Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
As the bus go down to Cincinnati, and there was
a minute there I think in.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
The second half you thought maybe I thought.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Maybe the bus could mount a furious comeback and make
it something after getting down pretty big there in the
first but twenty one. Yeah, I was trying to find
the exact number they were down the whole time, like
I can't remember.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Yeah, it was not It was not a good first
half for see you in terms of where that way.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
But the end of the day, you know, they put
on a good second half and kind of tried to
make it close, couldn't quite get there and ultimately wind
up losing seventy seven to sixty eight at Cincinnati.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
So is what it is. We'll continue on.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
We get a lot of football stuff to get here
on Broncos Country tonight. Obviously you had nothing more going
back to Oregon today. Smart move for him.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
I man, I feel I know it's it's it's probably in.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Politic to feel bad for the Raiders, but I feel
bad for the I feel bad for anybody who's got
a top pick in this draft.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
This draft is bad on top end talent. It's really rough.
It's it's bad. There's there's not blue chippers.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Like in this there's a couple of guys you know,
Styles at Ohio State, Rum and bain Uh what's a kid. Uh. Yeah,
there's a few guys in this draft a weird positions
that you know, but they all have and they all
still have something wrong with them, you know as far
as that goes, Like Baines get the short arms and all.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
That exactly, and Reese is like the nebulous position guy
sunny styles, great player, great prospect, low value positions, anything
that's like Caleb down right, everyone has a yeah, but
with them like Fernando Mendoza probably a really high floor
mature player.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
I don't know if he has the highest ceiling in
the league. That's and that's where I got.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
So that's where I'm leading to with this is I'm
gonna explain why more may a smart decision even though
it's a.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Bad class Mendoza.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
The grade I keep talking to people and kind of
the grade that they have on Mendoza is much much
lower than you would think it would be. There are guys,
I think people I talk to that have lower grades
on him than than Michael Pennox and bow Nicks when.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
They came out lower than cam Ward last year. Oh,
much lower, much lower.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Camp cam Ward would have been like the third or
fourth quarterback taken in that draft if he'd gone in
the bo Nicks draft. Yeah, much lower than than that,
lower than the lower than the grade they had on Jackson.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
Dart, lower than I'm assuming the top three in twenty
twenty three, which would have been Young, Stroud and Richardson correct,
So we have to go back to twenty twenty two
to Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
I mean it's basically the grade on that I had.
Like in the comparisons that I keep getting on Mendoza,
who they love is the person and call him a
great college quarterback. But the grade and the comparisons I
keep getting they called poor Man's Kirk Cousins.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
We're getting some Andy Dalton comparisons. And I think the.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Dalton was actually pretty apropos because Alton was a smart,
heady player, athletic.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
People forget dam was a beast running a ball in college. Hey,
for people forget that he was.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
Here's an animal for the ball in college. He got old,
you know, and all that kind of stuff. He don't
run anymore, but he was.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Kind of that guy. And so you know, it's fascinating
to watch his.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Raiders fans have talked themselves into Mendoza and think he's
the second Coming and all this kind of.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Stuff, and I'm like, man, I feel bad.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
If I were the Raiders, dude, I would be trying
to trade out of I'd be trying to trick the
Jets into coming up and getting Mendoza and try to
get out of that pick and stockpile drafts for the
next year. And you know why, because you got a
bevy of great quarterbacks coming out next year.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Arch Manning might be in that class.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
And if it's me and I look at a quarterback
and in the drafts, and I say, all right, do I
believe it? This guy is an absolute surefire top ten
can take me to the Super Bowl quarterback. And if
you don't believe that, pass go get a bridge quarterback
and just pay him to get you through the year
while you continue to build your roster and keep going
back to the draft.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
And then when you find the guy, move heaven and
hell to go get him. If you believe in bone
like Sean Payton did, and you got him to fall into.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
Your lap, you know, playing some chicannery with the JJ
McCarthy stuff and everything else.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Okay, if you believe it, a go.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
But if you don't believe pass, don't sit there entire
your self to four years and your coaching tenure because
you're gonna get fired if it didn't work. Don't don't
sit there and tire yourself someone you'll believe it. And
on the flip side of that, people are saying, oh,
Dante Moore made a mistake, he'd be the number two
overall pick might have been, might have been the number
two hour well pick eyo to him and probably Ty Simpson,
(04:31):
which has insane to me, but.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Not really, because.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Dante Moore is gonna get nine and a half million
in nil and endorsements out of Oregon this year, right,
and this is this is the lev Bell math to me,
Levio but you guys, remember Levio Bell wouldn't play on the
franchise tax, So just passing on paychecks, don't pass on money.
Don't pass on money, go back, take the nil, get
the reps. Dante Morley is twenty games under his belt.
There is no substitute for getting the reps. And the
(04:56):
reason I say that's more important than the fifty million
Nagget the nine and a hal happen me and then
and then the NFL money will be there when you
come back to it is twofold one. The goal is
to make it to the second contract. It's not about
the rookie deal. The life changing money is in the
second contract to quarterback. Even mediocre quarterbacks are going to
get forty million dollars a year. That's the life a year.
(05:19):
That's the life of an NFL rookie contract. Okay, number two,
If you are not ready to play at the NFL
level when you get out of college, you're not going
to make it to that second contract. And it won't matter.
Ask Trey Lance about that. Ask Anthony Richardson about that.
Those dudes are not going to get those second those
second time big money contracts because they weren't ready. Try
(05:41):
to do their development in the NFL, and look at
the guys who've.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
Panned out recently. It's it's guys with a lot of experience.
Though Nicks, Shade and Daniels, Zach Morris go.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Get the starts in the college.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
The script on this is flipped right because the tail
end of the other era, where you get to the
league as fast as possible to get paid because you
weren't getting paid in college. Was the Matt Stafford era, right, Remember,
we used to give all these huge money contracts to
guys and they came out, then you wanted to get
to that right away, right And the thing about that
(06:13):
was is because those numbers, those contracts and those guys
were so big, you were tied to those rookies and
they got time to develop patients with coaches was a
lot longer twenty years ago than it is now.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
You got four years. Nowadays you get two, maybe three.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
If you're lucky for the Raiders, you get six months,
maybe the next quarter, maybe the.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Next coach there, I'll get a better deal.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
But the reality is to say, if the script is
flipped on this now and because of the Nile, because
of the open paying of guys in college football, it
is better to go back and exhaust eligibility in college
and get those reps and get that money before you
try to go to the NFL. It's not about being
the top pick, honestly, Mathematically, by the math, it's better
(07:00):
to be a second round draft pick as a quarterback.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
You know why they don't have a fifth year option
on you.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
If you're good it's four years before you're getting to
the big money deal, not five or six.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Right, you go, you get forty They got four years
to control on you, and that's it. Yeah, are the
franchise tell you and you get fifty million up front?
That's right, That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
So if they franchise tag you, then you get to
So any which way you slice it, it's better to
actually go back to college. And people are like, no,
you're trading fifty million dollars for ten Not really, you're trading.
You're trading you guys that are trying to get Dante
more to jump, or trading dollars for donuts.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
You're trading dollars for quarters.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Right, you're looking at that fifty million dollar number and saying, hey,
that's bigger than ten million next year. Well, if he
flops next year, they've got an insurance policy, he's got
additional eligibility.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
He can go back and get another shot at this thing.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Once you're in the NFL, there's no there's no other
nil pipeline of funds coming.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
The reality is you stand a better chance making more
money staying in college and cashing those checks and maximizing
that and then turning around and going to the NFL.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
I think, and I agree with you on this. I
think he's ultimately benefiting from it. I think the NFL
product's going to benefit from it because you're going to
see these quarterbacks hit at a higher rate because they're
more prepared for what's coming at them, and better quarterbacks
makes a better game. That said, I do think you
look at cases like Drew Aller and who was the
other one and nuss Meyer last years.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Meyer was a Day three guy last year that everybody
talked up because he played for LSU. Drew Aller was
a raw, toolsy guy that people talked up because they
weren't sold.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
On anybody after km ward.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
That's true, but if they came out, yeah, maybe nus
Meyer was just type. But there was at least buzz
about those guys being first round picks.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
And now you look at them and it's do they
get drafted, you know, in the first five rounds. So
get drafted and you know whatever, But then you're you're
up to you know, then it's up to you to
go out there and prove yourself.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
In those situations. The reality is and said, if.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
You can find any way that you can to stay
in college and keep cashing those checks and then get
to the pros with the reps because you're more likely
to be able to hit the ground running in the NFL.
