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May 14, 2024 76 mins

In a room full of heroes - Dan Hanzus and Gregg Rosenthal get you caught up on news from around the league and then rank the top tight ends in the NFL. The show starts with a discussion about the 2024 NFL schedule release (7:40), the Raiders giving Aidan 'O Connell a shot at QB 1 (11:00), and the Bears giving Caleb Williams the starter role (13:47). After the break, Jon Ledyard joins the show to help rank the best tight ends from the 2024 season (27:58) and the best tight ends since 2010 (55:10). 

Note: time codes approximate. 

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Transcript

Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Around the NFL podcast Big Bone.

Speaker 2 (00:05):
Randy is beautiful from the Chris Westling podcast studio.

Speaker 1 (00:11):
It's Around the NFL.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
Yeah he is, because beauty comes in all shape and
soysus case in point. I am Dan Hansis I am
joined by Greg Rosenthal.

Speaker 1 (00:23):
Ladies two options on the spectrum.

Speaker 3 (00:27):
I mean you might want a third option. I don't know,
but yes, I think you're only two options. We show
the various ways men can be beautiful and you can
check that out are differing, you know types on my
last Instagram post on our little photo shoot we took
one day when Mark didn't show.

Speaker 2 (00:47):
Up for striking the photos, striking the differences in physical builds.
Sometimes we forget because we work so closely and then
you see a photo.

Speaker 3 (00:55):
By the way, to be clear, Randy is Randy Bullock
that the everybody knows that I know, but just to
make sure, because we do have someone in the chair
also name is Randy.

Speaker 1 (01:05):
Well, you're talking about Big Funk, Big Funk.

Speaker 3 (01:08):
I don't want the listeners who are just joining the
show and maybe weren't work with us.

Speaker 1 (01:13):
But this is such a twenty fourteen season.

Speaker 2 (01:15):
It's such a Greg slash Larry David moment. I mean, like,
why are you connecting the dot? You know that's borderline
body shaming itself.

Speaker 3 (01:24):
I'm not connecting any dots. We have a we have three.
I'm sorry that the people with the microphone right now
one of them is named Randy. I think it's okay
to tell the people about the history of Randy Bullock
from the Texas.

Speaker 1 (01:37):
Just being a little fresh. It was Mother's Day. You
go see your mom's like, have you been exercising? And
then you come that one I've got.

Speaker 4 (01:44):
We all get it.

Speaker 2 (01:46):
Sometimes you get the birthday gift that's like Jim closed,
It's like, oh yeah, all right, mom, I got you.
By the way, Uh, there is another there's another body
type not in the studio right now. Mark Sessler is
not with us today, but he'll be back on Wednesday.

Speaker 1 (02:10):
Leave it there. Coming up on today's show.

Speaker 2 (02:15):
It's many thirteenth, and yes, happy Mother's Day to all
the moms who listened to this show, which there are
dozens and everyone. I hope you were good to your mom.
Were you good to Deb Rosenthal?

Speaker 1 (02:29):
Sure?

Speaker 3 (02:29):
I mean she's in Massachusetts, so it would have been nice
to be there. Yeah, spoke enough and some flowers, the
same stuff talked t had a big week. She had
a special art show in Martha's Vineyard. If anyway it
happens that to be in Martha's Vineyards, it's still going
the next three weeks check out at the Vineyard Playhouse

(02:50):
with Debbie Rosenthal retrospective.

Speaker 2 (02:52):
What I mean do you ever think do you ever
think you're or brother Dean correct? Yeah, a very talented musician. Yeah,
like almost a virtuoso, right.

Speaker 3 (03:09):
Went to Yeah classical he composes classical music and went
to school for it. And yeah, he's great, more talented
than you.

Speaker 1 (03:16):
Your mother.

Speaker 2 (03:17):
She's actually has showcases and arguably more talented. In the
Rosenthal Power rankings, you might be third. That's all just
throwing it out. There's an option. It's me Rade, I
got your back.

Speaker 1 (03:30):
Tom. Give him some to think that he lays his
head on the pill.

Speaker 3 (03:34):
We decided who was more talented when I took him
out as like a twelve year old on a tennis court.

Speaker 1 (03:39):
So he's fourth. You can figure dubs or you can.

Speaker 2 (03:43):
Because it's May thirteenth, we're gonna do random stuff like
just talk about tight ends today.

Speaker 1 (03:48):
We're going to talk about tight ends.

Speaker 2 (03:50):
Tight end palooza with John Ledyard, who is a really
really smart football guy who does the Audibles and Analytics podcast,
among other things, and he's going to join this on
that conversation.

Speaker 1 (04:01):
But before we do that, let's hit the news just overall.

Speaker 5 (04:04):
It hit me this morning about three thirty four in
the morning. Woke up staring straight at the ceiling and
said to myself, it's not just another day, it's two day.
And uh, maybe that's just another way of saying attack
this datement an enthusiasm unknown to mankind. But yeah, it

(04:25):
was a it was a great day.

Speaker 1 (04:32):
Oh my goodness. Jim Harbaugh.

Speaker 2 (04:34):
Sometimes you have to pinch yourself and remind yourself that
Jim Harbaugh is back in the NFL.

Speaker 3 (04:39):
I love it. I love that he's Justin Herbert's coach.
I love that he's the Chargers coach. Just gives them
a certain stature they just I've been I've been wanting
out of him. I've been I've been wishing that they
have every year when I predict.

Speaker 1 (04:51):
Them to do well and they and I know you
will again this year. Yeah, Now, isn't it Is it
fair to say that? And maybe this is just like
my perspective on it that.

Speaker 6 (05:01):
Seems a little bit more off kilter than his last
NFL stay, like not not deranged or anything, but maybe
eight percent more kind of old Jim.

Speaker 3 (05:12):
He's sixty years old, so I think we're starting to
find this. We're in our forties, and you see this
with older friends or family members, Like as you get older,
I think you become even more of who you are,
Like whatever care you had about trying to hold back
the parts of yourself that maybe weren't as you know,
like just boring or average, and you're just like, he doesn't.

(05:34):
He's Jim Harbo. He just won the national championship. He's
going to lean into all things hard.

Speaker 2 (05:38):
Okay, I feel like there might be a tipping point
in that realm when you're the leader that's an organization.

Speaker 1 (05:44):
But maybe we're not there yet.

Speaker 2 (05:45):
By the way, just out of curiosity, because there is,
and check it out on YouTube.

Speaker 1 (05:51):
He's behind these.

Speaker 2 (05:51):
Like shaded glasses and the eyes are kind of bulging
a little bit, and he's looking toward the heavens as
he's saying these kind of crazy things. I just figure,
let's hear what it sounds like with a little music
music accompaniment, just just overall hit me.

Speaker 5 (06:08):
This morning about three thirty four in the morning, woke
up staring straight at the ceiling and said to myself,
it's not just another day, it's two day. And uh,
maybe that's just another way of saying attack this day
when an enthusiasm unknown to mankind.

Speaker 1 (06:26):
But yeah, it was a it was a great day.
And I mean, you know what I mean now what
I was expecting. But I see what you're where you're
going here.

Speaker 2 (06:36):
I'm just saying, if you like, just look at it
from a little bit of a different angle. Yeah, it's
a little disturbing that he's running an NFL team now, Like,
if I'm a Chargers fan, I'm ninety percent thrilled about this,
ten percent terrified.

Speaker 1 (06:52):
I I hear that there's a little bit of terrified.

Speaker 3 (06:54):
Like he John Harby always has thought, has had that
little there's like a little bit I'm a little scared
of John.

Speaker 1 (07:00):
What's really that John? Jim is like that to another level.

Speaker 3 (07:03):
The thing I'd be scared about is, yes, the history
of guys, after all the success that he had, at
some point they get to one stop and then you
look at it in the rear view mirror and you're like, oh,
that was kind of a bridge too far.

Speaker 1 (07:15):
That was like the last contract that he got, So
that's not But I.

Speaker 2 (07:19):
Disagree with you that John gives me any type of
similar vibes, if that's what you're saying, because John is
no doubt intense as well, and he could be very
demonstrative and when he gets fired up, but there's just
something a little different about Jim. John would agree with
you on that. Iagine I agree. All right, let's get

(07:40):
to the news finally. Yes, the schedule will be released.
We can say this not breaking news. It's coming on Wednesday,
and we will our schedule this week will reflect that
it's gonna be a little different. We'll do a Wednesday
schedule release show. We don't know everything obviously about the
schedule right now. Leaks will are inevitable. That's how we're

(08:00):
leading up to Wednesday. But the one thing we do
know is what The NFL announced that the season will
kick off with the defending Super Bowl champion Chiefs facing
the Ravens at Arrowhead on Thursday night.

Speaker 1 (08:12):
The game will be on NBC.

Speaker 2 (08:15):
Of course, Gregi a rematch of the AFC title Game,
which was played in Baltimore. The Chiefs won that game
seventeen to ten, and then won their third title in
five years. They are the Kings of the Castle, so
it makes sense that they kick off the season last
year a great opener where they got picked off by
one point by the Lions. That is the Kadarius Tony game,

(08:36):
as I recall it as a Patrick Mahomes and I
think Katarius Tony fantasy owner.

Speaker 1 (08:41):
But this game should be similarly exciting to watch.

Speaker 3 (08:45):
Yeah, I wasn't thrilled, just because I like the Ravens
and this is a tough spot.

Speaker 1 (08:50):
Though you know Lines pulls it off. Why not the Ravens.

Speaker 3 (08:53):
It's obviously as one of the most exciting games on
the calendar. I wanted Texans personally. I just thought that'd
be nice, the new fresh CJ. Stroud opening night, like
new quarterback versus mohammeas, but I guess I'll settle.

Speaker 1 (09:06):
For a ring. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (09:08):
My only quibble is the because that's why I thought
Chiefs Lines was perfect last year. Yes, Intra conference or
whatever these mega tilts for that, could you know, decide
tiebreakers at the end of the season happening in week
one after you know nobody even plays in the preseason anymore.
It's a little early for a game this Titanic. But
also we're all going to be, you know, chopping at

(09:29):
the bit to watch it, so you can't really get
after the NFL in that one either.

Speaker 1 (09:34):
So that will be how the season starts.

