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January 16, 2025 • 102 mins

Gregg Rosenthal is joined by an all-star cast of guests to preview the Divisional Round of the NFL playoffs. First, NFL Network's Brian Baldinger joins to preview Ravens at Bills (00:36), followed by former Texans DT Seth Payne to preview Texans at Chiefs (24:07), All PHLY's Bo Wulf to preview Rams at Eagles (53:54), and SB Nation's JP Acosta to preview Commanders at Lions (01:21:12).

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Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Welcome to NFL Daily, where we have finally arrived at
the best weekend of football of the year. That's right,
it's Divisional Round weekend. And to celebrate, to preview the
best games of the year, we had to get on
the best guests, and we decided to do it a
little differently than we've done our preview shows in the past.

(00:26):
We have one special guest for each game, and in
some of the games it's guys who cover the team closely.
But for our first game, and let's be real, it's
the best game, it's Bills and Ravens. I had to
get on my favorite football mind in the business. It's
Brian Baldinger of NFL Network and so many other places,

(00:47):
including my radio. When I'm driving around, I hear you there.
To welcome Baldy, appreciate you coming on.

Speaker 2 (00:52):
Yeah, my pleasure. Greg.

Speaker 3 (00:53):
Good to be with you. It is your time of
the year. It is the marquee game of this coming weekend,
so let's dive into it. It's a rematch game. As
we know going back to Week four, was it pretty
for the Bills. But as everybody knows, I mean, these
games can be different week to week, So let's get
into it.

Speaker 1 (01:12):
Well, it's funny you mentioned that right off the top.
Let's just get let's go. Then what do you think
you can learn from that game, because you know, I
went back and it was probably the Raven's best game
of the season for the first twelve weeks of the season.
Or what do you think specifically that that does have
some carryover should give Ravens fans confidence in what the

(01:34):
matchup worked for them that time around.

Speaker 3 (01:36):
Well, I mean they just finished off the Steelers, right, Greg,
So they played the Steelers three times in eight weeks,
Like you can't know what I don't even know if
that's ever happened before, but three times division opponim. First
of all, you see him on all the breakdowns all
week long. You know that it's Derek Henray and Lamar
Jackson run show.

Speaker 2 (01:54):
You know everything. You can go out there.

Speaker 3 (01:56):
To your walkthroughs and you can have all your car
drill and you know that we got a readoption coming
or we've got a misdirection coming off the readops. Like
the Steelers actually, like they have not seen it these
two guys before. They seen them three times in eight weeks.
They you know, the touchdown by Derek Henry for forty
four yards. I mean there's Patrick Queen, Mika Fitzpatrick, and

(02:19):
Shaun Elliott all waiting for Lamar to go carry the
ball like they're completely removed from the formation us to
go Like, you can't make those mistakes, and so what's
the carryover? So you know, first play the game, Week four,
I mean, Derek Henry goes eighty seven yards on the
very first play of the Ravens offense. It's a wham,

(02:41):
patrickcard willams at Oliver and Dereck Henry's gets an alley
and literally everybody kind of froze and he ran by everybody,
and so you go, well, that can't happen again. Okay,
that's I mean, you could start there. You go, you
can't start the game down seven to nothing and give
up the longest play from scrimmage the Ravens all season.

Speaker 1 (03:02):
Yeah, that was a brutal, tone setting game. And if
you remember back then, if you're watching, you know the
Ravens started off with a couple of losses. So these
games early in the season felt big to climb out
of that hole. And I do think that gets to
what the Bills defense needs to be at their best
in this game and would concern me if I was

(03:24):
a Bills fan like our producer Eric is that and
you can tell me if I'm wrong. This Sean McDermott
defense over the years, if they've had a weakness, they're
very well coached. They're fundamentally sound. I think they're better
in the secondary this year than people realize. But they're
not a big defense just pounds wise, like they try
to play physical. But you look at the Ravens offense,

(03:46):
especially their offensive line. It's a big offensive line. You
got a couple of you know, ridiculous guards in terms
of their size, and you just think size is a
big advantage for Baltimore. Do you think the return of
Matt Mulano can help in it? He's not a big
guy either. Do you think they can hold up physically

(04:06):
just against this this Ravens front.

Speaker 2 (04:09):
They don't have enough fat guys.

Speaker 3 (04:10):
Is what you say they don't is three hundred and
ninety pounds. You know, he's the right guard if Ed
Oliver is there, you know, either in front of themart
In the three gap or a one gap wherever he's at.
I mean, he gets swallowed up pretty fast now, now
you know, really I mean, it looks. It's not like
people haven't stopped Derek Hennedy before they have. You got

(04:32):
to get him before he gets you. You can't let
him get started like he did in the first play,
you know, and he gets that alley like you did
the other day of the forty four yard touchdown. You
can't let him get started because his speed and his
ability is light feet even on a touchdown run. Greg
I was just looking at his feet just getting to traffic,
like he still has very light feet for a guy

(04:54):
that big. It's just it's a rare combination. Well then
you say, okay, now you're at a mesh point. Now
you're worried about Lamar and anybody that saw Lamar last
year and you see him this year.

Speaker 2 (05:06):
He's significantly lighter this year than he was.

Speaker 3 (05:09):
He wanted to be faster, he wanted to be quicker,
and that's what he's been.

Speaker 2 (05:13):
He's been both. And so that's the dilemma is at
that mess point.

Speaker 3 (05:19):
And it could be out of a one back, you know,
with an option with you know, Derek neck jum or
in a pistol, or it could be anywhere. At some point,
the ball is going to be put into the belly
of Derrick Henry and is Henry taking it, is Lamar
keeping it?

Speaker 2 (05:36):
And it's a conundrum.

Speaker 3 (05:37):
You can walk through it, you can plug all the gaps,
and if one guy's out of the gap or you
put too many people up there and he gets through,
he can go a long way. So there's a balancing act.
But the big thing is you've got to get a
lot of bodies at the line of scrivage and not
let him get started. The problem is Lamar and if

(05:58):
he sees that, like his ability to to pull it
and go, or just even at a drop back pass
grade where he dropped back to surveying the field and
he just sees an opening and there's really nobody to
detract him, like heki go along ways like that.

Speaker 1 (06:13):
Yeah, and when he does drop back to pass. I'm
curious what you've seen out of the Bill's pass rush.
I thought von Miller had a good game last week.
You know, Greg Russo, we're talking about physicality. He's a
physical player, certainly, But I do think there's more vulnerabilities
there for that Ravens offensive line, maybe maybe on the
inside to get after Lamar Jackson. Do you think this

(06:35):
Bill's pass rush is the group that could bother lamar
it can.

Speaker 3 (06:41):
I mean, I thought von Miller could be a real
X factor, But I watched Rosie Garden go up against
TJ Watt last week and he pitched a shutout.

Speaker 2 (06:49):
You have any problem at all now? They helped fit shift.

Speaker 3 (06:51):
I mean, they did some things that would be a
good game plan for any tap and not much less
a rookie.

Speaker 2 (06:56):
But I thought he played really well against TJ.

Speaker 3 (07:00):
I've always I've been in not constant contact, but I've
been around von a lot. I do a sack summing
out in Las Vegas. I've talked to him over here.
It was interesting. I was up in Rochester two summers
ago and he was up there and I was just
asking him, like, do you do sort of like a
sack summit with you know, with Epinessa and with you know,

(07:22):
Rousseau and all the Oliver and all the guys He goes,
not really, he goes all those guys you know are
good pass.

Speaker 2 (07:29):
Rushers in the wrong way.

Speaker 3 (07:30):
What I really try to convey to them is the moment,
when is the moment where you've got to win? And
I feel like von Miller unders he's one of the
really rare guys that really understands the moment. It's a
third down, it's the fourth quarter. We got to get
off the field. The games in the bounce super Bowl
three years ago, like the games in the bounds, this

(07:52):
is when I got to shine. And I feel like
Von constantly preaches that to his guys, and so I
feel like if it does, the game does get played
a lot closer.

Speaker 2 (08:04):
You know, can those guys.

Speaker 3 (08:05):
Win in a moment against against the Ravens when they
got to have it and they got to get Yo
Lamar either chased or to the ground.

Speaker 1 (08:15):
I love that point you make about von Miller, who's
one of the all time greats that I've had a
chance to watch, and his ability to get hot and
to make plays at the exact right time. Going back
so when he first entered the league, throughout the Broncos,
even when he was having bad years with the Broncos,
he just had a sense of the moment that was

(08:38):
unlike anyone else. And that's what this team needs to have.
They've been through it, they've been to the playoffs. These
two teams are so similar in so many ways in
terms of their quarterbacks wanting to get over the hump.
Their franchises wanted to get over the hump. And it's
gonna take guys like Von Miller, like a Matt Milana,
who I thought looked really good last week, Veterans who
have been around playing their best at the biggest moments.

(09:00):
When you look at the secondary for the Bills before
we flip kind of sides of the ball and think
about when when the Bills have the ball. You know,
Damar Hamlin has had a good season. You know Taylor
Rapp got victimized a little bit. Christian Benford's an underrated player,
but maybe not coming off his best game ever last week,
at least to my eye. If Zay Flowers plays in

(09:20):
this game, and we're not sure as we're taping this
if if he will or not, is that an area
you think Baltimore can get after there? It's the safety
is maybe getting cheating up to the line of scrimmage
and then hitting them for some big plays.

Speaker 3 (09:35):
Well, before I answer that, Greg, I just want to
make one point about both these quarterbacks, and I was
talking to actually Warren Sapp about it this weekend at
hula Ball, and what you don't want either Lamar or
Josh to be able to do is it get vertical
you want them. That's to your point about Matt Mallana
on his feet, Like if Lamar's coming out and he

(09:57):
pulls the ball from Derek Henry and he's and he's
going east west, you want him to keep going east west.

Speaker 2 (10:03):
As soon as he or Josh, as soon as they
go vertical. They're so good and.

Speaker 3 (10:09):
They're so hard to tackle them, like that's when you
get big chunk yards.

Speaker 2 (10:12):
But if you can flatten them, because Sap was.

Speaker 3 (10:15):
Telling me about playing Mike Vic and you never wanted
him to go vertical once that option happened and he
kept it, you wanted them to be able to flatten.
And that's where speed Derek Brooks back in the Tampa days,
that's where the speed like flatten him to the sideline.
Don't never let him think that they can get vertical
on you and go north south. That's one point I

(10:35):
just wanted to make clear. But you know Lamar I
said this a couple of weeks ago. Greg I said,
Lamar might miss a pass, but he doesn't miss a read.
Like his eyes and where he's supposed to go with
the ball, like he's rarely wrong right now, the touchdown
to a shot baitman the other day. There's a reason

(10:58):
why you know, Hours has been their leading receiver two
years in a row. He knows how to uncover even
if he's not the opt you know, the primary receiver.
Both tight ends are excellent at it. When the original
excellent no plays is now you know over and now
Lamar is out there, he's looking to throw first, run second.

(11:19):
That's a shift from him a couple of years ago.
He's really looking to throw it more than to run
it right now. So that's a concern for that secondary
of Buffalo is you know, you've got to make that
decision plaster the receiver or go after Lamar, And you
know there's you can't always be right, but at the
same time, you have to be aware.

Speaker 2 (11:40):
Of the situation.

Speaker 1 (11:41):
Yeah, it's it's it's such an amazing time for these
two guys to be playing each other because what you're
saying about Lamar not making the wrong read, that's such
an awesome point and it also reminds me of how
Josh Allen has matured. Ben Roethlisberger is always the quarterback
I think of the most where he had his physical

(12:02):
skills and at some point in his career. It actually
was after they were making the Super Bowls. The mental
side of it clicked in and he just became a
totally different and more mature and better player. And you're
seeing that with both these quarterbacks too, not that not
that they ever were awful in those areas, but of

(12:23):
course the experience there's so much better with their reads.
Tell me what you've seen out of Allen's maturity. I
thought that performance in the wildcard round was really typical
of his season, not not always having to go for
it by hitting the big play when it was there,
and his decision making and deciding what to do has
been on point all season long.

Speaker 3 (12:42):
Well, coaching maddis great. Coaching Joe Brady is an upgrade now.
Joe Brady. I remember talking to Joe Burrow about him,
and you know, he had him at LSU and they
won a national championship.

Speaker 2 (12:53):
And what Joe wanted.

