December 2, 2025 • 43 mins
Drake "Drake Maye" Maye authored another MVP-like performance in the Patriots 33-15 win over the New York Giants on the Week 13 edition of Monday Night Football. Jaxson Dart played like a battering ram, but it was no match for a Patriots team that looked poised to make a deep playoff run. In light of the New England victory, Gregg Rosenthal and Nick Shook recap the night's action and evaluate the real contenders in the AFC.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Tyl en Statt left Piland's vera as well.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Lender shit in the back.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
You had a thrown in the white and the loss
pay Sean Boone scumming it clash the shideline, but not
before he scores a touchdown.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
All pitch, you can start your pluses out.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
Let's see it though.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
That was Scott zolac colin game in the first quarter.
It was seventeen to nothing at that point, and there
was a little part of me rooting for the Giants
to come back in this game just so we could
laugh at that call. But they didn't really come back.
They lost thirty three to fifteen. That was also Bob
Soci on w b Z. I'm Greg Rosenthal. That's Nick Shook.
(00:44):
You are nice enough to join us after a blowout
on Monday Night Football Live on YouTube. We appreciate you all, Shook,
and we appreciate one of the biggest stories of this
NFL season. We enter this stretch run and yes, the
Patriots have now got to their bye week. Here at
(01:04):
eleven and two with Drake may as a real deal
MVP favorite.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
Not favorite, but candidate, definitely a candidate's gonna be competing
with that guy. Who's thirty seven years old with a
gray beard wearing number nine out in LA. But he's
a candidate for sure.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
It is so early. I want to just push back
without being annoying to every tweet that I see that's like,
Drake May's the MVP right now, he can win, he
should win, you like, or this is this is the MVP.
There's more than a quarter to go of the season.
That is so much season for the Patriots that you know,
there's only four games for the rest of the NFL,
(01:43):
we have five whole weeks. But Drake May is right there.
And I think tonight was a great example if you
haven't been watching him a lot this year of what
he looks like. What did you see out of the
second year quarterback tonight?
Speaker 3 (01:59):
I mean more of the same, but also the ability
to make some plays, you know, when he's got to
get mobile. He took off for some scrambles, which I
think was lacking in the last few weeks, and it's
a big part of his game. He is one of
the better running quarterbacks in the NFL. I think that
can actually be the key that unlocks their goal to
go struggles, which they were like fifty percent are around
there tonight. First time, you know, they run into a
frustrating set of difficulties that ends up in a field goal,
(02:21):
and then the second time they win the fade to
Kashan Boody. So it's like you see both sides of
the coin with their goal to go situation. But overall,
May again super accurate twenty four or thirty one. He
finishes on the night, nearly gets that three hundred yard game,
gets it pulled from him because his touchdown pass to
a wide open Hunter Henry gets called back by a penalty.
But I mean he's comfortable, he's poised no matter the stage.
(02:41):
He's now played a primetime game on Thursday, Sunday and Monday.
He's looked good in all three like he's just He
reminds me in a different way of what I thought
about Joe Burrow when I saw him in Week two
of his rookie season in Cleveland, and it was a
primetime game and the speed of the game never bothered
Joe Burrow. And May has looked like that basically his
entire career, especially this season, and this is a night
(03:02):
and when he played behind an offensive line that was
not at full strike, never bothered him. He's he's got
incredible composure and I think he's the perfect quarterback to
lead this turnaround and that's why they're eleven and two.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Yeah, I was worried about what the offensive line was
gonna look like tonight, but ultimately the Giants didn't have
a ton of pressure in this game. It was about
a twenty five percent pressure rate. You know, May stepped up.
I thot Troy Aikman first of all, really enjoyed being
on the Drake May call. Like it's like, you know,
young quarterback for Troy to just talk about and one
that plays the game that the way he likes it, Uh,
(03:34):
Drake May. You know, Troy made the point so often
steps up in the pocket to kind of help his
tackles out, and he took a couple of short sacks
to night, including Abdull Carter's first one of the season.
We'll we'll get to him in a second, but yeah,
it was the variety of the type of throws like
that is a great feathered touch pass to Kaishan Boody
(03:55):
in the end zone. You saw him getting through his
reads really quickly that first drive of the game, Like
he got to his third read on one of the
third downs. There so fast. It's the out routes. There
was one to do Mario Douglas. There was another to
Stefan Diggs for the most part right on point. And
then yes, you do have the deep ball as always,
(04:16):
Drake may hitting it long at least once in the game.
This one to Kyle william that's not.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Right to Drake.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Let's come in, bab lose up throws a lot line.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
There's separation there in the pastor one of these. It's
perfect touchdown patricks.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
He caught it.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
I'm worried you're not hit.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
I mean if you say this.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Is one of the little catch with the feet.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
He drugged us in a bucket.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
What a throw by Maybe they show flitz they filled
and then they hlee Flitzer cups and he stayed at
the pocket, stayed with it. Balls in. There's one and
he drugged hi tone there. That was such a great
throw and maybe even better catch by Kyle Williams, who
now has five career catches. One of them was that
(05:06):
great catch he made on the seventy two yarder against
the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, which is also a great throw.
And that's a thirty three yard touchdown, so very efficient,
and I think he was only in the game because
Kaishaun Boody appeared to get banged up just a little
bit on the play before, although he came back quickly. Yeah,
it's just it's a little bit of everything from this
young quarterback at one point in the game, and I
(05:28):
believe he finished there. He was five for five on
intermediate throws ten to nineteen yards and he would have
had another touchdown a thirty yarder to Hunter Henry, but
that was called back by an illegal formation in this game,
comparing him shook to Jackson Dart on the other side,
what did you see out of the Giants rookie quarterback.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
Well, first off, I'm so glad that Bob Sogi and
Scott Zolac gave Drake his flowers for that throw, because
on the Monday night football call, it's all about the catch,
which is a great catch. Don't get me wrong, but
that is a perfect pass. Have seen Drake do that
all season, no matter the opponent, no matter the situation,
he has consistently just dropped in the bucket at a
level that you typically don't see from a guy who's
in his second season in the NFL, which is why
(06:10):
he's having such a special year and why he's in
the MVP conversation. But when you compare him to Jackson
Dart first game back after you know, being out with
the concussion for a few weeks, I hate to say this,
but it's it's a great illustration of two quarterbacks who
understand how to play within the pro game and the
other one who can't break his bad habits or his
old style of play. Jackson Dart doesn't protect himself. Okay,
(06:32):
he comes back from a concussion and he puts himself
out in danger multiple times. He drifts around the pocket
trying to find an escape route or somebody open, and
sets himself up to get hit hard as he you know,
decides to slide and get down too late. He scrambles
for on a I think it was a third and thirteen.
He picks up twelve, or maybe he was second down.
He picks up twelve, but tight roping the sideline to
(06:53):
try to get that last yard sets him up to
get absolutely leveled by cade Nellis, which of course draws
the sideline fracas and then results in a penalty on
THEO Johnson for defending his quarterback like that is one
of the hardest hits you're going to see a quarterback
take on the sideline in the NFL, no matter the
team and everybody. Connor tweeted this and I thought it
was hilarious. Connor orr He said, all those people who
are upset about Patrick Mahomes being a sideline penalty merchant
(07:16):
a few years ago now feel vindicated because dark just
got leveled on that play. Get out of bounds, Jackson,
Get out of bounds. That extra yard is not worth
you sacrificing or at least risking your health when you've
already missed multiple games because of injury this season. I
understand you have a never say die attitude and it's
propelled you to this point in your career, but you're
the franchise quarterback. You've shown enough for the Giants to
believe in you. It is not worth three more feet
(07:39):
to get blasted, absolutely leveled by k Nelison as you're
seeing in this replay here, which then leads your tight end,
Theo Johnson, to get in Ellis's face and sparks a
little Donnybrook on the sideline. This is not worth it.
Think about the long game here, please.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
It always makes the hit look a little bigger when
the player just goes flying through the air. Man. I'm
trying to trying to think about that. There was a
hit on a running back this week and that was
just like that hit. And Christian Ellis of the Patriots,
who's been a special teamer, Cayden Ellis, of course, the great,
the great Atlanta Falcon, Christian Ellis, maybe favorite Philadelphia Eagle
(08:17):
of all time, was out there, you know, stealing souls tonight.
He also put Gunner el Sewski, the Giants punt returner,
out of the game, with an absolutely brutal helmet to
helmet hit which is legal and yet it feels like
it shouldn't be, which forced a fumble. And that was
part of just a disastrous night for the special teams
(08:39):
for the New York Giants. To close the point on
Jackson Dart and then I'll talk special teams. Dart talked
for two weeks, the Giants talked for three weeks after
that concussion. Yeah, that he's got to be more careful.
He's got to take care of himself. We might adjust
to play calling. You mentioned how he got you know,
hit a few times. It was twice in the first
(09:01):
six plays. The third play of the game was Harrol
Landry absolutely crushing him where the play was essentially over.
But Jackson Dart didn't go down in the way that
Drake may usually just kind of takes the sack in
the end, he does kind of give up on the play.
He just sort of is wandering forward, not knowing what
to do, and then ducks at the last second, and
(09:21):
so Landry gets like a big shot on him. And
that was three plays in. And then the shot you
just saw was another three or four plays in. And yes,
that was only ten plays or seven plays into the game,
and yet it was already ten to nothing because Marcus
Jones was doing Marcus Jones things. I think it's time
for Who Delivered, presented by Uber Eats. Let's listen to
(09:46):
the call of Marcus Jones, the all time leader in
NFL history in putt return average. You might say, oh,
he's a pretty young player. You know what you need
seventy five putt returns to qualify you know what punt
return This was in his NFL career, shookie seventy six,
(10:06):
seventy five.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Let's listen rugby player from invertice feels the snap left
foots to pump left to right toward Marcus Jones. He's
under between the hash marks at the sixth. He runs
it left to the fifteenth to the twenty. Accelebrates thirty
thirty five forty, beating Gilly off the hit along the
nurse side forty to the third Prcus Jones gone to
(10:28):
the twenty to the tend the house touchdown.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Patriots play with plots. You tell me they doesn't run
it for play of football.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
Let's say like the gun was on one tonight.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Yeah, the crowd was live. I do think for Patriots fans,
and I know they slash, we are a loathome bunch,
especially in that stadium. But tonight I think in me,
a primetime game at home against the Giants, like I
(11:05):
do think it was kind of like a hey, that
was that was a rough five years or whatever. It
was like the Patriots are back kind of night. And
the fact that it started that way with a guy,
by the way, drafted by Bill Belichick. It almost kicked
off kind of a night long celebration where it did
feel like the good old days.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
Yeah, and you know what, I'm gonna come to your
defense here because you're right. A lot of people hated
Patriots fans for a long time because that of jealousy.
