On this episode of NFL Players: Second Acts, hosts Peanut Tillman and Roman Harper sit down with former Seahawks defensive end Michael Bennett for a wide-ranging conversation about going undrafted to becoming one of the most disruptive defensive linemen in the NFL. Bennett built a reputation as one of the most versatile and relentless players of his era but when it was time to step away from the game he took a surprising turn into art, culture, and activism. Now exploring new passions in architecture and design, Bennett explains why he’s always pushed himself to the limit in everything he does, both on and off the field.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Going to coach Richie.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
But she told me, well, Michael, I know you never
played special teams, but the only way to get a
special team is to make.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
A lot of plays.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
And and he was like, hell, every time I see
Richie always like he took my advice, huh, because it
was like I went in there.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
I never I was like, yo, what is going on
on this kickoff team?
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Like it's just a lot of people moving, like because
you know, if you're a defensive end and you a
defensive your pastors, you never really own special team until
you get to the NFL as a rookie and it's
like you like, yo, what is a punt?
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Like you're trying to like you're trying to move your
leg back, like you're talking.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
To the wrong person. You don't know about none of that.
It's cool. Yeah, I was tam I got you. I
feel you were all good.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
I know you don't do special teams.
Speaker 4 (00:39):
Yeah, I was drafted pretty high, so I skipped that
part of my career.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Yeah, congratulations, you kept a lot more brain cells.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
And it takes me long to realize, like, yo, I
don't need to be out here, like anything goes out here, Like.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
What if everybody.
Speaker 5 (00:59):
I'm Peanut Till and this is the NFL Player's Second
Acts Podcast and with me as always as my trustee
co host, Roman Harper, and I'm so excited about this
next guest. He just got here and we're just gonna
get right into it. This guy is a three time
pro bowler. He is one of the top fifty Seattle
Seahawks of all time, and he is an author, an activist,
(01:21):
a designer, Super Bowl champion. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome
Michael Binnett to the past.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Thank you, guys.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
All right, So what is it, Phil?
Speaker 4 (01:30):
You just kind of brought it up, your boy Bobby
Wagner winning the Man of thee the Man of the Year,
Walter Payton Man of the Year.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Well, I feel like, I don't know, I feel like
Bobby deserves it.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
I think, you know, I think everybody on our team
during that time, he got an opportunity to be around
a lot of older guys.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
Who were very committed to the community.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
And I think he's taking that and tripled that and
turned it into something else and continue into like.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Just give where he goes.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Whe every team he's on, he's made an impact, whether
it was through Seattle, whether it was in on what
the DC area or LA where you know where he's
connected to. So I'm really proud of him. You know,
you see a lot of young guys, you never know
what they really going to turn into. I think a
lot of times people are judging the player of just
of how they play. And I think if people allays
remember you for the way you play on the field,
(02:17):
you kind of failed yourself a little bit too. So
to see Bobby get that award, you know, recognize his
mother and then he's done it and what this is
his thirteen year day He's receiving this award, isn't It's
just like the lead up throughout his career of everything.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
That's kind of happening.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
And then finally that last stage is like he beat
the final balls, he got.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
The money, Yeah, he got the girl, and then he
got the.
Speaker 4 (02:38):
Award, he got that second contract Seattle. Then all of
a sudden he goes to l A does great. Yeah,
and all of a sudden you think he may be done. No,
he goes to Washington and then he wins this award.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
He wins this award.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
I mean the team didn't play good, but at least
somebody got somebody got something else, somebody got honest.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Yeah, somebody got selling you.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Yeah, because some of those games, like they were weren't
worth watching.
Speaker 5 (02:58):
And how does it so in twenty seventeen though you
were the Seahawks finalists or nomination for our many or
how did that make you feel?
Speaker 1 (03:07):
I was? I feel good?
Speaker 2 (03:08):
I mean, I feel like I've I feel like I
grew up watching or seeing like my father the way
he was committed to the community, whether it was like
football coaching or bringing people back to the team just
in general, making food or driving people to the games,
just kind of being you know, my mother was a
teacher in the community. So I've seen so much of
(03:28):
how you you know, do and show up for your
community in that way. So I feel like for me
as a player, that was kind of normal. Like if
we talk about like players that I looked up to,
whether it was or athletes you know, talking about like
Muhammad Ali, John Carlos, you, doctor Harry Edward's like, you know,
just continuing like the legacy of people who have made
(03:51):
tremendous impact in their community and also not using their platform,
but not only what they for you know, advertising, but
for humanity.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
I think that's really important. For me.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
It was a big honor because you know, me and
my wife were doing so much in the community, and
you know, whether it was like a juvenile attention centers Africa,
you know, you know, somebody like Cliff and my teammate
was doing the things in Haiti and doing things locally,
you know.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Mentoring boys.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
So it was like, you know, so many great players
and people happened to do it. So I felt like
having that award was a true honor because that was
a competition on our team, like who could be the
best person you know what I'm saying, not just the
best player, but who had the most impact.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
You know.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
We always tell guys now it's like, you know, people
see us not because we won the super Bowl. Obviously
we were the first person winning Super Bowl and our team,
so that's really important. But I think the thing that
people don't really realize. I told the young guys or
guys that's playing now that's older like Leonard Williams and
the rest of these guys, like the community has to
see you outside of your helmet in the atmosphere. That
doesn't really require you getting paid, but just you committed
(04:50):
to the people that are that are involved in that
in that community. So for me to be a person
that represented the Seahawks like that was a real great honor.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
Where does that honor?
Speaker 4 (05:00):
I mean that award being named that for your team,
especially when you just name you know, Cliff and everybody
else doing their things and everybody else competing literally competing
in the community to be who's the best guy? What
is that rank for you as far as like you
winning that award.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Top one of the top three?
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Well, I don't know, maybe top seven okay, yeah, yeah, okay,
on top seven it's right there, but it's.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Like other stuff.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
Yeah, yeah, you did a lot of other stuff.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
I did a lot did so it's like, yo, but
maybe I'm the top five.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
It definitely wasn't really top It was one of one
of the best moments because you get that award and
you have an opportunity to be to be semitted in
Seattle's history is not just as a great player, but
it's a great citizen. I think that's really important.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
Tell me this, where does it the award go?
Speaker 4 (05:46):
Where you know you start wearing the little boy pads,
Like how did you know you were like one of
the first, like you, yeah, it's not you didn't look weird.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
But yeah, I can see I can imagine somebody like
you know, you see me, Like yo, why this guy
show pass so small?
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Right?
Speaker 2 (06:00):
So it's like at the end of the day, I
feel like I just wanted to, you know, be able
to move my hands, be able to like I never
really really cared about getting injured.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
I was like, if I actually tackle somebody.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
Right, properly, I probably won't get injured, right if like
you look talk about technique is like everybody had to
watch Peanut Tielman's technique on fumbling every single week. We
had to watch that tape. And that's how you make
a This is how you make a fumble. This is
how you do it.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
You have to watch you know how many times you
have to watch you.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Every week, every single day, turnover Thursday, I had to
watch it, had to watch it again on Saturday before
the game of how to make the proper technique to
make a fumble? Right? And I think if you talk
about tackling, that's the same thing. Like we watched a
lot of rugby, a lot of this and then for
me as a smaller player in some ways because I
played inside and outside. Technique was really important. So like
if you have the proper technique, you probably won't get injured.
(06:51):
You know, the time you put your body in the
actual odio position and then you actually, you know, make
a bad tackle. You end up breaking your neck or
you end up being in a position out of your
whole body.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
Being able to make a tackle.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
But if you look at Rugby's how they make tackles,
it's like it's like completely on the shoulder and things.
So for me as a defense alignment, I'm usually tackling
a person right when they getting the ball, so I'm
not really you know, taking on like like you guys
when it's like a safety like oh bad for safety,
Like you know, you back there and like you're back.
It's like, oh, here comes ag and Peter said, oh
he just got past alignment. Okay, okay, maybe the linebacker agatting. No, okay,
(07:25):
nobody's got it. Okay in the corner, all right, it's
my turn. It's like, nah, you got this whole field.
You have to make a tackle. So it's like what
defense alignment is, Like I'm usually getting hitting a guy
right when he's getting the ball or right the line
of scream. So it's like I'm really never really running
through like full long contact.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
Well it makes sense. I always wanted to know, so
it makes sense now.
Speaker 5 (07:44):
So a guy that goes undrafted, you make three Pro Bowls,
you won a Super Bowl Championship, You're one of the
top fifty players in the Seattle Seahawks history in their organization.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
How much growth did you have?
Speaker 2 (08:00):
I think I had an opportunity to be around so
many great players. I think my rookie year being around
Ronde Barber, that kind of really changed my trajectory as
a player, Like seeing how Rende would train, seeing how
Rende would, you know, get a massage. I remember just
like asking Ronde, like, man, how you doing this? Like
it was your fifteen when I was there. So watching
Ronde Barber and the way that he approached the game
really helped me transform into a better player earlier in
(08:23):
my career. And then also having an opportunity to be
around Albert Hansworth. I know that he gets a lot
of bad credit for just some of the things he did,
but he was a good player. And I think one
thing that I learned from the opera was like it
was like one of the people that told me like
to believe in myself.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
Early on, It's like, man, you got.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Talent, Mike, you should be starting no matter what. Like
he was one of the guys that was like, you
needed this, how you rush the passer? So I think
early on having guys like that and the coaches like
Keith Millard like pushing me towards great greatness. And I think,
you know, I had an opportunity to play with Jerald
McCoy early on, and we was just getting started. I
kind of sometimes like like I feel like like if
we stayed together for like seven years, we probably would
(08:59):
have had like crazy stats because we were just kind
of getting going in that in that defense and just
learning how to play with each other. So I think
that that helped me, like early on, and then coming
to Seattle and have an opportunity to be around Dan
Quinn again. I think when I first came into the league,
coming to Seattle, I had an opportunity to play with
Dan and I remember the first time he was like, oh,
you gotta play inside. We got guys on the outside.
(09:21):
You need to get better, you.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
It was just like, you know, Dan was always on
me and we built a close relationship. So when he
came back from Florida and he was going to Seattle,
he called me, you know, like, oh yeah, you know,
need you come play up here.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
I'm like, nah, no, I'm good.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
I was down in Miami on my on my trip
and I remember I was like, uh. It was like
it was like, can't wait in there, And it was like, oh, well,
Cam's here, and so you gotta play on the right side.
I was like, I don't know, man. I was like,
I don't know. I don't know if I could play
on the right side. I feel like on the left side,
I'm like ninety eight on Madden, but on the right side,
I'm like barely touching.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
Eighty, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
So I was like that matters, Like I was like
Madden ninety left in ninety six to ninety eight, you
know what I'm saying. But the other side I'm just okay.
So I was like, I don't know if I want
to do that. So when they called me, I went
up there, and that's the first time I had an
opportunity to be around so many great players. I feel
like guys kept pushing me, like opportunity to play with Cliff.
I think that helped me with learning the things that
(10:18):
I wasn't good at as a defensivelignment, seeing how he practiced,
seeing how me bank practice. I think me brain was
one of the most intellectual players I ever played with,
so seeing how he saw the game, how.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
He moved through through the field.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
And I played with Big Rid since I was in college,
so that was super simple to come back. We were
super close together already, and so that was the time
that the game had to really like, My game jumped
another level. Is because it's like you don't have to
do everything. You just do your job.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
You know.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
Sometimes you get on the team and you try to
like do more, you know, and then you end up
doing less. And I think that's the thing you have
to really, you know, watch yourself as a player. You know,
you don't want to be like Anthony Davis.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
Who's just hurt. No, you can't hurt your finger a
good time, non shooting finger. You talk, what does he
need his finger for?
Speaker 4 (11:04):
Tell you it's some Laker fans in here, So like, bro,
that's a bad like it's a bad place for us
to start just.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
Telling you like no, Luca was a better trade though.
For sure, for sure Dallas got the short end of
that stick. Let's all right, let's lock back in.
Speaker 4 (11:16):
You mentioned Cliff April and how he was opposite defensive
Indue you, but like, what is it like when you
go with somebody that's opposite to you? But man, he
has different, different skill sets, And how great is it
to see somebody else with different, completely different skill sets
perform at such a high level, because then you kind
of still a little bit of out of his bag
(11:37):
and he's learned one percent.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
I think you learned a lot of different things from
people when they are doing It's like you watch Cliff game,
It's like his speed, the power and getting around the edge.
