they're emotional, just as our kids are.
And when you are an emotional person and that's what
you used to be, we have to listen on another
level beyond our egos and what have you, not the surface,
but what's really being said, because anybody under a strong
(35:04):
emotion should be given that grace to not say the
perfect thing, not say it perfectly. They're supposed to be demonstrative.
They're supposed to exaggerate, and you, as a man, should
know better than to listen to the exaggeration. Wanting to
(35:25):
be right.
Speaker 2 (35:27):
Now that's wisdom, Yeah, that's wisdom, not not. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (35:31):
So no, I know what you mean. You're gonna say
you always did. And if I'm sitting there thinking about
the time that I you know I didn't, or trying
to find a flaw in your no, I'm not doing
my I'm not doing my job. I should be listening,
you know, if somebody's traumatic, if they're going through something,
(35:52):
you got to listen harder. You can't be thinking about
when I'm going to jump in, you.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
Know and be right.
Speaker 4 (35:57):
Nah, don't be right, you know. I mean my thing
is I'm going to prove you right before proving you wrong.
So I want to listen and know, Okay, that's what
you mean. You know, that's what you mean.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
I'm hearing you.
Speaker 1 (36:12):
There's somebody's going to be watching that and saying, brother, wife,
you're fifty eight and you got a lot of years
of experience to make that conceptualization. Right to listen because well,
as you were talking here, you said, well, our shoulders
(36:32):
are broad for a reason. We're supposed to be second.
But what do you do when you are putting yourself
second or the first to her?
Speaker 2 (36:42):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (36:43):
Yeah, so yeah, let me continue with that thought. Yeah,
like we're supposed to do that, right. But the trick
is knowing that if we if we take on this
trauma and not find the balance of expressing ourselves, we're
(37:05):
going to be less than as being providers of security
and and you know, uh, the leadership in our family
because we're we're traumatized and we're you know, we're hurting.
But that's the trick, is Okay, you don't you if
(37:29):
if this discussion is going on, you shut up, listen,
and you pick a time that you have to now
when you come with your your concern, be wise and
know when to do that right and how to Uh.
(37:50):
You don't expect somebody to understand when they're bringing you
with their trauma. That's not the time, right, you know,
you sit down and say, baby, this is important to me.
You can't when she's in the listening mode, you know,
And that's that's.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
Not that's not now my for this third this this
audience up because most brothers are saying, when it is
my turn to share my grievance and to share whatever
bothers me, I am now burden after I share to
(38:27):
console her about what I share because how it made
her feel. So, I mean, I know, but but what
would you say to the brothers who are saying, brother,
I am going.
Speaker 2 (38:39):
To her to share what my traumas or what my
burden is.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
But by the time I get through, I now having
to deal with the emotions of what she feels about
what I share.
Speaker 4 (38:58):
What it is it I feel like this it's it's
like it's a it feels cutting dry to me. Because
if you're not able to hear me I'm gonna stop right, Uh,
and you got to really be able to I mean,
yeah here, yeah, big shoulders for a reason. And and
(39:23):
sometimes you're gonna have to be able to know how
to uh, how to express this and avoid the landmines.
You ain't got no choice. I'm sorry, there's no choice.
So you either, I mean, I'm I'm I'm concerned. I'm
(39:44):
like very uh mission oriented. The mission is for you
to hear what I'm saying. If you don't hear what
I'm saying, there's a problem here, okay. And you know
if somebody's saying, oh, she ain't here some kind of way,
you're treading the emotional part. And so it's I can't
(40:10):
I you know, I don't know if I've I gotta say.
I know I've had to be able to do that.
What we got like for you, I'll say it. I
like your parriage. Well, but this way, I know my
wife for twenty nine years, and we've had all but
three or maybe four arguments. Pauls I'm not playing she
(40:33):
right there? Paul's am I lying? Is she here? She's sleep?
She went to sleep, and you know you don't say that,
so she he ain't she didn't result.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
So so, so that's thirty almost thirty years. Yeah, arguments, okay,
but you get as a young man today. Give me
the formula.
Speaker 4 (40:59):
I'm telling you that only the times we had the
arguments is when we both were emotional, and those things
might have lasted about half an hour because I was
I was emotional, she was emotional. We were both in
and at the same time. I couldn't hear each other.
Speaker 2 (41:14):
Right, But I.
Speaker 4 (41:18):
Exercise this with friends everything else. And if I get
to a point where this person can't really hear me,
my thing is okay, if you become emotional, you lost already.
So as the man, don't become emotional, you just can't
do it because I can tell I can tell you that,
can you you know, can you please pass me the salt?
But I can say could you please pass me the salt?
(41:41):
Or that's that's Oh. All I did was ask me
you pass me the salt. But I'm not realizing the
emotion underneath it. Right, if something says under a high emotion,
just like the same way, I gotta listen when she goes.
You never say that, you never am like she don't
mean that she means often I do this often.
Speaker 2 (41:59):
I do you know right.
Speaker 4 (42:00):
Now, if her mind is you know, it's here, like,
I baby, you're okay, Yeah, I'm fine. Yeah, I'm gonna
fall for that. No, I know she ain't fine. I'm
not gonna say, well, you don't sound like you know.
I'm gonna I'm gonna sneak around the back door and
be like, oh, so you talked to mom today, Yeah
she was, I'm gonna do my detail.
Speaker 2 (42:23):
My brother, brother, my brother. That's wisdom. That's wisdom.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
So you're putting it in the palm of your hand,
carefully holding it.
Speaker 4 (42:31):
Yes, Hey, like I said, we got big shoulders. We
know we could do better. We could do like, shame
on you if you didn't know how to circumvent. You're
a lady and explain, Hey baby, I need you to
understand this, okay. And even right there if it's like okay, oh,
(42:52):
this ain't the time. This ain't the time, because if
if emotion is rearing its head, it ain't gonna get
no better. So I'm I'm like, no, we're gonna talk
about this and oh no, okay, okay, I listen, you're ready,
you know, don't take it so serious, you know, So
there's all these different things, all these nuances. But shame
(43:14):
on you if you don't know you're a woman better
than to know when to bring something to it.
Speaker 2 (43:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
Now I'm looking at my camera, you looking yours. Now,
y'all heard what he said? Same old you, good brother. Yeah,
I'm gonna say, shame old you. Good system. If y'all
don't know each other. And I think that is the
biggest dilemma that we have today, may relationship.
Speaker 4 (43:36):
We grow up with so much game, fellas, we grow
up with so much game that it's shame on you.
If you don't know how and when to express yourself
to your woman without triggering something. You know, then you
got to work on your game.
Speaker 2 (43:55):
You know.
Speaker 5 (43:56):
It's it's we're gonna bow on this because hey, we
all have We all had mothers right, and we knew,
we knew how to We knew how to work our
mothers like where we couldn't work our fathers that way.
Speaker 4 (44:11):
We knew how to work our mothers. Okay, we knew.
Come on now, So but if it's not in your
goal to be right or whatever, and you if your
goal is listen, I need you to understand this. You know,
here's how I'm feeling. So I want that grace that
(44:31):
I give you to listen, just I want you to
feel a lot of the time, a lot of times
the woman doesn't want logic from you. They want you
to listen, right, say that. A lot of times the
women don't want logic from you. They want you to listen.
That's it, right, that's so ven They should understand when
(44:55):
you honored them and respect your relationship well enough that
you took the time which is a thing, a very
feminine thing to do, to say listen, I want you
to hear me. They can recognize that effort because that's
in their wheelhouse.
