Dakota Mornings w/Michael Bell 3/30/26 Finken; Haugen-Hoffart

Pat Finken, with an ND GOP convention recap, and Public Service Commissioner Sheri Haugen-Hoffart.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Good morning, and welcome to Dakota Mornings. I am your host,
Michael Bell KFYR five fifty AM nine A nine point
seven FM were and iHeartMedia production. And we are going
to discuss this morning with adman emeritis, Pat thinking. We're
going to discuss the recent Republican convention, which was it
came to pass exactly as as we hear at Dcode

(00:23):
Morning suggested it would, and we're going to clean up
some of the some of the parts that maybe were
slightly confusing. And we're also going to talk about the
dramatic overreach attempted by the party. And Pat is going
to be joining us here any second now. I believe
he's on the line, Pat Thinking, good morning. Thank you
for joining us this morning.

Speaker 2 (00:44):
Good morning, Michael, how are you.

Speaker 1 (00:46):
I'm great. How was your weekend?

Speaker 2 (00:48):
It was wonderful. I was in Minneapolis, unfortunately for a funeral,
but got a chance to head north a little bit
and actually Sunday there was beautiful, So had a great weekend.
How about you, guys?

Speaker 1 (01:00):
It was great. It was It was prom all weekend long,
which was actually delightful for me. I got to hide
out in my man cave as six or seven young
ladies from Juel High School came over to have their
hair did and their nails did, and well not their nails,
but their makeup did and all that good stuff. So
it was it was a lot of fun. It was.
And then it went to Grand March on Saturday, which

(01:21):
is very much in North Akote institution that I absolutely love.
And I'll tell you why the parents spend so much
money on tuxes and accouterments and dresses and gowns and
all that stuff. They spend so much money on it.
It is delightful for me that they get the opportunity
to see their kids featured front and center. I think

(01:43):
Grand March is a great thing.

Speaker 2 (01:46):
No, and it's and it probably is more for the
kids or for the parents than the kids. That's there
only payoff for all the money you spend on a prom.
So I remember distinctly the fun of all that and
the expectations and and and yet it's a great memory
for them, right, That's one of those that's kind of
the right of passage out of high school as you go,

(02:06):
you know, you go to your junior and senior prom.
So No, that that would have been a nice thing,
that great time to spend time with family.

Speaker 1 (02:14):
Amen, That's exactly what it was. And I got to
hide out with my dog and watch sports all weekend,
So that worked out great for me.

Speaker 2 (02:22):
There are a couple of exciting games at yukon Ry.
I mean it was that was an unbelievable preshows to
that game. I'm surprisingly close in the first place, but
to then get to that point and have that that
freshman throw up a three pointer from ten you know,
ten feet above the keys and I don't think it

(02:42):
ever touched anything but net.

Speaker 1 (02:43):
Yeah, they came back. They came back from nineteen down
it was fifteen at the half.

Speaker 2 (02:48):
Crazy. What's crazy is you know, Duke was considered one
of the front runners to win the whole thing, and
of course they they played that way right till the end,
and then they went into all I could describe as
I've used this term to describe the vikings when they're ahead,
and that they prevent.

Speaker 1 (03:05):
Defense defense, went with the.

Speaker 2 (03:08):
Basketball version of prevent defense and managed to blow the
whole thing. So so yeah, and you know what was
interesting is I don't I don't know a lot about
Duke or follow Duke at all, but there are a
lot of people that just don't like Duke. Yeah, I
mean that was the thing that was amazing to me.
So yeah, interesting times though, I do you like dynasties.

Speaker 1 (03:27):
And you know, the Angels gave up seventeen runs on
Saturday and Sunday, after getting getting off to a really
good start for the season, they gave up seventeen runs.
The bullpen is less than less than positive at this point.

Speaker 2 (03:42):
Well, I think the Twins gave us an idea of
what the season will look like. They won, one lost
to you know, one game they lost because they couldn't
score any runs and the other because they gave up
eight runs.

Speaker 1 (03:51):
Well, and I loved that.

Speaker 2 (03:51):
I think that's a preview for the year.

Speaker 1 (03:53):
I love that Broxton, he and I think it was
the sixth inning against the Orioles. He stole second overthrow
and then he manufactured a run to score. I mean,
he manufactured a run all by himself. It was it
was it was incredible, It was a brilliant it was
a brilliant series of plays.

Speaker 2 (04:10):
Well, he is, he is a phenomenal player and we're
lucky to have him on the Twins. And you know,
the bright spot was Toaz Bradley you know, he came
in with a rather high er from last year and
spring and in spring trading showed some progress. Well, he
pitched the game that the Twins won, and he was

(04:30):
after eighty five pitches, was still throwing a ninety eight
mile an hour fastball.

Speaker 1 (04:35):
Yeah, there you go.

Speaker 2 (04:36):
We don't have a lot of We don't have a
lot of power on the Twins this year, and that
was encouraging to see him come in and be able
to see, now, we still have to see how Taylor
Rogers and Cole SAMs and all those others pitch over
the course of time. But to have somebody who could
actually step in as a starter and have that kind
of you know, that kind of speed after essentially playing

(04:59):
in almost an entire game, that was encouraging to have
at least one more. Because we've lost Pablo Lopez, so
that meant we're down to Ryan and I'd like to
say over, but over isn't the over that we once
knew and loved. So hopefully they figured that all out.
But I think we're going to be an interesting year
this year. There will be a you know, some exciting

(05:22):
moments and some disappointments. If the first series is anything
that we will expect from them over the course of
the next four or five months. So anyway, a great weekend.
I was in Minneapolis. I'd rather have been in Minneapolis
than in mineut the North Republican Party, because that was
something then there was. As one district chair put it,

(05:43):
and I think this is the best way to describe
the overall impact of the district of the state convention
in Mine, it was he expected it to be worthless,
and they exceeded his expert.

Speaker 1 (05:56):
Well, let's start with let's start with some fundamentals here.
Registered delegates. How many registered delegates did they have?

