Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Check with Chip, brought to you by Operation
Blue Dot Red, Turning the Blue Dot Red one podcast
at a time, the President and the Pope tangled over
the war in Iran. Pope Leo said the continued attacks
on Iran were evidence of quote idolatry of self and
money end quote and a quote delusion of omnipotence end quote.
(00:24):
Trump responded by calling Leo weak on crime and terrible
on foreign policy. Another by product was a meme of
Trump looking like Jesus. Trump claimed to be a doctor.
I don't know. I think I have to differ with
the President on that one. He looks like Jesus in
a white robe with a red stole, bathed in divine light,
(00:47):
seemingly reaching out to cure, or at least comfort a
sick man. Some Christians were very upset by that image.
They found it offensive, even sacrilegious. Next time I'm in
the box, I may need to confess that I find
Trump religious memes funny. The heart of humor is contrast.
(01:09):
The more absurd or impossible something is generally the funnier
it is. After Pope Francis died, memes surfaced of Trump
in papal regalia as the next pope. Trump even mused
at a press conference that he might like to be
the next Pope. To me, the combination of Trump's larger
than life persona and the absurdity of the idea make
(01:32):
it hilarious. But I want to focus on Leo's rebuttal
to Trump. Bear in mind the left is eating this
up and egging Leo on. Leo is giving the media
dream sound bites. I'm not afraid of Trump. I won't
stop speaking the truth. The first American pope sticking it
(01:52):
to a Christian American president. It's almost enough to make
believers out of those leftist atheists exploiting the pope to
serve their anti Trump agenda. The money quotation from Leo
was to put my message on the same plane as
what the President has attempted to do here. I think
(02:13):
is not understanding what the message of the gospel is. No,
Holy Father, you can't have it both ways. You can't
weigh in on political topics and then say my message
is on a higher moral and spiritual plane above the
kind of worldly political messages Trump puts out. I am
(02:35):
not engaging directly with him. I'm operating on a higher plane,
and I do not have to engage with him or
anyone else. That's what it sounds like to me anyway.
And you can't have it both ways in terms of
getting specific and personal, accusing Trump of attacking around defeat
his ego and his sense of omnipotence, and then say,
(02:58):
but I'm not being or contentious. I'm simply reflecting the
Gospel on a higher plane than the depraved megalomaniac I'm criticizing. Well, hey,
mister Catholic, I thought the pope was infallible. How dare
you not bow to whatever he says? If the Pope
speaks ex cathedra. Cathedra is Latin for chair. If the
(03:23):
Pope speaks ex cathedra from the chair of Saint Peter
on a matter of faith and morals, that's it. I
have nothing more to say. That is a too s
Petras situation. Two s Petris, you are Peter. In that situation,
the Bishop of Rome gets the last word. But that's
(03:45):
happened only twice, according to some Catholic experts on the topic,
though others argue there are a dozen or so other
pronouncements that qualify as infallible. Statements. Even if we go
to the high side of the estimate, it averages out
to about twice every three centuries. So it's not common.
(04:06):
Even if a pope is not speaking infallibly, I'll defer
to him on matters of faith and morals. But if
you're going to claim, as Leo seems to, that every
one of your political statements is a statement on a
matter of faith and morals on that higher spiritual plane,
then you're trashing your own authority. If a pope is
(04:28):
going to lean into all manner of political issues and
then declare that everything is about faith and morals, then
nothing is about faith and morals. There's no distinction, no
degree of difference in importance or subject matter. Whether Jesus
was fully human and fully divine, whether Mary was the
Mother of God, the nature of divine grace and how
(04:50):
it operates in the world, these are matters of a
different type and importance compared to tax or immigration policies.
