June 11, 2026 • 14 mins
Dr. Bob McClure, James Madison Institute, discusses the Florida legislature's two special sessions.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
Welcome third hour the Morning Show with President Scott. It
is so good to be with you. I appreciate it.
We have got a great guest for you. Joins us
once a month. He's the president of the James Madison
Institute and he is doctor Bob McClure. Hello, friend, how
(00:27):
are you.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
I'm doing terrific. How are you, sir?
Speaker 1 (00:31):
I you know, I try to be transparent, doctor McClure.
I'm not a happy camper when it comes to what
the legislature did. Let me get your thoughts on the
property tax amendment as it's presented.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Let me tell you what they did, and then we'll
go from there. So essentially, they passed they're going to
put a constitutional amendment on the bout in November that
would raise the home set exemption from fifty to one
hundred and fifty to twenty seven and then from one
hundred and fifty to fifty and twenty.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Eight one nifty your phone cut out to two fifty, right.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Yes, that is correct, yes, And so that you know
that will cover the vast majority of home owners, you know,
in terms of assessed value and what this the local
government does. But you know there are the local governments,
(01:27):
particularly well not just particularly all around the state Preston.
As you know, they're always looking for more money and
how to spend more money. It's never about living within
your means or cutting back. And so I applaud the
governor for making this really a national issue. He has
been out front on this. This is what we have.
(01:51):
We have to be vigilant because local governments are not
going to cut back. There there's a possibility that they
could cost shifts, move their taxes to other areas. And so,
you know, is half a loaf better than no loaf?
I think for a lot of people it is. And
I think perceptions reality. And so if we're talking about
good policy, is it perfect, No, it's not. But if
(02:13):
it's a start, then maybe we have something we can
work with, because there's more to it than just that.
There's a component that says the legislature can go back
by fiat, not by fiat, by legislative action and raise
that exemption even more down the road, there's more to
be done, which we can talk about in this conversation.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
We already know because the media outlets across Florida are
already doing it that counties and cities are beginning the threats. Well,
you know, if you pass this, we're gonna have to
make cuts to police, We're gonna have to make cuts
to parks and RECs, We're gonna have to make cuts
to things that matter to you people. And you and
(02:56):
I both know that's just nonsense. They will choose to
do that. They don't have to. So how do we
how do we gin up the support that is required
for what I think is a I personally don't like it,
but and anyway, how do we get support? How do
we get past that?
Speaker 2 (03:16):
It's going to be a challenge. I mean this, if
you look at uh, you know these going back to
the nineties, these federal government shutdowns over spending and money.
All of a sudden, the national parks weren't working properly. Yep,
you know, DC garbage was on the street, and you
know we you know, you see all this. Oh, veterans
(03:37):
aren't going to get their check those skip you hear
all that stuff. It's all a lie. It's a tough battle.
It's tough, but if this is going to pass. Look,
I'll give the governor credit. If you remember two years
ago on the Weed Amendment and the really really radical
abortion emit. Even if your pro abortion and you listen
(03:58):
to your show, this amendment was radical by any stretch. Ye,
the governor was all in. He put all his chips
in the middle. And I give him full credit for
defeating the legalization of marijuana for Florida, which I think
would be a tragedy for the state if we did that. Ye,
given our tourism and whatnot. And for defeating that radical
(04:19):
abortion amendment. And so the governor, it's not gonna be
Bob McClure and Preston Scott. It's gonna be the governor
leading the way and others follow him. He put all
his chips in the middle on that two years ago
and he won. Now, conversely, it's got to pass. That
was to defeat, so he needed to keep it under
sixty percent. Right, for something to pass in Florida, it
(04:40):
requires sixty percent, and he kept both under sixty percent.
Now it's the opposite. You have to get sixty percent
to pass. I think he's got a good chance, this governor.