Speaker 3 (12:56):
He wanted five guys out every route and then tell me,
teach me the agression based on coverage, based on front,
all that kind of stuff. Teach me the progression. And
Joe's a magician. But I think Josh has gotten a
lot better at it. In fact, you know, if you
look at the touchdown to TDD Johnson last week, it's
a fourth and two play, and you know, I mean
Josh gets outside the pocket and ty Johnson. I mean

(13:19):
it's it's a great throw, it's a great adjustment, it's
a great catch by Tide. But there's also I feel like,
as opposed to maybe early on in Josh's career and
even up until halfway through the season a year ago,
I don't know that he always had the answers to
the test. When he started scrambling, he would scrambled because
he was looking. But now I feel like there's more

(13:41):
of a definitive pattern of where to go, Okay, where's
my back, where's kinkaid? Okay, where's my secondary receivers that
work part of the route?

Speaker 2 (13:50):
How are they?

Speaker 3 (13:51):
I feel like he now you know, it's like if
you take that IQ test, and part of the IQ
test is spatial relations, and you kind of take a
snapshot of a picture and then you've got to remember
where everything is. And I feel like Josh's snapshots right
now on the move are very clear about where his
people are are gonna be, and that's led to a

(14:11):
lot less turnovers than what he had in his past years.

Speaker 1 (14:16):
That's why I would do bad on IQ tests. I
just know it, Like why I that's that's where I'm
a dummy. Like a lot of areas that'd be strong,
but that wo'd be so bad. You're an offensive lineman.
They were always very often they were the smartest guys
in the room. So you'd probably do well in the
IQ on the spatial awareness.

Speaker 3 (14:32):
Yeah, it's not my strength either, But I'm also would
be terrible in jeopardy. I can't think that fast. Great,
I know the answer, but I need time. So like
the Bumzer goes off and I'm still you know, I
need a little time to think it through.

Speaker 4 (14:45):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (14:46):
So it's good that that Josh doesn't have that struggles
and Joe Brady doesn't. And yet, when you think about
this team, one stat that as I was preparing really
stuck out to me from last week. You know, Alec Anderson,
who we've talked about on this show. They do six
offensive linemen more than any other team in the league,
and he's he's that sixth offensive lineman. And Dion Dawkins

(15:09):
is sort of playing tight end for them when they're
doing that, and they just smash you to bits.

Speaker 5 (15:13):
Once.

Speaker 1 (15:14):
That stuck out to me last week Alec Anderson only
played five fewer snaps their six offensive linemen than Amari Cooper,
Like if that and he played Mary Cooper also played
less than the two tight ends. So they want to
smash you, and they can. And they're diverse in what
they do, and obviously Josh Allen adds a lot to
what they do as a running game. When you're going

(15:36):
up against this Ravens defense, though, do you think that
is the most effective way to attack them? Because they
are big up front and you want to be physical
against the Ravens, but their strength has been in run defense.
Do you think the Bills will be able to get
what they need on the ground with James Cook and
Allen when he needs to I do Aaron to.

Speaker 2 (15:58):
Coach of Week eight team. They've started every game together.

Speaker 3 (16:03):
You know, you go right across the board, Dion Edwards McGovern,
you know, Cyborg, Spencer Brown, They've started every game.

Speaker 2 (16:10):
They're very very well coached.

Speaker 3 (16:12):
Dawkins took Benito, just took them right out of the
game last week. Now, I mean they just they're up
to any challenge. You know, they know Chuck Smith coaches
the pass rushers in Baltimore, and we've seen incredible development
from Oway, from Mattabeque, Travis Jones, Calvenham, they're all playing
great football.

Speaker 2 (16:29):
They they have been able to press the quarterback with
just their front four.

Speaker 3 (16:33):
But I don't think it's going to be as easy
as it has been in some of these games. This
is a very talented group. They're very well coached. Yes,
Alec Anderson steps in there in his role. They don't
try to fool you. If they want to run the ball,
they want to run the wall. They want to get
James Cook Gollings. He's an elite back with great feet

(16:54):
and vision. This is a great it's a great matchup
in the trenches between these two teams run in pass.
You know, they they've got their run stuffers there in Baltimore.
You know that can you know, just keep Rokwond free
and all that stuff.

Speaker 4 (17:07):
But this is it.

Speaker 3 (17:08):
They like to pull their tackles more than anybody else
in this leepe, and so that's their bread and butter play.
They're gonna pull Spencer or they're gonna pull Dean and
they're gonna start, you know, get an extra guy to
outside of the ball and you know, try to play
some power football with you.

Speaker 2 (17:23):
It's coming, can you stop it?

Speaker 3 (17:24):
And it's it's It's one of those you know games
with any game that's going to take place.

Speaker 2 (17:30):
On Sunday night.

Speaker 1 (17:32):
Yeah, And then the Ravens just have so many different
bodies that can throw at you out of Weeke and
Travis Jones and Michael Pearson, A Dafay always playing really
well as a pass rusher that that's where he does
his work. So it's an incredible matchup. And I just
would have a hard time taking the ball out of
Josh Allen's hands. You want to in his hands as
much as possible. And they do have so much depth.

(17:52):
You know what I mentioned, Amari Cooper had those amount
of snaps. He was fifth in the wide receiver room
in terms of snaps. It was pretty close one through
five and it's all close. They all have diferent roles
and they can all play well in their roles. Do
you think they have an advantage maybe against some of
the Ravens secondary depth, Like where where do you see
those kind of matchups? How Nate Wiggins has come along

(18:14):
and Brandon Stevens and maybe that's where Buffalo can get
it done on Sunday.

Speaker 3 (18:20):
Well, I think they're going to get Todd Johnson on
some of the linebackers he's got. I remember when he
was with the Jets, and you know, like the Jets do,
they just let good players go. But he had elite
speed and he was a third back in that all.
He's got great speed. He's a great receiver. And so
they played Detroit a couple of weeks ago and it

(18:41):
was a shootout game, but they got you know, they
had one of those backup linebackers off the street in
Detroit and they got TYD Johnson matched off boon him.
They got James Cook matched up on him, and they
went to work on the linebackers. And so I think
there's different ways to find matchups. It could be a
back on a backer. It could be their tight end.
You saw last week Dalton kin k you know, get

(19:04):
vertical late in the game when they had the game one.

Speaker 2 (19:06):
But you know they got a.

Speaker 3 (19:07):
Thirty five yard pass against man coverage and you know
he can run like a receiver. So they're gonna they're
gonna find the matchups. They're gonna get to them, and
so question them can they execute.

Speaker 1 (19:19):
Yeah, it's it's almost unfair when two teams this good
play each other in the division round. I hate the
narratives that are gonna come after this game because one
of these two teams has to lose and it's gonna
be really disappointing to me. There's five teams, it's these two,
it's the Chiefs, it's the Eagles, it's the Lions. Where
if they're holding the Lombardi Trophy at the end, that

(19:39):
just would make a lot of sense to me. And
they're all they're all pretty close where any team could
win on a given day. I'm having a hard time
deciding where to go. I picked the Bills before the
season started, so it just feels like, why why go
away from them? Now? They're a slight underdog in this game.
Maybe the Ravens have been playing better lately and they've

(20:02):
had the matchup advantage in this matchup over the years.
But it's been a pretty magical Bills team. I got
no questions about the quarterbacks. I think I think they're
going to play well. Is there one thing that helps
you lean one way or another. I'm not going to
make you either pick it, but if you want to
you can and if there's a matchup you're just looking
at like whether it's Roquan Smith or Kyle whatever, it

(20:24):
is that that you think gives one team an edge
over another because they're just so they're so evenly matched.

Speaker 3 (20:29):
No, No, I mean you go back and forth all
day long, right, I mean it's an analyst stream.

Speaker 2 (20:34):
You go to some of you go to the kicking
game on.

Speaker 3 (20:36):
This one, Yeah, justin Tucker and the win is he
can you trust him and versus you know, all the
kicks that he was missed this year is the you know,
a player on the down side of his career is
getting played through it. I mean, you could go in
so many different directions here. You know, both these coaches
coach with Andy Reid at one point, can you go

(20:57):
all the way back to the nest and where it
all started And it's just a lot of different factors,
and you know, ultimately, both quarterbacks know that they're going
to be measured on winning Super Bowls and the MVPs
are great and it's an honor and nobody's gonna, you know,
not accept that award, but everybody's chasing mahomes and super

(21:17):
Bowls and so one of them is just going to
be left behind, going we got to wait another year.
And it's just to your point, it's going to be
incredibly disappointing for whichever one loses. And you know, it's
always more than just a quarterback, but so much is
put on both shoulders, especially if it comes down to

(21:38):
a final drive.

Speaker 2 (21:40):
And who can execute that.

Speaker 3 (21:41):
And so Lamar had the heart ache of losing to
the Chiefs last year, Josh has had that heartache of
losing Mahomes before.

Speaker 2 (21:49):
You know, they don't even get a chance to get there.

Speaker 3 (21:51):
Whoever loses it, they don't even get a chance to
maybe meeting meet Kansas City there.

Speaker 2 (21:56):
You know. Who know, I'm not writing Houston off, but you.

Speaker 3 (21:58):
Know, you don't even know if you to get that
chance to go to go meet Mahomes and any reading that.

Speaker 2 (22:04):
So the loser is going to be.

Speaker 3 (22:07):
That's gonna be some real, some real teers.

Speaker 1 (22:12):
I know, because we just spent twelve months just to
get back to this point. It's the same four teams,
you know, and I don't put the Texans in in
their class, but it's just so hard to get to
a super Bowl in the AFC. It's kind of like
when Brady and Manning were there, you had to get
through both of them. But now now there's three and

(22:32):
there's Burrow, you know, sticking around and it's just brutal.
I'm leaning Bills, but that's more to be real about
just sticking with a preseason pick because why not, and
because it's home. It is a little crazy to me
that they're they're underdogs at home. I know it's only
a point, but it is an advantage to be there
in Buffalo, and they they have been as much as

(22:53):
the Ravens have been through some playoff heartaches, certainly the
Bills have played even even more of those games. A
little our experience may maybe they get it done. And
it is crazy that it could all be anti climactic.
Either one of them could lose to the Chiefs in
the end.

Speaker 2 (23:06):
Josh Allen overtime rule will come into effect.

Speaker 3 (23:09):
Yes, yeah, I mean that rule was changed because Josh
Allen never got a change in overtime to get the
ball after Mahomes scored. So who knows. Maybe the Josh
Allen rule will come into effect.

Speaker 2 (23:20):
In this game.

Speaker 1 (23:21):
Okay, yeah, I can only hope so. Because this is
the final game of the weekend it is Sunday evening.
We're going to be heading into the studio to recap
it all right afterwards. I can't wait with Ravens fan
Patrick Claybond. But it's the best game, so that's why
we had to start this show. You're the best, Baldy.
Appreciate you.

Speaker 2 (23:42):
Yeah, thanks for having me, Bud, appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (23:44):
Appreciate you. And yeah, we're going to stick in the AFC.
After the break. We are welcoming in Seth Pain. We
had to have it back after I said last week
was going to be the last time we talked to
Seth Payin for the season because I thought the Texans
were going to lose. He's back on the show, talk
a Little Texans Chiefs right after this, back on NFL Daily,

(24:12):
staying in the AFC, and I had to have our
next guest on because I'm eating Crow. I welcomed him
on last week saying this will be the last time
we ever get to talk to Seth Payin. The Texans
will never be relevant again. He's headbanging. You know him
from six to ten Sports Radio in Houston where he

(24:33):
does the morning show and at Seth Payne Show on YouTube.
It's entertaining, and he's loving spiking the football on me
because his Texans are in the divisional round.

Speaker 6 (24:43):
They're in the divisional round after against all odds somehow again,
So what everybody thought was just the unwinnable game because
there were three point underdogs. I'm still discussed Rex Ryan
everybody else acting like, oh three point on nobody's ever
pulled that off in the NFL. Oh single digit underdogs,

(25:05):
not even the high single digits.

Speaker 1 (25:07):
No I fell for it. I really thought that Chargers
would roll. Oh, like, how how could a team, uh
you know name the Chargers possibly blow it in the playoffs?

Speaker 6 (25:19):
Yeah, Jim, Yeah, Jim Harbaugh had exercised all the demons.

Speaker 4 (25:24):
They just beat the Raiders.

Speaker 1 (25:27):
Greg Greg Roman in a spot against one of the
best defenses in the league where the number two receiver
is Will Disley, Like I don't know. No, I was surprised,
and it was an awesome performance by the Texans. One
of and well we'll flip it to this game very soon,
but one of just the best defensive games. And you're

(25:50):
a former Houston Texans defend defender, Seth, you must have
loved seeing defensive football because I will defend that game.
That was a good game. I know it ended up
not being at the end, so it wasn't a great game.
But I was like, this is actually great defensive football
from both teams, and one of the best you know
for a while, and then one of the best defensive
performances I've ever seen by any defense in a playoff game.

