May 13, 2026 • 14 mins
The President of the James Madison Institute shared his thoughts on some very trendy issues in Florida.
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Good a mates and welcome, ruminators, ladies and gentlemen, boys
and girls, males and females. Only to the second hour
of The Morning Show with Preston Scott Show fifty six
oh two. He's ose, I'm Preston and this is the
president of JMI, otherwise known as the James Madison Institute.
Doctor Bob McClure, Hello.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Sir, Hello sir. How are you doing this fine morning?
Speaker 1 (00:28):
You know, I'm good. I'm fascinated to hear your reaction
because everybody I've had on the show of late, I've
asked them their thoughts on the redistricting battle that's happening. Obviously,
I want your thoughts on what Florida has decided to do,
but just broadly, doctor McClure, your thoughts on what's happening nationwide.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Well, I think it is a product of the political
landscape really since Trump came on board in twenty sixteen,
and this is kind of just the men infestation of
that by both parties. So if we look at it
from ten thousand feet, that's kind of where we are.
We have kind of this brass knuckles fight over the
(01:11):
future of the House because if the Democrats take it back.
They will just gum up everything with investigation, and after investigation,
impeachment after impeachment. And we have a fighter in the
White House, whether you agree with him or not, he's,
you know, unlike George W. Bush or Mitt Romney or
John McCain, the two lost. He's not going to put
(01:33):
up with it. And so they're fighting across the country.
It's really hand to hand combat because just a few
seats will make a difference. And right now, given the
Virginia decision, the Missouri decision yesterday, the Republicans have the
upper hand and look to have some Republican leaning seats.
(01:56):
I'd say, you know, eight to ten possible seats. And
I'll add one more thing pressing about this. You know,
to paraphrase John Roberts, the way you don't discriminate based
on race is you don't discriminate based on race. And
these majority minority districts, I would argue, if you look
(02:17):
at the last election, Trump one tremendously with African American men,
with Hispanics, with blue collar African Americans. He moved every
demographic except white women towards him than the last election.
I would argue that that eliminating these majority minority districts
forces and this is a good thing. Republicans and Democrats
(02:41):
to fight for black votes in many of these districts
that are purplish slightly read when otherwise they never had
to fight for these votes. So now that means African
American voices will be heard, I would argue even more
so than they traditionally have.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
The argument has been that a lot of the redistricting
that was race based was done in the South, that
in the Northeast it was not done that way. That
in the Northeast, and maybe even California, districts were drawn
solely to eliminate Republican representation, regardless of how much of
(03:19):
the population was registered Republican or not. How do you
fix that if that's true.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Well, I think you draw, you know, districts that are
you know, rectangular or or you know square. In other words,
if I understand your question correctly, if you look at
New England, you have roughly in round numbers, forty to
forty to forty five percent of the voting public in
(03:47):
New England is Republican, and yet they don't have a
single House congressional member of the Republicans still and so
in the South, there's a historical component. There is the
the specter and the disgusting haunting of segregation and Jim
Crow and the Voting Rights Act, which was never designed
(04:12):
to set up majority minority districts. It was this is
this idea that somehow this is going to disenfranchise African
Americans from voting. That's that's not true. The Voting Rights
Act protects that. This is a completely separate issue. And
we had this notion that the Voting Rights Act was
(04:33):
somehow not notion. It was distorted in the courts through
guilt over segregation in Jim Crow, which was horrific stuff,
and it perverted the Voting Rights Act into establishing this
majority minority districts. The voting right, Voting Rights Act protects
everyone's African Americans ability to vote. That is a wholly
(04:57):
in separate issue, and it's being pervert by the left
to say somehow that this is a racist issue. Look
at the congressman from Memphis. He's white, he's a white male.
There's a very good chance that an African American woman
Republican could now win that seat. This is not about
race for the Democrats. For the left, this is about power.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
We have spoken at length about Florida property taxes and
what the future might look like. After talking with state
CFO Blazingolia back a few days ago, I'm under the
impression that what seems to be the most realistic is
some sort of glide slope to an abolition of property taxes.
What is your hunch in what you're hearing and what
(05:43):
you think is going to happen?
Speaker 2 (05:45):
I mean, you have to the CFO would know more
but than me, But I you know, I think there
is going to be a glidepath. I don't know. You know,
that's a very large general term glidepath. So what does
that mean? Is that a you know, an exemption that
has raised over time to seven fifty or a million dollars?
