Leadership That Works: Chris Morin on Training Techs, Building Culture & Growing Teams in HVAC

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Welcome to Close it now, thepodcast that's revolutionizing the
H Vac and home improvementtrades industries.
Get ready to dive deep intothe world of heating, ventilation
and air conditioning.
We're turning up the heat onindustry standards and cooling down
misconceptions.
And we're not just talkingabout fixing vents and adjusting

(00:21):
thermostats.
It's about the transformativemovement that's reshaping the very
foundation of H Vac and home improvement.
We're the driving force,inspiring top performers who crave
excellence not only in theirprofessional endeavors, but also
in fitness, nutrition,relationships and personal growth,
proving that we can indeedhave it all.

(00:44):
This is Close it now, whereexcellence meets excitement.
Let's get to work now.
Your host, Sam Wakefield.
Well, right on.
Welcome back, welcome back,welcome back.
This is Sam Wakefield withClose It Now.

(01:05):
Today, my special guest is agentleman that has been in the industry
for a good long time.
In fact, since he was a teenager.
We'll let him tell you some ofhis story.
But it's really fun when youtalk to somebody that's been around
the trades for a good whilebecause we've seen so many of the

(01:26):
elements of the trades, therise and the fall and the industry
going up and the industrygoing down and exploding and everybody's
freaking out and we're overhere going, well, this is just normal.
It happens every few years.
And so everybody take a breath.
It's okay.
The heat is going to come back.
Business is going to come back.
You don't have to sweat itright now.

(01:47):
Except we have to do.
We have to adjust accordingly.
So one of those things that,what that means is you have to be
a great leader in your organization.
And I'm really excited to havethis guest on.
So this is Chris Morin.
He's written the H Vac Problog for 12 years, 12 plus years.

(02:07):
If you've ever read that blog.
That is his blog.
And so happy to have him on.
And today we're actually goingto be talking about his new book,
which is Leadership in H Vac.
So super excited to have youon the show, man.
Thanks, Sam.
I'm really excited to be onhere, obviously, longtime listener
and great to have anopportunity to chat with you and

(02:28):
your audience.
100% man.
Well, give us a highlight,highlight rail.
You were talking to me alittle bit about before we hopped
on the recording here aboutyour history and it's super intriguing.
And so as you know, with all,all of our guests, we give everybody
opportunity to, you know, telleverybody why you're in the seat
here.
Give us your journey.

(02:48):
Yeah, it's been a journey, man.
So I started like you saidwhen I was a teenager.
When I was 16, I got my firstjob in H Vac.
I actually went to tradeschool in my first semester.
I thought I was going to be acook, right.
So I aced was okay for a semester.
And then I realized cookingvats of food is not for me in a restaurant.

(03:09):
And then I decided to make achange and it was pretty simple.
My father just got into H Vac.
At the time I was prettyinterested in it.
It was a little bit of everything.
I remember going through thetrade loop, right.
And a couple of my friendshappened to pick hvac as well.
So it was an easy transitionfor me.
So yeah, I got my first co opjob at 16 riding in a van helping

(03:30):
the.
And I wouldn't say I washooked because I tried to get out
of it.
So when I graduated highschool, a lot of my friends went
to college and you know, wedidn't have the money and I didn't,
I didn't have the know how andhow things worked for that.
So my plan was I was going tojoin the Marine Corps and I was going
to be an electrician.
I was going to get my hours totransfer, right.

(03:50):
That was the plan.
Unfortunately, the way itworks in the Marine Corps, it's really
the needs of the Corps as faras what your job is going to be.
And somebody somewhere alongthe line knew I was good at H Vac
I guess.
So they made me arefrigeration mechanic.
So yeah, I did four.
Well, signed up for four, didabout five and a half, did a couple
tours in Iraq.

(04:11):
I was there for the invasionin oh 3 second trip was actually
ramping up for Fallujah andtheir first elections where I got
my hands on my firstMitsubishi ductless system.
Actually we did 250 of them.
Intense.
Wow.
No gauges, no vacuum pumps.
It was an interesting combination.
I can tell you they workedpretty well.
The seven months out was therein the desert and when I came back,

(04:35):
obviously I made a choice toget out of the Marine Corps at that
point.
Two trips was enough for meand I was a service tech, then service
manager.
I finished my business degreeat night when I was working full
time and got my first trainingjob working for the utility program
in Massachusetts.
So that's where I met a lot oftechnicians and I realized I had

(04:58):
more to share than just what Iwas able to teach that day.
So I started the blog aroundthat time.
And it really took off when Ileft there.
I spent the next almost 10years at Mitsubishi Electric as I
left there as a businessdevelopment manager for the Northeast.
But I was on the sales team,so I was an area sales manager, a
regional sales manager workingwith distributors and contractors.

(05:20):
And I found a much moreinteresting path when it came to
sales and leadership andpricing and all the fun stuff that
goes into leading an organization.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So, you know, I found that alot of our business owners in the

(05:40):
Northeast were amazingtechnicians or awesome installers,
but not good salesmen and notgood business people.
So.
And nevermind, it's widespread too.
It's not just the Northeast.
It's everywhere I go.
I've run into the exact same thing.
Yeah.
So I found, you know, andobviously you mentioned the book
already.
The book actually Leadershipin H Vac is.

(06:02):
Is like, it was so obvious tome regarding these skills that everybody
was lacking, that I would meetthem and they'd be frustrated and
not understand why they can'tkeep employees or why they can't
hire the right guys or whythey always have this problem when
it gets hot outside.
Right.
They just were never taught leadership.

(06:22):
And I was fortunate when I wastaught when I was 19, you know, and
there was specific leadershiptraits we were taught.
And it really transfers sowell into our industry.
So, you know, you're.
You're so right there.
That's one of the interestingthings that, you know, our company
here in Austin, before, whileI was still in the field, while I
was with the company, beforethe owner sold it, we were the highest

(06:45):
number of, highest percentageof all the HVA companies in all of
Central Texas for hiring veterans.
And that very intentionallybecause they all.
Everyone is taught leadership skills.
Everyone's punctual.
Everyone will follow a systemlike, here's our SOP for this process.

(07:07):
And veterans don't understandthat this is how it needs to go.
And we don't deviate from the path.
This is the path, right?
It's like, okay, we're going there.
Get there, and we get there.
And so it was awesome to havea culture of just like everybody
understood each other at adifferent level.
And because of that, we wereable to grow so quickly.

(07:29):
And it was just a.
It was a really coolorganization because of that.
You know, nobody showed uplate and we didn't have any disciplinary
problems.
It was just more of a.
We ran internally almost asimilar structure.
And so I 100% commend you forthe, you know, bringing those traits
to the trades because it'sneeded so, so badly.

(07:50):
It really is.
Yeah.
Well, I mean, if you want togrow and you want to hire good people.
Right.
I think that's the key.
Sure, sure.
And who does it?
I mean, at the end of the day,even the guys that are, you know,
that outside perspective wouldsay that and.
And everybody out there gives.
Give everybody some grace.
You know, there's even theguys that other people would consider

(08:10):
the truck and the trucks,they're doing the best they know
how as well.
You know, we have to give everyone.
I'm all about giving everyonethe benefit of the doubt that they're
truly not intentionally doingthings to harm people.
For the most part.
Are there some deadbeats out there?
Yes, but for the most part,people are good.
People are wholesome.
They're doing the best thatthey know how.
But we just need to train themhow to do better.

(08:33):
Exactly.
It's just a lack of know howis, I think, more of what's missing
in our industry than it is,you know, people intentionally, you
know, going out there just tonot do things right or just to take
advantage.
Yeah, I think that's.
It's interesting in our tradebecause those guys are so busy.
Right.
And they don't necessarily goand look for that knowledge.

(08:56):
Sometimes they just kind offall into it after mistake.
Mistakes and stuff.
And I think, you know,everybody that's worked for me or
myself, the approach I take iswhen the person's ready to learn,
you want to be there and be ready.
Right.
So I think there's an oldthing about, you know, when the.
When the.
Students ready, the masterwill appear.

(09:17):
Students ready.
Yeah.
Master will appear.
Yeah, exactly.
So as long as you're preparedto teach them, you don't have to
force it down the throat.
Teach the people that want to learn.
Right.
And that's the way I've learned.
And I really do feel like,hopefully people that are listening
today and as many people I canreach, that if they want to learn
leadership, there's a way todo this.
You know, it's not YouTubevideos forever.