Speaker 6 (26:12):
Honestly, it was midway through the second quarter when the
store was somehow still six nothing because the tex the
offense wasn't doing anything. The Texans defense looked awful on
the first drive, but they came up big with a
third and two stop. But I was thinking back to
two thousand and two, the first year of the franchise.
We won a game against Pittsburgh in which we had

(26:32):
forty seven yards of offense and Aaron Glenn, future Saints
head coach. Unless I've missed a hire or something, Aaron
Glenn scored two touchdowns defensively in that game. We scored
three defensive touchdowns. I thought, all right, well, maybe this
defense can pull it off. But it was going against
Justin Herbert, who'd thrown three interceptions all year long. Yeah,

(26:53):
everything that the Texans have been able to do this
year defensively, which is they're very opportunistic, they take the
ball away lot. They came through big time there, But
the offense clicking, the offense able to run the ball
in the second half. We really haven't seen hardly any
of that this year out of the offense. So the
really encouraging thing is that, Okay, maybe something clicked. Maybe

(27:17):
obviously the Chiefs are a completely different ball of wax
than the Chargers, but at the very least maybe something
clicked with CJ. Stroud in the offense that this can
be a different version of the Texans.

Speaker 1 (27:27):
Yeah, and you guys got to be fired up before
we even hit record. What did you call me a
bourgeois Patriots fan that I.

Speaker 6 (27:35):
Like you were back in the day you used to
describe the fan base. It sounded to me like kind
of that bourgeois malaise of like, oh, I have everything
I have ever wanted, and yet I'm still not happy?
Why Why are ras Bostonians so angry all the time?

Speaker 4 (27:52):
It's yeah, I enjoyed it.

Speaker 1 (27:54):
I felt like I enjoyed it. I knew I enjoyed
it at the time, and I knew it would never
get any better, which is why when Brady left. I
was like, well, what's the point. We already that that
was the best that's ever going to be, and the
Texans are not there. They're climbing. They've never been to
it AFC Championship game, right, No.

Speaker 6 (28:10):
Yeah, they're the only team in the division the lofty
and with all the lofty expectations at AFC South, they're
the one team that hasn't reached a conference.

Speaker 1 (28:18):
And they're huge. They're huge underdogs this weekend and they
should be because the Chiefs finished up this season. I
know I'm falling to the trap again and I no, no.

Speaker 4 (28:29):
I mean this is different. This is different this week.

Speaker 1 (28:31):
And I think the I think they have a chance.
I do think they have a chance. I don't think
this is like there was one of those Texans Patriots
divisional round games where everyone knew they didn't have a
chance and they didn't have a chance, and then there
was one. I thought they'd be close and they weren't. Ultimately,
I think they have a chance in this game because
we got to start on the defensive side. That's the
fascinating matchup. When the Chiefs have the ball, when the

(28:52):
Texans are on defense, this is best on maybe best.
I think the Chiefs often started playing their best late
in the season. Actually, in that Texans game, I thought
Andy Reid did a lot of good things against Tamiko
Ryans where it was a bit of a coaching game,
and every snap, like Patrick Mahomes kind of knew where

(29:12):
his receivers had the leverage and he always just kept
hitting him. And I was like, Wow, this is the
Chief's offense I was waiting to see all season. And
the scary thing is they kind of did it again
on Christmas Day and they finished out the season playing
their best football in the Texans game was a big
part of that. How do you think they can be
different this time around in Texas?

Speaker 4 (29:33):
Well? I think, for one, the one good thing the.

Speaker 6 (29:35):
Texans did in that game at least is there weren't
a huge number of explosive pass plays out of the Chiefs,
and again, you know it's regular season Chiefs versus postseason Chiefs.
I understand the difference there. The weakness for the Texans
defense this year has been in allowing some of the
explosive plays. Part of that's because of youth in the secondary,

(29:56):
because they've man Kamari Lasted has been awesome, but he's
also a rookie. Calen Bullock has been way better than
I anticipated or expected. I thought he was going to
be like a two or three year project, and he's
played really, really well. They've gotten a boatload of interceptions,
but they've also had glitches that have allowed some huge plays.
We saw it in the Chargers game there with Lad

(30:18):
McConkey in the second half. They just had a little
bit of a glitch. There really should have been a
PBu if they had played it right. That's what when
it comes to Pat Mahomes and Andy Reid scheming and
finding their opportunities versus guys like Xavier Worthy.

Speaker 4 (30:35):
That's that's the big concern.

Speaker 6 (30:37):
I think, down in and down out, they can limit
and hold the Chiefs, you know, from being too explosive,
because the Chiefs haven't been super explosive all year long.
It's some of that the other On the positive side
of things, they have a ziz al Shire this time,
which they didn't last time, and I know, talking about
a middle linebacker like that's going.

Speaker 4 (30:58):
To be the huge X factor.

Speaker 6 (31:00):
It's not going to be like the one thing that
puts the Texans over the top.

Speaker 4 (31:03):
But they're a much different.

Speaker 6 (31:05):
Defense with a z's on the field than than when
he's being unfairly, unfairly persecuted for playing football.

Speaker 1 (31:12):
Uh yeah, by my boss's bosses, boss's boss. You know,
we put him down three games. He know, he is
that important I think in Demiico Ryans' defense. Not to
oversimplify it, but the linebackers are the leaders in some ways,
and he is that guy for them. And you got
Christian Harris back to he's been healthy, right, and that matters.

(31:33):
My son's favorite player, And weirdly, one of the reasons,
well favorite player are the defense. One of the reasons
why he likes the Texans is like the first or
second ever football card pack he had, he pulled the
Christian Harris rookie autograph card and that that helped him
run the you know what's been a pretty good ride
as a Texans fan the last two years. He can't
complain in the divisional round the last two.

Speaker 4 (31:55):
Years except that, yeah, they do.

Speaker 6 (31:57):
The Texans have this history of they played really well
in the wildcard round. You know, as much as we
get to crap for always playing that Saturday three thirty
game or four thirty Easter and whatever, they tend to
with They've got a winning record in those games. Yeah,
but the divisional round hasn't been so hot. Christian Harris,
your son, Your son should be concerned about Christian Harris

(32:20):
just because he's had this mysterious calf injury all year long.
He only played seven snaps in the game against the Chargers, So.

Speaker 4 (32:26):
But I don't he's kind of weak to week.

Speaker 6 (32:28):
I think it's one of these injuries that it flares
up and then it goes away. But that's that is
a big factor. And just being able to line up
and play a base four to three. They're really not
able to do it without Christian Harris. They don't feel
great about the other guys out there. So if Christian
Harris is healthy and available and can play a lot
of snaps, it could be a big difference.

Speaker 1 (32:50):
That I look at you. You found a way to
turn my football card story into it still your child, joy.
My My concern is Hunter and will Anderson. They just
need to impact the game more than they did that
first time. I know, I'm BASI lot on the first
time round and I want to take what the Texans
did last week and value that. But was it was

(33:12):
so recent and it was so much part of I
think the Chiefs team we're going to see in this game,
which like their playoffs did start there. I think my
theory is they kind of convinced themselves we got these
three games in eleven days or whatever it was, our
playoffs start now, and then suddenly they were a different team.
If we can win these three games and we get
this bye week, and suddenly Mahomes getting the ball out faster.

(33:35):
I think the injury almost helped him, although he scrambled,
you know, really well in that game, and the Texans
have been bad against scrambles all year, and I kind
of I think that's huge because I kind of doubt
the Chiefs can run. That's one advantage I give the
Texans defense. I don't expect Pacheco in that running game
to get going because it really hasn't all year, and
the Texans are pretty great at stopping that. So it's

(33:56):
going to be Mahomes going through his reads like ultra fast.
That's what makes him different than he was even five
years ago.

Speaker 6 (34:02):
Yeah, that I'm glad you brought that up because I
had forgotten. You know, that was a big talking point
after the game, was that Mahomes got rid of the
ball as fast as he has all year. And I'll
tell you what, My goodness, I made a little joke
about Pat Mahomes being injured and still playing well, and
I honestly just kind of met like, yeah, it's what. Yeah,
he's got an ankle injury, but.

Speaker 4 (34:23):
Look at him. Chiefs. Fans are so sensitive right now.
They largely I did the YouTube.

Speaker 6 (34:29):
Video and I said that My point was, yeah, he's
done this before, he's had these ankle injuries.

Speaker 4 (34:33):
I was attacked.

Speaker 6 (34:35):
I set a record for numbers of dislikes on a
video on YouTube.

Speaker 4 (34:39):
Just because they thought.

Speaker 6 (34:40):
They all assumed I was saying that he was faking
the injury or something like No. Is he a little
bit dramatic sometimes and letting everybody know about Sure, but
he's definitely injured. He's just he always does this. It
doesn't matter if he's hobbled, he's able to run.

Speaker 4 (34:56):
But he also got rid of the ball very quickly.

Speaker 6 (34:58):
The big thing about that game was the Texans were
getting a good pass rush, but they just they couldn't
get a hobbled Pat Mahomes on the ground, and.

Speaker 4 (35:07):
Like that can't be.

Speaker 6 (35:08):
You gotta figure out a way to keep him from
just getting all that easy yardage that even when he's injured.
I mean, and I say it's easy yardage. The touchdown run,
he had both the setup to the touchdown and the
touchdown itself. I mean, he kind of he kind of
punked some Texans defenders, you know he does. He kind
of bulldozed some dudes.

Speaker 1 (35:26):
They test you too with the quick throws of can
you tackle in space? And Lassiter like Stingley, they're great
at it. Maybe the safety position without Petrie, that's something
you can attack more. I think Xavier Worthy really found
his role late in the season, which was kind of
the Rashi Rice roll from a year ago. They stopped
asking him to do stuff. So that's where the big,

(35:48):
the big place could go. You mentioned like being a
little dramatic with the injuries. Now your old teammate you
were Wait, were you teammates with JJ Wattu?

Speaker 4 (35:58):
No? No, no, no, I'm much old with you know,
I lose track of the No. No, that's I know.

Speaker 6 (36:02):
No, I'm just laughing at how old I am.

Speaker 1 (36:07):
I did have a theory in that Steelers Ravens game
that like there's like there's a little bit of that
with TJ Watts Hett.

Speaker 6 (36:14):
Oh really, I gotta you know, I gotta go back
and watch because I okay, real quick.

Speaker 1 (36:18):
It's like a little extra a little aj. JJ used
to get a little grief for that, which you know,
he's one of the all time greats. Still people talk
about Aaron Donald as the best defensive player of this century,
and I still say, I think JJ Watt's peak those
three years was actually the best defensive player I've personally
ever seen.

Speaker 6 (36:39):
That four game, that four year stretch where JJ won
three defensive MVPs. His his averages various categories like TFLs
and other things like that, Like his averages over those
four years were higher than any number that any of
those guys like Aaron Donald and Aaron Like, I don't
I don't want to turn this into like JJ Watt

(36:59):
is awesome and Aaron Donald suck.

Speaker 1 (37:01):
Now they're the two best. I think they're the two best.

Speaker 6 (37:03):
His averages were higher than like numbers that Donald had
ever attained in a single season.

Speaker 4 (37:09):
It was just it was, it was.

Speaker 6 (37:11):
It was just freakish how productive he was as a
defensive lineman.

Speaker 1 (37:16):
So yeah, I know I'm getting a way off topic here.
I do think they can win those matchups against the tackles,
they can get a little quicker pressure. I think they
can prevent the run, force the Chiefs maybe into some
more third and longs, which obviously Patrick Mahomes is good at,
but they do have a couple of cornerbacks that that
could make that difficult on them. Even if he finds

(37:39):
the matchups, I think it'll be more of a might
be more of a Kelsey and a Juju and in
de Hop when he's over the middle type of game.
But I just feel like they're gonna have to They're
gonna have to be special because I think the best
you can hope out of the offense is good enough.
So you just got to hold the score to one

(38:00):
or twenty three, or you're gonna need to force two turnovers?
Am I wrong? Thinking like they in the playoffs? I
just feel like your strengths have to be extra strong
and you got to somehow win that matchup to give C. J.
Stroud in the offensive champs because you can't. You can't
just think that the offense is suddenly gonna put up
twenty seven points.

