Dr. Curtis Palmore CEO OF United Charter Schools

Dr. Curtis Palmore CEO OF United Charter Schools

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to CEOs You Should Know. I'm Kate O'Donnell, and
I am joined today by Dr. Curtis Palmore, who is
the CEO of the United Charter Schools.

Speaker 2 (00:08):
Welcome.

Speaker 1 (00:09):
We're so excited to have you.

Speaker 2 (00:10):
I'm so excited to be here. Thank you so much.
Appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (00:13):
Well, we'll get right into we want to learn a
lot more. So, you know, to start off, you've dedicated
more than 30 years to public education, and you often
speak about ensuring every child has access to an excellent
education regardless of their circumstances.

Speaker 2 (00:29):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (00:30):
What inspired you to enter the field, and what has
kept you motivated throughout your career?

Speaker 3 (00:35):
So in full transparency, what inspired me was a student
when I was in college. I actually had a pathway
and thought that I was going to be going into
law school. And in my senior year of college, I
got accepted to law school, a full ride to law school,
and I finished school early. So I had basically four

(00:58):
or five months to wait until the May graduation. During
that time, I volunteered at a school and fell in
love with kids in a way that was palpable.

Speaker 2 (01:11):
And real for me.

Speaker 3 (01:12):
And this one young kid, his name was Hakeem, through
the magic of Facebook and social media, we've become friends.
But Hakeem was tugging.

Speaker 2 (01:22):
On my heart.

Speaker 3 (01:23):
He asked me to come on the days that I
wasn't volunteering, and then at the end of the experience,
a principal pulled me aside and was like, hey, you
really should think about getting into teaching. And because of that,
I deferred my entrance into law school. I found out
about a program called Teach for America. I applied, I

(01:46):
got in, and I said, I'm going to give myself
one year. I'm going to teach, I'm going to go
back to New York City, where I'm from, and said,
if I like this work. I'm going to make this
my life's work. And if not, I'm going to go
into law school. My parents were totally against it. They
wanted me to have a pathway into becoming a lawyer.

Speaker 2 (02:06):
But that really was the inspiration for me. And since then, in.

Speaker 3 (02:11):
My 33 years of doing this work, I basically have
found that same kind of passion with the kids that
I've served in different classrooms, in different districts, and now
with United.

Speaker 2 (02:23):
Charter High School.

Speaker 1 (02:24):
So from that one year at Teach from America to
now you're leading the largest charter high school network in
New York City.

Speaker 2 (02:32):
High school, yes.

Speaker 1 (02:34):
Which is awesome. What has been the most influential experience
along that journey?

Speaker 3 (02:39):
So I think seeing the benefits of the hard work
that we've put in to supporting students.

Speaker 2 (02:47):
I've had the privilege.

Speaker 3 (02:49):
to see some of the challenges like visiting jails because
of students that have had wrong pathways going to four
or five funerals, unfortunately.

Speaker 2 (02:59):
But the large part.

Speaker 3 (03:01):
Of what I've seen in terms of success is students
that are doctors, attorneys, teachers, having students invite me to
come to weddings and baby showers and having lunch with
now adults that were former students like that to me
is like the speed spot and why we do this

(03:23):
work and probably the most rewarding part of this work.

Speaker 2 (03:26):
Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (03:28):
So you were born and raised in the Bronx and
clearly education was important as you talked about your pathway
through law school. How has your own educational experiences shaped
your perspective on what you're doing now, your leadership, the opportunity,
the impact these schools have?

Speaker 3 (03:44):
So I, um, I really was fortunate to, even though
I lived in really challenging.

Speaker 2 (03:50):
Parts of the Bronx, I was fortunate to have excellent teachers.