(09:39):
Right.
There is processes.
I love this.
And so, and everybody outthere right now, most people are
in Drive Time University rightnow, so shout out to all of you that
are doing the dang thing inbetween appointments.
We know what this life islike, but let's get started.
Give us a little bit of acrash course when you say that there's
a process to learningleadership and there's a system to

(10:03):
it.
Take us through just a kind ofa high level.
Actually.
Let's do the other side of thecoin first.
I'd love for you to take usthrough maybe two or three signs
of poor leadership, maybe giveus some bad examples, and then let's
maybe convert over to ahandful of, you know, tips to help
the guys out right now toimmediately be able to think differently

(10:27):
about leadership.
Yeah.
So, you know, there's.
And obviously, I walk througha lot of this in the book, but there's.
In the Marine Corps, there's14 leadership traits.
Right.
And there's an acronym we usein order to remember all of them.
So it's JJ did tie buckle.
Right.
And every.
Every letter actually said.
So this is like in Parrisisland boot camp.
They teach you what eachletter is.

(10:48):
Right.
So justice, judgment,decisiveness, integrity.
I won't go through all of themhere, but I brought it.
If you would just go ahead andjust list them all.
Yeah, let's see if I can getthem all.
All right, now you got me onthe spot.
I'll put you on the spot, too.
Yeah.
So justice, judgment,decisiveness, integrity, dependability.
Right.
Tact, initiative, enthusiasm,bearing, unselfishness.

(11:08):
I'm sorry.
Unselfishness.
Courage, knowledge, loyalty,and endurance.
Oh, that's 14.
Yeah.
We go.
All right, so good job.
I did write the book, so.
But they're not my traits.
Okay?
So.
So, yeah, so obviously there'sa chapter for each.
I have stories around each of them.
Not just personal stories, butI've interviewed people in the trade.

(11:28):
Right.
And former veterans that arenow in H vac.
And the best way as far as ifyou're ready to do this, obviously
you have to know what thesetraits are.
Right.
And there's examples of thingsyou can do in the book.
So the way this is written ismore of a.
A workbook, like, you canalways come back to.
Right.
Okay.
So it's not a.

(11:48):
Read it.
Check the box.
Now I'm a leader.
Right.
It's.
This is what, you know, if youwant to work on this particular trait
this week, let's flip to thattrait and try instituting some of
these things.
Okay?
So at the end of the book,there's actually a little survey
that we ask you to fill outand rate yourself 1 through 5 for
each of these traits.
That way, it gives you a focuson which to work on first.

(12:09):
Okay.
And depending on your role,some things are more prevalent than
others.
Obviously, you know, veryrarely do you have all 14 leadership
traits nailed down.
I think especially if you workfor yourself, you realize you don't
as soon as you as soon as youhire that first hire or you hire
a new person, you realize, ohman, I need to learn how to do some
things here.

(12:30):
I think if anybody that feelslike they have all 14 nailed down
would be reason to believethat they absolutely don't.
It's a journey.
It's not like it's a total.
A destination.
You get there, oh, I made 100on this quiz.
Now I'm a great leader.
Yeah, yeah.
You don't just earn a diplomain leadership, that's for sure.
So, yeah, it's a constantlearning thing.

(12:52):
And you know what, the trade changes.
People change, generations change.
So, you know, you find how youhandle and how you were a leader
with somebody that's maybeolder on your team is not like the
person that's coming out ofhigh school today.
Right.
They don't learn the same way,they don't react the same way.
So sometimes some of thoseskills you need to shift over to
a different trait in order to.

(13:13):
To strengthen thatrelationship with that person.
Yeah, no doubt.
So, yeah, So I would saylearning those traits and then rating
yourself, being honest, so youcan focus on one a week or one a
month and start to implementthat into your everyday process.
Of course, this works betterwhen you have somebody to lead.

(13:33):
If you don't, then you'reworking on it with yourself and you
can consider customers andvendors and stuff as a way to still
be a leader, still havebearing, still still learn knowledge.
Right.
There's.
You can still be loyal in our trade.
Right.
There's other things you cando without having somebody reporting
to you.
Yeah, no doubt.
You know, I heard it.
I love that you talk aboutyourself versus having others to

(13:57):
lead because there's.
Honestly, I think we have tostart there, you know, with our self
discipline, you know, becausethere's an expression I heard years
ago, leader of one, leader of many.
If I can't lead one, I can'tlead any.
Yeah, there you go.
Which means if I need to leadsomebody in nutrition and fitness,

(14:18):
I had better exemplify that.
Otherwise I'm out of integritywith the core values that I'm trying
to lead.
So in that same kind of ideasand principles, I think it's just
as important to be able tolead yourself with the self discipline
and those determination factors.
Yeah.
What's interesting is there'sother core values that are not a

(14:39):
leadership trait.
Right.
So personally, one of the corevalues that comes up every time I
work on anything or work withsomebody, it's consistency.
So consistency is not aleadership Trait.
It's not in the book, but whenyou start talking about leading yourself,
I think consistency isprobably the number one thing that
you can do in order to buildthat confidence and become a leader.

(15:02):
Even though you don't havesomeone working for you.
Mm, yeah, no doubt.
You know, and as you, as youbecome that.
So this is actually a reallygood principle for recruiting, you
know, and I love when peopleare trying to hire, I instantly have.
Have the conversation withthem about, okay, this is not hiring
where you have to be arecruiter, not a hire.
And so when you're recruiting,you have to be the person that everybody's

(15:26):
like, oh, how do I, how do Irecruit better?
How do I hire more better people?
So we'll one, create a culturewhere they want to be there, but
two, make a list of all of thetraits and the characteristics that
you want in your ideal personthat you would hire and then rate
yourself against that.
And if you don't stack up inthat list, go to work there first,

(15:48):
because somebody that is a,you know, an A player is not going
to work for you if you're a B player.
Yeah, yeah.
I think we always thinkoutside first.
And I've worked and talked toplenty of contractors that know what
their ideal customer is, butthey've never even thought about
their ideal employee or fitthemselves into that box.

(16:14):
It's a big deal because that'sa huge first step to creating KPIs
and other items in order tomake sure that, hey, if we're going
to hire someone and we'regoing to promote them and we're going
to train them, they meet these minimums.
Right.
Never mind advancement.
So what are some of the maybetwo or three biggest gaps you see
in leadership as you've,you've interviewed plenty of leaders

(16:37):
and owners and worked inplenty of companies across the years.
You know, what are some of thebig thing big gaps you see that are,
I guess, the lowest hangingfruit that people can, you know,
really start to work on.
Yeah.
Oh, boy, this is gonna betough to be on, just flat out honest.
Right.
So I don't want to.
Ironic.
Let's frame this a little bit.
This is a podcast, so you canspeak in generalities, so feel free

(17:01):
to be as direct and, and asyou need to.
And if it's a mass, you know,we're slapping people in the face.
If the shoe fits, wear it.
Yeah, sounds good.
And I.
This is one I've personallyhad to work on over the years.
And, and I would say tact isprobably One of the first leadership,
in order to, you know, deliverthe truth effectively.

(17:23):
So there's a common thing witha service team member.
Let's say maybe not havingtact in the home, talking to customers,
talking to the servicemanager, talking to the person.
That's scheduling, you know,depending on how your organization's
set up.
And for some reason, you know,especially when it gets hot, you

(17:45):
know, or really cold in theNortheast, that's when tact is extremely
valuable.
Right.
In order to, you know, let'ssay, train salespeople or trained
service people in how tohandle a customer that thinks they
know everything or how todeliver the bad news in a way that

(18:06):
they're able to move forward.
Right, right.
You know, I've been on plentyof job sites.
I was a service manager.
I've been on plenty of jobsites as a sales manager working
with a service.
And it's one of those thingswhere as soon as you hear it, you
know, that person didn't usetact and we are screwed.
Yep.