Speaker 2 (09:37):
And then I believe is that this year they'll have
a Friday night game also.

Speaker 3 (09:41):
The Brazil game, so NBC gets back to back games.
I think it's Peacock Friday Night in Brazil, Eagles, Packers
and Ravens.

Speaker 1 (09:48):
You start you on Thursday. How about that? How about that?

Speaker 3 (09:52):
In other news, we also got to get the international
games get their own little mini show on NFL network
Wednesday morning to announce the international game. So that will
be before the rest of the schedule.

Speaker 2 (10:04):
I have an announcement, by the way, that will be
coming up for the international audience. So I'll say no more.
But that's a tease as well. In other news, you know,
connected to the schedule. It's all connected. In other news,
fire the trope alert off because the Las Vegas Raiders.

Speaker 1 (10:27):
Want you to know. Yeah, go ahead, the.

Speaker 2 (10:32):
True Antonio Pierce with that interim tagged freshly ripped off,
has a quarterback decision to make well. I think most
of us assume it's Gardner Minshew who they signed in
free agency, who will be the QB.

Speaker 1 (10:47):
But Pierce said, uh, this week, when was it? Did
he say it? There's I believe that over the weekend and.

Speaker 2 (10:54):
Over the weekend that Aidan O'Connell has quote earned the
right to have the first snap.

Speaker 1 (10:59):
Do we have the sound of that.

Speaker 7 (11:00):
Aiden is already kind of taking a bull by the
horn and he's leading away and Mention's right there doing
as well. Two guys has played and he saw him
play against each other last year and they went neck
to neck. But I'm really excited to see what happens.
I think he's gonna be a process. We're gonna stick
to the process. But as I said before, Aiden's earned
the right to go out there and get the first nap.

Speaker 1 (11:20):
Mmmm.

Speaker 3 (11:21):
It was actually a little surprised by that. I mean,
they gave Gardner minshew a lot of playing time. It
is worth remembering. And Steve Paulozzola from the PFF pot
I did last week, actually he was the first person
I heard say like he wants to see what Aidan
O'Connell can do. I was like, well, that's the take
I haven't heard, and then you think about it. It's like,
I mean, Aidan O'Connell was pretty solid for a rookie.
I put it this way. He was a lot better

(11:42):
than Bryce Young. He was a lot better than a
lot of first round picks we've seen over there. It's
in their rookie season. Like he was just like a
solid player and he's interesting aggressive throw. I think the
upside's pretty small. But saying that makes me think, Okay,
he's got a shot. It's not that crazy.

Speaker 2 (11:58):
Gardner, Uh, not that crazy, but I find it to
be unlikely. But you know, he's playing the game the
way he wants.

Speaker 1 (12:03):
To play, by the way.

Speaker 2 (12:04):
I do like the idea of AFC West, Antonio Pierce
and Jim Harbaugh.

Speaker 1 (12:10):
I feel like they're not gonna like each other. I
see like a nice little feud. You think that too
funk right, He's shaking his head, but it's weird.

Speaker 3 (12:18):
Eric Roberts is in the building, he's in the production
you know, bass here, and he's just watching over Randy
shaves his shoulder. It kind of reminds me it's like
what Bill Belichick was trying to avoid when Bill Parcells
tried to name him the coach of the Jets.

Speaker 2 (12:35):
Right, it just sounds like another brilliant decision by management.
Here's what's behind this anyway?

Speaker 3 (12:40):
Well, my baby is due soon. No, I think it's good. Yeah,
I think it makes sense. I'm just it's funny watching
literally have him watched.

Speaker 1 (12:47):
He has sat in for.

Speaker 8 (12:48):
Me a couple times in the past weeks for like
ultra sound appointment stuff like that. So I don't know
what's more stressful, me being out of the building and
knowing this is happening, or me being like not five
feet of this and like kind of I don't want
to backseat drive, you know?

Speaker 1 (12:59):
Right? What how about for funk?

Speaker 2 (13:01):
Like the idea of someone not just figuratively looking over
your shoulder, but literally looking over your shoulder and telling
you whether you're doing things right or wrong.

Speaker 1 (13:10):
I'm used to it. I've known Eric for like five
plus years.

Speaker 2 (13:12):
Okay, is he one of those buddies judging.

Speaker 1 (13:17):
I would impressed that one. It's like, I wouldn't. I
wouldn't hit that sound. I'm like, okay, for sure, unbelieve
that's classic team.

Speaker 2 (13:23):
That's how it goes, how it goes In other quarterback news, Uh,
you know bully to the Bears.

Speaker 1 (13:27):
They're not playing that game.

Speaker 2 (13:29):
Caleb Williams is supposed to be the guy who's going
to take the franchise out of permanent mediocrity.

Speaker 1 (13:35):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (13:35):
They pick him number one overall and they are not
messing around because he is the QB one on May thirteenth.

Speaker 1 (13:43):
Good job, guys. Here is Matt Eberfluse on that decision?
Has he even told that he's the starter? Going and
training gept you and have to have that conversation. No conversation,
he's the starter. I mean, look at this ebra Flus.
I like that. Actually he looks good. I mean totally different.

Speaker 3 (14:00):
The flu sclow up is really crazy this news I
liked you said that, and he said, you know what
he wants to see out of Caleb boyas just don't
get ahead of yourself and everything. It made me think
for a sec I was like, oh, yeah, well of
course he's, you know, the starter, but who are even
the options?

Speaker 1 (14:14):
And I was like, it's.

Speaker 3 (14:15):
Tyson Bagent and Brett Rippin. I wouldn't mind a veteran
in there. I wouldn't mind Ryan Tannehill behind Caleb boy
Maybe Ryan Tannel doesn't want that kind of gig. I
don't know, but you're one injury away from Tyson Bagent
and you don't need a veteran there to maybe help
out your guy.

Speaker 2 (14:31):
Or, as Mark Sessler would say, Brett Rippiam. All right,
so let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see news.
This just went on before we This just went down
right before we started. We have a major payday for

(14:53):
Antoine Winfield.

Speaker 3 (14:55):
Four years, eighty four million dollar extension, forty five million
dollars guaranteed. I want to see how this is structured there.
You can make it sound any sort of way, but
it's probably the best contract for a safety year.

Speaker 2 (15:08):
Here is an ever huge, huge headline banner headline on
nfl dot COM's landing page. Winfield Junior becomes NFL's highest
paid dB.

Speaker 1 (15:18):
History. Okay, that's where I will. I want to see.
I want to see the details.

Speaker 3 (15:23):
Is it like an extension off the franchise tag that
he had already? I don't even know. I guess not.
That's amazing. I think he probably is the best safety
right now to bet on. I think his season last
year was so exceptional it's kind of hard for a
safety to repeat that season year after year.

Speaker 1 (15:42):
The guys that can do that become Hall of Famers.

Speaker 3 (15:45):
He's been a little not up and down, because he's
always been a very good player, but he's had two
of these seasons out of four where he really popped
out and like, they would not have made the playoffs
if not for Antoine Winfield making these plays, especially in
that Panthers game where he stopped him from going up big,
and they would have basically been knocked out of the playoffs.

Speaker 1 (16:03):
So he has made an incredible amount of good plays.

Speaker 3 (16:06):
Yeah, considering Derwin James is healthy, he's probably safety one
right now in the NFL.

Speaker 2 (16:10):
Yeah, the last huge safety contract I remember is Jamal Adams.

Speaker 1 (16:14):
I know there's been others, but Minca got a nice
Niga did too.

Speaker 2 (16:19):
Adams, for instance, was known more as like a box
safety guy that can do some damage. But Winfield is
a real all around type player.

Speaker 1 (16:25):
And this is interesting. Schefter pointed out he.

Speaker 2 (16:28):
Is the first time it's the first time a safety
has been named the highest paid defensive like in NFL history,
So that, I mean, that's a big deal. And again
the numbers and how it's cooked up, maybe it's not
quite that.

Speaker 1 (16:42):
But also he's one of those rare.

Speaker 2 (16:44):
Guys that was a first team All Pro and did
not make the Pro Bowl.

Speaker 1 (16:50):
How does that happen? I don't know. My Pro Bowls
are overrated.

Speaker 3 (16:53):
We'll get to that later on our historic look back
at the tight end position.

Speaker 1 (16:58):
Okay, yeah, a good call.

Speaker 2 (17:01):
In other news, the Jets, they have really improved their roster.

Speaker 1 (17:07):
I've talked about that. I've, you know, I've.

Speaker 2 (17:11):
I'm trying to keep it in perspective and understand so
much cautious optimism and a lot of the reason for
their you know, hitting the brakes on just full out
optimism is you know, the Nathaniel Hackett of it all,
which is an offensive coordinator that is clearly was out
of his depth last year once Aaron Rodgers went out

(17:31):
for the season. Immediately he had a terrible of course,
one year run with the Denver Broncos, didn't even making
the full year as a head coach, so his his
stock is at its lowest, and there was this idea
like why is he even still the oc.

Speaker 1 (17:44):
Let's hear some Nate Hackett. By the way, we got
to hear some Nate.

Speaker 2 (17:48):
There was this this idea like, why wouldn't you replace
him now? Connor Hughes of s n Y, who used
to cover the Jets on their beat and but still
remains attached to the team in some ways, said that
the team did internally Greg Look made quote legitimate attempts
this offseason to hire someone who would essentially replace Hackett,

(18:09):
not as a new offensive coordinator, but a title above
who would run the show.

Speaker 1 (18:13):
My question of that is an easy one. It's like, well,
then why did they do it? Right? Just my name's
Nathaniel Hackett. Thanks, it's nice to see you out here.

Speaker 2 (18:20):
I mean, if they were that serious about it, how
can they weren't able to identify someone and now instead
you're just going to go into this year the same
as last year, and it's a legitimate concern.

Speaker 3 (18:32):
Well, they have to answer questions about that too. That's
my biggest takeaway from this, which is that's uncomfortable for him,
for Robert Sala, for this to be out there. It's
just gonna be brought up, like if they struggle on
offense to start the season. The reporting of it's a
little odd though too. You know, Hughes puts it in
a mail bag like gives it the headline. But it's

(18:53):
like the fourth question in a May mail bag and like,
that's a big If you're reporting something like this to me,
is a real story, report it with your chest and
really make it.