Is of course an ultimate issue of life and death,
but there have been occasions when God allowed and even
required lethal violence. So even on that issue, people drawing
(05:11):
from the same faith tradition can reach different conclusions on
political policies. As a political officeholder, I certainly drew from
my faith and moral beliefs to make laws on all
manner of issues. But colleagues who held basically the same
moral beliefs, including fellow Catholics, argued and voted differently than
(05:33):
I did on some issues. We all claimed to be
following the Gospel. Enemies tried to spring a political trap
on Jesus. They asked him if Jews should pay taxes
to their Roman occupiers. Say yes, and it sounds like
he sides politically with Rome. Say no, and it sounds
(05:55):
like he sides politically with the treasonous zealots who want
to overthrow Romanca occupiers. Either position was politically problematic. Jesus
asked to see a coin and asked whose image was
on it. Answer, Caesar's. Jesus said, render, unto Caesar, what
is Caesar's? And unto God what is God's? In modern language,
(06:19):
Jesus said, I didn't come here to wade into your
political conflicts. I'm here to make sure you render unto
God what is God's. I'm here to instruct you on
faith and morals. How you apply them to politics is
up to you. That's the approach I want popes to
take the world often looks to the Vatican for perspective
(06:40):
on what is happening in the world. Papal guidance can
be of great value if the pope stays in his
lane and avoids becoming too immersed in worldly politics. WHA,
what about abortion? The Catholic Church isn't shy about that one. Yes,
but it's not controversial for a pope to reiterate what
(07:02):
is in the Ten Commandments. The Ten Commandments are Western
civilization's original foundation of teaching on faith and morals. Don't
kill your own child fits squarely under the fifth commandment,
Thou shalt not kill, don't lie, don't steal, love God,
(07:22):
honor your parents, don't cheat sexually. These are matters of
faith and morals on which papal guidance is appropriate and vital.
I admit that I might find it easier to digest
papal jabs at Trump if there was balance. Maybe I
missed it. But have recent popes congratulated and thanked Trump
(07:45):
for his appointments to the Supreme Court that reversed the
court's mistaken position on abortion. Have they thanked him for
pardoning pro lifers persecuted by the Biden administration for peaceful
protests and forgetting the federal govern to quit spying on
and harassing Catholic parishes. Have they saluted him for championing
(08:07):
natural law on human sexuality and taking measures to counteract
attacks on child sexuality, fairness in women's sports and safety,
and dignity in women's private spaces. Did the Vaticans salute
Trump for his detailed statement celebrating the Feast of the
(08:27):
Immaculate Conception of Mary last December eighth. He went on
and on about Mary's role in Salvation history and in
American history, noting that in seventeen ninety two, Bishop John
Carroll of Maryland consecrated the nation to the Blessed Mother.
He noted the devotion to Mary of several great Americans,
(08:50):
Saints Elizabeth An Seton and Francis Xavior Cabrini, and the
legendary Venerable Bishop Fulton Sheen. He noted that in a
few more days, December twelfth, it would be the Feast
of our Lady of Guadalupe, a Marian devotion that quote
originated in the heart of Mexico. End quote. I thought
(09:11):
Trump hated Mexico and Mexicans. Here's a quotation from the
Feast of the Immaculate Conception statement, as we approach two
hundred and fifty years of glorious American independence, we acknowledge
and give thanks with total gratitude for Mary's role in
advancing peace, hope, and love in America and beyond our shores.
(09:36):
The statement concluded with the words of the Hail Mary prayer. So, no,
the recent tempest between the President and the Pope does
not affect my Catholic faith or my faith in the President.
We Catholics haven't had it this good since Reagan was
teeming up with Saint John Paul the Second to do
(09:57):
magnificent things for America and the world. I only wish
President Trump could have had a similar pope with whom
to partner instead of the two woke popes he's been dealt.
A woke pope is still the Vicar of Christ, the
successor of Peter, the Keeper of the Keys, the first
among equals as the Bishop of Rome. But modern popes
(10:18):
must be careful about throwing stones when they live in
a glass Apostolic palace. That's basically what Vice President J. D.
