Karen Read Recap With Nick Rocco

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Dashi and the jam In Morning Showwith DJ Feign It's suns a big morning.
Sustain's number one for hip hop jammin ninety four or five. Hi,
everybody, good morning. Putting thepregnancy on hold. For Nick Rocco,
it's fine, Yeah, baby,can wait the amount of DMS I

(00:21):
always receive. Wait a second,what if you go into labor? What's
gonna happen? Nick Roco will remainon this show, whether I am here
or not, until we get averdict, until we find out is Karen
Reid gonna be found innocent or willshe be found guilty? An interesting week,
I would say in court, Nickjoins us because we had Michael Proctor

(00:45):
on the stand, which was flashy. Right, We're getting these text messages
and we're hearing horrific things that hesaid about Karen Reid. We're even getting
a reaction from Karen Reid while hereads some of these messages. She shook
her head at one point. Andthen you go into the forensics in the
DNA, which I want to covereverything, Nick, But I mean,
dare I say a little bit ofa snooze fest. In comparison, it

(01:07):
wasn't as flashy for people you know, But let's start there. This week
in court, Michael Proctor on thestand, the text messages, the relationship
with Kevin Albert, I'll let youstart there. Yeah, So basically,
we learned that Michael Proctor had wishedKaren Ree killed herself in a text message

(01:30):
four days after she was arraigned,in a text message to her sister,
to his sister, which she alsoagreed hopefully she does. So that rate
there is pretty sick and twisted thatand it shows how personal this has become
for them, that they want asuspect in a murder case to kill themselves,

(01:53):
which I mean, listen, I'venever wished death upon anybody, and
I don't think it's right and that, you know, it just kind of
goes to his character as we've seenhis other text messages, the way he
talks about her. So you know, we've we talked a lot about the
other text. I think that wasan important one to bring up. Yeah,
but we also learned that Julie Albert, which is Colin's mother, He

(02:20):
was looking for Julie to babysit hiskids. He has Julie Albert's personal cell
phone number saved in his cell phone, and he wants to say, you
know, all these are acquaintances.I mean, somebody who's gonna watch a
kid is I would hope it's moreof a more than an acquaintance, especially
if you're going to trust them towatch your little kids. Yeah, And

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as a mother and everybody on thisshow as a parent, we're not just
letting anybody watch our children. We'relet we're letting somebody watch our children that
we feel like it would be usin there watching our children. And either
way, if he has any connectionto any of the players that were at
thirty four, the fair view thatevening he shouldn't be on this case.

(03:02):
Absolutely, And Nick, a lotof people saw the headline and I don't
know if you want to give alittle bit more background to it. Michael
Procter was also working on the BrianWalsh case, correct, right, he
was the lead investigator. Funny enoughabout that the state is not questioning any
of Brian's Google searches, but they'retrying to make it a point to say

(03:24):
that Jen McKay didn't google hows longto die in the cold, because that
hurts their case. In the Walshcase, all the Google searches help help
the state. So what we didlearn was that not only did he have
a connection to Chris Julian Colin,but it also came out in Coote that
he had a good relationship with KevinAlbert. Now, the interesting thing about

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Kevin Albert is Brian's brother, BrianAlbert is homeowner at thirty four Fairview,
Right. So the whole reason whythey can't and police department had a reccused
themselves off of this case is becausethe conflict was Kevin Albert. Now you
have Michael Proctor texting with Kevin Albertto set up witness interviews, to set

(04:12):
up the room for these for thestate police to go in and interview these
witnesses. We also learned that they'remore than just working on a cold case
together, but they're drinking buddies,to a point where they went out drinking
together driving the cruiser and they wereso drunk that Kevin Albert actually left his

(04:33):
gun and badge in his vehicle andwent home. And these are the people
that have guns and badges that aresupposed to protect us, yet they're just
leaving their gun places. I mean, this is this is just not okay.
It really is not reasonable doubt people. By the way, six six,

(04:55):
one, seven, nine five.I think Nick has shown by now
more than willing to take your questions, even if you're on the opposing side.
If you have anything you want toask, Nico ahead and call right
now. Let's move on to thecell towers and the pinging, because this
morning on the news, the wayit was presented to me was number one
that Karen had called John O'Keeffe's phonefifty three times between what was it Nick,

