Darren MacDonald, CEO, Tonal | CEOs You Should Know

Darren MacDonald, CEO, Tonal | CEOs You Should Know

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi everyone, This is Steve Dell sign and welcome to
this week's edition of CEOs.

Speaker 2 (00:03):
You should know.

Speaker 1 (00:04):
I am joined by Darren McDonald, the CEO of Tonal.
Thank you for being with us, Darin, Good morning, Steve.
Super excited to dive into a conversation learn a little
bit about your background and of course more about Tonal. Great,
So why don't we kick it off. You have a
very impressive career journey, we were talking before we jumped on.
You're at Petco, you're at jet dot com and now
officially the CEO of Tonal. So why don't you tell

(00:25):
us a little bit about what drew you to Tonal
and what made you want to take on that role
of CEO.

Speaker 3 (00:30):
Sure, yeah, I mean so I've always worked in consumer
across all the businesses that I've ever worked at, so
consumer is like a major thread throughout my life. But
I've always been very interested in athletics and fitness, personal fitness,
so and in particular strength training. So sometimes I get
on the treadmill, sometimes I don't. But I think through
line through my whole career has been you know, my
whole life has been lifting weight. So I was actually

(00:52):
an owner of the product before I joined the company
and fell in love with it. So once I made
the commitment to buy the product, I just like love
the thing, And then when they came calling, it was
super easy for me to take the job.

Speaker 1 (01:01):
Yeah, you're believer in the brand immediately one hundred percent.
How has that helped you? Having that like personal experience
and that personal perspective really changed how you approach the
fitness industry now as CEO.

Speaker 3 (01:13):
Well, I mean number one, like loving the product the
way that I did. I mean, if you just look
at our business, I mean that the product itself has
enormously high MPs scores. I mean it's higher than any
business I've ever operated in. If you look at the
retention rates too, it's incredible. And it's not surprising to
me because I was using the product and following level
with it and use it all the time, and the
way that it changes your body was like really really
dramatic for me. So you know, again, when I decided

(01:36):
to join the company, it was like, I think I
can have an impact bringing this to a lot more
people and helping other people to experience the same sort
of feelings that I get, you know, in terms of
how your body evolves, how it changes, how you get stronger,
I would, improves your your mental stability. It's just a
it's an incredible product.

Speaker 2 (01:51):
That's awesome.

Speaker 4 (01:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:52):
For those that are not familiar with Total, can you
share what makes it unique? A little bit about the
product itself?

Speaker 3 (01:57):
Yeah, yeah, I mean there's a few things. Number One,
it's in your home. It's on your wall, so it's
super easy to access. Number Two, we have the ability
to do four exercises to calibrate you, so once you
do that calibration, you get access to over two hundred
and fifty exercises. Number Three, we think we've got like
the best coaches in the world as well, who guide
you through amazing workouts. I think a lot of other

(02:18):
companies probably have something similar to that or some variant,
although we think we're way better from a technology perspective.
I think the thing that really sets us apart is
the fact that we have predictive weight technology. So we
take all the mental load off of like how much
weight should I do? How many reps should I do?
We know, personalized to you in particular, how much weight
you should be lifting and how many reps you'll be

(02:39):
able to do. And so because of that, we can
make little adjustments and like one pound increments that really
kind of keep you at the ability to just lift
more and more weight, so you get stronger faster with
lower mental load. Really really cool, Rob, How do you
guys find that out? How do we predict it? The
calibration process? You basically do four exercises, think like put

(03:00):
poll legs upper body, and then because of that, we
know what your strength profile looks like and we can
figure out where you burn out, like what's your one
rep max. And then we can tailor each workout based
on the number of reps based on what you're able
to do in that one kind of calibration session.

Speaker 4 (03:14):
Yeah. It's really powerful, very very cool.

Speaker 1 (03:17):
So obviously a fan of the products. Yeah, that's an
advantage going in as a CEO, but also your experience, Right,
you've led a lot of customer focused teams in the past,
like you mentioned with Pedgo. Yeah, what are some of
those customer centric initiatives that you're going to bring and
implement now?

Speaker 4 (03:32):
Tonal Sure?

Speaker 3 (03:33):
Yeah, I mean the way I think about this is
you just have to look at the full customer journey, right,
So you have to look at What happens early in
the process is you're sort of a perspective buyer through
the process of purchasing, so you know, apply that to
a place like Tonal.

Speaker 4 (03:46):
You think about, like what's the way that we.