(06:08):
Don't I don't know the answer to that. I do
believe the governor is going to be bold and big
on this, and there's pressure building on the legislature. The
longer they wait, a lot of people are like, Oh,
what's the governor doing? He's waiting so long. I mean,
this is a smart man. He's been in office for
nearly eight years. He knows what he's doing, and I
think not having any insider knowledge. But I think he's
(06:31):
building the pressure on the legislature to do something big
and bold, whatever it is he reveals, because if they don't,
then they have to go home and face voters, and
that's going to be a real, real challenge for that legislature.
So I think it's going to be something big and bold.
I don't know what the final product's going to be,
probably some sort of exemption preston. My concern is, here's
(06:54):
my concern is that they have got to plug the bucket.
In other words, they're gonna just the local municipalities if
they don't do something at the legislative level level, they're
gonna they're gonna cost shift, and they're gonna cost shift
in other ways. We see it in this town all
the time, right with utilities, with the milite rates, with
(07:17):
you know, all of these different things, the sales, the
penny ha penny sales tax, all of that kind of stuff.
They're just gonna cost shift. So they need to make
sure that they find a way to plug the bucket
and not allow municipalities to just raise taxes in other areas.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
Yeah, I think that there's there's gonna have to be
some uh, some real work with the pencil and eraser
and and figuring out how this is gonna manifest itself.
I'm curious, do you do you personally think that they
can get away with just putting a cap on who's
going to get an exemption? Or would that be unconstitutional
(07:57):
to limit it? I mean, I get the idea of
being homesteaded properties only that you know your primary residence.
But is it possible for them to say okay, up
to a million dollars and just stop there? Wouldn't the
people that own a more expensive home say well why
not us?
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Well that's the danger. And the other danger is, well,
let's give it to only people who have paid off
their mortgage. Well why would people who haven't paid off
their mortgage vote for that? Or somebody over sixty or veterans.
I mean that this is this is the issue. It
needs to be simple, it needs to be understood, and
(08:36):
it needs to affect virtually all as many Floridians as possible.
That's what needs to happen. And so, you know, some
sort of exemption up to a million dollars, let's say.
I mean a lot of people are like, oh my gosh,
a million dollars. Well, a million dollars in a you know,
in Orlando is not as much as one thinks as
it is. And we're not talking about Tallahassee or Montase Madison,
(09:01):
So I don't know. I'm not advocating for a million.
But we've laid out a number of ways to do this,
and your your listeners can go to James Madison dot org.
We presented a study you know, about six months ago
on this issue. Lots of different options. The simplest way
for us, Preston, we think, is you could One thing
you could do is just cap spending at the local
(09:22):
level and roll it back three years. Just roll it
back to twenty twenty three and then cap spending and
then say you can only raise spending based on population
and index to inflation. And that protects rural counties, that
protects small counties, that protects large counties, and it takes
(09:44):
a hatchet to the ability of municipalities to spend like
drunken sailors. Just it's called a levy. Cap cap all spending,
roll it back three years and don't tell them how
to spend the money, but say you can't spend more
than this, and return the extra dollar to the taxpayer,
Doctor McClure.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
What are your expectations when the smoke clears in the
budget process here in Florida's special session.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Well, I mean, that's the one thing they're constitutionally required
to do, so I would imagine they will get there.
It's a you know, listen to this, it's they're only
a few billion in air quotes apart pressing right, So
I would imagine they'll get there and it'll be somewhere
around one thirteen one fifteen billion. I will say this, okay,
(10:33):
whatever they get to. Our legislature, despite the infighting over
the last few years, is and when Paul Rinter was
Speaker and previous to that, has done a really good
job of not blowing out the budget. We've been around
one hundred and fifteen billion dollars or less for a
few years. And I you know, whatever they you know,
(10:56):
whatever the bickering and arguing, they're going to have to
come to a decision because they got to pass the
budget and it's for capita. Florida is one of the
best states in the country in terms of how our
legislature uses our money.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
What do you credit that too?