Speaker 2 (45:12):
Right.
Speaker 4 (45:13):
So when you do that and say, hey, you know,
I just you know, I want to go. I don't
want to feel like I have to edit myself. I
want you to know the true me I want. This
is for the sake of our relationship whatever. And before
it was not the time for me to do this
because I was listening to you. But I need you
(45:33):
to hear me. Okay, there's you gotta do. You do
you gotta do that without hitting the land mines. You
know what I mean basically, And shame on you if
you don't know how to do that?
Speaker 1 (45:47):
Man, I have two more questions to end with because
I know you have a busy day, man, but this
is the man you're giving out some wisdom that this
is insight, because this is also what a lot of
men don't get. And I think when we as men
begin to understand that we're just as emotional as our
(46:10):
counterpart women. But it's the way that we express it
and manage it and understand it. And and I tell man,
when you learn how to regulate your emotions, I can't
stand what people said, Well, you know, don't match brothers.
I'm telling you, no match a woman's energy. It is temporary.
(46:36):
Don't match it. Let her come down and then you
can talk. But you're right though, when but when, but
when you both escually.
Speaker 4 (46:45):
No, forget it, forget it. You gotta stop. But I got,
I gotta, I gotta keep it a hundred. I will
never say we're just as emotional as a woman.
Speaker 2 (46:56):
No, man, no, give me, give me your logic.
Speaker 4 (47:01):
Okay, you have to play a board game, or you
played taboo or trip men versus the women women's term.
Speaker 2 (47:14):
Men.
Speaker 4 (47:14):
It's like we calm with it, right, We're not emotional
like the emotional. Look at just look at the world.
Look look at our entertainment world. Look at everything that's
exposed to us. Look at basketball, look at every look
at everything. You know, we are more meticulous and thinking
(47:35):
about these things because we have to be in war
and everything else. You have to not be the most emotional.
Men that we know in society are considered what crazy
because because logic is the opposite of crazy. Right, So
(48:02):
it's like a lot of people say, here's a little
little tid if you want to win or if you
want to talk about this, and it's kind of controversial
when you say we are all women have some crazy
in them, right, That might ruffle some feathers. But then
when you ask them and okay, think about your friend group.
Is your friends? What you say your friends are crazy?
(48:25):
A lot of women will go, yeah, I've seen my friend,
each one of my friends be a little craziert. How
about your moms? Everybody that the mother? Have you seen
your mother be crazy?
Speaker 2 (48:35):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (48:36):
But then you say about the father. When you say
about your your male friends, there's a lot of men
that are so logical they're boring. So we can't start
saying the majority of men are crazy or just or emotional.
I'm just saying the emotional men, most of them. Emotional
(49:00):
men are kind of.
Speaker 2 (49:01):
I'm gonna say this is emotional men are very violent, dude.
Speaker 1 (49:05):
It's crazy. Emotional men are very violent. So I'm gonna
say this. From working with a lot of men in
the penal system and watching young black boys who struggle
to regulate their emotions, what you see is that your
(49:26):
inability to regulate your emotions will always warrant a reaction
versus a response. The reaction is knee jerk, and the
response is I'm able to process it says now, I
done stepped on Michael J. White shoe. Okay, I've stepped
(49:50):
on micro'shoe. I am not a martial art expert. I
don't And the process is like, let me apologize to
this good brother because I don't have I don't have
time to be in the hospital.
Speaker 2 (50:05):
The reaction is.
Speaker 1 (50:07):
Oh, you're still on my shoot the emotions and I
see so many men and going back to what we
were speaking about earlier, so many men in ability. For example,
you see this in the film. His emotions drove him
without thinking, I'm much just pop up oh yeah, yeah,
(50:31):
with no thought, with the exception. I mean, with the
expectation of you with open arms and so uh and
and again and and and this makes a great conversation. Look,
I know we run out of time, but this, this
last question I want to ask you when you think
about the film the secret between us, there's forgiveness, there's infidelity,
(50:57):
there's reconciliation.
Speaker 2 (50:59):
Uh, there's anger, there's a resientment. What what do you hope.
Speaker 1 (51:09):
And the caregiver man was, oh, she's my favorite.
Speaker 2 (51:13):
And I can't feel my weight, but she is my
favorite because of to me she was glued. Yes, yeah,
what do you want people to get out of this field? Man?
Speaker 4 (51:26):
I so want them to see see they're themselves in it.
I want them to understand the power of forgiveness and.
Speaker 2 (51:42):
And how.
Speaker 4 (51:44):
You know, you see people trying to get better, you know,
and and hold on to family and really what really matters.
And I don't want to give away too much, but
you see the power that Lisa Arundelle shows in that
(52:08):
a lot of times, especially in these days, social media
is encouraging you to default to the most negative reactions
to things, and you're not seeing enough things that say no, no, no,
(52:28):
fighting for family and love is the deeper meaning instead
of saying, you know, I'm done with this. A lot
of us who grew up with this dysfunction knew this.
(52:50):
I'm done, I'm cutting out. It's a lot of our
broken homes came from that. But again they came from
people who've had just such a history of trauma. Right,
and again, us embracing tearing each other down, and then
(53:19):
society embracing beating up on the man, you know, kind
of like so many things have a narrative of woman good,
man bad, you know, and that's become very traveling and
(53:39):
in vogue to just beat up on man. And you know,
I would love here. Of course, in the music industry
and everything else, and in movies, and yeah, it's easy
to to hit on negative stuff because people respond, you know,
(54:08):
it's very easy. It's cheap.
Speaker 2 (54:10):
It's cheap.
Speaker 4 (54:12):
I'm gonna have a show about bickering, and so people
can just you know, kind of live. I can't see
through that bicker, bigger bicker. And then when you talk
about us loving each other beyond that, yeah, people are
not in conditioned to embrace that as much as which
(54:32):
is a problem because we've had quite enough of that. Yeah,
breaking us down, dividing and concer it's enough of that,
you know, and deep down we talk about how can
this is? We are suffering from those things because deep
(54:56):
down in our hearts, like I was talking about, young
men dying for each other because they have this love
that they can express it in other ways, you know,
dying for their block, dying for their their set. You know,
(55:17):
we're we're constantly running into this imbalance and we when
we are the people who have shown love unparalleled in
this world over and over and talk to hate each
other and the media trying to do that, you know.
(55:37):
So I want I want people to look at this
and start seeing the truth of what we are and
who we are and who we want to be.
Speaker 2 (55:46):
That's what I want.
Speaker 1 (55:50):
When you think about to close out, when you think
about I asked every guests this question. Ah, you know
this podcast is centered around healing. When you think about
that word healing, you think about to make better, to
restore the renew.
Speaker 2 (56:07):
For you. You had a journey.
Speaker 1 (56:10):
From coming from New York and now you are, you know,
just a legend. And I'm sure that your journey to
getting here was a journey. When you think about healing,
what does that mean for you?
Speaker 4 (56:28):
This means stepping into who you are meant to be
and shedding those negative things that you're you are conditioned
to grab onto and then start to break down.
Speaker 2 (56:46):
If I feel bad?
Speaker 4 (56:47):
Why you know, as a a black community, we're not
taught to reach out to get help, therapeutic help. You know,
if your eyesight goes bad, where do you go? You
go to an optometrist. Ears go bad, ears, nose and throat.
If your spirit is bad, if you are having mental
(57:11):
issues problems, well go to somebody who specializes in that.