Speaker 2 (06:07):
They had at peak seven hundred and six delegates.

Speaker 1 (06:10):
They Now the problem that I have with that number
is that every vote they took, the delegate votes, was
six hundred. So somebody's mathin is not mathin.

Speaker 2 (06:21):
Well, and that's not unusual to have people that register
for it and then either aren't in the room, or
didn't vote, or didn't you know, I mean all those things.
That's that's not unusual to have some But you're right,
I mean, the credentialing committee had seven hundred. But even
even if it's six hundred or seven hundred doesn't matter.
It's a dramatic downturn for the Republican Party. You're going

(06:42):
to have to go back to I bet the eighties
before you can find a statewide convention of Republicans that
had that few delegates show up. And it was interesting too,
because the rank and file traditional conservative Republicans made up
about three hundred of that number, and the populist faction
of the of the party ends up being about four

(07:04):
hundred of that. But yeah, whether it's six hundred or
seven hundred, that's a.

Speaker 1 (07:09):
That's a massive drop off thirty percent of.

Speaker 2 (07:13):
Those Democrats can I mean, as you know, you can
fit all the Democrats in the state of North Dakota
into a shoe box, and they had as many people
at their convention as we did.

Speaker 1 (07:23):
So yeah, and again I want to emphasize the thirty
percent number. Thirty percent of the possible delegates attended the
actual convention. That thirty percent is a really important number
that we'll get to a little bit later on. But
as we talked through some of the wider gulfs between
the Republican Party, conservatives and the Republican Party and this

(07:47):
this uh you know, box of populace, So while.

Speaker 2 (07:52):
We talk about the fact that there were seven hundred
and six or six hundred at the start of the day,
what was interesting is in talking to some of my
friends who went to the convention, they were telling me
that there would the whole delegations missing by the end
of the day because there was just nothing meaningful going on.
I think there was one district that the entire district
was gone by the time they got to any business

(08:14):
later in the afternoon, because there just wasn't any reason
to be there. So it yeah, it was uh, I
think I think that one district chair described the convention.
I mean I think of this though, I mean number one,
they didn't have any reason to be there because there
was nobody to endorse, you know, and so it was

(08:35):
really about the resolutions by the time it was done.
But you know, there was nobody there to endorse. And
it's also the first time in thirty years that the
Republicans didn't put up a full slate of candidates, and
and and we only put up two and and and
two of some questionable you know, you know, honest with

(08:59):
you well, ability to win and also just uh, you know,
somebody who's going to you know, be a good candidate,
and so yeah, it's uh, you know, they both of
course come from that very kind of the crazy right
wing populist crowd that's trying to assert some control over
everybody else. But I mean the fact that we only
had two candidates bad enough that the incumbents didn't show up.

(09:22):
But even in that environment where you think they'd tried
to put up as many people against the incumbents as possible,
then they could only muster and they had one third
person attempt to run for the PSC and that person
couldn't get their paperwork in time, so they didn't get
to run. You know, it shows you kind of the
quality of the candidates that they the few that they
mustard shows you the quality of the In fact, one

(09:45):
of the three that's running it is kind of a
known vulgar internet troll. I mean that kind of seems
to you know, that's I think.

Speaker 1 (09:57):
I've heard doing as a buffoon before, and I was
summarily it was it was suggested that I was calling
people names, and I freely admitted that that referring to
this candidate as a buffoon was an error in judgment
on my part and I shouldn't have done it, but
you know, but yeah, you guys can.

Speaker 2 (10:17):
Say, well, the reality is though, I mean, voters need
to know who they're voting for. Right, you've got you've
got some less than quality. And it'd be different if one,
you know, we didn't have all, you know, really dominant
stature in the state. But I mean, that's the kind
of people we're putting up kind of.

Speaker 1 (10:35):
It was the Code Morning X. I'me your host Michael
Bell k f y R five fifty AM, Many nine
point seven FM. We were discussing this past weekend's Republican
State Convention, and we'll be back after this break. Welcome
back to Tocode of Mornings. I'm your host, Michael Bell
k f y R five fifty AM, Ben and nine
point seven FM. We are joined on the phone by
Pat Fincoln, and we're discussing the Republican State Convention, which

(10:59):
was in mind not this past weekend, sparsely attended, I
might add, but let's uh, Pat, I want to I
want to delve into the resolutions a little bit, because
this is what I think is really important. Operating under
the cover of night in a smoke filled back room,
if you will, with six hundred people, there were some
pretty pretty aggressive resolutions passed, and they passed overwhelmingly.

Speaker 2 (11:22):
Yeah, well, that's right, and of course it's not unusual
for the people that are more extreme to take comfort
in the resolutions. But I would tell you that their
intended use is no longer just kind of an opportunity
and exercise in opinion. They're now trying to enforce them
on everyone. But yes, they did, and even beyond the

(11:43):
six hundred. The Resolution Committee is like twenty people and
they're the ones that guide this, and of course every
one of the resolutions passed, so it was it is
a little now that they're taking on more prominence in
the expectation of the party bosses, it's it's important to
pay attention to them. And so there are some there

(12:05):
are four that I pulled out. Some are predictable and
have always been the one on abortion and marriage and
those kinds of things have been there for years, right,
But there's a tone and a darker tone that's coming
into more of a control tone that's coming into some
of these, and I think we've got to pay attention
to number one, which is just interesting to me as

(12:25):
all get out, is they want to return the state
mill in elevator to its original intent, and what they're
really saying is they want to use the profits from
the mill in elevator to pay farmers higher prices for
their grain, which is a noble thing to think about.
But at the same.

Speaker 1 (12:42):
Time, inflation, well it's it's it's inflation driven, but more importantly,
it's who decides who gets that extra money.