Speaker 1 (19:02):
Am shot against the mail bag guy. No, I'm just saying, yeah,
a little bit. Whoa.

Speaker 2 (19:08):
But it's not like a regular beat reporter anymore either.
It's I don't know, we can't really who cares about
Connor Hues is like the deep dive into what he
does and how much writing is doing. But maybe this
just for him makes sense.

Speaker 3 (19:19):
And to be fair, they were going to try to
hire someone above him. It sounded like he wouldn't get
fired in that scenario, but they were.

Speaker 1 (19:24):
They were trying to which would appease hypothetically the Rogers.

Speaker 3 (19:28):
And I don't I don't take anything into the fact
that he, you know, he noted how often Rogers, you know,
I guess this is in the pre you know, in
the practices, would just completely change plays based on what
he was seeing and not run Hackett's call. And if
that was a sign that the OC is not a
good sc literally every o c Aaron Rodgers has ever
had like was a problem, didn't ever expect That's just

(19:50):
why Aaron Rodgers does, and it's mostly what you know
has helped Aaron Rodgers be great.

Speaker 1 (19:56):
So I'm not holding that against the thing you hang
it that part of it. Yeah, yeah, I don't know. Damn,
I don't know. I mean, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (20:05):
Let's move on, Bill Belichick, you know, finally, you know,
I'm not happy with the way Bill is being meant
to sing for his supper this offseason. But here's one
thing I can get behind because this feels like it's
in his wheelhouse and doesn't put him in a situation
beneath him. Bill Belichick will appear every week on The
Manning Cast this season, so that is the alternate Monday

(20:27):
night football telecast that has both Manning brothers.

Speaker 1 (20:31):
So I guess he'll I don't imagine he'll be.

Speaker 2 (20:33):
On the whole show, Greg, but he'll be on a
section of the show, maybe one quarter of the show.
And that sounds like it's gonna make that show even better.
Because if I could say there is one negative to
the Manning Cast, it's very when it goes guest heavy,
which is the nature of the show.

Speaker 1 (20:51):
If it's a guest I'm not really into. Yes, it
kind of ruins the flow of it. Because I do like,
like I think many people do.

Speaker 2 (20:57):
You like to hear Peyton and Eli kind of chopping
it up, been going back and forth about the strategy
of the game with Bill.

Speaker 1 (21:03):
They'll be able to do that, you would imagine at
a very high level.

Speaker 3 (21:06):
Believe the report indicated it would be like first quarter.
So he's gonna have all this preparation. He's going to
be coming on what's happening by how these teams are looking.
I mean, he's also can get to bed a little earlier.
That way, you know, maybe if he wants.

Speaker 2 (21:20):
More agism, that's perfect. I am with a warm cup
of milk. So he's in bed by ten.

Speaker 3 (21:24):
Greg, I'm just saying, these games are on late and
fourteen years old. You just want it to be an
easier lift. If you're Bill Belichick, can I pick my quarter? Okay,
I'll take the first. I'm with you. The parts where
it's just Manny and Elight. To me, they should just
have faith that that's the best part of the show.
And I've always thought watching this show, if they did
two guests instead of four, it'd be better, Like, just

(21:48):
just pick two guests.

Speaker 2 (21:50):
We don't need it every quarter. And Peyton is so
Peyton is so skilled in the media. He does a
great job that he's able to kind of show run
in real time. But sometimes you can see the gears
turning on Peyton that he has to like maneuver certain
things as like the host of the show all elis
just doing his ELI thing, Like just let Peyton cook too,

(22:11):
so he doesn't have to worry about doing that because
some of us can do it easily, like some of
us can be high level entertainers and steer the show.
Some of us struggle a little with it. That's that's
just the way it is. Greg talk about takes the
show where it needs to go.

Speaker 3 (22:25):
You know, we've all improved though, you know from that
they're now entering year three. I'm with you, and I like,
I like, what about my uli.

Speaker 2 (22:33):
Barry Horowitz patting myself on the back monologue there.

Speaker 3 (22:36):
I'm thinking about myself too, that all of us, when
I've listened to that first season of shows, we all
got better.

Speaker 1 (22:41):
Oh yeah, reps help and everything in life.

Speaker 2 (22:44):
Uh real quick, Mike McCarthy, Cowboys head coach Zeke Elliott
is back in the building and there's this horrifying thought
of Zeke Elliott and all the pop the hood stats.

Speaker 1 (22:55):
Around Zeke are horrific. That he is a.

Speaker 2 (22:58):
Good goal line back, perhaps still or a competent one,
but is maybe the slowest running back in the league
or high up on that list. He can't possibly be
their starter in twenty twenty four, while Mike says probably not.

Speaker 4 (23:11):
You know, I don't think that's fair. I mean, what
do you mean? I mean, he guy carried a ball
more than anybody in history of football in the first
couple of years. You know, that's that's not going to
be his role. You know, we're we're running back by committee,
you know. But I think he'll definitely play at the
level that he's played. I know, my time here, I
anticipate that. I don't see, you know, any drop off
in the way he moves.

Speaker 1 (23:30):
He's in good shape, all right.

Speaker 2 (23:32):
So Mike's gonna say that in May, but he's obviously
a much lesser player at this point. Zeke and I
feel like this is a team they're gonna add somebody,
somebody's gonna shake free, or they're gonna make a move.

Speaker 1 (23:44):
It just feels like that depth chart's not done, do you.

Speaker 3 (23:47):
Yeah, I'm doing projected starters for NFL dot Com. The
first one's up AFC East and yeah, looking at that Cowboys,
it's like Rico Dubtele or Zeke Orduce Vaughan.

Speaker 1 (23:57):
They'll probably add someone late in camp, you know.

Speaker 3 (24:00):
I found though looking this up, looking at Zeke's numbers,
he was the leading receiver by receptions at least for
the twenty twenty three New England Patriot. Though, if you
want to know why that offense, Uh, that's one one
way to use zero in.

Speaker 1 (24:15):
That's horrifying.

Speaker 2 (24:17):
It's pretty I might have to like, have you say
that's stat again with this scary Jim Harborough music under you?

Speaker 1 (24:23):
All right? Uh, quick hitters Patriots.

Speaker 2 (24:26):
Zeke's former team hire Elliott Wolf as their personnel chief.
We talked about that last week that it was coming,
and now it is a deal. The Chargers signed pass
rusher Bud Dupree Zay Jones, the wide receiver heads to
the Cardinals. Oh your boy, Greg Washington's second round pick,
Johnny Newton needs yet another foot surgery.

Speaker 1 (24:44):
It's explaining why he fell in the draft.

Speaker 2 (24:46):
And uh, remember you try to bury that info to
win a sandwich prop But I said, does he have
any medical red flags? And he was like no, no, no,
Now he's having another I mean, I hope he keeps
the foot.

Speaker 1 (24:56):
I mean, at this point, another surgery. It's not what
you want right off the bat.

Speaker 2 (25:04):
And finally sad news, Former Chargers General manager A. J.

Speaker 1 (25:10):
Smith passed away over the weekend.

Speaker 2 (25:13):
And AJ Smith Greg was a very notable figure in
Chargers history.

Speaker 1 (25:18):
He was there during In fact, he's the winningest GM
in Chargers history.

Speaker 2 (25:23):
He kind of was the architect of those great early
you know aughts Chargers teams and also never got over
the hump in the playoffs obviously, but built some really
damn good rosters in his time there.

Speaker 3 (25:39):
He's one of those guys that I think about if
we had a podcast then he would have been a sneaky,
huge figure in it, because those were the best teams.
Year after you had the fourteen and two season where
it was one of the best regular season teams I've
ever seen that lost in the playoffs to the Patriots,
and then they fire Marty Schottenheimer after a fourteen and
two season and A. J. Smith and Marty Schottenheimer had
these kind of knocked down, drag out stuff where impressers.

Speaker 1 (26:02):
A J.

Speaker 3 (26:02):
Smith was really cutting to his team to his coaches,
to the reporters, and he was that dude.

Speaker 1 (26:10):
And he also stared down the Manning family, made Eli Manning.

Speaker 3 (26:14):
Hold up the Chargers jersey, and while that was happening live,
this is pre Twitter, like, we didn't really know how
that was gonna go, and he didn't totally know either.

Speaker 1 (26:22):
He had a good feeling that it's like they're gonna
blink and they're gonna give us what we want.

Speaker 3 (26:26):
And he got Philip Rivers and yeah, they were always good,
the North Turner ones with him never quite got over them.
They were always like a nine to seven team, but
he built up some superpowers and was a weirdly huge
figure in the NFL for like six seven years.

Speaker 1 (26:41):
So rip a j Smith.

Speaker 2 (26:42):
Yeah, they lost that the crushing Patriots game with all
that bad blood I as a Jets fan.

Speaker 1 (26:48):
The Jets knocked off two big.

Speaker 2 (26:49):
Time Chargers gems where they were the underdog in both years,
both times in San Diego, and that was obviously just
kind of the story of those teams filled with talent,
big time regular seat and then could never get over
the hump.

Speaker 3 (27:01):
But the one time they overachieved, they get to the
conference finals and there it's Philip Rivers with the torney
sal playing on a torn a ceo. Danian Thomlinson kind
of moping on the bench. Come on, also hurt, but
that's why it is moping.

Speaker 2 (27:12):
Don't mope, fight through it anyway. A j Smith passes
away at the age of seventy five.

Speaker 1 (27:19):
Rest in peace. Let's take a break and when we
come back, it's John Ledyard time.

Speaker 9 (27:30):
Blurs it out in the flat caught Kelsey forty five
across midfield hurdles a defender George Kettle chucking away, go
underneath and this is clot from a joke.

Speaker 1 (27:42):
Could carry the defender on his bench.

Speaker 2 (27:44):
Jackson points cruising down till Andrews got free.

Speaker 1 (27:48):
Remark couldn't give it.

Speaker 2 (27:49):
Two and they cut it anyway more than chitch by
Andrews wit two seconds.

Speaker 1 (27:55):
Back on the clock. There he is a rookie porter.