(18:26):
So I think that's probablywent from.
A level 5 to a level 10 atomicin a matter of five words, if we
say them incorrectly.
Yeah.
And a lot of new businesses, there's.
There's service service guysthat realize they want to put that
stake out and start their own company.
And if they don't develop tactand be able to develop that other

(18:48):
part of the business outsideof just service, they're going to
struggle, you know, they'regoing to struggle in sales, they're
going to struggle in otheritems of their business.
Yeah, no doubt.
Give us a.
For everybody that'slistening, give us a quick maybe
definition and example of tact.
Yeah.
So I would say it's notavoiding the truth, but it's delivering

(19:08):
it effectively.
I think that's.
That's kind of what tact is.
So, you know, talking to ahomeowner and not talking down.
Down to them, not being tooblunt, but working them through your
process in order for them to.
To see what's right.
Right.
So, like, I've talked tosalespeople, and we talk about what's

(19:30):
called the bridge method.
Right.
When you're.
I don't know if you've talkedabout this, Sam.
I don't think I stole it from you.
No.
All right.
So you.
Basically, you wouldacknowledge what the customer.
Knows, even if I have the.
You know, there's peoplelistening to different episodes.
Oh, there you go.
There you go.
Yeah.
I'm willing to bet if youdon't, you call it something different.
Because everybody's probablyused this, right?
So you acknowledge what thecustomer and then you bridge to additional

(19:50):
considerations so you canguide them to a better solution.
Right.
You just don't say you don't want.
I'll be your home and a realplay with me.
Yeah.
Oh, geez.
Yeah, here we go.
So, you know, I know you're gonna.
Be on the spot if I, if you're.
Yeah.
So if we weren't using tactand you wanted to install, let's
say, ductless systems and itjust doesn't make sense for your
house.
They're small cut up rooms,you know, but you insist, hey, this

(20:13):
is the most efficient systembecause I've done all the, all the
stuff in the Internet, youknow, all the way.
I'll tell you what, I readthe, I read this thing called the
H Vac Pro blog and it talksabout how mini splits are the most
efficient thing.
And then I saw it on this Old House.
So Bob Vila said, I need those.
So that's what I want.
Yeah, they're great forcertain applications and I'm so glad

(20:35):
you know about them, Sam,because in the right application
they're extremely efficient.
But if we don't put thatproduct in the right situation, not
only is it not going to be asefficient as you want, but it's not
going to be very comfortable.
So in order to get a productthat works the best in your home,
I think we need to start toexplore other options besides just

(20:57):
ductless.
Because I can get a system asefficient and as comfortable as what
you're looking at now.
Right.
Maybe that's ducted, maybeit's mixed.
But let me show you what I have.
So that way we can actuallyget to what you're looking for.
Comfort and efficiency.
Okay, great.
So, and then hopefully I canthen help you see some of the other

(21:18):
options.
Right.
So it's not discounting whatthey've learned and all the effort
they've put in, it'sdelivering the truth effectively
and not avoiding it.
Right.
Yeah.
It's not just saying, hey,that would be a dumb idea for your
house.
Yeah, you don't want to do that.
Those things suck.
You know how many times I putthose in?
Right.
And I always had thesecallbacks and like, or even worse,

(21:38):
saying it, saying that aboutsomebody else that does that.
Right.
Because that was the last.
That's even worse.
Right.
So yeah, there's ways of nomatter what role you're in delivering
that, I mean, it could be acondenser that's down.
That Just needs a capacitor orsomething, and you can walk in instead
of.
You know, when somebody says,wow, it's.
It's going to cost me 250 fora capacitor.
I can get that for $20 online.

(22:00):
I've seen technicians take thewrong approach and be like, go ahead,
buy it yourself.
You know, I'm leaving.
Right.
What are you doing?
You know, like, you have toexplain, like, the value and, like,
there's a warranty and there'sa higher quality, and there's other
things with that capacitorthat you're selling that you think
you can get just for $20 online.
Yeah.
You got to build the value 100%.
I love it.

(22:21):
And if anybody's charging $250for capacitor, raise your price.
Yeah, that's not enough.
That's probably a trip chargenow, right?
Yeah.
As you can tell, I haven'tbeen in service for about 15, 20
years.
Yeah, that's.
That's what.
In fact, it's.
You definitely don't call it atrip charge.
Yeah, no.
Good.
I'm giving you a hard time.
So beyond tact, what's anotherone that you see that is a big missing

(22:44):
piece in a lot of leadershipin companies.
Yeah.
I think the next one, I wouldsay, is initiative.
And that goes both ways.
Not just your employee, butalso yourself.
Right.
Because I'm a big proponent ofleading by example.
Like we talked about, you haveto look inward first.
Right.
And if you're not taking theinitiative and you're not displaying

(23:06):
that, then that's going to bemirrored by your employees.
Right.
That becomes the standard inyour organization.
So, actually, there's a greatstory in my book.
A gentleman I used to workwith is Mike Gamberone.
He's actually at Mitsubishi.
He's a sales manager there forthe Northeast now.
And in that book, he tells methe story about when he was in the
Navy and he actually got hisfirst duty on a ship.

(23:30):
And the first night he was onthe ship, he wanted to figure out
what the piping runs were andthe layout of the refrigeration system,
because he was responsible for it.
And if something went down, hewanted to be able to fix it quick.
So he jumped up in the ceilingand started tracing all the piping.
And then, sure enough, one of the.
One of the officers came byand like, what the hell are you doing

(23:50):
in the ceiling, son?
You know?
So he explained it to him, andimmediately the response was rewarding
that initiative.
Like, that is the best thingI've Heard, keep doing what you're
doing.
Right.
And then, you know, I don'twant to age, Mike.
This is probably 30 or 40years ago.
He's still telling the storybecause it meant that much to him
about his manager.

(24:11):
You know, identifyinginitiative and rewarding the initiative
just with a simply good job.
You know, he didn't give him anything.
Just out of boys.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And.
But you think about the other side.
That officer could have justbeen sitting in his office, not doing
anything.
He was.
He was making his rounds.
He was going to see what hisguys were doing.
Right.
He was being involved.
And that translates reallywell to H vac and job sites and service

(24:31):
teams and stuff like that.
Yeah.
There's a.
Let's see.
It was Herb Keller.
Keller, the Southwest.
Oh, yeah.
In his book, one of the thingsthat he talked about so much is management
by walking around.
Yeah.
And he's like, just walkthrough and talk to your people.
Yeah.
I would say ask questions.

(24:51):
Never know what you'll learn.
Yeah, Just ask questions.
Hey, what are you doing?
How do you do that?
It's amazing.
And then, you know, you mighthave an opportunity to help them
do it quicker or easier, youknow, because you have that knowledge.
You've been there forever, right?
Yeah.
One way or the other, it could be.
You could help them where.
Wow.
I see what you're doing, man.
This.
Did you develop this method yourself?
This looks so much easier andquicker than what, the way we used

(25:13):
to do it.
Yeah.
Let's document and teach thewhole team.
Yeah.
It could be one way or the other.
Like, wow, can we share thiswith Everybody else?
Yeah, 100%.
I love this, man.
This is good stuff.
So, you know, going throughthis, what are the.
When someone starts to getinto leadership, you know, and say
they.
They pick up your book andthey start working on this, you know,

(25:35):
what type of a.
Well, there's.
There's lots of differentquestions we could ask here.
What.
I guess one of the big things is.
What I found is just like wewere talking about earlier, is people
don't know what they don't know.
So how does someone.
I guess the question I'mtrying to get to here, now that I've

(25:56):
formulated my thoughts, is foreverybody listening, if they feel
like they're a decent leader,but from the outside, if somebody
has a lot more leadershipskill, would look at them and say,
man, they need some work.
How would they know they needto get to work on better leadership?
That's interesting.
I think there's a.

(26:17):
There's some indicators Ithink, you know, most likely a leader
is not going to tell somebody,hey, you need to be a better leader.
Right.
Like we were talking aboutwhen the student's ready.
Right.
But if you were to come to meand say, hey, I want to be a better
leader, I could say, you know what?
I've noticed a couple things Ithink I can help you with.

(26:38):
Right.
So having some self awarenessand, you know, being honest with
yourself and rating yourselfand asking for help would be the,
the key there.
Right.
So it's really hard to lookjust like at the external and say
you're not a, that person'snot a good leader or they are.

(27:00):
Right.
I can't just walk on a job oneday and say you need some work on
leadership.
But if you're complainingabout always losing employees for
a dollar or two an hour, notbeing able to find the right people
to hire like you talked about.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I was going to ask you, let'sdo this differently.
Looking at an organization,what are signs of.

(27:22):
Yeah.
Thanks for teeing that up.
Yeah.
Sam, that's.
Yeah.
So high turnover, you know, Iwould say consistent, consistent
times where the team boilsover in argument.
Right.
Not being aligned and, youknow, not being consistent in your

(27:42):
choices.
So we talked about consistencyearlier, but I would say, you know,
not always going with yourgut, but actually having a documented
process and when somebody doesthis, this is the result.
This is what we do.
Right.
So I think a good leader willhave that nailed down.
Those items where, you know,it's hard.

(28:05):
Like I said, I can't walk on ajob one day and see that that leader
doesn't do that because it's,it's a cumulative over six months
in a season, let's say.
So you know, I would thinkabout your organization and think
what happens when it's hot andhumid out.
Are we all on the same pagemoving everything in the right direction
or is there always friction,always arguments, always complaining,

(28:29):
always.
Am I always putting out fires?
Right.
Or are we actually doingsomething good for customers?
Like if I can, at the end ofthe day, if I know our team is fixing
equipment and installing highquality jobs and there's not all
of this noise around it, I'mprobably doing a good job as a leader.
Nice.
Yeah, I like that.

