March 18, 2026 • 44 mins
From Marine Science to Marketing Mogul: Amy Hall's Journey to Agency Ownership
In this episode of Dallas CEOs You Should Know, host Chris Long sits down with Amy Hall, owner of The Barber Shop Marketing, to trace her unconventional path from small-town Tennessee to leading one of Dallas's most respected agencies.
Amy shares how a pivotal moment with a mentor at Coastal Carolina University redirected her from marine science to fine arts and ultimately into the world of experiential marketing, working with brands like Camel and Audi North America. She opens up about co-founding Driver's Select with her then-husband, navigating the highs of rapid growth alongside the realities of building a business while raising a family, and surviving both the post-9/11 economy and the 2008–2009 crash.
In 2016, Amy acquired The Barber Shop Marketing from founder Liz Barber, closing the deal just six weeks after their first conversation. She talks candidly about the imposter syndrome of Day One, the discipline of listening before making changes, and the hard-earned lessons about smart growth over fast growth. Now approaching her 10th anniversary as owner, Amy reveals what's next including revisiting an acquisition opportunity five years in the making.
Plus: first concert confessions (New Kids on the Block!), the Twizzlers vs. salt and vinegar chips debate, and why curiosity is the one trait she values most in her team.
CEOs You Should Know DFW features candid conversations with leaders shaping business in North Texas and beyond, hosted by Chris Long, Region President of iHeartMedia Dallas/Fort Worth. Follow, Rate, and Subscribe on the podcast platform you are listening on!
In this episode of Dallas CEOs You Should Know, host Chris Long sits down with Amy Hall, owner of The Barber Shop Marketing, to trace her unconventional path from small-town Tennessee to leading one of Dallas's most respected agencies.
Amy shares how a pivotal moment with a mentor at Coastal Carolina University redirected her from marine science to fine arts and ultimately into the world of experiential marketing, working with brands like Camel and Audi North America. She opens up about co-founding Driver's Select with her then-husband, navigating the highs of rapid growth alongside the realities of building a business while raising a family, and surviving both the post-9/11 economy and the 2008–2009 crash.
In 2016, Amy acquired The Barber Shop Marketing from founder Liz Barber, closing the deal just six weeks after their first conversation. She talks candidly about the imposter syndrome of Day One, the discipline of listening before making changes, and the hard-earned lessons about smart growth over fast growth. Now approaching her 10th anniversary as owner, Amy reveals what's next including revisiting an acquisition opportunity five years in the making.
Plus: first concert confessions (New Kids on the Block!), the Twizzlers vs. salt and vinegar chips debate, and why curiosity is the one trait she values most in her team.
CEOs You Should Know DFW features candid conversations with leaders shaping business in North Texas and beyond, hosted by Chris Long, Region President of iHeartMedia Dallas/Fort Worth. Follow, Rate, and Subscribe on the podcast platform you are listening on!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is CEOs You Should Know, with Dallas market president
of iHeartMedia Chris Long. Welcome everybody to an episode of
CEOs you Should Know. I'm Chris Long, Dallas market president
for iHeartMedia, and I am here with my friend Amy
Hall from the barbershop.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
How you doing good to have you here. We're excited.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
We've had some pre conversation, got some things out of
the way that'll make this hopefully an interesting conversation for everybody.
But as we do we start every podcast, we now
have a ranker. I guess going, don't we Amanda with
two questions that we ask all of our guests. I
think it makes sense. With iHeart being the largest audio
(00:45):
platform in the country with eight hundred and sixty radio
station podcast streaming anything and everything audio.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
I would be remiss if I didn't ask.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
You what was your first concert and what podcasts are
you listening to right now?
Speaker 3 (00:59):
Okay? First concert was New Kids on the Block?
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Okay, so I didn't tell you what you were up against.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
We recently had Boston jump into the first. Okay, that's over.
Pink Floyd.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Oh, Pink Floyd's a good one.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
And we had Johnny Cash too.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Mind stinks because it was meant at work. Total gen
X eighties kid and the number one spot you may
be competing for it. I think we'll have to have
a vote. Number one right now is Whitney Houston.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
Oh that's that's solid. That's solid, I know, right. Yeah,
new Kids on the Block. Though I was early adopter
on the boy band Bandwagon. This was in Nashville. I
grew up in basically a suburb of Nashville in Nashville,
So saw it at I think what's now bridgetowne Arena.
I don't remember what it was then, but yeah, but
it was a big deal.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Who is your new kid?
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Well?
Speaker 3 (01:52):
I was Joey whenever I was younger, but then as
I matured, Yeah, I liked Jordan.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Okay, quick, quite serious question. Would you go see them now?
Like I f be an opportunity.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
I actually did. I think they toured about like a
year or two ago. They were on that mixtape tour
and it was so much fun. It was there was
Salton Pepa, was there, Debbie Gibson, I mean it was
peak you know, kind of like late eighties.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Actually night, Yeah you mean Debbie, that'd be great. Okay.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
So podcast podcasts I do not listen to podcasts regularly.
I do sporadically listen. I have clients that have some podcasts,
so I listened to some of theirs, particularly you know
when client just launched one called the Kingdom Method. You know,
different business development podcast, but I don't listen to them
(02:43):
because I read a lot. So I'm typically reading two
or three books. I'll do like one on audio and
then I'll physically read. But you know, I'm rotating between
two or three books, and I read a lot of
professional development books, so I'm reading them instead of doing podcasts,
and I'll listen and I'll listen to podcast clips. So sure,
so you know, like I'm a big Brene Brown fan,
so but I won't listen to the whole podcast, but
(03:05):
I will listen to like the little shorts and the clips.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
It's kind of divided because a few of our guests
big readers kind of similar answer the content very similar.
I have yet to be yet to hear true crime
or their favorite sports podcast tend to be business and
industry related.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
I think that might tell us something.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
About focused drive and what needs to be done to
get to the levels that CEOs are at. But interesting, well,
hopefully you'll enjoy this podcast and then make this a
regular in rotation. Okay, So I think it's always fun
to figure out where our leaders started.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Little background.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
So you went to Coastal Carolina to college, Yes, talk
about that a little bit.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
I grew up in a well, it's not a small
town anymore. It's basically a suburb of Ashville now, but
a small town in middle Tennessee. Great town, very blue
collar town, a lot of manufacturing, a lot of people
got great jobs going out of you know, high school.
You didn't have to be on that college path. I
knew that was for me, and I just wanted out
of my small town. Not in common, wanted out of
(04:16):
my small town. So found a way. You know. This
was my parents, which is great now. They were like,
you're not getting student loans. We have saved X amount
of money for college, so we have to find something
that fits here. Applied for a bunch of scholarships. I
got a grant to go as a marine science major
because you could go for in state tuition. So I
ended up at Coastal Carolina marine science major. That was
(04:38):
not the path for me.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
A year and a half in, I don't think marine
science tracks straight to marketing and everything.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
No, no, okay, no it doesn't. So I did that
a year and a half realized, yeah, that's not for me.
But what am I going to do? And I recently
went back intod the commencement speech and I and I
do some mentorship with the university and I got back
involved in twenty nine ten and it's great. And the
reason I went back and did that was because that's
(05:04):
when I found my first mentor. Because I went and
I asked for help and I didn't know what I
was going to do. I ended up being an art major.
I was involved in art and artistic and did a
lot of art shows, apprentised with artists. When of ours
in high school, every said you should go to art school.
I was eighteen and I was like, no, I'm going
to be a marine science major. You know, like, yeah,
that makes that makes sense. So yeah. So I found
(05:28):
my first mentor in the art department who really helped
me and was like, look, we're going to figure this out.
Here's your new course schedule, show up to these classes tomorrow.
We'll get this worked out. And somebody that I've stayed
in touch with still to this day, I was.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
Going to ask. Yeah, Yeah, It's funny when you think
about those people, is there a moment with that person
where you felt like, oh, this is starting to make sense?
Because as we've done these episodes, almost you know, every
one of them has had that moment. Was there a
(06:01):
moment for you where you're like, Okay, now I'm on
the right path. This makes sense.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
I mean, I you know, you think I was thinking
all this, How do I tell my parents? This might
I have to go home? What does this mean? Am
I going to lose my scholarship? Am I going to
be all these things that I didn't know how to navigate?
Speaker 1 (06:15):
It?
Speaker 3 (06:16):
Nineteen? Yeah, like nineteen years old. And you know this
person that didn't have to help me, that had no
skin in the game, that just sat down and listened
to me, watching me cry.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
How did you find this week?
Speaker 3 (06:27):
I walked in. I walked in the art department, and
I asked if I and I asked if the dean
could see me, and I was able to just walk
in and sit down. I mean, it was just a
really small school at that time. It's really it's grown,
it's gotten big. You know, they they're oh, for sure
there now, but it was really small, and that was
one thing that was really great. And I mean and
he just sat down and was like listen to me
and was like, yeah, he should be an art major
(06:49):
and yeah, and we'll we'll do this and yeah. So
I mean it was like instantly and.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Then you found out it was like a delivery driver
who was yeahing who just happened to be in the office.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
Yeah, and so it was it was incredible and you know,
you help me get my first internship and you know,
just a person that helped me learn which my children,
you know, I raised them to know to advocate for themselves,
but I'm not of that generation where I think I
was really like given the tools to know how to
advocate for myself and to know how that it was
okay to ask for help. It was kind of like
(07:19):
you work hard, you push through, you figure it out.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Oh absolutely, you just that it was a really simple roadmap.
It was a B and C and like you said,
you work hard, you show up and you just do it.
Yeah and then see where you end up. So okay,
so you go through. So you got a fine arts degree.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
Yeah, I got a fine arts degree.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Okay, so you walk off stage where did you go?
Speaker 3 (07:40):
I got a job at an agency, and big agency
in the art department. Entry level job, but still like
I'm walking out of school with a job. I think
I'm making more money than I could ever spend, because
you know, it's like my first real job and it's awesome.
And nine months later I moved to North Miami for
this job and you know, no real network, no work good,
(08:03):
but you know, I'm young and just out of college
and it's fine. And then nine to eleven happened, okay,
and nine months after I got out of school and
I got laid off with fifteen hundred other people across
the company. They had offices in New York, in LA
and I didn't know that that could happen. So after
the high high and the and I graduated, I got
(08:25):
a path. I got a job because as an art major,
my parents were like, what are you going to do?
