January 30, 2026 • 55 mins
Our guest, comedian Larry Dorsey, Jr., introduces us to Afrobeat innovator Fela Kuti.
We discuss how Kuti exported Pan-Africanism to the world through his music. We talk about his musical roots, his political activism and his *check notes* ... 27 wives???
Tell us about your first listen @AtFirstListenPodcast on Instagram!
Subscribe so you don't miss an episode!
(Episode 44.)
We discuss how Kuti exported Pan-Africanism to the world through his music. We talk about his musical roots, his political activism and his *check notes* ... 27 wives???
Tell us about your first listen @AtFirstListenPodcast on Instagram!
Subscribe so you don't miss an episode!
(Episode 44.)
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Welcome to at First Listen, the music podcast for people
who don't always get the hype but want to.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
I'm Andrew, I'm Dominie.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
And our guest today is comedian Larry Dorsey Jr. And
for his episode, Larry decided to introduce us introduce us
to the music of a Nigerian composer and afrobeat revolutionary,
Fella Kouti. How did I do pronouncing his name?
Speaker 4 (00:38):
I hear some people say Fela. I hear some people
say Fela.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
But because there's Bela Fleck oh and the fleck tones.
But he's a famous banjo player, Okay, probably more the
jam scene.
Speaker 4 (00:50):
It might be a tomato tomato type.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Yeah, yeah, I agree.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
I think it's like I don't any accents though on
his name.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
I feel like if you could just pronounce stuff in
the language that you're speaking, I don't think you have
to add but what names it is different.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
But then with like all those Celtic names.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
True, like oh no, but white people are.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Just like, don't worry about any of the letters.
Speaker 5 (01:14):
All right, Yeah it's swarts okay.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Because there's like Vietnamese words, and then like on the
other side, there's like all these Celtic words where it's
just like the letters mean.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Different, right, But Asian people are just like call me
Sarah like they don't. They don't even try to get
people to pronounce their name.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
So yeah, but not.
Speaker 4 (01:39):
In the Middle East and India though, I know it's
it's vague.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
That's true, That is true, cool Well. I wanted to
hear about why you chose this artist and a little
bit about.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
You, cool Well.
Speaker 5 (01:58):
I believe in epistemology, so in order for me to
speak on a subject or have an opinion, I have
to do the proper research and background.
Speaker 4 (02:06):
So to give myself, you know, a.
Speaker 5 (02:08):
Little bit of ethos, pathos, logos, and my credibility, I
would say that.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Sorry, just I know, I know what epistemology means. But
just in case Andrew needs an update.
Speaker 5 (02:20):
It's the theory of knowing and understanding, gotcha. So there's
different levels to it, you know. I always ask people,
you know, people, especially nowadays, they're so quick to talk
about things. But I'm like, have you spoken to experts?
Have you how many books have you read? Have you
taken college courses on this? Have you watched documentaries? Like people,
(02:41):
I've done my independent research that's not enough. You know,
there's so much biases nowadays with the dead Internet theory
and all these different types of things. You you what
you think is your independent research, you might not even.
Speaker 4 (02:54):
Know how to actually properly do research.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
So to take us back, like when did you first
hear Fela Cutie's music?
Speaker 4 (03:03):
Cool? And you're like, can let's get back to the music.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
We are going down the path here, we are slipping cool.
Did you learn about him the person or did you
hear the music first?
Speaker 5 (03:15):
I learned about him the person first. I watched the
documentary Music as a Weapon. I had no idea who
he was. And I have never heard of afrobeat at
that time either. And to what I was saying earlier,
you know, I went to college for music. I was
in an award winning Broadway play by lin Manuel Miranda.
I taught improv and performed music all over the world
(03:39):
in many different countries. I'm certified by the State of
California as an expert in hip hop music wow. And
I used I worked in iHeart radio for almost ten years,
and I used to work at music videos in my
early twenties, the major ones.
Speaker 4 (03:55):
I'm from San Francisco, California.
Speaker 5 (03:57):
So I've been exposed to so much music my whole life,
and I really consider myself an.
Speaker 4 (04:03):
Expert in it.
Speaker 5 (04:05):
I watched that documentary for with a woman that was
a longtime friends with benefits relationship.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
I was gonna ask you.
Speaker 4 (04:13):
But she's amazing. She's amazing, and yeah, it changed my life.
Speaker 5 (04:21):
At that time, I was already a fan of Bob Marley,
and when I watched Fela, I was like, Oh, he's
He's the real deal because Bob Marley was mainstream accessibility,
impalpable to all races, even though he was Black Power.
He was just like, yeah, one love or all, we
could all work in this together. He had, you know,
(04:42):
some revolutionary movements too, but Fayla was like, hey, we
kicked like Tupac were kicking in the Oh.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
I think the revolution was a little bit closer to
Fayla's everyday experience in Nigeria. So from what I understand
about him from cursory research, he is from a sort
of a a noble family in the in his particular
(05:08):
tribe in Nigeria. However, his father was a minister, a
Christian minister, his mother an Anglican Christian minister. His mother
was like a women's rights advocate in Nigeria, and so
Fela Kuti I guess grew up in Nigeria, then went
(05:29):
to school in England where he like studied jazz and
classical music, and then he went back to Nigeria and started,
you know, his music career.
Speaker 5 (05:39):
Yeah, and then's commune that.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
His Uti sly Stone like we're seeing.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
No, there's a there's definitely a through line something one
intense guy.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
In the sixties and seventies people were people were trying
the commune thing, I know, giving up on.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
The communist well jonestown after that is kind of like
all this various stuff. So I know, no y'all, are
y'all know the vibes are definitely different out.
Speaker 5 (06:10):
There on the and he that's actually what politicized Fela.
If y'all saw. He came to California and the Black
Panther movement. He fell in love with a Black panther
and she, you know, I know, the tyrannical. He became
woke because.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Of her classic story.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
And he was like, what if I did this but
like twenty seven more times?
Speaker 5 (06:36):
Yeah, yeah, so you know, he he's he's a global person.
You know he's not just someone who was in a
small A lot of times people don't get that exposure
to the world, and he did, and I think that
also influenced his perspective.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
The thing I love about your choice for this episode
is it is kind of right in line with what
I wanted the show to be like for my own
personal musical like exploration, Like I want guests to pick
the music for the show so that I listened to
stuff that I wouldn't get to otherwise. And here learn
(07:14):
about interesting people and interesting cultures. And like Africa is
just for a lot of us, we don't really know
anything about it. Yeah, like we know things about it,
but we don't what little am I.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Talking to do we don't know about Africa? I could
see the reals.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
How do I say you're right?
Speaker 2 (07:35):
You're right?
Speaker 5 (07:35):
As African Americans, we we weren't taught anything about.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
African Do you know even what your African roots are?
Speaker 4 (07:41):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (07:42):
I took a DNA test and I I'm twentieth generation
Nigerian through slavery.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Yeah, no, mine was like very much my whoever my
ancestors were, We're all around West Africa, Khana and Nigeria.
I was like I knew it was that roughly, and
at that point it's like, no, because your roots really
are My roots are in the United States, I think
of them. But then there is that doesn't mean that
(08:12):
I'm not connected, like culturally with with the global South
in general, but definitely with like West African struggle.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
Yeah. And then one of the things that surprised me
about Phili Kuti's music is how palatable it was. You know,
it it's not reggae, but like I have heard reggae
and ska before. That's sort of what it immediately evokes
to me. And then it's like, but there's way more
jazz in this.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
I really think we can't imagine a world without his
influence because I think it's it was not palatable to
a lot of people at the time.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
It seems like it was like we don't want.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
To hear this to some of the more established like
trends when he was first starting out. And the reason
it is palatable is because of his influence and because
these are sounds that we're used to hearing.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
I think I understood that he has He's a bit
of a political figure, so I thought that the political
themes would be more what the music was built around.
But it seems like he wove his his political ideology
around the music. Yeah, you know, the music and his
(09:40):
thirty or forty piece band was like a statement in
and of itself. And then he decided to use you know,
the elements of like subtexts that big band and this
strange music as a way to talk to people about
human rights. And one of his colonization and.
Speaker 5 (10:00):
One of his biggest influences is James Brown, right, if
not the biggest influence, you know, besides African music and whatever.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
And when you understand that he was someone who was
educated in the West, it becomes it really puts the
context on all of his music where it's like this,
this didn't necessarily originate in Nigeria. He was a Nigerian
person influenced by funk and R and B and jazz
(10:28):
who went back to Nigeria and started marrying those things together.
Speaker 5 (10:32):
Yeah, and then you could one could argue and say
that funk and R and B and jazz, as I'm
a strong African American, you know, advocate as like that
we're our own ethnic identity. But one could say that throughout,
you know, our ancestry, you know, through the Negro spirituals
and all that, like that was a part of.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
It's like a big circle, yeah, because you.
Speaker 5 (10:53):
Know it just and you know, you know what's crazy
about it too, when you're you're talking about like how political.
Speaker 4 (10:59):
He was like, I'm listening to this podcast. It just
came out.
Speaker 5 (11:03):
If y'are listening to Higher Learning is an audible originals.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
To police, stop recommending other.
Speaker 5 (11:13):
Talking at documentary Fear and No Man, it's called but
they said that Miles Davis and he got right, said
that Fella Afrobeats and fellow Cootie will be the future
of global music. That's crazy. Miles Davis is like, not
someone who's going to give people credit.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
No, I haven't ever heard him say anything.
Speaker 4 (11:34):
He's a cold cat. You know. I love him.
Speaker 5 (11:37):
He's top three favorite artists for me of all time.
And he said that. I was like, damn. And then
you know the Beatles are or Paul McCartney, they say,
like one of the most powerful experiences of their life,
they cried, and I'm just like, damn, Like you know
he and but nobody knows, like you said, like people
don't know about African history, people don't know about Fela
either it's just it's sad to me.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
Welcome back to at first listen, I'm Domanie. Yeah, we're
back with Larry Larry Doors. Is he talking about BELAKOUTI
afrobeats icon uh and we wanna we gotta get we
gotta get to talk about the music, of which there
(12:31):
is a lot. You sent us three songs that are.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
All about an hour and a half music.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
To me, it does I think is actually it speaks
a lot to his uh, his place and time and
just like what he was doing with music, because it
was they weren't they're not radio songs. So like if
you have a if you have a you know, an
LP or whatever you're not, you don't need to have
(13:03):
separate songs. You could just listen straight through and you
dance the whole time and there's no pause. But like
if you want it to be palatable on the radio,
you would need it to be a few minutes long.
So I think that says a lot. You know, we
were just talking about him versus other artists who had
(13:24):
revolutionary ideas that the way that he wasn't interested in
becoming mainstream in that way.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
But yeah, tell what do you have to do?
Speaker 4 (13:36):
I was gonna say.
Speaker 5 (13:38):
He would also never play a song again after it
was on record. I think possibly on his like European
when he's touring, he probably played the hits for people
people wanted it. But at the Shrine, his home base.
Once the song got put on wax, it was cooked
no more.
