January 2, 2026 • 23 mins
Gregory Hayer - CEO of Calcium Oxalate Labs, Inc., The Maker of Kidney C.O.P.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi everyone, this is Steve Alisana. Welcome to this week's
edition of CEOs. You should know I'm thrilled to be
joined by Gregory Hayer, the CEO of calcium Oxidate Labs,
the maker of kidney cop Gregory, thanks for being here today.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Thank you, Steve for having me in all your colleagues.
I mean, I really appreciate, I mean it sincerely for
inviting us here today.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Absolutely. Well, we're excited to learn more about you and
of course the company. So I know, to kick it off,
why don't we talk a little bit about your backstory.
I know you had a long, successful career at URL
Pharma before founding Calcium Oxalate Labs. What inspired you to
make that leap from corporate executive role to really starting
your own company.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Well, I enjoy my time in a corporate world. I
spent thirty four years in the corporate world. Twenty nine
of those years were there a company called URL Pharma.
The five years prior to that, I worked for a
pharmaceutical division of.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Jay and Jay. Very nice.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
It gave me a wealth of experience in training, but
the entrepreneurial spirit went out and I made the leap
to UL Pharma. And at the time it was a
very small company, only doing about sixteen million dollars a year.
And I say entrepreneurial, but I didn't own the company,
so it wasn't really a full entrepreneurial move. But every
(01:13):
single employee had a piece of the company, had stock
in the stock in the company, so we I loaned
my colleagues. We built that company from sixteen million dollars
in annual sales to over five hundred and fifty million dollars.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
That's incredible.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
And we sold that company then to Taketa for eight
hundred million plus contingencies. So from the entrepreneurial side, every
single employee got a nice check when we sold the company,
and then we had contingencies built in, so as long
as the patents held for the products that that CADA
was interested in, they all received a check year after year.
So that was a wonderful thing from an entrepreneurial standpoint.
(01:51):
But you'll say, why did I start Calcium Oxylate Labs
and Kennystone Research Company. Well, right at the time when
we were negotiating that sale to the CATA, I succumbed
to another bout with Kinney Stones, and I had quite
a few bouts with Kinney stones through the years. In fact,
my first one was in my twenties during Super Bowl Sunday.
(02:11):
Oh my gosh, that's a whole nother story. But anyway,
I had several bouts with Kenney stones, and so now
I'm retired, and so I think, this have.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
To be a better way.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Because what physicians are eurologists to frologists tell you when
you get your first bout with Kinney stones is that hey,
drink lots of water and change your diet to low
oxolate diet. I did those things, I still kept getting stones.
So I just said, there has to be a better way.
And I was very blessed. I sent my whole life career,
(02:43):
so to speak, in the pharmaceutical world. So I ended
up having lots of friends with doctors, pharmacists, scientific researchers,
and best of all, I had a friend who was
a doctor trained in urology, a pharmacist, and a scientific researcher.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
In fact, he developed many prescription drugs that your listeners
utilize today. So we started researching the world for clinical
studies to find out what was done to really help
those people with calcium oxillate stone. Challenges and we found
some promising information and basically we said, hey, let's move forward.
We started focus and trying to do everything we can
(03:24):
to come up with a solution to help these people
with calc oximate stone challenges and we were successful.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
That's awesome. Well, it sounds like your own personal experience
kind of inspired you to create the company it is today. Right,
So I know that for a brief moment you were
retired after Urel Pharma was sold. That didn't last long obviously.
What was it that during this experience with kidney stones
and doing that research in that background that really ignited
(03:53):
you to take that next step to create the company itself?
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Well, as I mentioned earlier, had many bounts with any stones,
and as I mentioned, the doctors tell you drink lots
of water and what's that that's basically six eight ounce
glasses of water spread throughout the day, and to consume
a low oxalate diet.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
But they don't give you much more information. So what
do you do?
Speaker 2 (04:16):
You know, I start looking, like most people do, you
go online and start looking into diets, and I started
looking at my own diet and I said, okay, I
eat a lot of spinach salads. I love spinach salads.
Healthy for you, right, I think super high in oxalates.
I love dice tea super high in oxalates A real no. No,
(04:38):
I love nuts. Many nuts are super high in oxalates.
You see all the advertisements for red beats are healthy,
not good if you're susceptible to getting stones. Read this
is one of the highest vegetables with regards to oxalates.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
So you get the ideas.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
It's very hard to follow every day a low oxalate
diet day out. So I try to, but just didn't
work for me. So we really started researching, as I
mentioned earlier, and we even found that a prescription drug
that's already been approved to fight kenney stones, He said,
saying to myself, why don't they describe.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
This for me?
Speaker 2 (05:17):
For me, Well, your your research. It's it's called your
set K. The acting ingredients potassium citrate very high. It's
a very high dose of potassium citrate.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Well what happens?
Speaker 2 (05:29):
I mean, it works, but a lot of people get
gas tun intestinal problems taking the product. And for those
who have maybe hard conditions, you're going to find some
muscle uh weakness. They can get your regular heartbeat and
severe cases even cardiac arrest. So there's some side effect
issues that a lot of doctors just don't prescribe the products,
(05:49):
so they revert back to something they know that helps.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Drink lots of water.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
I mean, think about it, and I'm going to really
simplify the Kenny's like a test to get lots of
fluid going through the kenney. That does help, There's quite
no question about that. But they try to switch to
a low oxolate diet, but as I mentioned it, it's
so hard to follow. So we just thought there had
to be a better way. So we started researching around
the world as I mentioned, and we did lots of
(06:16):
testing of our own, and the bottom line is we
developed the product that works. It has five It's called
Kidney coop Calcium Oxalate Protector. It is five active ingredients.