Speaker 2 (12:52):
Sure, the mill's not going to be able to buy
all the products in North Dakota, right, So that means
these bonus payments to these farmers would be to a
select few, and quite frankly, because of the gifting clause
and the state constitutional there's a constitution, it's probably not
constitutional to do so. And that's kind of an undertone

(13:13):
to a lot of what went on at the convention.
They've gone from shouting, we the people and defend the
constitution to we don't care what the constitution says, and
whether it's the state mill or First Amendment or whatever,
they've really abandoned that unless it serves their ultimate purpose.
So the state mill one was, I mean, I get
the sentiment behind it, but at the same time, it's

(13:36):
not practical. But it also would you know, I mean,
this is the same crowd that likes to talk about,
you know, corporate and capitalist greed and gifting to companies.
Well now suddenly they're going to give it to farmers,
and with no mechanism to decide who gets it, because
there's not enough there to give everybody and buy everybody's green,

(13:59):
but also just in violation the gifting clause. The other
one that's really interesting and quite frankly is one of
the darker ones, and that is they want to empower
the state auditor with an incredible amount of power for
investigation and prosecution. They don't want to just have this
analysis of how state agencies. They want them to be

(14:20):
able to investigate and forward for complaints, basically setting up
another level of law enforcement on state government in the
hands of the auditor, who has no experience in this,
rather than have the attorney general do it. They want
the Auditor's office to be able to do this. And again,
like I said, they have no experience in the auditor's

(14:40):
office to do this kind of stuff, but they want
to empower that because they're looking to punish people. That's
the interesting part of this. They want to punish people
that don't perform in a way that matches their expectations.
So whether you're a legislator or a state official, or
if you're a state agency, they want to be able
to have the auditor the position to punish people for

(15:02):
you know, wrongdoing and not have any experience in that
at all.

Speaker 1 (15:07):
Well, there's also a little bit more of an insidious
part of that, and that is that the Auditor's office
had all the time in the world and all the
runway in the world to oppose the Measure one, for example,
the ethics measure. They stood up very early saying that
this is you know, all under the auditor and the
Secretary of State's provision purview, i should say, and then

(15:29):
about midway through just took a powder, just backed out
because it was unpopular to oppose Measure one in twenty eighteen.
So they had the opportunity to do this and they
chose not to.

Speaker 2 (15:44):
Well, and the current auditor panders to this crowd. I mean,
there's no question that they you know, he enjoys their support,
and he has really played to this crowd. So, you know,
and the short sighted and so that of course is
that our current auditor will not always be current auditor, right,
And so you know, again but more so it comes

(16:04):
back to you know, they're just looking to punish people
and have vehicles to punish people. Sure, real law conform which,
by the way, is the other you know, there are
I think twelve total resolutions, but there are two more
that are actually more disturbing than even this, and that
is they want to end partisan primary.

Speaker 1 (16:22):
And that's the point that I was going to make.
There was a resolution which passed overwhelmingly calling for the
abolition of partisan primary system. They characterize it as unconstitutional
and unnecessary. And this is where that thirty percent comes in. Again,
thirty percent of a very very small body of people

(16:43):
decided to take it, take the party convention apparatus as
the endorsement and goes straight to the primary, walking away
from seventy thousand voters. So they want seven hundred people
or six hundred in this case, six hundred people to
decide what seventy thousand people had the opportunity to decide

(17:05):
every two years prior.

Speaker 2 (17:08):
Yeah, I mean they want to shrink it down because
they can control that group, right, and then they can
you know, make sure that the candidates match their vision
of what North Dakota should do and the rest of
us be damned. That's you're absolutely right on in your analysis,
is that they want to not just shrink the tent,
but really bring more control back to the party bosses.

(17:30):
And I want to be clear, this is not Republicans
in general. This is this cabal of populous people that
have risen try and seize control of that situation. So yeah,
I mean it's undemocratic to be honest with you to say, Okay,
we're no longer going to have an election process to decide,

(17:52):
and of course.

Speaker 1 (17:54):
You need to go to a course of break. This
is Dakota Morning DESI. I'm your host, Michael Bell kay
R five fifty not A nine point seven FM. Welcome
back to you, Jacota Mornings. I'm your host, Michael Bell
kfy R five fifty AM man A nine point seven FM.
We were joined on the phone by Pat Thinking. We're
talking about the State Republican Party convention this past week,
and Pat, we started off with the you know, before

(18:18):
we had to go to break. We start off with
the talking about the only endorsement coming from the state
party and that putting someone directly in the general election
bypassing a primary vote, substituting six hundred people's choice for
seventy thousand people's choice.

Speaker 2 (18:38):
Yeah, I mean it all speaks to their attempt to
control this and to have the party bosses decide not
only who the candidates are, but what the policy of
the state is. And what they failed to understand is
that elections have consequences. They might be you know, if
they were successful in doing this and they took us
down that path, then somebody else is going to run

(18:59):
the show them. They make the mistake of assuming that
if they can, if they seize this, that they can
then dictate to the rest of the state. And at
the end of the day, the general election is still
going to be the deciding body of who serves, not
the primary, not the conventions, and and and that's the
part they miss in this is that you know, we

(19:20):
have to put forward people that will succeed in the
general but also you know, reflect their constituents. And so
they change make the mistake of saying, Okay, we can
take over state government if we seize this apparatus, right
and responsible to this apparatus from them. So it's really
an attempt by the party bosses and this small cabal

(19:44):
of populace to inflict their view on the rest of us,
whether we like it or not. So yeah, and let's be.

Speaker 1 (19:51):
Clear about this. This, this type, this style of elections
is really really popular in Russia, in coming China, in Cuba,
this is really popular where the party controls the mechanisms
and the levers of power. This is a direct refraction
and a thumbing of the nose at the United States Constitution.

Speaker 2 (20:13):
Well, it's another example of how, you know, they're big
constitutionalists until it doesn't serve their purpose, you know. And
this is not the only way they did this, you know.
Of course, they also had a resolution that demanded adherence
to the geop platform.

Speaker 1 (20:28):
Over and above what your constituents.

Speaker 2 (20:30):
Want, right, they want, you know, they watered it down
a little bit because they got such pushback. But they
originally they were going to find people who or take
away their Republican identification if they didn't follow the party platform,
and so the one that passed actually was not but

(20:51):
they didn't stop just with the resolution. They went on
to attempt to strip the Republican.