(28:50):
Yeah, that's really.
I feel like leadership is oneof those skills that.
But it's so tangible and atthe same time it's so hard to see.
Yeah.
At the same time it's like atotal dichotomy there because Everyone
knows a great leader when theymeet him.
Yeah, well, yeah, I think ifyou work for them, you know, a great

(29:11):
leader.
Yeah.
I think somebody command cancommand a room and maybe not necessarily
be the best leader becausethey don't make good choices outside
that room.
Right.
So where, you know, sometimes.
Sometimes you don't knowthey're a good leader until you talk
to their employees and yourealize all the stuff they've done
for them and their familiesand, you know, help them grow as

(29:32):
a person or as in their trade.
You don't see that unless youspeak with them.
Right.
So sometimes there's reallyquiet leaders that are really good.
They don't have to be loud.
They don't have to hold the stage.
Yep.
Yeah, 100%.
There's some of the bestleaders I found.
Not.
Not all of them, of course,you know, plenty are loud, big personalities

(29:55):
as well the drivers.
But interestingly enough,there's been a couple leaders in
my life that I've come acrossthat were the quiet, reserved, observant
ones.
Yeah.
Didn't really say a whole lot,but the moment that they spoke, the
room got silent because itcarried so much weight because of

(30:17):
what they had to say.
Everyone wanted to listen.
There's so many differenttypes of leaders, too.
Yeah.
I think in that instance, thatwas probably built up with credibility
over decades.
Most likely because if you'resoft spoken right out the gate, it's
tough to gain that sort of,you know, as soon as I talk, everybody
listens sort of situation.
But, you know, if you'reconsistently delivering that value

(30:39):
for decades, people are goingto listen no matter how quiet you
are, you know.
Yeah, no doubt.
Yeah.
Those were rooms I remembereverybody would give of, you know,
bounce back and forth theirideas and thoughts and opinions.
And then once it died down,everyone would turn to these people
and then wait for, okay, nowthat we've said everything we had
to say, what do you really think?

(31:00):
Yeah.
And then whatever they said iswhat everybody was doing anyway.
Yeah.
Oh, it was always the best idea.
Yeah.
I mean, that's.
That means you had the rightpeople in the room, right?
Yeah.
So you were in the right room.
You know, I also too, I thinkeven if you're allowed or a leader
or not, if people want to goto work for your company, then that
shows that the people that areworking at your company are talking

(31:23):
about it and do.
And saying good things.
Because there's not, there'snot going to be an influx of resumes
when you're not hiring ifpeople don't want to work there.
And people don't.
That work there, don't love itbecause you're a great leader.
Right.
So.
And it's not usually about money.
It's usually about everythingelse that we were talking about today.
It's not just what's my hourly wage.
Yeah.
It's not just, you know,having a pizza party on Friday afternoon

(31:44):
and, you know.
Okay, okay.
Yes.
But also, that's not whatmakes culture.
I've heard so many differentthings out there.
I've heard.
I've heard guys that bring ina barber, you know, they expect their
team to have a haircut because they're.
They want to be presentable,but they never think to bring the
barber in to do it for them onwork time.
You know, that's how you knowit's going to get done.

(32:05):
You know, I think there's.
So there's a handful of thingslike that I've heard they bring in,
you know, based on callbackrate and things like that.
They'll actually spin a wheeland there's prizes.
Sometimes it's time off,sometimes it's new boots, Sometimes
it's a Dunkin Donuts giftcard, you know, I mean, and depending
on how, what.
Whatever level you were at,you get one or two spins, you know,

(32:27):
so there's some really coolthings that companies are doing out
there that really build a culture.
But it starts.
You can't build a culture ifyou're not a good leader.
Right.
So, you know, it's interesting.
Yeah.
You mentioned the new boots.
I was just last week in Chicago.
Well, actually Rockford,Illinois, at a company called Perfect,
Perfect Attempt.
And Dave.

(32:48):
Dave Fernetti up there, he does.
He buys his.
He does lots of things.
He's a massively giving person.
He's a great leader.
Everybody there, like,absolutely is there because they
want to follow him.
They see the vision, you know,and one of the things he does, he
was telling me he buys themall new boots every year.
That's awesome.
You know, they're the.
And he doesn't cut expense either.

(33:08):
I think they're.
I forget the brand, butthey're like, you know, 300, 350
for a pair of boots is justbuilds in his bedroom.
Everybody needs new shoes.
We need new, clean shoes to besafe and productive.
And, you know, just one of thethings as well as, you know, a tool
account and that type of deal.
Because.
But I think it's 500 a year orsomething like that for tools and

(33:29):
all these things.
And it's like just thoselittle Things that make such a difference,
if I can.
So leadership is interesting.
You mentioned Michael Gerber,which I love because he's titan in
the industry.
I saw him years ago at an ACA convention.
And one of the things that Iloved in the E Myth was about leadership.

(33:55):
And as the leader owner, yourjob is to work on the business.
As your machine, the businessis your product.
The business's product is toinstall heating and air conditioning
or plumbing or garage doors orelectrical or whatever your business
does.
But as the leader, as theowner, your job, your business is

(34:16):
making everyone in thatorganization's life smoother and
easier to do whatever it isthat the business does.
And having that layer ofdistinction and knowing that that
leader is the leader's job isto make their life better and easier
and smoother.
Sometimes that doesn't alwaysmean the positive stuff.

(34:37):
Sometimes it means thenegative stuff, which actually, I'm
teeing up a question aboutleadership when it comes to things
that are more difficult, likeconfrontation and discipline.
Because I'm sure you probably.
I haven't read it yet and I'mexcited to, but I'm sure you probably
have a section in here aboutwhen those types of things come around.

(34:59):
So when that's the case,what's a great way for people to
approach those types oftopics, those subjects?
Yeah, I think so.
The best leadership shape todecide to fit into that would be
justice.
Right.
And I really think thatfocuses on fairness and consistency.

(35:19):
So, you know, it is tough.
So as an example, let's say your.
Your top performer breaks oneof your golden rules, whatever it
is, I won't even start listingthem because I'm sure we've all seen
them.
Right.
So let's take a.
One of the basic.
Since this is set, close it.
Now let's take one of thebasic rules of sales.
Never lie, cheater, steal.
Let's say it's one of those.

(35:40):
There you go.
Never lie.
So you really can't make anexception, even if it's your star,
Right.
This is an important part ofyour business because if you do make
an exception just becausethey're your best performer, then
everyone knows that your rulesare conditional.
Right?
So transparency is reallyimportant there.

(36:01):
And, you know, explaining thereasoning, especially when decisions
are tough, using tact anddelivering that message is really
important and keeping track ofthose decisions, you know, it's.
This sounds so elementary, butlike, like a decision log or something,
something to write down.
So that way if it happensagain, then the resulting training

(36:24):
or whatever it is that you'regoing to be providing that person
or discipline is going to beconsistent no matter what their role
is.
So having justice and focusingon fairness and consistency is probably
the best way to address thatpart of leadership.
For sure.
Yeah.
I love that you answered itwith, with, with justice and, and

(36:44):
fairness.
Because context matters in alot of, a lot of times, a lot of
situations.
I remember years ago, youknow, I had sold a job and it was
in a horribly disgusting house.
What everybody would call it,your typical hoarder house.
You know, the one that you cansmell from the street before you
ever get like almost beforeyou get out of the car.
Yeah, we've all been there and.

(37:05):
Oh yeah, absolutely.
And.
But when I got there for thesales appointment, you know, the
family was there.
It was the brother of thesetwo sisters that lived in this house
and he was a ton of mentalhealth issues.
He could barely live on hisown, but he was doing it not very
effectively and they weretaking over his guardianship so that

(37:26):
it was on their mission toclean the house up and help him out.
And so I was on board withthat because, you know, a heart of
service.
I was like, absolutely.
They're like, oh, thank God.
We called 10 other companies.
10, 10 companies had steppedfoot on the property and walked right
back off and they wouldn'ttake the project.
Yeah.
And I said, we're here to help.
So of course sold the project.

(37:48):
And then I didn't clearlycommunicate the whole context over
to the install crews, so I'llown that for sure.
And then they get there andthen the owner hears about it, calls
me into his office, fullwritten write up about it.
And I was like, hey man, man,let's talk about the rest of what's
going on here.
Yeah, it was one of those situations.