How are you going to make money? Are you going
to teach? I'm like no, so yeah, So I went
straight into agency and then straight into getting laid off
nine months later, and that was, yeah, that was.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Pretty much how you mapped it out. Yeah, parents, So I.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
Didn't know that could happen. I'm like, you do everything,
you check all the boxes, you do all the right things,
and then you know, something out of the flu that
you can't control can happen that's not your fault and
not performance based. And yeah, so that sort of set
me on the marketing path.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
So okay, so that leads to.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
You know, you talk about how of a generation you know,
you just figured out Yeah, you have no choice, you know.
I think today it's a little bit different, but back
then it was like no one was going to come
and save you, and you're going to have to figure
it out.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
So marketing, which is now the path, how did that happen?
Speaker 1 (09:20):
Uh?
Speaker 3 (09:21):
I was looking for jobs. I was applying for jobs,
and I had a girlfriend that was doing experiential work
for R. J. Reynolds at that time, and the experiential
world in the early two thousands was vastly different than
it is now. It was a small community of people
that did it, of agencies that did it. It was really specialized.
So she was doing work for She had gotten a
(09:42):
job doing regional work for R. J. Reynolds. They're the
cigarette company. So and she was working on the Seven
Pleasures of the Exotic Launch for camel cigarettes. Never been
a smoker, but it's it's random and she needed help.
She needed somebody that would show up, somebody that she
could count on. And I needed a job, and I
didn't know.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
It was like a great match.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Yeah, and so showed up started doing that. Turned out
that I was really really good at the experiential part.
I'm a really good logistics person, operations person. Behind the scenes,
there was a lot of planning. They were doing these
crazy parties with tents and camels and cigarette girls and
it was really fun and you know, doing all of
these things as a young person, and turns out that
(10:21):
world's really small, which led me to getting recruited by
AUDI and North America to work on their automotive marketing team,
which is how then I went into automotive marketing.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
So from art to cigarettes to automotive Yeah, okay, yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
So that's well, so that was the foundation.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
And what's foundation.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
What's interesting is you think about and we'll get to
it in a minute.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
When you acquired barbershop, you have the art side, the
creative side, figured out the experiential side, and the organizational
side and what it takes something to get from A
to Z and completed and now auto I would imagine
that was probably more of a bigger corporate feel type situation.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
It was a big corporate feel I mean it was amazing.
I got to travel the country. I was on a
thirty person team. I learned a lot, got to meet
a lot of people. And then that is where I
met my kid's dad, and he was in the automotive
business and that's actually what brought us to Texas. So
(11:24):
it was like, hey, let's start some automotive dealerships and
you know, work together and we have drivers select. Yeah,
so that's how that happened. You know, we met whenever
I was in DC. He was from d C. I
was traveling around. But it could not have been a
better experience. So me coming from a small town, I
went to a relatively small school. Yes, I moved to Miami,
(11:45):
but I got to travel the country. And if anybody
when they're young and before they're married, before they have kids,
gets the opportunity for a job where you get to travel,
you know where it's being paid for, the people that
you meet, the connections that you make. I'm still friends
with a lot of people that I worked with with
at that time. You know, and those are still relationships
that I keep. Then they've been sort of foundational, you know,
(12:08):
throughout my life.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
So yeah, it is funny now that my kids are older.
My daughter Alex was going on a business trip and
she was calling and asking some questions about how to
set up and figuring out the time because you have
to be different dinners and all the things just know
inherently after.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
You do it.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
And she's like, wow, Dad, that was super helpful, and
I laugh. I'm like, what do you think I been
doing the last thirty years? You know, I like just
disappear for the day and then come back and I'm Dad.
So it is funny when you because you're right, it
teaches you. There's so many life things you just learn,
you know, and making that network, and you know, as
a twenty something you don't realize like the number of
(12:45):
people that you and I both know that you may
be met on a trip or whatever, that they come
back around at some.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Point in your career and in your life.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
And so it is an important thing I think as
you mentor, and it sounds like you do like saying
this is an important foundationational time in your career for.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
Sure, and even the younger people that work in my office,
you know, the twenty somethings. Now, I think that, you know,
the COVID year's the COVID gap. But then being remote
for some part of maybe high school or college or
their first career and being isolated, I do think that
they're starving for that connection and when. But also I
(13:22):
don't think that they know how to make those connections
in other And so you know, a lot of what
we work on is, yeah, get involved in groups and
find people with interest or try new things and just
like go and just talk to people. And yeah, it
can be like a little scary at first, but they
don't have those tools that, like he said, we take
for granted because we've done it for like ever.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
Well, on almost every episode it's come up, you know,
the all that we learned just being in an office
and some of the stuff you just learned through osmosis
hearing veterans talk about problem situations, handling negotiations, whatever the
case may be. And you're right, like it's almost like
it's the quite essential. They don't know what they don't know,
(14:02):
and so the feeling of like, well, why would I
want to be in an office all the time, and
we're probably in my brain's going, why wouldn't you want
to be in the office all the time. Yeah, it's
annoying getting up, getting dressed and driving somewhere, but the
learning is invaluable to what it'll mean to you down
the road. So okay, so tell me about driver's select
that period of time.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
Moved to a new city, moved to a new seat,
moved to Dallas. Dallas is wonderful. We picked Dallas because
it fit all the demographics growing again. You know, we're
we're talking about about, you know, two thousand and four
when we moved here, before the eight o nine crash.
I mean, a great time to be here, A great time.
I mean it's still a great time to be here
and do business. I mean I can't imagine doing business
(14:42):
and living anywhere else because it's so business friendly and
welcoming and opening and coming from DC, which is a
much more closed business community that's a little harder to
crack everybody that comes here. So we came here, I
mean welcomed with open arms, worked incredibly hard, I mean
just crazy eight hour weeks. And Steve, my now ex,
(15:05):
he said something to me when we were starting this,
this is about to be the hardest thing that you'll
ever do, but the best thing that you'll ever do.
And both of those things were true. And I mean,
we just we hit the ground running. We opened up
a lot of dealerships. We grew really quickly. We built
an incredible brand, you know, and we were you know,
sort of the first to do some of the things
that you know, I see now and I see other
(15:26):
advertisers doing, at least in this market. I'm not saying we,
you know, invented things, but you know, we came We
didn't do offers. We came into the market with a jingle.
You know. We believed, we believed in heavy branding, you know,
and I mean we just high level branded, you know.
We had a look, you know, all the dealerships. Our
colors were really bright and intentional and the energy that
(15:46):
we brought and we tried.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
To make it fun.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
Yeah, and we tried to make it fun. We thought
that car buying should not be intimidating, and car buying
should be a little bit fun. And yeah, it's a
long process, and how do we make that easier? And
how do we educate people too? Right and like and
give some financial literacy tools because people get into things
(16:08):
that they don't under understand and make big financial decisions
really quickly and you know, not really intentionally. And then
you know, and you could see all these things when
people came in, like having somebody co sign on their
car that they didn't want them to co sign, or
negative equity and all of these things. And so it
was really really a fun time and we did amazing things,
and we even i mean we did Survival eight on
(16:29):
nine but completely changed the business model, really adapted quickly
to turning into like an online model. But you know,
all of that is also incredibly stressful when you grow
like that, you know, and at the peak we had,
you know, we had six dealerships.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
And it sounds like you're probably beginning to raise a family.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
Yep, yep, and had kids and and and you know,
and all the stress. And I mean, i'd say, now,
I mean we are great. We are great co parents
who are great business collaborators. We still, you know, we
still collaborate a lot, like we're still I think as
outing board for each other. And I think that that's
really great and that's really beautiful. And I learned so
so much, yeah, so much from that relationship and from
(17:08):
him in doing business that way. That really helped me
set me up for success in the future. But the
thing that's really hard, you know, and that people don't
talk about, is it's really hard to work with your spouse.
It's really hard to have young children. Marriage is hard
under the best circumstances, you know. So when we put
all those stresses on each other, I'm glad that on
the other side of it that we do have this
(17:28):
really beautiful close relationship still. But that's great. But that
one part didn't work, but everything else did.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Yeah. Yeah, It's funny because people, you know, when you say, oh,
I started, you know, a company, whatever the company is, Oh,
that must be amazing, Well it is, yeah, and I
did something similar for a period of time. The lessons
are you can't put a price tag on them because
they're so much different than working for a big corporation
(17:56):
where you have a very defined lane and all of that.
Whereas as you know, you know, doing something like that,
you're jumping from color scheme two offers to financing.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
I mean, you're doing it all and trying to juggle that.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Being a mother and raising kids and being present and
all of the other things that family requires is a
is a pretty taxing thing. But I would imagine that
I could tell by the way you look at it.
You look look back on that with a lot of
pride because it's what got you to where you are today.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
Yeah, and it was, and I wouldn't trade that, you know,
that experience for the world. And I think, you know,
hindsight en as you mature, you know, we did a
really bad job of turning it off. And I think
a lot of people, you know, especially when you're really driven,
and you know, we were too really type A really
driven people, really highly motivated, which is which are wonderful things,
but you do have a hard time setting boundaries and
(18:50):
turning it off. And you know, and I've worked on
that and I have more of those tools now. But
you know, whenever you just when you hit the ground
and you have something that takes off and you just
have to go with it and ride that wave. And
it's so fun. But there are you know, there are
there are sacrifices that come with that.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
So interesting.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
So I'll take a step back in timeline your career
for you just real quick. So two major cataclysmic things
in the economy slash the world, the nine to eleven
and the crash of eighth nine, starting your career, starting
a company, starting a family. We make it through all
(19:32):
of those things, and then in twenty sixteen you decide,
you know what, I'm going to buy an agent. So
it's interesting because a lot of our founders ascended through
companies or not founders. CEOs ascended through companies, some a
few were founders. You're the first who made an acquisition.
(19:53):
So tell me about that.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
Starting from scratch is really hard.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Sure it is.
Speaker 3 (19:57):
It's super hard. So obviously i'd been on brand side
with Audi. I'd been on you know, I call it
client side, which I was selected even though it was
brand's side, but client side, so I did, do you know,
I stant with with CBS and went to work there.
