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January 12, 2025 • 67 mins

Gregg Rosenthal is joined by ESPN's Bill Barnwell to recap Saturday's Wild Card action between the Ravens and Steelers in Baltimore and Texans and Chargers in Houston. First, a look at how the Ravens were able to start their game in such a dominant fashion (01:45), followed by a discussion about Russel Wilson and the future of the Steelers (12:17). After the break, a break down of how the Texans defense saved their season (31:20), how Justin Herbert came up short (37:25), and whether or not the Texans should have their fans feeling optimistic going into the Divisional Round (57:20).

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Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Shot. Bateman comes in motion to the right. Lamar takes
the snap. Blit's pressure coming. He pumps once pocket collapsing.
He backed up the whole waterway, steps up Pros complete.
Hill hasn't touchdown Ravens Lamar Jackson extended the play. Justice
Hill got open and the Ravens are on the cusp

(00:20):
but blowing the Steelers out.

Speaker 2 (00:23):
That was Lamar Jackson two Justice Hill for a absolutely
ridiculous touchdown at the end of the first half.

Speaker 3 (00:35):
This is NFL Daily and.

Speaker 2 (00:37):
Yes we're going live on YouTube and everyone listening the
next day. That was the end of an absolutely perfect
first half by the Ravens. Went into halftime twenty one
to nothing, did not look back for the rest of
the night. Twenty eight to fourteen is the final, although
they ended with the ball ended up one yard short

(00:58):
of three hundred yards rushing on the day. Yes, I'm
Greg Rosenthal. I'm in my somewhat smoky garage. I don't
know if this show is a health hazard tonight, but
it's still a perfect night to talk football and I
have the perfect person to do it with Bill Barnwell
from ESPN. What is happening? And thank you for spending
your late Saturday night with me.

Speaker 4 (01:19):
Bill. It's a pleasure Greg to be sitting here. I
love anytime there's a call where you have, like you know,
a announcer saying throw it away and the play give up,
don't do it, and then the person who is incredibly
talented does it and it succeeds. So perfect setup for
the show right here.

Speaker 3 (01:36):
Yes, thank you for covering me there.

Speaker 2 (01:38):
That was our friend Jerry Sandusky Rod Woodson on the
call for WB A L. And I'm glad we're not
listening to them on the season. I think we had
to show a first half highlight. Like often we play
the play that kind of ends the game. There wasn't
necessarily that play you had the.

Speaker 4 (01:55):
Day might if the game, to be honest, right you, But.

Speaker 2 (01:58):
The story was the first half. And it's not like
textay to talk about. But the first half there were
two drives. The first drive of the game where they
ran the ball nine out of thirteen times and then
Lamar Jackson throws an absolutely awesome touchdown through a little
hole to hit Rashad Bateman on a third and long
for the touchdown. And then the other touchdown drive where
they go thirteen straight runs, the longest drive any team

(02:21):
had all season without passing the ball for eighty five
yards and like that, that kind of felt like the story.

Speaker 3 (02:27):
The story was the.

Speaker 2 (02:28):
Beginning of the game and then the rest of it
was just aftermath.

Speaker 4 (02:32):
Yeah. Certainly for a team that did not have the
player who we most of us I think believe is
they're only above average wide receiver Inza Flowers, it didn't
feel like the Ravens missed even the tiniest of beats
on offense. And what struck me about this game, Greg,

(02:52):
is we do hear people talk about this idea of
the divisional game right that you're playing a team you've
played multiple times. This was the third matchup between the
Ravens and the Steelers this season, and it felt like
every time the Ravens ran his own read ran power
read ran, you know pinpoll with the readop with the

(03:16):
ability for Lamar Jackson, it felt like they never had
answers for it. I feel like the Steelers were making
mental mistakes. They feel like they were sloppy, especially on
that long Henry touchdown run in the second half. There
was a huge hole where multiple players ran with Lamar
Jackson early in the game, you have MIKEA. Fitzpatrick coming
down from free safety to try and tackle Lamar Jackson
as a scrape on the scrape exchange just the defender

(03:37):
on the edge to try and stop a third and
short like it felt like in a situation where the
Ravens are a very familiar team against the Steelers. The
Steelers was still trying to find answers two quarters into
this game, after having played them twice already this season.

Speaker 2 (03:52):
Just because there's no good answer right like the first half,
the answer the answer was kind of let Lamar run,
and he was running quickly. He had ten rushes with
about ten minutes left in the second quarter. He ended
up with fifteen rushes for eighty one yards. I don't
know if he tired himself out or they just realized
that that's not the best way to go, but that

(04:13):
he really didn't run the ball much again until the
very end of the game when they were trying to
kill the clock and he needed to.

Speaker 3 (04:18):
He looked a little.

Speaker 2 (04:19):
Banged up with a couple of times. But you mentioned
that long Henry run. That's one where the dots are beautiful.
I know you love the dots, Bill dots. Yeah, A
simple man. The dots. The dots all go with Lamar
on that run. Four dots go to Lamar and Derrek
Henry goes up the middle. And the reason is Lamar
holds it extra long, or makes it look like he's

(04:41):
sold the extra log or just can't decide until the
last second. And it's been the story of them all season.
They're almost a hard team to talk about in at
least in this matchup when it's just so much obvious
they're better because it is the same thing week after week.
And I'm not sure there's a great answer for it,
but this Steelers defense needed to be like unreal to

(05:03):
carry this team around them, and they weren't.

Speaker 3 (05:05):
They were below average for five weeks straight.

Speaker 2 (05:07):
It's kind of a Mike Tomlin thing, and just checking
out the comments before we got going, like the whole
fire Tomlin from the Steelers fans is going to be
a thing this week. Well, let's let's put a pin
in that for a second while we talk about this game.
But this their defense just didn't really have enough answers
On a night when Lamar did drop back to pass,
they did pressure him a decent amount.

Speaker 3 (05:27):
Wasn't like that was the problem. But they just they
weren't special.

Speaker 2 (05:30):
It's hard to be a special defense in twenty twenty
four or twenty twenty five, and they just weren't special.

Speaker 4 (05:34):
Well, we're going to talk about a game. I assume
we're going to talk about the earlier Saturday games as well,
and that was one where to me, the best players
on the Texans defense won them the game. Derek Stingley
was awesome, Well, Anderson was awesome. Do you know? Hunter
was awesome? And they were transcendent in those moments for
the Steelers. Their stars were not stars in this game.
I mean TJ. Watt. You know, did you what was

(05:57):
your favorite t J Watt woman in this game? Greg?
Do you even if.

Speaker 2 (06:01):
He was on the field, if he's like him shaking
off a lot of injuries. He I mean, he had
the elbow thing that there wasn't there wasn't much a
pressure too. It's similar, frankly to a lot of TJ.
Watt performances over the last four or five weeks.

Speaker 4 (06:14):
Yeah. I mean Cam Hayward, who I think is phenomenal,
a first team All Pro from me this year, did
not have a big game, was in and out a bit.
Joey Porter Junior had a couple of nice plays, but
also a couple of penalties as well. Make if Fitzpatrick
didn't have a great game. He got stiff armed into
the earth by Derrick Henry on Aaron, he got the
rare double stiff farm where you get stiff armed and

(06:35):
as you're falling backwards, Dereck Henry tries to stiff arm
you on the way down again, which is very impressive.
It just felt like the Steelers for them to win,
for them to compete with great football teams, their stars
have to make transcending plays and at their best this year, TJ.
Watt made those plays. Cam Hayward made those plays. Bager
Fitzpatrick made those plays. They did not make those plays
in this game, and there was no alternative for the

(06:57):
Steelers defense.

Speaker 1 (06:58):
No.

Speaker 2 (06:58):
I was surprised when I saw the pressure rate was
as high as it was. Then again, Lamar only threw
twenty one passes. Yeah, he hit sixteen of them for
one hundred and seventy five yards, so it couldn't have
been more efficient. Part of that is he was pressured
on the I would guess four to five just true
scrambles that he had maybe sixty seven scrambles that he had,

(07:19):
and so he makes a positive out of that.

Speaker 3 (07:23):
But the first half of this yeah, when.

Speaker 4 (07:25):
They did get pressure, they weren't able to finish most
of the time. And there were plenty of places in
this game they got pressure on la Mar Jackson and
he just stepped up and stepped through those pressures and
found an open receiver. That happened multiple times in this.