Speaker 2 (27:59):
Yes, it was a big year in twenty twenty three
for the tight end and now we're going to talk
about it, both the current class and a little atm
history lesson going back in the last thirteen years or so,
and to help us.

Speaker 1 (28:15):
Along on that ride.

Speaker 2 (28:16):
As a man who knows his ball, he is a
host on the Audibles and Analytics pod.

Speaker 1 (28:22):
You could find him all over the place.

Speaker 2 (28:24):
In fact, John Ledyard, Welcome to around the NFL.

Speaker 9 (28:29):
Hey, guys, is an honor to be with you, guys.
I'm excited to talk some tight ends with y'all.

Speaker 2 (28:33):
How did a feel when Greg Rosenthal, the man who
once built rode a world brick by brick with his
bare hands his calloused hands, connected with you randomly and said,
do you want to talk about tight ends?

Speaker 1 (28:45):
Hey?

Speaker 9 (28:47):
Well, I didn't have it on my bingo card, but
I was greatly honored. Greg and I have fought each
other for a while, and so it was exciting when
he jumped in and was like, Hey, would you like
to jump on this pod? And I was like, you
guys have probably more fun than anybody else in the
NIMAL on a podcast. You're definitely in the top five
of the fun rankings, and so I was like, man,
opportunity to talk ball with those guys as a dream
come true. So I'm excited.

Speaker 1 (29:08):
I like it.

Speaker 3 (29:09):
And you mentioned yeah, rankings, so that's it's the off season.
I like little rankings. We're gonna do, We're gonna do,
take a little snapshot. We might revisit this various times
in the off season. It's fun to kind of take
a snapshot of a position, talk about where they're at now,
and then also, yeah, we're going to look back and
try to decide who are the best tight ends of
the since twenty ten?

Speaker 1 (29:28):
And I'm thinking who knows ball?

Speaker 3 (29:29):
And I've been listening to the Audibles and Analytics podcast.
I'm a relatively recent convert during draft season, a little
late later in the playoff season, and you and Annie
Ollie Connolly, I should say, do a great job. So
everyone should check out John's substack right and with it.
And I also felt bad because I gave him a

(29:49):
lot of like homework kind of it was like a
little as we're a little ass minute, I try not
to give you kind of want to give homeworks. But
he seemed like of all the people and this is
meant as a compliment that wouldn't feel like maybe it
was a huge burden last minute to all of a
sudden conjure up multiple sets of rankings.

Speaker 1 (30:07):
I thought John would be a honest show. It is
that how you feel.

Speaker 9 (30:10):
Would he read it extremely well? I may or may
not do this in my spare time, so I may
or may not have been prepared.

Speaker 2 (30:18):
But you know, while John is perhaps an exception, I
just want everyone to know out there that has a podcast,
which is most of America and beyond. H when you
have someone on as a guest, don't try not to
give them a homework assignment.

Speaker 3 (30:31):
Depends, depends, depends if you give him like a week's notice,
at least not twenty four hours.

Speaker 2 (30:36):
I mean, just take it easy. Okay, they're coming on
your show. That should be enough. Let's get into it. John,
you came up with a list. Let's start with the
modern day, the current, the twenty twenty three into now
twenty twenty four tight end class. We each submitted to
our production team our top ten, and then I believe

(30:57):
Funk and ETP did there wiz and took those three
options or those three lists and made it into one
Mondo list.

Speaker 3 (31:07):
Right, So we do not know the results of these rankings.
Let's put them up. We do not see them yet.
I see I see them back in the control room.
We need to see them.

Speaker 2 (31:15):
All right, Fly him up, all right? So this is
this is what the interesting, all right, So here we go.
I'll go ten to one here. Dalton Kincaid not in
my top ten. Came in at number ten. Evan Ingram
of the Jaguars, number nine, Dallas Goddard, number eight, David
Njoku my guy, number seven, t J. Hockinson, number six,

(31:35):
Trey McBride. Oh it's number five. This is what I'm
talking about. This are all these young guys new on
the scene. Number four, Sam Laporta of the Lions, number three,
Mark Andrews of the Ravens, number two, George Kittle of
the Niners, and of course number one, Travis.

Speaker 1 (31:50):
Kelsey of the Chiefs. All right, let's start at John.

Speaker 2 (31:56):
Do you have when we look at our combined list here,
do you have a name that kind of does not
jibe overall that you've had somebody higher or lower.

Speaker 1 (32:06):
Let's start that way.

Speaker 9 (32:07):
I don't have any big gripes with this list. Honestly,
it's not too far off from mine. The only player
in this ten that I didn't have in mind was
Evan Ingram, and he was eleven for me, just outside,
so very strongly consider him. I also kind of split
mine up into tiers a little bit, so when you
get past the first six guys, to me, I think
there's about six or seven guys after that that, I

(32:29):
would say you could put them in any order, and
I would understand your reasoning. Depending on the scheme that
you're looking at to fit with a certain quarterback or
coordinator offensive system, you could prioritize different things at that position,
different skill set traits you value. So it really does
become after I think the first six or so, I
think it does become almost like a dealer's choice.

Speaker 1 (32:49):
I mean almost the whole list.

Speaker 3 (32:50):
I thought it was hard to decide who is sort
of a top the tight end mountain right now, Let's
start there, because our top three is Kelsey, Kittle, Andrews Kittle. First,
I feel like Travis, I mean, George Kittle was the
best tight end in the league last year. I think
I'm always going to lean a little bit to a
guy who's that dynamic as a blocker. He hasn't stayed

(33:11):
as healthy and explosive as you would want, but he's
still much younger than Travis Kelce, and he was healthy
and mostly explosive last year. So I'm guessing the two
of you both had Kelsey number one. I almost I
think I had a Kelsey a few spots lower because
I was thinking about this year, and I expect that
decline to come. And then as I did the process

(33:31):
and went into him, where I was like, I can't
doubt this guy. It's ridiculous to put him any lower
than two. At least I had Kelsey at number one.
But I could see why you went down that road.

Speaker 2 (33:40):
With Kelsey wasn't quite as good as he was the
previous season, where I think he was heading shoulders the
best tight end in the league. And Kittle, if you
look at some of the advanced numbers at PFF, i'll
cite them. First of all, he was their highest graded
tight end by quite a margin over Travis Kelcey, who
was second.

Speaker 1 (33:58):
And then he had some really numbers.

Speaker 2 (34:01):
He Kittle had twenty nine games of fifteen plus yards,
which is tied for first among all tight ends. He
led all tight ends in deep receiving yards. He averaged
ten yards depth per target, seven point three yards per
after the catch game two hundred and seventy nine yards
after contact John And of course everyone knows Kittle is
the complete tight end and is a boss as a

(34:23):
blocker as well. So for a guy that sometimes can
get overlooked in certain conversations, he had a great season,
playing five hundred and sixty eight snaps.

Speaker 9 (34:34):
I thought the first three guys, which you've mentioned, two
of them, Kelsey and Kittle, and then for me it
was Sam Laporto was the third and we'll talk about him,
and those three were in a tier together for me
at the top. And the reason why it was difficult
to rank him and I did rank Travis kelce first,
as you mentioned, Greg, was that the playoffs. Honestly, that
was the big part of it. I don't think in
the regular season that Travis Kelcey was as transcendent as

(34:56):
he normally is. I think he was fine, He was
very good, But I don't think you were like, Wow,
this guy is just on a historic pace still at
his age, all this kind of stuff, and then he
goes into the postseason thirty two catches on thirty eight targets,
three hundred and fifty five yards, three touchdowns, and four
playoff games. To me, just the stage that he was in,
the spotlight that was on him, considering the fact that

(35:17):
they didn't have a lot of other weaponry like that,
to me took it to another level when you consider
like the role he played in actually winning a championship
this past year. Now we're projecting ahead, and you're right, Greg,
at some point that is good. That decline is going
to continue to come for Kelsey and perhaps that was
his last hurra and it goes downhill from here. But
with Kittle, who I think is the most complete tight
end in the NFL and probably the one if we

(35:39):
were just saying I'm starting a neutral team and I
want to pick a guy for this season, like just
to be on that team, and the situation is just
we don't know yet all question marks at quarterback play
car he'd probably be the guy you pick because he
can pretty much do anything, and also you get the
splash play on and he's probably the best downfield tight
end in the league. All of that combined makes him

(36:00):
very enticing target to pick, even in be number one.
But I just kept coming back to, Okay, Kelsey has
hardly missed any games since entire career, and Kittles has
had more nagging degrees that he's dealt with and worked through,
and perhaps that all changes this year, but that gave
Kelsey a slight edge to me, but very close between
those two guys, and even Laporta being in that mix.
For me, I had a hard time sputting up those guys,

(36:21):
thinking about twenty twenty four as the kind of the
barometer by which we're saying we want these guys on.

Speaker 3 (36:26):
Our teap This's why it's good to have three of
us combined on these because now you've kind of tuked
you guys, have tucked me into it, giving anyone else
the top of the mountain other than Travis Kelcey and
giving it to a guy who, in Kittle, now thinking
about it, had a total of four catches in those
last two games. He wasn't a huge part of that
offense with Kelsey had three times the production.

Speaker 1 (36:45):
You're right in the playoffs.

Speaker 3 (36:47):
So if you're trying to pick between the two, even
though he's a little more dynamic Kittle, it's hard to
go against that. The super Bowl was on yesterday and
I kind of let Walker watch. It's like, I won't
let you watch TV. Force Well, no, I'm not forcings.
He's dying, but uh, you know, on the weekends, okay,
you can watch some sports. You don't don't watch TV,

(37:07):
but you canna have sports on. So he's watching the
super Bowl, and yeah, you're reminded that. It's like it's
Rashid Rice or Kelsey on all the big plays, which
you know the situation there and now it reminds you
how important Rice was to them. And otherwise it's like
Richie James on clearout routes. And they won a Super
Bowl that way, not like dominating the Oy. You kind
of forget they didn't score the first twenty five minutes

(37:28):
of that Super Bowl. They got it done. I do
want to hear from you why you had Laporta that high.
I still put Andrews ahead of him, but Laporta is
better as a blocker than probably we would have expected
as a rookie. And just his usage was incredible, Like
how how they used him for him to step in
and be that good that right away. I had him forced,
so I wasn't too far off, but you had him

(37:49):
a whole whole tier ahead.