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the hours of midnight and six amtwelve thirty two. Yeah, in
the morning. Let me tell yousomething that part to me and I said
this this morning, that doesn't makeme feel weird in a sense of oh
my god, Ugh, she definitelydid it. She's calling him fifty three
times. What is this to coverit up? That's to me a concerned

(05:43):
girlfriend? Yeah, Like I droppedyou off. You told me you were
going to come back outside give methe game plan. You didn't, so
I left. Where the hell areyou because now you're pissing me off.
You're drinking. I know you're drunk. Why are you not home? Why
am I waking up with that?What's going on? I to me that's
concern. Well, the fifty threeis a lot, but I can specifically
think of a night where the firemanwas out well passed when he said he

(06:05):
was gonna be and I was,I was worried that something bad happened.
If my wife goes out tonight andshe doesn't come home, I'm calling her
fifty three times because I'm concerned thatsomething has happened. Perc. Yeah,
I mean, you guys nailed itright on the head there, and like
I was, like I said earlier, we're gonna hear voicemails from Karen read
that she left on John to homebecause she was pissed. She he kind

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of left her out to dry outside, didn't didn't let her know what was
going on. So now you know, you had that Aruba incident where he
was downstairs with a girl till threein the morning. She comes down stairs.
Well she's upstairs with the kid,and she's like, what the hell
is going on here? Similar situationin a way where she goes in the
house, leaves her hanging. Soshe called, you know, I hate

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you, Why what are you doing? Why are you doing this again?
So we're gonna hear voicemails but atthe same time, words don't kill people.
Okay. The reason why they're gonnaplay these voicemails is to try to
show some motive that she was madat him. But if you just kill
somebody, you're not gonna call themand tell them how much you hate them
and you and this and that you'regonna call them with a loving voiceman be

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like, you know, I can'twait to see you when you get home.
I'll see you soon. You're notgonnaciminate yourself. Why are you gonna
add fuel to the fire? Allright, let's talk to cell phone tower
pings, because again I was kindof under this, under the understanding that
there was a cell phone tower pingat thirty four Fairview Road before Karen would

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have got to Jen mccabs, becauseremember I learned that through Nick. I
thought, guys that Karen woke upin the middle of the night, No
John and is like, oh mygod, drives right to thirty four fair
View. That's not, in facthow it happened. So why don't we
start out with that the pattern Karen. Let's start Karen wakes up, John
O'Keefe's not there, Where does shego? And then then let's match it

(07:53):
to the cell phone towers. Allright, So well, let's start in
the early mornings. While she dropssewn off. There are two towers that
are near thirty four Fear of YouRoad that ping her phone around twelve thirty.
So those two towers pinged her phonewhile she was at thirty four Fear
of You but the tower that's nearJen McCabe's house did not ping her phone.

(08:16):
Okay, so she goes back toJohn's house. The next morning,
she leaves the house. Time outwhere is John's house? Is he in
Canton as well? Isn't? Yeah, he's in Canton, Yep, he's
not. He's not far from thewaterfall box. Okay, so she leaves
John's house. The waterfall tower pingsher phone. Then the next step is
we have the temple that picks hervehicle up at five eighteen, and then

(08:39):
at five twenty, the cell towernear Jen McCabe's house pings her cell phone.
At this point, at five twenty, there is no cell phone ping
from the two towers at thirty fournear thirty four Fear of You Road.
So if she had gone near thatarea or near that house before she went
to Jen mccab's house, those twocell phone towers were gonna ping her cell

(09:03):
phone, but they did not.So so then after after the cell phone
paying at five twenty in the morningfrom Jen McCabe, she then she then
goes back to John's house where sheis with Kerry and Jen. Then they
go to thirty four Fear of YouRoad and then her phone pings off those
two towers at like six or threein the morning. So by the by

(09:26):
Brian Tully kind of putting this wholemap together, it didn't really prove anything
for the prosecution. It actually provedthat Karen didn't go there in the early
hours before she went to Jen mccave'shouse. Is that why the defense didn't
cross examine? Do you think theycrossed they cross examined Brian Tully. Yeah,