Speaker 2 (07:37):
Game, Yeah, including that that touchdown throw to Bateman, who
has been so good this year and steps up tonight
as the true one receiver, and maybe that influenced them
leaning even more on the run than usual. Henry ends
up with twenty six carries for one eighty six. They
ran the ball sixty nine percent of the time. I mean,

(07:58):
the game scrapped obviously helped in that, but they were
running it like that in the first half as well.
But at halftime they had nineteen first downs. That's more
than the number of plays that Pittsburgh had, three hundred
and eight yards to fifty nine. And the thing that
will strike me the most, and let's listen to the
clip we got Eric behind the glass helping us out

(08:20):
across the Los Angeles area. Just keep an eye if
you happen to watch this one on YouTube of Derrick Henry,
I believe, laughing during the middle of his touchdown in
the second half war the shotgun.

Speaker 1 (08:33):
Three receivers to the left, Jackson Wall hand it off
Derek Henry twenty like.

Speaker 5 (08:39):
Right, God, touch.

Speaker 1 (08:41):
Down Derek Henry and they're going wild, leaving Jay forty
four for the score.

Speaker 2 (08:49):
I mean, this man is so happy, he's laughing while
he's running, and you you just kind of have to
laugh seeing these two guys together. I do hope Zay Flowers, though,
is back next week. We know as we're taping this
show whether they'll play the Bills or potentially the Texans,
but it's most likely the Bill is obviously a heavy favorite,
which that feels crazy. You always get one divisional round

(09:11):
game where you're like, I can't believe these guys are
playing each other this early in the playoffs, and that's
going to be the one.

Speaker 4 (09:17):
Yeah, And you know what Derek Henry's laughing at. Could
be a lot of different things. It could be, Hey,
thank god, I'm not playing in Tennessee right now. I
have a meaningful team to play for into January. It
could be, hey, thank you for making this so easy
that you know, nearly half of your team ran with
Lamar Jackson on this fake and I could just cut

(09:38):
back through the bithic it was the b gap and
just run free for a touchdown untouched. I could accelerate
through your entire defense without even having to run anybody over.
Just the joy. I mean, this was a game where
it felt very fun to be a member of this
Raven's office. We saw Anthony Miller, who I did not
know was in the league, still catching multiple passes in

(10:01):
this game from Lamar Jackson. It really was a if
you are a Lamar Jackson MVP person and I at
the end of the year decided I was one of
those people, this was a great case for you. I mean,
not only did Lamar Jackson make plenty of plays against
a good defense or with you know, on paper, a
good defense without his top wide receiver. Not only did

(10:22):
he run the ball effectively, but just his gravity for
Derrick Henry was on display throughout this game. And we're
not going to factor that into his numbers, but it
is a meaningful thing. It is a real thing, has
been a thing all year because he clips most weeks
of players on the edge who are just frozen because
they don't want to miss out on trying to tackle Lamar,

(10:42):
and then Derek Henry runs pass them for for solid games.
So it has been just a perfect fit in Baltimore.
We all had expectations and it's not even better than
any of us could have expected.

Speaker 2 (10:52):
And yet yeah, no, next week we'll tell this story,
but we'll have a lot of a lot of time
to talk about that. Lamar Jackson, by the way, is
the team All Pro quarterback, which generally means you're gonna
win the MVP.

Speaker 4 (11:07):
Have you actually have we actually looked at that. I mean,
I assume it's likely, but it feels like one of
those things that we all take for granted, and I
haven't seen anyone actually go back and check and see
how often it actually turns into being a true thing.
Maybe some people split their votes.

Speaker 3 (11:21):
Well, yes I have.

Speaker 2 (11:24):
It's never really come up where a guy gets more
votes than the other guy and then then it would flip.
But it's also a it's completely different circumstances now than
it's ever been because they never used to have to
vote for five different players, and so that that does
change the math where I guess you could split it.
I mean the Steve McNair Peyton Manning year, they didn't

(11:45):
have the exact same votes, so something changed up. It
could change up. You also have Saquon Barkley like being
thrown into the mix. Some people could say, like Nick
Wright pointed this out to me, like some people could say,
Lamar Jackson's the All Pro, but Josh Allen's the MVP.
That part doesn't make sense, but I could see. You
never know. If he won All Pro by one vote

(12:06):
or two votes, and more people had Lamar Jackson fourth
or fifth where they had Josh Allen second, you never know.

Speaker 3 (12:14):
Let's talk about the Steelers a little bit.

Speaker 2 (12:16):
Offensively, Russell Wilson played well in the second half of
this game. I did think what the Ravens did coverage
wise in the first half in general kind of confused him.
Like all year, he's not really going through his reads
very quickly, but he threw a lot of beautiful passes.
In the end, you look at his stats, it was
kind of like a Denver Broncos Russell Wilson game where

(12:37):
at the end you're like, oh, those stats are pretty good,
and yet you don't feel like he dominated the game.

Speaker 3 (12:41):
What did you think about RUSS.

Speaker 4 (12:43):
I mean, what I would say, more than anything from
the Broncos side, from the Steelers side, I should say
is that it did not feel like Mike tom And and
Arthur Smith trusted Russell Wilson at all until they had
no choice but to let him throw the football. I mean,
it was a very limited, very conservative game plan. They
punted multiple times on fourth and one and fourth and

(13:03):
two in the first half of this game, when I
think a lot of other teams would have been very
comfortable going for it, and they didn't even bring on
justin fields for those situations on fourth and short. You know,
certainly when you think about how should I play as
an underdog against a team that has an explosive offense,
hold the football, you know, don't put your defense in
a compromise position. And Mike Tomlin did not trust his

(13:25):
team to do even if oh he could go, He
did trust his team to get aggressive on fourth down,
and it backfired earlier in that game. And so it
really felt like Russ almost succeeded in spite of what
the Steelers' expectations were, Like I think they they in
this game. I think if the Steelers had won this game,

(13:45):
Mike Tomlin believed the best way they were going to
do it was we're going to slide on the mar Jackson,
We're going to get a turnover or two, and we're
going to have as little Russell Wilson in the mix
as possible. And it turned out to be the exact opposite.
They had a lot of Russell Wilson because they had
no choice. They were down a ton of points. He
played pretty well and the defense did absolutely nothing to

(14:06):
win in the game for most of the game. So,
as Russ enters free agency, as we're thinking about what
the quarterback situation looks like for this team next year,
nothing about what I saw tonight makes me think the
Steelers are desperate to have him back for another go
around next year, presumably at a larger salary.

Speaker 2 (14:22):
Yes, and yet they weren't. They weren't into bringing Justin
fields in. I thought they might, but then it was rewarded.
I mean, in the second half, he did everything that
you would want Russell Wilson to do.

Speaker 3 (14:33):
He moved the ball.

Speaker 2 (14:34):
Now, they did have a possession where they had a
chance to make it a one possession game, and they
stalled out, and you mentioned, you know, having, you know,
skipping and going for fourth and inches in the first half,
which is just brutal to have to go for it
in fourth and fifteen. And then I sent the tweet
out that's like everybody now like repeat after me, And

(14:56):
you thought I was making fun of you. I was
just doing it because we all have sent that tweet
at some point.

Speaker 4 (15:02):
Little too close to the vest for me.

Speaker 2 (15:04):
No, I didn't even know. I mean, yeah, you skipped
the early fourth down. I mean the Ravens also skipped
a fourth and two did to start the second half.
Maybe they thought that they had a twenty one nothing lead,
but they did go for fourth and about a foot
from their own forty late up by two scores, which,
considering where it was in the game and where it

(15:24):
was on the field, actually was more of a gutsy call,
if you want to say it, and was very smart
to go for.

Speaker 4 (15:30):
What I think happened is that they punted up was
twenty one nothing at that point. I believe when they
punted for midfield, and I think John Harbaught did the Oh,
I don't want to give them a spark. I don't
want to give them a short field. Get them back
in the game, and then the Steelers drove like ninety
eight yards for a touch anyway, then he's like, well,
screw this, there's no point in not giving them a spark.
I'm just going to go for it. And then they

(15:51):
went for it and got it with de Mark Andrew Steak,
where the Steelers I think actually had twelve men on
the field. They weren't even prepared for the Ravens going
for it on fourth down, which is not a right
signed for this coaching staff. You seem to be a
little hesitant when I alluded to the idea of Russell
Wilson not being back next year. You're about to push I.

Speaker 3 (16:08):
Just don't know.