I mean, the Patriots were what a dynasty. They were
one of the best teams in the NFL for twenty
years because of Tom Brady's career. They were always there.
They were the team that you couldn't put away, that
they were always gonna be in the conversation. They're always
(11:45):
gonna be a thorn in your side. And Patriots fans
acted as if, yeah, they were entitled, right, they because
they had Tom Brady quarterabight, they had Bill Belichick as
their head coach. They knew that they deserved, or they
believe that they deserved to always be in the conversation,
and oftentimes they were proven correct. But this team is different.
Not only did they just go through a rough four
or five years without Tom Brady, not only did they
(12:07):
watch him go down to Tampa and win one final
Super Bowl and then watch the the de evolution the
downfall of Bill Belichick's career with the Patriots, but they
also had to go through the abyss of the year
after Bill Belichick with Girod Mayo, who was chosen by
the franchise as the replacement. They're in a good place now.
They got their quarterback and they got a former Patriots
(12:29):
hero and Mike Vrabel who understands what it takes to
win with the Patriots, I for one am on board
with this. I don't know how far they're going to go,
but this is a likable team to me. And it's
all because of Mike Rabel because you see in that
play that we just highlighted there he's running down the
sideline with one hand in the air, one finger in
the air, kicking the pat just loving life. I'm sorry,
but as a football guy, that's a football guy right
(12:50):
there who's just loving where he is in life right now.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
Well, one of our commenters, I knew people listening on
Tuesday will be thinking the same thing or saying like, oh,
poor Patriots fans. It was like it was like four years,
you know, like Brady was still there through twenty nineteen,
they won the division. There, It's like, and now they
are set up because it's not gonna be this easy
every season, but they do have Drake May And when
(13:14):
Joe Buck was saying like, it's so easy to imagine
him being their quarterback for the next fifteen years. I
could be proven wrong, but I do think May's ascension
has been the single biggest story in the NFL this
year because I do think he's gonna be one of
those guys in the Borough type of tear. I just
don't see any reason that he wouldn't be, because the
(13:35):
mentality is there, the physical skills are there. The biggest
question that he had was probably accuracy, and right now
he's basically the most accurate quarterback in the league. Let's
fire through a few other things before we get to
some questions there. There was a question in the chat
that said, at what point does more than Drake May's
development matter for the Patriots. So that's a reference to
(13:57):
what I've been saying on this podcast since they drafted
him and so go into this year, the only thing
that matters is Drake May. And I still think that's true.
And that's why if they, you know, somehow crashed out,
didn't win another game the rest of the season, that
would be pretty brutal. If they go to and two
the rest of the season or even one in three
(14:17):
and crash out of the playoffs and Drake May actually
looks good during it, then that's all that to me.
That is all that matters long term. But I think
the question is alluding to, like, Okay, now that they've
gotten this far, the expectations change, and I think that's
absolutely fair. We're going to break down the AFC hierarchy
in just a couple of minutes, and I do put
(14:38):
the Patriots in with the teams that have a chance
to make the Super Bowl. So I think this is
that point. They're going to the bye week, they have
the Bills and the Ravens afterwards, and now it's a
test of like, Okay, there is an opportunity here that
might not be there every year. There's not superpowers in
(14:58):
this AFC. You have a chance to go do something special,
kind of like the last time people actually like the Patriots,
the oh one Patriots, a team that came out of nowhere,
And so I do think it's changed. I do want
to fire through just a couple other quick things in
this game before we move on to the AFC hierarchy.
That was who delivered by the way presented by Uber Eats.
(15:19):
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Order Now Marcus Jones to the Pro Bowl. He's been
a great slut corner this year. Okay, didn't have a
great night at cornerback tonight, I will admit, and maybe
hasn't played as good the last couple of weeks, but
has made a lot of plays this season and is
(15:39):
probably the All Pro returner. So I just why are
you making a face to him?
Speaker 3 (15:43):
No, No, I'm just saying because I think Tamiri DK makes
an argument for return for that spot in the provo.
But I agree that the total picture of Jones playing
corner too as well, like that also helps his case.
Because you're right, he hasn't been good in the last
few weeks or whatever been okay, but I think back
to when he picked off Josh Allen, Like he's made
some big plays, there was like a two week stretch
(16:04):
where he made the same interception basically twice. He's been
a very good player for them overall. So that's that's
the difference. And DK, you know, considering where he is,
a developing receiver with a bad Titans team, I think
that he should get some love to maybe we.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
Have five more weeks. Well, there's punt returner on All
Brothers punt returner and kick returner. They split it up,
so maybe don't they. Jones an incredible punt returner, but
for his size to play as well as he's played
at slot corner, he's just having a career year. A
great comment that I totally forgot about in the chat
that Mike Rabel interviewed for the Falcons job. Remember how
(16:38):
mad Bill Belichick and Michael Lombardi were that they did
not give him the Falcons job. That basically Belichick spent
a year on his media properties and especially Lombardi making
fun of the Falcons and having a vendetta against the
Falcons because they didn't hire him and they hired Raheem Morris.
How about the fact that Mike Rabel was trying to
get that job. Mike Rabel was trying to get any
(16:58):
job in that first coach cycle after he lost the
Titans job didn't happen for him, and uh didn't get
the Patriots job either, by the way, they passed on
him for Drought Mayo and uh it worked out. Sometimes
better to be lucky than good. You know who who
is not good? Tonight? Your your friend Katie calledwell your
co host on the Great Podcast The only f one
(17:23):
Slash NFL podcast grid Iron check it out, uh twitch stream,
I don't know it's what it is. She points out
that the Giants had the funniest kicking attempt that she's
ever seen. It was a brutal night for the Giants
special teams, but young waykup stubbing his toe on a kick.
I'm so funny to watch. It's crazy, it's sad.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
It's so bad, all right. So if you're watching on YouTube,
you can see it now that that coup approaches where
Gillan's holding the ball ready to be kicked, and I
believe his plant foot was too far ahead. I'm not
sure what happened, but as this so it comes down,
his tail goes directly into the Gillette Stadium turf and
he just stops in his tracks right there, because what
(18:07):
are you gonna do? Try and just like halfway kick it. No,
it's never gonna get there. But it's just an illustration
of hey, how hard it is to get a field goal,
and also like how treacherous the responsibility can be if
you don't get everything absolutely right, because then you're just
left there. Like in the playlog, it's Jamie Gillen sacked
for a loss of thirteen. The funniest line in a
(18:28):
play log you're gonna see all season, and it all
is because a kicker stuffed just tee.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
That is unreal watching it. I'm in my kitchen, my
brother Dean and his wife Karen are here, we're with
we're with my kids. So it's the first half with them.
And then came out to the garage that happened and
they were like, what happened? And then they show the replay.
They showed Jackson Dark making that comment. I think he said,
(18:54):
oh my god or something like that and rolling his eyes.
Everyone laughs. But my brother, who I think last watched
the football game when the Patriots beat the Falcons in
the Super Bowl. He's a musician, not really aware of
what's going on with American football. He's like, does that
happen often? And I and I said, I'm pretty sure
(19:16):
that's literally never happened in the professional football game. I
don't know if it's happened, and it's probably happened in
a high school game. I mean, I was like, there's
no way, young way, who has ever done that before. No,
I'm pretty sure that's never happened in a pro football game,
and I've never seen it happen in a college football game.
I mean dry conditions, Like.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
Yeah, college football games are a terrible place for kickers.
I mean there's a whole college kickers thing because they
just missed field goals and.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
That's never happened. But they never happened. We would know,
here's what would happen. We wouldn't know. No, I don't
think it happened.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
It would come to mind, It would definitely come to mind.
But it's also like, unfortunately, it just typifies young young
Way who's career because like he comes in with fan unfair,
he loses his job with the Chargers, he ends up
with the Falcons. He has a great bounce back year
for like.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
Three years, bro, he was like an all Pro kicker,
wasn't it?
Speaker 3 (20:09):
And then yeah, he was that one really good bounce
back year and then he was pretty consistent, and then
he was inconsistent to start the year and the Falcons
cut bait on him so quickly that that told you all,
they all that you need to know about how they
felt about him. And now he finds another opportunity with
the Giants, and this is what happens, Like it's this
one mistake does not define your career, but it certainly
(20:31):
does tell some of the story of what has been
a winding journey for him as a kicker.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
It was it was painful because all I thought, because
they've been looking for a kicker and been running through
different kickers waiting for Graham Gonoda come back, is that
I really hope that is not the last field goal
attempt of young wa.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
No, it can't be that.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
That would be brutal the guys you bounce around. I'm
sure you'd get another chance, but he also might get cut. Okay,
let's go rapid fire. A couple couple giants points here.
Number one Abdell Carter uh let go or got benched
for the first quarter of this game. And we have
a comment by the way, by the famous Will Gavin
of Talk Sport and Channel five over in the UK,
(21:11):
who has become an international sensation, saying, I wasn't working
on the game yet I'm still up at four am.