Speaker 3 (03:54):
I had teachers that cared about me because of just
some of the gaps that I had. I really wasn't
an academically proficient kid until high school. Part of it
was me getting my act together, and then part of
it was me just not applying myself. But I had
teachers that cared about me, that, like, pulled me aside,

(04:16):
in many cases motivated me. And quite frankly, what I realized,
and it's ironic that we're here in this building because
across the street is this.
There's a high school, a college preparatory building called Kaplan,

(04:36):
or an organization called Kaplan. And they provide college.
To tutoring for SATs. And when I went to, I
actually went to that building in 1989 for a year
to basically get myself ready for the SATs. And there
is where I realized, because at that time Kaplan.

Speaker 2 (04:56):
Wasn't like as big as it is now. And there,
there were.

Speaker 3 (05:00):
Kids from Westchester, kids from New Jersey, kids from affluent communities.
And that's when I realized, I was like, wow, like
there's so many inequities within the public school system. Like
those kids were taking it just to make sure they
get into the best of best schools. I was taking
those classes because I wanted to make sure I get
a scholarship because I knew I couldn't afford, my parents

(05:22):
couldn't afford to pay for college tuition. And quite frankly,
I think those are some of the small moments that
have shaped my lens around education.

Speaker 2 (05:32):
Like it shouldn't just because, it shouldn't be just.

Speaker 3 (05:35):
Because of your zip code that you are granted the
ability to have a great education. And that's a huge
driver for a lot of the work that we do
at United Charter High Schools.

Speaker 1 (05:46):
Well, and you've led. You've led school turnaround efforts. You've
opened new schools, expanded programs. You've implemented a lot of
strategic improvements in multiple organizations that you've worked with. So
what do you think the leadership principles are that have
been most important to help you drive that change?

Speaker 2 (06:03):
I think it's three.

Speaker 3 (06:03):
I think first is being very clear about what your
priorities are. You've got to be able to say no
to certain things, and saying yes to things means that
you are really putting your focus and your effort and
your attention towards maybe those three to five things are
drivers for your work. I think the second most important principle,

(06:27):
which is just listening, like listening on the ground on
how things are going, being able to be involved in
the kind of, feedback that stakeholders are giving you about
the progress, a lack of progress that you're making. And
then probably the hardest in which a lot of the
third area, which a lot of leaders unfortunately fail with,

(06:51):
is like holding people accountable.

Speaker 2 (06:53):
And to me, I look at accountability through like two lenses.

Speaker 3 (06:57):
Like the first lens is like having difficult conversations, being
able to like, you know, have the ability to have
those conversations when things are not going well, but.

Speaker 2 (07:09):
Then through the lens of support.

Speaker 3 (07:11):
Like if someone's not meeting expectation, like how are you
supporting them to be successful? And if you have like
those three principles in mind, I think regardless of the
industry you're in, regardless of the work you're doing, like
that's going to be a good framework on helping you
to move forward.

Speaker 1 (07:29):
I loved how you talked a little while ago about
how the teachers and mentors in your life were so important.
And when you look at your experience, own passion is
developing these future leaders through that mentorship, through coaching.

Speaker 2 (07:41):
I know you.

Speaker 1 (07:42):
Talked offline about coaching your own children. How do you
cultivate leadership, not only among your students, but also among
educators and administrators?

Speaker 2 (07:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (07:53):
So coaching is a huge part of what we do
at United Charter High Schools.

Speaker 2 (07:57):
And even prior to United, a lot of.

Speaker 3 (08:00):
The philosophy that I have around coaching is that, you know, you, you,
Really think, again, around what's the kind of priorities and
focus work that a leader is doing. But then to
me it's also about ensuring that you are stretching someone
beyond what their thoughts are around their capabilities. It's important

(08:23):
that obviously you set goals and what we call key
performance indicators and things of that nature. But at United,
one of the things that we work on is really
stretching someone through rigorous conversations, helping them to maybe broaden
some of these growth areas, and really pushing them in
a sequential way to reaching those aspirational goals.

Speaker 1 (08:47):
So as CEO of United Charter High Schools, what is
your vision for the organization as we look at the
next five, ten years?

Speaker 2 (08:54):
Yeah, so there's a lot.