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Oh gosh, I would credit it to great movement conservative leadership,
not Republican leadership JMI. First of all, it's not a
republican organization. We believe in movement conservative conservatism. So you
have people going back to Jeb Bush who managed the
money properly, Rick Scott, Ron Desantus. But then in the House,
(11:35):
in the Senate, you've had some really great House speakers
who manage the money, Alan Benz, Paul Renner, some folks
that have done some fantastic work in terms of setting
the tone and good policy. Preston is good politics. So
what we've reached in Florida, why Florida has become such
a deep red state when it used to be purple,
(11:57):
is the implementation of conservative policies that now translate into votes.
It doesn't happen overnight, but it happens over time. So
no income tax, less government spending, fewer regulations, universal school choice,
all of these kinds of things translate over time into
(12:21):
spending less money at the state level, and they also
translate over time into votes. And that's why Florida has
gone from purple to red because of movement conservative leadership.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Do you expect there to be one particular area of
policy inside these negotiations. That will be the sticking point
between the House and the Senate.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
I think there are several sticking points, so I don't
know that there will be one specific. I know the
Speaker has some of his priorities, the Center President has his,
and obviously the governor has his, So I don't know
that there will be one. I'm not sure anyone knows
how this is going to shake out, but it's got
to be done, and I think these men and women
(13:07):
want to get it done this year so they can
go home to their districts and get ready for their campaigns.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
Ultimately, though, they know that the governor holds the final
say with the line item veto power that the governor's
office has.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
That's correct, that's correct, and the governor will use it.
And he's proven that he will use his line item
to get rid of things that he perceives as wasteful
or that are needless in the budget. And that line
item has also contributed to some to a significant degree
(13:44):
of why Florida remains per capita, really really strong when
it comes to less government spending compared to other states.
Our state budget is just if you almost the same
three million people, almost the same as the City of
New York's, which has eight million people. The City of
(14:05):
New York's in twenty twenty five was one hundred and
twelve billion dollars. Ours was one hundred and fifteen. I mean,
think about that, that's funny. Imagine that kind of three times,
you know, the people. If our budget was three times
as large, it would be horrific.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
We'd be moving, Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
We would, Doctor Michele, are moving here.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
In part Yeah, no kidding, Doctor McClure, thanks, as always
for the time. We'll talk again next month.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
Thanks for having me my friend, all right, Doctor
Speaker 1 (14:36):
Bob McClure, President of the James Madison Institute, the website
James Madison dot org.
Good a mates and welcome, ruminators, ladies and gentlemen, boys
and girls, males and females. Only to the second hour
of The Morning Show with Preston Scott Show fifty six
oh two. He's ose, I'm Preston and this is the
president of JMI, otherwise known as the James Madison Institute.
Doctor Bob McClure, Hello.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Sir, Hello sir. How are you doing this fine morning?
Speaker 1 (00:28):
You know, I'm good. I'm fascinated to hear your reaction
because everybody I've had on the show of late, I've
asked them their thoughts on the redistricting battle that's happening. Obviously,
I want your thoughts on what Florida has decided to do,
but just broadly, doctor McClure, your thoughts on what's happening nationwide.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Well, I think it is a product of the political
landscape really since Trump came on board in twenty sixteen,
and this is kind of just the men infestation of
that by both parties. So if we look at it
from ten thousand feet, that's kind of where we are.
We have kind of this brass knuckles fight over the
(01:11):
future of the House because if the Democrats take it back.
They will just gum up everything with investigation, and after investigation,
impeachment after impeachment. And we have a fighter in the
White House, whether you agree with him or not, he's,
you know, unlike George W. Bush or Mitt Romney or
John McCain, the two lost. He's not going to put
(01:33):
up with it. And so they're fighting across the country.
It's really hand to hand combat because just a few
seats will make a difference. And right now, given the
Virginia decision, the Missouri decision yesterday, the Republicans have the
upper hand and look to have some Republican leaning seats.
(01:56):
I'd say, you know, eight to ten possible seats. And
I'll add one more thing pressing about this. You know,
to paraphrase John Roberts, the way you don't discriminate based
on race is you don't discriminate based on race. And
these majority minority districts, I would argue, if you look
(02:17):
at the last election, Trump one tremendously with African American men,
with Hispanics, with blue collar African Americans. He moved every
demographic except white women towards him than the last election.
