July 2, 2025 • 58 mins
Gregg Rosenthal is joined by NFL Network Chief National Reporter Steve Wyche to reveal numbers 20 through 16 of NFL Daily's Top 25 Players of the Last 25 Years. The duo starts with Cleveland Browns DE Myles Garrett (0:52) at number 20. Then, Wyche and Rosenthal pay respects to one of the best offensive guards in football history, longtime Dallas Cowboy Zack Martin (12:26), at number 19. Martin is followed by Pro Football Hall of Famer Julius Peppers (21:50) -- the fourth most prolific sack artist in NFL history -- at number 18. For Peppers, the duo takes a look back at an incredible two-play sequence that exemplifies the type of freak athlete Pep was over his 17 year career. The last non-QB to win MVP, running back Adrian Peterson (31:58), comes in at number 17. Wyche shares a classic story of the first time he met Peterson, and other anecdotes about his incredible rushing career. Future Hall of Fame Quarterback Drew Brees (44:06) rounds out this tier of players at number 16. With Brees being another player Wyche covered extensively in the NFC South, the veteran reporter shares story after story about the greatest player in New Orleans Saints history.
Don't miss any of NFL Daily's Top 25 Players of the Last 25 Years where Gregg is joined by ESPN's Mina Kimes and Bill Barnwell, Yahoo! Sports' Nate Tice, NFL Network's Steve Wyche and Brian Baldinger and broadcasting legend Kevin Harlan to break down the best NFL players since the turn of the century.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to NFL Daily's Top twenty five players of the
last twenty five years. I'm Greg Rosenthal here in the
Chris Westling podcast studio alongside one of my favorite people
to talk ball with, the man Steve Weiss, who has
been covering this league NonStop for the last couple of decades,
(00:24):
mostly here at NFL Network. Are you ready to count
down from numbers twenty to number sixteen on this list?
Speaker 2 (00:31):
I am. This is such an amazing concept.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
You know when you talk about like impactful players whatever
in this list you came up with stylistically, I mean,
the fact you pulled this off, I think is CRAMPEDO.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Don't get ahead of it ourselves here, we got to
make it great. But no, we had a great first
episode with Mina Kimes. I'm looking forward to talking these
five players.
Speaker 4 (00:50):
Yay, let's get going.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Number twenty Miles Garrett.
Speaker 4 (00:57):
Burrow to throat.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Here comes Garrett.
Speaker 4 (00:59):
There it is is Miles Garrett. Welcome to the one
hundred club.
Speaker 5 (01:04):
He takes down Joe Burrow one hundred career sacks for
the future Hall of Famer.
Speaker 6 (01:10):
But yeah, you know, I wanted to know make a
known that and I'm the guy I'm number one, no
as defender, and that was a statement out I was
intended to make.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
I think I'm making He's.
Speaker 5 (01:20):
Got to try it from sixty, it's blocked, ball loose
fight fotenzel Ward picks up ward running across the Indianapolis thirty.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
That was Miles Garrett that blocked that field goal.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Jumps right over.
Speaker 5 (01:33):
He jumped right over the center man. He went superman,
no contact.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
They do uniquely that maybe other teams don't come in that.
Speaker 4 (01:42):
That maybe why you all truggle the way you'll have.
They have Miles Garrett. That's different from from everybody else.
Speaker 5 (01:47):
Under pressure from Miles, ball out, fight for to the
end zone, Miles got home again. Who's got it? Browns
tou touchdown.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Miles Garrett is single handedly taking.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Over this game.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Miles Garrett number twenty on the list. You heard the
voices of many people there, but some of our friends,
Patrick Claybon with a great voiceover, of course, but also
Andrew Ceciliano. You heard Joe Burrow talking about what's the
difference between facing them and other teams. Yeah, here's the difference.
It's Miles freaking Garrett. I'll get into all the accomplishments
(02:22):
of why he is on this list. You might notice
if you're listening, the back end of the list is
heavily weighted towards some of these current players. It's gonna
get different soon, But I just realized Garrett already has
the resume of an all time great.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Oh yeah, I mean, there's so many different ways we
can go here. First off, the fact that he has
one hundred and two sacks in eight seasons. I don't
think people understand how heart it is to get a sack,
especially when you're like the guy on the defense when
people are double teaming you. You saw some chips on
the play right there while he's blue right through him.
Plus he's six four to two seventy five, right, he's
built like a sleek defensive tackle. By comparison, TJ. Watt
(03:02):
is sixty four two fifty. So this is a massive
human being doing some of the things athletically that he does.
But the way the Cleveland also, especially Jim Schwartz, has
come in last couple of years and moved him around.
That's helped him because he's got sixty sacks past four years.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
But here's the biggest part, which shows his dominance.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
Right, like a he does not play on a team
that gets twenty point leads and is forcing the other
team to throw the ball forty five times a game.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
His team is usually trailing.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
He's had two winning seasons and played on an zero
to sixteen team, right, so his team.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Is usually trailing. So his opportunities to get to the.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Quarterback are probably far less than some other great pass
rushers like a Dwight Freene someone like that whose team
stake leads all the time. Like when you talk about
impactful greatness, this is a dude who is winning regardless
of circumstance.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Yeah, I think of the players that are going to
be on this list, who have been on this list,
including Garrett, who have done it in the toughest of situations.
I think you have to be that much better, not
only as a player to get the attention from the
national media to get those All Pros, but also to
stay strong as a man as a player, to continue
(04:19):
to chase greatness. And yeah, just to go over some
of the accomplishments off the top four first team All
Pros and two second team All Pros in seven years,
he had that Defensive Player of the Year Award from
a couple of years ago where he was just taking
over games, but he has two other seasons where he
was in the top five. Only two players in NFL
(04:41):
history have had more consecutive ten sac seasons. Those two
players are Hall of Famers Reggie White and John Randall,
and that number is still growing. Miles Garrett, I think,
is going to continue getting those numbers. I don't know
if I mean, man, if he hasn't peaked, that's something else.
Speaker 4 (04:58):
But he and TJ.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Watt, who we also hit in the first show with me,
and they were a little mind blowing for me to realize, like, Okay,
they are still playing, but actually, if you look at
their resumes and stack them up against some other Hall
of famers, they are already among the all time great
So I felt like it would not be doing a
service to Miles Garrett to just diminish him just because
(05:23):
he's in the middle of his career.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
No, yeah, I mean you can't do that. This is
going to continue to grow. It's going to be a
first ballot Hall of Fame type guy. Look, seven straight
seasons with double digit sack on the teams he's played on.
Remember and oh to sixteen team. That is insane. He's
very good against the run. You saw him block that
kick right there. I remember remember the last couple of
years he started moving him over the center h a
(05:46):
little bit. He is still one of the best athletes
in the NFL at that size. Again, it is just
there's nothing you can really do except try to go
away from him. He knows it and he still makes plays.
It is so so hard. Like in Collins, I played
the same position as this guy, sixty pounds lighter, but
(06:06):
it is so hard to get a sack in the NFL.
And think about quarterback dropping back four hundred times a
season and getting sacked thirty two times, Like that's a
hard thing to do. And he's getting double digit seven
years in a row.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
Yeah, and he's also you know, he racks it up
since he's entered the league, third in tackles for lost,
second in quarterback hits. So it's not even just the sacks,
which are just outrageous. He's the first ever player, by
the way, to have fourteen or more for four straight years,
So it's the consistency. I love what you said about
the weight. It is crazy. He actually weighs more two
(06:41):
seventy five than what Aaron Donald said. He was playing
at at the end of his career and two of
the all time greats, obviously, but a guy who when
he came out, Miles Garrett and I went back to
check some of the coverage at the time, was just
a no brainer for one overall pick because you look
(07:02):
at him and yes, all these players on this list
have a discipline and a work ethic and an intelligence,
but a lot of them also are just incredible athletic specimens.
Speaker 4 (07:16):
And I do think of Miles Garrett.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
Oh, he's one one towards the very very top of
that where if like you are creating a football player
in a lab, it is Miles Garrett. It's just it's
kind of a ridiculous person to be next to. You've
been around him. I've been around Okay, let's hear it.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
First, of his arms are like thirty inches big.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
When we see the videos of him, he's got like
eighty pound dumbbells in each hand doing thirty six inch
priometric jumps.
Speaker 4 (07:41):
Well, that's him jumping over the center.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
So that field goal block that he had a couple
of years ago, that calt Why did he have.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
To hold U my shoulder ball off.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
But he's funny when you talk about him coming out,
because I remember getting a couple of phone calls and
Don Blackman, the former Patriots linebacker, long NFL coach, father
of our Tiffany Blackman, our former COG College Tiffany Blackman,
he called me one day he was just not Texas
a and them scouting sex. To you, this guy is
going to completely change things in the NFL.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Yeah, I heard from several other people.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
Don Blackman, who was a heck of a player, a
longtime great coach himself. The way he raved about Miles Garrett,
You're like, no way, he's going to live up to
this hype and again playing that position, registering the number
of sacks he has on a team that plays with
no leads stunning.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
He's that great.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
He's the youngest player to get to one hundred sacks.
He's been on PFF's first team All Pro five straight years.
And I actually find PFF's rankings interesting, if only because
they're not as consistent as the All pers because it's
just in theory on their numbers, and yet the numbers
even have him first each and every season. That quote
we heard from Garrett was from a game this last season,
(08:49):
and I don't think of twenty twenty four as Garrett's
best season. Still was one of the very best players
and came in third in Defensive Player of the Year,
but you know it wasn't like his very best.
Speaker 4 (08:58):
But that was a game against this Steelers in TJ.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
Watt and he shows up and he says, I want
to be known as the best EDG dresher. So he
shows up, he has eight pressures, three sacks, a force
fumble and something else on Thursday night.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Football Snowglobe game.
Speaker 4 (09:13):
Because it was a big.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
Game, and that does make me think, like, man, imagine
if he was playing in more big games, because when
he's had to get up, he's gotten up for him.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
I mean, imagine if he played on a team like
the Bengals, right that could score thirty eight a game
where teams are chasing them or something like that.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
The numbers would just when you talk when you look
at the.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
Great pass rushers, even guys going back as far as
Taken Jones, and they didn't record sacks. He played with
Roman Gabriel, you know, quarterback who was an MVP team
to score points that way, So you know he's one
of those. Like as great as he is, it's almost
like a what if. And you have to think about
a former Cleveland Brown and Joe Thomas played eleven seasons,
never went to the playoffs.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
He's only been to the playoffs twice.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Miles Garrett, Well, Joe Thomas has a chance to be
on this list. I'm not doing any I'm not doing
any spoilers early, but the I will say have over
indexed on all time great players. And you mentioned the
oh to sixteen for listeners who might not be aware. Yeah,
that was Garrett's rookie season.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
It's only year he didn't have double digit sack.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
But also like, what a welcome to the NFL moment,
Poor Garrett, Poor Deshaun Kaiser going out there, you know,
not winning a single game. And you know, it's interesting
that draft he goes number one overall is a terrible
Top five in hindsight, Yes, Mitchell Trubisky two, Solomon Thomas three,
Leonard Fournette four, Corey Davis five. I have never once
(10:36):
heard anyone say that the Browns made a mistake for
drafting Miles Garrett in a draft that had Patrick Mahomes.
You always give the grief to the forty nine ers,
for instance, who needed a quarterback that year, and the
Bears especially who took Mitchell Trubisky. But no one ever says, well,
how come the Browns didn't take what Patrick bunk because
(10:57):
like you took Miles Garrett and ultimately like that, you
have to be pretty.
Speaker 4 (11:01):
Great for no one to ever bring that up.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
You know what, Brown's fans loving you right now because
that's one of the few times where they're like, wow,
they didn't make a mistake, right, but.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
Now you can say they did. But no one knew
who Patrick Mahomes was gonna be. There was a little story.
And I know you're intimately involved with the Hall of Fame.
I'll leave you with this on on Miles Garrett. He
was there with his teammates in the preseason a few
years ago, I think, playing the Hall of Fame game,
and they all went and.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
Did a tour, right but Joe Thomas went in.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
And everyone said afterwards it was like being a kid
in a candy store. It was amazing, except for Miles Garrett.
And Miles Garrett stayed on the bus all by himself
while the team toured the Hall of Fame. Because he said,
I'm not going in there until my bust is going.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
That's what I'm talking about. That's what I heard. Steve
Smith did the same things.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
That's built different. That's someone with a certain sort of confidence.
And I think it is really cool that Garrett is
going to be a Brown and if it's not for
his whole career, it's going to be for the next
handful of years. Two And you know, he's already, like
I said, the youngest player to reach hundred sex. He's
been in the league a long time. He came in
at twenty one. But he basically is it's gonna seem
(12:13):
like his whole career is with the Browns hopefully though,
and he's.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Made a lot of money from the Cleveland Browns as well.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Yes, he did not take a discount on that salary.
Know you're worth people, Miles. Garrett definitely knows it now
because he's number twenty on our list.
Speaker 4 (12:24):
All right, let's move to our next guy, number nineteen,
Zach Martin. Zach Martin.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
I always like to watch his film because he's been
doing it for a long time and he's such a
technical player, like who's technique and his effort make him stand.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Out just his past set.
Speaker 4 (12:39):
He's always seems like he's in a right position. If
somehow he does get caught, he's always recovering. He's in
a good bass.
Speaker 5 (12:48):
Anybody doubted a nickel of Zach Martin, He's worth the same.
Speaker 7 (12:52):
He's costantly kicking, kicking ass and that's just what he does.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Zach Martin, who's been one of the best in the
NFL for a.
Speaker 6 (13:00):
Long time, knows all the tricks of the trade, savvy
and got technique to go with it.
Speaker 4 (13:06):
That's a tough combination.
