August 27, 2026 • 34 mins
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks to Hall of Famer Steve Atwater for joining us
in the first hour. To study part of that, you
go to broncoscountrytonight.com slash podcast or wherever you get your podcasts, Apple, iTunes, Spotify,
the free iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Almost nailed it. Where you can get the Take Me
for Granted podcast as well.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
So if you want to check in on our old
buddy Grant Smith, he'll be coming back here in a
few weeks to get a chance to. Chat with him
about seeing if he can fire that podcast back up.
With that, let's go out to the KOA Common Spirals
hotline and bring on our guest Phil McGogan tonight, former
Denver Broncos player, former coach, a lot of different stuff,
former teammate of Nick Ferguson's.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Phil, we brought you on. You've got the dirt, right?
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Oh, yeah, I know everything about this guy. Just give
me a few minutes.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Whoa, whoa, whoa. He couldn't hit that talk button fast enough. Whoa, whoa, whoa.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Don't you worry about it.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
That's not what we're here for, Phil. That's a you
and I.
Speaker 4 (00:50):
That's not what I'm here for. That's not anybody's conversation, Phil.
We've got some specific things for you.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
The check is definitely in the mail on that. Phil,
you recently were at the St.
Speaker 5 (01:00):
Louis Battle Rocks.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
You know some people I know over there. You worked
under Anthony Becht?
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Anthony Beck and I, we were all teammates with the Jets. Bird, myself, Beck,
a bunch of guys. Good man. Good man.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Yeah, I love Coach. He sees good people.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
And you had some good receivers there with the.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Battle Hawks, too.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Denzel Mims, Andy Isabella, I think Hakeem Butler, who was
recently here with the Broncos, just recently released. What's it
like working with a group of guys like that?
Speaker 3 (01:29):
It was fun because, like, guys like Jacob Saylors, right,
are looking for that one chance. And, you know, you
feed him the ball. He's a leading rusher in the league.
And then he gets signed with the Lions and hopefully
he made the team. You know, this go-around, he made
it all last year. So that's why you do that job.
You know what I mean? You do it to help
other players get to where they want to go and
realize their dreams.
Speaker 4 (01:48):
Well, Phil, you know, the Broncos have what we call
the new signal call and play call in Davis Webb.
And we're still waiting to see how that marriage works
between he and Sean Payton.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
But you were an.
Speaker 4 (02:01):
OC with the Battle Hawks for a while yourself. I mean,
how is that or how is that going to be
for Davis Webb, you think, you know, taking over four
time duties as a play caller?
Speaker 3 (02:13):
That is hard for me to imagine. We had a
lot of split practices with the Saints when Sean was
down there with the Chargers. And it's just he would
run these meetings at night for both staffs. And it
was really interesting to see all the things that he
would talk about situationally and play calling and all that.
So for me to hear he's giving up those duties
to somebody that we actually interviewed at the Combine years ago,
(02:35):
it's like full circle. It's kind of crazy.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
What makes him such a great head coach? I mean,
what is it about him specifically? Is it the culture,
the attention to detail? What is it that separates him
from other coaches?
Speaker 3 (02:48):
Yeah, I think the culture, the attention to detail like
you mentioned, but he has an aura about him. He
carries himself. He's been like that even when he was
with Parcells as a coordinator. He used to drive those
guys crazy on the defense side of the ball, and
Bill Parcells is a big defensive guy, as we all know.
So it was just one of those things where he
was kind of anointed as one of the young play callers,
like the first Sean McVay type guy, and he didn't disappoint.
Speaker 4 (03:13):
Now, the Broncos have, I would say, a stacked wide
receiver room. And just addition of Jalen Waddle has definitely
changed things as far as the ability to attack down
the field explosively.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
But with you being a receiver coach, and you were
a receiver coach in this division when you coached with
the Chargers.
Speaker 4 (03:31):
What do you think, from your standpoint, that he adds
to the Broncos that maybe we haven't.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Really discussed thus far?
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Yeah, I really like his double moves and his great speed,
his elite speed down the field. He's a find-a-way finish guy,
so he can catch a slant. And if you don't
take the proper angle safeties, I don't know if Steve
there for a while, and you, Nick, if you don't
take the proper angles, they're going to make you pay
and score. So that's what I really like about Waddle,
that deep threat. And he's a great person. Who doesn't
(04:00):
love that celebration of touchdown dance?
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Yeah, absolutely. That's one. Talking with Phil McGogan here.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
Phil, you were on the, if I remember correctly, the
2015 Miami staff, I call Head Coach University, when they
had Zach.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Taylor and Rizzy.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
And all those guys, Ben Johnson on there.
Speaker 5 (04:17):
Yeah, Dan Campbell.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Did you know, when you saw those guys, did any
of them jump.
Speaker 5 (04:22):
Out at you as like, that guy's going to be
head coach someday?
Speaker 3 (04:25):
Yes, it was Ben. Ben was actually, he was the
lowest position on our entire staff. He was like the
offensive quality control to the quality control, you know, to
the assistant, to the regional manager, you know, and I
think he was being paid hourly, you know, it was crazy,
you know, like what he did and how long he
did it for, but like, I just kind of– I
(04:47):
have so much respect for Ben, and I knew– I
visited him out in Detroit a few times over the years.
He's just a wonderful, wonderful coordinator, and obviously now he's
a great head coach leading that team to a playoff
appearance in his first year with a guy who a
lot of people wrote that quarterback off. You know that.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Yeah, yeah, they did. Well, you know what? Here's to,
you know, the conversation.
Speaker 4 (05:08):
Of writing people off because I feel as though Marvin
Mims is probably one of the more– underappreciated guys other
than Zach Allen on the defensive side of the ball
for the Broncos. But Marvin Mims, his skill set, what
he brings every time he's out there, he makes plays.
But the Broncos will find themselves in somewhat of a
difficult situation as we narrow down what this roster is
(05:29):
going to be like, especially with... The final preseason game
tomorrow against Minnesota. When you look at that situation with
Marvin Mims, and they got a stacked room. Pat Bryant
is in there. Troy Franklin, we just talked about. You know,
Jalen Waddle. And LaJuan Humphrey's in that room. If you
are the Denver Broncos, how are you eyeing the situation.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
With Marvin Mims?
Speaker 3 (05:49):
Yeah, the first thing I'm doing is just shutting down
Cortland and Jalen Waddle in the one and two, right?
Now I'm looking at the rest of the roster going
over those last days. I really need to trust these people.
Are I going to block the right people? They catch
the ball in traffic. So we start to look at
a lot of the different intangibles. So you're looking at
Troy Franklin. He had the most statistics coming in last year.
I love what Mims can do, but this is the
National Finance League as well, and he's in a contract here.
(06:12):
All right, so Mims is going to make a pro
ball as a kickoff returner. They have Troy Franklin, and
they also have Brian, Pat Brian, for another two years, right?
And Marvin's up after this year. So not that Marvin
isn't a great player. I think he is. And I
think he'll be an unbelievable returner again. But I think
they have enough depth with those other players that he'll
be right around his usual 30, 40 catches, gadget catches,
(06:34):
and things like that.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Talk with Phil McGogan.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Phil, listen, you've been around a lot of good and
great receivers.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
What makes a great receiver?
Speaker 3 (06:45):
Well, I'll talk to Allen just the way his mind
for coverage. It's like he opens up his vision to
an absurd amount. He can see the entire field, coverage, rotation,
all that. He's like a savant with the plays. He
knows everybody's assignment, the depth, the quarterback's progression, the drops.
So he's really, really prepared. And then he's got great
(07:06):
functional movement skills. He can change direction, catches the ball
in traffic. He's a guy who's durable and available. And
those are two things I really, really harp on.
Speaker 4 (07:13):
Now, we've seen the landscape of college football definitely change.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Since you and I were in college, right?
Speaker 4 (07:20):
We got pro players trying to go back to the
college game. But the most important part is the NIL
and the transfer portal. Now, if you were still coaching
on a collegiate level, because once upon a time you
were a wide receiver coach for the CU Buffs, how
would you handle that situation with the idea of trying to,
I guess, recruit your own players every single year or
(07:43):
after every single game.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
How does that work?
Speaker 3 (07:46):
It's a minute-to-minute thing. I mean, you know, it's just
what it is. I don't run to non-regulated environments, and
college football is just a while less. You know, I
like regulation. I like salary caps. You know, I like
days off. I like things to be a certain way
for everybody in a level playing field, and this is
just a complete catastrophe. I'm so... far against these players
(08:09):
going to the NFL and coming back, all these things. Really,
right now, the college football coach, they are getting killed
right now. It is a rough go-round. I've talked to
hundreds of them, and they're miserable.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
Doug McGagan, former NFL wide receiver and including Denver Broncos
and a coach as well. You know, something when, when
the NIL stuff, when the NIL started flooding in, one
of the things that at the time I pointed out,
it was kind of laughed at. It was like, look,
you're going to have kids eventually deciding whether or not
to stay in school for the money. And it feels
like we've crossed that threshold now. There are there are
(08:41):
guys that are staying in school for the money. But
isn't that isn't that a boon for some of them?