Speaker 6 (38:18):
No, No, they just haven't consistently been able to do it.
And even in that game with the Chargers, the offense
clicked with that ninety nine yard touchdown run, but it
was because, like the game was only in reach because
the defense had played so well up to that.

Speaker 1 (38:33):
Right, that was their seventh drive of the first half.
You never get that many drives, you know.

Speaker 6 (38:37):
The time of possession was so lopsided it was it
was bad. So yes, and I agree with one hundred
percent to go back to the old Patriots teams. I mean,
this is an oversimplification, but I think it's it's true
those Giants. The reason the Giants were able to beat
the Patriots and turn them into a mortal team was
because they could get a four man pass rush. And

(38:59):
I think that that's what the Texans are going to
be able to have to do, which they did in
the Chargers game, especially in the second half. Is that
the pass rush, which was really humming. They were getting
really good rush out of the defensive tackles as well
as the ends, Like you gotta be able to allow
guys to sit back and coverage and you got to
get there and it got better. They they started leaning

(39:21):
on the four man rush more in the second half
as it kind of heated up, but that's an absolute
essential and then they'll have the opportunities for their turnovers.
And Demiko, you know, of all the playoff performances, I
was looking at some of the grades of when teams
were in man coverage. Demiko played man as little as

(39:41):
any other team on wild Card weekend, but they were
the most defective in man coverage. And a lot of
that just comes back to Derek Singley and Kamari Lassiter.

Speaker 1 (39:50):
They were so good and they can mix it up.
And yeah, you mentioned the interior pressure Deniko Autry, like
you a lifer in the vision that America forgets at
a monster game.

Speaker 6 (40:04):
Yeah, and just like I thought you were talking about
the pass rush monster part of me like that. He
was definitely more than that. You know, the whole thing
about Denico Autry is that he originally the timeline was this.
I know everybody watching was dialed in on the Texans
offseason acquisitions, but Denico Autrey was signed basically to be
the edge rusher opposite of Will Anderson. And then they

(40:27):
found out that Daniel Hunter was interested and that was
an option and they said, all right, well, basically, Denko
rushes from the inside really well we'll go ahead and
we'll sign Daniel Hunter to a two year contract and
moved Denico Autry down inside when Daniel's out there, and
and he had some really good snaps at defensive tackle

(40:48):
in that game. That's the the whole four man pass
rush includes. You've got defensive ends that rush well from
the tackle position.

Speaker 1 (40:55):
Yeah, shout out to Nick Asario. You know some of
the ex Patriots building guys do well. It's just the
front office guys. The coaches don't ever do well. But
the mitchdrafted well and Atlanta Jason light is a former
Belichick guy in Tampa. He's done well. Let's slip to
the offense. And I know, I know Chiefs fans will
be like, oh, this is such a Texans leaning podcast.

(41:17):
Where's our time. You've got enough to do it. You've
had all the time.

Speaker 4 (41:20):
Your time.

Speaker 1 (41:21):
It's probably coming up. I don't want to doubt the
Texans again. It's probably coming up.

Speaker 6 (41:25):
I'm a very quick message to Chiefs fans again about this. Listen, listen,
you guys have won three Super Bowls, all right, You're like,
this is what comes with I know, Look, I personally
don't buy into a single bit of any of the
officiating controversy or anything.

Speaker 4 (41:39):
But this is the stuff that comes with wearing the crown.

Speaker 6 (41:42):
You're never gonna I don't know at what point people
think that, like, oh, once we get really good, that's
when we'll get universal praise and admiration. That's not how
human beings work. Just enjoy the enjoy the scrutiny, enjoy
the frankly, the delusional conspiracy theorything.

Speaker 4 (42:01):
It's just this is what comes with success.

Speaker 1 (42:03):
Well, plus, your offense used to be one of the
most fun offenses I've ever seen, and it's just not.
It's efficient and it's great, and it's the same reason
why I would get another. You know, people complain in
twenty eighteen, like that Patriots team, the last one that won.
It's like by then it wasn't as fun to watch.
I got it, Like just visually, it's not. I think
Mahomes can get back there if they get they get

(42:25):
the right people around them. Of course it's not about Mahomes,
but they're just grinding it out and that maybe keeps
Houston keeping the score relatively low. Let's talk about the
Texans offense before we go, because you know, one thing
in that first game, and yeah, I clearly went back
to watch it, and so I'm really I'm really leaning
into that of like, hey, I did the homework and

(42:46):
because I think it's I think it's relevant. I thought
they actually picked up Spegnola's blitzes pretty well. I thought
CJ threw with anticipation. I know, the Tank Dell injury
is kind of what we remember and it fell apart
from there, But overall CJ's so streaky as a quarterback. Yeah,
and I don't think he played particularly well overall in
the wild card round. I think he did in this game,

(43:09):
and I think that's what it's going to take because
they're just going to send those rushers and the offensive
line played decently well. I thought actually against the Chiefs
the first time around, he took a lot of hits
in the end, but a lot of those hits he
was making completions with anticipation, and that's what you need
out of him. You just need him to be a
real dude for four quarters, not for two or three,

(43:30):
which is kind of what he's been for a lot
of the second half of the season.

Speaker 6 (43:33):
No, and I think that's exactly if you think about
the Chiefs this year where the first half of the season,
they're winning all these close games and you're, you know,
you're kind of thinking like, well, I mean, this is
the experience they have. They're good in the fourth quarter
all that, but you didn't know for sure. And then
they just kept winning and kept winning. And in that
Texans game, I think it was the perfect representation of that,

(43:54):
which is the Texans were hanging in there. Tank Dell
was having a great game until he caught that touchdown
and his knee got blown out on the same play.
But even after that, the Texans drove down into the
Chiefs territory, into the red area. But then CJ made
a couple of bad mistakes, took asack he shouldn't have,
there was a procedural issue and like that, and then

(44:17):
the Chiefs came and just had just a clock draining drive,
all those things that, yeah, the really experienced veteran championship
caliber teams do. It was it was the way they
operated in the fourth quarter. I mean, it was as
stark as could be. The team that wasn't The Texans
just not ready to be in that moment versus the

(44:37):
Chiefs just very comfortable in that moment. So the whole
fourth quarter aspect of it, and exactly what did the
Texans do in the fourth quarter? Did they genuinely take
a step forward With CJ? I think the really encouraging
thing that happened in the Chargers game was he It
just felt like after the the fumbled snap that turned

(44:59):
into an exab your Hutchinson reception, it seemed like you
let the game come to him a little bit more.
You know, He's he's gotten better as the season's gone
along at doing that very Pat Mahomes site thing of
like taking the checkdown when that's what's there, doing the
smart things like that. It's taken CJ a while to
get comfortable with that. But then he also he started

(45:19):
running the ball when there was easy yardage. And it's
you know, Greg, I blame our generation for giving these
young quarterbacks good advice, which is, listen, you want to
be a pocket passer. You know, you just want to
be sure you don't rely on your legs all the time.
But the game has changed, and I feel like guys

(45:40):
like us have been telling these young quarterbacks for years like, yeah,
you know, don't let them typecasts. Yeah you're a passing quarterback,
show me the awesome quarterbacks anymore who aren't also running
quarterbacks like Pat Mahomes runs really intelligently and really effectively,
and it helps the passing game, it helps the game management,

(46:01):
all of that, and nobody's acting like, Wow, he's not
a pure pocket passer. I think CJ is starting to understand,
and Joe Mixon's been trying to tell him this all
year long.

Speaker 4 (46:10):
Take those yards.

Speaker 6 (46:10):
You're athletic enough to do it and run for it
when it's there, and I think it's starting to it. Really,
at the very least in the second half of that
game last week, it looked like that part of it
really clicked for me.

Speaker 1 (46:21):
Oh yeah, when he made that scramble in the drive
to end the first half and Demico starts yelling, that's
what I'm efing talking about. You could you could almost
tell it was from the like I'm a defensive player
point of view, like that's what that's what we need
a little more of. Yeah, it's funny. You just made
a point that I heard It was me to Kaims
of Show with Dominique Foxworth too, and they were getting

(46:41):
on Jordan Love for the same thing that it's so funny.
Now we've gotten to the point with these quarterbacks. And
Herbert was similar in his game where we're actually saying, no,
you got to run more, bro Like, you guys are
so athletic, it's hard to Like twenty years ago, you
never would have thought that we would have said that.
But I think there is something to that with Siege.
He is a good playmaker and that play that he

(47:03):
made at the end of the first half, maybe that
is how you're gonna be able to beat Kansas City
because if they have a weakness on defense, and this
wasn't a great Chiefs defensive year. It was very good
most of the year, had a dip and then mostly
got it back during that three game streak and they
kind of looked like the Chiefs that we expected. And hell,

(47:23):
they got a lot of pass rush even in that
game without Chris Jones that was on well Christmas against
the Steelers. Like so they are scary and I think
probably playing their best, but they weren't as good this year.
They have some weaknesses in terms of their slot position.
It's Shamari Corner out there really their second you know
cornerbacks out there. I think if the Texans were a

(47:46):
better running team, it could be a Joe Mixon game.
But Joe Mixon is running so damn hard that as
a defensive player he must be someone like he's got
to be one of the toughest guys to tackle in
the entire NFL.

Speaker 4 (47:58):
Yeah, he's really, I mean.

Speaker 6 (48:00):
And there's times this year too, as the run game
has struggled to get going, there's times where it looks
like Mixing has done a little bit of what CJ's done,
which is, man, you know that you need a big play,
so you're trying a little too hard for the big play.
But because they can't trust the blocking in front of him.
So that was where the really encouraging thing in the
second half was, is that all right?

Speaker 4 (48:19):
Man?

Speaker 6 (48:20):
He had actual holes to run through. He actually had.
They were actually getting some easy yardage. They had a
game ceiling drive. The offensive line for the Texans has
just been shuffled around and improving in some ways as
the season's gone along.

Speaker 4 (48:35):
But when they moved Titus.

Speaker 6 (48:36):
Howard to left guard because all the left guards got injured,
I think it's been good this time around. Titus hasn't
been good as a guard in the past. This time
it feels like he's really embraced it, and he still
he has blemishes, like you can tell he's playing out
of position. But there's a certain factor. There's a certain
part of just having a guy his size and with

(48:57):
his athleticism that allows them to get some movement that
they really weren't getting in the run game before. So
if they can lean into that a little bit, there's
gonna be some bad plays, But I think that there's
just more of a chance that they can have more
successful runs than they were able to have for most
of the season.

Speaker 1 (49:14):
Yeah, and they've they've had a lot of negative runs
and you mentioned the negative the penalties in the sack.
They just can't be taking those that That was the
game where they kept throwing these bubble screens and getting
negative threes and everything, and they they just can't. They
just can't take those negative plays. You can't let like
George Carloftas and Mike Dana beat you. There was a

(49:35):
little more of that when I said they handled the
blitzwell in that game, they did, like the communication was
good and everything, but the chiefs for man rush actually
got home a decent amount. And that's what I mean
about like winning with your strengths. They I think CJ
took eleven QB hits in that game, and Mahomes, who
had gone through a stretch of getting battered and bruised,
only took four. And if it's that lopsided, the game

(49:57):
will be lopsided. They'll cover the number. I'm not, you know,
going full you know, upset here, but I'm going there
covering the number that it's like a six point game
or something, and they make them sweat.

Speaker 6 (50:09):
I think that's the part of it too, that I
rarely get insulted by what basically what Vegas and the.

Speaker 4 (50:15):
Computers are saying.

Speaker 6 (50:16):
But it did open up as a seven point spread,
and now it's moved up to nine. I feel like
that's America, America saying that, you know, they're just okay,
this is the playoff Chiefs and it's going to be
the same old Texans. So I'm insulted by those two points.
I think that I can it's one hundred percent valid.
The Chiefs are a different team in the playoffs than

(50:38):
they are in the regular season, even in the years
where they're really good offensively in the regular season. I
think the fact of the matter, though, is that it's
not like they've been blowing teams out this year. It's
rare that they score more than thirty points in a game,
so the I feel confident it's going to be a
better game than maybe people are expecting.

Speaker 1 (50:58):
Maybe a little vibes of the Deshaun Watson Texans game
against the Chiefs where they had in the playoff that
was a division r right with Bill O'Brien, and they
get out to like I'll never forget I was sitting
next to our friend Chris Westling for that game. And
they get up twenty one nothing or.

Speaker 6 (51:16):
Fortwenty four or twenty four nothing, twenty four, there's twenty were.

