January 14, 2026 • 33 mins
CEOs You Should Know DFW returns with a premiere episode focused on leadership at a national scale. Chris Long, Region President of iHeartMedia Dallas/Fort Worth, sits down with Matt Powell, CEO of Moroch, to discuss leading one of the industry’s most respected agencies with a nationwide footprint and deep Texas roots. Matt shares his path from broadcast journalism student to CEO, how Moroch maintains creative excellence and brand consistency across markets, and why solving complex business challenges still fuels his passion for advertising. Plus, he tells a memorable first-concert story from Johnny Cash’s final tour. A candid conversation on leadership, creativity, and building brands that resonate coast to coast.
CEOs You Should Know DFW features candid conversations with leaders shaping business in North Texas and beyond, hosted by Chris Long, Region President of iHeartMedia Dallas/Fort Worth. Follow, Rate, and Subscribe on the podcast platform you are listening on!
CEOs You Should Know DFW features candid conversations with leaders shaping business in North Texas and beyond, hosted by Chris Long, Region President of iHeartMedia Dallas/Fort Worth. Follow, Rate, and Subscribe on the podcast platform you are listening on!
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
So to open CEOs, you should know, I want to
introduce our guests today, Matt Powell, CEO of Murrock.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Advertising here in Dallas. Matt, welcome, thank you, thank you
for having me. We're excited to have you. Okay, let's
get started.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
So I do have some questions that were not on
the sound list that you sent me, but I thought
we'd have a little fun and I think it's important,
given who iHeartMedia is, that we start with this question. Okay, So,
as America's number one audio entertainment company with over eight
hundred and sixty radio stations in one hundred and sixty markets,
(00:37):
reaching audiences in every music format, spoken word content, and
podcast ONRE, I need to ask.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
You a two part question. Okay, what was your first concert? Okay?
What podcast are you listening to right now?
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Those are easy. So first concert, I kind of went
out swinging. I got to see Johnny cash In. It
was nineteen ninety seven and it ended up being his
last tour Johnny Callish. Yeah, he came to the Majestic
Theater in Dallas and he stopped toorrying about three months later,
and he was there with his wife and his son,
(01:11):
And I mean it was kind of an unbelievable experience,
and like I said, last time in Dallas, So I
don't feel like I could ever top that one.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
You've never gone to a concert again? No, I have,
but I should have probably stopped at that point. That
is going up really hot. Yes.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
And then second question was podcasts. So I'm a SmartLess guy.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Love that one.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
I'm starting to figure out I need to start branching out.
I'm kind of a music nerd too, so I do
a lot of podcasts that are specific to bands or
eras of music and.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Things like that. What's your favorite era?
Speaker 3 (01:45):
Well, you know, as a good gen X, I definitely
am one of those that claims the nineties, but sixties
is kind of right there with it too, Beatles, beach Boys, all.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
That interesting as a gen actual appreciate. Then this my
first concert was meant at work. Oh I never had
a vegemite sandwich in my life, but men at work.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
That's a cool concert. That's a good one. Cool, more interesting. Yeah,
maybe I don't know. Okay, So now we get to
what you expected.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
Sure, So we'll start off maybe simple. Okay, what's your story, like,
where did you grow up? How did as a kid
did you think about ending up in this business?
Speaker 2 (02:23):
What led you here? Right, and all of that.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
I'm a Dallas native, so grew up here, went to
high school in Dallas, college at UTA, and thought I
was going to be doing broadcast journalism. So this room
feels very comfortable to me. Really my college experience, and
you work at the college radio station I did.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
And all of the things. Yea.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
And my last semester I had an advertising sales class,
and I had never thought about the business side of advertising.
You always had seen commercials and things like that, and
then so I was kind of interested in that. And
coming out of college, you just want to get a job,
and I ended up answering. I tell people all the time,
I think I was the last one that answered an
(03:02):
ad out of a newspaper for a job, circled it
with my red pin and HIGHLIGHTERR and called them. And
it was a little small ad agency in Dallas that's
no longer around. It was a thirty person agency that
I worked at. We had Neiman Marcus and CC's Pizza
were our clients. So I kind of stumbled into it,
and then a few years in realized this is this
is where.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
I'm going to be forever, So it's too much fun.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
So going into broadcast, like, where did you think, Like
if you had said I'm going to think down the
road thirty years, where did you think you were going
to be?
Speaker 3 (03:30):
I thought i'd be on air, you know, like news reporter,
news anchor less nessman. Yes, yes, yeah, Well it's funny
because I have a classmate.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
They also grew up in Dallas.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
She went to the same high school and she's on
air with ABC, And I like, there's times where I think, Okay,
is that if the chooser oad adventure part of your life?
Is that where I would have ended up if I
had followed that part of my career. But I think
when I got to the end, they said, you know,
you have to go to small markets and work your
way back to Dallas.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Correct. I didn't really have an interest in that. I
can't do that. So not happening. Not happening.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
So tell me about that first year at the agency
when you started.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
Oh Man, the agency I was at it was, you know,
smaller agencies can have a bit of a personality to them.
We had this agency had seven cats. The owner was
an SBCA lover. So part of my job was actually
because I was the last one in was taking care
of the cats.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Stop it.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
No, I'm not joking. And in addition to that, it
was a very devil War's product kind of set up.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
The owner of the company.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
She would come in in a flurry with things to
facts and mail, but I had to beat her to
the office and get her room, her office set up,
so I would have to turn music to a certain volume,
light incense, no way, glass down, her glass desk or
wind exit down.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
And every day, oh every day. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
So and the only time I could get one on
ones with her was to go follow her under smoke
break and so I would come home like wreaking of smoke,
and my wife's like.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
What have you been doing? I'm like, just trying to
get ahead of my career. That's all. That's all I'm
tread to do.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
So it was pretty insane, and there's hundreds of stories.
I mean, I'm surprised. I tell people all the time,
like the twenty something's coming out of college, they would
they would leave on the first day. I somehow made
it a year and a half there and a half
and then moved on to something else because they were
about to go bank bankrupt?
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Do you jumping ahead? Just for sure? Do you ever
use that story with new people? Oh?
Speaker 3 (05:30):
Yeah, the agency, Oh yeah, I try to give them
a little perspective of you know, because sometimes young people
can come out with a little entitlement, you know, not
often really, but sometimes weird sometimes. I haven't never heard that,
but you know, I guess it's all perspective. And you know,
I think our generation, gen X was not ready. We
were a smaller generation, so we couldn't put up the
(05:51):
fight with kind of the generation before us, and the
millennials and Gen X gen Z to their credit, have
come in and said, no, we kind of want to
change things up.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
I don't think Gen X really had that opportunity to
do that. We were bullied by the boomers. Oh for sure, Yeah,
oh for sure.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
I mean I know that, you know, when you have
conversations with you know, the new to the workforce folks
and you say something like back in the day, I
was in before my boss, I didn't leave until my
boss laughed yea, And they laughed and like, what are
you talking about?
Speaker 2 (06:23):
Though? I do you know?
Speaker 1 (06:24):
I remember, you know, working in a radio station in
Kansas City and this woman that everybody.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Looked up to.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
She would put a hot cup of coffee on her
desk at three point fifteen and a fake and an
old purse she never used and put it in the chair.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
And when our boss would come looking, it would look
like she.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
Would be right back, and she's like, look, you tell him,
I'm going to be right back, but I'm going home
for the day, yes, ma'am.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
So understanding the chaos of changing litterboxes and taking care
of calvs and all of that, what made you fall
in love with it?