Like some of these quarterbacks that have come out over
the years didn't get enough reps.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
Right.
Speaker 5 (08:50):
And you're not going to get those reps when you
get to the pro game.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
You got to be ready to go. Isn't this a
boon for some of these guys? Could a guy like
Anthony Richardson have benefited from.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
Maybe staying in school, maxing out his eligibility and getting
those reps and.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Becoming a great quarterback?
Speaker 3 (09:03):
I love that. You know who I coached? I coached
Zay Jones. He's going on his 11th year in the NFL.
I coached him at ECU. He had 158 catches in
one season, and he was a senior, and he could
have left. And I remember talking to him, like, do
you want to come back and do something special? He's like,
I want to break the reception record. So you have
to want to come back for something if you have
a second-round, third-round grade on the table when you're 21
(09:24):
years old.
Speaker 4 (09:26):
Phil, you know, we have an excellent corner here in
the Mile High City. The NFL does its top 100 players,
and he ended up in top 10. I think he
should have been higher than that. And the guy I'm
talking about is Pat Sertan. So as a wide receiver coach,
you know, and you've seen him play, and you know
what he can do. How do you coach against a
(09:48):
guy who is great at the line of scrimmage like
PS2 is?
Speaker 3 (09:53):
And we would just try to do all of our
fundamentals that week. We would really emphasize our line of scrimmage,
our combat releases.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Trying to move a guy off the spot.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
And then we would substitute at a greater rate and
run a little bit more deep routes, try to get
him running and running and running and wearing him down,
collecting him deep down the field on some screen places,
trying to dump him. Just play rough with him. I mean,
he's just so good. There's nothing you can really do.
You're not going to go run an 18-yard comeback. I
remember going against, like, guys like Champ Bailey and stuff
like that. It's a no-fly zone with Mr. Tankett, for sure.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Talking with Phil McGagan, former NFL wide receiver and coach
at multiple professional and the college ranks. What is your biggest,
I don't want to say bugaboo, but what's the biggest
mistake you see receivers making out there that you're watching
it and you're like, oh, I just want to correct
this thing out.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Of this receiver?
Speaker 3 (10:39):
Yeah, I think sometimes just looking at their efficiency, at
their stance and start, just knowing how important. Like, this
is a game of inches, right? So you need to
be locked in your stance like it's the track blocks
at the 100-meter dash at Usain Bolt's next to you
in Beijing, right? So you see guys in these casual stance.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
It looks like me.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
We're at the county fairway for kettle corn. Like, we
got to get off the line of scrimmage now. But
that's my point. The stance we start with is so efficient.
It needs to be moving down the track at such
a rapid speed. If you're not in the locked and
loaded position, it just doesn't work.
Speaker 4 (11:12):
Now, here's what I know playing for Mike Shanahan and
his offense from a wide receiver standpoint. One, you have
to be able to block on the perimeter. Two, you
can't have a lot of drops. Now, this team had
a significant amount of drops last year, if I'm not mistaken.
Jacksonville was number one, and the Broncos were number two.
From a receiving standpoint, from your vantage point, coaching the position.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 4 (11:35):
What are some of the things that lead to receivers
kind of dropping passes, like explosive plays?
Speaker 2 (11:42):
I know 50-50 balls. I mean, that's tough.
Speaker 4 (11:45):
But what do you think has probably led to the
Broncos having so many drops?
Speaker 3 (11:50):
A drop is a drop is a drop. You should
make that catch where one hand slicks off your finger.
We're talking about real drops here. There's two types of them, Nick.
There's your concentration drop. That's the most common. It's when
your eyes turn before the ball gets there. You don't
look all the way into the tuck. You don't have
the 10 digits on a good frame. Catching the ball
high and tight, quick to the tuck, that's a concentration drop.
(12:12):
There's like six or seven different components to catch a
ball correctly, and you miss one of those components and
the ball ends up on the ground. Do you not
agree with that?
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
Now, the second one is less common, but there's a
good old thing, and you understand this, courage drops. So
concentration or courage drops. And you've seen people make those
business decisions across the middle, Nick. Yes, I've seen them.
Speaker 4 (12:35):
I mean, when you've got a guy like myself, Brian Dawkins,
Steve Atwood, and John Lynch, you start making business decisions.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
Yeah, you've got to have myself out there. I'm not
trying to, you know, I'm trying to still.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
Be able to walk. Did you say yourself, the only
business that I would ask you for is who's paying
for dinner?
Speaker 2 (12:54):
I love it. Oh, yeah. That's the business I'm in.
That's the business I'm making right there. I'll pay for dinner.
I'm not catching that, Paul.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
Nope.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
I'm good. I'm good. Somebody else do it. My 510-178,
getting that one.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
That's funny. That's good stuff.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Phil, hey, man, it was an absolute pleasure to have
you on. We've got to have you on again here soon.
I need the dirt on Ferg here because he's over here.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
Why do you keep trying to find dirt?
Speaker 3 (13:18):
Mr.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
Clean over here, Nick Ferguson, you know, everybody knows my business,
but we've got to get some of his out there.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
Well, here's what Phil knows, right? There is a written...
There's a written and unwritten rule, Phil. I'll write the check.
He knows that rule, too.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
I need to clear first. That check needs to clear.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
It's coming on my account. It ain't bouncing.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
The ball might bounce on the turf, but that check
ain't bouncing. Hey, Phil, we really appreciate the time tonight.
I look forward to having you on again soon, brother.
Appreciate you, Phil.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
All right. Sounds good. Thank you. All right, Coach.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Take care.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Phil McGowan, former NFL wide receiver, former teammate of Nick Ferguson,
coach all over the place.
Speaker 5 (13:56):
And, man, that was a good time. I got to
turn this mic on.
Speaker 4 (14:00):
I wanted to have Phil on because his level of
expertise in breaking down the offensive side of the ball,
I thought it was key, especially understanding where the Broncos
are trying to get to offensively and getting his perspective
on what it is that he sees. From a 30,000-foot view,
being away from the game, but being a spectator and
(14:23):
loving the team as well, just trying to get his
frame of mind and put the fan base, our listeners,
you know, give them something to go away with as
they look to this upcoming season. But more importantly, looking
to a pivotal game tomorrow where so many guys are
going to be competing to save their football livelihood.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Yeah, Phil's got to get a job here soon.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
He's been on too many staffs, too many good staffs,
coached too many good wide receivers to be sitting there
and wasting time with us on weeknights.
Speaker 4 (14:53):
Phil and I actually coached against one another when I
was with the 49ers. This is where when the charges
were playing in a small little Carson, California. And it
was so good to see him. Obviously, he's been coaching
a lot longer than than I have. But it was
so good to see him and seeing what he was
able to do. And like Keenan Allen, Keenan Allen was
(15:14):
one of the guys that he coached. And I told him,
I say, man, Keenan Allen wasn't a speed demon. But
when it came to running some of the best routes
that I've.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Ever seen, he would snap off of.
Speaker 4 (15:25):
There's two guys right now in the league that I
feel are one of the best two runners.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
That's... Allen himself, and then, oh, I'm drawing a blank
on his name. What team?
Speaker 3 (15:38):
The Rams.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Not Minakua, Devontae Adams. There you go. Thank you. Thank
you for that.
Speaker 4 (15:43):
Those two guys, man, they run some of the best
routes that I've ever seen because they can get in
and out.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
I say, and I'm on Ross St. Brown to that list. But, yeah,
they're just guys that can snap you off.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
And they drop the hips and gear down, and they
can explode right back out of it.
Speaker 5 (15:57):
Kind of seeing a lot of that on the Jalen
Wadland training camp this year.
Speaker 4 (16:00):
And once again, that was another reason I want to
feel because he can talk to those expertise. What does
that truly mean for to have a guy that has
that capability?
Speaker 2 (16:10):
Because not every team has a Jalen Wadland.
Speaker 4 (16:13):
And I understand why the Broncos, why Sean Payton wanted
him in this office.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
And I can't wait to see what happens next. In
Kansas City. Yeah, I'm with it, too. We've got to
hit a break. We'll come back. We'll react to that.
Speaker 5 (16:28):
Get into some of the preview of the preseason game.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Against the Minnesota Vikings tomorrow. You guys, this is the
Broncos Country Night here on KOA. Thanks to Steve Atwater
and Phil McGogan for joining us.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
It was a fun interview. Nick, I'm glad you lined
that up. Get your former teammate on there. He's good people.
Speaker 4 (16:47):
Yeah, he's good people, full of great information. And he
almost broke the carton rule. You almost got him to crack.
You just saw a little crease in the door. You
tried to put your foot in it. And I had
to remind him.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
No, no, no, no, no, no.