Speaker 5 (13:09):
Zach Martin up huge play.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
Football is such an amazing sport because we can go
through who are the best players you know these last
twenty five years, and we can have Miles Garrett, who
to me in terms of pure athletics and strength and speed,
that's what you think about when football players is number
one of who I would think of. And then the
very next guy on this list is a guy in
Zach Martin who we don't even know what play to
(13:39):
pick as like his highlight tape because he's an interior
offensive lineman who they said, quote unquote wasn't athletic enough
to play at left tackle. They move him inside to
guard and when I looked at his resume, Steve, I
just had a hard time not putting him on this
list somewhat as a representative four guards and interior offensive lineman,
(14:02):
but also just because he is that good.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
He's a great player.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
I mean, when I saw his name on there, I mean,
I don't know if you have a committee, if you
did this single handedly.
Speaker 4 (14:10):
I did it by myself.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
Bro, Like, this is.
Speaker 3 (14:13):
A stroke of genius, a guard who could be a
first ballot Hall of Famer. I mean guards usually have
to wait. Great guys like Will Shields and waited for years,
and maybe Zach ends up doing that, you know, after
retiring this past March. But it's funny when you think
of Zach Martin, all this greatness in this and that
what's the first thing that people talk about. They link
him with Johnny Manziel, right, because remember in that draft
(14:36):
in twenty fourteen, people were connecting Johnny Manzel because of
the flash Jerry Jones said a lot of positive stuff
about him in Texas.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Guy going there and they needed a quarterback and so.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
They okay, they're taking Johnny Manziel, Johnny football right here,
and they draft Zach Martin and you talk about it's
like the music park ride where.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
You're spinning it then the floor drops out.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
Everybody was like, what Zach Martin, when they could have
had Johnny Manziel, this might go down is the best
pick that they've had in the past twenty five years
in the draft. And the fact that it was such
a surprise and they get such a great player. I
mean seven first team All Pros, nine Pro Bowls and
(15:16):
he played what eleven years? You know, I mean that
is like we're keep saying, you know how hard that is,
especially today's game over the past five years, when defenses
have been like we've got the singular great edge rushers
like we talked about Miles Garrett. Now we're blitzing guys
up the A gaps, right, That's what the guards have
to do. They have to eat that right when linebackers
(15:36):
fred guys, Fred Warner and what not coming.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
With two or three yard full speed and he just
locks him up.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
And so we can talk about all the Dallas A
strong running game with Ezekiel Elliott, the protection for Dak Prescott.
When you look at a guy who did so much
and absolutely made them look like the smartest people in
the world for drafting him over Johnny Man's. Don't know
Johnny had something to do with that, but what a
brilliant stroke by the Cowboys.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Okay, I'm so glad you brought that up because I
would have forgotten. The funny thing is, you want to
give Jerry Jones credit, right, Okay, they did take Zach Martin.
Jerry Jones actually got on the podium after the Zach
Martin pick and said, we could have taken Manzel and
that would have paved the way in terms of our
(16:24):
the attention that we're getting the box office for our relevance.
He literally used the word relevance for the next decade. Christ,
but we took this other guy. He had to be convinced, yes,
into taking Zach Martin. He really wanted Johnny Manziel and
is obviously one of the best decisions the front office
ever made, and they got Jerry Jones even though they
(16:45):
got the pick. Right, don't say that you wanted Manzel
because the other guy could turn into.
Speaker 4 (16:49):
A Hall of Famer.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
So you mentioned the first team All pros nine in
eleven years total, seven first teams. He basically wasn't All
Pro every single year he was healthy healthy. The only
two years that he didn't make it were his age
thirty season and twenty twenty, first time really he ever
got injured. Before that, he essentially almost didn't miss a snap.
(17:13):
Missed a couple one game, I believe, from injury in
twenty eighteen, so he was always out there in that
entire time. The seven first team All pros, he had
exactly seven holding calls. I mean, if that that's the
thing I went through, and I did not have Martin
on my initial list, and I went through everything in
(17:36):
some of his numbers, and then some of the things
I read from different offensive line analysts who know the
position even better than me, really believed that the gap
between Martin and the next best guard of his era
was maybe bigger than the gap at any position between
any player.
Speaker 4 (17:53):
So that's hard to disagree with that.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
I mean, it's really hard to disagree with that.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
He is one of the most dominant we could talk
about interior what he's one of the most dominant linemen
over the past thirty or so years for what he did,
because again, the game has changed. You got all the
A gap action, right, You've got the Aaron Donalds and
guys like that, the defensive tackles who are making big
money now a lot more than guards. You know, that's
that's where they rekl and nobody beat him. But the
(18:19):
seven holding calls, there was always this great stat like
I forget you know what is the ell the Cowboys?
They have seven first downs on that drive. Oh that's
ties just as many holding calls as sackmart.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
Right in his career, and only twenty one total penalty.
So that includes false starts and any anything else. And
if you compare that, and it's not totally fair, but
if you compare that to other all time greats at
on the offensive line and tackles interior, he really did
stand out. And they say, you know, everything I read
(18:52):
about him is is his footwork, it's his technique, and
I think with all offensive linemen, it's the ability to
stay so mentally engaged in so that you can do
it each and every single snap without making anyone Well.
Speaker 3 (19:03):
The fact you think he called it holding is right
is the brilliance of technique, because you know, it's all
inside hand control or to leverage a guy this way.
That was so you're grabbing right cloth control was what
they call you're you're in here grabbing dude. In the
fact he never got caught man's he stayed in here.
You know, strong, you have to be, whether it's upper
body or you're squat, and then you've got this type
of technique.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Like this dude.
Speaker 6 (19:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
When I saw him on it, I was like Greg
Rosenthal as that guy.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Okay, well, offensive Rookie of the Year his first year.
He got a number of votes, which is really saying
something because he's a guard. You just don't see those
guys get offensively. He was first team All Pro as
a rookie because he came in and if you'll remember
that twenty fourteen Cowboys season was Tony Romo's best season.
(19:47):
He got MVP votes. He their offense went to a
whole another level. I think it was DeMarco Murray won
the rushing title. It is not coincidence that Martin comes in.
They get two more rushing titles the way with Martin
there with Ezekiel Elliott. So Romo I read some things
that he said about Martin and he said he's the
(20:07):
only player he's ever seen that when he came on
to the team as I was a rookie, I mean,
he was like, not only the best player at his position,
but he was maybe the best player on the offense
when he joined the team. And that's that's saying something
for a guy who was third in MVP voting that
year and DeMarco Murray's winning everything. So he came in
just absolutely no weaknesses and we had to give him.
Speaker 4 (20:32):
Some love and I have well done.
Speaker 8 (20:33):
Well.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
You have to admit though he's the only interior offensive
lineman that's going to be on this list.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
Good for you.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
So I apologize if any people are curious out there,
just guys that because I like to give a little
bit of a shoutout guys who did did not make
the list. And we'll do this sometimes when we hit
a position that's going to be last time we have
that position. Steve Hutchinson was tough to leave off five
first Team All pros, was all the All two thousands.
Speaker 4 (20:57):
I mean, yeah, a.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Lot of Hall of Famers are getting loftof. Alan Fanica,
Jarrey Evans are also not on this list, and neither
is Jason Kelcey. Different position, but that was a tough
one too, So I wanted Martin is kind of representing
them all.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Man, that's a big flag. He's planning right here.
Speaker 4 (21:14):
By you, I mean.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
The Jason Kelce one too, because he has six first
team All pros. But just the way people talked about him,
there's a guy Mike Gettings who runs a pro scouting
service called pro Scout that the NFL uses he was
the scout I was referring to.
Speaker 4 (21:30):
That said.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
The only gap he thought in his entire career that
was similar at another position was how they used to
talk about Dwight Stevenson at center back in the day,
that he would put Zack Martin right there with the
greatest guards of all time. So Zach Martin, number nineteen.
Let's move on to our next guy on the list.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
Number eighteen, Julius Peppers moving away off the Pauls cost to.
Speaker 7 (22:01):
Julius Peppers headed so long Peppers, Oh.
Speaker 4 (22:07):
Man, oh man, you know who hit him? It was
Fields number fifty eight came in and just runch, Michael Vick.
Speaker 8 (22:14):
There isn't a man on this field that's gonna catch
Julius Peppers when wat's his look at the athletic ability
to him, he just one.
Speaker 4 (22:22):
Hands the ball and goodbye. It's gonna give me ro respecto.
I'm gonna take it how you.
Speaker 7 (22:30):
Want it.
Speaker 9 (22:30):
He has two distinct sides to his personality. There's Julius
laid back, chill, nonchalant, and then there's the football player
they call Pip explosive, disrupted, relentless.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
We can get into so much with Julius Peppers, but
let's start with the first play that we heard there.
That was Mike Patrick and Paul McGuire, both great broadcasters
with ESPN rest in Peace. Mike Patrick recently passed away,
and that interception return where Peppers, you know, picks it
up one handed and then runs at that size for
(23:13):
the touchdown, to me, exemplifies just how he was an
athlete that is just rare in every possible way.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
Yeah, I think I actually cover that game. When I
was covering that, like wow, in the tackle that he beat,
Todd Weiner was like a really good player. He was
Michael Vick's blindside tackle. And it's funny two years ago,
you know, I did the door Knocks the Hall of
Fame crew, and two years ago and Bruce Smith was
knocking on his door.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
We're going through the whole process.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
I kept saying to myself, like, man, you know, Julius
Peppers is a first ballot Hall of Famer, And then
you don't realize he's got the fourth most sacks of
all time, right, one hundred and fifty nine and a half,
because what you just mentioned, everyone thinks of Julie Peppers
because you played basketball in north as an athlete. Right,
you don't look at him like the same way you know,
we talked about Miles Garrett or Lawrence Taylor or Deacon Jones,
(24:02):
like is that badass edge rusher who's just taking names
and putting bodies in the ground. Right, you look at
him as a super athlete who got his way downe.
But then you just look at the fact eleven interceptions,
four of them return for touchdown. Now you're when you're
six eight, Okay, you know part of that, But I
mean it's it's two All decade teams, Right, this guy
(24:24):
played for eighteen years.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
That's what did it. That's what did it, Steve. That's
what helped push him on this list. When I saw
that he was second team Hall of Fame All Decade
in the two thousands for the Hall of Fame and
actually first team from Pro Football Reference they do their
own list, and I thought that was an interesting other
voice to listen to in the two thousands, and then
(24:46):
he's also on the Hall of Fame All twenty tens
and second team for the Pro Football Reference All twenty tens.
That was what did it, because I'm not I'm trying
not to over reward longevity. I want to be about
like greatness. But he did have that high level greatness
and the longevity put it over the top for me.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
But he wasn't a compiler.
Speaker 3 (25:07):
Right now, a lot of people are like, oh, Frank
Gor's got these great numbers, But he was a compiler
because he played for so long. Pep was still giving
me double digit sacks in years fourteen fifteen playing for
the Bears, playing for the Packers, he was still putting
up big numbers. And you know, unlike Miles Garrett and
he played on some really good Panthers teams. He played
in Super Bowls, right, he really affected things. But in
(25:28):
covering that division when I worked in Atlanta from two
thousand and five to two thousand and eight, like the
Panthers were the team. It's always the Panthers and the Falcons,
and everyone's trying to out athlete each other. Right, you know,
the Panthers got Thomas Davis because he was a hybrid
safety linebacker who could spy Michael Vick. He's the guy
who could run with Michael Vick. And then you see
Julius Peppers, like there's no body on the offensive line,
(25:51):
there's no running back or whatever that could handle him,
whether it be power, whether it be finesse. And because
Pep didn't say much whore I'm talking about a smack
on that video clip, but perhaps a real quiet guy.
You know, he never you never were just like, man,
he took over a game and you're just saying yourself,
he made a spectacular play here and there, but he
never took over a game. So you're wondering, like, is
(26:15):
he really that guy? And then you go back and
think about, like, oh yeah, he really was. What was
I watching right?
Speaker 1 (26:20):
And it kind of accumulated slowly because he won Defensive
Rookie of the Year, he was thought he was the
number two overall pick in the draft and viewed as,
you know, a generational type of athlete.
Speaker 4 (26:30):
I actually think him and Garrett.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
Have a lot of similarity, I agree of coming out
of the draft, and there was a sense in Carolina
could he be even more? But three first team All Pros,
three second team All Pros, and like you mentioned, those
are sprinkled over a number of years. Only player ever
with one hundred sacks and ten interceptions. And one thing
that strikes me is he got to the end of
(26:52):
these contracts, So that says a lot. Yeah, seven years
with the Panthers and then he signs a record breaking
at the time defensive contract for the Bear ends up
four years with the Bears, lasted a while there, he
did get cut by the Bears. Then he gets a
three year big contract from the Packers at thirty four
years old. He plays through the end of that contract
and played very well. He you know, I asked Ross
(27:16):
Tucker about him who went up against him, you know,
just on text and everything, and he said he thinks
he's the most athletic player he ever played against. And
actually it was Peppers or it was either Ross's first
game or I think Pepper's first game that he says
he put Ross on the ground and literally jumped over him.
So that's the type of thing that he did. I
want to talk about a two play sequence in this
(27:40):
was back in two thousand and four, just sort of
as an example of how great Peppers was and what
kind of player he was. If younger fans maybe don't
have an idea, it was a two play sequence against
the Broncos, and if you have a chance, we are
doing these show on YouTube as well, so everyone checked
that out. But there's a run at the one yard
(28:00):
line where Jake Plummer is going to the edge and
he absolutely has the angle on Julius Peppers. This is
an athletic player and Peppers somehow runs him down. This
is at the end of a ten play drive. The
very next play after Pepper's in theory call, Win did
backs up in coverage. I challenge a cornerback to have
(28:20):
that good coverage and he goes over one hundred yards
and he does not make it to the very end,
falls on his back. I think it's one hundred and
three yards, but he only gets to the three yard line.