Why to watch Drake may electric? I mean, and now
you're up potentially till till four thirty in the morning
watching us. Thank you Will A man who will do
anything to get his name mentioned and get a little
(21:31):
d light. What a way to think. A great friend
and a great viewer.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
He's got a junciation of commanders ever, by the ways.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
The best pronounciation of everything. Abdul Carter got benched again
for the first quarter of this game because he didn't
show up to a team meeting apparently or some sort
of team responsibility. That's the second time in three games
with Mike Kafka. So that's what I'll remember the Mike
Kafka era for that in some gutlet fourth down decisions tonight,
yeah night where I'm thinking, like Kafka's got a I
(22:04):
was gonna have a big take, and I still have
it that I think Kafka has a better chance to
keep this job than most people think. But I think
you're gonna have to have some surprising cool wins or
moments in it. And to punt the ball on fourth
in less than a yard late in the first half,
and then you gave up a field goal to the
Patriots anyways, and then to punt the ball on fourth
(22:25):
and eight down two scores. The game was reasonably close
with like eight minutes to go, and you punted there,
and of course the Patriots get back to where they
punted the ball in about three plays because the Giants
defense stunk all night. The only reason the Patriots didn't
score more is they kept stubbing their toe and they
couldn't run in the short yard. It's just a little
little gut list.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
By Kafas stubbing their toe. You know, I'm going to
defend him for a second, because let's consider the situation here.
And I just looked up the next gen probability or
what the recommendation was, and the recommendation was go for it.
But it was only by like a small percentage. I
believe it was zero point five zero point five percent.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
You try to win a game here, you try if
you're trying to do something special, the only chance you
have is to do something special.
Speaker 3 (23:04):
Okay, But and you're right in order if he wants
to keep the job, because you don't win the job,
like Antonio Pierce once won the job with the Raiders,
unless you win games, and they have not done that
with Kafko, right, But also consider the situation. You are
deep in your own territory. You have not stopped anything
for most of the first half. The Patriots have all
the momentum in the world, and they are ready to
just finally knock you out for good. So if you
don't get it on fourth and one, which you've already
(23:26):
been stopped turnover on downs earlier in this game, then
at least you force them to go I don't know,
fifty sixty, maybe even seventy yards if the Scottish hammer
gets a good gets into it, which he kind of didn't.
But what you don't account for is that your defense
is going to give up like fifty five yards and
three plays.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
Well, you account for you if you've watched the game,
you know.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
I guess that's fair, but I understood it, and I said,
if they would have gone for it, there would have
been idiotic and desperate. But again, the Giants have two
wins on the year. They have to be desperate because
not being desperate is idiotic in itself.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Right. Okay, it's one yard though, and that's hard for them.
That's fair the thirty six yard line. My point is
it just was not surprising that the Patriots were on
the giants nineteen yard line four plays later, seven yards
to Mac Collins, fifteen to do Mario Douglas a short
(24:14):
past Madre Stevenson. This Giants defense is just poorly coached,
even without Shane Bowen. And then yeah, they kicked the
field goal. By the way the Patriots, I point. I
say this every week though Patriots receivers make tough catches.
Mac Collins made some tough catches tonight. I know Mark
Hunter Henry had a drop, which is rare for him.
But Stefan Diggs, you know, Kyle Williams tonight, certainly keseh
(24:38):
on booty. They might not beat you with beat you
with speed. Score they've got good hands, like I've seen
a lot of contested catches that has helped the completion percentage.
And then my final thing on this game is they
should not keep Joe Shane. That's all. Oh why why
did they move the goalposts? Before the season, they said,
you know, John mara is on on the record saying
(25:01):
that wins and losses are gonna you know, that's what
we need this year. We need to show progress. And
they asked, how like wins and losses that yes, we
need to see it in the standings. And somehow they've
moved the goalposts. They've won two games, and I don't
think Joe Shane's done a good job start.
Speaker 3 (25:14):
Over, Yeah, what they did was they scapegoated Brian Dable,
arguably too soon, because I think he finally got the
quarterback that he could work with, and we saw signs
of potential with their pairing. And then they just said,
we need to make a change somewhere, so we're going
to fire our coach, but we're gonna stick with our
GM because we like what he's done with our roster
over the last couple of years. And I pushed back
against that because Abdil Carter is a great example of
(25:35):
how far they still have to go as an organization.
This was the can't miss guy in the draft. Everybody
went into the draft thinking he's the best player in
the draft. The Giants get him in the top five
and everything's dandy, and they trade back in for Jackson
Dark That's great. What has he done this year? Not much?
Lack of professionalism at least according to reports, him getting
benched in the first quarter two of the last three weeks.
That's not good, which means did you vet him or
(25:58):
did you just go with well, he's the best player
on the board that falls on the GM, not just
on the coach. That falls on the GM as well.
There's a lack of professionalism and accountability and preparation with
this team right now, and it starts from the top down.
So I totally agree. If you're going to fire the
coach and blame him for everything, the GM that hired
him and the GM that he was supposed to work
with to turn this team around should also be held accountable.
And I felt like it was it was a half
(26:19):
measure if you're really going to try to put the
Giants back on track toward being a winning football team.
I hate to restart because I think continuity matters, but
you're not keeping any continuity by keeping your GM there.
You're just perpetuating a list of a routine, a habit
of making poor decisions with your team. Further, with the
belief that somehow it's going to change with the new coach.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
I love that, and I do allow for the possibility
that John Mara will change his mind. He has before
when talking about different YEA coaching decisions over the years,
so it could still happen. Carter reportedly was a guy
that was maybe doing this during the Dable tenure, and
(27:00):
that was part of some of the whispers that you
see from the reporters that cover the team that it
was very permissive atmosphere with Dable there and getting him
out the door. Now they're trying to like get Carter
into better habits. But I'm just I'm just making.
Speaker 3 (27:18):
That's unfair because you're talking about you, I know, and
I get that, But you moved the goalpost with Joe Shane. Well,
you're also kind of moving the goalpost with Dable because
think about the position he's in. He's coaching for his
job and in order to increase his chances of winning
games to keep his job, he puts his best players
on the field. Carter is supposed to be one of
his better players on the team. You got to keep
him out there. I don't like the idea of it
being permissive either, because you got to establish some culture
(27:40):
and sense of accountability. But I think he was in
a tough spot regardless. Pinning that on him alone is
not fair.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
Yeah, And Carter, to be fair, came in and I
think he got three pressures in this first series. Yeah,
Like he came in and he was like he had
his hair on fire. He got his sack, which was
really more Drake May sliding at the line of scrimmage.
But Carter got it, but he got a couple other
quick pressures in there, so I thought he played a
pretty good game. And I will say when Jackson Dart
(28:07):
was running back and forth, back and forth during that
two point try that he eventually hit, it reminded me
of a play in Drake May's rookie year a rare victory.
Was it his only victory where he hit his receiver
against the Tennessee Titans on an incredible two point attempt
(28:28):
where he is running back and forth and back and forth.
It was just a guy showing that he's an athlete,
and that was like the first, Okay, Drake May like
big time moment, and so maybe we'll think back on
how this season ended. I don't think Jackson Dart has
nearly the ceiling as Drake May, because you saw it tonight,
you've seen it so far. He's just not that successful
right now as a dropback passer, as a traditional just
(28:50):
like you know, forget the RPOs for you.
Speaker 3 (28:53):
Yeah, that works for bon Nicks, at least it does
for the most part.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
That's why That's why I'm saying the ceiling is not
as high as May, who I think always had every
tool that you wanted, and I think Jackson Dart might
not have that, or it's gonna take a little while. Yeah,
but I do think Jackson dart ceiling is pretty high,
and I think he's looking pretty good as a way.
(29:19):
All right, let's let's move on to this hierarchy, so
quick assignment. We're gonna we're gonna fire through this quickly.
We finished thirteen weeks. The final four teams that have
a bye are going to have it in week fourteen.
That's the Giants and the Patriots and the Panthers and
the forty nine. So you know we're we're at a
(29:40):
nice little point in the season here. I wanted you
after this game, because the Patriots are the number one
seed in the AFC, to break down your AFC hierarchy.
And I wanted you to do it not by power ranking,
just purely who do you think has like the best
chances they're a real chance to make the super And
(30:00):
how we're going to do this. We're going to go
one at a time. It's too hard to go back
and forth. I want you to give me your entire
hierarchy right off the bat top to bottom. We're not
counting teams that aren't going to make the playoffs. It's
an only team that you can imagine are have a
real chance to make the Super Bowl. You give me
your hierarchy right off the bat, and then we'll talk
about that, and then I'll go next.
Speaker 3 (30:22):
Do you want to do this by tiers?
Speaker 2 (30:24):
Yeah? Me give me your different tiers. Start at the top.
Speaker 3 (30:27):
Okay, Tier one, call me crazy because they're not currently
in the playoff picture, but the Kansas City Chiefs are
in there. This is in no particular order, but within
the tiers, Kansas City Chiefs are in there. I'm going
to say that the Denver Broncos are also in there
because that defense is going to travel well. I'm skeptical
of them, but I'm still going to put them in
there because they've looked a lot better in the last
few weeks of the Buffalo Bills. Okay, and last but
(30:49):
not least, the Indiapolis Cults. That's Tier one. Tier two
will go New England Patriots, and then we'll go Houston Texans.
And that's probably it for that one, because then I
have questions about the remaining teams, which, without keeping track
(31:11):
of this, will go.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
It would be Jaguars Chargers. Have you said the Ravens.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
Yet that's gonna be the Jaguars, the Chargers and the Ravens.
Did I just say the Ravens already. I don't think
I did, because I have questions about all of them.
The Ravens being Lamar Jackson just doesn't look like himself,
the Chargers offensive line, and the Jaguars they're very up
and down, and Trevor Lawrence, let's let's break.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
This down here. Let's break this down. So you have
the Chiefs, the Broncos, the Bills, and the Colts in
the top tier. And you have those four teams a
tier ahead of the Patriots. Now, the Colts ahead of
the Patriots, the Broncos ahead of the Patriots. I've been
(31:55):
kind of banging the drum that I think this Patriots
team has some real shortcomings. But I'm cure for why
you think they are a whole tier below a team
led by a broken legged Daniel Jones and Bonix.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
It's not because of Mike Vrabel. It's because of the
trench play. Losing Milton Williams is a big absence, and
I think it was pretty apparent early in this game
against the Giants, and could.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
Get him back, could get both him and Will Campbell
back for the playoffs.
Speaker 3 (32:22):
I think, yes, could could, but it's a big could,
and I think that that's going to be their biggest limitation.
It's that And I hate to say this too because
the Colts don't really boast this either, but it's a
lack of experience.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
Now.