Speaker 3 (08:55):
There's a lot, and it's kind of ever-changing, too. So
we have been on the forefront, and we've written.
And published a couple of pieces around this work. But
we've been on the forefront around these competencies called Portrait
of a Graduate. New York State essentially released a set

(09:18):
of competencies, seven competencies that we want every student to
be able to have experiences before they graduate. And now
it's a new driver on like how schools are looking
at curriculum, how schools are looking at support, and also
looking about how schools are looking at graduation competencies and requirements.

(09:41):
And quite frankly, in several years to come, they're going
to replace some of the tests and regents exams that
students typically take in the state of New York. United
Charter High Schools has been on the forefront of that work.

Speaker 2 (09:53):
We've had one of.

Speaker 3 (09:55):
Our flagship schools that has piloted this work. And then
last year, before the competencies were put out in New
York State, we actually did a pilot within our organization
to promote this work. I, in the next four to
five years, I want to see that those competencies are

(10:15):
living in every single classroom.

Speaker 2 (10:18):
Across United China High School.

Speaker 3 (10:19):
I want to see the thousands of students that we
serve be able to live and breathe those competencies. And
there are things like being an effective communicator, a global citizen,
critical thinker. Those kind of things are what we, as adults,
need to have. And quite frankly, we want to make
sure that those things are embedded in every single student.

(10:40):
Another big area is around belonging. with AI, the internet,
social media. Unfortunately, our kids are in many spaces where,
especially as high schoolers, they're isolated and there's not a
sense of belonging. And that's something that is near and

(11:02):
dear to us. Part of what we've kicked off early
this week is that with our staff is that we
want every student to be known by an adult in
our organization. That every student has some kind of relationship
with an adult so that they feel like this is
a safe place for them. And that's something that we

(11:22):
are working really strategically on. We have a couple of
new systems that we're promoting that. Three to five years,
we want that to be a real fact that students
in every school can say, yep, I feel a sense
of belonging here. And then probably the third most important,
biggest thing for us, but they're all kind of intertwined
with those other areas, is that every single kid has

(11:44):
a pathway to a college and career. Like, that is
first and foremost our goal. Like, I want to make
sure that every single, we have a 95% graduation rate
right now, teetering on 98 after a couple of kids
get their act together with a couple of tests in
a couple of months. But, you know, we want to

(12:06):
make sure that every student knows what college they're going to.

Speaker 2 (12:11):
And if it's not, what they're prepared for that career.

Speaker 3 (12:14):
We have a couple of programs across our schools that
give internships and work-based learning experiences so that kids ultimately
can jump right into a career of their choice. But
we want to have that cemented. And I'd love to,
in the next five years, have partners, corporations that say, hey,
I want to have a United kid that is a

(12:37):
United student or scholar, as we call them, that is like.

Speaker 2 (12:41):
doing their senior.

Speaker 3 (12:42):
Year at their corporation, and then maybe having a summer
experience as they're in college. I would love to have
five to 10 companies that are working in partnership with us.

Speaker 2 (12:53):
Doing that work. That's awesome.

Speaker 1 (12:56):
I mean, it sounds like your instructional approach is very
responsive to students' individual needs. And I love that you
have that one-to-one connection with adults. there's a lot of
data it sounds like that's behind what you're looking at
and what you're doing. So how do you balance that?
How do you balance that personalized support with maintaining those
high expectations and that academic rigor that's going to get

(13:18):
them beyond graduation?

Speaker 3 (13:20):
So, I mean, I think those don't have to be opposites.
I think they need to work in tandem. And quite frankly,
like that is part of what we are on Monday.
We had what we call our welcome back day where
we welcome back all of our teachers, 318 of our teachers,
across our seven schools. We all came together on their
first day back. And part of my message and my

(13:42):
opening message to them was that, you know, great instruction,
absence of belonging is not going to work. Like they
have to be partners. They have to be one in
the same. The balancing, to balance it is, is challenging. And,
but quite frankly, that challenge, I'm so happy that so

(14:04):
many of our teachers welcome the challenge. And those that
might struggle at times need just a reminder that great
challenging things doesn't mean a bad thing. Anything great in history,
there's been some kind of obstacles and some kind of challenges.
And we can think about the most biggest achievements in
history to small things in families.