But those two plays in a row. He said he
was sucking wind before that play even started because he
had just run down Plumber and then he ends up
having this long interception return, and that to me is
(28:44):
kind of an example of what kind of freaky.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
Was And for people again who don't realize this, Jake
Plumber was a hell of an app Yes, he's a
dude who used to run all the time he was
on the move. And for Pep just to chase him
down like that and then make this play, I mean,
that's absolutely fantastic. Now, the linebacker who's trying to get
the plumbers to had turned around and picked off the guy,
so so Pep could have got to the house. But still,
here's your thing. Fifty two forced fumbles. So you think
(29:08):
about that, he had eleven picks and fifty two forced fumbles. Right,
that's an opportunity for sixty three changed possessions. That is
a that is the ultimate difference maker, regardless of who
he's playing for. That's why he's able to play in
Super Bowl and do some of the great things that
he did.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
I think of players on this list, they got to
stand out to me, and Pepper's he just felt like
he was a player from the future. You could you know,
he was drafted now twenty years ago, and if he
was you know more than that, right, twenty three years ago,
if you dropped him in the two thousand and twenty
five class, he would still be the number one.
Speaker 4 (29:47):
Pick, number two pick.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
Yeah, first or second pick.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
You know what, I mean like he was from the future.
As great as he looks on these clips, you know now,
just comparing him to what was going on back then.
One thing under about him maybe his motor. He missed
four games as a rookie after that, only two more
his entire career. And if you look at like the
percentage of snaps he was on the field, he didn't
(30:11):
come off like he did not come off the field.
So he was a guy who made it onto my
list late. I had some tough decisions. He went in
over Freey, he went in over von Miller. If I
did this list again, like he might be on it
next time. I had a hard time leaving von Miller off.
But he is over von Miller, He is over Jason
Taylor and some more of the great passers.
Speaker 3 (30:33):
We're talking about a pass rusher for the future, Like
can you imagine he played in Dom Caper's thirty four
where they played the hard edge setting defensive. If he
was played would play like a wide nine, like the
stuff Solid does and the stuff that Vic Fangio does.
How he could get one on one matchups. His numbers
would be bigger than they are now.
Speaker 4 (30:50):
Absolutely so.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
Julius Pepper's on the list, and yeah, if you're thinking
about edge players. By the way, Michael Strahan was a
really tough guy to leave because a lot of the
great part of his career was in the nineties. So
the twenty five year cutoff hurt Michael Strahan. Although he
was pretty awesome, yes he was in the two thousands.
He had a very strong case. So it's very tough
to pick these guys, but I think Julius will do
(31:14):
us proud. All Right, we'll be back after this the
next two players back on NFL Daily talking about the
best twenty five players of the last twenty five years.
Steve and you suggested we should do a show on
(31:37):
the omissions.
Speaker 4 (31:38):
I don't want to make people mad, though maybe after like.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
This list, any list is going to make people mad
about who's not on.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Well, yeah, they won't know until until we get to
the end. Although I'm spoiling it a little bit. We
might have to do a follow up with some reaction,
maybe a male band. If anyone thinks that I got
anything really wrong. I don't think unless people are crazy,
there's gonna be any arguments about the next guy on
our list.
Speaker 4 (32:05):
Number seventeen Adrian Peterson.
Speaker 8 (32:09):
This is perhaps one of the greatest single handed runs
I've seen, and Adrian Peterson just refused to go down.
Speaker 4 (32:18):
Handoff.
Speaker 5 (32:19):
On third down, he runs to a first down, he
squats to the far side across the fifty.
Speaker 4 (32:24):
He breaks the tackle and Adrian Peterson is loose.
Speaker 7 (32:27):
He has scored.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
As sixty five yard touchdown.
Speaker 6 (32:35):
Guess right to make of vich generation would be Adrian
Peters with.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
The mindset I had, you know, and then the guy
that have will front. You know, I know anything that's possible.
Speaker 9 (32:44):
That's why I continue to do the things, you know,
working hard in practice.
Speaker 8 (32:49):
Just the slightest of openings that Peterson goes all the way,
I'll let.
Speaker 6 (32:55):
To work right to Adrian Peterson as an animal, I mean,
the guys just relentless.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
He doesn't.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
Adrian Peterson came into the NFL as one of the
best college runners in history of Oklahoma. In day one
in the NFL, he was one of, if not the
best running backs in the NFL four first team All
pros a few more seconds, the last non quarterback to
(33:25):
win the MVP back in two.
Speaker 4 (33:28):
Thousand and twelve.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
I'll let you go with you like your first your
first memory, instinct anything covering this guy.
Speaker 3 (33:37):
Well, look, my first thing is the first time I Dumby,
I shook his hand, right, So you always heard like,
oh and Adrian Peterson shakes your hand, he's gonna break it.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
He broke it. I was like, what did I do?
Speaker 3 (33:46):
Man? Like, what did I do? So every time I
actually we're fist bumping. I mean that thing is real.
And you know, you hear about guys who are real
strong in the weight room. I don't know what he
did the weight room, but he's got what I call
pipe bending shrink, Like he could just take a freaking
engine blockout with his bare hands. He's so strong. And
then you couple that with the speed in the vision
because the Vikings made no bones about what they were
(34:07):
going to do with him in the backfield, They're giving
him the ball, he's gonna run it.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
Try and stop me with you can'to.
Speaker 3 (34:13):
He had a really good offensive line in front of him,
but there were still guys who were able to try
to get to him, and either he shook them knocked
them over.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
It was it was amazing.
Speaker 3 (34:22):
Like I tell people, one thing that that blew my mind,
blows my mind about Adrian Peterson was. He played for
as long as he did because after a year or
two people realized how strong he was, they would load
up on him. I mean I saw him take some
shots that would knock people out. He just ran right
through them, got up, and you know what, it just deflated.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
I forget.
Speaker 3 (34:43):
It was a game in the Metrodome against somebody to
dB hit him as hard as I've seen a player
ever get hit, and he just shook it off like, Okay,
that's you know.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
All day, that's my name all day.
Speaker 3 (34:54):
You're gonna be feeling that that dB was like, man,
you know that dude just walked through my right hand basically.
And and the fact that he just did all of
that was exemplified to twenty twelve. Rosie when he comes
off the torn acl at the end Christmas Eve of
twenty eleven, comes back the next year in Leslie Frayer's
coaching the Vikings and Rushes for almost twenty one hundred
(35:16):
yards right. They gave him the ball three hundred and
forty eight times off of a torn acl and he
put up two thousand yards running the ball like he's
that specially, he had over a thousand yards like at
the end of his career when he was playing for Washington.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
Right, and he's on this list because of those first
you know, seven years when he did not leave the
field and we remember him, you know, leading the NFL
and rushing coming off that torn acl That two thousand
and twelve season that you mentioned, that was the year
he won the MVP. That was the year he goes
(35:56):
for two thousand and ninety seven rushing yards still the
second most ever twenty three hundred yards from scrimmage. And
of all the guys on this list that have gone
back and watched some of the highlights, I think he
put the biggest smile on my face, just just like
watching this dude gallop in the open field. Some people
(36:18):
are just born to do something, and this man was
born to run a football and you could see the
joy that he played with. He obviously played with a toughness,
but I just felt like running hard is a skill
and running backs can only do it for so long.
You only have maybe so many times you're gonna get hit.
(36:40):
If there was a metric for running hard. To me,
he's my all time leader in running hard per carry
because every single carry of his.
Speaker 4 (36:49):
Career he brought that juice.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
And that's why I despite all the injuries that slowed
him down in the back half of his career, he
still played till he was thirty six because he still
was helping a team out by just running that hard.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
Well.
Speaker 3 (37:02):
I mean, remember the season when he kept on fumbling
the ball because he was trying to get the extra yard.
That was the thing he was always trying to get
the X yar guys are punching out. It comes back
to the next year and doesn't put the ball on the ground.
I mean, it goes to show you how much it
meant to him. Here's something people don't think about when
they talk about Adrian Peterson. When you go back when
he played those games at the old Metro Dome, the
(37:23):
turf on that field was like that long.
Speaker 2 (37:25):
It was a slow track.
Speaker 3 (37:27):
This is your definition of a listeners right about what
three or four about two and a half okay, branches long.
It was long, like uncut grass for three weeks. The
fast turf like today's field turf is maybe a centimeter
off the foundation with those rubber pellets in there. If
he had played on some of that shorter turf where
(37:48):
he could actually dig in tougher and deliver blows and
play a little fast. I don't know if his career
would have been as long, I don't know, but the
physicality he was able to play with I always time
I went to the metronome, I was like, why would
you have this long of turf with a running back
like Adrian Peterson. I would replace this stuff and get
on a fast track. And it was just for years
(38:09):
he played all that type of turf and still put
up unbelievable numbers.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
Yeah, his first really seven seasons in the NFL, he
had one, you know, minor injury about six years in
that that caused him to miss about four games. But
he's putting up seventeen hundred yards on the ground, thirteen
hundred and twelve hundred and then the big two thousand.
He as just like a pure runner. You're giving the ball,
you know. He was not known for his like blocking ability.
(38:34):
He had a lot of big receptions actually per catch,
because if you just got him on a little swing
or anything like, he would take it to the house
a lot of times.
Speaker 4 (38:43):
I saw a lot of those on his highlights.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
But he was not as complete a back, maybe as
a Marshall falk Or Ladanian Tomlinson for instance, even that
first year where he didn't get All Pro, it was
actually Brian Westbrook in his best season or the first
team All Pro had like twenty three hundred yards. But
in terms of running the ball, lateral ability, shifting gears, like,
(39:05):
what stands out to you watching him.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
The vision of the power?
Speaker 3 (39:09):
Yeah, I mean, I mean, I'm telling you you saw
some of the hot because you know, as big and
strong as he was, like his waist, he probably had
like a twenty eight inch waist, right, So guys who'd
come in and take big shots at him, there wasn't
a ton in the mid section to hit.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
He ran kind of straight up.
Speaker 3 (39:24):
He wasn't necessarily always bone guys with the shoulders when
he ran, so he was he was dipping it like
he could.
Speaker 2 (39:29):
He could shake a guy. The great running.
Speaker 3 (39:30):
Backs could shake a guy in the phone booth or
verbial phone. But he was that guy. But then it
was just so much heat and strength behind it. You're like, Okay,
do I hit him in the thigh, which is the
strongest bastle group of his body and he's gonna, you know,
concuss me or what am I doing? Here, so he
was frustrating to play play against. And when I think
(39:50):
about it, I mean think about the twenty twelve season too.
Christian Ponder was his quarterback. Oh man, his leading receiver
was Percy Harvan.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
Like the bread farmer Barbara was gone, right, you know that?
So that brief stint Wow.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
And that's a good call that he had the two
thousand and ninety seven yards with Ponder as his quarterback.
Speaker 3 (40:07):
I mean, do you see why he got the ball
as many times as he did and they only won
ten games. They did win their final four games that
season to get into the playoffs and they're losing the
wild card. But I mean with that, dude did like
he's going to be the last running back to go
into the Hall of Fame. He's He's always won twenty seven.
He'll be the last running back to go in until
Derrick Henry probably maybe Marshawn maybe, But when you think
(40:31):
about the way football has changed, he is the last hmm,
big bellcow until you get you get to Derrick Henry.
Speaker 4 (40:39):
It's a great it's a great call.
Speaker 1 (40:40):
Now I am hoping that the voters consider my guy
Frank or overtime. I'm not saying that you get in
maybe one because he to me was a truly excellent player.
But you're right, I did not put those guys on
this list. I did think about Derrick Henry. He would
be the running back right now. Who who would have chance?
(41:00):
Certainly Gore, You know CMC. There's there's been some great bats,
but Peterson's different. And the fact on a bunch of
bad teams, he did make the NFC Championship game with
Brett fav as you mentioned, they made the playoffs a
couple of times in that eighth nine window, but he
did not have a chance to have a lot of
playoff success, and yet everyone knew he was that dude.
(41:22):
I'm gonna throw to an old colleague of ours, a
guy I used to enjoy working with on an outfit
called what was it called NFL Plus back in the day.
This is Ike Taylor being interviewed for the NFL one
hundred series.
Speaker 6 (41:39):
Does he make it the mega sent out for two years?
He gonna make it one nightmare? He's Jason Freddy Krueger Like,
when you where you talking about the Minnesota Vikers where
Adrian Peterson playing, We have to stop this.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
That was just funny to me that he made the
top one to one in a year that he didn't play.
This is enough players just voted for him anyways. He's
that's respect is Ike is the absolute Yes he is.
I enjoy watching him play so much that why not
let's actually throw it back to his time in Washington.
Not what people think of with Adrian Peterson, but him
(42:23):
ripping off. And when I went through his greatest plays,
so many of them are forty to seventy yarders. This
guy was a drive in one play, he was a
big play machine.
Speaker 7 (42:37):
My god, touchdown sixty four yards.
Speaker 4 (42:54):
I just like that he was still getting it. That
was like year twelve at the end of his career.
Speaker 3 (42:57):
And I'm telling you, man, the load he took in
the shots he took. If you were on the field
and you watch some of the shots he took before
he was coming through the little hole line of script,
he took some licks and just I know, the other
dude's worse off than me.
Speaker 1 (43:12):
It was an amazing combination of a slasher like he
is the slasher and not afraid to take contact and
get that extra two or three yards through contact like
they teach you. But also when he was in the
open field on so many of these big plays. His footwork,
just the way he would set guys up, and those
(43:32):
feet just suddenly stop start moving really quick when he's
about to, you know, make a cut. It just froze
defenders and then he gets past them and you're not
gonna catch him.
Speaker 3 (43:42):
He's a throwback. I mean, he's a seventies running back.