Speaker 4 (13:57):
Isn't that crazy?
Speaker 2 (13:58):
It is crazy?
Speaker 1 (13:59):
It is which that you know comes from the Also
the jazz influences.
Speaker 5 (14:04):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, like Coltrane is just that you're
exploring an infinite improvisation is eternal.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
Yeah, that also explains why you wanted to keep it
going for twenty or thirty minutes, like I'm never gonna
hear this again.
Speaker 4 (14:17):
I like it.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
True.
Speaker 5 (14:19):
It's a zone you know, when you know we're at
a point now in history. Especially me being from California,
I have like a I'm used to being having a
balance with nature, and in New York there's just this
bombardment of stimulation, especially with the phones as well. This
kind of music gives you a moment to breathe, you know,
where you don't have any words, you don't have anything.
(14:40):
You could just kind of get into a zone and
for moments to think. There must be moments where you think, No,
don't think at all, And I think that gives you
a chance for your brain to breathe.
Speaker 3 (14:50):
Yeah, it is is It is meditative in a way.
Speaker 4 (14:53):
It is.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
One of the things I wanted to ask you is like,
and maybe I'll play some like eclips or people know
what we're talking about, and then we'll get into this.
But I want to talk about what time and place
are you listening to Philipkudu's music and what is your
general like state of mind during it? So think about that.
(15:15):
Let me play just like a few seconds of Beast
of No Nation. This has I think this clip will
have vocals in it, but most of the tune is instrumental.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
I need my talk. That's not that game.
Speaker 4 (15:35):
Dosh them human rights.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
So that was Beast of No Nation. I would say
that's the final quarter of the song. And there's really
like structurally it's super interesting where it's kind of like
a groove with this heavy quarter note sort of pulse
to it, and then there's these syncopated horns uh and
then these like little like rhythmic sort of circular things
(16:05):
that the other percussion is doing, and it's it's amazing
to me as someone who generally enjoys songs that are long.
I like to kind of sit in something like being
in that band must have been really fun. But learning
that as someone who's not a practitioner of it seems
like it would be super difficult because there's all this
(16:25):
subtle stuff that I don't know if I really know
where it is, but I know that it's in there.
I know enough music to identify that something is going on,
and whether it is people reading from a page or
just following his lead, like as they're recording the song.
Speaker 5 (16:45):
I love what you just said because I just saw
a dolphin just swimming through the lid. Because you're threatening
in like, okay, I'm hearing all this stuff. It's touching me.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
And because it's like an A and a B sort
of a section, sort of section in the song, but
twenty eight minutes long. And as I'm sitting there, I'm like,
I'm still not bored of this. I'm kind of wondering
what he's gonna say next. I didn't expect the vocals
kind of surprising when they came in because it's like
nine minutes and it's just like Horn's drums, bass progression,
(17:19):
and then he's like hu Man right.
Speaker 5 (17:22):
And if you see footage of it, like what he's
running and playing like he would like play the sacks,
run over to the piano, grab something else.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
It's like what, No, it is crazy, just like all
this instrumental stuff and then credit just one name, like
he is just his name on all of this.
Speaker 4 (17:40):
I thought I always you would run it like James Brown.
You know, if y'all hear how James Brown used to
be real strict. No, yeah, do this, Oh you know what,
bring another person in. You're fired like he was. He
was strict with it stuff.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (17:52):
Have you heard how Boskia used to paint. He used
to play the same song on loop over and over
for hour.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
What's song?
Speaker 5 (18:01):
It was some classical song bolero or something like that
or something. I forgot what it was, but that's you.
You were asking me. When do I find myself listening
to it? That's when I find myself listening to him
when I want to get into the zone of creativity.
And there's a quote that says creativity is most fertile
in emptiness. And what his music for me creates this
(18:25):
time kind of like where time and space doesn't exist
and I could just kind of sit in in my
thoughts and try to try to It's like improv trying
to grab whatever I could to create.
Speaker 4 (18:35):
Whatever I'm gonna.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
Create is like you could dance to it for sure,
but it's not dance music. I don't think.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
I like, I think I disagree.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
I think it is dance music, but I think in
the way that like, uh, all like black music is
dance music, like and I think.
Speaker 4 (18:55):
That like that's technically yeah, I'm like.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
I'm because like I always say, think about this with.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
Yeah, I'm thinking about how like because what what do
you call it?
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Like for like just African drum syncopation?
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Well, yeah, I don't know. I don't know, but this
is what podcasts are for people who don't know things.
But anyway, basically documentary. Yeah, basically just like very classic
like African drumming. I think is like the roots of
(19:38):
all music and especially like but you can especially hear
it in like disco and house and music that is
more about the beat and the drums and stuff. So
I I really think it it. I think it is
like if you cut out all of the electronics and
(20:01):
everything of like dance music, I feel like you end
up with the heart beat.
Speaker 3 (20:06):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, Like that's what I'm talking about with
the pulse, like that boom boom that's in all of
these songs, and it's kind of around the same tempo,
but like what is dance house trance music? But it's
kind of stuff around that.
Speaker 4 (20:24):
And what does that mean spiritually too?
Speaker 5 (20:27):
You know in Africa, in ancient Africa, they used to
when people were sick.
Speaker 4 (20:30):
Music was a big part of that exactly.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
That's what I'm thinking about. And like, yeah, the dance,
because we're not even talking about the dance influences of
like African, especially West African dance, and how that influence
is basically the root of.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
All the idea of like a backbeat.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (20:48):
And Bob Marley he has a song too where he's like,
you know, you dance and you feel no pain?
Speaker 1 (20:54):
Yes, okay, So on that note, I want to talk
about this song Beast of No Nation, is about apartheid
South Africa, right, and which first of all, is speaks
to his Pan African identity. It's like not just Nigeria,
it's a struggle.
Speaker 5 (21:14):
And he was close friends with one of the I
wouldn't necessarily say the originators, but some people look at
him as the father of Pan Africanism, the first president
of Ghana, Kwame and Kruma, and he was there's pictures
of him, Basquiat and Kwame and Kruma in one picture
which is nuts.
Speaker 4 (21:33):
And Grace. What's the model's named, Grace.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
Oh, Grace Jones.
Speaker 4 (21:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
Yeah, So I'm just thinking about this idea of what
you what did you just say about dancing through the
pain or yeah, thinking about where we are right now
in history and how this contrast between like this is
(22:00):
fully I think party music, we're chilling, we're having a
good time, and also we're talking, we're massive.
Speaker 3 (22:08):
Yeah, the police could break down our door and arrest
is it anymore?
Speaker 2 (22:13):
And they will? They they did?
Speaker 4 (22:16):
You know?
Speaker 5 (22:16):
I think you know, I'm half Latino, right, or I
say Native American because my mom's indigenous, but culturally Latino, right,
she's immigrant. And it's it's so funny because beasts of
no nation?
Speaker 4 (22:29):
What does that mean? Now?
Speaker 5 (22:30):
For Latinos and ice in the States, right, It's like,
what nation are these people that people are calling them beasts?
People are calling them whatever you want to call them,
and they're not really are they?
Speaker 4 (22:43):
Are they from America?
Speaker 5 (22:44):
Are we going to go back where there was no borders,
where indigenous people could freely travel, before colonialization, before America
was established.
Speaker 4 (22:52):
Who are they to this land, you know? And are
they beast of no Nation?
Speaker 1 (22:58):
I think I have so many thoughts on that, but
I do I'm going to try to narrow it down
because I think that this the name Beasts of Nonation,
is already expressing so much because it I think it's
obviously it's saying what you're saying, but I but it's
also about I think the people in power, because right,
(23:18):
some of the lyrics are like your animals and human
skin and it I'm think it's talking about like how
these people, the colonizers of the people in power, have
no alliance truly to their people either, and how they
they also aren't really of like of the people.
Speaker 4 (23:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
Yeah, there's all these fascinating like contradictions when you read
about Phila's life, where he's this you know, Nigerian born
musician who's educated in the West. He goes back to
Nigeria becomes synonymous with African music and West African music,
while he's for the most part railing against the Nigerian
(24:00):
government and sort of exporting these like revolutionary ideas to
the world which are rejected in the country that he
is from.
Speaker 4 (24:14):
Isn't that crazy.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
It's so confusing though, because Okay, a lot of this
stuff is it's so hard because it's from like my
our perspective, like from twenty twenty six and in the US,
like all of these stories have been told to us
in different ways that are sanitized. And because from what
(24:39):
I've see, from what I've heard basically reading like Malcolm
X and just reading you know, Hugh and Newton, like
revolutionaries from the time that they that the revolutionary spirit
is way stronger in Africa, especially in West Africa, and
that they actually have a huge a lot of people
have a huge connection to you know, for him, American
(25:01):
brothers and sisters, and like it's we only know these
like little factoid moments in history. And it's probably I
think it's probably similar to how it is in the
US in most countries that there's a lot of different
people who think a lot of different things, and some
(25:23):
people are revolutionary, some people are you know, conservative, and
most people are somewhere in the middle.
Speaker 3 (25:31):
Yeah, that's interesting. The fallout of like the Christian imperialism
where like his father is a like a missionary basically,
and he does not really embody any Christian ideas ideals
as an adult. And then there's this sort of like
backlash where which almost leads them back to a nationalist
(25:57):
type of view where it's like, no, there are native
languages and traditions and tribes are what we should be doing,
but we're also speaking that in English to our colonizers.
Speaker 5 (26:14):
It's almost at as a point where we're just too
far gone, like there's certain things you can't decolonize, it's
too ingrained into society. It's you know, I've been to
(26:35):
thirty countries, so when when what you're saying about African
American influence. When I was in Australia, the Aborigines were like,
y'all gave us, you know, y'all gave us strength and power,
you know, just like how Malcolm X's influence Fela Kuti
so much. You know, you know, they were speaking English
to me though anywhere you go that it's you know,
people in the Amazon jungle they got cell phones. Now
(26:57):
it's it's you know, the logenists belief systems are going
is going to definitely take over, and who's going to
be more conservative. Who's going to be more revolutionary when
it comes down to it, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
I mean, even if you look at like now we
have like maga rappers, like maga white rappers and black
people too. I can't speak on that, but like it's it.
It doesn't matter like it it crosses. It is what
blackness is what people use to seem relevant, at least today,
(27:30):
and it seems like it's been like that for the
last one hundred or more years.
Speaker 5 (27:36):
I mean, you could go back to the Greek philosophers
getting their information from eat, you know, just go along
with what you were saying as well. I always tell
people the most revolutionary artists of all time musician is Fela,
you know, but that on a mainstream there's probably people
(27:57):
who are freaking crazy revolutionaries, but they didn't get their
music to that level. You know, I'm talking about someone
who got their music to that level. There's nobody in
history who did what he did, closest Bob Marley, and
he ended up getting shot for it.
Speaker 4 (28:10):
You know, Fela got his mom.
Speaker 5 (28:13):
He probably gonna spread that his mom got murdered by
the state, you know, and she was she started that,
you know, from sources I've recently heard she started the
women's right movement you know, around the world, like they
they a lot of Once she did it in Nigeria,
it spread to all these.