(38:09):
I almost got fired for it, butit was okay, let's really back up
and look at the context ofwhat's happening here.
Right.
It's like, oh, okay, yeah,look back down off of.
I still got the written writeup because it was my.
Because I owned notcommunicating properly.
And so I think of that exampleand it carries through so many times

(38:30):
as you know, we have to takeradical responsibility for everything
in our lives, but also when wedo that, we get the ability to clearly
communicate without falsebarriers and stuff.
So, okay, here's the real bigpicture of what's happening.
I feel like that back andforth with leadership is so important

(38:51):
as leaders to make sure thatpeople feel comfortable enough to
tell you the truth sometimesas a leader.
And because when you establishthat clear Communication that's so
crucial.
So, so talk to us aboutcommunication back and forth there
because that's, I mean,clearly one of the big print.
Most leaders lack bettercommunication skills.

(39:12):
It's true.
And you know, it has to startwith you.
Right.
You have to be the personinitiating that communication because
communications takes twopeople here.
Right.
Otherwise it's just one wayand you know, that's a direction
that's different.
So if your employees areconsistently coming to you not necessari
with gripes and problems, butlike questions or ideas to make things

(39:34):
better, you probably have goodcommunication in your business.
If you're the one that's like,you feel like they're all teenagers
and you're trying to squeeze out.
I have a 15 year old daughter.
So you know, usually.
How was school?
It was good.
Right.
What would you do?
Nothing.
Right.
You know, what'd you learn?
I don't remember.
Yeah, yeah.

(39:54):
So that, that if you'regetting that from your employees
probably need to kick up thecommunication skill.
Right.
So that might be, you know, alot at once to start out and then
you can spread it out over time.
So, you know, when I, when Ihad worked at a big organization,
we used to do weekly check ins.
It was a weekly meeting withany person that worked for you.

(40:15):
So I just had a recurringweekly meeting.
Sometimes it was 10 minutes,sometimes it was 45 minutes, you
know, but I made sure Iaccommodated enough time for them
in order to understand whattheir frustrations were, where their
barriers are, try to clearthose roadblocks like we talked about
Michael Gerber talking about.
Right.
So you have to have thatopportunity and create that communication.
Otherwise if you're justsitting inside that office, that

(40:37):
door closes.
Everybody says, oh, I have anopen door.
Unless you're initiating it,there's not really an open door.
Yeah.
You know, I think you need,you need to establish that openness.
Now the other side is, is asthe employee, you need to feel comfortable
sharing and asking and tryingto promote that stuff without griping.

(40:59):
You know, if you're gonnacome, if you're gonna come with a
gripe, you should also be ableto provide what a solution could
be.
Yeah, right.
Don't just go for one.
Yeah, yeah, I think that's important.
And actually I, as a servicemanager, you know, I always had the
situation where a service teammember didn't see eye to eye with
the homeowner.
Service service manager had togo out to the house and I had to

(41:21):
call the owner to find outwhat the resolution could be.
Right.
And the owner that I workedfor at the time always had this example
in his head that there's threestories or three sides.
Right.
There's the service managerstory, the homeowner story, and the
real one is somewhere in between.
Right.
And that's his job to figureout what is in between, what is fair.

(41:43):
Right.
And what, what meets thatjustice trait we were talking about.
So, you know, sometimes peopletake the approach that the customer
is always right and then theyaddress it with their employees afterwards.
As far as training goes, Idon't recommend that because I feel
like you abandon your team out there.
I think taking that approachfor the guy I worked for really works

(42:03):
well in finding somethingwhere they both have buy in on that
solution and that cuts acrossservice, installs everything.
Sure, yeah.
I mean, that's straight allthe way into your CSRs and office
and books anyone in your.
In, in your care.
Yeah, I like to, I like to sayit more like that.
It's like not anyone in youremployment, anyone in your care.

(42:25):
You're shepherding thesepeople in a way.
And if we're truly leader,then leaders, leaders are at the
front, you know, they'refollowing behind.
We're not the boss at the backwith the whip going, okay, here's
the direction we're headed.
Right.
It's easier to pull and put super.
Famous meme that has passedaround for years and years and years.
There's the example of the onepulling the front of the, of the

(42:48):
everything with the leadersand then the one that's sitting on
the sled that the people arecarrying with the whip.
And it's just so clearlyapparent the times that you see the
difference there.
It's a great visual for sure.
I think, you know, when we'retalking about communication stuff
too, that really might leadinto making sure you're not micromanaging.

(43:11):
So there's a differencebetween teaching somebody and guiding
them and letting them make a mistake.
Not an expensive mistake, butletting them make a mistake and learn
versus micromanaging somebody.
Right.
So you have to be very carefulthere, you know, and, and you know,
they always say people leavemanagers, they don't leave companies.
It's not always true, but themajority of time it is.

(43:32):
Right.
So if they feel they're beingmicromanaged or there's no communication,
that opens the door for themto find somebody that will communicate
with them and offer them a job.
Yeah, so, yeah, no doubt.
So earlier you mentioned theKPIs of leadership.
I'd love for you to break thatapart because for this type of a
topic, this leans more towardswhat would be considered more of

(43:54):
a soft skill.
And so it's hard a lot oftimes to establish specific KPIs.
It's not like we're, oh, theaverage ticket went up.
Oh, here's your close rate.
Things that are justmeasurable by numbers.
What are some KPIs ofleadership and how do we start to.
To define them and classifythem here and then measure them.
Yeah.
So I really think you can usethose 14 traits as the KPIs and,

(44:18):
you know, have some grace withyourself as far as improvement goes.
It takes time, and I wouldconsider time seasons in your trade.
So depending on where you arein the United States, there's sometimes
multiple seasons.
Sometimes it just feels likeone long season, depending on what
you're working.
Right.
So I would say first part of.
Texas, it's mostly like onelong summer with a little.
Exactly, exactly.

(44:39):
And every February, I wish Iwas there.
Yeah.
I live in Massachusetts, so.
No doubt.
Yeah.
It certainly would feel a lotbetter than the cold, wet rain we
get sometimes.
But.
Yeah.
So there's 14 leadershiptraits, and I would first rate yourself
one to five for each trait.
Right.
And we're going to developsome KPIs based on that.
So I think, you know, beingrealistic with your expectation,

(45:01):
understanding time and workingon, we'll say the worst one.
The worst one you ratedyourself first.
I would try to implement oneor two things out of the book for
that trait and, you know, giveyourself 30 to 60 days to see an
improvement, a measurable improvement.
Now, unfortunately, it's notlike the same for every trait.

(45:23):
Right.
Justice versus knowledge isnot the same.
But, you know, traits, youhave to, you know, the opportunities
have to come up to exemplifythose traits because they're not
daily because of, for whatever reasons.
Right.
But I'm willing to bet if youwrite yourself a one on it, it comes
up more often than some of theones you write yourself a five on.
Right.
There's a correlation there.

(45:43):
Sure.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I would say 30, 60 days forimprovement, but really for sustainable,
like transformation, six to 12months of consistent effort on these
things is going to be neededto, to improve your leadership.
Right.
And you know, sometimes thatmeans you recognize that employee

(46:06):
isn't right for that job oryou need to fill a different position
because you, you can't do itas good as somebody else can.
You know, there's some thingsthat start to, you know, bubble up
because, you know, looking atyourself and looking at your Leadership's
traits and skills, you realizethere's a better way to do it.
Sure.
And that usually turns intoprocess development or organization

(46:28):
development, things like that.
You know, I love that what youjust said and it makes me think so
there's an idea that I want tosubmit to you and I would love to
get your opinion and your takeon it.
There's a line betweenconfidence and cockiness, which is
part of this conversation.
And the other part of it it isa leader has to be able to set their

(46:56):
e.
Check their ego at the door ina lot of ways.
And I'd love to hear.
So when you like those twoideas kind of married together, I'd
love to hear your expound onboth of those.
In leadership, a lot of times,recognition between confidence and
cockiness is tact.
Right.
So tact tends to be the numberone thing that, that, that obviously

(47:19):
displays one or the other.
All right.
So you can, you can deliversomething with confidence, not be
a jerk about it.
If you're a jerk about it, youdon't have much tack.
That's what you need to work on.
Right.
And you'll get typicallyimmediate feedback if you, if you're
cocky.
Right.
Especially so there's that, Iguess that's a positive.
You'll know right away.
Right?

(47:39):
Sure.
But the other side of it, Ithink, and just to be sure here,
I think working on that aspectof leadership, you know, it's one
of those things where you're.
If you're losing a lot ofpeople or you're having a lot of

(48:00):
arguments, you're going to endup, you should end up knowing that
you have a problem.
Right.
Look for the common denominators.
Right?
Yeah, exactly.
You're the common denominatorin that equation.
Right.
I think it's hard to, to havethat self realization and, and know

(48:20):
where you stand and be honestwith yourself.
If you can, then now you'reable to improve it.
Right now you have the abilityto know where you are and what you
need to do to improve.
And if you're not ready toimprove, there's, you know, you're
just going to keep on in that cycle.
Yeah.
So sorry if I didn't answeryour question directly.
No, no, that's good.
This is great.
I mean, this is aconversation, you know, the, that

(48:43):
the whole ego thing, youperfectly answered it without even,
you know it.
That's where so many, the tactpart of it, it tends toward being
a jerk to people.
When there's ego involved,then that means you know better than
everyone else.
All the time.
Yeah.
Which, as we know, is neverthe case for a single person on the
planet.