Speaker 1 (37:50):
I'm curious why.

Speaker 9 (37:53):
For me, the biggest thing with the Porte is that
I think to already be able to do I'd rather
be early than late on a guy like that that's
that good. I loves a puge him. Coming out of
college too, he was my number two tight end behind
Kim Kid in the class. I thought he was the
real deal, and it was easily a top thirty player
in the class. And the fact that he was able
to go into that situation in Detroit where they obviously
have a bunch of targets to earn the trust of

(38:14):
the staff enough from camp you could tell right away
they're like, Oh, not only are we going to play
this guy, his role isn't going to be siloed. He's
going to play in line forty seven percent of the time,
twenty six percent of the time will play out wide
for us. We'll match him up against corners and he
will beat them off the line of scrimmage, and at
the top of the route one v one he'll be
in the slot twenty six percent of the time. Give
him a two way go he can function a flot

(38:35):
receiver for us. So just the fact that he can
do everything at the position at his age with such
limited experience, I mean, almost nine hundred yards and ten
touchdowns last year in the regular season. I already think
he's the best tight end in the league at the
top of his route. When we just talk about who
creates max separation at the top of the route with footwork, quickness,
explosiveness out of the break to me that support. I

(38:56):
think it was a big calling guard for him in
college too. They literally took what he did at Iowa
and they said, it's going to be an exact carbon Coffy.
We we're gonna ask you to do in the NFL,
only against way better competition. And he was able to
do that as a rookie. I just think that's incredibly rare.
I think he is a very special player. Also, fourteen
of twenty two on contested gatch situations. Last time he

(39:17):
forced thirteen miss tackles. So really where the weaknesses with
the porters where I think I kind of like had
a hard time ranking him lower than this.

Speaker 2 (39:25):
Him, Laporta and goff in play action was absolute death
to defenses last year.

Speaker 1 (39:31):
I had him as four. I put Mark Andrews just ahead.

Speaker 2 (39:34):
And he's kind of a guy that maybe gets overlooked
just because you know, he missed the end of the
last season with an injury. He's been banged up at times.
But a good data point here, Andrews generated the second
highest passer rating when targeted among tight ends one thirty
five point one when Lamar was targeting him last year

(39:55):
before he went down.

Speaker 1 (39:56):
Here's a little good Ravens nug for you, GREGI all right,
the only.

Speaker 2 (39:59):
Person that had a higher passer rating target was at
one forty one point two isaaa likely of the Ravens,
So that works.

Speaker 1 (40:07):
He's on my long list.

Speaker 3 (40:08):
We'll get to some of the guys that didn't make
the ten, because I do think at least one name
is very interesting to talk about, but likely when I
made my long list out, he was like top fifteen.
He's pretty dynamic. I do want to get to Trey
mcbridebeing so high. I thought I was going to be
the highest on him, but apparently we all were if
he just about if he ended up fifth, he is

(40:31):
one of those guys thinking about him versus Kyle Pitts
who didn't make the list, And we can get to
Kyle Pitts, but like if it's by the way he
was eleven.

Speaker 1 (40:40):
On him, Oh really, he was just.

Speaker 3 (40:44):
He was just off of Mi okay, So that's how
Kincaid slipped on there because I had Kakaid quite high.
I think Kaid's movement is just crazy and he's set
to have a big season, and part of his production
last year being a little lower I think was just
him getting used to the league, and by the end
of the season you can see he is a special,
special mover.

Speaker 1 (41:02):
I get why you had him t one in.

Speaker 3 (41:04):
A great class, but McBride, Like, if you just watched
Trey McBride's tape from last season and you told me
he was taken in the top twenty picks in the
NFL draft, was like, I would believe that. Like, to me,
he does everything he is. He is a special ball winner.
He is good after the catch, like he's tough. There's
kind of nothing I don't see. And he just kept
backing it up week after week. And he started to

(41:25):
show it a little bit late in his rookie year too,
that like, I don't have that many more questions. To me,
he's sort of at that level that now I expect
him to be a Pro Bowl caliber player for the
next some odd years.

Speaker 1 (41:36):
John die for me. Yeah, Okay, there we go. That's
how it happened.

Speaker 9 (41:41):
Yes, I'm a huge I saw I had McBride forth.
I'm a huge fan of McBride. I mean, so this
was the most interesting stat one of the most interesting
stats that I found, Uh, his yards per route run
last year. He was first amongst all tight ends over
two point over two yards per route run last year
for McBride, and better than the better than Kelsey, better
than all these guys here about how great their seasons were.

(42:04):
And with McBride, I just kept coming back to man, like,
what is the weakness was? I watched him and remember
he had that rookie year that was so nondescript and
everything was a mess. Obviously, then he did half this
season without great quarterback play here and Kyler comes in
and it gets a little bit better, I think. But
I mean to be the ball winning that you talked
about is a really valuable thing at this position. I

(42:24):
think tight ends are often working the middle of the
field down seams. Windows on them are usually closing pretty
quickly with guys working top down on them, and so
to be able to make catches with your back to
defenders I think is really important. You often have somebody
crowding your space as you're making catches at this position.
So love that forced twelve miss tackles. He's not like
super elusive in space or anything like that, but just

(42:46):
the fact that he's so tough. He's just very physical player,
you know, And I watched him, I said, power forward
type of player. He doesn't have this elite on ground
athleticism kind of but when you watch him, you just
think power forward and everything that he does. He bulldozes people,
He knocks people back his physicality at the top of
the route, you know where Laporta kind of sinks and

(43:07):
cuts and accelerates and is so smooth, and you can
see the athleticism. McBride just like knocks guys out of
his path and subtle though he doesn't mean nobody gets
called for OPI consistently in the NFL, but he's just
a very physical player. You were not going to set
the tone on him. Good blocker as well. He can
do a lot of different stuff too. I think that's
what it being going to be one of the more
valuable things when we talk about this position. How many

(43:28):
guys can do a lot of different stuff. McBride can
block in line, he can block on the move, which
he does frequently for them, and on the perimeter as well.
A great stock blocker, and so they trust him a lot,
I think, and that's a big thing with him and
Laporta to be really young and to be trusted as
much as they are to do as many different things
as they are is just not very common in today's NFL,
so that's why I have them both so high up

(43:49):
the list.

Speaker 3 (43:50):
He also was had like thirty straight minutes of him
during a in season hard Knocks. I believe it was
or all or nothing. I don't even remember at this
point that literally no one on earth watched other than
me a solid thirty minute chunk in one episode. And
I think I'm just like glad that that. I feel like,
now that paid off for me.

Speaker 2 (44:08):
That's good, that's important, and I'm glad it enriched you
in your analysis. Can we talk a little Davin Joku,
because your guy, he's my guy. I always believed in him,
and it was a little bit of a slow train
to get where it needed to be. But I really
thought it happened last year, especially when Flacco got involved.
He set career highs in targets, catches, touchdowns, He led

(44:31):
all tight ends, john in mistackles, forced also in explosive gains.
This was a guy who was absolute terror. I could
I could just picture it. It happened against my team,
the Jets, but happened against a lot of teams this
year where in Joku all of a sudden streaking over
the middle like a rampaging Mustang.

Speaker 1 (44:50):
It's hard to bring down.

Speaker 2 (44:52):
I think he could even be better if he ever
gets truly consistent quarterback.

Speaker 1 (44:55):
Play your thoughts on njuco in Djoko in Juko.

Speaker 9 (45:00):
For me, he was seventh, uh he but I am
a huge fan of his game. He was my number
one tight end in the draft when he came out
that you remember that was oj Howard m and Ingram.
There was a lot of guys in that class and
for him, like, the biggest thing I thought when I
watched him was that just the post catchability, which honestly
we've kind of seen a little bit of over the
course of his career, but this was the first year

(45:20):
where it felt like it really all came together for him. Man.
I mean, just you speak about intangibles, and I think
that batters a ton like let's I mean, and Djoku
has those right. One of the toughest dudes in the league.
Physical Uh, he's selfless. His teammates love him. Remember when
we thought.

Speaker 3 (45:35):
The freaking face burned off and he was playing the
next week, John, Yeah, dude, it's.

Speaker 9 (45:39):
Fas like it just one of those dudes that he
will talk to talk and walk the walk. And I
remember when early in his career we were like, maybe
they'll trade him, like it doesn't seem like it's working
out there, and they were like, no chance, we're trading
this guy, like we know it's going to come around,
and he's still only twenty seven. I think that's just
an insane part of all.

Speaker 2 (45:59):
This when you could try safeties with no eyelashes, like
that's that's different, Like you're built different.

Speaker 1 (46:04):
Let's let's put the list back up there.

Speaker 3 (46:06):
Eric, You're right, some of these guys are sneaky young,
like in Joko you just mentioned. I couldn't believe TJ. Hockinson,
who I think comes in at number six. Let's see
the list, Eric, He's still just twenty six years old.
It feels like TJ. Hockinson's been in the league forever.
He's coming off a tourney ACL.

Speaker 2 (46:23):
That's such a bummer because he was he had had
a perfect place in that offense and hopefully he's able
to come back as the same TJ.

Speaker 3 (46:30):
Yeah, and John made a good he asked me, and
this is why you know he's a pro. He's like,
if we're talking about yea, John, take it for twenty
twenty four. He's like, are we holding it against Hockinson
that he's coming off with torn acl because he might
not be even ready for the start, As I say,
a personal don't don't hold it against him, so that
I put him where right in the middle. Goddard's been
kind of slumping lately, and then looking at Ingram.

Speaker 1 (46:51):
You missed my top ten by the way.

Speaker 3 (46:52):
Yeah, he just didn't look like the same guy, and
you do worry about the miles that he's put on him.
But if we had done this exercise last year, would
have been in my top four. So I had a
hard time putting a much lower. I think I had
him eight or nine. I'm guessing John, you had him
somewhere in that ballpark because Dan five.

Speaker 9 (47:09):
Actually I thought ahead of Andrews. This is probably my
most controversial ranking.

Speaker 3 (47:13):
I guess it's well there, No, that's where he was
for me initially, and then I just kept sliding him down,
thinking like, he just didn't quite look like the same
guy a year ago.