Speaker 4 (28:33):
Different countries once they heard about her, you know.
Speaker 5 (28:36):
And she was his best friend, she was his advisor everything,
and he's just from you know. That's what Also what
you said the contradictions when it comes to Fela is
like he's influenced heavily by like one of the most
greatest feminists of all time in Africa, and he had
twenty seven wives.
Speaker 3 (28:55):
Let's take a break and we'll get into that because
we are tapitely talking about that on affirst Listen. Welcome
back to a first listen. I'm Andrew, I'm Dominique, and
we're talking about Failakuti and his twenty seven wives.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
Okay, okay, Before we talk about that, we're going to
keep you guys waiting a little bit longer because what
you just said, I thought you just said was fascinating
about his mom being oh just about the revolutionary spirit
in Nigeria.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
And his success doing that.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
I just made me think that part of the reason
for that is because of the basically disorganization and corruption
in Nigeria from you know, the United States imperialism and
Western imperialism that they're always kind of blowing up any
sort of fascinating thing exactly. But in the US we
(29:56):
have a very organized government. They can make stuff happen
with us. They can they can sanitize every story. And
I'm just thinking about how how many revolutionaries, uh and
movements have been destroyed, wiped off the face of the
earth by the American by the CIA basically.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
And right now we're doing, you know, and how.
Speaker 4 (30:20):
Black Lives Matter isn't talked about.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
Anything, no, literally because they assassinated their characters and they
assassinated the people everybody, you know.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
And this is where you get because they're.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
So good at what they do, you start sounding like
a conspiracy theorist because it's like you don't hear about
this until way after it's like, oh, the guy who
created you know, energy out of nothing, he's dead, you know,
like it's like every Basically, I'm thinking part of the
reason I wonder if his success is because his government
(30:53):
didn't have the power of the organization to actually silenced him.
They tried, and they basically they they couldn't. And I
feel like if it was in the US, they would
have Oh for sure, he would not have.
Speaker 4 (31:05):
Died of Tupac. You know a lot of people don't.
Speaker 5 (31:09):
Tupac shot cops and got away with it, and people
would be like, he was murdered by this, He was
murdered by that.
Speaker 4 (31:12):
I'm like, police shoot people for no reason.
Speaker 5 (31:15):
If you shoot police and win the case, oh they
want that ass, you know what I mean, they gonna
find somewhere to get.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
You, right exactly. I mean obviously Martin Luther, King, Malcolm
X's famous examples. And it's just like they still people
don't talk like it's like everyone actually knows that, and
we still don't really talk about it.
Speaker 5 (31:34):
So and also to what you're saying, it's interesting because
is that also maybe a reason why Fela is not
more well known.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
In the US?
Speaker 4 (31:43):
All right?
Speaker 1 (31:43):
And in general, I would one hundred percent agree there, I.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
Would, yeah.
Speaker 5 (31:48):
And it's cool though in a way he's like that
last because everybody just loves those like underground artists and
then they blow up and they're no longer underground. Fela
is still one of those artists that's so underground but
at the same time so reputable that you know, you say,
it's kind of like a cool thing, like yeah, felah,
that's my like ooh, and then you get to you know,
and then you're.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
Like, how you're It's like your eyes are open. It's
it's like, also, there's just so many people in Africa
and the idea of pan Africanism is so powerful that
like I feel like it only recently have has afrobeats
(32:29):
really blown up in the US. And part of it
is because people, I think, just social media and like
Africans thriving and doing stuff that people are like, oh,
they've been doing stuff and now like for me personally
ready to like hear more of the what's what's actually
(32:51):
important in that culture.
Speaker 5 (32:52):
You know what's crazy is when I used to work
out high radio, I went to the program director and
I told him, I said, Hey, the future is reggae
thon an afro beat. We got to spin this more
on the hip hop station because I don't think we
have a big enough audience.
Speaker 4 (33:09):
Five years later, I'm spinning afro beat.
Speaker 5 (33:12):
I'm the one because he you know, he gave us
the thumbs up for a couple songs. I'm the one
putting it into the system, and I'm the one put
like getting afrobeat on the radio, and it happened to
be Berna Boy, who has a tattoo of Fella. His
mom was with a Fella's dancers, and he's heavily influenced. Whyman,
he's the one who won the Grammys and all that.
So I think, I think when the more globalized we
(33:38):
get with social media, the more people are going to
be exposed to these cool cultures that have so much
so off.
Speaker 3 (33:44):
And it's great to have a contemporary relevant artist like
Berna Boy who is kind of reminding people and sort
of digging this up for a new generation because we
talk about it all the time where it's like easy
to be paralyzed by the amount of music that we
have access to today. So to there is still like
(34:05):
I don't mean this in the negative context, but context,
but gatekeepers are like still kind of an important thing,
Like they still exist. You don't need them like maybe
you used to need them. It's not like an investment
to listen to music like it used to be. But
to have a modern artist, a young artist that is
(34:27):
turning people onto something from the seventies, you know, that's
really important for the lasting you know, viability of this music.
We did a blues episode a few months ago. I
was it BB King? Yeah, it was about the tribute album.
There's a tribute album coming out in successive months to
(34:48):
BB King. And one of the questions I asked Dominique was, like,
our young black people listening to the blues, I don't
really think that they are. Like this album that we
were discussing was put together by a white dude in
his forties, Joe Bonamassa, who's a great guitar player, great
ambassador of the blues music. But it's such a quintessentially
(35:09):
African style that I'm like, do African American people care
about it anymore? Is there anyone who's like telling them to?
Even it's sad?
Speaker 4 (35:20):
And the movie Soul was so beautiful to me because
of that. It was trying to, you know, use the
youth to.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
I was not a fan of that movie, but go on, no,
I thought it was so like the so actually racist.
They made the guy like turns into a dog like
ten minutes into the movie.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
Isn't that so? No he turns into some animal? No
he doesn't, I'm looking. I did not like that movie.
Speaker 4 (35:47):
I have not seen this way soul is Jamie Fox,
Tina Fey.
Speaker 2 (35:52):
It's the animated one, right.
Speaker 5 (35:53):
Yeah, he dies within ten minutes, but he turns into
a spirit. He doesn't turn into a dog.
Speaker 4 (35:58):
There, it's not I think you need to revisit this.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
I needsit.
Speaker 3 (36:07):
Like that.
Speaker 5 (36:09):
Wes Love is in it, you know, Q Tip is
in it. It's and it's about trying to get jazz,
like is jazz still relevant? You know?
Speaker 4 (36:18):
And it's it's really deep and it's based in New
York City. But you're right, and even.
Speaker 5 (36:23):
Hip hop now, hip hop is slowly fading. It's not
the number one music anymore. And I think a lot
of it has to do with the reason hip hop
was created in the first place.
Speaker 4 (36:33):
They took band out of.
Speaker 3 (36:35):
Music programs I talked to on this podcast. I talked
to Nile Rodgers about this, Yeah, and he's like even
for him, who grew up very poor in a bad neighborhood,
he also was like a sickly child. He still had
band in school, and then when he first heard hip hop,
he was like, number one, they're stealing my song? Why
(36:56):
are they doing this? And then he actually talked to
people who were like the Sugarhill Gang and like those
guys and he's like, oh, you guys didn't get to
learn an instrument in school, so you just decided to
play with your records and that's how you made this music. Okay,
well I get it an hour cool?
Speaker 5 (37:14):
Yeah, And you know, also the church right when black
people are moving away from the church, and that's where
a lot of music comes from. I think a lot
of live music. Yeah, I think that's a great question.
Do black people still listen to the blues? I was
lucky my dad's old school.
Speaker 4 (37:32):
You know.
Speaker 5 (37:32):
My dad's in the seventies, so I was raised on blues,
jazz motown. A lot of my friends didn't have dads,
or their dads were younger and they weren't they were
raised strictly off hip hop.
Speaker 4 (37:43):
I got I was. My dad exposed me to a
lot of beautiful music.
Speaker 5 (37:48):
It's sad. What you just said to me is just
so sad. Because Ken Burns, he has a documentary jazz.
Have y'all seen this?
Speaker 3 (37:56):
Saw a part of it.
Speaker 4 (37:57):
Yeah, it's like twenty seven hours or something like that.
Speaker 5 (37:59):
Is Me and my brother Binge watched it and it
was just it's black history. It's more than just jazz.
It's Negro spirituals, It's blues as it Lea comes to
hip hop.
Speaker 4 (38:08):
It's everything. I love being a Pan Africanist.
Speaker 5 (38:24):
I was a serious revolutionary for a long time until
I've seen how how when you get that deep, negative
things happened, and I stepped away. The pandemic gave me
a chance to step away. The George Floyd thing was
like one of the last things I was part of,
but I'm out of. Like Tupac, I think he represents
that transition of straight up activism into gangster street stuff because,
(38:50):
similar to Fela, his mom was a black panther, right Tupac,
and so he had that same spirit. But he also
you see the hopelessness. And as African American, I love
what we contributed to the world, and I love our people,
and I just want some I believe that.
Speaker 4 (39:09):
I believe that we just deserve so much more.
Speaker 1 (39:12):
Speaking of needing more, so, Jamie Fox's character turns into
a cat at the thirty seven minute mark and until
the one hour and twelve minute mark he is a
cat and Tina Fey inhabits his body.
Speaker 4 (39:29):
So watch it, though way I watched it.
Speaker 1 (39:34):
I watched it and I was like does this man
literally s been the whole movie as a cat, and
he does, and then the white lady gets to be
in the in the dude's body.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
I did not care for that.
Speaker 4 (39:43):
Yeah, that part.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
I was like, it always has to be that every time.
I'm just like anyway, getting if it.
Speaker 4 (39:50):
Would have been a black woman, would have been better.
Speaker 2 (39:52):
If he wouldn't have been a cat. Why did he
have to be an animal?
Speaker 1 (39:55):
Yeah, if we just had one movie where the black
protagonist doesn't turn into an a no.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
More, we will be I will be happy about that one.
Speaker 4 (40:04):
Would you think of Sinners?
Speaker 1 (40:06):
I mean, Sinners is great, but I'm talking about I'm
talking about Senators was fantastic. I'm talking about a Disney movie,
a kid's movie, a cartoon. We got Lion King, we
got the Frog Princess, we got That's it, and we
got Soul where he's a cat slash dead.
Speaker 5 (40:22):
Anyway, all I could think is Boon Dogs. But like
when it comes to cartoons, it's.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
Like Boon Dogs is not a kid's Yeah.
Speaker 4 (40:28):
No, bin Right now, I can't think of nothing, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
There isn't.
Speaker 1 (40:31):
I'm a fan of Disney musicals and stuff like that
for kids, and we that doesn't exist. They're always turned
into an animal.
Speaker 4 (40:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (40:40):
So anyways, want twenty seven wives?
Speaker 1 (40:45):
Yes, so do you want to you know, do you
want to talk a little bit about how about that?