I would argue that that eliminating these majority minority districts
forces and this is a good thing. Republicans and Democrats
(02:41):
to fight for black votes in many of these districts
that are purplish slightly read when otherwise they never had
to fight for these votes. So now that means African
American voices will be heard, I would argue even more
so than they traditionally have.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
The argument has been that a lot of the redistricting
that was race based was done in the South, that
in the Northeast it was not done that way. That
in the Northeast, and maybe even California, districts were drawn
solely to eliminate Republican representation, regardless of how much of
(03:19):
the population was registered Republican or not. How do you
fix that if that's true.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Well, I think you draw, you know, districts that are
you know, rectangular or or you know square. In other words,
if I understand your question correctly, if you look at
New England, you have roughly in round numbers, forty to
forty to forty five percent of the voting public in
(03:47):
New England is Republican, and yet they don't have a
single House congressional member of the Republicans still and so
in the South, there's a historical component. There is the
the specter and the disgusting haunting of segregation and Jim
Crow and the Voting Rights Act, which was never designed
(04:12):
to set up majority minority districts. It was this is
this idea that somehow this is going to disenfranchise African
Americans from voting. That's that's not true. The Voting Rights
Act protects that. This is a completely separate issue. And
we had this notion that the Voting Rights Act was
(04:33):
somehow not notion. It was distorted in the courts through
guilt over segregation in Jim Crow, which was horrific stuff,
and it perverted the Voting Rights Act into establishing this
majority minority districts. The voting right, Voting Rights Act protects
everyone's African Americans ability to vote. That is a wholly
(04:57):
in separate issue, and it's being pervert by the left
to say somehow that this is a racist issue. Look
at the congressman from Memphis. He's white, he's a white male.
There's a very good chance that an African American woman
Republican could now win that seat. This is not about
race for the Democrats. For the left, this is about power.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
We have spoken at length about Florida property taxes and
what the future might look like. After talking with state
CFO Blazingolia back a few days ago, I'm under the
impression that what seems to be the most realistic is
some sort of glide slope to an abolition of property taxes.
What is your hunch in what you're hearing and what
(05:43):
you think is going to happen?
Speaker 2 (05:45):
I mean, you have to the CFO would know more
but than me, But I you know, I think there
is going to be a glidepath. I don't know. You know,
that's a very large general term glidepath. So what does
that mean? Is that a you know, an exemption that
has raised over time to seven fifty or a million dollars?
(06:08):
Don't I don't know the answer to that. I do
believe the governor is going to be bold and big
on this, and there's pressure building on the legislature. The
longer they wait, a lot of people are like, Oh,
what's the governor doing? He's waiting so long. I mean,
this is a smart man. He's been in office for
nearly eight years. He knows what he's doing, and I
think not having any insider knowledge. But I think he's
(06:31):
building the pressure on the legislature to do something big
and bold, whatever it is he reveals, because if they don't,
then they have to go home and face voters, and
that's going to be a real, real challenge for that legislature.
So I think it's going to be something big and bold.
I don't know what the final product's going to be,
probably some sort of exemption preston. My concern is, here's
(06:54):
my concern is that they have got to plug the bucket.
In other words, they're gonna just the local municipalities if
they don't do something at the legislative level level, they're
gonna they're gonna cost shift, and they're gonna cost shift
in other ways. We see it in this town all
the time, right with utilities, with the milite rates, with
(07:17):
you know, all of these different things, the sales, the
penny ha penny sales tax, all of that kind of stuff.
They're just gonna cost shift. So they need to make
sure that they find a way to plug the bucket
and not allow municipalities to just raise taxes in other areas.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
Yeah, I think that there's there's gonna have to be
some uh, some real work with the pencil and eraser
and and figuring out how this is gonna manifest itself.
I'm curious, do you do you personally think that they
can get away with just putting a cap on who's
going to get an exemption? Or would that be unconstitutional
(07:57):
to limit it? I mean, I get the idea of
being homesteaded properties only that you know your primary residence.
But is it possible for them to say okay, up
to a million dollars and just stop there? Wouldn't the
people that own a more expensive home say well why
not us?
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Well that's the danger. And the other danger is, well,
let's give it to only people who have paid off
their mortgage. Well why would people who haven't paid off
their mortgage vote for that? Or somebody over sixty or veterans.
I mean that this is this is the issue. It
needs to be simple, it needs to be understood, and
(08:36):
it needs to affect virtually all as many Floridians as possible.
That's what needs to happen. And so, you know, some
sort of exemption up to a million dollars, let's say.