He's a Franco Harris guy. Mikel didn't have a speed,
but Earl Campbell type of guy. I mean, he he
would have fit so well in that era.
Speaker 1 (43:53):
All right, our next guy would have fit in absolutely
any era. I have to admit I feel bad, and
this is true for a lot of these guys coming up.
We're getting to the real meat of this list. I
feel bad for not having him higher.
Speaker 2 (44:07):
Number sixteen Drew Breese breeze.
Speaker 3 (44:11):
It's under center, the snap to spin, the fake handoff,
prop tacks, seven torsa saw passing.
Speaker 4 (44:15):
Ends one Pat Pedalley touch touchdown.
Speaker 2 (44:18):
That's craped Fine Hill. That's him, Pats the record.
Speaker 3 (44:23):
Drew Brees has thrown for more touchdown passes than any
quarterback in professional football history.
Speaker 8 (44:29):
Drew Brees is all around quarterback and anytime you think
of Drew Brees, you think about the regulasy are broken drops?
Speaker 2 (44:37):
Bat looks to the fore sideline. Why tho it's been
Drake Laont Smith.
Speaker 4 (44:41):
And Traylenn Smith is gonna go to the end zone?
Drew Brees has done it.
Speaker 2 (44:46):
You have just witness history New Orleans.
Speaker 4 (44:49):
Drew Brees is the NFL's all time leading passer.
Speaker 8 (44:53):
Thomas in the backfield. Here's the crowner shocking at the touchdown.
Jeremy Shocky in the slot to the road. All right,
the Saints are back in the end zone on a
two yard touchdown sposition.
Speaker 4 (45:05):
He'd make a habit? Did you make a habit?
Speaker 2 (45:07):
Maybe?
Speaker 8 (45:08):
Yeah? D you make it happen?
Speaker 1 (45:11):
A record setter in so many categories, the leader in
passing yards so many times, set the passing yards record,
set the touchdown mark at one point in his career.
A guy who now is second all time in passing
yards and touchdowns to Tom Brady, but a guy who
(45:36):
was as consistent as anyone could possibly be, but also
had some of the highest of highs. One of those
touchdown calls you heard there was a go ahead touchdown
to Jeremy Shockey with under six minutes to go in
the Super Bowl. Everyone remembers Tracy Porter, but it took
Drew Brees driving down the field and making it happen
(45:59):
to go take that.
Speaker 3 (46:00):
Well, I mean his competitiveness. You know, we hear this
about all the great ones was unmatched. And it's not
just on the field or training. The stories you hear
are talking to our old colleague Chase Daniel, who backed up
Drew Brees for years. Like the preparation he had in
meetings and the way he would see the field and
see the game and then was in so in tune
with Sean Payton as a play caller, was like next level.
(46:23):
Like everybody who came from playing behind Drew Brees says,
they learned how to prepare now so when they would
go to their next team, they could train younger guys
on how to study for meetings. But you know, here,
here's a really a couple cool things about Drew Brees. Okay,
other than Marcus Colston, Jeremy Shockey, Jimmy Graham, until Michael
Thomas came to the end of his career, like.
Speaker 2 (46:44):
Who are his receivers? It was a revolving door of receivers, right,
But here's a great story that Jameis Winston told me
why Drew Brees was so good because the one stat
you didn't talk about that we finally started talking about.
Speaker 3 (46:58):
Because Drew Brees completion percentage. So Jamie said, they were
playing a game. They were down two scores with like
four minutes left. So what's Jamie is thinking? We gotta
take some shots here. He's on the sideline, Breeze is playing,
and Breeze is methodically seven yards here, nine yards here.
So they end up scoring a touchdown. But there's only
like a minute a half left on the clock. So
(47:20):
Breeze is so he's like, man, why aren't you taking shots?
What are we doing with the plays we're calling? He's like, hey, hey,
protect the ball, you play within the offense, you move
the ball down the field. We see you got in
the end zone. We got a defense that can take
the ball away. We'll get another chance to get back
in there.
Speaker 2 (47:34):
They get another chance.
Speaker 3 (47:34):
They didn't win the game, but where so many quarterbacks
are thinking, Okay, you know, Jennale's pumping, we got.
Speaker 2 (47:39):
To go do this.
Speaker 3 (47:40):
Breeze is like, this is how we do things here,
this is what works. This is why Jamie's here throwing
thirty picks a season and I'm throwing nine, and it's
it's just, you know, I covered so many Saints games
during the breeze era, and just seeing I'm six to two, right,
he's he's about my height, maybe a little shorter, maybe
he's he's not as small as you think people trying
(48:01):
to diminish his size. But what Sean Payton did with
him because of his size, helped teams build their offensive
lines a certain way and open the door for shorter quarterbacks.
The Tours of the world, the Bakers of the world,
and that's built them guard to guard. Right, you talked
about Jarry Evans, one of the best guards of the
ear in some of these interior alignments. So now you
(48:23):
got a pocket, you gotta stele like Toronto Armstead and
some of these other guys here to handle the one
on one stuff. But more and more teams these days,
because of Drew Brees and the way the success had
stepping up into the pocket, build their team's guard center
guard to create throwing lanes for their shorter quarterback.
Speaker 1 (48:41):
So I love what you said about the completion percentage,
which is a stat that I thought at some points
could get a little overrated, But I think in Breeze's case,
and he finished his career five straight years over seventy percent,
like he was setting the record, Like there were three
straight years where he had like seventy two, seventy four,
seventy four percent.
Speaker 4 (48:58):
Just numbers that you've never seen before.
Speaker 1 (49:00):
Were the reason why it mattered so much, because not
just because he was making the right football play and
throwing to the open receiver, was that it was setting
up despite his reputation one of the most efficient deep
ball throwers in the history of the NFL, if you
go back and you look through his greatest plays in
(49:22):
some of the most important plays of his career, and
I went and did that this week, you know how
many of them are to Deveri Heerson and Robert Meacham
and Brandon Cooks.
Speaker 4 (49:35):
I would say plus forty, like so many. And you
want to know why that is?
Speaker 1 (49:39):
Because you're playing zone against Drew Brees and he's picked
your part eight nine eleven, eight nine eleven, and then
suddenly you get caught sleeping and there goes Brandon Cooks
for eighty nine. And you know, like how perfectly each
one of those passes were He did not have the
arm of Farvard or anything like that, but his timing
(50:03):
made up for it and turned him into I think
the most underrated deep ball thrower ever because it was
such a huge part of his game and even volume wise.
They threw a lot of deep balls even late in
his career, and they hit him because it was one
part of his excellence setting up another part.
Speaker 3 (50:19):
And look, part of the play again. I must have
covered I could pay stay tax in Louisiana. I've covered
to many Saints games in the Breeze era. But look,
they had one of the best screen games, you know,
with Reggie Bush and then Pierre Thomas. Right, so they
used the screen game as the run game. We know
how much he love the tight ends in the red zone.
I mean, Benjamin Watts, I think I got a thirteen toychdown
(50:40):
cat season.
Speaker 4 (50:41):
Shaki was great.
Speaker 3 (50:44):
I mean, so they utilized a lot of things to
set up the deep throws. But the one thing about
Breeze too, you always see he had this kind of
motion where he when he would throw it, it was
almost like, you know, the Greek god type of he
was laning back like man, how does he see? And
He just trust his preparation so much, his practice reps
so much because he's he's got this odd thing. If
(51:04):
we go back and look at his highlights, you'll see
some of those throws, but so much of it is
built on the preparation.
Speaker 2 (51:10):
Let's not forget this was a dude.
Speaker 3 (51:13):
People thought's career was over when he left the Chargers
and he had a debilitating, super damaged shoulder, to where
when he went on free agent vigits with the Dolphins
when Nick Saban was coaching them and the Saints, the
Dolphins are like, yeah, we don't think he's gonna be
able to last because of that shoulder.
Speaker 2 (51:29):
Goes to the Saints in two thousand and six.
Speaker 3 (51:31):
After they returned from San Antonio because a hurricane Katrina,
and just starts dialing it up.
Speaker 1 (51:36):
I am so glad you mentioned the San Diego years
because his entry into the NFL was really bumpy. He
did not play as a rookie.
Speaker 2 (51:48):
He I think Doug Flutie was playing.
Speaker 1 (51:50):
Doug Flutie was playing, and you know he was a
early second round pick because of the size.
Speaker 4 (51:56):
Probably he was six feet.
Speaker 1 (51:57):
You're saying he's looking at you, i'd eyes at six feet.
Speaker 4 (52:01):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (52:03):
Maybe it was because he you know, he also compared
to some of the quarterbacks, relatively slight. I remember, you know,
I've walked by him and stuff. He just in a
different setting. He looks like a normal guy. Most of
these guys don't look like No. So he he comes
in his second year after not playing as a rookie,
and he's okay, it's up and down, but he's showing promise.
(52:26):
The next year, he gets benched in the middle of
the year. They are two and nine. He is struggling.
He has more interceptions than touchdowns, doesn't totally get along
with his head coach. There's like there's kind of like
conversation of like does he have a good attitude, like
stuff like this, and now knowing his history, like he
was a competitor and that team was terrible and he
(52:48):
was put in a tough spot. Benched the draft Philip
Rivers in the next draft, Philip Rivers is going to
start over him and Breeze's career is in a really
tough place until well, Breeze until Rivers holds out a
training camp very Chargers esque contract negotiations. They can't agree
(53:08):
to a contract Breeze comes out the next year and
he wins Comeback Player of the Year. He is awesome
in training camp, he is awesome in the season. He
does not let Rivers get on the field, and he
ends up, you know, starting another year in front of
Rivers also playing well. But as you mentioned, hurts his
shoulder at the very end of it, and that sets
(53:31):
up the free agency visit where he wanted to play
with Miami, they didn't want him, and he ends up changing,
you know, a city forever and that that's he.
Speaker 2 (53:40):
Could run for governor right now, he would win one
hundred percent of the votes.
Speaker 1 (53:44):
I don't know if any one player has had a
bigger impact on their city than Drew Brees on New Orleans.
Speaker 2 (53:53):
You might be right. He is. He is worshiped. He
is held in that high regard.
Speaker 3 (53:57):
And when we think about the primiers, Greg, you know,
you're worlds a lot, You're a two lane grad. That guy,
what he did for that city, the way he embraced
that city, especially coming post Katrina. He showed up there
with Sean Payton as a tandem and six.
Speaker 1 (54:11):
Right, So that's their first season and is easily his
best season as a pro up until that point, he
gets All Pro First Team in that season. People don't remember,
they were not really high expectations. They go ten and six,
they win a playoff game, they get to the NFC
Championship game that year and get turned back and Breeze
(54:33):
you suddenly realize this marriage between him and Peyton, how
he started winning from the neck up and Lance Moore
and just that that whole team was just one of
my favorite Reggie Bush.
Speaker 2 (54:44):
Duce McAllistair. I mean, it's just so fun to watch
with teams.
Speaker 1 (54:47):
So I mentioned, I mentioned the that's his All Pro team,
and he could be higher on this list. I didn't
want it to be all quarterbacks at the top. It
could be you know, there are a number of quarterbacks.
Speaker 3 (55:00):
Hold up real quick. Ye said that was his All
Pro season. Yes, his only All Pro season.
Speaker 1 (55:05):
And that's what's tough about Breeze evalued him this way.
He had some of the best seasons ever that didn't
win MVP, and he did win second team All Pro
four different times. And it's to Manning twice, Rogers, it's
to Mahomes and right, it's it's to some of the
greatest players of all time. And his twenty eleven season,
(55:28):
and I would argue at two thousand and nine because
I actually was writing at College dcsports dot com at
the time. I thought Drew Brees should have been the
MVP that season in the regular season over Peyton Manning.
So while it doesn't look as great that he only
gets one first team All Pro two of those seasons,
man he had his strong argument for it. Rogers had
a crazy twenty eleven season and Manning was great in
(55:51):
a nine. I would have picked Breeze, but Saints fans
will tell you, like, he could easily have three MVPs,
So I'm not going to kill him that he was
like the second best player in the NFL in those seasons.
Speaker 2 (56:00):
Here's a validation. He's up to go to campon next year.
Speaker 1 (56:04):
Well, yes, there's no going Well, yeah, he's one of
those guys you don't even have to make an argue.
Speaker 4 (56:11):
So don't don't come after me.
Speaker 2 (56:14):
I'm not coming after you. I mean, I'm just saying
I'm talking about a list of I mean, I love
the dude. I love.
Speaker 3 (56:18):
I'm just kind of like, isn't it crazy that he
was this great that he's won of the leading pastors.
Speaker 2 (56:22):
Of all time?
Speaker 3 (56:23):
And they made the Pro are the All Pro Team
ONTs because again he played look at the ear. He
talked about me Yes, Manning, Brady Rogers, mahomes of some
of the great quarterbacks.
Speaker 2 (56:33):
And he only was able to make it one time.
Speaker 4 (56:34):
And yet he won. You know, it's crazy.
Speaker 1 (56:36):
He actually won two Offensive Players of the Year, so
that you would think is like a higher honor.
Speaker 4 (56:41):
But in those years where he two of those years
where he.
Speaker 1 (56:43):
Came in second for MVP, they kind of gave him
the consolation prize because he had such an incredible year
and he ends up winning Offensive Player of the Year.
He won Comeback Player of the Year. But it was
not in the year that he's coming back from that
horrible Souldier surgery hand it's getting benched. It was from
being bad in San Diego. He actually won Comeback Player
(57:05):
of the Year in San Diego. So I struggled at first.
I had Lamar Jackson over him. He was in our
first episode in the between twenty one and twenty five,
Lamar Jackson because his highs have been.
Speaker 4 (57:17):
So so high the MVP.
Speaker 1 (57:19):
And then when I looked at it, though, I was like, man,
Drew Brees' highs are pretty.