That in turn makes you more likely to be able
to get to that second deal. You can't get that
second deal if you're riding the Pine, or if a
team has benched to you to bring in the ghost
of Philip Rivers or whatever else, or bring in Daniel
(09:25):
Jones on a reclamation tour, whatever the case may be.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
You can't get to that. So go be the guy
who's prepared to go out work everybody and go do it.
Look at Brock Party. Brock Party, was mister irrelevant, stayed
in school? Did all that kind of stuff got out there?
Mister Irrelevant?
Speaker 1 (09:41):
There you go, And I'm telling you guys that these
people that are trying to tell you to get to
the pro game, that's old school way of thinking. You
are costing yourself money and frankly opportunity. Because fifty million
dollars is one year of that second deal. You got
to have your eyes not just on what's in front
(10:02):
of you, but what's five steps in front of you
and what's ten steps in front of you and Vatteymore
absolutely made the right choice to go back to Oregon.
You know what, if he gets hurt, they got an
insurance policy. You know what, if he flops, he's got
additional eligibility.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
And to our.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
Point about experience, just making it that much more likely
you're going to cash in in the NFL. If you
look at first round quarterback since two thousand and nine,
incredibly long data point here, guys, with six hundred and
thirty three attenphs or less, that's how many Dante More has.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Here's the lame out.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
Yeah, Justin Fields, Carson Wentz, Dwayne Haskins, Mitch Trubisky, Mac Jones,
Kyler Murray, Mark Sanchez, Anthony Richardson, Trey Lance, and Cam Newton.
Cam Newton's a hit, Kyler Murray, Well.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
How many? How many stamps to Cam Heather two ninety two?
But then I guess it's not counting the.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Cause that doesn't count his blend college reps that he
was getting down there at Juco ball, So he was
getting reps. That's a good point, and that's why he's
the outlier there. Who are the other names?
Speaker 3 (11:03):
Again, A bunch of guys who didn't work out, Kyler Murray,
I guess is the other closest thing to it, Fields, Wentz, Haskins, Trubisky,
Mac Jones, Sanchez, Richardson, Lance.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
Most and most of those guys didn't get to a
second deal. Justin Field's got to a micro second deal.
Cam Newton got a second arm. Excuse me, Kyler Murray
got a second deal, and now they're benched and yeah,
and then they benched him.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
They're trying to move on from him. It's just it's
it's fascinating to me.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
As you as you look at this, how people will
trade the the the real big money away for for
what they think is a temporary binary choice. It's not
just about there's there's it's a chain of events. There's
a sequence of events behind this. And if you are
not guaranteed to be the number one overall pick, it
doesn't make I.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Mean, if you can stay stay in school. Dante Moore
might not be.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
The second quarterback drafted whenever he comes out now, but
I I I'd be willing to bet you he is
significantly better positioned to make more money long term, and
he won't lose anything by making nine and a half
million dollars this year and the last quarterback we were
having this conversation about. I think it's worth noting is
JJ McCarthy, who's probably the worst quarterback draft pick of
(12:18):
these last two years. Like, the tide is very clearly
turned towards and it's the whole parcels system. You know.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
You want guys.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
Thirty games, thirty starts, you know, thirty starts. Yeah, the
certain amount of passing attempts, the yards. I think it's
looking more critical now than ever.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
Yeah, I like, for me, I want somebody who's got
thirty starts.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
A thousand passing attempts, a thousand dropbacks minimum. You know,
you start to look at that kind of stuff as
the guys who have those things, and they're just more successful.
There's no substitute for reps. And when I say that,
people are like, well, it's not a pro stuft doesn't matter.
Doesn't matter if it's a pro style offense or not
recognizing what's happening on the other side of the.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Light of Screammage he's so vital.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
I mean even today because development he's hindered as much
as it is a lot of what people are doing
is not you know, you got pure pass progressions and
all that kind.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Of not even the way that they coach offense.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Is different now because guys aren't record, they don't recognize
what's on the other side of the they don't get
enough reps, they don't recognize what's on this It's part
of the reason that I was so adamant that Pat
Maholmes was absolutely gonna be the dude.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
Back at Texas Tech.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
I looked at the trades and because he who's got
a cannon for an arm, he's mobile, he could throw
off platform. I know by the way, he's got like
two thousand dropbacks in college.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
But he's seen it. And that's the thing.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
It's not just I think the experience like it's experienced,
but it's problem solving on the job. You see these
guys like a Zach Wilson, like a JJ McCarthy when
they get you know, throw Trey Lance, when they get
thrown into these spots, and it feels so fast for them,
and you know, like Bo had a bit of that
at first, but.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
He conquered it fairly quickly.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
These guys like Justin Fields is still working with a
sun dials as his internal clock.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
I think you need to develop that in the college game.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Yeah, Pava Holmes had had Darner Darner eighteen hundred dropbacks
when you count, because some of those were rushing, you know,
RPO type stuff.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
But it snaps where you're over there observing.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
And you're gonna be a primary ball handler on a play,
whether that's a whether that's a pass, attempt to rush,
a sack, whatever, like, where you're the primary ball handler
of the play.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
There's no substitute for those those reps.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
There's no there's no there isn't And when you get there,
people are like, well, you get to the program, you
get coach up, dude, as a second or third stringer,
you are not getting reps. Brett Rippon would get like
five reps. He's like, I get three to five reps
in practice and that was it, dude. I mean, you know,
and Brett didn't have the strongest arm and all kind
of stuff. But what I'm trying to get at is
(14:42):
when you're the third string quarter, you're not getting reps.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Looks at the shra Door story this year. Yeah, the
second Yeah, the third string guy wasn't getting reps.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
The second string guy's barely getting reps because you have
such limited practice time.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
Thanks to the CBA.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
Now the coaches want to get the maximum amount the
starters that they can, and I don't blame them. The
NFL is just a different product than it used to
be twenty years ago in terms of how you have
to coach it, how you have to scout it, what
you're looking for, even though are the physical archetypes in
quarterbacks are what you were looking for twenty years ago.
Twenty years ago you wanted six foot six, two hundred
(15:18):
and twenty five pounds of rocket arm, and now you're
fine if they're six foot two ten and you're looking
for four to six or better mobility on top of
the ability to place the ball accurately.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
Yeah, you're sacrificing that standing strong in the pocket for
the mobility and the flexibility, the ability to maneuver around.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
And I also think those moments are things that require reps.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
Like I don't think you can like Richard Anthony Richardson,
you know, I think has been all over the place
with accuracy and whatnot, because it's just it's too fast.
You need a lot of reps to dial this stuff.
It's the hardest position in sports. It's not gonna and
you don't get an opportunity anymore to learn on the job.
There's no more drafting the guy and letting him sit
for a year barring extreme excitab Well, I mean, Mahomes
(16:03):
got to sit for a year behind Alex Smith because
they already had a core competency quarterback there. Josh Allen
is the other exception in the sense that they brought
him in and just kind of let him. But Josh
Allen had a lot of reps in college between Juco
and a couple of years at Wyoming. Like, Josh had
the tools and had the reps and had an organization
that knew they were in for a three year build
and were committed to that the minute he walked in
(16:24):
the door. You know, this wasn't like with the Anthony
Richardson situation, where he got what a year and a half,
you know, and then you're like, what are we doing here?