Speaker 1 (47:20):
But tell me if I'm wrong, Well, both.

Speaker 9 (47:23):
These guys have that. The Goddard and Andrews conversation is
both like are they who they were last year? Or
are they who they've been in the past. I think
is the conversation with both of them moving forward. I
believe in Goddard maybe a little bit more because it
goes back to how much does your team trust you,
how much does your team, how many different things does
your team ask of you? How important you are? Are
you to your team's success? And I think you saw

(47:44):
it a lot right that Eagles offense really struggled when
God wasn't in there. And it's not so much about like, oh,
he wasn't around to literally catch the football and produce
like in that way. It's because of how much he
gives that offense and what he's able to do as
a player, just in part of being a big part
of their RPO game game as a blocker, what they
do with him on the move as a blocker, A

(48:04):
very hard player to find a fact simile for. He's
a second best blocker on this list, I think other
than Carol and Joki's playing that conversation too. So he's used,
He's formed himself into an all around player. I really
don't love Field, not that the way Philly uses him
is bad. I think they use him in ways that
are helpful to their offense, but not as helpful to
Dallas Goddard as they could, whereas Andrews is like the

(48:25):
feature piece I think in Baltimore. To me with Goddard,
the A dot is just plummeting, like can we get
him targets down the field?

Speaker 1 (48:32):
Can we?

Speaker 9 (48:33):
I mean, he has done this stuff in his career.
We know he can be this player. I think a
big reason for what if Philly is going to go
back up on offense, if they are going to climb
the rankings again and truly be one of the most
feared offense in the NFL again, I think they have
to expand their usage of Goddard again. It's it just
became so narrow of a usage for him, and I
think he's just capable a lot more so. I did

(48:55):
have him five and Andrews six. That was a very
close one. They're in the same tier for me. Andrews
I think is still very good. What is great about
his game I think last year, even when he played,
he was eighty percent of the time in the slot,
So he's kind of like he's become like a big
slot receiver, which he's always spent a good amount of
time in there, But is he much of an inline
guy at all anymore? His A dot was just way
down last year in that offense, and so does that

(49:16):
system know how to use him?

Speaker 1 (49:17):
As well?

Speaker 9 (49:17):
As another question with him, I think he had some
ugly drops. It wasn't his best season as a blocker.
He's never been the biggest playmaker with the ball in
his hands. But I think everything about his game is
still like pretty good, I think. And he's only twenty
seven to two, which is crazy. So who bounces back
out of those two is probably going to determine which
ones in the top five next year when we do.

Speaker 1 (49:36):
This, right, you think the Eagles going back to God.

Speaker 3 (49:38):
It is such a great situation for him, But you
said it right, And actually Jalen Hurts might not be
like the best quarterback for him because Jalen Hurts his
best attribute is on the outside, Like he's just not
as consistent working in the middle of the field. He's
great at, you know, throwing the go balls, and they
build the offense around that. So maybe that hasn't helped
him vice versa like the flip side of that. As

(49:58):
Everitingram had one hundred forty three targets last year. I
was like, I can't believe that I'm glad Evan ingraand
find found the role that like he deserves to have
because I always thought he had something to him and
the Jaggars have gotten that out of him.

Speaker 1 (50:08):
Before we move on to by the.

Speaker 2 (50:10):
Way, check out the splits too, because Ingram was very
quiet in the first half. Even he's getting targeted, he was.
He was a really good player for them and productive.

Speaker 1 (50:16):
He's great after the back.

Speaker 3 (50:18):
He's great at what they what he does, which is
just those those drag routes and everything.

Speaker 1 (50:23):
Is Kyle Pitts. Are we sure he's good?

Speaker 3 (50:24):
I guess I'm the only person that didn't put him
in the top ten. He's He's someone i've actually I
have watched a lot of them, and I just don't
think he moves the same way as we that he
did coming out of college or even his rookie year.
And and I know the quarterbacks have been bad and
that's a big part of it, but I look at
Drake London and I think, Okay, Drake London's really underrated.

(50:45):
If he was in a different situation, he'd be like
a top ten wide receiver. And I don't know watching
week after week, I don't I don't know if I've
seen that totally out of Pits. There's always a lot
of miscommunications with Pitts, which is tough to know, Like
is that his fault to the quarterbacks? But when it's
happening so much, you kind of think it's him. So
he was my number eleven player. I was like, these
other guys have have been a little more consistent, and
I don't totally see like the special athleticism anymore than

(51:09):
I have expected, because probably because he's playing through injuries.

Speaker 1 (51:12):
What do you think, John, Yeah.

Speaker 9 (51:14):
I had inn Djoku seven, Hawkinson eight, Kincaid nine, and
then Pitts ten. And you're completely right about bets, Like,
he wasn't a better player than Evan Ingram last year,
So you could put Jake Ferguson over him, you could
put him further down the list.

Speaker 3 (51:27):
For me, Friarmuth is in that mix guys that didn't
make Yeah Shultz.

Speaker 9 (51:32):
I mean there were a lot of guys that were
better than him last year. I just think about his age,
I think about the offense he was in, and I
just wasn't a big fan of a lot of the
usage for him and I think he basically just has
to be like this field stretcher, Well, what else can
he do for your team? Like I think he can
do more things for your team. All that is. All
that said, there's no doubt Cowpits, and I don't think
we talked about this enough. Cow Pits has not played

(51:53):
well enough in the NFL. Frankly, Like, there's no question
about it, Like when it comes to route running, when
it comes to mental mistakes, when it comes to making
tough catches. Look at his contestant goat trades and then
watch the tape and you'll see a lot of those
concerns show ups So this is very much of twenty
twenty four. Who am I taking? Like, if I need somebody,
I still want to bet on the upside around this range,
just because I think the upside is a little more

(52:14):
limited as you get further down the list. But there's
no doubt that this is This is a critical year
for cow Pits, obviously for payment long term all of
those kind of things. He goes into a pivotal fourth season,
but this is it for him. I mean, he's got
to put it all together. There's still unbelievable traits here
We've seen the flashes. Yeah, a thousand yards of a
rogie like this guy is capable of it, it just

(52:36):
hasn't happened consistently.

Speaker 3 (52:37):
We were in London for one of the high moments
of his career. He lit up the Jets that game.
Yeah they went like seven or something.

Speaker 2 (52:44):
So, yeah, he's got one thousand yard season on his
resume and maybe some of those miscommunications. He's had a
lot of quarterbacks, a lot of bad quarterbacks. I think
this is a perfect setup for him. He might only
get Kirk Cousins for one year because of their absurd
roster strategy, but give me a consistent quarterback that puts
it on the numbers. How many times you see Kyle Pitts,

(53:05):
you know, jackknifing trying to reach behind his body and
throws over his career so far, I'm really excited by
his upside. And we're gonna take a break and then
quickly talk a little more historical in the last fifteen.

Speaker 1 (53:16):
Years or so.

Speaker 2 (53:16):
But I want to let everyone know that I put
Taysom Hill at number nine and whoa, that doesn't count
because he's not a real tight end. But if you
give me three hundred receiving yards and four hundred rushing
yards and six touchdowns, and you could throw a nice spiral,
you could find the back ten, back half of the
back ten of me.

Speaker 1 (53:32):
For me, that's every time that is bold.

Speaker 3 (53:35):
I gotta say last year was the year that I
did start thinking, Okay, Taysom Hill actually is underrated. He
actually was very helpful to their winning and was making
pretty consistent plays. We got you tasting top ten is
a little rich for me, but I got you Saints
fans pretty unique.

Speaker 2 (53:53):
All right, let's take a break and we'll be right back.
All right, we are back just for fun. This is
Greg's idea of fun. And I was like, yeah, let's
go for a ride. Let's go through the mind of
Greg and with John along for the ride. He said,

(54:14):
you know what's even more from the talking tight ends,
Let's crank back the clock and let's talk about our
favorite and the best tight end since twenty ten, which
is somewhat arbitrary. I thought it was a little like
he just wants to talk about Gronk and and I
thought to myself, I here's my logic, here's what let
me just say number So I know that a big

(54:36):
part of this conversation for Greg now is so he
could say Gronk's better than Travis Kelce.

Speaker 1 (54:41):
So here's what I did. I.

Speaker 2 (54:43):
Even if I don't totally believe it, put Travis Kelce
one over Gronk. And my hope, my hope is that John,
who we don't know each other prior to this conversation,
He's probably gonna put Cronk number one. But if he doesn't,
if he put Travis Kelce number one, that's two to one.
It's Kelsey beats Gronk, and the entire idea of the
exercise turns and collapses in on itself on GREGGI in

(55:06):
a big spot.

Speaker 1 (55:07):
So, without further ado, the it also means I'm not
allowing anyone else to vote.

Speaker 2 (55:11):
Next time the top ten tight end since twenty ten.
Come on, Travis number one. Give it to me, Give
me what I need because we need it to.

Speaker 1 (55:21):
Stick it to Gregy in a big spot. It sounds
like you already know the end. I don't know. Let's
see it. Oh yes, Kelsey, Oh big time, what a win.
Oh that's why I get up in the morning. That's
why I love this job. We big focused on his
arms up in the air, too.

Speaker 3 (55:39):
This is preposterous, all right. Here always have for like
wins and losses. What is it that Jim Harbos said
at the top.

Speaker 2 (55:45):
Of The Urracious Loser, It's happened, and now you got today.

Speaker 1 (55:49):
It's today? What was it?

Speaker 2 (55:50):
Number number ten, Mark Andrews number nine, Vernon Davis number eight,
Zach Ertz number seven, Antonio Gates number six. Greg Olsen, Yes,
that Greg Olsen. It was a quite a fine tight
end before his feet turned on him. Jimmy Graham at
number five, Jason Whitne at number four, George Kittle at
number three, Rob Gronkowski Gronk himself number two, and Kelsey

(56:16):
the Great Travis Kelsey comes in at number one. Let
us Greg before you can, because you deserve the opportunity,
because now that this segment is imploded on itself in
a big spot for you, I'm gonna give you the floor.
I'm gonna move out of the way, But first I
want to hear yes, iris.

Speaker 1 (56:33):
John, your opinions? Why John said Travis over Rob? Go ahead, John, Yeah.