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Advertising and all?
Speaker 3 (06:56):
Yeah, I think for me, there's a lot of it
that I love, especially now. The ability to touch so
many different brands even in a single course of a
day is so much fun. And there's so many just
different problems to solve and people to meet. It's it's
definitely an industry where communication is important, networking is important,
(07:18):
but solving problems is kind of the most fun part
of it too. So, you know, I've always it's an
industry that requires a lot of energy and output, and
I've told myself, like, the minute this stops being fun,
it's not worth it. But every day is just it's fun,
Like it's just new problems, new challenges, whatever. So there
(07:38):
was a moment of crisis that I had where maybe
was three years into my career and I'm like, did
I just stumble into this and figure out.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
How to be good at it? Or is this what
I really should do?
Speaker 3 (07:47):
So I went and did a full day analysis at
a university and literally it came back and said you're
supposed to be an advertising executive.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
And I was like, oh, okay, I guess I'm in
the right space. But don't you think that moment's normal?
I mean, so I'm in bar to say that.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
You know, I'm so old that you know, at that time,
the big job you wanted in media sales was to
work at the newspaper.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
And I remember going down that road and they looked
at me as someone in radio is like, yeah, right,
you'll never make it in this game, son, right, Okay,
so right, you don't exist anymore. But I think that's
kind of normal, and I think that's kind of the
conversation with some of the young kids.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Now.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Yeah, I think it's interesting you talk about, you know,
we talk about on the.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
Sales side, solutions, right, That's that's what it is. Job.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Yeah, it's problem solving right, and there's never the same
romance road up correct.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
No day is the same either, so that that also
is great.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
I there was a moment in the early part of
COVID and I told my wife, I said, should I
have just gone into insurance or banking or something a
little more stable and predictable?
Speaker 2 (08:45):
And she said, you would have gone crazy. You know,
you're wired for the kind of chaos that this is.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
So but you know it's funny, and I would imagine
you have the same in our business. I know, I've
had conversations with people who are like lawyers and doctors
that we would go, well, they're a lawyer or a doctor,
but they look at what we do sure as like
we are in entertainment. Yeah, I mean we talk about
it here all the time. I mean, you know, we
can casually say that, you know, the lead singer for
(09:11):
x y Z band came by, and you tell that
to somebody else, and you know, their jaw jobs open
and you're like, yeah, wasn't that big of a deal.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
Yeah, there's parts of it that you kind of take
for granted. You know the amount of different games I've
gotten to go to just sure, you know, whether clients
or whatever. Like those kinds of things are the fun.
But even just the rooms we've been in. I mean,
Coke has been a partner of ours for a long
time and I've been in their offices, which is like
a security vault to get in stuff like that. Just
(09:39):
it's interesting experiences, even just the places you get to
go to. I'm kind of cognizant that most of America
does not really leave their zip code that often, and
it's no big deal for me to have a day
trip to San Francisco one week and be at DC
and it's just that kind of stuff is not normal
for most industries.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
So I actually had this conversation last week you touched
on we get to do stuff that week?
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Right, probably take.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
For granted, and I think about all the things on
my end real quick.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
What's kind of that one thing You're like, I can't
believe I got to do this.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
Oh man, that's a good that's a good question. I
had a market for a while with one of our
brands in Salt Lake City and got a chance to
basically hang.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
For a week and do sun Dance.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
And I'm a movie fanatic as well, and so getting
to kind of experience that and literally bump into celebrities
during that time period and all that like that was
that was super fun.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
So but again, what did you say?
Speaker 3 (10:38):
So I went to a screening that had one of
the Hobbits from Lord of the Rings in it. I
can't remember which one.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Totally good with Lord of the Rings.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
All of the other Hobbits were there to support them.
And then we were sitting next to Melissa McCarthy, who
at the time was really only known for I know,
but she was at the time, she was really only
known for Gilmore Girls and my wife that was like
her favorite show. And she's like, uh, because I hadn't
even noticed typical and she's like, uh, did you see
who I'm sitting by? And you know, it's very casual there,
(11:07):
like that kind of stuff happens all the time. So
the other one, do you guys remember the situation with
Gwyneth Paltrow and the ski incident where she had a lawsuit.
Oh yeah, okay, I was on the mountain that day, reinvolved. No,
I was not involved, and she was not. She did
not hit me, but I went and looked when that
lawsuit came up. I had because I had seen her
(11:27):
that day on the mountain.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
I was like, that's weird.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
Is it possible that it was the same day? And
it was and I was there for Sundance anyway, so
I guess I could have possibly had.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
A lawsuit on my hands too. So I don't know,
missed opportunity.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Maybe maybe I'll just throw it out because I get
chills every time I saw the story tell the story.
I got to go see Zach Brown band, who I love,
a small venue and the person I.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Was with was involved and said, hey, don't leave.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
So the show was ending, the house lights came up,
small venue and this gentlemen walks on stage and people
are wondering who as they had a hood on.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Guy takes his hood off.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
It's Dave Girl of the Food Fighters, and they proceeded
to cover Enter sand Man. One of the coolest things
I've ever seen. And to the point, five hundred people
got to see that, right right, Yeah, better chance to
win the lottery. Really, but you know, we are we
are fortunate. I mean, I would say a good segue.
Maybe you've been at moroc for twenty years. So in
this business, that kind of longevity and growth within one
(12:28):
place is really interesting. And I you know when I
called you about joining me today, I know we talked
about when we work together, you know, ten years ago,
and you know then you see where we are now,
and so it's really interesting.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
What thinking about the twenty years like? Tell me about
that path? Yeah, it's funny.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
So when I came to Morocc, I have had two stops,
one of which headcats in it, as we've talked about,
and my kind of I knew enough about trying to
find the right place. And so this being my third job,
I said, there's really two things, and I literally said
it from day one. I will stay at Moroc as
(13:08):
long as I have stability, just because I had been
through some really roller coaster experiences.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Cat Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
Yeah, Well like both of the places I was at
ended up closing six months.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
After I got it, yeap. And then Common Nope, not
in Common. In fact, I used to hold that over
our boss.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
I you know, like when I leave, the place tends
to fall apart, so you know, no. But and then
second was just I didn't want to ever have I
guess I wanted unlimited growth in terms of I never
wanted to stop like pushing myself. And so I feel
like I after twenty plus years can check both of
those boxes pretty well and really just fortunate. And for
(13:48):
me now it's kind of like flipping it around and saying,
how can I give that experience.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
To other people too?
Speaker 3 (13:53):
Because often when people are moving to something, it's for advancement.
It could be money, could be doing something new, could
be switching up things entirely, and like, I want to
encourage people to have that open conversation so that we
can navigate with them, because you know, they are in
charge of their destiny, but we can certainly we're big
enough agency that we.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
Can help help give you know, options to people too.
