Divisional Round Sunday Recap: Rams Escape Caleb's Heroics and Patriots Handle Houston

Gregg Rosenthal is joined by Patrick Claybon and Nick Shook to recap the Divisional Round action between the Rams and Bears in Chicago followed by the Texans and Patriots in Foxborough (34:55). 

Note: time codes approximate.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome to NFL Daily, where I don't think Caleb Williams
is gonna make another life changing play again this season,
but you never know, Like at this point, he makes
the impossible possible. I'm Greg Rosenthal in the Chris Westling
podcast studio. I'm with my friend Patrick Clayback.

Speaker 2 (00:24):
Nick Shook is joining us from Cleveland. The Divisional round
was a banger. Conference Championship weekend is gonna have a
lot to live up to, Nick Shook. We know what
the championship games are gonna be, and yes, the Bears
are not gonna be.

Speaker 1 (00:40):
Involved in it.

Speaker 2 (00:41):
And yet even though they lost in this game, I
still can't like move past that one last Caleb movement
that he gave us earlier tonight.

Speaker 3 (00:49):
Yeah, it's only right that it ended that way.

Speaker 4 (00:51):
Of course, you don't want, you know, Bears fans to
have their hearts broken, as they too often have, But
it's only right that they had another miraculous play on
a fourth for gotta have it situation that pays off
and gives them one last thrill to basically put a
caper on what was a thrill filled twenty twenty five season,
The great debut for the Ben Johnson Era and plenty

(01:12):
to look forward to for this fan base.

Speaker 5 (01:14):
In classic no No, No, No, Yes form where Caleb
instantly starts to retreat and spins back and it's like,
oh no, it's all gonna be for naught, and then
magic that ultimately fizzles out. But living in those moments
is what makes this whole enterprise.

Speaker 2 (01:29):
Yes so special, I know, And I got Eric Roberts,
he's recovered. We love you, Eric from that that thing
we won't talk about that happened on Saturday, involving your
team yelling at me. It's like, we're gonna get to
that play. We're gonna talk about the play. But sometimes
plays and themes of a season we can't even wait
to get into. And Caleb Williams and these plays that

(01:50):
he's made at the end of these games.

Speaker 1 (01:52):
To me are like the number one theme of this season.

Speaker 2 (01:55):
And yet it was the Rams, resourceful as ever, who
found a way to get it done in that cold for.

Speaker 3 (02:03):
The rookie Harrison Mivas on the hold of Eathan Evans.
Here it comes to send the Rams to Seattle for the.

Speaker 6 (02:10):
NFC Championship game.

Speaker 7 (02:13):
It's good.

Speaker 8 (02:17):
To Rams win.

Speaker 3 (02:18):
It's twenty to seventeen in over time.

Speaker 1 (02:25):
A great call by our friend JB.

Speaker 2 (02:27):
Long, who's making that long flight back from Chicago on
Sunday night with our friend Maurice Jones Drew, and they're
going to be making another flight up the coast to
Seattle for the NFC Championship game next Sunday.

Speaker 1 (02:45):
Harrison mevs.

Speaker 2 (02:47):
Before getting bleeped on NBC after the game that was controversial,
finishes out a crazy game that had a little bit
of everything, twenty to seventeen the Rams win. I'm going
to do something different here, Patrick and Nick. We're each
going to have one overarching thought, Oh my God, of

(03:08):
this game, like a takeaway before we get into everything.
I'm putting you on the spot, what is your takeaway
from this entire affair?

Speaker 5 (03:18):
Okay, so around eighty plays for the starters on both teams,
I think you altered the results on fifteen of those
individual plays get a different end result. It's equal parts
frustrating as well as fantastic because those are the stakes
in a single elimination playoff game, and I hope, in
our everlasting search, Greg are for that one particular.

Speaker 9 (03:37):
Thing to take away from the game.

Speaker 5 (03:39):
We pull back our focus and we're able to turn
the resolution up and see that the forest is the trees,
the individual aspects that make all of this.

Speaker 2 (03:48):
Well, that's why I'm getting three different takeaways to start,
just three umbrella takeaways.

Speaker 1 (03:53):
As we get going, what about you shuk.

Speaker 4 (03:56):
This was a classic case of a football game that
was included many phases. It included a first half in
which the Bears didn't capitalize on what I thought was
a better half of performance than their opposition, the Rams.
Yet you're tied at ten. It's basically a slog of
a third quarter, early fourth quarter. The Rams finally find
their rhythm, get into the end zone, and it takes
a miracle for the Bears.

Speaker 3 (04:16):
Naturally.

Speaker 4 (04:17):
I think that it was a perfect example of how
football is truly a fourth quarter and sometimes extra period
story and why it is the most popular sport in
this nation.

Speaker 2 (04:24):
Yeah, and the reason I started even with that, like
mentioning that Caleb play was Yet, I mean, Roger Goodell
has to be sad to see this. Caleb Williams, Ben
Johnson team go. Because we've been doing this a while,
there's never been anything quite like the end of this
Bear season.

Speaker 1 (04:43):
Not really.

Speaker 2 (04:44):
I mean, if you go back to the Week sixteen
game against the Packers and how that ended. I mean,
first of all, he has the most you know, comeback
fourth quarter wins in the history of the league, so
literally that hasn't happened. But the combination of what he
did in Week eighteen and then throughout these playoffs in
Week sixty, like, I can't remember a ride we've ever

(05:05):
been on like this. But my takeaway, so I guess
that was kind of too. I'm jamming it in there.

Speaker 1 (05:10):
That's what you do as a host.

Speaker 2 (05:13):
My takeaway is that, like the Rams defense kept giving
Matthew Stafford enough chances to eventually do the thing that
Matthew Stafford does. And I think that gets to your
point too, to both of your points that it is
a fourth quarter, overtime game. It had so many swings,
but we're gonna get to the Patriots Texans. I should
have mentioned the AFC championship that happened is set as well,

(05:33):
but I found some similarities here where the two leading
MVP candidates both didn't play their best games on Sunday.
But it is a team sport, and particularly for Stafford,
who I think had his worst game of the entire
season today, he was picked up by his defense like
he's picked up his teammates and his defense so many

(05:56):
times this season. And eventually the play calling in the
fourth quarter from Sean McVay and then the execution, especially
by Stafford in the overtime drive. They kept giving him
chances and eventually he did the thing that Matthew Stafford
does and he steals your soul.

Speaker 5 (06:10):
Yeah, it was great performances, especially the entire Bears secondary.
Deshaun Wright had better coverage on Devonte Adams for almost
the entire game for a crucial great throw and catch
from Stafford to Adams on the game winning mevs.

Speaker 9 (06:24):
Excuse me MeVis field goal drive.

Speaker 5 (06:27):
I've been thinking about it all night and I loved
it on the first try. But in terms of like
the game by Jakwon Brisker, the game by Kyler Gordon,
it was over and over again the Bears defense putting
Stafford in these disadvantageous positions were you know, maybe throwing
the balls not the right circumstance, but they're gonna dance

(06:49):
with who brung him and he's been great all year.

Speaker 9 (06:52):
Just a great defensive performance tonight. They came up a
touch shot.

Speaker 2 (06:55):
You made a face shook when I said I thought
it was the worst Stafford performance of the of the season.

Speaker 1 (07:01):
Yeah, why do you disagree?

Speaker 3 (07:02):
You're wrong?

Speaker 4 (07:03):
His worst performance was in Atlanta at the end, near
the end of the season. There was a terrible game
they had that day. This was not close to that.
But what this was a great example of why the
playoffs are so captivating, and especially this year, because this
game mirrored a lot of what we saw in Denver yesterday,
which was coaches making adjustments and basically reacting to what
one team dictating to the other and then then taking

(07:23):
the power back. And in this instance, it was Dennis
Allen blitzing Matthew Stafford off the edge with the defensive
backs giving him looks that he wasn't accustomed to or
wasn't comfortable with. They couldn't throw the football even though
outside of their first early scoring drive, and they stuck
to it. And then it's Sean mcvagh getting the halftime
and almost listening to the NBC halftime show, and they're
all sitting at the desk, Jason Garrett, Tony Dungee, and

(07:43):
they're all just like, run the ball more.

Speaker 3 (07:45):
And what did you do?

Speaker 4 (07:46):
They come out, they run the ball more and they
get back on track a chess match, a back while
playoff football.

Speaker 3 (07:51):
So good, we.

Speaker 9 (07:52):
Got laid to the fourth course.

Speaker 2 (07:53):
Yeah, I know, I think I don't know if he
was watching the halftime live. Maybe they played it to
him like right at the end of the third quarter
or so, because it's it still took him a while. Yeah,
there was like a seven drive sequence where they had
eighty nine total yards on thirty one place six first
downs in a seven drive sequence, and at that point
of the game they had thrown the ball thirty four times,

(08:18):
they had run it eleven times. Maybe he actually was
on Blue Sky, because that's the moment where I sent
out something of like, yeah, they've despite having like a
fifty four percent success rate so far to that point
in the game, it would been thirty four to eleven
in terms of passes to runs after that point when
I sent that out. Not taking credit, but you just

(08:39):
never know, I mean, causation correlation.

