NFC North Preview

Gregg Rosenthal and Jourdan Rodrigue go around the NFC North for a team-by-team preview of the Bears, Lions, Packers and Vikings. Gregg and Jourdan tell you which non-quarterback player on each team is the most important, what each team's biggest concern is, discuss the ceiling and floor for each team and more!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
Welcome to NFL Daily, where we're ready to talk about
the best division in football. I'm Greg Rosenthal. I'm in
the Chris Wesseling podcast studio for the first time in
a minute with Jordan Rodrigue. It is nice to be
here together. It is nice to reach the end of
the road on our division preview series. Do you agree, Jordan?

(00:26):
With me positing this is the best division in football.

Speaker 2 (00:29):
I think it is because, like I mentioned, there's no
dangling participles of teams here.

Speaker 3 (00:34):
There's no sort of just like, and then there's this team.

Speaker 1 (00:37):
There's like... I mean, you can say the name Arizona Cardinals.

Speaker 3 (00:40):
Yeah, or Raiders.

Speaker 1 (00:41):
Or Raiders. I think the other options would be the
Western divisions.

Speaker 2 (00:46):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (00:46):
Those would be the three best divisions. But... Maybe the
NFC West has the best teams at the top. When
I say best division, I want quality like you're saying throughout.
Any team could finish first. Any team could finish fourth.
Could any one of these teams make the Super Bowl?
We'll dive into that later. Jordan Rodriguez says she has
a surprising division winner. And I don't know who that

(01:08):
would be.

Speaker 3 (01:09):
I already forgot.

Speaker 1 (01:10):
I mean, at the end of the show, you're going
to have to remember. Here's what we do. Every division preview.
And this is our eighth. 12 minutes on the board.
Bunch of different categories. And at the end of the preview,
we will pick the order of the division. Let's start
with the Chicago Bears alphabetically by city. They haven't moved
cities yet. Gary would come in third alphabetically or second alphabetically,

(01:34):
but Chicago is first. What is bringing you joy about
the Chicago Bears?

Speaker 3 (01:38):
Self-awareness, Greg.

Speaker 2 (01:40):
And that is the self-awareness of head coach Ben Johnson,
who might seem a little scary and Terminator-like at times,
but he's very, very self-aware.

Speaker 3 (01:49):
His comments..

Speaker 2 (01:51):
About being the quote unquote top regression candidate were not
just a rebuttal to Liam Cohen's beef of the week.
It was actually a nod to how splash moment or
high leverage moment that the Bears were actually dependent on
throughout the 2025 season and why playing sustainably is going
to be more into what they need to do in 2026.
I liked how self-aware he was. It wasn't even like a...

(02:13):
you know, oh, I'm into the analytics or anything like that.
I mean, maybe he reads the FTN Almanac, which was
a great publication that is released every summer. But for me,
it was like, oh, yeah, no, you're very clear on
what needs to happen for this team moving forward.

Speaker 1 (02:27):
I love an offseason priority. That makes sense. Because this
has been the message from him from March on, specifically
with Caleb Williams, that, you know, we need to start
hitting the singles. We need to start playing better in
the first and second quarter so we don't need the drama.
And yet, where you say self-awareness, you could flip it

(02:49):
and read your colleague Dan Pompei's article with Ben Johnson
and say bravado. I mean, he also wants to be
the best offense in NFL history. I mean, who doesn't?

Speaker 3 (02:58):
It's okay to have goals.

Speaker 1 (02:59):
Sure. But the way he's saying it is like, I
don't just want to be the best offense. I want
to be the best offense in history. I know what
the numbers are. I know that it's not just total points.
I want to beat them in points per game. I mean,
they got some issues, but to have that kind of chutzpah,
I would say we've got the division leading amount of

(03:21):
chutzpah among the head coaches. We've got the two teams
that lead the league in fourth downs, like in terms
of going for it. I think LeFleur and Kevin O'Connell,
plenty of chutzpah there, but yeah, I love the bravado.

Speaker 3 (03:33):
I love it.

Speaker 2 (03:33):
I love that all of these guys ended up in
the same division together and they all have to play
each other because it's like now Sean McVay and Kyle
Shanahan are like, oh, we're friends, da, da, da, da, da,
in the NFC West. But this is like, no, I
would prefer to chop that guy's head off in the
NFC North.

Speaker 3 (03:51):
And that's one of the things that's bringing me joy.

Speaker 1 (03:53):
Most important non-quarterback. I'll go first with Colston Loveland.

Speaker 3 (03:57):
Dang, that's who I wrote. And then I put something else,
but yes, continue.

Speaker 1 (04:01):
Okay. Well, that's good that you put something else. Cause
I don't want, that's the only reason I took it
first is because that's the one I really wanted. You know,
when he says the goal of, of being the best
offense ever, that seems crazy. When like Khalif Raymond or
rookie Xavion Thomas is your third receiver. There's pretty major
questions at left tackle at center and You want Caleb

(04:26):
to get better. The talent doesn't speak to that level
of play. But Ben Johnson's play calling and the ascension
of his young players could make it happen. But all
those receivers are put down in the order because Colston
Loveland is the one. And for them to reach the
levels that I think Ben Johnson needs to hit. I
think Colston Loveland has to be, if not the best

(04:48):
tight end in the league, like right there in that conversation.
And he is the guy I think they're building the
offense through other than Caleb Williams. He showed down the
stretch last season for a rookie tight end. He can
handle that. I think he was almost at that level.
It's really just doing it again and building on what
he did a year ago.

Speaker 2 (05:05):
Yeah. I love it too, because they've declared their intent
really with the Also, how they went out and drafted
and they're going to have as many tight ends as
possible up because they're going to build the plane out
of Colston Loveland in the run and the pass game.
And so I love that because this is one of
the few teams in the NFL who I think could very,
very capably move between those 11, 12 and 13 personnel

(05:29):
packages when he's talking about wanting to be the best
offensive all time and the most productive ever. If you
can't basically blow the playbook wide open in this way,
you are limited in some fashion and maybe wouldn't have
that much of a chance to do it. This is
gone are the days where you're going to be sticking
in 11 the entire time or even 12 the entire time.
Like this is a team led by Colston Loveland, who

(05:50):
I suspect is going to be one of those, you know,
I would call it in my educational experience, the F
player team. for example, which basically can flip between multiple
positions along the receiving surface and multiple positions along the
running surface. And basically all of your strength of plays
is dictated by wherever that person is on the field.

(06:12):
To me, that is Colston Loveland. And he's one of
the most exciting young players we have in football right now.

Speaker 1 (06:17):
Good backup in Cole Comet. Third round pick you alluded
to at tight end and Sam Roush. So it's a
deep room, but he's the most important guy. If we
were doing preseason all pro teams, You know, maybe he's
my second team tight end behind Trey McBride. I can't
take out McBride right now, but we'll see. Who's your
most important non-quarterback?

Speaker 3 (06:35):
Whoever the hell is playing left tackle.

Speaker 1 (06:37):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (06:37):
And really, to me, it's still a huge question mark.
And it's a problem that it's still a huge question mark.
They have four guys currently competing. And if and when
Ozzy Trapilo ends up coming back from this injury after
he's practicing in a very, very limited capacity.

Speaker 1 (06:53):
Second round pick who is believed to be the future.

Speaker 2 (06:55):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (06:56):
And played well when he got in the game.

Speaker 2 (06:57):
But now they've got so potentially by October, they'll have
up to five guys competing for this left tackle spot.

Speaker 3 (07:04):
You know, Braxton Jones, I would think, would have.

Speaker 2 (07:06):
To be like the leader in the clubhouse, but it
hasn't looked great for any of these guys. And the
fact that it's still such an open battle is very,
very concerning for me. But that becomes so, so important
because that player, the run game, the pass game, all
the things that Ben Johnson says he wants to do,
it's going to really be a factor of whoever that

(07:28):
guy is going to be. So I make him the
most important right now.

Speaker 1 (07:32):
Yeah, that totally makes sense to me. And it's easier
to hide one guy on your offensive line than it
is to. So if Garrett Bradbury, who's their center, can
hold up. And there's questions about him or their second
round pick, Logan Jones, who might eventually be at center.
You know, they're going to be he's between two great
guards and Joe Tooney and Jonah Jackson. You have a

(07:53):
great young right tackle. You gave huge money to like
they have real pieces. Then maybe you can cover up
one spot. If it ends up being two spots, then
then the offense has a problem. Scheme dream. I always
let you go first, except for when I don't, because.
This is just where you feel the most joy.