Speaker 1 (51:20):
Is this really gonna happen? And it's funny the Chiefs
are so good on offense back then that even then
you were like, well, they got a lot of time.
We'll see, but it's like, is this really gonna happen?
I don't think it'll be like that, but I do
think there's something. We'll see what the rest, I don't know.
That's a long time to not be playing football. I
could see like a Texans thirteen to six lead midway

(51:41):
through the second quarter and the Chiefs fans are sweating
it out, or maybe it's a halftime lead something like
that before the Chiefs pull away. That's my final prediction.

Speaker 6 (51:48):
There's there's no cushion that will make any Texans fan
feel comfortable.

Speaker 4 (51:53):
It could be with the.

Speaker 6 (51:54):
Final score that game ended up being fifty one to
thirty one, I think.

Speaker 4 (51:58):
I mean it was the Chiefs.

Speaker 6 (52:01):
The Chiefs ran out of gunpowder to fire the cannon
in the end zone.

Speaker 4 (52:06):
That was.

Speaker 6 (52:07):
That was the only bad thing that happened to the
Chiefs that day. Once they started their comeback, and then
the Chiefs went on to that was the year they
came back from double digit deficits in every single game,
I think to win the Super Bowl.

Speaker 4 (52:17):
Yeah, first, and we got it started.

Speaker 1 (52:20):
That was their first Super Bowl run. We'll see if
the Texans can can end their their bid on a
three p. I hate to say, Abot, I don't thing
we're gonna see you anymore.

Speaker 6 (52:30):
This I'm not gonna I'm not gonna get insulted by it.
This time around. I was deeply insulted.

Speaker 4 (52:34):
I couldn't. I thought about it all week, but.

Speaker 1 (52:37):
Sure you did. Production value, by the way over at
Seth Payne Show. His YouTube channel is fantastic. I don't
know how many people you have working with you like
the editing and you throw and the jokes are like
on point. I don't know if this has taken a
lot of takes or what Minor Bosa, there was just
a lot going on there.

Speaker 6 (52:57):
I like, I constantly like the little different. I do
everything myself. I've just learned that's my thing that I'm
trying to learn to stay mentally sharp. Video editing, which
I've learned, is one of those things that it doesn't
matter how much you improve, it's going to take the
exact same amount of time because there's just always nine
million things you can do to improve it. And I'm

(53:18):
still I'm like, I think I'm up to maybe like
a sixteen year old editing on his phone level.

Speaker 4 (53:25):
I'm all like, I'm right there.

Speaker 6 (53:26):
I just want to get up to maybe like freshman
graphic design major and I'll be then I'll start farming
it out.

Speaker 1 (53:32):
No, it's good, it's good stuff. We are asking all
of our listeners go go subscribe, Go check out Seth
on YouTube. We will see you next time. We're not
even going to take a break here. That's it for
the AFC. Those games were fantastic. We're going to go
to the early Sunday morning game Eagles and Rams. Yes,
I'm throwing it to myself with bo Wolf. We are

(53:54):
all heartbroken by the devastation and destruction from the raging
wildfires across the Greater Los Angeles region. Families affected by
these fires urgently need support. You can help the American
Red Cross respond to and help people recover from these
disasters by donating today to support relief efforts by going
to Redcross dot org. Slash NFL all right back on

(54:19):
NFL Daily didn't really go anywhere with my friend fo
Wolf from the pH l Y Eagles podcast. The Eagles
are his business, and business is booming. It's a perfect
Eagles season. You guys are dominant, your heavy favorites in
the divisional round, and no one in Philadelphia is happy.

(54:42):
It's like, that's exactly what you would want.

Speaker 5 (54:44):
That's exactly right, It's just how you want it. And
I do have to say at the top, I was
confident that the arc of history would make it worthwhile
for me to take jul Fonseca in the tenth round
of my own Maker's draft with my brother this year.
But I didn't think it was gonna off this quickly.
I'm happy to be here on courts of Thunder.

Speaker 1 (55:02):
Oh my gosh. Yes for the seven people listening that
get that. Wow, I had a I had a podcast
about tennis and I loved it with my my friend
Glenn Clark. Maybe it'll come back someday. And yes, bo
Wolf an eye for Talent picked maybe the next big
thing in tennis. I'm not gonna say he's the next Alcoraz,

(55:24):
but I think he's gonna be the next something we're
going to be watching for a long time. And he's
making some big noise at the Australi you know.

Speaker 5 (55:32):
But yes, let's get let's get to The vibes in
Philly are are exactly as you would expect, you know.
They they were Saquon Barkley not you know, taking a
knee or sliding down at the end of that game
away from winning by like three touchdowns. And everybody's furious
because the passing game just cannot seem to get to
get unstuck. So wit is it really curious? Is overstating it,

(55:54):
but it is. It is hesitancy. There is there is
reticence because everybody think that if this team is going
to get to where they want to go. The passing
game is going to have to improve.

Speaker 4 (56:05):
Well.

Speaker 1 (56:05):
They've been up and down all season. At times they've
actually been very efficient and played their part very well.
At other times, Jalen hurts his numbers haven't passed the
eye test. When he holds on to the ball a lot.
This is something you guys talk about on your podcast.
I think it's right on. You said you see it
a trading cap when he holds the ball for a while,

(56:26):
Like good things often don't happen. The positive here is
you look back at that first Rams game and you
think about the matchups. They're one of the few teams
that made the Rams pass rush look mortal because they
have the tackles to do it. Like Jared Versus just

(56:47):
totally erased in that game by I think it was
my lot and most of the time, and the matchups
on the outside with I know that should have been
true last week too, But AJ Brown and DeVante Smith
against a Kellaweb their spoon and Darius Williams, Like you
would think that would really really work, Like why hasn't
the passing game working?

Speaker 4 (57:07):
Now?

Speaker 1 (57:07):
Now I'm caught in your web. We're going negative at
the beginning.

Speaker 5 (57:10):
It's a good question. So to first talk about that
first matchup, that was the Eagles' best offensive performance of
the season by by all the advanced metrics. They were
They were awesome in that game. I mean, Saquon Barkley
had three hundred yards from scrimmage. It was it was
an insane rushing performance. But AJ Brown also had over
one hundred yards and they didn't have Davante Smith in
that game. So you do think matchup wise that it

(57:33):
should favor the Eagles offense. AJ Brown has sort of
owned a Kello Witherspoon over the course of their career.
They've played several games against each other. But AJ Brown
had won catch last week, and AJ Brown and DeVante
Smith are both a little bit banged up. You know,
they missed some practice time last week. The problem with
with the offense is that so often, you know, the

(57:54):
Eagles went on Sunday, then you watch the Monday night
game and like the things that the ram and Vikings
are doing on offense to just creatively get guys open,
they're absent from the Eagles offense so often. It is
the same route concepts that they run all season long,
and there's you know, it's hard to disentang go what
is Jalen what is the offensive scheme? But in week

(58:17):
eighteen when they played with Tanner McKee, like you saw
the under center play action game, you saw these things
that have been absent from the passing offense. And so
it's a little bit of both. Obviously everybody shares in that.
One of the things that's confounding to me is when
this team is so run heavy and you know they
only have like twenty to twenty five drop backs a

(58:37):
game in the ideal script that they have. The less
volume you have of passing plays should mean that you
can be less predictable. That like, just why are we
running the same route concepts? And one thing that has
really been absent from this passing game shockingly so, because
one of the things that Jalen Hurts does best is
throw the ball deep. They do not throw the ball

(58:59):
deep right Nowlast week the only ball day through downfield
was the fake push push that was incomplete to aj Brown,
that to me is like you just think about it philosophically,
like if you know that this team faces loaded boxes
more than anybody else in the league, and you're pounding
Saquon Barkley into the line of scrimmage. Why can't we
just pop a couple balls deep. It's it seems so silly.

Speaker 1 (59:22):
Well this is this is funny. I mean we really
are just talking about what they're struggling up, and yet
it's all true. I mean, I don't need to disentangle
it that much more. Maybe you guys need to be
more sensitive, you know, because you're local and Jalen Hurts
is a serious man and a good football player and
has had a lot of success. It always looks this,
It's always looks like the Jalen Hurts offense. So maybe

(59:45):
that's it, you know, because you bring in Kellen Moore
and they have the same passing dvoa as a year
ago or right around the same. It's it's close to
the middle of the league, the strengths and weaknesses, and
it looks similar. And then yeah, you bring in the
back up and suddenly it looks like the Kellen more offense.
So Hurts has his strengths, he has his weaknesses. I

(01:00:08):
think if you lean into those strengths in the right matchups,
you can go win a Super Bowl. Especially with this defense.
I mean, this defense is better than it's ever been.
But I think you're right. In this game against this secondary,
you got to push the ball a little bit more
down the field. And they are a different offense when

(01:00:28):
they have got her, DeVante Smith and AJ Brown on
the field together.

Speaker 5 (01:00:32):
So they've only had for four games this season, including.

Speaker 1 (01:00:34):
Right and they have it and I'm willing to accept
the idea that they didn't need it the offense that much.
Last week, little game Managy and it was Hurts coming
off of a long layoff that that was almost there,
like get into the playoffs type of game. You guys
kind of threw out that idea and maybe you'll see
a better version of the offense this week.

Speaker 5 (01:00:54):
I think that's reasonable at least to hope for with
some degree of confidence. And listen, the last game, the
last full game that Jalen Hurts played before he got
injured in the Commander's game before this playoff game was
against the Steelers when he had his best passing performance
of the season. This was coming on the heels of
AJ Brown saying you know what's wrong, and he said

(01:01:15):
the passing game. And they came out the next week
and we're sort of bombs away and they had a
great first half throwing the ball, and so like oftentimes
we talk about the egos organization as being sort of
rabbit eared and like whatever, whatever the big conversation of
the week is, they tend to sort of address it
with their game script early on. And so I actually
do kind of think we're going to see some early

(01:01:35):
shots downfield, just just because that's what people have been
talking about. And again, I know that it's ridiculous that
we're like complaining about a team that is a six
and a half point favorite away from going to the
NFC Championship game, but the stakes are the stakes.

Speaker 1 (01:01:47):
Well, everything else is so great on this team, and
that is why it is ridiculous that there is a
path to them being the twelfth best offense passing the
ball in the league and winning the Super Bowl. If
you're the best running team and you're the best defense,
like that's a winning combination and your special teams don't
blow it. And there's every.

Speaker 5 (01:02:07):
Joke of there's the joke of because Jeffrey Lurry is
you know he wants a pass heavy offense, that is
the joke, right, And so like they're at the Super
Bowl parade, Jeffrey's like thanks, Nick, for winning the Super Bowl.
But that's that's not how I wanted to do it. Like, well,
we'll see you next year, you know, hiring a new coach.

Speaker 1 (01:02:23):
It is hilarious to look at the all time like
winning percentage records of coaches in history, and like there's
Nick Sirianni right near the top, like he's been win
loss is a coaching record, you know, is a coaching
stat and his his win loss record is incredible. And
now you know this is this is second chance to
make a Runny obviously had the one and done's a

(01:02:45):
couple of times in the playoffs, but four playoff appearances.
And I know we're not talking too much about the
Rams here. I think if the Rams defense before we
flip to the other side, is gonna win this game. There,
they're linebackers have to hold up in the running game.
I think they looked a little small last time around.

(01:03:06):
That was an eye opening game. Our co host Jordan
Rodriege of The Athletic talked about that this was a
front that was maybe feeling themselves a little bit and
that was a humbling game for them. It kind of
was the bottom of a decline that they had in
terms of their young pass rushers and especially holding up

(01:03:27):
against the run, and they have bounced back pretty well
since then. Now that might just be a matchup thing
where they got beat by a better team because Saquon
I mean, in that game, of course, he has some
crazy stats, but it's only a handful of times in
the next Gen stats era has a player had over
seventy five yards before contact in a game and one

(01:03:49):
hundred yards after contact in a game. So all the
Eagles numbers in terms of before contact are best in
the league. And this is a Rams front that you
can kind of push back and then say was also
too physical a lot of times for this Rams defense.
So to me, they're just going to have to show up.
And it's trite, but they're gonna have to be more

(01:04:10):
physical like the Eagles defense was last week. Like they're
going to have to come out hitting and somehow make
up that that poundage gap that that we see in
a lot of these games this week. Bills are way
lighter than the Ravens, uh and I think the Rams
are way lighter than the Eagles, And.

