The Most Interesting NFL Defenses of 2025

Gregg Rosenthal and old friend Ollie Connolly (readoptional.substack.com) join forces to discuss 10 of the most interesting NFL defenses heading into the new football season. From an established defensive unit in Minnesota to budding juggernauts in Seattle and Green Bay, the duo provides in-depth analysis and commentary on players, coaches and schemes that are set to impress in 2025.

(0:00) - Start

(4:14) - Miami Dolphins

(9:40) - Minnesota Vikings

(17:29) - Seattle Seahawks

(24:28) — Green Bay Packers

(31:30) — San Francisco 49ers

(35:19) — Houston Texans

(37:43) — Pittsburgh Steelers

(41:55) — Cincinnati Bengals

(44:15) — Arizona Cardinals 

(46:53) — Baltimore Ravens

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome to NFL Daily, where the rumors aren't true. I'm
not taking over for Shannon Sharp on first take, I'm
Greg Rossdal I'm here in a whole new world for
NFL media, and I'm so happy to be talking to
the man who I stole that joke from, basically Olie
Connelly reporting from across the pond. No, you know, what

(00:27):
a great day for you to be on the day
after ESPN and NFL Media announced the large and confusing partnership.

Speaker 2 (00:36):
Yeah, it's gonna be me and then Steven A and
then they got the WWE over at the world wide lead.
Roman Rains will come on after me. What a great
time for you.

Speaker 1 (00:44):
I have got a lot of questions, Like NFL dailies here,
NFL Daily is not going anywhere. We are excited about
everything coming up this season and next season. Jordan's locked
in and it's gonna be fun. So I don't think
this season there's gonna be anyes to your NFL Daily
programming for everyone out there and beyond.

Speaker 3 (01:05):
We're feeling good about it.

Speaker 1 (01:06):
But yeah, I don't think I'm getting that chair next
to stephen A. I don't even think i'd get Lenny's chair,
you know, and the Mina kaa and he doesn't have
a speaking role, so you're stuck with me here, and
I'm excited to have you on Oli.

Speaker 3 (01:19):
We're gonna dive deep. This show is.

Speaker 1 (01:21):
The most interesting defense show, and by that I just
mean a defense you want to talk about. It's not
necessarily a prediction who's going to be the best, although
I did pick some of the better ones, but some
are not just ones that we find fascinating. In the
year twenty twenty five, partly inspired by a great piece
you wrote about on your sub stack that everyone should

(01:45):
should sign up for. Check out Ollie Connolly and he's
back doing the podcast also with John Ledyard. You wrote
about the influence that Rex Ryan has had over this
generation of defenses and you said something to me like
you got a lot of feedback from this, I think
around the league, and it's funny how Rex Ryan has
actually maybe become like an underrated figure in recent NFL history.

Speaker 2 (02:09):
Yeah. I think is purely because of the caricature and
how it ended as a head coach. And people will
just throw foot jokes at me all the time, and
I don't think they've quite seen the I think everyone
is well aware of the blit centric stuff in the league,
maybe some of the more granular stuff around similar depressions
and all these kind of buzzwords people use, and that
was all Rex's creation. Even Sabam will go and say

(02:30):
every single thing I took at Alabama stems somewhere down
the line from Rex Ryan. And if you just go
through all the staffs of the best defenses in the league,
all of them have someone with an association to Rex.
Down to all the mad cap stuff Brian Flores is doing.
He gets Mike Petton. You go and see what Vance
Joseph does and how he changes the Broncos defense. It's
Jim Lennard, a guy who played under Rex, and will

(02:51):
give Rex the credit for all the invitive stuff he
did at Wisconsin. So just on and on down the line.
Even guys like Fanjo as the league kind of moved
and evolved into this pressure and disguise that we see defensively,
just went it said, well, what's the one thing I
can at least take from Rex? Where it's like big
picture ideology, all the specifics of game planning and specific structures.
They've just rubbed the guy blind and he gets absolutely

(03:12):
zero credit for it, because he's kind of confusing and
weird and just looks like he's checked out of the game.
Were talks on your you know, your new bosses main
network over there, I guess, And so it just made
in this kind of like laughable figure, Robin the loadable guy.
I think you should be right on, you know, up
there on the Mount rushmov of defensive guys in the
modern age.

Speaker 1 (03:30):
Yeah, we're we're talking you know, specific defenses. So it's
not just about trends in the league. But I think
if you when we're talking about them, you'll see that
influence and some of the more creative, maybe even Gonzo
type defenses. Yeah, it does get you thinking about those
those old Jets teams.

Speaker 3 (03:47):
And I should have mentioned the name.

Speaker 1 (03:49):
Of course before of your sub stack and the podcast
check out Ali Connelly's read optional like, look, ESPN's coming
on board. They said we're going to be investing more
in NFL, that we're gonna have more sources more you
know the podcast. So you know, I'm trying to get
Alli Connelly hired. I've been on that road for a
year without exact success. But so the best thing we

(04:09):
can do is at least sell them, sell some substacks,
and sell some subscriptions. Because that podcast is outstanding. Why
don't you get started. You can pick any team you
want most interesting defense, and we'll just go back and
forth picking teams.

Speaker 2 (04:22):
Most interesting. One I think for me is maybe the
Dolphins slightly confusing reasons which I think they have this
outstanding defensive coordinator, the potential to have if healthy, and
that's a major riff with those guys up from one
of the best fronts in the league. And then it's
an absolute disaster class on the back end, and I
think the GM could undo everything that could be great

(04:43):
about this unit.

Speaker 1 (04:45):
That sounds like a lot of the last fifteen years
of the Dolphins history. Not just blame it at all
on Chris Greer, but more like the coach and the
GM not always on the same page. You think back,
we're going to get to Flores, but you think back
of how his tenure ended. They won eight of their
last nine games with Brian Flores as head coach and

(05:06):
Steven Ross the ownership, you know, said it right after
the season when he fired him. The reason was that
he was essentially not getting along with the front office,
which included ownership, but also the GM Chris career and
maybe some of his coaches.

Speaker 3 (05:21):
He ran through coaches. He was not faultless there, but
I think.

Speaker 2 (05:24):
He changed offensive play goals five times in five weeks
from memories, so he made some mistakes.

Speaker 1 (05:30):
I will I think you could be better a second
time around. That's another topic, but yeah, it's a little
bit endemic. And you mentioned a good defensive coordinator kind
of what did you see out of year one? We
had Anthony Weaver on the show actually in the middle
of last season, and yeah, he's a fascinating guy in
terms of what he runs. Do you think he'll be
able to run what he wants with a back end
that yeah, cornerback one, I guess is Storm Duck in.

(05:54):
Cornerback two's Jack Jones. I guess Mike Hilton's in the slot.
You did bring Minka Fitzpatrick back. It's a weird group,
but the front, the defensive line I think people have
kind of forgotten with Jalen Phillips and Bradley Chubb coming
back from injury is pretty awesome, so that there is
potential there. What did you see at a Weaver specifically
and how he might use this group?