Speaker 5 (40:54):
Well, I will say this as controversy as it is,
controversial as it is.
Speaker 4 (41:00):
They were all there by choice.
Speaker 1 (41:01):
Yes, okay, okay, okay, I'm gonna give a quick history
a round. We've talked about it before he was he
founded the shrine, right, this was like at it was
like his commune in Legos. Yeah, and they were all
it was very much free love, having a good time
(41:23):
community and then everyone was enjoying each other's bodies and.
Speaker 2 (41:31):
He was hot.
Speaker 1 (41:32):
We had great music going and basically it was a
polyamorous like community and which would have been more traditional
traditional for some groups right in in West Africa. And
he what I heard was that he married all of
(41:52):
these women so that they could have so that they
could get respect and like a trade.
Speaker 3 (42:01):
He was kind of a lightning rod, especially in Nigeria
for media criticism. There's a quote from his one of
his sons. I want to pronounce his name Sean, it's
but it's seu n Yeah.
Speaker 4 (42:12):
I think it's pronounced differently. Yeah, but I wouldn't really
know how to.
Speaker 3 (42:17):
H So he told I think this is a this
is aggregated on GhanaWeb dot com. So he he says that,
in order to preserve their honor and dignity, my dad
asked them if they would choose to be his bride
so nobody can call them names anymore. They all agreed
that was how the marriage happened. Because the media was
(42:39):
describing like his band members and like the singers and
dancers and people in his band as like prostitutes and
hookers and stuff. And he's like, well, if they're my wives,
then they you can't call them that.
Speaker 4 (42:51):
Yeah. Crazy.
Speaker 3 (42:54):
So there's another incident that we alluded to earlier in
nineteen seventy seven, and according to this, it was hundreds
of soldiers surrounded his communal home. This is I think
the year before the marriage, the twenty seven marriages. So
(43:14):
they burned his house to the ground and threw his
mom out of a window. They broke his hands and
beat him unconscious. His mom died of her injuries.
Speaker 2 (43:27):
Is this when he was arrested as well?
Speaker 4 (43:28):
He was arrested over one hundred times. Gotcha did like
three years in prison?
Speaker 3 (43:37):
I think so the the poly amory, poly polygyny, whatever
the word is about having.
Speaker 1 (43:46):
Polygamy is when it's multiple wives, polyamory is.
Speaker 3 (43:49):
Apparently that is sort of a tribal tradition in his
in his culture. So the other side to doing that
was a bit of an f you to Christian Nigerian
ruling class.
Speaker 4 (44:11):
Yeah, and you know, so he was it.
Speaker 3 (44:12):
Was sort of a statement, like a nationalist statement almost
in addition to being sort of practical in that it
changed how people could talk about him and his family
and I don't want.
Speaker 4 (44:24):
To absolve him from.
Speaker 3 (44:26):
He also was proudly, proudly misogynist.
Speaker 4 (44:30):
Yeah, I don't think he used that word. Did he
use that word?
Speaker 3 (44:33):
He was like that that word is great for me.
Speaker 4 (44:37):
Oh my.
Speaker 3 (44:38):
There's a bunch of quotes about how he's asked about misogyny.
He's like, you can use that word. That's fine with me.
Speaker 5 (44:44):
I mean, I think it might have been more of
like you, like, you can't categorize me when he would respond,
more so than him agreeing to it, but like I
was saying, you can't absolve him from some of his trespasses.
And I would hope that they that his mother, who
was his best friend would would be in his ear
a lot to stop.
Speaker 1 (45:04):
Him from doing but you know how women can be
with their so.
Speaker 3 (45:12):
Yeah, he did do this after his mom passed away. Okay, okay,
But there's also the other the other element of this
that I saw is there was apparently there were a
lot of scandals or it was even people doing it openly.
Were like these Christian Nigerian people in power who were
(45:32):
known to have numerous mistresses and children by those mistresses,
and it was just so common that he's also sort
of issuing a moral challenge like I'm not gonna I'm
not going to mess around on my marriage. I'm just
going to marry all the people that I'm having sex with.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (45:53):
I so it's like we're all doing the same thing.
But I'm you know, inviting sounds.
Speaker 4 (45:59):
Like you kind of want to have multiple wives.
Speaker 1 (46:02):
I saw his Luckily his wife doesn't listen to a podcast.
Speaker 3 (46:07):
We'll see. I saw one of his wives referred to
as his senior wife.
Speaker 5 (46:13):
Yeah, because he already besides the twenty seven, he already
had two women before that. He had his first wife
and then he had the woman from California who's the
black panther so he had so technically had twenty nine.
Speaker 3 (46:24):
He was just like, this is me, let's get married.
Speaker 4 (46:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (46:28):
No, I mean I think this is a much bigger conversation.
But again, there is so much to gain for like
the imperial powers to discredit him and to discredit revolutionaries
and to say, you know, we can't we can't listen
to anything that he said because of he was kind
(46:51):
of not a great husband.
Speaker 4 (46:53):
Martin Luther King, Marl white women. That's not proven the FBI.
Speaker 1 (46:57):
And Malcolm X also was a massage, like.
Speaker 4 (47:01):
They try to knock black they try to knock the
black man down. Exactly what.
Speaker 2 (47:06):
Exactly?
Speaker 1 (47:07):
No, And it's I just think that, like it is
something that is a big conversation right now, that because
misogyny is so toxic and dangerous in the world and
we're just starting to kind of figure that out as
a culture that it kind of gets, uh, it outweighs
(47:29):
the attention. Yeah, and I'm just like, yeah, this he
was maybe not a good like husband, you know what
I mean, I don't really like, I don't I think
that there's a big difference between being a kind of
a dick. I guess to like some people that you're
around and like all of the positives that someone can do.
Speaker 5 (47:54):
It's like it's similar to the founding fathers or whatever.
It's like their own slaves. You know, we could go
down through our history and that actually makes me is.
Speaker 2 (48:02):
Worse than having twenty seven wives.
Speaker 4 (48:04):
Though to me, it's like they twenty seven slaves exactly.
Speaker 1 (48:07):
The president right now, like they can all do anything
they want and then and it's like, no, I would
rather Trump be like a weird husband than to rape
a bunch of children and like, you know, do fascism.
Speaker 5 (48:21):
I think, not to that extent, but I think people
I admire are people with who aren't perfect, who have blemishes,
who have problems in their history, because that makes them
more human to me, exactly, it makes them more like
I could relate to them because I know that I'm
not perfect and with all humility, I've done things I'm
not proud of.
Speaker 4 (48:40):
I've cyb redemption whatever.
Speaker 5 (48:42):
And you know, to go back to what we were
talking about women, I believe women are so much more
powerful A lot of times also they try people try
to victimize women. Throughout history, There's been women who've done
great things about history. They have agency and without women,
there is no revolution. And similar to Fello Kuti's mom,
her revolution started with a bunch of women, and Fellow
(49:04):
was like holding her hand as a little kid watching
all these women like make movements and you know, dismantled governments.
And he did the same thing in his mom. He
had thirty women behind him as he started a revolution,
you know, and he in his heart he believed that
they were more capable than having thirty men behind him,
you know. So I think also in a way he
(49:26):
believed that women like me. I believe it is like
the spiritualness of women will save the world in the
future and has kept the world together this whole entire time,
you know, if you do out human existence, and it's.
Speaker 1 (49:39):
A part of that collectivist mindset that maybe some of
these men, famous men in history, they were more interested,
you know, not to generalize, you know, I you know,
I could be called a misinterest. I don't know, But
like men, some people want to get their name out
there as much as they want to make a change
(50:01):
in the world. They want their name to be remembered,
whereas some people will not be remembered because that wasn't
a part of their goal. They were out there building
community and doing the work and not expecting a reward
or recognition.
Speaker 4 (50:16):
That's deep.
Speaker 5 (50:18):
Well, ply him, he didn't care about being famous. And
like you were saying, there's no you couldn't put his
stuff on the radio. He was like, I'm not doing
that for this. You know, he gave all his money away,
all the money he made, he gave it away the
revolutionary practices organizations or whatever. So it's like, you know,
he wasn't trying to be People ask me that a
lot about myself, Like you know, you're trying to do this.
(50:39):
I'm like, I don't care about being famous. I just
want to do what I love and hopefully maybe I'll
get paid for it. But I really I'm more interested
in the art and connect the human connection or experience.
Speaker 1 (50:52):
Well that's a great place to start wrapping up, you know,
in honor of fellow Hudi. We have the national or
(51:13):
the general strike tomorrow or on a different day.
Speaker 2 (51:18):
You could cut this out if this comes out next week.
Speaker 4 (51:20):
See yeah, but.
Speaker 1 (51:23):
I think that like it is the time to be
looking to revolutionaries of history who have succeeded and something's
been silenced and others and you know, like you said,
he was arrested over one hundred times and that didn't
stop him. So I just I want to say, you know,
(51:46):
at First Listen says fuck ice, hell yeah, and that
was our first lesson. Tell us about yours at first
Listen podcasts on Instagram and Larry Yeah.
Speaker 4 (52:04):
My Instagram is Larry Dorsey Jr.
Speaker 5 (52:07):
The social media handles the same as the name, and
my final words will be reparations because we're on some
revolutionary thing. That's one thing I always talk about and
what you were saying earlier about where the black youth is.
I make music. It's a hobby. It's not something serious.
I started off writing poetry and being part of You
(52:28):
Speaks and all these organizations, and I make music. My
goal was to try to get the streets to listen
and then slowly transition my music into something more revolutionary.
In the process of doing that, who knows if I'll
get any listeners ever, but I love doing it. That's
my pastime. So it's yeah, thank you so much for
(52:48):
being here.
Speaker 1 (52:49):
Honored and also come to a Bright Citizens Brigade New
York for you see black you see Black History Month.
On February seventh, we're pulling out all the stops, so
you can celebrate early by getting your tickets and upright, citizens, Yeah,
(53:11):
are you.
Speaker 3 (53:12):
Going to be on that shower?
Speaker 4 (53:13):
No?
Speaker 5 (53:13):
Im on Saturdays. I do stand up comedy, so on
Saturdays I'm usually booked. But I'm on a house team
at UCB and I just got renewed for another season. Yeah,
so I'll be performing every second Monday of the month
for a year.
Speaker 4 (53:27):
I used to be on the sketch team.
Speaker 3 (53:28):
Yeah, we read the second Monday, does it? Okay? No,
that makes sense?
Speaker 1 (53:33):
All right, listeners. I hope you were taking notes because
there was.
Speaker 3 (53:36):
A lot of movies that was a more academic episode anything.
Having comedian Larry Dor sat this in that direction. But
here we are. All right, let's stop doing the podcast.
Speaker 5 (53:53):
By the way, I think you have amazing energy, dude,
Like it has been very a blessing to meet you.
Speaker 4 (53:58):
Man, I had no idea what to expect that you're
hella cool.
Speaker 3 (54:02):
Yeah, I'm I'm just trying to learn, just a person
trying to learn.
Speaker 4 (54:06):
Do Everything you said was so dope. I was like, damn,
you got all the information. Okay, I see you.
