May 7, 2026 • 18 mins
Alan Perlowitz & Andrew Luftig Of Chaves Perlowitz Luftig LLP
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Listen
Watch
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to another edition of CEO's Unplugged. My name is
Eric Lemu and uh I've got two great guests here today.
I want to just kind of dive right in before
we do our introductions and talk about, like listen, buying
and selling real estate is one of the biggest financial
decisions most people will really ever make, and behind every
successful deal is a team making sure nothing falls apart,
(00:23):
really before the ink dries.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
And that's where you two guys come in.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
So today we're joined by two experts who live in
that high stakes world every single day. They've seen it all,
from complex commercial deals to every day residential transactions. From
Shaves Perlowitz Lefftig LLP. We're joined by managing Partner Alan
Perlowitz and head of Residential Andrew Luftig. Guys, thank you
so much for joining us today. Our pleasure great to.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Have you here.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
So we're gonna start a little simple like what's one
thing that people think a real estate attorney does all
day and in reality, what actually do you guys do
layman terms here?
Speaker 3 (01:00):
You know, that's that's a great question, and you know
most people think that what you learn in law school
actual the x's and o's of the deal. The contract
of sale, the law, real estate law is what we
spend our time on and that's probably ten percent of
the deal. I find that we're counselors at law, we're
almost psychologists.
Speaker 4 (01:17):
Right.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
People are buying on the residential side, if you think
about it, their biggest asset. So people are so super
hyped on this when they get home from work. This
is their this is their thing, this is what they
want to talk about. So it's so important what how
we make these clients feel as well as obviously doing
this strong legal work. It's about the process, helping people
through the process so they feel a certain way.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
I like how you said the psychiatrist thing. You know,
like you guys are deal makers, you're kind of therapists.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
I'm sure you're firefighters as well.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
You're like turning your head putting something out the next moment, right,
you know you sit at the center of these massive
life moments for people and home purchases, big investments. Do
you ever forget how big as moments are for your clients,
Like that's always got to be in your mind that
you go through this every day, but this is their
first time going through it or you know, they're rookies
(02:08):
at it compared to you guys.
Speaker 4 (02:09):
Well, I guess interesting question, right, because we as attorneys,
we should be objective, right. We want to you know,
have a bespoke service for our clients. We want to
be even keeled. We recognize, you know, it could be
their first purchase or fifth purchase, so we try not
to lose sight of that. But on the flip side,
it's our job in you know, the eye of adversity
or high stakes emotions, to be the kind of the
(02:32):
calming party, right and to be the you know, rational
and give reasonable expectations. So I think we have to
balance both aspects of that.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Yeah, so who gets more stressed? You are the client.
Speaker 4 (02:42):
We should definitely not be more stress and and you know,
there's a whole strategy right with going into a stressful situation, right,
trying to be optimistic, trying to be you know, confident
and give clear, concise information and you know, not let
those emotions take over the train.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Action makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Yeah, So you guys have been together for about fifteen years,
that's right, right, So this partnership has been grounded and
obviously friendship. I could see how close you two are,
and of course this business relationship. How did your guys
individual career paths cross.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Yeah, a good question. We crossed on deals, right, We
crossed on deals. Andrew was working from a firm in town.
We did lots of deals together. The opportunity came up,
we were looking for someone, someone with Andrew's strengths. He
joined our team fifteen years ago and he's hit the
ground running amazingly, and we've really created this firm now
(03:40):
that has evolved bigger than the two of us. Really,
it's a full service real estate firm, and you know,
it's amazing to watch really right in front of you
as the firm grows. And we have five or six
partners as well as the two of us, so it's
really a diverse background of individuals that are working together.
And you know, we touched so many different type of deals,
(04:00):
so it's pretty amazing.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
How have you guys evolved it over the last fifteen years?
Speaker 1 (04:04):
You know you started out where and then tell me
a little bit about what what you guys are doing now.
Speaker 4 (04:08):
It's evolved a lot actually in the last probably three
four years since COVID, A lot of systems and processes
in place, you know, pre COVID to be transparent. You know,
we're just building, building kind of you know, reading and reacting.