If not, you know, at least go to folks like yourself,
because that's what we're here for, you know. And you
know my thing is I feel like you know when
(57:31):
you just there's one thing I lean with you which
helps me and change a lot in my life. And
I say this, any trauma, any anger, any emotion is triggered,
and the first thing happens is you're going to ask
(57:52):
a question what, when?
Speaker 2 (57:54):
Why? How? Right?
Speaker 4 (57:56):
And so if you're in a traffic jam, you're angry
because you don't know, You're like, why is? And then
you get up ahead and you see there was a
car accident and you're not angry anymore. Right, Well, you
can get in a traffic jam today and you have
a choice to be angry or not. But there's a
(58:18):
certain point where you go, this is not a conspiracy
against me. Then it's gotta a logical answer. And when
you get a frustrated and you go, what, let me
concern myself with what the fact is? This is a
logical answer. I just don't know what it is. Right.
(58:40):
And every time you are angry and you ask yourself why, stop,
don't be emotional and concern yourself with the reason why,
because you probably know it. But of course, like I say,
you're gonna be in thousands of traffic jams and feel
the same way and get mad every time. That's your decision.
(59:01):
But you start asking yourself, why am I feeling this? Why?
What is making me upset? What is making me discontent?
And you stop and go now, let me try to
concentrate on the answer to that. And I think that
is the thing that's going to possibly lead you to
(59:25):
healthier way of being.
Speaker 2 (59:29):
My brother, I don't really state you man, Listen, guys
legend Michael John White.
Speaker 1 (59:38):
The movie new movie he has coming out, The Secret
between Us, very powerful movie. Very powerful message on forgiveness,
very powerful movie on restoration. I truly think that we're
in the season in today's society where we need films
to speak to where we are, films.
Speaker 2 (59:59):
That are healing.
Speaker 1 (01:00:00):
As I watched this film, it's definitely healing, very cautharitic,
and I think we need more messages. As he shared,
that also allows us to see more love and also
to see what does grace looks like in real time.
None of us are perfect. We're all on this journey
and we're all healing some parts of us, making new
(01:00:21):
some part of you. And maybe that's therapy for some
of you. Maybe that's getting counseling, coaching for some of you.
You know, there's so many different healing modalities that you
can use. But I encourage you to please go see
this film. This is April third. April third is in
theaters everywhere. April third, The Secret between Starr and Michael
(01:00:44):
John White.
Speaker 2 (01:00:45):
I'm telling you this is this listen. I'm not shamed
to say it.
Speaker 1 (01:00:49):
I was in tears because of the message that would
so deeply carried out by the characters and and uh
and and it's just a real message that we need today.
On what does it look like to keep the family
together when uncertainty happens. Listen, you guys know this healing
(01:01:12):
conversation can always continue. Subscribe, like, share, and again, remember,
healing is a journey. Some of you are just starting out.
Some of you have been on the journey for a while.
Remember it's not long, it's not short. It's necessary. I
will say that if you want to become better, because
(01:01:34):
they said it's about shedding, and hopefully we can continue
to shed to become more of who God created us
to be. Healing is a journey and wholeness is a destination.
Until next time, I'm doctor J. And this has been
another episode of Just Here with Doctor J. Just Here
with Doctor J, a production of the Black Effect Podcast Network.
For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
(01:01:58):
or wherever.
Speaker 2 (01:01:59):
You listen to your favorite shows. And you can follow
me at King J.
Speaker 1 (01:02:03):
Barnett on Instagram and x and follow us on YouTube.
Speaker 2 (01:02:07):
Just Here, Doctor J.
Welcome to jess Hell with Doctor j a production of
the Black Effect Podcast Network and iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
What's up, good people.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
I am Doctor Jay and we're back for another episode
with just Here with Doctor J Burnett. And today I
am blessed with the opportunity to sit down with a legend,
a hero to me personally because I grew up watching Spawn.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
So we have actor, writer, director, and we all know
man his work in the martial art world. I mean, listen, listen.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Some of y'all was old Steven Seagard, I was all
Michael John White Man, So, my brother, I am so
happy to have today our guest, Michael John White starring
in the film The Secret Between Us Man.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
My brother, welcome, thanks for having me. Listen. You guys
shut your hand. Look, I'm like, man, please don't cut
right of chip.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
No man, brother, listen, Man as somebody man who loves
the movie Spawn. Man, that's when I came to know
you as a young team. And you watched that film
in college all the time it was on DVD and Walmart.
Walmart used to do the two for twenty DVDs, and
(01:09):
so I wouldn't there grabbed that man, And they're so
A huge fan of your work, man, but even more
a huge fan of the life that.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
You lead outside of your heart.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
And so watching your podcast and then just watching you
do interviews, man, and so it's a blessing to have you.
Speaker 4 (01:27):
Man, I'm supremely blessed because you know, I had a
life that it could have gotten the other direction, Yes, sir, Yeah, so.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
When you when you think about that, a life that
could have gone in a direction. I know we were
just kind of talking earlier and you said a seed.
Speaker 4 (01:45):
Yeah, yeah, someone came along. I spoke at my high
school kind of planning the seed. It was a guy
who was a lawyer, and he said something about he
earned his walk and there's something kind of connected with me,
and then planning the seed that made me think, you know,
he could do it.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
I could do it. You know.
Speaker 4 (02:02):
I knew I had street skills and I could probably
survive off of those like a lot of people. But
I thought there was something more, and it was a
there was a something to why I was so angry
and volatile, And what it was is because there was
images that I wanted to be that I hadn't seen,
you know. So another scene was when I saw a
(02:23):
young black, attractive couple moving into a big, old house.
And I said, ah, that's what I want, that's what
I want. I know, education got them that, you know,
and nobody was gonna come repossess that house, you know.
And those images, just those images alone changed my life.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
You know.
Speaker 4 (02:44):
I overnight I started doing my schoolwork. Uh, put myself
up in a higher grade. Uh you know, the kind
of the gifted class, you know, you know, the uh
what do you call them? The advisors was like, no,
(03:04):
you can't do this or whatever. But I'd forge my parents'
signature that you know, that whole thing. And you know,
I ended up having more over one hundred average.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
I would do my.
Speaker 4 (03:17):
Work plus extra credit, just to prove that I could
do it. And my life changed. And later on I
became a teacher at that school before I was an actor. Yeah,
but you know, and I received an award and all
this kind of stuff and kind of a scholarship and
I got this award as this most self improved And
(03:40):
I'll tell you, like, I probably had about twelve to
fifteen shootouts before that, you know. And so my life,
you know, one of the things I say was my
one of my real jobs is going back and planning.
Seems like it was planning for me because I believe
if that man didn't come to my scho cool.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
I wouldn't be sitting here right now.
Speaker 4 (04:01):
Yeah, And so here I am returning to West Dallas
in South oak Cliffe when I would come and over years,
you know, we'd come and speak in those places, and
I've watched things change and get better. The Community Center
in South oak Cliffe, I've watched that develop into something else.
And actually, one of one of the greatest things I
(04:24):
ever really experienced is that a young man that was
at my first speaking.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
At in South oak Cliffe.
Speaker 4 (04:38):
Came back and was an advisor like a counselor, which
was something like twelve years later.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
Yeah, And that was one of the things that told
me I'm doing the right thing.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Let me ask you this two days, I'll go back
to the angle part. But before we go back to that,
how did that feel for you? For that young man,
this is your first speaking engagement and to think that
what was done to you was happening for someone else,
how did that make you feel?