Speaker 2 (54:11):
This is the epilogue. The credits are.
Speaker 3 (54:15):
Well, thank you so much and we'll be back, maybe
not next week, maybe the week after the year just
started and we are pretty rusty, so uh, subscribe to
you don't miss an episode, and we'll be back in
your feed soon for AFS listening. Bye.
Welcome to at First Listen, the music podcast for people
who don't always get the hype but want to.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
I'm Andrew, I'm Dominie.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
And our guest today is comedian Larry Dorsey Jr. And
for his episode, Larry decided to introduce us introduce us
to the music of a Nigerian composer and afrobeat revolutionary,
Fella Kouti. How did I do pronouncing his name?
Speaker 4 (00:38):
I hear some people say Fela. I hear some people
say Fela.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
But because there's Bela Fleck oh and the fleck tones.
But he's a famous banjo player, Okay, probably more the
jam scene.
Speaker 4 (00:50):
It might be a tomato tomato type.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Yeah, yeah, I agree.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
I think it's like I don't any accents though on
his name.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
I feel like if you could just pronounce stuff in
the language that you're speaking, I don't think you have
to add but what names it is different.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
But then with like all those Celtic names.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
True, like oh no, but white people are.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Just like, don't worry about any of the letters.
Speaker 5 (01:14):
All right, Yeah it's swarts okay.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Because there's like Vietnamese words, and then like on the
other side, there's like all these Celtic words where it's
just like the letters mean.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Different, right, But Asian people are just like call me
Sarah like they don't. They don't even try to get
people to pronounce their name.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
So yeah, but not.
Speaker 4 (01:39):
In the Middle East and India though, I know it's
it's vague.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
That's true, That is true, cool Well. I wanted to
hear about why you chose this artist and a little
bit about.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
You, cool Well.
Speaker 5 (01:58):
I believe in epistemology, so in order for me to
speak on a subject or have an opinion, I have
to do the proper research and background.
Speaker 4 (02:06):
So to give myself, you know, a.
Speaker 5 (02:08):
Little bit of ethos, pathos, logos, and my credibility, I
would say that.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Sorry, just I know, I know what epistemology means. But
just in case Andrew needs an update.
Speaker 5 (02:20):
It's the theory of knowing and understanding, gotcha. So there's
different levels to it, you know. I always ask people,
you know, people, especially nowadays, they're so quick to talk
about things. But I'm like, have you spoken to experts?
Have you how many books have you read? Have you
taken college courses on this? Have you watched documentaries? Like people,
(02:41):
I've done my independent research that's not enough. You know,
there's so much biases nowadays with the dead Internet theory
and all these different types of things. You you what
you think is your independent research, you might not even.
Speaker 4 (02:54):
Know how to actually properly do research.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
So to take us back, like when did you first
hear Fela Cutie's music?
Speaker 4 (03:03):
Cool? And you're like, can let's get back to the music.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
We are going down the path here, we are slipping cool.
Did you learn about him the person or did you
hear the music first?
Speaker 5 (03:15):
I learned about him the person first. I watched the
documentary Music as a Weapon. I had no idea who
he was. And I have never heard of afrobeat at
that time either. And to what I was saying earlier,
you know, I went to college for music. I was
in an award winning Broadway play by lin Manuel Miranda.
I taught improv and performed music all over the world
(03:39):
in many different countries. I'm certified by the State of
California as an expert in hip hop music wow. And
I used I worked in iHeart radio for almost ten years,
and I used to work at music videos in my
early twenties, the major ones.
Speaker 4 (03:55):
I'm from San Francisco, California.
Speaker 5 (03:57):
So I've been exposed to so much music my whole life,
and I really consider myself an.
Speaker 4 (04:03):
Expert in it.
Speaker 5 (04:05):
I watched that documentary for with a woman that was
a longtime friends with benefits relationship.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
I was gonna ask you.
Speaker 4 (04:13):
But she's amazing. She's amazing, and yeah, it changed my life.
Speaker 5 (04:21):
At that time, I was already a fan of Bob Marley,
and when I watched Fela, I was like, Oh, he's
He's the real deal because Bob Marley was mainstream accessibility,
impalpable to all races, even though he was Black Power.
He was just like, yeah, one love or all, we
could all work in this together. He had, you know,
(04:42):
some revolutionary movements too, but Fayla was like, hey, we
kicked like Tupac were kicking in the Oh.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
I think the revolution was a little bit closer to
Fayla's everyday experience in Nigeria. So from what I understand
about him from cursory research, he is from a sort
of a a noble family in the in his particular
(05:08):
tribe in Nigeria. However, his father was a minister, a
Christian minister, his mother an Anglican Christian minister. His mother
was like a women's rights advocate in Nigeria, and so
Fela Kuti I guess grew up in Nigeria, then went
(05:29):
to school in England where he like studied jazz and
classical music, and then he went back to Nigeria and started,
you know, his music career.
Speaker 5 (05:39):
Yeah, and then's commune that.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
His Uti sly Stone like we're seeing.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
No, there's a there's definitely a through line something one
intense guy.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
In the sixties and seventies people were people were trying
the commune thing, I know, giving up on.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
The communist well jonestown after that is kind of like
all this various stuff. So I know, no y'all, are
y'all know the vibes are definitely different out.
Speaker 5 (06:10):
There on the and he that's actually what politicized Fela.
If y'all saw. He came to California and the Black
Panther movement. He fell in love with a Black panther
and she, you know, I know, the tyrannical. He became
woke because.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Of her classic story.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
And he was like, what if I did this but
like twenty seven more times?
Speaker 5 (06:36):
Yeah, yeah, so you know, he he's he's a global person.
You know he's not just someone who was in a
small A lot of times people don't get that exposure
to the world, and he did, and I think that
also influenced his perspective.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
The thing I love about your choice for this episode
is it is kind of right in line with what
I wanted the show to be like for my own
personal musical like exploration, Like I want guests to pick
the music for the show so that I listened to
stuff that I wouldn't get to otherwise. And here learn
(07:14):
about interesting people and interesting cultures. And like Africa is
just for a lot of us, we don't really know
anything about it. Yeah, like we know things about it,
but we don't what little am I.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Talking to do we don't know about Africa? I could
see the reals.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
How do I say you're right?
Speaker 2 (07:35):
You're right?
Speaker 5 (07:35):
As African Americans, we we weren't taught anything about.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
African Do you know even what your African roots are?
Speaker 4 (07:41):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (07:42):
I took a DNA test and I I'm twentieth generation
Nigerian through slavery.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Yeah, no, mine was like very much my whoever my
ancestors were, We're all around West Africa, Khana and Nigeria.
I was like I knew it was that roughly, and
at that point it's like, no, because your roots really
are My roots are in the United States, I think
of them. But then there is that doesn't mean that
(08:12):
I'm not connected, like culturally with with the global South
in general, but definitely with like West African struggle.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
Yeah. And then one of the things that surprised me
about Phili Kuti's music is how palatable it was. You know,
it it's not reggae, but like I have heard reggae
and ska before. That's sort of what it immediately evokes
to me. And then it's like, but there's way more
jazz in this.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
I really think we can't imagine a world without his
influence because I think it's it was not palatable to
a lot of people at the time.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
It seems like it was like we don't want.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
To hear this to some of the more established like
trends when he was first starting out. And the reason
it is palatable is because of his influence and because
these are sounds that we're used to hearing.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
I think I understood that he has He's a bit
of a political figure, so I thought that the political
themes would be more what the music was built around.
But it seems like he wove his his political ideology
around the music. Yeah, you know, the music and his
(09:40):
thirty or forty piece band was like a statement in
and of itself. And then he decided to use you know,
the elements of like subtexts that big band and this
strange music as a way to talk to people about
human rights. And one of his colonization and.
Speaker 5 (10:00):
One of his biggest influences is James Brown, right, if
not the biggest influence, you know, besides African music and whatever.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
And when you understand that he was someone who was
educated in the West, it becomes it really puts the
context on all of his music where it's like this,
this didn't necessarily originate in Nigeria. He was a Nigerian
person influenced by funk and R and B and jazz
(10:28):
who went back to Nigeria and started marrying those things together.
Speaker 5 (10:32):
Yeah, and then you could one could argue and say
that funk and R and B and jazz, as I'm
a strong African American, you know, advocate as like that
we're our own ethnic identity. But one could say that throughout,
you know, our ancestry, you know, through the Negro spirituals
and all that, like that was a part of.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
It's like a big circle, yeah, because you.
Speaker 5 (10:53):
Know it just and you know, you know what's crazy
about it too, when you're you're talking about like how political.
Speaker 4 (10:59):
He was like, I'm listening to this podcast. It just
came out.
Speaker 5 (11:03):
If y'are listening to Higher Learning is an audible originals.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
To police, stop recommending other.
Speaker 5 (11:13):
Talking at documentary Fear and No Man, it's called but
they said that Miles Davis and he got right, said
that Fella Afrobeats and fellow Cootie will be the future
of global music. That's crazy. Miles Davis is like, not
someone who's going to give people credit.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
No, I haven't ever heard him say anything.
Speaker 4 (11:34):
He's a cold cat. You know. I love him.
Speaker 5 (11:37):
He's top three favorite artists for me of all time.
And he said that. I was like, damn. And then
you know the Beatles are or Paul McCartney, they say,
like one of the most powerful experiences of their life,
they cried, and I'm just like, damn, Like you know
he and but nobody knows, like you said, like people
don't know about African history, people don't know about Fela
either it's just it's sad to me.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
Welcome back to at first listen, I'm Domanie. Yeah, we're
back with Larry Larry Doors. Is he talking about BELAKOUTI
afrobeats icon uh and we wanna we gotta get we
gotta get to talk about the music, of which there
(12:31):
is a lot. You sent us three songs that are.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
All about an hour and a half music.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
To me, it does I think is actually it speaks
a lot to his uh, his place and time and
just like what he was doing with music, because it
was they weren't they're not radio songs. So like if
you have a if you have a you know, an
LP or whatever you're not, you don't need to have
(13:03):
separate songs. You could just listen straight through and you
dance the whole time and there's no pause. But like
if you want it to be palatable on the radio,
you would need it to be a few minutes long.
So I think that says a lot. You know, we
were just talking about him versus other artists who had
(13:24):
revolutionary ideas that the way that he wasn't interested in
becoming mainstream in that way.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
But yeah, tell what do you have to do?
Speaker 4 (13:36):
I was gonna say.
Speaker 5 (13:38):
He would also never play a song again after it
was on record. I think possibly on his like European
when he's touring, he probably played the hits for people
people wanted it. But at the Shrine, his home base.
Once the song got put on wax, it was cooked
no more.
Speaker 4 (13:57):
Isn't that crazy?
Speaker 2 (13:58):
It is crazy?
Speaker 1 (13:59):
It is which that you know comes from the Also
the jazz influences.
Speaker 5 (14:04):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, like Coltrane is just that you're
exploring an infinite improvisation is eternal.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
Yeah, that also explains why you wanted to keep it
going for twenty or thirty minutes, like I'm never gonna
hear this again.