Speaker 2 (57:22):
You're not gonna get free king argue for that.
Speaker 1 (57:24):
Okay, okay, I'm just like, they are amazing, leading the
league and passing so many times. One of the best
to ever do it. Steve Weis is one of the
best to ever do I'm glad you came in for this.
Speaker 3 (57:36):
So glad you asked me to do this. When you
told me the project, you know, I was like, this
is great, and he pulled it off.
Speaker 2 (57:40):
So far, well done.
Speaker 4 (57:42):
We've just getting going here.
Speaker 1 (57:44):
Our next episode we will tackle players fifteen through twelve.
That is gonna be a lot of fun. We'll see
you next time.
Welcome to NFL Daily's Top twenty five players of the
last twenty five years. I'm Greg Rosenthal here in the
Chris Westling podcast studio alongside one of my favorite people
to talk ball with, the man Steve Weiss, who has
been covering this league NonStop for the last couple of decades,
(00:24):
mostly here at NFL Network. Are you ready to count
down from numbers twenty to number sixteen on this list?
Speaker 2 (00:31):
I am. This is such an amazing concept.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
You know when you talk about like impactful players whatever
in this list you came up with stylistically, I mean,
the fact you pulled this off, I think is CRAMPEDO.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Don't get ahead of it ourselves here, we got to
make it great. But no, we had a great first
episode with Mina Kimes. I'm looking forward to talking these
five players.
Speaker 4 (00:50):
Yay, let's get going.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Number twenty Miles Garrett.
Speaker 4 (00:57):
Burrow to throat.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Here comes Garrett.
Speaker 4 (00:59):
There it is is Miles Garrett. Welcome to the one
hundred club.
Speaker 5 (01:04):
He takes down Joe Burrow one hundred career sacks for
the future Hall of Famer.
Speaker 6 (01:10):
But yeah, you know, I wanted to know make a
known that and I'm the guy I'm number one, no
as defender, and that was a statement out I was
intended to make.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
I think I'm making He's.
Speaker 5 (01:20):
Got to try it from sixty, it's blocked, ball loose
fight fotenzel Ward picks up ward running across the Indianapolis thirty.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
That was Miles Garrett that blocked that field goal.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Jumps right over.
Speaker 5 (01:33):
He jumped right over the center man. He went superman,
no contact.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
They do uniquely that maybe other teams don't come in that.
Speaker 4 (01:42):
That maybe why you all truggle the way you'll have.
They have Miles Garrett. That's different from from everybody else.
Speaker 5 (01:47):
Under pressure from Miles, ball out, fight for to the
end zone, Miles got home again. Who's got it? Browns
tou touchdown.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Miles Garrett is single handedly taking.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Over this game.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Miles Garrett number twenty on the list. You heard the
voices of many people there, but some of our friends,
Patrick Claybon with a great voiceover, of course, but also
Andrew Ceciliano. You heard Joe Burrow talking about what's the
difference between facing them and other teams. Yeah, here's the difference.
It's Miles freaking Garrett. I'll get into all the accomplishments
(02:22):
of why he is on this list. You might notice
if you're listening, the back end of the list is
heavily weighted towards some of these current players. It's gonna
get different soon, But I just realized Garrett already has
the resume of an all time great.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Oh yeah, I mean, there's so many different ways we
can go here. First off, the fact that he has
one hundred and two sacks in eight seasons. I don't
think people understand how heart it is to get a sack,
especially when you're like the guy on the defense when
people are double teaming you. You saw some chips on
the play right there while he's blue right through him.
Plus he's six four to two seventy five, right, he's
built like a sleek defensive tackle. By comparison, TJ. Watt
(03:02):
is sixty four two fifty. So this is a massive
human being doing some of the things athletically that he does.
But the way the Cleveland also, especially Jim Schwartz, has
come in last couple of years and moved him around.
That's helped him because he's got sixty sacks past four years.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
But here's the biggest part, which shows his dominance.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
Right, like a he does not play on a team
that gets twenty point leads and is forcing the other
team to throw the ball forty five times a game.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
His team is usually trailing.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
He's had two winning seasons and played on an zero
to sixteen team, right, so his team.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Is usually trailing. So his opportunities to get to the.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Quarterback are probably far less than some other great pass
rushers like a Dwight Freene someone like that whose team
stake leads all the time. Like when you talk about
impactful greatness, this is a dude who is winning regardless
of circumstance.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Yeah, I think of the players that are going to
be on this list, who have been on this list,
including Garrett, who have done it in the toughest of situations.
I think you have to be that much better, not
only as a player to get the attention from the
national media to get those All Pros, but also to
stay strong as a man as a player, to continue
(04:19):
to chase greatness. And yeah, just to go over some
of the accomplishments off the top four first team All
Pros and two second team All Pros in seven years,
he had that Defensive Player of the Year Award from
a couple of years ago where he was just taking
over games, but he has two other seasons where he
was in the top five. Only two players in NFL
(04:41):
history have had more consecutive ten sac seasons. Those two
players are Hall of Famers Reggie White and John Randall,
and that number is still growing. Miles Garrett, I think,
is going to continue getting those numbers. I don't know
if I mean, man, if he hasn't peaked, that's something else.
Speaker 4 (04:58):
But he and TJ.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Watt, who we also hit in the first show with me,
and they were a little mind blowing for me to realize, like, Okay,
they are still playing, but actually, if you look at
their resumes and stack them up against some other Hall
of famers, they are already among the all time great
So I felt like it would not be doing a
service to Miles Garrett to just diminish him just because
(05:23):
he's in the middle of his career.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
No, yeah, I mean you can't do that. This is
going to continue to grow. It's going to be a
first ballot Hall of Fame type guy. Look, seven straight
seasons with double digit sack on the teams he's played on.
Remember and oh to sixteen team. That is insane. He's
very good against the run. You saw him block that
kick right there. I remember remember the last couple of
years he started moving him over the center h a
(05:46):
little bit. He is still one of the best athletes
in the NFL at that size. Again, it is just
there's nothing you can really do except try to go
away from him. He knows it and he still makes plays.
It is so so hard. Like in Collins, I played
the same position as this guy, sixty pounds lighter, but
(06:06):
it is so hard to get a sack in the NFL.
And think about quarterback dropping back four hundred times a
season and getting sacked thirty two times, Like that's a
hard thing to do. And he's getting double digit seven
years in a row.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
Yeah, and he's also you know, he racks it up
since he's entered the league, third in tackles for lost,
second in quarterback hits. So it's not even just the sacks,
which are just outrageous. He's the first ever player, by
the way, to have fourteen or more for four straight years,
So it's the consistency. I love what you said about
the weight. It is crazy. He actually weighs more two
(06:41):
seventy five than what Aaron Donald said. He was playing
at at the end of his career and two of
the all time greats, obviously, but a guy who when
he came out, Miles Garrett and I went back to
check some of the coverage at the time, was just
a no brainer for one overall pick because you look
(07:02):
at him and yes, all these players on this list
have a discipline and a work ethic and an intelligence,
but a lot of them also are just incredible athletic specimens.
Speaker 4 (07:16):
And I do think of Miles Garrett.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
Oh, he's one one towards the very very top of
that where if like you are creating a football player
in a lab, it is Miles Garrett. It's just it's
kind of a ridiculous person to be next to. You've
been around him. I've been around Okay, let's hear it.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
First, of his arms are like thirty inches big.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
When we see the videos of him, he's got like
eighty pound dumbbells in each hand doing thirty six inch
priometric jumps.
Speaker 4 (07:41):
Well, that's him jumping over the center.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
So that field goal block that he had a couple
of years ago, that calt Why did he have.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
To hold U my shoulder ball off.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
But he's funny when you talk about him coming out,
because I remember getting a couple of phone calls and
Don Blackman, the former Patriots linebacker, long NFL coach, father
of our Tiffany Blackman, our former COG College Tiffany Blackman,
he called me one day he was just not Texas
a and them scouting sex. To you, this guy is
going to completely change things in the NFL.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Yeah, I heard from several other people.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
Don Blackman, who was a heck of a player, a
longtime great coach himself. The way he raved about Miles Garrett,
You're like, no way, he's going to live up to
this hype and again playing that position, registering the number
of sacks he has on a team that plays with
no leads stunning.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
He's that great.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
He's the youngest player to get to one hundred sacks.
He's been on PFF's first team All Pro five straight years.
And I actually find PFF's rankings interesting, if only because
they're not as consistent as the All pers because it's
just in theory on their numbers, and yet the numbers
even have him first each and every season. That quote
we heard from Garrett was from a game this last season,
(08:49):
and I don't think of twenty twenty four as Garrett's
best season. Still was one of the very best players
and came in third in Defensive Player of the Year,
but you know it wasn't like his very best.
Speaker 4 (08:58):
But that was a game against this Steelers in TJ.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
Watt and he shows up and he says, I want
to be known as the best EDG dresher. So he
shows up, he has eight pressures, three sacks, a force
fumble and something else on Thursday night.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Football Snowglobe game.
Speaker 4 (09:13):
Because it was a big.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
Game, and that does make me think, like, man, imagine
if he was playing in more big games, because when
he's had to get up, he's gotten up for him.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
I mean, imagine if he played on a team like
the Bengals, right that could score thirty eight a game
where teams are chasing them or something like that.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
The numbers would just when you talk when you look
at the.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
Great pass rushers, even guys going back as far as
Taken Jones, and they didn't record sacks. He played with
Roman Gabriel, you know, quarterback who was an MVP team
to score points that way, So you know he's one
of those. Like as great as he is, it's almost
like a what if. And you have to think about
a former Cleveland Brown and Joe Thomas played eleven seasons,
never went to the playoffs.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
He's only been to the playoffs twice.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Miles Garrett, Well, Joe Thomas has a chance to be
on this list. I'm not doing any I'm not doing
any spoilers early, but the I will say have over
indexed on all time great players. And you mentioned the
oh to sixteen for listeners who might not be aware. Yeah,
that was Garrett's rookie season.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
It's only year he didn't have double digit sack.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
But also like, what a welcome to the NFL moment,
Poor Garrett, Poor Deshaun Kaiser going out there, you know,
not winning a single game. And you know, it's interesting
that draft he goes number one overall is a terrible
Top five in hindsight, Yes, Mitchell Trubisky two, Solomon Thomas three,
Leonard Fournette four, Corey Davis five. I have never once
(10:36):
heard anyone say that the Browns made a mistake for
drafting Miles Garrett in a draft that had Patrick Mahomes.
You always give the grief to the forty nine ers,
for instance, who needed a quarterback that year, and the
Bears especially who took Mitchell Trubisky. But no one ever says, well,
how come the Browns didn't take what Patrick bunk because
(10:57):
like you took Miles Garrett and ultimately like that, you
have to be pretty.
Speaker 4 (11:01):
Great for no one to ever bring that up.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
You know what, Brown's fans loving you right now because
that's one of the few times where they're like, wow,
they didn't make a mistake, right, but.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
Now you can say they did. But no one knew
who Patrick Mahomes was gonna be. There was a little story.
And I know you're intimately involved with the Hall of Fame.
I'll leave you with this on on Miles Garrett. He
was there with his teammates in the preseason a few
years ago, I think, playing the Hall of Fame game,
and they all went and.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
Did a tour, right but Joe Thomas went in.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
And everyone said afterwards it was like being a kid
in a candy store. It was amazing, except for Miles Garrett.
And Miles Garrett stayed on the bus all by himself
while the team toured the Hall of Fame. Because he said,
I'm not going in there until my bust is going.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
That's what I'm talking about. That's what I heard. Steve
Smith did the same things.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
That's built different. That's someone with a certain sort of confidence.
And I think it is really cool that Garrett is
going to be a Brown and if it's not for
his whole career, it's going to be for the next
handful of years. Two And you know, he's already, like
I said, the youngest player to reach hundred sex. He's
been in the league a long time. He came in
at twenty one. But he basically is it's gonna seem
(12:13):
like his whole career is with the Browns hopefully though,
and he's.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Made a lot of money from the Cleveland Browns as well.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Yes, he did not take a discount on that salary.
Know you're worth people, Miles. Garrett definitely knows it now
because he's number twenty on our list.
Speaker 4 (12:24):
All right, let's move to our next guy, number nineteen,
Zach Martin. Zach Martin.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
I always like to watch his film because he's been
doing it for a long time and he's such a
technical player, like who's technique and his effort make him stand.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Out just his past set.
Speaker 4 (12:39):
He's always seems like he's in a right position. If
somehow he does get caught, he's always recovering. He's in
a good bass.
Speaker 5 (12:48):
Anybody doubted a nickel of Zach Martin, He's worth the same.
Speaker 7 (12:52):
He's costantly kicking, kicking ass and that's just what he does.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Zach Martin, who's been one of the best in the
NFL for a.
Speaker 6 (13:00):
Long time, knows all the tricks of the trade, savvy
and got technique to go with it.
Speaker 4 (13:06):
That's a tough combination.
Speaker 5 (13:09):
Zach Martin up huge play.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
Football is such an amazing sport because we can go
through who are the best players you know these last
twenty five years, and we can have Miles Garrett, who
to me in terms of pure athletics and strength and speed,
that's what you think about when football players is number
one of who I would think of. And then the
very next guy on this list is a guy in
Zach Martin who we don't even know what play to
(13:39):
pick as like his highlight tape because he's an interior
offensive lineman who they said, quote unquote wasn't athletic enough
to play at left tackle. They move him inside to
guard and when I looked at his resume, Steve, I
just had a hard time not putting him on this
list somewhat as a representative four guards and interior offensive lineman,
(14:02):
but also just because he is that good.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
He's a great player.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
I mean, when I saw his name on there, I mean,
I don't know if you have a committee, if you
did this single handedly.