Speaker 2 (06:13):
Yeah, we've had just lifted up Mike McDonald's defense from Baltimore,
which he helped Bill dropped it in Miami as a
lot of these teams are trying to deal right with
Denard Wilson and Tennessee and elsewhere around the league some
of what's happening with Minta with the Chargers, and it's
probably the most successful replication of it we've seen. That's
the best defense Mike McDaniel has had, and I think
gets lost in the shuffle since he's been there with

(06:35):
all the injuries and all the caveats to that stuff.
With a horrific mistackle rate last season, and so it's
all the exact same Baltimore stuf, which is, let's be
as malleable and multiple upfront as possible. Every single kind
of body, type of pass rusher and defensive lineman you
can have, we can attack you in all kinds of
different ways. And on the back end, it's disguising and
rotating and just trying to get a vision on the ball.
So when you get these unusual and orthodox guys bringing

(06:57):
pressure to the quarter back, he's just thrown at the
spots field hoping for the best, and you try and
generate turn ups that way, and that to me is
the real confusing thing with what they did in the
off season, which is everything that they're about is vision
on the ball. That's like the main thing in the
defensive backfield. And you come away with Jack Jones and
Mike Hilton, who are just like classic nuisance bump and

(07:18):
rum old hand vets.

Speaker 3 (07:20):
All their playmakers.

Speaker 2 (07:21):
Come on, where are the playmakers outside of Minka, which
I think is is a good pick up because Ramsey
was leaving anyway, probably the best they could do from that.
Storm Duck is the one that makes me really cackle.
He's like getting a lot of hype and I truly
believe his name was like Richard Smith, norm would care.
This is an undrafted pH agent from a year ago
who got fried when he was on the field and
meaningful snaps. He has a fun name. He's a cool guy.

(07:42):
But other than that, Cam Smith is still here for
reasons that remain unclear, and they.

Speaker 1 (07:46):
Might yeah, second round pick from a couple of years,
but just hearing the camp reports, it doesn't sound great
for him.

Speaker 2 (07:52):
No. I think one of the only reasons he's there
he's really good friends with Chris Grisson, and it's like, well,
we drafted him in the second round, we'll keep him around.
That was supposed to be kind of like zone based
vision on the ball, playmaking corner. It's being a disaster.
Even the safeties they brought into Melafon Win Davis. Melafon
was a converted corner again, more complaining the slot and
play man coverage for you, Davis more of a rundown enforcer.

(08:13):
And so you're left relying on Jack Jones not I
see it, you know, trigger it zone corner, Jason marshaf
Margan not to see it, trigger its zone corner. And
so you've built not just that, you've not put the
resources into the group, you've brought in people who in
no way represent or fit what this really excellent defensive
coach is trying to build.

Speaker 1 (08:32):
And yet I hear all that and you're and you're right,
And I love hearing that what you're saying about Jack Jones,
because you know, I see Jack Jones and I think about.

Speaker 3 (08:39):
Well, what about that? What about that play against the Chargers?

Speaker 1 (08:42):
That was a play that was him making a play
like he's had some big time plays, but his strength
not fitting with this scheme. I think is so endemic
of what's plaguing the Dolphins organization really for the last
fifteen years, and it's continued in this Mike McDaniel era.
And yet, you know, just for people that are kind
of tuning in now and haven't been as locked in. Look,
Jalen Phillips, when he's been healthy and he's coming off

(09:03):
two major injuries, is an incredible pass rusher.

Speaker 3 (09:07):
Bradley Chubb, I.

Speaker 1 (09:07):
Don't think you can expect him to be at his peak,
but if he is your third rusher with Chop Robinson
who finished last year like a hair, you know, with
his hair on fire, like big time playmaker. They just
gave Zach Seeler some well deserved money. And then you
draft Kenneth Grant, who's an interesting guy in the middle
in the first round. That is a lot of talent.
And you have Jordan Brooks at linebacker who's good for them,

(09:30):
and in Tyrold Dots and they brought in like there
are players here, So I like you picking them as interesting.
They were not on my long list, but you're right
they are. I don't want to just pick the best defense.
Actually I'll just move forward. Then I will pick the
Vikings because of the connection here. But just like it
would be wrong, I think not to mention them and
the Vikings are in this interesting place. Could they have

(09:51):
the next Spags in that because Brian Flores's tenure in
Miami ended with him essentially fighting with ownership and then
more importantly, frankly, I want to believe in a world
where NFL owners and gms look past the legis. You know,
the lawsuit between Brian Flores in the NFL, and there

(10:13):
was like a little more buzz last year that he
could get some head coaching interest, but obviously it didn't happen.
I'd like to think he's going to get another chance,
because you would think he's matured and learn some things,
maybe about how to run the entire team in offense.
But in the meantime, Ollie, he's now entering year three
with like a wild combination of talent that he can

(10:37):
coach up and continuity of guys that understand his system.
Josh Mattelis, who I know you love, said like they
feel like they're entering the graduate level of the program
with Brian Flores, and in a way, the Vikings are
benefiting from the fact that he can't get a head
coaching job anymore, and it just makes them to me,
must watch on Sundays all season long this year.

Speaker 2 (10:58):
Yeah, they're always the most fast because you never know
what he's going to do from season to season, week
to week. He's an absolute lunatic, and I say that
in the most respectful, loving way. He does things that
are like one hundred year old orthodoxy. He's like, I
don't care about any of that. That stuff is nonsense.
He's the only true, like aute artist we have in
defensive football right now. I feels from everyone else and

(11:19):
this guy just views it completely differently. And Kevin O'Connell,
to his great credit, says, Brian doesn't need to interact
with anyone else in the building. That's not his strength.
He can go down the corridor and do all this
crazy stuff and we'll release himTo the hounds on Sunday
and let him go have some fun. I think that
is probably the best way to approach Florest. I do
think he has mature and he's maybe softened ever so slightly,

(11:39):
But I don't think just battling with ownership is the issue.
At the end night, it's battling with all of ownership
every single owner in the league, I think is probably
more of the issue we'll have moving forward. But yeah,
to what you said, the continuity they have now and
what he's able to do. They change the nuances of
their system more than anyone else in the NFL week
to week in terms of how they get to what
they want to get to. That is so impossibly difficult

(12:03):
to do, to have all the players execute that, to
even stream up some of the stuff he does. And
then by the middle point of last year was when
he was kind of flipping back and forth between two
completely different styles and structures of defense game to game.
I don't even know how they pulled it off. So
now to have an extra year in that where there
will be new layers, new things we've probably never seen before,
and they can flip between all three different iterations that

(12:24):
defense no matter the week, with all the subtilties within it,
I just don't know how you can keep up with that.
And now he could just say my new innovation is
I have a dominant down four and I'll just let
those guys roll. All the other stuff is out, and
people still be scared of me because the Brian Florer
is effect they'll still be wondering what's going to happen.
But I can just let Greenard and Allen and Hargrave
and the new guys are all off the ball.