Speaker 9 (56:40):
Greg's probably regretting having me on the show. I apologized, Greg.
I had to do this, so this actually hurt me too,
because I covered Gronk in Tampa Bay for a couple
of years and just an absolute joy if as a
player as everything to be able to cover. And honestly,
if you this is obviously a great conversation or probably
discourse that'll happen for years. These guys are obviously in
the same tier. There's no wrong ranking here in my opinion.

(57:01):
Oh Greg might disagree. But the big thing for me,
I think is when you look at games played, there's
an edge with Kelsey. I think even though he is
still he's still has when you look at the starts
of their career, Kelsey didn't even really play his first year,
I think, so you go back to that a little.

Speaker 1 (57:15):
He's like a season he's a season up.

Speaker 3 (57:17):
Just to put the stats out, he basically has sixteen
games up on Gronk now going in.

Speaker 2 (57:21):
And Gronk started at age twenty one. Kelsey's career didn't
really start to lage twenty five, which is interesting.

Speaker 9 (57:27):
Right, and I think Kelsey's still adding to that. Plus
just really always being healthy is a big part of
this ranking. Now if you ask, it's kind of like
the Kittle Kelsey debate. Honestly in a little ways, like
if you're just saying I'm starting both these guys at
the beginning of the career. I'm starting a neutral franchise.
Who do I want to build my offense around. I
think there's definitely a real strong argument for Gronkowski because

(57:48):
of how good he was as a blocker. You could
play Gronk and you could do this with Kelsey two
to a degree. You could play him as an ax
like by himself. You could put him on the back
side of three by one on the single receiver side,
and he was like in his heyday, he was like
cash money basically.

Speaker 3 (58:02):
That And that's the reason why let him think they
beat the Chiefs in that game was exactly that reason
that they could do that.

Speaker 1 (58:10):
Greg, You're gonna get your check.

Speaker 9 (58:11):
I've just never really seen anybody win the way Kelsey win,
Like I've never seen him. He isn't even a great
athlete anymore. And he's open all the time. How like,
how is he he knows everything that's happening around him
all the time. I obviously he has cart blanche to
kind of do what he wants as a route runner,
which is incredible to watch. But I just don't know
how anybody who moves like the way he does is
getting open to the degree that he is at his

(58:31):
age and staying healthy all the time. It's just watching
him is remarkable to me because I feel like, okay,
like you should be able to knock him around, like
he's not that fit. You should be able to like
stay in his hip pocket. He can't think he's not
that explosive. Like you look at his contested catch numbers
and it's like he does a good job, but he's
also hardly ever in contested catch situations, so you just
like it doesn't make any sense. And then you watch

(58:52):
him in every single game. He's open all the time,
all over the field at all levels. When they needed
him to be the vertical guy last year because they
had absolutely nothing, he goes out and he makes plays
down the field. I'm just like, I don't even understand
the production is the counting numbers are a little bit
on his side over like when you look at yards
and things like that, But he's got the game's advantage
there too a little bit since twenty ten. So it's

(59:14):
a fascinating discussion. I've bounced around throughout my lifetime uncovering
these guys and watching them play, but I think that
there really is no wrong answer on it, but I
just had to go with Kelsey because of a couple
of those factors.

Speaker 3 (59:26):
I get it everything that you said is right on
when it's talking about why Kelsey is so great, and
he's he's kind of a genius in term of football,
genius in terms of route running, and he gets to
play with another one in Mahomes, and that's awesome, like
you think about players that never got that chance, like
the fact Randy Moss get to play with Tom Brady
at that point in both of their careers. You got

(59:48):
to see greatness elevate each other, and Kelsey has done that.
And the argument to me is a little bit compiler
versus peak. But I have to give it to Kelsey
that his peaks now are all so pretty awesome. So
it truly is an argument where two or three years
ago I really didn't think it was an argument. The
reason I feel strongly it's Gronk is I'm gonna take

(01:00:10):
the guy who, if it's close enough, is better at
their their respective peaks. They're both four time first team
All Pro, so they've been literally the best tight in
the league both four times. But there's two parts where
Gronk is just clearly better. And that's explosive plays including
touchdowns and blocking like those are two massive components of

(01:00:34):
playing the tight end position. And it took me looking
at this to remember Rob Gronkowski averaged like fifteen yards
per catch for his career, like that is that is
just outrageous. And he still has Kelsey by a good
margin in terms of touchdowns, in terms of if you're
just like playing like fantasy points, just like you know,

(01:00:54):
just fantasy points, like he'd even have Kelsey per game
over that, and that's because of all the touchdowns. So
when I think, like, what makes a tight end special,
like scoring explosive plays, and I do think the explosive
plays gets a little lost in the grond conversation to
average fifteen yards per catch the tight end, you're I'm
looking at all these lists and I sorted it on
Pro Football Reference. I mean, there's no other tight end

(01:01:16):
that's even remotely in the ballpark. Everyone's two yards per
catch like behind Gronk. And then you add the touchdowns,
and then most importantly, I think you add the blocking.
Where at his peak and he kept it going pretty
well to the end of his career, they could just
do so many things because of the way he blocked.
Not only did he do a great job blocking, but

(01:01:38):
they just could call plays in such a different way
that that was almost impossible to defend. And that was
because of Gronk. And I think he does have that
in a way that that's better than Kelsey at his peak.
But I'm not going to kill you for going Kelsey
at this point. I think it's an argument he's not
a good one.

Speaker 2 (01:01:54):
But here's yeah, here's here. Here it is to me, like,
can't you can't say anything negative about Gronk? Maybe his
durability and there's a reason why he kind of left
the game in twenty nineteen because he got so beat
up over the years he came into the league with
the back surgery. Obviously it led to the Patriots I think,
being able to get him in the first place where
they did, whereas Kelsey has been just an iron man

(01:02:17):
for that team and the things that's more like what
do I what kind of excites me a little bit
more as a football fan. Kelsey's cerebral nature is so
incredible and John, I'll point to two instances in the
last couple of years. One is one of the plays
many plays that Kadarius Tony ruined for the team last year,

(01:02:38):
that long play against the Bills where he catches the
pass and then in stride throws a perfect ball across
the field to complete an unlikely touchdown that you know
would have swung that game, and he gets called back
as Tony lined up off sides, and.

Speaker 1 (01:02:53):
Everyone was like, can you believe that Travis Kelcey would
do that?

Speaker 2 (01:02:55):
And then after the game, everybody's like, no, Kelsey does
that stuff all the time in practic Like he just
sees the field in a way that other people don't,
and then he has this incredible ability to make plays
because he's just so naturally athletically gifted. The other play
all point two is the thirteen seconds game the Divisional
round playoffs, also obviously against the Bills, and on that

(01:03:17):
amazing sequence where they were able to tie the game.
It's Kelsey who kind of calls out or sets up
the play on the first Tyreek Hill game and then
says to Mahomes, all this happening in real time, Hey,
if they stay in that same defense, look for me
because I'm going to have a seam. And sure enough,
he gets hit for the huge pass games, so he

(01:03:39):
kind of set up both those plays and allowed them
to escape and win that game.

Speaker 1 (01:03:44):
So those are just two examples.

Speaker 2 (01:03:45):
And while I'm not going to get on Gronk because
everybody knows Gronk's not a rocket scientist, although I know
he leans into the gronkness of it all, just Kelsey,
I think, separates himself with his ability to be like
his brother it did on the offensive line physically gifted
but also mentally superstar.

Speaker 9 (01:04:02):
Well, it's also absolutely crazy that just when you talk,
we'll look at the production for both these two guys.
There's so many things to just be like jaw on
the floor about. But Kelsey has since twenty ten, almost
almost three hundred more catches than Ron Gronkowski now, and
Gronkowski still has eighteen more touchdowns than him, which speaks
to Green's point. Also speaks to the fact that Andy

(01:04:23):
Reid is just this savant near the goal line, and
obviously everybody like Anthony Sherman's and those types of players
are getting touchdowns that Kelsey probably would get if he
was featured as much as Gronk down there. But I yeah,
speaks to just like the production that Gronk had as
a red zone guy and as a big play guy,
if he just never had all the injury concerns that

(01:04:43):
he had, and now he's over two thousand yards bying
Kelsey as well since twenty ten. Like the numbers in
the production we would have seen from this guy would
have just been off the charts. And it's just such
a bummer that he ended up, hey, you know, retiring
and this and that year and then we have plenty.

Speaker 3 (01:04:57):
I feel like, well, maybe maybe I'm speaking out of turn,
but I feel like it could have gone different ways.
We could have seen less of Gronk. I mean the
fact that you got five or six great seasons. You
think about the last two times he played Travis Kelcey.
You know, not for nothing that AFC Championship game. They
win it in part by putting Gronk out to the
left and on the game winning drive he makes big plays.

(01:05:19):
Kelsey has a quiet game, and then he scores a
couple of touchdowns in the Super Bowl with the Buccaneers
at the very end. So he still did get kind
of a nice little Gronk spike at the end of
his career. Even if even if you guys are going
to put him first. Should we just zoom through the
rest of the list at least I would say, like
Jimmy put that back up. Yeah, Jimmy Graham had like four,

(01:05:40):
he ends up five on this list. I had him
three because he just for the four for four or
five years. He just had absolute monster years. He was
a first team All Pro, like during Gronk's prime a
couple times, and it fell off fairly quickly. But we
have Kittle third. No problem with that, in who to
me was a little bit of a compiler, I don't think.

Speaker 2 (01:06:00):
I think that's not fair though, because he was what
you dream of in a tight end a guy, a
great safety, valve slash, moved the chain guy in a
big third down. He did so much for them and
had some huge years as well in terms of straight.

Speaker 3 (01:06:13):
Production, and got a couple first team All pros too.
And then I was happy to see greg Al sitting
on this list. I sorted by a couple of different measures,
but on Pro Football Reference they have something called approximate value,
which it's not perfect, but it's trying to be there
be all end all, I just wanted an initial list.
They had him fourth since twenty ten behind Kelsey Gronk
and Jimmy Graham. And that just shows the kind of production.

(01:06:36):
And he was a very John intelligent player too.

Speaker 1 (01:06:39):
John.