Speaker 4 (14:10):
I did it by myself.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
Bro, Like, this is.
Speaker 3 (14:13):
A stroke of genius, a guard who could be a
first ballot Hall of Famer. I mean guards usually have
to wait. Great guys like Will Shields and waited for years,
and maybe Zach ends up doing that, you know, after
retiring this past March. But it's funny when you think
of Zach Martin, all this greatness in this and that
what's the first thing that people talk about. They link
him with Johnny Manziel, right, because remember in that draft
(14:36):
in twenty fourteen, people were connecting Johnny Manzel because of
the flash Jerry Jones said a lot of positive stuff
about him in Texas.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Guy going there and they needed a quarterback and so.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
They okay, they're taking Johnny Manziel, Johnny football right here,
and they draft Zach Martin and you talk about it's
like the music park ride where.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
You're spinning it then the floor drops out.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
Everybody was like, what Zach Martin, when they could have
had Johnny Manziel, this might go down is the best
pick that they've had in the past twenty five years
in the draft. And the fact that it was such
a surprise and they get such a great player. I
mean seven first team All Pros, nine Pro Bowls and
(15:16):
he played what eleven years? You know, I mean that
is like we're keep saying, you know how hard that is,
especially today's game over the past five years, when defenses
have been like we've got the singular great edge rushers
like we talked about Miles Garrett. Now we're blitzing guys
up the A gaps, right, That's what the guards have
to do. They have to eat that right when linebackers
(15:36):
fred guys, Fred Warner and what not coming.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
With two or three yard full speed and he just
locks him up.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
And so we can talk about all the Dallas A
strong running game with Ezekiel Elliott, the protection for Dak Prescott.
When you look at a guy who did so much
and absolutely made them look like the smartest people in
the world for drafting him over Johnny Man's. Don't know
Johnny had something to do with that, but what a
brilliant stroke by the Cowboys.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Okay, I'm so glad you brought that up because I
would have forgotten. The funny thing is, you want to
give Jerry Jones credit, right, Okay, they did take Zach Martin.
Jerry Jones actually got on the podium after the Zach
Martin pick and said, we could have taken Manzel and
that would have paved the way in terms of our
(16:24):
the attention that we're getting the box office for our relevance.
He literally used the word relevance for the next decade. Christ,
but we took this other guy. He had to be convinced, yes,
into taking Zach Martin. He really wanted Johnny Manziel and
is obviously one of the best decisions the front office
ever made, and they got Jerry Jones even though they
(16:45):
got the pick. Right, don't say that you wanted Manzel
because the other guy could turn into.
Speaker 4 (16:49):
A Hall of Famer.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
So you mentioned the first team All pros nine in
eleven years total, seven first teams. He basically wasn't All
Pro every single year he was healthy healthy. The only
two years that he didn't make it were his age
thirty season and twenty twenty, first time really he ever
got injured. Before that, he essentially almost didn't miss a snap.
(17:13):
Missed a couple one game, I believe, from injury in
twenty eighteen, so he was always out there in that
entire time. The seven first team All pros, he had
exactly seven holding calls. I mean, if that that's the
thing I went through, and I did not have Martin
on my initial list, and I went through everything in
(17:36):
some of his numbers, and then some of the things
I read from different offensive line analysts who know the
position even better than me, really believed that the gap
between Martin and the next best guard of his era
was maybe bigger than the gap at any position between
any player.
Speaker 4 (17:53):
So that's hard to disagree with that.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
I mean, it's really hard to disagree with that.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
He is one of the most dominant we could talk
about interior what he's one of the most dominant linemen
over the past thirty or so years for what he did,
because again, the game has changed. You got all the
A gap action, right, You've got the Aaron Donalds and
guys like that, the defensive tackles who are making big
money now a lot more than guards. You know, that's
that's where they rekl and nobody beat him. But the
(18:19):
seven holding calls, there was always this great stat like
I forget you know what is the ell the Cowboys?
They have seven first downs on that drive. Oh that's
ties just as many holding calls as sackmart.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
Right in his career, and only twenty one total penalty.
So that includes false starts and any anything else. And
if you compare that, and it's not totally fair, but
if you compare that to other all time greats at
on the offensive line and tackles interior, he really did
stand out. And they say, you know, everything I read
(18:52):
about him is is his footwork, it's his technique, and
I think with all offensive linemen, it's the ability to
stay so mentally engaged in so that you can do
it each and every single snap without making anyone Well.
Speaker 3 (19:03):
The fact you think he called it holding is right
is the brilliance of technique, because you know, it's all
inside hand control or to leverage a guy this way.
That was so you're grabbing right cloth control was what
they call you're you're in here grabbing dude. In the
fact he never got caught man's he stayed in here.
You know, strong, you have to be, whether it's upper
body or you're squat, and then you've got this type
of technique.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Like this dude.
Speaker 6 (19:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
When I saw him on it, I was like Greg
Rosenthal as that guy.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Okay, well, offensive Rookie of the Year his first year.
He got a number of votes, which is really saying
something because he's a guard. You just don't see those
guys get offensively. He was first team All Pro as
a rookie because he came in and if you'll remember
that twenty fourteen Cowboys season was Tony Romo's best season.
(19:47):
He got MVP votes. He their offense went to a
whole another level. I think it was DeMarco Murray won
the rushing title. It is not coincidence that Martin comes in.
They get two more rushing titles the way with Martin
there with Ezekiel Elliott. So Romo I read some things
that he said about Martin and he said he's the
(20:07):
only player he's ever seen that when he came on
to the team as I was a rookie, I mean,
he was like, not only the best player at his position,
but he was maybe the best player on the offense
when he joined the team. And that's that's saying something
for a guy who was third in MVP voting that
year and DeMarco Murray's winning everything. So he came in
just absolutely no weaknesses and we had to give him.
Speaker 4 (20:32):
Some love and I have well done.
Speaker 8 (20:33):
Well.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
You have to admit though he's the only interior offensive
lineman that's going to be on this list.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
Good for you.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
So I apologize if any people are curious out there,
just guys that because I like to give a little
bit of a shoutout guys who did did not make
the list. And we'll do this sometimes when we hit
a position that's going to be last time we have
that position. Steve Hutchinson was tough to leave off five
first Team All pros, was all the All two thousands.
Speaker 4 (20:57):
I mean, yeah, a.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Lot of Hall of Famers are getting loftof. Alan Fanica,
Jarrey Evans are also not on this list, and neither
is Jason Kelcey. Different position, but that was a tough
one too, So I wanted Martin is kind of representing
them all.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Man, that's a big flag. He's planning right here.
Speaker 4 (21:14):
By you, I mean.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
The Jason Kelce one too, because he has six first
team All pros. But just the way people talked about him,
there's a guy Mike Gettings who runs a pro scouting
service called pro Scout that the NFL uses he was
the scout I was referring to.
Speaker 4 (21:30):
That said.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
The only gap he thought in his entire career that
was similar at another position was how they used to
talk about Dwight Stevenson at center back in the day,
that he would put Zack Martin right there with the
greatest guards of all time. So Zach Martin, number nineteen.
Let's move on to our next guy on the list.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
Number eighteen, Julius Peppers moving away off the Pauls cost to.
Speaker 7 (22:01):
Julius Peppers headed so long Peppers, Oh.
Speaker 4 (22:07):
Man, oh man, you know who hit him? It was
Fields number fifty eight came in and just runch, Michael Vick.
Speaker 8 (22:14):
There isn't a man on this field that's gonna catch
Julius Peppers when wat's his look at the athletic ability
to him, he just one.
Speaker 4 (22:22):
Hands the ball and goodbye. It's gonna give me ro respecto.
I'm gonna take it how you.
Speaker 7 (22:30):
Want it.
Speaker 9 (22:30):
He has two distinct sides to his personality. There's Julius
laid back, chill, nonchalant, and then there's the football player
they call Pip explosive, disrupted, relentless.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
We can get into so much with Julius Peppers, but
let's start with the first play that we heard there.
That was Mike Patrick and Paul McGuire, both great broadcasters
with ESPN rest in Peace. Mike Patrick recently passed away,
and that interception return where Peppers, you know, picks it
up one handed and then runs at that size for
(23:13):
the touchdown, to me, exemplifies just how he was an
athlete that is just rare in every possible way.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
Yeah, I think I actually cover that game. When I
was covering that, like wow, in the tackle that he beat,
Todd Weiner was like a really good player. He was
Michael Vick's blindside tackle. And it's funny two years ago,
you know, I did the door Knocks the Hall of
Fame crew, and two years ago and Bruce Smith was
knocking on his door.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
We're going through the whole process.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
I kept saying to myself, like, man, you know, Julius
Peppers is a first ballot Hall of Famer, And then
you don't realize he's got the fourth most sacks of
all time, right, one hundred and fifty nine and a half,
because what you just mentioned, everyone thinks of Julie Peppers
because you played basketball in north as an athlete. Right,
you don't look at him like the same way you know,
we talked about Miles Garrett or Lawrence Taylor or Deacon Jones,
(24:02):
like is that badass edge rusher who's just taking names
and putting bodies in the ground. Right, you look at
him as a super athlete who got his way downe.
But then you just look at the fact eleven interceptions,
four of them return for touchdown. Now you're when you're
six eight, Okay, you know part of that, But I
mean it's it's two All decade teams, Right, this guy
(24:24):
played for eighteen years.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
That's what did it. That's what did it, Steve. That's
what helped push him on this list. When I saw
that he was second team Hall of Fame All Decade
in the two thousands for the Hall of Fame and
actually first team from Pro Football Reference they do their
own list, and I thought that was an interesting other
voice to listen to in the two thousands, and then
(24:46):
he's also on the Hall of Fame All twenty tens
and second team for the Pro Football Reference All twenty tens.
That was what did it, because I'm not I'm trying
not to over reward longevity. I want to be about
like greatness. But he did have that high level greatness
and the longevity put it over the top for me.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
But he wasn't a compiler.
Speaker 3 (25:07):
Right now, a lot of people are like, oh, Frank
Gor's got these great numbers, But he was a compiler
because he played for so long. Pep was still giving
me double digit sacks in years fourteen fifteen playing for
the Bears, playing for the Packers, he was still putting
up big numbers. And you know, unlike Miles Garrett and
he played on some really good Panthers teams. He played
in Super Bowls, right, he really affected things. But in
(25:28):
covering that division when I worked in Atlanta from two
thousand and five to two thousand and eight, like the
Panthers were the team. It's always the Panthers and the Falcons,
and everyone's trying to out athlete each other. Right, you know,
the Panthers got Thomas Davis because he was a hybrid
safety linebacker who could spy Michael Vick. He's the guy
who could run with Michael Vick. And then you see
Julius Peppers, like there's no body on the offensive line,
(25:51):
there's no running back or whatever that could handle him,
whether it be power, whether it be finesse. And because
Pep didn't say much whore I'm talking about a smack
on that video clip, but perhaps a real quiet guy.
You know, he never you never were just like, man,
he took over a game and you're just saying yourself,
he made a spectacular play here and there, but he
never took over a game. So you're wondering, like, is
(26:15):
he really that guy? And then you go back and
think about, like, oh yeah, he really was. What was
I watching right?
Speaker 1 (26:20):
And it kind of accumulated slowly because he won Defensive
Rookie of the Year, he was thought he was the
number two overall pick in the draft and viewed as,
you know, a generational type of athlete.
Speaker 4 (26:30):
I actually think him and Garrett.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
Have a lot of similarity, I agree of coming out
of the draft, and there was a sense in Carolina
could he be even more? But three first team All Pros,
three second team All Pros, and like you mentioned, those
are sprinkled over a number of years. Only player ever
with one hundred sacks and ten interceptions. And one thing
that strikes me is he got to the end of
(26:52):
these contracts, So that says a lot. Yeah, seven years
with the Panthers and then he signs a record breaking
at the time defensive contract for the Bear ends up
four years with the Bears, lasted a while there, he
did get cut by the Bears. Then he gets a
three year big contract from the Packers at thirty four
years old. He plays through the end of that contract
and played very well. He you know, I asked Ross
(27:16):
Tucker about him who went up against him, you know,
just on text and everything, and he said he thinks
he's the most athletic player he ever played against. And
actually it was Peppers or it was either Ross's first
game or I think Pepper's first game that he says
he put Ross on the ground and literally jumped over him.
So that's the type of thing that he did. I
want to talk about a two play sequence in this
(27:40):
was back in two thousand and four, just sort of
as an example of how great Peppers was and what
kind of player he was. If younger fans maybe don't
have an idea, it was a two play sequence against
the Broncos, and if you have a chance, we are
doing these show on YouTube as well, so everyone checked
that out. But there's a run at the one yard
(28:00):
line where Jake Plummer is going to the edge and
he absolutely has the angle on Julius Peppers. This is
an athletic player and Peppers somehow runs him down. This
is at the end of a ten play drive. The
very next play after Pepper's in theory call, Win did
backs up in coverage. I challenge a cornerback to have
(28:20):
that good coverage and he goes over one hundred yards
and he does not make it to the very end,
falls on his back. I think it's one hundred and
three yards, but he only gets to the three yard line.
But those two plays in a row. He said he
was sucking wind before that play even started because he
had just run down Plumber and then he ends up
having this long interception return, and that to me is
(28:44):
kind of an example of what kind of freaky.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
Was And for people again who don't realize this, Jake
Plumber was a hell of an app Yes, he's a
dude who used to run all the time he was
on the move. And for Pep just to chase him
down like that and then make this play, I mean,
that's absolutely fantastic. Now, the linebacker who's trying to get
the plumbers to had turned around and picked off the guy,
so so Pep could have got to the house. But still,
here's your thing. Fifty two forced fumbles. So you think
(29:08):
about that, he had eleven picks and fifty two forced fumbles. Right,
that's an opportunity for sixty three changed possessions. That is
a that is the ultimate difference maker, regardless of who
he's playing for. That's why he's able to play in
Super Bowl and do some of the great things that
he did.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
I think of players on this list, they got to
stand out to me, and Pepper's he just felt like
he was a player from the future. You could you know,
he was drafted now twenty years ago, and if he
was you know more than that, right, twenty three years ago,
if you dropped him in the two thousand and twenty
five class, he would still be the number one.