Speaker 2 (16:32):
This guy's not ready at all. And so it's it's
fascinating to me how many.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
People push back against the idea that Dante Moore shouldn't
have gone back to school. He sacrificed fifty million dollars
to make ten out. He's looking at the one hundred
and fifty. That's what he's looking at. He secured the ten,
and he's willing to flip the fifth and willing to
do a coin flip on the fifty that he might
still get to position himself better for the one hundred
(16:57):
and fifty two hundred and fifty the road Broncos Country
the night back after this so short show post CEU
Buffsmen's basketball edition obvio see, Cincinnati held on to uh
beat the buff seventy seven sixty eight and dropping the
Buffs to twelve and five on the season.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Cincinnati moves to nine and eight, gets above five hundred.
Short show obviously as it is, but we appreciate you
guys being along the ride. And with that, let's get
some NFL six pack. It's time for the NFL six pad.
I'm gonna tak it off insight and insight information you
can't find anywhere else, I know, the top six NFL headline.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
What started off here with ESPN releasing their rankings of
the NFL rookie classes so far and how they did
in their first seasons.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
In the league. They ranked to Broncos. Surprisingly, I think
at seventeen. It's right in the middle of the NFL.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
Do you think that reflects that fans are underrating this
draft class and what are your expectations for this proper
rookies next season?
Speaker 1 (18:10):
Well, I think you expect him to have a bigger
bite next season. I think it's a fair rating. What
would why would anybody say that they deserve to be
any higher? R J. Harvey really hasn't shown that he
can consistently run the ball. He's had a few explosives
and you know, got the gaudy' touchdown numbers, but other
than that, I mean Baron, I mean, he's been out there,
(18:32):
but he hasn't really been a big factor.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Pat Bryant.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
I thought he was kind of starting to come into
his own for a second there before the concussion, but
then you know, he's just been a non factor since
uh Saian Jones has been mostly a non factor. Will
has been a good one on the field, but fairly
on the field because he's the fifth edge rusher.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Whatever, right, Crawshaw, cross Shaw. I mean, it's been some
hits or missus with him.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
I think he's finally you know, it was that game
I thought we were gonna fire him the Y I
thought he was done. Yeah, but he founced back off
at I think Crosshaw has been you know, I mean,
cross Shaw is probably the most productive member of your
rookie class. I mean, I get people gonna say RJ.
But when all said and done, that said, you know,
I mean, what are we doing here? This was not
(19:17):
you know, this wasn't the crown Jewel. This was a
depth draft class that on purpose and you know, I mean, frankly,
that's what it turned out to be.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Yeah, they definitely built up the depth.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
And I was surprised to see a ranked this high
honestly based on how you kind of laid out.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
They they didn't have a ton of rookie impact.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
Your your most impactful rookie only true, you know, season
long starter is a punter, you know, and then r J.
Harvey is only a starter because of injury relief, right,
you know. It's it's I'm kind of surprised they were
even at the middle of the league. I think it
points to maybe as a whole, this this year's NFL
draft class hasn't been overly impactful. If that many teams
(19:53):
have had less impact from their rookie class. Yeah, I
don't know, I haven't sat down and wranked them.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
But I would say, yes, that that seems fair on
the surface.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
Two.
Speaker 3 (20:06):
A panel of edvel dot com writers ranked the Denver
Broncos as the team with the second worst chance of
winning the Super Bowl among the eight remaining teams. They
ranked only ahead of the beat up of San Francisco
forty nine ers. The Broncos, also, by the Vegas odds makers,
have the fifth best.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
Betting notts to win the Super Bowl.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
Do you think the Broncos are being underrated in terms
of their championship hopes by either the media or.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
The odds makers. That's fascinating to me. They think the
Bears have better odds to make the Super Bowl than
the Broncos. That one to win it. That one was
shocking to me too. Yeah, that seems weird to me.
I would say the Niners.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
I get it because their injury stuff, although I would
say on a neutral site they'd be favored against us. Yeah,
the Bears should not have better odds otherwise I get it,
completely get it. I think just about everybody else to
be favored as you run on the list. I can't
think of anybody that wouldn't be.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
On a neutral site.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Yeah, a neutral site would be maybe Houston. I think
I would honestly probably put there like the same odds.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
I think the.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
Broncos offense is slightly better than Houston's. I think their
defense is slightly less than Houston's. But I think they're
both in the same tiers on both, you know. But yeah,
the Bears and Niners i'd put by, and then everybody
else I would say on a neutral field would be favored,
and I generally agree that my counter would be at
least on the AFC side of things, they won't be
playing on a neutral field.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
They'll be playing here in Denver.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
And if we're ranking teams by how confident we are
they could win a Super Bowl, I feel like that's
an important factor.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
Well, I think the narrative on Denver is either going
to flip or be solidified on Saturday. Honestly, I would
agree it doesn't matter even if the Buffalo Weed is ugly, Like,
the narrative will flip at that point because you beat
a team of substance, which they haven't really done since
I mean, I guess you count the Packers, although they
lost Parsons and they never won a game once they
lost Parsons so, and I think that game did kind
(22:02):
of change the narrative. It's just you followed it up
with the Jags game, right, and I think enough people
saw the two touchdowns score, even if it was closer
than that for a lot of the game.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
And then you had the laughers.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
Against the snooze fest against the backup quarterbacks that I mean,
you can't really what do we get.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Out of that? Exactly?
Speaker 3 (22:16):
And those were nationally broadcasted games where you know, the
Christmas game and then the Jim and Tony game for
a week eight.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
Game, then we're getting them again. Yeah, how long until
they replaced JJ replaced them with JJ, Watt and Eagle.
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
But Tony, like I did a whole thing on that
the other day, where like I was talking about that,
like Tony Tony Romo.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
The reason he was good his first year wasn't he
was predicted plays.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
It was because he had an infectious energy, right, you
could tell he still loved football, and it just does
not feel like he loves football anymore.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
And beyond like the predicting plays, he knew what he
was talking about. He opened up the game. You know,
this past weekend on a whole spiel about how underdogs. Yeah,
the Jags maybe surprised people like the Panthers almost did
yesterday when they were favorites.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
Crazy, utterly unbelievable.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
Three.
Speaker 3 (23:06):
We have nine NFL head coach openings, with the Pittsburgh
Steelers job recently opening up. Of those nine, just a reminder,
that's the Arizona Cardinals, Atlanta Falcons, Baltimore Ravens, Cleveland Brown's,
Las Vegas Raiders, Miami Dolphins, New York Giants, Pittsburgh Steelers,
and Tennessee Titans. Of those nine, which two are the
most appealing and which two are the least appealing.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
Well, the most appealing are Baltimore Pittsburgh period.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
Yes, and that's just because of the support, organizational infrastructure
and patients those organizations have. That doesn't even include a
roster talent, and they both have talent and all that
kind of stuff. Baltimore's got a quarterback, Pittsburgh's got to
get one. But otherwise that's why those are the most appealing.
The next tier is probably Atlanta, the New York Giants,
(23:55):
maybe maybe Tennessee creeps in there, although they've got some
ownership issues and front office issue I'm not sure.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
And then of course you've got the Raiders, and then
you've got uh. After that, then you get one Cleveland, and.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
Then you've got not having a job, and then you've
got the UFL uh. And then you've got professional flag football,
and then you've got Pop Warner ball uh.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
And then you've got the Arizona Cardinals. I mean, I
don't blame you.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
They they rank with like an F rating and all
those NFLPA things annually for a good reason.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
Yeah, well, it'll be tough to see vance Joseph.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
Go, there are we gonna Oh man, that'll break my heart,
but I'll be glad to get the third round picks.
Do you think the the NFLPA report cards will come back?
I don't think we ever saw those this year.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
We saw them the end of the year. Oh they did.
I saw saw them at the view year. I remember
a news story about.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
One of the I think it was Woody trying to
Woody Johnson with the Jets trying to block those being
released and going forward.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
Yeah, it's his thing. He wants those block because they
make him look bad.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
But uh, yeah, I think Arizona's the least desirable job,
and I do believe that they will ultimately hire Vance
Joseph because that's the only person.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
That will take that job.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
Or again, I just hope he gets that coaching jobs,
we get those traff picks to go trade for Dennis Allen.