Speaker 2 (16:09):
This is a team that is fine just running back
the same thing year after year and kind of accepting
where they are. I think it's why so many people
are frustrated. Smart Steelers fans and dumb Steelers fans like
angry young ones or whatever that are just oh, get
rid of this guy.

Speaker 3 (16:29):
It's the same thing every year. But I listened to
John Ledyard.

Speaker 2 (16:32):
He's great, and he's frustrated, and I think it's fair
to question a team that plays the same season over
and over and makes the same mistakes and sure everyone
says it's not Tomlin's fault because it's the offense and
what would you do with this roster and quarterbacks? And
I just think, well, Tomlin keeps hiring these offensive coordinators.
If he is unable to affect change on offense for

(16:55):
a long period, that's on him.

Speaker 3 (16:58):
He's the head coach. He plays the same certain so away.

Speaker 2 (17:00):
I also think the way he attacks training camp and
regular season practices should maybe be looked at because they
are the team that has known more than any team
to hit training camp harder. And you always you always
get on the teams like the Bengals who don't do
anything early and then they start slow. Well what about
the reverse, Like this is a team that's always in pads,
They're always a training camp, and they always stink in

(17:22):
December Like this is this is a I know they
won a few games in the in the past few years,
but they've collapsed down the stretch a number of times.
I don't know if it's a one to one thing,
but whatever he's doing isn't working. They they consistently play
their worst when they even have a decent team late
in the season. They did it during the Covid year.
They did it this season, and I don't know, like,

(17:46):
are you just fine with being the thirteenth best team
in the NFL every year?

Speaker 3 (17:49):
Because that's basically I.

Speaker 4 (17:52):
Will take the issue with this argument. They did go
two and six the year TJ. Watt got hurt to
start the season, and then they're hot at the end
of the year. I also think think a couple things
that factor in there. Our strength of schedule. The Steelers
played the hardest part of their schedule to finish the
season this year. Usually the final few weeks of the
year you're most likely to play your divisional games, and

(18:12):
the Steelers play in a very difficult division, so I
think you're playing stiffer competition late in the year. But
I did think your point is valid this question of
you know, is it should you be? Should you have
higher aspirations than just being a ten and seven team
and hoping you get in And the comparison I've seen

(18:33):
people make as an argument to fire Mike Tomlin and
we want Mike Tomlin is the comparisons to Andy Reid
at the end of his time in Philadelphia, which is
not good in terms of comparisons. Andy Reid was like
four and twelve his final year when he got fired,
he had made the decision to hire Wan Castillo to
be his DC, which went over disastrously. And there's this

(18:58):
like like like people have convinced themselves that Eagles fans
were happy to let Andy Reid leave and left with
goodwill and it was just time when Eagles fans have
been trying to fire Andy Reid for like five years
and been furious at any time anyone defended him saying
he was never gonna win. I think with Mike Tomlin,

(19:19):
like people have they've already taken like ready but defoeward
Like there's already that feeling of oh, like, we're never
gonna do it. And to me, I think that's probably unwarranted.
He's already done it in the past. We've seen him
win with a successful quarterback in the past. We're seen
him make the playoff runs in the past. We know
he can do it. To me, we're punishing him for

(19:40):
being good at this job. Like the reason, and I
would say the coaching element to me is this, how
many times do you see a player leave the Steelers
and play better? And how many times do you see
a player join the Steelers and play better. Just think
about this year. Just think about wide receiver. I mean,
Mike Williams was a functional part of his offense were

(20:00):
stretches after looking like he had never played football before
the Jets. Giont Johnson left the Steelers and was a
disaster in multiple spots this year. Wide receiver is maybe
the most coherent example. But this is not a franchise
where players are coming here and getting worse. And if
you have a guy who absolutely love if you think
Arthur Smith is the next great Steelers coach, should I guess?

Speaker 3 (20:23):
Go No, I don't.

Speaker 2 (20:24):
In fact, like he got way too much credit this year,
Arthur Smith, Like this was a bad offense all year.
This this their success rate running the ball was bad
all year. They were winning on these these deep balls,
which at no point did they have like a sustainable plan.
And to be clear, I think that Mike Tomlin is

(20:46):
a very good coach that should absolutely keep his job
and that any speculation about it in terms of him
getting fired is stupid. And any speculation on him getting
traded is because of Mike Tomlin's agent. So like you
can't you can't speak out of both sides of your
mouth if you're Mike Tummlin, because this this trade stuff
pops up every once in a while and he always

(21:08):
gets a new contract out of it, and he likes
getting new contracts.

Speaker 3 (21:11):
Why wouldn't you He just got an you just.

Speaker 4 (21:13):
Got a new contract with a no trade clause.

Speaker 2 (21:15):
But they but they threw that out there again, like it.
It came out again, and it doesn't come out for
no reason. It's maybe it's a waste of time to
talk about, because I don't really believe that the Ruinies
would ever consider giving him up, and they shouldn't. But
I also think it's fair to point out if you're
talking about the best coaches in the NFL, an organization

(21:35):
that like loses in the same sort of way year
after year in the playoffs and isn't competitive when they
make it, and hasn't won a game in a long time.
And in those six straight playoff losses bill that they've
had the lot, they've trailed at halftime by an average
of fifteen and a half points.

Speaker 3 (21:52):
I mean, so.

Speaker 2 (21:53):
It's it's it's not just it's not that they just
make it and they don't win. It's that they make
it and they're not competitive. And it reminds me of
the end of this season Bill because they lost those
three games against the best teams in the NFL ninety
to forty and they lost this game twenty one and
nothing at halftime, and yeah, the Bengals game was closer,
but that's like an eight and eight team. That's just

(22:15):
sort of who they are, and so that's got to
be frustrating for.

Speaker 4 (22:17):
Their For them, I'm just picturing like the Saints, where
their entire aspirations are to be the Steelers, like the
idea of being a nine or ten win team that
makes it to the playoffs every year and loses is
exactly what their best case scenario is right now. I
think we're both on the same page. I don't think
we think it's Mike Tomlin. But let me ask you, Greg,

(22:40):
let's try to be practical here. If you're not moving
on from Mike Tomlin, if you're not trading away Mike Tomlin,
what are you doing to break the cycle. What is
the move the Steelers make Because they tried drafting Kenny
Pickett that didn't work. That was clearly a let's try
to get our franchise quarterback on the cheap and then
we'll build around him with you know, more talent elsewhere.

(23:00):
They have talented dunk players on this roster. No question.
They went very cheap the cheapest quarterback situation late this
year that you know, got them back to where they were.
What's the swing you're taking here a quarterback? What's the move?

Speaker 2 (23:13):
It's like a different mindset offensively. It's not hiring Matt
Canada and Arthur Smith. I don't think Arthur Smith like
was good for this team.

Speaker 3 (23:24):
I don't.

Speaker 2 (23:24):
I wouldn't want to blow it up necessarily because the
offensive line I think started to finally make progress. Ye
have invested a lot in in that and there.

Speaker 3 (23:33):
There was progress.

Speaker 2 (23:35):
Then again, they were one of the worst running games
in the entire NFL. So I guess how good is
their offensive line?

Speaker 6 (23:42):
Like?

Speaker 3 (23:42):
They're their offense.

Speaker 2 (23:43):
Their their running game was basically based on their running
backs being good and breaking tackles, but they didn't really
have anything going in terms of the blocking scheme. I
don't know we should we should focus more on these
these ravens. I mean, you're getting you're getting Steve Simms
and and Thailand Wallis and Anthony Miller out there.

Speaker 4 (24:02):
We're gonna have plenty of times talk about the Ravens
in the weeks to come. I the thing that really
took me out in the first quarter of this game
was the broadcast when first drive of the game for
the Steelers and say, yeah, you're gonna see more Jalen
Warren today because Mike Tomblin said he has the hot
hand for them and running back and I looked it
up in Jalen Warren had six carries for twenty one

(24:23):
yards and no catches the prior week, and that that
was the hot hand for this offense was a running
back averaging I think like three and a half yards
of carry. It tells you sort of how dire things
got for this offense here at the end of the season.

Speaker 2 (24:35):
I mean, the thing is they got like the most
I could have expected out of Van Jefferson, in Calvin
Austin and at times Russell Wilson and Justin fields like
they were better.

Speaker 4 (24:47):
But but what you didn't answer my question? What's the
movie you're making?

Speaker 1 (24:51):
Are you?

Speaker 4 (24:52):
I think it has to be taking a quarterback or
is this something else?