Speaker 3 (08:11):
It is, yeah.

Speaker 2 (08:12):
Run game in year two for me. The two-back system
in DeAndre Swift and Kyle Menungai, it took a couple weeks.

Speaker 3 (08:18):
Kyle Menung dude, as.

Speaker 1 (08:19):
We like to call him.

Speaker 2 (08:20):
It took a couple weeks for it to come to
fruition the way that they wanted it to. Once it
did and once it started rolling, it was like one
of the most fun and most productive run games we've
seen in like 2020 onward. And I think that that's
going to be really fun when you think about what
you talked about in terms of Colston Loveland and your
most important player. in just creating and moving different gaps

(08:43):
and attack points for the defense with a two-back system.
So it's not just that you're throwing all of this
pre-snap and at-snap movement and changing assignments at the defense
in a system that on paper looks like it should
be simple, but because Ben Johnson likes to throw these
little wrinkles into it.

Speaker 3 (09:00):
Is not simple at all. Plus features really good players.

Speaker 2 (09:03):
And then now you're throwing multiple players to prepare for
and multiple, um, skill guys also involved in it to
prepare for. I just think this is going to be,
I cannot wait to see your two of a run
system like this is usually when it fully like, you know,
reveals itself for what it's going to be. And I
think they have a chance to be dominant.

Speaker 1 (09:23):
Are you a Swifty?

Speaker 3 (09:24):
I am a Swifty.

Speaker 2 (09:25):
I'm a Swifty.

Speaker 1 (09:25):
You like DeAndre?

Speaker 3 (09:26):
I'm a Swifty, yes. And I also am a Monong
dude as well.

Speaker 2 (09:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (09:30):
Swifty. DeAndre Swift. What a come up that Ben Johnson
believes in him. I think at this time a year ago,
I did not believe in him. And he looked really
good in this offense. And he's a guy. I did
my one and only fantasy draft on Monday night. And
I was like, when he got taken near me, I
was like, oh, I would have liked DeAndre Swift. I'm
going to go things go wrong. if the defense like

(09:52):
looks as bad as it looks, they are projected to
be the worst defense in the league, according to DVOA,
like in terms of efficiency. And that's because they were
great on third down last year and terrible on first
and second. And that tends to not be sticky at all.
They turn the ball over like crazy. That tends to

(10:12):
be not as sticky. Although Dennis Allen's had a pretty
good career with having defenses that turn the ball over.
But they lost Jaquan Brisker. They lost Nashawn Wright. They
lost Kevin Byer. They lost Chauncey Gardner-Johnson. And then all
the guys that are supposed to replace him. And this is,
you know, such a nickel-heavy, man-heavy defense. Kyle Gordon's hurt.

(10:33):
Tyreek Stevenson's hurt right now. Elijah Hicks, they said that
wasn't a serious injury. He's been out a month. And
then their big safety addition, who's Stacey Dales, our friend
said Kobe Bryant was taking charge of that defense. That
literally he was going to be their leader, their appointed leader.
captain on the back end. He's out for the season.
And so you're asking like a rookie Dylan Thienemann to

(10:55):
carry a lot of weight. And just in general, I
just don't know if they have the players, that linebacker either.

Speaker 2 (11:00):
Yeah. And the other thing they didn't do was change
their front structure very much. They're basically saying we're going
to roll with the guys that we have along this
defensive line and trust that they continue to take a
step forward. Well, one thing that goes unsaid in all
of that commentary is that they were built back to front.
They were really built, even though they let those defensive

(11:21):
backs go and free agency and sign elsewhere and brought
in new players, they still were built back to front.
Dennis Allen was predicated. His system is predicated on like
what I mentioned at the top high leverage plays where
you're taking, where you're taking away the ball. Um, they
were explosive to, or excuse me, they were susceptible to
explosive pass plays, but they led the league in drives

(11:44):
ending with turnovers and had the highest turnover rate of
the 2020 so far. That's for our friends at the
FTN football almanac. And so they're masters of the big moment, right?
My things go wrong. If is attached to yours in
that way. if that does not sustain a little bit better,
if they're not better on first and second down, if
they're not better against the run, if they're not so

(12:05):
dependent on specifically turnovers in on the defensive side and
then also on the offensive side, they were built around
the big moment on offense as well. And I loved
how good their run game really came along and looked.
But in the passing game, we all remember the end
of the game heroics and the flash stuff that really

(12:25):
was exciting to watch. But getting more sustainable down-to-down play,
staying more efficient down-to-down. One thing I appreciated about what
this coaching staff and the players are doing is focusing
more on end-of-half management, too. All of these things are very,
very important to making sure you're not so dependent on
splash and you can hit more doubles.

Speaker 1 (12:47):
And you just need guys who can win. And up front,
that's a big concern. So it's Montez Sweat rushing the passer.
And Bears fans could argue, and they're right. They're still
built back to front. Jalen Johnson is a great in-his-prime cornerback.
Kyler Gordon, they just need him to be healthy. You
have a first-round pick in Thienemann. Stevenson, I don't think
that's a long-term injury. So there's still hope that they

(13:09):
can be a good secondary, but they're going to have
to be because I don't think the rest of the defense...
I never gave a scheme dream. I just forgot. And
it's just kind of like, what's next level for Ben Johnson?
You talked about the end. But they were third in
pace last year. They were second in the league in
going for it on fourth. It's improving Caleb's accuracy. Just like,
what's the next step for Ben Johnson? Let's get to

(13:29):
the ceiling and the floor as we wrap up every team.
Do you think this team can make the Super Bowl?

Speaker 3 (13:36):
Yeah, I think so.

Speaker 2 (13:37):
I think their ceiling is repeat winners too, of the
NFC North. That, that would be the ceiling for me. Um,
I think the floor is third in the NFC North. Uh,
I don't think they could have, to me, they're too
well coached and too talented now in key areas and
particularly loaded on offense to where they could really stumble

(13:57):
far enough to finish last in the division. But I
do think that their schedule is doing them obviously no favors.
And that's one of the things that Ben Johnson was
pointing to is I'm not usually like, oh, but the
schedule kind of a thing before the guys actually are
on the grass. But this is a tough schedule. It's
the toughest schedule in terms of strength of opponent.

Speaker 1 (14:16):
It is a division where I'm going to pull a
Jordan and say, I think the floor of every one
of these teams is last in the division. I mean,
which isn't even that hard to take when you see
how close the division was last year.

Speaker 3 (14:28):
The old Rodriguez.

Speaker 1 (14:29):
Right. That I, I think, I think you could conceivably
see any direction of this team. I don't think they're
like the floor could fall out, but I think they
could fall down to eight or nine wins. And maybe
that's last place in this division. Like an eight win
team might, might come in last place. In this division.
It's possible. The schedule, you're absolutely right. They could all

(14:50):
end up clustered in the middle. Let's get to the Lions,
who I think hit their four last year. They only
won nine games after winning 15 the year before. How
about just Dan Campbell with a chip on his shoulder?
That's bringing me joy. You know, we got a little
bored with the Lions on some level. Like we understand
that story. It was a bummer to see them take

(15:12):
such a big step back. He knows the Ben Johnson
divorce went bad. A lot of the things we attributed
to Ben Johnson, like the trick plays and the total aggression,
like they cranked it up last year in Detroit. If anything,
they did it more to varying degrees. you know, degrees
of success, their problems were really on the defense. So

(15:33):
I just like Goff, Campbell, this group, which has been
together so long, just having a little bit of FU
energy to them this year. They're no longer the darlings.

Speaker 2 (15:42):
Yeah, and I like having a little bit of the
carrot at the end of the stick for a group
like this too, where.

Speaker 3 (15:49):
They're not really... Of course, the goals are Super Bowl
and all of these things.

Speaker 2 (15:54):
They're a little bit more battle-scarred, and I think the
goal for them isn't just winning more, but also respect
and making sure..

Speaker 1 (16:03):
They've seen some things.

Speaker 3 (16:04):
They've seen some things.

Speaker 1 (16:04):
They've had some heartbreak.