Speaker 3 (32:31):
I love Drake May and I don't think that he's
the problem when it comes to a lack of experience,
but there have been so many new additions to this team.
They spent so much money in free agency. They're relying
on a mixed cast where I like Stefan Diggs is
one of your most senior members on the offensive side,
and he's had a great year. But if I have
to like put a lot of trust in them, I
think that while I could see them in the super Bowl,
I could see them much more being a divisional round
(32:53):
loss candidate with a really high upside going into twenty
twenty six.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
But you can see in your minds, I myself, let's
do it yourself in a trailer outside of Levi Stadium
like we were last year doing a podcast and shook
taking up like half the trailer and we're talking about
that big fourth quarter drive good or bad. We won't.
(33:19):
We won't decide who wins a game by bow Knicks
in that Super Bowl. You can imagine that, or Daniel Jones,
you can imagine that, But you can't imagine the Drake
may One.
Speaker 3 (33:28):
No, I can't imagine the big, the big fourth quarter
drive by bow Nicks. I can imagine the big fourth
quarter stand by the Broncos defense, and I can imagine
the big fourth quarter march by the Colts riding Jonathan
Taylor in that offensive line to a victory and putting
a game away that way. I'm not putting it on
the quarterbacks. I know quarterbacks the most important position in
the NFL, but I think about the completeness of these
other teams, and Denver's defense is I think, still better
(33:51):
than we even give them credit for, and could win
any game at any time. It's gonna be close, like,
it's never gonna be a blowt It's always gonna be
kind of sloppy. It's gonna be very much playing with
your food with the Broncos. But the defense, I'm telling you,
I know it's old school, but they win champions. We
saw it with Eagles last year and the Colts are
a more complete team in that I trust lou Anarrimo
to get the most out of his defense. I would
like to Forrest Buckner to be involved, and I believe
(34:13):
that riding Jonathan Taylor could be a key to success
for them against a team that maybe doesn't have a
great run defense, and they get to the super Bowl.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
Okay, I think a lot of the commenters are wondering, like,
why are the Chiefs in that first tier? But I'm
going to go through mine now. Now I disagree with
you about the Colts. I don't disagree about the Chiefs
being in the first tier because I just think they
have a chance, Like we're talking about chances to go
(34:40):
to the super Bowl in this scenario, obviously they got
to make the playoffs. It's a little lower than some
of the other teams because we know that the Patriots
and the Broncos are going to the playoffs, for instance,
and yet, like I do think I can see that route.
But the reality is this is the most open AFC
maybe open conference that we've seen in a long time,
(35:01):
and so I have a monstrous first tier. I think
that's the way I settle it. In no particular order,
I have the Broncos as well. I have the Patriots.
If you can get I put those two in, even
though I feel less confident in those two teams because
I think they have a really good chance of either
being the one seed or the one in the two seeds.
(35:23):
That is a real advantage, especially being the one seed
getting to the divisional round. It all depends on matchups.
I don't think any of these teams are great, and
so I do think in the right day, the right matchup,
those two teams could win a couple games. I do
have the Chiefs and the Bills, the coaching, the quarterbacks.
It's obvious they're not playing their best. I just don't
(35:44):
think people remember at this time of year just how
freaking long these NFL seasons are. There will be a
team that starts playing its best football in week seventeen, yeah,
or eighteen or you know what. They stink going into
the playoffs, and then they start play really well. I'll
like the Bengals a few years back, like they just
(36:05):
have the components, and I know there's some real structural
problems with these teams, but it's such a weak AFC that,
like I can see it happening So I put those
four teams on the same level with the Ravens because
I still think this defense is playing well right now
and you just can't tell me that a defense and
(36:25):
Lamar Jackson couldn't somehow find a way to figure it out.
And so that's five teams right there, and I wrote
down two more. I actually thought at first, and now
that I'm talking it through, I don't think I can
do it that I'd put the Chargers and the Texans
in there too, because I really just think, here's why
it shook. It's not a good it's not a good AFC. Like,
(36:50):
could the Texans defense be the best thing in the
playoffs and you have a really great young quarterback who
plays his best and beats a bad field, could justin
Herbert go total god mode with a ton of skill
position talent and a pretty well coached complete defense. Hell,
I'm putting those two in the first tier. It's a
(37:10):
seventeen tier.
Speaker 3 (37:12):
That Sea you just ruined the entire exercise because you
just know that's.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
What exercise for me. That's the point in the exercise.
Speaker 3 (37:18):
Peries, you just ruined it. I appreciate your optimism because
we did this exercise. What was it six eight weeks
ago where we're like, how many teams could we see
making the Super Bowl? We put half the freaking league
in there. So I know you're an optimist when it
comes to these things, but if we're gonna tear them,
you gotta have shortcomings with some. And I appreciate the
wide open af seed put this segment.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
This is a year the Arizona Cardinals in two thousand
and nine. Was it lost Week sixteen and seventeen by
a combined thirty like sixty points, and then they were
one drive away from winning the Super Bowl? Like the
Green Bay Packers were a six or a seven seed
(38:00):
and they went and won the Super Bowl. We like
the Steelers made it as as a low. This is
a this is a year. I just don't I just
think anyone's got a chance. And I just don't think
in reality there's that big a difference between this Patriots
team and the Chargers, or this Broncos team and the Ravens,
(38:22):
or a Bills team that's not great, And like the
Chiefs are the Texans, I just don't we keep seeing it.
We'll see it against Satday Night Texans. Chiefs. They're all
around the same, they got a chance.
Speaker 3 (38:36):
You got to win with the Texans performance against the
Chargers in the playoffs las year, because pretty much everybody
thought the Chargers were going to run away with that one,
and they did. The Texans defense dominated them.
Speaker 2 (38:44):
That was actually, but those two teams had no chance
to win the Super Bowl or make the Super Bowl
this year. Don't you feel different? I don't know.
Speaker 3 (38:50):
I mean, because it's wide open, that does make sense.
But at the same time, if it's a confidence thing,
like who is the most complete team, and there is
no perfectly complete team, I just see like the Chargers
on a weekly basis still don't protect Justin Herbert and
I know we have all the faith in the world.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
That's the reason against them.
Speaker 3 (39:08):
But everyone the Texans and they get shredded again by
that defense, like and boom, you're sure, which is why
you don't belong in Tier one. If I can identify
one matchup where I can see you just getting dominated,
you don't belong in Tier one.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
But see everyone's got that matchup. I think that's a
great point. Shook and the weirdly like the Chiefs are
a team that are pretty balanced, like I think the
you know, the Bills give them problems in the regular season,
but I do think, like matchup wise, a team that
could really run the ball on them would be dangerous.
(39:42):
But then you you like look at the group, at
the teams that are making the playoffs and the AFC,
and it's like, who is that really the Chiefs, that's
I mean, the Bills, maybe the Colts, But the Colts.
You can't tell me their offensive line is so great
when I've seen their intier line totally cave in on
Daniel Jones two games in a row. They're not pass
protecting well in the defense's block, and so like, do
(40:04):
they get a matchup where they can hide those I
just I do think it's just gonna be a year
where it all depends on the matchups and there's gonna
be kryptonite for different teams and we won't know totally
till we get there. But like the Broncos aren't some
perfect team. They almost forget the lost of the Commanders
(40:24):
last night.
Speaker 3 (40:25):
Yeah no, And that's the problem is that we have
no idea who these teams are week to week. Like
It's made picking games nearly impossible this season because you know,
on the NFC side, Bryce Young looks terrible one week,
looks great the next, and that's totally true for all
of these AFC teams. There's nobody who is consistently effective
enough from week to week. They've lost certain matchups, and
it makes it all very unpredictable, which is why it
(40:45):
builds the intrigue of the NFL, which is why it's
the best most popular sport in America and why everybody's
gonna tune it.
Speaker 2 (40:51):
Dean in the chat says, y'all why wilding out with
this AFC high Thank you, Dean. I thought shuk was
out there for having the path in Tier two, and
now sixty percent g half the conference in the top tier. Hey, guys,
life is unpredictable. Sports are unpredictable. Okay, this NFL season
has showed us that actually it wouldn't be that big
(41:14):
of a shock for any of these teams. I like,
give them all about a fifteen percent chance, and there's
home field doesn't really matter. The pedigree matters. But that's
why I'm bumping up the Ravens and Chiefs and Bills
into the top tier because they haven't really earned it otherwise.
By the way, I do have a Tier two and
that's that's the other. Initially I had the AFC South teams,
(41:37):
all three of them in there, but now I've bumped
the Texans up. My Tier two is the Jags and
the Colts.
Speaker 3 (41:44):
Yeah, and I was gonna say, I can't.
Speaker 2 (41:45):
See them going through three weeks, and then the Steelers.
You're not even on my list. I don't care that
you're six and six.
Speaker 3 (41:52):
No, just no, they're not in the conversation. They're not
in the conversation. But basically, what you're telling me is
that I should just prepare for we're gonna I'm gonna
we're gonna fly out to Santa Clair in February, and
I'm gonna meet you there and we're gonna be on
set and we're gonna be breaking down Jags Bears.
Speaker 2 (42:06):
Well, no, see the Jags. The only way that I
can be proven wrong is if the Jags or the
Colts make the Super Bowl. I do think the fact
that Daniel Jones cannot move side to side very well,
and that their defense is just like, I mean, there's
a lot of med defenses here. The Patriots are one
(42:26):
of them. But Daniel Jones not moving side to side.
Plus meh, I don't like their chances, so I'm putting
the Jags and the Colts in a tier below. So
the only way I can be wrong is if one
of the two of them make it, or the Steelers. Otherwise,
you know.
Speaker 3 (42:39):
Your grease and the skids. You know, it's fine, It's fine,
it's fine.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
Hopefully this show has been more than fine. Thank you
to everyone who has been tuning in. We love you all,
especially Will Gavin, who's still in the chat making it happen.
I'm gonna be back in the studio. Hit the music,
Crispabon and a great job, by the way, every Monday Night.