Speaker 1 (20:58):
Now we're getting into my favorite part.

Speaker 2 (21:01):
Which is they went in and attempted to and actually
voted to take away the r from or the Republican
identifier of the people that didn't come and seek the
can or the Convention's approval for their endorsement, the people
that went straight to the primary. They're trying to strip
those people of the Republican identification. And they don't care

(21:25):
if it's unconstitutional or not. That's a violation of First Amendment, right.
They also don't care that it's a violation of state law.
And so they overwhelm you know, they passed the resolution.

Speaker 1 (21:36):
So yeah, and so I just want to characterize this
closely here. One of the things, one of the outcomes
of this is they're looking they're seeking to strip the Republican,
the Republican brand from the North Dakota Secretary of State,
the dude who administers the elections, and the North Dakota
Attorney General, the dude who enforces election law. They're looking

(21:57):
to strip their ability to run as a republic Look, yeah.

Speaker 2 (22:02):
No, it's it's it. It shows you that this is
about a power grab. This is not about good government,
and quite frankly, it is absurd. It's quite frankly, it's
illegal and unconstitutional to say that people can't refer to
themselves or call themselves as Republicans, and and of course
to his credit, the chairman of the party even said, well,

(22:23):
I don't know that we can make we can make
this stick. But they did it anyway, right, They put
up this vote for the for the people to and
there it was close, it was three hundred and some
to three hundred and some, but it passed.

Speaker 1 (22:36):
And then they do it.

Speaker 2 (22:37):
Who didn't come and seek the blessing of the cabal.
That's basically what that does. It. They wanted to punish
the people who didn't come and seek the blessing of
the cabal and who went straight to the primary, and
who would blame people for skipping the convention. All you
have to do is look at what went on and
the kind of nonsense and and craziness that was really

(22:57):
pervasive in the convention to go, reasonable people, good solid conservatives.
Why would they go, both as a delegate or as
a candidate, Why.

Speaker 1 (23:06):
Would any conservative go? They're creating a status government.

Speaker 2 (23:10):
Right, No, absolutely, and quite frankly, you know, we talked
about the two people that did get Alex Blas and Devon.
I think it's skinsky. You know, Devon has a track
record online of being kind of vulgar and extreme. I

(23:30):
was disappointed in Blaws. I know Alex well he.

Speaker 1 (23:34):
Said everybody who matters is here, less than of the
people who matter were there.

Speaker 2 (23:43):
And really, what it's come down to is he's proven
himself to be somebody who will say or do anything
to get ahead in the election process. Because you know,
he has aligned himself with this faction as a vehicle
to get on the ballot. That's I mean, that shows
you some of the character and what we can expect
from it. Frankly, I'm disappointed. I really thought we'd see

(24:06):
something more from him. I appreciate the fact that he's
a veteran and has served his country all those things.

Speaker 1 (24:12):
His wife, Cindy gave absolutely incredible remarks in his nominating speech.
I read. I didn't see them, but I read them,
and you know, when she was talking about the character
of the man with such passion and such love, it
was it was impressive. I really that's probably the only
part of the convention that I that I look forward to.

Speaker 2 (24:35):
Well, I'm quite frankly, but I'm disappointed because he has
chosen to align himself with this crowd as a vehicle.
And of course, let's remember I mean, you know, he's
running against Julia Paedorchek, who is doing a fabulous job.
And in the last election, even though he got the
endorsement of the votary, and so he not only did

(24:56):
he sell his soul a little bit by aligning with
these people, but he did it for something that last
time two years ago made no difference at all. He
ended up being what fourth or fifth in the list
of people in that in that race, and and so
it's it's really disappointing to me that, you know, so
again it's that crowd. While there were some as some

(25:19):
of us are calling normies or traditional conservative Republicans in attendance,
the vast majority of the people that were engaged and
working the convention were that new extreme group of populous. Yeah, exactly,

(25:40):
I thought. I thought Governor Armstrong's remarks on this topic
was delightful, Yeah, he asked. When asked about this attempt
to strip the Republican brand from candidates, he asked, is
this Yellowstone And for those of you that don't know
the TV series Yellowstone, if you work at the Yellowstone

(26:02):
Ranch and are considered one of theirs, they brand you
with the brand of the ranch and then if you
betray them, they actually physically cut it out. And so
that was his point was, you know, is this yellowstone?
Are we going to cut out the bar from all
these people? So I thought that was both insightful but
also a little funny in his reaction to it. But again,

(26:23):
it's not legal to do this. It's also unconstitutional to
do this.

Speaker 1 (26:28):
It's also hilarious. Yeah, no, six hundred people decide that
seventy thousand people are wrong.

Speaker 2 (26:37):
So again, but you know, you think people saying, oh,
it's not legal, not constitutional kind of lock them up, right. Okay,
now what are they're talking about. Oh, let's go to
the legislature, even though it'd be unconstitutional. Let's force one
through the legislature. In this next allow us to take
away the brand. And again they're going to go there
and try to get away or do away with the primaries,

(26:57):
but also define who can and call themselves a Republican,
which again would be a first amend violation. And if
that doesn't work, they want to take it to an
initiated measure. Jared Hendricks brought up the fact that well,
rather than going to the legislature, where they'd have to
deal with the harsh reality of it being unconstitutional. Let's
just take it to a vote of the people. Because

(27:18):
after all, even though many of the party leaders, including
the chairman, recognized that they couldn't do what they were
going to do, they went ahead and did it anyway.
So it's just it. Every time you think they would say, oh, well,
maybe this isn't the way to go, no, they double down.

Speaker 1 (27:34):
And I find it's fascinating that they want to. They
want the decisions on the endorsements who goes directly to
the general election to be decided by six hundred people.
They want to do away with seventy thousand people participating
in that. But if they don't get their way, then
they're going to take it to the seventy thousand people
for them to decide.

