November 17, 2025 • 22 mins
NFL Network Insiders Tom Pelissero and Ian Rapoport are joined by Stacey Dales to recap the Bears beating the Vikings on the road to grab first place in the NFC North along with a look at the Lions losing to the Eagles on Sunday Night Football and the Packers beating the Giants. Tom and Ian wrap up the show with their thoughts on the Broncos taking control of the AFC West with a win against the Chiefs and the Bills, Panthers and Dolphins all grabbing Week 11 wins.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome back to The Insiders. Tom Pellicero, Ian Rappoport, joined
right now by our friends Stacy Dales. If you are
picking this up on the podcast side, it's a two
parter every single Monday. This is part two. It doesn't matter.
You can consume this part first, they go back to
part one. You can do it the other way. We
talk about different stuff, We've got different guests. We got
a really good one right now with us in Stacy
(00:23):
who right now? Stacy, I think even the most optimistic
outlook on the twenty twenty five season, you would not
have thought you'd be sitting here on November seventeenth with
us here on The Insiders talking about a first place
Bears team that right now would be the third seed
in the NFC. That is as hot as anyone. I've
(00:45):
got as much respect for Ben Johnson as anybody. He's
been unbelievable. But seven and three with this group, this
is pretty wild. And they found another way once again
late in the game to pull out a win yesterday
in Minnesota.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Yeah, I would say, hey, many in the Black and
Blue Division is fascinating because things have done a whole
one to eighty. I think that right now the Detroit
Lions are third in the division, and then you've got
obviously the Packers and the Bears. And I do live
in the Chicago area, and coaching matters. Ben Johnson is
(01:20):
something else. He has something else. He's got these guys disciplined.
I was texting with a friend watching this game who's
covered this team for years. Yesterday and against the Vikings,
so we got to see all these teams in the
division yesterday and win in different capacities outside of the
Vikings and Allions. But like, this is the best football
the Bears have played in at least a decade plus.
(01:43):
Like they're efficient. I know they didn't put up big
scoring numbers with Calebin Company, but they had the ball
for almost thirty seven minutes in that football game on
the road. That is extremely efficient. They didn't turn it
over and they ran the ball significantly, and DeAndre Swift
had his most carries twenty one carries. I believe it
(02:03):
was for ninety And I just thought that they found
a way to win on the road. And you can
say their schedule is easy, but you guys know this,
Winning the NFL is friggin hard. And if you can
do it and that's on your schedule, and you win,
you got a shot at the end. That's all these
teams are playing for a shot to get into the playoffs,
and once you do, you just don't know what's going
(02:24):
to happen. And the Bears are getting it.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
Done, Patriots are dealing with the same easy schedule nonsense,
and I'm like, yeah, I get it, but it's also like,
what does this mean?
Speaker 1 (02:34):
It's all even other than like two games that are
set from the previous year the same.
Speaker 4 (02:39):
But I mean that's like in Newing.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
I know we're not talking about this, but in New
England that's like a legit, and major conversations like how
easy the Patriots schedule is, and it's like, yeah, cool,
there's only thirty two of them. There's only a couple
that are really bad. Everyone else is kind of like
around the same ballpark. I don't know, it's all pretty stupid.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
But that's what I would say, all right, to the
extent of, like, you know, they haven't beaten anyone who
right now? Would you say is like the elite team?
Who is it that we're waiting for people to play?
Speaker 3 (03:04):
Everybody's gott I was pretty sure the Lions were an
elite team, and I still think they're very good.
Speaker 4 (03:10):
They would not be in the playoffs right now.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
They would not be played. The Chiefs would not be
in the playoffs, The Ravens would not be in the playoffs.
The Texans would not be in the playoffs. All these teams,
I believe all four of those teams were in the
Final eight last year. None of those teams right now
it would be in the playoffs. And Stacey, you mentioned
the Lions in there. That was a battle it felt.
I was at the Monday night game in Green Bay
(03:33):
against that same Eagles defense, which they are playing unbelievable
right now, but it kind of had that same feel,
which was the way that the Eagles are able to
manipulate things, press the interior of the pocket. It had
the same impact on Jared Goff yesterday that we saw
I'd have on Jordan Love. I don't think that that's
(03:54):
a you know, a flaw for the Lions. Certainly, losing
Frank rag Now in the summer after the point at
which they could replace him is a pretty big deal.
But the Lions are still one of those teams where
I don't have much concern regardless what the standings say
whether or not they're going to be somebody you don't
want to face, assuming that they get in come January.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
I'm a huge believer in the Detroit Lions, and I
think things have been rattled a little bit with the
play calling change obviously, you know, from Johnny Mo to
Dan Campbell. I mean that's real. When you're in like
week ten of the NFL season and you're changing play callers,
that's an adjustment for everybody.
Speaker 4 (04:25):
It just is.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
But it goes back to TP what you said about
the Eagles. Their defense is really really special and it's
getting better. And I don't even believe they think they've
played their best football defensively yet and back to back games,
I think they're giving up like eight points a game
over their last two defensively. It's insane what Vic is doing.
(04:47):
And you watch him in that game last night, sitting
in the press in his little booth, in his little lab,
and know he's got his pencil, you guys know Vic, right,
He's just he's got his little like you know, z
elementary school pencil and he's just he's just he's got.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
All these things on like its tendencies, that's what he
goes off of it's all these different things, and so
that's how his brain works, is he's looking at the
tendencies and now it's applying to the game.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
I could just get a camera and watch him the
entire game, because he's just he's just one of a kind.