Now there's a more systematic approach to it. We have
a deeper team, deeper operation staff. We have meetings on
(04:29):
a regular basis, really functioning like a high level law
firm and not only taking care of our clients, but
also figuring out, you know, what we can do to
take care of our staff, you know, build culture on
a daily basis, enhance the firm, stay in touch with
the time. So it's a lot more intention I guess
is the best word for it. We're much more intentional
(04:51):
the last five six years than we were in the past.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
What are some things you guys are really specializing in
at the moment?
Speaker 3 (04:58):
Well, I think we have a specialty in residential real estate,
representing high end, high net worth buyers and sellers all
the way from the high net worth individuals down to
the entry level individuals, first time home buyers. We have
a very strong banking practice in the residential space where
we represent a lot of institutional lenders that lend in
residential real estate, and we also have a commercial real
(05:20):
estate team. They work on transactions, whether it's buying and
selling of multi family buildings, commercial real estate, strip malls.
We do a fair amount of leasing, office leasing, retail leasing.
So it's the full gamut really, And.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
You guys are based in New York City, So what
is something happening maybe locally in the New.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
York New Jersey area real estate world.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
That people really aren't paying attention to that probably should
be aware of.
Speaker 4 (05:48):
I think activity people in the world of real estate
see the activity, especially where just in the first inning
of the spring market right now, we've been, you know,
quite busy. If you speak nationally or you know, other
parts of the country, they think, you know, New York
is quiet. They think there are issues politically that push
(06:09):
over to the real estate world. But the commercial and
residential sector you know, which we play in, are active.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
So things are certainly happening very nice.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
So you know, it's got to be We talked a
little bit about stress before. It's got to be a
stressful job. When you guys do go home at night,
you shut down. What are you doing, what are you
thinking about? What are you what are you trying to
trying to do to relax and take your mind off
of it.
Speaker 4 (06:37):
Life for kids so that pretty much takes up the evenings.
I saw I was watching a video yesterday if somebody
who said there's no really free time anymore, which I'm
I'm grateful for. You know, it's run home to go
to some games, right, some of the couch and and
you know, hang out with a family, try to I
think we've both gotten much better at reducing the stress
(06:59):
and just kind of taking it, you know, one step
at a time, you know, one day at a time,
being proactive, you know, getting ahead. You know, for example,
on a Sunday, right, spending a half hour an hour
on the computer is a game changer instead of waking
up Monday and having you know, email, you know, inbox
full of emails, going in with a fresh start, you
(07:21):
know that's been Little things like that are huge keys
to success.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
Which is interesting because that for me too, helps me
relax a little bit. Like if I'm on vacation with
the family, knowing that on my phone I've got a
thousand new emails, I'd rather look at them for a
little bit, you know, get that out of the way,
make sure everything's good, and then it kind of resets
your mind a little bit.
Speaker 4 (07:41):
We've always had the same approach even just you know,
pick up the phone on a weekend, right, A few
phone calls on the weekend, as opposed to pushing everything
until Monday is just clears your head. And it's it's
often more relaxing to speak to somebody on the weekend
than five phone calls back to back to back on
Monday morning.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
And I know what it's like kid with younger kids,
you know, So having four, I'm sure that helps your
negotiation skills moving forward right with real clients.
Speaker 4 (08:06):
I think that and it also you know, makes it
more human, right and personaliz In today's world, I can
tell a client, hey, you know, I'm running to a game,
I'm all yours, I'm you know, I'm engaged. But you know,
to give that human element I think actually helps our
business a lot.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
Okay, yeah, I think a little bit of everything, whether
it be working out. I have three girls, so I
spend a lot of time with family. I think that's
obviously very important. It's hard. It's one of these things
that you have to accept. Our business. It's while it's
twenty four to seven, it's not a constant twenty four
to seven, but a lot of clients come home. They
want to speak at night. A lot of times deals
(08:46):
are going on and we're on calls at eight nine
o'clock at night. You may have the ball game muted
in the background. You're on a call, typically not you're
not drafting documents. It's really just speaking through details of
a deal. And I think that's just part of the
are fabric now and if you can accept that that
it's not an interruption of your personal time, it becomes
a really pretty neat way to live.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
In an industry known for being very transactional. What specific
approaches have you guys implemented to make your form more
relationship driven? Really to build that connection with your clients.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
You know the deals.