Speaker 3 (16:05):
They've seen some things.

Speaker 2 (16:07):
And Dan Campbell has really felt the, what did he say...
it was a Nietzsche reference. First, you must burn to
ash and walk through the other side. And I was like, Oh,
so he's really going through some stuff.

Speaker 1 (16:21):
He's an emotional guy. And it means so much to him.
It reminds me a little of what you documented so
well with Sean McVay back a few years. Like if,
if they struggle, like he, he's going to feel it,
but I don't think they necessarily will. What's bringing you joy?

Speaker 2 (16:34):
Well, you kind of mentioned it. They're a feel your
feelings team. And I love that. I love when we
get these rare, uh, hard on their sleeves type of
organizations and efforts. And I think that's what the Detroit
Lions is. it's part of how they captivated the country
as much as they did early on in the Dan Campbell,
Brad Holmes era. And I think they still are that

(16:56):
team and they still are capable of these things. And
I like the idea of being a big feel your
feelings group without having the weight and the heaviness of
expectations on them and the looming specter of what had
just happened to them the year before.

Speaker 1 (17:10):
And they weren't as bad last year as people think
when you dig, like they could have easily been an
11 win type of team. Let's go to the most
important non-quarterback. To me, I had two offensive options because
ultimately I think it's an offensive team. Do you have
either Blake Miller or Sam Laporta as one of your picks?

Speaker 3 (17:30):
No, I do not.

Speaker 2 (17:31):
But I see you, Blake Miller or Sam Laporta, and
I raise you, Hank Fraley. the offensive line coach. It's
not really cheating. You said we could, you said we
could pick. So I went over.

Speaker 1 (17:42):
I've done like an offensive line coach in the past.

Speaker 2 (17:44):
I'm going, I'm going overarching because I think that we
know we don't even have to say it at this point.
It's like, we are, we all know this, but just
to repeat it, Jared Goff is one of the best
passers in the NFL when he's not pressured, when he
is pressured, it falls off a cliff. So I feel like,
first of all, this, this offensive line, the way that
it is with Panay Sewell moving back over to the
left side, Blake Miller, the rookie playing on the right side,

(18:06):
obviously he's one of your most important players. And then
making sure that juice Scruggs, who seems to be the
lead off option at center here, um, because Cade Mays
is already hurt and is not expected to be back
until maybe October, if not a little bit later, that
was their big free agent signing, um, to replace Frank
Ragnow after Frank Ragnow retired. So like a lot has

(18:28):
happened to this group, um, over the last several months,
and they were below expectation of what we're used to
seeing from them last season. And so Hank Fraley coming
into this role, but then also doing some of the
run game coordination as well. All of this is so, so,
so important because when this team runs the ball well,
and when it protects Jared Goff, they are damn hard

(18:50):
to stop.

Speaker 1 (18:51):
Blake Miller, you mentioned, was the first round pick. He's
going to play right tackle. If he's a solid starter
and Sewell... takes to the transition well. I mean, that's
a great way to start your offensive line. And the
optimist case would be the offensive line wasn't that good
last year. And they were top five in giving up
pressure rate on early downs last year. And so there's

(19:13):
room to improve. And their offense was still pretty good
despite the offensive line problems. I'll go quickly on Laporta,
who already has a hip injury. similar to my argument
with Colston Loveland. He's not as dynamic, I don't think,
in the running game, but he has improved. But I
think the offense, like in Chicago, these two teams really

(19:34):
mirror each other in a lot of ways, needs to
be special. And I think Jamison Williams at wide receiver
can take another step up. We know who Amon Ross St.
Brown is. We know who Jameer Gibbs is. I think
they need Laporta to get to special, They can still
be really, really good, but that's an injury that's now
been lingering for a long time. He's missed some time

(19:55):
as a pro. He might not be ready for week one.
I just think he puts them over the top where
they could be top three, top five offense. I don't
think they make sense as a team anymore. in terms
of what they want to do, unless they're a top
five offense. You go first on scheme dream. Yeah. As usual,
you're always batting lead off.

Speaker 2 (20:13):
Well, it's nice that you set me up in a,
in a positive way there, Greg, because Sam Laporta becomes
really crucial to specifically what Drew Petzing likes to do
and what he wants to do as an offensive coordinator.
Drew Petzing is the former offensive coordinator in Arizona. What
do you really like to do? And he's of the
Kubiak specific tree. So there's some crossover between Kubiak, Gary
Kubiak and Mike Shanahan. There's all these like, you know, replicas.

Speaker 1 (20:35):
Of all the, they all kept hiring each other and
working for.

Speaker 2 (20:38):
Each other and having kids. And then those kids would
hire each other and.

Speaker 1 (20:41):
Not with each other. That's medically impossible. Sure. Like biologically.

Speaker 2 (20:45):
Thank you for that. Very important clarification. Um, I don't
think that our listeners would have found that to be
as obvious unless you really explain that.

Speaker 1 (20:52):
You could adopt.

Speaker 2 (20:54):
Um, so, so, Drew Patsing is of the Kubiak system.
And so he really appreciates tight ends and running the
offense through focal points at tight end or heavier personnel.
So a lot of 12 personnel, two tight ends or
13 personnel, three tight ends when they were in Arizona
and then really establishing bits and bobs at receiver kind

(21:16):
of around all of that. But those guys are the
focal point. So without Sam Laporta, that becomes obviously very concerning.
And then he has to change and evolve a little
bit because Amon Ra is as skilled as they come.
And so maybe they treat him maybe like a hybrid
tight end or like a power slot, like our friend
Nate Tice likes to see. I think that Drew Petzing

(21:37):
is a really good fit for what Jared Goff likes
to do. Some of the longer bootlegs and the keepers,
some of the, a ton of the play action that.

Speaker 3 (21:46):
Will still remain the same.

Speaker 2 (21:48):
And I think that it's really a good thing that
the Lions have an experienced play caller again.

Speaker 3 (21:52):
Those are the main.

Speaker 2 (21:54):
Benefits in the ads to me that I think are
positive in terms of my scheme dream.

Speaker 1 (21:58):
Yeah, I wanted to just believe in Dan Campbell's ability
to hire last year because he's been so good. But
you look at great coaches that they're not all home runs.
And it didn't work out last year. And it was
as big a deal as everyone was making it out
to be in the offseason. It took some time to
get that offense going. My scheme dream is how much...
does Kelvin Shepard, the defensive coordinator, evolve? They're a very

(22:22):
dramatic team. They love to rush three. They love to
rush six. Like, nothing in between. Like, big blitzes, top
of the league. Only rushing three and dropping everyone back
into coverage, most in the league. They have three linebackers
on the field, most in the league. They don't have
three good linebackers right now, so that's a little worrisome. Like,
they're starting Devin White right now. That gets into my

(22:45):
things go wrong if. Certainly, they don't play... nickel date,
which is means five defensive backs on the field. They
play that the least they love to have a big,
you know, stack the box, stop the run. It's, it's
just dramatic. And I think it's risky kind of like
a Dennis Allen defense. Again, these teams are mirrors.

Speaker 2 (23:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (23:03):
And so I think it's a boom or bust type
of defense. So how does Kelvin Shepard year two calling
plays play? Evolve, I think, is big. And that gets
into like the things go wrong if for me, which
is just the back seven of this defense linebacker and
the secondary getting absolutely flamed on paper. This is a
rough looking linebacker in defensive back group until the safeties

(23:24):
get healthy. I would posit if you were just drafting
talent and you go linebacker and and definitely the secondary
before Joseph and you know, Branch get back. I mean,
it's a bottom five group.

Speaker 4 (23:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (23:36):
It's a huge concern to me because Kirby Joseph and
Brian Branch, they might miss into week one.

Speaker 3 (23:42):
We don't know. We don't really.

Speaker 1 (23:43):
Oh, I think so. Yeah. The hope is that maybe
Branch in September, Joseph, who knows?

Speaker 3 (23:48):
We don't have like a real timeline.

Speaker 2 (23:50):
And obviously because of his legal situation, Terry and Arnold,
who was depth at this point was released and he
was more, you know, playing corner.

Speaker 3 (23:57):
But it's for me, you cannot.