He's one of a kind. But he's got these young
bucks up front, the Cooper dejen has that you know,
big pick and you know, in their best runs, I
mean they've they've had like success with their defensive backs
capitalizing on turnovers. But the fact of the matter is
(05:34):
Jared Goff had his worst game in a very long time.
He had a thirty eight percent completion percentage. He couldn't
even get the ball out of the pocket. It was tipped,
or it was affected or he was affected. There was
zero rhythm. They were zero for five on fourth down,
which is very atypical for Dan Campbell's football teams. True
bad in every aspect. On first down, they were horrific.
(05:56):
So they played behind the sticks the majority of the game.
That's all the Eagles did defensively. I know Gibbs had
a nice game from scrimmage, but you know, am and
Ross Saint Brown has to be involved, and if he's
not involved, that's a problem. And if the quarterback can't
get him the ball, that's a problem. So yeah, they'll
have some corrections to make, which I fully believe they
will because Dan Campbell's really good at that.
Speaker 4 (06:18):
You know, there's two things that jumped to my mind.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
One is like, you know, you look around the league
and you see some of the teams that change defensive
coordinators based on mostly personality. You have the Dolphins who
moved on from Vic Fanju after a year because things weren't.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Went along with Jalen Ramsey. They traded a.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
Year later, right, and it's like, all right, maybe you
should have made that work. He's very good. You have
the Giants moving on from Wink Martindale because him and
day Ball kept going at it and they couldn't make
that work. Turns out he's very good and defensive coordinator
was basically the problem that you know, helped day Ball
get fired. And it's like, at some point you sort
(06:57):
of feel like these you should be able to make
these things work for the better of the team. That's
one of the things I was talking about. I was
thinking about. The other thing was I wonder, you know,
You're right. The Eagles are so good interior up front,
they are real. I mean, golf couldn't look look like
you couldn't see anything, couldn't throw without getting a pass
batted down. If it wasn't batted down, there was pressure
(07:19):
up the middle, so you never felt confident to kind
of step up into the pocket. And I wonder if
we're going to see that tonight with Dallas because they
added Quinn Williams. You know, they've done everything they can
to beef up and pay the middle of their defense,
and like, that's what it's supposed to look like. And
I just wonder if their thought is like the edge
(07:41):
of it look better, the quarterback would be uncomfortable. We
can push from the middle anyway. We'll find out, but
that's what it's supposed to be.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
Additionally, the other thing too with the Lions, we talked about, Yeah,
the inside and the way that they could affect the pocket.
They got all those first round picks, but also again
losing Frank right now in the off season, then they
lose Christian Mahogany the left guard. They don't have Sam Laporta.
What I saw last night, and I am not the
authority on ex's no's but a lion's team that we
saw so often over these last several years where they've
(08:09):
been an FC to contender, winning from the inside out.
Everything had to be played from the outside in because
they just weren't moving people upfront the same way that
they have in the past. I'm on Ross Saint Brown
does a lot of his work on the inside as well.
All of a sudden, it was we got to get
the ball to the perimeter, Jamison Williams, we got to
go outside to Jamiir Gibbs. It seems to have this
trickle down effect and they're going to have to They
(08:30):
got to find some answers for that. You know, the Packers'
offense found some answers yesterday, Stacy, as much as and listen,
you can quibble about all man, it.
Speaker 4 (08:38):
Was we learned that over the last two that was
the whole discussion.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
People were asking if Man Lafleur was going to get
fired after the Monday night game, and it turns out
he's still one of the best coaches in the NFL.
But you know, listen, I understand Stacy, where some people go, well,
it took that long to be the third string quarterback
and John Seemlay's injuries. It's like backers just needed to win.
They had to find a way. And when there came
time to close out the game, Stacy Michael Parsons did
what you pay him all that money to do, which
(09:05):
is close out that game.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Well, close out that game with closing speed. Yeah, he's unreal.
I mean, the quarterback pressures between he and Aiden Hutchinson
within this division right now are insane. The Packers are
so interesting because, like I've always said this, and you
guys know this, they take for granted winning in Green Bay,
(09:28):
like to know, and they're so spoiled in Green Bay
because you know, a road win is a challenge in itself.
But like I feel, you know, your quarterback gets injured
in the first in the first half of that game,
so Malik Willis comes in, he throws a touchdown.
Speaker 4 (09:45):
So they had four little times that was awesome.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
It was awesome. And I think, you know, one of
the gifts that Matt Lafour has is he's very adaptable
to his quarterbacks. We'll have to see about Josh Jacobs obviously.
That's you know, it doesn't seem like a long time concern,
but to not see him finish the game was a problem,
but Wilson steps in and does a pretty good job,
and Jordan Love was able to, you know, ultimately get
(10:10):
the job done with a pretty good passer rating and efficiency.
But I can't get over the Tucker Craft injury. I'm sorry,
I just it sucks majorly. And by the way, you know,
Taylor Decker's been hurt too all season long in Detroit.
Like it's this like how all these things are going
(10:32):
to play out in the long term is going to
be really fascinating. And if, if, if, if the Dallas
Cowboys don't get pressure up the middle ian against the Raiders,
then that's gonna be a problem. To just say that tonight.