Speaker 4 (09:22):
All deals have a lot of similar aspects, but we
need to make you know our service bespoke to the
client right. Every client has their own needs. I always say,
you can have two deals, same building, same floor, but
they can be completely different. So there's definitely a rhythm
and a method to any transaction, and most will be similar,
(09:42):
but you need to recognize and pay attention to the
individual client's needs right, their desires, their temperament. Some clients
want you to be aggressive. Some clients want to get
the deal done quickly. You know, who are the other
parties involved, who's the other attorney, who are the referral sources.
So there's lots of moving parts of these deals and
(10:03):
really understanding the client, but also having the confidence to
educate the client right hearing what they have to say,
but you know, speaking up and saying I hear what
you're saying. But that may not be the best path forward.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
And it's a long process. It's something you can't rush.
You got to take your time with it.
Speaker 3 (10:20):
There's the road meanders. It's funny, you know. I'll get
clients that will do an AI quick chat ept of
what needs to get done and send it over to me.
And of course it's not the right angle. It has
some pretty good stuff in it, quite frankly. So it's
a new world. We as lawyers have to not feel
threatened by that kind of an email and just use
that as a guide to talk about the framework. Sometimes
(10:43):
it's good because it educates clients, so when you speak
to clients, they have that foundation. So a lot of
changes I think in our world for sure, and a
lot of the practice of law, quite.
Speaker 4 (10:53):
Frankly, but now we know when we teach our team.
If you get questions that are out of bounds and
there just don't seem on the right path, ask the
clients where they got these questions from. And if it's
AI driven, it's like it's an easy conversation to have,
right because you're you know, this isn't you know, relatable
(11:13):
to a New York City commercial or residential transaction.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
As great as AI is, there's a time and a
place for it. Sure, at times it might help guide
you there, but you have to put that human touch into.
Speaker 4 (11:25):
Subtle tease the practical. The nuances are not there.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
But it's changing the practice of law. I'm sure in
real estate, in finance, all the areas we touch, there's
no doubt AI can benefit the benefit the lawyer, how
we benefit the client.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
How are you guys embracing it in your firm?
Speaker 3 (11:41):
You know, I think it's one step at a time.
There's a lot of security issues that come up. Quite frankly,
we represent a lot of institutional lenders. There's a lot
of wires, we send out a lot of confidential information
that we're retaining, so we're very careful with AI. But
I believe we're embracing it. I think it's something we're
trying to work into our processes. Our s ops are
stands up operating procedures on a daily basis.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Yeah, it's something you definitely have to do without a doubt.
So you guys have a tight working relationship. If you
guys had to describe each other in one word as
an attorney, what would it be?
Speaker 3 (12:14):
Hmm, that's great.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
Putting the spotlight on you both.
Speaker 4 (12:19):
Sure, I'll describe Alan as intelligence.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
I like that. That's a good one.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
I'll describe Andrew as relentless, relentless, all right, in a
good positive way. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
I think intelligence and relentless is what somebody wants for
to represent them by far.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
So those are some good terms.
Speaker 3 (12:42):
Think of some of the titans of real estate, starting
from our president down and the personalities that each of
them have. That's the type of people we deal with
on a daily basis. So having some intelligence and grit
and relentlessness doesn't hurt.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
So who is the more calmer voice then in h
depends on the day, back and forth regularly.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Yes, that's so great. That is true.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
You guys, you know you've you've talked I've seen on
your website about culture and the important of the these
deep relationships, your complimentary skill sets. We can we can
easily see by talking with you for a couple of minutes.
How do you operationalize those values across the firm day
to day. You have a big team with you you
said it was seventy five as people.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Forty five people.
Speaker 4 (13:36):
Yeah, we've spent a tremendous amount of time recently that
The truth is, we're here, but the team is is critical.
We rely on our team. Our team is amazing. It's
only gotten stronger over the years. Everybody from you know,
the receptionist to senior attorneys. So we uh, we value
(13:56):
our team. We're grateful for our team, and we we're working.
We're constantly working on you know, culture, whether it's you know,
off site meetings, whether it's weekly meetings. Each department has
weekly meetings and just fine tuning things and the idea
of getting one percent better, you know, each day or
each week.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
We're really focused on it.