Speaker 4 (14:17):
I like it.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
True.
Speaker 5 (14:19):
It's a zone you know, when you know we're at
a point now in history. Especially me being from California,
I have like a I'm used to being having a
balance with nature, and in New York there's just this
bombardment of stimulation, especially with the phones as well. This
kind of music gives you a moment to breathe, you know,
where you don't have any words, you don't have anything.
(14:40):
You could just kind of get into a zone and
for moments to think. There must be moments where you think, No,
don't think at all, And I think that gives you
a chance for your brain to breathe.
Speaker 3 (14:50):
Yeah, it is is It is meditative in a way.
Speaker 4 (14:53):
It is.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
One of the things I wanted to ask you is like,
and maybe I'll play some like eclips or people know
what we're talking about, and then we'll get into this.
But I want to talk about what time and place
are you listening to Philipkudu's music and what is your
general like state of mind during it? So think about that.
(15:15):
Let me play just like a few seconds of Beast
of No Nation. This has I think this clip will
have vocals in it, but most of the tune is instrumental.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
I need my talk. That's not that game.
Speaker 4 (15:35):
Dosh them human rights.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
So that was Beast of No Nation. I would say
that's the final quarter of the song. And there's really
like structurally it's super interesting where it's kind of like
a groove with this heavy quarter note sort of pulse
to it, and then there's these syncopated horns uh and
then these like little like rhythmic sort of circular things
(16:05):
that the other percussion is doing, and it's it's amazing
to me as someone who generally enjoys songs that are long.
I like to kind of sit in something like being
in that band must have been really fun. But learning
that as someone who's not a practitioner of it seems
like it would be super difficult because there's all this
(16:25):
subtle stuff that I don't know if I really know
where it is, but I know that it's in there.
I know enough music to identify that something is going on,
and whether it is people reading from a page or
just following his lead, like as they're recording the song.
Speaker 5 (16:45):
I love what you just said because I just saw
a dolphin just swimming through the lid. Because you're threatening
in like, okay, I'm hearing all this stuff. It's touching me.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
And because it's like an A and a B sort
of a section, sort of section in the song, but
twenty eight minutes long. And as I'm sitting there, I'm like,
I'm still not bored of this. I'm kind of wondering
what he's gonna say next. I didn't expect the vocals
kind of surprising when they came in because it's like
nine minutes and it's just like Horn's drums, bass progression,
(17:19):
and then he's like hu Man right.
Speaker 5 (17:22):
And if you see footage of it, like what he's
running and playing like he would like play the sacks,
run over to the piano, grab something else.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
It's like what, No, it is crazy, just like all
this instrumental stuff and then credit just one name, like
he is just his name on all of this.
Speaker 4 (17:40):
I thought I always you would run it like James Brown.
You know, if y'all hear how James Brown used to
be real strict. No, yeah, do this, Oh you know what,
bring another person in. You're fired like he was. He
was strict with it stuff.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (17:52):
Have you heard how Boskia used to paint. He used
to play the same song on loop over and over
for hour.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
What's song?
Speaker 5 (18:01):
It was some classical song bolero or something like that
or something. I forgot what it was, but that's you.
You were asking me. When do I find myself listening
to it? That's when I find myself listening to him
when I want to get into the zone of creativity.
And there's a quote that says creativity is most fertile
in emptiness. And what his music for me creates this
(18:25):
time kind of like where time and space doesn't exist
and I could just kind of sit in in my
thoughts and try to try to It's like improv trying
to grab whatever I could to create.
Speaker 4 (18:35):
Whatever I'm gonna.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
Create is like you could dance to it for sure,
but it's not dance music. I don't think.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
I like, I think I disagree.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
I think it is dance music, but I think in
the way that like, uh, all like black music is
dance music, like and I think.
Speaker 4 (18:55):
That like that's technically yeah, I'm like.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
I'm because like I always say, think about this with.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
Yeah, I'm thinking about how like because what what do
you call it?
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Like for like just African drum syncopation?
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Well, yeah, I don't know. I don't know, but this
is what podcasts are for people who don't know things.
But anyway, basically documentary. Yeah, basically just like very classic
like African drumming. I think is like the roots of
(19:38):
all music and especially like but you can especially hear
it in like disco and house and music that is
more about the beat and the drums and stuff. So
I I really think it it. I think it is
like if you cut out all of the electronics and
(20:01):
everything of like dance music, I feel like you end
up with the heart beat.
Speaker 3 (20:06):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, Like that's what I'm talking about with
the pulse, like that boom boom that's in all of
these songs, and it's kind of around the same tempo,
but like what is dance house trance music? But it's
kind of stuff around that.
Speaker 4 (20:24):
And what does that mean spiritually too?
Speaker 5 (20:27):
You know in Africa, in ancient Africa, they used to
when people were sick.
Speaker 4 (20:30):
Music was a big part of that exactly.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
That's what I'm thinking about. And like, yeah, the dance,
because we're not even talking about the dance influences of
like African, especially West African dance, and how that influence
is basically the root of.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
All the idea of like a backbeat.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (20:48):
And Bob Marley he has a song too where he's like,
you know, you dance and you feel no pain?
Speaker 1 (20:54):
Yes, okay, So on that note, I want to talk
about this song Beast of No Nation, is about apartheid
South Africa, right, and which first of all, is speaks
to his Pan African identity. It's like not just Nigeria,
it's a struggle.
Speaker 5 (21:14):
And he was close friends with one of the I
wouldn't necessarily say the originators, but some people look at
him as the father of Pan Africanism, the first president
of Ghana, Kwame and Kruma, and he was there's pictures
of him, Basquiat and Kwame and Kruma in one picture
which is nuts.
Speaker 4 (21:33):
And Grace. What's the model's named, Grace.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
Oh, Grace Jones.
Speaker 4 (21:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
Yeah, So I'm just thinking about this idea of what
you what did you just say about dancing through the
pain or yeah, thinking about where we are right now
in history and how this contrast between like this is
(22:00):
fully I think party music, we're chilling, we're having a
good time, and also we're talking, we're massive.
Speaker 3 (22:08):
Yeah, the police could break down our door and arrest
is it anymore?
Speaker 2 (22:13):
And they will? They they did?
Speaker 4 (22:16):
You know?
Speaker 5 (22:16):
I think you know, I'm half Latino, right, or I
say Native American because my mom's indigenous, but culturally Latino, right,
she's immigrant. And it's it's so funny because beasts of
no nation?
Speaker 4 (22:29):
What does that mean? Now?
Speaker 5 (22:30):
For Latinos and ice in the States, right, It's like,
what nation are these people that people are calling them beasts?
People are calling them whatever you want to call them,
and they're not really are they?
Speaker 4 (22:43):
Are they from America?
Speaker 5 (22:44):
Are we going to go back where there was no borders,
where indigenous people could freely travel, before colonialization, before America
was established.
Speaker 4 (22:52):
Who are they to this land, you know? And are
they beast of no Nation?
Speaker 1 (22:58):
I think I have so many thoughts on that, but
I do I'm going to try to narrow it down
because I think that this the name Beasts of Nonation,
is already expressing so much because it I think it's
obviously it's saying what you're saying, but I but it's
also about I think the people in power, because right,
(23:18):
some of the lyrics are like your animals and human
skin and it I'm think it's talking about like how
these people, the colonizers of the people in power, have
no alliance truly to their people either, and how they
they also aren't really of like of the people.
Speaker 4 (23:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
Yeah, there's all these fascinating like contradictions when you read
about Phila's life, where he's this you know, Nigerian born
musician who's educated in the West. He goes back to
Nigeria becomes synonymous with African music and West African music,
while he's for the most part railing against the Nigerian
(24:00):
government and sort of exporting these like revolutionary ideas to
the world which are rejected in the country that he
is from.
Speaker 4 (24:14):
Isn't that crazy.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
It's so confusing though, because Okay, a lot of this
stuff is it's so hard because it's from like my
our perspective, like from twenty twenty six and in the US,
like all of these stories have been told to us
in different ways that are sanitized. And because from what
(24:39):
I've see, from what I've heard basically reading like Malcolm
X and just reading you know, Hugh and Newton, like
revolutionaries from the time that they that the revolutionary spirit
is way stronger in Africa, especially in West Africa, and
that they actually have a huge a lot of people
have a huge connection to you know, for him, American
(25:01):
brothers and sisters, and like it's we only know these
like little factoid moments in history. And it's probably I
think it's probably similar to how it is in the
US in most countries that there's a lot of different
people who think a lot of different things, and some
(25:23):
people are revolutionary, some people are you know, conservative, and
most people are somewhere in the middle.
Speaker 3 (25:31):
Yeah, that's interesting. The fallout of like the Christian imperialism
where like his father is a like a missionary basically,
and he does not really embody any Christian ideas ideals
as an adult. And then there's this sort of like
backlash where which almost leads them back to a nationalist
(25:57):
type of view where it's like, no, there are native
languages and traditions and tribes are what we should be doing,
but we're also speaking that in English to our colonizers.
Speaker 5 (26:14):
It's almost at as a point where we're just too
far gone, like there's certain things you can't decolonize, it's
too ingrained into society. It's you know, I've been to
(26:35):
thirty countries, so when when what you're saying about African
American influence. When I was in Australia, the Aborigines were like,
y'all gave us, you know, y'all gave us strength and power,
you know, just like how Malcolm X's influence Fela Kuti
so much. You know, you know, they were speaking English
to me though anywhere you go that it's you know,
people in the Amazon jungle they got cell phones. Now
(26:57):
it's it's you know, the logenists belief systems are going
is going to definitely take over, and who's going to
be more conservative. Who's going to be more revolutionary when
it comes down to it, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
I mean, even if you look at like now we
have like maga rappers, like maga white rappers and black
people too. I can't speak on that, but like it's it.
It doesn't matter like it it crosses. It is what
blackness is what people use to seem relevant, at least today,
(27:30):
and it seems like it's been like that for the
last one hundred or more years.
Speaker 5 (27:36):
I mean, you could go back to the Greek philosophers
getting their information from eat, you know, just go along
with what you were saying as well. I always tell
people the most revolutionary artists of all time musician is Fela,
you know, but that on a mainstream there's probably people
(27:57):
who are freaking crazy revolutionaries, but they didn't get their
music to that level. You know, I'm talking about someone
who got their music to that level. There's nobody in
history who did what he did, closest Bob Marley, and
he ended up getting shot for it.
Speaker 4 (28:10):
You know, Fela got his mom.
Speaker 5 (28:13):
He probably gonna spread that his mom got murdered by
the state, you know, and she was she started that,
you know, from sources I've recently heard she started the
women's right movement you know, around the world, like they
they a lot of Once she did it in Nigeria,
it spread to all these.
Speaker 4 (28:33):
Different countries once they heard about her, you know.
Speaker 5 (28:36):
And she was his best friend, she was his advisor everything,
and he's just from you know. That's what Also what
you said the contradictions when it comes to Fela is
like he's influenced heavily by like one of the most
greatest feminists of all time in Africa, and he had
twenty seven wives.