Speaker 2 (24:01):
This this is incongruous of a group based on where
football is right now. Like, They found this out and
Kevin Shepherd even talked about this, this spring where they
found out that you cannot play base the way that
they played base defense. So the three linebackers on the field,
you cannot play it this way when your division has
such good tight end play. When so many players are

(24:24):
in these mismatches coming either out of the slot and
they're the tight end, or they are the gigantic receiver
or the mismatch receiver placed in the slot.

Speaker 3 (24:33):
You can't play that way.

Speaker 2 (24:34):
What a lot of teams around the league are going
to be doing this year is maybe staying in base
to defend the run which is the two linebackers but
they will also then put a buffalo nickel or a
star player so a larger safety usually a safety who
can cover in the slot so when they're saying it's
base what they're really doing is playing base nickel so
really what they have to be doing is loading up

(24:57):
their defensive backfield with those players the problem greg that
you mentioned and i know our listeners are screaming it
into their phones right now.

Speaker 3 (25:04):
They don't have enough guys.

Speaker 2 (25:06):
They don't have enough guys because you really want like
a Brian branch to play that position for you. And
they are not healthy enough to play defense the way
that they should be playing defense right now, particularly in
this to compete in this division. And so I am very,
very concerned about this because I think Kelvin Shepard has,
has all the talent in the world, but those, those
types of adjustments had to have happened. And then injuries

(25:28):
are preventing them from maybe getting into the adjustments that
that they really feel like they want to. And even
when they go up against like a Minnesota, for example,
which I think we'll get to this, we'll just live
in 11 personnel, like which feels like a throwback at
this point. You still need to be in sub packages
more of the time to defend that kind of a look.
And so I'm really, really concerned about this. This is

(25:49):
my big time red flag. Things go wrong if, because
I love what they're doing up front and their guys
that have come along and Aiden Hutchinson is obviously a superstar,
but the secondary is so concerning to me.

Speaker 1 (26:01):
The optimistic point of view is that Branch and Joseph
are hopefully full go like back to who they are
by the time games really matter for the Lions. This
is a team where it's about the playoffs. They have
a solid cornerback in DJ Reed who they gave a
lot of money to, but we're a little disappointed by
how he was last year. You know, after that, it's
like Rakia Sin and Christian.

Speaker 3 (26:23):
Roger McCreary's back there.

Speaker 1 (26:24):
He's there. It's some like names you recognize. Avante Maddox.
They just need to coach it up. But on paper,
it's not the best looking group. For my lanyard, sometimes
we do just like a little extra if we have time.
Tyler Lacey is starting for this team at Edge. We
had talked about like the Edge battle coming into camp.
He was like a waiver pickup from Jacksonville originally. Right now,

(26:46):
he's playing ahead of DJ Wanham and their second round pick,
Derek Moore, who's reportedly looked pretty good. So they're a
little deeper, but some surprising news there. And then also,
I just wanted to point out their win total. And
this brings us right to the ceiling floor of the
Dan Campbell era. Just here are their total wins since
he's coached. Three, nine, 12, 15, and then nine. So

(27:13):
at no point in this run has any season that's
followed been within three wins of the season before. You know,
it's plus six, plus three, plus three, minus six, If
this was like a SAT problem, like what would, what
would be next? Minus three. Either way, if they keep
this up, they're either winning 12 games or they're winning

(27:34):
six games. I hope that doesn't.

Speaker 2 (27:35):
I was going to say it's all multiples of three too.
So for me, I would, I probably, I'd say their ceiling,
I would go.

Speaker 1 (27:41):
Back to 12. 12 feels right.

Speaker 2 (27:42):
And honestly, like, again, I hate that I became this
person doing this exercise because I hate talking about the
schedule before games are actually played. But the Lions are
set up pretty nicely for this season. schedule in terms
of strength of opponent and i i i picked them
to finish first in the nfc north as their ceiling
i think feasibly i could see that and i think

(28:04):
we've already seen what their floor is it's nine wins.

Speaker 1 (28:07):
I agree i think the ceiling is yeah winning the
division can this team make it to the super bowl
with this defense in this conference It's tough, but I
think so. I do think somehow they could find a way,
but it feels more likely that their ceiling is like

(28:27):
a division winner and like a conference title winner. And
as it goes to the schedule, look, that's the benefit
of losing those games down the stretch. They got the
last place schedule, so a couple of their games are
different than the other teams in their division. And I
know the numbers say... that even like the Bears, they
do have a harder, like those couple games are tough.
But out of division, this division has the AFC South.

(28:50):
I mean, NFC South, that's great. And they have the
AFC East, which has two of the teams that you
would be expected to be favored against. So this entire
division does have a chance, I think, to do what
they did a year ago, which is get close to
having everyone over 500. Last year, it actually happened. That's
very difficult, but I think it could happen for all
four of these teams.

Speaker 3 (29:10):
I love it.

Speaker 2 (29:10):
Can I actually tell you my lanyard? I know we're
out on time.

Speaker 1 (29:15):
Oh, no. Oh, wow.

Speaker 3 (29:17):
It's a hashtag noticing.

Speaker 1 (29:19):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (29:19):
I am hashtag noticing that a lot of their offensive
line depth is not homegrown depth. It's a little bit
of a drafting red flag to me, and they've had to...
If you're drafting, you have to continue to funnel guys
in there... Um, even if you are like a pretty
top heavy team, I mean, you, we sort of joke
about this when the 49ers sit there and they don't,

(29:40):
They don't end up being able to play like their future,
their left tackle of the future for X amount of years,
but they still went out and got them. And so
it's like juice Scruggs and Ben Barton and Seth McLaughlin,
who's the backup backup center. And, and Larry Borum is
backing up right. It's it's guys that they've gone out
and acquired and that's fine, but I am hashtag noticing

(30:01):
that there's not a lot of draft and develop depth
along the offensive line. And when we look at the team,
like the Los Angeles chargers, for example, that bit them
in the butt in a big way last year.

Speaker 1 (30:11):
A lot of misses for Brad Holmes. A lot of
hits and misses in terms of the recent drafts. Eric,
as we go to break here, I just want you
to adjudicate. You know, the buzzer had already gone off.
We've been pretty loose with that, but going back to
another category to talk backup offensive linemen, yay or nay?

(30:32):
Is that okay?

Speaker 2 (30:33):
Freedom!

Speaker 1 (30:33):
I had my finger on that.

Speaker 4 (30:35):
The Canadian geese honking horn button, but I felt mean.

Speaker 1 (30:40):
I mean, we've gone eight division previews. I've had to
hit it once.

Speaker 2 (30:43):
We kind of just, we've been like long haul truckers.

Speaker 3 (30:46):
You just got to give me the cup of coffee.

Speaker 2 (30:48):
I would have felt mean to be honest.

Speaker 4 (30:50):
Just throwing it at Jordan. Eighth division preview. And all
of a sudden I'm like, Hey, nope, too much.

Speaker 1 (30:56):
I'll let the listeners decide what they think. We will
be back in, in yes, the best division in football.
And we will be talking about the Green Bay Packers
after the break. This could have happened like 90 seconds ago.

Speaker 3 (31:12):
Yeah, well, sorry you lost that 90 seconds.

Speaker 1 (31:20):
Back on NFL Daily. The Green Bay Packers are a
team that's already given joy to Jordan Rodriguez in this
month because she got to visit them, to hang out
at Lambeau, to talk to Jordan Love. What specifically, I guess,
are you going to highlight here about this team as
we see the legend Steve Weiss coming back?

Speaker 3 (31:42):
Hall of Famer.

Speaker 1 (31:43):
We are working on securing him as our designated QB
Island hitter. We're returning on Kibi Island soon.

Speaker 3 (31:52):
Can't wait.

Speaker 2 (31:54):
What is bringing me joy about the Green Bay Packers
is Jordan Love. Honestly, because I think he is so
poised to have. a truly incredible season. I think that
as the season continues and if everybody stays healthy, which
is our big caveat here, he will be talked about
as an MVP candidate. And I just have to say,
like being around him, I could really understand why people

(32:17):
in that building talk about him the way that they do.
He is so calm and, but it's not, it does
not come without an edge. He reaches every person in
that locker room. He has a, just this incredible poise
and confidence. And it's like, it's not a, um, it's
not a demeanor that is maybe a pushover and it's not,

(32:38):
it's very, it's of himself, very sure of himself. And
I think that that has had a positive effect on
everybody in that building. And it certainly has impacted the
receiver clarity that we're now seeing. We'll get to that
in a minute, but he absolutely is going to be
one of my favorite players to watch all season. I
hope he has the season that I am expecting him
to have because I think he's poised for truly great

(32:59):
things this year.