So for sure anyway, for sure.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
So you and I are talking very familiar about Moroc
because we've worked together and we have a history. But
for people listening who aren't aware of Moroc and what
you all do, why don't you talk a little bit
about that, especially now with your vision as CEO.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
What that means. Yeah, we're it's unique.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
I kind of look at us as a forty almost
forty five year old startup. So we were founded by
two gentlemen who are still part of our board, and really,
you know, kind of a cool story in terms of
how they started but basically bought the agency for a
dollar and ended up buying the agency that they bought
(14:56):
it from down the road. So fantastic, just like Roots
in beginning, and we kind of hit COVID with some
questions to answer about our future. Yeah, and COVID was
really actually beneficial for us in many ways because it
kind of gave us a minute to say, how do
we get ahead of you know, our competitors, and how
do we kind of map out the future. And so
(15:18):
we're still on that roadmap and path. We've always been
an agency focused around what we would call like multilocation
at scale, like that's our differentiator. And that can look
like big giant brands where we're working with thousands of locations,
and it can be you know, smaller brands that are
are just getting started. But anyway, it's it's it's been
(15:38):
a lot of fun kind of mapping out and treating
ourselves a bit like a startup.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Yeah, I think that's I think that's important.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
You know, you mentioned your differentiator and in the in
the marketplace, you're you know, moroc Is known as the
franchise Whisper Sure and you know, working with a brand
like McDonald's for forty plus years. You know, what do
you think the secret to that kind of partnership is
(16:05):
when I think sometimes the word partnership is thrown around
a little too loosely, but clearly that's what you have
with McDonald's.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Yeah, do you think you've done that?
Speaker 3 (16:13):
Yeah, and we have you know, minus thirty plus years. Yes,
Planet Fitness over ten years, yep. I think a couple things.
So one kind of fun story, we're actually working with
the grandson of our first client, which stop kind of
is unique obviously in the ad industry world, but I
think it's also kind of reflective of the way that
(16:33):
we've always approached it, which you know, our founders were
always about playing the long game, not just short term.
I want to have a transactional relationship with with somebody.
They wanted to build a partnership, and sometimes that means,
you know, there's lean years and then there's healthy years,
and you have to figure that out as you go.
I think though that you know, so probably sixty percent
(16:55):
of our client base are the franchisee, the dealer, the
fitness club own or whatever. And what I love about
that environment. You know, sometimes they don't get enough credit
for their smarts, particularly in the marketing space, but they
are they are businessmen that are running businesses across and
have expertise across a lot of areas, and so it's
(17:15):
just a different kind of relationship because they don't live
in marketing, you know, three hundred and sixty five days
out of a year. So it's just a it's a
different relationship you have with them. But what I do
love is they're obviously invested in the business in a
way that other.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
Clients wouldn't be.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
And so that to me is you're really helping somebody
build you know, often generational business for their family for
you know, now grandsons.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
That's a I mean I've never heard of that.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
Yeah, I mean when you think about you know, you
read in the trades all the time, the life span
of a CMO or all of those things.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Ye like to say that.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
I'm really blown away by that because I knew the
McDonald's piece. I'd kind of forgotten about Planet Fitness and
even Midas when said that, is there any moment you
can take of with one of those three where you're like,
oh boy, we're hanging on by a thread, and.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
Like, how did you I mean, sure, and it's interesting
because a lot of those kind of clients are more
of a portfolio than they are a single client, because
you know, some of them, it's literally hundreds of client
touch points that we have, and you know, with that,
there's kind of a constant challenge. We went through a
situation with one of the clients where new CMO comes in,
(18:30):
he wants to consolidate everything, kind of the typical story
he brings in a holding company. And what we decided
to do was we went and pitched with two other
independent agencies and basically kind of created our own version
of that, and interestingly, we scored the best, but the
CMO wanted the kind of splash in the headline, so
(18:51):
he went with the holding company. But within six months,
that whole strategy fell apart and they came back and
hired the three agent sees individually. And so that was
a moment of like we went from you know, kind
of a euphoria of pitching and feeling like we had
won it, losing it and then getting it back in
(19:12):
six months and so you know, and you know, we
now have four or five years since that time period
and great track record since then.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
So but that was that was a challenging one.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
So this will be this question will be a little
bit broader, but it'll be specific to moroc as you
as you talked about the longevity with some of these accounts,
there has to be I would think something cultural within
moroc that allowed that that makes it mandatory for newcomers
to understand there's a way we do business to maintain
(19:45):
this kind of longevity.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
What do you think the cultural thing is that.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
You will It's funny because I culture used to be
something I definitely took for granted. I think that was
kind of a post COVID thing, was like we got
to codify these things. And because we we're bringing and
building lots of new stuff, and to your point, like
how do you bring people along? So we have value
structure that's really important to us, and we celebrate those
(20:09):
values once a year, and those values kind of dig
into so as an example, tenacity is one of our
values that kind of speaks to you know, you aren't
just gonna take a no for an answer, or you
know we failed at this, like we're going to figure
it out. And it's those kinds of things that we've
tried to weave in I also realized you have to
(20:31):
kind of hire people that have different backgrounds for the
environment we're into, and we learned some of that just
you know, some agencies are structured and built very differently
and people can adapt obviously, but it's also kind of
who you bring in.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
Is it important to I got to imagine as CEO,
you've got twenty years experience and you're talking about clients
with lots of longevity and trust. There's got to be
a balance though in there of not just always having
the same roc people doing things. And it's a balance
because you have to have that culture that is that
(21:06):
is long term and ingrained. But it's like how do
you kind of mention it, how do you bring in
the new ideas so you remain fresh and merge the
two together.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
Yeah, and that is a tricky balance because longevity with
our people is important too, And we have a wall
that has caricatures when you hit five years and we
celebrate that.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
That's important.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
But the flip side is, you know, we also have
we had a local artist in our new office space
do a chameleon that has moroc kind of woven into it.
And the chameleon is meant to symbolize that exactly what
you were talking about, Like we have to constantly be
changing and evolving with that, and you know, and off
with a lot of our.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Brands, and especially in the franchise world, like you're as.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
Good as your last meeting, yep, and you have to
What is interesting is some of the brands were on
we're one of another agency, and we actually talk all
about all the time that that actually keeps you on
your toes because of course they could take business at
any given time, and so you have to be you
have to be in frankly, we've got some brands that
(22:09):
scorecard us on an even quarterly basis, and so certainly
you have to be on your toes to stay at
the top in those environments.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
Well, but I would imagine too, in a weird way,
by having to partner with other agencies who do things differently,
it keeps you from being so siloed and thinking that
only our way is the only way.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
And you could pick the thing up to two.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
That maintains a certain amount of you know, new fresh ideas.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
That kind of a thing.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
Yeah, And the other part that kind of speaks exactly
to what you just said. We're part of WPI Network,
which is a global network of eighty agencies, and we
get together twice a year with them. They have like
subgroups that meet on specific topics, and we put ourselves
in there specifically for this reason too. You know, if
there's an agency doing something cool within their network, they
(22:57):
will open up and say, this is how we did
it and what we thought about it. That's great, Like
it's a great smart learning environment.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Uh. You know something we constantly challenge ourselves with. I
mean I have to think, you know, given.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
You've been at MOROC twenty years, you've been in the
CEO role for what five seven seven?