Vance said recently about Leo's tangle with Trump, and it's
what Vance and borders are. Tom Holman said a few
years ago, when Pope Francis criticized u S immigration policy,
the advice of Vance and Holman, both Catholics, was for
(10:41):
the Holy Father to stay focused on matters of church
doctrine and governance. In other words, come talk to us
after you have finished cleaning up the homosexual pedophile mess
that you covered up for decades, and stay out of
political issues on which apparently you are not fully and
reliably informed. Francis seemed oblivious then, and Leo seems oblivious
(11:04):
now to the profiles of the illegal immigrants being rounded
up and deported by the US. They echo the rhetoric
of anti ice zealots in Minneapolis and other places about
standing up for our neighbors. Then the profiles of the
people being detained appear on the screen, rapists, murderers, gang members,
(11:25):
drug dealers, human traffickers, and the names and faces of
their victims are shown. I don't know for sure, but
I think that's why Trump said Leo was soft on
crime or weak on crime. Leo also seems oblivious to
the threat posed to America Israel, the Middle East, and
(11:46):
the world by Iran under radical Islamic rule, especially when
it was on the verge of acquiring nuclear weapons. When
Leo says peace and blessed are the peacemakers, does he
mean cessation of hostilities, even if it allows the Islamic
extremists to reassert their dominance and resume terrorizing their own
(12:09):
people and the rest of us. What kind of peace
is that? True peace in the Bible, and in more
recent times such as World War Two, sometimes has required
peacemakers capable of doing lethal violence to create the conditions
for true peace. Why did millions of Iranians in Iran
(12:31):
and America and around the world burst out into the
streets celebrating when Iran's supreme leader was killed because they
believed that for the first time and forty seven years,
there might be a chance for true peace created by
American and Israeli military power. I hope this warrants quickly,
(12:54):
but it has to end rightly. It has to allow
a new day to dawn in Irria Ron. That is
what Pope Leo should be calling for and praying for.
That's check with Chip. I'm Chip Maxwell, Thank you for listening.
Welcome to Check with Chip, brought to you by Operation
Blue Dot Red, Turning the Blue Dot Red one podcast
at a time, the President and the Pope tangled over
the war in Iran. Pope Leo said the continued attacks
on Iran were evidence of quote idolatry of self and
money end quote and a quote delusion of omnipotence end quote.
(00:24):
Trump responded by calling Leo weak on crime and terrible
on foreign policy. Another by product was a meme of
Trump looking like Jesus. Trump claimed to be a doctor.
I don't know. I think I have to differ with
the President on that one. He looks like Jesus in
a white robe with a red stole, bathed in divine light,
(00:47):
seemingly reaching out to cure, or at least comfort a
sick man. Some Christians were very upset by that image.
They found it offensive, even sacrilegious. Next time I'm in
the box, I may need to confess that I find
Trump religious memes funny. The heart of humor is contrast.
(01:09):
The more absurd or impossible something is generally the funnier
it is. After Pope Francis died, memes surfaced of Trump
in papal regalia as the next pope. Trump even mused
at a press conference that he might like to be
the next Pope. To me, the combination of Trump's larger
than life persona and the absurdity of the idea make
(01:32):
it hilarious. But I want to focus on Leo's rebuttal
to Trump. Bear in mind the left is eating this
up and egging Leo on. Leo is giving the media
dream sound bites. I'm not afraid of Trump. I won't
stop speaking the truth. The first American pope sticking it
(01:52):
to a Christian American president. It's almost enough to make
believers out of those leftist atheists exploiting the pope to
serve their anti Trump agenda. The money quotation from Leo
was to put my message on the same plane as
what the President has attempted to do here. I think
(02:13):
is not understanding what the message of the gospel is. No,
Holy Father, you can't have it both ways. You can't
weigh in on political topics and then say my message
is on a higher moral and spiritual plane above the
kind of worldly political messages Trump puts out. I am
(02:35):
not engaging directly with him. I'm operating on a higher plane,
and I do not have to engage with him or
anyone else. That's what it sounds like to me anyway.