Speaker 3 (03:47):
Help engage with the product and give you the information
you need to start the consideration phase once you purchase. Obviously,
you want to make the installation process as simple as possible,
so we're working on refining that and making that even
better process with better communication, more updates with you after
it's installed. Obviously, we want to teach you about the thing.
So on like a treadmill or you know, a bike,

(04:08):
where it's like pretty obvious what you do, there's something
a little bit different about working out with a machine,
a cable machine, right, So we have to educate you
on like what is chains mode? Right, So when you
get to you know, higher up in your in your
rep obviously we want to add more weight. That's what
chains mode is, or eccentric mode, which is going to
give you more weight on the eccentric phase. So there's
an education process that goes to that too. We want

(04:29):
to make sure that we're educating people better on that
and then obviously getting you into programs. You know, we
want to do a better job of ensuring that you're
in like a four week program. You know, we're working
out multiple times a week. And then if you want
to relocate it obviously, you know people move right, they
change locations. We want to help improve that phase as well.
So I just think about it as like a linear
journey and look at leak each individual moment and try

(04:51):
to improve across those.

Speaker 1 (04:52):
Yeah, from start to finish exactly. The consumer's life will
a little bit easy, that's right, and more effective, that's right.
So I know your mission statement is to length in
everybody every day. Yeah, can you talk about how that
mission statement really strengthens and shapes the culture of the company.

Speaker 4 (05:06):
Sure?

Speaker 3 (05:07):
Yeah, I mean if you just think about like the
near term, the easier stuff, if you will. Like, our
coaches are the face of our company. We have seven
incredible coaches that all appeal to slightly different demographics, and
every day I think they show up trying to get
people healthier and live better lives. If you go a
little bit beyond that, we have a performance team, like
literally people who coach Olympic athletes, and they're working on

(05:29):
developing features that allow people to do things that they
couldn't otherwise do. So we just released Tonal two, which
I'm happy to tell you about later. But one of
the features is the thing called drop sets. So drop
sets basically you get to write to the point you're
about to burn out, and then we lower the weight
so you can do more, and then right when you're
about to burn out, we lower the weight even more. Well, yea,
it takes four people inside of a gym to do

(05:50):
but with totally you can just do it without anybody.
And so that sort of innovation mentality about developing those
kind of features I think is really at the heart
of what we do.

Speaker 4 (06:00):
You can go to engineering and marketing.

Speaker 3 (06:01):
We just we want to get this product out to
the masses because it really does change people's lives.

Speaker 4 (06:06):
So you know, everybody lives, eats and breeze that.

Speaker 2 (06:08):
Yeah, there's a lot of layers behind just the trainers.

Speaker 4 (06:11):
Yeah, yeah, I'm gree So.

Speaker 1 (06:13):
I know we talked about your obviously love for the product,
your background in the consumer facing industry, but I know
you also have a really strong background when it comes
to digital experience. How have you utilized that experience in
particular with this new role.

Speaker 3 (06:25):
Well, you know, one of the things that we really
focus on is just creating awareness for the product. I mean,
we think that once people actually purchase it, like myself included,
you fall in love with it. And you know that's
evidence by we have greater than ninety percent retention rate,
so you know, more than ninety percent of people after
one year are still using the product, which is the
best in the industry. So for me, it's like, We've
got this amazing product that everybody needs to know about

(06:48):
because they really fall in love with the thing. So
when I think about digital experience, it's like, how do
I tell that story digitally you know, everything from like
awareness and marketing to the content and really help people
to understand what that product looks like. And so you know,
it's a lot of what my background was, and I
think a lot of what the challenge is for me
here is to just like, how do you explain this
piece of hardware that sits on your wall in a

(07:10):
way that you look at on a web page.

Speaker 2 (07:12):
Yeah, for sure, is very impressive.

Speaker 4 (07:14):
Yeah, it is.

Speaker 1 (07:15):
Think about all the people that are joining the gym
right now and then drop off after the start of
the year.

Speaker 2 (07:19):
So that's that's incredible.

Speaker 3 (07:20):
I think it's I think it's tomorrow is like National
Quitter's Day or something like that, which is like ten
days into the year. Like the most people are like Okay,
that was good. Yeah, yeah, I mean I think it's
just super powerful. Like I don't know every company's retention rates,
but the ones that we know about, like we're in
excess of all, Like we do such a good job
holding on to people.

Speaker 2 (07:39):
That's incredible.

Speaker 1 (07:41):
So you mentioned this earlier about innovation, right, and about
constantly trying to improve the product to improve the consumer's journey.
What is your strategy in the weeks, the months, the
years to come to make sure that Tonal is at
the cutting edge of fitness technology.