Speaker 4 (05:09):
Yeah? It made me feel amazing, because I mean when
I came back was several years later with the help
of I was more established in everything. And Tony White,
who's a good friend and producer here and Dallas. He's
done a lot of faith based type of movies. He
helped organize this, you know, this tour I was doing,
(05:35):
and a young man in the parking lot seemed to
have like this little secret he was holding. Like I
was wondering, what's over with him? What do you want
to tell me? But he was just kind of saying
tight lipped about it. And after I spoke to the kids,
that's when he told me. He says that first time
he was here, I was one of those kids, And
(05:57):
I said, well, thank you for telling me now, because
if you told me that before I walked in there,
I don't know if I was that you kept it together.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Man.
Speaker 4 (06:05):
That got so emotional behind that, because he was confirmation
that I was doing the right thing, and that was
the thing. I mean, you know, that whole thing if
you if you reach one and I see that thing
reciprocated that it affected him enough that it changed his
life and he came back just like I did, you know,
becoming a teacher in the same place where the seed
(06:29):
was planning for me. That that man, I was kind
of through for yeah a while, man, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
I love that because you know, I love how the
Bible speaks about one plants one waters that gives the
ultimate increase, right, somebody will plant the seed and someone
else will come along the water. But what I also
love about that for you was that there's a story
with Jesus held the ten Leffords and one returned back
(06:59):
to say thank you. I think for us as men,
it's important for us to hear to know when we've
had an impact on someone's life.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
I think it does something to.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Your spirit, man, I think it does something to your
heart and your soul because to think about a young
black boy growing up in New York and dealing with anger.
As I would say from the mental health space, the
majority of black boys have anger issues, and not anger
(07:36):
issues because they're inherently angry, but either something has gone
wrong from.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
A lack thereof, not enough of.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
And and I love that for you because sometimes I
feel like, you know, you know, there's a lot of
great men that have left this.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
World and then the change that they made.
Speaker 4 (08:02):
Oh boy, yeah, definitely that's an understatement, but I mean
you talk about black men in general, I mean nowadays Okay,
everybody's become sophisticated. You know, if you if you speak
harshly toward child, how that may affect that child later?
And you know that trauma was you know, show shows,
(08:23):
what about generations of trauma? Come on, Hold on general,
is there a black man or black human being that
ancestors didn't didn't experience trauma? That's an understatement. And when
we can talk about nowadays how receptive we are to
(08:44):
those things, those so where there's been such a lineage
of black trauma and we to even pretend that we've
navigated around that is ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
It's ridiculous.
Speaker 4 (09:02):
Yeah, So, I mean, yeah, we've all experienced trauma, whether
you recognize it or not, because I mean, you know,
our parents where they came from, and their parents had
it worse than them, you know, so and so you know,
we come from a thing where I knew growing up
you can blame your father or blame your mother for
(09:26):
anything creative with it, and everybody's gonna pat you on
the back. And because you know, it was kind of
like it kind of created this generation of folks who
basically we can scapegoat things and we're not looking at
ourselves and saying, okay, let's forgive our parents.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Let's forgive because we don't.
Speaker 4 (09:48):
Realize what they they were up against, which was crazy
in comparison.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Right, So.
Speaker 4 (09:57):
Let's you know, because sometimes we attribute blame and figure
that's all the work we have to do, and it's not,
you know. So like me and my brothers. My brother
was an engineer, things rolled off his back.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Me.
Speaker 4 (10:13):
I didn't know I was an artist, but I do
know I was volatile and something affected me. I was
ready to tear your head off. I didn't know I
was a director, actor writer. Underneath, all I know is
I was a crazy one in the family who felt
things stronger than anyone.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Else, you know.
Speaker 4 (10:32):
And when you were that sensitive in a harsh area,
what you do with any do this, like with anything
that's fragile. If you got something valuable is fragile, what
you do You protect it. You put it in a
safe right, So I, like so many other men, became
the safe. I build myself up. I'm ready to destroy
(10:56):
anything that threatens anything I care about, right, and I
accept the moniker of the monster, you know, And all
of that is because I'm protecting what's fragile. Really, so
you know just like Okay, I was to portray Mike Tyson. Right,
(11:19):
let's look at Mike Tyson for the baddest cats on
the planet. But he's one of the first people that
will go into tears on camera. So that's those are
two sides of the same coin. And so why would
he build this fortress if it wasn't to protect something
that was inside? And that is indicative of so many
(11:41):
men and people I grew up with, and I knew
the predators, and it's one of the roughest people, the
toughest cats you ever want to meet.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
A lot of.
Speaker 4 (11:52):
Times they harbor the heart of an artists. They could drawn,
they have creativity, and like I said, very much like myself.
It was two sides of the same coin. Right, look
at our young men. You want to take the moniker
of monster. Yeah, I'm just that whatever, you know, the
(12:14):
wrap we grab on to our youth and when we
were our most volatile and impressionable because that anger, it
gives us an outlet for that, right, and yeah, I
want to be I'm a monster. I'll cure you. No,
(12:35):
you're not know you are not what it is. And
it's like you say, you're hard you're a monster. You
do all that stuff, but yet you are willing to
die for your homeboy, for your block, your limited piece
of real estate you don't even own, because that's all
(12:55):
this love that you have in your heart and no
place to put it.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
You gotta hold that bro. No place to put it, Yeah,
no place to put it. And I would even go
follow brother dad. Most of us who would gifted, particularly
have experienced the most abuse, rejection, abandonment, neglect, every predator,
(13:26):
every person that is someone Uh, it's the bully, right.
And I often tell people like when I when I
first started as a as a therapist, I work with
a lot of kids that were, you know, being bullied,
all those different things. And what you realize is that
the bully is being bullied, but he can't fight back
(13:46):
at home to whoever is bullying, especially kids who had
him Dad that was a bully or that was abuse it.
I can't fight Dad back, So I'm gonna go find
someone lesson.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Or you.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
And so when you think about that, it goes back
to what you're saying. None of us are really what
we are portraying. It's really this mechanism that let me
armor up as we call it a maladaptera prosona let
me put on this persona to protect what I'm really
(14:19):
afraid and fearful of. And so I grabbed a gun
because I'm really scared. Yeah, oh yeah, can you talk
about that?
Speaker 4 (14:31):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (14:31):
Absolutely? Yeah.
Speaker 4 (14:34):
Pretty much everything that traumatizes us or is connected to
fear and then in the tools that we're given.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (14:45):
I remember one time I was speaking to I was
a speed I think it was in East Saint Louis,
and there was some administrators at this place. I was
talking at a facility that I was like basically almost
like a young prison type of thing, and somebody, one
(15:06):
of the facilitators was bold enough to ask me why
I thought young black men were so violent, and the
way they framed it was kind of interesting. But I
asked them and just like I will put this out
right now. Well, you know, violence is is introduced when
(15:27):
you're young most of the time as a tool, right,
And I would say, and like I said to this man,
what do you think black parents came up with the
idea to grab a leather belt and whip their children,
not only that, counting out the lashes. Where do you
(15:48):
think that came from? Africa. Oh no, it did not.
It was introduced, was it not. It was introduced in
such a way that you know, it's a tool. So
instead of other ways of dealing with stress or whatever,
it was taught to use violence as a tool as
(16:13):
you know, a certain language, you know, so we clearly
know where that's coming from.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
All right.
Speaker 4 (16:24):
So yeah, so looking at that, I mean, we can
decide when you make yourself knowledgeable of that, do we
want to keep that tradition on? Who's traditional?