Every one of these ingredients are a combination of them
have human clinical trials that show have a positive effect
and inhibiting calcium oxolate crystal growth.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
We took these.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Five ingredients, combined them, we optimized the form, the combination
and the strengths. We get ninety nine percent inhibition in
the growth rate of calcium oxolate crystals. You know, we
actually grew the crystals in the laboratory, So we could
have taken this product, you know, prescription, but we didn't.
But as I said, we got this ninety nine percent inhibition.
(06:58):
There's not another company world that can make that claim.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
It's processed. So, as I said, with a.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
You know, a word of five US patents, we could
have taken the prescription route. But at my age, and
it's cost you to go to the prescription route would
have taken a lot of years. But because we had
safe ingredients, we could take it right to market.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
I wanted to do that, and that's what we chose
to do.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
That's great. Now, let's talk a little bit about your
leadership style as a leader. I know that you emphasize
caring and integrity as two of your core leadership values.
How do those principles really translate into how you lead
your team and you even interact with your day to
day customers.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Well, by the time I can remember, I've always expressed
to managers, my colleagues, my friends.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
And I really really believe this.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
I've learned this through the years that you can't make
a person care, it comes from within.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
We can discuss how that happens if it's you know
your your your you grew up what you're exposed to
in life. But at the end of the day, I
find you can't make a person care. The same with integrity.
Integrity is very, very important. I've always told all my managers,
even my children, integrity is something no one can take
away from you.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
Yep. So in our company, we try.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
To hire people and retain people that care. As they said,
you can't make a person care, but we want these
people that care about the customer, want to do the
best at everything that they do. I can tell you this,
I much rather hire a person that they have to
have to be smart and capability, But I much rather
(08:39):
hire a person maybe it doesn't have much as much experience,
maybe as much education that cares, versus someone who checks
all the boxes. Wonderful education, lots of training, but doesn't care.
I'm telling you, as a company, you'll go much further
because you can always teach an other person. But if
you have a person that cares, that's going to make
a big difference for your company and for your customers.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
And I think that also translate into really like your team, right,
you want to make sure that they care about the
customers as well. How do you make sure that you
continue that thought process that you have as one of
your core values to all the employees within it. I
know that you've mentioned like it's not something that necessarily
people have in them, But if they don't have them
in them, how you're really en fostering your team to
(09:20):
continue to do so?
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Well, it's every day in our company we emphasize how
much we want to help the customer solve their calcium
oxylate stone challenges. But like you say, based on your question,
how do you facilitate that, Well, we foster that based
on the policies we have within the company. The customers
(09:42):
always number one. Well, you can say that, but what
do you do? What kind of policies do you have
in place? Well, we pick, for example, a product one
hundred percent no returns, does not matter at all customer service,
You speak with a live human could it'd be a
lot less expensive for me to have an automated system.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Does a system care for you?
Speaker 2 (10:01):
No? When you call our company, you speak with a
live person. They know the business inside and out. They
know about calcium oxilate stone challenges and they're going to
do everything possible to try to help you. To me,
that makes a big difference. We have a customer something
else we do. We have a customer financial assistance program.
You want to talk about caring for customer. There's not
(10:22):
another supplement company that I know of in a world
that provides, like some of the prescription brand companies to
patient assistance programs.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
We offer our customer assistance program. If you cannot.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Afford you really strapped, can't afford a product, we provide
a product free to the customer every single month. I
don't know any other supplier does that in the marketplace.
We we just don't state it. We how we act,
what we do is all based on trying to help
that customer solve their calcium oxilate stone challenges.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Yeah, you guys are a living example of really having
that mission of not just helping people prevent kidney stones,
but also improving their quality of life. I know it's
some other initiatives you have is like your your your cookbook,
and you also have teas that are really expanding into
lifestyle support. What role does the education of that overall
strategy really play and helping maintain people's lifestyles.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Well, information, or I should say that the correct information
is the most important thing you can possibly obtain in
order to manage your calcium oxalate stones. When you first
get a stone, I mentioned the doctors drink lots of
what are those six hages ounce bests of water per day,
spread throughout the day, and consume a low oxolate diet. Well,
(11:37):
what's the low oxalate diet? In other words, you have
to know it's not just a diet. How many how
much OXOLATETIONH I consume every day? What foods? There's thousands
of foods. How much oxalates all in all those foods?
Speaker 3 (11:53):
I think?
Speaker 2 (11:54):
I take calcium, especially if you get you're more senior,
take a calcium succulent? Do I keep taking that every day?
These are all types of questions that anyone who ever
had a Kinney stone asks themselves to try to manage
the calcium oxylate stone challenges. Well, I decided to write
a book called the Ultimate Low Oxalate Diet Cookbook, but
it's much more in a cookbook. The first twenty pages
(12:16):
are all about managing your calcium oxilate stone challenges. It
answers those questions I pose those and many many others.