Speaker 3 (28:55):
Let's take a break and we'll get into that because
we are tapitely talking about that on affirst Listen. Welcome
back to a first listen. I'm Andrew, I'm Dominique, and
we're talking about Failakuti and his twenty seven wives.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
Okay, okay, Before we talk about that, we're going to
keep you guys waiting a little bit longer because what
you just said, I thought you just said was fascinating
about his mom being oh just about the revolutionary spirit
in Nigeria.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
And his success doing that.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
I just made me think that part of the reason
for that is because of the basically disorganization and corruption
in Nigeria from you know, the United States imperialism and
Western imperialism that they're always kind of blowing up any
sort of fascinating thing exactly. But in the US we
(29:56):
have a very organized government. They can make stuff happen
with us. They can they can sanitize every story. And
I'm just thinking about how how many revolutionaries, uh and
movements have been destroyed, wiped off the face of the
earth by the American by the CIA basically.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
And right now we're doing, you know, and how.
Speaker 4 (30:20):
Black Lives Matter isn't talked about.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
Anything, no, literally because they assassinated their characters and they
assassinated the people everybody, you know.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
And this is where you get because they're.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
So good at what they do, you start sounding like
a conspiracy theorist because it's like you don't hear about
this until way after it's like, oh, the guy who
created you know, energy out of nothing, he's dead, you know,
like it's like every Basically, I'm thinking part of the
reason I wonder if his success is because his government
(30:53):
didn't have the power of the organization to actually silenced him.
They tried, and they basically they they couldn't. And I
feel like if it was in the US, they would
have Oh for sure, he would not have.
Speaker 4 (31:05):
Died of Tupac. You know a lot of people don't.
Speaker 5 (31:09):
Tupac shot cops and got away with it, and people
would be like, he was murdered by this, He was
murdered by that.
Speaker 4 (31:12):
I'm like, police shoot people for no reason.
Speaker 5 (31:15):
If you shoot police and win the case, oh they
want that ass, you know what I mean, they gonna
find somewhere to get.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
You, right exactly. I mean obviously Martin Luther, King, Malcolm
X's famous examples. And it's just like they still people
don't talk like it's like everyone actually knows that, and
we still don't really talk about it.
Speaker 5 (31:34):
So and also to what you're saying, it's interesting because
is that also maybe a reason why Fela is not
more well known.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
In the US?
Speaker 4 (31:43):
All right?
Speaker 1 (31:43):
And in general, I would one hundred percent agree there, I.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
Would, yeah.
Speaker 5 (31:48):
And it's cool though in a way he's like that
last because everybody just loves those like underground artists and
then they blow up and they're no longer underground. Fela
is still one of those artists that's so underground but
at the same time so reputable that you know, you say,
it's kind of like a cool thing, like yeah, felah,
that's my like ooh, and then you get to you know,
and then you're.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
Like, how you're It's like your eyes are open. It's
it's like, also, there's just so many people in Africa
and the idea of pan Africanism is so powerful that
like I feel like it only recently have has afrobeats
(32:29):
really blown up in the US. And part of it
is because people, I think, just social media and like
Africans thriving and doing stuff that people are like, oh,
they've been doing stuff and now like for me personally
ready to like hear more of the what's what's actually
(32:51):
important in that culture.
Speaker 5 (32:52):
You know what's crazy is when I used to work
out high radio, I went to the program director and
I told him, I said, Hey, the future is reggae
thon an afro beat. We got to spin this more
on the hip hop station because I don't think we
have a big enough audience.
Speaker 4 (33:09):
Five years later, I'm spinning afro beat.
Speaker 5 (33:12):
I'm the one because he you know, he gave us
the thumbs up for a couple songs. I'm the one
putting it into the system, and I'm the one put
like getting afrobeat on the radio, and it happened to
be Berna Boy, who has a tattoo of Fella. His
mom was with a Fella's dancers, and he's heavily influenced. Whyman,
he's the one who won the Grammys and all that.
So I think, I think when the more globalized we
(33:38):
get with social media, the more people are going to
be exposed to these cool cultures that have so much
so off.
Speaker 3 (33:44):
And it's great to have a contemporary relevant artist like
Berna Boy who is kind of reminding people and sort
of digging this up for a new generation because we
talk about it all the time where it's like easy
to be paralyzed by the amount of music that we
have access to today. So to there is still like
(34:05):
I don't mean this in the negative context, but context,
but gatekeepers are like still kind of an important thing,
Like they still exist. You don't need them like maybe
you used to need them. It's not like an investment
to listen to music like it used to be. But
to have a modern artist, a young artist that is
(34:27):
turning people onto something from the seventies, you know, that's
really important for the lasting you know, viability of this music.
We did a blues episode a few months ago. I
was it BB King? Yeah, it was about the tribute album.
There's a tribute album coming out in successive months to
(34:48):
BB King. And one of the questions I asked Dominique was, like,
our young black people listening to the blues, I don't
really think that they are. Like this album that we
were discussing was put together by a white dude in
his forties, Joe Bonamassa, who's a great guitar player, great
ambassador of the blues music. But it's such a quintessentially
(35:09):
African style that I'm like, do African American people care
about it anymore? Is there anyone who's like telling them to?
Even it's sad?
Speaker 4 (35:20):
And the movie Soul was so beautiful to me because
of that. It was trying to, you know, use the
youth to.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
I was not a fan of that movie, but go on, no,
I thought it was so like the so actually racist.
They made the guy like turns into a dog like
ten minutes into the movie.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
Isn't that so? No he turns into some animal? No
he doesn't, I'm looking. I did not like that movie.
Speaker 4 (35:47):
I have not seen this way soul is Jamie Fox,
Tina Fey.
Speaker 2 (35:52):
It's the animated one, right.
Speaker 5 (35:53):
Yeah, he dies within ten minutes, but he turns into
a spirit. He doesn't turn into a dog.
Speaker 4 (35:58):
There, it's not I think you need to revisit this.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
I needsit.
Speaker 3 (36:07):
Like that.
Speaker 5 (36:09):
Wes Love is in it, you know, Q Tip is
in it. It's and it's about trying to get jazz,
like is jazz still relevant? You know?
Speaker 4 (36:18):
And it's it's really deep and it's based in New
York City. But you're right, and even.
Speaker 5 (36:23):
Hip hop now, hip hop is slowly fading. It's not
the number one music anymore. And I think a lot
of it has to do with the reason hip hop
was created in the first place.
Speaker 4 (36:33):
They took band out of.
Speaker 3 (36:35):
Music programs I talked to on this podcast. I talked
to Nile Rodgers about this, Yeah, and he's like even
for him, who grew up very poor in a bad neighborhood,
he also was like a sickly child. He still had
band in school, and then when he first heard hip hop,
he was like, number one, they're stealing my song? Why
(36:56):
are they doing this? And then he actually talked to
people who were like the Sugarhill Gang and like those
guys and he's like, oh, you guys didn't get to
learn an instrument in school, so you just decided to
play with your records and that's how you made this music. Okay,
well I get it an hour cool?
Speaker 5 (37:14):
Yeah, And you know, also the church right when black
people are moving away from the church, and that's where
a lot of music comes from. I think a lot
of live music. Yeah, I think that's a great question.
Do black people still listen to the blues? I was
lucky my dad's old school.
Speaker 4 (37:32):
You know.
Speaker 5 (37:32):
My dad's in the seventies, so I was raised on blues,
jazz motown. A lot of my friends didn't have dads,
or their dads were younger and they weren't they were
raised strictly off hip hop.
Speaker 4 (37:43):
I got I was. My dad exposed me to a
lot of beautiful music.
Speaker 5 (37:48):
It's sad. What you just said to me is just
so sad. Because Ken Burns, he has a documentary jazz.
Have y'all seen this?
Speaker 3 (37:56):
Saw a part of it.
Speaker 4 (37:57):
Yeah, it's like twenty seven hours or something like that.
Speaker 5 (37:59):
Is Me and my brother Binge watched it and it
was just it's black history. It's more than just jazz.
It's Negro spirituals, It's blues as it Lea comes to
hip hop.
Speaker 4 (38:08):
It's everything. I love being a Pan Africanist.
Speaker 5 (38:24):
I was a serious revolutionary for a long time until
I've seen how how when you get that deep, negative
things happened, and I stepped away. The pandemic gave me
a chance to step away. The George Floyd thing was
like one of the last things I was part of,
but I'm out of. Like Tupac, I think he represents
that transition of straight up activism into gangster street stuff because,
(38:50):
similar to Fela, his mom was a black panther, right Tupac,
and so he had that same spirit. But he also
you see the hopelessness. And as African American, I love
what we contributed to the world, and I love our people,
and I just want some I believe that.
Speaker 4 (39:09):
I believe that we just deserve so much more.
Speaker 1 (39:12):
Speaking of needing more, so, Jamie Fox's character turns into
a cat at the thirty seven minute mark and until
the one hour and twelve minute mark he is a
cat and Tina Fey inhabits his body.
Speaker 4 (39:29):
So watch it, though way I watched it.
Speaker 1 (39:34):
I watched it and I was like does this man
literally s been the whole movie as a cat, and
he does, and then the white lady gets to be
in the in the dude's body.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
I did not care for that.
Speaker 4 (39:43):
Yeah, that part.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
I was like, it always has to be that every time.
I'm just like anyway, getting if it.
Speaker 4 (39:50):
Would have been a black woman, would have been better.
Speaker 2 (39:52):
If he wouldn't have been a cat. Why did he
have to be an animal?
Speaker 1 (39:55):
Yeah, if we just had one movie where the black
protagonist doesn't turn into an a no.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
More, we will be I will be happy about that one.
Speaker 4 (40:04):
Would you think of Sinners?
Speaker 1 (40:06):
I mean, Sinners is great, but I'm talking about I'm
talking about Senators was fantastic. I'm talking about a Disney movie,
a kid's movie, a cartoon. We got Lion King, we
got the Frog Princess, we got That's it, and we
got Soul where he's a cat slash dead.
Speaker 5 (40:22):
Anyway, all I could think is Boon Dogs. But like
when it comes to cartoons, it's.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
Like Boon Dogs is not a kid's Yeah.
Speaker 4 (40:28):
No, bin Right now, I can't think of nothing, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
There isn't.
Speaker 1 (40:31):
I'm a fan of Disney musicals and stuff like that
for kids, and we that doesn't exist. They're always turned
into an animal.
Speaker 4 (40:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (40:40):
So anyways, want twenty seven wives?
Speaker 1 (40:45):
Yes, so do you want to you know, do you
want to talk a little bit about how about that?
Speaker 5 (40:54):
Well, I will say this as controversy as it is,
controversial as it is.
Speaker 4 (41:00):
They were all there by choice.
Speaker 1 (41:01):
Yes, okay, okay, okay, I'm gonna give a quick history
a round. We've talked about it before he was he
founded the shrine, right, this was like at it was
like his commune in Legos. Yeah, and they were all
it was very much free love, having a good time
(41:23):
community and then everyone was enjoying each other's bodies and.