Speaker 2 (16:36):
We following? You know?
Speaker 4 (16:39):
So this is I mean, you know, we got the
tools that we've been given, and a lot of times
we we attribute that to love because those who loved
us did this and so and not only that. A
(17:00):
bigger issue I consider that this choice of that I think
it needs to be talked about more these days, is
that we are familiar with this whole we keep each
other down thing. And a lot of people will agree
with that, would you not? You know, we keep each
other down. Soon as one chize arise, we pull each
(17:21):
other down. But the thing that I think we need
to understand is that that whole act came from love.
I'll explain generation as a goal. There were kids who
wanted to evolve, who wanted to learn, They wanted to
learn how to read the folks that loved them. The
(17:43):
other folks said, no, you ain't nothing better. In word,
you ain't no better than nobody else. And they did
that why to keep them alive? Because too many of
those kids wound up hanging from a tree. So what
are you going to do? You've seen countless people say
I'm gonna look this white man in the eye. I
(18:04):
want better for myself, And so did all of these
people that those old folks see their friends meet that
demise just because they wanted something more in their life.
And now those those old folks go to their graves.
But what's left behind. What's left behind is the tendency
(18:29):
to make sure nobody rises. You know, they say, no, no, no,
you ain't no better you you bring you come back
down here. So we do the act without understanding where.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
It came from.
Speaker 4 (18:44):
Yeah, because you know, they couldn't explain where it came from.
They had to tell you, no, you don't. And then
the village says, oh, he's trying to ascend, nah ah,
And the knee jerk reaction is to pull him back down.
But where to come from. It came from love, It
came from keeping you alive. You know, we know emmet
(19:05):
till that story. Now, what do you think those folks,
what is the over line you know message on that? No, no, no,
don't you don't you talk to this white woman. And
there's too many immatils out there, right, So we're coming
from that, and we're mistaking it as our nature to
(19:28):
hate each other and to pull each other down because
young folks are not going to know the difference of
where it's coming from, right, They're not gonna know. They
just see it happen and they go, Okay, this person's ascending.
Let me pull them back down and then wonder why
they have trauma because that's not really where our hearts
(19:48):
are because we love each other, because we've been talking
to love our oppressors. I mean, where what people on
this planets has shown that degree of love if not us?
And so of course there is a conflict, you know,
(20:09):
you know, as you understand cognitive dissidence. So yes, of
course we're gonna be fighting with two different things because
they don't belong together. Because when we say brother, we
mean it, right, we do. And then we got to
juxtapose that with this this trigger of pulling each other
(20:31):
down and thinking that's what we're supposed to do. But
you know, and I know, and I was frustrated with
myself when there was I mean years.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Ago when like another.
Speaker 4 (20:46):
Uh peer of mine who was an actor met with
a certain demise and I felt satisfied. And I looked
at myself and that whoa wait wait wait wait, why
do I feel better?
Speaker 2 (21:00):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (21:00):
And I'm like, no, no, no, no, this is not right.
There needs to be I need to reckon with this.
And I had this was something deep down the side,
and I'm like, I got to exercise this out of
me because I know this ain't This ain't right. I
never want to feel like that again. And I don't
(21:22):
care what conditioning it is.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
No.
Speaker 4 (21:24):
See, I'm not going to live with this, this disease.
It ain't no. And so I want to deal with
it at the source. How on that world am I
feeling better about somebody else who's trying to do what
(21:47):
I'm doing? How they get brought down and I feel
satisfied with that result? And yet another white appeer I
wouldn't feel that way about. Oh when you set with
that and you begin to reckon with it. What was
(22:09):
the route I founded me because because of that conditioning, man,
I'm like it worked on me.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
So you felt like there was some part of you
that was like.
Speaker 4 (22:22):
That was satisfying with another brother who was trying to
do what I was doing, like my competition. I don't care.
I don't look at this not But at the time,
I did not like that. That was not what I
believe as a black man in this struggle. And I
know how we've been taught to you know that divide
(22:46):
and conquered. I know I know too well about that
to be part of that, to be on that side
of it. No, No, that I don't want to go
around and hate my damnself, you know. So that was
that was something that I'm going No, I don't care
what is forever someone else. I can't have that in
(23:09):
my life. And so so you know, but yeah, any
white counterpop part I wouldn't have felt the same way.
But I was satisfied that this this actor had, you know, misfortune. No,
(23:31):
I didn't.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
I did not like that feeling. I do.
Speaker 4 (23:34):
I never feel that way anything since then, you know,
deep down now, when somebody is hurt, I feel the
way I should feel. That's me, he's that I feel
I feel connected to that.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
You know that this is so powerful, Michael, because all
and say that because I have been and am a
therapist for many people from all walks of life, entertainers, actors, athletes,
and all those different things. And someone was asking me, sorry,
why don't you do response videos? And I said I can't.
(24:18):
I said, I come from a family where we were
never allowed to put our mouths on people when they
were having or experiencing misfortune.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
My mother would say, maybe pray for them. People. Don't
put your mouth on those people.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
And what I'm hearing from what you're saying is that
I think there's a part of us when you talk
about the disease. The disease that we have is because
this ideology that I don't want my brother, I don't
want my sister to succeed or to excel and to
(24:53):
a sin above me. Now I have this dissonance, this
lack of agreement with then myself. That it's not that
I'm just divided internally. Now my division permeates to where
I feel I feel good, well, he should because he
don't deserve that, or she should, and I love that
(25:15):
you're talking about this because I say this often when
somebody says, well, how can you just walk up to
a black man you don't know and said that you
love him, I said, because of the work that I've
done internally that to tell him I love you black man,
is me telling me I love you black man, and.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
I love that you are are are sharing that because.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
There has been You know that there's been much work
that has been strategically done systemically on us as a people.
This is why I tell people I feel like God
placed me in this space, because if you can get
your mind right, you can get your life right.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
And if you can get this right, you can change
your perception.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
Because also one of the great neurologists, doctor Oliver Sachs,
He was a pioneer and in neurology, and he often
would say that you don't just see what your eyes,
you also see what your brains. And then he would yeah,
(26:22):
And then he had this idea that perception was a
form of art that was also attached to an act
of creation. So every time you remember or have a memory,
it is reconstructed every time you remember remember it, and
so there's much of our memories that we recall and
(26:44):
I'm not going to say that it's all accurately, but
a lot of it is also colored in the way
that we perceive life, which is why I say he'll
I see different because I can look at someone's brokenness
and there is the heal part of me that understands
how to empathize with my brother. And I like how
(27:07):
you said that it's not about competition, because we're all
on the same fight. With that result and with whould
you become an as an artist? How parallel argutu from
who Michael is as the artist and who Michael is
(27:27):
as a man, Like, how do you combine them with
the reconciliation that you have within yourself on certain things
that as a black man.
Speaker 4 (27:36):
Well, I put a lot of this in my art,
and I wrote, I wrote and directed and started a
movie Western called Outlaw Johnny Black, which I get a
chance to put things that I mean, I have a
you know, I have a movie about forgiveness and redemption
(27:57):
disguised as a revenged movie. And you know, I get
a chance to put some of my heart into these things. Yeah,
I'm blessed to be able to do my own projects
now and you know, you I'll have the body counting,
the action and fighting, but I'll sneak in a whole
(28:19):
bunch of other stuff that if you're percepted, you'll get
the messages. Yeah. So I combine those two and you know,
luckily I can start doing films that where I can
play more of who I am and present those nuances
(28:40):
like the movie that brings Me here, the secret between
us and I get to play a husband and father
and play those nuances that I live, right, but then
also show that the flaws, you know, and hopefully within
(29:01):
that people see something they recognizing themselves and you know,
have these family dramas and what have you. I'll still
keep doing the kick butt stuff.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
Yeah, you know, we gotta have that. Yeah but yeah,
but yeah.