Next Monday Night, by the way, really good game Chargers stealer,
(43:10):
I mean sorry, Chargers Eagles in a game that Eagles
are really gonna want in a big test for that
Chargers offensive line. Tuesday on the show myself, Colleen Wolf,
I can't freaking wake. We will see you that
Tyl en Statt left Piland's vera as well.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Lender shit in the back.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
You had a thrown in the white and the loss
pay Sean Boone scumming it clash the shideline, but not
before he scores a touchdown.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
All pitch, you can start your pluses out.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
Let's see it though.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
That was Scott zolac colin game in the first quarter.
It was seventeen to nothing at that point, and there
was a little part of me rooting for the Giants
to come back in this game just so we could
laugh at that call. But they didn't really come back.
They lost thirty three to fifteen. That was also Bob
Soci on w b Z. I'm Greg Rosenthal. That's Nick Shook.
(00:44):
You are nice enough to join us after a blowout
on Monday Night Football Live on YouTube. We appreciate you all, Shook,
and we appreciate one of the biggest stories of this
NFL season. We enter this stretch run and yes, the
Patriots have now got to their bye week. Here at
(01:04):
eleven and two with Drake may as a real deal
MVP favorite.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
Not favorite, but candidate, definitely a candidate's gonna be competing
with that guy. Who's thirty seven years old with a
gray beard wearing number nine out in LA. But he's
a candidate for sure.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
It is so early. I want to just push back
without being annoying to every tweet that I see that's like,
Drake May's the MVP right now, he can win, he
should win, you like, or this is this is the MVP.
There's more than a quarter to go of the season.
That is so much season for the Patriots that you know,
there's only four games for the rest of the NFL,
(01:43):
we have five whole weeks. But Drake May is right there.
And I think tonight was a great example if you
haven't been watching him a lot this year of what
he looks like. What did you see out of the
second year quarterback tonight?
Speaker 3 (01:59):
I mean more of the same, but also the ability
to make some plays, you know, when he's got to
get mobile. He took off for some scrambles, which I
think was lacking in the last few weeks, and it's
a big part of his game. He is one of
the better running quarterbacks in the NFL. I think that
can actually be the key that unlocks their goal to
go struggles, which they were like fifty percent are around
there tonight. First time, you know, they run into a
frustrating set of difficulties that ends up in a field goal,
(02:21):
and then the second time they win the fade to
Kashan Boody. So it's like you see both sides of
the coin with their goal to go situation. But overall,
May again super accurate twenty four or thirty one. He
finishes on the night, nearly gets that three hundred yard game,
gets it pulled from him because his touchdown pass to
a wide open Hunter Henry gets called back by a penalty.
But I mean he's comfortable, he's poised no matter the stage.
(02:41):
He's now played a primetime game on Thursday, Sunday and Monday.
He's looked good in all three like he's just He
reminds me in a different way of what I thought
about Joe Burrow when I saw him in Week two
of his rookie season in Cleveland, and it was a
primetime game and the speed of the game never bothered
Joe Burrow. And May has looked like that basically his
entire career, especially this season, and this is a night
(03:02):
and when he played behind an offensive line that was
not at full strike, never bothered him. He's he's got
incredible composure and I think he's the perfect quarterback to
lead this turnaround and that's why they're eleven and two.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Yeah, I was worried about what the offensive line was
gonna look like tonight, but ultimately the Giants didn't have
a ton of pressure in this game. It was about
a twenty five percent pressure rate. You know, May stepped up.
I thot Troy Aikman first of all, really enjoyed being
on the Drake May call. Like it's like, you know,
young quarterback for Troy to just talk about and one
that plays the game that the way he likes it, Uh,
(03:34):
Drake May. You know, Troy made the point so often
steps up in the pocket to kind of help his
tackles out, and he took a couple of short sacks
to night, including Abdull Carter's first one of the season.
We'll we'll get to him in a second, but yeah,
it was the variety of the type of throws like
that is a great feathered touch pass to Kaishan Boody
(03:55):
in the end zone. You saw him getting through his
reads really quickly that first drive of the game, Like
he got to his third read on one of the
third downs. There so fast. It's the out routes. There
was one to do Mario Douglas. There was another to
Stefan Diggs for the most part right on point. And
then yes, you do have the deep ball as always,
(04:16):
Drake may hitting it long at least once in the game.
This one to Kyle william that's not.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Right to Drake.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Let's come in, bab lose up throws a lot line.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
There's separation there in the pastor one of these. It's
perfect touchdown patricks.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
He caught it.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
I'm worried you're not hit.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
I mean if you say this.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Is one of the little catch with the feet.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
He drugged us in a bucket.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
What a throw by Maybe they show flitz they filled
and then they hlee Flitzer cups and he stayed at
the pocket, stayed with it. Balls in. There's one and
he drugged hi tone there. That was such a great
throw and maybe even better catch by Kyle Williams, who
now has five career catches. One of them was that
(05:06):
great catch he made on the seventy two yarder against
the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, which is also a great throw.
And that's a thirty three yard touchdown, so very efficient,
and I think he was only in the game because
Kaishaun Boody appeared to get banged up just a little
bit on the play before, although he came back quickly. Yeah,
it's just it's a little bit of everything from this
young quarterback at one point in the game, and I
(05:28):
believe he finished there. He was five for five on
intermediate throws ten to nineteen yards and he would have
had another touchdown a thirty yarder to Hunter Henry, but
that was called back by an illegal formation in this game,
comparing him shook to Jackson Dart on the other side,
what did you see out of the Giants rookie quarterback.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
Well, first off, I'm so glad that Bob Sogi and
Scott Zolac gave Drake his flowers for that throw, because
on the Monday night football call, it's all about the catch,
which is a great catch. Don't get me wrong, but
that is a perfect pass. Have seen Drake do that
all season, no matter the opponent, no matter the situation,
he has consistently just dropped in the bucket at a
level that you typically don't see from a guy who's
in his second season in the NFL, which is why
(06:10):
he's having such a special year and why he's in
the MVP conversation. But when you compare him to Jackson
Dart first game back after you know, being out with
the concussion for a few weeks, I hate to say this,
but it's it's a great illustration of two quarterbacks who
understand how to play within the pro game and the
other one who can't break his bad habits or his
old style of play. Jackson Dart doesn't protect himself. Okay,
(06:32):
he comes back from a concussion and he puts himself
out in danger multiple times. He drifts around the pocket
trying to find an escape route or somebody open, and
sets himself up to get hit hard as he you know,
decides to slide and get down too late. He scrambles
for on a I think it was a third and thirteen.
He picks up twelve, or maybe he was second down.
He picks up twelve, but tight roping the sideline to
(06:53):
try to get that last yard sets him up to
get absolutely leveled by cade Nellis, which of course draws
the sideline fracas and then results in a penalty on
THEO Johnson for defending his quarterback like that is one
of the hardest hits you're going to see a quarterback
take on the sideline in the NFL, no matter the
team and everybody. Connor tweeted this and I thought it
was hilarious. Connor orr He said, all those people who
are upset about Patrick Mahomes being a sideline penalty merchant
(07:16):
a few years ago now feel vindicated because dark just
got leveled on that play. Get out of bounds, Jackson,
Get out of bounds. That extra yard is not worth
you sacrificing or at least risking your health when you've
already missed multiple games because of injury this season. I
understand you have a never say die attitude and it's
propelled you to this point in your career, but you're
the franchise quarterback. You've shown enough for the Giants to
believe in you. It is not worth three more feet
(07:39):
to get blasted, absolutely leveled by k Nelison as you're
seeing in this replay here, which then leads your tight end,
Theo Johnson, to get in Ellis's face and sparks a
little Donnybrook on the sideline. This is not worth it.
Think about the long game here, please.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
It always makes the hit look a little bigger when
the player just goes flying through the air. Man. I'm
trying to trying to think about that. There was a
hit on a running back this week and that was
just like that hit. And Christian Ellis of the Patriots,
who's been a special teamer, Cayden Ellis, of course, the great,
the great Atlanta Falcon, Christian Ellis, maybe favorite Philadelphia Eagle
(08:17):
of all time, was out there, you know, stealing souls tonight.
He also put Gunner el Sewski, the Giants punt returner,
out of the game, with an absolutely brutal helmet to
helmet hit which is legal and yet it feels like
it shouldn't be, which forced a fumble. And that was
part of just a disastrous night for the special teams
(08:39):
for the New York Giants. To close the point on
Jackson Dart and then I'll talk special teams. Dart talked
for two weeks, the Giants talked for three weeks after
that concussion. Yeah, that he's got to be more careful.
He's got to take care of himself. We might adjust
to play calling. You mentioned how he got you know,
hit a few times. It was twice in the first
(09:01):
six plays. The third play of the game was Harrol
Landry absolutely crushing him where the play was essentially over.
But Jackson Dart didn't go down in the way that
Drake may usually just kind of takes the sack in
the end, he does kind of give up on the play.
He just sort of is wandering forward, not knowing what
to do, and then ducks at the last second, and
(09:21):
so Landry gets like a big shot on him. And
that was three plays in. And then the shot you
just saw was another three or four plays in. And yes,
that was only ten plays or seven plays into the game,
and yet it was already ten to nothing because Marcus
Jones was doing Marcus Jones things. I think it's time
for Who Delivered, presented by Uber Eats. Let's listen to
(09:46):
the call of Marcus Jones, the all time leader in
NFL history in putt return average. You might say, oh,
he's a pretty young player. You know what you need
seventy five putt returns to qualify you know what punt
return This was in his NFL career, shookie seventy six,
(10:06):
seventy five.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Let's listen rugby player from invertice feels the snap left
foots to pump left to right toward Marcus Jones. He's
under between the hash marks at the sixth. He runs
it left to the fifteenth to the twenty. Accelebrates thirty
thirty five forty, beating Gilly off the hit along the
nurse side forty to the third Prcus Jones gone to
(10:28):
the twenty to the tend the house touchdown.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Patriots play with plots. You tell me they doesn't run
it for play of football.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
Let's say like the gun was on one tonight.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Yeah, the crowd was live. I do think for Patriots fans,
and I know they slash, we are a loathome bunch,
especially in that stadium. But tonight I think in me,
a primetime game at home against the Giants, like I
(11:05):
do think it was kind of like a hey, that
was that was a rough five years or whatever. It
was like the Patriots are back kind of night. And
the fact that it started that way with a guy,
by the way, drafted by Bill Belichick. It almost kicked
off kind of a night long celebration where it did
feel like the good old days.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
Yeah, and you know what, I'm gonna come to your
defense here because you're right. A lot of people hated
Patriots fans for a long time because that of jealousy.