Speaker 4 (14:18):
So it's a matter of setting up meetings, making the meetings,
you know, interactive, listening to what people have to say,
and taking action. And that's really been a game changer
for us, you know, showing our team how much they're
important to us and getting feedback from them, and you know,
working on enhancing the firm to make it a good
(14:42):
environment for everybody.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
I think there's a lot of effort. We have a
lot of experience with our lawyers, so there's layers of lawyers,
so our junior lawyers really communicate and work well with
our experienced lawyers. A lot of what happens in real
estate you can't teach. You can have checklists and what
we call stands it op procedures, but a lot of
it's in the gut. A lot of us that are
in the business you see things and right away like
(15:04):
wait a second, and so it says, oh, yeah, that
is the issue. Sometimes you have to Sometimes I find
clients start talking and I know the answer within seconds,
but I'm trying to listen, give them the opportunity as
a sounding board. But I think that's really what's key
in our firm. We're seeing with our growth, we have
experienced lawyers that now are being coupled with mid level
and junior lawyers support in terms of paralegals and processes
(15:27):
that we set up, and it's really the machine starting
to really work very well. And I think The proof
of the putting is what the clients are seeing, the
level of service that we're giving, the efficiency, the way
these clients feel after the transaction, which is so important
to us.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
Definitely, if there's one thing that you want people to
take away from your mission, what would it be.
Speaker 4 (15:48):
I guess that we are. We're grateful for our team.
We're grateful for the city. You know, it's a great
city to play in. It's you know and challenges us daily,
but we're also confident that we're let's say, yeah, we
kind of have things figured out right, and that our
(16:11):
mission is to you know, keep providing you know, bespoke service,
exceptional service. You know, we're grateful for our clients and
our referral sources, and we enjoy it. You know. It's uh,
I think we're both grateful to have found this profession,
you know, grateful to kind of work with the people
we work with, whether it's clients or the referral sources.
(16:33):
And we try to you know, have fun, try to
you know, be exceptional at what we do, but also
you know, have a human element in human sense and
and you know, keep things, you know, as practical as possible.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
Yeah, it's for me. If you think about it, whether
it's our residential team where people are doing their biggest
lifetime investment and they're actually moving in or selling their
their home, they raise their family, and or it's representing
someone buying a commercial building an investment property, whether they
own many investment properties or this is one of their
first few. It's it's always a very positive time. So
(17:11):
we we have positive attitudes and I think clients feel good.
I always we have friends that are litigators and we
you know, things, things go the wrong way, and it's
a harder life. It's a different it's a different mindset.
Our mindset is more positive. The deal is usually closed
within two or three months, so transactions don't last for
years and years typically how litigation works out, and I
(17:33):
think one of the things we bring to clients is
a non litigious approach to things, solution oriented. Very few
of our deals end up with litigators. If something's going
to settle, we're going to settle it. The idea they're
going to pay a litigator to us doesn't make sense,
not always the case, but I think that's really the
goal we.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
Have makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
Lastly, is there a call action you'd like to share, like,
how can people engage with or support of work you
guys are doing.
Speaker 4 (18:02):
Check out our website, you know, obviously social media channels,
whether it's LinkedIn or Instagram.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
We try to stay active.
Speaker 4 (18:09):
We Alan and I spend a lot of time speaking
to the real estate community, whether it's similar podcasts of
this or actually in the offices, small events, larger events.
So we're active, which again is part of the you know,
fund of the industry and the value we try to
give back to the industry. So it's pretty easy to
(18:29):
find us. Yeah, I can tell you guys have done
this before. Yeah, I can't. I wish we've counted how
many discussions we have together. It's probably in the thousands
at this point.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
Yeah, wonderful. Thank you so much. Thank you. This was great,
appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
Thank you guys,
Welcome to another edition of CEO's Unplugged. My name is
Eric Lemu and uh I've got two great guests here today.
I want to just kind of dive right in before
we do our introductions and talk about, like listen, buying
and selling real estate is one of the biggest financial
decisions most people will really ever make, and behind every
successful deal is a team making sure nothing falls apart,
(00:23):
really before the ink dries.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
And that's where you two guys come in.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
So today we're joined by two experts who live in
that high stakes world every single day. They've seen it all,
from complex commercial deals to every day residential transactions. From
Shaves Perlowitz Lefftig LLP. We're joined by managing Partner Alan
Perlowitz and head of Residential Andrew Luftig. Guys, thank you
so much for joining us today. Our pleasure great to.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Have you here.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
So we're gonna start a little simple like what's one
thing that people think a real estate attorney does all
day and in reality, what actually do you guys do
layman terms here?