But listen, this division is Minnesota is interesting with the
(10:53):
injury to their quarterback that affected their sort of evolution
this season and him being in the first real year.
So I don't know, but shoot the Bears. The Bears
keep climbing and finding ways to win and getting turnovers.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
The best credit to Ben Johnson this season is they
are so good in the clutch, and I know that
that people will say that's like a fake step, but situationally,
lading games, they're not dominating anyone. Realistically, Bears probably will
have all kinds of work to do on the roster
in this offseason because they're not just better than everybody
on paper, but the way that Ben Johnson is adapting
(11:29):
to his personnel and get things in place for what
these guys can do and then making them believe. The
hardest thing when you're walking into a building is eradicating
all the losing that's come before and going we are
going to execute in these moments. We are going to
win these games. I just I can't say enough. You know,
the one thing, you know, the one knock that people
(11:50):
had who didn't know anything on Ben Johnson coming into
this was well, he's just sits in the dark scheming
up plays. Does he have leadership or all? This su is
what everybody thinks you're watching. You're watching it every single
week and he's doing a phenomenal job. We'll see if
they can continue to carry it over. Stacy, Thank you
very much. We will look forward to chatting with you
again soon on The Insiders. Sounds good, have a good
(12:13):
one or from the Insiders after this. One of the
most interesting teams in the NFL this season has to
(12:36):
be the Denver Broncos. I don't know when you're seeing
everybody who's making Super Bowl predictions. Listen, we don't play
the prognostication game here on the Insiders, But you don't
see anybody going, boy, Denver's Denver's the team to be Boy,
you don't want to see the Broncos. It's all kind
of like their offense isn't very good. Are they gona
be able to sustain it? His bo Nick's taking a
(12:58):
step forward what they showed yesterday in beating the Chiefs, so,
by the way, for the first time in a long time,
their streak of AFC West titles is legitimately in doubt.
Nine in a row. They're now three and a half
games back, four games in the win column of the
Broncos headed to their by at nine and two. I
don't know Ian where the offense goes from here with Denver?
(13:21):
Do they actually make those strides forward coming off the
buy They just lost JK. Dobbins, as we reported, maybe
back for the Super Bowl, but effectively done for the season.
As long as Vance Joseph and that defense keep playing
like this, I don't want to see them in January,
particularly a mile high.
Speaker 4 (13:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
I also would like to know how good the Broncos are,
which seems so insulting, and I don't really mean it
like that, but it's just like when you have a
team that is defense dominant and you have an offensive
head coach and a young quarterback and the play has
been really up and down except when it absolutely matters
most like, it's hard to figure out. And I think
(14:02):
aesthetically it's hard to know like how actually good they
are because you're watching it it looks a little bit ugly,
and I think that's just what happens with defensive teams, right,
And so I don't know, they keep winning, and it's
like the Bears. I mean, the Bears have had several
you know, clutch, last second wins, but it hasn't been
the prettiest of all time. There's been a lot up
(14:23):
in the air, and it's just in the end, all
you really want to do is just win while you
figure it out, and like, you get to this point
in the year and eventually you figure it out. And
so like, I don't know how actually good the Broncos are,
But because they've won all these games, they're going to
have a better seed than probably the Chiefs and probably
most of the other teams, so like they'll be in
(14:43):
position to win. I just you know, bo Nix has
been pretty inconsistent, and then when he's got to have
it has been great.
Speaker 4 (14:54):
And that's just like that's all hard to figure out
for me.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
You know, there are some confounding teams in the NFL. This,
I mean the Broncos I kind of put on that
list because again, you watch them and you're never like, boy,
they are just dominating. I mean, you know, they had
to roar back from down eighteen points in the fourth
quarter to beat the Giants a few weeks ago. Another
team on that list is the Panthers because you don't know,
(15:16):
you know, one week they're shutting out the Falcons, they
go into Lambo and they get a win, and they
come home and they look terrible, and then they go
to Atlanta and complete a sweep of the Falcons and
Bryce Young sets the franchise record for single game passing yards.
I give them credit. I mean, they've they're finding kind
of what the identity is, but even that changes from
week to week. They're not a team who should be
(15:38):
throwing for four hundred plus yards in a game. They
should be running the crap out of the ball right
at you. But if you can win both ways, you
have a chance in this league. And right now they're
half game back of the Bucks in the NFC South,
which has not really been a competitive division in recent years,
and just on paper, based on the record, it is
right now.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
Yeah, I mean, Panthers are one of those teams that
you thought this year, all right, they if things go well,
they're gonna look like an improved team.
Speaker 4 (16:03):
They're gonna better on the offensive defensive lines for sure.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
They for sure have run the ball well, protect Bryce Young,
and maybe he can make some plays when he's needed
to and when they've won. That is absolutely exactly what
has happened. And like you know, trying to get owner
Dave Temper and all the people in charge that have
patients and step back and be like, all right, things
(16:27):
take a while to build. Offensive defensive line, take a
while to build quarterbacks, take a while to figure it out.
Especially you know, Bryce Young. I think a lot of
people thought like, oh, he's NFL ready. He was not
NFL ready.
Speaker 4 (16:38):
He was just not. Most of them are not, and
he for sure was not.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
Now in season three, he looks like someone who's really
figuring it out, and he's made some big throws and
t Mac their first round receiver who I was tweeting
about it earlier today got murdered in the pre draft process.