I mean a lot of people are like, oh my gosh,
a million dollars. Well, a million dollars in a you know,
in Orlando is not as much as one thinks as
it is. And we're not talking about Tallahassee or Montase Madison,
(09:01):
So I don't know. I'm not advocating for a million.
But we've laid out a number of ways to do this,
and your your listeners can go to James Madison dot org.
We presented a study you know, about six months ago
on this issue. Lots of different options. The simplest way
for us, Preston, we think, is you could One thing
you could do is just cap spending at the local
(09:22):
level and roll it back three years. Just roll it
back to twenty twenty three and then cap spending and
then say you can only raise spending based on population
and index to inflation. And that protects rural counties, that
protects small counties, that protects large counties, and it takes
(09:44):
a hatchet to the ability of municipalities to spend like
drunken sailors. Just it's called a levy. Cap cap all spending,
roll it back three years and don't tell them how
to spend the money, but say you can't spend more
than this, and return the extra dollar to the taxpayer,
Doctor McClure.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
What are your expectations when the smoke clears in the
budget process here in Florida's special session.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Well, I mean, that's the one thing they're constitutionally required
to do, so I would imagine they will get there.
It's a you know, listen to this, it's they're only
a few billion in air quotes apart pressing right, So
I would imagine they'll get there and it'll be somewhere
around one thirteen one fifteen billion. I will say this, okay,
(10:33):
whatever they get to. Our legislature, despite the infighting over
the last few years, is and when Paul Rinter was
Speaker and previous to that, has done a really good
job of not blowing out the budget. We've been around
one hundred and fifteen billion dollars or less for a
few years. And I you know, whatever they you know,
(10:56):
whatever the bickering and arguing, they're going to have to
come to a decision because they got to pass the
budget and it's for capita. Florida is one of the
best states in the country in terms of how our
legislature uses our money.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
What do you credit that too?
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Oh gosh, I would credit it to great movement conservative leadership,
not Republican leadership JMI. First of all, it's not a
republican organization. We believe in movement conservative conservatism. So you
have people going back to Jeb Bush who managed the
money properly, Rick Scott, Ron Desantus. But then in the House,
(11:35):
in the Senate, you've had some really great House speakers
who manage the money, Alan Benz, Paul Renner, some folks
that have done some fantastic work in terms of setting
the tone and good policy. Preston is good politics. So
what we've reached in Florida, why Florida has become such
a deep red state when it used to be purple,
(11:57):
is the implementation of conservative policies that now translate into votes.
It doesn't happen overnight, but it happens over time. So
no income tax, less government spending, fewer regulations, universal school choice,
all of these kinds of things translate over time into
(12:21):
spending less money at the state level, and they also
translate over time into votes. And that's why Florida has
gone from purple to red because of movement conservative leadership.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Do you expect there to be one particular area of
policy inside these negotiations. That will be the sticking point
between the House and the Senate.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
I think there are several sticking points, so I don't
know that there will be one specific. I know the
Speaker has some of his priorities, the Center President has his,
and obviously the governor has his, So I don't know
that there will be one. I'm not sure anyone knows
how this is going to shake out, but it's got
to be done, and I think these men and women
(13:07):
want to get it done this year so they can
go home to their districts and get ready for their campaigns.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
Ultimately, though, they know that the governor holds the final
say with the line item veto power that the governor's
office has.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
That's correct, that's correct, and the governor will use it.
And he's proven that he will use his line item
to get rid of things that he perceives as wasteful
or that are needless in the budget. And that line
item has also contributed to some to a significant degree
(13:44):
of why Florida remains per capita, really really strong when
it comes to less government spending compared to other states.
Our state budget is just if you almost the same
three million people, almost the same as the City of
New York's, which has eight million people. The City of
(14:05):
New York's in twenty twenty five was one hundred and
twelve billion dollars. Ours was one hundred and fifteen. I mean,
think about that, that's funny. Imagine that kind of three times,
you know, the people. If our budget was three times
as large, it would be horrific.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
We'd be moving, Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
We would, Doctor Michele, are moving here.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
In part Yeah, no kidding, Doctor McClure, thanks, as always
for the time. We'll talk again next month.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
Thanks for having me my friend, all right, Doctor
Speaker 1 (14:36):
Bob McClure, President of the James Madison Institute, the website
James Madison dot org.
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