I mean, the Patriots were what a dynasty. They were
one of the best teams in the NFL for twenty
years because of Tom Brady's career. They were always there.
They were the team that you couldn't put away, that
they were always gonna be in the conversation. They're always
(11:45):
gonna be a thorn in your side. And Patriots fans
acted as if, yeah, they were entitled, right, they because
they had Tom Brady quarterabight, they had Bill Belichick as
their head coach. They knew that they deserved, or they
believe that they deserved to always be in the conversation,
and oftentimes they were proven correct. But this team is different.
Not only did they just go through a rough four
or five years without Tom Brady, not only did they
(12:07):
watch him go down to Tampa and win one final
Super Bowl and then watch the the de evolution the
downfall of Bill Belichick's career with the Patriots, but they
also had to go through the abyss of the year
after Bill Belichick with Girod Mayo, who was chosen by
the franchise as the replacement. They're in a good place now.
They got their quarterback and they got a former Patriots
(12:29):
hero and Mike Vrabel who understands what it takes to
win with the Patriots, I for one am on board
with this. I don't know how far they're going to go,
but this is a likable team to me. And it's
all because of Mike Rabel because you see in that
play that we just highlighted there he's running down the
sideline with one hand in the air, one finger in
the air, kicking the pat just loving life. I'm sorry,
but as a football guy, that's a football guy right
(12:50):
there who's just loving where he is in life right now.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
Well, one of our commenters, I knew people listening on
Tuesday will be thinking the same thing or saying like, oh,
poor Patriots fans. It was like it was like four years,
you know, like Brady was still there through twenty nineteen,
they won the division. There, It's like, and now they
are set up because it's not gonna be this easy
every season, but they do have Drake May And when
(13:14):
Joe Buck was saying like, it's so easy to imagine
him being their quarterback for the next fifteen years. I
could be proven wrong, but I do think May's ascension
has been the single biggest story in the NFL this
year because I do think he's gonna be one of
those guys in the Borough type of tear. I just
don't see any reason that he wouldn't be, because the
(13:35):
mentality is there, the physical skills are there. The biggest
question that he had was probably accuracy, and right now
he's basically the most accurate quarterback in the league. Let's
fire through a few other things before we get to
some questions there. There was a question in the chat
that said, at what point does more than Drake May's
development matter for the Patriots. So that's a reference to
(13:57):
what I've been saying on this podcast since they drafted
him and so go into this year, the only thing
that matters is Drake May. And I still think that's true.
And that's why if they, you know, somehow crashed out,
didn't win another game the rest of the season, that
would be pretty brutal. If they go to and two
the rest of the season or even one in three
(14:17):
and crash out of the playoffs and Drake May actually
looks good during it, then that's all that to me.
That is all that matters long term. But I think
the question is alluding to, like, Okay, now that they've
gotten this far, the expectations change, and I think that's
absolutely fair. We're going to break down the AFC hierarchy
in just a couple of minutes, and I do put
(14:38):
the Patriots in with the teams that have a chance
to make the Super Bowl. So I think this is
that point. They're going to the bye week, they have
the Bills and the Ravens afterwards, and now it's a
test of like, Okay, there is an opportunity here that
might not be there every year. There's not superpowers in
(14:58):
this AFC. You have a chance to go do something special,
kind of like the last time people actually like the Patriots,
the oh one Patriots, a team that came out of nowhere,
And so I do think it's changed. I do want
to fire through just a couple other quick things in
this game before we move on to the AFC hierarchy.
That was who delivered by the way presented by Uber Eats.
(15:19):
When football makes you hungry, get game day deals on
Uber eats, the official on demand delivery partner of the NFL.
Order Now Marcus Jones to the Pro Bowl. He's been
a great slut corner this year. Okay, didn't have a
great night at cornerback tonight, I will admit, and maybe
hasn't played as good the last couple of weeks, but
has made a lot of plays this season and is
(15:39):
probably the All Pro returner. So I just why are
you making a face to him?
Speaker 3 (15:43):
No, No, I'm just saying because I think Tamiri DK makes
an argument for return for that spot in the provo.
But I agree that the total picture of Jones playing
corner too as well, like that also helps his case.
Because you're right, he hasn't been good in the last
few weeks or whatever been okay, but I think back
to when he picked off Josh Allen, Like he's made
some big plays, there was like a two week stretch
(16:04):
where he made the same interception basically twice. He's been
a very good player for them overall. So that's that's
the difference. And DK, you know, considering where he is,
a developing receiver with a bad Titans team, I think
that he should get some love to maybe we.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
Have five more weeks. Well, there's punt returner on All
Brothers punt returner and kick returner. They split it up,
so maybe don't they. Jones an incredible punt returner, but
for his size to play as well as he's played
at slot corner, he's just having a career year. A
great comment that I totally forgot about in the chat
that Mike Rabel interviewed for the Falcons job. Remember how
(16:38):
mad Bill Belichick and Michael Lombardi were that they did
not give him the Falcons job. That basically Belichick spent
a year on his media properties and especially Lombardi making
fun of the Falcons and having a vendetta against the
Falcons because they didn't hire him and they hired Raheem Morris.
How about the fact that Mike Rabel was trying to
get that job. Mike Rabel was trying to get any
(16:58):
job in that first coach cycle after he lost the
Titans job didn't happen for him, and uh didn't get
the Patriots job either, by the way, they passed on
him for Drought Mayo and uh it worked out. Sometimes
better to be lucky than good. You know who who
is not good? Tonight? Your your friend Katie calledwell your
co host on the Great Podcast The only f one
(17:23):
Slash NFL podcast grid Iron check it out, uh twitch stream,
I don't know it's what it is. She points out
that the Giants had the funniest kicking attempt that she's
ever seen. It was a brutal night for the Giants
special teams, but young waykup stubbing his toe on a kick.
I'm so funny to watch. It's crazy, it's sad.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
It's so bad, all right. So if you're watching on YouTube,
you can see it now that that coup approaches where
Gillan's holding the ball ready to be kicked, and I
believe his plant foot was too far ahead. I'm not
sure what happened, but as this so it comes down,
his tail goes directly into the Gillette Stadium turf and
he just stops in his tracks right there, because what
(18:07):
are you gonna do? Try and just like halfway kick it. No,
it's never gonna get there. But it's just an illustration
of hey, how hard it is to get a field goal,
and also like how treacherous the responsibility can be if
you don't get everything absolutely right, because then you're just
left there. Like in the playlog, it's Jamie Gillen sacked
for a loss of thirteen. The funniest line in a
(18:28):
play log you're gonna see all season, and it all
is because a kicker stuffed just tee.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
That is unreal watching it. I'm in my kitchen, my
brother Dean and his wife Karen are here, we're with
we're with my kids. So it's the first half with them.
And then came out to the garage that happened and
they were like, what happened? And then they show the replay.
They showed Jackson Dark making that comment. I think he said,
(18:54):
oh my god or something like that and rolling his eyes.
Everyone laughs. But my brother, who I think last watched
the football game when the Patriots beat the Falcons in
the Super Bowl. He's a musician, not really aware of
what's going on with American football. He's like, does that
happen often? And I and I said, I'm pretty sure
(19:16):
that's literally never happened in the professional football game. I
don't know if it's happened, and it's probably happened in
a high school game. I mean, I was like, there's
no way, young way, who has ever done that before. No,
I'm pretty sure that's never happened in a pro football game,
and I've never seen it happen in a college football game.
I mean dry conditions, Like.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
Yeah, college football games are a terrible place for kickers.
I mean there's a whole college kickers thing because they
just missed field goals and.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
That's never happened. But they never happened. We would know,
here's what would happen. We wouldn't know. No, I don't
think it happened.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
It would come to mind, It would definitely come to mind.
But it's also like, unfortunately, it just typifies young young
Way who's career because like he comes in with fan unfair,
he loses his job with the Chargers, he ends up
with the Falcons. He has a great bounce back year
for like.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
Three years, bro, he was like an all Pro kicker,
wasn't it?
Speaker 3 (20:09):
And then yeah, he was that one really good bounce
back year and then he was pretty consistent, and then
he was inconsistent to start the year and the Falcons
cut bait on him so quickly that that told you all,
they all that you need to know about how they
felt about him. And now he finds another opportunity with
the Giants, and this is what happens, Like it's this
one mistake does not define your career, but it certainly
(20:31):
does tell some of the story of what has been
a winding journey for him as a kicker.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
It was it was painful because all I thought, because
they've been looking for a kicker and been running through
different kickers waiting for Graham Gonoda come back, is that
I really hope that is not the last field goal
attempt of young wa.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
No, it can't be that.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
That would be brutal the guys you bounce around. I'm
sure you'd get another chance, but he also might get cut. Okay,
let's go rapid fire. A couple couple giants points here.
Number one Abdell Carter uh let go or got benched
for the first quarter of this game. And we have
a comment by the way, by the famous Will Gavin
of Talk Sport and Channel five over in the UK,
(21:11):
who has become an international sensation, saying, I wasn't working
on the game yet I'm still up at four am.
Why to watch Drake may electric? I mean, and now
you're up potentially till till four thirty in the morning
watching us. Thank you Will A man who will do
anything to get his name mentioned and get a little
(21:31):
d light. What a way to think. A great friend
and a great viewer.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
He's got a junciation of commanders ever, by the ways.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
The best pronounciation of everything. Abdul Carter got benched again
for the first quarter of this game because he didn't
show up to a team meeting apparently or some sort
of team responsibility. That's the second time in three games
with Mike Kafka. So that's what I'll remember the Mike
Kafka era for that in some gutlet fourth down decisions tonight,
yeah night where I'm thinking, like Kafka's got a I
(22:04):
was gonna have a big take, and I still have
it that I think Kafka has a better chance to
keep this job than most people think. But I think
you're gonna have to have some surprising cool wins or
moments in it. And to punt the ball on fourth
in less than a yard late in the first half,
and then you gave up a field goal to the
Patriots anyways, and then to punt the ball on fourth
(22:25):
and eight down two scores. The game was reasonably close
with like eight minutes to go, and you punted there,
and of course the Patriots get back to where they
punted the ball in about three plays because the Giants
defense stunk all night. The only reason the Patriots didn't
score more is they kept stubbing their toe and they
couldn't run in the short yard. It's just a little
little gut list.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
By Kafas stubbing their toe. You know, I'm going to
defend him for a second, because let's consider the situation here.