Everyone knew he hated football and couldn't figure it out. Instead,
he likes football and figure all of it out. Also,
a lot of teams wanted to trade him into the
(17:03):
top ten to go get him, not just the Panthers
who actually took him.
Speaker 4 (17:07):
This is what building as an organization looks like. I
think it's really cool.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
And for those in Carolina have suffered through a really
horrific stretch, I feel like they deserve it and I'm
kind of happy that it's happened that way, I have
to say.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
So.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
Now if you look forward here in the division again,
they're half game back of the Bucks. Panther schedule is
challenging down the stretch Tampa, which has overcome so much
to this point. If you're talking about the injuries are receiver,
the injuries are running back, the injuries at the offensive one,
basically everybody else. If you're not Baker Mayfield, you've been
hurt on the Although he's been heart too, he's also
(17:45):
he's been banged up. He just hasn't missed time, but yes,
he was on the injury report with like four different
body parts so far this season. You know, yesterday they
run into a Bills team that it's one of those
classic games where you don't want to face the team
that just got embarrassed because that might be the shock
to the system that the Bills needed. You know, they
came out offensively. Todd Bowles said it like when you
(18:05):
score what do they score thirty two points yesterday? You
should win? Well, clearly, not when you give up forty four.
It was it was definitely a get right type of
a performance for the Bills and for the Bucks. You know,
you saw kind of where you know, some of those
things have popped up that have gotten in the playoffs
in years past, which is when you need a stop,
you got to be able to get a stop. The
(18:25):
offense was doing everything they could. The defense just didn't
have it.
Speaker 4 (18:29):
Yeah, I think for well, first, for the Bucks.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
I got a text from the Bucks building earlier today
and it was very simple, Josh Allen is really good
and I was like, I think that's it. Like, look,
the Bucks have had some struggles recently. They've also been injured.
Sounds like maybe they get Godwin and Bucky Irvin back
this week, could actually get both back, which will help.
But like I think this is really just the Bills
(18:52):
are good, and I don't know what it really says
about the Bucks except the Bills are a little bit better.
Here's the other thing. When Joe Brady and Josh Allen
and I don't know who's exactly making this decision, but
when they decide to unleaseh Josh Allen and just let
him run a little bit, he goes from really good
quarterback to like maybe the best quarterback in the NFL.
(19:15):
And that's what's interesting to me, is like they decided, like,
screw it, let's just put the ball in Josh Allen's
hands and let him do his thing. And if this
is what it's going to be and he can stay
healthy for the next month and a half, like they're
going to look like a the awesome team that they
probably should be. This was you know, there had been
some mild panic in Buffalo for a couple of different reasons.
(19:35):
This was definitely one where I think they're probably all
feeling a little bit better well.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
And this was a game where James Cook really didn't
get rolling, so they had to find some way to
run the football. That being Josh, you know, whether it's
scrambling or certain design runs, he was able to generate
some of that. I just look at what they're you know,
keV going on at the other skill spots right now.
They didn't have Dalton Kincaid, who's a top five receiving
tight end in the NFL. They don't have Keyon Cole
(20:00):
because he doesn't show up for a meeting on Friday.
They got Gabe Davis who hasn't played a game in
it like a year. They're just kind of finding it.
I do have faith in the coaching staff there, and
of course in Josh Allen that like they're one of
those teams you think when you get to January, they're
going to figure it out. Now, do they figure it
out at such a level that they are making the
(20:21):
Super Bowl run that we've all been waiting for. We'll
find out. But you know, that performance in Miami last week,
it's part of a long history of Bill's teams going
back decades who go down to Miami and it's hot
and they just kind of melt and Josh played bad.
That fumble he had at midfield where you're just like
even he looked like, yes, this is just going to be,
you know, one of those types of days. This offense
(20:42):
is still really dangerous. It starts with the ragning NFL MVP,
and that's going to give him a chance every single week.
Speaking of the Dolphins, they won again. They've won three
out of four. That was a game seven one of them.
If I'm not mistaken. On the other side of the bye,
they've got the Saints and then the Jail. So realistically,
I'm not giving anybody a win. I'm not making predictions,
(21:04):
but they could be six and seven and like right
there in the playoff chase, which when you think, yeah, yeah,
when you think that, you know, this goes to show
how little I think people understand the times where it's
like after two games it was Mike McDaniel should get fired.
They lose on Thursday, just fire him. It's like, no, like,
watch Mike McDaniel. Just watch how he interacts. Look at
(21:25):
all the players when they had that muffed punt at
the end of the game. Just look at like how
fired up the sideline gets. And by the way, they're
in Madrid finishing off what was a very fun International Slay.
Speaker 3 (21:37):
It was the only thing I really care about for
the International Slate is how awesome it looks on TV.
And that was another game where it just looked awesome.
Speaker 4 (21:46):
So that was a win.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
Those stadiums look ridiculously incredible and I love it.
Speaker 4 (21:52):
Just real quick.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
On the Dolphins, what Dolphins brass wanted to see on
Mike McDaniel was did this team keep playing for him?
And if they did, then basically he could keep his
job and try it again next year. That seems to
be a resounding yes, which is good for the Dolphins.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
We're back everywhere throughout the course of this week, including
Tomorrow night, every Tuesday, Wednesday, and Friday, NFL Network at
seven pm Eastern Time. You can also catch us five
days a week on the podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Mondays,
the show is on the Fast Channel, the NFL channel
on fast streaming platforms after Monday Night Football Thursdays it's
(22:29):
on the Fast Channel as well. We're on YouTube. We're
really everywhere, for better or worse. For Ian, I'm Tom.