Speaker 1 (33:00):
Yeah, he plays like he presents as a person, which
is just a cool cockiness. I mean, he's always played
with crazy confidence in what he is willing to try.
But I love that we have made it to this
moment in his career where it does feel like all
the learning under Aaron Rodgers, all the experience now that
he's had over the last few years. Statistically, you know,

(33:22):
he was there with the top five quarterbacks in the
NFL last year on a rate basis. And yet, I
do think they're going to need to crank him up
a little bit, rely less on the running game, and
to stay that efficient while just passing more. I mean,
when I looked at his final numbers last year, I
was kind of shocked at how little he threw the ball.

(33:43):
And yet, my most important non-quarterback. He's going to be
a man by the name of Luke Butkus. Not a
lot of heat for their offensive line coach, Luke Butkus,
even though he's done a great job over the last
few years and his name is Butkus.

Speaker 2 (33:57):
I can't believe you gave me crap for having an
offensive line coach when one team later, you also had
an offensive line coach.

Speaker 1 (34:04):
I did refer to the fact I think I've had
an offensive line coach at some point in the process
and You know, this was it.

Speaker 2 (34:12):
Listeners, this is a little slice of life for me
and Greg Rosenthal right now.

Speaker 1 (34:15):
Consistency. I need to work on that. They have done
a great job of like, they'll figure it out. Every
year there's questions about, okay, who's here? Who's there? This group? Oh,
and then in the end, it's greater than the sum
of their parts. They are second, and this is from
the team, so of course it's going to be favorable,
but it's just a fact. Since they hired Luke Buckus,

(34:36):
who doesn't get a lot of pop as one of
the top offensive line coaches, they're second in the NFL
in sack percentage allowed, sacks high allowed last season, very
high in percentage of explosive runs and passes. That's been
a little more up and down while he's been there.
So they've always managed to figure it out, and yet, like,
you like... Zach, uh, Baco Morgan, uh, Baco, uh, I

(35:00):
should have written it down. That was from memory. So I'll,
I'll accept any criticism there at right tackle the former
Zach Tom. And then Sean Ryan is a guy who
had never played center before, but they loved what they
saw and gave him a long-term contract.

Speaker 4 (35:12):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (35:12):
There's two spots that you feel pretty good about after that.
It's trying out their former right, you know, left tackle
first round pick Jordan Morgan for the first time at
that position as a, as a pro. It's a lot
of questions. It's a battle at guard. They might have depth, like,
but they're figuring it out. They're figuring it out.

Speaker 3 (35:27):
Jagger Burton is going to probably take that guard spot.

Speaker 1 (35:30):
That's, that's one of the spots that's open and it's fine.
But I just think to your Hank Fraley point before,
like he, they've kind of relied on having a top
10 offensive line and on paper, like my guy, Luke
got a lot of work to do.

Speaker 2 (35:44):
Yeah. It's going to be a huge part of what
they do. It kind of goes hand in hand with
my most important non quarterback. As we see Andrew Siciliano
now outside the glass, this is fun.

Speaker 3 (35:55):
We have everybody visiting us.

Speaker 1 (35:56):
The season's about to start. Yeah. By the way, Luke Buckus,
nephew of Dick Buckus, not the son, not the grandson,
but the nephew of Hall of Famer Dick Buckus.

Speaker 3 (36:04):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (36:04):
Just wanted to get that in there.

Speaker 3 (36:05):
Big shoes to fill.

Speaker 2 (36:06):
Um, in terms of some of the things you mentioned
with the run game, it was funny in talking to
Maliflor at Packers camp. It was like, he sort of
was sarcastically self-aware about how much he ran the ball,
maybe overly ran the ball last year.

Speaker 3 (36:20):
He's like, well, and you know, I do tend to
run the ball a lot.

Speaker 2 (36:24):
And I go, you know, and, and that's what one
thing that they're going to have to really think about
this year. It goes into my, one of my most
important non-quarterbacks slash even things go wrong. If, and talking
about Marshawn Lloyd, for example, the running back, um, who
has not been hurt or has not been healthy for
multiple years now, who they've had high expectations and the

(36:45):
expectation of really a large level of productivity for them,
but has just, hasn't been able to get on the
field and had a clean training camp and an exciting
training camp with Josh Jacobs still going through the process of,
of potential suspension for some really, really serious legal issues.
This is really, really important because he's also not just

(37:06):
crucial depth for them. but he is their best. I
would say their best zone runner that they have on
this roster. And the way that Matt LaFleur likes to
run his offense, the wide zone and the zone run
specifically are directly tied to what they call their transportation schemes,
which are the sweeps and the screens and all of
the misdirection things that they like to do in order

(37:28):
to make everything look like it could be either run
or pass. So it's a huge element of their playbook.
that is really predicated on a, to your point, the
offensive line doing what it needs to do. And also
this running back who they are taking a gamble on,
even though he has not been healthy, um, for, for
several years. And so to me, it's a lot of

(37:49):
things at once it's scheme dream. It's most important on quarterback.
It's offensive line, like you mentioned, but that's kind of
the Packers for you. Their questions that they have are big,
big questions.

Speaker 1 (37:58):
They are Marshawn Lloyd's been a guy who hasn't been
able to stay healthy and I've watched every one of
his preseason carries. He's kind of picking and choosing. He's
had good holes to run through. I think he needs
to be a little more decisive. I do wonder if
they will look for a veteran or if they're confident
in Josh Jacobs, who hasn't been healthy. Josh Jacobs faces

(38:21):
five criminal charges, including strangulation and suffocation. It was a
domestic disturbance initially. It's complicated how... whether they're charged and
in investigation and allegations, but these are the initial charges, battery,
domestic abuse, critical damage to a property, domestic abuse, disorderly
kind of, it was a lot intimidation of a victim

(38:41):
and whether the NFL waits for that legal process to
wait out. I kind of hate that we're back in
the place of the NFL that like if a video
came out that showed Josh Jacobs, it would be the
Ray Rice thing all over again. But because we don't
see a video that, it doesn't get mentioned too much
and that they're of course just going to play him. Um,
but I think, I think it's fair to have some

(39:03):
criticism of the Packers just being like, okay, that's fine. Uh,
we're just going to move on from that. And also
he just hasn't been healthy. So it's a complicated football
and off field issue for Josh Jacobs, but that makes
me think they should get another player in there either way. Just,
just get it either way. My scheme dream. I'll go
first this time. I say, it every time. Well, just

(39:26):
how aggressive is Jonathan Gannon? What is Jonathan Gannon in 2026?
Jonathan Gannon was the Cardinals head coach last year. He
came from Philadelphia where he went back and forth based
on the talent that he had of like, I'm just
going to sit back and let everything happen and and
hopefully let my offense cook. And then sometimes he was aggressive,

(39:47):
you know, certainly in Arizona, he would, him and Nick
Rallis were very creative. I think he's going to have
to provide an advantage because you've mentioned on the show,
they might have a pre Micah Parsons plan and a
post Micah Parsons plan. Micah Parsons, their best player is
coming off, you know, that serious ACL. And he had
said week six, I believe it is against the Cowboys is,

(40:09):
is probably the earliest he could get back. The schedule helps.
early in the season at Minnesota at the jets versus
Atlanta at the bucks in terms of offenses you face,
like that's manageable for the defense. I'm not saying it's
all easy overall teams, but you could survive that early
portion of the season, but. On paper, they're going to
need their coach to be coaching because I don't really

(40:32):
see the pass rush.

Speaker 2 (40:32):
Well, it's such a dire situation to the level that
they've already shown some of what they're going to rely
on in the preseason. You don't see them playing as
vanilla as some of these other teams in the preseason.
You're seeing Jonathan Gannon blitz. He doesn't really like to blitz.
Like I say, he hasn't tendencies, has not had tendencies
towards blitzing too much. Now, what they have loved to

(40:54):
do is have moved players. And so the combination of
manufacturing pressure is going to be really, really important. And
when I was at training camp was incredible. It was,
it was a significant uptick in anything I'd ever seen
from them, uh, in this era and anything I'd seen
from Jonathan Gannon in his coaching style either. And then
also leaning on the three safeties that they're going to start,

(41:17):
which Evan Williams, Xavier McKinney, and Javon Bullard and Javon Bullard,
who I just talked about the importance of like a
Buffalo nickel or a star.