It's like things in the past rush game that he
taught me. Right, It's like, okay, well, Michael, you need
to give them the edge a little bit more in
a three technique loosening up a little bit. We did
this in Detroit. Sue was doing this. So if you
move over a little bit to the left, you know,
now we both ends again, and I'm like, oh, you
(12:00):
know what I'm saying. So it's like it's like, now
you just do what you need to do and like
you know, when I'm up and up, and then you
start to really learn how to play, like right, it's
cause it's like you got to have that symbiotic relationship,
you know, in the game, because it's like if you
don't have that, you're going to be in each other's way.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
You know.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Then the first time you get out there, you start
getting each other's way and you realize there's no success
happening for anybody. Right, It's like then it's like sometimes
I get out the ball first and he comes around,
and sometimes you get out the ball first, I gotta
go inside. I think that's kind of where I kind
of improve my game, is like learning more about how
to line up and using your alignment as a as
a weapon for the people that you're going against.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Right, because the.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
Guard once they sit, they just they can't move like
they move its offside.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
I can literally start at.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
A two technique and move to a three technique before
the ball snaps, and there's nothing wrong with that. And
I think using that as a part of my game
is allowed me to improve and become a better player.
I think that was really important learning that type of skill,
especially like long arm and getting off and then It's like,
you know, I was. I was always really good in
the run game. Like that was just something that was
like normal to me. It's like, you know, just to
(12:59):
tell people like it's just like.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
I don't know what you do. I just do that.
I just that was just it right.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
It's like since I was a kid, I like I
refuse to let somebody get a yard, you know what
I'm saying, Like I just wouldn't because I was a
running back before I was a defensive end.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
Of course, everybody tell about that that running back that
everybody got that.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
No, I wasn't running back. It's okay. I was a
really good running back in to ten grade.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
And then you know, you go to practice and big kids,
didn you see like another human.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
You're like, yo, he's a really good running back.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
I don't think I could do what he can do.
And I was like, yeah, I guess I go play
defensive end.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Like you know.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
The coach was like yeah, you know, like it was
a kid named Courty Mass, like he was a good player.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
He just he just was like it's okay. It couldn't
get the grades.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
If he would have got the grades we were, he
would have been the NFL but he was so good
at running back that when I saw him start playing
running back, I was like, it was the first time.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
I was like, y'all, don't know, man, maybe maybe I should.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Do something else UK receiver look, you know, like, but
Courdy was so good that the coach was like, yo,
you should play defense, and I was just like, okay,
I'll go play defense.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
So I didn't really play defense until I was like
in ten grade. Nice.
Speaker 5 (14:01):
It was the same thing we were talking about earlier
about the everybody wants to be a receiver that she's got.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
It's like fifty kids.
Speaker 5 (14:07):
In the receiver line, but nobody wants to play d
NS and it's like ten kids.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
So no, DVB's the hardest position on the field, though
it is it is, it is tell me this then, nobody.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
What was your Welcome.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
To the NFL. Welcome to the NFL. I have two
give them to him. The first one was against Walter Jones. Man,
oh my god, I don't know why. Every time I
see walking too that, I'm like, you know, my hip
still hurts, right, because it's one of those things.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
Like you know what was one of them people that was.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
Like like, it's like somebody made him here, like, you know,
God was like this guy like, this is why I
want to be an office alargnment. Here's my here's my
commitment to the world. And he made Walter Jones right,
and it's like there's very few people like that, right.
Julie Peppers is like, here's here's the guy.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
Charles Wilson like, yeah, here's what he's supposed to look like. Right,
HP is running back.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
And I feel like with Walter Jones, man, I was
out there, I was like beating everybody practice. I was
on drafted, so I was like, man, I don't care,
you know, guard everybody, Chris Spencer, whoever was out there.
They was like, yo, you gotta slow down, got slow down,
rook And Walter Jones told me one time, you need
to slow down. Nobody could beat me. And I messed
around and went around him one time, and you know,
(15:14):
like he had his chin strap undone. I saw that,
you know, he clicked that. Hey, I still knew that
was a sign right there. I would say, like, you're
not having your think yeah, like you know, like he
put that on.
Speaker 6 (15:24):
Man.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Boy, he pushed me so hard. Boy.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
I still I still have dreams about that like it
was terrible, Like, but Walter Jones is my first one
because he like just really just.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
Did he finish you? I mean, he just threw me
with He was the strongest human I ever met.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
Get thrown out the club white.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
Actually, Hilardi Naughty was the strongest suit human I ever met.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
Oh yeah, Hellodi's huge.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
Holodi was the strongest person I've ever seen in my life.
So tell me the second one. The second one, Carl Nicks.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
Oh big Carl.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Yeah, because when he came to Tempa Bay and he
kept telling me that, hey, I'm gonna tell you again,
and he hit me in my chest.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
Boy, you know, I feel like, you know that that.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
Little prayer thing they had, like did Jesus walking behind
me with the sand?
Speaker 1 (16:08):
I see the footsteps of the sand. That was like
the opposite hit.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
I could see his foot person his hand printed my
chest like he hit me so hard. I feel like
my chest just started to stop for a second breathing.
Just because car was a huge human, you know what
I'm saying. And every day he had to go get
his practice with him and that was one of the
people that like, I feel like if I could be
called you know, four times then like I could be
everybody else nine times, you know, So it was like
(16:32):
a car. Knicks was definitely the second person that I
was like, Yo, this is another human that didn't make
any sense.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
Yeah, he is a massive person.
Speaker 5 (16:39):
And what point did you know it was time to
retire playing this game.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
I feel like I had to make myself retired though,
because I felt like like I was like sitting there.
I was in Dallas, and I was like, it's like, man,
I grew up. None of the guys wanted to be models,
and I feel like now everybody wanted to be a model,
you know what I'm saying, Like every guy wanted to
walk down the catwalk, right.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
And I was like, yo, this is just different, you
know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
I'm so used to like people having screwdrivers in their
hands and like changing the tires and like, you know,
like it was just like a different It was different,
like people like a different vibe, Like they checking the Twitter, like, yo,
we lose it.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
You try to see what they're talking about. You know,
we lose it. Why are you checking Twitter? I feel
like it was just like I just came.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
I was like the last of like the two days
and all old school, the old school.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
So I was like a part of the old school
of football.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
So I came in like it was two days and
we had all the old vets and like, so I
came in like at that time where it was like,
you know, people, you're going to practice, you get knocked out,
you know what I mean. And and so it's like
I feel like I transitioned all the way to the end,
and I just like felt like I'm too old for
this game.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
I'm too old for it, right.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
It was like and then I was in there and
I was just like I was at the Cowboys, and
I was just like, I don't know, I feel like
it's just a different game. And I felt like I
came from the generation of where it was like really
important to have like.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
Honor and and.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Colde and like brotherhood, and it was less about throwing
your you know, your guy under the bus and more
about like standing standing together and believing in something that
was really more important, like winning really meant something like
going out there and being dominant actually meant something like
loving the game, Like you know, you see your teammate
get hurt and you actually shed a tear because you
(18:21):
actually loved that person, Like Yo, some teams that's not
like that. It's like, yo, it's my turn to get
in the game, Like you know, I was waiting. I
would have did it myself. Thank you, Charles, you know,
like because it's like you took him out like I
did want to take him out. I was like every
day I was, I was hoping, like it's like but
like being on a team where it's actually love. I
felt like that's what I had a chance to experience
(18:42):
in Seattle, and.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
That kind of like was what my experience was.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
That was what I felt like football should be, the brotherhood,
the love for the game. Watching film like Gods Back,
I ain't watch no Felm. I'm like, okay, like why's
that good? Like it's not at all. It's not like
being on a game and being able to talk on
the intellectual level about what's happening to the point where
coaches are respecting what you're saying.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
There's your preparation, Like that was what I came from.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
So then I didn't have that no more, and I
just felt like it was kind of like it was
kind of missed ip member. I stood up in front
of the D line, I mean the whole defense, and
I was like, you know, I feel like I had
to tell the team because I feel like if I
didn't tell them, like I would have not retired, right,
I had did like stand up and like say it vocally,
And I said it vocally before one of the last games.
I was like, yo, this'd be my last time playing.
(19:32):
I enjoyed the NFL, like you guys should do your thing,
and like even when I retired, people, I was like
in New Zealand, I was still getting calls to like,
you know, come play or whatever, and I was like,
I don't know, man, I just felt like I just
kind of And I was also like in between that
lane of like you know, like at one point, are
you are you you know, doing your family and justice?
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Are you doing yourself injustice?
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Right? It's like I see guys out there, like I
can still be playing too, Like today if I really
just went through the process of playing, like like it
was like, you know, older you get, the less practice.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
You got to do. At some point, you just know
the game more than other people, do you know.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
I see Claus out there, cam, everybody's out there, and
like I just felt like I just want to keep
my brain too, you know what I'm saying, And I
want to be there for my family.
Speaker 3 (20:13):
We'll be back in a minute.
Speaker 4 (20:17):
You had this quote about retirement, and you tell me
what you meant by this. It said, retiring feels a
little like death of self, but I'm looking forward to
the rebirth, the opportunity to reimagine my purpose.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
I think there was like Delta, a person that I
once was. Right, It's like every person that plays in
the NFL, we get so attached to what comes with
playing with the NFL. You know, the people knowing you,
people loving you, and you loving loving be in love
that way, and like, you know, you come to this
place of trying to understand what's your true purpose in life?
(20:54):
Who are you supposed to be? Am I only supposed
to be you know, a football player? Or is it
more to me? I think that that's really important. It's
like that's really a delt depth to your ego, like
to be reborn as a new spiritual being and like
allowing yourself to fly in different ways. I think that's
really a challenge, right, It's like the challenge is trying that.
You know, it's just easy to stay committed to something
(21:16):
that you know everything about, there's nothing to imagine. Like
right now, we all can know exactly what's happening in
the super Bowl. We know we all played in Super Bowl.
We know how the practice is going, we know what
the coach is saying. We can predict everything that's about
to happen because we went through every single schedule. We
know how bus rides happen, massages, what type of the
family pressure that people are feeling. But then like you
(21:36):
try something else, like you try doing the FBI, Like
that's a whole other world to try to experience and
the right the process and the determination and discover and
cannot really push my brain the way that I push
my body. And I think that's really kind of a
real challenge as ourselves to do right.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
And I think that's really where I was.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
Trying to do, is trying to really reimagine what the
possibilities of what Michael Bennett could be follow up.
Speaker 3 (22:01):
Has Michael Bennett succeeded in that? I think I have.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
I think I've always been able to, you know, being
undrafted has always taught me that discipline was super important,
and like I've always carried a chip on my shoulders,
so anything that I try to do, I try to
push myself to the max. Like I'm a maximalist in
a bad way, you know what I'm saying, Like like.
Speaker 4 (22:20):
I scared my wife is a maximalist. Always throwing that
around too, Like I don't know if I like that.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
No, but I'm saying, like, for example, like a maximumist
in a good way, not like a bunch of things.
But like I started playing tennis, right, it's like love
that I started playing tennis to the fact that I
think I'm going to the US Opening. So it's like
that's that's a problem. That's just a problem.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
A week single eggs, this is what this is what
Federer does? You know, I need to get these jok
of issues.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
To a point where it's like it's I'm only watching tennis,
like you know, I love that. So I'm like, so
anything that I get into, I just start to go
down a deep path on it. So like architecture, I
just went the first you can go like you know,
I'm gonna go to architecture school hardship, but still did it,
you know what I'm saying, And like still doing architecture
is my own work practice, and furniture and design and
stuff like that. So anything that I get into is
(23:11):
like it's a I'm gonna like watch it and try
to understand it, read about it, absorb it in a
way that.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
It becomes something that's second nature to me.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
That's just how I always been like, And you know,
I don't know if that's good or bad.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
Like so no, I think it's good.
Speaker 5 (23:24):
It's it's I think it's worked out for it. But
let's let's let's stay on that topic. So architecture, uh, writing, writing, poetry,
A designer football player, Why did you choose football over
the other ones.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
When I was young?
Speaker 2 (23:41):
Yeah, I feel like it was a path that I
understood it was like, and I feel like it was
kind of chosen too for me too. Right, It's like
growing up in Texas is so different than any other place.