Speaker 3 (12:43):
Yeah you meant you mentioned those new guys.

Speaker 1 (12:45):
And I do love the idea of Brian Flores as
the last true auteur as a coach. He's like the
Paul Thomas Anderson. He's just he's just in the middle
of his like run of like Magnolia and why am
I blanking on the name of the Adam Sale in
their movie Punch Drunk Love, and like he is in
the middle of his absolute prime. There will be blood

(13:07):
coming up, and there will be blood.

Speaker 3 (13:09):
So there.

Speaker 1 (13:11):
Just to remind people what this defense looks like. There's
kind of who I would define as like the Vikings specials,
Like they're really great players, but I think they're better
because they're with the Vikings and they have that continuity.

Speaker 3 (13:25):
And that's kind of what I was talking about before.

Speaker 1 (13:26):
I would throw Josh Mattellus in that group, who's you know,
a safety defensive back hybrid. Harrison Smith to me is
kind of in that group now because he's clearly more
effective with Flores than he was with with the last regime,
at least his last couple of years there, Like Ivan
Pace is a crazy just piece to throw out there.
Blake Cashman has been really great for Minnesota. Andrew Van
Ginkel is a talented player who is very good in

(13:48):
Miami and has been doing great with the Vikings. And
Byron Murphy is someone who has said out loud like
man that first year was tough to adapt to everything
they wanted me to do, and now like looks like
a cornerback one. And so there's that that group of guys,
and then there's this group of you mentioned Javon Hargrave
and Jonathan Allen, two of the better defensive interior guys
will see what they have left like hired guns, and

(14:09):
this edge group that's just really talented. Van Ginkle's in
that group too, but Jonathan Grenard and they have a
first round pick and Dallas Turner that you're hoping you
can get something. So it's like this mix of the
guys that have been there and just pure talent and
florist can unleash it all. And I love everything that
you said about He doesn't have to be as crazy
because now when he does want to get crazy out
of nowhere with like a second half game plan in

(14:31):
week three, like they won't know what's coming.

Speaker 2 (14:34):
Yeah, And it all has his force multiplying effect. His
kind of great asset is understanding every single kind of protection,
putting something on the field to set it for the offense.
So he knows you have to be in that protection
based the look at my defense, and I now have
the pressure path or stunt autoist to break the thing
down just by design. That's going to get broken down
when you have talented one on one players. It's just

(14:56):
more effortless to do that. You have to want less
investment in the from to be able to do that
kind of stuff. And so both the format rush will
be amplified when they all bail out, when they mug
everyone up and they bail out, and then when they
do some heat again, you just have got design one
on ones across the board. So I don't see any
way there's like a fall down to worth in any sense.
I just think they're too smart, too savvy. Now they've

(15:18):
just got a way higher floor because the talent base
is just way greater than it used to be. Even
as I'm in pace is not like a technically good linebacker,
and I can't think of anyone more perfect for Bran
Flores wants to do, which is a guy who just
makes everyone panic. The first step is so electric, everyone
is terrified at all times. And so now that you
have I think even the rotation down the depth chart,

(15:40):
Dallas Turner could barely get on the field last year,
completely confused on what to do. Who knows what he
could look like. They're saying they're going to move him
around a whole bunch more this year and he's gonna
be one of the fun pieces for Flora. So they
just have an unbelievable level of depth and continuity. And
now the guys they've added on only improved the places
where they're already strong.

Speaker 1 (15:57):
Honestly, Yeah, and it'll help out JJ mccar I think
the schedule too early in the season is relatively favorable.
If they can be a defensive first team, they don't
have to be as aggressive on offense. It also gives
the potential, finally of the Jeff of Kuda oh renaissance.

Speaker 3 (16:14):
I still have on Jeff.

Speaker 2 (16:16):
No no, I am going down. My island is sinking.
I still have Peach from property as the waves a lot.

Speaker 1 (16:21):
Of Mina is the only one that I also have heard.
I think she maybe is given up. But he is
only twenty six years old. And I don't know if
you've been tracking this, Ali, but the camp reports have
been really solid that like, it's actually not a battle.

Speaker 3 (16:34):
He's just going to be their starter.

Speaker 1 (16:36):
And if anyone's got to turn his career around, maybe
it's Brian Flores.

Speaker 2 (16:40):
I have been a beloved believer for a long time.
This does happen with him and Nefri Camp he goes
into because he's just like picture built from a lab
pro cornaback. We'll see when the real bullets stopped flying
if he can say healthy too. But I will I
will never give up on Couter at this point. And
he's one of those plays where when you're about to
give up, but then he gets the sign off from
Brian Floris, you go, Okay, Brian does way more football

(17:02):
than I do. I'm backing.

Speaker 3 (17:03):
Hey, I'm a great example.

Speaker 1 (17:04):
Never give up on your main loves because it could
it could take like eight seasons and then Gina Smith
finally gets a chance and you get to plant that
flag and enjoy it as much as possible. Yeah, I
would recommend like it was your Brian floor. I don't
know what week it was. You and You and John
did a Brian Flores episode in the middle of last
season that to me was like was peak read option.

(17:25):
I was like, these guys are operating at another level.
People should be listening to to this the Brian Flores episode.
People check that out, all right, give me another interesting defense.

Speaker 3 (17:33):
For this year.

Speaker 2 (17:34):
I think the Seahawks. My take is I think they're
gonna be the best unit in the league by the ends.
So many issues to start last season. You got Mike
McDonald comes over, the big name off the market. Everyone's
trying to replicate what he's doing. Anyway, he gets to
Seattle's I'm gonna try all this stuff. None of it works.
All the stuff he brought from Baltimore completely failure falls

(17:55):
on its face, silly on. He spends six seven weeks
the season changing his front every single week, desperately try
and find anything that will work. And then as he
kind of pulls away elements of his traditional system, they
start to take off. They simplify things, they get better,
and by the end of the season, I thought they
were playing get really higher level. They had a ton
of communication issues. Ernest Jones I think was responsible for
some of that because he came in late obviously, and

(18:17):
so that stuff I think will get cleaned up within
the rough season. They've got a ton of continuity, and
I think going into the year one, he just realized
I got a ton of one on one talent and
difference make beers that I maybe didn't have off the
edge in Baltimore, and then I can start adding in
more of the Mike McDonald's fun stuff. In a way
I maybe tried to put too much of it into
the fold early on last season. So now we just
get our base defense is really talented, and then I

(18:39):
can kind of scheme my way through to elevate it slightly.

Speaker 1 (18:42):
Yeah, you mentioned Ernest Jones, and it was interesting. I
think it was Julian Love on Mena's podcast, by the
way that he kind of explained not trying to throw anyone.

Speaker 3 (18:53):
He said it very gently.