And you can't have it both ways in terms of
getting specific and personal, accusing Trump of attacking around defeat
his ego and his sense of omnipotence, and then say,
(02:58):
but I'm not being or contentious. I'm simply reflecting the
Gospel on a higher plane than the depraved megalomaniac I'm criticizing. Well, hey,
mister Catholic, I thought the pope was infallible. How dare
you not bow to whatever he says? If the Pope
speaks ex cathedra. Cathedra is Latin for chair. If the
(03:23):
Pope speaks ex cathedra from the chair of Saint Peter
on a matter of faith and morals, that's it. I
have nothing more to say. That is a too s
Petras situation. Two s Petris, you are Peter. In that situation,
the Bishop of Rome gets the last word. But that's
(03:45):
happened only twice, according to some Catholic experts on the topic,
though others argue there are a dozen or so other
pronouncements that qualify as infallible. Statements. Even if we go
to the high side of the estimate, it averages out
to about twice every three centuries. So it's not common.
(04:06):
Even if a pope is not speaking infallibly, I'll defer
to him on matters of faith and morals. But if
you're going to claim, as Leo seems to, that every
one of your political statements is a statement on a
matter of faith and morals on that higher spiritual plane,
then you're trashing your own authority. If a pope is
(04:28):
going to lean into all manner of political issues and
then declare that everything is about faith and morals, then
nothing is about faith and morals. There's no distinction, no
degree of difference in importance or subject matter. Whether Jesus
was fully human and fully divine, whether Mary was the
Mother of God, the nature of divine grace and how
(04:50):
it operates in the world, these are matters of a
different type and importance compared to tax or immigration policies.
Is of course an ultimate issue of life and death,
but there have been occasions when God allowed and even
required lethal violence. So even on that issue, people drawing
(05:11):
from the same faith tradition can reach different conclusions on
political policies. As a political officeholder, I certainly drew from
my faith and moral beliefs to make laws on all
manner of issues. But colleagues who held basically the same
moral beliefs, including fellow Catholics, argued and voted differently than
(05:33):
I did on some issues. We all claimed to be
following the Gospel. Enemies tried to spring a political trap
on Jesus. They asked him if Jews should pay taxes
to their Roman occupiers. Say yes, and it sounds like
he sides politically with Rome. Say no, and it sounds
(05:55):
like he sides politically with the treasonous zealots who want
to overthrow Romanca occupiers. Either position was politically problematic. Jesus
asked to see a coin and asked whose image was
on it. Answer, Caesar's. Jesus said, render, unto Caesar, what
is Caesar's? And unto God what is God's? In modern language,
(06:19):
Jesus said, I didn't come here to wade into your
political conflicts. I'm here to make sure you render unto
God what is God's. I'm here to instruct you on
faith and morals. How you apply them to politics is
up to you. That's the approach I want popes to
take the world often looks to the Vatican for perspective
(06:40):
on what is happening in the world. Papal guidance can
be of great value if the pope stays in his
lane and avoids becoming too immersed in worldly politics. WHA,
what about abortion? The Catholic Church isn't shy about that one. Yes,
but it's not controversial for a pope to reiterate what
(07:02):
is in the Ten Commandments. The Ten Commandments are Western
civilization's original foundation of teaching on faith and morals. Don't
kill your own child fits squarely under the fifth commandment,
Thou shalt not kill, don't lie, don't steal, love God,
(07:22):
honor your parents, don't cheat sexually. These are matters of
faith and morals on which papal guidance is appropriate and vital.