It answers those questions for the customer. That also includes
one hundred and twenty five delicious recipes that are low
and oxalate sugar and salt. A lot of times physicians
don't tell you they talk about the oxalates, but if
(12:37):
you're susceptible to stones, you also have to manage your
sugar and salt intake. So all these recipes are low
and oxylate sugar and salt. But it also provides a
nutritional fact panel. It has a full color picture of
what the recipe should look like.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
When it's done.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
And why am I mentioned all this well, it helps
the person get on the right path to manage their
calcium oxalate stones. When you talk about aolocks of te's
here again, as you mentioned your questions about lifestyle, what
are the major things you have to give up when
you have stones? Things with high oxylates. Teas are one
of those. So what we did is we crafted teas
(13:14):
that are specifically low in oxalates. It's great, we go
a step further, we actually send the batches out to
outside laboratory. It's not just done by us. That verifies
that these batches are low and oxylate meat low minimum
oxilate standards. Now these teas still have oxalates. You can't
drink gallons of the tea every day, but you can
have a cup or two every day and get back
to enjoying life. That's what we're trying to do for
(13:35):
these these customers that are faced with these very painful
Kinney stones.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
So what's next? A lot of exciting developments already, but
what's really next for calcium oxylate Labs? Are there any
new innovations or partnerships you want to tell us about some.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
We do have some new innovations and I wish I
could share, I really do, but it's important that we're
able to patent file patents and trademarks. I can explain
that if you like, but that's important, and so until
I do that, I really can't get into the details
some new products. But we do have some new products
coming and they'll they'll continue to come in. I can
I can promise you that as far as new partnerships
(14:11):
that type of thing, we're our products sold. Knney Copp
is sold through Amazon dot com, Walmart dot com, a
Kenney cop dot com. You say, well, what about CBS
and Walgreens and those type of big box pharmacy stores.
We purposely didn't, well we I can't say we didn't
go to them. We talked to them, but we purposely
didn't distribute our product through those channels because they don't
(14:34):
have a Kenney Healthcare section in the plantogram.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
Think about it.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
I asked your listeners. Next time you go on one
of those stores and nothing. Instant stores are great stores,
but they don't have a Kenney Health section. There wasn't
enough products to help a section, so you end up
spending millions of dollars to load those stores, put product
in and where's randomle your random mile maybe one one
row of product it gets lost. So my whole life
(14:58):
was spent in that arena. So they just didn't want
to do that. Until they're talking about doing that. There's
been some other products for Kinney Health, so that may
happen down the road, and we'll be there if that happens,
but at this point we decided not to do what
I like to do and we're working on it now.
But didn't happen is get into those club box stores,
like I say, like a costco and you say why
is that, Well, you have a whole skid, you have
(15:20):
a lot more square footage, but more importantly, you have
the skid wrapped with advertising, so you get the person
walks by. Remember one and eleven people coming through that store.
I don't really talk about that, but one of eleven
people in the United States get Kenney stones. Wow, that's
over thirty million people. Eighty percent of those twenty four
million or get calcium oxolate stones. So you know one
(15:42):
of them people walking through those stores is going to
have Kenney stones. If they can see that skirt wrapped
around the pallett, it draws into there to the palette,
and if they pick up our bottle, there's a wealth
of information about Kenney stones. So we would move products.
That's something that I'd like to see happen in a
very near future. So, not to go back to your question,
I end up talking too much here. But no, all good,
(16:05):
but we have new products coming. We'd like to get
some new distribution. But hey, with our products. Now, as
they mentioned, there's twenty four million people with calcium oxide stones.
We service hundreds of thousands, so we made a dent,
but we still have a long way to go.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
Absolutely, that's exciting stuff. Excited to see you guys continue
to grow. And obviously we've talked a lot about the
positives right, a lot about the positive growth, being able
to create this amazing company. But I'm sure along the
way there may have been some challenges or roadbumps as well.
What were some of the biggest challenges you face when
you were launching the company and what were the lessons
(16:38):
you learned from those?
Speaker 2 (16:39):
Well, Well, one of one of the biggest challenges. First
of all, when we started, we didn't know we're going
to find a solution. So you're applying a lot of funds,
you're doing a lot of research, you have no idea
that you're going to end up being able to solve
the challenge. We were able to do that successfully, which
is great. But then when you do that, you have
(17:00):
to file patents. That takes time and energy. You have
to come up with a name. And so many companies
I see it. They come out it's a name, they
have a friend that a grandmother or somebody that reminded
that they apply a name, which is may be great,
but it's not good from a marketing standpoint. Because we
have a fifteen second AD, thirty second AD, sixty second AD.