Speaker 1 (08:41):
Who knows.

Speaker 2 (08:42):
They only threw the ball twelve times, they ran it
twenty times, and they had a classic Kyron Williams and
Blake Korum drive that ended up resulting in a touchdown
that also included the classic puka akua fourth down play.
Let's actually listen to a question from the press conference
after the game. How about our Jordan rod Rieg in

(09:04):
the press conference room. He's not throwing away a questions,
He's getting to the meat of the matter.

Speaker 1 (09:09):
Is there anything to take from tonight going so pass
heavy in the elements against a really good Dakeasy g Yeah,
you know what I think?

Speaker 10 (09:15):
What I I kind of mentioned it, I could have
done a much better job. And then I did think
once we were able to get some success, we settled
into a little bit of a different approach, you know,
being able to lean on the run, and then when
we were throwing it, picking up the tempo a little bit,
and I thought Matthew had a bunch of success keeping
the ball in play and guys made their plays, and
so I think overall, what I would say Jordan is

(09:36):
I did not like the feel for the flow of
the game that I had outside of the first you
know series, where our guys did a great job defensively.
It kept us in it in spite of how you know, poorly,
you know, poor of a job I did for our group.
But like I said, you know, I'm I'm really grateful
for this group being able to find a way stick
with it and be able to overcome some bad coaching

(09:56):
by me tonight.

Speaker 5 (09:57):
You know, you'd like to have players who are coach
and you know that you look at the history of
Jordan Rodriy coaching up Sean McVeigh in the past. We
had an opportunity to see that past success of paying
off there and that is It's.

Speaker 2 (10:11):
True because I think you had a better question because
it was Jordan asking him that question in that spot
and he understood.

Speaker 1 (10:17):
It was a great answer.

Speaker 2 (10:19):
And yeah, they get the ball back in the start
of the fourth quarter, like once again, their defense gets
the ball back. As as much as I want to
credit the Bears defense and Dennis Allen for having an
incredible game plan getting pressure throughout, Kevin Byerd actually told
Kimberly Martin of ESPN before the game, their whole plan

(10:42):
was to make Matthew Stafford one dimensional and make him
throw the ball forty or fifty times.

Speaker 1 (10:48):
That's what we want to do.

Speaker 2 (10:49):
He said that before the game, you know, publicly, and
that is kind of what they made him do.

Speaker 1 (10:54):
But the Rams.

Speaker 2 (10:55):
Defense kept getting the ball back as well. They force
upon after half time, they intercept Caleb Williams late in
the third quarter two they force another punt. That's when
the Rams get the ball back at their own nine
yard line and go on a fourteen play ninety one
yard drive that included a lot of runs, yes, but
a couple a third down conversion on a third and

(11:17):
six to Pukinakua, and then there was that fourth down.
And we're sitting in the newsroom and if you're watching,
you can see the fourth and one play to Pukinnakua
where it's like it's it's the call that the Rams
go to all the time on fourth and one that
sort of end around that pooka Akua gets the ball.

(11:38):
It's the same one. Jordan and I talk about it
all the time, and Patrick called it even before they
lined up. Oh, they're going to hand it off to
Pukaakua on this play. But you know what, they run
a different little variation of it where he goes in
motion past Stafford, reverses his field, goes back the other
way and then does a good job breaking the tackle
on thirty one.

Speaker 1 (11:57):
Who is that?

Speaker 2 (11:59):
That's byered in a big spot and it's crazy if
you look Schuck. Over the last few years of Rams football,
how many big moments are those wide receiver runs. And
it was an up and down game for the Puka
and Akua Matthew Stafford connection, like a lot of their
like automatics just were not happening throughout the game. But

(12:22):
then you think about that third down earlier in that drive.
You think about a third down where he replaces where
the blitz is coming from in overtime to Puka Nakua,
and then that fourth down too, like in the end,
the Puka Nakua Stafford connection ends up taking them home
and just getting them over the finish line.

Speaker 4 (12:43):
And that's another part that's just so beautiful about football.
It so much could depend on tape study. How much
have you studied your opponent what they like to do
in certain situations, and how do they play off of that,
Because later in this game, they try to run, they
try to show as that they're going to run an
end around to Pooka again on a third and short
and they motion into the right. Then they run a
toss to the left and it gets blown up in
the backfield after Kyraen Williams, but he breaks an initial

(13:05):
tackle and then gets taken down right, And so it's that,
but it's also you know, I see people online immediately
after they convert that third down in overtime to Pooka.
Why are you playing off coverage, you know, eight yards
off when it's third and five? Well, because they're blitzing
and the rams are just replacing where the defender left
with the receiver for the first down. It's the back
and forth. It's the what do I think is going
to work here? What do we like to go to?

(13:25):
What am I anticipating that they're doing? And it's so
great that Sean McVay caught up to himself in time,
because at the end of that touchdown drive to take
a seventeen to ten lead, they show a shot of
him on the sideline and he's visibly fired up, like
let's freaking go that sort of thing, and I'm like,
you know what, he really is reveling in this moment
right now, because he's proud of himself for getting out
of a bad game, flow, calling a really good drive

(13:46):
and finally getting a step ahead of Dennis Allen after
you spent the entire game on your back foot because
Allen was dictating to you It's just a great thing
about football.

Speaker 3 (13:53):
That's why these games are so special.

Speaker 5 (13:55):
Yeah, the the picture dictates so much of what the
Rams do.

Speaker 9 (13:59):
It's base on the look.

Speaker 5 (14:01):
And to take that particular flow back from Dennis Allen
and say, well, why don't why don't we take an
opportunity to dictate here, because to me, it freed up
a little bit of Stafford in the passing game because
these like Kyler Gordon had the second most pressures on
the Bears. Like the Bears time to their pressure, Wow,

(14:22):
a lot of them was was less than less than
three seconds, Like it was getting to Stafford so quickly
where you can see it in the statistics that. Yeah,
mcveigh's right, the flow of the game and the play
calling wasn't on inside until it was.

Speaker 2 (14:37):
And then and you think about in terms of going
with tempo late in the game. They also had a
good drive at the end of the second quarter to
get a field goal and that was when they had
to go tempo a minute and ten seconds left in
that game. And so that's sort of what I was
getting at when I said the defense kept giving them
chances for Sean McVay to kind of get out of
that rut because the last the last drive of regular

(15:01):
the drive after the Rams scored that touchdown a bit
of a fiasco. The first drive of overtime you just
mentioned one of the final plays on it, the toss
that gets stuff look like it might lose them the
game because they're giving the ball back up and all
the Bears need to do is get a field goal.
They were all in that position though, because of the play.

(15:22):
Let's actually listen. Let's set up once again. It's seventeen
to ten. Rams allow the Bears to drive down to
the goal line, but like for much of the day,
the Bears struggled inside the five yard line. We'll return
to that in a second. They get all the way
to fourth down until Caleb just takes it into his

(15:43):
own hands.

Speaker 11 (15:44):
And it's fourth and four at the Ram fourteen and
then begun is the quarterback Tayleb Williams looks into the nickel,
arms out stretched, fourth down and four fourteen of the
Rams shotgun snap goes back four.

Speaker 9 (15:57):
Four man rush.

Speaker 6 (15:58):
He's chased, he's flushed, he's.

Speaker 9 (16:00):
Hold the way back to the forty.

Speaker 11 (16:01):
He's back pedaling and fills the pass and the girls
caught touchdown.

Speaker 6 (16:06):
Touchdown Chandos kind of touchdown pass.

Speaker 11 (16:11):
Clift Cole come out open in the corner.

Speaker 6 (16:14):
If you hadn't seen it, you would not believe it.
Eighteen seconds left. He's a tendanodio.

Speaker 9 (16:25):
That Soldier Field Stude's mad.

Speaker 3 (16:28):
It's a Marlond banger.

Speaker 2 (16:30):
Another one the best love Kevin Harlan And yeah, I could.

Speaker 1 (16:34):
I could watch that play forever.

Speaker 2 (16:37):
And and uh, look the way he kept running back
on that play.

Speaker 1 (16:45):
It reminded me of flag football a little bit.

Speaker 2 (16:49):
Occasionally you'll see in these flag like middle school leagues
there's the one kid who's just way more athletic and
better than everyone, and that's the type of stuff that
you can do. Also reminds me a little bit of
techmost Super Bowl, if you haven't you know, a good quarterback,
and you just start running backwards forever because you're you're faster.

Speaker 1 (17:06):
Than he could do.

Speaker 2 (17:07):
But he's doing that against Jared Verse and Braden Fisk
and Kobe Turner and then turning around and Kobe Durant
would have been sick if they lose this game because
he loses comet at the last second. But for Caleb
to throw that ball kind of blind but kind of
knowing he's there and having the confidence to do it
like that looked like it was plan a Patrick. That

(17:29):
was kind of what he wanted to do.