(49:03):
Right.
I will happily admit all thetime that I don't know at all.
I just.
Yeah.
I know some things that I'mlearning all the time.
Sometimes my.
My wife and daughter say thatI know everything, and then I just
tell them, no, No, I just sayit with confidence.
So I might be completelywrong, but I'll tell you with confidence

(49:25):
that that's what the sky is.
Red.
Yeah.
No, it's not.
I'm like, it absolutely is.
You know, so of course, that'sprobably a little cocky the way it
comes across, because you knowit's not true.
Right.
But I'm sticking by it.
But it is twice a day.
It is.
See?
Yeah.
So there you go.
So, yeah, I'm gonna spin it alittle bit.

(49:45):
There you go.
Yeah, you gotta find the.
You gotta find a little truth.
Right.
So.
Yeah.
You know, I think.
I think there's.
There's certainly the abilityof everybody improving, but if you
find yourself in that cycleand you need help, I think it doesn't
hurt to read a book, and itcertainly doesn't hurt to find someone

(50:06):
that you want to be like,because I'm willing to bet there
they'll offer to help you ifyou're honest with yourself and you
tell them what you want towork on.
There's so many organizationsin our trade in every state where
there's people willing to giveback and try to help people not make
the same mistakes that they made.
No doubt.
So just.
Just ask.
Somebody will show up.

(50:26):
Oh, 100%.
Yeah.
The.
That we said earlier, when thestudent's ready, the master will
appear.
And when you're truly seekingto improve, those people just.
They do show up.
This last year has been themost incredible thing in my life.
I've had three or four peopleout of the blue from one that I knew
15 years ago and the othersthat I just met just completely at

(50:49):
random that all of a suddenhave become mentors in my life, that
I could not have just reachedout to him directly if it had to
happen serendipitously like that.
So it's just a livingtestament that this happens all the
time.
And.
Yeah.
And for everybody listening,when you decide that you want to
improve, have the courage,don't be afraid to reach out to people

(51:11):
that you respect and you.
You admire and you want to bepeople that have gone before you,
that are successful in doingthe things that you want to be successful
in, because I'll tell you thenumber of times that I've given my
email and my phone number inalmost 250 episodes across six years
on this show, over 70 countries.

(51:32):
I think I can count on lessthan one hand the number of people
that have actually used itthat reached out and said, hey, I
need.
Can you, can you answer thisquestion for me?
Yeah, it's very rare.
I have my.
You can always grab 15 minuteson my schedule.
There's a link direct to mycalendar that usually my assistant

(51:52):
sends out every time there's a question.
And the number of people thatactually just book 15 minutes to
talk to me.
It's so minor, you know, andthose are the ones I want to talk
to.
I want to help you.
Right.
That is my business modelhelping you, you know, just like
you, Sam.
Yeah.
So if you're not calling andyou're not asking, that means I'm

(52:13):
looking for you, right?
So, yeah, it's, it's crazy out there.
I wish more people would bewilling to, to learn how to be a
better leader or learn abetter sales process, things like
that.
You know, it's reallyimportant for our trade in order
to.
It's interesting how it ties together.
So I want to camp on this fora second before we.
I definitely will give youhere in a minute.

(52:34):
I want you to talk about thebook a little more in depth.
But you know, there.
I just did a series recently.
It was a nine part series.
It was on the energy of an appointment.
How do we control the energyof appointment?
But the theme that carriedthrough a lot of it was we are the
calm in their chaos.

(52:55):
We have to be the leader inthe appointment.
So leadership applies whenwe're talking about the organizational
level, like most of theconversation today has been, but
at the same time when we'rethe leader of our own life.
But in our, in ourappointments, you know, we're, we're
leading truly do sales orservice, like at the highest level,

(53:18):
we are the leader of that appointment.
And those homeowners line upbehind us and follow us right to
the destination if it's done properly.
So I really feel like itmarries together really in every
single thing we do.
There's element.
Every single one of thesecharacteristics can apply in every
conversation.
Yeah, it definitely can.
I 100% agree with you.

(53:39):
And actually in the bookthere's, there's some recommendations
if you're an owner, if you'rea salesperson, if you're an office
manager.
Right.
So there's, there'srecommendation no matter what your
role is.
It's not, you know, it's notone of those things where you have
to be the owner to be a leader.
Being a leader is not tied toa title.
Right.

(54:00):
I, I can say I, I think, andpeople that I used to work with in
the past will probably laughand chuckle, but there was a time
where I was not a leader whenI worked at a big corporation and
then I recognized where my, mypitfalls were, you know, things like
tact and things like that.
And I worked on it and I thinkI became a better leader, you know,
and actually one of the bestthings I ever did was be certified

(54:21):
as a professional coachbecause I really had to look inward
and understand how to talk toother people depending on their personality
and things like that, whichmakes a huge difference intact.
Right.
Because now I know wherethey're coming from and their direction
and what they're trying to doand see.
So working on that, I thinkwas probably the biggest transformation

(54:43):
for me as a leader outside oflearning the leadership traits when
I was 19.
Now just learning them doesn'tmake you a leader.
Right.
It takes the experience of thenext 25 years, hopefully to be a
leader.
Right.
Right now I just age 100%.
I love this.
So earlier you mentioned.
So your new book is Leadershipin Hvac and you mentioned there's
a longer subtitle.

(55:05):
Tell us more about thesubtitle and give us a quick highlight
reel of the book.
Take us on a.
Take us on a virtual book tour.
Yeah, you got it.
Thanks.
So the subtitle ApplyingMarine Corps Leadership traits to
Residential Contracting.
So obviously that's what wewere talking about the last hour
or so here.
And the book breaks down wherethere's an intro and I tell my experience

(55:27):
and why it's important notjust in the Marine Corps, but also
our trade.
And each chapter is one ofthose traits.
And typically each chapter notjust includes a definition.
Right.
But it includes a personal example.
I tried to, you know, Iinterviewed, I think, 10 out of the
14 traits I got interviews forwith veterans that are now in H Vac

(55:49):
at different roles and whattheir experience was a story around
one of those traits.
Right.
And how, and I tie it back toH Vac, obviously.
And then, you know, there'ssome recommendations in there on,
depending on your role, whatyou can implement today or what you
can work on today, if this isthe trait you need to work on.
And then of course, that, thatfive step process at the end of rating

(56:11):
yourself one through five and,and working on each so it's not a
long read.
And I have it right here.
It's.
It's probably 170 pages or so,but like I said, it's.
It's made to be a resourcethat you keep going back to.
To work on something.
It's not.
Read it, check the box, put iton your.
Put it on your.
Your mantle or whatever.
I have plenty of books like that.

(56:31):
They're.
They're great design booksthat I need to go reference every
once in a while.
And then there's ones like Iwish I never had to pick up, like
code books that get you more.
Right.
So I also have a whole shelfof books that I read, you know, two
thirds of the way through anddidn't like it.
Right.
And, you know, I don't evenwant to hand it off to somebody.

(56:52):
So what I would say is pull.
Out the nuggets, you know,chew up the meat and spit out the
bones.
Exactly, exactly.
So I would say if you dopurchase a copy, this is on Amazon
only, so Amazon.com if you goand get a copy, I think you're going
to find you want to keep it.
It.
Don't give your copy tosomebody else.
Maybe buy two if you wanted to.
Or just tell them everybody.

(57:13):
Yeah, please.
Yeah, I wouldn't mind that.
Right.
So trust me, you don't get, asyou probably know as an author, you
don't get much on royaltiesfor books, but it's one of those
really expensive business cards.
The point of the book is notto make money.
The point of the book.
Exactly.
The glorified business card.
That's what it is.
That's what it is.
And I think it really was away for me to make that connection

(57:34):
of the early part of myjourney in the trade and what I see
out there every day, whichseems like common sense, but that's
because I was taught when Iwas 19, and a lot of these guys have
been only in the trade sincethey were 19.
There's no H VAC leadershipcourse out there.
Maybe that's my next step.

(57:55):
I don't know.
But let's talk about that.
Yeah, right.
I like that idea a lot.
Yeah, I think there's anopportunity there for sure.
Because, you know, once youget to a certain level, you feel
like, okay, I need to takemore business classes and I need
to understand my pricing.
I need to understand how Istructure my business.
But nobody's teaching you howto actually be a leader in that situation.