Speaker 2 (27:55):
Exactly, which, by the way, I think would fail miserably.
People in this state love the vote for the people
that are running and the people that serve I mean
we elect sheriffs and auditors and dog catchers and I
mean you name it. The list goes on. We love
to vote for the people who serve us. So I
think they have a real tough sled. But again, they
don't live in a real world. They live in this

(28:16):
fantasy where they're right on everything, they're smarter than everybody else,
and they want to one.

Speaker 1 (28:21):
Flick and one thing that I know, we're not having
a radio show for two years. One of the things
that I love the most about North Dakota is that
the people who listen to Dakota Mornings, the people who
vote in elections in North Dakota, are some of the
most informed people in the country. And what the state
Party was doing this weekend very simply boils down to
telling voters they're too stupid to have these important decisions.

Speaker 2 (28:46):
Yeah, and that they're going to dictate to the rest
of us how life is in North Dakota. It really
comes down to that. It's interesting that this and of
course they can't succeed by actually running candidates and having
them win. So they got a hot wire of the rules, right.
You know that if you remember two years ago they

(29:06):
had they were going to not see it an entire
district because they didn't follow the rules, and this convention
was they made it up as they went. They put stuff,
you know, voted on stuff, took actions that obviously were
not legal, all that stuff, just because it didn't you
know two years ago the law served their purpose today
or the rules serve their purpose in this wet last

(29:29):
weekend if it didn't. And I want to be clear,
this is not all Republicans.

Speaker 1 (29:33):
This isn't a small fraction.

Speaker 2 (29:38):
Exactly of people that want to do it, except by
and large, the party is still represented by people that
are extremely good at what they do and are doing
great things for North Dakota. The governor, the attorney general.
You just go down the line of the state Michael
House legislators. Yeah, I mean, and go into the legislature.
You know there are tons of there. You know, this

(30:00):
this crowd, and you and I have talked at length
about this before. This is the crowd who censured the
governor because he supported a property tax relief bill that's
wildly successful and populary.

Speaker 1 (30:11):
They had to go back and get more money.

Speaker 2 (30:14):
Yes, to fund it. It just goes to show how
out of touch and how much this crowd lives in
a fantasy world. They say. You know, I always laugh
because it seems like they sit in the little room
by themselves and convince each other that they're the smartest
people and that everybody agrees with them. That's kind of
what this whole process reminds me of.

Speaker 1 (30:33):
Well it does, and I want to get again. I
want to reiterate. This is the North Dakota A small faction,
seven tenths of one percent of the North Dakota Republicans
telling you you're too stupid to be entrusted to these decisions,
that you're too stupid to make these decisions independently, and
that they're going to use you because they believe that

(30:54):
if they were to take this to an initiated measure,
they could flood the airwaves with positive reinforcement on it
that you're too stupid and you're ready to be run
like sheep. This is how Democrats do things, not Republicans.

Speaker 2 (31:08):
This is and that's one of the many reasons why
we've been successful in this state and why we will
continue to be successful because most of us, the bulk
of us, feel like the people make good decisions, and
that's why we go out and find good candidates, put
up good candidates, and have a vision of growth and
opportunity in the state. Not let's bunker down and kind

(31:30):
of inflect this regime on everybody else.

Speaker 1 (31:33):
This is Dakota Morning Zime. Your host, Michael Bell kfy
R five fifty am, not a nine point seven f M.
We were joined on the phone by Pat Fincoln, and
we will be back after this break. Welcome back to you,
Dacota Morning Zime. Your host Michael bell I am joined
on the phone by Pat Fincoln. We're discussing thet The
North Dakota Republican Party convention this past week sparsely attended.

(31:55):
I think that the drop off was more than seventy
five percent of my to that.

Speaker 2 (32:00):
Pat, Yeah, I mean compared to just a couple of
years ago. But even if you take a longer form,
the attendance reflects the popularity of the party at this
point of the party apparatus, not Republicans in general, but
the you know you when you get down to after
what thirty or forty years of you know, one thousand

(32:20):
and fifteen hundred, two thousand, you know, I mean.

Speaker 1 (32:22):
Twenty two hundred people in twenty twenty.

Speaker 2 (32:24):
Two, right, it shows you how far this crowd is
out of touch with rank and file Republicans, no question
of that. There are a couple of things that I
wanted to touch on before we wrap up our time together,
and one was the hypocrisy they passed a resolution which,
you know, we should reflect Christian values in our government
in North Dakota. And I'm all for that, right, But

(32:47):
at the same time, the speaker that they brought in
one of their two primary speakers, and it shows not
only hypocrisy, but also where this this group's headset is
that Royce White is a candidate for the U. I
sent it in Minnesota. The last time he ran, he
was busted for using campaign funds for strip clubs and
luxury items like one hundred thousand dollars. This isn't some

(33:10):
minor little you know. He was spending big money on this,
and this is one of the people they brought in
to be the shining light of how we should all
be in North Dakota. It's so speaking of.

Speaker 1 (33:20):
That, speaking of that, it is yeah, speaking of that,
where did they? Where did the North Dakota Republican Convention
land on a code of conduct?

Speaker 2 (33:29):
They didn't enact one.

Speaker 1 (33:31):
Yeah, I didn't think so. I didn't think so.

Speaker 2 (33:33):
Well because they have their problem children, including this this
White that they brought in. But yes, they this populace.

Speaker 1 (33:41):
Two years, two years the Oderman Brothers have been advocating
for and agitating for a code of conduct for the
Republican Party, for the State Republican Party, starting with the
State Party Board. Two years they've been agitating for this
and they have gotten no response.