At that point, Ravens owner Steve veshot He was holding
a press conference when the Mike Tomlin news broke and
he exclaimed, Holy s, wouldn't that be awesome if Mike
Tomlin was a coaching free agent. Of course, he's still
(25:22):
under contract with the Steelers. They'd have to trade him
to the Ravens. That seems incredibly unlikely. But if he
was a coaching free agent, how seriously do you think
the Ravens would pursue him? And who do you think
the Ravens will ultimately land In reality, I think the
Ravens will probably wind up with Jesse Minter. I think
(25:42):
ultimately that's probably while they're wind up. We'll see maybe
Cliff Kingsbury's is OC. We'll see, could be you know, it.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
Could be fun.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Yeah, well, we'll see, we'll see how that works out.
I think, you know, conceptually, I think that's kind of
where they want to be. Tomlin's gonna take the year off.
He's got a TV job wait at Fox. I know
he's taking the year off and not gonna take these jobs.
He wants to recenter himself, right, and whether or not
he ever gets back to coaching, which I believe you will,
he wants to kind of recenter himself in the sense that,
you know, the last almost decade in Pittsburgh was him
(26:11):
just going down the rabbit hole the same way the
Broncos did after the Super Bowl, where you're just trying
to patch the quarterback and oh, we can keep this going,
we keep this going.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
You get too emotionally invested.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
In your guys and don't realize that you need to
move off some guys and reset some things, and you
know that kind of stuff. And Tomlin, for to his credit,
is recognize that and it was time, you know, so
he went ahead, and you know, he pulled the plug
on that thing. And I think he wants to recenter
himself and then kind of look at the landscape and
see what's available at that point and go from there.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
And I think there's gonna be some better jobs available
next cycle. Anyway.
Speaker 3 (26:42):
Yeah, I think there should be some good jobs open
next cycle. But I also love your point about who
knows if he'll ever return. You know, it's twenty years
ago now. But when Bill Cower left and they ended
up hiring Mike Tomlin, Bill Kawer went to his studio
job with CBS with the idea that he was going
to take a break in return, and then it was like, Hey,
this TV life is pretty cushy compared to the sixty
(27:03):
hours a week I was working and I get to
spend time with my family and whatnot.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
So we'll see if he gets back into it. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
On that note, Bill Kawer almost came out of the
booth in twenty eleven to coach the Carolina Panthers, and
the only reason you just didn't at that time was
his girlfriend, who lived there in New York, just basically
talked him out of it. He was set to come
out the booth and take the Carolina job, and ultimately
they went with Ron RIVERA. Wow, that's crazy. That would
(27:31):
have been an interesting timeline.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (27:34):
Five Bucks running back for Sean White told the media
that he thinks Todd Bulls should let someone else call
the team's defensive plays going forward so that Bulls can
focus on his head coaching duties. What do you make
of those comments? And how hot is bull Seat and
Tampa going forward?
Speaker 1 (27:53):
Well, it was red hot. He was very nearly fired
this year. If they could have gotten John Harbaugh, then
he would have been fired. But ultimately Harball kind of
told him like, look, I'm not really you know, Jason
Light's a great GM, but I'm kind of looking for
my own guy or a guy I'm familiar with, which,
by the way, he may have Joe Shane for a
few months in New York if he does take that job.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
But yeah, he kind of wasn't looking for what they
were they were doing down there in Tampa, and you know,
they ended up not getting that.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
As far as this goes, it's rare that a currently
rostered running back is sitting there saying the head coach
should give up his play calling duties. Uh, that that's
pretty pretty notable. I tend to agree with him just
based on the way the defense performed. But what what
duties does Todd Bowles have outside of calling the defense
(28:39):
down there?
Speaker 3 (28:40):
I mean, this is the game management stuff that he's
absolutely terrible and the defense has been bad for two
years now.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
Yeah, but a Baker and Grizzard ran on ran the offense.
The Grizzard got fired too, but they ran the offense.
Like Todd didn't really do anything with that. Yeah, yeah, maybe,
I mean maybe, but I don't know. At the end
of the day, he's a you know, he's got one.
He's gonna be gone after next year anyway, you know,
Like that's the thing, Like he's going to rebuild his
(29:06):
whole state, flushed everybody out, He's gonna rebuild his staff.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
Most people don't want to go there because they know
it's one and done. And you know, and do you
think they could be a possible landing place for Mike
Tomlin or do you think it'll go the way of Harbaugh.
It's possible. I think Harball is gonna wind up in
New York. I think he's gonna go fake.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
I say fake, he's gonna go take these Atlanta Tennessee interviews.
And the place where you have the maximum leverage is
when you're sitting in somebody else's building or on their
tarmac and you're saying, well, here's what I want, and
if you don't give it to me, I'm going to
go take the job they're offering. That's your maximum point
of leverage. So for people wondering what Harball is doing
right now and leaving New York without the deal, that's
(29:45):
why very interesting.
Speaker 3 (29:47):
Six last one for you here, the Baltimore Ravens, one
of those openings, are reportedly working on a new deal
for Lamar Jackson. That said, considering Jackson's injury history, his
struggles this season and including some more injuries, and the
fact that he's nearing thirty, would you have any concerns
if you were one of these prospective coaching candidates about
(30:10):
giving him a long you know, at the sixty million
dollar a year, long term extension going forward.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
If you were that head coach, I would absolutely be
leery of that. You know that that's something you've got
to take into account. Over the last uh, what is it,
six years, I think only two of those he's played
a full season.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
He's definitely had had injuries.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
As far as it goes, you talk about a guy
who's gonna be he's a twenty years, twenty eight or
twenty nine right now camera, I think he just turned
he just turned Yeah, just turned twenty nine, and you're
you're going to tie up a quarter million dollars a
quarter billion dollars in in him with father time being undefeated.
Right around this point, I mean, you know, uh, we
talked about Russ's fall off in terms of athleticism and
(30:54):
all that kind of stuff, and what he became when
when it went away, uh, or when he lost the
stuff should say didn't go away, which is what he
lost to step same thing with Lamar. Lamar has never
been you know, he needs that athleticism in order to
work other elements of his game.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
I would be very hesitant at that point.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
I In fact, if I'm Baltimore, I got a new
coaching here, we might flush the whole thing and do
a rebuild, you know what I mean? We might that
might be I might take the draft picks that I
can get for Lamar at this point in the conversation
and look at the situation like, hey, you know, we
can rebuild this thing right now. Is there anybody out
there we like, is there a bridge quarterback we can
use in the interim, you know that kind of stuff.
(31:31):
I think we'd exploring all our options before I put
another because last time we got what two hundred.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
And sixty five million?
Speaker 1 (31:37):
This time you probably look at a three hundred million
dollar contract for a quarterback. That's it's basically at the end.
He's at the end of his prime now and it's
going to be declined after this.
Speaker 3 (31:45):
Yeah, to your point about Russ, Russ's collapse really started
around age thirty two to thirty three, that's usually the number.
And we're going to be tacking on years to the
deal he already has. I don't have it right in
front of me, but I imagine that's going to make
you pretty committed to this guy through at least his
age thirty five season.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
Yeah, he signed through.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
Twenty twenty seven, so through his thirty season to thirty one,
and then you're adding on to that so your decline years.
Speaker 3 (32:09):
You're going to be paying him fifty billion dollars and
with how teams are you know, pushing the money back,
you're probably paying him sixty seventy million dollar cap hits.
By the time it's all said and done and he's
at Danish quarterback, it could very easily wind up looking
like the next Russell Wilson situation.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
He's got a seventy four and a half million dollars
hit next year at a seventy four and a half
million dollars hit the following year. That's prohibitive. Yeah, and
then you're going to turn around and put attack more
on then they did it. They did twelve and a
half on void years. So the idea that you did
get away with that, and to me, I'm trading him, taking.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
The draft picks and starting over. Personally. We got as
far as we could with him. We tried Roncos Country tonight.