(58:15):
Yeah, no doubt.
Yeah.
No, this is totally fine.
I actually, I have Plans for aowners slash principal leaders master
circle with a full onmastermind and course for that.
That.
So we need to talk more.
Yeah, absolutely.
Actively putting together for to.
To release here in the future.

(58:36):
So how does the what, what alldo you offer for everybody and how
do they get a hold of you?
Yeah, I do more than expensivebusiness cards.
Right.
So I actually teach in thenortheast in person system design
training.
I'm an Akka EPIC instructor.
I've been teaching that forabout 15 years.
So that's a big part of my business.
And I realize not everybody'sgoing to fly to New England in order

(58:56):
to learn this stuff and theycan't wait for an ACA instructor
to fly to them.
So I actually have a mastercourse, master class that I teach.
It's a four week master classthat covers manuals.
J, S, D and Z R for zoning.
Okay.
If you're asking what any ofThose letters are, grab 15.
Yeah, you should definitelytake a class.

(59:16):
Maybe not the master class.
There might be some free stuffthat we can get.
I love this.
I had a coaching client callthis morning thing and he's really,
he was in mortgage trades andwe've had like one session so far
and he's, you know, initiallygets on the phone, he's like, okay,
so I did the load calculationand it was 400 square foot per ton.
I was like, I'm gonna stop youright there.
Yeah, you're wrong.

(59:39):
Yeah.
And here's why.
Yeah.
And so.
And then I just gave him asuper high level crash course.
I was like, all right, you gotyour manual, J.
You got your manual.
D.
You got your manual.
S.
We're not even going to talkabout the zoning manual right now.
In fact, you don't need toknow about S right now.
Eventually you'll learn D next.
But let's focus on J right now.

(01:00:00):
That's the order we want to go in.
Let's get your lowest hangingfruit here.
I love that you teach all that.
Because while I tell everybodythey don't have to have it to start
in cells, don't stay there there.
Learn it over time.
Only make you better, higherquality, higher value systems.
And that starts around thedesign process.

(01:00:22):
Just so you guys know, ifyou're not familiar with those manuals,
there's a little bit of a joke here.
When I teach those manuals,it's in an order.
Okay.
There's an order that'srecommended and if you grew up in
the 90s, you're probably goingto get this acronym.
Pretty good.
So the order is J, Z std.
So it's an easy way toremember the order of the design
manuals.
So it's always load calcul,zoning, equipment selection, terminal

(01:00:46):
selection, which would bewhere you put your outlets and registers.
Then duct design.
You can't do it in any orderyou want.
Right, Right.
So jzstd.
I love it.
That's hilarious.
Hopefully your video doesn'tget flagged on, on YouTube now.
No, no, I think we're good.
Context.
Context matters.
Yeah, there you go.
Unless an AI bot grabs it.
Because I have a.
For everybody.
Listen, if you, if you're.

(01:01:07):
When you're daily grateful, itchanges everything.
I have a gratitude chat threadthat started out of my Facebook group
two days ago.
I was putting in my dailygratitude moment and I'm so grateful
for, you know, just a coupledifferent things and they shut me
down.
They blocked me from my ownchat thread because they thought
I was trying to spam peopleand sell something.

(01:01:29):
Unbelievable.
Oh, come on.
AI can be used for good thingstoo, but unfortunately there's picks
up some stuff.
It's funny.
So it's funny you say that.
So not a big part of mybusiness, but I do some coaching
with contractors and one ofthe things I always get pulled into,
which I like to do isdeveloping processes and helping
with processes in their business.
Right.

(01:01:49):
So about 10 years ago, maybefive years ago, somewhere in that
range, I couldn't find a dailyplanner that worked for me very well.
So I tried them all and theclosest one I got was similar to,
I don't know if you know,Michael Hyatt, he had a daily planner
that was pretty good.
So I was using that, but therewas a lot of pages I wasn't using.
It didn't pertain to H Vacvery well and stuff as far as like

(01:02:11):
being on a sales team.
Right.
So and, and it totally leftout some aspects that I was looking
for.
So I actually created my owndaily planner.
Really?
Yeah.
So I teach a process aroundthat too.
Usually it's around November,December time frame because everybody's
looking to create goals andtrack that sort of thing and stuff.
So yeah, I have that.
It's a small, small aspect ofwhat I do.

(01:02:32):
But I think I'm such a processdriven person and people see it and
they ask how you're able toget all these things done, how you're
able to follow up on everybodyand all.
It's having a process.
Right.
And sticking to it and being consistent.
So therefore I help people andteach a process if they don't have
one.
Right.
And what I tell them is like,take this process and make it your

(01:02:53):
own.
If there's something thatdoesn't work, change it, man.
It's going to work for you,for you to follow it and be consistent.
So yeah, so I do sell the.
Planner or is there some more?
I do.
It's on Amazon.
Yeah.
So it's the H Vac Pro Planner.
So I don't sell very many of them.
It's small cost.
They're like three month planners.
I'm looking for mine.
I.
Oh, I'm taking notes in it soit looks like this.
So it's actually everybody on notice.

(01:03:14):
You get, actually get to see it.
Yeah.
So if you're new, sorry, Iforget, like and subscribe.
The.
It matches the trousers frommy Marine Corps uniform in the back.
So it's, it's got the, youknow, that's where it came from.
Oh, very cool.
Yeah, so it's pretty good.
You know, it's, it's undatedso you can pick it up and use it
anytime.
Typically, most people buy thethree month version.
You can get it in softerhardcover, depending on what your

(01:03:36):
preference is.
But yeah, I burn through oneof these every three months and I
don't forget much because Iwrite it down.
Don't get me wrong, I usetechnology and I have a digital calendar
and all that stuff.
But each week I'm walkingthrough and creating that plan and
not missing anything, everything.
And I plan things that are themost important to me first, which
happens to be my daughter'stheater and that sort of stuff too.

(01:03:58):
It's a big aspect of your life.
You can't just focus on work.
You got to do everything.
I love that you mentioned thatthey there's for everybody.
If you want to turn yourattention more to your family and
your kids and those types ofthings and the really important stuff,
go back and listen to theRoots and Wings series.
I did a four part series onthat for everybody that's listening.
And if you say you're a familyman and the reason you do this is

(01:04:22):
your family, but you look atyour calendar and those things aren't
on there, first you're lyingto yourself.
If you look at your libraryand you see 150 or 200 business and
sales books and there's no, ormaybe one book on how to be a better
family person, how to betterraise better children, those types
of things, you're lying toyourself, yourself because it's just

(01:04:44):
not true.
Because your actions willprove it.
Out.
So choose to be a family manwith a business, not a businessman
with a family.
There you go.
I can't second that any, anymore than how you said it.
I call them non negotiables.
Right.
You start with that.
That goes in the calendar, andyou work yourself around that.
Unfortunately, over the years,I haven't had the gym as a non negotiable,

(01:05:04):
and that just made it backinto my calendar recently, so working
on it.
So that's it.
You know, the thing is, it's.
Gosh, I love this because I'min the middle right now.
There's one more episodecoming out talking about perfection
and how it's the, it'scrippling us, you know, and progress
is so much better than perfection.
Nobody cares that, that if we didn't.
Because, you know, the besttime to plant a tree is 20 years

(01:05:25):
ago.
The second best time is today.
So as long as we start todayand make progress.
You're lapping everybody onthe couch.
Who cares?
Yeah.
What's the first best stepthat you can take?
You don't have to, like, hityour goal today.
Right.
So some of the toughest onesto hit are like, I'm gonna floss
every day this year.
Yeah, right.
Because you can't just, like,okay, the second day of the year
I was out and I didn't have myflossers and that.

(01:05:48):
You don't give up the third day.
You do it right.
Like, yeah, so what?
It's not every day.
That's not a good goal, by the way.
Don't, don't say you're gonnado that every day.
Like, there's, there's bettergoals and better ways to measure
things.
Yeah.
So.
Well, and he's not sayingdon't plus either, so don't take
that.
Of course.
Don't hear what we're not saying.
Yeah.
So we've got leadership in H Vac.

(01:06:08):
We've got your pro.
What was the planner.
Yeah.
So H Vac Pro Planner.
Pro planner.
And then is that, Is thateverything or what else?
Yeah, so I wrote a book a.
While ago up in the Northeast.
Yeah.
So I wrote a book a littlewhile ago called opportunities in
H Vac.
It's short, it's on, it's on Amazon.

(01:06:29):
Was 2019 or so right beforeCOVID kind of squashed it, unfortunately.
So that's available out there.
But I, you know, not intoselling books.
You know, I, I, I will have.
All these links in the shownotes for everybody listening.
Go in, grab this, grab thelinks, or order Chris's books.
I'm sure that they're quality.
I will definitely be gettingsome as well.