Speaker 4 (29:13):
So I've been very blessed and I'm and like I said,
where I came from, I wasn't supposed to be here. Yeah, right,
So this is just you know, this is like I'm
playing with house money right now.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
I love to say that every day I wake up
up something playing louse money because I think there's such
a My mentors to say it's a privilege to fight.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
And he said every day that you open your eyes.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
Man, It's just this, you know, he was so and
it wasn't this mindset of this optimism you know people
always like, but it was always this honoring that he
saw life. He has such an honor still living, but
he has such an honor to how he saw life.
And and I can appreciate that when you say I'm
(30:02):
playing with house money, because you now get to do
the things that you want to do and create in
the way that you want to create. No.
Speaker 4 (30:11):
Yeah, I mean we can't hide from who we really are.
And I know what I'm capable of, right, and if
I do less than that, I'm not going to be
a happy person, you know. So I get a chance
to operate at my maximum capacity. So it's one of
(30:31):
those things that takes care of itself. And it's not
for any competition or just to try to get into
any type of status. Just me doing what I feel
like I'm supposed to do and be the servant I'm
supposed to be so I can live honestly, you know,
(30:52):
because if I did less than that, I would not
be balanced or.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
Happy, you know when you talk by balance, right.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
That was something I noticed in the film, the segrete
between us the character.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
Jack that you play. Uh, when he returns home. Uh,
you know you don't see him ever go back to
work again. Yeah. And and and what.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
What I gather from that, because I'm always conceptualizing thing.
When I gather from that that home became more important
than work? Oh yeah, oh yeah. And when you think
about the state of the family and as a husband,
how important for men to not just be home but
(31:45):
you see Jack now has to be emotionally present. How
important is it for a father, husband and a man
to be emotionally present at home?
Speaker 2 (31:56):
You know?
Speaker 4 (31:56):
In that case? Uh, like in the movie, it's the
nature of a man. You you, I mean, like our superpower,
I always say, is securing the home, protecting our family.
And where in the movie, prior to that that looked
like providing financially and what have you. Well, he's gotten
(32:23):
to a place where providing and you know, taking care
of the family became being present. And it's just the
nature and what we're supposed to do. Okay, it might
look different at different times, So that leadership had to
be you know, within the walls of the home at
(32:44):
that time. And you know, I feel like that's that's
what you you know that's how we operate in our
best capacity.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
We you know, uh, you know he you know, he's
home and now he's deal with this issue. You and
you're talking about this.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
Uh. You know what I love about the film. There
was so many stories being told in more it was
emotional for me to watch it, if I'm honest, because
I know what it's like to go through a miscarriage
and uh, that loss, uh sometimes isn't greed for men.
(33:24):
And the part where Jack is really been open about
how we don't get that as men. Right Usually when
there's loss, it's all the attention is, rightfully so given
to the woman. Yes, yes, and and man, And I'm
(33:45):
just being honest. I was sitting up in my bed
watching on my laptop and when you went into that
that just you know, I lost too.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
Mm hmm. Oh.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
Man, I had to pause it to wipe my eyes
because I work with.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
A lot of brothers.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
Yeah that often say, man, she's going through this, and
she went through that.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
But brother I was in it too.
Speaker 4 (34:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
Absolutely.
Speaker 4 (34:17):
And then there's a lot of men who you know,
we got big shows for a reason, and that rightly,
so we're supposed to put ourselves second. I think the
in a lot of the cases, of course, because our children,
our wives, you know, especially our wives. I say this,
there's super hero quality. There's superpower is love and nurturing.
(34:43):
And you know they're emotional, just as our kids are.
And when you are an emotional person and that's what
you used to be, we have to listen on another
level beyond our egos and what have you, not the surface,
but what's really being said, because anybody under a strong
(35:04):
emotion should be given that grace to not say the
perfect thing, not say it perfectly. They're supposed to be demonstrative.
They're supposed to exaggerate, and you, as a man, should
know better than to listen to the exaggeration. Wanting to
(35:25):
be right.
Speaker 2 (35:27):
Now that's wisdom, Yeah, that's wisdom, not not. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (35:31):
So no, I know what you mean. You're gonna say
you always did. And if I'm sitting there thinking about
the time that I you know I didn't, or trying
to find a flaw in your no, I'm not doing
my I'm not doing my job. I should be listening,
you know, if somebody's traumatic, if they're going through something,
(35:52):
you got to listen harder. You can't be thinking about
when I'm going to jump in, you.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
Know and be right.
Speaker 4 (35:57):
Nah, don't be right, you know. I mean my thing
is I'm going to prove you right before proving you wrong.
So I want to listen and know, Okay, that's what
you mean. You know, that's what you mean.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
I'm hearing you.
Speaker 1 (36:12):
There's somebody's going to be watching that and saying, brother, wife,
you're fifty eight and you got a lot of years
of experience to make that conceptualization. Right to listen because well,
as you were talking here, you said, well, our shoulders
(36:32):
are broad for a reason. We're supposed to be second.
But what do you do when you are putting yourself
second or the first to her?
Speaker 2 (36:42):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (36:43):
Yeah, so yeah, let me continue with that thought. Yeah,
like we're supposed to do that, right. But the trick
is knowing that if we if we take on this
trauma and not find the balance of expressing ourselves, we're
(37:05):
going to be less than as being providers of security
and and you know, uh, the leadership in our family
because we're we're traumatized and we're you know, we're hurting.
But that's the trick, is Okay, you don't you if
(37:29):
if this discussion is going on, you shut up, listen,
and you pick a time that you have to now
when you come with your your concern, be wise and
know when to do that right and how to Uh.
(37:50):
You don't expect somebody to understand when they're bringing you
with their trauma. That's not the time, right, you know,
you sit down and say, baby, this is important to me.
You can't when she's in the listening mode, you know,
And that's that's.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
Not that's not now my for this third this this
audience up because most brothers are saying, when it is
my turn to share my grievance and to share whatever
bothers me, I am now burden after I share to
(38:27):
console her about what I share because how it made
her feel. So, I mean, I know, but but what
would you say to the brothers who are saying, brother,
I am going.
Speaker 2 (38:39):
To her to share what my traumas or what my
burden is.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
But by the time I get through, I now having
to deal with the emotions of what she feels about
what I share.
Speaker 4 (38:58):
What it is it I feel like this it's it's
like it's a it feels cutting dry to me. Because
if you're not able to hear me I'm gonna stop right, Uh,
and you got to really be able to I mean,
yeah here, yeah, big shoulders for a reason. And and
(39:23):
sometimes you're gonna have to be able to know how
to uh, how to express this and avoid the landmines.
You ain't got no choice. I'm sorry, there's no choice.
So you either, I mean, I'm I'm I'm concerned. I'm
(39:44):
like very uh mission oriented. The mission is for you
to hear what I'm saying. If you don't hear what
I'm saying, there's a problem here, okay. And you know
if somebody's saying, oh, she ain't here some kind of way,
you're treading the emotional part. And so it's I can't
(40:10):
I you know, I don't know if I've I gotta say.