Appreciate you guys beat along for the ride. Well do
by this
As the bus go down to Cincinnati, and there was
a minute there I think in.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
The second half you thought maybe I thought.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Maybe the bus could mount a furious comeback and make
it something after getting down pretty big there in the
first but twenty one. Yeah, I was trying to find
the exact number they were down the whole time, like
I can't remember.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Yeah, it was not It was not a good first
half for see you in terms of where that way.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
But the end of the day, you know, they put
on a good second half and kind of tried to
make it close, couldn't quite get there and ultimately wind
up losing seventy seven to sixty eight at Cincinnati.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
So is what it is. We'll continue on.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
We get a lot of football stuff to get here
on Broncos Country tonight. Obviously you had nothing more going
back to Oregon today. Smart move for him.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
I man, I feel I know it's it's it's probably in.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Politic to feel bad for the Raiders, but I feel
bad for the I feel bad for anybody who's got
a top pick in this draft.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
This draft is bad on top end talent. It's really rough.
It's it's bad. There's there's not blue chippers.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Like in this there's a couple of guys you know,
Styles at Ohio State, Rum and bain Uh what's a kid. Uh. Yeah,
there's a few guys in this draft a weird positions
that you know, but they all have and they all
still have something wrong with them, you know as far
as that goes, Like Baines get the short arms and all.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
That exactly, and Reese is like the nebulous position guy
sunny styles, great player, great prospect, low value positions, anything
that's like Caleb down right, everyone has a yeah, but
with them like Fernando Mendoza probably a really high floor
mature player.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
I don't know if he has the highest ceiling in
the league. That's and that's where I got.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
So that's where I'm leading to with this is I'm
gonna explain why more may a smart decision even though
it's a.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Bad class Mendoza.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
The grade I keep talking to people and kind of
the grade that they have on Mendoza is much much
lower than you would think it would be. There are guys,
I think people I talk to that have lower grades
on him than than Michael Pennox and bow Nicks when.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
They came out lower than cam Ward last year. Oh,
much lower, much lower.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Camp cam Ward would have been like the third or
fourth quarterback taken in that draft if he'd gone in
the bo Nicks draft. Yeah, much lower than than that,
lower than the lower than the grade they had on Jackson.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
Dart, lower than I'm assuming the top three in twenty
twenty three, which would have been Young, Stroud and Richardson correct,
So we have to go back to twenty twenty two
to Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
I mean it's basically the grade on that I had.
Like in the comparisons that I keep getting on Mendoza,
who they love is the person and call him a
great college quarterback. But the grade and the comparisons I
keep getting they called poor Man's Kirk Cousins.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
We're getting some Andy Dalton comparisons. And I think the.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Dalton was actually pretty apropos because Alton was a smart,
heady player, athletic.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
People forget dam was a beast running a ball in college. Hey,
for people forget that he was.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
Here's an animal for the ball in college. He got old,
you know, and all that kind of stuff. He don't
run anymore, but he was.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Kind of that guy. And so you know, it's fascinating
to watch his.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Raiders fans have talked themselves into Mendoza and think he's
the second Coming and all this kind of.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Stuff, and I'm like, man, I feel bad.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
If I were the Raiders, dude, I would be trying
to trade out of I'd be trying to trick the
Jets into coming up and getting Mendoza and try to
get out of that pick and stockpile drafts for the
next year. And you know why, because you got a
bevy of great quarterbacks coming out next year.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Arch Manning might be in that class.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
And if it's me and I look at a quarterback
and in the drafts, and I say, all right, do I
believe it? This guy is an absolute surefire top ten
can take me to the Super Bowl quarterback. And if
you don't believe that, pass go get a bridge quarterback
and just pay him to get you through the year
while you continue to build your roster and keep going
back to the draft.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
And then when you find the guy, move heaven and
hell to go get him. If you believe in bone
like Sean Payton did, and you got him to fall into.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
Your lap, you know, playing some chicannery with the JJ
McCarthy stuff and everything else.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Okay, if you believe it, a go.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
But if you don't believe pass, don't sit there entire
your self to four years and your coaching tenure because
you're gonna get fired if it didn't work. Don't don't
sit there and tire yourself someone you'll believe it. And
on the flip side of that, people are saying, oh,
Dante Moore made a mistake, he'd be the number two
overall pick might have been, might have been the number
two hour well pick eyo to him and probably Ty Simpson,
(04:31):
which has insane to me, but.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Not really, because.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Dante Moore is gonna get nine and a half million
in nil and endorsements out of Oregon this year, right,
and this is this is the lev Bell math to me,
Levio but you guys, remember Levio Bell wouldn't play on the
franchise tax, So just passing on paychecks, don't pass on money.
Don't pass on money, go back, take the nil, get
the reps. Dante Morley is twenty games under his belt.
There is no substitute for getting the reps. And the
(04:56):
reason I say that's more important than the fifty million
Nagget the nine and a hal happen me and then
and then the NFL money will be there when you
come back to it is twofold one. The goal is
to make it to the second contract. It's not about
the rookie deal. The life changing money is in the
second contract to quarterback. Even mediocre quarterbacks are going to
get forty million dollars a year. That's the life a year.
(05:19):
That's the life of an NFL rookie contract. Okay, number two,
If you are not ready to play at the NFL
level when you get out of college, you're not going
to make it to that second contract. And it won't matter.
Ask Trey Lance about that. Ask Anthony Richardson about that.
Those dudes are not going to get those second those
second time big money contracts because they weren't ready. Try
(05:41):
to do their development in the NFL, and look at
the guys who've.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
Panned out recently. It's it's guys with a lot of experience.
Though Nicks, Shade and Daniels, Zach Morris go.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Get the starts in the college.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
The script on this is flipped right because the tail
end of the other era, where you get to the
league as fast as possible to get paid because you
weren't getting paid in college. Was the Matt Stafford era, right, Remember,
we used to give all these huge money contracts to
guys and they came out, then you wanted to get
to that right away, right And the thing about that
(06:13):
was is because those numbers, those contracts and those guys
were so big, you were tied to those rookies and
they got time to develop patients with coaches was a
lot longer twenty years ago than it is now.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
You got four years. Nowadays you get two, maybe three.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
If you're lucky for the Raiders, you get six months,
maybe the next quarter, maybe the.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Next coach there, I'll get a better deal.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
But the reality is to say, if the script is
flipped on this now and because of the Nile, because
of the open paying of guys in college football, it
is better to go back and exhaust eligibility in college
and get those reps and get that money before you
try to go to the NFL. It's not about being
the top pick, honestly, Mathematically, by the math, it's better
(07:00):
to be a second round draft pick as a quarterback.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
You know why they don't have a fifth year option
on you.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
If you're good it's four years before you're getting to
the big money deal, not five or six.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Right, you go, you get forty They got four years
to control on you, and that's it. Yeah, are the
franchise tell you and you get fifty million up front?
That's right, That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
So if they franchise tag you, then you get to
So any which way you slice it, it's better to
actually go back to college. And people are like, no,
you're trading fifty million dollars for ten Not really, you're trading.
You're trading you guys that are trying to get Dante
more to jump, or trading dollars for donuts.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
You're trading dollars for quarters.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Right, you're looking at that fifty million dollar number and saying, hey,
that's bigger than ten million next year. Well, if he
flops next year, they've got an insurance policy, he's got
additional eligibility.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
He can go back and get another shot at this thing.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Once you're in the NFL, there's no there's no other
nil pipeline of funds coming.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
The reality is you stand a better chance making more
money staying in college and cashing those checks and maximizing
that and then turning around and going to the NFL.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
I think, and I agree with you on this. I
think he's ultimately benefiting from it. I think the NFL
product's going to benefit from it because you're going to
see these quarterbacks hit at a higher rate because they're
more prepared for what's coming at them, and better quarterbacks
makes a better game. That said, I do think you
look at cases like Drew Aller and who was the
other one and nuss Meyer last years.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Meyer was a Day three guy last year that everybody
talked up because he played for LSU. Drew Aller was
a raw, toolsy guy that people talked up because they
weren't sold.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
On anybody after km ward.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
That's true, but if they came out, yeah, maybe nus
Meyer was just type. But there was at least buzz
about those guys being first round picks.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
And now you look at them and it's do they
get drafted, you know, in the first five rounds. So
get drafted and you know whatever, But then you're you're
up to you know, then it's up to you to
go out there and prove yourself.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
In those situations. The reality is and said, if.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
You can find any way that you can to stay
in college and keep cashing those checks and then get
to the pros with the reps because you're more likely
to be able to hit the ground running in the NFL.