I wanted to learn vendor side while I was trying
of figuring out Oh of course, yes, I'm going to
(20:18):
see you, Brian. I'm going to see your Duora.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
Shot on Brian Party, who hired me in Kansas City
in nineteen ninety three.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
He's great at hiring people. He's great. Yeah, he fixed
great talent.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
Okay, Brian, we'll get you in anyway.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
So yeah, So went to work at CBS, trying to
figure out what I wanted to do. But I really
enjoyed learning the media side. You know, media had been
a you know, branding and media and buying media had
been a big part of what I'd done. I knew
the experiential side. CBS at that time was doing a
lot of experiential, you know, and with the media and
with the brand partnerships and the way they built stuff out,
(20:56):
and I was just kind of trying to figure it out.
And I wasn't looking to buy an agency. But Liz Barber,
who I bought the agency from, at least in this market,
she has an amazing reputation, an amazing legacy, and we
have a lot of similarity in our story. She worked
at CBS and she sort of founded the experiential there
(21:18):
and she went through kind of starting her life over
after a divorce and went to agency SAE, and we
just had these these weird similarities. And I'd known her
as an acqueen, as like a professional acquaintance, but she
was sort of this iconic, you know, figure in my
mind at that time. And I get a call and
somebody's like, there's an agency for sale, and I think
(21:40):
that you want to look at it, and I'm like,
what are you talking now? No, No, I'm like gift kids,
I need, I need insurance, I need yeah, I need
a paycheck. Like I'm not I don't have a pile
of money over here, Like I'm not looking for an agency.
I'm not good bye. And they're like no, no, no,
Like I think that you should call the broker and
like and look at it, and they're like, can't tell
you what it is. And so I called the broker
signed NDA and then I was like absolutely, And so
(22:04):
Liz and I with no intention of buying an agency,
my small brief period of you know, being at an agency,
Liz and I sat down and from that first conversation
we closed six weeks later. Like, I mean, that was
just it, Like it was yeah, I mean it was
a little at first sight.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
Okay, So you.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
Woke up one morning, yeah, not a not an owner
of a business, and by the end of the day,
after meeting and signing the NBA, you're like, oh, I'm
all in.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
Yeah, I was all in.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
That's great. What was it?
Speaker 1 (22:36):
What was the trigger you think? I mean, what was
the Yeah, this is it.
Speaker 3 (22:39):
Liz's philosophy and my philosophy, right, and how we approach business,
how we take care of clients, you know. I mean
I was, you know, even though clients side drivers, select,
but what I was doing for clients is at CBS,
and I love I love growth. I love helping businesses grow.
I love doing business the right way, which is oftentimes
the hard way, you know. But what Liz had was
(23:02):
really special, and whenever we talked, I saw what she
was trying to do. And she had spent fourteen years
building this agency, and a lot of other people wanted
to acquire her, you know, just strip the assets, strip
the clients, and She's like, I put my blood, sweat
and tears in this for fourteen years, and I want
this to live on. And I think I'm the first
person that like got that and wanted to honor what
(23:24):
she had built and just keep growing it and keep
moving it forward. And it just seemed like the right
thing to do, like, not even a question.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
It's interesting talking you know, she's a founder, right, yeah,
she built it. And we've spoken to a few founders
in our episodes, and I think it was doctor Harrison
at Mint Dentistry talks about you know, agonizing over all
of these details because he started it like out of
dental school, this is this is my thing. And I
(23:57):
think for those if you've never done it and been
on the outside, someone might be, well, you got this
valuable asset, just sell it and move off and run
off into the sun, you know, sunset.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
It's not that easy.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
Yeah, it's like a baby. It's like it's a child.
It's a baby that you've that you've nurtured and absolutely.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
So okay, you decided to dive in to ownership. What
was the first day?
Speaker 3 (24:19):
Like, the first day was like, oh my god, they're
gonna find out that I'm like a complete fraud and
I have no idea what I'm doing.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
Imposter syndrome.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
Yeah, like what is she doing here? What does she
do it? We're all terrified. We all better start looking
for jobs. But yeah, it was a little uh yeah,
I walked in and I was like, okay, wow, okay,
you know, like now what Luckily you know, Liz helped
with the transition and meeting clients and it's so relationship driven.
I mean that was really important upfront. So I mean
it was getting you know, the first I'd say that
(24:50):
probably the first two or three months was really sitting
down with the clients, learning the clients, making them feel
comfortable that hey, this is you know, if you're feeling it,
if you're feeling the transition, then we're doing something wrong
that you shouldn't feel this from a business perspective, and
getting their comfort level with me, and then I was
going to think about their business in the same way
that Liz was. And so we just handled that transition
(25:10):
very carefully.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
So it has been said that you are an improver
by nature.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
I don't know where I got that. It could be
the notes that I'm looking at, but I think it's interesting.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Because here you are, you're the new leader. You know,
you're walking on you know you weren't this is this
is interesting. You weren't elevated, promoted, you purchased from the founder,
and you go through the external transition of comfort and
all that. And I would imagine that your background gave
(25:44):
them comfort. You know, you have a lot of the
disciplines covered and interesting and varied experiences. Talk about the internal,
you know, because as a CEO and as a leader,
you know there are situations that can be difficult, and
we know change is no ver easy. How did you
manage that? Just side question, how long did Liz hang around?
(26:05):
Because at some point she's got to step away.
Speaker 3 (26:07):
Yeah we did. We did a year consulting agreement. But really,
let's see, we closed in May and then by the holidays.
I mean it was like kind of call me if
you need me. I'm going on vacation, you know. But
you know, she was still there, you know, if I
had questions or if I got stuck, which was which
was really great. I am a believer in taking a minute,
(26:30):
whether you're switching a role or a job or looking
at a company, and sitting and looking at what you
have before you make too many changes, because because change
is uncomfortable. And even though I had ideas going in
and things that I wanted to do, but getting to
know your people, because I think people in her new
roles with so much enthusiasm that they're just like, well,
I have all these ideas and I'm going to make
(26:51):
it better and stuff's not always broken.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
Correct, that's a great point, And I think.
Speaker 3 (26:57):
That they get too over enthusiastic of this is the
luence that I want to make instead of sort of
learning what's there, really learning what's working and then where
am I going to have the most impact Because people
can only absorb so much change at once to an
uncomfortable point. And I'm really comfortable with driving change, but
I've learned that the way that people receive that change,
(27:20):
it can be very very uncomfortable and counter productive. Right,
And there are times that you need to push it,
and there are times when you need to pull back,
and there's times that you need to aide what are
really the important things that you should change and what's
maybe okay, this is important to me, but this is
not really going to have the biggest impact. And you know,
when I'm looking at like the greater, at the greater organization,
and so it's like learning to let go of some stuff. So,
(27:43):
you know, we made a lot of changes, but I did.
I sat with the team that she had. I mean,
I brought some additional people in. Some people ended up
you know, great people, great people in the business, but
ended up not being a fit.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
And that's okay, yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
And.
Speaker 3 (28:01):
You know, I mean it ends up working out. And
then you know, the things that I wanted to do
to improve and set the groundwork, and you know, just
investing in some technology and investing in some new resources
and giving people some new tools and just you know,
creating that environment. We ended up moving our office, which
just because our lease was up and the building wasn't
(28:22):
great to negotiate with, But that ended up being something
that I hadn't intended to change up front. But it
does create a new energy and a new opportunity and
it kind of shifts the dynamic of you know, some
of the things that people were entrenched in.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
So you know, it's it's interesting because, right you come
into a situation as a new leader at any level,
you know, you're responsible for whatever it is you've been
tasked with, and you have all these ideas and things
you want to do. So it becomes very easy to
be the one doing all the talking versus listening, and
you can figure things out a lot better, I think
(28:58):
in the beginning by listening, and then you chart the
course on where you need to go because you know,
you see it all the time, like in sports and
things like that, fire the coach, do this, do that.
You're like, okay, then what yeah, yeah, okay, great, so
we've made we've done something, but what is the outcome
we're looking for? So at the time, was that twenty
sixteen transformation going on to media or digital digital audios
(29:23):
becoming a thing and all of that.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
How did you manage that? With moving offices.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
I'm the new leader of this organization probably starting to
grow some what was how did you lead through that?
Speaker 3 (29:37):
I mean, I like to be an early adopter. And
the beautiful thing about being on the agency side, and
what I really love about that, regardless of being tied
to a brand or a product, and this is, you know,
I share this with clients and anybody that comes to
work with me, is that on agency side, I think
that we it's our job to know everything that's available
and everything that's out there. And the great thing is
we can really listen to our clients and it's sort
(29:59):
of like, you know, like you have a shelf with
every possibility like lined up, and you can say, okay,
like here's here's your budget, here's here's your goals that
you're trying to accomplish. I think for you it's this, this,
and this, where for somebody else it's maybe these three
other things. You know, I'm a big proponent of pigging
your tactics and doing them well and then layering on
the next thing and having fully integrated marketing plans and
(30:21):
that there's no magic bullet and all these conversations that
we have all the time with our clients. But that
was an area that I saw and just because of
some of the pivots, we had to make it to
ever select what I saw happening in the industry. We
started adopting digital early, and the agency had a really
great reputation for creative and also for media buying, and
(30:43):
at the time that I took over, digital budgets were
still separate at that time, so you had your traditional
budget and you had your digital budget. But it was
the start of like, hey, this is going to blend together,
and this is not going to be two separate things.
This is going to be like one big thing. So
we started I mean, i'd say probably in the first
few months that I saw that as an opportunity of where, hey,
(31:05):
if we don't start learning and if we don't start
incorporating this, like we're really going to miss the boat here.
And that's great. We have a great reputation for creative
and media buying, but this is sort of going in
this different direction, and I think that this is a
big value add that we can have for our existing
clients and that will help us attract new clients.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
Was that given?
Speaker 1 (31:22):
Is that was at the same time you took over
and all that was that was that challenging.