Speaker 2 (41:31):
He was hot.
Speaker 1 (41:32):
We had great music going and basically it was a
polyamorous like community and which would have been more traditional
traditional for some groups right in in West Africa. And
he what I heard was that he married all of
(41:52):
these women so that they could have so that they
could get respect and like a trade.
Speaker 3 (42:01):
He was kind of a lightning rod, especially in Nigeria
for media criticism. There's a quote from his one of
his sons. I want to pronounce his name Sean, it's
but it's seu n Yeah.
Speaker 4 (42:12):
I think it's pronounced differently. Yeah, but I wouldn't really
know how to.
Speaker 3 (42:17):
H So he told I think this is a this
is aggregated on GhanaWeb dot com. So he he says that,
in order to preserve their honor and dignity, my dad
asked them if they would choose to be his bride
so nobody can call them names anymore. They all agreed
that was how the marriage happened. Because the media was
(42:39):
describing like his band members and like the singers and
dancers and people in his band as like prostitutes and
hookers and stuff. And he's like, well, if they're my wives,
then they you can't call them that.
Speaker 4 (42:51):
Yeah. Crazy.
Speaker 3 (42:54):
So there's another incident that we alluded to earlier in
nineteen seventy seven, and according to this, it was hundreds
of soldiers surrounded his communal home. This is I think
the year before the marriage, the twenty seven marriages. So
(43:14):
they burned his house to the ground and threw his
mom out of a window. They broke his hands and
beat him unconscious. His mom died of her injuries.
Speaker 2 (43:27):
Is this when he was arrested as well?
Speaker 4 (43:28):
He was arrested over one hundred times. Gotcha did like
three years in prison?
Speaker 3 (43:37):
I think so the the poly amory, poly polygyny, whatever
the word is about having.
Speaker 1 (43:46):
Polygamy is when it's multiple wives, polyamory is.
Speaker 3 (43:49):
Apparently that is sort of a tribal tradition in his
in his culture. So the other side to doing that
was a bit of an f you to Christian Nigerian
ruling class.
Speaker 4 (44:11):
Yeah, and you know, so he was it.
Speaker 3 (44:12):
Was sort of a statement, like a nationalist statement almost
in addition to being sort of practical in that it
changed how people could talk about him and his family
and I don't want.
Speaker 4 (44:24):
To absolve him from.
Speaker 3 (44:26):
He also was proudly, proudly misogynist.
Speaker 4 (44:30):
Yeah, I don't think he used that word. Did he
use that word?
Speaker 3 (44:33):
He was like that that word is great for me.
Speaker 4 (44:37):
Oh my.
Speaker 3 (44:38):
There's a bunch of quotes about how he's asked about misogyny.
He's like, you can use that word. That's fine with me.
Speaker 5 (44:44):
I mean, I think it might have been more of
like you, like, you can't categorize me when he would respond,
more so than him agreeing to it, but like I
was saying, you can't absolve him from some of his trespasses.
And I would hope that they that his mother, who
was his best friend would would be in his ear
a lot to stop.
Speaker 1 (45:04):
Him from doing but you know how women can be
with their so.
Speaker 3 (45:12):
Yeah, he did do this after his mom passed away. Okay, okay,
But there's also the other the other element of this
that I saw is there was apparently there were a
lot of scandals or it was even people doing it openly.
Were like these Christian Nigerian people in power who were
(45:32):
known to have numerous mistresses and children by those mistresses,
and it was just so common that he's also sort
of issuing a moral challenge like I'm not gonna I'm
not going to mess around on my marriage. I'm just
going to marry all the people that I'm having sex with.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (45:53):
I so it's like we're all doing the same thing.
But I'm you know, inviting sounds.
Speaker 4 (45:59):
Like you kind of want to have multiple wives.
Speaker 1 (46:02):
I saw his Luckily his wife doesn't listen to a podcast.
Speaker 3 (46:07):
We'll see. I saw one of his wives referred to
as his senior wife.
Speaker 5 (46:13):
Yeah, because he already besides the twenty seven, he already
had two women before that. He had his first wife
and then he had the woman from California who's the
black panther so he had so technically had twenty nine.
Speaker 3 (46:24):
He was just like, this is me, let's get married.
Speaker 4 (46:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (46:28):
No, I mean I think this is a much bigger conversation.
But again, there is so much to gain for like
the imperial powers to discredit him and to discredit revolutionaries
and to say, you know, we can't we can't listen
to anything that he said because of he was kind
(46:51):
of not a great husband.
Speaker 4 (46:53):
Martin Luther King, Marl white women. That's not proven the FBI.
Speaker 1 (46:57):
And Malcolm X also was a massage, like.
Speaker 4 (47:01):
They try to knock black they try to knock the
black man down. Exactly what.
Speaker 2 (47:06):
Exactly?
Speaker 1 (47:07):
No, And it's I just think that, like it is
something that is a big conversation right now, that because
misogyny is so toxic and dangerous in the world and
we're just starting to kind of figure that out as
a culture that it kind of gets, uh, it outweighs
(47:29):
the attention. Yeah, and I'm just like, yeah, this he
was maybe not a good like husband, you know what
I mean, I don't really like, I don't I think
that there's a big difference between being a kind of
a dick. I guess to like some people that you're
around and like all of the positives that someone can do.
Speaker 5 (47:54):
It's like it's similar to the founding fathers or whatever.
It's like their own slaves. You know, we could go
down through our history and that actually makes me is.
Speaker 2 (48:02):
Worse than having twenty seven wives.
Speaker 4 (48:04):
Though to me, it's like they twenty seven slaves exactly.
Speaker 1 (48:07):
The president right now, like they can all do anything
they want and then and it's like, no, I would
rather Trump be like a weird husband than to rape
a bunch of children and like, you know, do fascism.
Speaker 5 (48:21):
I think, not to that extent, but I think people
I admire are people with who aren't perfect, who have blemishes,
who have problems in their history, because that makes them
more human to me, exactly, it makes them more like
I could relate to them because I know that I'm
not perfect and with all humility, I've done things I'm
not proud of.
Speaker 4 (48:40):
I've cyb redemption whatever.
Speaker 5 (48:42):
And you know, to go back to what we were
talking about women, I believe women are so much more
powerful A lot of times also they try people try
to victimize women. Throughout history, There's been women who've done
great things about history. They have agency and without women,
there is no revolution. And similar to Fello Kuti's mom,
her revolution started with a bunch of women, and Fellow
(49:04):
was like holding her hand as a little kid watching
all these women like make movements and you know, dismantled governments.
And he did the same thing in his mom. He
had thirty women behind him as he started a revolution,
you know, and he in his heart he believed that
they were more capable than having thirty men behind him,
you know. So I think also in a way he
(49:26):
believed that women like me. I believe it is like
the spiritualness of women will save the world in the
future and has kept the world together this whole entire time,
you know, if you do out human existence, and it's.
Speaker 1 (49:39):
A part of that collectivist mindset that maybe some of
these men, famous men in history, they were more interested,
you know, not to generalize, you know, I you know,
I could be called a misinterest. I don't know, But
like men, some people want to get their name out
there as much as they want to make a change
(50:01):
in the world. They want their name to be remembered,
whereas some people will not be remembered because that wasn't
a part of their goal. They were out there building
community and doing the work and not expecting a reward
or recognition.
Speaker 4 (50:16):
That's deep.
Speaker 5 (50:18):
Well, ply him, he didn't care about being famous. And
like you were saying, there's no you couldn't put his
stuff on the radio. He was like, I'm not doing
that for this. You know, he gave all his money away,
all the money he made, he gave it away the
revolutionary practices organizations or whatever. So it's like, you know,
he wasn't trying to be People ask me that a
lot about myself, Like you know, you're trying to do this.
(50:39):
I'm like, I don't care about being famous. I just
want to do what I love and hopefully maybe I'll
get paid for it. But I really I'm more interested
in the art and connect the human connection or experience.
Speaker 1 (50:52):
Well that's a great place to start wrapping up, you know,
in honor of fellow Hudi. We have the national or
(51:13):
the general strike tomorrow or on a different day.
Speaker 2 (51:18):
You could cut this out if this comes out next week.
Speaker 4 (51:20):
See yeah, but.
Speaker 1 (51:23):
I think that like it is the time to be
looking to revolutionaries of history who have succeeded and something's
been silenced and others and you know, like you said,
he was arrested over one hundred times and that didn't
stop him. So I just I want to say, you know,
(51:46):
at First Listen says fuck ice, hell yeah, and that
was our first lesson. Tell us about yours at first
Listen podcasts on Instagram and Larry Yeah.
Speaker 4 (52:04):
My Instagram is Larry Dorsey Jr.
Speaker 5 (52:07):
The social media handles the same as the name, and
my final words will be reparations because we're on some
revolutionary thing. That's one thing I always talk about and
what you were saying earlier about where the black youth is.
I make music. It's a hobby. It's not something serious.
I started off writing poetry and being part of You
(52:28):
Speaks and all these organizations, and I make music. My
goal was to try to get the streets to listen
and then slowly transition my music into something more revolutionary.
In the process of doing that, who knows if I'll
get any listeners ever, but I love doing it. That's
my pastime. So it's yeah, thank you so much for
(52:48):
being here.
Speaker 1 (52:49):
Honored and also come to a Bright Citizens Brigade New
York for you see black you see Black History Month.
On February seventh, we're pulling out all the stops, so
you can celebrate early by getting your tickets and upright, citizens, Yeah,
(53:11):
are you.
Speaker 3 (53:12):
Going to be on that shower?
Speaker 4 (53:13):
No?
Speaker 5 (53:13):
Im on Saturdays. I do stand up comedy, so on
Saturdays I'm usually booked. But I'm on a house team
at UCB and I just got renewed for another season. Yeah,
so I'll be performing every second Monday of the month
for a year.
Speaker 4 (53:27):
I used to be on the sketch team.
Speaker 3 (53:28):
Yeah, we read the second Monday, does it? Okay? No,
that makes sense?
Speaker 1 (53:33):
All right, listeners. I hope you were taking notes because
there was.
Speaker 3 (53:36):
A lot of movies that was a more academic episode anything.
Having comedian Larry Dor sat this in that direction. But
here we are. All right, let's stop doing the podcast.
Speaker 5 (53:53):
By the way, I think you have amazing energy, dude,
Like it has been very a blessing to meet you.
Speaker 4 (53:58):
Man, I had no idea what to expect that you're
hella cool.
Speaker 3 (54:02):
Yeah, I'm I'm just trying to learn, just a person
trying to learn.
Speaker 4 (54:06):
Do Everything you said was so dope. I was like, damn,
you got all the information. Okay, I see you.
Speaker 2 (54:11):
This is the epilogue. The credits are.
Speaker 3 (54:15):
Well, thank you so much and we'll be back, maybe
not next week, maybe the week after the year just
started and we are pretty rusty, so uh, subscribe to
you don't miss an episode, and we'll be back in
your feed soon for AFS listening. Bye.
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