I know I've had to be able to do that.
What we got like for you, I'll say it. I
like your parriage. Well, but this way, I know my
wife for twenty nine years, and we've had all but
three or maybe four arguments. Pauls I'm not playing she
(40:33):
right there? Paul's am I lying? Is she here? She's sleep?
She went to sleep, and you know you don't say that,
so she he ain't she didn't result.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
So so, so that's thirty almost thirty years. Yeah, arguments, okay,
but you get as a young man today. Give me
the formula.
Speaker 4 (40:59):
I'm telling you that only the times we had the
arguments is when we both were emotional, and those things
might have lasted about half an hour because I was
I was emotional, she was emotional. We were both in
and at the same time. I couldn't hear each other.
Speaker 2 (41:14):
Right, But I.
Speaker 4 (41:18):
Exercise this with friends everything else. And if I get
to a point where this person can't really hear me,
my thing is okay, if you become emotional, you lost already.
So as the man, don't become emotional, you just can't
do it because I can tell I can tell you that,
can you you know, can you please pass me the salt?
But I can say could you please pass me the salt?
(41:41):
Or that's that's Oh. All I did was ask me
you pass me the salt. But I'm not realizing the
emotion underneath it. Right, if something says under a high emotion,
just like the same way, I gotta listen when she goes.
You never say that, you never am like she don't
mean that she means often I do this often.
Speaker 2 (41:59):
I do you know right.
Speaker 4 (42:00):
Now, if her mind is you know, it's here, like,
I baby, you're okay, Yeah, I'm fine. Yeah, I'm gonna
fall for that. No, I know she ain't fine. I'm
not gonna say, well, you don't sound like you know.
I'm gonna I'm gonna sneak around the back door and
be like, oh, so you talked to mom today, Yeah
she was, I'm gonna do my detail.
Speaker 2 (42:23):
My brother, brother, my brother. That's wisdom. That's wisdom.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
So you're putting it in the palm of your hand,
carefully holding it.
Speaker 4 (42:31):
Yes, Hey, like I said, we got big shoulders. We
know we could do better. We could do like, shame
on you if you didn't know how to circumvent. You're
a lady and explain, Hey baby, I need you to
understand this, okay. And even right there if it's like okay, oh,
(42:52):
this ain't the time. This ain't the time, because if
if emotion is rearing its head, it ain't gonna get
no better. So I'm I'm like, no, we're gonna talk
about this and oh no, okay, okay, I listen, you're ready,
you know, don't take it so serious, you know, So
there's all these different things, all these nuances. But shame
(43:14):
on you if you don't know you're a woman better
than to know when to bring something to it.
Speaker 2 (43:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
Now I'm looking at my camera, you looking yours. Now,
y'all heard what he said? Same old you, good brother. Yeah,
I'm gonna say, shame old you. Good system. If y'all
don't know each other. And I think that is the
biggest dilemma that we have today, may relationship.
Speaker 4 (43:36):
We grow up with so much game, fellas, we grow
up with so much game that it's shame on you.
If you don't know how and when to express yourself
to your woman without triggering something. You know, then you
got to work on your game.
Speaker 2 (43:55):
You know.
Speaker 5 (43:56):
It's it's we're gonna bow on this because hey, we
all have We all had mothers right, and we knew,
we knew how to We knew how to work our
mothers like where we couldn't work our fathers that way.
Speaker 4 (44:11):
We knew how to work our mothers. Okay, we knew.
Come on now, So but if it's not in your
goal to be right or whatever, and you if your
goal is listen, I need you to understand this. You know,
here's how I'm feeling. So I want that grace that
(44:31):
I give you to listen, just I want you to
feel a lot of the time, a lot of times
the woman doesn't want logic from you. They want you
to listen, right, say that. A lot of times the
women don't want logic from you. They want you to listen.
That's it, right, that's so ven They should understand when
(44:55):
you honored them and respect your relationship well enough that
you took the time which is a thing, a very
feminine thing to do, to say listen, I want you
to hear me. They can recognize that effort because that's
in their wheelhouse.
Speaker 2 (45:12):
Right.
Speaker 4 (45:13):
So when you do that and say, hey, you know,
I just you know, I want to go. I don't
want to feel like I have to edit myself. I
want you to know the true me I want. This
is for the sake of our relationship whatever. And before
it was not the time for me to do this
because I was listening to you. But I need you
(45:33):
to hear me. Okay, there's you gotta do. You do
you gotta do that without hitting the land mines. You
know what I mean basically, And shame on you if
you don't know how to do that?
Speaker 1 (45:47):
Man, I have two more questions to end with because
I know you have a busy day, man, but this
is the man you're giving out some wisdom that this
is insight, because this is also what a lot of
men don't get. And I think when we as men
begin to understand that we're just as emotional as our
(46:10):
counterpart women. But it's the way that we express it
and manage it and understand it. And and I tell man,
when you learn how to regulate your emotions, I can't
stand what people said, Well, you know, don't match brothers.
I'm telling you, no match a woman's energy. It is temporary.
(46:36):
Don't match it. Let her come down and then you
can talk. But you're right though, when but when, but
when you both escually.
Speaker 4 (46:45):
No, forget it, forget it. You gotta stop. But I got,
I gotta, I gotta keep it a hundred. I will
never say we're just as emotional as a woman.
Speaker 2 (46:56):
No, man, no, give me, give me your logic.
Speaker 4 (47:01):
Okay, you have to play a board game, or you
played taboo or trip men versus the women women's term.
Speaker 2 (47:14):
Men.
Speaker 4 (47:14):
It's like we calm with it, right, We're not emotional
like the emotional. Look at just look at the world.
Look look at our entertainment world. Look at everything that's
exposed to us. Look at basketball, look at every look
at everything. You know, we are more meticulous and thinking
(47:35):
about these things because we have to be in war
and everything else. You have to not be the most emotional.
Men that we know in society are considered what crazy
because because logic is the opposite of crazy. Right, So
(48:02):
it's like a lot of people say, here's a little
little tid if you want to win or if you
want to talk about this, and it's kind of controversial
when you say we are all women have some crazy
in them, right, That might ruffle some feathers. But then
when you ask them and okay, think about your friend group.
Is your friends? What you say your friends are crazy?
(48:25):
A lot of women will go, yeah, I've seen my friend,
each one of my friends be a little craziert. How
about your moms? Everybody that the mother? Have you seen
your mother be crazy?
Speaker 2 (48:35):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (48:36):
But then you say about the father. When you say
about your your male friends, there's a lot of men
that are so logical they're boring. So we can't start
saying the majority of men are crazy or just or emotional.
I'm just saying the emotional men, most of them. Emotional
(49:00):
men are kind of.
Speaker 2 (49:01):
I'm gonna say this is emotional men are very violent, dude.
Speaker 1 (49:05):
It's crazy. Emotional men are very violent. So I'm gonna
say this. From working with a lot of men in
the penal system and watching young black boys who struggle
to regulate their emotions, what you see is that your
(49:26):
inability to regulate your emotions will always warrant a reaction
versus a response. The reaction is knee jerk, and the
response is I'm able to process it says now, I
done stepped on Michael J. White shoe. Okay, I've stepped
(49:50):
on micro'shoe. I am not a martial art expert. I
don't And the process is like, let me apologize to
this good brother because I don't have I don't have
time to be in the hospital.
Speaker 2 (50:05):
The reaction is.