Speaker 2 (24:55):
Well, sir, you have to always keep taking swings at quarterback,
I think every year in the draft until you have one.

Speaker 3 (25:01):
So I didn't love this idea.

Speaker 2 (25:03):
I'd rather have gone with Fields, like we'll never know
everyone that apologized after the move to Wilson. Ultimately, he
was dead last in the NFL in the last five
weeks in EPA per place. So I don't I don't know,
like how whether it would have been better or worse
in the end with with Russell Wilson or not. But

(25:23):
it's it would have to be like having a totally
different offensive, like modern mindset like that they just haven't had.
They have this weird idea that hey, we're the Steelers,
we want to run the ball. I think it plays
play to our defense, be conservative and and that's it.
And those are the types of guys he hired, like
Arthur Smith sold them on that vision. But when was

(25:46):
the last time Arthur Smith, like like had a consistently
good running team, like in terms of the talent that
he had, I don't.

Speaker 4 (25:53):
Know the year before. I mean to be fair, I
think there is an element of the Steeler, significant element
of this Dealers fan base that also wants that, Like
I think the when Steelers fans think about what they
want what their offense to look like, they wanted to
look like Jerome Bennis. They wanted to look like sure,
you know, Franco Harris. They wanted to be the teams
that are running because they're thirteen and four and they
have a great defense, and they are running in the

(26:15):
fourth quarter. They want smash mount football. I think there
was a subset that Caarac just wants to win, but
I think ideally that is what they want. So I
think they're sort of playing a element of fans service
by hiring Arthur Smith.

Speaker 3 (26:26):
Fair.

Speaker 2 (26:27):
That's absolutely fair. And like I said, I don't think
the Rooneyes are going to do anything. So we say
goodbye to what I think was the worst team in
the playoffs, the Steelers. When you lose four straight games,
I mean, I don't think it was. I think them
and the Texans were the contenders coming into the day.
They were not the contenders coming out of the day.
And yes, shout out to all the Ravens who got

(26:49):
the job done today, a da fe Aoway, even Nate
Wiggans who is maybe in single coverage to George Pickens
a little too often and was driving Patrick Claybond crazy.

Speaker 3 (26:59):
We were about it.

Speaker 2 (27:01):
Madam Buike had a nice game like they have a
lot of players that are playing better on defense. We'll
see if they're good enough next week. And you talked
about the Steelers.

Speaker 3 (27:12):
Yeah, like you've.

Speaker 2 (27:13):
Talked about the Steelers defense not being prepared enough. This
is the last time that we'll hear them this week.
But like Kirk kerk Street like doesn't know who the like,
how the playoff seeds work, and who's going to play
each other in the playoffs. And it's just like a
consistent it's a consistent pattern here.

Speaker 4 (27:33):
Get myself in trouble. No comment, No, yeah you can't.

Speaker 1 (27:36):
You can.

Speaker 4 (27:36):
Moving on all right?

Speaker 2 (27:37):
That is it from Baltimore, you know, before we take
a quick break. Of course, we're here in southern California
and in LA all heartbroken by the devastation and destruction
from the wildfires.

Speaker 3 (27:49):
Here.

Speaker 2 (27:50):
I was driving down the four or five pet pass
some of it today and it's crazy, it's still happening,
it's still horrifying, and families affected by these fires urgently
need support. You can help the American Red Cross respond
to and help people recover from these disasters by donating
today at Redcross dot org slash NFL again Redcross dot

(28:15):
org slash NFL we will be back after the break
In Houston.

Speaker 6 (28:23):
Stroud gets under center fourth and one at the seventeen
yard lot of the Charger. CJ hands off to mix
some money left.

Speaker 3 (28:30):
How's the fifteenth ted? Nextit across the five, Next look to.

Speaker 2 (28:34):
The pilot, Next sit to the hud zone.

Speaker 6 (28:38):
Celebrate mix it on fourth down, Peter and the Texans
have their lead extended.

Speaker 5 (28:49):
Seventeen yard touchdown run.

Speaker 4 (28:51):
I think you just started the h Town leap.

Speaker 2 (28:54):
That was Joe Mixon, that was Mark Vandermere and Andre
ware On k I l t thirty two to twelve.
A score of GOMI in the playoffs and.

Speaker 4 (29:07):
A scorey got me in a situation where it felt
like if any team was gonna win thirty to twelve
in this game, for most of the first half, it
felt like the Chargers were going to be that team.

Speaker 3 (29:17):
It was absolutely crazy.

Speaker 2 (29:19):
I almost can't believe looking at the final scores and
even the final numbers, where the Texans end up with
four hundred and twenty nine yards and the Chargers end
up with two sixty one, Like, I can't believe that's
how it ended, because it just didn't feel that way
for most of the game. And if you look at
the success rates for the two teams, they're actually pretty
similar for a lot of it. But that drive, and

(29:39):
I wanted to start there, Bill, was one of the
most surprising drives I've ever seen to see the twenty
twenty four Houston Texans. Maybe they're turning a new leaf
like in the in the actual New Year, run the ball.
I believe it was fourteen straight times to end that.

Speaker 4 (29:56):
Drive, thirteen so fourteen play. Drive it through the on
the first play and then ran it thirteen consecutive times
to finish up. So that's why they're not also in
the thirteen for thirteen club. It was thirteen for fourteen, Right.

Speaker 2 (30:09):
I have not been more surprised by a drive all season,
considering how in effective the Texans have been running the
ball all year, And yet at that point it was
like the Chargers defense, which were absolutely ready for this game.
It was a good defensive game. They just sort of
gave out and Houston was just much too much for them.

Speaker 3 (30:29):
And that place was rocking.

Speaker 2 (30:30):
And the Texans are going to the Divisional round for
the second straight year.

Speaker 4 (30:34):
Yes, And you know, I think there was an element
of being tired. They've been on the field so often
because their offense was either scoring really quickly or turning
the ball over really quickly or going three and out.
And I don't know what the play disparity was in
this game, and certainly the Chargers had a lot of
plays early before the Texans then took over and sort
of controlled the ball at that final drive at the

(30:57):
end of the first half. We could also talk about
as a you know, a season saving drive in some
ways for the Houston Texans. I mean, this game was there,
it was there for the taking for the Chargers. There
is a a version of this game where instead of
getting stuffed on third and one in the first drive,
they convert. They score a touchdown when they've been moving
the ball really effectively, Texans turned the ball over immediately,

(31:19):
give them a short field, They score another touchdown, They
get the ball back again after a Stroud they dropped
a Stroud interception, and then they get a Strad interception,
they have another short field, they score on that. It's
twenty one to nothing. I mean, they could have taken
over this game, and there's a lot of like, you know,
a lot of me filling in the blanks for this offense,
which is maybe undeservedly given that they really did struggle

(31:42):
for the majority of this game. But we see this
happen in games where you give a team a couple
of short fields and the game's over, and you know,
there would have been no thirteen play run, drive down
twenty one nothing. I think that the Texans defense did
such a heroic job of saving this game long enough
for the offense to finally get going, and once it did,

(32:03):
it felt like the Chargers didn't have many answers outside
of the occasional turnover.

Speaker 3 (32:08):
Yeah, that's all really well said.

Speaker 2 (32:12):
I want to blame the Chargers on one hand for
having in their first ten drives of the game under
one hundred and fifty yards, with three interceptions and a.

Speaker 3 (32:24):
Fumble that they picked up the fumble.

Speaker 2 (32:26):
And one third down six points in the one of
the field goals was a twelve yard drive that was
just you know, set up by one of those turnovers.
I want to blame the Chargers offense. But one of
the reasons I actually thought this was a good game.
It was obviously like a West of this game. That is,
you know, for those who are new to the show,
the early Saturday afternoon game, which our dear friend Chris

(32:50):
Westling dubbed West of which is when Andy Dalton and
the Bengals would traditionally lose, although at some point in
there they started playing the Texans, and the Texans just
took over that time slot and they've actually played in Yes.

Speaker 4 (33:04):
That was the jj WAT Pick six game. I think
was the turning point.

Speaker 2 (33:08):
That was the turning point. I was at a game
that brock Osweiler started against Connor Cook, which is in
the mix for the worst starting quarterback com you know,
matchup in the history of the NFL, certainly in the
twenty first century, which is you know, more about passing.

Speaker 3 (33:26):
And they won that game.

Speaker 2 (33:27):
It was the first ever home victory by the Texans.
At some point it switched to the Texans and they
own the slot. They are now six and two.