Speaker 3 (31:27):
I think people were excited. I think that is one
thing that everybody got excited about, was to bring something
new in because I think when you kind of have
your formula of what's working for you and why clients
come to you, and that they're coming to you for
specific things, you know, I never want to be like
a one trick pony, you know, and most people and
(31:49):
you know, one of the things that's important is that
my whole team stays curious and curious about clients, curious
about what we can do for them, curious about what's
happen in the world. Because I think if we keep
that curiosity, then we can keep growing and we can
keep learning. And so I think that I'm lucky enough
to have people on the team that were curious enough
(32:10):
of like, hey, I do want to learn more about
this and how we can utilize this, and yeah, let's
try some things and you know, hopefully it works, and
if it doesn't, we can you know, we can pivot
and you know, try something else.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
It's interesting you say that because I think without mentioning
names in our in the media industry, and I'm sure,
I'm sure in all, but there's a sometimes can become
a feeling with more legacy companies, Oh, we already know
it all. We don't need to know something new, Versus
(32:43):
I look at the partners and the people that you know,
we probably mutually know some of them. They're like, I'm
doing my clients at a service. If I don't find
out what the new thing is, it doesn't mean I'm
gonna do it, but I better make sure I understand
it and consider it and see how that could fit.
So I mean, you're you're ten years now.
Speaker 3 (33:02):
Yeah, it's gonna be ten years in May.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
So let's let's let's do a little now and then
what was the thing? What was the one thing that
kept you up then kept you up at night thinking
about then as a leader, and what keeps you up now?
Speaker 2 (33:18):
And is it or and is it the same thing?
Speaker 3 (33:21):
You know, it's a little bit different. Whenever I took
over the agency, we had one client that was, you know,
heavily weighted a disproportionate percentage of our business, which was
a red flag whenever I sure took over and this
is a relationship business and it was a transition, and
so it was, well, what if this client leaves? You know,
what what happens? Yeah, what happens in Can I get
(33:44):
you know, can I get enough new business in? Can
I you know, can we retain the business? You know?
And I do talk a lot about this with with
peers and other agency owners, is that it is such
a relationship business, and it is a client retention business,
and it gets harder and harder as there are more
more options out there, and as there's pressure, and it's
just a more fragmented landscape and there's so many more
(34:05):
options out there, and like I said, and I think
people are just they're they're looking for that that quick fix,
and you know, and I come at it from more consultative.
So it was, what happens if this client leaves, am
I going to be able to keep everybody? And that
client got acquired in twenty nineteen and did leave. They
(34:25):
ended up coming back, They ended up coming out at happened,
but they got acquired. The company that acquired them had
an internal marketing team, so I had to you know,
but I had some years we had some more clients,
but it was still like a big, a big hit,
And so you know, that was a lesson learned to
you know, to keep diversifying, to keep growing, to keep
building your network too, you know, and COVID sort of
(34:48):
changed things too. But if that hadn't happened in twenty nineteen,
I wouldn't be as lean and as nimble, and I
couldn't have absorbed the changes and the changes we had
to make to the business during COVID and the of it.
And we had you know, we did a lot of
automotive prior to COVID, and then that that sort of
went away, and you know, we had some home service
clients and that vertical of our business, you know, really
(35:10):
exploded and we do a lot in the home services
and that was great, and you know, my peers, it's
it's really funny that people don't realize how sophisticated these
home service businesses are, and with private equity, and we
deal with a lot of private equity firms. But I
remember at the time when we were working in home services,
and you know, sort of the bougie people in the
agency world were like, well, you know, I have the
sexy clients. I have hotels and restaurants and and I
(35:33):
have and yeah, and you're doing yeah, and you're working
with plumbers and you're working with yeah. And then like
post COVID, I'm like, who has the sexy clients now?
Speaker 2 (35:41):
You know, like the ones that spend money and pay bills. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:44):
So you know, so it's just interesting to not get
caught up on ego and not get caught up on
flash and and you know. So, so what keeps me
up now is you know, lessons, lessons that I've learned
and how to move the business forward in the right way.
Because I was so focused on growth and growth quickly
(36:07):
and how can we grow as quick as we can?
I pulled back. I'm like, no, I want to grow smart.
I had looked at some some additional acquisitions which I'm
now revisiting, but it was really like, you need to
get your house in order. You need to focus on
your team. Because I think focusing on the growth and
the acquisition, whether the growth is organic or you know,
through supplementing the business or having strategic partnerships, I think
(36:28):
that that can be a distractor. Because it's fun, right,
It's like it's playtime, It's fun correct. And I think
that if I was really honest with myself for a
period of time whenever I was looking at that and
the team wasn't where it needed to be, I didn't
have the tools in place, I didn't have the right processes,
we weren't doing project management the right way. That instead
of putting your head down and like focusing on fixing
(36:50):
some of that that as a leader, you can distract
yourself with the fun stuff.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
A hundred for that.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
It's very it's it's it's a very seductive trap. Yeah,
because you could say, oh, this has to get done,
and then you really look at it and the real
hands dirty stuff can grow from you know, little teeny cracks,
they could start to turn into big valleys and then
you have a problems as a as a leader. You know,
(37:18):
I talk about this some you know their leaders and
their bosses, And I learned that from our our friend
Brian Party. And you know, as a leader, you have
to be willing to take on the hard stuff. You
have to do all the things that you're asking your
people to do, and then some you know, those are
things I think about a lot. What do you think about? Like,
you know, when you go through a day or if
you critique yourself.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
Driving home at night.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
As a leader, what do you what's kind of your
north star you think about that you want to be
thought of, and you want to make sure that you're
always doing.
Speaker 3 (37:47):
You know, I want to be present. I want to
be present with my people. And that's something that I'm
working on always. And you have your good days and
your bad days, and you know, and when I'm showing
up in the right way and how I'm showing up
and letting them do their job, and that I've hired
(38:09):
them for a reason, and the impact of really having
the right team and having the right support around you
and what that allows you to do as a leader.
And I think that's what sort of pivots you from
being a boss to a leader, because it's really easy
to get sucked back into the work or this isn't
happening perfectly, or this meeting didn't go exactly right, or
(38:30):
that pitch wasn't how I would have done it. Yeah,
you know, and the and the default is to the
the control thing and the and the jump in.
Speaker 2 (38:40):
But it's oh, I'll just do it.
Speaker 3 (38:41):
Yeah yeah, And it's like no, let's let's step back
Let's use that as development. Let's approach it with some patience,
Let's approach it with some empathy. Let's, you know, just
more of those those those soft skills that like I
wasn't necessarily raised with, but that I have to work
on more and more.
Speaker 2 (38:58):
And what's I have.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
I had a leader I worked with one time, and
you know, he mentioned soft skills and kind of you know,
kicked them to the side, and look, that can't be
one hundred percent of your game.
Speaker 2 (39:11):
Yeah, but I would imagine you have days like I.
Speaker 1 (39:14):
Do, where, like you said, you know, you need to
be present, but you've got three things going on.
Speaker 2 (39:18):
You've got to get them out the door.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
And someone comes by and they're standing at your door
with that face on their.
Speaker 3 (39:23):
That look on their face like you're like what now.
Speaker 2 (39:26):
You're like, what now? I don't have time? Oh my god,
I want to do this right now. But then you.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
Smile and you're like, oh, come on in, let's talk, and.
Speaker 3 (39:35):
Then you can it's the perfect time.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
Well, it's funny.
Speaker 1 (39:38):
My immediate reaction is, but I have I have sofa
and chairs in my office, and I'm like, okay, is
this a desk separation conversation? Or do I need to
be extremely present and like sit in a chair next
to them. Yeah, conversation. Yeah, God, we're making We're really
making it sound harder.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
But but look at the end of the.
Speaker 1 (40:01):
Day, no matter what what we're you're doing as a leader.
And like I said, we've we've We've talked to a
bunch of different leaders. I mean, you know, we have
an episode coming out with the CEO of the Maps,
Rick Welts, and we were talking yesterday.
Speaker 2 (40:15):
They're like, oh wow, that's same stuff. You know. He
was funny.
Speaker 1 (40:19):
He talked about being in the NBA and you know,
as a young guy sitting there making a hundred phone
calls trying to sell people into the NBA. And if
you told someone that today, you're like, okay, like that
ever happened. But we've all done it, and I think
I think it's as a leader, it's important to remember that.
So what's on the horizon for the barbershop?
Speaker 3 (40:39):
You know, we are still looking to grow. We're adding clients.
The thing that's really great is, you know we're really
local regional focus now. We actually we do have clients
coast to coast, which is gradually very exciting. You know,
so love that. Want to keep building like to our
strengths and the verticals that we're really good at. You know,
beside the services, do a lot of government work obviously,
(41:02):
you know, automotives for us, we do a lot of airports.
I just got back from an airport conference. You know,
we have some really interesting fun verticals, do a lot
of tourism stuff that we work with. So want to
keep building that. Like I said, I really have the
great team and the foundation now where we can have
that growth and that that launching pad for the next
phase of growth. But I am back looking at acquisitions
(41:23):
and so yeah, and so I'm revisiting a deal that
I got really close with five years ago. It came back,
stayed in touch with the owner and you know, so
hopefully we can we can get something done. But that
would just you know, expand our footprint, you know even more.
And it's a great business, very complimentary to what we do,
and would just add to you know, what we're able
to how we're able to like service our clients.
Speaker 1 (41:45):
So, okay, band is waving at me, but I have
to ask, So you're looking at an acquisition. Yeah, you know,
you've you've acquired now would be round two. Do you
sit in your head sometimes as you're thinking about, Okay,
how would I put this together there and kind of
moving the puzzle pieces around and all of that, or
do you have to stop yourself because you talked about
(42:06):
being present?
Speaker 2 (42:07):
Yeah, and how do you juggle it too?
Speaker 3 (42:09):
I feel like the timing has to be right right,
So now I really feel like the timing is right
and for a deal too. For all of us that
have done deals and had things happen, you know, it's
one of the things I learned early in my careers.
You don't chase you chase a deal. Sometimes you have
to let them go for it to come back. And
you know, I had the first sit down with the
owner and where we really sat down and talked about, Okay,
(42:29):
are we going to do this? And I was like, well,
if I'm really honest, five years ago, I would have
been over my head and I wasn't ready for this.
And he goes, if I'm really honest five years ago,
I wasn't ready to let go of Oh that's great,
and so it just sort of like that we came
to the table. Honest, it just sort of cleared the
deck and opened up that that conversation and having a
real conversation with somebody instead of trying to be the
(42:50):
idea of what he thought that he would he would
want me to be to take over his business. And
he's like, that's why this feels right.
Speaker 1 (42:59):
It's funny how simple honesty can get you to a
result so much quicker than all the other stuff. Weird
how that happens, right, Yeah, Amy, this was a lot
of fun. We have to wrap up with something we
do with all of our guests, little question roulette. I
don't even know what's in these envelopes, but we did
(43:20):
some stooping and found.