Speaker 2 (33:59):
Well, and the people that end up having problems with
this are part of that populist group, you know. And
that's not to say they're all that way, but there's
certainly some very good examples of people that got in trouble.
The other thing I want to touch on which just
fascinated me. Right, so we talk a lot about representing
the people, and this is you know, we the people
and all this stuff you hear from these kind of

(34:20):
right wing populace. Yeah, this group when they did only
two endorsements and in both cases didn't actually hold a
vote because they were eligible, they actually got proclaimed the
endorsed candidate, which, by the way, as I understand, could

(34:41):
be the grounds to have those endorsements thrown out because
the rules say that you have to have a majority
of the delegates present. Now, what have they gotten it
had they had a vote, probably because there were you know,
there was a few more of them than the rest
of us. But the bottom line is that they did
not actually hold a vote. You know, it's like it's

(35:03):
one more piece of evidence that says they don't care
about the rules and the law and all those They
just want to inflict their people and their vision on
all of us. They didn't even hold a vote for
the endorsements, which is, you know, over the course of
time has always been the standard by which you get
endorsed is the people have to even in an election.
Because remember, if they had not gotten enough to have

(35:29):
a majority, let's say that that half the people in
the room chose not to vote, they couldn't have endorsed them,
which tells me that there's you know, they were worried
about embarrassing their chosen two candidates to you know, even
if they had gotten five hundred votes and one hundred
people didn't vote or or voted none of the above,

(35:49):
that would have created a real serious pr night mark.
But they didn't care what the rules are they or
what tradition is in that they went ahead and just said, okay,
these are the two guys we choose, you're in, and
a way we go.

Speaker 1 (36:00):
You know who else was voted in by acclamation was
Vice President Kamala Harris.

Speaker 2 (36:09):
Well, okay, that shows you what we get for that
kind of activity. So anyway, I know, I keep coming
back to this. This is not representative of the vatious Republicans,
you know, this is this is just a small group
of people trying to inflict their vision of the world
on everybody else. And they can't do it by winning

(36:31):
elections outside these small party elections. They can only do
it by this kind of activity. Because if these people,
well we saw that two years ago their candidates that
they put up failed to succeed in an actual broader election.
So what's their answer not get better candidates or find

(36:53):
better policies. It's let's take away the right for others
to decide.

Speaker 1 (36:58):
Yeah, there was also a couple of folks from the
podium we were talking about, you know, I wish I
had a wedding to go to this weekend. I don't
have a wedding to go to this weekend, taking, like,
you know, potshots at Governor Armstrong. I find that to
be hilarious because that that that is a model that
is unsustainable, and that is part of what is the

(37:20):
problem is that this this populous statust wing takes potshots
unveiled or veiled potshots that they all the insiders understand.

Speaker 2 (37:31):
Well, I'm glad it's over and now we can move
on to the premer Welcome.

Speaker 1 (37:35):
Back to Dakota Morning as I'm your host, Michael Bell
kfoy or five fifty Am then a nine point seven FM.
We are joined on the phone by North Dakota Public
Service Commissioner Serry Haugenhefert Scherry. Good morning, Thank you for
taking the time to join us this morning.

Speaker 3 (37:51):
Well, good morning, Happy Monday.

Speaker 1 (37:53):
Happy Monday. Yeah, well it's gonna be a beautiful week.
I mean, I'm supposed we're supposed to get snow on Friday,
but we'll just keep that between us. How you, how
are you? How are you doing? How is uh? How's
everything it's been? You know, you are the I characterize
uh people who have been on a number of times
to go to mornings I characterize as grizzled veterans. You
are a grizzled veteran of grizzled veterans, and I certainly

(38:15):
appreciate and deeply appreciate your contributions.

Speaker 3 (38:19):
Well, thank you so much. It's my honor to be
out here, and as I navigate day to day with
the Public Service commission, I know we have a lot
of work to do on getting the word out on
what the PSC does and have jurisdiction over and what
we do not have jurisdiction over right, which is.

Speaker 1 (38:38):
A really important distinction. And in conversations with you, with Randy,
with Jill, there's a really important distinction there. So I'd
like to tell I'd like you to walk us through
again what the jurisdiction, what's your jurisdiction is in in
certain in certain areas, and then we can expand upon that.

Speaker 3 (38:57):
Okay, you know, we're constitutional agency, So we have jurisdiction
over economic regulation where rate cases be it for electric
and natural gas. We are we participate in the RTO

(39:17):
markets MISO and SPP. We do sighting evaluate sighting permits
for energy conversion transmission facilities including electric generation, gas processing,
oil refinery, pipelines, electric transmission, and wind. We also have oversights,

(39:39):
avoids and measures to ensure that the operation of all
weighing and measuring devices used in commercial through inspections, audit
and quality assurance testing. So we go out. I went
out with one of the inspectors to Walmart and we
tested every scale in Walmart to make sure it was

(40:00):
not only for the consumer on paying the prices, but
also for the business. I've also been out to gas stations.

Speaker 1 (40:07):
Yeah, that's where it's important.

Speaker 3 (40:10):
With the gas prices going up, i want to make
sure I'm getting the right amount for the price on
paying and look at the pump. You'll see the PSC
has the certification out there, abandoned Lineman line, mind lands AML,
the coal mining reclamation, gas pipeline safety, railroads damage prevention,

(40:36):
call before you dig, and telecommunication. Those are the broad
oversight on what we have at the northe Code Public
Service Commission.

Speaker 1 (40:45):
I'd like to take a minute to focus on the
weights and measures aspect. You just highlighted that you went.
You personally went out to a Walmart. You personally went
to a gas station. This is really important and it
this is one of the things highlighting this, I think
is what's going to help re establish trust in our
public servants, elected officials like yourself. You know, going out
to a gas station on a regular basis to ensure

(41:08):
that a gallon of gas is a gallon of gas
is critically important not only to the gas station but
also to the consumer. How often do you guys get
to gas stations throughout North Dakota.

Speaker 3 (41:23):
Well, there's a requirement that they have to get to
everything within fifteen months, so they are very diligent on
going out and meeting the requirements of their inspections. We
have three inspectors. They cover a lot of ground.

Speaker 1 (41:42):
There's a lot of gas stations.

Speaker 3 (41:45):
Yeah, well just think of everything that they do from
gas stations to grocery stations to Tooty Fruity to make
sure you're getting the right amount of ice cream. There's
a commercial scale. They're out there evaluating it. Now.