Speaker 1 (50:07):
Oh, you're still on my shoot the emotions and I
see so many men and going back to what we
were speaking about earlier, so many men in ability. For example,
you see this in the film. His emotions drove him
without thinking, I'm much just pop up oh yeah, yeah,
(50:31):
with no thought, with the exception. I mean, with the
expectation of you with open arms and so uh and
and again and and and this makes a great conversation. Look,
I know we run out of time, but this, this
last question I want to ask you when you think
about the film the secret between us, there's forgiveness, there's infidelity,
(50:57):
there's reconciliation.
Speaker 2 (50:59):
Uh, there's anger, there's a resientment. What what do you hope.
Speaker 1 (51:09):
And the caregiver man was, oh, she's my favorite.
Speaker 2 (51:13):
And I can't feel my weight, but she is my
favorite because of to me she was glued. Yes, yeah,
what do you want people to get out of this field? Man?
Speaker 4 (51:26):
I so want them to see see they're themselves in it.
I want them to understand the power of forgiveness and.
Speaker 2 (51:42):
And how.
Speaker 4 (51:44):
You know, you see people trying to get better, you know,
and and hold on to family and really what really matters.
And I don't want to give away too much, but
you see the power that Lisa Arundelle shows in that
(52:08):
a lot of times, especially in these days, social media
is encouraging you to default to the most negative reactions
to things, and you're not seeing enough things that say no, no, no,
(52:28):
fighting for family and love is the deeper meaning instead
of saying, you know, I'm done with this. A lot
of us who grew up with this dysfunction knew this.
(52:50):
I'm done, I'm cutting out. It's a lot of our
broken homes came from that. But again they came from
people who've had just such a history of trauma. Right,
and again, us embracing tearing each other down, and then
(53:19):
society embracing beating up on the man, you know, kind
of like so many things have a narrative of woman good,
man bad, you know, and that's become very traveling and
(53:39):
in vogue to just beat up on man. And you know,
I would love here. Of course, in the music industry
and everything else, and in movies, and yeah, it's easy
to to hit on negative stuff because people respond, you know,
(54:08):
it's very easy. It's cheap.
Speaker 2 (54:10):
It's cheap.
Speaker 4 (54:12):
I'm gonna have a show about bickering, and so people
can just you know, kind of live. I can't see
through that bicker, bigger bicker. And then when you talk
about us loving each other beyond that, yeah, people are
not in conditioned to embrace that as much as which
(54:32):
is a problem because we've had quite enough of that. Yeah,
breaking us down, dividing and concer it's enough of that,
you know, and deep down we talk about how can
this is? We are suffering from those things because deep
(54:56):
down in our hearts, like I was talking about, young
men dying for each other because they have this love
that they can express it in other ways, you know,
dying for their block, dying for their their set. You know,
(55:17):
we're we're constantly running into this imbalance and we when
we are the people who have shown love unparalleled in
this world over and over and talk to hate each
other and the media trying to do that, you know.
(55:37):
So I want I want people to look at this
and start seeing the truth of what we are and
who we are and who we want to be.
Speaker 2 (55:46):
That's what I want.
Speaker 1 (55:50):
When you think about to close out, when you think
about I asked every guests this question. Ah, you know
this podcast is centered around healing. When you think about
that word healing, you think about to make better, to
restore the renew.
Speaker 2 (56:07):
For you. You had a journey.
Speaker 1 (56:10):
From coming from New York and now you are, you know,
just a legend. And I'm sure that your journey to
getting here was a journey. When you think about healing,
what does that mean for you?
Speaker 4 (56:28):
This means stepping into who you are meant to be
and shedding those negative things that you're you are conditioned
to grab onto and then start to break down.
Speaker 2 (56:46):
If I feel bad?
Speaker 4 (56:47):
Why you know, as a a black community, we're not
taught to reach out to get help, therapeutic help. You know,
if your eyesight goes bad, where do you go? You
go to an optometrist. Ears go bad, ears, nose and throat.
If your spirit is bad, if you are having mental
(57:11):
issues problems, well go to somebody who specializes in that.
If not, you know, at least go to folks like yourself,
because that's what we're here for, you know. And you
know my thing is I feel like you know when
(57:31):
you just there's one thing I lean with you which
helps me and change a lot in my life. And
I say this, any trauma, any anger, any emotion is triggered,
and the first thing happens is you're going to ask
(57:52):
a question what, when?
Speaker 2 (57:54):
Why? How? Right?
Speaker 4 (57:56):
And so if you're in a traffic jam, you're angry
because you don't know, You're like, why is? And then
you get up ahead and you see there was a
car accident and you're not angry anymore. Right, Well, you
can get in a traffic jam today and you have
a choice to be angry or not. But there's a
(58:18):
certain point where you go, this is not a conspiracy
against me. Then it's gotta a logical answer. And when
you get a frustrated and you go, what, let me
concern myself with what the fact is? This is a
logical answer. I just don't know what it is. Right.
(58:40):
And every time you are angry and you ask yourself why, stop,
don't be emotional and concern yourself with the reason why,
because you probably know it. But of course, like I say,
you're gonna be in thousands of traffic jams and feel
the same way and get mad every time. That's your decision.
(59:01):
But you start asking yourself, why am I feeling this? Why?
What is making me upset? What is making me discontent?
And you stop and go now, let me try to
concentrate on the answer to that. And I think that
is the thing that's going to possibly lead you to
(59:25):
healthier way of being.
Speaker 2 (59:29):
My brother, I don't really state you man, Listen, guys
legend Michael John White.
Speaker 1 (59:38):
The movie new movie he has coming out, The Secret
between Us, very powerful movie. Very powerful message on forgiveness,
very powerful movie on restoration. I truly think that we're
in the season in today's society where we need films
to speak to where we are, films.
Speaker 2 (59:59):
That are healing.
Speaker 1 (01:00:00):
As I watched this film, it's definitely healing, very cautharitic,
and I think we need more messages. As he shared,
that also allows us to see more love and also
to see what does grace looks like in real time.
None of us are perfect. We're all on this journey
and we're all healing some parts of us, making new
(01:00:21):
some part of you. And maybe that's therapy for some
of you. Maybe that's getting counseling, coaching for some of you.
You know, there's so many different healing modalities that you
can use. But I encourage you to please go see
this film. This is April third. April third is in
theaters everywhere. April third, The Secret between Starr and Michael
(01:00:44):
John White.
Speaker 2 (01:00:45):
I'm telling you this is this listen. I'm not shamed
to say it.
Speaker 1 (01:00:49):
I was in tears because of the message that would
so deeply carried out by the characters and and uh
and and it's just a real message that we need today.
On what does it look like to keep the family
together when uncertainty happens. Listen, you guys know this healing
(01:01:12):
conversation can always continue. Subscribe, like, share, and again, remember,
healing is a journey. Some of you are just starting out.
Some of you have been on the journey for a while.
Remember it's not long, it's not short. It's necessary. I
will say that if you want to become better, because
(01:01:34):
they said it's about shedding, and hopefully we can continue
to shed to become more of who God created us
to be. Healing is a journey and wholeness is a destination.
Until next time, I'm doctor J. And this has been
another episode of Just Here with Doctor J. Just Here
with Doctor J, a production of the Black Effect Podcast Network.
For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
(01:01:58):
or wherever.
Speaker 2 (01:01:59):
You listen to your favorite shows. And you can follow
me at King J.
Speaker 1 (01:02:03):
Barnett on Instagram and x and follow us on YouTube.
Speaker 2 (01:02:07):
Just Here, Doctor J.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.