Speaker 3 (01:00):
You know, that's that's a great question, and you know
most people think that what you learn in law school
actual the x's and o's of the deal. The contract
of sale, the law, real estate law is what we
spend our time on and that's probably ten percent of
the deal. I find that we're counselors at law, we're
almost psychologists.
Speaker 4 (01:17):
Right.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
People are buying on the residential side, if you think
about it, their biggest asset. So people are so super
hyped on this when they get home from work. This
is their this is their thing, this is what they
want to talk about. So it's so important what how
we make these clients feel as well as obviously doing
this strong legal work. It's about the process, helping people
through the process so they feel a certain way.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
I like how you said the psychiatrist thing. You know,
like you guys are deal makers, you're kind of therapists.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
I'm sure you're firefighters as well.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
You're like turning your head putting something out the next moment, right,
you know you sit at the center of these massive
life moments for people and home purchases, big investments. Do
you ever forget how big as moments are for your clients,
Like that's always got to be in your mind that
you go through this every day, but this is their
first time going through it or you know, they're rookies
(02:08):
at it compared to you guys.
Speaker 4 (02:09):
Well, I guess interesting question, right, because we as attorneys,
we should be objective, right. We want to you know,
have a bespoke service for our clients. We want to
be even keeled. We recognize, you know, it could be
their first purchase or fifth purchase, so we try not
to lose sight of that. But on the flip side,
it's our job in you know, the eye of adversity
or high stakes emotions, to be the kind of the
(02:32):
calming party, right and to be the you know, rational
and give reasonable expectations. So I think we have to
balance both aspects of that.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Yeah, so who gets more stressed? You are the client.
Speaker 4 (02:42):
We should definitely not be more stress and and you know,
there's a whole strategy right with going into a stressful situation, right,
trying to be optimistic, trying to be you know, confident
and give clear, concise information and you know, not let
those emotions take over the train.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Action makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Yeah, So you guys have been together for about fifteen years,
that's right, right, So this partnership has been grounded and
obviously friendship. I could see how close you two are,
and of course this business relationship. How did your guys
individual career paths cross.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Yeah, a good question. We crossed on deals, right, We
crossed on deals. Andrew was working from a firm in town.
We did lots of deals together. The opportunity came up,
we were looking for someone, someone with Andrew's strengths. He
joined our team fifteen years ago and he's hit the
ground running amazingly, and we've really created this firm now
(03:40):
that has evolved bigger than the two of us. Really,
it's a full service real estate firm, and you know,
it's amazing to watch really right in front of you
as the firm grows. And we have five or six
partners as well as the two of us, so it's
really a diverse background of individuals that are working together.
And you know, we touched so many different type of deals,
(04:00):
so it's pretty amazing.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
How have you guys evolved it over the last fifteen years?
Speaker 1 (04:04):
You know you started out where and then tell me
a little bit about what what you guys are doing now.
Speaker 4 (04:08):
It's evolved a lot actually in the last probably three
four years since COVID, A lot of systems and processes
in place, you know, pre COVID to be transparent. You know,
we're just building, building kind of you know, reading and reacting.
Now there's a more systematic approach to it. We have
a deeper team, deeper operation staff. We have meetings on
(04:29):
a regular basis, really functioning like a high level law
firm and not only taking care of our clients, but
also figuring out, you know, what we can do to
take care of our staff, you know, build culture on
a daily basis, enhance the firm, stay in touch with
the time. So it's a lot more intention I guess
is the best word for it. We're much more intentional
(04:51):
the last five six years than we were in the past.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
What are some things you guys are really specializing in
at the moment?
Speaker 3 (04:58):
Well, I think we have a specialty in residential real estate,
representing high end, high net worth buyers and sellers all
the way from the high net worth individuals down to
the entry level individuals, first time home buyers. We have
a very strong banking practice in the residential space where
we represent a lot of institutional lenders that lend in
residential real estate, and we also have a commercial real
(05:20):
estate team. They work on transactions, whether it's buying and
selling of multi family buildings, commercial real estate, strip malls.