I don't understimate him in these situations, but it's gonna
be him who has the bully puppet pulpit.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
I think it should be Governor Rhonda Santus, and doctor
Bob McClure in Preston Scott. He is the president of
the James Madison Institute think tank based here in Florida's
capital city, advancing policy. That's good policy, doctor McClure. So
(05:22):
you're telling me that in this amendment there is a
provision that, if passed, that allows the legislature to raise it,
because right now it's sitting at two point fifty with
cpis tied to it is only going to help people
so long, and it's only going to help people that
have been in their homes for a very long time
because the average, the median price is four hundred thousand,
(05:45):
and so we're still back with the same problem of
never owning your own home.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
That's right, and I think that you know it's like
to me, Preston, this is a little bit like if
we can win this back, this is a little bit
like school choice and parental choice. So if you remember,
if you go back, if I take you back down
memory lane and you look, Jeb tried to pass the
tiny little program you're talking about five hundred one thousand
(06:13):
kids where parents could choose parents in underserved communities that
were really, really poor and poverty situations could pick a
school of their choice. Right. It worked. The program worked,
and African American communities, Hispanic communities began to love school
choice and lo and behold. It's the single most important
(06:33):
reason Ron DeSantis beat Andrew Gillim because a half million
African American women voted for Ron DeSantis in that election.
This is documented by JMI through the Wall Street Journal.
Because of school choice, DeSantis was going to expand it.
Andrew Gillam, a product of the teachers' unions, was going
to kill it. Now we have universal school choice, and
(06:56):
I see that its property tax situation is to start.
And once it kicks in, if done the right way
with the governor, this initial governor with the bully pulpit,
if it passes, I think then you're gonna see people
begin to look at their property tax bill to realize
that the whole world doesn't break down, that police still
(07:20):
show up, public schools are still funded. I think that's
where we're going. This is not the best solution, but
it is a start, and I think if done right,
it's much like universal school choice, it spreads to a
grass fire that could be really effective.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
So they would not need an additional constitutional amendment vote
to raise it from two hundred and fifty thousand dollars.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
They would not.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
Nope, tell me this. You mentioned the bully pulpit that
Governor Desantas wielded the last time around on weed and abortion. However,
he also did have support. There were grassroots campaigns out there,
funded by different individuals that did stand alongside and what
we're out there fighting against the weed amendment, against the
(08:07):
abortion amendment. And I think that that played a role.
Who would stand alongside, who would be out there funding
this effort to expand property tax relief?
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Well, I think, first of all, I think it's a
little early because it just passed. You know, we're early
days past the legislative action. But I think there are
all kinds of groups that would support this. The other
thing that's important is that businesses were really worried that
they were going to the cost shiff was going to
(08:40):
go to non homestead of properties, right where local governments
could raise taxes just beyond measure. Well, the cat there's
five percent, So I think you're going to that they
can't raise you know, non homestead by more than five percent.
So I think you're going to see business groups come around.
I can't speak for anybody. I'd rather not just throw
(09:01):
out names, but I think you're gonna see taxpayer groups
and places like call your County, and and and Duval
County and you know, Polk County where Lakeland is. In
all of these areas where local taxes have gone through
the roof, I think you're gonna see chamber type groups,
(09:22):
small business type groups and and and really, if the
governor does it the right way, which he's done so far,
you're gonna see this kind of grassroots tax revolt reminiscent
of like a California in the eighties or for old
people when Reagan, you know, had the tax revolt and
he became governor of California. I'm gonna be some big money.
(09:44):
The governor doesn't just do things about thinking things through.
But I hesitate to kind of name them until we
get further down the road.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
Final segment here, Doctor Bob McClure, he has followed Florida
politics more importantly Florida. You know, the politics is just
part of it, and the politics is the means to
the end, and the end is good policy. And doctor
McClure we had a special session to deal with the
budget because they couldn't get it across the finish line
(10:15):
before the end of the regular session. Your thoughts on
where the budget ended up and what you see coming
with the governor's pen you know.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Let me let me back up to what you just said,
because your listeners need to not lose that real, great
and tremendous insight. Good policy is good politics, and people
don't always think about that. Andrew Breitbart famously said that
politics is downstream from culture. If you have good policy,
(10:46):
you'll have good politics. And so too often your frustration
with elected officials is on point because they're cowardly. But
we this is the reason Florida has moved from a
blue to a pearl to a deep red state because
of good policy. I just wanted your listener to hold
(11:07):
on to that pearl of wisdom from you. In terms
of the budget, Look, we can be frustrated with the
fact that not much wasn't done. There was a ton
of acrimony with the governor and the House Speaker particularly,
that's no secret. But the state budget is going to
be about one hundred is currently I can't remember the
exact number. One hundred and fifteen billion, one hundred and sixteen,
(11:29):
let's call it one hundred and fifteen in round numbers.