Speaker 5 (01:04:24):
I think the Eagles will will lean into that physicality
on both sides of the ball. They want to be
the team that is that is punching the other team
in the mouth. I mean, it's it's not a nice
thing to say, but they not. I mean they knocked
out like three Packers from the game last week to
to wide receivers and Elton Jenkins, which changed the game
because the Packers could not hold up in pass pro.
So I think the Eagles would in their minds welcome
that fight.

Speaker 1 (01:04:45):
Right and I think the Rams defense has gotten better
and better. Verse winning with power doesn't necessarily match up
as well with.

Speaker 5 (01:04:57):
There was the one player from that game where he
sort of ran over Jordan Mailatta. It was like a
highlight play. But other than that, he was held quiet.

Speaker 1 (01:05:04):
I think that was literally his only pressure. It was
his quietest game of the season. But you do it.
It's it's a four man front. You have Kobe Turner,
you have Brandon Fist, it's a young group. You have
Byron Young who's been sneaky awesome all year. I just
think their only chance of winning this game or creating
a lot of pressure and forcing Jalen Hurts to hold

(01:05:25):
the ball get confused. They got a little more creative
last week with some of their disguised pressures, late blitzes.
They really haven't been much of a creative defense throughout
the season. But I think they saw what the Lions
did and it's a darnold and copied it and maybe
maybe that can work against Hurts too, who tends to
hold the ball a little bit.

Speaker 5 (01:05:42):
And take sacks. And to the conversation from before, what
is a little bit disappointing of the Jalen Hurts experience
is that for a guy who is as athletic and
mobile as he is, it is true that the longer
the players go on it is he has a lower
success rate, which is a little bit surprising. He does
not make a lot happen unless it's a scramble, you know,

(01:06:04):
the longer heels onto the ball, so he takes a
lot of sacks. And I do think that the Rams
are going to be doing a lot of like rotation
post snap to try to money the picture, because there
was a lot of concern last week like how how
rusty is Jalen Hurt's going to be? And I think
that some of that plays out a little bit more
in like what he's seeing than necessarily the way that
he's playing as a as a thrower, although there was

(01:06:25):
some inaccuracy last week, which was a little bit atypical.

Speaker 1 (01:06:29):
Yeah. No, he usually is on on point, I would
say with the ball, and I will point out though
I listened to your recap pod, I believe it was
and it was before you guys knew the opponents and
you were talking about all the different opponents that you
could face. I think there were three possibilities at the time.

(01:06:50):
He didn't know if it could be the commander's rand.

Speaker 5 (01:06:52):
The overwhelming reaction was people wanted the rams.

Speaker 1 (01:06:54):
Yes, that that is that. Maybe it's just because of
the experience the first time around, Sean McVay. I don't
know if you're a big NFL Daily guy. I think
there's some other people within the RAMS that are NFL
Daily listeners. There's your there's your poster to put up
O P H O Y.

Speaker 5 (01:07:13):
They all want responds.

Speaker 1 (01:07:15):
Yeah, that's that's better than Dan Campbell just telling Kevin
O'Connell will see you in two weeks. That was the
most ridiculous bulletin board material ever. I mean O'Connell didn't
even say. O'Connell was probably thinking, oh, yeah, I'm not
getting through another game with Sam Darnold.

Speaker 7 (01:07:29):
Like this.

Speaker 1 (01:07:30):
This this guy's turned into a pumpkin. So you got
your wish, you got your Rams, and yet like this
is a rare offense that the Rams are running when
when it's clicking, they have the better quarterback in this
game when it's when it's clicking. He's been a little
up and down, but on balance he's been better and
certainly at his best, I think he's better that then
Jalen hurts and it's a passing attack that you know,

(01:07:54):
maybe could give this Eagles defense and problems.

Speaker 5 (01:07:57):
Yes, and so the big concern for the Eagles this
week is the loss of the Kobe Dean who suffered
a torn penteller tendon in that Wildcard round game, and
he's probably going to be replaced by Oron Burks, who
replaced him in that game. Vic Fanjo said this week
that Jeremiah Chrotter Junior, the fifth round rookie, might rotate
in there as well. But that's going to be the
weak spot that I think everybody in Philadelphia is worried

(01:08:19):
that Sean McVay is going to pick on and Zach Bond,
who has had this unbelievable all pro season. Vic Fangil
likes to sort of rotate Zach Bond down to the
line of scrimmage and sort of change the math of
the fronts. And if you do that, then all of
a sudden, Aaron Burks or Jeremiah Trotter Junior is left
alone in the middle of the field. And that's not
going to be an ideal matchup in terms of having

(01:08:41):
to cover anybody with the misdirection of the Rams offense.
And so I think that is the big concern. And
in that first matchup, you know, there's there's so much
said about the history between Vic vanjo and Sean McVay, right,
and how it's sort of changed the landscape of the
NFL for a few years. I know Jordan has covered
that better than anybody.

Speaker 1 (01:08:58):
Yes, back in the in the in the the Heastriots
won the Super Bowl when the Bears put that five
in front, and yes, Zach Bond. That's why I think,
man if I had a vote, he really might have
been like valuable. He really might have been the most
valuable because he was the guy who kind of unlocked
their ability to flip between defenses like that twenty eighteen

(01:09:19):
Bears team was able to do.

Speaker 5 (01:09:21):
Yes, and he's also been really good in the middle
of the field, like you saw his interception of Jordan
Love last week, and he talked about how like he
had to sort of earn the Vic Fanjo trust to
be able to freelance a little bit like that. So
I'm curious to see what Fanjo does in the middle
of the field. But even though Fanjo has has mostly
gotten the better of Sean McVay that first matchup, you know,
it looked like a blowout, but there were three three

(01:09:42):
and outs in the middle of that game. But other
than that, like the opening script, the Rams went down
the field, no third downs, went right down the field
into the Eagles red zone, and then Kyen Williams FuMB
with the ball away. Next possession, went right down the field,
scored a touchdown without even needing a third down, and
they moved the ball in the second half as well,
And so this was not quite as demonstrative a blowout
on that side of the balls as it might have

(01:10:03):
looked in the stats.

Speaker 1 (01:10:04):
No, the success rates of the two offenses were very even.
And there is there is something about Stafford that is scary.
He kind of just goes into this fu mode and
he is a streaky quarterback and he can beat good coverage.

(01:10:24):
Now that they're a team that does more motion than
just about any team in the league. The numbers say
that the Eagles are the best at handling motion. They're
the best that they don't chase it, they just they
play their keys right. So they're very disciplined, like they're well. Coach,
how has been coach covering Vic Fangio. I feel like
he's made less way less headlines this year.

Speaker 5 (01:10:45):
He's a dream. Yeah, why because he's He's brutally honest.
He doesn't worry about, you know, the obfuscation of like, well,
I don't know, we had to decide. We haven't made
that choice yet. He'll tell you exactly the truth. I mean,
Bryce Huff, the guy who they signed for like seventeen
billion dollars, played one snap last week, and you know

(01:11:05):
he was asked about that. He's like, well, we were
good with our three men rotation. We didn't need him.

Speaker 1 (01:11:09):
Like he's fine, Yeah, they should be good. They got
Nolan Smith who's playing like at a pro Bowl level.

Speaker 4 (01:11:17):
Now.

Speaker 5 (01:11:19):
I cannot remember ever covering someone who I feel like
has improved in season as much as as Dylan Smith
has this year.

Speaker 1 (01:11:26):
Yeah, so you have him, you have Josh Suat who's
been very effective. I do think that that Eagles game
with the Rams is interesting to look back on because
it really changed the Rams season. They were just getting
their offensive line back, they thought for the first time

(01:11:47):
and healthy, and they played so poorly in that game
that they actually went back to the undrafted rookie bow
Limmer at center every game since and benched. Now I'm
blanking on his name, not ragnow bench their big free
agent pickup from the Lions, and they've gone with the

(01:12:09):
same offense. Jonah Jackson right and played center that game.
They've had him on the bench. He's making like twenty
million dollars a year, very similar to Bryce Huff. He's
not playing. They're going with the undrafted rookie at center.
You get Avula over at guard, and they've played quite
well in terms of protecting Stafford and especially running the ball.

(01:12:29):
Since then, they've they've had one of the highest success
rates in the league with Kyrien Williams. And I still
do think that's ultimately the way to get at this
Eagles defense is just be patient and get foward of
five yard runs and be diverse doing it. And I
think actually the Rams about as much as any team
in the NFL, are set up to do that, to

(01:12:49):
try to go on some twelve play drives where Stafford
doesn't make mistakes and it's very run in play action based,
and so I think that could be a concern. And
I'm almost shorten't in the games as an underdog.

Speaker 5 (01:13:02):
Yeah, I mean, I think the fewer possessions in this
game the better for the Rams, no doubt about it.

Speaker 4 (01:13:06):
I do.

Speaker 5 (01:13:06):
I think the Eagles run defense. They feel very good
about their run defense. I mean, if it is the
kind of thing where it's three yards of pop and
they're just converting third and shorts, you know they'll they'll
have to do that. But I don't worry about the
Eagles getting run over really in the running game. I mean,
Josh Jacobs had that great run last week, and to
be fair, there were a few more mistackles last week
from the Eagles than we have been used to seeing

(01:13:27):
the second half of the season. But upfront, I think
I think they feel very confident about it about winning.

Speaker 1 (01:13:32):
Them Well, They're good at everything, so there's no like
particular weakness. They're they're deep in the secondary, they're healthy
right now, right every everyone's practicing in the secondary.

Speaker 5 (01:13:42):
Yeah, Sleigh was a little bit nicked up in that game,
but he's not going to miss this.

Speaker 7 (01:13:45):
Game, right.

Speaker 1 (01:13:46):
So the matchups are fascinating what you do to try
to take out Pukakua and it's tough because he's in motion.
Because there is no more offense in the league that's
that's more focused than one player than the Rams are.
Which is why I think Tyler Higby showing up last
week and they say he's going to play this week
after he was spitting up blood and went to the hospital,

(01:14:08):
it's like, oh, yeah, he's playing this week. He looks fine.
Football football is insane that he is important for them
because Cooper Cup's not really a two anymore. He's just
like a rotational kind of receiver. I'm not going to
say he's Johan Dotson, but this is probably his his
last game as a RAM. You know, if they don't.

Speaker 5 (01:14:29):
Win, it interesting and you know, you talk about how
the Ram season was changed. Eagles defense was sort of
changed after the bye when Cooper Degen took over as
as their nickel corner and they've been so much better
and what he's allowed them to do is stay in
nickel personnel and still defend the run really really well
because because of his willingness to be to be physical.

Speaker 1 (01:14:50):
M how are like, where are you leaning for this?
You're not allowed to pick against the Eagles in this game,
but you have do you have them covering the spread?
I was a little surprised that they were so heavily favored,
uh in this game.

Speaker 5 (01:15:06):
Yeah, I mean I'm leaning towards towards the Eagles covering
the spread, but uh, the fact that I'm living, I mean,
it's a it's a typical thing. I'm leaning that way.
So now I'm worried that it's going to go the
other way. But I do I think the offense, I
think the passing game is going to bounce back a
little bit. I think the Rams will be able to
move the ball better than the Packers did last week.
But but I'm expecting, you know, uh, just a frothing

(01:15:27):
Eagles crowd. Uh, you know, it might it might snow.
Now for this game, it's gonna be twenty degrees and
so I'm gonna I'm gonna just tilt tilted towards the Eagles.

Speaker 1 (01:15:36):
Yeah, and the Rams history of of going east, Uh,
you know.

Speaker 5 (01:15:42):
I can also see the you know, I can I
can see the the Jordan postgame story about how Sean
McVay has finally slain the vic Fangio Giant, and like,
you know, this is this was this was how many
years coming.

Speaker 1 (01:15:55):
Look, it would make it would make the women in
my house happy. You know, they're they're Rams fan I
and I thought this going into the game. I picked
the Rams and I thought they might win. You know,
I think I had them by six or something like
that against the vik I just thought that was going
to be their moment, that that was going to be
their emotional It's been a lot out here. They were

(01:16:17):
personally affected. It's indoors, you know, against this Vikings team,
who I personally think they wanted to play that They
literally were like looking at the matchups and thinking, oh,
I hope we get the Vikings and felt good about
And now it's a short week and it's not I
know it's the playoffs, but it is a short week.
You're on the road, it's cold. You put a lot

(01:16:40):
into that, and you look at these two teams, they're
not even like over the course of the season, they're
not even That's what the numbers are telling you. They're
telling you that the Eagles are one of the very
best teams in the league, and that the Rams offense
has come and gone, and that the defense has been
opportunistic considering what they have. But they're a little uneven.
They're very front loaded in the in the back seven

(01:17:02):
can be taken advantage of. But who knows, maybe maybe
this Eagles passing game. To go back to what we
talked about, they're not the team to take advantage and
they can keep it close. I'm leaning on the Eagles covering. Actually, yeah,
maybe Jill.