We do a fair amount of leasing, office leasing, retail leasing.
So it's the full gamut really, And.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
You guys are based in New York City, So what
is something happening maybe locally in the New.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
York New Jersey area real estate world.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
That people really aren't paying attention to that probably should
be aware of.
Speaker 4 (05:48):
I think activity people in the world of real estate
see the activity, especially where just in the first inning
of the spring market right now, we've been, you know,
quite busy. If you speak nationally or you know, other
parts of the country, they think, you know, New York
is quiet. They think there are issues politically that push
(06:09):
over to the real estate world. But the commercial and
residential sector you know, which we play in, are active.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
So things are certainly happening very nice.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
So you know, it's got to be We talked a
little bit about stress before. It's got to be a
stressful job. When you guys do go home at night,
you shut down. What are you doing, what are you
thinking about? What are you what are you trying to
trying to do to relax and take your mind off
of it.
Speaker 4 (06:37):
Life for kids so that pretty much takes up the evenings.
I saw I was watching a video yesterday if somebody
who said there's no really free time anymore, which I'm
I'm grateful for. You know, it's run home to go
to some games, right, some of the couch and and
you know, hang out with a family, try to I
think we've both gotten much better at reducing the stress
(06:59):
and just kind of taking it, you know, one step
at a time, you know, one day at a time,
being proactive, you know, getting ahead. You know, for example,
on a Sunday, right, spending a half hour an hour
on the computer is a game changer instead of waking
up Monday and having you know, email, you know, inbox
full of emails, going in with a fresh start, you
(07:21):
know that's been Little things like that are huge keys
to success.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
Which is interesting because that for me too, helps me
relax a little bit. Like if I'm on vacation with
the family, knowing that on my phone I've got a
thousand new emails, I'd rather look at them for a
little bit, you know, get that out of the way,
make sure everything's good, and then it kind of resets
your mind a little bit.
Speaker 4 (07:41):
We've always had the same approach even just you know,
pick up the phone on a weekend, right, A few
phone calls on the weekend, as opposed to pushing everything
until Monday is just clears your head. And it's it's
often more relaxing to speak to somebody on the weekend
than five phone calls back to back to back on
Monday morning.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
And I know what it's like kid with younger kids,
you know, So having four, I'm sure that helps your
negotiation skills moving forward right with real clients.
Speaker 4 (08:06):
I think that and it also you know, makes it
more human, right and personaliz In today's world, I can
tell a client, hey, you know, I'm running to a game,
I'm all yours, I'm you know, I'm engaged. But you know,
to give that human element I think actually helps our
business a lot.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
Okay, yeah, I think a little bit of everything, whether
it be working out. I have three girls, so I
spend a lot of time with family. I think that's
obviously very important. It's hard. It's one of these things
that you have to accept. Our business. It's while it's
twenty four to seven, it's not a constant twenty four
to seven, but a lot of clients come home. They
want to speak at night. A lot of times deals
(08:46):
are going on and we're on calls at eight nine
o'clock at night. You may have the ball game muted
in the background. You're on a call, typically not you're
not drafting documents. It's really just speaking through details of
a deal. And I think that's just part of the
are fabric now and if you can accept that that
it's not an interruption of your personal time, it becomes
a really pretty neat way to live.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
In an industry known for being very transactional. What specific
approaches have you guys implemented to make your form more
relationship driven? Really to build that connection with your clients.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
You know the deals.
Speaker 4 (09:22):
All deals have a lot of similar aspects, but we
need to make you know our service bespoke to the
client right. Every client has their own needs. I always say,
you can have two deals, same building, same floor, but
they can be completely different. So there's definitely a rhythm
and a method to any transaction, and most will be similar,
(09:42):
but you need to recognize and pay attention to the
individual client's needs right, their desires, their temperament. Some clients
want you to be aggressive. Some clients want to get
the deal done quickly. You know, who are the other
parties involved, who's the other attorney, who are the referral sources.
So there's lots of moving parts of these deals and
(10:03):
really understanding the client, but also having the confidence to
educate the client right hearing what they have to say,
but you know, speaking up and saying I hear what
you're saying. But that may not be the best path forward.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
And it's a long process. It's something you can't rush.
You got to take your time with it.