We have twenty three million people in this state. Preston,
New York City has eight million. You know what New
York City's budget is, It's almost the same as the
entire state of Florida's. New York City's budget's about one
hundred and twelve million or billion, excuse me, ours is
(11:50):
one hundred and fifteen. So I will give this legislature
a lot of credit in the leadership in the House,
in the Senate. They're not spending like drunken sailors. And
I think what you'll see what you'll see with the
governor's veto pen, it's going to go lower. How much lower,
I don't know, but it is in terms of government spending,
(12:14):
in the need for cash. We have generationally benefited from
tremendous leaderships. Rick's I was tremendous. Governor DeSantis has been great,
and House and Senate leadership over the years. You're talking about,
per capita, one of the lowest spending states in the country,
and yet look at our services, look at you know,
(12:35):
do we have more to do? Of course, we always
need infrastructure and roads. That's a different discussion, but generally
Florida's run like a spinning top. And I and he's
also cut the debt. I think I think I saw
the number. I think it's fifty percent. I can't remember
the exact number.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
Yeah, we're and we're cutting more with this budget as well.
Another I want to say fifteen to sixteen million.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Yeah, yeah, we have triple rating. You compare that to
California's pension what they're on the hook with their pensions
in Illinois and New York State. Again, it's this repetitive theme,
the good policy is good politics, and people move here
because of that.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
Do you think there needs to be I asked this
of your former colleague Sal Newsoh do you feel as
though you know we've cut to the bone and that
while state workers we might need to look at how
much we have in terms of positions in middle and
upper management inside the agencies. Do you think we're at
a point where we need to start looking at improving
(13:39):
the worker pay for rank and file state workers.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
I do. And it's not just because I'm from Tallahassee. Look,
I I you know, if we are as lean as
we say, you know, then take care of the people
who do the job. Agreed, What is that? What does
that look like? But you know they've they've been pounded
on for thirty years, and rightfully so in many many ways.
(14:08):
But you have if you want quality people in those agencies,
you have to pay you know, you have to pay
a living wage. I hate that term because the unions
just beat it to death, but you have to pay
a serviceable wage, so I think it's worth looking at.
I don't have the answer as I talk to you
(14:28):
at this moment, but yes, I do believe that
Welcome third hour the Morning Show with President Scott. It
is so good to be with you. I appreciate it.
We have got a great guest for you. Joins us
once a month. He's the president of the James Madison
Institute and he is doctor Bob McClure. Hello, friend, how
(00:27):
are you.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
I'm doing terrific. How are you, sir?
Speaker 1 (00:31):
I you know, I try to be transparent, doctor McClure.
I'm not a happy camper when it comes to what
the legislature did. Let me get your thoughts on the
property tax amendment as it's presented.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Let me tell you what they did, and then we'll
go from there. So essentially, they passed they're going to
put a constitutional amendment on the bout in November that
would raise the home set exemption from fifty to one
hundred and fifty to twenty seven and then from one
hundred and fifty to fifty and twenty.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Eight one nifty your phone cut out to two fifty, right.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Yes, that is correct, yes, And so that you know
that will cover the vast majority of home owners, you know,
in terms of assessed value and what this the local
government does. But you know there are the local governments,
(01:27):
particularly well not just particularly all around the state Preston.
As you know, they're always looking for more money and
how to spend more money. It's never about living within
your means or cutting back. And so I applaud the
governor for making this really a national issue. He has
been out front on this. This is what we have.
(01:51):
We have to be vigilant because local governments are not
going to cut back. There there's a possibility that they
could cost shifts, move their taxes to other areas. And so,
you know, is half a loaf better than no loaf?
I think for a lot of people it is. And
I think perceptions reality. And so if we're talking about
good policy, is it perfect, No, it's not. But if
(02:13):
it's a start, then maybe we have something we can
work with, because there's more to it than just that.
There's a component that says the legislature can go back
by fiat, not by fiat, by legislative action and raise
that exemption even more down the road, there's more to
be done, which we can talk about in this conversation.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
We already know because the media outlets across Florida are
already doing it that counties and cities are beginning the threats. Well,
you know, if you pass this, we're gonna have to
make cuts to police, We're gonna have to make cuts
to parks and RECs, We're gonna have to make cuts
to things that matter to you people. And you and
(02:56):
I both know that's just nonsense. They will choose to
do that. They don't have to. So how do we
how do we gin up the support that is required
for what I think is a I personally don't like it,
but and anyway, how do we get support? How do
we get past that?