Speaker 5 (17:30):
Yeah, just wanted to get enough time to have his
giant tight end match stuff with one of the smallest
people on the field and to have a weight room
moment in the back of the end zone where I
get Techmo super Bowl, I get a little game breaker
ninety eight. Yeah, with the way that all of Fisk
and Verse and Young's animations were the exact same in

(17:51):
Chason Caleb Williams reacting to his movements where it's I
mean he's laying on his back at the logo comet.
That's just this ball where there's it's perfect. It's a
perfect moment.

Speaker 2 (18:05):
So this throw, you won't be surprised to know, was
the furthest completion on a throw made like the furthest
behind the line of scrimmage of any completion in the
NFL since the NGS era started like he went back
further and completed the pass more than any.

Speaker 1 (18:26):
Throw in the NNGS era.

Speaker 2 (18:28):
It also was the longest completion of any red zone throw.
Not a surprise there in terms of air yards in
the NNGS era. So that's just putting like a couple
of numbers on seeing fantastic play and Ben Johnson called
it just ridiculous afterwards. Now, in that moment, there's what
eighteen seconds left and it's seventeen to sixteen, do you

(18:52):
think that Ben Johnson should have gone for two shook?

Speaker 1 (18:56):
And did you think you would?

Speaker 4 (18:58):
I don't know if I would say I think that
he should have. I thought he was going to. I
definitely thought this is like the most aggressive coach in
the NFL. He comes from the Dan Campbelltree, one of
the most aggressive coaches in the NFL. But it was
also a great example of how within the game how
it can affect your decisions later because every time that
they went for it, whether it was in a goal
to go situation, they turned it over on downs twice

(19:19):
in this game, and the fourth and goal situation they
had earlier which led them to needing that throw. It
was a call that you know, it's a quick fire
pass and it gets broken up by Spates at the
goal line, and you're thinking, if that's your best play
call at that point, you probably have nothing left.

Speaker 3 (19:33):
So I understand why.

Speaker 4 (19:34):
You kick the pat you take it to overtime, you
think you're gonna ride the wave of momentum at home
into overtime and capitalize there. But I was a little
bit surprised, just knowing who he was, that he didn't
go for it, just because that's the type of coach
he is.

Speaker 3 (19:46):
Totally understood why though. Don't disagree with it at all.

Speaker 5 (19:48):
Yeah, I'd said to Greg before the drive that this
is setting up for a two point conversion that we're
gonna have a chance to talk about for years. But
the explanation from coach Johnson makes perfect sense. It chooks
all over it. The play had already been run if
you go through like game winning two point conversion plays,
considering the stakes of the game, whatever they would have

(20:09):
run in that situation was probably already called.

Speaker 2 (20:12):
And it wasn't executed well. As he pointed out, he
was just saying, look, they weren't clean. He wishes he
had a better plan. Our goal to go plan just
wasn't great. And if you're watching again you can see
the video. By the way, I just want people to
see this that Stacy Dale's shot of the Caleb touchdown,
which might be the finest reporter on the sideline, just

(20:37):
taping from their phone, hoping to get a little magic
moment every maybe the number one of the genre. Cole
Comette just swinging for the home run right into Stacy Dale's.
He was like, I'm gonna score a life changing touchdown.
Then I'm going to find Stacy Dale's and go right
into her phone.

Speaker 5 (20:55):
If you're watching on Sunday Night Football, you're thinking, wow,
co Comett went right to the Sunday Night Football camera
and hit his home run celebration.

Speaker 9 (21:01):
No, that was Stacy. He was doing that celebration. App Yeah,
just just off screen.

Speaker 1 (21:06):
Crazy.

Speaker 4 (21:07):
Also Stacy great master of the zoom feature on an iPhone, right,
like the little pull your thumb up, pull it down,
zoom and in, zoom out at the perfect time, he'll
cook hit her up.

Speaker 1 (21:15):
Whole thing is crazy.

Speaker 2 (21:17):
And I certainly don't blame Ben Johnson for not going
for two. And this is why press conference is, you know,
asking for context is perfect. That all made sense, like
his answer for and ultimately he got the ball back
in overtime, his defense got a stop that might have
played into it. He thought, He's like, I felt like,
you know, we could go win it in overtime, and

(21:39):
he was you know, he was right. He got the
ball back, he gets all the way to midfield in overtime.
And you do think about whether the fourth down decisions
too earlier in this game, you know, impacted Ben Johnson.
So the Bears go three for six on fourth down
in this game. Now they get a touchdown in the

(22:00):
first half because they go for it on fourth down
and then they get stopped another time.

Speaker 1 (22:05):
You know that that's a net win. You get seven points.

Speaker 2 (22:08):
Seven's better than the two, it's greater than then you
have a goal line stop of DeAndre Swift on third down.
That was a really fascinating sequence. When the Bears are
driving late in regulation, it's their second, it's their drive
before that one. They get to the goal line and

(22:30):
there's a back to back play sequence with DeAndre Swift
trying to get in and then a stop on fourth
down that that could have possibly like been a James
Harrison type of play for Omar Spates. What were you
thinking about, like what the Rams defense was going to
do there? Just in general, like why was it, why
was it? Why were they like what did the Rams

(22:52):
do specifically? I guess if you saw anything in this
game because their defense did a great job too, and
deserves a lot of credit for slowing down this Bears
attack on the ground.

Speaker 4 (23:01):
Yeah, the goal line, and this is a Bears team
that runs pretty violently inside the five when they do
commit to the run on the goal line, like it's
worked against other teams in the past, and this time around,
they kind of twist Swift down short of the goal
line by I think two yards on second down. Third down,
it looks like he's gonna make it with the toss,
but the Bear successfully string it out. He tries to
go for the hurdle, then he gets blasted. Quinton Lake

(23:22):
flies in out of nowhere, so if you're watching on YouTube,
you can see it right now. He gets strung out
by Verse. He tries to hurdle over in next defender.
Then Quinton Lake flies in out of nowhere and blasts
him out of the air to send him down to
the ground still short of the goal line. He's gained
nothing there, and at that point you're thinking, Okay, if
you're trying to commit to running the ball, you believe
you can run the ball here into the end zone,
You're probably out of options going unto fourth down, I

(23:43):
don't know why kylem anun guy wasn't more involved. He's
the more violent runner of the two. But you can
always you know, Hindsight's twenty twenty. I thought the fourth
down play was curious at best. It was it was
basically like what you would call a spacing concept where
you get you know, guys in kind of a bunch
of formations. Somebody comes inside and runs a little like
hitch on the inside, and you just fired in there
in a tight window, but space was all over it.
It's a great play by the Rams defense, and at

(24:03):
that point you've exhausted all of the Bears goal line plays,
including probably the two point conversion, which is why I
had such a major effect on the outcome of the game,
because then they get down there with the miraculous catch
and they can't do anything to go win the game.

Speaker 3 (24:15):
They just have to settle for the pat which is
perfectly fine.

Speaker 5 (24:17):
Yeah, it's one of those Particularly like the granular aspects
of that play, because they pulled Jordan McFadden, the left
guard on the other side on that shotgun hand off
to Swift where maybe you think he can go inside
of McFadden's block. He trusts himself to be able to
get to the end zone. Then he's got Darius Williams.
He can't see Quinton Lake coming on the backside. You know,

(24:38):
in hindsight and looking at the broadcast forew you're thinking, well,
if he takes Darius Williams corner to the pylon, I
think DeAndre Swift gets there, but he sees the shortest
route being there, not knowing that Lake was on the
outside of his block in the first place, which is
probably why he could have gone inside in the first way.

Speaker 2 (24:54):
It did feel like Detroit Lions DeAndre Swift showed up
for one play because if he just didn't jump, he
just lower lowered his shoulder like he's falling inside the
one I think at the at the worst. But but
the way they defended that, And yeah, there were so
many defensive plays by the Rams during this game which
kept him in it. But more than anything, it was

(25:16):
the secondary like Cam curl gets an absolutely massive interception
in overtime. Here is Cam Curle talking after the game. Uh,
with NBC picks for.

Speaker 11 (25:30):
Your boy, Kobe Durant, how were you all able to
read Caleb Williams so well tonight, man?

Speaker 1 (25:35):
You know, just just playing together.

Speaker 12 (25:36):
Man.

Speaker 1 (25:36):
We trust each other.

Speaker 13 (25:37):
Man.

Speaker 14 (25:38):
And you know we heard we had a little noise,
you know in the win about our secondary.

Speaker 1 (25:41):
You know they were hating on us.

Speaker 15 (25:42):
But you know, we can't to show them what we
can do.

Speaker 1 (25:44):
Man.

Speaker 9 (25:44):
We make plays back there.

Speaker 1 (25:45):
Man, we win games for the team. What'd you hear?