We'll see you next
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Time, all right,
Welcome back to The Insiders. Tom Pellicero, Ian Rappoport, joined
right now by our friends Stacy Dales. If you are
picking this up on the podcast side, it's a two
parter every single Monday. This is part two. It doesn't matter.
You can consume this part first, they go back to
part one. You can do it the other way. We
talk about different stuff, We've got different guests. We got
a really good one right now with us in Stacy
(00:23):
who right now? Stacy, I think even the most optimistic
outlook on the twenty twenty five season, you would not
have thought you'd be sitting here on November seventeenth with
us here on The Insiders talking about a first place
Bears team that right now would be the third seed
in the NFC. That is as hot as anyone. I've
(00:45):
got as much respect for Ben Johnson as anybody. He's
been unbelievable. But seven and three with this group, this
is pretty wild. And they found another way once again
late in the game to pull out a win yesterday
in Minnesota.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Yeah, I would say, hey, many in the Black and
Blue Division is fascinating because things have done a whole
one to eighty. I think that right now the Detroit
Lions are third in the division, and then you've got
obviously the Packers and the Bears. And I do live
in the Chicago area, and coaching matters. Ben Johnson is
(01:20):
something else. He has something else. He's got these guys disciplined.
I was texting with a friend watching this game who's
covered this team for years. Yesterday and against the Vikings,
so we got to see all these teams in the
division yesterday and win in different capacities outside of the
Vikings and Allions. But like, this is the best football
the Bears have played in at least a decade plus.
(01:43):
Like they're efficient. I know they didn't put up big
scoring numbers with Calebin Company, but they had the ball
for almost thirty seven minutes in that football game on
the road. That is extremely efficient. They didn't turn it
over and they ran the ball significantly, and DeAndre Swift
had his most carries twenty one carries. I believe it
(02:03):
was for ninety And I just thought that they found
a way to win on the road. And you can
say their schedule is easy, but you guys know this,
Winning the NFL is friggin hard. And if you can
do it and that's on your schedule, and you win,
you got a shot at the end. That's all these
teams are playing for a shot to get into the playoffs,
and once you do, you just don't know what's going
(02:24):
to happen. And the Bears are getting it.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
Done, Patriots are dealing with the same easy schedule nonsense,
and I'm like, yeah, I get it, but it's also like,
what does this mean?
Speaker 1 (02:34):
It's all even other than like two games that are
set from the previous year the same.
Speaker 4 (02:39):
But I mean that's like in Newing.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
I know we're not talking about this, but in New
England that's like a legit, and major conversations like how
easy the Patriots schedule is, and it's like, yeah, cool,
there's only thirty two of them. There's only a couple
that are really bad. Everyone else is kind of like
around the same ballpark. I don't know, it's all pretty stupid.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
But that's what I would say, all right, to the
extent of, like, you know, they haven't beaten anyone who
right now? Would you say is like the elite team?
Who is it that we're waiting for people to play?
Speaker 3 (03:04):
Everybody's gott I was pretty sure the Lions were an
elite team, and I still think they're very good.
Speaker 4 (03:10):
They would not be in the playoffs right now.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
They would not be played. The Chiefs would not be
in the playoffs, The Ravens would not be in the playoffs.
The Texans would not be in the playoffs. All these teams,
I believe all four of those teams were in the
Final eight last year. None of those teams right now
it would be in the playoffs. And Stacey, you mentioned
the Lions in there. That was a battle it felt.
I was at the Monday night game in Green Bay
(03:33):
against that same Eagles defense, which they are playing unbelievable
right now, but it kind of had that same feel,
which was the way that the Eagles are able to
manipulate things, press the interior of the pocket. It had
the same impact on Jared Goff yesterday that we saw
I'd have on Jordan Love. I don't think that that's
(03:54):
a you know, a flaw for the Lions. Certainly, losing
Frank rag Now in the summer after the point at
which they could replace him is a pretty big deal.
But the Lions are still one of those teams where
I don't have much concern regardless what the standings say
whether or not they're going to be somebody you don't
want to face, assuming that they get in come January.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
I'm a huge believer in the Detroit Lions, and I
think things have been rattled a little bit with the
play calling change obviously, you know, from Johnny Mo to
Dan Campbell. I mean that's real. When you're in like
week ten of the NFL season and you're changing play callers,
that's an adjustment for everybody.
Speaker 4 (04:25):
It just is.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
But it goes back to TP what you said about
the Eagles. Their defense is really really special and it's
getting better. And I don't even believe they think they've
played their best football defensively yet and back to back games,
I think they're giving up like eight points a game
over their last two defensively. It's insane what Vic is doing.
(04:47):
And you watch him in that game last night, sitting
in the press in his little booth, in his little lab,
and know he's got his pencil, you guys know Vic, right,
He's just he's got his little like you know, z
elementary school pencil and he's just he's just he's got.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
All these things on like its tendencies, that's what he
goes off of it's all these different things, and so
that's how his brain works, is he's looking at the
tendencies and now it's applying to the game.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
I could just get a camera and watch him the
entire game, because he's just he's just one of a kind.