Speaker 4 (17:03):
See, there's an unwritten code, right? The whole thing about
what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. It's kind of
a code like that between players. We can't let someone
else come between us.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
But we're not in Vegas.
Speaker 4 (17:15):
Well, no, we're not in Vegas. But the same rule applies.
You cannot start to divulge information.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
Right?
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Fill the check in the mail. When you shouldn't divulge information.
So we're going to keep it like that.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
I'm going to keep that bit going, though. Every time
we're going to try to get dirt on Nick Ferguson.
There's probably no dirt to have. There's no dirt. If
there is, we're going to find it.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
What dirt are you really looking for?
Speaker 3 (17:37):
Anything.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
I don't know. I don't know what we'll find. If
there was some dirt, how would you, in fact, try
to utilize it?
Speaker 5 (17:44):
This dude's jamming his hand up the back of Alex's.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
That edited soundbite is going to live.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
On in it for me. See, Zach, that's not dirt
on me. That's dirt on one Benjamin Albright. Working him
like a puppet.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
Benjamin Albright there is accusing you of that.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
Yes, exactly. You're accusing me. You're the one that came
out of his mouth. You're the one that said you
go through guys and use them to make the tackle. Yeah,
that's me pushing them. And I said that when Steve
was on.
Speaker 4 (18:18):
Pushing them into a would-be receiver or guy or fullback.
And then I come and make the tackle. That's how
I described it. But your depiction was something else.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
I mean, that's a whole different.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
Level, right?
Speaker 2 (18:35):
I didn't even say that.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
I don't even know where that came from. I.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Me and being ridiculous.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
That's, that's where it came from as usual being, being
utterly ridiculous. I, uh, no, but thanks for, thanks for
lining that up. Phil was, uh, we're looking to, uh,
we're looking to have him on here, uh, again soon.
I don't know if you, uh, Nick, you sent, uh,
I think you guys sent this one earlier today.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
Um, Nick Saban. Okay. That's not what you call him.
That'd be Nick Saban. By the way, this promo image
does look like he's dressed in a red. There's flames everywhere.
So I have to do a double take. Is that
saying Satan or Saban?
Speaker 3 (19:13):
Right.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
Six episodes of Saban, although some will modify the B
to a T, premiere October 8th.
Speaker 5 (19:20):
On the ESPN app.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
You guys going to watch the Nick Saban? I will
totally watch that. I'm definitely going to watch. I don't
know about Zach.
Speaker 4 (19:28):
I don't know if Zach is going to watch it,
but I'm going to watch it.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Oh, I'm thrilled for that.
Speaker 5 (19:32):
I'm going to be watching it when it comes.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Out every night. Okay.
Speaker 5 (19:36):
Well, I guess all, is it only eight episodes total
or there's eight, six episodes.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
Six episodes, yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Six episodes of the show premiere.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Which is what they did for Manly Arena. The Tom
Brady thing.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
Well, I'm not sure how many total episodes there are,
but it says six episodes premiere.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
So is that all six? Is that the whole thing?
That's a good question.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
Yeah, whether they're dropping it all at once or they
drop the first six and then a weekly rollout after that,
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
Hmm.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Okay. Well, yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
Anyway, I will be tuned in for the Nick Saban documentary,
whatever that is.
Speaker 4 (20:06):
I'm going to watch because I want to see some
of the stories. The players are going to have stories,
but more importantly, the coaches. Because I remember Lane Kiffin
was talking several years ago, and he said that when
you coach for a guy like Nick Saban, and they
(20:26):
had a game where they actually demolished the other team.
but it seemed like he was more pissed than anything, right?
Speaker 2 (20:35):
And I understand. Where it came from.
Speaker 4 (20:38):
I understand the source material as to why he's this way.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
Oh, yes.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
So, now, Saban, if.
Speaker 4 (20:46):
You're talking about coaching trees and you start connecting the dots,
where does Saban coach, right? He spent time with Bill
Belichick in Cleveland. Bill Belichick spent time with who? Bill Parcells, right?
And even Sean Payton has gone through an iteration of
this himself, being around Parcells, and I've seen it myself.
(21:07):
When you're not performing well, your coach is going to
kind of get on you.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
Right.
Speaker 4 (21:11):
When you perform even better than that, they're going to
get on you. And the reason being because they don't
want you to become complacent. And there's a frame of
mind from the guys that they've learned it from.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
You have to make sure.
Speaker 4 (21:24):
You get on your coaches, you get on your players
to let them know, hey, this is the level of
play we.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
Expected from you.
Speaker 4 (21:30):
We don't want to kind of overpraise you to a
point you become complacent. And we do know complacency is
a real thing in sports. Now, I would say that
Nick Saban's approach, as well as Bill Parcells, sometimes can
be a little chaotic at times, because I believe that
when players play well, coaches coach well, validate them a little.
(21:54):
But it just seems like there's this thing that we
can't let them get too high.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
They just can't do it.
Speaker 3 (21:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
Now, Terrell, run the route again.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
Damn it, it's cut.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
You guys at home can't see this. I'm going to
show you a picture here real quick. This is the
sidelines at the 2013 Senior Bowl. The guy in the
red jacket there is Nick Saban. I'll zoom in on
that so you can see Nick Saban there. And I
was there on the sidelines at the practice watching Senior
Bowl practice, as one does. And Ryan Swope, the wide
receiver out of Texas A & M, ran an out route,
(22:28):
and ran directly into me, standing on the sideline there.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
He hung on to the ball. How did you allow
that to happen? I was just watching the play, watching
the play. I was like, oh, he's right. Oh, yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
Knocked me over on my back. So he hung on
to the ball, made the catch through the tackle that
I made there. And his hand reaches down to pick
me up and pull me up.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
And it was Nick Saban. And they, like, pulled me up.
He actually helped you up. Yeah, helped me up.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
He had a smiley, a genial, everything like that. And
I believe in that moment we locked eyes and I
committed my firstborn to Alabama.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
A boy that you don't have.
Speaker 4 (23:03):
I would have thought that in a situation like that,
he would have said something to you.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
No, he was going to get the hell out of
the way. Well, he wasn't coaching that.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
He was just on the sideline observing, and so he
was having himself kind of a day. He was kind
of holding court there. He was being pretty genial and
cracking jokes. He was the other side of Nick Saban,
sort of the side you see.
Speaker 4 (23:21):
A little bit.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
That you really don't see that very often.
Speaker 5 (23:23):
Yeah, he was cracking jokes or anything like that.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
He made a joke. He'd say, hey, you wrapped him
up and got him to the ground. It's a tackle, right?
Probably your first official.
Speaker 4 (23:35):
tackle yes unofficial tackle well yes but he was like
we might have room for you at corner and i
was like coach you haven't seen.
Speaker 5 (23:40):
My uh my speed or lack thereof you got no.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Room for me at corner and uh that was that
was basically the end of the exchange but that was
my that's my experience that's my nick saban story but.
Speaker 4 (23:47):
You know what that's going to be a be great
because there's so many coaches that come from that because
brit key who played at georgia tech who's now georgia
tech head coach he was on that staff at alabama
lane kiffin steve sarkisian If I'm not mistaken, Kurt Cignetti,
who coaches Indiana.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
He was on that staff.
Speaker 4 (24:08):
And if you ever listen to most of those guys talk,
with the exception of Lane.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Kiffin, Lane is kind of, he's a little different.
Speaker 4 (24:17):
But a lot of those other guys, they speak and
they talk about football a little different.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
And they speak with.
Speaker 4 (24:25):
A no-nonsense type of flair to the comments that they make. Like,
the comments that Sean Payton makes with the Denver media,
you know, the media is chuckling up, and I sit
there and I'm going like, man, he's really giving it
to you guys in a certain way, the way that
only Sean Payton can do it, which is entirely different
(24:45):
than I've ever seen Parcells do it.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
Because Parcells, he's cutthroat. Yeah. Yeah, he was.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
And then everybody's got different ways of motivating people, but
that motivation game from some of these coaches is difficult
because you want to motivate a guy to be better
than he was when he's down.
Speaker 5 (25:02):
But as you talked about, you don't want him to
get complacent either.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
So it's kind of like riding a guy either way,
but you've got to find a way to balance it.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
Parcells did not care.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 4 (25:12):
Even if your mother was standing next to you, Ben, he's.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Going to keep it 100. And he's going to tell
her about you.
Speaker 4 (25:22):
Maybe not in the way that she may like it,
but some players, some people don't like it. It took
me a minute to really understand what he was doing.
But once you understand it, it doesn't really bother you
because he's trying to get the best out of you.
And in his mind, he's not giving you any grace
(25:42):
because no matter what you do, it was never good enough.
Because a young Nick Ferguson, I was terrified of him
at first.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
And then I.
Speaker 4 (25:51):
Realized what he was attempting to do. And each coach
has their own way, like you said, trying to motivate players.