Speaker 12 (25:48):
Man?

Speaker 3 (25:48):
I ain't will and you don't give him no no airtime.
But we heard it though, and that's why we played
like that. We wanna continue to play like that.

Speaker 5 (25:55):
That's that's me. I'm sorry, Chicago. I motivated the Rams
secondary to play extra hard. I thought maybe the Bears
could exploit some size advantages, and considering the the Kobe
Durant play with cool commit it appears that happened.

Speaker 2 (26:08):
But we've been talking about the Rams dbs being especially
the cornerbacks, being potentially their achilles heel all season. I
do want to show that Cam Curle interception in overtime
because I think it's going to be a controversial, you know,
play for a long time in Chicago. After the game,
Caleb Williams said that it was a miscommunication that he

(26:32):
thought DJ Moore was going to flatten out the route
a little more, but more went vertical. Some other people
shooky saying Dj Moore kind of quiet quit on a
route at the biggest spot in overtime. What was your
your read on that? Just a fantastic play by the
way by Curl like that often is the difference in

(26:54):
these games is like a defensive back or defensive player
just like making the damn play. But it was not
a great Dj Moore moment and probably the last moment
of him in a Bear's uniform.

Speaker 4 (27:05):
Yeah, but I think this is that both things can
be true situation because let's think about it from DJ
Moore's perspective, You're running that route, it's a deep over
and you're thinking, all right, this safety is here. I'm covered,
Like I'm not gonna get the ball because I'm covered,
Whereas Caleb's thinking flatten out, adjust to where the dB is.
He doesn't, so he does kind of quit on the play.
But also it's a great play made by the defensive back,
and it's just a bit of a misunderstanding between quarterback

(27:25):
and receiver.

Speaker 3 (27:26):
And sometimes that just happens. It's just that it happened
to be the.

Speaker 1 (27:30):
It happens with.

Speaker 2 (27:31):
It happens with DJ Moore a lot it really is
probably why he's gonna be gone. Yeah, it's it's unfortunate
because look, that's I am more amazed by quarterbacks and
wide receivers being able to cite a just just as
a regular part of that's just how the NFL is played,
like on an every down basis. I'm more amazed by

(27:52):
that than almost anything, Like even more than all the athletics.
It seems insane that that works. It's always worked, so,
like I I get it that it's it's a high
degree of difficulty situation.

Speaker 1 (28:04):
But unfortunately, I think Caleb had it read, you know right.

Speaker 2 (28:07):
And it's interesting because they get the ball back there
in overtime after a pretty regrettable drive by the Rams,
and they get it all the way to midfield.

Speaker 1 (28:15):
Caleb Williams is scrambling.

Speaker 2 (28:17):
Later in the game, Caleb Williams is making a lot
of really great, high level throws. They're at midfield at
this point. I think Rams fans are thinking, like, this
game's probably over. They need one first down to get
in Cairo Santos's field goal rent and instead they're kind
of big game hunting, and that's how the Rams end
up moving on.

Speaker 9 (28:37):
Yeah, and Caleb's aggressive.

Speaker 5 (28:38):
That's that's why, that's why they were in this part
in this game in the first place. You know, it
has happened a lot with DJ Moore. I feel like
the fact that it was you know, route number fifty
eight for DJ Moore and the accumulation of you know,
DJ is not a smallish wide receiver to be you know,

(28:58):
playing that that volume of play, not to make excuse
for it, but just to highlight, you know, some of
the factors that go into that where he's, like you said,
he's not necessarily looking. If he's looking, I think it's
a little bit different. But didn't didn't see the ball,
saw something different than Caleb did. And this is a
couple of plays after Caleb runs directly into Landman on

(29:19):
a first down run where you know, he's like t
bow powering it down the field for the Chicago Bears.
And I know, you know, hindsight being absolutely flawless as
it always is going to be. Folks wanted some more
runs there, but people wanted runs when they were passes.
It's we could find me everything. We had a tom machine.

Speaker 1 (29:35):
Caleb was even though he threw three picks.

Speaker 2 (29:39):
I just have so much more confidence in him than
I even did six weeks ago. I think he was
just improving on a week to week basis. Some of
the hole shots in this game, there was the one
to a Donze late in the fourth quarter that that
he hit, but there were there were a couple like that.

Speaker 1 (29:54):
On that one actually, Colston Lovelin.

Speaker 2 (29:56):
By the way, Ali Connelly texted me to point, make
sure you give Colston Loveland his credit for block and
Jared Verse.

Speaker 1 (30:02):
One on one.

Speaker 2 (30:03):
Sometimes tight ends can block the defensive end. It's not
always a problem, and it's true on that play, and
Caleb had a few plays like that to Adunze, to Moore,
who did have five catches in this game, including a
touchdown to Loveland. But I did think like a problem
from them in this game was like the Bears receivers
weren't always making the plays for him. I think there

(30:24):
were two to three clear drops. Loveland definitely had one
or two, and then there was probably like four or
five more that would have been tough, but you could
have made the play for him. We'll talk about the
Patriots in a second. Their receivers were making plays. The
defensive backs for the Rams were making plays. Kobe Durant
with two of them. They weren't easy ones. And yeah,

(30:46):
like I'm not going to like attribute it to anything
magical other than they just made it happen in the
end in a game that could not have been any closer.
And I think to your point in the I think
for a lot of the game it almost looked like
the Bears were the better team in the snuck it out.

Speaker 4 (31:01):
Yeah, that is kind of what it felt like. But
I also think that you're right in that they could
have made some plays. I think about a deep shot
to Luther Burden that gets broken up by a great
play by a Rams defensive back, and you think, oh,
maybe a bigger receiver or more experienced receiver, a stronger
receiver makes that play and that changes, you know, the
course of the game.

Speaker 3 (31:15):
But it's also this game.

Speaker 4 (31:16):
You know, on Caleb's three interceptions, we just talked about
the last one, but there was also one earlier where
it felt like maybe there was another misunderstanding. And it's
a feather in the Kapa Krushula, the defensive coordinator for
the Rams, for the way that he disguises coverage. They
come out showing man coverage across the board and it
looks like the receiving corps and Caleb both believe that
it's man coverage, and instead he goes to the corner
route to Luther Burton and Kobe Durant's right there drifting

(31:38):
back in zone coverage to pick it off and take
away the idea of a possible whole shot because you think,
all right, Burden's running the corner rout, he's got the
advantage on outside leverage over the safety, but he never
sees Durant back there because he thinks Durant's running with
the receiver who cuts inside from the outside, and he's.

Speaker 3 (31:54):
Never going to be there.

Speaker 4 (31:54):
And that's why it's beautiful that the Rams can get
away with things like this, or at least accomplished things
like this defensively. It's just to Feather and the Kappa
Chris Shula and an example of why football is so
much of a chess match in such an in game
reaction thing. And for Caleb, being a second year quarterback,
done so many great things you talk about over the
last six weeks. I go all the way back to
the Raider game, way back in Week four, when he
led them back. That was the first step in him
becoming this clutch player. He did it so many times

(32:17):
this season, but it is another example of why we
have to remind ourselves he is only in his second
year and he will learn from things like this.

Speaker 5 (32:23):
There was a moment in the game where Collinsworth was
maybe speculating that Loveland runs the wrong route on the
adjustment there and could have taken up more space vertically
to occupied Durant so that there's more freedom to get
that ball to.

Speaker 9 (32:38):
Luther Burden.

Speaker 5 (32:39):
But a great play, a great call by defense of
as you said, Greg, one team made plays when the
ball was in the air and the other did.

Speaker 1 (32:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (32:47):
And look, I think Colston Loveland ended up suffering a
concussion in this game. He did not finish the game.
Ben Johnson did confirm that afterwards. You hate to see that.
Just shout out to Kevin Dotson and this running game
in this offensive line that you know, we'll have all
week to talk about what they need to do in Seattle.

(33:08):
But the running game, Look, it's it's not as easy
as just saying you got to run the ball more
and then and then it works like you got to
have the players to actually execute that. On a day
where they almost use no heavy personnel. They were basically
in three wide receivers the whole game, almost treating Jordan
Whittington as a tight end and or you know, sometimes

(33:31):
it was Mumpfield.

Speaker 1 (33:32):
But they did not go heavy.

Speaker 2 (33:33):
And for what it's worth, the few plays that they did,
it did not go very well for them. And when
they needed to run that, their offensive line really road graded.
And just we're getting four five yard chunks. Let's let's wrap. Actually,
just given the Rams some credit and by listening to
Sean McVay talk about what they were going up against today, and.

Speaker 10 (33:56):
That's what it's about. You know, there's no style points.
It's about being able to survive in advance. And we
were able to do that in a tough, hostile environment.

Speaker 1 (34:02):
And it was coldish today, and uh, yeah, they got
they got through.

Speaker 2 (34:09):
Uh the West Coast team, they can they can win
in the cold. Uh probably won't be as cold in
Seattle next week.