Speaker 2 (03:16):
It's going to be a challenge. I mean this, if
you look at uh, you know these going back to
the nineties, these federal government shutdowns over spending and money.
All of a sudden, the national parks weren't working properly. Yep,
you know, DC garbage was on the street, and you
know we you know, you see all this. Oh, veterans
(03:37):
aren't going to get their check those skip you hear
all that stuff. It's all a lie. It's a tough battle.
It's tough, but if this is going to pass. Look,
I'll give the governor credit. If you remember two years
ago on the Weed Amendment and the really really radical
abortion emit. Even if your pro abortion and you listen
(03:58):
to your show, this amendment was radical by any stretch. Ye,
the governor was all in. He put all his chips
in the middle. And I give him full credit for
defeating the legalization of marijuana for Florida, which I think
would be a tragedy for the state if we did that. Ye,
given our tourism and whatnot. And for defeating that radical
(04:19):
abortion amendment. And so the governor, it's not gonna be
Bob McClure and Preston Scott. It's gonna be the governor
leading the way and others follow him. He put all
his chips in the middle on that two years ago
and he won. Now, conversely, it's got to pass. That
was to defeat, so he needed to keep it under
sixty percent. Right, for something to pass in Florida, it
(04:40):
requires sixty percent, and he kept both under sixty percent.
Now it's the opposite. You have to get sixty percent
to pass. I think he's got a good chance, this governor.
I don't understimate him in these situations, but it's gonna
be him who has the bully puppet pulpit.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
I think it should be Governor Rhonda Santus, and doctor
Bob McClure in Preston Scott. He is the president of
the James Madison Institute think tank based here in Florida's
capital city, advancing policy. That's good policy, doctor McClure. So
(05:22):
you're telling me that in this amendment there is a
provision that, if passed, that allows the legislature to raise it,
because right now it's sitting at two point fifty with
cpis tied to it is only going to help people
so long, and it's only going to help people that
have been in their homes for a very long time
because the average, the median price is four hundred thousand,
(05:45):
and so we're still back with the same problem of
never owning your own home.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
That's right, and I think that you know it's like
to me, Preston, this is a little bit like if
we can win this back, this is a little bit
like school choice and parental choice. So if you remember,
if you go back, if I take you back down
memory lane and you look, Jeb tried to pass the
tiny little program you're talking about five hundred one thousand
(06:13):
kids where parents could choose parents in underserved communities that
were really, really poor and poverty situations could pick a
school of their choice. Right. It worked. The program worked,
and African American communities, Hispanic communities began to love school
choice and lo and behold. It's the single most important
(06:33):
reason Ron DeSantis beat Andrew Gillim because a half million
African American women voted for Ron DeSantis in that election.
This is documented by JMI through the Wall Street Journal.
Because of school choice, DeSantis was going to expand it.
Andrew Gillam, a product of the teachers' unions, was going
to kill it. Now we have universal school choice, and
(06:56):
I see that its property tax situation is to start.
And once it kicks in, if done the right way
with the governor, this initial governor with the bully pulpit,
if it passes, I think then you're gonna see people
begin to look at their property tax bill to realize
that the whole world doesn't break down, that police still
(07:20):
show up, public schools are still funded. I think that's
where we're going. This is not the best solution, but
it is a start, and I think if done right,
it's much like universal school choice, it spreads to a
grass fire that could be really effective.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
So they would not need an additional constitutional amendment vote
to raise it from two hundred and fifty thousand dollars.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
They would not.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
Nope, tell me this. You mentioned the bully pulpit that
Governor Desantas wielded the last time around on weed and abortion. However,
he also did have support. There were grassroots campaigns out there,
funded by different individuals that did stand alongside and what
we're out there fighting against the weed amendment, against the
(08:07):
abortion amendment. And I think that that played a role.
Who would stand alongside, who would be out there funding
this effort to expand property tax relief?
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Well, I think, first of all, I think it's a
little early because it just passed. You know, we're early
days past the legislative action. But I think there are
all kinds of groups that would support this. The other
thing that's important is that businesses were really worried that
they were going to the cost shiff was going to
(08:40):
go to non homestead of properties, right where local governments
could raise taxes just beyond measure. Well, the cat there's
five percent, So I think you're going to that they
can't raise you know, non homestead by more than five percent.