Speaker 2 (23:14):
Okay, I only because I did the math the other day. Yeah,
I mean when I asked, yes, yes, that's probably.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
But but you know, with that is the responsibility of
juggling the two. Like, you know, I've got to put
us out there, but I've got to maintain with these
long term partners have expected of us. And I gotta
imagine that takes a lot of your Yeah, especially because
you know, as an independent agency, one of the distinct
advantages is that you do have leaned in leadership and
(23:41):
you know, we're a mid size agency. But that doesn't
mean that you can't get to know leadership both from
employee perspective or client. And but back to your kind
of point in my mind, like whether it's an existing
client or if it's new business, like, it's the same.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
We have to constantly be fresh.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
Our mantra actually within our creative team that they use
is relentlessly fresh. And I love that kind of spirit
of you know, we're not taking this meeting off like
this one pushes the ball forward like every meeting.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
You have to treat it that way. You mentioned a
few minutes ago the holding companies.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
You know, with all the change in the advertising and
media industry, how do you differentiate from the big holding
companies because a lot of times people will sit there
and say, Wow, we're the biggest, and so that means
we're the best.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
Yeah, it's interesting, I actually think so.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
I was doing this kind of AI exercise trying to
scrape around what are the industry trends that are out
there and kind of what are the things to solve
for going into next year, And it was interesting because
a lot of them were definitely in the camp of
an indie agency being able to solve better than a
holding company. So like one of them was localization at scale,
(24:51):
like brands are starting to think about my brand isn't
just a kind of cookie cutter thing across the US
or globally or whatever. It needs to show up differently
in different areas.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Yep, you know differentation in general.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
I think because you talk to most RFPs that I
see from a new new client opportunity, they feel like
they're in a sea of saneness, and so how.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
Do you differentiate yourself? And so I don't know to me.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
And also I think media has gotten more democratic in
the sense that the buying power piece is kind of
it still exists, but it's not as.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Important as it used to be.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
Why do you say that I agree with you, by
the way, I think, particularly in digital platforms, because you're
now trading for customers. You're not going and negotiating these
big you know, lump deals and things like that, and
were hands on keys and can get into platforms and.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Do what we need to do. So I don't know.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
I think a lot of their story and you know, frankly,
like when we work with other agencies, we choose to
partner with them.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
In the holding company world, they are forced to.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
And so to me, there's a lot of advantage to
and I also think probably last point would be there's
a constant push around nimbleness and flexibility.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
Yeah, you know in these that to me is a
distinct advantage as well. So I'm gonna take I'm gonna
take a do tourch just for a second.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
Do you think partnerships with vendors like an iHeart in
this case allow you to be nimble like if you
do them in.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
The right places. Yeah, yeah, and really cultivate them. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:25):
I mean it's funny because as data driven as our
industry is, it's still very relationship driven. It'll always be,
It'll always be, and maybe even more now than ever
in the sense that you know, there's also like this
this thing called not enough time that seems to plague
our industry quite a bit. Even I think the some
(26:46):
of the upfront investment in partners like you so that
when things do pop and surface like you can move fast.
We've always talked about you guys are a great example
of this. How y'all are eyes and ears in the
ground for us, And like we leverage that all of
the time because you know you're going to see something
in a local market much more quickly than correct anybody
(27:09):
else and feel it and come to us with that idea.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
So those are huge for us.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
Yeah, it's funny because I think this, you know, we're
talking specifically about the advertising and media landscape, but those
strategic partnerships, you know, go both ways in terms of
listening and being okay with Hey, you may need to
know this whatever this is right?
Speaker 2 (27:31):
You know. I think that you know, you mentioned programmatic,
you know.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Which is a big thing that's you know, it's on
everyone's minds and talked about. And when you think about
how much money has gone from direct iote to programmatic
is staggering.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
When you really look at it. What other channel?
Speaker 1 (27:46):
Like what challenges you see in the industry from a
programmatic perspective or digital perspective or broadcast perspective, Like, what
do you see?
Speaker 3 (27:52):
I think the biggest one that we've been wrestling with,
which has existed for a while, but it's that balance
of brand versus performance. Yeah, and definitely this year we
started to see some brands realize yeah, yeah, I actually
do have to cultivate and take care of the brand
aspect of things. I can't just go for kind of
the low lowest hanging customer lead aspect. That's extremely important
(28:15):
and it's also the most you know, result driven and visible.
But you have to have the balance of also getting
your brand out the way that you want it to.
And so I'm hoping that more brands will start to
recognize that because there has been this push towards lower funnel,
lower funnel, lower funnel, and you know, like I said,
we've had some brands that started to swing the other direction.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
It's a really good performance.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
And I think that goes back to how do you
differentiate in a market that's very.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
Competitive right now?
Speaker 3 (28:43):
A lot of our industries it's about market share because
the industry is not growing just with where the consumer
is at.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
Yeah, so how do you stand out and do that? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (28:53):
Well, and I think it's you know, where it becomes
so challenging on your end and you know on ours
as well, where you know, any of the media companies
don't just sell one thing anymore, not like when I
started and when you started in the business, you know,
is figuring out what's the mix, right, you know, because
you know this channel does this, and how does it
fit together? And ultimately you know you said it, you know,
(29:14):
I've kind of come a believer. You know, you live
by price, You're going to die by price, you know,
because there's so much more to it.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
We also have a thing that we do called can
versus should and it's it's it's kind of fun in
the sense that there's a lot of things.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
We can do.
Speaker 3 (29:31):
Yeah, and any brand can sit there and be like, oh,
I could do that, I could What should you do? Like,
what is the prioritization for your business? And that's actually
a very important question to ask early on. Yeah, and
then it kind of reframes and reprioritizes.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
It's funny. I've said this to teams before, just because
you can doesn't mean you should.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
Yeah, And so I I this has been a great conversation,
and I want to wrap up with one more thing
on a positive And then there's one last piece of
this that you were not prepared for. Okay, we've talked
about challenges and all of that, and and what you've
done at MOROCC which is super interesting.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
We go on, but no one wants to listen to
you and I talked for four hours. But where do
you see the biggest opportunities in the industry?
Speaker 1 (30:11):
Now?
Speaker 3 (30:11):
Yeah, I mean some of it goes back to what
I was talking about. I think there is a sea
off sameness that's happening. I think there's a bit of
brands losing their differentation in the marketplace. I think that
you know, Ai, we haven't said those that word. Well,
we've talked and that's hard to dance around in our industry,
(30:31):
and we're embracing it and integrating it in I mean,
I think, I think all of those things are kind
of to me, it's never one thing, it's like several
happening all at once.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
Yeah, but those are probably areas I focus in on. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
I don't know if you saw the press release from
our company over the last couple of weeks about Guaranteed
Human Yeah, And it's important and I think it's important
for our listeners to know that, like, that's a person
talking to you, because if you don't want the person,
you can certainly go streaming audio or whatever. But when
you tune in on the broadcast sense you want that
relationship in that connection.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (31:05):
It's amazing how quick in culture that whole topic kind
of flipped into a negative space, which is interesting. I
kind of like the balance on some level, but it
also makes me a little worried that people are going
to just be so anti it and not see the
good benefits from it to one hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
Well, like when I watch stuff on reels or whatever,
you're like, Okay, that's not real, and then I get annoyed, right,
And I think that's why it's important. I was really
happy that we came out with that guaranteed human statement
because that's the promise.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
Of that product.
Speaker 3 (31:33):
Place to take stands one absolutely percent.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
So okay, this has been great. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
One of the things when I called you, we talked
about both being gen xers. Yes, so we thought it'd
be really fun to wrap up the conversation.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
We've dubbed this section question roulette.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
Okay, there are three questions in there's a question in
each one of these oncoes that to what we talked
about around gen X.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
I'm gonna let you pick to pick. You want to
do two questions? The number two you could Oh, you
want number two?
Speaker 1 (32:08):
Okay, So what you need to do is open read
the question and then share your answer with us.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
Let's see what we got. I fell a connection with
this one right away. I don't know why. Topic in
the beginning, what was your first job. This is a
funny one.
Speaker 3 (32:26):
So I lived on the east side of Dallas and
there was a little restaurant called Swamp Jaw and it
was a Cajun restaurant, of course it was. And they
literally had one cassette tape of Fats Domino that the
whole summer they would just flip it over play the
six songs, flip it back, over play the six songs.