Playing football, It's like you get identified, you get identified
super early. It's like yo, like, yeah, we was gonna
we thought you should have two englishes, but we replaced
it with extra football were we was thinking that, you know,
(24:07):
you actually need three p's, but we made it six.
So now you had four hours to do football during
school time, you got an.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
Hour to work out watch over trade.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
So it was like so it was like okay, like
you know, it's like, well you can get a scholarship.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
And like, well you can get a scholarship, and it's
like when.
Speaker 4 (24:24):
Your GPA is going to be higher, yes, because you
know you got more physics, were planning your straight sho.
Speaker 3 (24:33):
GP is going.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
Yeah. It's like and it's like you get there and
it's like yo.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
And then I remember like even being in college, like
at Texas and everybody was in agriculture of science and
it was so funny. I remember one of the deans
was like, you guys, yeah, we had like one of
those dean meetings with all the students in there. He's like, uh,
do you guys know which degree makes the most money
in here at the school? And I was like yeah, doctor, lawyer, engineer.
(24:59):
He's like no, oh, this one. They said wow.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
So sir, we got every single athlete in this program
that's a good basketball, football, and baseball. Everybody was an
agricultural science.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
So it was like it was like we're learning about turf,
but you know, it was actually a good degree because
it's like, you know, you can learn about the land,
learn about everything. So it was like we always had
to do study it. So it was like an interesting
kind of degree path. But going back, I was like, oh,
maybe I should pay attention a little bit more. But
it was like, you know, but I feel like choosing
that was like, you know, football was such an important thing,
Like I actually loved football. Like I'm not onet of
(25:33):
people that'd be like, yo, I hate football, Like I
actually loved football. I actually loved everything about the history
of football, like the people that came before me. Like
I see veterans and people that I like, you know
that I walk up to and I'm just like, yo,
Like I started playing a game because of you, you know,
like they're like remember that game nineteen seventy eight, or
like this game happened in two thousand and two. You
did this move, And I was like, because I actually
(25:54):
loved football, Like I love the history of it. What
player went to West School?
Speaker 1 (25:57):
What did they do? Who was a guy?
Speaker 2 (25:59):
Like I watched guys, I watched film. I love watching film.
Grow up playing in the NFL, like I watched so
much film. I'll just be in there watching. I'll just
be like just watching.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
I'm like, yo, you.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
Said what Justin Smith did on play forty eight against
the Saints. You know what I'm saying, Like, just because
I love football, I love though the guys that came
before me. I love the process of the people that
what they did to get to the guys who took
the NFL to make it to where it is now,
Like they don't get a lot of love. But I
think a lot of the young guys don't even recognize
old players. So I remember like watching some of the guys,
you know, like who is in that camp Scattabu, Like, yeah,
(26:30):
they showed him Calvin Johnson. He was like, I don't
know who this is, and they was like, oh, this
Calvin Johnson. But he knew the stats.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
But if Calvin Johnson walked in front of his face,
he was no Calvin Johnson.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Like that wouldn't happen to me. You know, I would
know who if really Rof walked by or whoever walked by.
You know, if Reggie White was still alive and he
walked by, I'd be like, Yo, that's Reggie White. You
know what I mean, Like, you know, I see Warren
Sapp or I see any great players like I saw
Michael shra Haan and yesterday or you know, I was
just telling him like, man, remember that game and this way,
and it's just like they respect it because a lot
(26:59):
of times they get that they get left behind. Like,
you know, I love watching y'all when y'all play, especially
when you're watching the Saints. You guys dominated watching Chicago
Bears play defense, everybody on that defense, and the kind
of watching the midway just just out there right. It's
like when I played for the Tampa Bay I got
to watch it. I mean, we played against y'all so
much that we wasn't good. We never beat y'all, but
damn it was not. It was just watching y'all play defense,
(27:21):
you know, like Junior Goallett and everybody else's defense, and
like just the will Smith everybody just like it was
just a great team to watch. Johnathan Wilma and watching
you guys play and everybody Lance and ear Lacker and
just the whole defensive line, Israel, Tommy Harris, like those
were like those were like those like the stacked Stack team. So,
like I said, I think I also loved football, Like
(27:43):
I grew up wanting to be like a Tampa Bay
buccaneer growing up.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
That was my favorite team growing up.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
Random coming from Texas.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
But I love Derek Brooks too, like you know, Simme
and Rice, who should be in the Hall of Fame.
He's great expires Like I was like Booker mc farland,
Warren sapp everybody on that team that was just Shelton Corals,
people that didn't get get named, like Rende Barber, everybody
else on that defense. Like I love watching them play
(28:09):
defense and watching Tampa two play. So I just when
I grew up, I just I just tell Warrant step
all the time. Every time I talk to Derek Brooks.
He was like, why are you approaching me like that?
I was like, man, I respect you. You don't understand
I actually watched you playing the growing up.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
Tell me this.
Speaker 4 (28:23):
So first of all, you're a highly intelligent guy, and
shout out to you for being that person and really
showing that and really showing that personality of who you are.
I want to know how you kind of found your
current passion, which is designing, and you have what studiocur
the different furniture pieces comes from different historical backgrounds, different things,
(28:46):
Like everything seems to have a purpose in this designing
world that you're in right now.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
Yeah, I think design is super important. I think everything
that we enter or we feel is designed. Don't know
how we walk into a door, the size of a door.
Everything is calculated in the way the speculations of a building,
looking at how the walls are across from each other,
or even looking at freeways or looking at how people.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
Have access to stores. That's design.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Either design could be designed for good or it could
be designed for bad. Hostile architecture the way that people design.
So for me historically look at hostile architecture, that's a thing.
That's the thing that's like when you see like a
bench and they start putting like bars on it or
so they don't homeless people sleeping on it, or they're
designed something in a way that's like you look at
it and you're like, yo, this feels hostile in a way,
(29:31):
Like it feels like it's going against the natural current
of way humans should be. Like the way that a
water would kind of be in a river and it
will flow naturally, but if a brick is in there,
it starts to it flows differently. So you look at
like a street or anything like that, somebody's designing it
to be that way. So the ghetto is not natural,
it's designed that way. It's not natural to be people
to be stacked up on each other, not to have
(29:52):
access to natural light, not to have access to food.
That's a real People really sit down and design that
they don't design with empathy. So I think, for me,
when I think about architecture, I've always started as being
aware of empathy. And so for me when I think
about you know, my furniture and my design practice is
rooted in the black history, but in a way about
discovering new forms, right, how do I take like, you know,
(30:14):
it's just being a black man, Like a lot of
me is African like, but it's distorted in a way.
It's like it's fragmented. I can't remember it, but I
know that it's there. Right, It's like you think about gumball,
you think about the dishes that we are, things that
we do, like, that's our heritage. We reformed it and
thought about it in a new context, but it's still there.
So a lot of what a designer is like looking
(30:35):
at African culture but realizing that I'm also an American
in a way, and how do I bridge those to
think about it? Right? Remix those things created new forms
to think about the spatial logic of something is really important.
I spent a lot of time in my day working
on projects like that, whether it's a building, whether it's
a furniture, or thinking about memorials or designing memorials for people.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
And I think.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
That type of commitment to research, that type of commitment
to thinking about people in a more communal way, is
really important to my practice.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
I think that's really the thing that I do every day.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
I mean, it's tiring mentally because it's like sometime I'm like,
you know, I just want to watch YouTube, you know,
because sometimes it's like I'm constantly like thinking and like
having to think at large scales and then thinking at
small scales, right Like designing the museum, It's like that's
a big project to think about, how can something change
the way that people, you know, go into a community.
It's like I have to think about, you know, the windows,
(31:29):
how much life got to be in here, how much
is the access to the people, what points where people
come into How can I make something feel so different
think about it in a different context.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
So I think a lot of that is.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
Where kind of like when my design practice is rooted
in research, and I think a lot I think about
this African dispect forms and languages, and I just think
about it through different scales, so whether that's running your pieces,
and I think there's last collection that I did, working
on a new one, but the last one was around
this idea of.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
Getting back to the crib.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
Was really about getting rooted to like the things that
are rooted in the love and kind of like remembrance
of that, because I think so much of being black
is about traumatic experiences, but I don't want that to
be the only experience that we feel.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
Right, some of the experiences we actually feel our love.
We know what it feels like for your mother.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
To sacrifice something and out of love, working over time
to get you that present for Christmas, or being there
for Sunday dinner your grandma made the most the best biscuits,
or the fried chicken nobody want to eat Anti Janis
spaghetti or yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
Because you don't put enough sugar in it. You know
what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
Like those feelings of what family feel like, and I
think that's really important to remember that we also are
human in that way. I think that's really important to
dignify who we are and to make sure that people
realize that we just are a vulnerable experience, or we
just not also not just a traumatic experience. We are
a full spectrum of humanity, love, pain and joy.
Speaker 5 (32:47):
So, as a football player, where's that fall on your list?
And how would you describe yourself as a player?
Speaker 2 (32:54):
Man, I think, Man, where's football? I think Football's number
one thing I did. I think, and I'm actually proud
of that. I know a lot of people want to
shy away from this idea about football, but I had
to work really hard to get to the position that
I was in a lot of sacrifices, a lot of
late nights, a lot of studying, and actually loving the game.
So I think football was something I really appreciated. I
don't mind when people come up to me and say, like, yo,
(33:16):
you Mchael benefrom Seahawks.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
I'm like, yeah, that's cool. Like some people really like
don't you hate it?
Speaker 4 (33:20):
Though?
Speaker 2 (33:20):
Like when you in New Orleans, Joia, Chicago and people
are talking to you like like I was a kid.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
Remember when I was a kid, and you didn't that
shit make you feel older?
Speaker 2 (33:28):
Right?
Speaker 5 (33:28):
It does make you feel that does make you And
the person saying he was an adult now pies beer yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
Like, so, I like, I love the experience of football.
But what I would say that my thing was.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
I feel like I was like people always called me
a renaissance man, and I feel like that was my
thing in football, Right, I did a lot of different things.
I did good just at one thing. I was like
a great run stopper, a great pass rusher. I played
multiple positions. I would say that like I just was
kind of like a Swiss harmony knife. I did a
lot of different things, like whether whatever the team required
me to do, I try to do. Like if there's like, oh,
(34:02):
you got to play nose this week, I play nose.
You know what I'm saying, Because at the end of
the day, I always felt like no matter what the
position was, it still was a defensive line position regardless.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
So I think that's one of the things I feel like.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
I feel like, yeah, I feel like I was a
renaissance man when I play, Like I still read books,
I still did everything I wanted to do, still went
home and was with the family, Like I just kind
of just did what I needed to do. Use it
as as as a wave of you know, do I
stole football was an art too? Right, It's the art
of the body, like it takes a lot of take
a lot to be out there, like, you know, having
to watch the video over and over. I never got
(34:34):
one right, you know what I mean. I think I
might've heard my wrists like more times than I actually
got it right. But those guys, it's a real technique.
It's a real technique, and it's like, it's like when
you do get it, it's an art to it to
watch somebody and be in the movement and see when okay,
on the third hand, that's when I punched, you know,
like a great boxer.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
It's the art of it right. And then being a
great pastor is the same way.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
It's like on the third step when he crosses over
his went out strike, you know what I mean, Any
strike before be be failure, but if I struck at
the right moment, it's art.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
And I think that's kind of what I've always thought
about football.
Speaker 4 (35:06):
One thing that my research definitely didn't tell me, and
that is, I gotta know, because you were such a
great player, how the hell did you go undrafted out
of text saying them, oh man.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
Like, what did you do? I just I feel like
some I think they think I didn't like white people.
That's what it was.
Speaker 3 (35:23):
That's what it was.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
That's what That's what the word on the street was.
That's what they said. They said that, that's what that's
what they said.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
They said. I was, I was defiant and that white
authority pushed me the wrong way. Really, I love that.
Speaker 6 (35:35):
That's I don't think that's true. I don't think it either,
but I think it's hilarious. I wonder, what's you know
what I mean, like, doesn't that like white authority. I mean,
I have done some things that people might thought that.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
I was like thinking that, but it's like I was,
I just said, like you know, I just I got
a daddy coach, Like I just can't play football like
you know, I do, got a dad I gotta need.
I don't need a white dad too, you know what
I'm saying. I got a black horn like one is
good enough, like you know, So I think, I mean,
I think that was the thing that people thought.