Speaker 4 (33:37):
What why why were you at that game of all games?

Speaker 2 (33:41):
For like a year or two, my old boss at
the NFL wanted me to get out on the road
more and they were sending.

Speaker 4 (33:47):
Me to they to playoff games.

Speaker 2 (33:51):
And yes I was the Houston Texans or Cincinnati Bengals
of NFL dot com column writers. I you know, I'll
respect Jeffrey Chidia, Judy Batista. They deserve their spot in line.
They were doing it, you know, all season long, and
so I was fourth in line. Maybe it was wish
as the other one, but yes, I would go to

(34:13):
the worst games usually of the weekend, and they went.
They won that game. There are now six and two
in these games. And for all and I know I'm
talking about here for although blame I want to put
on the Chargers defense offense. I just think this was
an incredible defense by the Texans, Like sometimes that really
can't happen. And for a while, the Chargers defense was
playing incredible this game. You mentioned the third and short

(34:35):
that they don't pick up, Well, who's making the stop there?
That was Kaylen Bullock, their young safety I believe was
in on that stop. It's passes defense. Darryl Stingley ends
up with five passes defense in this game. An incredible interception,
Kamari Lassiter has an incredible interception. Autry is making plays

(34:57):
all over the place. Will Anderson saved them early in
this game. Like they all just were taking turns, making
incredible plays, and they were just obviously better schematically and
talent wise than the Chargers offense was on this day.

Speaker 4 (35:12):
Yeah, and that's a surprise because the Chargers, whatever you
want to say about their offensive abilities, are a well
coached offense generally. But I think we saw a game
plan that really hit the weaknesses of the Chargers hard,
and that was a lot of twists with their star
edge rushers, So not just rushing them one on one
against these strengths of the Chargers their offensive tackle, a

(35:32):
lot of them getting them inside, getting them against the
offensive guards, getting them against the centers, getting them against
the running backs. That worked really well. There was a
lot of flush justin Herbert in this game. We saw
a lot of doubling of lad Bakkonki. Derek Stanley did
not travel in the slot with lad Bacconki. But this
was you know, they didn't play a lot of man

(35:52):
coverage in this game. They played a decent amount, but
it wasn't like they were, you know, the twenty sixteen
Patriots when he came to man coverage. But I think
there was that element of the same filosophy of Okay,
lad McConkie, We're going to try and double him with
our guys in the interior, get him a safety over
the top of La McConkie get a linebacker to help,
and then we trust Derek Stingley is going to takeovers
on his side of the field and shut them down.
And that was the key part of this game in

(36:15):
a lot of ways, is that the Chargers repeatedly tried
to go at Derek Stingley and time after time were rejected.
I mean, not only did Derek Stanley have a couple
of two interceptions in this game, one of which was
on a Will Distey drop, the other one on a
great play on a throw down field, But to me,
one of the biggest plays of the game was that
fourth down the Chargers went for where Lad McConkie is

(36:38):
not open. The Chargers have seven in protection to send
three guys out, and their only option was to throw
a pivot route to Quentin Johnston against Derek Stingley, an
all Pro cornerback, where not only did Quentin Johnston run
a half yard route on fourth and two where even
if he caught it, he would have been short of
the sticks, but then he also did that complete catch

(37:00):
and it was an incompletion as well. So just a
you know, just a if you can get your best
player against a wide receiver, three caliber receiver and on
a fourth down that's say win for you on defense.
So I think the Texans really gave the Chargers the
answers they wanted them to take, and then exploited those
answers with their best players.

Speaker 2 (37:21):
So Quinton Johnston, who had the best game of his
career last week, it really was the Quinton Johnson's game.

Speaker 3 (37:28):
I don't know what it was. It was like eight
for one, ninety seven or something. Insane. Didn't have a
catch on five targets.

Speaker 4 (37:34):
Today.

Speaker 2 (37:35):
To go to the rest of the Chargers receivers for
non lad mcconkee targets, they had forty five yards on
eighteen targets. McConkie goes nine for one to ninety seven
and one, including that incredible touchdown, And you can blame
that completely on all the other receivers. Justin Herbert obviously

(37:58):
bears funy of blame in this game, ends up with
four interceptions. It's more than he had all season long.
And yet I do think about that play. That's a
good example. It's their lack of talent to win a
one on one matchup. It's Quinton Johnston running a bad route.
You can't really blame Herbert there for throwing it to

(38:21):
him because he's got to assume his option right is
making it.

Speaker 3 (38:26):
That said that where.

Speaker 2 (38:28):
You could blame him a little bit on that play
maybe is you got seven into protect and I know
he hadn't been protected great that game. He doesn't try
to become a playmaker too often, like the ball was
still out of his hands quickly and seeing the matchup
that he had and there wasn't a lot of separation there.

Speaker 3 (38:46):
It's a split second decision. But what CJ.

Speaker 2 (38:50):
Stroud did well in this game more than anything I
thought was it was run the ball and make a
couple of plays to help turn this game around. And
when it's not going well for Herbert, that does stand
out that he doesn't do a lot of playmaking. Though
that's one pick you could knit here along with the
four interception.

Speaker 3 (39:08):
It's a tough week out here for Herbert the Herbert Hive.
I mean, it's going to be a tough six months.

Speaker 4 (39:13):
It was weird because he did do that more during
the regular season. That was one of the welcome benefits
of justin Herbert the shear was that he was we
anymore and it felt like that was something that he
was being encouraged to do by the Chargers, and I
want to go back. You know, it's Saturday night. I
want to go back on Sunday or more realistically maybe
Monday and watch this game again and see if those
opportunities were there. Figure they were. But the interceptions, Yes,

(39:38):
the Will Disley pick is not on Justin Herbert, but
I got three that are and that's the entirety he
had of all season that were bad decisions, bad throws.
I mean that first pick, every bit of a twenty
nineteen Josh Allen. We're all laughing on social media. What

(39:59):
is this guy doing? Pick after a interception from Justin
Stratt for for CD Strat, excuse me? You have you
know you're gonna take a shot. I understand that you're
throwing across your body, you know, from the right side
numbers to the left side sideline. No window is there.
Like the best case scenario is that's going in complete,

(40:21):
like just a bad decision, just the decision decision you
cannot make as a great quarterback, as a quarterback, expecting
me when a playoff game. And the disheartening thing is now,
I think we're gonna go back to this regular season
and people are gonna look at what Justin Herbert did,
and his numbers are not great this year. I mean,
he had a incredible interception rate, but his first down rated,

(40:43):
sharts per attempt, everything else was okay, some above average,
a little bit below average in some places. He took
too many sacks, especially sacks that got him injured, where
he wastly extending plays. There's going to be a real
reflection on Justin Herbert. I don't think they're going to
make any changes, obviously, but I think you know, there
was a lot of good will built up for Justin

(41:04):
Herbert over the course of this season.

Speaker 3 (41:07):
That was coming out hard. He's coming swinging for Herbert.

Speaker 4 (41:11):
What did I say here? That's crazy?

Speaker 3 (41:13):
This this man now he had four receptions.

Speaker 4 (41:14):
In the playoff. Can't be through the entire season. But
this was in the shoe all year. That was that
was propping him up all season was an incredibly low
interception rate, and that's unsustainable. We know.

Speaker 2 (41:26):
I thought he managed games really well all year. Their
offensive line was okay this year. Their running game was
miserable for the most part, and was miserable in this game.
One of the lowest success rates sixteen, yes, all season long,
they had one of the lowest success rates in the NFL.
And they couldn't run the ball today either outside of
that first drive. And even that first drive it ends

(41:48):
on a third and one that gets blown up.

Speaker 3 (41:50):
And it even.

Speaker 2 (41:51):
Reminded me of last week against like the Raiders, like
they couldn't they couldn't get a third and one early
in second and one third and one early in that game,
and that that was them all season.

Speaker 3 (42:01):
And so the running game it's stunk. It's not.

Speaker 2 (42:04):
It doesn't mean that it's an excuse for Herbert, but
they you know, Greg Roman without a running game is like,
what do you got here?