Speaker 3 (10:20):
There's the road meanders. It's funny, you know. I'll get
clients that will do an AI quick chat ept of
what needs to get done and send it over to me.
And of course it's not the right angle. It has
some pretty good stuff in it, quite frankly. So it's
a new world. We as lawyers have to not feel
threatened by that kind of an email and just use
that as a guide to talk about the framework. Sometimes
(10:43):
it's good because it educates clients, so when you speak
to clients, they have that foundation. So a lot of
changes I think in our world for sure, and a
lot of the practice of law, quite.
Speaker 4 (10:53):
Frankly, but now we know when we teach our team.
If you get questions that are out of bounds and
there just don't seem on the right path, ask the
clients where they got these questions from. And if it's
AI driven, it's like it's an easy conversation to have,
right because you're you know, this isn't you know, relatable
(11:13):
to a New York City commercial or residential transaction.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
As great as AI is, there's a time and a
place for it. Sure, at times it might help guide
you there, but you have to put that human touch into.
Speaker 4 (11:25):
Subtle tease the practical. The nuances are not there.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
But it's changing the practice of law. I'm sure in
real estate, in finance, all the areas we touch, there's
no doubt AI can benefit the benefit the lawyer, how
we benefit the client.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
How are you guys embracing it in your firm?
Speaker 3 (11:41):
You know, I think it's one step at a time.
There's a lot of security issues that come up. Quite frankly,
we represent a lot of institutional lenders. There's a lot
of wires, we send out a lot of confidential information
that we're retaining, so we're very careful with AI. But
I believe we're embracing it. I think it's something we're
trying to work into our processes. Our s ops are
stands up operating procedures on a daily basis.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Yeah, it's something you definitely have to do without a doubt.
So you guys have a tight working relationship. If you
guys had to describe each other in one word as
an attorney, what would it be?
Speaker 3 (12:14):
Hmm, that's great.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
Putting the spotlight on you both.
Speaker 4 (12:19):
Sure, I'll describe Alan as intelligence.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
I like that. That's a good one.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
I'll describe Andrew as relentless, relentless, all right, in a
good positive way. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
I think intelligence and relentless is what somebody wants for
to represent them by far.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
So those are some good terms.
Speaker 3 (12:42):
Think of some of the titans of real estate, starting
from our president down and the personalities that each of
them have. That's the type of people we deal with
on a daily basis. So having some intelligence and grit
and relentlessness doesn't hurt.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
So who is the more calmer voice then in h
depends on the day, back and forth regularly.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Yes, that's so great. That is true.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
You guys, you know you've you've talked I've seen on
your website about culture and the important of the these
deep relationships, your complimentary skill sets. We can we can
easily see by talking with you for a couple of minutes.
How do you operationalize those values across the firm day
to day. You have a big team with you you
said it was seventy five as people.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Forty five people.
Speaker 4 (13:36):
Yeah, we've spent a tremendous amount of time recently that
The truth is, we're here, but the team is is critical.
We rely on our team. Our team is amazing. It's
only gotten stronger over the years. Everybody from you know,
the receptionist to senior attorneys. So we uh, we value
(13:56):
our team. We're grateful for our team, and we we're working.
We're constantly working on you know, culture, whether it's you know,
off site meetings, whether it's weekly meetings. Each department has
weekly meetings and just fine tuning things and the idea
of getting one percent better, you know, each day or
each week.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
We're really focused on it.
Speaker 4 (14:18):
So it's a matter of setting up meetings, making the meetings,
you know, interactive, listening to what people have to say,
and taking action. And that's really been a game changer
for us, you know, showing our team how much they're
important to us and getting feedback from them, and you know,
working on enhancing the firm to make it a good
(14:42):
environment for everybody.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
I think there's a lot of effort. We have a
lot of experience with our lawyers, so there's layers of lawyers,
so our junior lawyers really communicate and work well with
our experienced lawyers. A lot of what happens in real
estate you can't teach. You can have checklists and what
we call stands it op procedures, but a lot of
it's in the gut. A lot of us that are
in the business you see things and right away like
(15:04):
wait a second, and so it says, oh, yeah, that
is the issue. Sometimes you have to Sometimes I find
clients start talking and I know the answer within seconds,
but I'm trying to listen, give them the opportunity as
a sounding board. But I think that's really what's key
in our firm. We're seeing with our growth, we have
experienced lawyers that now are being coupled with mid level
and junior lawyers support in terms of paralegals and processes
(15:27):
that we set up, and it's really the machine starting
to really work very well. And I think The proof
of the putting is what the clients are seeing, the
level of service that we're giving, the efficiency, the way
these clients feel after the transaction, which is so important
to us.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
Definitely, if there's one thing that you want people to
take away from your mission, what would it be.