Speaker 4 (36:03):
Decent player out of Texa, A and M. I would think,
like it's normal. I've been in Texan, yeah, so like
I've been there. I just I literally had watched your
whole and I did not know that you were undrafted.
I think like we just kind of skipped over that.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
Yeah. I think a lot of people don't know that.
They kind of when I said that, and I stand
in there lne like wait what, yeah that was me.
Speaker 5 (36:20):
We didn't were doing this. I didn't know that ahead
you know what I'm saying. We didn't know that and
I didn't know you went back to Seattle.
Speaker 1 (36:27):
Yeah yeah that shot.
Speaker 3 (36:29):
I was like wait what yeah?
Speaker 1 (36:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
So when I was a rookie, I made the team
as an undrafted player. I actually beat a third round pick,
Baraka Atkins, he's played for the Miami with Miami and
actually the fourth front pick.
Speaker 1 (36:42):
But then and it was like this other guy named
Nick Reed. Nick Ree was actually a great pastor of
Russia to Oregon.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
I think he had like the record for like it
was like like one of those guys that if you
saw him on the street you would be like, I
don't know how this guy does it. But nick Ree
was like this guy that just looks like a substitute teacher,
not even like the teacher, like the substitute like you
can't pass the test, but you do know what he's doing.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
But that was like Nick Ree. And then we was
like dominating in preseason, Like we were literally killing in preseason.
So basically they.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
Told me that, like, oh, we need to move you
down for one game so we can bring up an
office lineman because we don't have enough office line because
they told me before the season, was like, you're not
gonna play in any games. You're just gonna practice, and
you're just gonna be a team and we're gonna develop
you because we got Patrick Curry and we got Corey Ready,
and we got everybody like you. Maybe towards the end
of the season you might get some playing time, but
(37:31):
your job every day is to come here and make
the officer line better. That's pretty much what they kind
of told me, right And I was just like, Okay,
that sounds good to me.
Speaker 1 (37:37):
I'm on the team, like you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (37:40):
And then like they put me down, and like I
was confused because I didn't actually know what what I
just agreed to, you know what I'm saying, Like, and
then the next day it's like, you know, all these
teams put in this offer for me, and I'm like, yo,
it's like I was supposed to go to. Like at first,
it's so funny. I was telling Cliff, I was supposed
to go to Detroit Lions, but then they actually won
a game, and Tempa Bay had a worse record than them,
So it was like Green Bay, Tampa Bay, like all
(38:01):
these teams in there like it. It was like the Raiders,
and it was like, oh, you have to go to
Tampa Bay because it's the lowest team. So I didn't
know you go to the lowest team if then you
go to multiple ways. Yeah, so multiple teams could put
it in the thing, but they're not gonna get the
best team of best player, right because it doesn't make
sense if a good player comes off and then like
you know, the Chiefs are already winning, they're like, yeah,
let's get this player number one. But if if the
lower team puts in the offer first, then they claim you,
(38:23):
then they get to get to take you.
Speaker 1 (38:24):
Dang. I didn't know that.
Speaker 3 (38:25):
We're gonna take a short break and we'll be right back.
I learned something new, all right.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
This is the other thing that I did not know.
Speaker 3 (38:35):
Mount Rushmore.
Speaker 4 (38:36):
All right, you get four, and so we want to
talk about we want to know your Mount Rushmore of influence,
the people that have come into your life, to whether
it's football after ball, just throughout life that has made
you the man that you are right here in front
of us today.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
That ain't that's crazy.
Speaker 2 (38:54):
I'm gonna take family out of it because I feel
like that's like the easy one. Like obviously, my wife
has had a huge influence on everything I've ever done
in my life since we've been in high school sweethearts.
Even though I always say, take out my dad and
then my brother, like obviously those are people that like,
if I'm just talking about people that are not family members,
(39:14):
I probably say Cliff Averel, Wow, why Cliff, because Cliff
is one of the people that's like it was like
a person that's a brother that kind of like that
you could trust, that can you can reflect on. But
the reflection is you always say he playing the devil's advocate.
I'm like, why are you playing for the devil anyway?
Speaker 1 (39:30):
And play for God?
Speaker 2 (39:32):
But like a friend that that does that doesn't judge,
but that's also pushing you every day to make sure
that you kind of are standing. So you need people
around you that have an impact on you because of
their positivity and they're also who they are as humans
and how they are going through the world. So I
would say he's had a big influence on me. Okay,
if I can say somebody that don't I don't know
(39:53):
has had like an influence on me that works too,
that never met it because.
Speaker 1 (39:57):
Before my time, I'll say Booker T. Washington. Okay, I
like Booker T.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
Washington has had like a lot of influencers just reading
his books and understanding like the history of what he
was experiencing at the time, and like the story of
why you know, imagine walking from Philadelphia to a whole
nother place like that's a crazy shit, right, Like you know,
like or going to a place and starting to school
because you don't the world doesn't have one, and you
(40:21):
decide that I'm going to make a place that every
black intellectual can come to and have a place to
discover and imagine being around George Washington, Carver, every single
body that existed that we know today has some type
of running and being able to have a conversation with
the president in any moment that you wanted to.
Speaker 1 (40:36):
That's kind of crazy, and build a whole world around that.
So I think Booker T. Washington somebody I think about that.
He's a good one.
Speaker 2 (40:43):
I like two more football wise, I'd say somebody that's
had like a big influence on me from a football
perspective is I would say, would be me Bay And
I feel like if I say one person that really
changed the way I looked at the game and made
me just a completely better place football wise, I play
with a lot of great players, like I think, you know,
(41:04):
Cam Chancel, everybody was like great players. But somebody that,
like I think that was like intellectually so far ahead
that I'm like, Yo, why does he know everything that's
happening before it's happening. I would say, Brandon me bang
with somebody I would say football wise, that is kind
of like so I'm just trying to go around like
in a way of putting it in that way. Somebody
that's influencing me is socially as a person to improve
(41:26):
as a human, somebody just thinking about how to think
about the world and designing and thinking about community. Football wise,
I'll say me bang just the career wise, and then
the last one I'll say, I'll say my kids, how
many three? Okay, I'll say they had the big influence
on me because they kind of changed me to think
(41:47):
about life differently. In the whole totality of all three
of them, right, because three of them are three different experiences,
and each one of them had a different impact on
me to change me in a positive way. You know,
whether it's my first daughter, my second daughter, or third daughter,
each one had improved me as a human in every way,
like it could have been like learning how to love better,
(42:08):
learning how to be more you know, a tendive, learning
how to be more nurturing, Like those are things that
I feel like having three daughters have challenged me to
do and also change me as a person, right because
I'm like, if I imagine not having no kids or
something like, yo, probably wouldn't be a.
Speaker 1 (42:23):
Good person, like selfish and be selfish.
Speaker 2 (42:26):
So I feel like that, So I would say that
three and outside of like you know, I'll say, like
obviously my brother, I feel like it's had a bigger
influence on me just in general, because it's like you
gotta to be able to go into life with somebody
who has experienced everything you experienced and like you know
them from the beginning, like like you know, it's like
and so it's like you can you can help each other,
(42:47):
like you know, manage emotions, manage life, kind of talk
about things and just have conversations and be honest.
Speaker 1 (42:53):
I think that's kind of a good thing too.
Speaker 2 (42:55):
So yeah, I feel like I've had a lot of
good influences, but coaches wise, I would say the biggest
influence that I've ever had on it, it was two
coaches really.
Speaker 3 (43:03):
Hold on, hold on, you keep adding to the hold on.
Speaker 1 (43:06):
No, because I feel like you can't know.
Speaker 5 (43:09):
I say, because Martella's made he the fifth on the mountains,
and you just add two more coaches.
Speaker 1 (43:16):
Yeah, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
I say, you gotta you gotta works one.
Speaker 1 (43:22):
Yeah, because it came from one person.
Speaker 3 (43:25):
So I think we're I think I'm cap it and
say whatever.
Speaker 1 (43:31):
Two coaches that you like, they can't know.
Speaker 2 (43:33):
I feel like the two coaches the coaches because I
feel like we don't always talk about the.
Speaker 3 (43:36):
Coaches that I'm giving you a chance throw them out there.
Speaker 1 (43:39):
I'll say.
Speaker 2 (43:40):
Keith Millard, it was a great past rusher with with
the Vikings. You know, he was telling me stories about
when Pete was was just a g a and all
this kind of stuff, and he came to check his
room and he threw like a sandwich at Pete Carroll
like like you know, and Dolman and all those guys
that he played with. He was a great coaching, like
(44:01):
teaching me how to pass rush. And then also dan
Quinn was really good because I think he was like
one of the first people was like, yo, you're gonna
play every position. Like I remember in preseason, I was like,
I looked over it was my first time ever playing
special teams. I feel like I never had to play
special teams until I got to the NFL and I
was looking and I remember my when the coach Richard
told me, well, Michael, I know you never played special teams,
(44:22):
but the only way to get on special team.
Speaker 1 (44:24):
Is to make a lot of plays.
Speaker 2 (44:25):
And he was like, hell, every time I see Richie
always like he took my advice, huh, because it was
like I.
Speaker 1 (44:30):
Went in there. I never I was like, yo, what
is going on on this kickoff team?
Speaker 2 (44:34):
Like it's just a lot of people moving, like because
you know, if you a defensive end and you a
defensive a pass rush, you never really own special team
until you get to the NFL as a rookie and
it's like you like, yo, what is a punt?
Speaker 1 (44:44):
Like you're trying to like you're trying to move your
leg back like.
Speaker 3 (44:47):
You're talking to the wrong person. He don't know about
none of that. It's cool. Yeah, that was cool.
Speaker 1 (44:53):
I got you.
Speaker 3 (44:54):
We were all good. Hey we Yeah you got it.
I got it. He don't I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (45:01):
Yeah, I know you don't do special teams. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (45:04):
I was drafted pretty high, so I skipped that part
of my career.
Speaker 3 (45:08):
Yeah you did.
Speaker 1 (45:08):
Congratulations, you kept a lot more brain cells.
Speaker 2 (45:12):
And it takes me long to realize, like, yo, I
don't need to be out here, like this is all
this is like it was just like it was like
a like a animal zoos, like it's like anything goes
out here, like like this is crazy.
Speaker 1 (45:23):
Listen to game. It's like there's a stop.
Speaker 2 (45:25):
You line up, there's people coming down hunt one two
to only fifty four mic seventy three, and you kind
of like I'm feeling it, but Special Team wants the
balls kicked.
Speaker 1 (45:33):
It's like, yo, chaos, It's chaos.
Speaker 2 (45:36):
I'm glad they changed it too, because like a lot
of I know a lot of guys right now that's
laying at home with broken bags and broken arms, Like yo,
I could have played a lot longer.
Speaker 1 (45:43):
If I have to do that special team remember the Wedge.
Speaker 3 (45:46):
Oh yeah, I wouldn't get I didn't have to worry
about it. I wouldn't worry about the waves.
Speaker 6 (45:50):
Well, we're gonna we're going to continue this, yeah, after
we cut the camera.
Speaker 4 (45:55):
Michael Man, dude, number one, you and Mark Tellers are
so one of the most intelligent men I've got to experience,
and so shout out to your family, your parents for
allowing you, guys to be who you are and so
ultimately don't change.
Speaker 3 (46:10):
I love that about you.
Speaker 4 (46:13):
I've read about you, I've seen you on TV, I've
seen you represent yourselves and played against you many times,
not always being successful, and you know, so shout out
to you for continue to be who you are and
I can't wait to see you're You're The things that
you're creating design wise are absolutely gorgeous than you you know,
and I looked at some of your pieces and it's incredible.
(46:34):
So great job. I didn't know that much about it,
but now I will continue to look up. I'll even
show my wife because she loves pretty much everything that
you're probably doing. So I appreciate that. To that then
my guy, well, I won't say the same thing to y'all.
Speaker 2 (46:45):
Feel like y'all have like influenced us, and like the
way that you guys are caring yourself a man, and
like having this platform. I think a lot of times
a show like the second act is super important because
people get forgotten. It's like it's important to tell people
that there's a second part of your life that you
gotta be focused on and thinking about. So I think
you guys, like I said, like we always had to
watch you and like watching you guys on defense and
(47:07):
watching the way you play. I think it's like, I'm
happy to be in this conversation with you guys. I
think we just don't have that platform, and I think
it's important that you guys are showing us shedding the
light on what's happening to people when they're not in
the league anymore.