Speaker 4 (42:13):
Right? That's not what I was going to say, is
you know you bring in Greg Roman. That's what he's
there for. That's what he's supposed to do, is fix
your running game. And I understand this was not a
running game that had a Lamar Jackson as an active participant,
didn't have a Colin Kaepernick as an active participant, or
a Tyrod Taylor. They didn't have the quarterback run game
factored in. But Greg Rowman was still supposed to be
able to build a coherent run game around the pieces

(42:35):
he had, And I think We all love seeing JK.
Dobbins have a great start to the season, but he
had two one hundred yard games to start the year
and didn't have another one the rest of the way.
I mean, they were very inconsistent running the football and
that led to a lot of ways to drives and
in this game, Herbert misthrows. He made mistakes, got some
really good throws of course as well. It's not like

(42:56):
he was completely terrible, but you know, it felt like
they did not have the ability to rely on the
run game when they needed it.

Speaker 2 (43:06):
No, but the numbers, the numbers are crazy. Now if
you go through the four inner sevens. Yeah, that first
that first pick, terrible decision, but an awesome play.

Speaker 3 (43:14):
Out a Lassiter.

Speaker 2 (43:15):
Yeah, like these Texans cornerbacks, it's the best young secondary
in the league by far. I mean, that might be
the best cornerback duo in the league. It's in the
mix right now, Lassiter intingly, just just because just because
Stingley is that that good right now? Like they're in

(43:37):
the mix. But in terms of a young secondary, Okay,
that's fair the Steelers, but I'm including Jalen Petrie, who
is awesome this year and he's out he's out, and
I think is he out for the season.

Speaker 3 (43:47):
He's He's not gonna but Callen.

Speaker 2 (43:50):
Block's been great and like that reminds me of another
play from recent weeks, Like when he has a chance
to make the catch, he makes it. Now, you got
the Eric Murray pick six. That was more of just
Herbert's a little rushed, a little crowded in the pocket,
throws it a little high and it and it goes
through Maconkey's hands, but it's a high throw.

Speaker 3 (44:09):
They were forcing him to try to make touch passes.

Speaker 2 (44:11):
That really wasn't one of them, and that's not like
something he does that well. And the other interception, what
I'm trying to say is sometimes you have opportunities to
make an interception and you don't make them. Those weren't
the easiest ones ever, and they did make them. Whereas
the Chargers, for instance, as you mentioned, like second drive
of the game, they drop a potential Stroud interception. I mean, hell,

(44:32):
the Chargers did turn the ball over three times. The
first freaking play of the game is a fumble that
they force on a short catch like and it doesn't matter.

Speaker 3 (44:42):
The Texan defense just was ready for all of it.

Speaker 4 (44:45):
Yeah, I mean, yes, there was pressure in Justin Herbert's
lap on that overthrow for the pick six. It's also
a throw into the flat, Like you can dirt it,
you can put it in a place where it's not
going to be that they're going to be a short
catch or an incompletion. There's lots of things you can do.
What you cannot do is sell it over your wide
receiver's head. And this is not you know, this is

(45:05):
not Bonicks, this is not year one. Let's see what
this guy does. It's not Caleb Williams. This guy is
in what his fifth sixth is as a pro, like
he's on a second contract. He is getting the hype
as a superstar quarterback. Like, you can't make that throw.
You cannot miss that throw under any circumstances. That is

(45:26):
a like that that I cannot think of another quarterback.
I'm sure you'll sure someone clip for me tomorrow, but like,
that is a throw you cannot make as a franchise
quarterback in that situation, Like you have to be able
to either escape that pressure or be smart with the
football and smart with your placement. And he was not,
and it it basically ended the game as a contest.

Speaker 2 (45:46):
Yeah, out of playoff games. I think it was your
friend Seth Walder right that he put it out that
out of two hundred and fourteen playoff it was it
Shield that put this out that Justin Herbert was two
hundred and thirteenth in EPA per play So it's gotta

(46:08):
be a rough offseason. I think he's a top ten quarterback.
I think he played like a top ten quarterback this season.
He's absolutely fair through five seasons to think that the
promise of his rookie year that he was going to
be right there with the top guys in the league,
He's obviously not with the top guys in the league.
Can can he get there eventually? Yeah, Like it's possible,
but he obviously is not in that top tier group.

(46:30):
And yet despite all this, Bill like, this was absolutely
a game that I still thought the Chargers were going
to win when it was six to nothing late in
the second quarter. Let's take back. Let's think about where
the Texans were. They had the ball pretty much coming
out on their own goal line. Were they on the

(46:51):
two yard line? Everyone thought they were probably gonna like
take a safety there. Everyone's making the same joke like
here comes the safety CJ.

Speaker 4 (46:59):
Stroud, there was almost an intentional grounding call, right.

Speaker 2 (47:03):
That's what I was going to say, like, oh sorry,
that call to me or non call was almost as
big as the third and sixteen play where Stroud scrambles.
After that, he you know, trails after a bad snap
and hits the third and sixteen play to kickstart that

(47:24):
two minute drive. He is flushed, he's in the pocket.
He throws it out of bounds and when they showed
that replay, at least from that angle, it looked like
he was in the pocket to me, but it was close.

Speaker 3 (47:36):
Those are tough calls to make.

Speaker 2 (47:37):
They didn't make the call, but that would have made
it eight nothing with under two minutes to go, and
then clicking out instead, they get another chance. He has
a third and sixteen play and it's just like a
scramble play, and it was almost like that moment Bill CJ. Stroud,
like he couldn't think because he's just running after a
ball and the game is about to end. He's running

(47:58):
after it and he's just finally just makes a play
and gets a big first down, and after that it
was like he locked in and he was the CJ.
Stroud for the most part that you would want to see.
There were a couple of little blips, but like he
starts hitting a ton of inbreakers.

Speaker 4 (48:12):
Yeah. I actually went and looked at it on next Gen.
I tried to, like, you know, chart it out, and
I think it was the right call. I think it
was good to hear. It was either the right call
or it was close enough that I cannot fault them
for not making the call. And my first instinct was
that it was grounding. So I feel like not going

(48:33):
to put the refs down too much for that. But
I see what you're saying, and I don't disagree to
one extent. But when it's eight nothing and you're getting
the ball back, your instant goes, Okay, we can score
a touchdown and make it fifteen nothing and then we're
we're in great shape. But nothing the Chargers. Did you
think that they were going to score? That's that's the

(48:54):
only part that I find difficult to believe is that, Okay,
if it was going to be a defensive touchdown, maybe
that would have gotten a fifteen. But it felt like
even when they got short fields in this game, they
were not able to do anything with them, and so
to me, you know, the defense was gonna have to
win this game, and once, like you said, one Stroud
hits that play. It felt like so much of what

(49:16):
the Chargers were doing was just taking away stuff over
the top. I think they were playing, you know, very
conservative shells on defense. I think they wanted their pass
rush to get home and to be the focal point
of the defense. They did lose Denzil Perriman early in
this game, but there's not a great, you know, coverage linebacker.
He's more of a run plucking linebacker. So I don't

(49:38):
think that made a big difference. But like you said,
Nico Collins just got open over and over and over
again on in breaking rounds. They had Christian Fulton covering
him a lot, and it felt like Fulton was not
up to the task necessarily. But I think in the
big picture, the thing I would say is just this
is a very top heavy Texans team. They have some

(49:59):
very mediocre, play meaningful roles. They are some guys who
have been banged up because of injury were playing more
than they should because of injuries. Like they have their stars,
they have Collins, they have Stroud, They have the defensive
ends with Hunter and Anderson, they have Stingley, and then
to a lesser extent, they have maybe maybe not to
a lesser extent, but they have Lassiter and they have
Bullock in the secondary, and all of those guys were

(50:20):
awesome in this game. And that is the difference. The
Texans were able to attack the weakest parts in the
Chargers roster, and so many times the Chargers were stuck
trying to attack the strengths of this Texans team and
were not able to do so.

Speaker 2 (50:35):
Will Anderson ended up with six quick pressures in this game.
So that's under two and a half seconds. Like, that's wow,
that's just like an epic performance. Seven overall, both Daniel
Hunter and Deniko Autry both had five pressures in this game,
and three for Hunter were quick.

Speaker 4 (50:52):
So do you remember in the two plays before the
crazy Mconkee touchdown?

Speaker 2 (50:57):
Okay, let's play it. So this is one of the
crazy four play sequence. Our producer Eric had some fun
putting this together. Just sit back and enjoy.

Speaker 6 (51:06):
Empty packfield for Herbert first down from the charge with
her Ause, these looks like he's coming.

Speaker 4 (51:12):
Three receivers to.

Speaker 6 (51:13):
The left side, watched out of the field as these
drops back. Here comes well co terminator with a second
Herbert second and seventeen from the charger.