Because the idea when you play this game, you have
to be self-motivated. But sometimes you got to have a
coach who's going to light a fire on you. Like
Tower Inferno under you. And Bill Parcells definitely was that
(26:13):
type of person. And he was capable of doing it. 56690,
the text line.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
I'll see here. Will you guys be on the air
3 p.m. tomorrow?
Speaker 1 (26:19):
Yes, we will.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
Myself and Nick Ferguson. Broncos game day. Broncos game day.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
We'll give way to Broncos countdown to kickoff at 5 p.m.
with Ryan Edwards.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
And, of course, the call, Dave Logan, Rick Lewis.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
Susie Worgen, right here on KOA at 7 p.m. Let's see. Ben,
can you mention BK on the air tonight?
Speaker 3 (26:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
Bernie Kristol was actually, I'll tell you this, Bernie Kristol
witnessed that Nick Saban story.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
He witnessed you get knocked down. And then I got
up again like Chumbawamba.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
I see.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
Get knocked down once you get up again. I still
don't understand how you saw the ball coming.
Speaker 4 (26:54):
Saw the player coming towards you, and like a moth
to a flame, you couldn't move out of the way.
Speaker 5 (26:59):
To be fair, I was more focused on the blocking
at the line.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
Tyler Wilson was the quarterback, former Arkansas quarterback, was the
quarterback throwing the pass. And I was more focused on
the blocking at the line and the rep down there
than the receiver who was snapping off and out right
where I was going to be.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
You got to keep your head on a swivel, man. Yeah,
you do. And I did not. That's what happened. I
was there was video of that.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
Somebody at the time, I'm sure, had it. Because the
video of the rep, everybody was getting videoed. I don't
know who would still have it. Who was that guy
that got knocked down over there? I tell you what,
if you go.
Speaker 3 (27:34):
I.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
Bet Jim Nagy has it.
Speaker 4 (27:39):
Don't you have a buddy who does things at the
Senior Bowl?
Speaker 2 (27:43):
Yeah, Jim Nagy. Well, he doesn't do it anymore. He's
the GM at Oklahoma now. Maybe you could talk to
him and maybe they could find it. Because I'm sure someone...
I mean, they probably have this on their phone. I'm
pretty sure.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
I'm trying to remember if Jim was doing that at
that time or if it was Phil Savage.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
I can't remember off the top of my head. But
if Jim was there... I think Jim was there that year.
Speaker 5 (28:02):
And I'm pretty sure.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
It.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
May have been Phil Savage, actually. I'm trying to remember
who was running the Senior Bowl that year.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
I still can't believe.
Speaker 4 (28:14):
Well, actually, to be totally honest, because you've actually told
a story of being run over.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
So, yeah, I can believe you can run over yet again.
Speaker 5 (28:23):
I promise you, you know. Yeah, you know, that's anyway,
that's my Nick Saban story.
Speaker 3 (28:29):
It's funny.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
Phil, I thought he made some great points talking about
receivers and what they can do and.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
What they don't do.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
In terms of optimizing themselves at the line of scrimmage,
lining up, making sure you're ready to be explosive.
Speaker 5 (28:44):
It is a game of inches.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
Every little centimeter counts the way you've lined it to
maximize yourself and your human potential.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
That was a great point about that.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
You see some guys who have all world athleticism.
Speaker 3 (28:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
But then you'd be like, well, wait a minute. Why
is this guy? I can't get off the line.
Speaker 3 (28:58):
Why?
Speaker 1 (28:58):
You know, remember, I think it was a pretty prolific
receiver for a minute. I remember Roy Williams used to
play for the Cowboys.
Speaker 3 (29:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
And he was one of those guys, and he could
not beat the jam.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
Like, once teams figured out he couldn't beat the jam,
like it was over for him, he couldn't beat the jam.
Speaker 5 (29:14):
And it was one of those, like, all the explosiveness
in the.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
World, but could not figure out how to get off
the blocks if you came up and pressed Mandan.
Speaker 4 (29:20):
Well, this is where Phil was talking about, you know,
those comeback drills.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
And that's part of getting off the line.
Speaker 4 (29:27):
And that's knowing, one, where you are in the progression,
knowing and having a plan before you get out there
on the field.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
Because if you.
Speaker 4 (29:34):
Have a slant route, right, and you know that depending
on like if you're facing a veteran corner or let's
just say a rookie corner, rookie corner you'll be able
to get inside right away. But a guy like Pat Sertan,
which I asked him about, it becomes very difficult. So
you have to be able to move your shoulder away
(29:55):
from him.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
And you've seen this before, right?
Speaker 4 (29:58):
Where you've watched guys like Devontae Adams, they take that
little slow skip off the line, and they use somewhat
of a... I would classify it as a Kyrie Irving
kind of crossover-type move, because.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
Once you.
Speaker 4 (30:12):
Go from your wide receiver stance, you're coming to balance
with both feet. So now the reason you're doing that
because it gives you a two-way go. So now guys
are lowering their shoulders, and when the DB looks to punch,
he's looking for a surface for you to give to him.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
So those guys are taught to use.
Speaker 4 (30:28):
Their hands, swipe, knock down, almost like it's karate or
something like that. Make your shoulders skinny to get inside
of him and move away and then try to stack him.
But some guys, you know, they haven't. perfected that technique.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
That was the thing. And Roy was the guy who got.
Speaker 5 (30:45):
By on athleticism until he couldn't get by on athleticism.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
But there was one of the things, cause there was,
I talked to a coach that worked with him and
he was like, he couldn't, he couldn't get the concept
of the diamond release.
Speaker 3 (30:54):
Right.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
And for those of you don't know what a diamond
release is, where you take a, as a receiver, you're
going to take three like explosive steps toward the outside
shoulder to your cell and vertical, right? When they've got
inside leverage, you're selling vertical and you snap it off.
And you're looking at it. So what'd you do when
you went on a slant?
Speaker 3 (31:09):
Right.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
Like, like that kind of stuff. And they've got inside
leverage on you. And so, but he was like, he,
he just couldn't get it. He couldn't, he could not
figure it out.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
But here's also to what I've seen too.
Speaker 4 (31:19):
And my playing in my coaching days, you see big
body wide receivers, right?
Speaker 3 (31:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (31:26):
And those guys are so big and they're so used to,
like Roy, using their strength to grab guys, tug and pull,
and then try to pull themselves through.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
But some of those.
Speaker 4 (31:38):
Guys didn't really have quick feet. And you see smaller receivers,
albeit small, like you say, like the Rams, Tutu Atwell,
who just got traded back to.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
The Rams, he's a smaller guy.
Speaker 4 (31:51):
So because he's small, he's got to be quick in
short area spaces. And like big corners sometimes struggle with
small receivers, right?
Speaker 3 (31:59):
And.
Speaker 4 (32:00):
You see this a lot, but it's learning to win
at the line of scrimmage.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
For both the DB.
Speaker 4 (32:06):
And the wide receiver, that's why that healthy competition in
practice when you work in those one-on-one drills, I'm talking
about real one-on-one drills where you're getting a lot of
competitive work out of it, that's when you see guys'
skillsets start to improve.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
Yeah, and it was just, you know, I was fascinated.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
I always love having, you know, guys like that on,
guys like Phil on, because you get a chance to
start talking a little bit of, you know, you get
into the minutia.
Speaker 3 (32:31):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
You know, you get into the football stuff. The real
technical fundamental stuff. Yeah, and it's fun to be able
to give that, you know, give that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
To the listeners and, you know, that you don't really
get anywhere else other than here on VCD.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
So I appreciate you lining that up.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
If you guys want to listen to any part of
that or the first hour of the show with Steve Atwood,
go to roccascountrynight.com slash podcast or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
Apple iTunes, iTunes, Spotify, the free iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 3 (32:52):
Nailed it.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
There we go.
Speaker 3 (32:53):
Nailed it.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
Well, where you can get taking it for granted podcast,
Grant's old archives. We're trying to shame him into, while
he's got some downtime, doesn't really have downtime right now,
into redoing, into restarting that up.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
We'll see.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
Maybe make it like a new father's podcast kind of thing.
That would be great.
Speaker 4 (33:11):
Because that would mean that now Grant and I have
more in common.
Speaker 3 (33:16):
Right?
Speaker 4 (33:16):
Because when you talk about no days off, when you
become a parent, especially when you're dealing with an infant,
no days off for real.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
Yeah, that's what he needs.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
You guys need the no days off and you guys
talk fatherhood on the podcast.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
I think that would be pretty fun.
Speaker 4 (33:31):
You know what, really quickly, I really hope this for you, Ben,
that you have the ability to become a father and
we have those conversations of you changing that first diaper.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
I've changed diapers before. I did it for my nephews. No, no, no. See,
it's different.
Speaker 4 (33:49):
When it's your kid, it's different. You can change diapers
of other people's kids. But when it's your kid, it's different.
It's a fatherly bonding experience.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
I'll call it that.
Speaker 4 (34:01):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
I'm looking forward to never doing that. We've got to
hit a break. Broncos Country Tonight, Hour 3. Back after this.