That in turn makes you more likely to be able
to get to that second deal. You can't get that
second deal if you're riding the Pine, or if a
team has benched to you to bring in the ghost
of Philip Rivers or whatever else, or bring in Daniel
(09:25):
Jones on a reclamation tour, whatever the case may be.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
You can't get to that. So go be the guy
who's prepared to go out work everybody and go do it.
Look at Brock Party. Brock Party, was mister irrelevant, stayed
in school? Did all that kind of stuff got out there?
Mister Irrelevant?
Speaker 1 (09:41):
There you go, And I'm telling you guys that these
people that are trying to tell you to get to
the pro game, that's old school way of thinking. You
are costing yourself money and frankly opportunity. Because fifty million
dollars is one year of that second deal. You got
to have your eyes not just on what's in front
(10:02):
of you, but what's five steps in front of you
and what's ten steps in front of you and Vatteymore
absolutely made the right choice to go back to Oregon.
You know what, if he gets hurt, they got an
insurance policy. You know what, if he flops, he's got
additional eligibility.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
And to our.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
Point about experience, just making it that much more likely
you're going to cash in in the NFL. If you
look at first round quarterback since two thousand and nine,
incredibly long data point here, guys, with six hundred and
thirty three attenphs or less, that's how many Dante More has.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Here's the lame out.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
Yeah, Justin Fields, Carson Wentz, Dwayne Haskins, Mitch Trubisky, Mac Jones,
Kyler Murray, Mark Sanchez, Anthony Richardson, Trey Lance, and Cam Newton.
Cam Newton's a hit, Kyler Murray, Well.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
How many? How many stamps to Cam Heather two ninety two?
But then I guess it's not counting the.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Cause that doesn't count his blend college reps that he
was getting down there at Juco ball, So he was
getting reps. That's a good point, and that's why he's
the outlier there. Who are the other names?
Speaker 3 (11:03):
Again, A bunch of guys who didn't work out, Kyler Murray,
I guess is the other closest thing to it, Fields, Wentz, Haskins, Trubisky,
Mac Jones, Sanchez, Richardson, Lance.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
Most and most of those guys didn't get to a
second deal. Justin Field's got to a micro second deal.
Cam Newton got a second arm. Excuse me, Kyler Murray
got a second deal, and now they're benched and yeah,
and then they benched him.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
They're trying to move on from him. It's just it's
it's fascinating to me.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
As you as you look at this, how people will
trade the the the real big money away for for
what they think is a temporary binary choice. It's not
just about there's there's it's a chain of events. There's
a sequence of events behind this. And if you are
not guaranteed to be the number one overall pick, it
doesn't make I.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Mean, if you can stay stay in school. Dante Moore
might not be.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
The second quarterback drafted whenever he comes out now, but
I I I'd be willing to bet you he is
significantly better positioned to make more money long term, and
he won't lose anything by making nine and a half
million dollars this year and the last quarterback we were
having this conversation about. I think it's worth noting is
JJ McCarthy, who's probably the worst quarterback draft pick of
(12:18):
these last two years. Like, the tide is very clearly
turned towards and it's the whole parcels system. You know.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
You want guys.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
Thirty games, thirty starts, you know, thirty starts. Yeah, the
certain amount of passing attempts, the yards. I think it's
looking more critical now than ever.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
Yeah, I like, for me, I want somebody who's got
thirty starts.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
A thousand passing attempts, a thousand dropbacks minimum. You know,
you start to look at that kind of stuff as
the guys who have those things, and they're just more successful.
There's no substitute for reps. And when I say that,
people are like, well, it's not a pro stuft doesn't matter.
Doesn't matter if it's a pro style offense or not
recognizing what's happening on the other side of the.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Light of Screammage he's so vital.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
I mean even today because development he's hindered as much
as it is a lot of what people are doing
is not you know, you got pure pass progressions and
all that kind.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Of not even the way that they coach offense.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Is different now because guys aren't record, they don't recognize
what's on the other side of the they don't get
enough reps, they don't recognize what's on this It's part
of the reason that I was so adamant that Pat
Maholmes was absolutely gonna be the dude.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
Back at Texas Tech.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
I looked at the trades and because he who's got
a cannon for an arm, he's mobile, he could throw
off platform. I know by the way, he's got like
two thousand dropbacks in college.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
But he's seen it. And that's the thing.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
It's not just I think the experience like it's experienced,
but it's problem solving on the job. You see these
guys like a Zach Wilson, like a JJ McCarthy when
they get you know, throw Trey Lance, when they get
thrown into these spots, and it feels so fast for them,
and you know, like Bo had a bit of that
at first, but.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
He conquered it fairly quickly.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
These guys like Justin Fields is still working with a
sun dials as his internal clock.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
I think you need to develop that in the college game.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Yeah, Pava Holmes had had Darner Darner eighteen hundred dropbacks
when you count, because some of those were rushing, you know,
RPO type stuff.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
But it snaps where you're over there observing.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
And you're gonna be a primary ball handler on a play,
whether that's a whether that's a pass, attempt to rush,
a sack, whatever, like, where you're the primary ball handler
of the play.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
There's no substitute for those those reps.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
There's no there's no there isn't And when you get there,
people are like, well, you get to the program, you
get coach up, dude, as a second or third stringer,
you are not getting reps. Brett Rippon would get like
five reps. He's like, I get three to five reps
in practice and that was it, dude. I mean, you know,
and Brett didn't have the strongest arm and all kind
of stuff. But what I'm trying to get at is
(14:42):
when you're the third string quarter, you're not getting reps.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Looks at the shra Door story this year. Yeah, the
second Yeah, the third string guy wasn't getting reps.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
The second string guy's barely getting reps because you have
such limited practice time.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
Thanks to the CBA.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
Now the coaches want to get the maximum amount the
starters that they can, and I don't blame them. The
NFL is just a different product than it used to
be twenty years ago in terms of how you have
to coach it, how you have to scout it, what
you're looking for, even though are the physical archetypes in
quarterbacks are what you were looking for twenty years ago.
Twenty years ago you wanted six foot six, two hundred
(15:18):
and twenty five pounds of rocket arm, and now you're
fine if they're six foot two ten and you're looking
for four to six or better mobility on top of
the ability to place the ball accurately.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
Yeah, you're sacrificing that standing strong in the pocket for
the mobility and the flexibility, the ability to maneuver around.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
And I also think those moments are things that require reps.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
Like I don't think you can like Richard Anthony Richardson,
you know, I think has been all over the place
with accuracy and whatnot, because it's just it's too fast.
You need a lot of reps to dial this stuff.
It's the hardest position in sports. It's not gonna and
you don't get an opportunity anymore to learn on the job.
There's no more drafting the guy and letting him sit
for a year barring extreme excitab Well, I mean, Mahomes
(16:03):
got to sit for a year behind Alex Smith because
they already had a core competency quarterback there. Josh Allen
is the other exception in the sense that they brought
him in and just kind of let him. But Josh
Allen had a lot of reps in college between Juco
and a couple of years at Wyoming. Like, Josh had
the tools and had the reps and had an organization
that knew they were in for a three year build
and were committed to that the minute he walked in
(16:24):
the door. You know, this wasn't like with the Anthony
Richardson situation, where he got what a year and a half,
you know, and then you're like, what are we doing here?