Speaker 4 (47:19):
Appreciate that, man, Thank you, no doubt, man, we don't
have to do that with the ending are great, Thank you,
thank you.
Speaker 1 (47:27):
It was just kind of hot.
Going to coach Richie.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
But she told me, well, Michael, I know you never
played special teams, but the only way to get a
special team is to make.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
A lot of plays.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
And and he was like, hell, every time I see
Richie always like he took my advice, huh, because it
was like I went in there.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
I never I was like, yo, what is going on
on this kickoff team?
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Like it's just a lot of people moving, like because
you know, if you're a defensive end and you a
defensive your pastors, you never really own special team until
you get to the NFL as a rookie and it's
like you like, yo, what is a punt?
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Like you're trying to like you're trying to move your
leg back, like you're talking.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
To the wrong person. You don't know about none of that.
It's cool. Yeah, I was tam I got you. I
feel you were all good.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
I know you don't do special teams.
Speaker 4 (00:39):
Yeah, I was drafted pretty high, so I skipped that
part of my career.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Yeah, congratulations, you kept a lot more brain cells.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
And it takes me long to realize, like, yo, I
don't need to be out here, like anything goes out here, Like.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
What if everybody.
Speaker 5 (00:59):
I'm Peanut Till and this is the NFL Player's Second
Acts Podcast and with me as always as my trustee
co host, Roman Harper, and I'm so excited about this
next guest. He just got here and we're just gonna
get right into it. This guy is a three time
pro bowler. He is one of the top fifty Seattle
Seahawks of all time, and he is an author, an activist,
(01:21):
a designer, Super Bowl champion. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome
Michael Binnett to the past.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Thank you, guys.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
All right, So what is it, Phil?
Speaker 4 (01:30):
You just kind of brought it up, your boy Bobby
Wagner winning the Man of thee the Man of the Year,
Walter Payton Man of the Year.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Well, I feel like, I don't know, I feel like
Bobby deserves it.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
I think, you know, I think everybody on our team
during that time, he got an opportunity to be around
a lot of older guys.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
Who were very committed to the community.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
And I think he's taking that and tripled that and
turned it into something else and continue into like.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Just give where he goes.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Whe every team he's on, he's made an impact, whether
it was through Seattle, whether it was in on what
the DC area or LA where you know where he's
connected to. So I'm really proud of him. You know,
you see a lot of young guys, you never know
what they really going to turn into. I think a
lot of times people are judging the player of just
of how they play. And I think if people allays
remember you for the way you play on the field,
(02:17):
you kind of failed yourself a little bit too. So
to see Bobby get that award, you know, recognize his
mother and then he's done it and what this is
his thirteen year day He's receiving this award, isn't It's
just like the lead up throughout his career of everything.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
That's kind of happening.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
And then finally that last stage is like he beat
the final balls, he got.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
The money, Yeah, he got the girl, and then he
got the.
Speaker 4 (02:38):
Award, he got that second contract Seattle. Then all of
a sudden he goes to l A does great. Yeah,
and all of a sudden you think he may be done. No,
he goes to Washington and then he wins this award.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
He wins this award.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
I mean the team didn't play good, but at least
somebody got somebody got something else, somebody got honest.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Yeah, somebody got selling you.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Yeah, because some of those games, like they were weren't
worth watching.
Speaker 5 (02:58):
And how does it so in twenty seventeen though you
were the Seahawks finalists or nomination for our many or
how did that make you feel?
Speaker 1 (03:07):
I was? I feel good?
Speaker 2 (03:08):
I mean, I feel like I've I feel like I
grew up watching or seeing like my father the way
he was committed to the community, whether it was like
football coaching or bringing people back to the team just
in general, making food or driving people to the games,
just kind of being you know, my mother was a
teacher in the community. So I've seen so much of
(03:28):
how you you know, do and show up for your
community in that way. So I feel like for me
as a player, that was kind of normal. Like if
we talk about like players that I looked up to,
whether it was or athletes you know, talking about like
Muhammad Ali, John Carlos, you, doctor Harry Edward's like, you know,
just continuing like the legacy of people who have made
(03:51):
tremendous impact in their community and also not using their platform,
but not only what they for you know, advertising, but
for humanity.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
I think that's really important. For me.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
It was a big honor because you know, me and
my wife were doing so much in the community, and
you know, whether it was like a juvenile attention centers Africa,
you know, you know, somebody like Cliff and my teammate
was doing the things in Haiti and doing things locally,
you know.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Mentoring boys.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
So it was like, you know, so many great players
and people happened to do it. So I felt like
having that award was a true honor because that was
a competition on our team, like who could be the
best person you know what I'm saying, not just the
best player, but who had the most impact.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
You know.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
We always tell guys now it's like, you know, people
see us not because we won the super Bowl. Obviously
we were the first person winning Super Bowl and our team,
so that's really important. But I think the thing that
people don't really realize. I told the young guys or
guys that's playing now that's older like Leonard Williams and
the rest of these guys, like the community has to
see you outside of your helmet in the atmosphere. That
doesn't really require you getting paid, but just you committed
(04:50):
to the people that are that are involved in that
in that community. So for me to be a person
that represented the Seahawks like that was a real great honor.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
Where does that honor?
Speaker 4 (05:00):
I mean that award being named that for your team,
especially when you just name you know, Cliff and everybody
else doing their things and everybody else competing literally competing
in the community to be who's the best guy? What
is that rank for you as far as like you
winning that award.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Top one of the top three?
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Well, I don't know, maybe top seven okay, yeah, yeah, okay,
on top seven it's right there, but it's.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Like other stuff.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
Yeah, yeah, you did a lot of other stuff.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
I did a lot did so it's like, yo, but
maybe I'm the top five.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
It definitely wasn't really top It was one of one
of the best moments because you get that award and
you have an opportunity to be to be semitted in
Seattle's history is not just as a great player, but
it's a great citizen. I think that's really important.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
Tell me this, where does it the award go?
Speaker 4 (05:46):
Where you know you start wearing the little boy pads,
Like how did you know you were like one of
the first, like you, yeah, it's not you didn't look weird.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
But yeah, I can see I can imagine somebody like
you know, you see me, Like yo, why this guy
show pass so small?
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Right?
Speaker 2 (06:00):
So it's like at the end of the day, I
feel like I just wanted to, you know, be able
to move my hands, be able to like I never
really really cared about getting injured.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
I was like, if I actually tackle somebody.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
Right, properly, I probably won't get injured, right if like
you look talk about technique is like everybody had to
watch Peanut Tielman's technique on fumbling every single week. We
had to watch that tape. And that's how you make
a This is how you make a fumble. This is
how you do it.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
You have to watch you know how many times you
have to watch you.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Every week, every single day, turnover Thursday, I had to
watch it, had to watch it again on Saturday before
the game of how to make the proper technique to
make a fumble? Right? And I think if you talk
about tackling, that's the same thing. Like we watched a
lot of rugby, a lot of this and then for
me as a smaller player in some ways because I
played inside and outside. Technique was really important. So like
if you have the proper technique, you probably won't get injured.
(06:51):
You know, the time you put your body in the
actual odio position and then you actually, you know, make
a bad tackle. You end up breaking your neck or
you end up being in a position out of your
whole body.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
Being able to make a tackle.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
But if you look at Rugby's how they make tackles,
it's like it's like completely on the shoulder and things.
So for me as a defense alignment, I'm usually tackling
a person right when they getting the ball, so I'm
not really you know, taking on like like you guys
when it's like a safety like oh bad for safety,
Like you know, you back there and like you're back.
It's like, oh, here comes ag and Peter said, oh
he just got past alignment. Okay, okay, maybe the linebacker agatting. No, okay,
(07:25):
nobody's got it. Okay in the corner, all right, it's
my turn. It's like, nah, you got this whole field.
You have to make a tackle. So it's like what
defense alignment is, Like I'm usually getting hitting a guy
right when he's getting the ball or right the line
of scream. So it's like I'm really never really running
through like full long contact.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
Well it makes sense. I always wanted to know, so
it makes sense now.
Speaker 5 (07:44):
So a guy that goes undrafted, you make three Pro Bowls,
you won a Super Bowl Championship, You're one of the
top fifty players in the Seattle Seahawks history in their organization.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
How much growth did you have?
Speaker 2 (08:00):
I think I had an opportunity to be around so
many great players. I think my rookie year being around
Ronde Barber, that kind of really changed my trajectory as
a player, Like seeing how Rende would train, seeing how
Rende would, you know, get a massage. I remember just
like asking Ronde, like, man, how you doing this? Like
it was your fifteen when I was there. So watching
Ronde Barber and the way that he approached the game
really helped me transform into a better player earlier in
(08:23):
my career. And then also having an opportunity to be
around Albert Hansworth. I know that he gets a lot
of bad credit for just some of the things he did,
but he was a good player. And I think one
thing that I learned from the opera was like it
was like one of the people that told me like
to believe in myself.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
Early on, It's like, man, you got.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Talent, Mike, you should be starting no matter what. Like
he was one of the guys that was like, you
needed this, how you rush the passer? So I think
early on having guys like that and the coaches like
Keith Millard like pushing me towards great greatness. And I think,
you know, I had an opportunity to play with Jerald
McCoy early on, and we was just getting started. I
kind of sometimes like like I feel like like if
we stayed together for like seven years, we probably would
(08:59):
have had like crazy stats because we were just kind
of getting going in that in that defense and just
learning how to play with each other. So I think
that that helped me, like early on, and then coming
to Seattle and have an opportunity to be around Dan
Quinn again. I think when I first came into the league,
coming to Seattle, I had an opportunity to play with
Dan and I remember the first time he was like, oh,
you gotta play inside. We got guys on the outside.
(09:21):
You need to get better, you.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
It was just like, you know, Dan was always on
me and we built a close relationship. So when he
came back from Florida and he was going to Seattle,
he called me, you know, like, oh yeah, you know,
need you come play up here.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
I'm like, nah, no, I'm good.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
I was down in Miami on my on my trip
and I remember I was like, uh. It was like
it was like, can't wait in there, And it was like, oh, well,
Cam's here, and so you gotta play on the right side.
I was like, I don't know, man. I was like,
I don't know. I don't know if I could play
on the right side. I feel like on the left side,
I'm like ninety eight on Madden, but on the right side,
I'm like barely touching.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
Eighty, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
So I was like that matters, Like I was like
Madden ninety left in ninety six to ninety eight, you
know what I'm saying. But the other side I'm just okay.
So I was like, I don't know if I want
to do that. So when they called me, I went
up there, and that's the first time I had an
opportunity to be around so many great players. I feel
like guys kept pushing me, like opportunity to play with Cliff.
I think that helped me with learning the things that
(10:18):
I wasn't good at as a defensivelignment, seeing how he practiced,
seeing how me bank practice. I think me brain was
one of the most intellectual players I ever played with,
so seeing how he saw the game, how.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
He moved through through the field.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
And I played with Big Rid since I was in college,
so that was super simple to come back. We were
super close together already, and so that was the time
that the game had to really like, My game jumped
another level. Is because it's like you don't have to
do everything. You just do your job.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
You know.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
Sometimes you get on the team and you try to
like do more, you know, and then you end up
doing less. And I think that's the thing you have
to really, you know, watch yourself as a player. You know,
you don't want to be like Anthony Davis.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
Who's just hurt. No, you can't hurt your finger a
good time, non shooting finger. You talk, what does he
need his finger for?
Speaker 4 (11:04):
Tell you it's some Laker fans in here, So like, bro,
that's a bad like it's a bad place for us
to start just.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
Telling you like no, Luca was a better trade though.
For sure, for sure Dallas got the short end of
that stick. Let's all right, let's lock back in.
Speaker 4 (11:16):
You mentioned Cliff April and how he was opposite defensive
Indue you, but like, what is it like when you
go with somebody that's opposite to you? But man, he
has different, different skill sets, And how great is it
to see somebody else with different, completely different skill sets
perform at such a high level, because then you kind
of still a little bit of out of his bag
(11:37):
and he's learned one percent.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
I think you learned a lot of different things from
people when they are doing It's like you watch Cliff game,
It's like his speed, the power and getting around the edge.