Thanks to Hall of Famer Steve Atwater for joining us
in the first hour. To study part of that, you
go to broncoscountrytonight.com slash podcast or wherever you get your podcasts, Apple, iTunes, Spotify,
the free iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Almost nailed it. Where you can get the Take Me
for Granted podcast as well.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
So if you want to check in on our old
buddy Grant Smith, he'll be coming back here in a
few weeks to get a chance to. Chat with him
about seeing if he can fire that podcast back up.
With that, let's go out to the KOA Common Spirals
hotline and bring on our guest Phil McGogan tonight, former
Denver Broncos player, former coach, a lot of different stuff,
former teammate of Nick Ferguson's.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Phil, we brought you on. You've got the dirt, right?
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Oh, yeah, I know everything about this guy. Just give
me a few minutes.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Whoa, whoa, whoa. He couldn't hit that talk button fast enough. Whoa, whoa, whoa.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Don't you worry about it.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
That's not what we're here for, Phil. That's a you
and I.
Speaker 4 (00:50):
That's not what I'm here for. That's not anybody's conversation, Phil.
We've got some specific things for you.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
The check is definitely in the mail on that. Phil,
you recently were at the St.
Speaker 5 (01:00):
Louis Battle Rocks.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
You know some people I know over there. You worked
under Anthony Becht?
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Anthony Beck and I, we were all teammates with the Jets. Bird, myself, Beck,
a bunch of guys. Good man. Good man.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Yeah, I love Coach. He sees good people.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
And you had some good receivers there with the.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Battle Hawks, too.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Denzel Mims, Andy Isabella, I think Hakeem Butler, who was
recently here with the Broncos, just recently released. What's it
like working with a group of guys like that?
Speaker 3 (01:29):
It was fun because, like, guys like Jacob Saylors, right,
are looking for that one chance. And, you know, you
feed him the ball. He's a leading rusher in the league.
And then he gets signed with the Lions and hopefully
he made the team. You know, this go-around, he made
it all last year. So that's why you do that job.
You know what I mean? You do it to help
other players get to where they want to go and
realize their dreams.
Speaker 4 (01:48):
Well, Phil, you know, the Broncos have what we call
the new signal call and play call in Davis Webb.
And we're still waiting to see how that marriage works
between he and Sean Payton.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
But you were an.
Speaker 4 (02:01):
OC with the Battle Hawks for a while yourself. I mean,
how is that or how is that going to be
for Davis Webb, you think, you know, taking over four
time duties as a play caller?
Speaker 3 (02:13):
That is hard for me to imagine. We had a
lot of split practices with the Saints when Sean was
down there with the Chargers. And it's just he would
run these meetings at night for both staffs. And it
was really interesting to see all the things that he
would talk about situationally and play calling and all that.
So for me to hear he's giving up those duties
to somebody that we actually interviewed at the Combine years ago,
(02:35):
it's like full circle. It's kind of crazy.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
What makes him such a great head coach? I mean,
what is it about him specifically? Is it the culture,
the attention to detail? What is it that separates him
from other coaches?
Speaker 3 (02:48):
Yeah, I think the culture, the attention to detail like
you mentioned, but he has an aura about him. He
carries himself. He's been like that even when he was
with Parcells as a coordinator. He used to drive those
guys crazy on the defense side of the ball, and
Bill Parcells is a big defensive guy, as we all know.
So it was just one of those things where he
was kind of anointed as one of the young play callers,
like the first Sean McVay type guy, and he didn't disappoint.
Speaker 4 (03:13):
Now, the Broncos have, I would say, a stacked wide
receiver room. And just addition of Jalen Waddle has definitely
changed things as far as the ability to attack down
the field explosively.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
But with you being a receiver coach, and you were
a receiver coach in this division when you coached with
the Chargers.
Speaker 4 (03:31):
What do you think, from your standpoint, that he adds
to the Broncos that maybe we haven't.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Really discussed thus far?
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Yeah, I really like his double moves and his great speed,
his elite speed down the field. He's a find-a-way finish guy,
so he can catch a slant. And if you don't
take the proper angle safeties, I don't know if Steve
there for a while, and you, Nick, if you don't
take the proper angles, they're going to make you pay
and score. So that's what I really like about Waddle,
that deep threat. And he's a great person. Who doesn't
(04:00):
love that celebration of touchdown dance?
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Yeah, absolutely. That's one. Talking with Phil McGogan here.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
Phil, you were on the, if I remember correctly, the
2015 Miami staff, I call Head Coach University, when they
had Zach.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Taylor and Rizzy.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
And all those guys, Ben Johnson on there.
Speaker 5 (04:17):
Yeah, Dan Campbell.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Did you know, when you saw those guys, did any
of them jump.
Speaker 5 (04:22):
Out at you as like, that guy's going to be
head coach someday?
Speaker 3 (04:25):
Yes, it was Ben. Ben was actually, he was the
lowest position on our entire staff. He was like the
offensive quality control to the quality control, you know, to
the assistant, to the regional manager, you know, and I
think he was being paid hourly, you know, it was crazy,
you know, like what he did and how long he
did it for, but like, I just kind of– I
(04:47):
have so much respect for Ben, and I knew– I
visited him out in Detroit a few times over the years.
He's just a wonderful, wonderful coordinator, and obviously now he's
a great head coach leading that team to a playoff
appearance in his first year with a guy who a
lot of people wrote that quarterback off. You know that.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Yeah, yeah, they did. Well, you know what? Here's to,
you know, the conversation.
Speaker 4 (05:08):
Of writing people off because I feel as though Marvin
Mims is probably one of the more– underappreciated guys other
than Zach Allen on the defensive side of the ball
for the Broncos. But Marvin Mims, his skill set, what
he brings every time he's out there, he makes plays.
But the Broncos will find themselves in somewhat of a
difficult situation as we narrow down what this roster is
(05:29):
going to be like, especially with... The final preseason game
tomorrow against Minnesota. When you look at that situation with
Marvin Mims, and they got a stacked room. Pat Bryant
is in there. Troy Franklin, we just talked about. You know,
Jalen Waddle. And LaJuan Humphrey's in that room. If you
are the Denver Broncos, how are you eyeing the situation.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
With Marvin Mims?
Speaker 3 (05:49):
Yeah, the first thing I'm doing is just shutting down
Cortland and Jalen Waddle in the one and two, right?
Now I'm looking at the rest of the roster going
over those last days. I really need to trust these people.
Are I going to block the right people? They catch
the ball in traffic. So we start to look at
a lot of the different intangibles. So you're looking at
Troy Franklin. He had the most statistics coming in last year.
I love what Mims can do, but this is the
National Finance League as well, and he's in a contract here.
(06:12):
All right, so Mims is going to make a pro
ball as a kickoff returner. They have Troy Franklin, and
they also have Brian, Pat Brian, for another two years, right?
And Marvin's up after this year. So not that Marvin
isn't a great player. I think he is. And I
think he'll be an unbelievable returner again. But I think
they have enough depth with those other players that he'll
be right around his usual 30, 40 catches, gadget catches,
(06:34):
and things like that.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Talk with Phil McGogan.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Phil, listen, you've been around a lot of good and
great receivers.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
What makes a great receiver?
Speaker 3 (06:45):
Well, I'll talk to Allen just the way his mind
for coverage. It's like he opens up his vision to
an absurd amount. He can see the entire field, coverage, rotation,
all that. He's like a savant with the plays. He
knows everybody's assignment, the depth, the quarterback's progression, the drops.
So he's really, really prepared. And then he's got great
(07:06):
functional movement skills. He can change direction, catches the ball
in traffic. He's a guy who's durable and available. And
those are two things I really, really harp on.
Speaker 4 (07:13):
Now, we've seen the landscape of college football definitely change.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Since you and I were in college, right?
Speaker 4 (07:20):
We got pro players trying to go back to the
college game. But the most important part is the NIL
and the transfer portal. Now, if you were still coaching
on a collegiate level, because once upon a time you
were a wide receiver coach for the CU Buffs, how
would you handle that situation with the idea of trying to,
I guess, recruit your own players every single year or
(07:43):
after every single game.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
How does that work?
Speaker 3 (07:46):
It's a minute-to-minute thing. I mean, you know, it's just
what it is. I don't run to non-regulated environments, and
college football is just a while less. You know, I
like regulation. I like salary caps. You know, I like
days off. I like things to be a certain way
for everybody in a level playing field, and this is
just a complete catastrophe. I'm so... far against these players
(08:09):
going to the NFL and coming back, all these things. Really,
right now, the college football coach, they are getting killed
right now. It is a rough go-round. I've talked to
hundreds of them, and they're miserable.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
Doug McGagan, former NFL wide receiver and including Denver Broncos
and a coach as well. You know, something when, when
the NIL stuff, when the NIL started flooding in, one
of the things that at the time I pointed out,
it was kind of laughed at. It was like, look,
you're going to have kids eventually deciding whether or not
to stay in school for the money. And it feels
like we've crossed that threshold now. There are there are
(08:41):
guys that are staying in school for the money. But
isn't that isn't that a boon for some of them?