Speaker 2 (01:06:39):
I killed Antonio Gates's ranking here because I left him
off only because his last kind of big time year
was twenty ten and then he hung around and had
the issues obviously health down the line. But if he's
still finished seventh, you must have had him high up
as well.

Speaker 9 (01:06:54):
I had him, Yeah, what did I have him?

Speaker 1 (01:06:57):
Sixth?

Speaker 9 (01:06:57):
I think was on my list I had I actually
had Graham lower. I had Graham eighth, and so I'll
contribute to I contributed to him being probably five. It
seems like you would have been hired for you guys. Actually,
my most controversy, I had Kittle third as well. I
had Greg Olsen fourth, and wit in fo wow Gate sixth,
Arch seventh, and I had Graham eighth and Vernon Davis
ninth and then tenth. I was like Mark Andrews. Jared Cook.

(01:07:19):
I don't know, like it's.

Speaker 1 (01:07:20):
Jared Cook made the list. Dang Jared Cook. Yeah, he
you know his production is there though, on all these
lists of yards.

Speaker 3 (01:07:28):
When I sorted in approximate value, he's top seven or eight,
and you're like, dang, Jared Cook's had a nice career.

Speaker 9 (01:07:34):
I sent the list that I refused to just put
Jared Cook because we ever think of him as a
top ten tight end in the last fifteen years.

Speaker 1 (01:07:41):
But he just.

Speaker 2 (01:07:42):
Underhead one of the best catches you'll ever see from
a tight end in a playoff game against Dallas with
the Packers. I just threw Darren Waller at number ten,
and I know that he has not been able to
keep it up and sustain it, but when he did
lock into that zone, he was as impossible to cover
as anyone. So I game a little love. I don't
even know if his career is contending with at this point,

(01:08:02):
but little pop for day.

Speaker 3 (01:08:03):
Yeah, it felt like there was like nine solid apparently
for all of us, because I actually had Vernon Davis tenth.
I split nine and ten with Vernon Davis's old teammate
on the Super Bowl reaching twenty twelve forty nine or seen.
I gave Delane and Walker a little love and old
West fail almost three Pro Bowls, a great blocker, great
at his very peak, and so he's snuck in at ten.

Speaker 1 (01:08:26):
But I'm I'm glad you mentioned Gates.

Speaker 3 (01:08:28):
That is the last thing I want to say, because
he didn't make the Hall of Fame last year, and
I was just like, what he'll get there.

Speaker 1 (01:08:35):
I know who got there, and you gotta wait.

Speaker 3 (01:08:36):
It's like Devin Hester and Patt I love Patrick Willis,
but like if you had said in the middle of
their primes, like who's a better player? And Antonio Gates
was so good And this exercise was interesting because this
was the second half of his career where he just
kind of cruised as terrific, where he did the compiling
that you often need for Hall of Fames and he
was still making a lot of Pro bowls and he's
six hundred to eight hundred yards, but the first five

(01:08:57):
he has that Jimmy Graham and Gronk type peak too
before that, and then he cruised along, So to me,
it was crazy. He's even even waiting a year and
it's just an awesome all time great.

Speaker 9 (01:09:08):
All right, all those guys are pretty I mean, I
think after the top three that are I think going
to be pretty consensus. All those guys really are kind
of a pretty similar clump up until you get probably
to the Vernon Davis range and Wherever's it nine or
ten for you. But I just thought Olsen is kind
of one of the forgotten. Yes, he had three one
thousand yard seasons in a row, and if he had
not had the foot injuries, when you just talk about

(01:09:30):
peak of your power stuff, he was just Remember they
didn't have a ton of other guys in Carolina and
they said super Bowl. He was the guy like talk
about cerebral leadership, consistency across the board until those injuries.

Speaker 1 (01:09:42):
Some hands like just great everything, great rats, I mean
really friendly.

Speaker 2 (01:09:49):
When who ran him and ran into him in Vegas
and he was feeling no pain at all in the casino.

Speaker 3 (01:09:54):
I mean, he's very nice guy. He's doing it right,
he's living well. He's had a great life.

Speaker 2 (01:09:58):
Like if you I try to make the case to
Andrew Marshawn that Greg Olsen was really the you know,
the big loser of the offseason in terms of the
Tom Brady of it all in the broadcasting booth.

Speaker 1 (01:10:08):
But no, Greg Olsen is doing great.

Speaker 9 (01:10:10):
Greg Golsen, he's the JJ Reddick of the I think
he's on that trajectory right, great player who's kind of
forgotten about a little bit, goes great analysts now it's a.

Speaker 3 (01:10:20):
Good although Reddick actually got head coaching interview and might
get more.

Speaker 1 (01:10:24):
Olson Olsen has poked his head around there. He tried to,
He tried to.

Speaker 3 (01:10:29):
There was some like you know, source report that Greg
Olsen would be open if you would want to talk
to him, but they never did.

Speaker 1 (01:10:36):
All right, John, You've said it all.

Speaker 2 (01:10:38):
Follow John on Twitter at Ledyard NFL Draft, Like I said,
the Audibles and Analytics pod, and he's a busy man,
So just keep an eye on him because he's doing
all sorts of great coverage of ball.

Speaker 1 (01:10:50):
Thank you, buddy for joining Strong Jaw to appreciate it.

Speaker 9 (01:10:53):
John, Hey, my jawsband comped to Bill Cower at times.

Speaker 2 (01:10:59):
Very nice John Ledyard everywhere, John, we'll be right back
to closing size.

Speaker 1 (01:11:06):
All right, we are back close some things up. Nice
conversation there with John Ledyard. Good addition, I.

Speaker 3 (01:11:14):
Love that stuff. I don't know where I saw. I
think it was a book I read. It was just
like men, or maybe it was a tweet Like all
men like to do is just like rank thing ranks,
and I was like, yeah, let's rank.

Speaker 1 (01:11:26):
Yeah, I get that. I mean, who better than us
to do it? We've been doing this show we've been following.

Speaker 2 (01:11:29):
Who's Got a Better of Us? Yes again, Mark Sessler
not with us today, but Mark will be back on Wednesday,
so tune in for that. Also Wednesday is the schedule
release show, so we will be breaking down all the
interesting tidbits that are coming out of that. And before

(01:11:52):
we say goodbye, we were just talking tight ends and
all the fun ranking of it, all that men like
to do. There's some heat between one of the great
tight ends of all time. He retired before he would
be part of this conversation.

Speaker 1 (01:12:07):
We just had.

Speaker 2 (01:12:07):
But Shannon Sharp, who was most recently seen kicking the
hell out of us in a podcast award show, right,
they flew him down there.

Speaker 1 (01:12:17):
That's what we knew.

Speaker 3 (01:12:17):
We were done, well I knew, and they not only that,
they had their own roped off section that we were
that I tried to get it.

Speaker 1 (01:12:25):
Oh that was rough. As soon as we got to Austin, like,
oh my god, this was all a trap.

Speaker 2 (01:12:31):
But Shannon Sharp is one of the great tight ends
of the nineties into the two thousands. But he came
after a Shaquille O'Neill, the NBA legend. You know what
if shack you know, really tried hard, and Shack didn't
take too kindly to that.

Speaker 1 (01:12:47):
Let's check out this. This I just thought was awesome because.

Speaker 2 (01:12:54):
Shack cited gil Brandt's NFL dot Com write ups multiple times. Okay,
so Shack cited gil ranking Sean Sharp eleventh all time,
tight ends gilbrand who rest in peace, left us a
year ago, former Cowboys general manager. And I just like that, Shaks,

(01:13:14):
post's gotta be top ten in your profession before you
speak on someone in there in their profession tough, they're
they're their break for Shaq in a big spot there.
But Shacks pointing to gil Brandt putting Shannon Sharp number
eleven as the bible and the be all end all
of rankings, I just got to kick.

Speaker 3 (01:13:33):
Not only that it's an old school NFL dot Com
photo gallery. I can't believe Sharp didn't make the.

Speaker 1 (01:13:39):
Top Labenberg special. But then I look at.

Speaker 3 (01:13:41):
Who is in it, for instance, and you can't you
can't really fault gil gil Wait, actually I do fault
some things. He's got Jason Witten fourth and Gronk like
two spots, but you know what's going to give Jason
Witten a little extra pop. But either way, I love
this rap beef that I never knew anything.

Speaker 9 (01:13:59):
I know.

Speaker 2 (01:13:59):
This is the this is the new Drake and Lamar
pull up the Instagram feed one again because there's I
love coded messaging that It's.

Speaker 1 (01:14:05):
Like, what's going on? Does everybody know about about this
but us?

Speaker 2 (01:14:10):
But at one point Shack and his long die drop
against Shannon Sharp over nonsense rights.

Speaker 1 (01:14:15):
Don't forget I know what you did to get where
you were at. Oh hell yeah, what's that all about? Whoa?
What's that all about? Whoa? Whoa? Oie? Oh I need
more on that.

Speaker 3 (01:14:29):
I do like that, Shack said, Google me four rings seven,
Top seventy five, NBA PA.

Speaker 2 (01:14:34):
He calls himself. You think I have too many nicknames?
He calls him he hashtags at the end, Apex Predator.
Young Shaq was the most dominant athlete I've ever seen
in my life. We took a growing up in you know,
right on the border of northern New Jersey. We couldn't
get into the garden to see the Knicks because they
were very popular and successful at the time, but you
could always get to a Nets game down at the Metalands.

(01:14:56):
So there was like a clash trip to go see
Shack when he was a rookie at the me We
took the bus down. My dad was one of the chaperones,
and we just saw Shack just thrash a NETS team
that was like looking at each other like, how is
this grown man on the court and we are but
little boys. So maybe Shannon needs to remember that he
was a specimen Shack and his numbers stack up pretty

(01:15:18):
well with the all time greats.

Speaker 1 (01:15:19):
Football is completely different than basketball.

Speaker 2 (01:15:27):
All Right, we'll be back Wednesday. Great job behind the glass.
Tag team effort.

Speaker 1 (01:15:34):
Kind of tag. What tag team would they been? Demolition?

Speaker 3 (01:15:36):
I think the Legion of Doom Doom aush

Speaker 7 (01:15:43):
He the gall
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