Speaker 1 (18:56):
But Ernest Jones helped when he arrived because the previous
linebackers really I just didn't think understood the concepts. And
the Seahawks kind of told you what they thought about
that when they traded like a big creagent pick up
Tyrel Dodson in the middle of the season, so I
think they feel better about the linebacker position then certainly
they did a year ago. They have a second year
guy in Tyree Knight who will also get some snaps.
But you know, what's fascinating to me is how the

(19:19):
coverage and the front match up with this team, because
there is a lot of talent in both spots, especially
the front. It's just so deep and I'm trying not
to fall for the thing of just like man, I
just like a lot of names. I like, how can
you not like a defense with DeMarcus Lawrence and Leonard
Williams on the same team. And then you do have
some younger players like like boy Mafe and we'll see

(19:41):
if a Chennon Nuoso gets healthy in terms of the
edge guys. But there's a lot of like really smart
football players. And yeah, you hope it's that combination of
continuity and talent that arrive in in year two, kind
of like you know they did in Baltimore for Mike McDonald,
because it took a little while for it to get
going there too.

Speaker 2 (20:00):
Yeah, it's a weird one because I understand what you're
saying about that the guys couldn't pick up a linebacker,
but the system is purposely built to be kind of
idiot proof. That's how Mike McDonald does what he does.
He approaches defensive football the same way the offensive guys do,
where it's I've run the same stuff over and over again,
we just package it slightly different, so everything is really
easy to teach. And I don't have, you know, like
Spagnolo or Evans Joys have fifteen twenty different pressures for

(20:22):
every single front and everything that could get thrown at them.
McDonald isn't built that way. He's like, these are the
three for the week. We'll dress it up eight different
ways so it looks different to everyone else, so it's
really easy to get across. They just had no communication
between linebacker level and the front, even when Ernist, Joe
and Scott there. I actually thought that it was kind
of an easy out for everyone to write during the
season like, well he arrived, they got better, Whereas if

(20:44):
you watch them play, he was constantly all over the place,
communicating poorly, particularly to the front. He was really good
on the ball and impacting the game, particularly in coverage,
but actually getting people lined up was a real issue.
For them last season, So just being able to be
in the right spots, maybe being able to roll up
more of the of the old Baltimore system I think
will help. But they would they finish fourth in pressure

(21:04):
rate anyway, and they weren't running an awful lot of
the mcdonald' stuff back the end of the season. So
I think they can just go out and play base
football and hammer people, honestly, and then if they can
sprinkle some some new stuff on, that's maybe where they
get to that Mora league level.

Speaker 1 (21:17):
Yeah, the biggest question to me is kind of the secondary,
the boomer bus nature of it. I think we know
who Devin Witherspoon is. You know, he's a great young player.
But you think of Rieke Wollen, and you think of
their draft pick Nick Emnwari, who they drafted to kind
of be a you know, safety, linebacker hybrid whatever he
is going to be. And those two guys have a

(21:37):
very high ceiling and they might have a low floor,
and then the depth behind them kind of at the
other outside corner spot, like right now it's Josh Job
in training camp and they're kind of searching a little
bit there. That the secondary just feels like a little
boomer bust potentially for me, Like, what do you think
about that?

Speaker 3 (21:54):
That group in general?

Speaker 2 (21:56):
I agree with you. I do think that the way
they play is really just like Sea bull get, which
should make it easier for everyone else. And having Witherspoon
means you can do some funky coverage stuff that can
kind of correct an awful lot of issues for you
and em and Warry just feels perfect to me. For
the first year. You may not be where we need
you to be in terms of all the different stuff
we want to do, but as a guy who is
just like head down, charge ahead, you know, I think

(22:17):
that he can have an impact for him. So there's
some concerns there. But if you just go throughout the league,
every single depth shot you look at you go out,
the cornerback room does not look so strong. I've been
trying to find who are the back in the roster,
guys you've maybe traded for, you'd you know, who are
going to get cut and it's worth giving them a shot.
A draft bussman that flamed out. It's really difficult to find.
All these teams feel one or two guys.

Speaker 1 (22:37):
Shit, yeah, you're reminding me of a point I was
listening to a team specific podcast, I always want to
give a shout out to who I'm like getting some
of this information from. It's called Blue fifty eight and
the host of it does a great job. Is just
one guy talking about the Packers, and they were talking
about possible concerns of you know, what could be their
problem this year, and he was talking about the kind

(22:58):
of offensive line depth you know, betually County on. These
guys like Belton and Jordan Morgan are their first guys
off the bench, but they really don't know if they're
good or not in some of the depth in the
secondary too. And I'm just thinking that's every team, actually,
the Packers to be have like literally, there's not a
team that feels good. I was like, you've got high
drafted picks with a little bit of experience in as

(23:19):
your backups. That's actually a plus because there is no
team out there that feels good. And you're absolutely right
at the cornerback position. We went along a little bit there.
We've only had three teams so far. We're going to
take a quick break. It's why I don't think I'm
getting that job on first take. They don't want to
do like nine minutes on why Brian Flores is the
new Rex Ryan. But that's fine, We'll be back right

(23:40):
after this back on NFL Daily. And yeah, you mentioned
like the Brian Klores Rex Ryan influence. I was thinking, well, maybe,
I mean, not to be reductive, but in terms of
changing game plans week to week and showing up with
some crazy stuff, I mean, he's he's still showing the

(24:00):
Bill Belichick legacy. He is the next generation of Bill
Belichick on some level. I mean that was Belichick's advantage too,
back in the Yachts, the ability to change the game
plan that much on a week to week basis in
a way the other teams could not.

Speaker 3 (24:11):
So Flores is maybe like the new generation Belichick.

Speaker 2 (24:14):
Too, would that game a second job? Can Bill make
the call? Give him into a crack as a head
goat somewhere?

Speaker 3 (24:20):
I don't think. I don't think that's gonna help. I
don't think.

Speaker 1 (24:22):
I don't think Bill can get a job in the
NFL anymore. Which is a crazy world we're living in.
But time comes for everyone, all right, Who should I
go with next? I'm going to choose a team, okay,
in the Packers that are interesting to me in a
way because they're not that interesting, like every year they

(24:42):
are the team for years, like where we looked at
and I thought, like, man, this is a top ten
talented defense, this is the defense. This is the year
it's finally going to happen for them, and then it
never happened. They're less than the some of their parts.
Everyone just blames Joe Berry. Well, Joe Berry has now
been gone for eighteen months, blames Joe Barry, and I
wanted to talk about him and see what you thought too, Olie,

(25:05):
because they just seem really important and I don't think
we've talked about them almost at all on this show,
like all off season. The Packers defense, they're just there.
And I don't know how many other defenses in the
NFL are literally starting four first round picks on the
defensive line, but the Packers are. And yet the expectations
are a little lower than they should be. To me,

(25:25):
you watched everything they did last year. Obviously some disappointing
play by like the personnel up front, But what did
you think about Jeff Hafley's influence coming from Boston College
back you know, into the NFL and coaching up this
Packers team and kind of what it means for where
they're at, because this is a team that some people
think will be in the Super Bowl, and I'm like,

(25:46):
is this a defense I can imagine in the Super Bowl?