Speaker 4 (07:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (07:56):
Well, you know, actually yesterday we just launched Tonal two,
you know, which is you know, over two thousand days
since total one. And so we're developing new features that
are coming to life with us. So, for example, we've
innovated around the internals of the machine, so we've made
them more reinforced. Our cables are stronger, the shoulder joints,
the risk joints, So now we go from two hundred
to two hundred and fifty pounds, right, so for people

(08:18):
want to lift heavier, that's an important innovation. We've improved
our motor control board, which now allows you to do
an aerobic mode alongside just doing traditional resistance, so you
can now do aerobic and resistance I talk to you
about drop sets, which is really important. And then we
also added a camera to the machine, which is really
really cool, so now you get foreign feedback. So if
you're doing squats and it's a heavier weight and your

(08:40):
knee is turning in, we'll tell you at the end
of the workout that, hey, like you've got some form
things that you should work on, and here's how you
can address that. So we're constantly innovating on things to
bring new value to our members as they exist today,
but also help.

Speaker 4 (08:54):
Us to capture more people.

Speaker 2 (08:56):
That's awesome.

Speaker 4 (08:56):
Yeah, I know.

Speaker 1 (08:57):
One of the things that makes you guys different is
individualized approach to each consumer, right, So I'm sure the
camera's one element of it. How else have you really
helped different individuals that purchase Tonal make every workout personalized
and really part of their fitness journey.

Speaker 3 (09:12):
Yeah, So, I mean it's a great question. It's the
thing that I love most about Tonal is that we
can tell you exactly what your weight should be. So
while I might be doing an exercise at seventy one pounds,
maybe you're at seventy four pounds, And as you lift
and as you get stronger, we will augment what that
weight amount is for that exercise to kind of keep
you on that efficient frontier. So you know what's really

(09:34):
powerful for us is like people are getting stronger faster.
It's a more efficient workout. And again you think about
something like drop sets. Now we ran in a study
with Florida Atlantic University. People are getting stronger building muscle
up to two times faster than traditional methods. So when
you think about somebody just going to the gym and
grabbing dumbells and sort of throwing them up, like you get,

(09:56):
it's effective, right, but it's not nearly as effective as
it could be. So you can work out much more
efficiently with something like Tonal.

Speaker 1 (10:03):
That's awesome And I'm sure that helps segue into my
next question. Right, So, I know one thing that you
guys really prioritize is the safety and the wellness of
the people that purchase the product, Right, how does the
technology help people prevent from training injuries. Just like you
said earlier, people go to the gym, sometimes they excel
weight too high, or their forms wrong, or their CrossFit
and they get an injury while training. Right, How have

(10:26):
you guys utilize different technologies to make sure that those
individuals using the product are safe.

Speaker 3 (10:30):
Sure, well, I think the first one is a predictive way.
We don't throw too much weight at you where you're
going to hurt yourself, and that's a really big deal.
We also have some features that allow you to control
the weight by way of pressing a button on or off,
which allows you to if you need to get the
weight off.

Speaker 4 (10:45):
You can.

Speaker 3 (10:46):
We also have certain weight modes that if you're really struggling,
think about a bench press, right, Like, if you decided
you want to do a lift like that, people get
hurt and they end up kind of dropping the weight
and it's a problem. If we see you struggling for
more than five seconds, will turn the weight off.

Speaker 2 (11:01):
It's great.

Speaker 3 (11:02):
If we see that you're struggling too much, we might
actually lower the weight within the reps so that you're not,
you know, faced with any sort of injury if you
move the bar. You know, one side higher than the other,
the weight goes off as well. And then I just
think our coaching, you know, in the program and that
we put together like we work out really safely. The
last thing I'll say about this is, which is really
really cool, is we actually have personal trainers that have

(11:23):
just this is like sort of not even us promoting
this in any way, but personal trainers buying the product,
putting six of them on a wall, then running group
classes together, and they promoted as like the most safe
way to work out. So, you know, evidence is sort
of out there amongst our you know, amongst the you know,
the people out there in the word fitness industry that
this is really really safe.

Speaker 1 (11:44):
So you guys have obviously changed the at home industry, right,
like at home fitness industry. How do you feel like
you're getting more and more consumers to work out at
home opposed to going to the traditional gym.

Speaker 3 (11:55):
Well, number one, I think we're just paddling into this
wave of like people that are doing strength and resists
since training. You know, there are so many people out there,
you know, like obviously the Hubermans and the Peter Teas
and those out there, but even more than that, people
are recognizing the power that strength training has for your
overall fitness journey. It's not about getting on a treadmill
and just crushing yourself and like that's that's an insufficient workout.