Speaker 2 (16:32):
This guy's not ready at all. And so it's it's
fascinating to me how many.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
People push back against the idea that Dante Moore shouldn't
have gone back to school. He sacrificed fifty million dollars
to make ten out. He's looking at the one hundred
and fifty. That's what he's looking at. He secured the ten,
and he's willing to flip the fifth and willing to
do a coin flip on the fifty that he might
still get to position himself better for the one hundred
(16:57):
and fifty two hundred and fifty the road Broncos Country
the night back after this so short show post CEU
Buffsmen's basketball edition obvio see, Cincinnati held on to uh
beat the buff seventy seven sixty eight and dropping the
Buffs to twelve and five on the season.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Cincinnati moves to nine and eight, gets above five hundred.
Short show obviously as it is, but we appreciate you
guys being along the ride. And with that, let's get
some NFL six pack. It's time for the NFL six pad.
I'm gonna tak it off insight and insight information you
can't find anywhere else, I know, the top six NFL headline.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
What started off here with ESPN releasing their rankings of
the NFL rookie classes so far and how they did
in their first seasons.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
In the league. They ranked to Broncos. Surprisingly, I think
at seventeen. It's right in the middle of the NFL.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
Do you think that reflects that fans are underrating this
draft class and what are your expectations for this proper
rookies next season?
Speaker 1 (18:10):
Well, I think you expect him to have a bigger
bite next season. I think it's a fair rating. What
would why would anybody say that they deserve to be
any higher? R J. Harvey really hasn't shown that he
can consistently run the ball. He's had a few explosives
and you know, got the gaudy' touchdown numbers, but other
than that, I mean Baron, I mean, he's been out there,
(18:32):
but he hasn't really been a big factor.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Pat Bryant.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
I thought he was kind of starting to come into
his own for a second there before the concussion, but
then you know, he's just been a non factor since
uh Saian Jones has been mostly a non factor. Will
has been a good one on the field, but fairly
on the field because he's the fifth edge rusher.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Whatever, right, Crawshaw, cross Shaw. I mean, it's been some
hits or missus with him.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
I think he's finally you know, it was that game
I thought we were gonna fire him the Y I
thought he was done. Yeah, but he founced back off
at I think Crosshaw has been you know, I mean,
cross Shaw is probably the most productive member of your
rookie class. I mean, I get people gonna say RJ.
But when all said and done, that said, you know,
I mean, what are we doing here? This was not
(19:17):
you know, this wasn't the crown Jewel. This was a
depth draft class that on purpose and you know, I mean, frankly,
that's what it turned out to be.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Yeah, they definitely built up the depth.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
And I was surprised to see a ranked this high
honestly based on how you kind of laid out.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
They they didn't have a ton of rookie impact.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
Your your most impactful rookie only true, you know, season
long starter is a punter, you know, and then r J.
Harvey is only a starter because of injury relief, right,
you know. It's it's I'm kind of surprised they were
even at the middle of the league. I think it
points to maybe as a whole, this this year's NFL
draft class hasn't been overly impactful. If that many teams
(19:53):
have had less impact from their rookie class. Yeah, I
don't know, I haven't sat down and wranked them.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
But I would say, yes, that that seems fair on
the surface.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
Two.
Speaker 3 (20:06):
A panel of edvel dot com writers ranked the Denver
Broncos as the team with the second worst chance of
winning the Super Bowl among the eight remaining teams. They
ranked only ahead of the beat up of San Francisco
forty nine ers. The Broncos, also, by the Vegas odds makers,
have the fifth best.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
Betting notts to win the Super Bowl.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
Do you think the Broncos are being underrated in terms
of their championship hopes by either the media or.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
The odds makers. That's fascinating to me. They think the
Bears have better odds to make the Super Bowl than
the Broncos. That one to win it. That one was
shocking to me too. Yeah, that seems weird to me.
I would say the Niners.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
I get it because their injury stuff, although I would
say on a neutral site they'd be favored against us. Yeah,
the Bears should not have better odds otherwise I get it,
completely get it. I think just about everybody else to
be favored as you run on the list. I can't
think of anybody that wouldn't be.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
On a neutral site.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Yeah, a neutral site would be maybe Houston. I think
I would honestly probably put there like the same odds.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
I think the.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
Broncos offense is slightly better than Houston's. I think their
defense is slightly less than Houston's. But I think they're
both in the same tiers on both, you know. But yeah,
the Bears and Niners i'd put by, and then everybody
else I would say on a neutral field would be favored,
and I generally agree that my counter would be at
least on the AFC side of things, they won't be
playing on a neutral field.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
They'll be playing here in Denver.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
And if we're ranking teams by how confident we are
they could win a Super Bowl, I feel like that's
an important factor.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
Well, I think the narrative on Denver is either going
to flip or be solidified on Saturday. Honestly, I would
agree it doesn't matter even if the Buffalo Weed is ugly, Like,
the narrative will flip at that point because you beat
a team of substance, which they haven't really done since
I mean, I guess you count the Packers, although they
lost Parsons and they never won a game once they
lost Parsons so, and I think that game did kind
(22:02):
of change the narrative. It's just you followed it up
with the Jags game, right, and I think enough people
saw the two touchdowns score, even if it was closer
than that for a lot of the game.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
And then you had the laughers.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
Against the snooze fest against the backup quarterbacks that I mean,
you can't really what do we get.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Out of that? Exactly?
Speaker 3 (22:16):
And those were nationally broadcasted games where you know, the
Christmas game and then the Jim and Tony game for
a week eight.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
Game, then we're getting them again. Yeah, how long until
they replaced JJ replaced them with JJ, Watt and Eagle.
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
But Tony, like I did a whole thing on that
the other day, where like I was talking about that,
like Tony Tony Romo.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
The reason he was good his first year wasn't he
was predicted plays.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
It was because he had an infectious energy, right, you
could tell he still loved football, and it just does
not feel like he loves football anymore.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
And beyond like the predicting plays, he knew what he
was talking about. He opened up the game. You know,
this past weekend on a whole spiel about how underdogs. Yeah,
the Jags maybe surprised people like the Panthers almost did
yesterday when they were favorites.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
Crazy, utterly unbelievable.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
Three.
Speaker 3 (23:06):
We have nine NFL head coach openings, with the Pittsburgh
Steelers job recently opening up. Of those nine, just a reminder,
that's the Arizona Cardinals, Atlanta Falcons, Baltimore Ravens, Cleveland Brown's,
Las Vegas Raiders, Miami Dolphins, New York Giants, Pittsburgh Steelers,
and Tennessee Titans. Of those nine, which two are the
most appealing and which two are the least appealing.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
Well, the most appealing are Baltimore Pittsburgh period.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
Yes, and that's just because of the support, organizational infrastructure
and patients those organizations have. That doesn't even include a
roster talent, and they both have talent and all that
kind of stuff. Baltimore's got a quarterback, Pittsburgh's got to
get one. But otherwise that's why those are the most appealing.
The next tier is probably Atlanta, the New York Giants,
(23:55):
maybe maybe Tennessee creeps in there, although they've got some
ownership issues and front office issue I'm not sure.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
And then of course you've got the Raiders, and then
you've got uh. After that, then you get one Cleveland, and.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
Then you've got not having a job, and then you've
got the UFL uh. And then you've got professional flag football,
and then you've got Pop Warner ball uh.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
And then you've got the Arizona Cardinals. I mean, I
don't blame you.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
They they rank with like an F rating and all
those NFLPA things annually for a good reason.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
Yeah, well, it'll be tough to see vance Joseph.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
Go, there are we gonna Oh man, that'll break my heart,
but I'll be glad to get the third round picks.
Do you think the the NFLPA report cards will come back?
I don't think we ever saw those this year.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
We saw them the end of the year. Oh they did.
I saw saw them at the view year. I remember
a news story about.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
One of the I think it was Woody trying to
Woody Johnson with the Jets trying to block those being
released and going forward.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
Yeah, it's his thing. He wants those block because they
make him look bad.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
But uh, yeah, I think Arizona's the least desirable job,
and I do believe that they will ultimately hire Vance
Joseph because that's the only person.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
That will take that job.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
Or again, I just hope he gets that coaching jobs,
we get those traff picks to go trade for Dennis Allen.