Speaker 2 (25:50):
That's the tricky thing. I was really down on the
Jeff Halfley high to begin with, and he impressed me
way more than my expectations were going into it. He
was way more innovative and creative than I'd given him
credit for coming to the team. It was a lot
of the best of of what we're talking about with
Minter McDonald and that style of system where it's pressure
in disguise and marrying pressure with disguise, and now I
think in game arounds from the fact they don't have

(26:12):
as many dynamic one on one winners as they should do.
Given they invested for first round picks in the defensive line,
given that their starting linebacking corps a first round pick
and a second round pick, you think it would just
be filled with dynamic one on one winners. They to
me to scream, as they have to be a takeaway
defense that they're not going to be able to pressure
quite consistently enough without it being a game plan based
pressure to be able to just take over a game

(26:34):
in the postseason. So relying on takeaways is like a
fun thing in theory. But even last year they're takeaways
where they started the season really hot. That was a
lot of like individually great place. It wasn't so much
like disguising and freaking out quarterbacks by scheme. So it's
tricky just bank on was Zavian McKinney is gonna have
two of the wildest interceptions you are ever going to
see in pro football, just as back to back weeks.

(26:56):
It's just difficult to bank on that the only thing
they really have that's like, okay, where there's the development
come from. I thought Nate Hobbs was a really smart,
savvy pickup in FRASI. And then it's Edge Cooper, who
I truly believe has a chance talent wise to be
the best linebacker in the NFL. Now whether that comes
along early enough is a real question. He is way
behind where you wanting to be. I know he got

(27:17):
an All Pro vote or whatever, but his eyes are
all over the place. He just is the quickest player
in the league from basically any level, like pound for pound,
the most explosive player in the league, and they've messaged
all off season. We've got this edge Cooper package, You've
got a Quie walk up package. You got to get
those guys way more involved in the pass rush. And
that's kind of a tell to me that one he

(27:38):
still can't do all just the fundamental things. So you
got to build a specific package and then two our
pastors isn't quite good enough that we have to build
a separate thing to get maybe our most impactful behind
the line of scrimmage player on the field. More.

Speaker 1 (27:49):
That is fascinating on Cooper, and that linebacker group is
like a wild boom or bust group because you're saying
you think Edrin Cooper can be the best line in football.
Do you think he is a guy that's going to
be able to stay on the field every down and
like survive on passing downs?

Speaker 3 (28:06):
You think he can become that player.

Speaker 2 (28:08):
I think he'd become that play. The main thing for
the passing down is now all these guys thinking coverage
go through the best linebackers in the NFL. There's like
six good ones. That's basically it. So all to stay
on the field. Now, the most effective thing you can
do is be an effective blitzer and I think he's
going to become, if not this season, the following year,
the best blitzing linebacker in the NFL. So that is
already a wash that that works for us. We'll figure
the rest out in the back end. If we can

(28:29):
just get a coverage body on the field or we
put an extra defensive backfield, that's what we'll do. Being
able to blitz and drop is the name of the
game and just fall to the right spot and we'll
figure the rest out. That I think is should be
EASi and on the cards to him this season. It's
more of the subtleties and the wrong game and the communication.
No way, that's where he is just like pretty clueless. Still,
he is a straight line, you know, if the gap

(28:50):
is open, charged through the thing, and he does it
at frightening speed. It's more than the mechanics of the
position that I mean, it takes all these guys now
three years. It's why the linebackers fall so far in
the draft because they draw it as draft agay and
developed them over three seasons.

Speaker 1 (29:02):
Right, And so for him to show you that and
show the Packers that first step and the explosive ability
just jumps.

Speaker 3 (29:08):
Off the screen.

Speaker 1 (29:09):
That they could have something really special in three or four,
but it might be the toughest position in the entire
NFL to adapt quickly. So I mentioned the four first
round picks just to name him. Rashan Gary, who's now
another year removed from another serious injury, and so maybe
he's got a little more juice. They kind of need
him to. Kenny Clark is coming off one of his

(29:30):
worst seasons. He was actually drafted by the Packers before
Brian Gooden Kutz. I believe he has been there a
long time. That was twenty sixteen. And then DeVante Wyatt
and Lucas van Ness and they could really use you know,
Wyatt had improved play I think last year, and they
could really use him to keep progressing. And then they
could really use to get to something out of Lucas

(29:51):
van Ness and to help that pass rush. Kind of
this big, strong guy who hasn't really come through for
them so far. So that's up front, I guess if
you're looking at the upside, and I'm not as worried
about the cornerback position as some Packers fan. The safety
group of McKinney and Evan Williams is frisky and a
lot of fun. I mean, mckinnie's an All Pro and
Evan Williams I think was really interesting as a rookie.

(30:14):
And so that's maybe where this group could have a
little higher ceiling. How did you see how healthily kind
of used that group last year.

Speaker 2 (30:21):
Yeah, I'm not in any way concerned about the secondary. Honestly,
I think they'll be able to piece it together. We
just talked about the Vikings, who maybe the best events
in football are going to start, Jeff Akuda, who could
have been out the league at this point in his career.
The thing they lack is just speed off the ball
up from It's as simple that they don't have enough
explosive dip and rip speed. It's all power rushes, it

(30:43):
all takes an extra step that it needs to. It's
all f Lucas van ness or design pressure. I don't
know why they wouln't involved in the hassomritic thing over then,
like an organizational philosophical thing that we don't throw cash
it kind of want away for agents that that to
me is what they truly need. This secondary stuff is
it's all kind of coverage in disguise base and then

(31:03):
McKinney solves all our problems. That's kind of how they
built the thing on the back end. And I think
McKinney is so talented that's not going to go away.
So long as they get they can up the quick
pressure rate, which is just really really poor last season.

Speaker 1 (31:15):
For all the grief that the Giants' front office and
Joe Shane took for hard knocks and letting Saquon Barkley go,
they really didn't take enough grief for the Xavier McKinney
just let you walk and not.

Speaker 3 (31:25):
Be interested total like that would have been a good
guy to heap too. They could really use him. All right,
you go, give me another defense that you find interested.

Speaker 2 (31:36):
The Niners is the one for me where they are
the prototypical example in the off season of we write
down they have problem X, they address problem X with resources,
we assume that it's been solved. And I just don't
buy that this idea that they can stay in this
this base defense they have, which is to me now
just three years out of date with the rest of
the league. That they did back into the family tree

(31:58):
and they say, Bob Salah, please come back. And I
think Robert Sala's a good coach, but it just felt
like keeping everything within the family Robin trying to iterate
and try something different, and they want to still play
with a wide four down front, even on rundowns. And
they've just been cooked year after year. And so their
solution is, understandably, let's get younger and more athletic, and
we're going to draft all these guys, but those guys

(32:20):
are all going to play heavy snaps in year one.
And you just don't solve such a critical issue, which
is both structural based and personnel based, by saying we'll
throw three rookies on the field, they'll solve it for us.
It never works that way. The Rams were able to
get away with it slightly last season, but that's just
an anomaly. I just don't think you can bank on
our run defense, which triggers everything for us defensively, will

(32:40):
be fixed by three rookies.