He's one of a kind. But he's got these young
bucks up front, the Cooper dejen has that you know,
big pick and you know, in their best runs, I
mean they've they've had like success with their defensive backs
capitalizing on turnovers. But the fact of the matter is
(05:34):
Jared Goff had his worst game in a very long time.
He had a thirty eight percent completion percentage. He couldn't
even get the ball out of the pocket. It was tipped,
or it was affected or he was affected. There was
zero rhythm. They were zero for five on fourth down,
which is very atypical for Dan Campbell's football teams. True
bad in every aspect. On first down, they were horrific.
(05:56):
So they played behind the sticks the majority of the game.
That's all the Eagles did defensively. I know Gibbs had
a nice game from scrimmage, but you know, am and
Ross Saint Brown has to be involved, and if he's
not involved, that's a problem. And if the quarterback can't
get him the ball, that's a problem. So yeah, they'll
have some corrections to make, which I fully believe they
will because Dan Campbell's really good at that.
Speaker 4 (06:18):
You know, there's two things that jumped to my mind.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
One is like, you know, you look around the league
and you see some of the teams that change defensive
coordinators based on mostly personality. You have the Dolphins who
moved on from Vic Fanju after a year because things weren't.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Went along with Jalen Ramsey. They traded a.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
Year later, right, and it's like, all right, maybe you
should have made that work. He's very good. You have
the Giants moving on from Wink Martindale because him and
day Ball kept going at it and they couldn't make
that work. Turns out he's very good and defensive coordinator
was basically the problem that you know, helped day Ball
get fired. And it's like, at some point you sort
(06:57):
of feel like these you should be able to make
these things work for the better of the team. That's
one of the things I was talking about. I was
thinking about. The other thing was I wonder, you know,
You're right. The Eagles are so good interior up front,
they are real. I mean, golf couldn't look look like
you couldn't see anything, couldn't throw without getting a pass
batted down. If it wasn't batted down, there was pressure
(07:19):
up the middle, so you never felt confident to kind
of step up into the pocket. And I wonder if
we're going to see that tonight with Dallas because they
added Quinn Williams. You know, they've done everything they can
to beef up and pay the middle of their defense,
and like, that's what it's supposed to look like. And
I just wonder if their thought is like the edge
(07:41):
of it look better, the quarterback would be uncomfortable. We
can push from the middle anyway. We'll find out, but
that's what it's supposed to be.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
Additionally, the other thing too with the Lions, we talked about, Yeah,
the inside and the way that they could affect the pocket.
They got all those first round picks, but also again
losing Frank right now in the off season, then they
lose Christian Mahogany the left guard. They don't have Sam Laporta.
What I saw last night, and I am not the
authority on ex's no's but a lion's team that we
saw so often over these last several years where they've
(08:09):
been an FC to contender, winning from the inside out.
Everything had to be played from the outside in because
they just weren't moving people upfront the same way that
they have in the past. I'm on Ross Saint Brown
does a lot of his work on the inside as well.
All of a sudden, it was we got to get
the ball to the perimeter, Jamison Williams, we got to
go outside to Jamiir Gibbs. It seems to have this
trickle down effect and they're going to have to They
(08:30):
got to find some answers for that. You know, the Packers'
offense found some answers yesterday, Stacy, as much as and listen,
you can quibble about all man, it.
Speaker 4 (08:38):
Was we learned that over the last two that was
the whole discussion.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
People were asking if Man Lafleur was going to get
fired after the Monday night game, and it turns out
he's still one of the best coaches in the NFL.
But you know, listen, I understand Stacy, where some people go, well,
it took that long to be the third string quarterback
and John Seemlay's injuries. It's like backers just needed to win.
They had to find a way. And when there came
time to close out the game, Stacy Michael Parsons did
what you pay him all that money to do, which
(09:05):
is close out that game.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Well, close out that game with closing speed. Yeah, he's unreal.
I mean, the quarterback pressures between he and Aiden Hutchinson
within this division right now are insane. The Packers are
so interesting because, like I've always said this, and you
guys know this, they take for granted winning in Green Bay,
(09:28):
like to know, and they're so spoiled in Green Bay
because you know, a road win is a challenge in itself.
But like I feel, you know, your quarterback gets injured
in the first in the first half of that game,
so Malik Willis comes in, he throws a touchdown.
Speaker 4 (09:45):
So they had four little times that was awesome.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
It was awesome. And I think, you know, one of
the gifts that Matt Lafour has is he's very adaptable
to his quarterbacks. We'll have to see about Josh Jacobs obviously.
That's you know, it doesn't seem like a long time concern,
but to not see him finish the game was a problem,
but Wilson steps in and does a pretty good job,
and Jordan Love was able to, you know, ultimately get
(10:10):
the job done with a pretty good passer rating and efficiency.
But I can't get over the Tucker Craft injury. I'm sorry,
I just it sucks majorly. And by the way, you know,
Taylor Decker's been hurt too all season long in Detroit.
Like it's this like how all these things are going
(10:32):
to play out in the long term is going to
be really fascinating. And if, if, if, if the Dallas
Cowboys don't get pressure up the middle ian against the Raiders,
then that's gonna be a problem. To just say that tonight.
But listen, this division is Minnesota is interesting with the
(10:53):
injury to their quarterback that affected their sort of evolution
this season and him being in the first real year.