And I just looked up the next gen probability or
what the recommendation was, and the recommendation was go for it.
But it was only by like a small percentage. I
believe it was zero point five zero point five percent.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
You try to win a game here, you try if
you're trying to do something special, the only chance you
have is to do something special.
Speaker 3 (23:04):
Okay, But and you're right in order if he wants
to keep the job, because you don't win the job,
like Antonio Pierce once won the job with the Raiders,
unless you win games, and they have not done that
with Kafko, right, But also consider the situation. You are
deep in your own territory. You have not stopped anything
for most of the first half. The Patriots have all
the momentum in the world, and they are ready to
just finally knock you out for good. So if you
don't get it on fourth and one, which you've already
(23:26):
been stopped turnover on downs earlier in this game, then
at least you force them to go I don't know,
fifty sixty, maybe even seventy yards if the Scottish hammer
gets a good gets into it, which he kind of didn't.
But what you don't account for is that your defense
is going to give up like fifty five yards and
three plays.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
Well, you account for you if you've watched the game,
you know.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
I guess that's fair, but I understood it, and I said,
if they would have gone for it, there would have
been idiotic and desperate. But again, the Giants have two
wins on the year. They have to be desperate because
not being desperate is idiotic in itself.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Right. Okay, it's one yard though, and that's hard for them.
That's fair the thirty six yard line. My point is
it just was not surprising that the Patriots were on
the giants nineteen yard line four plays later, seven yards
to Mac Collins, fifteen to do Mario Douglas a short
(24:14):
past Madre Stevenson. This Giants defense is just poorly coached,
even without Shane Bowen. And then yeah, they kicked the
field goal. By the way the Patriots, I point. I
say this every week though Patriots receivers make tough catches.
Mac Collins made some tough catches tonight. I know Mark
Hunter Henry had a drop, which is rare for him.
But Stefan Diggs, you know, Kyle Williams tonight, certainly keseh
(24:38):
on booty. They might not beat you with beat you
with speed. Score they've got good hands, like I've seen
a lot of contested catches that has helped the completion percentage.
And then my final thing on this game is they
should not keep Joe Shane. That's all. Oh why why
did they move the goalposts? Before the season, they said,
you know, John mara is on on the record saying
(25:01):
that wins and losses are gonna you know, that's what
we need this year. We need to show progress. And
they asked, how like wins and losses that yes, we
need to see it in the standings. And somehow they've
moved the goalposts. They've won two games, and I don't
think Joe Shane's done a good job start.
Speaker 3 (25:14):
Over, Yeah, what they did was they scapegoated Brian Dable,
arguably too soon, because I think he finally got the
quarterback that he could work with, and we saw signs
of potential with their pairing. And then they just said,
we need to make a change somewhere, so we're going
to fire our coach, but we're gonna stick with our
GM because we like what he's done with our roster
over the last couple of years. And I pushed back
against that because Abdil Carter is a great example of
(25:35):
how far they still have to go as an organization.
This was the can't miss guy in the draft. Everybody
went into the draft thinking he's the best player in
the draft. The Giants get him in the top five
and everything's dandy, and they trade back in for Jackson
Dark That's great. What has he done this year? Not much?
Lack of professionalism at least according to reports, him getting
benched in the first quarter two of the last three weeks.
That's not good, which means did you vet him or
(25:58):
did you just go with well, he's the best player
on the board that falls on the GM, not just
on the coach. That falls on the GM as well.
There's a lack of professionalism and accountability and preparation with
this team right now, and it starts from the top down.
So I totally agree. If you're going to fire the
coach and blame him for everything, the GM that hired
him and the GM that he was supposed to work
with to turn this team around should also be held accountable.
And I felt like it was it was a half
(26:19):
measure if you're really going to try to put the
Giants back on track toward being a winning football team.
I hate to restart because I think continuity matters, but
you're not keeping any continuity by keeping your GM there.
You're just perpetuating a list of a routine, a habit
of making poor decisions with your team. Further, with the
belief that somehow it's going to change with the new coach.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
I love that, and I do allow for the possibility
that John Mara will change his mind. He has before
when talking about different YEA coaching decisions over the years,
so it could still happen. Carter reportedly was a guy
that was maybe doing this during the Dable tenure, and
(27:00):
that was part of some of the whispers that you
see from the reporters that cover the team that it
was very permissive atmosphere with Dable there and getting him
out the door. Now they're trying to like get Carter
into better habits. But I'm just I'm just making.
Speaker 3 (27:18):
That's unfair because you're talking about you, I know, and
I get that, But you moved the goalpost with Joe Shane. Well,
you're also kind of moving the goalpost with Dable because
think about the position he's in. He's coaching for his
job and in order to increase his chances of winning
games to keep his job, he puts his best players
on the field. Carter is supposed to be one of
his better players on the team. You got to keep
him out there. I don't like the idea of it
being permissive either, because you got to establish some culture
(27:40):
and sense of accountability. But I think he was in
a tough spot regardless. Pinning that on him alone is
not fair.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
Yeah, And Carter, to be fair, came in and I
think he got three pressures in this first series. Yeah,
Like he came in and he was like he had
his hair on fire. He got his sack, which was
really more Drake May sliding at the line of scrimmage.
But Carter got it, but he got a couple other
quick pressures in there, so I thought he played a
pretty good game. And I will say when Jackson Dart
(28:07):
was running back and forth, back and forth during that
two point try that he eventually hit, it reminded me
of a play in Drake May's rookie year a rare victory.
Was it his only victory where he hit his receiver
against the Tennessee Titans on an incredible two point attempt
(28:28):
where he is running back and forth and back and forth.
It was just a guy showing that he's an athlete,
and that was like the first, Okay, Drake May like
big time moment, and so maybe we'll think back on
how this season ended. I don't think Jackson Dart has
nearly the ceiling as Drake May, because you saw it tonight,
you've seen it so far. He's just not that successful
right now as a dropback passer, as a traditional just
(28:50):
like you know, forget the RPOs for you.
Speaker 3 (28:53):
Yeah, that works for bon Nicks, at least it does
for the most part.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
That's why That's why I'm saying the ceiling is not
as high as May, who I think always had every
tool that you wanted, and I think Jackson Dart might
not have that, or it's gonna take a little while. Yeah,
but I do think Jackson dart ceiling is pretty high,
and I think he's looking pretty good as a way.
(29:19):
All right, let's let's move on to this hierarchy, so
quick assignment. We're gonna we're gonna fire through this quickly.
We finished thirteen weeks. The final four teams that have
a bye are going to have it in week fourteen.
That's the Giants and the Patriots and the Panthers and
the forty nine. So you know we're we're at a
(29:40):
nice little point in the season here. I wanted you
after this game, because the Patriots are the number one
seed in the AFC, to break down your AFC hierarchy.
And I wanted you to do it not by power ranking,
just purely who do you think has like the best
chances they're a real chance to make the super And
(30:00):
how we're going to do this. We're going to go
one at a time. It's too hard to go back
and forth. I want you to give me your entire
hierarchy right off the bat top to bottom. We're not
counting teams that aren't going to make the playoffs. It's
an only team that you can imagine are have a
real chance to make the Super Bowl. You give me
your hierarchy right off the bat, and then we'll talk
about that, and then I'll go next.
Speaker 3 (30:22):
Do you want to do this by tiers?
Speaker 2 (30:24):
Yeah? Me give me your different tiers. Start at the top.
Speaker 3 (30:27):
Okay, Tier one, call me crazy because they're not currently
in the playoff picture, but the Kansas City Chiefs are
in there. This is in no particular order, but within
the tiers, Kansas City Chiefs are in there. I'm going
to say that the Denver Broncos are also in there
because that defense is going to travel well. I'm skeptical
of them, but I'm still going to put them in
there because they've looked a lot better in the last
few weeks of the Buffalo Bills. Okay, and last but
(30:49):
not least, the Indiapolis Cults. That's Tier one. Tier two
will go New England Patriots, and then we'll go Houston Texans.
And that's probably it for that one, because then I
have questions about the remaining teams, which, without keeping track
(31:11):
of this, will go.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
It would be Jaguars Chargers. Have you said the Ravens.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
Yet that's gonna be the Jaguars, the Chargers and the Ravens.
Did I just say the Ravens already. I don't think
I did, because I have questions about all of them.
The Ravens being Lamar Jackson just doesn't look like himself,
the Chargers offensive line, and the Jaguars they're very up
and down, and Trevor Lawrence, let's let's break.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
This down here. Let's break this down. So you have
the Chiefs, the Broncos, the Bills, and the Colts in
the top tier. And you have those four teams a
tier ahead of the Patriots. Now, the Colts ahead of
the Patriots, the Broncos ahead of the Patriots. I've been
(31:55):
kind of banging the drum that I think this Patriots
team has some real shortcomings. But I'm cure for why
you think they are a whole tier below a team
led by a broken legged Daniel Jones and Bonix.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
It's not because of Mike Vrabel. It's because of the
trench play. Losing Milton Williams is a big absence, and
I think it was pretty apparent early in this game
against the Giants, and could.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
Get him back, could get both him and Will Campbell
back for the playoffs.
Speaker 3 (32:22):
I think, yes, could could, but it's a big could,
and I think that that's going to be their biggest limitation.
It's that And I hate to say this too because
the Colts don't really boast this either, but it's a
lack of experience.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
Now.
Speaker 3 (32:31):
I love Drake May and I don't think that he's
the problem when it comes to a lack of experience,
but there have been so many new additions to this team.