(01:06:50):
I appreciate to read these.
I.
I fully plan to.
For everybody listening, wehave restarted the the Close It Now
Book club.
So if you hear this episodebefore, let's see, date of recording
is.
In fact, I'm going to movesome stuff around and we're going
to release this one todaybecause I really, really have enjoyed

(01:07:11):
this conversation.
Thanks, bud.
This is Friday the 13th.
Friday, June 13th.
Today, the date of recording.
If you hear this episodebefore Friday, June 20, 2025, the
book club this month is Go forno the Sequel, which is a really
great short book.

(01:07:32):
Incredible book.
If you know anything about me,every single one of my coaching clients
required reading is Go for no.
Now that we're reading theSequel, it might shift to the new
one.
But here's why I'm saying this.
The book club meeting is goingto be at 1 o' clock on the 20th,
1 o' clock central time in myZoom room.
And the authors, Andrea Waltzand Richard Fitton are going to be

(01:07:55):
sitting in on the book clubmeeting, which is really exciting.
So if you're anybody that's afan of Go for no, join the book club.
Let's fill this room for them.
And it's not often that youget to have the authors of a really
famous book like that that'schanged the face of industries get
to sit in and have aconversation with them about the

(01:08:16):
thoughts and ideas andconcepts that they presented in the
book.
So it's going to be an opendiscussion, everybody.
So make sure to hop onto thatsession because it could be a lot
of fun.
Yeah, sounds awesome.
That's a great option.
With that being said,Leadership in H Vac is going to be
next month's book.
Oh man, thanks.
Absolutely.
Of course.

(01:08:36):
You never even told me.
That's a great announcement.
I appreciate it.
Yeah, I know.
I wanted to surprise you.
So when we have that session,would you be open to sitting in and.
Yeah, let's work out the calendar.
Absolutely.
We'll time it.
So you heard it here first, everybody.
That's the Leadership in H Vacwill be next month's book and Chris
Morin, the author, will sit in.

(01:08:58):
We'll coordinate the scheduleso it can work out and we can sit
in and have a great discussionaround that for everybody that's
read the book.
So it may probably won't beable to do that with all of the authors
of all the books we'll read.
But as often as I Can.
I'm working on getting theauthors in because I feel like it
just adds so much value andreally sets this book club apart

(01:09:19):
from others.
Yeah, that's for sure.
All right, man.
Well, how does everybody get ahold of you?
So if they want to track youdown for the course, if they want
to get in touch with youdirectly to talk leadership, all
of these things, how do theydo it, man?
Yeah, easiest.
Where do they find the H vac?
Oh yeah.
So H vacproblog.com really easy.
Yeah, super easy.

(01:09:40):
Right.
So if you go there and youclick in the top right, if you don't
have show notes because you'redriving or whatever you can.
Don't click on when you're driving.
Right.
But top right is where you canfind the book.
Also there's a, there's a button.
You can join our newsletter,which is once or twice a week I'll
send out some written or video content.
I do have a YouTube channel.
I just haven't been able topost a lot because I did the book

(01:10:00):
and doing a bunch of podcastsand stuff with people that I like.
So.
And then on there, on most ofthose pages you'll find services
about all those pages have acontact form.
You can fill out the contact form.
You can schedule 15 minutes onmy calendar and I would love to talk
about where you think I mightbe able to help.

(01:10:22):
You know, I think that's oneof those things.
In 15 minutes I can reallyunderstand what your problem is and
see if I have a resource I canhelp you with.
Sometimes it's free, sometimesit's a long term thing and you know,
or sometimes maybe Sam'sbetter fit, you know, so I don't
mind sending people to theright person.
Just, just ask.
That's what I'm asking you to do.
Just reach out now.

(01:10:42):
I love it.
So here's a question.
Have you ever thought aboutputting your, your trainings online
for the different, for all thedifferent manuals you take everybody
through?
Yeah, I do.
So we have.
Yeah, so we have.
So the virtual masterclass,it's all recorded sessions over four
weeks, but I do a live Q and Aeach Friday during that month.
So I don't do it in thesummertime because guys are a little

(01:11:04):
busy, can't get a good audience.
So we're going to kick thatback off again in September.
Number.
It's fairly low cost for whatit is because we are able to get
quite a few people.
It typically averages 20 to 30people and believe it or not, Only
a handful join live, but theones that do, it's almost, I almost
feel like it's one on oneconsulting sometimes.
Sure.
So they're able to get jobspecific questions and all that sort

(01:11:26):
of thing in where like if all30 people joined, we wouldn't be
able to go that level.
So.
But each, each week we addressany questions for that manual and
then each Monday we releasethe content for the next manual.
So.
Yeah, so that's probably the,the, the most popular of my virtual
classes.
Obviously I have the, thesystem process sales goal sort of

(01:11:50):
class that I teach that'slater in the year, typically November
time frame.
That's virtual as well.
And I actually teach codeclasses, which is fun in one aspect,
but also concerning in someother aspects.
Right.
Because it's amazing thequestions you get.
Which actually opens the door.
I get to talk to building officials.
I'm teaching a whole sessionnext Tuesday in Grafton.

(01:12:12):
It's the next town.
Over half of the state isgoing to.
Building officials are goingto be there learning about residential
system design.
Thank goodness.
I know, right?
Yeah.
And trust me, I'm telling themthe right things.
So.
So I do for contractors, I teach.
It's like an hour or 2, 20, 21code cycle and I usually kick that
off again probably around September.

(01:12:33):
Virtual class join online andthen you can watch the replay for
a month.
Beautiful, man.
Well, I love it.
Well, thanks for being on theshow, man.
It's time to land this planeand I'm so glad that we were able
to connect about this and I'mexcited about this.
Next month we'll be goingthrough leadership in H Vac and really
be able to talk a lot more indepth in our session about all of

(01:12:55):
the characteristics and traitsof leadership and how it applies
to, to family and life andbusiness and all the things.
So thanks for being on, man.
Any parting words, lastremarks, quotes, quips or insights
that you'd like to leaveeverybody with before we go?
No, I'm not that smart.
I think I want to say thanksfor what you're doing for everybody

(01:13:16):
too, Sam.
Providing this content,particularly the value you're bringing
for free, is amazing.
So keep it up.
I'm a listener myself and youknow, if you're listening to Sam,
I think you might like mycontent too.
Reach out.
I think if we can all deliverall of the things that are needed

(01:13:36):
at a reasonable cost in orderto have money for the mission, then
we're able to do what our, ourlife goals are.
So please keep it up.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
I You know, I know all thetechnical stuff.
I just don't like to train it.
So that's why I send people to.
To people like you.
There you go.
That's why I got into sales,because the rest of it was just like,

(01:13:57):
I can fix it.
I just don't want to.
I'll just sell them a new one.
There you go.
Sometimes you can fix it, butthere are also technicians that will
only fix it.
They won't sell you a new one.
So this is the other side ofthe coin, too.
It's got to be a good balancein there.
It has to be the right thingfor the homeowner.
And sometimes the right thingfor them is not always the right

(01:14:17):
thing for you or what youthink it should be.
And so learning that, that difference.
So.
Well, man, thanks for being on.
Well, definitely there's somethings that.
Some ideas I had while we'rejust talking today.
I'd love to.
To visit with you about.
And yeah, man, this has been agreat conversation.

(01:14:38):
I like jumping out of some of the.
The Giselle specific stuff fora minute and like, really looking
at things from a different perspective.
Perspectives help us all growbecause sometimes it just smacks
us in the face with our own reality.
And when we take that radicalresponsibility for our lives, we
are able to grow and becomebetter people, which is what we're

(01:15:00):
all about here at Close It Now.
So thanks for joining us andfor everybody out there, you know
how we end this.
You work to go be someoneworth buying from.
You've been listening to theClose it now podcast, our passion,
Our mission is to diveheadfirst into the transformative
movement that's reshaping thevery foundation of H Vac and home

(01:15:21):
improvement and at the sametime, covering fitness, nutrition,
relationships and personalgrowth, proving that we can indeed
have it all.
We hope you've enjoyed the show.
If you did, make sure to like,rate and review.
We'll be back soon, but in themeantime, find the website at Close
close it now.net find us onInstagram at thereal.

(01:15:44):
Close it now and on Facebookat Close It Now.
See you next time.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Crime Junkie

24/7 News: The Latest

Stuff You Should Know

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Leadership That Works: Chris Morin on Training Techs, Building Culture & Growing Teams in HVAC

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Crime Junkie

24/7 News: The Latest

Stuff You Should Know

All Episodes

Leadership That Works: Chris Morin on Training Techs, Building Culture & Growing Teams in HVAC

Crime Junkie