Like some of these quarterbacks that have come out over
the years didn't get enough reps.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
Right.
Speaker 5 (08:50):
And you're not going to get those reps when you
get to the pro game.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
You got to be ready to go. Isn't this a
boon for some of these guys? Could a guy like
Anthony Richardson have benefited from.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
Maybe staying in school, maxing out his eligibility and getting
those reps and.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Becoming a great quarterback?
Speaker 3 (09:03):
I love that. You know who I coached? I coached
Zay Jones. He's going on his 11th year in the NFL.
I coached him at ECU. He had 158 catches in
one season, and he was a senior, and he could
have left. And I remember talking to him, like, do
you want to come back and do something special? He's like,
I want to break the reception record. So you have
to want to come back for something if you have
a second-round, third-round grade on the table when you're 21
(09:24):
years old.
Speaker 4 (09:26):
Phil, you know, we have an excellent corner here in
the Mile High City. The NFL does its top 100 players,
and he ended up in top 10. I think he
should have been higher than that. And the guy I'm
talking about is Pat Sertan. So as a wide receiver coach,
you know, and you've seen him play, and you know
what he can do. How do you coach against a
(09:48):
guy who is great at the line of scrimmage like
PS2 is?
Speaker 3 (09:53):
And we would just try to do all of our
fundamentals that week. We would really emphasize our line of scrimmage,
our combat releases.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Trying to move a guy off the spot.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
And then we would substitute at a greater rate and
run a little bit more deep routes, try to get
him running and running and running and wearing him down,
collecting him deep down the field on some screen places,
trying to dump him. Just play rough with him. I mean,
he's just so good. There's nothing you can really do.
You're not going to go run an 18-yard comeback. I
remember going against, like, guys like Champ Bailey and stuff
like that. It's a no-fly zone with Mr. Tankett, for sure.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Talking with Phil McGagan, former NFL wide receiver and coach
at multiple professional and the college ranks. What is your biggest,
I don't want to say bugaboo, but what's the biggest
mistake you see receivers making out there that you're watching
it and you're like, oh, I just want to correct
this thing out.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Of this receiver?
Speaker 3 (10:39):
Yeah, I think sometimes just looking at their efficiency, at
their stance and start, just knowing how important. Like, this
is a game of inches, right? So you need to
be locked in your stance like it's the track blocks
at the 100-meter dash at Usain Bolt's next to you
in Beijing, right? So you see guys in these casual stance.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
It looks like me.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
We're at the county fairway for kettle corn. Like, we
got to get off the line of scrimmage now. But
that's my point. The stance we start with is so efficient.
It needs to be moving down the track at such
a rapid speed. If you're not in the locked and
loaded position, it just doesn't work.
Speaker 4 (11:12):
Now, here's what I know playing for Mike Shanahan and
his offense from a wide receiver standpoint. One, you have
to be able to block on the perimeter. Two, you
can't have a lot of drops. Now, this team had
a significant amount of drops last year, if I'm not mistaken.
Jacksonville was number one, and the Broncos were number two.
From a receiving standpoint, from your vantage point, coaching the position.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 4 (11:35):
What are some of the things that lead to receivers
kind of dropping passes, like explosive plays?
Speaker 2 (11:42):
I know 50-50 balls. I mean, that's tough.
Speaker 4 (11:45):
But what do you think has probably led to the
Broncos having so many drops?
Speaker 3 (11:50):
A drop is a drop is a drop. You should
make that catch where one hand slicks off your finger.
We're talking about real drops here. There's two types of them, Nick.
There's your concentration drop. That's the most common. It's when
your eyes turn before the ball gets there. You don't
look all the way into the tuck. You don't have
the 10 digits on a good frame. Catching the ball
high and tight, quick to the tuck, that's a concentration drop.
(12:12):
There's like six or seven different components to catch a
ball correctly, and you miss one of those components and
the ball ends up on the ground. Do you not
agree with that?
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
Now, the second one is less common, but there's a
good old thing, and you understand this, courage drops. So
concentration or courage drops. And you've seen people make those
business decisions across the middle, Nick. Yes, I've seen them.
Speaker 4 (12:35):
I mean, when you've got a guy like myself, Brian Dawkins,
Steve Atwood, and John Lynch, you start making business decisions.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
Yeah, you've got to have myself out there. I'm not
trying to, you know, I'm trying to still.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
Be able to walk. Did you say yourself, the only
business that I would ask you for is who's paying
for dinner?
Speaker 2 (12:54):
I love it. Oh, yeah. That's the business I'm in.
That's the business I'm making right there. I'll pay for dinner.
I'm not catching that, Paul.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
Nope.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
I'm good. I'm good. Somebody else do it. My 510-178,
getting that one.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
That's funny. That's good stuff.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Phil, hey, man, it was an absolute pleasure to have
you on. We've got to have you on again here soon.
I need the dirt on Ferg here because he's over here.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
Why do you keep trying to find dirt?
Speaker 3 (13:18):
Mr.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
Clean over here, Nick Ferguson, you know, everybody knows my business,
but we've got to get some of his out there.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
Well, here's what Phil knows, right? There is a written...
There's a written and unwritten rule, Phil. I'll write the check.
He knows that rule, too.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
I need to clear first. That check needs to clear.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
It's coming on my account. It ain't bouncing.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
The ball might bounce on the turf, but that check
ain't bouncing. Hey, Phil, we really appreciate the time tonight.
I look forward to having you on again soon, brother.
Appreciate you, Phil.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
All right. Sounds good. Thank you. All right, Coach.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Take care.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Phil McGowan, former NFL wide receiver, former teammate of Nick Ferguson,
coach all over the place.
Speaker 5 (13:56):
And, man, that was a good time. I got to
turn this mic on.
Speaker 4 (14:00):
I wanted to have Phil on because his level of
expertise in breaking down the offensive side of the ball,
I thought it was key, especially understanding where the Broncos
are trying to get to offensively and getting his perspective
on what it is that he sees. From a 30,000-foot view,
being away from the game, but being a spectator and
(14:23):
loving the team as well, just trying to get his
frame of mind and put the fan base, our listeners,
you know, give them something to go away with as
they look to this upcoming season. But more importantly, looking
to a pivotal game tomorrow where so many guys are
going to be competing to save their football livelihood.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Yeah, Phil's got to get a job here soon.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
He's been on too many staffs, too many good staffs,
coached too many good wide receivers to be sitting there
and wasting time with us on weeknights.
Speaker 4 (14:53):
Phil and I actually coached against one another when I
was with the 49ers. This is where when the charges
were playing in a small little Carson, California. And it
was so good to see him. Obviously, he's been coaching
a lot longer than than I have. But it was
so good to see him and seeing what he was
able to do. And like Keenan Allen, Keenan Allen was
(15:14):
one of the guys that he coached. And I told him,
I say, man, Keenan Allen wasn't a speed demon. But
when it came to running some of the best routes
that I've.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Ever seen, he would snap off of.
Speaker 4 (15:25):
There's two guys right now in the league that I
feel are one of the best two runners.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
That's... Allen himself, and then, oh, I'm drawing a blank
on his name. What team?
Speaker 3 (15:38):
The Rams.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Not Minakua, Devontae Adams. There you go. Thank you. Thank
you for that.
Speaker 4 (15:43):
Those two guys, man, they run some of the best
routes that I've ever seen because they can get in
and out.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
I say, and I'm on Ross St. Brown to that list. But, yeah,
they're just guys that can snap you off.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
And they drop the hips and gear down, and they
can explode right back out of it.
Speaker 5 (15:57):
Kind of seeing a lot of that on the Jalen
Wadland training camp this year.
Speaker 4 (16:00):
And once again, that was another reason I want to
feel because he can talk to those expertise. What does
that truly mean for to have a guy that has
that capability?
Speaker 2 (16:10):
Because not every team has a Jalen Wadland.
Speaker 4 (16:13):
And I understand why the Broncos, why Sean Payton wanted
him in this office.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
And I can't wait to see what happens next. In
Kansas City. Yeah, I'm with it, too. We've got to
hit a break. We'll come back. We'll react to that.
Speaker 5 (16:28):
Get into some of the preview of the preseason game.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Against the Minnesota Vikings tomorrow. You guys, this is the
Broncos Country Night here on KOA. Thanks to Steve Atwater
and Phil McGogan for joining us.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
It was a fun interview. Nick, I'm glad you lined
that up. Get your former teammate on there. He's good people.
Speaker 4 (16:47):
Yeah, he's good people, full of great information. And he
almost broke the carton rule. You almost got him to crack.
You just saw a little crease in the door. You
tried to put your foot in it. And I had
to remind him.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
No, no, no, no, no, no.