Speaker 1 (32:42):
Right, Michael Williams, you know great Edgesetter that take they
take top fifteen, and they're hoping that the young defensive
tackles Alfred Colin, CJ.

Speaker 3 (32:50):
West.

Speaker 1 (32:50):
We talked about CJ. West the forties and free agents
with Daniel Jeremiah. Everyone subscribed by the way this week
that he's had a good camp, but you're right, it's risky.
And I want to go back to what you said
about Robert Salah and you thinking that maybe that scheme
is a little out of date and isn't gonna bring

(33:11):
about the old, the good old days for the forty
nine ers, Like I think a lot of the fans,
why do you think.

Speaker 2 (33:15):
That is playing in a four to five defense right
now in the league which other teams are doing. People
still take the Robert Salad influence. Not being involved in
kind of the blitz heavy or blitz in disguise world
where it basically all the other defenses we talked about
just feels like you're way too static for the modern
game and to do it. If you look at the
teams who are doing that, the Texans unbelievable defense, the

(33:38):
Eagles unbelievable defense, they're a bit more disguise based. In
the Niners. The thing they have is a lynch pin
maybe best player in our defense, Nickel Corner, who's offered
like a safety hybrid Cooper digit Jalen Petrie. Both of
them can truly play week sidelinebacker for you. So the
four to five can just blend into a four to
three whenever you need it to fixes the run game
element for you. You go through the Niners defense, they let

(33:59):
Telenoo Hafang go. I like j Brown, but he is
not just like a can play linebacker for you. They're
really excited about Upton Stout, a player I really really
like coming out of the draft, but he's five eight.
He's not gonna walk down for you and play linebackers.
So to just say you're going to play for an
even front in an era where all these offenses are
saying we are going to play two back power football,
We're going to pull a move everyone all the time.

(34:21):
We're it's not going to put the extra back on
the field, so we're going to overwhelm you up from
and you're saying we'll put four big guys down there
and try and match up with that. That's a reason
why no one else is doing that. Vic's not doing that,
none of these other teams are doing that. It works
for them in the passwish element. Structurally, I think it's
a real issue for them in the wrong game because
of the marriage of the safety to the front. And
I just don't believe Robert Sal's the kind of guy

(34:42):
who's going to have like a personality transplant overnight and
change the system. I could be wrong, and I hope
I'm wrong on that, and that he can change the
front on early downs and then switch it to the
traditional one for the passwhish. I just don't buy it
because they've kept it so in house now for so long.

Speaker 1 (34:55):
Right it is, it's a crazy just changing of the guard.
If the forty nine ers of all teams like not
that they're not mentally and physically tough, but ultimately if
they can't hold up like up front, because to me,
when I think of them at their best, that that
that is what they're so great at. Is this just
like team of absolute beasts that will, you know, just

(35:17):
destroy you upfront. But the league is changing, I won't
throw out the Texans. Then I was thinking about the
Texans because just watching them on a week the week
basis like they are they are the most interesting, but
it's mostly just like their players are awesome.

Speaker 3 (35:33):
All right, let's talk a little Texans. Their players are
just so awesome.

Speaker 1 (35:36):
And then the combination of the like talent and just
the full field aggression that they play with is just
a treat to watch.

Speaker 2 (35:44):
Yeah, I mean only the Eagles like that. It's just
so strange to watch a pro game and see like
a different level of speed of physicality. Like I always
think back to the Eagles versus the pack is in
the playoffs, and it's like they look so much quicker,
more athletic. This is the pros that shouldn't happen, and
you see that way. I think the Texans all time
that secondary is outrageous. I don't know how they've been
able to get away with that. That could be like

(36:04):
the best position group of any in the league that's
not quarterback to Kayleb Bullock is going to become a
super duper star. I think this season Petree is probably
the most impactful nickel corner in the league for a
team who's running that same system as the Niners. He's
the most impactful player. And that's on the defense that
has Derek Stingley, that has Kamari Luster, that now has

(36:25):
Chauncey Gardner Johnson, that's got the two edge rushes who
are probably the two most famous names that they haven't
are both really impactful too. So it's just whya to why.
It's like just talent everyone.

Speaker 1 (36:35):
And they have the thing which this is where I'm basic,
and I don't know if this translates as much on film.
Maybe it doesn't. I do think with defenses, you can
see there is a real quality of which defense is
just playing faster and harder. It was one of the
reasons why I wasn't totally shocked by the run of

(36:57):
the Bengals a few years ago, because even early in
that season they weren't a perfect defense, but they just
played with such an aggression and speed that even though
they were average, like that makes up for like below
average talent, and the Texans are enviable. They have the
best of both worlds where I think they have that
in spades, and they have like the best players too
that if we were ranking the teams, I think ultimately

(37:20):
I would have to go with Texans.

Speaker 3 (37:21):
It's just like my favorite to be number one.

Speaker 2 (37:23):
Yeah, but the two deep is maybe a little rough
and it's a It's another team that kind of rattles
through players outside the secondary. The TD doesn't look quite
as strong as it did do last year, but just
like the front line starts as it would be impossible
to come up with a group that has a better
fall down as they do in a better secondary group.

Speaker 1 (37:42):
Okay, one group I would say is close at least
up front is the Steelers, So I'll throw out them
as my next one. The Texans were We'll throw them
into so because to me, this is a big season
for Tomlin, because it's like, okay, like let's go you.
You you do have everything I think that you really
would want. You have that this older group of great
players like Cam Hayward and Jalen Ramsey, and I'd even

(38:04):
throw TJ.

Speaker 3 (38:05):
Watt at this point.

Speaker 1 (38:06):
He's obviously getting paid a lot of money, but you
know he has less great years ahead of him than
he has behind him. Darius Slay is there, and then
you do have a nice younger group like you you
want Nick Herbrigg and Joey Porter Junior.

Speaker 3 (38:19):
To step up.

Speaker 1 (38:20):
Keanu Benton's a fun player. They're talking up Peyton Wilson,
this second year linebacker a lot, and so you have
like this nice mix. High Smith is right in the
middle of his peak to me, got everything you want.
If Mike Tomlin is, is that dude right now? Like
they kind of they need to be great, I think
because of their offense, and they do have the potential
to be great, like I'm not totally buying that it's

(38:42):
going to happen, but they kind of have to be
great and the and the potential is absolutely there.

Speaker 3 (38:46):
So I am fascinated to watch this defense this year.

Speaker 2 (38:49):
I mean, they should be dominant. You put that front
four on the field, and as you mentioned, you can
roll in Nick Herbig, who may be the most on
the rate to play in all football. It's just like
get off the ball, bounce, dip and rib sub rusher,
probably as good as it gets in the league. You
mentioned high Smith too, Benton. So the front four is unbelievable.