(32:47):
So to this day it's kind of triggering when I
hear any of his music. But the funny, funny side
story on them, they decided to make them. They moved
from like a traditional menu driven restaurant to a buffet
in Mesquite oldies. To anybody in Mesquite, that's the wrong move.
And so they went out of business within like three months.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
Anyway, that was.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
My Well with your work in the QSR space, do
you ever share like stay away from past dominant?
Speaker 2 (33:14):
Yeah? Possibly, Yeah, that's great. Yes, Well, Matt, thank you
for joining us.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
It was great talking to you and sharing all this
with us, and we'll be talking I'm sure very soon.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
Awesome, Thank you for having me. Awesome, thank you
So to open CEOs, you should know, I want to
introduce our guests today, Matt Powell, CEO of Murrock.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Advertising here in Dallas. Matt, welcome, thank you, thank you
for having me. We're excited to have you. Okay, let's
get started.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
So I do have some questions that were not on
the sound list that you sent me, but I thought
we'd have a little fun and I think it's important,
given who iHeartMedia is, that we start with this question. Okay, So,
as America's number one audio entertainment company with over eight
hundred and sixty radio stations in one hundred and sixty markets,
(00:37):
reaching audiences in every music format, spoken word content, and
podcast ONRE, I need to ask.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
You a two part question. Okay, what was your first concert? Okay?
What podcast are you listening to right now?
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Those are easy. So first concert, I kind of went
out swinging. I got to see Johnny cash In. It
was nineteen ninety seven and it ended up being his
last tour Johnny Callish. Yeah, he came to the Majestic
Theater in Dallas and he stopped toorrying about three months later,
and he was there with his wife and his son,
(01:11):
And I mean it was kind of an unbelievable experience,
and like I said, last time in Dallas, So I
don't feel like I could ever top that one.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
You've never gone to a concert again? No, I have,
but I should have probably stopped at that point. That
is going up really hot. Yes.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
And then second question was podcasts. So I'm a SmartLess guy.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Love that one.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
I'm starting to figure out I need to start branching out.
I'm kind of a music nerd too, so I do
a lot of podcasts that are specific to bands or
eras of music and.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Things like that. What's your favorite era?
Speaker 3 (01:45):
Well, you know, as a good gen X, I definitely
am one of those that claims the nineties, but sixties
is kind of right there with it too, Beatles, beach Boys, all.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
That interesting as a gen actual appreciate. Then this my
first concert was meant at work. Oh I never had
a vegemite sandwich in my life, but men at work.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
That's a cool concert. That's a good one. Cool, more interesting. Yeah,
maybe I don't know. Okay, So now we get to
what you expected.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
Sure, So we'll start off maybe simple. Okay, what's your story, like,
where did you grow up? How did as a kid
did you think about ending up in this business?
Speaker 2 (02:23):
What led you here? Right, and all of that.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
I'm a Dallas native, so grew up here, went to
high school in Dallas, college at UTA, and thought I
was going to be doing broadcast journalism. So this room
feels very comfortable to me. Really my college experience, and
you work at the college radio station I did.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
And all of the things. Yea.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
And my last semester I had an advertising sales class,
and I had never thought about the business side of advertising.
You always had seen commercials and things like that, and
then so I was kind of interested in that. And
coming out of college, you just want to get a job,
and I ended up answering. I tell people all the time,
I think I was the last one that answered an
(03:02):
ad out of a newspaper for a job, circled it
with my red pin and HIGHLIGHTERR and called them. And
it was a little small ad agency in Dallas that's
no longer around. It was a thirty person agency that
I worked at. We had Neiman Marcus and CC's Pizza
were our clients. So I kind of stumbled into it,
and then a few years in realized this is this
is where.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
I'm going to be forever, So it's too much fun.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
So going into broadcast, like, where did you think, Like
if you had said I'm going to think down the
road thirty years, where did you think you were going
to be?
Speaker 3 (03:30):
I thought i'd be on air, you know, like news reporter,
news anchor less nessman. Yes, yes, yeah, Well it's funny
because I have a classmate.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
They also grew up in Dallas.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
She went to the same high school and she's on
air with ABC, And I like, there's times where I think, Okay,
is that if the chooser oad adventure part of your life?
Is that where I would have ended up if I
had followed that part of my career. But I think
when I got to the end, they said, you know,
you have to go to small markets and work your
way back to Dallas.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Correct. I didn't really have an interest in that. I
can't do that. So not happening. Not happening.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
So tell me about that first year at the agency
when you started.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
Oh Man, the agency I was at it was, you know,
smaller agencies can have a bit of a personality to them.
We had this agency had seven cats. The owner was
an SBCA lover. So part of my job was actually
because I was the last one in was taking care
of the cats.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Stop it.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
No, I'm not joking. And in addition to that, it
was a very devil War's product kind of set up.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
The owner of the company.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
She would come in in a flurry with things to
facts and mail, but I had to beat her to
the office and get her room, her office set up,
so I would have to turn music to a certain volume,
light incense, no way, glass down, her glass desk or
wind exit down.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
And every day, oh every day. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
So and the only time I could get one on
ones with her was to go follow her under smoke
break and so I would come home like wreaking of smoke,
and my wife's like.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
What have you been doing? I'm like, just trying to
get ahead of my career. That's all. That's all I'm
tread to do.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
So it was pretty insane, and there's hundreds of stories.
I mean, I'm surprised. I tell people all the time,
like the twenty something's coming out of college, they would
they would leave on the first day. I somehow made
it a year and a half there and a half
and then moved on to something else because they were
about to go bank bankrupt?
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Do you jumping ahead? Just for sure? Do you ever
use that story with new people? Oh?
Speaker 3 (05:30):
Yeah, the agency, Oh yeah, I try to give them
a little perspective of you know, because sometimes young people
can come out with a little entitlement, you know, not
often really, but sometimes weird sometimes. I haven't never heard that,
but you know, I guess it's all perspective. And you know,
I think our generation, gen X was not ready. We
were a smaller generation, so we couldn't put up the
(05:51):
fight with kind of the generation before us, and the
millennials and Gen X gen Z to their credit, have
come in and said, no, we kind of want to
change things up.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
I don't think Gen X really had that opportunity to
do that. We were bullied by the boomers. Oh for sure, Yeah,
oh for sure.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
I mean I know that, you know, when you have
conversations with you know, the new to the workforce folks
and you say something like back in the day, I
was in before my boss, I didn't leave until my
boss laughed yea, And they laughed and like, what are
you talking about?
Speaker 2 (06:23):
Though? I do you know?
Speaker 1 (06:24):
I remember, you know, working in a radio station in
Kansas City and this woman that everybody.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Looked up to.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
She would put a hot cup of coffee on her
desk at three point fifteen and a fake and an
old purse she never used and put it in the chair.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
And when our boss would come looking, it would look
like she.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
Would be right back, and she's like, look, you tell him,
I'm going to be right back, but I'm going home
for the day, yes, ma'am.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
So understanding the chaos of changing litterboxes and taking care
of calvs and all of that, what made you fall
in love with it?
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Advertising and all?
Speaker 3 (06:56):
Yeah, I think for me, there's a lot of it
that I love, especially now. The ability to touch so
many different brands even in a single course of a
day is so much fun. And there's so many just
different problems to solve and people to meet. It's it's
definitely an industry where communication is important, networking is important,
(07:18):
but solving problems is kind of the most fun part
of it too. So, you know, I've always it's an
industry that requires a lot of energy and output, and
I've told myself, like, the minute this stops being fun,
it's not worth it. But every day is just it's fun,
Like it's just new problems, new challenges, whatever. So there
(07:38):
was a moment of crisis that I had where maybe
was three years into my career and I'm like, did
I just stumble into this and figure out.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
How to be good at it? Or is this what
I really should do?