Speaker 4 (17:03):
See, there's an unwritten code, right? The whole thing about
what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. It's kind of
a code like that between players. We can't let someone
else come between us.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
But we're not in Vegas.
Speaker 4 (17:15):
Well, no, we're not in Vegas. But the same rule applies.
You cannot start to divulge information.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
Right?
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Fill the check in the mail. When you shouldn't divulge information.
So we're going to keep it like that.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
I'm going to keep that bit going, though. Every time
we're going to try to get dirt on Nick Ferguson.
There's probably no dirt to have. There's no dirt. If
there is, we're going to find it.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
What dirt are you really looking for?
Speaker 3 (17:37):
Anything.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
I don't know. I don't know what we'll find. If
there was some dirt, how would you, in fact, try
to utilize it?
Speaker 5 (17:44):
This dude's jamming his hand up the back of Alex's.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
That edited soundbite is going to live.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
On in it for me. See, Zach, that's not dirt
on me. That's dirt on one Benjamin Albright. Working him
like a puppet.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
Benjamin Albright there is accusing you of that.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
Yes, exactly. You're accusing me. You're the one that came
out of his mouth. You're the one that said you
go through guys and use them to make the tackle. Yeah,
that's me pushing them. And I said that when Steve
was on.
Speaker 4 (18:18):
Pushing them into a would-be receiver or guy or fullback.
And then I come and make the tackle. That's how
I described it. But your depiction was something else.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
I mean, that's a whole different.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
Level, right?
Speaker 2 (18:35):
I didn't even say that.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
I don't even know where that came from. I.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Me and being ridiculous.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
That's, that's where it came from as usual being, being
utterly ridiculous. I, uh, no, but thanks for, thanks for
lining that up. Phil was, uh, we're looking to, uh,
we're looking to have him on here, uh, again soon.
I don't know if you, uh, Nick, you sent, uh,
I think you guys sent this one earlier today.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
Um, Nick Saban. Okay. That's not what you call him.
That'd be Nick Saban. By the way, this promo image
does look like he's dressed in a red. There's flames everywhere.
So I have to do a double take. Is that
saying Satan or Saban?
Speaker 3 (19:13):
Right.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
Six episodes of Saban, although some will modify the B
to a T, premiere October 8th.
Speaker 5 (19:20):
On the ESPN app.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
You guys going to watch the Nick Saban? I will
totally watch that. I'm definitely going to watch. I don't
know about Zach.
Speaker 4 (19:28):
I don't know if Zach is going to watch it,
but I'm going to watch it.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Oh, I'm thrilled for that.
Speaker 5 (19:32):
I'm going to be watching it when it comes.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Out every night. Okay.
Speaker 5 (19:36):
Well, I guess all, is it only eight episodes total
or there's eight, six episodes.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
Six episodes, yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Six episodes of the show premiere.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Which is what they did for Manly Arena. The Tom
Brady thing.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
Well, I'm not sure how many total episodes there are,
but it says six episodes premiere.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
So is that all six? Is that the whole thing?
That's a good question.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
Yeah, whether they're dropping it all at once or they
drop the first six and then a weekly rollout after that,
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
Hmm.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Okay. Well, yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
Anyway, I will be tuned in for the Nick Saban documentary,
whatever that is.
Speaker 4 (20:06):
I'm going to watch because I want to see some
of the stories. The players are going to have stories,
but more importantly, the coaches. Because I remember Lane Kiffin
was talking several years ago, and he said that when
you coach for a guy like Nick Saban, and they
(20:26):
had a game where they actually demolished the other team.
but it seemed like he was more pissed than anything, right?
Speaker 2 (20:35):
And I understand. Where it came from.
Speaker 4 (20:38):
I understand the source material as to why he's this way.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
Oh, yes.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
So, now, Saban, if.
Speaker 4 (20:46):
You're talking about coaching trees and you start connecting the dots,
where does Saban coach, right? He spent time with Bill
Belichick in Cleveland. Bill Belichick spent time with who? Bill Parcells, right?
And even Sean Payton has gone through an iteration of
this himself, being around Parcells, and I've seen it myself.
(21:07):
When you're not performing well, your coach is going to
kind of get on you.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
Right.
Speaker 4 (21:11):
When you perform even better than that, they're going to
get on you. And the reason being because they don't
want you to become complacent. And there's a frame of
mind from the guys that they've learned it from.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
You have to make sure.
Speaker 4 (21:24):
You get on your coaches, you get on your players
to let them know, hey, this is the level of
play we.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
Expected from you.
Speaker 4 (21:30):
We don't want to kind of overpraise you to a
point you become complacent. And we do know complacency is
a real thing in sports. Now, I would say that
Nick Saban's approach, as well as Bill Parcells, sometimes can
be a little chaotic at times, because I believe that
when players play well, coaches coach well, validate them a little.
(21:54):
But it just seems like there's this thing that we
can't let them get too high.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
They just can't do it.
Speaker 3 (21:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
Now, Terrell, run the route again.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
Damn it, it's cut.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
You guys at home can't see this. I'm going to
show you a picture here real quick. This is the
sidelines at the 2013 Senior Bowl. The guy in the
red jacket there is Nick Saban. I'll zoom in on
that so you can see Nick Saban there. And I
was there on the sidelines at the practice watching Senior
Bowl practice, as one does. And Ryan Swope, the wide
receiver out of Texas A & M, ran an out route,
(22:28):
and ran directly into me, standing on the sideline there.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
He hung on to the ball. How did you allow
that to happen? I was just watching the play, watching
the play. I was like, oh, he's right. Oh, yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
Knocked me over on my back. So he hung on
to the ball, made the catch through the tackle that
I made there. And his hand reaches down to pick
me up and pull me up.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
And it was Nick Saban. And they, like, pulled me up.
He actually helped you up. Yeah, helped me up.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
He had a smiley, a genial, everything like that. And
I believe in that moment we locked eyes and I
committed my firstborn to Alabama.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
A boy that you don't have.
Speaker 4 (23:03):
I would have thought that in a situation like that,
he would have said something to you.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
No, he was going to get the hell out of
the way. Well, he wasn't coaching that.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
He was just on the sideline observing, and so he
was having himself kind of a day. He was kind
of holding court there. He was being pretty genial and
cracking jokes. He was the other side of Nick Saban,
sort of the side you see.
Speaker 4 (23:21):
A little bit.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
That you really don't see that very often.
Speaker 5 (23:23):
Yeah, he was cracking jokes or anything like that.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
He made a joke. He'd say, hey, you wrapped him
up and got him to the ground. It's a tackle, right?
Probably your first official.
Speaker 4 (23:35):
tackle yes unofficial tackle well yes but he was like
we might have room for you at corner and i
was like coach you haven't seen.
Speaker 5 (23:40):
My uh my speed or lack thereof you got no.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Room for me at corner and uh that was that
was basically the end of the exchange but that was
my that's my experience that's my nick saban story but.
Speaker 4 (23:47):
You know what that's going to be a be great
because there's so many coaches that come from that because
brit key who played at georgia tech who's now georgia
tech head coach he was on that staff at alabama
lane kiffin steve sarkisian If I'm not mistaken, Kurt Cignetti,
who coaches Indiana.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
He was on that staff.
Speaker 4 (24:08):
And if you ever listen to most of those guys talk,
with the exception of Lane.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Kiffin, Lane is kind of, he's a little different.
Speaker 4 (24:17):
But a lot of those other guys, they speak and
they talk about football a little different.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
And they speak with.
Speaker 4 (24:25):
A no-nonsense type of flair to the comments that they make. Like,
the comments that Sean Payton makes with the Denver media,
you know, the media is chuckling up, and I sit
there and I'm going like, man, he's really giving it
to you guys in a certain way, the way that
only Sean Payton can do it, which is entirely different
(24:45):
than I've ever seen Parcells do it.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
Because Parcells, he's cutthroat. Yeah. Yeah, he was.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
And then everybody's got different ways of motivating people, but
that motivation game from some of these coaches is difficult
because you want to motivate a guy to be better
than he was when he's down.
Speaker 5 (25:02):
But as you talked about, you don't want him to
get complacent either.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
So it's kind of like riding a guy either way,
but you've got to find a way to balance it.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
Parcells did not care.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 4 (25:12):
Even if your mother was standing next to you, Ben, he's.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Going to keep it 100. And he's going to tell
her about you.
Speaker 4 (25:22):
Maybe not in the way that she may like it,
but some players, some people don't like it. It took
me a minute to really understand what he was doing.
But once you understand it, it doesn't really bother you
because he's trying to get the best out of you.
And in his mind, he's not giving you any grace
(25:42):
because no matter what you do, it was never good enough.
Because a young Nick Ferguson, I was terrified of him
at first.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
And then I.
Speaker 4 (25:51):
Realized what he was attempting to do. And each coach
has their own way, like you said, trying to motivate players.