(09:48):
So one of the things, oneof the points that he made that
Alan Jackson made was from uh arcone in Arc two of the towers,
there was a travel distance of pointone one to five miles traveled in the
time of point zero zero zero four. So that would have hadd to me
that that her phone traveled one hundredand thirty five miles per hour from Arc

(10:13):
one to RC two physically impossible.It didn't happen fast and furious, I
mean esus so as far as thosecell towers listen, it was confusing.
And anytime there's confusion in the courtroom of that benefits the defense because if
the jury doesn't know what you're talkingabout, they're not going to consider it,

(10:33):
you know what I mean. Imean, listen. It was confusing
to me because again I was somebodythat thought that she woke up and went
right to thirty four a fair ofyou, which is not what happened.
She went to google Searcher's house first, right, And that's what a lot
of the people on the other sidehave been saying for a long time.
Why did you go to thirty fourfee of you road before? You know?
When you when you got up?And this just proved she didn't go

(10:54):
there. Interesting, all right?So, like I said, a lot
of DNA talk as well forensic analysts. Let's start with that piece of hair.
And we have discussed this before.You've brought this up to our attention
a couple times. But what didwe learn in CORE about that piece of
hair that was on the tail light? So the piece of hair was on

(11:15):
the bumper it got You know,I had said this before it got sent
to the State Please Crime Lab,they said no human DNA. Then it
got sent over to body Labs,which then they said they couldn't even sample
it. So then they wanted todo the mitochondrial test, which ultimately destroys
the hair, which they came tothe conclusion that you cannot exclude John O'Keeffe

(11:37):
for being a match for this hair. So let's let's just say it is
John's hair, right, And aquestion I got asked the other day was,
well, how did that hair getthere? Where did they get that
piece of hair to place on thebumper? And my answer is this,
It's very simple. The same placethat they got the hair to send a
body lab to compare to the hairfound on the bumper? Where did they

(12:00):
get that hair? You know whatI mean? So does does that make
sense to you? All right?So they sent a piece of hair that
they found on the bumper to bodylabs to be tested. They needed something
to compare that hair to, sothey sent another piece of hair to body
labs to compare it to. Andwhere did that other hair come from?

(12:22):
Was that? Did they take thatfrom John's head. Where did they get
that piece of hair? So mostlikely wherever they got that piece of hair
is the same place they got thehair they found on the bumper. So
you're saying they probably took it offthe body, it came from John's head,
John's hat somewhere where they ever,they have to have had another piece

(12:45):
of hair to compare it. Yeah, right, you have to have an
original piece to say yes, thisis a match to that original piece.
So basically what they're saying is,essentially they can't rule out that it wasn't
John's hair. That's kind kind ofwhat the we're surmising here. It wasn't
like this is John's tear. Itwas like, hey, we can't rule
out that it's not exactly And that'spretty much all of the DNA. That's

(13:09):
what I was gonna say, becausethat's kind of how I interpreted the tail
light, the blood on the taillight. So again, I not one
hundred percent sure it was blood.I think it was just a swab of
the tail light, and that iswhere I'm gonna have to look into it
again. But so like I saidbefore, as far as the tail light
goes, it's no surprise to me. That John's DNA is on the vehicle,

(13:33):
on the tail light. I guaranteeyou, if they swiped the whole
vehicle, they're gonna find tail power. They're gonna find her his DNA everywhere.
But the more concerning thing is thereis two unknown males DNA's on that
tail light. Okay, when theytook the swab from his shirt, they
find the shirt they swabbed the bloodsample, they find three unknown parties DNA

(14:00):
on his swamp, on his shoe, this five unknown uh DNA's on it
and they're taking blood swabs. Sohow is all these DNAs mixed into his
blood? How? It's just thatthat is gonna be a very important thing
that the prosecution is gonna have toexplain that they didn't they let these experts

(14:22):
talk on the stand and and andbasically say hey, yeah, this is
a mixture. It's John, butthen there's also other people mixed in with
this. So you didn't hit AdamLalley say well who are they? And
the reason why he didn't say thatis because the state police, the can't
and police, nobody was, nobodyelse got investigated into this. That there,