Speaker 2 (14:25):
That is just a part of life.

Speaker 3 (14:28):
And part of what we try to do is that's
embedded in.

Speaker 2 (14:33):
Some of our coaching that we do with teachers. It's embedded.
And some of the step backs that.

Speaker 3 (14:38):
We do, we have a structure where our teachers meet
in department team meetings and they get to lean on
each other, share resources about how to do this work,
share resources about how they're connecting with students. And like
those kind of structures do help us ultimately to like
balance those two big areas.

Speaker 1 (14:58):
I mean, it's so important because You know better than anyone, educators,
they're facing learning loss, student engagement. There's all these outside
forces working against them, workforce demands. What do you see
as the biggest challenge facing education today?

Speaker 3 (15:13):
I think one of the biggest challenges is going to
be the use of AI and how artificial intelligence has
got to change the work and how people work and
also going to change how we educate students. Ironically, yesterday
I did a piece with CBS, and I can share

(15:33):
the clip with you.

Speaker 2 (15:34):
This morning it came out.

Speaker 3 (15:37):
And yesterday, New York City Department of Education, they actually
put out their policies around AI, and their policies essentially
say that K-8th grade or pre-K-8th grade will not have
the ability to use AI, and 9th through 12th grade will.
And they reached out to us because they know that

(15:59):
we've been doing a lot of work around AI.

Speaker 2 (16:01):
And I'll get back to the work that we're doing.
But I think the biggest problem is that AI is
changing the jobs that we have.

Speaker 3 (16:10):
And I think in the next five years, there's going
to be multiple jobs that will be obsolete. The next
10 years, when my kids graduate from college, their jobs
are going to look very different. And quite frankly, we're
not just keeping up. in terms of how we're educating students.
And that is going to be really hard work that

(16:31):
policymakers will have to think very deeply about how.

Speaker 2 (16:34):
To make shifts around that.

Speaker 3 (16:37):
What we've done, just to go back around the AI
piece in schools, we've built out something called playbooks that
basically give teachers and leaders structures in which how we
should use AI in a responsible way.

Speaker 2 (16:53):
We've also.

Speaker 3 (16:55):
And that was pervasive across all our seven schools so
that every teacher knows like these are the structures, these
are the ways to use it in a responsible way.
So for example, no, we don't want our kids, our students,
our scholars utilizing AI to like write their written thesis
or their essays, but it's okay if you use AI

(17:18):
for teachers to like differentiate ways in which they could
support students on how to actually write effective essays. We've
also built, we've also partnered with a couple of companies
to ultimately have tools that help us to use AI
in that kind of constructive.

Speaker 2 (17:36):
Way as well. Awesome.

Speaker 1 (17:38):
So there's a lot of aspiring educators and school leaders
out there. What would be your practical advice for how
they can make a lasting impact in this educational field?

Speaker 3 (17:49):
So I think, I think it's important that folks don't
chase titles. Like I, um, and just really think about
opportunity over titles. Like it's, um, I do some work
with a couple of the universities that, um, I've supported, um,

(18:11):
that I got graduated doctorate degrees, my doctorate degree from. And, um,
You know, one of the things, some of those that
work is, like, mentoring, like, inspiring principals and assistant principals.
And what I often see is, like, folks are just, like,
they're chasing, like, a paycheck or they're chasing, like, a

(18:33):
title for, like, director or, like, grade chair leader. And, yeah,
my advice is, like, let's think about, like, the opportunity,
the impact that you can have. and go really hard
and really focused around that and not focusing at all
on these titles.

Speaker 2 (18:53):
Because I found in my career, quite frankly.

Speaker 3 (18:56):
The progression to become an assistant principal was.

Speaker 2 (19:01):
Not even anything that I had even fathomed.