Speaker 2 (43:21):
Out that you were a huge Twizzlers fan, So this
is pretty easy.
Speaker 1 (43:26):
Each one of these envelopes has a Twizzler prize for
you attached to it, but you.
Speaker 2 (43:31):
Have to choose one.
Speaker 1 (43:32):
And in the envelope is a question that I need
you to pull out, read and answer for us.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
Okay, choose away, all right, all right, it's not.
Speaker 1 (43:41):
Too hard, I hope not.
Speaker 3 (43:44):
Oh oh, okay, salt vinegar chips or Twizzlers. You can
only bring one to a client pitch. Which are you
walking away with? And why? I mean the salt vinegar
chips are savory, but I feel like that's a little
messier with the client pitch, so I'd go with the
Twizzlers just because it's less mess and who doesn't love
(44:05):
a waxy you know, a waxy fruity candy in a meeting.
Speaker 1 (44:10):
Well, I have to ask, okay, because this is important.
You we have the strawberry Twizzlers. Do you like the
black licorice not a black lickorsee.
Speaker 2 (44:19):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (44:20):
Okay, that's another conversation for another episode. But I'm a
huge Twizzler fan. Amy Hall from the barbershop, thank you
for joining us.
Speaker 3 (44:28):
Thank you,
This is CEOs You Should Know, with Dallas market president
of iHeartMedia Chris Long. Welcome everybody to an episode of
CEOs you Should Know. I'm Chris Long, Dallas market president
for iHeartMedia, and I am here with my friend Amy
Hall from the barbershop.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
How you doing good to have you here. We're excited.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
We've had some pre conversation, got some things out of
the way that'll make this hopefully an interesting conversation for everybody.
But as we do we start every podcast, we now
have a ranker. I guess going, don't we Amanda with
two questions that we ask all of our guests. I
think it makes sense. With iHeart being the largest audio
(00:45):
platform in the country with eight hundred and sixty radio
station podcast streaming anything and everything audio.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
I would be remiss if I didn't ask.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
You what was your first concert and what podcasts are
you listening to right now?
Speaker 3 (00:59):
Okay? First concert was New Kids on the Block?
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Okay, so I didn't tell you what you were up against.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
We recently had Boston jump into the first. Okay, that's over.
Pink Floyd.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Oh, Pink Floyd's a good one.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
And we had Johnny Cash too.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Mind stinks because it was meant at work. Total gen
X eighties kid and the number one spot you may
be competing for it. I think we'll have to have
a vote. Number one right now is Whitney Houston.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
Oh that's that's solid. That's solid, I know, right. Yeah,
new Kids on the Block. Though I was early adopter
on the boy band Bandwagon. This was in Nashville. I
grew up in basically a suburb of Nashville in Nashville,
So saw it at I think what's now bridgetowne Arena.
I don't remember what it was then, but yeah, but
it was a big deal.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Who is your new kid?
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Well?
Speaker 3 (01:52):
I was Joey whenever I was younger, but then as
I matured, Yeah, I liked Jordan.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Okay, quick, quite serious question. Would you go see them now?
Like I f be an opportunity.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
I actually did. I think they toured about like a
year or two ago. They were on that mixtape tour
and it was so much fun. It was there was
Salton Pepa, was there, Debbie Gibson, I mean it was
peak you know, kind of like late eighties.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Actually night, Yeah you mean Debbie, that'd be great. Okay.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
So podcast podcasts I do not listen to podcasts regularly.
I do sporadically listen. I have clients that have some podcasts,
so I listened to some of theirs, particularly you know
when client just launched one called the Kingdom Method. You know,
different business development podcast, but I don't listen to them
(02:43):
because I read a lot. So I'm typically reading two
or three books. I'll do like one on audio and
then I'll physically read. But you know, I'm rotating between
two or three books, and I read a lot of
professional development books, so I'm reading them instead of doing podcasts,
and I'll listen and I'll listen to podcast clips. So sure,
so you know, like I'm a big Brene Brown fan,
so but I won't listen to the whole podcast, but
(03:05):
I will listen to like the little shorts and the clips.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
It's kind of divided because a few of our guests
big readers kind of similar answer the content very similar.
I have yet to be yet to hear true crime
or their favorite sports podcast tend to be business and
industry related.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
I think that might tell us something.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
About focused drive and what needs to be done to
get to the levels that CEOs are at. But interesting, well,
hopefully you'll enjoy this podcast and then make this a
regular in rotation. Okay, So I think it's always fun
to figure out where our leaders started.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Little background.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
So you went to Coastal Carolina to college, Yes, talk
about that a little bit.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
I grew up in a well, it's not a small
town anymore. It's basically a suburb of Ashville now, but
a small town in middle Tennessee. Great town, very blue
collar town, a lot of manufacturing, a lot of people
got great jobs going out of you know, high school.
You didn't have to be on that college path. I
knew that was for me, and I just wanted out
of my small town. Not in common, wanted out of
(04:16):
my small town. So found a way. You know. This
was my parents, which is great now. They were like,
you're not getting student loans. We have saved X amount
of money for college, so we have to find something
that fits here. Applied for a bunch of scholarships. I
got a grant to go as a marine science major
because you could go for in state tuition. So I
ended up at Coastal Carolina marine science major. That was
(04:38):
not the path for me.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
A year and a half in, I don't think marine
science tracks straight to marketing and everything.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
No, no, okay, no it doesn't. So I did that
a year and a half realized, yeah, that's not for me.
But what am I going to do? And I recently
went back intod the commencement speech and I and I
do some mentorship with the university and I got back
involved in twenty nine ten and it's great. And the
reason I went back and did that was because that's
(05:04):
when I found my first mentor. Because I went and
I asked for help and I didn't know what I
was going to do. I ended up being an art major.
I was involved in art and artistic and did a
lot of art shows, apprentised with artists. When of ours
in high school, every said you should go to art school.
I was eighteen and I was like, no, I'm going
to be a marine science major. You know, like, yeah,
that makes that makes sense. So yeah. So I found
(05:28):
my first mentor in the art department who really helped
me and was like, look, we're going to figure this out.
Here's your new course schedule, show up to these classes tomorrow.
We'll get this worked out. And somebody that I've stayed
in touch with still to this day, I was.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
Going to ask. Yeah, Yeah, It's funny when you think
about those people, is there a moment with that person
where you felt like, oh, this is starting to make sense?
Because as we've done these episodes, almost you know, every
one of them has had that moment. Was there a
(06:01):
moment for you where you're like, Okay, now I'm on
the right path. This makes sense.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
I mean, I you know, you think I was thinking
all this, How do I tell my parents? This might
I have to go home? What does this mean? Am
I going to lose my scholarship? Am I going to
be all these things that I didn't know how to navigate?
Speaker 1 (06:15):
It?
Speaker 3 (06:16):
Nineteen? Yeah, like nineteen years old. And you know this
person that didn't have to help me, that had no
skin in the game, that just sat down and listened
to me, watching me cry.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
How did you find this week?
Speaker 3 (06:27):
I walked in. I walked in the art department, and
I asked if I and I asked if the dean
could see me, and I was able to just walk
in and sit down. I mean, it was just a
really small school at that time. It's really it's grown,
it's gotten big. You know, they they're oh, for sure
there now, but it was really small, and that was
one thing that was really great. And I mean and
he just sat down and was like listen to me
and was like, yeah, he should be an art major
(06:49):
and yeah, and we'll we'll do this and yeah. So
I mean it was like instantly and.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Then you found out it was like a delivery driver
who was yeahing who just happened to be in the office.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
Yeah, and so it was it was incredible and you know,
you help me get my first internship and you know,
just a person that helped me learn which my children,
you know, I raised them to know to advocate for themselves,
but I'm not of that generation where I think I
was really like given the tools to know how to
advocate for myself and to know how that it was
okay to ask for help. It was kind of like
(07:19):
you work hard, you push through, you figure it out.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Oh absolutely, you just that it was a really simple roadmap.
It was a B and C and like you said,
you work hard, you show up and you just do it.
Yeah and then see where you end up. So okay,
so you go through. So you got a fine arts degree.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
Yeah, I got a fine arts degree.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Okay, so you walk off stage where did you go?
Speaker 3 (07:40):
I got a job at an agency, and big agency
in the art department. Entry level job, but still like
I'm walking out of school with a job. I think
I'm making more money than I could ever spend, because
you know, it's like my first real job and it's awesome.
And nine months later I moved to North Miami for
this job and you know, no real network, no work good,
(08:03):
but you know, I'm young and just out of college
and it's fine. And then nine to eleven happened, okay,
and nine months after I got out of school and
I got laid off with fifteen hundred other people across
the company. They had offices in New York, in LA
and I didn't know that that could happen. So after
the high high and the and I graduated, I got
(08:25):
a path. I got a job because as an art major,
my parents were like, what are you going to do?
How are you going to make money? Are you going
to teach? I'm like no, so yeah, So I went
straight into agency and then straight into getting laid off
nine months later, and that was, yeah, that was.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Pretty much how you mapped it out. Yeah, parents, So I.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
Didn't know that could happen. I'm like, you do everything,
you check all the boxes, you do all the right things,
and then you know, something out of the flu that
you can't control can happen that's not your fault and
not performance based. And yeah, so that sort of set
me on the marketing path.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
So okay, so that leads to.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
You know, you talk about how of a generation you know,
you just figured out Yeah, you have no choice, you know.
I think today it's a little bit different, but back
then it was like no one was going to come
and save you, and you're going to have to figure
it out.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
So marketing, which is now the path, how did that happen?
Speaker 1 (09:20):
Uh?
Speaker 3 (09:21):
I was looking for jobs. I was applying for jobs,
and I had a girlfriend that was doing experiential work
for R. J. Reynolds at that time, and the experiential
world in the early two thousands was vastly different than
it is now. It was a small community of people
that did it, of agencies that did it. It was really specialized.
So she was doing work for She had gotten a
(09:42):
job doing regional work for R. J. Reynolds. They're the
cigarette company. So and she was working on the Seven
Pleasures of the Exotic Launch for camel cigarettes. Never been
a smoker, but it's it's random and she needed help.