Speaker 3 (41:25):
To me would be that player.

Speaker 2 (41:26):
Although Evan Williams and Xavier McKinney can move around to this,
to me, accidentally sets them up in the perfect, uh,
meeting of the moment of where they need, how they
need to be covering teams. Anyway, it just stinks for
them that their pressure isn't going to be there right
away unless it's manufactured. So for me, having those three
safety looks and then keeping edge Cooper on the field
in that quote unquote base nickel that I just talked about,

(41:49):
that's their money plan to me because, and certainly their
pre Micah Parsons plan because edge Cooper, uh, even though
he'll play off ball, will still rush the passer. And
then they'll have the extra defensive back to either cover
or defend the run like they want to be able
to do without having to overcomplicate it. Some of the
pressure will be more complicated than we've seen when it's

(42:10):
being designed.

Speaker 3 (42:11):
But I think this is such a.

Speaker 2 (42:12):
Simple solution to what is a huge problem for them.
And I would hope that they don't overthink it or
overcomplicate it.

Speaker 1 (42:18):
Yeah, my things go wrong if is just asking a
couple rhetorical questions. who is their best defensive lineman? It's
like Devante Wyatt. They gave a contract to, so I
guess he's probably it right now. You know, the other
options would be Lucas Van Ness, Baylin Terrell. And then

(42:39):
the other, the other question would be who is their
best cornerback?

Speaker 3 (42:44):
Sissy.

Speaker 1 (42:45):
Brandon Cissé, second round pick.

Speaker 3 (42:47):
Like, I say it wrong every single time.

Speaker 1 (42:49):
A very boom or bust prospect, like who may or
may not start, you know, it probably is starting.

Speaker 3 (42:55):
If he's healthy, he's going to start, I bet.

Speaker 1 (42:57):
But yeah, like if you're counting on a second round
rookie to be your best cornerback.

Speaker 3 (43:00):
No, they have huge, huge issues.

Speaker 1 (43:02):
It's trouble.

Speaker 2 (43:03):
I'm glad you brought that up because they do have
huge depth issues. And that's again, why I think they're
just going to lean. They're going to totally funnel this
entire plan through the safeties because they are really strong
there and really depend on at least one of those
players being a move player, like how I had mentioned,
you know, back when I was reporting on this, that,
that they use the Gannon use Buddha Baker, for example, um,

(43:25):
which is not going to fix everything. but you can't
expect to fix everything before Micah Parsons returns. And even
then you might not be able to fix everything because
corner to me is a huge, huge concern where I'm
not as concerned anymore is at their receiver position. Yeah.
Because not only did I see clarity in that group,
but it also is showing up in the preseason as well.
What clarity they have with Matthew Golden in a more

(43:47):
defined role with Christian Watson playing the role that he
seems very, very equipped and built for. I think Sky
Moore makes this team. I mentioned the transportation schemes. And
then I really actually appreciated what I saw from Savion Williams,
who's been hurt, but he's big, he's fast, he's strong.
I just think he could really contribute to this group

(44:09):
if he's asked.

Speaker 1 (44:09):
Jaden Reed, still in the mix. The defined roles, like
their route to being as good as they want to
be is a... extremely efficient, and I think higher volume
passing attack. They've already been efficient and love just being
like an MVP candidate. Now going through the exercise, these
three teams at the top of the division, if we're

(44:32):
considering Minnesota in terms of looking at Vegas in terms
of the odds are expected to come in fourth, they're
all so similar. They all just need their defense to
be good enough. I think the Packers have higher hopes eventually,
but I don't know. They might all just cancel each
other out a little bit where the ceiling is more of, yeah,

(44:53):
they can win the division. It's a little hard to
see this team making the Super Bowl. And the floor,
I do think, is last place in this division, which
would cause some real soul-searching for this organization. I..

Speaker 2 (45:05):
Think that their biggest weak spot is no longer going
to be a weak spot in October when Micah Parsons
comes back. And I think that with Micah Parsons and
then someone who we didn't mention but absolutely should, Tucker Kraft,
being back in the mix on this offense, this to
me is one of the most high ceiling teams in

(45:25):
this division. And certainly one of the most high ceiling
teams in the NFL. That doesn't mean that they, that
doesn't mean that they have.

Speaker 1 (45:31):
So you think they have a higher ceiling than the bears?

Speaker 2 (45:33):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (45:34):
And then the, how about the lions? Uh, About Tide.

Speaker 3 (45:38):
About Tide.

Speaker 2 (45:38):
And that's why this division is hard. But that's the thing.
It doesn't mean they don't have glaring weaknesses. It's just
that I think that their best players are so much
better than so many other best players. And with the quarterback,
that to me makes them Super Bowl potential once everybody's back.

Speaker 1 (45:54):
I buy that. It's one of those divisions, like I said,
you could tell me anything. Matt LaFleur has provided such
a high floor for this team. I think that's underrated.
Just contending each and every year, eventually figure that they'll
break through. Then they really haven't, you know, they haven't
had the real down year. And so I don't expect

(46:16):
that to happen. I think this is a playoff team,
but I think that about the first three teams. And
I know when we get to the end of this
month and are picking like our playoff teams, like it's
hard to squeeze three teams from the same division unless
you're keeping like the Seahawks or the Rams out, you know,
you could do it. You could find a way to
do it.

Speaker 3 (46:34):
What about the ultimate X factor? Trace Mack.

Speaker 1 (46:37):
Oh yeah. Trace Mack. Talk about a gamer guy that
was struggling in practice. You put them out there in
the preseason and he looks like a Brandon Aubrey part two.
Love it. Minnesota Vikings. Like I said, In Vegas, the
odds are pretty close in this division, but they are,
you know, it's kind of the big three. And then
the Vikings, what is bringing you joy about this team?

Speaker 3 (46:59):
Brian Flores' contract extension.

Speaker 1 (47:01):
Oh, okay. I like that.

Speaker 3 (47:02):
Which is a kind of a deep, winter throwback.

Speaker 1 (47:05):
I forgot it ever happened.

Speaker 3 (47:06):
Exactly.

Speaker 2 (47:07):
I was going to say it really, really went under
the radar and was sort of forgotten about. It was
one of the best hires a team could make in
the moment. And it has remained that because this, this group,
which like doesn't let you down, like where you're supposed
to think about, um, regression or things not being sticky,
quote unquote, for, for defenses and certain things that like
high volume pressure, uh, versus more, uh, conservative play, like

(47:31):
things that are, are high variance versus not like Brian
Flores just says, uh, Maybe we'll regress between like week
seven and nine and then we're fine again. Like he
really does not give a hoot about your regression.

Speaker 1 (47:45):
I love it. Not a word I think Brian Flores
would use. Yeah, right.

Speaker 2 (47:50):
I'm working on the live calling. I'm working on not
swearing as much.

Speaker 1 (47:54):
I think that's important. I think it's good for Eric
as well.

Speaker 4 (47:57):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (47:58):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (47:58):
So, um, but I, I just think it was such a, again,
it went under the radar. I wanted to bring it
up here. He has been such an asset for this
group and he's going to have his work cut out
for him this year with a couple of big personnel questions.

Speaker 3 (48:09):
On that side of the ball.