Speaker 4 (51:21):
Twenty three. Here's Herbert in the backfield again. Mario cuts
back there. They brassed Herbert for another sack.

Speaker 3 (51:27):
Back to back.

Speaker 6 (51:29):
This is an onslaught by the Texans defensive front third
and forever, third.

Speaker 3 (51:35):
And twenty six down, twenty three to six. Herbert the
throne steps up in the pocket.

Speaker 5 (51:42):
Mclakey with a grab and mccaukey in the race is
fifty forty mccaukey thirty twenty ten touchdown. Chargers on a
third and twenty six eighty six yard touchdown Dicker.

Speaker 6 (51:59):
The kicker between the hashes with the spot Jake K.
Scott will hold as the Chargers get the block. Kick
here and it's patted down by Ticker.

Speaker 4 (52:13):
The Texans are.

Speaker 3 (52:14):
On the move with it.

Speaker 6 (52:15):
It's still alive, being brought back across the thirty twenty
ten DiAngelo Russ all the way to the house as
the Texans get too.

Speaker 2 (52:26):
Unbelievable. Yes, that was the four place sequence sack sack.
It's twenty three to six, by the way at this point,
like early in the fourth quarter, long Maconkeye touchdown that
was for eighty six yards, A great throw by Herbert.
I mean, it could have gone either way, but it
got through Maconkey's so freaking good.

Speaker 3 (52:44):
He ends up nine for one ninety seven. And then yes, the.

Speaker 2 (52:48):
Blocked extra point, which I don't know how the Nickelodeon
crew was on it, but I think it confused the
regular CBS crew of like, wait does this count?

Speaker 4 (52:56):
Confuse the players.

Speaker 2 (52:57):
As to either And I think if it gets past
the line of scrimmage it doesn't count. But it doesn't
matter because it's blocked before the line of scrimmage and
then they return it and it would have been a
ten point game. Like you said, I don't think the
Chargers defense was gonna come back enough in this game.
But that's about as wild a four play sequence as
you will ever see.

Speaker 4 (53:17):
That was fun, Yeah, And I think it's an example
of everything you might want to confirm about the Chargers offense.
I mean, first two plays, two just immediate sacks. I mean,
just no protection whatsoever. I would guess the first is
on Justin Herbert. It looks like he's hot off the
right side there. Again, I want to see what the
tape says, but it looks like there's three people coming

(53:39):
to that side, so he should be hot. Doesn't have
an answer. It takes a sack immediately from Will Anderson.
Second play, nobody blocks anybody. It feels like four people
break through. And then just In Herbert saying, screw it.
I'm just throwing it as hard as I can to
the only receiver I trust, and either he's gonna come
down with it or I'm gonna throw a pick. But
I don't want to get hit on this play. And
then the Dicker play, which Dicker is going to get

(54:01):
a ton of criticism for knocking the ball down. If
you see JK. Scott on this play, he sees the
Texans recover it and does not break into anything more
than the lightest of jobs. I think he thought the
play was over. I think other players on the Chargers
team thought this play was over. It was like, what
did it?

Speaker 1 (54:19):
Was?

Speaker 4 (54:19):
The fair kick? What did they run a couple of
weeks ago.

Speaker 3 (54:23):
Yes, the Chargers where they had the free kick free
kick kick?

Speaker 4 (54:27):
Yes, yes, yes, they felt like the opposite of the
free kick, where like the free kick was. You know,
these Chargers are geniuses. The special teams were so well prepared.
This was the exact opposite. It felt like they were
not prepared for the situation whatsoever, and it came back
to bite them and cost them two points at the
worst possible time.

Speaker 2 (54:43):
Yes, and they didn't do anything when they got the
ball again anyways. And they also couldn't get off the
field as the Texans are just.

Speaker 3 (54:52):
Running the ball over and over and over.

Speaker 2 (54:55):
I will say I thought of a camp today for
Ladi McConkie, just in terms of how people talk about him.
I was convinced after Nico's kind of breakout year that
like coming into this year, that he was still weirdly undervalued,
that that contract was one of the best contracts in
the entire NFL. And because he's like a top ten
type of receiver, and I don't think people quite saw

(55:17):
him that the way that Texan's knew and he is.
I mean we saw that again when he's on the
field this year. He is absolutely electric. There's nothing that
he can't do. He ends up with seven for one,
twenty two and one. He can do it all. I
think lad McConkey is going to be a top ten
NFL receiver. There's this weird thing because he's so small
that people just immediately like, Oh, as long as you
get someone with him, he'll be fine. What doesn't he do?

(55:39):
He wins on the outside, He wins contested catches. He
is electric in terms of his short area quickness, but
he has long speed. If you watch the second half
of this season, there's so many catches like that where
he is leaping. He's not mossing guys because of his size,
but he's winning at the catch point. As long as
he stays healthy, and he stayed healthy this year year,

(56:01):
I don't see why he isn't a guy that can't
put up even better numbers than he did this year
and they were absolutely electric, and you can build a
passing game around him. It's just you need more than
just one guy. You need like Nico needs this year.
His guys are hurt. You need to get more guys
around him. But Lad McConkey is that good. He's one
of the better like rookie receiver seasons we've seen in

(56:23):
a while. That the problem is he's surrounded by all
these other great rookie receivers.

Speaker 4 (56:27):
That's a tough part, though, is that he did this
with nobody around him this year, and that's the big
off season project for the Chargers is getting more playmakers,
whether it be a running back, whether it be a
tight end, whether it be hopefully at wide receiver. It
stinks because you're basically riding off the first round pick
the prior regime used on Quinton Johnson and sort of
not relying on him.

Speaker 3 (56:46):
They tried to make it work this year.

Speaker 4 (56:48):
He was he was okay, you know, he had some
terrible games. That Ravens game I think was really awful.
I don't think you want to run it back next
year needing Quentin Johnson to be your wide receiver too.
I think if he's in Nicks, it's fine. But I
think they so many teams are going to try and
get t Higgins, but they need somebody else who could

(57:09):
win on the outside. So Talkie can be you know,
poor man ceed Lamb on the inside.

Speaker 3 (57:14):
Sure. And but because yeah, that's a fair comparison.

Speaker 2 (57:17):
I mean, he's obviously not going to be as physical,
and maybe it is the size and maybe because he
struggled staying healthy at Georgia and it felt like every
game he was kind of limping to the sideline this year.
But then you look at what he actually just did
and I couldn't be more impressed. I would absolutely take
him in a redraft over Marvin Harrison Junior, Roma Doonzi.
It's not even close because this tape matters more and

(57:40):
to me, he showed wide receiver one NFL tape. I
would still take Brian Thomas over him, Like I love
Brian Thomas. My Lak Neighbors is awesome. So whatever you could,
you could choose. But like he's He's that's not bad dude.

Speaker 4 (57:50):
Being being right up there with Lak Neighbors and Brian
Thomas is not exactly any.

Speaker 2 (57:54):
Right, And I wouldn't argue, like if you were like this,
this guy fits what we want to do. Like he
he is absolutely a dude. So is Nico Collins, so
is CJ.

Speaker 3 (58:02):
Stroud.

Speaker 2 (58:02):
I hope, I hope he locks in a little bit.
One thing that really struck me was a really key
sequence at the end of the first half after the
Texans scored their first touchdown. They're hitting all those Nico
Collins in breakers. They get one for a touchdown, the
Chargers get the ball back. They're trying to The Chargers
actually took what I thought was a smart time out

(58:24):
late in the in the Texans drive to try to
save themselves time and it paid off. They have a
decent amount of time, but they go three and out
and they give the ball right back to the Texans
who get a field goal. That was really keyed by
a CJ. Stroud scramble, and that was the first big
scramble and he never scrabbles, and Demico Ryans was shown
on the sideline at that point yelling, that's.

Speaker 3 (58:46):
What I'm f and talking about.

Speaker 2 (58:48):
That's what I'm ef and talking about, and he was
so happy that Stroud just finally ran because he's so
just loath to run all season. And then the second
half after the game, he really ran a lot. The
dude can't slide. I don't know what's up with that,
but it was a big part of this game, him
picking up first downs and then just kind of like
falling forward in a way that made him look like

(59:10):
he was going to get hurt.