(12:17):
And people are also recognizing that, like, you need to
be building muscle up through fifty because you should anticipate
you're going to be losing approximately one percent of muscle
post fifty, so you want to build and then maintain that.
And so that combination of both resistance training as well
as cardio is really kind of the most effective workout possible.
So for us, it's really just about a building awareness

(12:39):
of resistance training and strength training as like a really
important piece of the puzzle.

Speaker 2 (12:43):
It's awesome. So let's talk go a little personal right now.

Speaker 1 (12:46):
I know that family is very important to you, and
I always love asking guess this because I think it's
something that everybody really struggles with. How do you balance
the demands of being a CEO with your personal life
and obviously staying active with your family at home too.

Speaker 3 (13:00):
Yeah, I mean I think about it in terms of
big rocks and sand, you know, like there's just certain
things that you have to prioritize, and they're non negotiables,
and family is definitely one for them. For me, you know,
I have three kids. Like lots of people say this,
I actually really live it. Like I love my kids
and I love hanging out with them. So I actually
build my year at the beginning of the year like
you would do in a business context and say, like,

(13:22):
what are the things that I want to do for
me and my family. They go on a calendar and
they don't move, Which doesn't mean that I can't be,
you know, dynamic about things that I want to add
and build in around that. But you know, for me,
I just want to make sure that you know, at
the end of the day, you know, I'm not like
big on my own personal business legacy. I don't really
care much about that, to be honest, but I want
to raise good humans and I want to be a

(13:43):
good husband and all of those things. So you know,
I just put prioritization around that.

Speaker 2 (13:47):
That's great advice.

Speaker 1 (13:48):
Yeah, So you've talked about a lot about the opportunities
the different upside. Let's talk a little bit about the
flip side, right, and what are some of the challenges
you might see ahead for the fitness industry and how
do you guys plan to combat those challenges.

Speaker 3 (14:00):
Yeah, well, you know that's like a broader retail I
would say, you know, we've had this big wave kind
of I would say in the last six years, there's
been more consumer change than in the previous fifty and
COVID was just such a massive shock to the system.
So people, you know, they bought fitness equipment that went
in their home and then you know, uh, stores open
back up and gym's open back up, and a lot
of people went back. You know, I think allowing people

(14:23):
to understand that they're going to make an investment in
a piece of equipment that is going to provide value
to them over the longer term and for many people
it will drive greater utilization for them. Like getting the
word out around that and making sure people understand that
is really kind of the number one, you know challenge
for our industry because there is you know, a traditional
method of people just you know, want to go be

(14:44):
social inside of a gym, but they don't understand that,
you know, when you got to go wait around when
it's intimidating, right, and you've.

Speaker 4 (14:51):
Got Jim bros.

Speaker 3 (14:52):
All around and you know, and you can't get a
trainer to help you that there really is a meaningful
benefit to having a piece of equipment like a Tonal
trainer in the home. So our challenge is to overcome
that by just creating greater awareness and getting more people
to try the product.

Speaker 2 (15:06):
That's awesome.

Speaker 1 (15:07):
Yeah, looking ahead at the industry, how do you feel
that the industry itself.

Speaker 2 (15:11):
Is going to involve piggybacking off of that?

Speaker 1 (15:13):
And how do you feel Tonal is going to continue
to be the most innovative within that space? Well?

Speaker 3 (15:17):
Number one, Like I said, I mean, I think there's
a major sea change happening in how people think about
fitness right now, where resistance training and strength training is
just like it's the fastest growing segment of women's exercise
right now, So people are now getting it, men and women. Yeah,
that it's a really important thing for us for them,
So our goal really is to just stay in front

(15:39):
of that however possible and let them know that we
think we've got the premiere product in the category. You know,
there are lots of people who are sort of biting
at our heels, and I think it's going to be
important for us to continue to innovate to improve the
product like we did yesterday. We want to do even
more of that, and then beyond that, we'll probably start
looking at adjacencies as well. That could be interesting categories
and markets for us to take what we think is

(16:00):
a great product into those areas as well.

Speaker 2 (16:03):
That's awesome.

Speaker 1 (16:03):
So Total two is out now, right, Yeah, what's next?
What else is on the horizon after that?

Speaker 3 (16:08):
Well, we're going to continue to innovate around software experiences, right,
I think there's there's more work for us to do
on giving consumers feedback on like, Hey, here's the progress
that you've made, Here's how your body has changed, Here's
what your muscle readiness looks like. You should be hitting
it hard today or this should be a recovery day.
Creating that like depth of engagement I think is super
important for us for the next you know kind of phase.