(39:09):
And that's before you get to Harmon who they take
in the first round, and we'll see if he can
give some in out versatility. The thing I've always putted
heads with them about is that it's just not creative
enough with the personnel you have. It really is, we
roll out the same guys doing the same stuff and
will out talent you and they keep getting away with
it because they have an unbelievable amount of talent. It
just feels like they're leaving stuff on the table. They

(39:30):
were just a little bit more chaotic, a little bit
more interesting in stuff like moving TJ. Watter around. We
watch how many of these defenses where Miles Garrett is
lining up doing the basketball crossover over the center, that
these teams go and hunt matchups and the steels like no.
TJ does his thing over and over again, lines up
in the same spot, hits the same move, and if
it hits, it hits. If it doesn't, it doesn't. I
just wish they were more forceful in trying different, more

(39:52):
creative things. And when you get a guy like Jayalen
Ramsey who is like, we can put him anywhere on
the field at any time. He's in LA, he's playing
dime lineback, you can play in and Nicola can play
at safety. They have every opportunity to be as creative
as they want in the front and the secondary, and
I just know in my bones they will roll out
the same system over and over again.

Speaker 1 (40:11):
Jalen Ramsey is one of those guys that I buy
camp Pipe. I do buy that they're gonna get the
last like great year from Jalen Ramsey because he is
just an all time great but also gonna be as
excited and ready to make it count.

Speaker 3 (40:25):
He is just one of those players.

Speaker 1 (40:27):
It is what it is that like we've seen some
players like this in NFL history that are in the
Hall of Fame, that their first year in a new
spot every time is awesome. And I know he's getting older,
but I think they'll know how to use him. When
you say you butted heads with the Steelers, is that
like in your own head or you actually getting grief
from them?

Speaker 2 (40:44):
Like getting grief. I've written about Tera lost in a
couple of times, and one of them was complimentary, and
he was more upset with the complimentary one than he
was the one where I tried to go in at him.
They've done stuff, which is all the stuff I wrote
about in that rexpiece she mentioned of kind of the
trends of defensive football. They've tried to keep up with
some parts of that, which I think is good and admirable,

(41:06):
mostly in like when you call stuff essentially, but the
under the hood things, the changing the design and the
defense is just the exact same as it's been now
for ten to eleven, twelve seasons. And I'm more pleading
with them. And that's where Tara Lustin got upset. It's like,
I think you can be even better. You're excellent, but
there's more hit and they just refuse to do it.

Speaker 3 (41:26):
Now, do they ever get personal with you? Like, who
do you think you are?

Speaker 2 (41:30):
Oh? Yeah, oh yeah, I love that.

Speaker 1 (41:35):
But you know why they're responding because they know you
know ball and it does hit, and they obviously know
an incredible amount about football and have the reasons for
doing what they're doing. But I think it's because you're
hitting a nerve that they have to think about these
things and that's why they're respunny. All Right, we were
getting towards the end, So let's do a team from
you that you just need to have in this show.

Speaker 2 (41:58):
Interesting is the Bengals okay, because their entire approach to
the off season it was lose full. It was Louke
but not gonna do anything. We'll draft Shamas to you it.
Then we'll we'll mess around with bring him into camp.
We're not gonna give Trey Hendrickson an extension. Everything that
went wrong last year was Lunarumo and I'll go them
we'll fix it. And I don't buy that premise in
the slightest.

Speaker 1 (42:19):
I I I guess I'm hoping for like the old
lu an Arumo not fixed, but like I was talking
about that, just not trying harder, but something new, like
they're doing things in a different way. There is some
new blood. They're saying Jamar Stewart's having a great camp.
But is that because the tackles for the Bengals protect

(42:39):
We don't know. We will see they do have. It
is a young defense. But yeah, I'm hoping just for
the sake of like the entertainment of the NFL. I
like the Bengals being good and I want the Wesleyan
brothers to be happy that that is the way it happens.
But maybe that's not convincing enough. It certainly isn't for
you that you don't think the talent's there.

Speaker 2 (42:58):
No, I don't think the talent said. It's just frustrating
when you are so clearly in a championship window and
it's just like, can we get something to support Borrow
in the passing game? Well, it's not going to be
the wrong game. Well it's not gonna be the offensive line.
Can you at least get some kind of complimentary defense.
Either we have a loaded secondary that takes the ball
away so we can go into Arrowhead and beat them
in a postseason game, or our secondary is cut, but
we at least have a front and it's just there's

(43:20):
nothing there, and to not even try and make some
aggressive moves that I just find so frustrating. And I'm
a big al Golden fan. I think he's a fantastic coach.
But even as like Great Defenses has been, I have
so many players I go package by package throughout the game,
and that's kind of my special source. You can't do
that in the Pros. It's stuff to just roll package
by package because you don't take Trey Hendrickson off the

(43:41):
field in the Pros. He's just better than everyone else
on your team. So even the thing that makes him
a really great coach is just difficult to replicate at
this level and even more difficult to replicate with that
roster when it's just pretty clear who should be on
the field and who shouldn't.

Speaker 1 (43:55):
Be, and they're really counting on their rookies, like they
need some mar Stewart to hit, And he was the
guy that you looked at that thought that you thought
immediately like, oh that's gonna work day one. Demetrius Knight
is a second round linebacker that they really need to hit.
I know you have your your doubts on him, all right,
we're gonna We're gonna jam in at least one more team.

Speaker 3 (44:12):
It should it be the Ravens or the Cardinals? Who
do you want to talk about more?

Speaker 2 (44:16):
The Cardinals like my most fun beloved team in the league.
I think why is but the fascinating element of them?
And I wrote a long piece people who read about
Jonathan Gannon is this weird headspace he now exists in
between the Jonathan Gannon I think he is like at
hop and the Jonathan Gannon he had to be last
season to get through a season in which he had

(44:36):
zero talent on his defense outside of Buddha Baca, and
he's rolling out a CFL roster and him and the
staff again together for we've being like, how on earth
do we couple all the way through this? And they
run the wackiest defense, including Brian Flores, in the league
probably that we've seen in like a good six seven,
eight years in terms of just the different stuff that're
throwing at every week, really really creative. And then they
put all the investment in the front of this offseason

(44:59):
and the greatiff stuff was really successful for them. Last year.
It was different. People couldn't keep up with it. They
confused some of the best quarterbacks in the game over
and over again without having talent. And my thought the
season is, well, is it better to persist with that
stuff with more talent. You're confusing people, you're wrecking shop
by design, and you have better players executing. Or does
he revert back to seeing because they ran in Philadelphia

(45:22):
the most passive Monday defense in football and it was
we have eight dominant pass rushes and we'll just roll
for him and no one can keep up, and we'll
break the sack record. Is he just going to having
put all that investment in the roll back to the blandest,
most boring Jonathan Gannon defense ever? Or is he had
this kind of like ayahuasca trip and now he's kind
of into the cool creative events Joseph Brian Flores Bold Well,

(45:44):
it's got.

Speaker 3 (45:45):
To be a mix of both.