She needed somebody that would show up, somebody that she
could count on. And I needed a job, and I
didn't know.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
It was like a great match.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Yeah, and so showed up started doing that. Turned out
that I was really really good at the experiential part.
I'm a really good logistics person, operations person. Behind the scenes,
there was a lot of planning. They were doing these
crazy parties with tents and camels and cigarette girls and
it was really fun and you know, doing all of
these things as a young person, and turns out that
(10:21):
world's really small, which led me to getting recruited by
AUDI and North America to work on their automotive marketing team,
which is how then I went into automotive marketing.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
So from art to cigarettes to automotive Yeah, okay, yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
So that's well, so that was the foundation.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
And what's foundation.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
What's interesting is you think about and we'll get to
it in a minute.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
When you acquired barbershop, you have the art side, the
creative side, figured out the experiential side, and the organizational
side and what it takes something to get from A
to Z and completed and now auto I would imagine
that was probably more of a bigger corporate feel type situation.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
It was a big corporate feel I mean it was amazing.
I got to travel the country. I was on a
thirty person team. I learned a lot, got to meet
a lot of people. And then that is where I
met my kid's dad, and he was in the automotive
business and that's actually what brought us to Texas. So
(11:24):
it was like, hey, let's start some automotive dealerships and
you know, work together and we have drivers select. Yeah,
so that's how that happened. You know, we met whenever
I was in DC. He was from d C. I
was traveling around. But it could not have been a
better experience. So me coming from a small town, I
went to a relatively small school. Yes, I moved to Miami,
(11:45):
but I got to travel the country. And if anybody
when they're young and before they're married, before they have kids,
gets the opportunity for a job where you get to travel,
you know where it's being paid for, the people that
you meet, the connections that you make. I'm still friends
with a lot of people that I worked with with
at that time. You know, and those are still relationships
that I keep. Then they've been sort of foundational, you know,
(12:08):
throughout my life.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
So yeah, it is funny now that my kids are older.
My daughter Alex was going on a business trip and
she was calling and asking some questions about how to
set up and figuring out the time because you have
to be different dinners and all the things just know
inherently after.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
You do it.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
And she's like, wow, Dad, that was super helpful, and
I laugh. I'm like, what do you think I been
doing the last thirty years? You know, I like just
disappear for the day and then come back and I'm Dad.
So it is funny when you because you're right, it
teaches you. There's so many life things you just learn,
you know, and making that network, and you know, as
a twenty something you don't realize like the number of
(12:45):
people that you and I both know that you may
be met on a trip or whatever, that they come
back around at some.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Point in your career and in your life.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
And so it is an important thing I think as
you mentor, and it sounds like you do like saying
this is an important foundationational time in your career for.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
Sure, and even the younger people that work in my office,
you know, the twenty somethings. Now, I think that, you know,
the COVID year's the COVID gap. But then being remote
for some part of maybe high school or college or
their first career and being isolated, I do think that
they're starving for that connection and when. But also I
(13:22):
don't think that they know how to make those connections
in other And so you know, a lot of what
we work on is, yeah, get involved in groups and
find people with interest or try new things and just
like go and just talk to people. And yeah, it
can be like a little scary at first, but they
don't have those tools that, like he said, we take
for granted because we've done it for like ever.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
Well, on almost every episode it's come up, you know,
the all that we learned just being in an office
and some of the stuff you just learned through osmosis
hearing veterans talk about problem situations, handling negotiations, whatever the
case may be. And you're right, like it's almost like
it's the quite essential. They don't know what they don't know,
(14:02):
and so the feeling of like, well, why would I
want to be in an office all the time, and
we're probably in my brain's going, why wouldn't you want
to be in the office all the time. Yeah, it's
annoying getting up, getting dressed and driving somewhere, but the
learning is invaluable to what it'll mean to you down
the road. So okay, so tell me about driver's select
that period of time.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
Moved to a new city, moved to a new seat,
moved to Dallas. Dallas is wonderful. We picked Dallas because
it fit all the demographics growing again. You know, we're
we're talking about about, you know, two thousand and four
when we moved here, before the eight o nine crash.
I mean, a great time to be here, A great time.
I mean it's still a great time to be here
and do business. I mean I can't imagine doing business
(14:42):
and living anywhere else because it's so business friendly and
welcoming and opening and coming from DC, which is a
much more closed business community that's a little harder to
crack everybody that comes here. So we came here, I
mean welcomed with open arms, worked incredibly hard, I mean
just crazy eight hour weeks. And Steve, my now ex,
(15:05):
he said something to me when we were starting this,
this is about to be the hardest thing that you'll
ever do, but the best thing that you'll ever do.
And both of those things were true. And I mean,
we just we hit the ground running. We opened up
a lot of dealerships. We grew really quickly. We built
an incredible brand, you know, and we were you know,
sort of the first to do some of the things
that you know, I see now and I see other
(15:26):
advertisers doing, at least in this market. I'm not saying we,
you know, invented things, but you know, we came We
didn't do offers. We came into the market with a jingle.
You know. We believed, we believed in heavy branding, you know,
and I mean we just high level branded, you know.
We had a look, you know, all the dealerships. Our
colors were really bright and intentional and the energy that
(15:46):
we brought and we tried.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
To make it fun.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
Yeah, and we tried to make it fun. We thought
that car buying should not be intimidating, and car buying
should be a little bit fun. And yeah, it's a
long process, and how do we make that easier? And
how do we educate people too? Right and like and
give some financial literacy tools because people get into things
(16:08):
that they don't under understand and make big financial decisions
really quickly and you know, not really intentionally. And then
you know, and you could see all these things when
people came in, like having somebody co sign on their
car that they didn't want them to co sign, or
negative equity and all of these things. And so it
was really really a fun time and we did amazing things,
and we even i mean we did Survival eight on
(16:29):
nine but completely changed the business model, really adapted quickly
to turning into like an online model. But you know,
all of that is also incredibly stressful when you grow
like that, you know, and at the peak we had,
you know, we had six dealerships.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
And it sounds like you're probably beginning to raise a family.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
Yep, yep, and had kids and and and you know,
and all the stress. And I mean, i'd say, now,
I mean we are great. We are great co parents
who are great business collaborators. We still, you know, we
still collaborate a lot, like we're still I think as
outing board for each other. And I think that that's
really great and that's really beautiful. And I learned so
so much, yeah, so much from that relationship and from
(17:08):
him in doing business that way. That really helped me
set me up for success in the future. But the
thing that's really hard, you know, and that people don't
talk about, is it's really hard to work with your spouse.
It's really hard to have young children. Marriage is hard
under the best circumstances, you know. So when we put
all those stresses on each other, I'm glad that on
the other side of it that we do have this
(17:28):
really beautiful close relationship still. But that's great. But that
one part didn't work, but everything else did.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Yeah. Yeah, It's funny because people, you know, when you say, oh,
I started, you know, a company, whatever the company is, Oh,
that must be amazing, Well it is, yeah, and I
did something similar for a period of time. The lessons
are you can't put a price tag on them because
they're so much different than working for a big corporation
(17:56):
where you have a very defined lane and all of that.
Whereas as you know, you know, doing something like that,
you're jumping from color scheme two offers to financing.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
I mean, you're doing it all and trying to juggle that.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Being a mother and raising kids and being present and
all of the other things that family requires is a
is a pretty taxing thing. But I would imagine that
I could tell by the way you look at it.
You look look back on that with a lot of
pride because it's what got you to where you are today.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
Yeah, and it was, and I wouldn't trade that, you know,
that experience for the world. And I think, you know,
hindsight en as you mature, you know, we did a
really bad job of turning it off. And I think
a lot of people, you know, especially when you're really driven,
and you know, we were too really type A really
driven people, really highly motivated, which is which are wonderful things,
but you do have a hard time setting boundaries and
(18:50):
turning it off. And you know, and I've worked on
that and I have more of those tools now. But
you know, whenever you just when you hit the ground
and you have something that takes off and you just
have to go with it and ride that wave. And
it's so fun. But there are you know, there are
there are sacrifices that come with that.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
So interesting.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
So I'll take a step back in timeline your career
for you just real quick. So two major cataclysmic things
in the economy slash the world, the nine to eleven
and the crash of eighth nine, starting your career, starting
a company, starting a family. We make it through all
(19:32):
of those things, and then in twenty sixteen you decide,
you know what, I'm going to buy an agent. So
it's interesting because a lot of our founders ascended through
companies or not founders. CEOs ascended through companies, some a
few were founders. You're the first who made an acquisition.
(19:53):
So tell me about that.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
Starting from scratch is really hard.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Sure it is.
Speaker 3 (19:57):
It's super hard. So obviously i'd been on brand side
with Audi. I'd been on you know, I call it
client side, which I was selected even though it was
brand's side, but client side, so I did, do you know,
I stant with with CBS and went to work there.
I wanted to learn vendor side while I was trying
of figuring out Oh of course, yes, I'm going to
(20:18):
see you, Brian. I'm going to see your Duora.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
Shot on Brian Party, who hired me in Kansas City
in nineteen ninety three.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
He's great at hiring people. He's great. Yeah, he fixed
great talent.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
Okay, Brian, we'll get you in anyway.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
So yeah, So went to work at CBS, trying to
figure out what I wanted to do. But I really
enjoyed learning the media side. You know, media had been
a you know, branding and media and buying media had
been a big part of what I'd done. I knew
the experiential side. CBS at that time was doing a
lot of experiential, you know, and with the media and
with the brand partnerships and the way they built stuff out,
(20:56):
and I was just kind of trying to figure it out.
And I wasn't looking to buy an agency. But Liz Barber,
who I bought the agency from, at least in this market,
she has an amazing reputation, an amazing legacy, and we
have a lot of similarity in our story. She worked
at CBS and she sort of founded the experiential there
(21:18):
and she went through kind of starting her life over
after a divorce and went to agency SAE, and we
just had these these weird similarities. And I'd known her
as an acqueen, as like a professional acquaintance, but she
was sort of this iconic, you know, figure in my
mind at that time. And I get a call and
somebody's like, there's an agency for sale, and I think
(21:40):
that you want to look at it, and I'm like,
what are you talking now? No, No, I'm like gift kids,
I need, I need insurance, I need yeah, I need
a paycheck. Like I'm not I don't have a pile
of money over here, Like I'm not looking for an agency.