It's like things in the past rush game that he
taught me. Right, It's like, okay, well, Michael, you need
to give them the edge a little bit more in
a three technique loosening up a little bit. We did
this in Detroit. Sue was doing this. So if you
move over a little bit to the left, you know,
now we both ends again, and I'm like, oh, you
(12:00):
know what I'm saying. So it's like it's like, now
you just do what you need to do and like
you know, when I'm up and up, and then you
start to really learn how to play, like right, it's
cause it's like you got to have that symbiotic relationship,
you know, in the game, because it's like if you
don't have that, you're going to be in each other's way.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
You know.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Then the first time you get out there, you start
getting each other's way and you realize there's no success
happening for anybody. Right, It's like then it's like sometimes
I get out the ball first and he comes around,
and sometimes you get out the ball first, I gotta
go inside. I think that's kind of where I kind
of improve my game, is like learning more about how
to line up and using your alignment as a as
a weapon for the people that you're going against.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Right, because the.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
Guard once they sit, they just they can't move like
they move its offside.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
I can literally start at.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
A two technique and move to a three technique before
the ball snaps, and there's nothing wrong with that. And
I think using that as a part of my game
is allowed me to improve and become a better player.
I think that was really important learning that type of skill,
especially like long arm and getting off and then It's like,
you know, I was. I was always really good in
the run game. Like that was just something that was
like normal to me. It's like, you know, just to
(12:59):
tell people like it's just like.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
I don't know what you do. I just do that.
I just that was just it right.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
It's like since I was a kid, I like I
refuse to let somebody get a yard, you know what
I'm saying, Like I just wouldn't because I was a
running back before I was a defensive end.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
Of course, everybody tell about that that running back that
everybody got that.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
No, I wasn't running back. It's okay. I was a
really good running back in to ten grade.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
And then you know, you go to practice and big kids,
didn you see like another human.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
You're like, yo, he's a really good running back.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
I don't think I could do what he can do.
And I was like, yeah, I guess I go play
defensive end.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Like you know.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
The coach was like yeah, you know, like it was
a kid named Courty Mass, like he was a good player.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
He just he just was like it's okay. It couldn't
get the grades.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
If he would have got the grades we were, he
would have been the NFL but he was so good
at running back that when I saw him start playing
running back, I was like, it was the first time.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
I was like, y'all, don't know, man, maybe maybe I should.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Do something else UK receiver look, you know, like, but
Courdy was so good that the coach was like, yo,
you should play defense, and I was just like, okay,
I'll go play defense.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
So I didn't really play defense until I was like
in ten grade. Nice.
Speaker 5 (14:01):
It was the same thing we were talking about earlier
about the everybody wants to be a receiver that she's got.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
It's like fifty kids.
Speaker 5 (14:07):
In the receiver line, but nobody wants to play d
NS and it's like ten kids.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
So no, DVB's the hardest position on the field, though
it is it is, it is tell me this then, nobody.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
What was your Welcome.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
To the NFL. Welcome to the NFL. I have two
give them to him. The first one was against Walter Jones. Man,
oh my god, I don't know why. Every time I
see walking too that, I'm like, you know, my hip
still hurts, right, because it's one of those things.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
Like you know what was one of them people that was.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
Like like, it's like somebody made him here, like, you know,
God was like this guy like, this is why I
want to be an office alargnment. Here's my here's my
commitment to the world. And he made Walter Jones right,
and it's like there's very few people like that, right.
Julie Peppers is like, here's here's the guy.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
Charles Wilson like, yeah, here's what he's supposed to look like. Right,
HP is running back.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
And I feel like with Walter Jones, man, I was
out there, I was like beating everybody practice. I was
on drafted, so I was like, man, I don't care,
you know, guard everybody, Chris Spencer, whoever was out there.
They was like, yo, you gotta slow down, got slow down,
rook And Walter Jones told me one time, you need
to slow down. Nobody could beat me. And I messed
around and went around him one time, and you know,
(15:14):
like he had his chin strap undone. I saw that,
you know, he clicked that. Hey, I still knew that
was a sign right there. I would say, like, you're
not having your think yeah, like you know, like he
put that on.
Speaker 6 (15:24):
Man.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Boy, he pushed me so hard. Boy.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
I still I still have dreams about that like it
was terrible, Like, but Walter Jones is my first one
because he like just really just.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
Did he finish you? I mean, he just threw me
with He was the strongest human I ever met.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
Get thrown out the club white.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
Actually, Hilardi Naughty was the strongest suit human I ever met.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
Oh yeah, Hellodi's huge.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
Holodi was the strongest person I've ever seen in my life.
So tell me the second one. The second one, Carl Nicks.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
Oh big Carl.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Yeah, because when he came to Tempa Bay and he
kept telling me that, hey, I'm gonna tell you again,
and he hit me in my chest.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
Boy, you know, I feel like, you know that that.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
Little prayer thing they had, like did Jesus walking behind
me with the sand?
Speaker 1 (16:08):
I see the footsteps of the sand. That was like
the opposite hit.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
I could see his foot person his hand printed my
chest like he hit me so hard. I feel like
my chest just started to stop for a second breathing.
Just because car was a huge human, you know what
I'm saying. And every day he had to go get
his practice with him and that was one of the
people that like, I feel like if I could be
called you know, four times then like I could be
everybody else nine times, you know, So it was like
(16:32):
a car. Knicks was definitely the second person that I
was like, Yo, this is another human that didn't make
any sense.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
Yeah, he is a massive person.
Speaker 5 (16:39):
And what point did you know it was time to
retire playing this game.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
I feel like I had to make myself retired though,
because I felt like like I was like sitting there.
I was in Dallas, and I was like, it's like, man,
I grew up. None of the guys wanted to be models,
and I feel like now everybody wanted to be a model,
you know what I'm saying, Like every guy wanted to
walk down the catwalk, right.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
And I was like, yo, this is just different, you
know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
I'm so used to like people having screwdrivers in their
hands and like changing the tires and like, you know,
like it was just like a different It was different,
like people like a different vibe, Like they checking the Twitter, like, yo,
we lose it.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
You try to see what they're talking about. You know,
we lose it. Why are you checking Twitter? I feel
like it was just like I just came.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
I was like the last of like the two days
and all old school, the old school.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
So I was like a part of the old school
of football.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
So I came in like it was two days and
we had all the old vets and like, so I
came in like at that time where it was like,
you know, people, you're going to practice, you get knocked out,
you know what I mean. And and so it's like
I feel like I transitioned all the way to the end,
and I just like felt like I'm too old for
this game.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
I'm too old for it, right.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
It was like and then I was in there and
I was just like I was at the Cowboys, and
I was just like, I don't know, I feel like
it's just a different game. And I felt like I
came from the generation of where it was like really
important to have like.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
Honor and and.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Colde and like brotherhood, and it was less about throwing
your you know, your guy under the bus and more
about like standing standing together and believing in something that
was really more important, like winning really meant something like
going out there and being dominant actually meant something like
loving the game, Like you know, you see your teammate
get hurt and you actually shed a tear because you
(18:21):
actually loved that person, Like Yo, some teams that's not
like that. It's like, yo, it's my turn to get
in the game, Like you know, I was waiting. I
would have did it myself. Thank you, Charles, you know,
like because it's like you took him out like I
did want to take him out. I was like every
day I was, I was hoping, like it's like but
like being on a team where it's actually love. I
felt like that's what I had a chance to experience
(18:42):
in Seattle, and.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
That kind of like was what my experience was.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
That was what I felt like football should be, the brotherhood,
the love for the game. Watching film like Gods Back,
I ain't watch no Felm. I'm like, okay, like why's
that good? Like it's not at all. It's not like
being on a game and being able to talk on
the intellectual level about what's happening to the point where
coaches are respecting what you're saying.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
There's your preparation, Like that was what I came from.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
So then I didn't have that no more, and I
just felt like it was kind of like it was
kind of missed ip member. I stood up in front
of the D line, I mean the whole defense, and
I was like, you know, I feel like I had
to tell the team because I feel like if I
didn't tell them, like I would have not retired, right,
I had did like stand up and like say it vocally,
And I said it vocally before one of the last games.
I was like, yo, this'd be my last time playing.
(19:32):
I enjoyed the NFL, like you guys should do your thing,
and like even when I retired, people, I was like
in New Zealand, I was still getting calls to like,
you know, come play or whatever, and I was like,
I don't know, man, I just felt like I just
kind of And I was also like in between that
lane of like you know, like at one point, are
you are you you know, doing your family and justice?
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Are you doing yourself injustice?
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Right? It's like I see guys out there, like I
can still be playing too, Like today if I really
just went through the process of playing, like like it
was like, you know, older you get, the less practice.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
You got to do. At some point, you just know
the game more than other people, do you know.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
I see Claus out there, cam, everybody's out there, and
like I just felt like I just want to keep
my brain too, you know what I'm saying, And I
want to be there for my family.
Speaker 3 (20:13):
We'll be back in a minute.
Speaker 4 (20:17):
You had this quote about retirement, and you tell me
what you meant by this. It said, retiring feels a
little like death of self, but I'm looking forward to
the rebirth, the opportunity to reimagine my purpose.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
I think there was like Delta, a person that I
once was. Right, It's like every person that plays in
the NFL, we get so attached to what comes with
playing with the NFL. You know, the people knowing you,
people loving you, and you loving loving be in love
that way, and like, you know, you come to this
place of trying to understand what's your true purpose in life?
(20:54):
Who are you supposed to be? Am I only supposed
to be you know, a football player? Or is it
more to me? I think that that's really important. It's
like that's really a delt depth to your ego, like
to be reborn as a new spiritual being and like
allowing yourself to fly in different ways. I think that's
really a challenge, right, It's like the challenge is trying that.
You know, it's just easy to stay committed to something
(21:16):
that you know everything about, there's nothing to imagine. Like
right now, we all can know exactly what's happening in
the super Bowl. We know we all played in Super Bowl.
We know how the practice is going, we know what
the coach is saying. We can predict everything that's about
to happen because we went through every single schedule. We
know how bus rides happen, massages, what type of the
family pressure that people are feeling. But then like you
(21:36):
try something else, like you try doing the FBI, Like
that's a whole other world to try to experience and
the right the process and the determination and discover and
cannot really push my brain the way that I push
my body. And I think that's really kind of a
real challenge as ourselves to do right.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
And I think that's really where I was.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
Trying to do, is trying to really reimagine what the
possibilities of what Michael Bennett could be follow up.
Speaker 3 (22:01):
Has Michael Bennett succeeded in that? I think I have.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
I think I've always been able to, you know, being
undrafted has always taught me that discipline was super important,
and like I've always carried a chip on my shoulders,
so anything that I try to do, I try to
push myself to the max. Like I'm a maximalist in
a bad way, you know what I'm saying, Like like.
Speaker 4 (22:20):
I scared my wife is a maximalist. Always throwing that
around too, Like I don't know if I like that.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
No, but I'm saying, like, for example, like a maximumist
in a good way, not like a bunch of things.
But like I started playing tennis, right, it's like love
that I started playing tennis to the fact that I
think I'm going to the US Opening. So it's like
that's that's a problem. That's just a problem.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
A week single eggs, this is what this is what
Federer does? You know, I need to get these jok
of issues.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
To a point where it's like it's I'm only watching tennis,
like you know, I love that. So I'm like, so
anything that I get into, I just start to go
down a deep path on it. So like architecture, I
just went the first you can go like you know,
I'm gonna go to architecture school hardship, but still did it,
you know what I'm saying, And like still doing architecture
is my own work practice, and furniture and design and
stuff like that. So anything that I get into is
(23:11):
like it's a I'm gonna like watch it and try
to understand it, read about it, absorb it in a
way that.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
It becomes something that's second nature to me.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
That's just how I always been like, And you know,
I don't know if that's good or bad.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
Like so no, I think it's good.
Speaker 5 (23:24):
It's it's I think it's worked out for it. But
let's let's let's stay on that topic. So architecture, uh, writing, writing, poetry,
A designer football player, Why did you choose football over
the other ones.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
When I was young?
Speaker 2 (23:41):
Yeah, I feel like it was a path that I
understood it was like, and I feel like it was
kind of chosen too for me too. Right, It's like
growing up in Texas is so different than any other place.
Playing football, It's like you get identified, you get identified
super early. It's like yo, like, yeah, we was gonna
we thought you should have two englishes, but we replaced
it with extra football were we was thinking that, you know,
(24:07):
you actually need three p's, but we made it six.