I admit that I might find it easier to digest
papal jabs at Trump if there was balance. Maybe I
missed it. But have recent popes congratulated and thanked Trump
(07:45):
for his appointments to the Supreme Court that reversed the
court's mistaken position on abortion. Have they thanked him for
pardoning pro lifers persecuted by the Biden administration for peaceful
protests and forgetting the federal govern to quit spying on
and harassing Catholic parishes. Have they saluted him for championing
(08:07):
natural law on human sexuality and taking measures to counteract
attacks on child sexuality, fairness in women's sports and safety,
and dignity in women's private spaces. Did the Vaticans salute
Trump for his detailed statement celebrating the Feast of the
(08:27):
Immaculate Conception of Mary last December eighth. He went on
and on about Mary's role in Salvation history and in
American history, noting that in seventeen ninety two, Bishop John
Carroll of Maryland consecrated the nation to the Blessed Mother.
He noted the devotion to Mary of several great Americans,
(08:50):
Saints Elizabeth An Seton and Francis Xavior Cabrini, and the
legendary Venerable Bishop Fulton Sheen. He noted that in a
few more days, December twelfth, it would be the Feast
of our Lady of Guadalupe, a Marian devotion that quote
originated in the heart of Mexico. End quote. I thought
(09:11):
Trump hated Mexico and Mexicans. Here's a quotation from the
Feast of the Immaculate Conception statement, as we approach two
hundred and fifty years of glorious American independence, we acknowledge
and give thanks with total gratitude for Mary's role in
advancing peace, hope, and love in America and beyond our shores.
(09:36):
The statement concluded with the words of the Hail Mary prayer. So, no,
the recent tempest between the President and the Pope does
not affect my Catholic faith or my faith in the President.
We Catholics haven't had it this good since Reagan was
teeming up with Saint John Paul the Second to do
(09:57):
magnificent things for America and the world. I only wish
President Trump could have had a similar pope with whom
to partner instead of the two woke popes he's been dealt.
A woke pope is still the Vicar of Christ, the
successor of Peter, the Keeper of the Keys, the first
among equals as the Bishop of Rome. But modern popes
(10:18):
must be careful about throwing stones when they live in
a glass Apostolic palace. That's basically what Vice President J. D.
Vance said recently about Leo's tangle with Trump, and it's
what Vance and borders are. Tom Holman said a few
years ago, when Pope Francis criticized u S immigration policy,
the advice of Vance and Holman, both Catholics, was for
(10:41):
the Holy Father to stay focused on matters of church
doctrine and governance. In other words, come talk to us
after you have finished cleaning up the homosexual pedophile mess
that you covered up for decades, and stay out of
political issues on which apparently you are not fully and
reliably informed. Francis seemed oblivious then, and Leo seems oblivious
(11:04):
now to the profiles of the illegal immigrants being rounded
up and deported by the US. They echo the rhetoric
of anti ice zealots in Minneapolis and other places about
standing up for our neighbors. Then the profiles of the
people being detained appear on the screen, rapists, murderers, gang members,
(11:25):
drug dealers, human traffickers, and the names and faces of
their victims are shown. I don't know for sure, but
I think that's why Trump said Leo was soft on
crime or weak on crime. Leo also seems oblivious to
the threat posed to America Israel, the Middle East, and
(11:46):
the world by Iran under radical Islamic rule, especially when
it was on the verge of acquiring nuclear weapons. When
Leo says peace and blessed are the peacemakers, does he
mean cessation of hostilities, even if it allows the Islamic
extremists to reassert their dominance and resume terrorizing their own
(12:09):
people and the rest of us. What kind of peace
is that? True peace in the Bible, and in more
recent times such as World War Two, sometimes has required
peacemakers capable of doing lethal violence to create the conditions
for true peace. Why did millions of Iranians in Iran
(12:31):
and America and around the world burst out into the
streets celebrating when Iran's supreme leader was killed because they
believed that for the first time and forty seven years,
there might be a chance for true peace created by
American and Israeli military power. I hope this warrants quickly,
(12:54):
but it has to end rightly. It has to allow
a new day to dawn in Irria Ron. That is
what Pope Leo should be calling for and praying for.
That's check with Chip. I'm Chip Maxwell, Thank you for listening.
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