I'm not good bye. And they're like no, no, no,
Like I think that you should call the broker and
like and look at it, and they're like, can't tell
you what it is. And so I called the broker
signed NDA and then I was like absolutely, And so
(22:04):
Liz and I with no intention of buying an agency,
my small brief period of you know, being at an agency,
Liz and I sat down and from that first conversation
we closed six weeks later. Like, I mean, that was
just it, Like it was yeah, I mean it was
a little at first sight.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
Okay, So you.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
Woke up one morning, yeah, not a not an owner
of a business, and by the end of the day,
after meeting and signing the NBA, you're like, oh, I'm
all in.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
Yeah, I was all in.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
That's great. What was it?
Speaker 1 (22:36):
What was the trigger you think? I mean, what was
the Yeah, this is it.
Speaker 3 (22:39):
Liz's philosophy and my philosophy, right, and how we approach business,
how we take care of clients, you know. I mean
I was, you know, even though clients side drivers, select,
but what I was doing for clients is at CBS,
and I love I love growth. I love helping businesses grow.
I love doing business the right way, which is oftentimes
the hard way, you know. But what Liz had was
(23:02):
really special, and whenever we talked, I saw what she
was trying to do. And she had spent fourteen years
building this agency, and a lot of other people wanted
to acquire her, you know, just strip the assets, strip
the clients, and She's like, I put my blood, sweat
and tears in this for fourteen years, and I want
this to live on. And I think I'm the first
person that like got that and wanted to honor what
(23:24):
she had built and just keep growing it and keep
moving it forward. And it just seemed like the right
thing to do, like, not even a question.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
It's interesting talking you know, she's a founder, right, yeah,
she built it. And we've spoken to a few founders
in our episodes, and I think it was doctor Harrison
at Mint Dentistry talks about you know, agonizing over all
of these details because he started it like out of
dental school, this is this is my thing. And I
(23:57):
think for those if you've never done it and been
on the outside, someone might be, well, you got this
valuable asset, just sell it and move off and run
off into the sun, you know, sunset.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
It's not that easy.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
Yeah, it's like a baby. It's like it's a child.
It's a baby that you've that you've nurtured and absolutely.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
So okay, you decided to dive in to ownership. What
was the first day?
Speaker 3 (24:19):
Like, the first day was like, oh my god, they're
gonna find out that I'm like a complete fraud and
I have no idea what I'm doing.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
Imposter syndrome.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
Yeah, like what is she doing here? What does she
do it? We're all terrified. We all better start looking
for jobs. But yeah, it was a little uh yeah,
I walked in and I was like, okay, wow, okay,
you know, like now what Luckily you know, Liz helped
with the transition and meeting clients and it's so relationship driven.
I mean that was really important upfront. So I mean
it was getting you know, the first I'd say that
(24:50):
probably the first two or three months was really sitting
down with the clients, learning the clients, making them feel
comfortable that hey, this is you know, if you're feeling it,
if you're feeling the transition, then we're doing something wrong
that you shouldn't feel this from a business perspective, and
getting their comfort level with me, and then I was
going to think about their business in the same way
that Liz was. And so we just handled that transition
(25:10):
very carefully.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
So it has been said that you are an improver
by nature.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
I don't know where I got that. It could be
the notes that I'm looking at, but I think it's interesting.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Because here you are, you're the new leader. You know,
you're walking on you know you weren't this is this
is interesting. You weren't elevated, promoted, you purchased from the founder,
and you go through the external transition of comfort and
all that. And I would imagine that your background gave
(25:44):
them comfort. You know, you have a lot of the
disciplines covered and interesting and varied experiences. Talk about the internal,
you know, because as a CEO and as a leader,
you know there are situations that can be difficult, and
we know change is no ver easy. How did you
manage that? Just side question, how long did Liz hang around?
(26:05):
Because at some point she's got to step away.
Speaker 3 (26:07):
Yeah we did. We did a year consulting agreement. But really,
let's see, we closed in May and then by the holidays.
I mean it was like kind of call me if
you need me. I'm going on vacation, you know. But
you know, she was still there, you know, if I
had questions or if I got stuck, which was which
was really great. I am a believer in taking a minute,
(26:30):
whether you're switching a role or a job or looking
at a company, and sitting and looking at what you
have before you make too many changes, because because change
is uncomfortable. And even though I had ideas going in
and things that I wanted to do, but getting to
know your people, because I think people in her new
roles with so much enthusiasm that they're just like, well,
I have all these ideas and I'm going to make
(26:51):
it better and stuff's not always broken.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
Correct, that's a great point, And I think.
Speaker 3 (26:57):
That they get too over enthusiastic of this is the
luence that I want to make instead of sort of
learning what's there, really learning what's working and then where
am I going to have the most impact Because people
can only absorb so much change at once to an
uncomfortable point. And I'm really comfortable with driving change, but
I've learned that the way that people receive that change,
(27:20):
it can be very very uncomfortable and counter productive. Right,
And there are times that you need to push it,
and there are times when you need to pull back,
and there's times that you need to aide what are
really the important things that you should change and what's
maybe okay, this is important to me, but this is
not really going to have the biggest impact. And you know,
when I'm looking at like the greater, at the greater organization,
and so it's like learning to let go of some stuff. So,
(27:43):
you know, we made a lot of changes, but I did.
I sat with the team that she had. I mean,
I brought some additional people in. Some people ended up
you know, great people, great people in the business, but
ended up not being a fit.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
And that's okay, yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
And.
Speaker 3 (28:01):
You know, I mean it ends up working out. And
then you know, the things that I wanted to do
to improve and set the groundwork, and you know, just
investing in some technology and investing in some new resources
and giving people some new tools and just you know,
creating that environment. We ended up moving our office, which
just because our lease was up and the building wasn't
(28:22):
great to negotiate with, But that ended up being something
that I hadn't intended to change up front. But it
does create a new energy and a new opportunity and
it kind of shifts the dynamic of you know, some
of the things that people were entrenched in.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
So you know, it's it's interesting because, right you come
into a situation as a new leader at any level,
you know, you're responsible for whatever it is you've been
tasked with, and you have all these ideas and things
you want to do. So it becomes very easy to
be the one doing all the talking versus listening, and
you can figure things out a lot better, I think
(28:58):
in the beginning by listening, and then you chart the
course on where you need to go because you know,
you see it all the time, like in sports and
things like that, fire the coach, do this, do that.
You're like, okay, then what yeah, yeah, okay, great, so
we've made we've done something, but what is the outcome
we're looking for? So at the time, was that twenty
sixteen transformation going on to media or digital digital audios
(29:23):
becoming a thing and all of that.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
How did you manage that? With moving offices.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
I'm the new leader of this organization probably starting to
grow some what was how did you lead through that?
Speaker 3 (29:37):
I mean, I like to be an early adopter. And
the beautiful thing about being on the agency side, and
what I really love about that, regardless of being tied
to a brand or a product, and this is, you know,
I share this with clients and anybody that comes to
work with me, is that on agency side, I think
that we it's our job to know everything that's available
and everything that's out there. And the great thing is
we can really listen to our clients and it's sort
(29:59):
of like, you know, like you have a shelf with
every possibility like lined up, and you can say, okay,
like here's here's your budget, here's here's your goals that
you're trying to accomplish. I think for you it's this, this,
and this, where for somebody else it's maybe these three
other things. You know, I'm a big proponent of pigging
your tactics and doing them well and then layering on
the next thing and having fully integrated marketing plans and
(30:21):
that there's no magic bullet and all these conversations that
we have all the time with our clients. But that
was an area that I saw and just because of
some of the pivots, we had to make it to
ever select what I saw happening in the industry. We
started adopting digital early, and the agency had a really
great reputation for creative and also for media buying, and
(30:43):
at the time that I took over, digital budgets were
still separate at that time, so you had your traditional
budget and you had your digital budget. But it was
the start of like, hey, this is going to blend together,
and this is not going to be two separate things.
This is going to be like one big thing. So
we started I mean, i'd say probably in the first
few months that I saw that as an opportunity of where, hey,
(31:05):
if we don't start learning and if we don't start
incorporating this, like we're really going to miss the boat here.
And that's great. We have a great reputation for creative
and media buying, but this is sort of going in
this different direction, and I think that this is a
big value add that we can have for our existing
clients and that will help us attract new clients.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
Was that given?
Speaker 1 (31:22):
Is that was at the same time you took over
and all that was that was that challenging.
Speaker 3 (31:27):
I think people were excited. I think that is one
thing that everybody got excited about, was to bring something
new in because I think when you kind of have
your formula of what's working for you and why clients
come to you, and that they're coming to you for
specific things, you know, I never want to be like
a one trick pony, you know, and most people and
(31:49):
you know, one of the things that's important is that
my whole team stays curious and curious about clients, curious
about what we can do for them, curious about what's
happen in the world. Because I think if we keep
that curiosity, then we can keep growing and we can
keep learning. And so I think that I'm lucky enough
to have people on the team that were curious enough
(32:10):
of like, hey, I do want to learn more about
this and how we can utilize this, and yeah, let's
try some things and you know, hopefully it works, and
if it doesn't, we can you know, we can pivot
and you know, try something else.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
It's interesting you say that because I think without mentioning
names in our in the media industry, and I'm sure,
I'm sure in all, but there's a sometimes can become
a feeling with more legacy companies, Oh, we already know
it all. We don't need to know something new, Versus
(32:43):
I look at the partners and the people that you know,
we probably mutually know some of them. They're like, I'm
doing my clients at a service. If I don't find
out what the new thing is, it doesn't mean I'm
gonna do it, but I better make sure I understand
it and consider it and see how that could fit.
So I mean, you're you're ten years now.
Speaker 3 (33:02):
Yeah, it's gonna be ten years in May.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
So let's let's let's do a little now and then
what was the thing? What was the one thing that
kept you up then kept you up at night thinking
about then as a leader, and what keeps you up now?
Speaker 2 (33:18):
And is it or and is it the same thing?
Speaker 3 (33:21):
You know, it's a little bit different. Whenever I took
over the agency, we had one client that was, you know,
heavily weighted a disproportionate percentage of our business, which was
a red flag whenever I sure took over and this
is a relationship business and it was a transition, and
so it was, well, what if this client leaves? You know,
what what happens? Yeah, what happens in Can I get
(33:44):
you know, can I get enough new business in? Can
I you know, can we retain the business? You know?