They spent so much money in free agency. They're relying
on a mixed cast where I like Stefan Diggs is
one of your most senior members on the offensive side,
and he's had a great year. But if I have
to like put a lot of trust in them, I
think that while I could see them in the super Bowl,
I could see them much more being a divisional round
(32:53):
loss candidate with a really high upside going into twenty
twenty six.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
But you can see in your minds, I myself, let's
do it yourself in a trailer outside of Levi Stadium
like we were last year doing a podcast and shook
taking up like half the trailer and we're talking about
that big fourth quarter drive good or bad. We won't.
(33:19):
We won't decide who wins a game by bow Knicks
in that Super Bowl. You can imagine that, or Daniel Jones,
you can imagine that, But you can't imagine the Drake
may One.
Speaker 3 (33:28):
No, I can't imagine the big, the big fourth quarter
drive by bow Nicks. I can imagine the big fourth
quarter stand by the Broncos defense, and I can imagine
the big fourth quarter march by the Colts riding Jonathan
Taylor in that offensive line to a victory and putting
a game away that way. I'm not putting it on
the quarterbacks. I know quarterbacks the most important position in
the NFL, but I think about the completeness of these
other teams, and Denver's defense is I think, still better
(33:51):
than we even give them credit for, and could win
any game at any time. It's gonna be close, like,
it's never gonna be a blowt It's always gonna be
kind of sloppy. It's gonna be very much playing with
your food with the Broncos. But the defense, I'm telling you,
I know it's old school, but they win champions. We
saw it with Eagles last year and the Colts are
a more complete team in that I trust lou Anarrimo
to get the most out of his defense. I would
like to Forrest Buckner to be involved, and I believe
(34:13):
that riding Jonathan Taylor could be a key to success
for them against a team that maybe doesn't have a
great run defense, and they get to the super Bowl.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
Okay, I think a lot of the commenters are wondering, like,
why are the Chiefs in that first tier? But I'm
going to go through mine now. Now I disagree with
you about the Colts. I don't disagree about the Chiefs
being in the first tier because I just think they
have a chance, Like we're talking about chances to go
(34:40):
to the super Bowl in this scenario, obviously they got
to make the playoffs. It's a little lower than some
of the other teams because we know that the Patriots
and the Broncos are going to the playoffs, for instance,
and yet, like I do think I can see that route.
But the reality is this is the most open AFC
maybe open conference that we've seen in a long time,
(35:01):
and so I have a monstrous first tier. I think
that's the way I settle it. In no particular order,
I have the Broncos as well. I have the Patriots.
If you can get I put those two in, even
though I feel less confident in those two teams because
I think they have a really good chance of either
being the one seed or the one in the two seeds.
(35:23):
That is a real advantage, especially being the one seed
getting to the divisional round. It all depends on matchups.
I don't think any of these teams are great, and
so I do think in the right day, the right matchup,
those two teams could win a couple games. I do
have the Chiefs and the Bills, the coaching, the quarterbacks.
It's obvious they're not playing their best. I just don't
(35:44):
think people remember at this time of year just how
freaking long these NFL seasons are. There will be a
team that starts playing its best football in week seventeen, yeah,
or eighteen or you know what. They stink going into
the playoffs, and then they start play really well. I'll
like the Bengals a few years back, like they just
(36:05):
have the components, and I know there's some real structural
problems with these teams, but it's such a weak AFC that,
like I can see it happening So I put those
four teams on the same level with the Ravens because
I still think this defense is playing well right now
and you just can't tell me that a defense and
(36:25):
Lamar Jackson couldn't somehow find a way to figure it out.
And so that's five teams right there, and I wrote
down two more. I actually thought at first, and now
that I'm talking it through, I don't think I can
do it that I'd put the Chargers and the Texans
in there too, because I really just think, here's why
it shook. It's not a good it's not a good AFC. Like,
(36:50):
could the Texans defense be the best thing in the
playoffs and you have a really great young quarterback who
plays his best and beats a bad field, could justin
Herbert go total god mode with a ton of skill
position talent and a pretty well coached complete defense. Hell,
I'm putting those two in the first tier. It's a
(37:10):
seventeen tier.
Speaker 3 (37:12):
That Sea you just ruined the entire exercise because you
just know that's.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
What exercise for me. That's the point in the exercise.
Speaker 3 (37:18):
Peries, you just ruined it. I appreciate your optimism because
we did this exercise. What was it six eight weeks
ago where we're like, how many teams could we see
making the Super Bowl? We put half the freaking league
in there. So I know you're an optimist when it
comes to these things, but if we're gonna tear them,
you gotta have shortcomings with some. And I appreciate the
wide open af seed put this segment.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
This is a year the Arizona Cardinals in two thousand
and nine. Was it lost Week sixteen and seventeen by
a combined thirty like sixty points, and then they were
one drive away from winning the Super Bowl? Like the
Green Bay Packers were a six or a seven seed
(38:00):
and they went and won the Super Bowl. We like
the Steelers made it as as a low. This is
a this is a year. I just don't I just
think anyone's got a chance. And I just don't think
in reality there's that big a difference between this Patriots
team and the Chargers, or this Broncos team and the Ravens,
(38:22):
or a Bills team that's not great, And like the
Chiefs are the Texans, I just don't we keep seeing it.
We'll see it against Satday Night Texans. Chiefs. They're all
around the same, they got a chance.
Speaker 3 (38:36):
You got to win with the Texans performance against the
Chargers in the playoffs las year, because pretty much everybody
thought the Chargers were going to run away with that one,
and they did. The Texans defense dominated them.
Speaker 2 (38:44):
That was actually, but those two teams had no chance
to win the Super Bowl or make the Super Bowl
this year. Don't you feel different? I don't know.
Speaker 3 (38:50):
I mean, because it's wide open, that does make sense.
But at the same time, if it's a confidence thing,
like who is the most complete team, and there is
no perfectly complete team, I just see like the Chargers
on a weekly basis still don't protect Justin Herbert and
I know we have all the faith in the world.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
That's the reason against them.
Speaker 3 (39:08):
But everyone the Texans and they get shredded again by
that defense, like and boom, you're sure, which is why
you don't belong in Tier one. If I can identify
one matchup where I can see you just getting dominated,
you don't belong in Tier one.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
But see everyone's got that matchup. I think that's a
great point. Shook and the weirdly like the Chiefs are
a team that are pretty balanced, like I think the
you know, the Bills give them problems in the regular season,
but I do think, like matchup wise, a team that
could really run the ball on them would be dangerous.
(39:42):
But then you you like look at the group, at
the teams that are making the playoffs and the AFC,
and it's like, who is that really the Chiefs, that's
I mean, the Bills, maybe the Colts, But the Colts.
You can't tell me their offensive line is so great
when I've seen their intier line totally cave in on
Daniel Jones two games in a row. They're not pass
protecting well in the defense's block, and so like, do
(40:04):
they get a matchup where they can hide those I
just I do think it's just gonna be a year
where it all depends on the matchups and there's gonna
be kryptonite for different teams and we won't know totally
till we get there. But like the Broncos aren't some
perfect team. They almost forget the lost of the Commanders
(40:24):
last night.
Speaker 3 (40:25):
Yeah no, And that's the problem is that we have
no idea who these teams are week to week. Like
It's made picking games nearly impossible this season because you know,
on the NFC side, Bryce Young looks terrible one week,
looks great the next, and that's totally true for all
of these AFC teams. There's nobody who is consistently effective
enough from week to week. They've lost certain matchups, and
it makes it all very unpredictable, which is why it
(40:45):
builds the intrigue of the NFL, which is why it's
the best most popular sport in America and why everybody's
gonna tune it.
Speaker 2 (40:51):
Dean in the chat says, y'all why wilding out with
this AFC high Thank you, Dean. I thought shuk was
out there for having the path in Tier two, and
now sixty percent g half the conference in the top tier. Hey, guys,
life is unpredictable. Sports are unpredictable. Okay, this NFL season
has showed us that actually it wouldn't be that big
(41:14):
of a shock for any of these teams. I like,
give them all about a fifteen percent chance, and there's
home field doesn't really matter. The pedigree matters. But that's
why I'm bumping up the Ravens and Chiefs and Bills
into the top tier because they haven't really earned it otherwise.
By the way, I do have a Tier two and
that's that's the other. Initially I had the AFC South teams,
(41:37):
all three of them in there, but now I've bumped
the Texans up. My Tier two is the Jags and
the Colts.
Speaker 3 (41:44):
Yeah, and I was gonna say, I can't.
Speaker 2 (41:45):
See them going through three weeks, and then the Steelers.
You're not even on my list. I don't care that
you're six and six.
Speaker 3 (41:52):
No, just no, they're not in the conversation. They're not
in the conversation. But basically, what you're telling me is
that I should just prepare for we're gonna I'm gonna
we're gonna fly out to Santa Clair in February, and
I'm gonna meet you there and we're gonna be on
set and we're gonna be breaking down Jags Bears.
Speaker 2 (42:06):
Well, no, see the Jags. The only way that I
can be proven wrong is if the Jags or the
Colts make the Super Bowl. I do think the fact
that Daniel Jones cannot move side to side very well,
and that their defense is just like, I mean, there's
a lot of med defenses here. The Patriots are one
(42:26):
of them. But Daniel Jones not moving side to side.
Plus meh, I don't like their chances, so I'm putting
the Jags and the Colts in a tier below. So
the only way I can be wrong is if one
of the two of them make it, or the Steelers. Otherwise,
you know.
Speaker 3 (42:39):
Your grease and the skids. You know, it's fine, It's fine,
it's fine.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
Hopefully this show has been more than fine. Thank you
to everyone who has been tuning in. We love you all,
especially Will Gavin, who's still in the chat making it happen.
I'm gonna be back in the studio. Hit the music,
Crispabon and a great job, by the way, every Monday Night.
Next Monday Night, by the way, really good game Chargers stealer,
(43:10):
I mean sorry, Chargers Eagles in a game that Eagles
are really gonna want in a big test for that
Chargers offensive line. Tuesday on the show myself, Colleen Wolf,
I can't freaking wake. We will see you that
Host
Gregg Rosenthal
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