So now you had four hours to do football during
school time, you got an.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
Hour to work out watch over trade.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
So it was like so it was like okay, like
you know, it's like, well you can get a scholarship.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
And like, well you can get a scholarship, and it's
like when.
Speaker 4 (24:24):
Your GPA is going to be higher, yes, because you
know you got more physics, were planning your straight sho.
Speaker 3 (24:33):
GP is going.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
Yeah. It's like and it's like you get there and
it's like yo.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
And then I remember like even being in college, like
at Texas and everybody was in agriculture of science and
it was so funny. I remember one of the deans
was like, you guys, yeah, we had like one of
those dean meetings with all the students in there. He's like, uh,
do you guys know which degree makes the most money
in here at the school? And I was like yeah, doctor, lawyer, engineer.
(24:59):
He's like no, oh, this one. They said wow.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
So sir, we got every single athlete in this program
that's a good basketball, football, and baseball. Everybody was an
agricultural science.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
So it was like it was like we're learning about turf,
but you know, it was actually a good degree because
it's like, you know, you can learn about the land,
learn about everything. So it was like we always had
to do study it. So it was like an interesting
kind of degree path. But going back, I was like, oh,
maybe I should pay attention a little bit more. But
it was like, you know, but I feel like choosing
that was like, you know, football was such an important thing,
Like I actually loved football. Like I'm not onet of
(25:33):
people that'd be like, yo, I hate football, Like I
actually loved football. I actually loved everything about the history
of football, like the people that came before me. Like
I see veterans and people that I like, you know
that I walk up to and I'm just like, yo,
Like I started playing a game because of you, you know,
like they're like remember that game nineteen seventy eight, or
like this game happened in two thousand and two. You
did this move, And I was like, because I actually
(25:54):
loved football, Like I love the history of it. What
player went to West School?
Speaker 1 (25:57):
What did they do? Who was a guy?
Speaker 2 (25:59):
Like I watched guys, I watched film. I love watching film.
Grow up playing in the NFL, like I watched so
much film. I'll just be in there watching. I'll just
be like just watching.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
I'm like, yo, you.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
Said what Justin Smith did on play forty eight against
the Saints. You know what I'm saying, Like, just because
I love football, I love though the guys that came
before me. I love the process of the people that
what they did to get to the guys who took
the NFL to make it to where it is now,
Like they don't get a lot of love. But I
think a lot of the young guys don't even recognize
old players. So I remember like watching some of the guys,
you know, like who is in that camp Scattabu, Like, yeah,
(26:30):
they showed him Calvin Johnson. He was like, I don't
know who this is, and they was like, oh, this
Calvin Johnson. But he knew the stats.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
But if Calvin Johnson walked in front of his face,
he was no Calvin Johnson.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Like that wouldn't happen to me. You know, I would
know who if really Rof walked by or whoever walked by.
You know, if Reggie White was still alive and he
walked by, I'd be like, Yo, that's Reggie White. You
know what I mean, Like, you know, I see Warren
Sapp or I see any great players like I saw
Michael shra Haan and yesterday or you know, I was
just telling him like, man, remember that game and this way,
and it's just like they respect it because a lot
(26:59):
of times they get that they get left behind. Like,
you know, I love watching y'all when y'all play, especially
when you're watching the Saints. You guys dominated watching Chicago
Bears play defense, everybody on that defense, and the kind
of watching the midway just just out there right. It's
like when I played for the Tampa Bay I got
to watch it. I mean, we played against y'all so
much that we wasn't good. We never beat y'all, but
damn it was not. It was just watching y'all play defense,
(27:21):
you know, like Junior Goallett and everybody else's defense, and
like just the will Smith everybody just like it was
just a great team to watch. Johnathan Wilma and watching
you guys play and everybody Lance and ear Lacker and
just the whole defensive line, Israel, Tommy Harris, like those
were like those were like those like the stacked Stack team. So,
like I said, I think I also loved football, Like
(27:43):
I grew up wanting to be like a Tampa Bay
buccaneer growing up.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
That was my favorite team growing up.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
Random coming from Texas.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
But I love Derek Brooks too, like you know, Simme
and Rice, who should be in the Hall of Fame.
He's great expires Like I was like Booker mc farland,
Warren sapp everybody on that team that was just Shelton Corals,
people that didn't get get named, like Rende Barber, everybody
else on that defense. Like I love watching them play
(28:09):
defense and watching Tampa two play. So I just when
I grew up, I just I just tell Warrant step
all the time. Every time I talk to Derek Brooks.
He was like, why are you approaching me like that?
I was like, man, I respect you. You don't understand
I actually watched you playing the growing up.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
Tell me this.
Speaker 4 (28:23):
So first of all, you're a highly intelligent guy, and
shout out to you for being that person and really
showing that and really showing that personality of who you are.
I want to know how you kind of found your
current passion, which is designing, and you have what studiocur
the different furniture pieces comes from different historical backgrounds, different things,
(28:46):
Like everything seems to have a purpose in this designing
world that you're in right now.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
Yeah, I think design is super important. I think everything
that we enter or we feel is designed. Don't know
how we walk into a door, the size of a door.
Everything is calculated in the way the speculations of a building,
looking at how the walls are across from each other,
or even looking at freeways or looking at how people.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
Have access to stores. That's design.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Either design could be designed for good or it could
be designed for bad. Hostile architecture the way that people design.
So for me historically look at hostile architecture, that's a thing.
That's the thing that's like when you see like a
bench and they start putting like bars on it or
so they don't homeless people sleeping on it, or they're
designed something in a way that's like you look at
it and you're like, yo, this feels hostile in a way,
(29:31):
Like it feels like it's going against the natural current
of way humans should be. Like the way that a
water would kind of be in a river and it
will flow naturally, but if a brick is in there,
it starts to it flows differently. So you look at
like a street or anything like that, somebody's designing it
to be that way. So the ghetto is not natural,
it's designed that way. It's not natural to be people
to be stacked up on each other, not to have
(29:52):
access to natural light, not to have access to food.
That's a real People really sit down and design that
they don't design with empathy. So I think, for me,
when I think about architecture, I've always started as being
aware of empathy. And so for me when I think
about you know, my furniture and my design practice is
rooted in the black history, but in a way about
discovering new forms, right, how do I take like, you know,
(30:14):
it's just being a black man, Like a lot of
me is African like, but it's distorted in a way.
It's like it's fragmented. I can't remember it, but I
know that it's there. Right, It's like you think about gumball,
you think about the dishes that we are, things that
we do, like, that's our heritage. We reformed it and
thought about it in a new context, but it's still there.
So a lot of what a designer is like looking
(30:35):
at African culture but realizing that I'm also an American
in a way, and how do I bridge those to
think about it? Right? Remix those things created new forms
to think about the spatial logic of something is really important.
I spent a lot of time in my day working
on projects like that, whether it's a building, whether it's
a furniture, or thinking about memorials or designing memorials for people.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
And I think.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
That type of commitment to research, that type of commitment
to thinking about people in a more communal way, is
really important to my practice.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
I think that's really the thing that I do every day.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
I mean, it's tiring mentally because it's like sometime I'm like,
you know, I just want to watch YouTube, you know,
because sometimes it's like I'm constantly like thinking and like
having to think at large scales and then thinking at
small scales, right Like designing the museum, It's like that's
a big project to think about, how can something change
the way that people, you know, go into a community.
It's like I have to think about, you know, the windows,
(31:29):
how much life got to be in here, how much
is the access to the people, what points where people
come into How can I make something feel so different
think about it in a different context.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
So I think a lot of that is.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
Where kind of like when my design practice is rooted
in research, and I think a lot I think about
this African dispect forms and languages, and I just think
about it through different scales, so whether that's running your pieces,
and I think there's last collection that I did, working
on a new one, but the last one was around
this idea of.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
Getting back to the crib.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
Was really about getting rooted to like the things that
are rooted in the love and kind of like remembrance
of that, because I think so much of being black
is about traumatic experiences, but I don't want that to
be the only experience that we feel.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
Right, some of the experiences we actually feel our love.
We know what it feels like for your mother.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
To sacrifice something and out of love, working over time
to get you that present for Christmas, or being there
for Sunday dinner your grandma made the most the best biscuits,
or the fried chicken nobody want to eat Anti Janis
spaghetti or yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
Because you don't put enough sugar in it. You know
what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
Like those feelings of what family feel like, and I
think that's really important to remember that we also are
human in that way. I think that's really important to
dignify who we are and to make sure that people
realize that we just are a vulnerable experience, or we
just not also not just a traumatic experience. We are
a full spectrum of humanity, love, pain and joy.
Speaker 5 (32:47):
So, as a football player, where's that fall on your list?
And how would you describe yourself as a player?
Speaker 2 (32:54):
Man, I think, Man, where's football? I think Football's number
one thing I did. I think, and I'm actually proud
of that. I know a lot of people want to
shy away from this idea about football, but I had
to work really hard to get to the position that
I was in a lot of sacrifices, a lot of
late nights, a lot of studying, and actually loving the game.
So I think football was something I really appreciated. I
don't mind when people come up to me and say, like, yo,
(33:16):
you Mchael benefrom Seahawks.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
I'm like, yeah, that's cool. Like some people really like
don't you hate it?
Speaker 4 (33:20):
Though?
Speaker 2 (33:20):
Like when you in New Orleans, Joia, Chicago and people
are talking to you like like I was a kid.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
Remember when I was a kid, and you didn't that
shit make you feel older?
Speaker 2 (33:28):
Right?
Speaker 5 (33:28):
It does make you feel that does make you And
the person saying he was an adult now pies beer yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
Like, so, I like, I love the experience of football.
But what I would say that my thing was.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
I feel like I was like people always called me
a renaissance man, and I feel like that was my
thing in football, Right, I did a lot of different things.
I did good just at one thing. I was like
a great run stopper, a great pass rusher. I played
multiple positions. I would say that like I just was
kind of like a Swiss harmony knife. I did a
lot of different things, like whether whatever the team required
me to do, I try to do. Like if there's like, oh,
(34:02):
you got to play nose this week, I play nose.
You know what I'm saying, Because at the end of
the day, I always felt like no matter what the
position was, it still was a defensive line position regardless.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
So I think that's one of the things I feel like.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
I feel like, yeah, I feel like I was a
renaissance man when I play, Like I still read books,
I still did everything I wanted to do, still went
home and was with the family, Like I just kind
of just did what I needed to do. Use it
as as as a wave of you know, do I
stole football was an art too? Right, It's the art
of the body, like it takes a lot of take
a lot to be out there, like, you know, having
to watch the video over and over. I never got
(34:34):
one right, you know what I mean. I think I
might've heard my wrists like more times than I actually
got it right. But those guys, it's a real technique.
It's a real technique, and it's like, it's like when
you do get it, it's an art to it to
watch somebody and be in the movement and see when okay,
on the third hand, that's when I punched, you know,
like a great boxer.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
It's the art of it right. And then being a
great pastor is the same way.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
It's like on the third step when he crosses over
his went out strike, you know what I mean, Any
strike before be be failure, but if I struck at
the right moment, it's art.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
And I think that's kind of what I've always thought
about football.
Speaker 4 (35:06):
One thing that my research definitely didn't tell me, and
that is, I gotta know, because you were such a
great player, how the hell did you go undrafted out
of text saying them, oh man.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
Like, what did you do? I just I feel like
some I think they think I didn't like white people.
That's what it was.
Speaker 3 (35:23):
That's what it was.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
That's what That's what the word on the street was.
That's what they said. They said that, that's what that's
what they said.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
They said. I was, I was defiant and that white
authority pushed me the wrong way. Really, I love that.
Speaker 6 (35:35):
That's I don't think that's true. I don't think it either,
but I think it's hilarious. I wonder, what's you know
what I mean, like, doesn't that like white authority. I mean,
I have done some things that people might thought that.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
I was like thinking that, but it's like I was,
I just said, like you know, I just I got
a daddy coach, Like I just can't play football like
you know, I do, got a dad I gotta need.
I don't need a white dad too, you know what
I'm saying. I got a black horn like one is
good enough, like you know, So I think, I mean,
I think that was the thing that people thought.
Speaker 4 (36:03):
Decent player out of Texa, A and M. I would think,
like it's normal. I've been in Texan, yeah, so like
I've been there. I just I literally had watched your
whole and I did not know that you were undrafted.
I think like we just kind of skipped over that.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
Yeah. I think a lot of people don't know that.