Speaker 1 (34:16):
Whew, let's uh, let's take a break.

Speaker 2 (34:18):
I mean, the most surprising thing all Sunday for me
was not the moment that Caleb Williams uh through that pass.
It was the moment that Eric got in my ear
and told me we've already gone twenty five minutes.

Speaker 1 (34:30):
I was like, what, I feel like we've all been
talking for like five it started minutes.

Speaker 2 (34:35):
Let's take a quick break and we're gonna come back
and we're gonna talk about the AFC matchup between Drake
May and that Texans.

Speaker 15 (34:44):
Defense steps us over the right guard.

Speaker 14 (34:55):
Here comes a four man washed By stands and throws
a long bull if he's on the right supper King Shawn.

Speaker 12 (35:00):
We unders Patriots. I'm coming after we has regained a
two score league?

Speaker 8 (35:13):
What's up? How's the hell of the problem sorted for?
They walk Henderson up, they're telling the Touxis we're flowing it.
Trek Masons, I don't care.

Speaker 2 (35:28):
Poor Zolac. I mean, Eric's just sick of hearing him.
He's like, that's enough, Solac, that's Bob Socie. That's the
final score in a twenty eight to sixteen Patriots victory.
New England is moving on to the AFC Championship game
in Denver. It was all building up to the Jarrett

(35:52):
Stidham revenge game all along.

Speaker 1 (35:55):
What a sentence. We can talk about that later in
the week. First we got to talk about this game.

Speaker 2 (36:03):
Similar to how Matthew Stafford's defense kept getting the ball
back to Stafford.

Speaker 1 (36:09):
The Patriots defense kept getting it back with turnovers. CJ.

Speaker 2 (36:13):
Stroud and the Texans turn it over five times. And
you can only keep this Patriots big play offense down
for so long. They did throw three touchdown passes, first
quarterback all season to do that against the Houston Texans.
It wasn't pretty shook on a play by play basis,

(36:36):
but I was impressed by May and the receiver's ability
to make something big happen in Spurts, you know what
I mean, Like they just needed someone to make big
plays in Kashan Boody and Stefan Diggs and May in
Spurts made enough of them to get out of there

(36:58):
in just an ugly game there in the cold rain
and the snow.

Speaker 4 (37:02):
Yeah, I think we're establishing a bit of a theme
with the Patriots postseason journey because that was kind of
the story of the Charger game as well, is the
throw to Hunter Henry to get the touchdown to essentially
seal that victory. And we got that three or four
times today, which was the throw to Booty that you
just heard that we just played there. But it was
also an earlier throw to Booty on third down where
he forces it in a tight window for a game
of seventeen or eighteen, that sets up the tight window

(37:23):
throw to Stefan Diggs in the end zone for a touchdown.

Speaker 3 (37:26):
And yes, May is not lighting up the stat sheet.

Speaker 4 (37:28):
He finishes with one hundred and seventy nine yards passing
sixteen to twenty seven. But with those three touchdowns, you
don't have to when you get short fields because your
defense is playing better than it has all year. It's
very opportunistic and outside of your own stripsack issues against
a couple of good pass rushes who are totally taking
the advantage of a rookie at left tackle and Will Campbell,
you're not committing, you know, egregious turnovers that are costing

(37:49):
you the game, and you're capitalizing on the most of
the opportunities that you're getting, and that's what's gotten them
now to the AFC Championship game. The question is, well
that formula stand the test of another week. We'll find out,
But through two games hasn't been stellar, but he's been
good when he's needed to be good, and that's what's
mattered most.

Speaker 2 (38:03):
Yeah, it's hard to evaluate because look, he fumbled the
ball four times.

Speaker 1 (38:07):
Drake made today and lost it twice.

Speaker 2 (38:10):
I think two were really on him and two you know,
the pressure's pretty quick there from the blind side. The
reason I kind of started with that play was Ultimately,
this game was insane. First of all, I mean, there
are eight turnovers in the game, and they all happened.
You know, I think in the first three quarters, in

(38:30):
those five turnovers, how many points do you think the
Patriots scored off those off the how much the offense
scored off the turnovers.

Speaker 9 (38:38):
I believe it was zero points zero.

Speaker 2 (38:42):
They got to pick six, but an offense, they didn't
do anything with any of them. The three touchdowns that
they got were actually like full field normal drives where
they just suddenly popped up for like a sixty five
seventy year old drive, which against his Texans defense, you'll take. Ultimately,
I think what people are going to remember more from
this game is what happened on the other side of

(39:02):
the ball with CJ.

Speaker 9 (39:03):
Stroud.

Speaker 5 (39:03):
Yeah, just just say a cataclysm of errors where you
wonder about the early you know, we've had every single
quarterback I feel like in the playoffs injure their hand
on a follow through at some point. It happens early
for CJ Stroud. There was the wintry mix, there was
the notable absence of Nico Collins coming into the game
out with the brain injury, and then they lose Dalton Schultz,

(39:25):
who was apparently the entire plane was constructed game plan
wise out of Dalton Schultz, and combined with the worst
CJ Stroud game since last week's worst c J Stroud game,
it all led to this just kind of a waste
of a great defensive performance by the Houston Texans because
you talk about all three of those touchdown passes, if

(39:47):
I'm not mistaken, other than the Kaishawn Booty one hander,
because that was the only place anybody was going to
get a hand on the ball. The Texans got hands
on both of those touchdown passes. Bullet got a full
palm on the ball that was caught by Pop Douglas,
where he makes a great adjustment late to catch that
ball that was deflected, not like a full deflection, but

(40:07):
enough that we bothered some people. So he goes into
the end zone there and you could see Stefan Diggs's
fingers impressing on the football because he's able to hold
on to that touchdown pass where that was the level
of difficulty that was required for the Patriots to score
points today. And then you know Hunter and Anderson. I
get like the frustrations with Will Campbell and the Patriots front.

(40:28):
They're getting everybody, but they're doing up everybody at this point.
And that's gonna happen with Drake May. He's gonna have
deep drops and look down the field and try to
make plays. Maybe not the team that you want to
do that against, but they kind of checked that.

Speaker 2 (40:41):
Down late in the second right, they started just getting
the ball out of his hands on some of the
third and longs. I hear what you're saying. But here's
just a little stat from next Gen stats. Will Anderson
and a Dafeoe are the only two players in the
history of the postseason to get three sacks and two
forced fumbles in the same game. And they do have,
uh a commonality, which is a you know this, Campbell

(41:03):
and May are the two kind of problem And look, mate,
there might be a little bit of like a we
might be on hand size in the cold weather watch
a little bit with Drake May.

Speaker 1 (41:12):
You're rolling your eyes.

Speaker 5 (41:13):
Yeah, if you get Bobbin out there or maybe Wimby, Yeah,
and have them hold the ball with giant hands and
have de Neil Hunters sweat like it's not necessarily gonna go.

Speaker 2 (41:23):
No, it's if you were gonna get on the hand
side stuff. Maybe maybe it's when he fumbles it rushing
earlier in the game that that was.

Speaker 9 (41:32):
You know, there was a they were playing in a
slushy mo.

Speaker 2 (41:34):
Either way it was it was tough to make plays
there on offense. Certainly, you mentioned that Douglas fourth down play.
Let's actually listen to that because I think that was
a big early moment where Josh McDaniels and Mike Freebele
decide to go for it on fourth down. Instead instead
of just you know, quote unquote taking the points against

(41:55):
a great defense, they decided to go for it on
fourth down.

Speaker 14 (41:58):
To what to receivers Jovin White, including Douglas. He's looking
that way. He's throwing Douglas next catch the touchdown.

Speaker 8 (42:08):
I just say, no, buddy, on punf Douglas, I get
it great, So you get it in bad coverage he
comes to blitz. Think of cover with fourth and one.

Speaker 9 (42:18):
Patiently your quarterback.

Speaker 8 (42:20):
They pick here waits, Douglas clears the underneath coverage, and
then it's off to the racist. He's been nowhere this
last month. The buck doesn't just get you on the
court early.

Speaker 1 (42:33):
Uh again.

Speaker 2 (42:34):
Uh So, why do you gotta say he's been nowhere
this last month? I mean he's he's been in Foxborough
practicing with the Patriots, but.

Speaker 9 (42:43):
You know he's he's like like taking a shot at
Foxboro the.

Speaker 1 (42:46):
Fourth wide receiver.

Speaker 2 (42:47):
I thought the game management like it wasn't perfect by
the Patriots, but I do think like the kind of
routine that that Josh McDaniels got in on a couple
different drives going for it there on fourth how they
handled kind of the end of half situation, different situations
compared to how Damiko Ryans and the Texans handled a

(43:10):
lot of their decision making and their ability to kind
of stay composed and timeouts and pre snap penalties things
like that that I think that was a difference. And
I was kind of thinking about how Mike Grabel said
going into the year, like the first thing we got
to do is find out how to not beat ourselves,
like let the other teams beat themselves. And I did
feel like at times on Sundays Shook that the Texans
were beating themselves.