(14:43):
they let the ball drop on this. It was just poor police work.
If they had known this stuff before, maybe they wouldn't have arrested Karen
read right away and try to figureout whose DNA is all over her car
and whose DNA is all over John'sclothes and blood samples. So we didn't
really learn much. Mean, yeah, we learned John's DNA's on his clothes.
Pretty obvious, right, I mean, everybody's DNA is going to be

(15:05):
on their clothes. I gotta justgot a DM from Rachel j And maybe
you can you know, I honestlydon't really know what she's talking about,
but maybe you can give a littlecontext to it. She said, Can
you ask Nick if he thinks KerryRoberts could have potentially taken the hair in
the hospital while she was taking offthe necklace. I thought she was so
dramatic about it, so assuming thiswas the first person, this nurse that

(15:31):
saw John's body at the hospital.No, Kerry Roberts is Kerry Roberts was
one of John's friends, she testified. Listen to be honest, I can't
say who, when, where,what or how they got this hair.
But a hair was sent to BodieLabs for for a basically comparison of the

(15:54):
hair found on the bumper. Theygot it from somewhere, and it obviously
it came from John Teed at somepoint, whether it could from the hat,
it came from Karen's vehicle. Itcame from somewhere for them to be
able to send that out. Soyou know, there's gonna be a lot
of theories of where they got thehair, and then you're gonna have the
other side say, well, itwasn't planted there. But anybody that has

(16:15):
common sense knows that a piece ofhair that's not attached to the vehicle is
not going to stay on the vehicle. Especially Adam Lalley made sure everyone knows
how bad of a snowstorm it wasand how windy it was, so you
can't have it both ways. Andalso seeing Alan Jackson after court, that
man seems to have little to noworry about this hair, Like it was

(16:36):
almost like laughable to him the hair. Nick, if you're cool, let's
go to Keana and dairy. Keanahas a question for you, Kiana,
good morning, Hi, how areyou guys? You're talking to Nick ahead
bab so, Nick, I fullyagree with you. I read is being
framed. Now my question is ifhe is found not DLC, do you

(16:59):
think that they are going to tryto prosecute the McKay, the Albert,
all of them. See all right, Ken, thanks for the call,
Nick. I mean, that's kindof more of an opinion based question.
But so if Michael Morrissey is stillin office and Michael Morrissey is the district
attorney, then we're not going tosee anything happen. But like I had

(17:21):
told one of the callers last episode, is the federal government and the FBI
and the Public Corruption Unit, they'restill investigating this case, so they are
gonna at the end of this there'sno way we're not going to see indictments.
So I believe Michael Morrissey is goingto be indicted in a few state
troopers. When they take Michael Morrisseyout, they're going to have to replace

(17:42):
the district attorney. So when theyreplace the district attorney, then the Feds
could say, hey, well thisis what we have. We want you
to prosecute these people. Unless theFeds have enough information that they can just
turn it into a federal case andgo after I mean, we know they
can go after the three that werepolice officers Michael Proctor, Brian Higgins,

(18:03):
and Brian Albert because that falls intopublic corruption. But as far as Jen
McCabe goes, you know, inthis Google search, I'm not sure how
that will play out. I'm notsure if the state would have to go
after her or if that falls intothe public corruption case. I mean,
we'll just have to wait and see. Let me ask you, because I
know a lot of people are havingtrouble wrapping their heads around this. Michael
Proctor still wakes up every day andgoes to work, correct he does.

(18:27):
I believe he was just put ona suspicious death of a woman found in
her home in Weymouth. I believehe is the lead investigator on that case.
But I mean, listen, afterthe stuff we heard in court,
he is not going to be acredible witness for the State of Massachusetts ever

(18:47):
again. So he's going to kindof be useless to the DA's office.
You know, if he's going tokeep investigating these cases, he's going to
have to testify in court, andevery lawyer that has to go up against
him is going to crucify him andwant to see all of his personal text
messages, are going to want tosee everything. There one talking about Karen
Reid's leaky pooh yeah, I meanreally that's what he would have to say.