They kind of when I said that, and I stand
in there lne like wait what, yeah that was me.
Speaker 5 (36:20):
We didn't were doing this. I didn't know that ahead
you know what I'm saying. We didn't know that and
I didn't know you went back to Seattle.
Speaker 1 (36:27):
Yeah yeah that shot.
Speaker 3 (36:29):
I was like wait what yeah?
Speaker 1 (36:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
So when I was a rookie, I made the team
as an undrafted player. I actually beat a third round pick,
Baraka Atkins, he's played for the Miami with Miami and
actually the fourth front pick.
Speaker 1 (36:42):
But then and it was like this other guy named
Nick Reed. Nick Ree was actually a great pastor of
Russia to Oregon.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
I think he had like the record for like it
was like like one of those guys that if you
saw him on the street you would be like, I
don't know how this guy does it. But nick Ree
was like this guy that just looks like a substitute teacher,
not even like the teacher, like the substitute like you
can't pass the test, but you do know what he's doing.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
But that was like Nick Ree. And then we was
like dominating in preseason, Like we were literally killing in preseason.
So basically they.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
Told me that, like, oh, we need to move you
down for one game so we can bring up an
office lineman because we don't have enough office line because
they told me before the season, was like, you're not
gonna play in any games. You're just gonna practice, and
you're just gonna be a team and we're gonna develop
you because we got Patrick Curry and we got Corey Ready,
and we got everybody like you. Maybe towards the end
of the season you might get some playing time, but
(37:31):
your job every day is to come here and make
the officer line better. That's pretty much what they kind
of told me, right And I was just like, Okay,
that sounds good to me.
Speaker 1 (37:37):
I'm on the team, like you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (37:40):
And then like they put me down, and like I
was confused because I didn't actually know what what I
just agreed to, you know what I'm saying, Like, and
then the next day it's like, you know, all these
teams put in this offer for me, and I'm like, yo,
it's like I was supposed to go to. Like at first,
it's so funny. I was telling Cliff, I was supposed
to go to Detroit Lions, but then they actually won
a game, and Tempa Bay had a worse record than them,
So it was like Green Bay, Tampa Bay, like all
(38:01):
these teams in there like it. It was like the Raiders,
and it was like, oh, you have to go to
Tampa Bay because it's the lowest team. So I didn't
know you go to the lowest team if then you
go to multiple ways. Yeah, so multiple teams could put
it in the thing, but they're not gonna get the
best team of best player, right because it doesn't make
sense if a good player comes off and then like
you know, the Chiefs are already winning, they're like, yeah,
let's get this player number one. But if if the
lower team puts in the offer first, then they claim you,
(38:23):
then they get to get to take you.
Speaker 1 (38:24):
Dang. I didn't know that.
Speaker 3 (38:25):
We're gonna take a short break and we'll be right back.
I learned something new, all right.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
This is the other thing that I did not know.
Speaker 3 (38:35):
Mount Rushmore.
Speaker 4 (38:36):
All right, you get four, and so we want to
talk about we want to know your Mount Rushmore of influence,
the people that have come into your life, to whether
it's football after ball, just throughout life that has made
you the man that you are right here in front
of us today.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
That ain't that's crazy.
Speaker 2 (38:54):
I'm gonna take family out of it because I feel
like that's like the easy one. Like obviously, my wife
has had a huge influence on everything I've ever done
in my life since we've been in high school sweethearts.
Even though I always say, take out my dad and
then my brother, like obviously those are people that like,
if I'm just talking about people that are not family members,
(39:14):
I probably say Cliff Averel, Wow, why Cliff, because Cliff
is one of the people that's like it was like
a person that's a brother that kind of like that
you could trust, that can you can reflect on. But
the reflection is you always say he playing the devil's advocate.
I'm like, why are you playing for the devil anyway?
Speaker 1 (39:30):
And play for God?
Speaker 2 (39:32):
But like a friend that that does that doesn't judge,
but that's also pushing you every day to make sure
that you kind of are standing. So you need people
around you that have an impact on you because of
their positivity and they're also who they are as humans
and how they are going through the world. So I
would say he's had a big influence on me. Okay,
if I can say somebody that don't I don't know
(39:53):
has had like an influence on me that works too,
that never met it because.
Speaker 1 (39:57):
Before my time, I'll say Booker T. Washington. Okay, I
like Booker T.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
Washington has had like a lot of influencers just reading
his books and understanding like the history of what he
was experiencing at the time, and like the story of
why you know, imagine walking from Philadelphia to a whole
nother place like that's a crazy shit, right, Like you know,
like or going to a place and starting to school
because you don't the world doesn't have one, and you
(40:21):
decide that I'm going to make a place that every
black intellectual can come to and have a place to
discover and imagine being around George Washington, Carver, every single
body that existed that we know today has some type
of running and being able to have a conversation with
the president in any moment that you wanted to.
Speaker 1 (40:36):
That's kind of crazy, and build a whole world around that.
So I think Booker T. Washington somebody I think about that.
He's a good one.
Speaker 2 (40:43):
I like two more football wise, I'd say somebody that's
had like a big influence on me from a football
perspective is I would say, would be me Bay And
I feel like if I say one person that really
changed the way I looked at the game and made
me just a completely better place football wise, I play
with a lot of great players, like I think, you know,
(41:04):
Cam Chancel, everybody was like great players. But somebody that,
like I think that was like intellectually so far ahead
that I'm like, Yo, why does he know everything that's
happening before it's happening. I would say, Brandon me bang
with somebody I would say football wise, that is kind
of like so I'm just trying to go around like
in a way of putting it in that way. Somebody
that's influencing me is socially as a person to improve
(41:26):
as a human, somebody just thinking about how to think
about the world and designing and thinking about community. Football wise,
I'll say me bang just the career wise, and then
the last one I'll say, I'll say my kids, how
many three? Okay, I'll say they had the big influence
on me because they kind of changed me to think
(41:47):
about life differently. In the whole totality of all three
of them, right, because three of them are three different experiences,
and each one of them had a different impact on
me to change me in a positive way. You know,
whether it's my first daughter, my second daughter, or third daughter,
each one had improved me as a human in every way,
like it could have been like learning how to love better,
(42:08):
learning how to be more you know, a tendive, learning
how to be more nurturing, Like those are things that
I feel like having three daughters have challenged me to
do and also change me as a person, right because
I'm like, if I imagine not having no kids or
something like, yo, probably wouldn't be a.
Speaker 1 (42:23):
Good person, like selfish and be selfish.
Speaker 2 (42:26):
So I feel like that, So I would say that
three and outside of like you know, I'll say, like
obviously my brother, I feel like it's had a bigger
influence on me just in general, because it's like you
gotta to be able to go into life with somebody
who has experienced everything you experienced and like you know
them from the beginning, like like you know, it's like
and so it's like you can you can help each other,
(42:47):
like you know, manage emotions, manage life, kind of talk
about things and just have conversations and be honest.
Speaker 1 (42:53):
I think that's kind of a good thing too.
Speaker 2 (42:55):
So yeah, I feel like I've had a lot of
good influences, but coaches wise, I would say the biggest
influence that I've ever had on it, it was two
coaches really.
Speaker 3 (43:03):
Hold on, hold on, you keep adding to the hold on.
Speaker 1 (43:06):
No, because I feel like you can't know.
Speaker 5 (43:09):
I say, because Martella's made he the fifth on the mountains,
and you just add two more coaches.
Speaker 1 (43:16):
Yeah, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
I say, you gotta you gotta works one.
Speaker 1 (43:22):
Yeah, because it came from one person.
Speaker 3 (43:25):
So I think we're I think I'm cap it and
say whatever.
Speaker 1 (43:31):
Two coaches that you like, they can't know.
Speaker 2 (43:33):
I feel like the two coaches the coaches because I
feel like we don't always talk about the.
Speaker 3 (43:36):
Coaches that I'm giving you a chance throw them out there.
Speaker 1 (43:39):
I'll say.
Speaker 2 (43:40):
Keith Millard, it was a great past rusher with with
the Vikings. You know, he was telling me stories about
when Pete was was just a g a and all
this kind of stuff, and he came to check his
room and he threw like a sandwich at Pete Carroll
like like you know, and Dolman and all those guys
that he played with. He was a great coaching, like
(44:01):
teaching me how to pass rush. And then also dan
Quinn was really good because I think he was like
one of the first people was like, yo, you're gonna
play every position. Like I remember in preseason, I was like,
I looked over it was my first time ever playing
special teams. I feel like I never had to play
special teams until I got to the NFL and I
was looking and I remember my when the coach Richard
told me, well, Michael, I know you never played special teams,
(44:22):
but the only way to get on special team.
Speaker 1 (44:24):
Is to make a lot of plays.
Speaker 2 (44:25):
And he was like, hell, every time I see Richie
always like he took my advice, huh, because it was
like I.
Speaker 1 (44:30):
Went in there. I never I was like, yo, what
is going on on this kickoff team?
Speaker 2 (44:34):
Like it's just a lot of people moving, like because
you know, if you a defensive end and you a
defensive a pass rush, you never really own special team
until you get to the NFL as a rookie and
it's like you like, yo, what is a punt?
Speaker 1 (44:44):
Like you're trying to like you're trying to move your
leg back like.
Speaker 3 (44:47):
You're talking to the wrong person. He don't know about
none of that. It's cool. Yeah, that was cool.
Speaker 1 (44:53):
I got you.
Speaker 3 (44:54):
We were all good. Hey we Yeah you got it.
I got it. He don't I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (45:01):
Yeah, I know you don't do special teams. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (45:04):
I was drafted pretty high, so I skipped that part
of my career.
Speaker 3 (45:08):
Yeah you did.
Speaker 1 (45:08):
Congratulations, you kept a lot more brain cells.
Speaker 2 (45:12):
And it takes me long to realize, like, yo, I
don't need to be out here, like this is all
this is like it was just like it was like
a like a animal zoos, like it's like anything goes
out here, like like this is crazy.
Speaker 1 (45:23):
Listen to game. It's like there's a stop.
Speaker 2 (45:25):
You line up, there's people coming down hunt one two
to only fifty four mic seventy three, and you kind
of like I'm feeling it, but Special Team wants the
balls kicked.
Speaker 1 (45:33):
It's like, yo, chaos, It's chaos.
Speaker 2 (45:36):
I'm glad they changed it too, because like a lot
of I know a lot of guys right now that's
laying at home with broken bags and broken arms, Like yo,
I could have played a lot longer.
Speaker 1 (45:43):
If I have to do that special team remember the Wedge.
Speaker 3 (45:46):
Oh yeah, I wouldn't get I didn't have to worry
about it. I wouldn't worry about the waves.
Speaker 6 (45:50):
Well, we're gonna we're going to continue this, yeah, after
we cut the camera.
Speaker 4 (45:55):
Michael Man, dude, number one, you and Mark Tellers are
so one of the most intelligent men I've got to experience,
and so shout out to your family, your parents for
allowing you, guys to be who you are and so
ultimately don't change.
Speaker 3 (46:10):
I love that about you.
Speaker 4 (46:13):
I've read about you, I've seen you on TV, I've
seen you represent yourselves and played against you many times,
not always being successful, and you know, so shout out
to you for continue to be who you are and
I can't wait to see you're You're The things that
you're creating design wise are absolutely gorgeous than you you know,
and I looked at some of your pieces and it's incredible.
(46:34):
So great job. I didn't know that much about it,
but now I will continue to look up. I'll even
show my wife because she loves pretty much everything that
you're probably doing. So I appreciate that. To that then
my guy, well, I won't say the same thing to y'all.
Speaker 2 (46:45):
Feel like y'all have like influenced us, and like the
way that you guys are caring yourself a man, and
like having this platform. I think a lot of times
a show like the second act is super important because
people get forgotten. It's like it's important to tell people
that there's a second part of your life that you
gotta be focused on and thinking about. So I think
you guys, like I said, like we always had to
watch you and like watching you guys on defense and
(47:07):
watching the way you play. I think it's like, I'm
happy to be in this conversation with you guys. I
think we just don't have that platform, and I think
it's important that you guys are showing us shedding the
light on what's happening to people when they're not in
the league anymore.
Speaker 4 (47:19):
Appreciate that, man, Thank you, no doubt, man, we don't
have to do that with the ending are great, Thank you,
thank you.
Speaker 1 (47:27):
It was just kind of hot.
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