Because the idea when you play this game, you have
to be self-motivated. But sometimes you got to have a
coach who's going to light a fire on you. Like
Tower Inferno under you. And Bill Parcells definitely was that
(26:13):
type of person. And he was capable of doing it. 56690,
the text line.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
I'll see here. Will you guys be on the air
3 p.m. tomorrow?
Speaker 1 (26:19):
Yes, we will.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
Myself and Nick Ferguson. Broncos game day. Broncos game day.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
We'll give way to Broncos countdown to kickoff at 5 p.m.
with Ryan Edwards.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
And, of course, the call, Dave Logan, Rick Lewis.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
Susie Worgen, right here on KOA at 7 p.m. Let's see. Ben,
can you mention BK on the air tonight?
Speaker 3 (26:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
Bernie Kristol was actually, I'll tell you this, Bernie Kristol
witnessed that Nick Saban story.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
He witnessed you get knocked down. And then I got
up again like Chumbawamba.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
I see.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
Get knocked down once you get up again. I still
don't understand how you saw the ball coming.
Speaker 4 (26:54):
Saw the player coming towards you, and like a moth
to a flame, you couldn't move out of the way.
Speaker 5 (26:59):
To be fair, I was more focused on the blocking
at the line.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
Tyler Wilson was the quarterback, former Arkansas quarterback, was the
quarterback throwing the pass. And I was more focused on
the blocking at the line and the rep down there
than the receiver who was snapping off and out right
where I was going to be.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
You got to keep your head on a swivel, man. Yeah,
you do. And I did not. That's what happened. I
was there was video of that.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
Somebody at the time, I'm sure, had it. Because the
video of the rep, everybody was getting videoed. I don't
know who would still have it. Who was that guy
that got knocked down over there? I tell you what,
if you go.
Speaker 3 (27:34):
I.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
Bet Jim Nagy has it.
Speaker 4 (27:39):
Don't you have a buddy who does things at the
Senior Bowl?
Speaker 2 (27:43):
Yeah, Jim Nagy. Well, he doesn't do it anymore. He's
the GM at Oklahoma now. Maybe you could talk to
him and maybe they could find it. Because I'm sure someone...
I mean, they probably have this on their phone. I'm
pretty sure.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
I'm trying to remember if Jim was doing that at
that time or if it was Phil Savage.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
I can't remember off the top of my head. But
if Jim was there... I think Jim was there that year.
Speaker 5 (28:02):
And I'm pretty sure.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
It.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
May have been Phil Savage, actually. I'm trying to remember
who was running the Senior Bowl that year.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
I still can't believe.
Speaker 4 (28:14):
Well, actually, to be totally honest, because you've actually told
a story of being run over.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
So, yeah, I can believe you can run over yet again.
Speaker 5 (28:23):
I promise you, you know. Yeah, you know, that's anyway,
that's my Nick Saban story.
Speaker 3 (28:29):
It's funny.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
Phil, I thought he made some great points talking about
receivers and what they can do and.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
What they don't do.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
In terms of optimizing themselves at the line of scrimmage,
lining up, making sure you're ready to be explosive.
Speaker 5 (28:44):
It is a game of inches.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
Every little centimeter counts the way you've lined it to
maximize yourself and your human potential.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
That was a great point about that.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
You see some guys who have all world athleticism.
Speaker 3 (28:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
But then you'd be like, well, wait a minute. Why
is this guy? I can't get off the line.
Speaker 3 (28:58):
Why?
Speaker 1 (28:58):
You know, remember, I think it was a pretty prolific
receiver for a minute. I remember Roy Williams used to
play for the Cowboys.
Speaker 3 (29:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
And he was one of those guys, and he could
not beat the jam.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
Like, once teams figured out he couldn't beat the jam,
like it was over for him, he couldn't beat the jam.
Speaker 5 (29:14):
And it was one of those, like, all the explosiveness
in the.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
World, but could not figure out how to get off
the blocks if you came up and pressed Mandan.
Speaker 4 (29:20):
Well, this is where Phil was talking about, you know,
those comeback drills.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
And that's part of getting off the line.
Speaker 4 (29:27):
And that's knowing, one, where you are in the progression,
knowing and having a plan before you get out there
on the field.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
Because if you.
Speaker 4 (29:34):
Have a slant route, right, and you know that depending
on like if you're facing a veteran corner or let's
just say a rookie corner, rookie corner you'll be able
to get inside right away. But a guy like Pat Sertan,
which I asked him about, it becomes very difficult. So
you have to be able to move your shoulder away
(29:55):
from him.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
And you've seen this before, right?
Speaker 4 (29:58):
Where you've watched guys like Devontae Adams, they take that
little slow skip off the line, and they use somewhat
of a... I would classify it as a Kyrie Irving
kind of crossover-type move, because.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
Once you.
Speaker 4 (30:12):
Go from your wide receiver stance, you're coming to balance
with both feet. So now the reason you're doing that
because it gives you a two-way go. So now guys
are lowering their shoulders, and when the DB looks to punch,
he's looking for a surface for you to give to him.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
So those guys are taught to use.
Speaker 4 (30:28):
Their hands, swipe, knock down, almost like it's karate or
something like that. Make your shoulders skinny to get inside
of him and move away and then try to stack him.
But some guys, you know, they haven't. perfected that technique.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
That was the thing. And Roy was the guy who got.
Speaker 5 (30:45):
By on athleticism until he couldn't get by on athleticism.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
But there was one of the things, cause there was,
I talked to a coach that worked with him and
he was like, he couldn't, he couldn't get the concept
of the diamond release.
Speaker 3 (30:54):
Right.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
And for those of you don't know what a diamond
release is, where you take a, as a receiver, you're
going to take three like explosive steps toward the outside
shoulder to your cell and vertical, right? When they've got
inside leverage, you're selling vertical and you snap it off.
And you're looking at it. So what'd you do when
you went on a slant?
Speaker 3 (31:09):
Right.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
Like, like that kind of stuff. And they've got inside
leverage on you. And so, but he was like, he,
he just couldn't get it. He couldn't, he could not
figure it out.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
But here's also to what I've seen too.
Speaker 4 (31:19):
And my playing in my coaching days, you see big
body wide receivers, right?
Speaker 3 (31:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (31:26):
And those guys are so big and they're so used to,
like Roy, using their strength to grab guys, tug and pull,
and then try to pull themselves through.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
But some of those.
Speaker 4 (31:38):
Guys didn't really have quick feet. And you see smaller receivers,
albeit small, like you say, like the Rams, Tutu Atwell,
who just got traded back to.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
The Rams, he's a smaller guy.
Speaker 4 (31:51):
So because he's small, he's got to be quick in
short area spaces. And like big corners sometimes struggle with
small receivers, right?
Speaker 3 (31:59):
And.
Speaker 4 (32:00):
You see this a lot, but it's learning to win
at the line of scrimmage.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
For both the DB.
Speaker 4 (32:06):
And the wide receiver, that's why that healthy competition in
practice when you work in those one-on-one drills, I'm talking
about real one-on-one drills where you're getting a lot of
competitive work out of it, that's when you see guys'
skillsets start to improve.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
Yeah, and it was just, you know, I was fascinated.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
I always love having, you know, guys like that on,
guys like Phil on, because you get a chance to
start talking a little bit of, you know, you get
into the minutia.
Speaker 3 (32:31):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
You know, you get into the football stuff. The real
technical fundamental stuff. Yeah, and it's fun to be able
to give that, you know, give that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
To the listeners and, you know, that you don't really
get anywhere else other than here on VCD.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
So I appreciate you lining that up.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
If you guys want to listen to any part of
that or the first hour of the show with Steve Atwood,
go to roccascountrynight.com slash podcast or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
Apple iTunes, iTunes, Spotify, the free iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 3 (32:52):
Nailed it.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
There we go.
Speaker 3 (32:53):
Nailed it.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
Well, where you can get taking it for granted podcast,
Grant's old archives. We're trying to shame him into, while
he's got some downtime, doesn't really have downtime right now,
into redoing, into restarting that up.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
We'll see.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
Maybe make it like a new father's podcast kind of thing.
That would be great.
Speaker 4 (33:11):
Because that would mean that now Grant and I have
more in common.
Speaker 3 (33:16):
Right?
Speaker 4 (33:16):
Because when you talk about no days off, when you
become a parent, especially when you're dealing with an infant,
no days off for real.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
Yeah, that's what he needs.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
You guys need the no days off and you guys
talk fatherhood on the podcast.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
I think that would be pretty fun.
Speaker 4 (33:31):
You know what, really quickly, I really hope this for you, Ben,
that you have the ability to become a father and
we have those conversations of you changing that first diaper.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
I've changed diapers before. I did it for my nephews. No, no, no. See,
it's different.
Speaker 4 (33:49):
When it's your kid, it's different. You can change diapers
of other people's kids. But when it's your kid, it's different.
It's a fatherly bonding experience.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
I'll call it that.
Speaker 4 (34:01):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
I'm looking forward to never doing that. We've got to
hit a break. Broncos Country Tonight, Hour 3. Back after this.
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