(19:11):
Uh, what are we expecting incourt today? So today there's going
to be more experts as far asthe defend I mean sorry, as far
as the prosecution. They still haveto call the medical examiner. They still
have to call their experts from Celebright, who's going to try to defunk the
Google search. You know, wemay see a few more police officers.

(19:36):
What about the voicemails. Do wethink we'll hear some of those today?
I don't. I mean so possiblywe could, But the thing is is
there they can't just play the voicemailsmost so, most likely the voicemails are
going to come through Nicholas Guerino fromthe State Police, who is their forensic
data expert. He's also the manthat completely missed Jen McCabe's Google search in

(20:00):
deleted calls. It was the defenseexperts that actually found those, So he
that's how they're going to probably getthose voicemails and will be from him.
He's probably going to testify today.Then you're going to have one of the
experts for the defense that the prosecutionwas trying to file emotion and say we
don't want her to testify. Thereis going to be a war dare done

(20:23):
on her, so that that potentiallycould be today as well. So it
may be again, I think allthe excitement, as far as proper and
all that has has gone. Butnow now we're getting into the data.
So like I said, I thinkthe next the next two biggest ones is
going to be the medical examiner andNicholas Guarino, and then we'll have the

(20:48):
celebrate experts come in and tell usyou know why the Google search didn't happen.
And I don't think we're going tosee any We might see a cross
examination on one or two of them, but I think the defense just wants
to get the prosecution's case over.They want to stop their case four to
five days and then potentially have averdict not next week, but the week
after that. I was gonna askyou last question. We're hearing that prosecution

(21:12):
is expected to rest as early asnext week. Are you hearing that too?
Yeah? And I think the reasonwhy the defense isn't questioning any of
their any of their experts, isbecause they just want them to be They
want them. They don't want thisto go any further. They just want
them to finish, you know,So they're hoping. They were hoping for
today to be done so they couldstop their case on Monday. But worst

(21:33):
case scenario, Adam Lalley drags thisout into Monday, the defense, you
know, does what they got todo next week and then uh, and
then we'll have a we'll have averdict. Crazy to think we might be
hearing from you about a verdict likebefore July fourth, literally before I mean
it definitely should be before July fourth. Wow, So wild all right?

(21:56):
Nick? Well, uh, youknow you know the way this role if
you listen to the show and you'resomebody who's been following this case through us
and through Nick. I mean again, we've never hidden the fact that Nick
is on the side that he ison. And I think the main thing
here is that you are always morethan willing to take the opposition answer questions,

(22:18):
but you have always stuck by thefact that you believe Reid is framed.
And I know you're a busy man. I know you're in and out
of court. I know you havean actual job to We appreciate you always
being able to stop down for us. We will talk to you on Tuesday
of next week, and I wantto stress we will talk to Nick.
Whether Ashley is with child, inthe hospital, whatever it takes that the
Fellows will handle it. Nick willnot be going anywhere until we get a

(22:41):
verdict. Yes, I will behere, and I encourage people on the
other side to call in, butcall in with facts, please not Nick.
Have a great weekend. We'll talkto you on Tuesday. To guys.
Thanks, thanks, you know.To Nick's point, though, the
DNA stuff is boring and hard tounderstand at times, but I am still
hooked and reeling from the Proctor textmessages. He wrapped that case up in

(23:04):
sixteen hours. Here's the thing.I don't know. I didn't know what
other way to say it, butit's true. It's like when when you
have actual like people and you havethese players, and you have a Michael
Proctor on the stand reading his textmessages. That's that's good TV y.
You don't want to watch that.Now, when we have these forensic scientists
using will seven point eighty nine fourpercent, it's boring. It becomes boring
for people and hard to understand.Yeah, and if I'm hearing these text

(23:26):
mess that it's not important. No, it's very important, but it's not.
It's like salacious is the wrong wordto use. But having the text
I'm in, I'm like, ohmy god, investigation that he's the lead
investigator on another bird crase. No, it's how it is. It is.
It is mind blowing. If youmissed any of that, obviously,

(23:47):
we will be podcasting it Santi.You'll have it up on Instagram. And
as always, thank you to ourguy Nick Rocco for always, always,
always joining the show. We willhave him again next week on Tuesday and Friday morning