Speaker 4 (43:30):
Yeah, I think it's an identify your strengths going into
the game and try to lean on that sort of
situation for both of these teams. And if you're the Patriots,
you're looking at that opportunity early and you're thinking, how
many times are we going to get down here and
really have a real shot at scoring a touchdown against
this defense? Probably not very often, even you know, we
talked about how they didn't cash in those turnovers for points.
That's kind of an example of what they expected. But

(43:51):
in that moment, early enough in the game, you feel
yourself having a little bit of strength forth and one,
We've got to get the right call, and you just
narrowly get it past Kaalen Bullock and ends up producing
a touch down. That's the risk that you take in
a playoff game and you hope that it pays off.
And it did for them there. But you're right, and
I thought it was most telling in the fourth quarter
not to speed ahead to that point. But there's like
four and a half minutes left in the game and
the Texans are down twelve points, and Demiko Ryans is

(44:13):
like I'm gonna punt because much like the Steeler game
proved itself to be, the Texans defense probably had a
better chance of scoring than the Texans offense did at
that point because he knew that was their strength, their defense,
and it's it is unfortunate because this is a defense that,
had they gotten all the way to the Super Bowl,
had an opportunity to go to go down among some
of the best of this century. Like I'm thinking two thousands,

(44:34):
the two thousand Ravens, the two Buccaneers, the thirteen Seahawks,
the fifteen Broncos. That could have been this Texans defense.
But because the offense was so bad, none of it
ends up really being really mattering, ends up being a
footnote in the greater picture.

Speaker 2 (44:47):
This is unfair, but I think if they were those defenses,
they would have been one of those defenses, you know
what I mean, Like, that's okay, you're talking about the
greatest defenses of all time. Yeah, that's an unfair The
bar was so fa had to be one of those defenses,
I think to go on this run. But I think
if they were one of those defenses, they would have

(45:07):
been one of those defense kind of you know, it's like, yeah,
the line from the if if you were the one
that invented face, just remembering those defenses, if you were
the one that wo had invented Facebook, you would have
invented Facebook. Like they still gave up, They still gave
up the three like touchdowns.

Speaker 1 (45:22):
You know what I mean?

Speaker 4 (45:22):
Yes, but also consider the flow of the game and
the fact that their offense was getting them nothing and
they were constantly on the field, Like time possession was
only five minute different about four and a half minute difference.
But if you when we watched this game in real time,
it felt like the Texans were constantly finding themselves trotting
back on the field tasked with doing the same thing
you just got off the field doing, which was stopping
a Patriots offense that had the potential to put points
on the board.

Speaker 2 (45:42):
I totally agree with you. The bar was like insanely
unfairly high. And one of the big reasons the Patriots
won this game was fumble luck that when Daniel Hunter
stripsack Drake May near the goal line early in the game,
he didn't fall on it, like he was so close.
That could have been seven points. When Will Anderson had
a strip sack in the third quarter. He didn't fall

(46:03):
on it, and that's just that's more luck than anything.
And so maybe that's a fair point that it's complimentary,
but it's not like they were on the field playwise
that much. Actually, the Texans had more plays. The Texans
made it to the red zone four times. The Patriots
only did it once. The problem was, as you mentioned, Shook,
that when they hit plays like they kind of hit

(46:23):
him in a row and they hit big plays. We
actually have like a shot of you know, Kayshun Booty
dusted Derek Stingley Junior. You know, I wouldn't say he
dusted him for this touchdown, but his very first touchdown
for Drake May in his entire career was from basically
the same spot on the field, little in front of
the forty and he beats Derek Stingley clean and he

(46:45):
scores a touchdown there. Kamari Lassiter got beat off the
line of scrimmage. They didn't hit that shot to Kyle Williams,
I mean Kyle Williams in this game, but Stingly had
another pass interference penalty. It's the bar was like so
unfairly high that they just had to like shut them
down but they didn't force field goals is kind of
what I'm getting at, like that they needed to force
field goals and not give up touchdowns.

Speaker 9 (47:06):
Yeah, and they got got.

Speaker 5 (47:08):
You know, good defenses can get got, especially when they're
put in disadvantageous situations where there's the accumulation of dealing
with what they were having to watch, the amount of
times they were having to run immediately back on the field.
Great plays by Drake May and this Patriots team. I
think it's a little more difficult now to have because

(47:30):
we talk about those defenses of old. I think that
the game has changed to a capacity we're probably never
going to see that level of defense and as well
as keeping teams. We talk two thousand Ravens going through
that playoff runhe I don't think anybody got twenty points.

Speaker 9 (47:45):
I don't know that we're getting there.

Speaker 2 (47:46):
Again, that's fair, and the Patriots defense did score in
this game. As we mentioned earlier. Let's actually listen to
the pick six by Marcus. I think this was the
biggest play in the game because, you know, to bring
it back to this point that the Texans are winning
at this point, you know, CJ. Stroud did put together
a pretty good touchdown drive to go up ten to seven.

(48:06):
So they had scored ten points unanswered. They had, they
really had. Drake May looking rattled early in this game.
But they get the ball back the Texans too, and
that is time for the tech the Patriots to score.

Speaker 15 (48:20):
CJ scrubb in.

Speaker 14 (48:21):
A tight formation two by two, so he well baptist
chuck playfake whould like is an nearside receiver.

Speaker 1 (48:26):
Held out and scrub throws it up in the air finascepted.
Marcus Jones ride twenty fifteen to ten.

Speaker 6 (48:31):
Jones just tackled by Hundredson takes him to the pummel
one chuck shot up, takes a head tracks, look at it.

Speaker 1 (48:37):
It's nuts again, look on it nuts, I do come
love it.

Speaker 8 (48:42):
Prush her off the edge contact and the ball goes
pumped up right in here and finally we get it
off the deflection. There's been three times in the first
quarter balls have gone up deflected and all the crowd.

Speaker 1 (48:56):
Joe picks it up and rept his history.

Speaker 2 (48:59):
Does the burn old decision by Stroud one of four
for first half interceptions, you know one of them.

Speaker 1 (49:05):
The throw is a little high. Who was that off
of Higgins?

Speaker 9 (49:09):
Yeah? No, it was Hutchinson.

Speaker 2 (49:11):
Hutchinson like that one was kind of you know a
little on both of them. The others were more about
the decisions rather than the execution. But it didn't seem
like he had a lot of open receivers in this game.
I play like that though, and you got to you
gotta find a way to dirt it or just take
the sack.

Speaker 5 (49:28):
Yeah, But it's also a microcosm of the Texans twenty
twenty five season on offense where the operation was weird.
You have you had Bryant in because Schultz had already
gotten hurt at this point, He's coming across in motion.

Speaker 9 (49:42):
The tackle steps back, trips him, so he goes down.

Speaker 2 (49:45):
That there was Stiln Williams kind of pushed it. He
gets a little bit of an assist.

Speaker 1 (49:48):
On that play.

Speaker 5 (49:48):
Yet, but there were just so many plays in this
Texan season where the balls being snapped and bounce passes
to CJ. Stroud, where their spin move handoffs to the
wrong person, the defensive toe guys getting weird touchdown opportunities
were This was something that is happening all season for
the Texans, and the Patriots were able to take it.

Speaker 2 (50:07):
What he marks ran for seventeen yards on fourteen carries.
They also had the Texans classic, an illegal formation inside
the five yard line that took a touchdown off the
board on I think the first drive of the game,
like there were you.

Speaker 9 (50:21):
Have a defensive tackle at fullback.

Speaker 2 (50:23):
So so it was And you mentioned the injuries to
Schultz and Nico. Don't forget Trent Brown, who's been so
important for them, was inactive for this game. He got
hurt last week. I was a little bit surprised he
was inactive. And then Titus Howard, who was helping to
replace him. I mean, he's a starter, but they moved
the whole line around. He gets hurt in this game too,
so they're down a couple offensive lines, so there was

(50:45):
a lot going against him. Let's actually listen to Demico
Ryans asking or asked after the game about, you know,
backing his quarterback that the man that he entered Houston
with no c J is our guy.

Speaker 9 (51:01):
I believe that.

Speaker 7 (51:04):
He could come back out in the second half and
flip it. I believe that he could play better, and
he did that in the second half. He did play better.
We had some positive drives there in the second half.
Is I believe that he would do that, and he
did that.

Speaker 1 (51:20):
H Let's also listen to CJ. Stroud after the game
after one of his if not most most difficult nights
as a pro.

Speaker 13 (51:30):
I'm a pretty self confident person. I think, you know,
when they started to pile up, I try my best
to you know, stay you know, locked in in the
spirit and you know, realizing I you know, I just
got to be there for my teammates and they encouraged
me a lot through it. So I'm really appreciative of
this team and you know, them doing that because they
don't have to. But yeah, it was it was, you know,
not not easy and something that I'm learned from and

(51:51):
you know, you know, just grateful what my teammates are
picking me up.