Speaker 3 (07:47):
So I went and did a full day analysis at
a university and literally it came back and said you're
supposed to be an advertising executive.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
And I was like, oh, okay, I guess I'm in
the right space. But don't you think that moment's normal?
I mean, so I'm in bar to say that.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
You know, I'm so old that you know, at that time,
the big job you wanted in media sales was to
work at the newspaper.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
And I remember going down that road and they looked
at me as someone in radio is like, yeah, right,
you'll never make it in this game, son, right, Okay,
so right, you don't exist anymore. But I think that's
kind of normal, and I think that's kind of the
conversation with some of the young kids.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Now.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Yeah, I think it's interesting you talk about, you know,
we talk about on the.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
Sales side, solutions, right, That's that's what it is. Job.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Yeah, it's problem solving right, and there's never the same
romance road up correct.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
No day is the same either, so that that also
is great.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
I there was a moment in the early part of
COVID and I told my wife, I said, should I
have just gone into insurance or banking or something a
little more stable and predictable?
Speaker 2 (08:45):
And she said, you would have gone crazy. You know,
you're wired for the kind of chaos that this is.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
So but you know it's funny, and I would imagine
you have the same in our business. I know, I've
had conversations with people who are like lawyers and doctors
that we would go, well, they're a lawyer or a doctor,
but they look at what we do sure as like
we are in entertainment. Yeah, I mean we talk about
it here all the time. I mean, you know, we
can casually say that, you know, the lead singer for
(09:11):
x y Z band came by, and you tell that
to somebody else, and you know, their jaw jobs open
and you're like, yeah, wasn't that big of a deal.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
Yeah, there's parts of it that you kind of take
for granted. You know the amount of different games I've
gotten to go to just sure, you know, whether clients
or whatever. Like those kinds of things are the fun.
But even just the rooms we've been in. I mean,
Coke has been a partner of ours for a long
time and I've been in their offices, which is like
a security vault to get in stuff like that. Just
(09:39):
it's interesting experiences, even just the places you get to
go to. I'm kind of cognizant that most of America
does not really leave their zip code that often, and
it's no big deal for me to have a day
trip to San Francisco one week and be at DC
and it's just that kind of stuff is not normal
for most industries.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
So I actually had this conversation last week you touched
on we get to do stuff that week?
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Right, probably take.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
For granted, and I think about all the things on
my end real quick.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
What's kind of that one thing You're like, I can't
believe I got to do this.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
Oh man, that's a good that's a good question. I
had a market for a while with one of our
brands in Salt Lake City and got a chance to
basically hang.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
For a week and do sun Dance.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
And I'm a movie fanatic as well, and so getting
to kind of experience that and literally bump into celebrities
during that time period and all that like that was
that was super fun.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
So but again, what did you say?
Speaker 3 (10:38):
So I went to a screening that had one of
the Hobbits from Lord of the Rings in it. I
can't remember which one.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Totally good with Lord of the Rings.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
All of the other Hobbits were there to support them.
And then we were sitting next to Melissa McCarthy, who
at the time was really only known for I know,
but she was at the time, she was really only
known for Gilmore Girls and my wife that was like
her favorite show. And she's like, uh, because I hadn't
even noticed typical and she's like, uh, did you see
who I'm sitting by? And you know, it's very casual there,
(11:07):
like that kind of stuff happens all the time. So
the other one, do you guys remember the situation with
Gwyneth Paltrow and the ski incident where she had a lawsuit.
Oh yeah, okay, I was on the mountain that day, reinvolved. No,
I was not involved, and she was not. She did
not hit me, but I went and looked when that
lawsuit came up. I had because I had seen her
(11:27):
that day on the mountain.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
I was like, that's weird.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
Is it possible that it was the same day? And
it was and I was there for Sundance anyway, so
I guess I could have possibly had.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
A lawsuit on my hands too. So I don't know,
missed opportunity.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Maybe maybe I'll just throw it out because I get
chills every time I saw the story tell the story.
I got to go see Zach Brown band, who I love,
a small venue and the person I.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Was with was involved and said, hey, don't leave.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
So the show was ending, the house lights came up,
small venue and this gentlemen walks on stage and people
are wondering who as they had a hood on.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Guy takes his hood off.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
It's Dave Girl of the Food Fighters, and they proceeded
to cover Enter sand Man. One of the coolest things
I've ever seen. And to the point, five hundred people
got to see that, right right, Yeah, better chance to
win the lottery. Really, but you know, we are we
are fortunate. I mean, I would say a good segue.
Maybe you've been at moroc for twenty years. So in
this business, that kind of longevity and growth within one
(12:28):
place is really interesting. And I you know when I
called you about joining me today, I know we talked
about when we work together, you know, ten years ago,
and you know then you see where we are now,
and so it's really interesting.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
What thinking about the twenty years like? Tell me about
that path? Yeah, it's funny.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
So when I came to Morocc, I have had two stops,
one of which headcats in it, as we've talked about,
and my kind of I knew enough about trying to
find the right place. And so this being my third job,
I said, there's really two things, and I literally said
it from day one. I will stay at Moroc as
(13:08):
long as I have stability, just because I had been
through some really roller coaster experiences.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Cat Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
Yeah, Well like both of the places I was at
ended up closing six months.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
After I got it, yeap. And then Common Nope, not
in Common. In fact, I used to hold that over
our boss.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
I you know, like when I leave, the place tends
to fall apart, so you know, no. But and then
second was just I didn't want to ever have I
guess I wanted unlimited growth in terms of I never
wanted to stop like pushing myself. And so I feel
like I after twenty plus years can check both of
those boxes pretty well and really just fortunate. And for
(13:48):
me now it's kind of like flipping it around and saying,
how can I give that experience.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
To other people too?
Speaker 3 (13:53):
Because often when people are moving to something, it's for advancement.
It could be money, could be doing something new, could
be switching up things entirely, and like, I want to
encourage people to have that open conversation so that we
can navigate with them, because you know, they are in
charge of their destiny, but we can certainly we're big
enough agency that we.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
Can help help give you know, options to people too.
So for sure anyway, for sure.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
So you and I are talking very familiar about Moroc
because we've worked together and we have a history. But
for people listening who aren't aware of Moroc and what
you all do, why don't you talk a little bit
about that, especially now with your vision as CEO.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
What that means. Yeah, we're it's unique.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
I kind of look at us as a forty almost
forty five year old startup. So we were founded by
two gentlemen who are still part of our board, and really,
you know, kind of a cool story in terms of
how they started but basically bought the agency for a
dollar and ended up buying the agency that they bought
(14:56):
it from down the road. So fantastic, just like Roots
in beginning, and we kind of hit COVID with some
questions to answer about our future. Yeah, and COVID was
really actually beneficial for us in many ways because it
kind of gave us a minute to say, how do
we get ahead of you know, our competitors, and how
do we kind of map out the future. And so
(15:18):
we're still on that roadmap and path. We've always been
an agency focused around what we would call like multilocation
at scale, like that's our differentiator. And that can look
like big giant brands where we're working with thousands of locations,
and it can be you know, smaller brands that are
are just getting started. But anyway, it's it's it's been
(15:38):
a lot of fun kind of mapping out and treating
ourselves a bit like a startup.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Yeah, I think that's I think that's important.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
You know, you mentioned your differentiator and in the in
the marketplace, you're you know, moroc Is known as the
franchise Whisper Sure and you know, working with a brand
like McDonald's for forty plus years. You know, what do
you think the secret to that kind of partnership is
(16:05):
when I think sometimes the word partnership is thrown around
a little too loosely, but clearly that's what you have
with McDonald's.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Yeah, do you think you've done that?