(16:30):
And I think beyond that, you know, we're going to
continue to develop hardware. We're going to continue to develop
products that we think are easy for people to install,
to work out with, that they love. And as I
said before, I think there's lots of adjacencies that we
can go into. Again, I don't see any reason because
we're seeing this pop up why personal trainers wouldn't have
a series of these on their walls and do group
fitness classes. We just opened up a studio in Soho

(16:51):
this week. It's a pop but we want to learn
what that looks like. So actually doing group fitness together,
we think is a you know, a place that we
should be sort of sailing as well.

Speaker 4 (17:01):
Very cool, Yeah, very very cool.

Speaker 1 (17:03):
I always love asking my guest this at the the
end of the interview. What is one piece of advice
for anyone tuning in right now that is just about
to start their journey, just about to enter really the
business field.

Speaker 3 (17:13):
Well, look, I've strongly held point of view on this, Okay,
Number one maybe number one, two and three is you
have to be excited about the thing you want to
go do. If you aren't excited to get out of
bed in the morning to go do the thing, you're
not thinking about the right thing. So I think really
understanding in the back of your head what are your
kind of core motivations and the things that excite you.

(17:34):
I think that's really important to understand. If you get
that right and you really understand where you want to be,
I think the next thing is to look at you know,
a high growth business, one that's growing fast that you
want to go attach yourself to. And then articulating, you know,
what are the things that you're good at, what do
you want to do, and how do you provide value
to that company are super important. And then the last

(17:54):
piece of advice I always give people is like, I
think it's very important to find a manager that's got
your back. You know, somebody that provides sort of you know,
not only like physical safety and trust, but also like
they're going to be a steward of your career as well.
They're going to help advance you. So if you can
get those things right, I think you'll you set your
career up really really well.

Speaker 2 (18:13):
That's awesome.

Speaker 1 (18:13):
We talked about one and too, because you definitely have
passion for the product. Yeah, what about number three? Is
there anyone that helped influence your career throughout the way?

Speaker 4 (18:20):
Gosh, I had all kinds of people.

Speaker 3 (18:21):
Yeah, I mean I've been very, very fortunate to work
for some awesome people, you know, Mark Laurie at JET.
I've worked for a handful of people, even in smaller
companies that just showed up early. You know, recognize that
if I worked really hard that they would reward me.
And so that's just been an ethos that I've grabbed
from them, and I think that that's, you know, from
a leadership perspective, something that people who work on my

(18:44):
team's super important to them.

Speaker 2 (18:46):
I'm sure you're playing it forward now.

Speaker 4 (18:47):
And you're one hundred percent.

Speaker 2 (18:48):
Yeah, awesome.

Speaker 1 (18:49):
We covered a lot, talked a little bit about you
obviously the company. Is there anything we might have missed
that you want our listeners to know?

Speaker 3 (18:55):
Oh boy, yeah, I guess you know, for me, just
as a you know, a human being who operates in
the business sphere, like I think what's really important to
get really effective performance out of your yourself, which would
span across things like you know, your family, your personal relationships,

(19:16):
and your business career is oscillating amongst things that are
hard and bring you joy. So if you just go
grind at work all day, you know, kind of like
six to twelve every day, you will burn out. So
if you don't take the time to go sort of
like do things that you enjoy, things that bring you
sort of personal joy over time, you know, like being

(19:38):
the warrior that shows up in the office first and
is you know, the last one to leave every day,
it'll grind you into the ground. And so I just
think it's important to have balance in your life. You
want to be passionate, you want to work hard if
you want to do a good job in business. But
I would just offer the advice that for people, you know,
you have to go do other things so that you
can be the best version of yourself.

Speaker 2 (19:58):
It's great advice.

Speaker 1 (19:58):
Yeah, if someone to today they want to learn more
about Tunnel, what's the first step.

Speaker 3 (20:03):
First step, I would go check out the website. You know,
that's a fantastic resource to understand what the product is,
what the businesses who it's good for. You know, people
who might be taking gop ones, who are losing muscle,
in many cases faster than they are losing you know,
fat people, are active agers, people who want to be
good athletes, people are fighting the dad bod.

Speaker 4 (20:24):
You know.

Speaker 3 (20:24):
Like it's a great resource for people to understand what
the overall product looks like. I would direct people there
for sure.

Speaker 2 (20:30):
Awesome.

Speaker 1 (20:30):
Well, Darren, thank you so much for coming me, Thanks
for sharing your journey telling us a little bit more
about the company.

Speaker 2 (20:35):
We really appreciate it.

Speaker 4 (20:35):
Yeah, thanks to you appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (20:37):
Awesome.

Speaker 1 (20:37):
Thank you, get everybody for tuning in to to next
week for next week's edition of CEOs.

Speaker 2 (20:40):
You should know