(17:20):
If nothing else, you wanted to remember the name, So
you have kidney cop easy to remember. Yep, you put
that in Google. Then we're going to be the first
four pages. So that's important. But you have to also
have to be able to trademark that name. You're going
to ask me, what's the matter. You've got a solution
to product, why do you care? If you can patent
a trademark. I'll give you a live example. We're growing exponentially,
(17:41):
so then competitors or so called competitors come out of
the woodwork. We actually had people selling kidney cop our name,
our label, our bottle.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
Oh my gosh, using the trademark name. That's crazy counterfeiters.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
We ordered the product. First of all, it comes, it's
not our bottle, it's smaller. The label's not the same,
but more important the product in size, not even the
product it should be.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
That's crazy.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
Who knows you could kill somebody. I don't know that,
but it could harm somebody. But it's crazy. So if
you don't, if you're in a healthcare arena, if you
don't have patents or trademark, you got to be extremely
careful for a liability standpoint. More important, worry about your
customers and they have no way of really telling, So
it's be who's us to manage that. We do that
on a daily basis. Without patents of trademarks, we couldn't
(18:27):
get them off the market. And then where you sell that,
they also have responsibility. Like the Amazons and Walmarts of
the world, they have to police.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Yeah, those counterfeits aren't very much, so that.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
Was that was a big challenge. And then also the
smaller company, then you have to look at when you
got a solution, you got the patent, you got the trademark. Okay,
who you're going to sell to. You can't go out
and advertise the world. It's going to be very, very expensive.
So you have to really define when we are demographics,
who's going to be the primary people going to be
(18:58):
interested in your product. In our case, it's adults forty
five to seventy five years of age, men and women.
But then you got to look at the media mix
how are you going to get there? Like, iHeart does
a great job and I'm not just say you didn't
ask me to say this, but you do a great
job and you can define those demographics and the things
you do, which is wonderful, but you still have to say,
(19:19):
do you use TV, do you use radio, do you
social media? What's the mix of each? And look those
the companies that you work with have lots of information,
but it's still try and error. So a big part
of any new company, whether it's in healthcare or any
other type of product, you really need to be property
finance and funded to start out or you're gonna have
(19:40):
a real challenge going direct to the consumer.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
It's very interesting.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
I'll be glad to hear about the iHeart part, so
thank you for that. I always love to asking this
question for everyone that sits down for this interview, and
it's what advice do you wish you had back then
when you were first starting the company. If someone's tuning
in that's thinking about taking that leap from working in
corporate America, is starting their own company, or they want
to be an entrepreneur and they have an idea in
(20:04):
their head that they want to make to life, what
advice would you give them.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
Well, this isn't going to be unique, but it doesn't
have to be unique. If you're going to sell something
in the marketplace, Number one, there has to be a real.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
Problem or challenge.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
That's true.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
You have to find a real solution, and then you'll
see like go online, now you'll find all these products,
but there's not really does it really work. It Coming
from the prescription side of the pharmaceutical side of the business,
it's all about having data and having product that really works.
I said, our product, you know the five ingredients, we
(20:42):
all have human clinical trials. We did all the one
hundred hundred of tests in the lab where we got
the ninety nine percent inhibition.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
So the product really works.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
So if you're going to go into a product, particularly
in healthcare, you better have a product that works. And
then it has to be well, how big is the market.
People say, oh, they think they got it, this great product,
but if the market's not big, e really can't scale it.
So you have to be able to scale where you
can actually manufacture at a reasonable cost, then be able
to provide the product at a reasonable cost. If it's
(21:11):
too expensive, you're not gonna sell enough, not gonna pay
You're gonna end up going out of business you can't
make enough money. So there's some of the big challenges
that we face.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
But we were able to.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
You know, we end up our products made in an
cGMP F, the approved manufacturing facility. We didn't cut any corners.
A lot of companies out there do. But like a
product the company we deal with makes prescription drugs. It's
that background. We came from a revery conservative we're going
to do it the right way, and we just truly
(21:41):
wanted to. It's sincere. We want to help the customer,
right I it's sincere from me.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
You can tell from our conversation today, absolutely, and that's
great advice for anyone that's tuning in.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
So we covered a lot we did.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
But if there was one thing you wanted our listeners
to take away about the mission of the company, what
would that be, Well.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
I would say, first of all, if you're one of
the millions and millions of people that have calcium oxilate
stone challenges, you have a solution now.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
See, you really check out kinnycomp dot com. It has
a wealth of information. Whether you buy the product or not,
there's a wealth of information there how to manage calcium
oxilate stones. So I always really encourage people to go there.
And you can go to Amazon dot com, at Walmart
dot com, and they're wonderful companies, and we do a
lot of sales and those companies.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
And it has information, but you're limited how much information
you can put on those sites.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
So really, if you go to knny coomp dot com,
you're gonna really find a lot of information to help
you manage those calcium oxolate stones.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
That's great, Well, Gregory, thank you for being here today.
We really appreciate you taking us through their journey but
also most importantly telling us more about the company.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Well, once again, thank you for having me. And I
can tell you one thing you can do. Sure you
have a vast audience and wonderful audience, by the way,
you really do. I mean, I love light Heart some
of the shows I personally listened to on a record basis.
But you're so large. We could help so many people.
(23:08):
If this interview goes viral, Okay, let's do it. I
say it in jess, but not it really in all sincerity.
You have the ability to do that. And if I
can help people, I haven't taken a penny out of
the company. I've been in, beeniness for years. If I'm
in a situation, can we sold the mentioned eariler euro Pharma.
They can give back. I have not taken a penny
out of the company. I want to put the money
back in the company to help as many people as possible.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
That's amazing.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
So if really, if we could get this to go viral,
we would help so many people. I mean there's literally
twenty four million people out there that don't know there's
a solution out there.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Yeah, and if you're one of them, or if you
know someone that knows someone, go to kidney cop dot com.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
Thank you very much, Steve, appreciate.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Thank you so much for being here today. We really
appreciate it, and thank you all for tuning in. Tune
in next week for next week's edition of CEOs you
should know.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
Thanks again,
Hi everyone, this is Steve Alisana. Welcome to this week's
edition of CEOs. You should know I'm thrilled to be
joined by Gregory Hayer, the CEO of calcium Oxidate Labs,
the maker of kidney cop Gregory, thanks for being here today.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Thank you, Steve for having me in all your colleagues.