Speaker 3 (16:13):
Yeah, and we have you know, minus thirty plus years. Yes,
Planet Fitness over ten years, yep. I think a couple things.
So one kind of fun story, we're actually working with
the grandson of our first client, which stop kind of
is unique obviously in the ad industry world, but I
think it's also kind of reflective of the way that
(16:33):
we've always approached it, which you know, our founders were
always about playing the long game, not just short term.
I want to have a transactional relationship with with somebody.
They wanted to build a partnership, and sometimes that means,
you know, there's lean years and then there's healthy years,
and you have to figure that out as you go.
I think though that you know, so probably sixty percent
(16:55):
of our client base are the franchisee, the dealer, the
fitness club own or whatever. And what I love about
that environment. You know, sometimes they don't get enough credit
for their smarts, particularly in the marketing space, but they
are they are businessmen that are running businesses across and
have expertise across a lot of areas, and so it's
(17:15):
just a different kind of relationship because they don't live
in marketing, you know, three hundred and sixty five days
out of a year. So it's just a it's a
different relationship you have with them. But what I do
love is they're obviously invested in the business in a
way that other.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
Clients wouldn't be.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
And so that to me is you're really helping somebody
build you know, often generational business for their family for
you know, now grandsons.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
That's a I mean I've never heard of that.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
Yeah, I mean when you think about you know, you
read in the trades all the time, the life span
of a CMO or all of those things.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Ye like to say that.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
I'm really blown away by that because I knew the
McDonald's piece. I'd kind of forgotten about Planet Fitness and
even Midas when said that, is there any moment you
can take of with one of those three where you're like,
oh boy, we're hanging on by a thread, and.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
Like, how did you I mean, sure, and it's interesting
because a lot of those kind of clients are more
of a portfolio than they are a single client, because
you know, some of them, it's literally hundreds of client
touch points that we have, and you know, with that,
there's kind of a constant challenge. We went through a
situation with one of the clients where new CMO comes in,
(18:30):
he wants to consolidate everything, kind of the typical story
he brings in a holding company. And what we decided
to do was we went and pitched with two other
independent agencies and basically kind of created our own version
of that, and interestingly, we scored the best, but the
CMO wanted the kind of splash in the headline, so
(18:51):
he went with the holding company. But within six months,
that whole strategy fell apart and they came back and
hired the three agent sees individually. And so that was
a moment of like we went from you know, kind
of a euphoria of pitching and feeling like we had
won it, losing it and then getting it back in
(19:12):
six months and so you know, and you know, we
now have four or five years since that time period
and great track record since then.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
So but that was that was a challenging one.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
So this will be this question will be a little
bit broader, but it'll be specific to moroc as you
as you talked about the longevity with some of these accounts,
there has to be I would think something cultural within
moroc that allowed that that makes it mandatory for newcomers
to understand there's a way we do business to maintain
(19:45):
this kind of longevity.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
What do you think the cultural thing is that.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
You will It's funny because I culture used to be
something I definitely took for granted. I think that was
kind of a post COVID thing, was like we got
to codify these things. And because we we're bringing and
building lots of new stuff, and to your point, like
how do you bring people along? So we have value
structure that's really important to us, and we celebrate those
(20:09):
values once a year, and those values kind of dig
into so as an example, tenacity is one of our
values that kind of speaks to you know, you aren't
just gonna take a no for an answer, or you
know we failed at this, like we're going to figure
it out. And it's those kinds of things that we've
tried to weave in I also realized you have to
(20:31):
kind of hire people that have different backgrounds for the
environment we're into, and we learned some of that just
you know, some agencies are structured and built very differently
and people can adapt obviously, but it's also kind of
who you bring in.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
Is it important to I got to imagine as CEO,
you've got twenty years experience and you're talking about clients
with lots of longevity and trust. There's got to be
a balance though in there of not just always having
the same roc people doing things. And it's a balance
because you have to have that culture that is that
(21:06):
is long term and ingrained. But it's like how do
you kind of mention it, how do you bring in
the new ideas so you remain fresh and merge the
two together.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
Yeah, and that is a tricky balance because longevity with
our people is important too, And we have a wall
that has caricatures when you hit five years and we
celebrate that.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
That's important.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
But the flip side is, you know, we also have
we had a local artist in our new office space
do a chameleon that has moroc kind of woven into it.
And the chameleon is meant to symbolize that exactly what
you were talking about, Like we have to constantly be
changing and evolving with that, and you know, and off
with a lot of our.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Brands, and especially in the franchise world, like you're as.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
Good as your last meeting, yep, and you have to
What is interesting is some of the brands were on
we're one of another agency, and we actually talk all
about all the time that that actually keeps you on
your toes because of course they could take business at
any given time, and so you have to be you
have to be in frankly, we've got some brands that
(22:09):
scorecard us on an even quarterly basis, and so certainly
you have to be on your toes to stay at
the top in those environments.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
Well, but I would imagine too, in a weird way,
by having to partner with other agencies who do things differently,
it keeps you from being so siloed and thinking that
only our way is the only way.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
And you could pick the thing up to two.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
That maintains a certain amount of you know, new fresh ideas.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
That kind of a thing.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
Yeah, And the other part that kind of speaks exactly
to what you just said. We're part of WPI Network,
which is a global network of eighty agencies, and we
get together twice a year with them. They have like
subgroups that meet on specific topics, and we put ourselves
in there specifically for this reason too. You know, if
there's an agency doing something cool within their network, they
(22:57):
will open up and say, this is how we did
it and what we thought about it. That's great, Like
it's a great smart learning environment.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Uh. You know something we constantly challenge ourselves with. I
mean I have to think, you know, given.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
You've been at MOROC twenty years, you've been in the
CEO role for what five seven seven?
Speaker 2 (23:14):
Okay, I only because I did the math the other day. Yeah,
I mean when I asked, yes, yes, that's probably.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
But but you know, with that is the responsibility of
juggling the two. Like, you know, I've got to put
us out there, but I've got to maintain with these
long term partners have expected of us. And I gotta
imagine that takes a lot of your Yeah, especially because
you know, as an independent agency, one of the distinct
advantages is that you do have leaned in leadership and
(23:41):
you know, we're a mid size agency. But that doesn't
mean that you can't get to know leadership both from
employee perspective or client. And but back to your kind
of point in my mind, like whether it's an existing
client or if it's new business, like, it's the same.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
We have to constantly be fresh.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
Our mantra actually within our creative team that they use
is relentlessly fresh. And I love that kind of spirit
of you know, we're not taking this meeting off like
this one pushes the ball forward like every meeting.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
You have to treat it that way. You mentioned a
few minutes ago the holding companies.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
You know, with all the change in the advertising and
media industry, how do you differentiate from the big holding
companies because a lot of times people will sit there
and say, Wow, we're the biggest, and so that means
we're the best.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
Yeah, it's interesting, I actually think so.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
I was doing this kind of AI exercise trying to
scrape around what are the industry trends that are out
there and kind of what are the things to solve
for going into next year, And it was interesting because
a lot of them were definitely in the camp of
an indie agency being able to solve better than a
holding company. So like one of them was localization at scale,
(24:51):
like brands are starting to think about my brand isn't
just a kind of cookie cutter thing across the US
or globally or whatever. It needs to show up differently
in different areas.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Yep, you know differentation in general.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
I think because you talk to most RFPs that I
see from a new new client opportunity, they feel like
they're in a sea of saneness, and so how.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
Do you differentiate yourself? And so I don't know to me.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
And also I think media has gotten more democratic in
the sense that the buying power piece is kind of
it still exists, but it's not as.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Important as it used to be.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
Why do you say that I agree with you, by
the way, I think, particularly in digital platforms, because you're
now trading for customers. You're not going and negotiating these
big you know, lump deals and things like that, and
were hands on keys and can get into platforms and.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Do what we need to do. So I don't know.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
I think a lot of their story and you know, frankly,
like when we work with other agencies, we choose to
partner with them.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
In the holding company world, they are forced to.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
And so to me, there's a lot of advantage to
and I also think probably last point would be there's
a constant push around nimbleness and flexibility.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
Yeah, you know in these that to me is a
distinct advantage as well. So I'm gonna take I'm gonna
take a do tourch just for a second.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
Do you think partnerships with vendors like an iHeart in
this case allow you to be nimble like if you
do them in.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
The right places. Yeah, yeah, and really cultivate them. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:25):
I mean it's funny because as data driven as our
industry is, it's still very relationship driven. It'll always be,
It'll always be, and maybe even more now than ever
in the sense that you know, there's also like this
this thing called not enough time that seems to plague
our industry quite a bit. Even I think the some
(26:46):
of the upfront investment in partners like you so that
when things do pop and surface like you can move fast.