Speaker 1 (42:06):
You you talked, you talked a little bit about some
of the other jurisdictions that you have. What what do
you spend most of your time focusing on?

Speaker 3 (42:17):
Well, it depends on what comes.

Speaker 1 (42:19):
In, depends on what day it is.

Speaker 3 (42:24):
But I will tell you one day it just made
I was reading a right case. Then I had to
talk to a staff about a damage prevention. Then there
was a telecommunication order I was reading. I can go
on in a day. We should touch everything depends on

(42:46):
what comes before us, what's due, et cetera. But I'm
going to tell you one of the things that are
taking a lot of time on what we have is
we have a lot of sighting cases a lot right now.
You know, we have several open cases. We're waiting to
make a decision on some. But it is for me exciting,

(43:07):
even though we do have a natural gas rate case
before us too.

Speaker 1 (43:11):
Okay, And I also want to highlight you know, we've
spoken about this before. I've spoken with Randy about it
and with Jill about it, but I want to highlight
it again. The Public Service Commission in North Dakota does
not have jurisdiction over electricity co ops.

Speaker 3 (43:29):
Correct. We do not regulate cooperative as far as their rates.
Their rates are said by their board of directors.

Speaker 1 (43:38):
And fortunately we have had a regular procession of folks
on the PSC who have come from these from these boards.

Speaker 3 (43:49):
Yeah on one.

Speaker 1 (43:50):
Yeah, Well, I wanted to highlight that because that gives
you an expertise on not only what your jurisdiction is,
but what your jurisdiction is not.

Speaker 3 (44:01):
Right, right, So we don't have We do not regulate
the co ops Okay. They are governed by a border directors. Uh.

Speaker 1 (44:13):
And and you know going down the road on that, uh,
you and and and Randy and Jill, you all work
really closely with the Regional Transmission organizations, the RTOSU, SPP,
and MISO.

Speaker 3 (44:30):
That's correct. We have representation of a commissioner on each
of those plus our staff. Everyone in our Public Utility
Division staff is also engaged in the rto fine world.

Speaker 1 (44:46):
And just to draw that back a little bit, this
is how North Dakota achieves the lowest electricity rates in
the country. It's our hard working coal miners are gas folks,
oil and gas folks. This is how UH North Dkota
achieved the lowest electricity rates in the United States while
also ensuring reliability.

Speaker 3 (45:07):
That's correct. I'm proud to say that North Dkota has
the lowest electric rates in the nation and it comes
from our oversight. It also comes from the industry oversight
because they know that we're going to hold them accountable
on doing whatever they can to keep electricity affordable but

(45:29):
also reliable.

Speaker 1 (45:32):
And those two things, affordability and reliability have been the
hallmark of not only your your hallmark, but previous public
service commissioners going back years. Those two things have been
the most important components affordability and reliability.

Speaker 3 (45:50):
Right, And I don't I want to explain what happens
when we get a rate case. When it comes in
we assign staff, increasing advocacy staff.

Speaker 1 (46:05):
If yeah, if if if an electricity provider wants to
increase their rates.

Speaker 3 (46:13):
Correct, correct, So we assign advocacy staff. And we generally,
we've always assigned since I've been here, an outside council.
And I'm proud you don't say Mitch Armstrong outside council.
And they, yes, they go through that application very very detailed,

(46:39):
and they have communications with the I owe you on
they start picking away on stuff that they know us
as a commissioner, as a commissioned staff, will not allow.
They spend numerous times and I'll tell you almost I
will say with certain every page of that application and

(47:03):
those numbers are looked at. So they get into that process.
We as staff, as commissioners, we can't talk to them
at all, and we can't talk to each other about
the case. And they generally have reached a settlement agreement.

(47:27):
And if you sit and look at anything that you
have done in life, how much does it come to
an agreement a compromise a lot of what we do
this has to do with compromise. The utility company needs
to make money to go in and keep their system reliable.

Speaker 1 (47:52):
They're a for profit enterprise.

Speaker 3 (47:55):
Yeah, if not, they would be back every year for
a rate increase.

Speaker 1 (48:01):
Serry, I want to get deeper into this, but we
need to go to a commercial break. This is Dakota Mornings.
I'me your host, Michael Bell, kfy R five fifty AM,
not a nine point seven FM. We are joined on
the phone by North Dakota Public Services Commissioner. Easy for
me to say, Cherry hagen Hofert, and we will be
back after this short commercial break. Welcome back to Dakota Mornings.

(48:22):
I'm your host, Michael Bell. We are joined on the
phone by North Dakota Public Service Commissioner Cherry hagen Hofert,
and we are discussing Sherry, and I appreciate you you
highlighting this a very specific and important event which takes place,
which is the discussion of a rate case and all
of the great minds that go into resolving this and

(48:43):
coming to a compromise, which you know, obviously the electricity
companies for lack of a better term, there's a couple
of different versions of it, but they are for profit
except co ops. They are for profit enterprises and they
deserve and have earned the right to generate revenue based
on that, but there is a lot of care and

(49:03):
consideration that goes into this at the staff level first
and then a commission level.

Speaker 3 (49:09):
That's correct. Our advocacy staff and legal counsel really dig
into it and go through everything and to understand. And
then when if it's since my tenure here a settlement
agreement has been reached, then that settlement agreement comes before

(49:30):
the commission and we have a formal hearing and where
we go through everything again, so it is scrutinized. And
like you said, they need a rate of return because
they have operations that they need to do to keep
the system reliable. They have maintenance, they have staff, they

(49:54):
have equipment. They need money to keep things going too.
And we as commissioners ask some tough questions. And I
will tell you one of the first things I ask
when it comes to a great case the electric or
natural gas, before you even submitted your application, quantify for
me what you gave up.

Speaker 1 (50:17):
Okay, what do you mean by that?

Speaker 3 (50:19):
Well, that means for them to take a hard look
at what they're requesting and not even put it in
the application if it is just not imperative at this
point in time.

Speaker 1 (50:32):
Okay, I say needs not once once, not needs.