Speaker 4 (29:47):
Pick, number two pick.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
Yeah, first or second pick.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
You know what, I mean like he was from the future.
As great as he looks on these clips, you know now,
just comparing him to what was going on back then.
One thing under about him maybe his motor. He missed
four games as a rookie after that, only two more
his entire career. And if you look at like the
percentage of snaps he was on the field, he didn't
(30:11):
come off like he did not come off the field.
So he was a guy who made it onto my
list late. I had some tough decisions. He went in
over Freey, he went in over von Miller. If I
did this list again, like he might be on it
next time. I had a hard time leaving von Miller off.
But he is over von Miller, He is over Jason
Taylor and some more of the great passers.
Speaker 3 (30:33):
We're talking about a pass rusher for the future, Like
can you imagine he played in Dom Caper's thirty four
where they played the hard edge setting defensive. If he
was played would play like a wide nine, like the
stuff Solid does and the stuff that Vic Fangio does.
How he could get one on one matchups. His numbers
would be bigger than they are now.
Speaker 4 (30:50):
Absolutely so.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
Julius Pepper's on the list, and yeah, if you're thinking
about edge players. By the way, Michael Strahan was a
really tough guy to leave because a lot of the
great part of his career was in the nineties. So
the twenty five year cutoff hurt Michael Strahan. Although he
was pretty awesome, yes he was in the two thousands.
He had a very strong case. So it's very tough
to pick these guys, but I think Julius will do
(31:14):
us proud. All Right, we'll be back after this the
next two players back on NFL Daily talking about the
best twenty five players of the last twenty five years.
Steve and you suggested we should do a show on
(31:37):
the omissions.
Speaker 4 (31:38):
I don't want to make people mad, though maybe after like.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
This list, any list is going to make people mad
about who's not on.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Well, yeah, they won't know until until we get to
the end. Although I'm spoiling it a little bit. We
might have to do a follow up with some reaction,
maybe a male band. If anyone thinks that I got
anything really wrong. I don't think unless people are crazy,
there's gonna be any arguments about the next guy on
our list.
Speaker 4 (32:05):
Number seventeen Adrian Peterson.
Speaker 8 (32:09):
This is perhaps one of the greatest single handed runs
I've seen, and Adrian Peterson just refused to go down.
Speaker 4 (32:18):
Handoff.
Speaker 5 (32:19):
On third down, he runs to a first down, he
squats to the far side across the fifty.
Speaker 4 (32:24):
He breaks the tackle and Adrian Peterson is loose.
Speaker 7 (32:27):
He has scored.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
As sixty five yard touchdown.
Speaker 6 (32:35):
Guess right to make of vich generation would be Adrian
Peters with.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
The mindset I had, you know, and then the guy
that have will front. You know, I know anything that's possible.
Speaker 9 (32:44):
That's why I continue to do the things, you know,
working hard in practice.
Speaker 8 (32:49):
Just the slightest of openings that Peterson goes all the way,
I'll let.
Speaker 6 (32:55):
To work right to Adrian Peterson as an animal, I mean,
the guys just relentless.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
He doesn't.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
Adrian Peterson came into the NFL as one of the
best college runners in history of Oklahoma. In day one
in the NFL, he was one of, if not the
best running backs in the NFL four first team All
pros a few more seconds, the last non quarterback to
(33:25):
win the MVP back in two.
Speaker 4 (33:28):
Thousand and twelve.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
I'll let you go with you like your first your
first memory, instinct anything covering this guy.
Speaker 3 (33:37):
Well, look, my first thing is the first time I Dumby,
I shook his hand, right, So you always heard like,
oh and Adrian Peterson shakes your hand, he's gonna break it.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
He broke it. I was like, what did I do?
Speaker 3 (33:46):
Man? Like, what did I do? So every time I
actually we're fist bumping. I mean that thing is real.
And you know, you hear about guys who are real
strong in the weight room. I don't know what he
did the weight room, but he's got what I call
pipe bending shrink, Like he could just take a freaking
engine blockout with his bare hands. He's so strong. And
then you couple that with the speed in the vision
because the Vikings made no bones about what they were
(34:07):
going to do with him in the backfield, They're giving
him the ball, he's gonna run it.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
Try and stop me with you can'to.
Speaker 3 (34:13):
He had a really good offensive line in front of him,
but there were still guys who were able to try
to get to him, and either he shook them knocked
them over.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
It was it was amazing.
Speaker 3 (34:22):
Like I tell people, one thing that that blew my mind,
blows my mind about Adrian Peterson was. He played for
as long as he did because after a year or
two people realized how strong he was, they would load
up on him. I mean I saw him take some
shots that would knock people out. He just ran right
through them, got up, and you know what, it just deflated.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
I forget.
Speaker 3 (34:43):
It was a game in the Metrodome against somebody to
dB hit him as hard as I've seen a player
ever get hit, and he just shook it off like, Okay,
that's you know.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
All day, that's my name all day.
Speaker 3 (34:54):
You're gonna be feeling that that dB was like, man,
you know that dude just walked through my right hand basically.
And and the fact that he just did all of
that was exemplified to twenty twelve. Rosie when he comes
off the torn acl at the end Christmas Eve of
twenty eleven, comes back the next year in Leslie Frayer's
coaching the Vikings and Rushes for almost twenty one hundred
(35:16):
yards right. They gave him the ball three hundred and
forty eight times off of a torn acl and he
put up two thousand yards running the ball like he's
that specially, he had over a thousand yards like at
the end of his career when he was playing for Washington.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
Right, and he's on this list because of those first
you know, seven years when he did not leave the
field and we remember him, you know, leading the NFL
and rushing coming off that torn acl That two thousand
and twelve season that you mentioned, that was the year
he won the MVP. That was the year he goes
(35:56):
for two thousand and ninety seven rushing yards still the
second most ever twenty three hundred yards from scrimmage. And
of all the guys on this list that have gone
back and watched some of the highlights, I think he
put the biggest smile on my face, just just like
watching this dude gallop in the open field. Some people
(36:18):
are just born to do something, and this man was
born to run a football and you could see the
joy that he played with. He obviously played with a toughness,
but I just felt like running hard is a skill
and running backs can only do it for so long.
You only have maybe so many times you're gonna get hit.
(36:40):
If there was a metric for running hard. To me,
he's my all time leader in running hard per carry
because every single carry of his.
Speaker 4 (36:49):
Career he brought that juice.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
And that's why I despite all the injuries that slowed
him down in the back half of his career, he
still played till he was thirty six because he still
was helping a team out by just running that hard.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
Well.
Speaker 3 (37:02):
I mean, remember the season when he kept on fumbling
the ball because he was trying to get the extra yard.
That was the thing he was always trying to get
the X yar guys are punching out. It comes back
to the next year and doesn't put the ball on the ground.
I mean, it goes to show you how much it
meant to him. Here's something people don't think about when
they talk about Adrian Peterson. When you go back when
he played those games at the old Metro Dome, the
(37:23):
turf on that field was like that long.
Speaker 2 (37:25):
It was a slow track.
Speaker 3 (37:27):
This is your definition of a listeners right about what
three or four about two and a half okay, branches long.
It was long, like uncut grass for three weeks. The
fast turf like today's field turf is maybe a centimeter
off the foundation with those rubber pellets in there. If
he had played on some of that shorter turf where
(37:48):
he could actually dig in tougher and deliver blows and
play a little fast. I don't know if his career
would have been as long, I don't know, but the
physicality he was able to play with I always time
I went to the metronome, I was like, why would
you have this long of turf with a running back
like Adrian Peterson. I would replace this stuff and get
on a fast track. And it was just for years
(38:09):
he played all that type of turf and still put
up unbelievable numbers.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
Yeah, his first really seven seasons in the NFL, he
had one, you know, minor injury about six years in
that that caused him to miss about four games. But
he's putting up seventeen hundred yards on the ground, thirteen
hundred and twelve hundred and then the big two thousand.
He as just like a pure runner. You're giving the ball,
you know. He was not known for his like blocking ability.
(38:34):
He had a lot of big receptions actually per catch,
because if you just got him on a little swing
or anything like, he would take it to the house
a lot of times.
Speaker 4 (38:43):
I saw a lot of those on his highlights.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
But he was not as complete a back, maybe as
a Marshall falk Or Ladanian Tomlinson for instance, even that
first year where he didn't get All Pro, it was
actually Brian Westbrook in his best season or the first
team All Pro had like twenty three hundred yards. But
in terms of running the ball, lateral ability, shifting gears, like,
(39:05):
what stands out to you watching him.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
The vision of the power?
Speaker 3 (39:09):
Yeah, I mean, I mean, I'm telling you you saw
some of the hot because you know, as big and
strong as he was, like his waist, he probably had
like a twenty eight inch waist, right, So guys who'd
come in and take big shots at him, there wasn't
a ton in the mid section to hit.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
He ran kind of straight up.
Speaker 3 (39:24):
He wasn't necessarily always bone guys with the shoulders when
he ran, so he was he was dipping it like
he could.
Speaker 2 (39:29):
He could shake a guy. The great running.
Speaker 3 (39:30):
Backs could shake a guy in the phone booth or
verbial phone. But he was that guy. But then it
was just so much heat and strength behind it. You're like, Okay,
do I hit him in the thigh, which is the
strongest bastle group of his body and he's gonna, you know,
concuss me or what am I doing? Here, so he
was frustrating to play play against. And when I think
(39:50):
about it, I mean think about the twenty twelve season too.
Christian Ponder was his quarterback. Oh man, his leading receiver
was Percy Harvan.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
Like the bread farmer Barbara was gone, right, you know that?
So that brief stint Wow.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
And that's a good call that he had the two
thousand and ninety seven yards with Ponder as his quarterback.
Speaker 3 (40:07):
I mean, do you see why he got the ball
as many times as he did and they only won
ten games. They did win their final four games that
season to get into the playoffs and they're losing the
wild card. But I mean with that, dude did like
he's going to be the last running back to go
into the Hall of Fame. He's He's always won twenty seven.
He'll be the last running back to go in until
Derrick Henry probably maybe Marshawn maybe, But when you think
(40:31):
about the way football has changed, he is the last hmm,
big bellcow until you get you get to Derrick Henry.
Speaker 4 (40:39):
It's a great it's a great call.
Speaker 1 (40:40):
Now I am hoping that the voters consider my guy
Frank or overtime. I'm not saying that you get in
maybe one because he to me was a truly excellent player.
But you're right, I did not put those guys on
this list. I did think about Derrick Henry. He would
be the running back right now. Who who would have chance?
(41:00):
Certainly Gore, You know CMC. There's there's been some great bats,
but Peterson's different. And the fact on a bunch of
bad teams, he did make the NFC Championship game with
Brett fav as you mentioned, they made the playoffs a
couple of times in that eighth nine window, but he
did not have a chance to have a lot of
playoff success, and yet everyone knew he was that dude.
(41:22):
I'm gonna throw to an old colleague of ours, a
guy I used to enjoy working with on an outfit
called what was it called NFL Plus back in the day.
This is Ike Taylor being interviewed for the NFL one
hundred series.
Speaker 6 (41:39):
Does he make it the mega sent out for two years?
He gonna make it one nightmare? He's Jason Freddy Krueger Like,
when you where you talking about the Minnesota Vikers where
Adrian Peterson playing, We have to stop this.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
That was just funny to me that he made the
top one to one in a year that he didn't play.
This is enough players just voted for him anyways. He's
that's respect is Ike is the absolute Yes he is.
I enjoy watching him play so much that why not
let's actually throw it back to his time in Washington.
Not what people think of with Adrian Peterson, but him
(42:23):
ripping off. And when I went through his greatest plays,
so many of them are forty to seventy yarders. This
guy was a drive in one play, he was a
big play machine.
Speaker 7 (42:37):
My god, touchdown sixty four yards.
Speaker 4 (42:54):
I just like that he was still getting it. That
was like year twelve at the end of his career.
Speaker 3 (42:57):
And I'm telling you, man, the load he took in
the shots he took. If you were on the field
and you watch some of the shots he took before
he was coming through the little hole line of script,
he took some licks and just I know, the other
dude's worse off than me.
Speaker 1 (43:12):
It was an amazing combination of a slasher like he
is the slasher and not afraid to take contact and
get that extra two or three yards through contact like
they teach you. But also when he was in the
open field on so many of these big plays. His footwork,
just the way he would set guys up, and those
(43:32):
feet just suddenly stop start moving really quick when he's
about to, you know, make a cut. It just froze
defenders and then he gets past them and you're not
gonna catch him.
Speaker 3 (43:42):
He's a throwback. I mean, he's a seventies running back.
He's a Franco Harris guy. Mikel didn't have a speed,
but Earl Campbell type of guy. I mean, he he
would have fit so well in that era.
Speaker 1 (43:53):
All right, our next guy would have fit in absolutely
any era. I have to admit I feel bad, and
this is true for a lot of these guys coming up.
We're getting to the real meat of this list. I
feel bad for not having him higher.
Speaker 2 (44:07):
Number sixteen Drew Breese breeze.
Speaker 3 (44:11):
It's under center, the snap to spin, the fake handoff,
prop tacks, seven torsa saw passing.
Speaker 4 (44:15):
Ends one Pat Pedalley touch touchdown.
Speaker 2 (44:18):
That's craped Fine Hill. That's him, Pats the record.