Speaker 1 (51:54):
I'm always a CJ. Stroud believer. He's gonna have to
wear this.

Speaker 2 (51:58):
This offseason shook kind of where are you at with
with Stroud after this third season and especially like how
it ended these last two weeks.

Speaker 4 (52:07):
Yeah, I think you have to look at his career
in totality from this point because of how good he
was as a rookie, and you have to think what
changed last year. They had a terrible offensive line, he
had over fifty sacks taken, and that was obviously a
need for them. Going to the offseason, they felt like
they had improved it and it showed in the sack numbers.
They cut that in half. But Stroud was still a
little inconsistent when it came to just delivering. And we

(52:28):
saw in some games like the late season game against
the Chargers, where they were good for the big play,
like if he had time to throw, he'd find a
guy downfield and you know, produce explosives, and they did
that a lot down the second half of the season
once Stroud came back to replace Davis Mills. But ultimately,
once you lose a couple of guys in a playoff game,
you see the same offensive line regress back to where

(52:49):
it was last year. And he has been under pressure
for so long now that I feel like they've kind
of broken him a little bit mentally, and he needs
an offseason to kind of reset. He needs to be
told that I can trust this often of line and
I don't have to go be the hero and make
the superhero play that results in saw all the turnovers
we saw against Pittsburgh, when we saw against New England today,
So I think that's a big part of it too.
But also I'm a little concerned about his accuracy over

(53:13):
the long term, like to the point where Akman's like
his hands got to be hurt or something. Because even
on the touchdown pass he throws to Christian Kirk in
this game, it's on the wrong shoulder, like he was
missing placement all game, and he'd been doing that for
a little bit, you know, against Pittsburgh as well. He
had some bigger throws in that game. But it makes
me think that is your greatest attribute is your accuracy.
That's what made you special coming out of Ohio State.
That's what made you special as a rookie. If that's gone,

(53:34):
you got bigger problems at hand. And unfortunately the season
ends in this fashion and now all he's going to
have to try to tune out for the entire offseason
is is he the future the Texans need to look
somewhere else when maybe he just needs an offseason to reset.
But yeah, it's not nearly as encouraging as it was
two years ago, and I understand why people would question
his outlook now.

Speaker 2 (53:51):
Look I don't I'm shocked that Texans fans are jumping off.
I mean, I guess I shouldn't be shocked every fan
jumps off the quarter back when they struggle big time.

Speaker 9 (54:02):
There were't a lot of people calling for Mitch Rubisky.

Speaker 2 (54:04):
Yesterday, right, CJ go is twenty for forty seven in
this game. The context of what happened, especially last year,
is important, and certainly this year it hasn't been perfect either,
but he's also just become an erratic quarterback in a

(54:24):
way that like I believed he was like real deal truth,
and I still think he can because I one thing
I'll always believe if you show that level at the
NFL level, you can do it, like.

Speaker 1 (54:36):
You can you can get back to that.

Speaker 2 (54:38):
But there have been a lot of times this season
when the situation actually I think has been fine, like
within a game, certainly within plays, and that he has
done things that have been confounding. That he's just been
more erratic on a play to play, drive to drive,
quarter to quarter, game to game basis where I'm I'm

(55:00):
never quite sure like where it's coming, and sometimes he'll
get in a rhythm and you'll be like, damn, that's
one of the best thing is that's one of the
best quarterbacks in the league because he does the hard
stuff really well, but sometimes and I know the weather
I think was a huge factor in this game. I
think the Patriots defense has gotten way better as the
season's gone on, and they were a huge factor in

(55:22):
this game. But they need to go back to the
drawing board because I don't think it's I don't think
you can just put it all on everything around him.
There's some there's something that was going on this year.
I think, even in good situations, that almost concerned me
more than than what happened last year.

Speaker 14 (55:39):
I think.

Speaker 1 (55:39):
I think on balance it was a little more unsettling.
But for the Texans, they're not They're not gonna question anything,
like they're gonna pick up his fifth year option. He's
he's contract extension eligible.

Speaker 2 (55:50):
What what it might do is it just might prevent
them from giving him his monster contract now, which frankly
I think is like that that's the breaks. It's a
five you're a rookie contract. You don't have to get
the contract after three years. But they might they might
try to save some money on giving it to him now,
Like that's not to decide right now, and.

Speaker 5 (56:07):
I think that'd be preposterous at this point, and I
just like, I think the folks calling for Davis Mills
in this game, we're a touch preposterous considering what CJ
has been able to do.

Speaker 9 (56:20):
I think, like, looking at the evidence, what.

Speaker 2 (56:22):
Do you think it's preposterous? Though, I mean, he it's
a five year rookie contract. As long as you pick
up that fifth year option. I don't think it's preposterous
to just be like, okay, go players, I think you're.

Speaker 9 (56:30):
To get cute with it.

Speaker 5 (56:31):
You can save the money and go ahead and sign
him to a deal after after a bad playoff performance,
right versus saying, oh, all right, well we're gonna we're
gonna play hardball here. Take this all the way at
the end. And you you look at a quarterback circumstance
league wide and you're like, oh, well, this CJ. Stroud
guy is pretty effective. And now you're you're a year
behind the sticks and and everything. Where like we we saw,

(56:53):
you know, Jerry do that with Dak. We've seen that
with with a couple of quarterback contract situations where I
want to just go ahead and get it done, especially
in a situation where late in this game, you have
Hutchinson on spa lane, and he's opened by four yards,
there's nobody around CJ. Stroud, and he leaves the ball
six yards short. Like I think you could take like

(57:14):
this was especially bad. Yeah, And I think we can
just jump this and trash it and not say that
this is evidence to the long term viability of CJ.

Speaker 9 (57:23):
Stroud as a football player.

Speaker 4 (57:24):
I think if you're going to get that deal done, though,
you have to do so with the intent to try
to improve the situation around him, because we also need
to consider the fact that they made Bobby Slow their
scapegoat last year and changed offensive coordinators and didn't I mean,
I guess they acknowledge that their offensive line was bad
and they tried to improve it, but I don't think
they got any better play call Jim mark Kley in
his first year. Like that's not enough, right, So if

(57:45):
you're going to do that, you got to marry it,
and you got to also understand that I think he's
dealing with some residual effects from what he went through
last year, and you got to bring him back to
like reset and get back to who he is if
you're going to give him that contract. But you could
buy low coming off of this game, which could help
your franchise in the salary.

Speaker 1 (57:58):
Cap for the long term, but that's fair.

Speaker 2 (58:01):
But he does have two years left to be clear,
so it's not like they're taking They would be taking
it down to the wire. We'll probably be hitting on
this during the offseason. The crazy thing is looking at
the next gen stats right now, it's like they actually
had a slightly higher success rate than the Patriots in
this game.

Speaker 9 (58:15):
Now.

Speaker 2 (58:16):
Obviously Drake Mango's for way more yards for attempt because
he hits. He hits some big ones, but they were
both were going up against good defenses. I think kind
of the takeaway is like, look, the Patriots also forced
these these turnovers, they forced the field goals. And I
do think Demiko is such a good coach in so
many ways, such a great defensive coach. You got to

(58:36):
have answers on how to help your offense, and you've
got to have better answers in game management. Like they
blew and this is on the entire operation, not necessarily
just him. They blew two timeouts in the second half.
They did that punt that you mentioned, which was the
worst surrender punt I've ever seen.

Speaker 1 (58:52):
So someone went and checked you're making a face.

Speaker 5 (58:56):
No, I think show's right. I think the opportunities for
will Anderson the top.

Speaker 3 (59:01):
No, No, it's true. It's true. It's just depressing, but
it's true.

Speaker 2 (59:05):
It's fourth and eighteen, so the game's over like either way,
but you're down twelve points with under four minutes to go.
Someone looks for similar punts in a under five minutes
to go in a playoff game down score two scores.
They found one example actually, which I found hilarious. Ron
Rivera punted with two minutes and six seconds left down

(59:26):
twelve in the Super Bowl on fourth and twenty eight.
He was just like, asker it, I'm getting out of here,
like on his own six yard line or something like that.
He was just like, fourth and twenty eight, I'm not bothering,
which is basically what he did. And you know, of
all the moments though, like Marx's fumble, I thought was
maybe the biggest play in the game, yep, because Marx
fumbles as they're potentially going in, you know, they're at

(59:51):
that point they had cut it already to what five points,
it's twenty one to to No, it's twenty one to
thirteen at that point, and their kind of roll no
offense and Marx fumbles in the you know, in the
red zone. So uh, let's let's give some just quick
shoutouts because I want to say goodbye to this Texans defense,
and I just want to give some love to like
Will Anderson and daneil Hunter and Henry Totoe who is

(01:00:15):
awesome down the stretch this season, and Kamari Lassiter today
with three pass breakups. He gave a one catch on
seven targets.