Speaker 1 (48:10):
Yeah. He, he is part of my things go wrong.
If like him, not just being spinning some magic, but
in terms of joy, it's just Justin Jefferson with a quarterback.
And that's, that's, You know, a little bit of hope
is built into me saying that. I believe that Kyler

(48:30):
can feed him the ball, that Kyler can do enough.
And if Kyler doesn't perform as well as Vikings fans want,
I still think there's going to be a lot of
highlights with Justin Jefferson. When Kyler... has had like real
deal receivers. And he really hasn't that often in his career.
If you look back, cause it was like the end
of Fitzgerald, just like one year, he had that 1400

(48:51):
yard year with Deandre Hopkins. And then Hopkins got hurt
and kind of was never the same again. When Trey
McBride emerged, it was catching 111 passes from Kyler. So
he is not afraid to go to his best players.
And if you think about Kyler's career and look at
those Cardinals team, it is easily the deepest group of
weapons and that he's ever had. And he's someone that's

(49:13):
not afraid to throw it. So I think he's receiver friendly,
whether like he's reading the defense and getting all the operations.
and not making mistakes that's kind of what's going to
determine if they win or lose but from a pure
numbers and like enjoying watching on sunday i'm just happy
to have the best receiver in football justin jefferson with
a quarterback and yes that was uh you know just

(49:35):
like the mildest of shots to Jamar Chaser and any
other receiver that wants to believe that they're the best.
I still stick with Justin.

Speaker 2 (49:42):
Well, I just can't wait to see him do his
thing the way we know he can and not sort
of have to bandaid over certain things that they struggled with. J.J. McCarthy,
you know, at the at the wheel last season for me.
this kind of goes into my, a little bit of
my scheme dream.

Speaker 1 (49:56):
Go for it. Just do it.

Speaker 2 (49:58):
I have just my hot take about this group is
that every other team in this division is going to
load up and play heavier personnel all the time. And
the Vikings should not, they should not do that. And
I don't think they want to based on looking at
their roster construction. It's Justin Jefferson, Jordan Addison, and Juwan Jennings.

Speaker 3 (50:13):
Like is this sneaky one of.

Speaker 2 (50:15):
The best three receiver groups in the NFL when you
think about how high Justin Jefferson's ceiling is.

Speaker 3 (50:22):
And Juwan Jennings is a really, really solid receiver, too.

Speaker 1 (50:25):
It could be the best.

Speaker 2 (50:26):
A good to great one. And Jordan Addison, we've seen
big potential from him, too. They will be and should
be one of the rare teams that does live in
11 this year and actually bodes well for them because
every other defense in the league is preparing for an
onslaught of heavier personnels. And so getting the speed and
the mismatches with these players is going to be, to me,

(50:49):
kind of a little bit of a secret weapon. And
it's where Kevin O'Connell wants to live there, too. He
loves playing in 11.

Speaker 1 (50:54):
It's slept on how loaded this offense is if Kyler
can deliver. I think Jordan Addison is very underrated. He's
made some knuckleheaded decisions off the field with the speeding
and everything like when he was young. And yet like
he is better than his numbers say he is one
of the better number twos in the league. I think

(51:14):
Jennings is one of the better threes. They've said they've
loved this camp from Miles Price, who is like an
undrafted free agent, who I think is going to be
a little bit of a factor. They even had, you know,
they had Ty Felton third round pick a year ago
is improving. And then TJ Hawkins is a year healthier.
Hopefully he's obviously not as very peak, but him and
Josh Oliver are a good combination when you need, want
to use. the receivers. So like the tight end at receiver.

(51:37):
So I like all that. And my scheme dream is
the running side with Frank Smith. Actually, we've hit Frank
Smith and their zone running. They want to do so
much in the camp. I'm going to go back to
Flores and just say it's rare to have so much continuity.
I know they've lost some players. They got rid of
Grenard because of finances. Harrison Smith retires. We'll see if

(51:58):
he comes back. But it's pretty rare to have like
a guy who is now has so many of his
guys just year after year since he took over Flores
and they were 24th in efficiency when he took over.
11 third second. I mean, this is an elite defense.
And so his guys, I would include Josh Metellus, the safety,

(52:18):
Byron Murphy, the cornerback, Andrew Van Ginkle. These are all
guys they brought in. Blake Cashman. I mean, Eric Wilson
is a linebacker. Flores is great identifying talent that's going
to work because I think he's big on bringing these
players in. They're not stars, but they get his system
and they're all back together again.

Speaker 2 (52:34):
Well, and I even trust him to make the most
with some of the personnel shuffling that they've had to do,
because I loved the identification and wanting to bring in
a guy like Jamal Adams, who if you're going to
be a guy who is blitzing a lot and you
are going to come only do that essentially for a defense,
it's going to be the Brian Flores defense. And obviously
he got hurt. So that was really unfortunate, but I

(52:57):
always pay attention to, especially my colleague, Alec Lewis and
some of the, the camp reports, because Alec is really
good at saying the thing without overtly saying the thing,
because PR would, you know, you know, What a lot
of people don't know is the condition of the credential
is you can't report certain scheme things if you're a
beat writer, but you can hint at it. And Alec
is so good at it. And he just has these
little hints, sprinkles of players who it is very clear

(53:20):
they are Flores guys. And it's this kid, Jacob Thomas,
an undrafted free agent out of James Madison.

Speaker 1 (53:25):
Let's go.

Speaker 2 (53:26):
It was basically like running the show at safety at
a certain point and commanding all the rotations of the
funky stuff that they like to do. And I'm looking
at James Madison and the history of that defense and
how they overachieved. And I'm sitting there and I'm like..

Speaker 1 (53:38):
The Dukes.

Speaker 3 (53:39):
I'm like, oh, duh. Of course he's a Brian Flores guy.

Speaker 2 (53:42):
And I sit there and I love this about Brian
Flores is that he can basically ID exactly what will
work specific to his thing.

Speaker 1 (53:51):
And nobody..

Speaker 2 (53:52):
Else even knows what the hell that is because he,
he has no tendencies. He's so hard to predict because
he loves five man fronts or six man fronts. He
loves dropping everybody. He loves blitzing on early downs or
then sometimes not like it just, it's, it's fantastic. I'd
like to see them continue to improve up front as well.
It sounds like Dallas Turner is having an awesome camp.
I know you love your guy, big citrus as well.

Speaker 1 (54:14):
Um, Dominique orange. I have Turner as my most important
on quarterback.

Speaker 2 (54:18):
Okay, great.

Speaker 1 (54:18):
Cause I just think he, you know, he's a ascending
third year pass rusher and they've had a history of
really great pass rushes and they're thinner than they've been
in the past. And so can he get to, I
think he can definitely get to a Jonathan Grenard level.
Can he get to like a, a Daniel Hunter back
in the day type spicy type level where you're a
top five to 10 passer? I don't know, but he's

(54:40):
been an ascending player and I think they need him
to be great. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (54:43):
I think, My things go wrong.

Speaker 2 (54:46):
If unfortunately has a lot to do with the position
that somewhat ironically is always the biggest question with this team,
with the head coach that has talked so much about
developing quarterbacks and working with quarterbacks. And that is Kyler Murray.
If we get a streaky Kyler Murray season.

Speaker 3 (55:02):
But it's not just Kyler.

Speaker 2 (55:04):
And I, and I appreciate what we've seen with them
from the off season that they are working on rebuilding
this run game with Aaron Jones, with Jordan Mason, who
I think Jordan Mason is still a little bit underrated
and this type of system, he can really thrive in it.
But for me, trying to lift the floor as much
as possible with a better run game and then adding
Kyler to the mix as a runner is a really,

(55:26):
really exciting concept. Not that he's going to be taking
off on these zone reads all the time, but the
threat of him taking off is so significant because of
what he still can do. My biggest concern and question is,
is he, if he's streaky, if we get eight or
nine really, really good games, really good Kyler games, and
then we get streakiness or potential injury, the rest of it,

(55:48):
because if he's just there for, as of now of
one year, they are going to push hard to try
to maximize what he does. And I have concern about
that on his body. Um, but we'll see, we will see.

Speaker 1 (56:02):
And I just, I really want to run more.

Speaker 4 (56:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (56:04):
And I, but I really want to see this. I
really want every, I want this to be a best
case scenario because it's more fun for us. Because how
fun would that be to see him extend plays and
just like throw the ball the hell down the field
to like a Justin Jefferson or Jordan Addison? Like there's
so much fun potential in what this offense can be.
He's going to align from everywhere. It's just going to be,

(56:25):
it's exciting to think about and I hope they can
meet the potential.