I mean, I really appreciate, I mean it sincerely for
inviting us here today.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Absolutely. Well, we're excited to learn more about you and
of course the company. So I know, to kick it off,
why don't we talk a little bit about your backstory.
I know you had a long, successful career at URL
Pharma before founding Calcium Oxalate Labs. What inspired you to
make that leap from corporate executive role to really starting
your own company.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Well, I enjoy my time in a corporate world. I
spent thirty four years in the corporate world. Twenty nine
of those years were there a company called URL Pharma.
The five years prior to that, I worked for a
pharmaceutical division of.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Jay and Jay. Very nice.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
It gave me a wealth of experience in training, but
the entrepreneurial spirit went out and I made the leap
to UL Pharma. And at the time it was a
very small company, only doing about sixteen million dollars a year.
And I say entrepreneurial, but I didn't own the company,
so it wasn't really a full entrepreneurial move. But every
(01:13):
single employee had a piece of the company, had stock
in the stock in the company, so we I loaned
my colleagues. We built that company from sixteen million dollars
in annual sales to over five hundred and fifty million dollars.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
That's incredible.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
And we sold that company then to Taketa for eight
hundred million plus contingencies. So from the entrepreneurial side, every
single employee got a nice check when we sold the company,
and then we had contingencies built in, so as long
as the patents held for the products that that CADA
was interested in, they all received a check year after year.
So that was a wonderful thing from an entrepreneurial standpoint.
(01:51):
But you'll say, why did I start Calcium Oxylate Labs
and Kennystone Research Company. Well, right at the time when
we were negotiating that sale to the CATA, I succumbed
to another bout with Kinney Stones, and I had quite
a few bouts with Kinney stones through the years. In fact,
my first one was in my twenties during Super Bowl Sunday.
(02:11):
Oh my gosh, that's a whole nother story. But anyway,
I had several bouts with Kenney stones, and so now
I'm retired, and so I think, this have.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
To be a better way.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Because what physicians are eurologists to frologists tell you when
you get your first bout with Kinney stones is that hey,
drink lots of water and change your diet to low
oxolate diet. I did those things, I still kept getting stones.
So I just said, there has to be a better way.
And I was very blessed. I sent my whole life career,
(02:43):
so to speak, in the pharmaceutical world. So I ended
up having lots of friends with doctors, pharmacists, scientific researchers,
and best of all, I had a friend who was
a doctor trained in urology, a pharmacist, and a scientific researcher.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
In fact, he developed many prescription drugs that your listeners
utilize today. So we started researching the world for clinical
studies to find out what was done to really help
those people with calcium oxillate stone. Challenges and we found
some promising information and basically we said, hey, let's move forward.
We started focus and trying to do everything we can
(03:24):
to come up with a solution to help these people
with calc oximate stone challenges and we were successful.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
That's awesome. Well, it sounds like your own personal experience
kind of inspired you to create the company it is today. Right,
So I know that for a brief moment you were
retired after Urel Pharma was sold. That didn't last long obviously.
What was it that during this experience with kidney stones
and doing that research in that background that really ignited
(03:53):
you to take that next step to create the company itself?
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Well, as I mentioned earlier, had many bounts with any stones,
and as I mentioned, the doctors tell you drink lots
of water and what's that that's basically six eight ounce
glasses of water spread throughout the day, and to consume
a low oxalate diet.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
But they don't give you much more information. So what
do you do?
Speaker 2 (04:16):
You know, I start looking, like most people do, you
go online and start looking into diets, and I started
looking at my own diet and I said, okay, I
eat a lot of spinach salads. I love spinach salads.
Healthy for you, right, I think super high in oxalates.
I love dice tea super high in oxalates A real no. No,
(04:38):
I love nuts. Many nuts are super high in oxalates.
You see all the advertisements for red beats are healthy,
not good if you're susceptible to getting stones. Read this
is one of the highest vegetables with regards to oxalates.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
So you get the ideas.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
It's very hard to follow every day a low oxalate
diet day out. So I try to, but just didn't
work for me. So we really started researching, as I
mentioned earlier, and we even found that a prescription drug
that's already been approved to fight kenney stones, He said,
saying to myself, why don't they describe.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
This for me?
Speaker 2 (05:17):
For me, Well, your your research. It's it's called your
set K. The acting ingredients potassium citrate very high. It's
a very high dose of potassium citrate.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Well what happens?
Speaker 2 (05:29):
I mean, it works, but a lot of people get
gas tun intestinal problems taking the product. And for those
who have maybe hard conditions, you're going to find some
muscle uh weakness. They can get your regular heartbeat and
severe cases even cardiac arrest. So there's some side effect
issues that a lot of doctors just don't prescribe the products,
(05:49):
so they revert back to something they know that helps.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Drink lots of water.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
I mean, think about it, and I'm going to really
simplify the Kenny's like a test to get lots of
fluid going through the kenney. That does help, There's quite
no question about that. But they try to switch to
a low oxolate diet, but as I mentioned it, it's
so hard to follow. So we just thought there had
to be a better way. So we started researching around
the world as I mentioned, and we did lots of
(06:16):
testing of our own, and the bottom line is we
developed the product that works. It has five It's called
Kidney coop Calcium Oxalate Protector. It is five active ingredients.