Speaker 5 (01:17:14):
You know, Jalen Hurts hasn't turned the ball over, and
maybe he turns the ball over. I think the Eagles
need to lean into being the bad guy, like being
in the playoffs, because I mean, everybody, every neutral person
is going to be rooting for the Rams. I would be,
given everything that they have gone through. If the Eagles
get then get to the NFC Championship game, I mean,
everybody's going to be rooting for the Lion.

Speaker 1 (01:17:34):
I mean even more so than the Rams, as much
as I'm sure everyone has simple.

Speaker 5 (01:17:37):
And if they get to the Super Bowl against the
Bills of the Ravens, if it's one of those teams.
I mean, in twenty seventeen, the Eagles were the plucky underdogs.
Everybody's rooting for him against against your Patriots. You know,
everybody thinks, like Nick Sirianni jawing on the sidelines is
like a hatable thing. They've got CJ. Gardner Johnson and
Carter john and people. I think they need to lean
into being the big bad like, you know, yeah, some

(01:18:00):
real stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:18:01):
I've loved the Chauncey Gardner Johnson I don't know, want
to say revival, but he wasn't that good this year
for a lot of the season, and suddenly at the
end of the season he's in the middle of everything.
He's making plays, he's gying like he's getting thrown out
of games. This is perfect, Like I want this playoff run.
You're absolutely like right, lean into it. The only way
that doesn't work is if there's a Chiefs rematch in

(01:18:22):
the Super Bowl, which I don't is the matchup that
no one really wants a we've seen.

Speaker 5 (01:18:27):
It b it includes.

Speaker 1 (01:18:29):
The Chiefs, and then see it's like, yeah, the Eagles
are just the team compared to the others. You're absolutely
right that just like, yeah, it's like, Okay, that's fine.

Speaker 5 (01:18:37):
Yeah, there's no more there's no more national juice. I think,
given given the fun stories of all the other real contenders.

Speaker 1 (01:18:42):
They're juice. It's just like, why, why why do the
Eagles fans got to be so hate heable? I love them,
I love you guys, but just like enjoy enjoy your life,
you know, enjoy your team. You're the envy of many
other teams, Like we should be getting Alec Halby your
assistant a job out there. And the only interview I
can get is with the Jets like him in fifteen.

Speaker 5 (01:19:05):
Others and the interview like seventeen guys.

Speaker 1 (01:19:07):
I mean, look at this roster. They're like a dynasty
with sirianni as their coach. You know how good you
have to make that.

Speaker 5 (01:19:13):
You know what I was actually I was actually looking
something up on that. On that point. The Eagles are
the only team. So if you if you start in
twenty twenty when they flamed out had and Doug Pearson
gets fired, they won four games, so twenty twenty to
twenty twenty four total wins, and then also draft pick
like value based on the trade charts that they've used

(01:19:36):
over that time. Given all the moves that they've made,
they're the only team that's in like the top ten
of both of those things based on like all the
things that they have done. You know, there was the
Carson Wentz trade, the Saints trade, and that doesn't even
factor in the AJ Brown acquisition, and so, I mean,
they really have done something unique over the past four
years with being able to win and have all that

(01:19:57):
draft equity with their roster.

Speaker 1 (01:19:59):
They're the best in the league. They really are. The
problem is it's a quarterback league, and of the eight
quarterbacks remaining, the only one I'd put Hurts over right
now is C. J.

Speaker 4 (01:20:12):
Stroud.

Speaker 1 (01:20:13):
And that's just how they're playing right now. And even
that's like long term, I'm definitely taking Stroud And if
you told me this week he plays at like his
ceiling is probably higher even this weekend than maybe Hurts
his is. And so that's that's just like a small
little thing to overcome. But they are a juggernaut. I
want to see him in the NFC Championship game ultimately,
because I think that will be an awesome game as
long as it's not Eagles Commanders. But I want to

(01:20:34):
see that Lions.

Speaker 5 (01:20:36):
I have felt all year long like it was headed
towards that game. I'm going to feel robbed if we
don't get to actually see Eagles Lions. Yes, yes, I
think we for that game all year.

Speaker 1 (01:20:45):
I want to see it, and it's it'd be good
for your business. It's going to be good for your
co host, Zach Bermans.

Speaker 5 (01:20:50):
I might, I might, I might kidnap Zack and will
do a road trip to Detroit. I'm kind of like
threatening him with that possibility.

Speaker 1 (01:20:57):
That would be amazing. Check out bow Wolf. You can
get see him on all the socials. He's on Blue Sky,
He's on Twitter, but most importantly, go check out the
Pha Why Eagles podcast. Like Fran Duffy on that show,
you got Vinnie Curry who adds a lot of spice
to it, a lot of voices, we will see you
and yeah, good luck because I know it's good for business.

(01:21:18):
Now you have to root for the home team.

Speaker 5 (01:21:20):
I would never do that, but it would be good
for business.

Speaker 1 (01:21:23):
Will be back after the break. We're gonna wrap up
our previews, talking a little Lions and Commanders. Right after
this back on NFL Daily, wrapping up this supersized divisional

(01:21:45):
round weekend, preview with the man from ESPY Nation, JP
Acosta with me to talk a little Commanders Lions. JP
one of the sharpest football minds out there. He's he's
on Blue Sky, which I appreciate posting heavily like myself.
But he's on Twitter too, and yeah, you can check

(01:22:08):
out his Established the Fun column every Wednesday, I believe it.
It comes out and it's awesome. JP is a really
smart young minds, but not as young as you were
the first time he came on JP. What's up?

Speaker 2 (01:22:22):
You know?

Speaker 8 (01:22:22):
Actually, I feel good that I'm not the youngest this
time person. This time I have grown, but I have also,
like you said, right and established fun every week. I'm
really excited for this divisional round playoff visual round the playoffs.
I kind of did this last week where I was like,
I don't know what I want to talk about, so
I'm just gonna talk about everything. So this week, I

(01:22:43):
was like, I don't know what I want to talk about,
so I'm just going to talk about everything.

Speaker 1 (01:22:47):
Let's do it. We're going to talk about everything. I'm
narrowing you down related to this game. And yes, for
the other guests we had on JP, we're kind of
team specific guests. But I know you can talk ball
about anything, so that that's a compliment to you. You're
not directly connected with this Commander's team or this Lions team,
and yet there's so many fascinating ways to look at it.

(01:23:09):
I want to start. Let's talk about Jayden and the
Washington offense first. When you look at this matchup, you
think about what the Lions defense likes to do. It's
so man coverage heavy. They kind of do what they do.
They blitz like crazy. They blitz even more and more effectively.
You know, over the last half of the season, you

(01:23:30):
wouldn't figure it's going to change up too much because
they don't change up what they do against anyone. And
yet Jaden Daniels very good against the blitz, a good
decision maker in general. Kind of how do you think
that chess match with the pressure is going to play out?

Speaker 8 (01:23:45):
So I think this matchup is so interesting because of
how largely the Commander's offense is Jaden Daniels centric. It
operates on Jadeen Daniels scrambles. You're able to move the
ball because Jayden can run it and his growth as
a passer. I think for the Lions. I'm not sure
if I would blitz him as much because you're leaving
those lanes open to scramble, but I kind of talked

(01:24:07):
about it for a established fun This is going to
be a big game for Jack Campbell and Alex Azeloni,
who are the two perfect guys that you want for
the situation. I think they kind of play off each
other really well. I think Angeloni will take more of
the zach Ertz matchups in past coverage, and I think
Jack Campbell will have the unfortunate duty of trying to
spy Jay and Daniels. But this game is going to

(01:24:28):
be so interesting because there are so many different variables
at play for this Lions defense. Because the Commander's offense
is built to take advantage of teams like these that
are a little undermanned at corner. You're a little undermanned
up front, so you gotta blitz a lot, and you
just worry about leaving the door open for the Jay
and Daniels.

Speaker 1 (01:24:46):
Terry McLaurin goball right with you. You mentioned it's just
built around one guy in such a unique way. I
think Cliff Kingsbury has had his best year as an
NFL coach you know, coordinating this offense and just at
the moment you think thought it was getting Staley. They
added some new wrinkles late in the year and he's
looked really good. And you know, if you get into

(01:25:07):
a situation where it's a single high safety like he's
thrown to McLaurin, you said, it's like so based around
one guy. I wrote a very similar note that I
just can't remember a good offense being so much about
two guys that it really is McLaurin. And last week
we saw kind of the deep crossers. He can do anything,
but that hasn't been as big a part of their offense.

(01:25:30):
And you start the game with the big shot down
the field. It really does come down to that. And
even on like the RPO kind of slant game, you
just could see them feeding McLaurin like that. What do
you think the matchup there is to try to slow
down scary Terry because it's been tough.

Speaker 8 (01:25:48):
I think you tell a Meek Robertson that Terry McLaurin
wears eighteen like Justin Jefferson, and you just you just
let him go. I think this team, they are so
built in who they are and what they are. It's admirable,
but I also think they have guys who can thrive
in these situations. They have a guy like a Meek
Robertson who they signed off the street and immediately became

(01:26:11):
their CB one as.

Speaker 7 (01:26:13):
Carlton Davis went down.

Speaker 8 (01:26:14):
I think, like I said, having Jack Campbell and Alex
Angeloni back will help shore up some of the middle
of the field issues. I don't think some of that
access over the middle of the field will be the
same like the Commanders had against the Buccaneers. But I
think for the Lions to win this game, something that
I noticed with Jane Daniels is he's still a little
bit of boom or bust when it comes to pressure.

(01:26:37):
He has a great touchdown rate, really really explosive, but
he also has a high sack rate and also a
higher interception rate. But that's the variance game you play
when you have a guy who can throw the deep
ball and can scramble as well as Daniels. So something
that I've always wondered with the Lions against these types
of quarterbacks is do you just lean into the variance

(01:26:58):
game and say, hey, if you want to beat us
running around and throwing the ball, like insane, like we'll
throw our hands up, we'll tip our cap and say
that that's fine, but we're not going.

Speaker 7 (01:27:07):
To change our game in the most important time of
the season.

Speaker 1 (01:27:10):
That's a really interesting point. And yeah, his scrambles, according
to next Gen by far led the NFL. He had
more than six hundred yards in scrambles, So it actually
wasn't a ton on design runs in terms of where
he got his production. You're right, takes a lot of sacks.
And yet I do think he's a good game manager.
He seems to know have that innate sense that very rare.

(01:27:33):
Do you see this out of a quarterback, out of
a rookie quarterback? Almost never Joe Burrow maybe had that,
although you know he was injured for part of his
rookie year. Is just he seems very calculated in when
to go for things, when not to go for things.
And I am curious how patient he'll be in the
pocket in this game, because like he left, he leaves

(01:27:53):
early a couple of times, you know against Tampa, and
I think the matchup's kind of similar that I think
they'll they'll he'll have time because most quarterbacks do have
time against Detroit, So it's when does he want to
pull it and go? When does he want to hang
in the pocket, And like he had with the touchdown throw,
where he had all the time in the pocket, and
that'll be really important. And even though he's a rookie,

(01:28:15):
I got a lot of faith in him to kind
of figure it out. Even if he makes a bad
decision or too, he usually calibrates it so well. It's
very veteran.

Speaker 8 (01:28:22):
Like it's very like you said, calculated. Even with the scrambles,
it never feels frantic. It feels like, Okay, there's nothing there.
I'm gonna go get enough dyne for first down and
I'll step out of bounce or it's a okay, there's
a free runner. I'm just gonna run right around him
and then I'll get the first down. It never feels
like he's doing any of this without the intention of Okay,

(01:28:45):
nothing's there, I gotta go, rather than a lot of
young quarterbacks kind of kind of tense up and kind
of panic at the side the pressure.

Speaker 7 (01:28:52):
He gets the pressure, he's like, Okay, I know where
I'm going with this.

Speaker 8 (01:28:55):
I know that this offense has it built in that
I can just go if I feel the pressure and
I can and I can get that first down.

Speaker 1 (01:29:02):
It's funny you mentioned Campbell before. I don't know if
we've talked much about Jack Campbell on this show. The
Lions get a lot of pop for surprising people with
that Jamir Gibbs pick and the Campbell pick got criticized.
Where are you at with some Jack Campbell right now?
Because it's funny you say that like that. He would
be the spy and he is kind of a perfect

(01:29:24):
person to do that stuff for any linebacker to have
that athleticism. But that is good for his role, Like
do you do?