At that point, Ravens owner Steve veshot He was holding
a press conference when the Mike Tomlin news broke and
he exclaimed, Holy s, wouldn't that be awesome if Mike
Tomlin was a coaching free agent. Of course, he's still
(25:22):
under contract with the Steelers. They'd have to trade him
to the Ravens. That seems incredibly unlikely. But if he
was a coaching free agent, how seriously do you think
the Ravens would pursue him? And who do you think
the Ravens will ultimately land In reality, I think the
Ravens will probably wind up with Jesse Minter. I think
(25:42):
ultimately that's probably while they're wind up. We'll see maybe
Cliff Kingsbury's is OC. We'll see, could be you know, it.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
Could be fun.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Yeah, well, we'll see, we'll see how that works out.
I think, you know, conceptually, I think that's kind of
where they want to be. Tomlin's gonna take the year off.
He's got a TV job wait at Fox. I know
he's taking the year off and not gonna take these jobs.
He wants to recenter himself, right, and whether or not
he ever gets back to coaching, which I believe you will,
he wants to kind of recenter himself in the sense that,
you know, the last almost decade in Pittsburgh was him
(26:11):
just going down the rabbit hole the same way the
Broncos did after the Super Bowl, where you're just trying
to patch the quarterback and oh, we can keep this going,
we keep this going.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
You get too emotionally invested.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
In your guys and don't realize that you need to
move off some guys and reset some things, and you
know that kind of stuff. And Tomlin, for to his credit,
is recognize that and it was time, you know, so
he went ahead, and you know, he pulled the plug
on that thing. And I think he wants to recenter
himself and then kind of look at the landscape and
see what's available at that point and go from there.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
And I think there's gonna be some better jobs available
next cycle. Anyway.
Speaker 3 (26:42):
Yeah, I think there should be some good jobs open
next cycle. But I also love your point about who
knows if he'll ever return. You know, it's twenty years
ago now. But when Bill Cower left and they ended
up hiring Mike Tomlin, Bill Kawer went to his studio
job with CBS with the idea that he was going
to take a break in return, and then it was like, Hey,
this TV life is pretty cushy compared to the sixty
(27:03):
hours a week I was working and I get to
spend time with my family and whatnot.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
So we'll see if he gets back into it. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
On that note, Bill Kawer almost came out of the
booth in twenty eleven to coach the Carolina Panthers, and
the only reason you just didn't at that time was
his girlfriend, who lived there in New York, just basically
talked him out of it. He was set to come
out the booth and take the Carolina job, and ultimately
they went with Ron RIVERA. Wow, that's crazy. That would
(27:31):
have been an interesting timeline.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (27:34):
Five Bucks running back for Sean White told the media
that he thinks Todd Bulls should let someone else call
the team's defensive plays going forward so that Bulls can
focus on his head coaching duties. What do you make
of those comments? And how hot is bull Seat and
Tampa going forward?
Speaker 1 (27:53):
Well, it was red hot. He was very nearly fired
this year. If they could have gotten John Harbaugh, then
he would have been fired. But ultimately Harball kind of
told him like, look, I'm not really you know, Jason
Light's a great GM, but I'm kind of looking for
my own guy or a guy I'm familiar with, which,
by the way, he may have Joe Shane for a
few months in New York if he does take that job.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
But yeah, he kind of wasn't looking for what they
were they were doing down there in Tampa, and you know,
they ended up not getting that.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
As far as this goes, it's rare that a currently
rostered running back is sitting there saying the head coach
should give up his play calling duties. Uh, that that's
pretty pretty notable. I tend to agree with him just
based on the way the defense performed. But what what
duties does Todd Bowles have outside of calling the defense
(28:39):
down there?
Speaker 3 (28:40):
I mean, this is the game management stuff that he's
absolutely terrible and the defense has been bad for two
years now.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
Yeah, but a Baker and Grizzard ran on ran the offense.
The Grizzard got fired too, but they ran the offense.
Like Todd didn't really do anything with that. Yeah, yeah, maybe,
I mean maybe, but I don't know. At the end
of the day, he's a you know, he's got one.
He's gonna be gone after next year anyway, you know,
Like that's the thing, Like he's going to rebuild his
(29:06):
whole state, flushed everybody out, He's gonna rebuild his staff.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
Most people don't want to go there because they know
it's one and done. And you know, and do you
think they could be a possible landing place for Mike
Tomlin or do you think it'll go the way of Harbaugh.
It's possible. I think Harball is gonna wind up in
New York. I think he's gonna go fake.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
I say fake, he's gonna go take these Atlanta Tennessee interviews.
And the place where you have the maximum leverage is
when you're sitting in somebody else's building or on their
tarmac and you're saying, well, here's what I want, and
if you don't give it to me, I'm going to
go take the job they're offering. That's your maximum point
of leverage. So for people wondering what Harball is doing
right now and leaving New York without the deal, that's
(29:45):
why very interesting.
Speaker 3 (29:47):
Six last one for you here, the Baltimore Ravens, one
of those openings, are reportedly working on a new deal
for Lamar Jackson. That said, considering Jackson's injury history, his
struggles this season and including some more injuries, and the
fact that he's nearing thirty, would you have any concerns
if you were one of these prospective coaching candidates about
(30:10):
giving him a long you know, at the sixty million
dollar a year, long term extension going forward.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
If you were that head coach, I would absolutely be
leery of that. You know that that's something you've got
to take into account. Over the last uh, what is it,
six years, I think only two of those he's played
a full season.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
He's definitely had had injuries.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
As far as it goes, you talk about a guy
who's gonna be he's a twenty years, twenty eight or
twenty nine right now camera, I think he just turned
he just turned Yeah, just turned twenty nine, and you're
you're going to tie up a quarter million dollars a
quarter billion dollars in in him with father time being undefeated.
Right around this point, I mean, you know, uh, we
talked about Russ's fall off in terms of athleticism and
(30:54):
all that kind of stuff, and what he became when
when it went away, uh, or when he lost the
stuff should say didn't go away, which is what he
lost to step same thing with Lamar. Lamar has never
been you know, he needs that athleticism in order to
work other elements of his game.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
I would be very hesitant at that point.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
I In fact, if I'm Baltimore, I got a new
coaching here, we might flush the whole thing and do
a rebuild, you know what I mean? We might that
might be I might take the draft picks that I
can get for Lamar at this point in the conversation
and look at the situation like, hey, you know, we
can rebuild this thing right now. Is there anybody out
there we like, is there a bridge quarterback we can
use in the interim, you know that kind of stuff.
(31:31):
I think we'd exploring all our options before I put
another because last time we got what two hundred.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
And sixty five million?
Speaker 1 (31:37):
This time you probably look at a three hundred million
dollar contract for a quarterback. That's it's basically at the end.
He's at the end of his prime now and it's
going to be declined after this.
Speaker 3 (31:45):
Yeah, to your point about Russ, Russ's collapse really started
around age thirty two to thirty three, that's usually the number.
And we're going to be tacking on years to the
deal he already has. I don't have it right in
front of me, but I imagine that's going to make
you pretty committed to this guy through at least his
age thirty five season.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
Yeah, he signed through.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
Twenty twenty seven, so through his thirty season to thirty one,
and then you're adding on to that so your decline years.
Speaker 3 (32:09):
You're going to be paying him fifty billion dollars and
with how teams are you know, pushing the money back,
you're probably paying him sixty seventy million dollar cap hits.
By the time it's all said and done and he's
at Danish quarterback, it could very easily wind up looking
like the next Russell Wilson situation.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
He's got a seventy four and a half million dollars
hit next year at a seventy four and a half
million dollars hit the following year. That's prohibitive. Yeah, and
then you're going to turn around and put attack more
on then they did it. They did twelve and a
half on void years. So the idea that you did
get away with that, and to me, I'm trading him, taking.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
The draft picks and starting over. Personally. We got as
far as we could with him. We tried Roncos Country tonight.
Appreciate you guys beat along for the ride. Well do
by this
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