Speaker 3 (19:04):
But it was because I was connecting with teachers, I
was providing professional development, I was showing these leadership qualities
that I didn't even know I had, to be quite honest.
And my principal pulled me aside and was like, hey, Curtis,
you should really think about going into this graduate school.

Speaker 2 (19:20):
Like, they have a great program. Like, you can get
a certification. They can do X, Y, and Z.

Speaker 3 (19:24):
And almost the exact same conversations happened with other leaders
that inspired me to go on to district level and
now CEO and superintendent position. So really focus on opportunities
you have as a teacher. Focus on the impact that
you can have. And I think that's going to be
the driver for one's success.

Speaker 1 (19:43):
So what's next for United Charter High Schools? Any exciting
developments or expansions on that? the immediate horizon no.

Speaker 3 (19:51):
I mean our biggest thing is like we're focusing heavily
on making portrait of a graduate real in every single
classroom biggest driver for our work right now it is
like driving we right now right at this moment 11
30 we have 318 educators that are preparing for September 10th.
They're digging in deep with lessons and planning and units

(20:14):
to make sure that those competencies come out in their lessons.

Speaker 2 (20:19):
We are doing a huge.

Speaker 3 (20:21):
Expansion around the work for relationship mapping, which essentially is
like a really strategic structure to make sure that.

Speaker 2 (20:29):
We have that sense of belonging with every single student.

Speaker 3 (20:32):
And that to your point, there's data behind that. Students
and families don't need to know anything about that, but
there is a structure in which we're holding people accountable,
which we.

Speaker 2 (20:43):
Are checking in with folks.

Speaker 3 (20:45):
And then the college and career access piece, we have
a number of really exciting experiences for students. We have
a huge historically black college and university tour that we
do with students.

Speaker 2 (20:59):
We have one in February and one in June.

Speaker 3 (21:02):
That's giving access to schools that kids may not have
been thinking about because there are schools throughout the country
and they're touring that. And we're also expanding some of
our workforce learning experiences. So we have a partnership with
NYU and a couple other nonprofit organizations that are giving

(21:22):
our kids real world experiences through internships.

Speaker 2 (21:26):
And I'm really excited about that work. Awesome.

Speaker 1 (21:30):
So if there's one thing you want people to take
away from your mission... After this interview, what would it be?

Speaker 2 (21:37):
We're seven amazing schools.

Speaker 3 (21:40):
We are a network that will ensure that your students,
a network of schools that will ensure that your students
have a sense of belonging.

Speaker 2 (21:49):
They're going to be known by adults.

Speaker 3 (21:51):
They're going to be challenged around really rigorous curriculum and experiences.

Speaker 2 (21:57):
And they're going to be set up, and when they
leave us, they're going to be set.

Speaker 3 (22:00):
Up to ensure that that they go on to either
a great college or the career of their choice. And
if interested in finding out, go to unitedcharterhighschool.org.

Speaker 1 (22:09):
You beat me to it. I was going to say,
how can people learn more and engage and share all
the great things that you're doing?

Speaker 2 (22:16):
Yeah, unitedcharterhighschool.org.

Speaker 3 (22:18):
And I also encourage folks to find us on our
socials as well.

Speaker 2 (22:22):
We're on every handle. Awesome.

Speaker 1 (22:25):
Well, thank you so much for joining. It was a
pleasure meeting you and learning more about the great work
that you're doing.

Speaker 2 (22:30):
Thanks so much.

Speaker 1 (22:31):
Keep doing it.

Speaker 2 (22:32):
Yeah. Thank you so much. Love to come back as
we progress as well. Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (22:36):
Well, we really appreciate. Thank you for joining us on
CEOs You Should Know. Again, I'm here with Dr. Curtis Palmore,
who is the CEO of United Charter High Schools.

Speaker 2 (22:44):
Great. Thank you so much.

Speaker 1 (22:45):
Appreciate you joining us.

Speaker 2 (22:46):
Awesome.