Speaker 2 (01:29:29):
You do you?

Speaker 1 (01:29:30):
Where do you think he is in his development as
a second year linebacker?

Speaker 8 (01:29:33):
I think I think the best thing for Jack Campbell
was losing Angeloni to that broken arm earlier in the season,
because he stepped into the mic role and he took
on a little bit more responsibility. I think he's a
hammer in the run game. He does so much when
it comes to both inside and outside the tackles, and
he's so much quicker to the ball this season, and

(01:29:54):
he's he's a good blitzer. I mean early in his career,
they had him rushing off the edge because they had
at that stage in his career. But now that he's
playing off ball, you can kind of use him in
a lot of different ways. And he and Angelone play
off each other really well. Whereas Anzeloni's a little bit
more coverage, a little better in coverage. You can have
Jack Campbell be sort of the hammer on all of

(01:30:16):
these stunts in all the games that Aaron Glenn's gonna
want to play, or if you want to just sit
back and kind of let him spy or play a
little or play a little bit of an aggressive spy
against Daniels, he can do that as well.

Speaker 1 (01:30:28):
Yeah, it's interesting they missed Angeloni so much, and they
also missed Derek Barnes, who was a really nice presence
for them at linebacker. But Campbell's gotten better and better.
That's this is why JP's the best. I mean, I
don't know for he's got thirty two teams to cover.
I don't know for sure if he's got a great
Jack Campbell answer. But he comes, he comes prepared, he
comes ready. I ultimately think this is a good matchup

(01:30:51):
for the Lion's defense relatively, because I do. I mean,
this is I guess this is true for any defense.
But I think like a diverse deep receiver crew with
a real deal quarterback that can spread around is probably
the offense that's going to give them the most amount
of problems. And then when you flip it to the

(01:31:11):
other side, it does feel like Washington's gonna have to
try to keep up in a shootout.

Speaker 4 (01:31:16):
Now.

Speaker 1 (01:31:16):
They won a high scoring game against Philadelphia, it took
them a while to get going. That's happened a few times.
They want to shootout against Cincinnati. It is a route
that they could be competitive and win a game with.
But I do think that that's going to have to
be the route because flipping to the other side. I
know I've sort of dismissed this Commander's defense at times

(01:31:37):
this year, and they've played hard and they're pretty sound,
I think, but just talent wise and answers and where
they at are at and Dan Quinn's first year versus
Dan Campbell's fourth that other side of the ball. I
could be wrong. Feels like the biggest mismatch of Divisional
Round weekend is Lions offense versus Commanders defense.

Speaker 8 (01:32:00):
Yeah, I especially if David Montgomery is healthy. They said
he was a full participant and walks through if he plays,
you just worry about them having too many answers for everything,
something that Washington is not that great in past coverage.

Speaker 7 (01:32:15):
But what they do is.

Speaker 8 (01:32:17):
They hit people really hard up front, and they will
all they'll always be attacking, and they try and force
the issue on you and try and speed you up.
That way, they kind of take some of the pressure
off of their coverage that isn't that good. This year,
Dante Fowler Junior has been really good in this defense.
Of course, you have John Allen, Deron Payne, and then
you just get all these guys. Franky Louvu will also

(01:32:40):
rush off the edge and they just try and hammer
you game play in play out. But I worry about
that for from a Washington perspective, because Detroit's offense can
just take those little yards that you'll give them by
being so aggressive upfront, and they'll turn it into explosives.
I think until Tampa completely fell apart in their last

(01:33:02):
drive of the game, they had some success rushing along
the edges.

Speaker 7 (01:33:05):
Of the defense.

Speaker 8 (01:33:06):
They were getting a lot of outside zone, a lot
of toss plays with Buck Irving. And now you face
Jamir Gibbs, who is really good at that and they
have so many different ways of getting into it.

Speaker 7 (01:33:17):
I worry a little bit about this Washington defense.

Speaker 8 (01:33:19):
Wearing down upfront, and if they're wearing downfront, they.

Speaker 7 (01:33:23):
Can't get pressure.

Speaker 8 (01:33:24):
And if you can't get pressure, that coverage is going
to fall apart.

Speaker 1 (01:33:28):
Yeah, it's a good point about them hitting hard, because
I do think this is a game where on both
sides of the ball, they're gonna force the secondary to
make tackles on short throws. Washington's offense, I'll do that too,
and that's going to be important, like just tackling. But
you get to the running game, and this is where
it's hard to imagine. The Lions have the most explosive

(01:33:50):
runs under center by so much it's preposterous. They have
fifty six explosive runs from under center this year. The
next closest team is thirty two. And this is where
you know our friends at next gense. That helps me
out because it passes the eye test. Washington gives up,
you know, the highest success rate to runs under center,
one of the highest explosive run rates, one of the

(01:34:13):
highest yards before they make contact. And it's been a
theme on this show. You're following in the footsteps of
Greats here JP, Brian Baldinger, Seth Payne, but Wolf from
phl Y in his podcast, And it keeps being a
pattern all these games. One of the teams, maybe except
Texans Chiefs are just way bigger than the other. And man,

(01:34:35):
it just feels like the Lions are gonna be They're
they're well coached, but they also can just lean on
this Washington team in a way that I just have
a hard time seeing them hold up for four quarters.
Maybe I'll be wrong, but that's what I see. Yeah,
I just.

Speaker 8 (01:34:49):
Worry about Washington's defensive line having to constantly get hit
in this game. With the run game, that's the best
way you can slow down a pass rush, is it
If you hit them really hard in the run game,
force them to think about the run, and then you
can get the play action, which is basically what the
Lions offense wants to do. They want you to think
about having to defend the run, and as you're trying

(01:35:12):
to defend the run, boom you hit.

Speaker 7 (01:35:14):
The over route to Laporta.

Speaker 8 (01:35:16):
Then you get a'man Rossaint Brown involved and you're opening
up the entire part of that offense. So I just
worry about for the Washington defense them being so focused
on playing the pass on the way to the run
that the run is going to come first, and they're
just gonna give up explosives and if they can, just
if the Lion's just gonna lean on you and golf

(01:35:38):
doesn't have to make all these complex reads or decisions,
and you don't have to and you can't blitz them
out of it. You worry about this game becoming a
Detroit Like speed, a Detroit Lions speed run.

Speaker 1 (01:35:51):
Game right right, because it's very similar to the Bucks
have a really good offensive line. Baker had good pockets
in that game. So many play in that game. No
one even got close to Baker. And if you give
Goff that sort of time, he's an even better version
of a pocket quarterback. And you know, Seth, we were
talking about the evolution of quarterbacks and some of these

(01:36:12):
athletic quarterbacks like Jordan Love and Justin Herberts who don't
run enough. And he was asking, like, who left in
the game doesn't run? That's great, And there's one answer.
It's Jared Goff. And he's playing I think the best
football of his career, and I think he'll be able
to pick out some of these mismatches, whether it's Wagner
or Chin or Marshaun Lattimore who came back last week.

(01:36:35):
He's had the hamstring injury. They basically benched Benjamin Saint
Juice Lattimore had a rough game. I know it was
against Mike Evans, but the Lions got great, great receivers too.
I include Jamison Williams in that group, and if he's
if he's a little cooked in this game, there's just
too many mismatches for the Lions to go after.

Speaker 8 (01:36:54):
Yeah, there's too many options here. I worry so much
for Washington about the Jamison Williams of it all because
Jamison Williams is a really weird receiver where like some
plays you might not know what he's going to do,
but the other play is going to be an eighty
yard touchdown, and you just worry about the explosive aspect

(01:37:14):
of this offense with Jamison Williams on the field, and
that opens up so many more problems to where you're
so worried about the run game, so you think you
have to come up to defend the run and Jameson
Williams goes flying past your corner in safety for a
touchdown and now you're like, oh, no, we have to
defend the explosive pass and that opens up Amanra and

(01:37:34):
Sam Laporta over the middle of the field. They just
have so many answers and so many layers to this
offense that again, if you can't if Washington cannot get
any negative plays, it's a very dan Quinn defense. They
are built on sacks and turnovers and tackles for loss.
If they can't get them behind the sticks or getting

(01:37:55):
negative plays, I worry about this flow.

Speaker 7 (01:37:57):
Of the game going really bad for Washington very quickly.

Speaker 1 (01:38:00):
Yeah, and they could. We just need to see more.
Jonathan Allen hasn't looked like his peak self since coming back.
Doron Payin is a talented player. You know Newton in
the middle. They have players, And if you're gonna try
to find a weakness in the Lions offensive line, it
would be on the interior. And so it's absolutely possible. Also,

(01:38:22):
you've always got the X factor of like the Frankie
Luvu cheap shot. I know you watched the film. It's
like every week, man, there's something.

Speaker 4 (01:38:30):
Man.

Speaker 1 (01:38:31):
He had one against Mike Evans last week. He has
won like every week, which it just gets some people going,
maybe he gets someone kicked out of the game for
a fight. So I don't know if that's a strategy,
but I kind of feel like something weird has to
happen like that for this Washington defense to hang in
this game.

Speaker 8 (01:38:45):
They need the signature Frankie Luvu like ECW Pro wrestler
chair Shot. They need Frankie Luvu to be like the
peak like WCW wrestler that brings in the Kendostick. They
need to be staying man or something. He's got to
bring chaos to this game. And that's something that Frankie
Luvu does really well. He brought chaos to this defense

(01:39:06):
and for them, like I said, to create those negatives
and get an offense to so regimented off balance, you
have to have the chaos.

Speaker 1 (01:39:15):
I like to take a step back when I'm looking
at these matchups, and it doesn't mean you're going to
get it right, obviously, but this is year four of
the Campbell era. He said in that locker room last
week last year when they lost that game, there's no
guarantee we're going to get back, and they've come back
this season and handled being the favorites so well. And

(01:39:39):
that's what the Commanders want to be. And they've got
a really inspiring coaches getting more out of them than
you would expect. But they're in one year one. They're
way ahead of where the Campbell lines were in year one.
And I look at these two teams at the level
where they're at, and this is the game that you know,
I'm going to do my picks against the spread with Cynthia.

(01:40:00):
We post that show on Friday mornings, but this is
the game I feel most confident, and I don't care
how many points it is. I do think the Lions
will get there, and the Commanders could still score twenty four,
but or twenty nine or something like that, but it
could be forty to twenty nine or something like that.
That's ultimately how I see. I don't need to make
you make a pick, but if you want to, let's
go for it. JP.

Speaker 8 (01:40:21):
Yeah, I feel like this is gonna be a Lions win.
I feel like this offense just has too many problems
and has shown. Like I said, for the Washington defense
to win, they have to try to try and get
Jared Goff off schedule, but Jared Goff has actually, like
I feel like Derek Goff has. I've gained a lot
more respect for Jared Goff this season in terms of

(01:40:43):
how he operates, how he works in that offense, and
how much he's grown since he first really started with
the McVeigh offense and at the peak of their powers.
So I feel like this is gonna be the perfect
game to show that Jarreck Goff is really good, but
also that this Lions team has been here before. Even
though they don't have all their stars, they have been

(01:41:06):
in this situation. They get a home game in front
of their crowd and they can just lean on them.

Speaker 7 (01:41:12):
So I think I think as a Lions.

Speaker 1 (01:41:13):
Went, yeah, I'm sorry to cut you off there. Like
people forget thirty year olds in the NFL, they can improve,
they can keep getting better. I know it as a
Patriots fan, Like Tom Brady really was better at thirty
four than he was at twenty eight. People remember the
seven season and stuff, but like overall in terms of
his quarterback, like, he got a lot better at thirty four,

(01:41:34):
thirty six, thirty eight. I mean even though, and Jared
Goff wins in a similar sort of way, and I'm
totally with you. I think he is significantly improved even
from last year where he was already improved. So we're
both on the lions. Let's play the music, Eric, This
was This was a banger. It was a long show here. JP,

(01:41:56):
appreciate you.

Speaker 4 (01:41:56):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:41:57):
It's not gonna be as long until you come on again.
You killed it.

Speaker 2 (01:42:00):
That's all.

Speaker 7 (01:42:00):
Thanks for having me.

Speaker 1 (01:42:01):
Man, JP Acosta. Check them out at SB Nation. We
will be back, like I said on Friday with Cynthia
Friedland and the Picks and yeah, when we're counting out
the Commanders once again, you know football is back. We'll
see a Friday
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