We've always talked about you guys are a great example
of this. How y'all are eyes and ears in the
ground for us, And like we leverage that all of
the time because you know you're going to see something
in a local market much more quickly than correct anybody
(27:09):
else and feel it and come to us with that idea.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
So those are huge for us.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
Yeah, it's funny because I think this, you know, we're
talking specifically about the advertising and media landscape, but those
strategic partnerships, you know, go both ways in terms of
listening and being okay with Hey, you may need to
know this whatever this is right?
Speaker 2 (27:31):
You know. I think that you know, you mentioned programmatic,
you know.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Which is a big thing that's you know, it's on
everyone's minds and talked about. And when you think about
how much money has gone from direct iote to programmatic
is staggering.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
When you really look at it. What other channel?
Speaker 1 (27:46):
Like what challenges you see in the industry from a
programmatic perspective or digital perspective or broadcast perspective, Like, what
do you see?
Speaker 3 (27:52):
I think the biggest one that we've been wrestling with,
which has existed for a while, but it's that balance
of brand versus performance. Yeah, and definitely this year we
started to see some brands realize yeah, yeah, I actually
do have to cultivate and take care of the brand
aspect of things. I can't just go for kind of
the low lowest hanging customer lead aspect. That's extremely important
(28:15):
and it's also the most you know, result driven and visible.
But you have to have the balance of also getting
your brand out the way that you want it to.
And so I'm hoping that more brands will start to
recognize that because there has been this push towards lower funnel,
lower funnel, lower funnel, and you know, like I said,
we've had some brands that started to swing the other direction.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
It's a really good performance.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
And I think that goes back to how do you
differentiate in a market that's very.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
Competitive right now?
Speaker 3 (28:43):
A lot of our industries it's about market share because
the industry is not growing just with where the consumer
is at.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
Yeah, so how do you stand out and do that? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (28:53):
Well, and I think it's you know, where it becomes
so challenging on your end and you know on ours
as well, where you know, any of the media companies
don't just sell one thing anymore, not like when I
started and when you started in the business, you know,
is figuring out what's the mix, right, you know, because
you know this channel does this, and how does it
fit together? And ultimately you know you said it, you know,
(29:14):
I've kind of come a believer. You know, you live
by price, You're going to die by price, you know,
because there's so much more to it.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
We also have a thing that we do called can
versus should and it's it's it's kind of fun in
the sense that there's a lot of things.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
We can do.
Speaker 3 (29:31):
Yeah, and any brand can sit there and be like, oh,
I could do that, I could What should you do? Like,
what is the prioritization for your business? And that's actually
a very important question to ask early on. Yeah, and
then it kind of reframes and reprioritizes.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
It's funny. I've said this to teams before, just because
you can doesn't mean you should.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
Yeah, And so I I this has been a great conversation,
and I want to wrap up with one more thing
on a positive And then there's one last piece of
this that you were not prepared for. Okay, we've talked
about challenges and all of that, and and what you've
done at MOROCC which is super interesting.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
We go on, but no one wants to listen to
you and I talked for four hours. But where do
you see the biggest opportunities in the industry?
Speaker 1 (30:11):
Now?
Speaker 3 (30:11):
Yeah, I mean some of it goes back to what
I was talking about. I think there is a sea
off sameness that's happening. I think there's a bit of
brands losing their differentation in the marketplace. I think that
you know, Ai, we haven't said those that word. Well,
we've talked and that's hard to dance around in our industry,
(30:31):
and we're embracing it and integrating it in I mean,
I think, I think all of those things are kind
of to me, it's never one thing, it's like several
happening all at once.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
Yeah, but those are probably areas I focus in on. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
I don't know if you saw the press release from
our company over the last couple of weeks about Guaranteed
Human Yeah, And it's important and I think it's important
for our listeners to know that, like, that's a person
talking to you, because if you don't want the person,
you can certainly go streaming audio or whatever. But when
you tune in on the broadcast sense you want that
relationship in that connection.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (31:05):
It's amazing how quick in culture that whole topic kind
of flipped into a negative space, which is interesting. I
kind of like the balance on some level, but it
also makes me a little worried that people are going
to just be so anti it and not see the
good benefits from it to one hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
Well, like when I watch stuff on reels or whatever,
you're like, Okay, that's not real, and then I get annoyed, right,
And I think that's why it's important. I was really
happy that we came out with that guaranteed human statement
because that's the promise.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
Of that product.
Speaker 3 (31:33):
Place to take stands one absolutely percent.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
So okay, this has been great. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
One of the things when I called you, we talked
about both being gen xers. Yes, so we thought it'd
be really fun to wrap up the conversation.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
We've dubbed this section question roulette.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
Okay, there are three questions in there's a question in
each one of these oncoes that to what we talked
about around gen X.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
I'm gonna let you pick to pick. You want to
do two questions? The number two you could Oh, you
want number two?
Speaker 1 (32:08):
Okay, So what you need to do is open read
the question and then share your answer with us.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
Let's see what we got. I fell a connection with
this one right away. I don't know why. Topic in
the beginning, what was your first job. This is a
funny one.
Speaker 3 (32:26):
So I lived on the east side of Dallas and
there was a little restaurant called Swamp Jaw and it
was a Cajun restaurant, of course it was. And they
literally had one cassette tape of Fats Domino that the
whole summer they would just flip it over play the
six songs, flip it back, over play the six songs.
(32:47):
So to this day it's kind of triggering when I
hear any of his music. But the funny, funny side
story on them, they decided to make them. They moved
from like a traditional menu driven restaurant to a buffet
in Mesquite oldies. To anybody in Mesquite, that's the wrong move.
And so they went out of business within like three months.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
Anyway, that was.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
My Well with your work in the QSR space, do
you ever share like stay away from past dominant?
Speaker 2 (33:14):
Yeah? Possibly, Yeah, that's great. Yes, Well, Matt, thank you
for joining us.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
It was great talking to you and sharing all this
with us, and we'll be talking I'm sure very soon.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
Awesome, Thank you for having me. Awesome, thank you
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