Speaker 3 (44:23):
Drew Brees has thrown for more touchdown passes than any
quarterback in professional football history.
Speaker 8 (44:29):
Drew Brees is all around quarterback and anytime you think
of Drew Brees, you think about the regulasy are broken drops?
Speaker 2 (44:37):
Bat looks to the fore sideline. Why tho it's been
Drake Laont Smith.
Speaker 4 (44:41):
And Traylenn Smith is gonna go to the end zone?
Drew Brees has done it.
Speaker 2 (44:46):
You have just witness history New Orleans.
Speaker 4 (44:49):
Drew Brees is the NFL's all time leading passer.
Speaker 8 (44:53):
Thomas in the backfield. Here's the crowner shocking at the touchdown.
Jeremy Shocky in the slot to the road. All right,
the Saints are back in the end zone on a
two yard touchdown sposition.
Speaker 4 (45:05):
He'd make a habit? Did you make a habit?
Speaker 2 (45:07):
Maybe?
Speaker 8 (45:08):
Yeah? D you make it happen?
Speaker 1 (45:11):
A record setter in so many categories, the leader in
passing yards so many times, set the passing yards record,
set the touchdown mark at one point in his career.
A guy who now is second all time in passing
yards and touchdowns to Tom Brady, but a guy who
(45:36):
was as consistent as anyone could possibly be, but also
had some of the highest of highs. One of those
touchdown calls you heard there was a go ahead touchdown
to Jeremy Shockey with under six minutes to go in
the Super Bowl. Everyone remembers Tracy Porter, but it took
Drew Brees driving down the field and making it happen
(45:59):
to go take that.
Speaker 3 (46:00):
Well, I mean his competitiveness. You know, we hear this
about all the great ones was unmatched. And it's not
just on the field or training. The stories you hear
are talking to our old colleague Chase Daniel, who backed up
Drew Brees for years. Like the preparation he had in
meetings and the way he would see the field and
see the game and then was in so in tune
with Sean Payton as a play caller, was like next level.
(46:23):
Like everybody who came from playing behind Drew Brees says,
they learned how to prepare now so when they would
go to their next team, they could train younger guys
on how to study for meetings. But you know, here,
here's a really a couple cool things about Drew Brees. Okay,
other than Marcus Colston, Jeremy Shockey, Jimmy Graham, until Michael
Thomas came to the end of his career, like.
Speaker 2 (46:44):
Who are his receivers? It was a revolving door of receivers, right,
But here's a great story that Jameis Winston told me
why Drew Brees was so good because the one stat
you didn't talk about that we finally started talking about.
Speaker 3 (46:58):
Because Drew Brees completion percentage. So Jamie said, they were
playing a game. They were down two scores with like
four minutes left. So what's Jamie is thinking? We gotta
take some shots here. He's on the sideline, Breeze is playing,
and Breeze is methodically seven yards here, nine yards here.
So they end up scoring a touchdown. But there's only
like a minute a half left on the clock. So
(47:20):
Breeze is so he's like, man, why aren't you taking shots?
What are we doing with the plays we're calling? He's like, hey, hey,
protect the ball, you play within the offense, you move
the ball down the field. We see you got in
the end zone. We got a defense that can take
the ball away. We'll get another chance to get back
in there.
Speaker 2 (47:34):
They get another chance.
Speaker 3 (47:34):
They didn't win the game, but where so many quarterbacks
are thinking, Okay, you know, Jennale's pumping, we got.
Speaker 2 (47:39):
To go do this.
Speaker 3 (47:40):
Breeze is like, this is how we do things here,
this is what works. This is why Jamie's here throwing
thirty picks a season and I'm throwing nine, and it's
it's just, you know, I covered so many Saints games
during the breeze era, and just seeing I'm six to two, right,
he's he's about my height, maybe a little shorter, maybe
he's he's not as small as you think people trying
(48:01):
to diminish his size. But what Sean Payton did with
him because of his size, helped teams build their offensive
lines a certain way and open the door for shorter quarterbacks.
The Tours of the world, the Bakers of the world,
and that's built them guard to guard. Right, you talked
about Jarry Evans, one of the best guards of the
ear in some of these interior alignments. So now you
(48:23):
got a pocket, you gotta stele like Toronto Armstead and
some of these other guys here to handle the one
on one stuff. But more and more teams these days,
because of Drew Brees and the way the success had
stepping up into the pocket, build their team's guard center
guard to create throwing lanes for their shorter quarterback.
Speaker 1 (48:41):
So I love what you said about the completion percentage,
which is a stat that I thought at some points
could get a little overrated, But I think in Breeze's case,
and he finished his career five straight years over seventy percent,
like he was setting the record, Like there were three
straight years where he had like seventy two, seventy four,
seventy four percent.
Speaker 4 (48:58):
Just numbers that you've never seen before.
Speaker 1 (49:00):
Were the reason why it mattered so much, because not
just because he was making the right football play and
throwing to the open receiver, was that it was setting
up despite his reputation one of the most efficient deep
ball throwers in the history of the NFL, if you
go back and you look through his greatest plays in
(49:22):
some of the most important plays of his career, and
I went and did that this week, you know how
many of them are to Deveri Heerson and Robert Meacham
and Brandon Cooks.
Speaker 4 (49:35):
I would say plus forty, like so many. And you
want to know why that is?
Speaker 1 (49:39):
Because you're playing zone against Drew Brees and he's picked
your part eight nine eleven, eight nine eleven, and then
suddenly you get caught sleeping and there goes Brandon Cooks
for eighty nine. And you know, like how perfectly each
one of those passes were He did not have the
arm of Farvard or anything like that, but his timing
(50:03):
made up for it and turned him into I think
the most underrated deep ball thrower ever because it was
such a huge part of his game and even volume wise.
They threw a lot of deep balls even late in
his career, and they hit him because it was one
part of his excellence setting up another part.
Speaker 3 (50:19):
And look, part of the play again. I must have
covered I could pay stay tax in Louisiana. I've covered
to many Saints games in the Breeze era. But look,
they had one of the best screen games, you know,
with Reggie Bush and then Pierre Thomas. Right, so they
used the screen game as the run game. We know
how much he love the tight ends in the red zone.
I mean, Benjamin Watts, I think I got a thirteen toychdown
(50:40):
cat season.
Speaker 4 (50:41):
Shaki was great.
Speaker 3 (50:44):
I mean, so they utilized a lot of things to
set up the deep throws. But the one thing about
Breeze too, you always see he had this kind of
motion where he when he would throw it, it was
almost like, you know, the Greek god type of he
was laning back like man, how does he see? And
He just trust his preparation so much, his practice reps
so much because he's he's got this odd thing. If
(51:04):
we go back and look at his highlights, you'll see
some of those throws, but so much of it is
built on the preparation.
Speaker 2 (51:10):
Let's not forget this was a dude.
Speaker 3 (51:13):
People thought's career was over when he left the Chargers
and he had a debilitating, super damaged shoulder, to where
when he went on free agent vigits with the Dolphins
when Nick Saban was coaching them and the Saints, the
Dolphins are like, yeah, we don't think he's gonna be
able to last because of that shoulder.
Speaker 2 (51:29):
Goes to the Saints in two thousand and six.
Speaker 3 (51:31):
After they returned from San Antonio because a hurricane Katrina,
and just starts dialing it up.
Speaker 1 (51:36):
I am so glad you mentioned the San Diego years
because his entry into the NFL was really bumpy. He
did not play as a rookie.
Speaker 2 (51:48):
He I think Doug Flutie was playing.
Speaker 1 (51:50):
Doug Flutie was playing, and you know he was a
early second round pick because of the size.
Speaker 4 (51:56):
Probably he was six feet.
Speaker 1 (51:57):
You're saying he's looking at you, i'd eyes at six feet.
Speaker 4 (52:01):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (52:03):
Maybe it was because he you know, he also compared
to some of the quarterbacks, relatively slight. I remember, you know,
I've walked by him and stuff. He just in a
different setting. He looks like a normal guy. Most of
these guys don't look like No. So he he comes
in his second year after not playing as a rookie,
and he's okay, it's up and down, but he's showing promise.
(52:26):
The next year, he gets benched in the middle of
the year. They are two and nine. He is struggling.
He has more interceptions than touchdowns, doesn't totally get along
with his head coach. There's like there's kind of like
conversation of like does he have a good attitude, like
stuff like this, and now knowing his history, like he
was a competitor and that team was terrible and he
(52:48):
was put in a tough spot. Benched the draft Philip
Rivers in the next draft, Philip Rivers is going to
start over him and Breeze's career is in a really
tough place until well, Breeze until Rivers holds out a
training camp very Chargers esque contract negotiations. They can't agree
(53:08):
to a contract Breeze comes out the next year and
he wins Comeback Player of the Year. He is awesome
in training camp, he is awesome in the season. He
does not let Rivers get on the field, and he
ends up, you know, starting another year in front of
Rivers also playing well. But as you mentioned, hurts his
shoulder at the very end of it, and that sets
(53:31):
up the free agency visit where he wanted to play
with Miami, they didn't want him, and he ends up changing,
you know, a city forever and that that's he.
Speaker 2 (53:40):
Could run for governor right now, he would win one
hundred percent of the votes.
Speaker 1 (53:44):
I don't know if any one player has had a
bigger impact on their city than Drew Brees on New Orleans.
Speaker 2 (53:53):
You might be right. He is. He is worshiped. He
is held in that high regard.
Speaker 3 (53:57):
And when we think about the primiers, Greg, you know,
you're worlds a lot, You're a two lane grad. That guy,
what he did for that city, the way he embraced
that city, especially coming post Katrina. He showed up there
with Sean Payton as a tandem and six.
Speaker 1 (54:11):
Right, So that's their first season and is easily his
best season as a pro up until that point, he
gets All Pro First Team in that season. People don't remember,
they were not really high expectations. They go ten and six,
they win a playoff game, they get to the NFC
Championship game that year and get turned back and Breeze
(54:33):
you suddenly realize this marriage between him and Peyton, how
he started winning from the neck up and Lance Moore
and just that that whole team was just one of
my favorite Reggie Bush.
Speaker 2 (54:44):
Duce McAllistair. I mean, it's just so fun to watch
with teams.
Speaker 1 (54:47):
So I mentioned, I mentioned the that's his All Pro team,
and he could be higher on this list. I didn't
want it to be all quarterbacks at the top. It
could be you know, there are a number of quarterbacks.
Speaker 3 (55:00):
Hold up real quick. Ye said that was his All
Pro season. Yes, his only All Pro season.
Speaker 1 (55:05):
And that's what's tough about Breeze evalued him this way.
He had some of the best seasons ever that didn't
win MVP, and he did win second team All Pro
four different times. And it's to Manning twice, Rogers, it's
to Mahomes and right, it's it's to some of the
greatest players of all time. And his twenty eleven season,
(55:28):
and I would argue at two thousand and nine because
I actually was writing at College dcsports dot com at
the time. I thought Drew Brees should have been the
MVP that season in the regular season over Peyton Manning.
So while it doesn't look as great that he only
gets one first team All Pro two of those seasons,
man he had his strong argument for it. Rogers had
a crazy twenty eleven season and Manning was great in
(55:51):
a nine. I would have picked Breeze, but Saints fans
will tell you, like, he could easily have three MVPs,
So I'm not going to kill him that he was
like the second best player in the NFL in those seasons.
Speaker 2 (56:00):
Here's a validation. He's up to go to campon next year.
Speaker 1 (56:04):
Well, yes, there's no going Well, yeah, he's one of
those guys you don't even have to make an argue.
Speaker 4 (56:11):
So don't don't come after me.
Speaker 2 (56:14):
I'm not coming after you. I mean, I'm just saying
I'm talking about a list of I mean, I love
the dude. I love.
Speaker 3 (56:18):
I'm just kind of like, isn't it crazy that he
was this great that he's won of the leading pastors.
Speaker 2 (56:22):
Of all time?
Speaker 3 (56:23):
And they made the Pro are the All Pro Team
ONTs because again he played look at the ear. He
talked about me Yes, Manning, Brady Rogers, mahomes of some
of the great quarterbacks.
Speaker 2 (56:33):
And he only was able to make it one time.
Speaker 4 (56:34):
And yet he won. You know, it's crazy.
Speaker 1 (56:36):
He actually won two Offensive Players of the Year, so
that you would think is like a higher honor.
Speaker 4 (56:41):
But in those years where he two of those years
where he.
Speaker 1 (56:43):
Came in second for MVP, they kind of gave him
the consolation prize because he had such an incredible year
and he ends up winning Offensive Player of the Year.
He won Comeback Player of the Year. But it was
not in the year that he's coming back from that
horrible Souldier surgery hand it's getting benched. It was from
being bad in San Diego. He actually won Comeback Player
(57:05):
of the Year in San Diego. So I struggled at first.
I had Lamar Jackson over him. He was in our
first episode in the between twenty one and twenty five,
Lamar Jackson because his highs have been.
Speaker 4 (57:17):
So so high the MVP.
Speaker 1 (57:19):
And then when I looked at it, though, I was like, man,
Drew Brees' highs are pretty.
Speaker 2 (57:22):
You're not gonna get free king argue for that.
Speaker 1 (57:24):
Okay, okay, I'm just like, they are amazing, leading the
league and passing so many times. One of the best
to ever do it. Steve Weis is one of the
best to ever do I'm glad you came in for this.
Speaker 3 (57:36):
So glad you asked me to do this. When you
told me the project, you know, I was like, this
is great, and he pulled it off.
Speaker 2 (57:40):
So far, well done.
Speaker 4 (57:42):
We've just getting going here.
Speaker 1 (57:44):
Our next episode we will tackle players fifteen through twelve.
That is gonna be a lot of fun. We'll see
you next time.
Host
Gregg Rosenthal
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