And I do talk a lot about this with with
peers and other agency owners, is that it is such
a relationship business, and it is a client retention business,
and it gets harder and harder as there are more
more options out there, and as there's pressure, and it's
just a more fragmented landscape and there's so many more
(34:05):
options out there, and like I said, and I think
people are just they're they're looking for that that quick fix,
and you know, and I come at it from more consultative.
So it was, what happens if this client leaves, am
I going to be able to keep everybody? And that
client got acquired in twenty nineteen and did leave. They
(34:25):
ended up coming back, They ended up coming out at happened,
but they got acquired. The company that acquired them had
an internal marketing team, so I had to you know,
but I had some years we had some more clients,
but it was still like a big, a big hit,
And so you know, that was a lesson learned to
you know, to keep diversifying, to keep growing, to keep
building your network too, you know, and COVID sort of
(34:48):
changed things too. But if that hadn't happened in twenty nineteen,
I wouldn't be as lean and as nimble, and I
couldn't have absorbed the changes and the changes we had
to make to the business during COVID and the of it.
And we had you know, we did a lot of
automotive prior to COVID, and then that that sort of
went away, and you know, we had some home service
clients and that vertical of our business, you know, really
(35:10):
exploded and we do a lot in the home services
and that was great, and you know, my peers, it's
it's really funny that people don't realize how sophisticated these
home service businesses are, and with private equity, and we
deal with a lot of private equity firms. But I
remember at the time when we were working in home services,
and you know, sort of the bougie people in the
agency world were like, well, you know, I have the
sexy clients. I have hotels and restaurants and and I
(35:33):
have and yeah, and you're doing yeah, and you're working
with plumbers and you're working with yeah. And then like
post COVID, I'm like, who has the sexy clients now?
Speaker 2 (35:41):
You know, like the ones that spend money and pay bills. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:44):
So you know, so it's just interesting to not get
caught up on ego and not get caught up on
flash and and you know. So, so what keeps me
up now is you know, lessons, lessons that I've learned
and how to move the business forward in the right way.
Because I was so focused on growth and growth quickly
(36:07):
and how can we grow as quick as we can?
I pulled back. I'm like, no, I want to grow smart.
I had looked at some some additional acquisitions which I'm
now revisiting, but it was really like, you need to
get your house in order. You need to focus on
your team. Because I think focusing on the growth and
the acquisition, whether the growth is organic or you know,
through supplementing the business or having strategic partnerships, I think
(36:28):
that that can be a distractor. Because it's fun, right,
It's like it's playtime, It's fun correct. And I think
that if I was really honest with myself for a
period of time whenever I was looking at that and
the team wasn't where it needed to be, I didn't
have the tools in place, I didn't have the right processes,
we weren't doing project management the right way. That instead
of putting your head down and like focusing on fixing
(36:50):
some of that that as a leader, you can distract
yourself with the fun stuff.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
A hundred for that.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
It's very it's it's it's a very seductive trap. Yeah,
because you could say, oh, this has to get done,
and then you really look at it and the real
hands dirty stuff can grow from you know, little teeny cracks,
they could start to turn into big valleys and then
you have a problems as a as a leader. You know,
(37:18):
I talk about this some you know their leaders and
their bosses, And I learned that from our our friend
Brian Party. And you know, as a leader, you have
to be willing to take on the hard stuff. You
have to do all the things that you're asking your
people to do, and then some you know, those are
things I think about a lot. What do you think about? Like,
you know, when you go through a day or if
you critique yourself.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
Driving home at night.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
As a leader, what do you what's kind of your
north star you think about that you want to be
thought of, and you want to make sure that you're
always doing.
Speaker 3 (37:47):
You know, I want to be present. I want to
be present with my people. And that's something that I'm
working on always. And you have your good days and
your bad days, and you know, and when I'm showing
up in the right way and how I'm showing up
and letting them do their job, and that I've hired
(38:09):
them for a reason, and the impact of really having
the right team and having the right support around you
and what that allows you to do as a leader.
And I think that's what sort of pivots you from
being a boss to a leader, because it's really easy
to get sucked back into the work or this isn't
happening perfectly, or this meeting didn't go exactly right, or
(38:30):
that pitch wasn't how I would have done it. Yeah,
you know, and the and the default is to the
the control thing and the and the jump in.
Speaker 2 (38:40):
But it's oh, I'll just do it.
Speaker 3 (38:41):
Yeah yeah, And it's like no, let's let's step back
Let's use that as development. Let's approach it with some patience,
Let's approach it with some empathy. Let's, you know, just
more of those those those soft skills that like I
wasn't necessarily raised with, but that I have to work
on more and more.
Speaker 2 (38:58):
And what's I have.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
I had a leader I worked with one time, and
you know, he mentioned soft skills and kind of you know,
kicked them to the side, and look, that can't be
one hundred percent of your game.
Speaker 2 (39:11):
Yeah, but I would imagine you have days like I.
Speaker 1 (39:14):
Do, where, like you said, you know, you need to
be present, but you've got three things going on.
Speaker 2 (39:18):
You've got to get them out the door.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
And someone comes by and they're standing at your door
with that face on their.
Speaker 3 (39:23):
That look on their face like you're like what now.
Speaker 2 (39:26):
You're like, what now? I don't have time? Oh my god,
I want to do this right now. But then you.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
Smile and you're like, oh, come on in, let's talk, and.
Speaker 3 (39:35):
Then you can it's the perfect time.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
Well, it's funny.
Speaker 1 (39:38):
My immediate reaction is, but I have I have sofa
and chairs in my office, and I'm like, okay, is
this a desk separation conversation? Or do I need to
be extremely present and like sit in a chair next
to them. Yeah, conversation. Yeah, God, we're making We're really
making it sound harder.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
But but look at the end of the.
Speaker 1 (40:01):
Day, no matter what what we're you're doing as a leader.
And like I said, we've we've We've talked to a
bunch of different leaders. I mean, you know, we have
an episode coming out with the CEO of the Maps,
Rick Welts, and we were talking yesterday.
Speaker 2 (40:15):
They're like, oh wow, that's same stuff. You know. He
was funny.
Speaker 1 (40:19):
He talked about being in the NBA and you know,
as a young guy sitting there making a hundred phone
calls trying to sell people into the NBA. And if
you told someone that today, you're like, okay, like that
ever happened. But we've all done it, and I think
I think it's as a leader, it's important to remember that.
So what's on the horizon for the barbershop?
Speaker 3 (40:39):
You know, we are still looking to grow. We're adding clients.
The thing that's really great is, you know we're really
local regional focus now. We actually we do have clients
coast to coast, which is gradually very exciting. You know,
so love that. Want to keep building like to our
strengths and the verticals that we're really good at. You know,
beside the services, do a lot of government work obviously,
(41:02):
you know, automotives for us, we do a lot of airports.
I just got back from an airport conference. You know,
we have some really interesting fun verticals, do a lot
of tourism stuff that we work with. So want to
keep building that. Like I said, I really have the
great team and the foundation now where we can have
that growth and that that launching pad for the next
phase of growth. But I am back looking at acquisitions
(41:23):
and so yeah, and so I'm revisiting a deal that
I got really close with five years ago. It came back,
stayed in touch with the owner and you know, so
hopefully we can we can get something done. But that
would just you know, expand our footprint, you know even more.
And it's a great business, very complimentary to what we do,
and would just add to you know, what we're able
to how we're able to like service our clients.
Speaker 1 (41:45):
So, okay, band is waving at me, but I have
to ask, So you're looking at an acquisition. Yeah, you know,
you've you've acquired now would be round two. Do you
sit in your head sometimes as you're thinking about, Okay,
how would I put this together there and kind of
moving the puzzle pieces around and all of that, or
do you have to stop yourself because you talked about
(42:06):
being present?
Speaker 2 (42:07):
Yeah, and how do you juggle it too?
Speaker 3 (42:09):
I feel like the timing has to be right right,
So now I really feel like the timing is right
and for a deal too. For all of us that
have done deals and had things happen, you know, it's
one of the things I learned early in my careers.
You don't chase you chase a deal. Sometimes you have
to let them go for it to come back. And
you know, I had the first sit down with the
owner and where we really sat down and talked about, Okay,
(42:29):
are we going to do this? And I was like, well,
if I'm really honest, five years ago, I would have
been over my head and I wasn't ready for this.
And he goes, if I'm really honest five years ago,
I wasn't ready to let go of Oh that's great,
and so it just sort of like that we came
to the table. Honest, it just sort of cleared the
deck and opened up that that conversation and having a
real conversation with somebody instead of trying to be the
(42:50):
idea of what he thought that he would he would
want me to be to take over his business. And
he's like, that's why this feels right.
Speaker 1 (42:59):
It's funny how simple honesty can get you to a
result so much quicker than all the other stuff. Weird
how that happens, right, Yeah, Amy, this was a lot
of fun. We have to wrap up with something we
do with all of our guests, little question roulette. I
don't even know what's in these envelopes, but we did
(43:20):
some stooping and found.
Speaker 2 (43:21):
Out that you were a huge Twizzlers fan, So this
is pretty easy.
Speaker 1 (43:26):
Each one of these envelopes has a Twizzler prize for
you attached to it, but you.
Speaker 2 (43:31):
Have to choose one.
Speaker 1 (43:32):
And in the envelope is a question that I need
you to pull out, read and answer for us.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
Okay, choose away, all right, all right, it's not.
Speaker 1 (43:41):
Too hard, I hope not.
Speaker 3 (43:44):
Oh oh, okay, salt vinegar chips or Twizzlers. You can
only bring one to a client pitch. Which are you
walking away with? And why? I mean the salt vinegar
chips are savory, but I feel like that's a little
messier with the client pitch, so I'd go with the
Twizzlers just because it's less mess and who doesn't love
(44:05):
a waxy you know, a waxy fruity candy in a meeting.
Speaker 1 (44:10):
Well, I have to ask, okay, because this is important.
You we have the strawberry Twizzlers. Do you like the
black licorice not a black lickorsee.
Speaker 2 (44:19):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (44:20):
Okay, that's another conversation for another episode. But I'm a
huge Twizzler fan. Amy Hall from the barbershop, thank you
for joining us.
Speaker 3 (44:28):
Thank you,
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