So I think you're going to see business groups come around.
I can't speak for anybody. I'd rather not just throw
(09:01):
out names, but I think you're gonna see taxpayer groups
and places like call your County, and and and Duval
County and you know, Polk County where Lakeland is. In
all of these areas where local taxes have gone through
the roof, I think you're gonna see chamber type groups,
(09:22):
small business type groups and and and really, if the
governor does it the right way, which he's done so far,
you're gonna see this kind of grassroots tax revolt reminiscent
of like a California in the eighties or for old
people when Reagan, you know, had the tax revolt and
he became governor of California. I'm gonna be some big money.
(09:44):
The governor doesn't just do things about thinking things through.
But I hesitate to kind of name them until we
get further down the road.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
Final segment here, Doctor Bob McClure, he has followed Florida
politics more importantly Florida. You know, the politics is just
part of it, and the politics is the means to
the end, and the end is good policy. And doctor
McClure we had a special session to deal with the
budget because they couldn't get it across the finish line
(10:15):
before the end of the regular session. Your thoughts on
where the budget ended up and what you see coming
with the governor's pen you know.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Let me let me back up to what you just said,
because your listeners need to not lose that real, great
and tremendous insight. Good policy is good politics, and people
don't always think about that. Andrew Breitbart famously said that
politics is downstream from culture. If you have good policy,
(10:46):
you'll have good politics. And so too often your frustration
with elected officials is on point because they're cowardly. But
we this is the reason Florida has moved from a
blue to a pearl to a deep red state because
of good policy. I just wanted your listener to hold
(11:07):
on to that pearl of wisdom from you. In terms
of the budget, Look, we can be frustrated with the
fact that not much wasn't done. There was a ton
of acrimony with the governor and the House Speaker particularly,
that's no secret. But the state budget is going to
be about one hundred is currently I can't remember the
exact number. One hundred and fifteen billion, one hundred and sixteen,
(11:29):
let's call it one hundred and fifteen in round numbers.
We have twenty three million people in this state. Preston,
New York City has eight million. You know what New
York City's budget is, It's almost the same as the
entire state of Florida's. New York City's budget's about one
hundred and twelve million or billion, excuse me, ours is
(11:50):
one hundred and fifteen. So I will give this legislature
a lot of credit in the leadership in the House,
in the Senate. They're not spending like drunken sailors. And
I think what you'll see what you'll see with the
governor's veto pen, it's going to go lower. How much lower,
I don't know, but it is in terms of government spending,
(12:14):
in the need for cash. We have generationally benefited from
tremendous leaderships. Rick's I was tremendous. Governor DeSantis has been great,
and House and Senate leadership over the years. You're talking about,
per capita, one of the lowest spending states in the country,
and yet look at our services, look at you know,
(12:35):
do we have more to do? Of course, we always
need infrastructure and roads. That's a different discussion, but generally
Florida's run like a spinning top. And I and he's
also cut the debt. I think I think I saw
the number. I think it's fifty percent. I can't remember
the exact number.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
Yeah, we're and we're cutting more with this budget as well.
Another I want to say fifteen to sixteen million.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Yeah, yeah, we have triple rating. You compare that to
California's pension what they're on the hook with their pensions
in Illinois and New York State. Again, it's this repetitive theme,
the good policy is good politics, and people move here
because of that.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
Do you think there needs to be I asked this
of your former colleague Sal Newsoh do you feel as
though you know we've cut to the bone and that
while state workers we might need to look at how
much we have in terms of positions in middle and
upper management inside the agencies. Do you think we're at
a point where we need to start looking at improving
(13:39):
the worker pay for rank and file state workers.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
I do. And it's not just because I'm from Tallahassee. Look,
I I you know, if we are as lean as
we say, you know, then take care of the people
who do the job. Agreed, What is that? What does
that look like? But you know they've they've been pounded
on for thirty years, and rightfully so in many many ways.
(14:08):
But you have if you want quality people in those agencies,
you have to pay you know, you have to pay
a living wage. I hate that term because the unions
just beat it to death, but you have to pay
a serviceable wage, so I think it's worth looking at.
I don't have the answer as I talk to you
(14:28):
at this moment, but yes, I do believe that
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