Speaker 1 (56:28):
Huge year in his career. It's really, what direction is
the rest of your career going to take year for
him and possibly KOC? Because KOC, you know, things go wrong.
If for me is like, if it's all just like
a little too much, the, the natives are a little
restless there in Minnesota and just there, there could be,
can he handle any negativity? Can Kyler handle if, if

(56:50):
it doesn't start great, I could just, it's such a
tough division. I could just see things spiraling a little
and being dramatic, but no, I like that Kyler. I
was trying to think who's had a career like Kyler.
And like, this is like, The inflection point. The best
I could come up with while you were talking was
Carson Palmer. Nice to know you were paying attention. No,

(57:11):
I was listening, but I'm also thinking of like Kyle.
I totally agree with what you're saying. Yeah. Because it's
not Sam Darnold. Sam Darnold was more prototypical of what
KOC wanted, but also like he hadn't been that guy
before Minnesota. Kyler Murray is a number one pick is
produced at a really high level and had MVP streaks
in him, which is similar to Palmer for me. But
think how much different we think of Carson Palmer because
of the Arizona days. Can Kyler Murray have kind of

(57:34):
his act two Arizona days where actually this turns into
a three or four year really productive big number run?
I think he has that in him.

Speaker 2 (57:43):
Yeah, I think that's if we're talking about floors and ceilings,
I think that's Kyler's ceiling. And, you know, I just
I hope that he stays healthy because I would like
to see what he can do and how he's learned
to maybe mitigate some of that streakiness he's run into
that's not injury related. And what he can do when
he has a great supporting cast. And like I mentioned,
a higher floor. This is the one time a team

(58:05):
is like, we're redoing our run game where I actually
believe it.

Speaker 3 (58:09):
I truly do believe.

Speaker 2 (58:10):
That this, you know, including Kevin O'Connell, he said it
for like three years and then it never quite took off.
This is the year that I actually..

Speaker 1 (58:17):
It's going to be different even if it doesn't work.
Hopefully it works. A little landing up here. The James
Madison Dukes. I strongly considered going to James Madison at
one point because my main... criteria was a warm city
and that's not really a city there so that would
that that hurt but i just wanted somewhere warm mostly

(58:38):
was like the south i wasn't really thinking california but
i thought i thought hard on james madison.

Speaker 2 (58:42):
You could give me 60 guesses and i wouldn't be
able to guess where james madison is.

Speaker 1 (58:46):
I'm not even totally sure right now somewhere in virginia
though for sure you think that's warm oh it's i
mean compared to massachusetts pretty big difference yeah Where is it?
Now I'm really... It's sad that at one point I
obviously knew it well. The college. Big, big school. Harrisonburg. Harrisonburg, Virginia.

(59:07):
Of course it's warm. What are you talking about?

Speaker 3 (59:09):
It doesn't... I thought it snows in Virginia.

Speaker 1 (59:11):
I mean, it like you have, you have a winter
compared to certainly New Orleans or LA, the places I
ended up. Ceiling floor, but it's still warmer.

Speaker 2 (59:22):
Uh, this is, this is not a team that I
thought now I love their skill guys, but this was
not a team that I thought, oh yeah, it's a given.
I could totally see this team in the Superbowl. That
was the one, this was the one that was a
little sticky for me. Now I still, what's funny is
I still see their ceiling as in the mix too much.

Speaker 3 (59:41):
Be leaders in this, in this.

Speaker 1 (59:42):
I mean, that's, that's not getting on the, you know,
in the mix to be leaders. There's a lot of
qualifiers there.

Speaker 3 (59:48):
Well, that's, I love, I love those.

Speaker 1 (59:50):
Put a number on it.

Speaker 3 (59:51):
I love those.

Speaker 1 (59:51):
So you think they can win the division?

Speaker 2 (59:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (59:53):
Like that's their ceiling.

Speaker 3 (59:54):
I could see it.

Speaker 2 (59:55):
And if, again, if all the things we're talking about
go right, like I could see it because they'll be
able to do something different on offense than everybody else.

Speaker 1 (01:00:01):
Biggest variance team in this division to me could, I
think they could make the Superbowl. I mean, it would
be surprising, but I, I think their ceiling is quite high.
I think the offense could be dramatically improved. And then
if the defense is anywhere close, I do think the
defense at some point, like it's, it's a risky type

(01:00:22):
of defense. They could have a bad year. One of
these years, like we've seen it with these types of coaches.

Speaker 3 (01:00:26):
That I'll believe it when I see it.

Speaker 2 (01:00:28):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:00:29):
But if they had a bad year, then this team
could be seven and 10, you know, certainly, um, I
like the Vikings.

Speaker 3 (01:00:34):
It's kind of one of those things.

Speaker 2 (01:00:35):
If I'm willing to believe that they're going to fix
the run game after saying it so many years, I
am also willing to believe, and in probably more enthusiasm,
that Brian Flores is not going to have a bad year.

Speaker 1 (01:00:52):
Okay. I like that. And that probably would indicate you
don't have them in last place. So I mentioned the odds.
The odds are a little surprising. Just checked them. I
think they're quite schedule related, but the Lions are the
favorites in the division. The Packers are second. The Bears
are third. And they're kind of equally spaced out, not

(01:01:14):
that that close to each other. And the Vikings are
not a distant fourth, you know, better than most fourth
place teams. But there is a big gap, at least
in terms of the odds. I will have you go
first picking this order.

Speaker 3 (01:01:26):
One, two, three, four. I love picking so much.

Speaker 2 (01:01:30):
Yeah, this might surprise you actually, Greg, because I put
the Lions first.

Speaker 3 (01:01:34):
Okay. I put the Packers second.

Speaker 1 (01:01:35):
You said you were going to surprise me. I don't
know if the Lions surprised me. You're right. I guess
if I had to guess, I thought you were going
to go Packers.

Speaker 3 (01:01:42):
No, I put the Packers second. I put.

Speaker 2 (01:01:47):
The Bears third. And I put the Vikings fourth. Now,
that said... The first three teams I could see being
in the Super Bowl.

Speaker 1 (01:01:55):
I know. I like the Bears, and yet I feel
like I need to spice things up a little bit. Like,
I want to put the Vikings maybe in the playoffs
in some way. I don't feel good about any of
this in this division.

Speaker 2 (01:02:09):
No matter what we pick, we're going to be wrong
because it's that wild of a division.

Speaker 1 (01:02:13):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (01:02:15):
It's freedom.

Speaker 1 (01:02:15):
You don't know. That's true.

Speaker 3 (01:02:16):
Let go a little bit, you know?

Speaker 2 (01:02:17):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:02:17):
I'll go Lions, Vikings, Bears, Packers.

Speaker 4 (01:02:24):
Out of all the division previews, that's going to be
the graphic we put out.

Speaker 1 (01:02:27):
No, it's not.

Speaker 3 (01:02:28):
Please don't.

Speaker 2 (01:02:29):
Please don't because the Packers fans we know are extremely online.

Speaker 1 (01:02:33):
I like the Packers. I always pick the Packers to
do well. I can't even abide by that. I'm flipping
and I'm flipping the Packers at least putting the bears
in last either way.

Speaker 3 (01:02:41):
The Bears last?

Speaker 1 (01:02:42):
Well, someone's got to be last if I put the
Vikings second. Oh, I don't think the Bears are going
to be last. I've gotten very chocked with these predictions.
Ben Johnson's going to come for you.

Speaker 2 (01:02:49):
Think of the Ben Johnson stare and then see if
you want to reconsider.

Speaker 1 (01:02:54):
Well, I am really hoping I'm wrong, at least statistically,
because I went early with a Caleb Williams, Colston Loveland
stack on my fantasy team. So I will be watching
those Bears.

Speaker 2 (01:03:05):
See, this is what we call the Rosenthal hedge, where
he picks someone and someone's going to get mad, except
they can't really get mad because you guys were first
on my fantasy team.

Speaker 1 (01:03:15):
I will try to make that the last time I
talk about my fantasy team. It's come up three times today.
Nobody wants to hear about your fantasy team. And yet
we're going to be doing our fantasy preview later on
this week. Hit that music. Good show, Jordan.

Speaker 3 (01:03:29):
It's good to be back in the studio.

Speaker 1 (01:03:32):
Also in the studio. is where you will be conducting
a big-time interview. Quickly, tell them about it.

Speaker 2 (01:03:39):
Yeah, we've got Adam Barry, assistant GM of the Philadelphia Eagles,
coming up on Power Play.

Speaker 1 (01:03:43):
That is next. And then, yes, we're going to do
another fantasy football preview later in the week. See you then.