So I don't know, but shoot the Bears. The Bears
keep climbing and finding ways to win and getting turnovers.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
The best credit to Ben Johnson this season is they
are so good in the clutch, and I know that
that people will say that's like a fake step, but situationally,
lading games, they're not dominating anyone. Realistically, Bears probably will
have all kinds of work to do on the roster
in this offseason because they're not just better than everybody
on paper, but the way that Ben Johnson is adapting
(11:29):
to his personnel and get things in place for what
these guys can do and then making them believe. The
hardest thing when you're walking into a building is eradicating
all the losing that's come before and going we are
going to execute in these moments. We are going to
win these games. I just I can't say enough. You know,
the one thing, you know, the one knock that people
(11:50):
had who didn't know anything on Ben Johnson coming into
this was well, he's just sits in the dark scheming
up plays. Does he have leadership or all? This su is
what everybody thinks you're watching. You're watching it every single
week and he's doing a phenomenal job. We'll see if
they can continue to carry it over. Stacy, Thank you
very much. We will look forward to chatting with you
again soon on The Insiders. Sounds good, have a good
(12:13):
one or from the Insiders after this. One of the
most interesting teams in the NFL this season has to
(12:36):
be the Denver Broncos. I don't know when you're seeing
everybody who's making Super Bowl predictions. Listen, we don't play
the prognostication game here on the Insiders, But you don't
see anybody going, boy, Denver's Denver's the team to be Boy,
you don't want to see the Broncos. It's all kind
of like their offense isn't very good. Are they gona
be able to sustain it? His bo Nick's taking a
(12:58):
step forward what they showed yesterday in beating the Chiefs, so,
by the way, for the first time in a long time,
their streak of AFC West titles is legitimately in doubt.
Nine in a row. They're now three and a half
games back, four games in the win column of the
Broncos headed to their by at nine and two. I
don't know Ian where the offense goes from here with Denver?
(13:21):
Do they actually make those strides forward coming off the
buy They just lost JK. Dobbins, as we reported, maybe
back for the Super Bowl, but effectively done for the season.
As long as Vance Joseph and that defense keep playing
like this, I don't want to see them in January,
particularly a mile high.
Speaker 4 (13:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
I also would like to know how good the Broncos are,
which seems so insulting, and I don't really mean it
like that, but it's just like when you have a
team that is defense dominant and you have an offensive
head coach and a young quarterback and the play has
been really up and down except when it absolutely matters
most like, it's hard to figure out. And I think
(14:02):
aesthetically it's hard to know like how actually good they
are because you're watching it it looks a little bit ugly,
and I think that's just what happens with defensive teams, right,
And so I don't know, they keep winning, and it's
like the Bears. I mean, the Bears have had several
you know, clutch, last second wins, but it hasn't been
the prettiest of all time. There's been a lot up
(14:23):
in the air, and it's just in the end, all
you really want to do is just win while you
figure it out, and like, you get to this point
in the year and eventually you figure it out. And
so like, I don't know how actually good the Broncos are,
But because they've won all these games, they're going to
have a better seed than probably the Chiefs and probably
most of the other teams, so like they'll be in
(14:43):
position to win. I just you know, bo Nix has
been pretty inconsistent, and then when he's got to have
it has been great.
Speaker 4 (14:54):
And that's just like that's all hard to figure out
for me.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
You know, there are some confounding teams in the NFL. This,
I mean the Broncos I kind of put on that
list because again, you watch them and you're never like, boy,
they are just dominating. I mean, you know, they had
to roar back from down eighteen points in the fourth
quarter to beat the Giants a few weeks ago. Another
team on that list is the Panthers because you don't know,
(15:16):
you know, one week they're shutting out the Falcons, they
go into Lambo and they get a win, and they
come home and they look terrible, and then they go
to Atlanta and complete a sweep of the Falcons and
Bryce Young sets the franchise record for single game passing yards.
I give them credit. I mean, they've they're finding kind
of what the identity is, but even that changes from
week to week. They're not a team who should be
(15:38):
throwing for four hundred plus yards in a game. They
should be running the crap out of the ball right
at you. But if you can win both ways, you
have a chance in this league. And right now they're
half game back of the Bucks in the NFC South,
which has not really been a competitive division in recent years,
and just on paper, based on the record, it is
right now.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
Yeah, I mean, Panthers are one of those teams that
you thought this year, all right, they if things go well,
they're gonna look like an improved team.
Speaker 4 (16:03):
They're gonna better on the offensive defensive lines for sure.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
They for sure have run the ball well, protect Bryce Young,
and maybe he can make some plays when he's needed
to and when they've won. That is absolutely exactly what
has happened. And like you know, trying to get owner
Dave Temper and all the people in charge that have
patients and step back and be like, all right, things
(16:27):
take a while to build. Offensive defensive line, take a
while to build quarterbacks, take a while to figure it out.
Especially you know, Bryce Young. I think a lot of
people thought like, oh, he's NFL ready. He was not
NFL ready.
Speaker 4 (16:38):
He was just not. Most of them are not, and
he for sure was not.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
Now in season three, he looks like someone who's really
figuring it out, and he's made some big throws and
t Mac their first round receiver who I was tweeting
about it earlier today got murdered in the pre draft process.
Everyone knew he hated football and couldn't figure it out. Instead,
he likes football and figure all of it out. Also,
a lot of teams wanted to trade him into the
(17:03):
top ten to go get him, not just the Panthers
who actually took him.