Every one of these ingredients are a combination of them
have human clinical trials that show have a positive effect
and inhibiting calcium oxolate crystal growth.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
We took these.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Five ingredients, combined them, we optimized the form, the combination
and the strengths. We get ninety nine percent inhibition in
the growth rate of calcium oxolate crystals. You know, we
actually grew the crystals in the laboratory, So we could
have taken this product, you know, prescription, but we didn't.
But as I said, we got this ninety nine percent inhibition.
(06:58):
There's not another company world that can make that claim.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
It's processed. So, as I said, with a.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
You know, a word of five US patents, we could
have taken the prescription route. But at my age, and
it's cost you to go to the prescription route would
have taken a lot of years. But because we had
safe ingredients, we could take it right to market.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
I wanted to do that, and that's what we chose
to do.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
That's great. Now, let's talk a little bit about your
leadership style as a leader. I know that you emphasize
caring and integrity as two of your core leadership values.
How do those principles really translate into how you lead
your team and you even interact with your day to
day customers.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Well, by the time I can remember, I've always expressed
to managers, my colleagues, my friends.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
And I really really believe this.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
I've learned this through the years that you can't make
a person care, it comes from within.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
We can discuss how that happens if it's you know
your your your you grew up what you're exposed to
in life. But at the end of the day, I
find you can't make a person care. The same with integrity.
Integrity is very, very important. I've always told all my managers,
even my children, integrity is something no one can take
away from you.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
Yep. So in our company, we try.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
To hire people and retain people that care. As they said,
you can't make a person care, but we want these
people that care about the customer, want to do the
best at everything that they do. I can tell you this,
I much rather hire a person that they have to
have to be smart and capability, But I much rather
(08:39):
hire a person maybe it doesn't have much as much experience,
maybe as much education that cares, versus someone who checks
all the boxes. Wonderful education, lots of training, but doesn't care.
I'm telling you, as a company, you'll go much further
because you can always teach an other person. But if
you have a person that cares, that's going to make
a big difference for your company and for your customers.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
And I think that also translate into really like your team, right,
you want to make sure that they care about the
customers as well. How do you make sure that you
continue that thought process that you have as one of
your core values to all the employees within it. I
know that you've mentioned like it's not something that necessarily
people have in them, But if they don't have them
in them, how you're really en fostering your team to
(09:20):
continue to do so?
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Well, it's every day in our company we emphasize how
much we want to help the customer solve their calcium
oxylate stone challenges. But like you say, based on your question,
how do you facilitate that, Well, we foster that based
on the policies we have within the company. The customers
(09:42):
always number one. Well, you can say that, but what
do you do? What kind of policies do you have
in place? Well, we pick, for example, a product one
hundred percent no returns, does not matter at all customer service,
You speak with a live human could it'd be a
lot less expensive for me to have an automated system.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Does a system care for you?
Speaker 2 (10:01):
No? When you call our company, you speak with a
live person. They know the business inside and out. They
know about calcium oxilate stone challenges and they're going to
do everything possible to try to help you. To me,
that makes a big difference. We have a customer something
else we do. We have a customer financial assistance program.
You want to talk about caring for customer. There's not
(10:22):
another supplement company that I know of in a world
that provides, like some of the prescription brand companies to
patient assistance programs.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
We offer our customer assistance program. If you cannot.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Afford you really strapped, can't afford a product, we provide
a product free to the customer every single month. I
don't know any other supplier does that in the marketplace.
We we just don't state it. We how we act,
what we do is all based on trying to help
that customer solve their calcium oxilate stone challenges.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Yeah, you guys are a living example of really having
that mission of not just helping people prevent kidney stones,
but also improving their quality of life. I know it's
some other initiatives you have is like your your your cookbook,
and you also have teas that are really expanding into
lifestyle support. What role does the education of that overall
strategy really play and helping maintain people's lifestyles.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Well, information, or I should say that the correct information
is the most important thing you can possibly obtain in
order to manage your calcium oxalate stones. When you first
get a stone, I mentioned the doctors drink lots of
what are those six hages ounce bests of water per day,
spread throughout the day, and consume a low oxolate diet. Well,
(11:37):
what's the low oxalate diet? In other words, you have
to know it's not just a diet. How many how
much OXOLATETIONH I consume every day? What foods? There's thousands
of foods. How much oxalates all in all those foods?
Speaker 3 (11:53):
I think?
Speaker 2 (11:54):
I take calcium, especially if you get you're more senior,
take a calcium succulent? Do I keep taking that every day?
These are all types of questions that anyone who ever
had a Kinney stone asks themselves to try to manage
the calcium oxylate stone challenges. Well, I decided to write
a book called the Ultimate Low Oxalate Diet Cookbook, but
it's much more in a cookbook. The first twenty pages
(12:16):
are all about managing your calcium oxilate stone challenges. It
answers those questions I pose those and many many others.