Speaker 4 (59:11):
Still counts, still counts. So you don't break your ankle sliding.
It's good. I mean, that's never going to be the
focal point of his game, but it gives you the
opposing team something to think about. I guarantee the Chargers
did not come into this game thinking Okay, we have
to be prepared for the possibility of spying CJ. Stroud,
like we can control them in the pocket. We're good.
That never came up and it absolutely mattered. And now

(59:32):
whoever they play next week has to be prepared for that.
They have to think, okay, like CJ. Stroud's going to
go if we don't have eyes on him. That's going
to change the way they rush the passer, are going
to change the way they play coverage. It opens up
a lot of things. There's the reason that a lot
of the best quarterbacks in football are devastating scramblers because
it is a button you can press that picks up
easy yards, helps you convert third and longs, and you know,

(59:56):
changes the way people cover you. On defense, What did.

Speaker 3 (01:00:01):
What did you think?

Speaker 2 (01:00:02):
Like?

Speaker 3 (01:00:03):
Overall?

Speaker 2 (01:00:04):
Does this give you optimism that the Texans offense specifically
could play well enough to win another game because the defense,
this is one of the best defensive performances you could
possibly have to ask this again is too much, but
they could. They could be the best defense left in
the playoffs if they just went on a tear.

Speaker 3 (01:00:27):
I'm not expecting them to be.

Speaker 2 (01:00:28):
I'm just saying, like We've seen that happen a defense
gets really hot. Now can the offense do you think
play well enough to give them a real chance to
beat these better teams.

Speaker 4 (01:00:41):
They prove that they could do it for a half
or for a little over a half of football. They
were incredible on offense. Outside of the turnovers, which they
lost the fumble and they nearly threw an interception to
Derwin James. They tried their best. It was more of
a good play by Derwin James and a throw by CJ. Stroud.

(01:01:01):
But this offense has been so inconsistent and so frustrating
all season. They've been stuck in third and long so
many times, and eventually they're going to hit a couple
third and longs, and they did in this game. But
to me, they were They were so bad ely in
this game, like they could have thrown a couple interceptions,
they lost a fumble, They looked like they weren't on
the same page. Like Stroud's throws. Nobody was even near

(01:01:24):
them early in this game.

Speaker 2 (01:01:27):
He seems as streaky as any quarterback in the league.
That he can be in his own head where he
just can't think straight and then like something happens, and
then he clicks in and he's CJ. Strouded again for
the rest of the game or for a couple of quarters,
and they have some good drives, but I still have
my doubts. I mean, even during that second half run
where they were coming back, you know, they had the fumble,

(01:01:50):
they had a second and forty situation which you don't
see too oft. They also had a second and one
at the four yard line where they ended up settling
for a field goal. That was a four play, one
yard drive where they go backwards. That was like, so
even during this run, I don't know, it's hard. It's

(01:02:11):
a little hard for me to see this offense getting
it going. But you have a quarterback that you have
a chance.

Speaker 4 (01:02:17):
But I had no faith in them being good on
offense heading into the postseason, and now I'm still skeptical.
But at least I saw them be good for a half.
That's a half more than I had seen from them
for the vast majority of this season against good football teams.

Speaker 3 (01:02:34):
And the vibes are good.

Speaker 2 (01:02:35):
Let's actually listen just quickly to uh Will Anderson post
game with Omar Ruiz.

Speaker 5 (01:02:41):
Congratulations Will that one game season continues, yes, sor it does.

Speaker 4 (01:02:45):
Thank you, let's go take.

Speaker 2 (01:02:49):
I love a little bit of that. I also love
the locker room, which we dote have clearance for that.
Demico Ryans comes in and one of the first things
he's as to the team is how about that bye week?
In reference to Rex Ryan. A lot of the players
were talking about some comments that I wasn't even aware
of until then that Rex Ryan said it was gonna

(01:03:11):
be until recently, yeah, that that was going to be
a bye week. But that was that was a rallying
cry for this team. The the dismissal from your colleague.
I know you can't you can't talk.

Speaker 4 (01:03:23):
I would never I would never comment on that. I mean,
we saw the who was at the Vikings and Lions,
the Rams have the the Kevin O'Connell. We're going to
see you in you know in two weeks.

Speaker 2 (01:03:35):
Dan Campbell is the one who said it, what is this?
What is this second hand like trashtock that I've never
heard of, like secondhand trash like Rex Ryan.

Speaker 3 (01:03:42):
I get, it's just like someone from the media. You
can yell at the media, people.

Speaker 2 (01:03:45):
Do that, but this was Dan Campbell that said see
you in two weeks, but somehow that they're they're mad
at Dan Campbell.

Speaker 4 (01:03:51):
It feels like we're finding very innocuous stuff to push
back on or even even coleneral damage, like like you know,
I I can ended up as bull to more material
for a different team. I trace this back to the
Tom Brady everyone says we suck comment where it turned
No one could possibly find anyone saying the Patriots sucked

(01:04:12):
that year, but I'm sure there was like someone on
Reddit saying that they sucked and that was enough for
Tom Brady.

Speaker 2 (01:04:17):
Well, they'll have plenty more people to find as doubters
going into next week. Before we get out of here,
Let's let's at least we'll hear from Justin Herbert. I
fear for this tall, handsome man's off season.

Speaker 7 (01:04:33):
Yeah, it's tough. You know, I let the team down
and you can't turn over the ball like that and
expect to win and put the team into a tough
position there with four turnovers like that. So you know,
the defense hung to off. They got some turnovers, they
gave us opportunities. But I just have to be better. Nope,
you know, it's just for me to protect the ball
and be better about that you know, it was aggressive
downfield and you got to do a better job of

(01:04:54):
getting the ball out throwing it away or better ball placement.

Speaker 4 (01:04:57):
So that's on me.

Speaker 2 (01:04:59):
Some of the numbers just crazy, like over ten yards,
six for seventeen against pressure.

Speaker 3 (01:05:04):
He started out one for ten, He started.

Speaker 4 (01:05:06):
Out one of eleven. The eleventh was the pick six. Yeah,
I mean, listen, he's a I don't want to be
part of this justin Herbert culture war. I have felt
the same about him for several years. I think he
is very talented. I think the results are not always there.
I think he has the ability to be a franchise quarterback.

(01:05:28):
He has never had a season as good as many
of his peers in that draft class. It's not make
him a bad quarterback, but we have been sitting here
for many years now waiting for him to have an
MVP caliber season and he's never really come close. And
that's fine, but I think we have to be realistic
about what the guy is versus what I think we
want him to be or hoping he's going to be.

Speaker 3 (01:05:50):
Not herbobeast.

Speaker 2 (01:05:52):
Yeah, So the Jim Harbaugh initial season for the Chargers
somehow ends up feeling a little more similar how a
lot of Chargers seasons ended.

Speaker 4 (01:06:04):
You take it if you were a Chargers fan this
time last we said you're going to the playoffs.

Speaker 2 (01:06:10):
Of course, they won a couple games at the end
of the season. The game against the Broncos was great.
I mean it was a step forward. The schedule was easy,
and we'll we'll get harder. But they definitely took a
step forward. They were a disaster last year and so
to make the playoffs at all is a big step.
But they were road favorites here and they did not

(01:06:30):
get it done. You were one of my favorites.

Speaker 3 (01:06:32):
Bill.

Speaker 2 (01:06:33):
I appreciate you coming on for the first time we've
ever done this like a Saturday night playoff recap, and
appreciate everyone who came into the chat. A lot of
people watching live got to check out the Bill Barnwell podcast.
Where else A You're going to be this week around

(01:06:53):
the NFL? I mean around the Horn?

Speaker 3 (01:06:54):
Oh there there's a forty in slip.

Speaker 4 (01:06:58):
Yes, I'll be on around the Horn this week, probably
talking about Justin Herbert some more, probably Sports Center this weekend.
We will see plenty of plenty of stuff to discuss here.

Speaker 2 (01:07:10):
And in the ESPN plus everyone.

Speaker 3 (01:07:13):
Sure, as I say, it's worth it just for Bill.

Speaker 2 (01:07:16):
You just it's worth it for Bill and the Australian
Open like Court fourteen Ky Query match that I'm I'm
gonna watch if he's still playing, although he was down
two sets when I went into this.

Speaker 3 (01:07:30):
Let's get out of here. Thank you, Eric.

Speaker 2 (01:07:32):
We will be back on Sunday Night recapping those three games.
It will be with Patrick Claybonn, Nick Shook maybe a
special guest. Thanks again as always to Will Barnwell. Yes,
when the Chargers are charging right out of the playoffs,
you know football is back.

Speaker 3 (01:07:47):
See a Sunday
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