Speaker 4 (17:07):
This is what building as an organization looks like. I
think it's really cool.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
And for those in Carolina have suffered through a really
horrific stretch, I feel like they deserve it and I'm
kind of happy that it's happened that way, I have
to say.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
So.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
Now if you look forward here in the division again,
they're half game back of the Bucks. Panther schedule is
challenging down the stretch Tampa, which has overcome so much
to this point. If you're talking about the injuries are receiver,
the injuries are running back, the injuries at the offensive one,
basically everybody else. If you're not Baker Mayfield, you've been
hurt on the Although he's been heart too, he's also
(17:45):
he's been banged up. He just hasn't missed time, but yes,
he was on the injury report with like four different
body parts so far this season. You know, yesterday they
run into a Bills team that it's one of those
classic games where you don't want to face the team
that just got embarrassed because that might be the shock
to the system that the Bills needed. You know, they
came out offensively. Todd Bowles said it like when you
(18:05):
score what do they score thirty two points yesterday? You
should win? Well, clearly, not when you give up forty four.
It was it was definitely a get right type of
a performance for the Bills and for the Bucks. You know,
you saw kind of where you know, some of those
things have popped up that have gotten in the playoffs
in years past, which is when you need a stop,
you got to be able to get a stop. The
(18:25):
offense was doing everything they could. The defense just didn't
have it.
Speaker 4 (18:29):
Yeah, I think for well, first, for the Bucks.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
I got a text from the Bucks building earlier today
and it was very simple, Josh Allen is really good
and I was like, I think that's it. Like, look,
the Bucks have had some struggles recently. They've also been injured.
Sounds like maybe they get Godwin and Bucky Irvin back
this week, could actually get both back, which will help.
But like I think this is really just the Bills
(18:52):
are good, and I don't know what it really says
about the Bucks except the Bills are a little bit better.
Here's the other thing. When Joe Brady and Josh Allen
and I don't know who's exactly making this decision, but
when they decide to unleaseh Josh Allen and just let
him run a little bit, he goes from really good
quarterback to like maybe the best quarterback in the NFL.
(19:15):
And that's what's interesting to me, is like they decided, like,
screw it, let's just put the ball in Josh Allen's
hands and let him do his thing. And if this
is what it's going to be and he can stay
healthy for the next month and a half, like they're
going to look like a the awesome team that they
probably should be. This was you know, there had been
some mild panic in Buffalo for a couple of different reasons.
(19:35):
This was definitely one where I think they're probably all
feeling a little bit better well.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
And this was a game where James Cook really didn't
get rolling, so they had to find some way to
run the football. That being Josh, you know, whether it's
scrambling or certain design runs, he was able to generate
some of that. I just look at what they're you know,
keV going on at the other skill spots right now.
They didn't have Dalton Kincaid, who's a top five receiving
tight end in the NFL. They don't have Keyon Cole
(20:00):
because he doesn't show up for a meeting on Friday.
They got Gabe Davis who hasn't played a game in
it like a year. They're just kind of finding it.
I do have faith in the coaching staff there, and
of course in Josh Allen that like they're one of
those teams you think when you get to January, they're
going to figure it out. Now, do they figure it
out at such a level that they are making the
(20:21):
Super Bowl run that we've all been waiting for. We'll
find out. But you know, that performance in Miami last week,
it's part of a long history of Bill's teams going
back decades who go down to Miami and it's hot
and they just kind of melt and Josh played bad.
That fumble he had at midfield where you're just like
even he looked like, yes, this is just going to be,
you know, one of those types of days. This offense
(20:42):
is still really dangerous. It starts with the ragning NFL MVP,
and that's going to give him a chance every single week.
Speaking of the Dolphins, they won again. They've won three
out of four. That was a game seven one of them.
If I'm not mistaken. On the other side of the bye,
they've got the Saints and then the Jail. So realistically,
I'm not giving anybody a win. I'm not making predictions,
(21:04):
but they could be six and seven and like right
there in the playoff chase, which when you think, yeah, yeah,
when you think that, you know, this goes to show
how little I think people understand the times where it's
like after two games it was Mike McDaniel should get fired.
They lose on Thursday, just fire him. It's like, no, like,
watch Mike McDaniel. Just watch how he interacts. Look at
(21:25):
all the players when they had that muffed punt at
the end of the game. Just look at like how
fired up the sideline gets. And by the way, they're
in Madrid finishing off what was a very fun International Slay.
Speaker 3 (21:37):
It was the only thing I really care about for
the International Slate is how awesome it looks on TV.
And that was another game where it just looked awesome.
Speaker 4 (21:46):
So that was a win.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
Those stadiums look ridiculously incredible and I love it.
Speaker 4 (21:52):
Just real quick.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
On the Dolphins, what Dolphins brass wanted to see on
Mike McDaniel was did this team keep playing for him?
And if they did, then basically he could keep his
job and try it again next year. That seems to
be a resounding yes, which is good for the Dolphins.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
We're back everywhere throughout the course of this week, including
Tomorrow night, every Tuesday, Wednesday, and Friday, NFL Network at
seven pm Eastern Time. You can also catch us five
days a week on the podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Mondays,
the show is on the Fast Channel, the NFL channel
on fast streaming platforms after Monday Night Football Thursdays it's
(22:29):
on the Fast Channel as well. We're on YouTube. We're
really everywhere, for better or worse. For Ian, I'm Tom.
We'll see you next
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Time, all right,
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