Speaker 4 (15:48):
I guess that we are. We're grateful for our team.
We're grateful for the city. You know, it's a great
city to play in. It's you know and challenges us daily,
but we're also confident that we're let's say, yeah, we
kind of have things figured out right, and that our
(16:11):
mission is to you know, keep providing you know, bespoke service,
exceptional service. You know, we're grateful for our clients and
our referral sources, and we enjoy it. You know. It's uh,
I think we're both grateful to have found this profession,
you know, grateful to kind of work with the people
we work with, whether it's clients or the referral sources.
(16:33):
And we try to you know, have fun, try to
you know, be exceptional at what we do, but also
you know, have a human element in human sense and
and you know, keep things, you know, as practical as possible.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
Yeah, it's for me. If you think about it, whether
it's our residential team where people are doing their biggest
lifetime investment and they're actually moving in or selling their
their home, they raise their family, and or it's representing
someone buying a commercial building an investment property, whether they
own many investment properties or this is one of their
first few. It's it's always a very positive time. So
(17:11):
we we have positive attitudes and I think clients feel good.
I always we have friends that are litigators and we
you know, things, things go the wrong way, and it's
a harder life. It's a different it's a different mindset.
Our mindset is more positive. The deal is usually closed
within two or three months, so transactions don't last for
years and years typically how litigation works out, and I
(17:33):
think one of the things we bring to clients is
a non litigious approach to things, solution oriented. Very few
of our deals end up with litigators. If something's going
to settle, we're going to settle it. The idea they're
going to pay a litigator to us doesn't make sense,
not always the case, but I think that's really the
goal we.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
Have makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
Lastly, is there a call action you'd like to share, like,
how can people engage with or support of work you
guys are doing.
Speaker 4 (18:02):
Check out our website, you know, obviously social media channels,
whether it's LinkedIn or Instagram.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
We try to stay active.
Speaker 4 (18:09):
We Alan and I spend a lot of time speaking
to the real estate community, whether it's similar podcasts of
this or actually in the offices, small events, larger events.
So we're active, which again is part of the you know,
fund of the industry and the value we try to
give back to the industry. So it's pretty easy to
(18:29):
find us. Yeah, I can tell you guys have done
this before. Yeah, I can't. I wish we've counted how
many discussions we have together. It's probably in the thousands
at this point.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
Yeah, wonderful. Thank you so much. Thank you. This was great,
appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
Thank you guys,
Popular Podcasts
Hey Jonas!
Hey Jonas! The official Jonas Brothers podcast. Hosted by Kevin, Joe, and Nick Jonas. It’s the Jonas Brothers you know... musicians, actors, and well, yes, brothers. Now, they’re sharing another side of themselves in the playful, intimate, and irreverent way only they can. Spend time with the Jonas Brothers here and stay a little bit longer for deep conversations like never before.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by Audiochuck Media Company.
Betrayal Weekly
Betrayal Weekly is back for a new season. Every Thursday, Betrayal Weekly shares first-hand accounts of broken trust, shocking deceptions, and the trail of destruction they leave behind. Hosted by Andrea Gunning, this weekly ongoing series digs into real-life stories of betrayal and the aftermath. From stories of double lives to dark discoveries, these are cautionary tales and accounts of resilience against all odds. From the producers of the critically acclaimed Betrayal series, Betrayal Weekly drops new episodes every Thursday. If you would like to share your story, you can reach out to the Betrayal Team by emailing them at betrayalpod@gmail.com and follow us on Instagram at @betrayalpod and @glasspodcasts. Please join our Substack for additional exclusive content, curated book recommendations, and community discussions. Sign up FREE by clicking this link Beyond Betrayal Substack. Join our community dedicated to truth, resilience, and healing. Your voice matters! Be a part of our Betrayal journey on Substack.