Speaker 1 (45:46):
But I think the talent's not good enough to just
rely on it, and you're leaning a little more heavily
on that on the creativity, and I think it's a
great way to think about great coaching and great defenses.
It's is not being able to be creative and just
do the most with least like one time it's all right,

(46:06):
how can you adapt the next season your plan to
your new players? How can you do it season after
season after season. It's a young staff too, so I
think of them in their third season, and I think
what they've done has been impressive overall. Nick Ralis their
defensive coordinator who named his son, you know, after Kaiser White,
and Kaiser White doesn't have a job right now, I mean.

Speaker 3 (46:28):
What's happened? First of all? Can we get Kaiser White
a job? What's happening, Holly?

Speaker 2 (46:32):
We should get can he not be? Like? Can you
not be on the coaching staff?

Speaker 1 (46:36):
Nick Glo's always been one of my sneaky favorite players.
I'm not exactly sure why. I just like the way
he played. I'm confused why he doesn't have a job.
But yeah, it's that, it's that maturation. I think it's
it's such a fascinating team, I think on both sides
of the ball, but especially defense, of like where they
go in the year three. All right, let's wrap with
the Ravens then, because like Zach Orr in his first

(46:57):
year with the Ravens takes over as defensive coordinator and
there was this narrative Dean Pce shows up and you know,
I think the bigger thing was Kyle Hamilton, you know,
kind of changes where he's at it on the defense
and helps to prevent some of the mistakes that were happening.
And it was interesting this offseason I noticed Chuck Smith,

(47:17):
another one of their assistants, almost unprompted, was kind of like,
stop giving Dean Priest so much credit more or less
said it without saying it to be fair, like these
are coaches that are smart about it. He was like,
Zach's the dude, Zach is you know the reason why
it turned around? Like he kind of was saying, everyone's
giving Dean piece of credit. Now you get that, you
gotta be careful Dean. I went and checked. Dean P's

(47:39):
is not employed by the Ravens officially anymore. He is
like a consultant. He might like help a little, but
he's not. He's not part of their coaching staff. But
his son is Matt Peace, which is just very NFL.
But Zach Orr's back there, Chuck Bogano's back there, and
more importantly, I do think it's the best defensive.

Speaker 3 (47:56):
Back room around Kyle Hamilton.

Speaker 1 (47:58):
I kind of think of Hamilton as the f It's
the best room around him since he's been in the NFL,
and we're just waiting, Like what Ravens fans, I know
they're thinking, why is this gonna You're gonna be any
different than any other? To me, the reason would would
maybe be year two of Zach Orr. Tell me if
you think this can happen, and the defensive backs kind

(48:19):
of having that year two lead maybe like Mike McDonald
did as the coordinator for the Ravens too.

Speaker 2 (48:24):
The defensive bag field I'm a little bit more worried
about than you. I think I'm not quite sure all
the pieces fit together cohesively. It's really fun to think
of always we're very versatile. Kyle Hamilton could play anyway
and Malic I star his complaining It's like, well it's
third down, what's gonna line up? Who has stood wet?
It's like really fun to off the flexpiece until you
just gotta play for a game to beat the Bills

(48:45):
in Buffalo, So okay, who stood wet? And they feel
more versatile than they do, like we just have great
plays in each spot. To me, I'm sold on jyr
Alexander getting through the entire season and being anywhere near
the player of old and.

Speaker 1 (48:57):
Now I'm buying the Jalen Ramsey thing for him too.
But that it's a their point. There's a reason why
he only got a four million dollar contract.

Speaker 3 (49:04):
It's a huge, huge risk. That's fair to point out.

Speaker 2 (49:07):
They're big turnaround last season. I don't want to bore
people on this show with the talk of communication systems
on defense. Trust me, I understand how boring that is.
But that is what happened last season is they move
Kyle Hamilton, bag completely remade the communication system. They couldn't
line up last season. That was like the main issue
Zach All was running someone else's defense incorrectly. They move
Kyle Hamilton back, they stripped it to the bare bones.

(49:28):
They switch how they communicate, they put it into three
phases rather than two phases. All of a sudden, they
press of the defense is really good. So that to
me is just done and you can you can roll
forward with the end of the season being a true
representation of what it will be going forward, and they
can I think just out talent people. I think that's
so explosive in the front. What they can do with
moving Hamilton stocks around is exciting. Even if I've got

(49:50):
some some like man coverage reservations on third down, probably
more so than the most other people. So I don't
see any reason why it wouldn't again be one of
the top ten defense in the NFL. I just wonder
quite where the ceiling isn't exactly who is going to
be on the field, where in the key spots.

Speaker 1 (50:05):
Yeah, Madam Weeke, who was was good last year, but
maybe not as good as he was the year before.
Travis Jones, like how they play upfront is obviously massive
for this team. A Dafeoa who's in a free agent year.
Kyle van Noy is still there, one of the most
underpaid players in football. And you know, when you think
about that Bill's game, I'm glad you point out like
they will just have to stop them. They did give

(50:26):
up what was it, I think three touchdowns in their
first four drives. One was a short ish field, but
the defense was the bigger reason they lost that game.
And yeah, I think them improving this year is the
best hope they have. I think they're going to be
my Super Bowl pick. So I was hoping you would
support me in that, and it didn't really feel like it.

Speaker 2 (50:48):
I think they can be very good. The most interesting
part of them to me is Roquon. Roquon was pretty
terrible for almost all of last season, honestly, and you've
got a maiden name on being just like fining it down.
Yet No, he was like fla out for most of
the season. The communication issues were his issues. They had
to take a lot of the calls off him because
they couldn't get lined up properly. So if they fixed
some of that towards the back off season, he can

(51:09):
get back to even eight percent of the play he
was at the true peak of his powers, then that
would be pretty transformational for him.

Speaker 1 (51:16):
And I you know, I'm open about it, and Okay,
that makes me feel good in a way that to me,
I'll view positively that like there is a ceiling for
Rokan Smith to be the best version of himself, which
makes this defense way better. And yeah, I like to root.
I like to pick something that I'm gonna want to
be rooting for too. So last year it was the
Bills to win the Super Bowl, which I felt like
I had a pretty good shot, didn't didn't quite get

(51:38):
there in the end. But this year it's like I
don't need I don't need another Eagles, Chiefs.

Speaker 3 (51:43):
Eagles are fun to watch, but I.

Speaker 2 (51:44):
Don't even I think I've picked the Ravens. Four yers
in a row. I want to get so really.

Speaker 1 (51:51):
I've ever picked the Ravens. So that's why I feel
like this is going to be my year. It's going
to be your year too. I'llie Connolly putting out some
of the best content in the game again. Go ahead
and subscribe to the substack and listen to the podcast
the read optional.

Speaker 3 (52:05):
Thank you Allie, appreciate you.

Speaker 2 (52:07):
Thanks Bob.

Speaker 1 (52:08):
All Right, we will be back. It's a little different
this week. Forties and free agents will be dropping in
your feed. We're gonna be talking some AFC West, me
and Daniel Jeremiah. That's on Friday, and then we got
a little extra episode. We're gonna go talk to some
of the players, talk NFC South and talk with the
Saints and yeah, like when we're working for an entirely
new company, Football's back.