Speaker 1 (01:00:24):
He was that dude.

Speaker 2 (01:00:26):
Jalen Petrie was really active in this game. Togy. I, Uh,
you're right. I was being a little harsh on the
Texans earlier. This This was a special defense.

Speaker 1 (01:00:35):
They deserved better.

Speaker 3 (01:00:36):
Thank you, Thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:00:39):
Listen to one more Texans highlight. Why not Eric cut it?
Let's get our money's worth.

Speaker 8 (01:00:44):
Texans flaffing at the mouth on defense.

Speaker 9 (01:00:46):
I'm this stirddam situation.

Speaker 12 (01:00:48):
May calls for the ball, here's the rush, Here it
comes Will, the.

Speaker 8 (01:00:51):
Ball is out, The Texans have it hus these falls
on it take away for the Texans.

Speaker 1 (01:00:58):
The terminator strikes again.

Speaker 3 (01:01:01):
I know it doesn't matter now, but in that moment,
I was like, oh wait they might actually come back.

Speaker 2 (01:01:05):
Oh yeah, I thought they were. I thought they were
coming back because that defense is just scary. That was
Mark Vandermuir for the final time on Kilt. But yeah,
on the other side, to give some that out there too,
calebon Chase on four quarterback hits in this game, forced
forced a turnover. You mentioned that Milton Williams and Christian Barmore,
they were living in the backfield. There were a lot
of tackles for lost in this game. Christian Gonzales fifteen targets.

(01:01:29):
He was targeted fifteen times in this game, which is outrageous.
Only gave up sixty seven yards on those fifteen targets
eight catches, but they were for short. Carlton Davis who
left with a brain injury, two interceptions, four passes defense,
and then how about Zach Kerr not allow of Zach
Kerr love the defensive play caller a good couple of
weeks here, you know wherever Zach Kerr goes like everyone

(01:01:53):
is just questioning the quarterbacks after the fact, you know, controversy.

Speaker 9 (01:01:58):
Oh wow, it's like the grim Reaper. I don't know.

Speaker 5 (01:02:00):
The Carlton Davis Dick game, by the way, those two
dicks were low probability and he got both of them.

Speaker 2 (01:02:06):
It's sort of what I was getting at too, like
like sometimes it is about making those plays if you
think about the plays on the ball, like Stefan Diggs, Booty,
Carlton Davis. They just they made the plays on the
ball in a difficult situation. Stephan Diggs with a great quote.
He was asked how did he catch that missile from
Drake May and he said, with my hands.

Speaker 9 (01:02:28):
He also credited May for the past, but he's worked,
He's worked on the hands a lot. It was.

Speaker 1 (01:02:34):
It was an incredible catch up first thoughts, just very quickly.

Speaker 10 (01:02:38):
UH.

Speaker 1 (01:02:39):
Patriots playing at Denver in the AFC Championship game next week.
That's going to be the earlier game.

Speaker 2 (01:02:48):
It's the same schedule as this Sunday in terms of timing,
so it's a three pm Eastern noon Best Coast Patriots
at Broncos. Bringing back some bad memories of the Broncos
taken down New England and the AFC Championship a couple
times in the Tom Brady Peyton Manning era. I think
they're zero and three in Denver all time, UH. In

(01:03:09):
the playoffs and then the trilogy will be completed. I
feel like no offense to the AFC. But it feels
right that the Rams and the Seahawks are finishing the
day because I think these have been the best two
teams in the NFL all season. It almost didn't happen,
but I think we've been leading here all season and
they will face off for probably the right to be

(01:03:32):
the favorites for whatever that's worth, in the Super Bowl
in Santa Clara in a couple of weeks. I'll give
you the floor shook of, just like just some quick thoughts.
We'll obviously be talking about it during the week.

Speaker 4 (01:03:42):
Well, my takeaway was going to be shout out to
the schedule makers, Mike North, everybody else in the NFL
office the three four five part, because you got it right.
You put the better game of the two in the
later windows.

Speaker 3 (01:03:52):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:03:53):
They don't have a choice. They go back and forth
every year, so it's like it'll be a.

Speaker 3 (01:03:58):
We're going to throw all that aside. Take.

Speaker 4 (01:04:01):
Yeah, the take is I can't wait to see Ram
Seahawks part three, just because if you look at the
way they played this season, I feel like the Rams
stile the first one, the Seahawks stole the second one.
We're going back to Seattle Place is going to be
raucus in Matthew Stafford find a way to continue to
sling in against this great defense that seems to be peaking.
The Seahawks look like the best team in football. Are
they going to complete their run of the Super Bowl

(01:04:21):
or Stafford gonna play the foil?

Speaker 3 (01:04:22):
We'll find out.

Speaker 5 (01:04:23):
Yeah, a lot of attention being paid understandably to Sam's
oblique where I think that will be a factory.

Speaker 9 (01:04:31):
I think he will need to play better.

Speaker 5 (01:04:33):
I don't think he'll actually need to play it didn't
even really need to play against the forty nine ers.

Speaker 9 (01:04:37):
And you know, we'll see what Stitty has.

Speaker 5 (01:04:40):
What Stitty has in store for us, because it feels
like the universe kind of robbed of an opportunity to
see the high variance version of bo Nicks, who could
absolutely beat this Patriots team. He could absolutely lose this
Patriots team, but man, it will be fun to watch.

Speaker 2 (01:04:55):
Yeah, Nick Foles, you know, still enjoying that Super Bowl
victory as should did send out a note for the
Broncos and their fans that it's been an emotional twenty
four hours. He feels for bow and the team, and
he's sending prayers for a strong recovery. But a positive
note going into the game versus the Patriots is that
they struggle against backup quarterbacks in championship type games.

Speaker 1 (01:05:18):
Good job there, Nick Foles.

Speaker 9 (01:05:20):
He brings it all back to the old old Nick.

Speaker 2 (01:05:24):
I mean, why not just twist it in? Why not
know it's a good job. And I look, I'm higher
than Jared Stidham than consensus. I have always been for
what it's worth. It was that one game against the
Raiders like four years three years ago.

Speaker 1 (01:05:37):
Now that's good.

Speaker 9 (01:05:39):
Doesn't even care about Jaredson.

Speaker 1 (01:05:41):
Well, everyone thinks he's just a total joke.

Speaker 3 (01:05:44):
It feels like you're positioning yourself for I told you
I was right. Situation now now, No, I.

Speaker 2 (01:05:49):
Think the Patriots should be favored by a little or
whatever you know because of that. But I as backup
quarterbacks go, I'm trusting Sean Payton. He gave this man
two con tracks. He's a Day one signing. And uh,
I'm going back to that preseason tape because I remember it, Schucky,
I don't.

Speaker 1 (01:06:06):
I don't know if you remember. We were we were
hitting some preseason reached.

Speaker 3 (01:06:10):
The preseason quarterback of the year.

Speaker 2 (01:06:12):
We call them preseason MVP this year. Yeah, that's why
you tune in in August. Patrick, I love it.

Speaker 9 (01:06:19):
I'm dialed up.

Speaker 5 (01:06:19):
Are something that Jared Stillham sitting on the throne wearing
his Patriots jersey. Uh, picture that we'll be looking at
all week. I'm gonna love it. I can't wait.

Speaker 4 (01:06:27):
You go watch that tape against the Niners. By the way,
that's where the super Bowl is gonna be played. Maybe
he'll be back there.

Speaker 10 (01:06:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (01:06:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:06:32):
And if you think bo Nix is a high variance quarterback,
wait till you see Jared stead Of. That's a big
arm athlete who's uh. I think he's gonna go down swinging.
It's either gonna go great or go tear.

Speaker 5 (01:06:45):
Quarterbacks available Auburn transfer quarterback?

Speaker 3 (01:06:49):
Why not just stack them all up?

Speaker 9 (01:06:50):
What's doing?

Speaker 1 (01:06:51):
Man? Uh?

Speaker 2 (01:06:53):
Not the game that we expected, But I feel somehow
like the game that this version of the AFC in
this just totally weird wide open season kind of deserve
So the Patriots, the Broncos, the top two seeds.

Speaker 9 (01:07:06):
Yeah, the committee got it right.

Speaker 1 (01:07:08):
Get to the end this year. We will be back,
not on Monday night, back in the feed.

Speaker 2 (01:07:15):
Actually, I think the next thing you'll Hear from Us
is a forties and free Agents episode where we go
through all the AFC teams and what they need to
do this offseason. I'm enjoying this exercise and kind of
just just a quick look at the free agents, all
that sort of stuff, and then back in this studio
with the CEEU next Tuesday crew Colleen Wolf and Jordan
rod Ray. On Tuesday, Big Week Ahead Championship Week, coaches

(01:07:41):
are getting hired. Shuck's gotta go right, Patrick's taking his
tie off. We're getting out of here.

Speaker 1 (01:07:49):
We're down to four teams, three games. See you Monday,