It answers those questions for the customer. That also includes
one hundred and twenty five delicious recipes that are low
and oxalate sugar and salt. A lot of times physicians
don't tell you they talk about the oxalates, but if
(12:37):
you're susceptible to stones, you also have to manage your
sugar and salt intake. So all these recipes are low
and oxylate sugar and salt. But it also provides a
nutritional fact panel. It has a full color picture of
what the recipe should look like.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
When it's done.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
And why am I mentioned all this well, it helps
the person get on the right path to manage their
calcium oxalate stones. When you talk about aolocks of te's
here again, as you mentioned your questions about lifestyle, what
are the major things you have to give up when
you have stones? Things with high oxylates. Teas are one
of those. So what we did is we crafted teas
(13:14):
that are specifically low in oxalates. It's great, we go
a step further, we actually send the batches out to
outside laboratory. It's not just done by us. That verifies
that these batches are low and oxylate meat low minimum
oxilate standards. Now these teas still have oxalates. You can't
drink gallons of the tea every day, but you can
have a cup or two every day and get back
to enjoying life. That's what we're trying to do for
(13:35):
these these customers that are faced with these very painful
Kinney stones.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
So what's next? A lot of exciting developments already, but
what's really next for calcium oxylate Labs? Are there any
new innovations or partnerships you want to tell us about some.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
We do have some new innovations and I wish I
could share, I really do, but it's important that we're
able to patent file patents and trademarks. I can explain
that if you like, but that's important, and so until
I do that, I really can't get into the details
some new products. But we do have some new products
coming and they'll they'll continue to come in. I can
I can promise you that as far as new partnerships
(14:11):
that type of thing, we're our products sold. Knney Copp
is sold through Amazon dot com, Walmart dot com, a
Kenney cop dot com. You say, well, what about CBS
and Walgreens and those type of big box pharmacy stores.
We purposely didn't, well we I can't say we didn't
go to them. We talked to them, but we purposely
didn't distribute our product through those channels because they don't
(14:34):
have a Kenney Healthcare section in the plantogram.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
Think about it.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
I asked your listeners. Next time you go on one
of those stores and nothing. Instant stores are great stores,
but they don't have a Kenney Health section. There wasn't
enough products to help a section, so you end up
spending millions of dollars to load those stores, put product
in and where's randomle your random mile maybe one one
row of product it gets lost. So my whole life
(14:58):
was spent in that arena. So they just didn't want
to do that. Until they're talking about doing that. There's
been some other products for Kinney Health, so that may
happen down the road, and we'll be there if that happens,
but at this point we decided not to do what
I like to do and we're working on it now.
But didn't happen is get into those club box stores,
like I say, like a costco and you say why
is that, Well, you have a whole skid, you have
(15:20):
a lot more square footage, but more importantly, you have
the skid wrapped with advertising, so you get the person
walks by. Remember one and eleven people coming through that store.
I don't really talk about that, but one of eleven
people in the United States get Kenney stones. Wow, that's
over thirty million people. Eighty percent of those twenty four
million or get calcium oxolate stones. So you know one
(15:42):
of them people walking through those stores is going to
have Kenney stones. If they can see that skirt wrapped
around the pallett, it draws into there to the palette,
and if they pick up our bottle, there's a wealth
of information about Kenney stones. So we would move products.
That's something that I'd like to see happen in a
very near future. So, not to go back to your question,
I end up talking too much here. But no, all good,
(16:05):
but we have new products coming. We'd like to get
some new distribution. But hey, with our products. Now, as
they mentioned, there's twenty four million people with calcium oxide stones.
We service hundreds of thousands, so we made a dent,
but we still have a long way to go.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
Absolutely, that's exciting stuff. Excited to see you guys continue
to grow. And obviously we've talked a lot about the
positives right, a lot about the positive growth, being able
to create this amazing company. But I'm sure along the
way there may have been some challenges or roadbumps as well.
What were some of the biggest challenges you face when
you were launching the company and what were the lessons
(16:38):
you learned from those?
Speaker 2 (16:39):
Well, Well, one of one of the biggest challenges. First
of all, when we started, we didn't know we're going
to find a solution. So you're applying a lot of funds,
you're doing a lot of research, you have no idea
that you're going to end up being able to solve
the challenge. We were able to do that successfully, which
is great. But then when you do that, you have
(17:00):
to file patents. That takes time and energy. You have
to come up with a name. And so many companies
I see it. They come out it's a name, they
have a friend that a grandmother or somebody that reminded
that they apply a name, which is may be great,
but it's not good from a marketing standpoint. Because we
have a fifteen second AD, thirty second AD, sixty second AD.
(17:20):
If nothing else, you wanted to remember the name, So
you have kidney cop easy to remember. Yep, you put
that in Google. Then we're going to be the first
four pages. So that's important. But you have to also
have to be able to trademark that name. You're going
to ask me, what's the matter. You've got a solution
to product, why do you care? If you can patent
a trademark. I'll give you a live example. We're growing exponentially,
(17:41):
so then competitors or so called competitors come out of
the woodwork. We actually had people selling kidney cop our name,
our label, our bottle.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
Oh my gosh, using the trademark name. That's crazy counterfeiters.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
We ordered the product. First of all, it comes, it's
not our bottle, it's smaller. The label's not the same,
but more important the product in size, not even the
product it should be.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
That's crazy.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
Who knows you could kill somebody. I don't know that,
but it could harm somebody. But it's crazy. So if
you don't, if you're in a healthcare arena, if you
don't have patents or trademark, you got to be extremely
careful for a liability standpoint. More important, worry about your
customers and they have no way of really telling, So
it's be who's us to manage that. We do that
on a daily basis. Without patents of trademarks, we couldn't
(18:27):
get them off the market. And then where you sell that,
they also have responsibility. Like the Amazons and Walmarts of
the world, they have to police.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Yeah, those counterfeits aren't very much, so that.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
Was that was a big challenge. And then also the
smaller company, then you have to look at when you
got a solution, you got the patent, you got the trademark. Okay,
who you're going to sell to. You can't go out
and advertise the world. It's going to be very, very expensive.
So you have to really define when we are demographics,
who's going to be the primary people going to be
(18:58):
interested in your product. In our case, it's adults forty
five to seventy five years of age, men and women.
But then you got to look at the media mix
how are you going to get there? Like, iHeart does
a great job and I'm not just say you didn't
ask me to say this, but you do a great
job and you can define those demographics and the things
you do, which is wonderful, but you still have to say,
(19:19):
do you use TV, do you use radio, do you
social media? What's the mix of each? And look those
the companies that you work with have lots of information,
but it's still try and error. So a big part
of any new company, whether it's in healthcare or any
other type of product, you really need to be property
finance and funded to start out or you're gonna have
(19:40):
a real challenge going direct to the consumer.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
It's very interesting.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
I'll be glad to hear about the iHeart part, so
thank you for that. I always love to asking this
question for everyone that sits down for this interview, and
it's what advice do you wish you had back then
when you were first starting the company. If someone's tuning
in that's thinking about taking that leap from working in
corporate America, is starting their own company, or they want
to be an entrepreneur and they have an idea in
(20:04):
their head that they want to make to life, what
advice would you give them.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
Well, this isn't going to be unique, but it doesn't
have to be unique. If you're going to sell something
in the marketplace, Number one, there has to be a real.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
Problem or challenge.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
That's true.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
You have to find a real solution, and then you'll
see like go online, now you'll find all these products,
but there's not really does it really work. It Coming
from the prescription side of the pharmaceutical side of the business,
it's all about having data and having product that really works.
I said, our product, you know the five ingredients, we
(20:42):
all have human clinical trials. We did all the one
hundred hundred of tests in the lab where we got
the ninety nine percent inhibition.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
So the product really works.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
So if you're going to go into a product, particularly
in healthcare, you better have a product that works. And
then it has to be well, how big is the market.
People say, oh, they think they got it, this great product,
but if the market's not big, e really can't scale it.
So you have to be able to scale where you
can actually manufacture at a reasonable cost, then be able
to provide the product at a reasonable cost. If it's
(21:11):
too expensive, you're not gonna sell enough, not gonna pay
You're gonna end up going out of business you can't
make enough money. So there's some of the big challenges
that we face.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
But we were able to.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
You know, we end up our products made in an
cGMP F, the approved manufacturing facility. We didn't cut any corners.
A lot of companies out there do. But like a
product the company we deal with makes prescription drugs. It's
that background. We came from a revery conservative we're going
to do it the right way, and we just truly
(21:41):
wanted to. It's sincere. We want to help the customer,
right I it's sincere from me.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
You can tell from our conversation today, absolutely, and that's
great advice for anyone that's tuning in.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
So we covered a lot we did.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
But if there was one thing you wanted our listeners
to take away about the mission of the company, what
would that be, Well.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
I would say, first of all, if you're one of
the millions and millions of people that have calcium oxilate
stone challenges, you have a solution now.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
See, you really check out kinnycomp dot com. It has
a wealth of information. Whether you buy the product or not,
there's a wealth of information there how to manage calcium
oxilate stones. So I always really encourage people to go there.
And you can go to Amazon dot com, at Walmart
dot com, and they're wonderful companies, and we do a
lot of sales and those companies.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
And it has information, but you're limited how much information
you can put on those sites.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
So really, if you go to knny coomp dot com,
you're gonna really find a lot of information to help
you manage those calcium oxolate stones.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
That's great, Well, Gregory, thank you for being here today.
We really appreciate you taking us through their journey but
also most importantly telling us more about the company.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Well, once again, thank you for having me. And I
can tell you one thing you can do. Sure you
have a vast audience and wonderful audience, by the way,
you really do. I mean, I love light Heart some
of the shows I personally listened to on a record basis.
But you're so large. We could help so many people.
(23:08):
If this interview goes viral, Okay, let's do it. I
say it in jess, but not it really in all sincerity.
You have the ability to do that. And if I
can help people, I haven't taken a penny out of
the company. I've been in, beeniness for years. If I'm
in a situation, can we sold the mentioned eariler euro Pharma.
They can give back. I have not taken a penny
out of the company. I want to put the money
back in the company to help as many people as possible.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
That's amazing.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
So if really, if we could get this to go viral,
we would help so many people. I mean there's literally
twenty four million people out there that don't know there's
a solution out there.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Yeah, and if you're one of them, or if you
know someone that knows someone, go to kidney cop dot com.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
Thank you very much, Steve, appreciate.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Thank you so much for being here today. We really
appreciate it, and thank you all for tuning in. Tune
in next week for next week's edition of CEOs you
should know.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
Thanks again,
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