Speaker 3 (50:35):
Yeah, and we all give up something, I'm sure financially
as we go about. And companies do too, and they
know that they have to quantify for us some of
the stuff that didn't even make the application.

Speaker 1 (50:51):
And you're talking about routine maintenance. But also one of
the one of their tasks is their future. What they
what they anticipate needing in the future.

Speaker 3 (51:05):
Yeah. It could be maybe staff positions, maybe upgrades in software,
it could be vehicles. You know, it would be nice
to have, sure, but can we foregal for another couple
of years.

Speaker 1 (51:23):
Yeah, in order to keep the rates the lowest in
the United States.

Speaker 3 (51:28):
Yes, Yes, So it's a it's a process, and it's
not just a rubber stamp. There is no rubber stamping
because number one, we have to uphold the law. We
have to do the due diligence work through the law
and that's our job to uphold the law, nothing more,

(51:49):
nothing less. But we have to be accountable to the
law in which we adjudicate a claim and electric grade case.

Speaker 1 (51:57):
Yeah, and I don't want to jump on the like
tricity providers here in North Dakota, they do a sensational
job of ensuring that every time you walk into a
room and you flip a switch, lights come on. There
is there is a lot of work and a lot
of time and a lot of money spend by these
electricity providers here in North Dakota to ensure that when

(52:17):
you plug your phone in, you plug your iPhone in,
it's going to start charging immediately. They deserve a lot
of credit for the care that they put into that.

Speaker 3 (52:26):
Well, just think of the reliability. How many things did
you turn on this morning from the moment you got
up or shut off? Like your alarm, you know, your alarm,
your shower, your TV. Then when you made a cup
of coffee, you got in your car, and how many

(52:48):
pipelines underneath did you go over? Maybe you went over
a railroad track. But then you get to work and
you turn the light on your computer on, you know
all that touches.

Speaker 1 (53:02):
Yeah, and you know if you filled your car up again.

Speaker 3 (53:06):
Yeah, but everything you've turned on or off, did you think, Wow, yeah,
I got electricity.

Speaker 1 (53:14):
Somebody is working to make sure that that is the
cheapest electricity and the most reliable electricity there are. Well,
I shouldn't say somebody. There are thousands and thousands of
people that are working to ensure that it's cheap and reliable.

Speaker 3 (53:32):
Right, that's correct in twenty four seven, three sixty five
days a year.

Speaker 1 (53:39):
What else? So, you know, we just have a couple
of minutes here, but and then we're going to go
to a commercial break and we come back we want
to talk about some other things. But what do you
enjoy the most about being a public service commissioner?

Speaker 3 (53:53):
Just reading, reviewing the applications and understanding it, but also
be boots on the ground, going out and touring sites.
I've been to Kyote, I've stood on top of COEO
two C questration. I've been out on ways to measure
the inspection gas pipeline safety inspections, watching them put in

(54:18):
new gas pipelines, and then the second part watching it
from the main going to the house installing on the
natural gas. Yeah, you know, there's nothing I don't like
about my job.

Speaker 2 (54:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (54:34):
One of the things you and I have talked about
in the past is how much you enjoy being an
advocate for the people. It's it's it's part of your
DNA And yeah, I appreciate that characterization. I appreciate that
you get up in the morning and that's the first
thing you think of. But I but I don't. I
don't want to overlay of the technical parts of the
job because you really enjoy being most importantly an advocate

(54:56):
for the people.

Speaker 3 (54:58):
Yeah. You know, when we we go out, when we
have a hearing and it comes to public comments, we
have sat and listened to every single person who comes
before us, and I know I do. I write down
the per person's name and their concern and we hear them.

(55:20):
We hear them. Sadly, some of the stuff that they
have concerns about is not in our jurisdiction. We have
no authority over it.

Speaker 1 (55:30):
We need to go to a commercial break. This is
Dakota Mornings. I'm your host, Michael Bell kfy R five
fifty AM, then and nine point seven FM. We are
joined on the phone by Sherry hougen Hoefert, North Dakota
Public Service Commissioner, and we will be back. Welcome back
to Dakota Mornings. I'm your host, Michael Bell, kfy R
five fifty am, then nine point seven FM. We are

(55:50):
joined by Sherry haugen Hoefert, North Dakota Public Service Commissioner
and Scherry, I'd like to do a little bit of
political here the you made the conscious decision with you know,
your your your family, your advisors not to attend the
Republican State Convention. Can you take us a little bit
through how you arrived at that decision and you know

(56:13):
are are you? Are you pleased and satisfied with your decision?

Speaker 3 (56:18):
Well, the decision is over with and done with, so
I'm just going to keep moving on. I have met
all the requirements, so I will be on the primary ballot.

Speaker 1 (56:27):
Congratulations and thank you yep.

Speaker 3 (56:30):
For a six year term and eager to get out there.
I have been working hard since actually September. I started
kicking off my campaign, meeting with people, went to some
of the district meetings. Still I will go hard until
the general election in November.

Speaker 1 (56:52):
And it's you have a you have a primary opponent
now who is endorsed. I'm not even sure that the
bylaws are are okay. In one of the things that
I characterized this morning, and I characterized the numbers incorrectly,
I said seventy thousand people voted in the primary election
in twenty twenty four. It was actually ninety thousand people
voted in the primary in twenty twenty four. Were you

(57:18):
anticipating that the North Dakota Republican Party would work to
try to have six hundred people decide a general election
nominee as opposed to ninety thousand.

Speaker 3 (57:32):
You know, they did what they thought was right. But
you know, I'm just going to work hard and be
successful in the primary and hopefully they will see I
come to the Public Service Commission with knowledge, skills, ability,
and honesty and integrity.

Speaker 1 (57:50):
Well, let's take us Let's give you a little bit
of background here. We take it a little bit through
your career. How'd you get your start and how did
you how were you appoint You were appointed initially to
the Public Service Commission.

Speaker 3 (58:05):
That's true. When Governor Bergram appointed Brian Kroch's to the
Tax Commission, there was an opening and at first I said, oh,
I don't know if I'm going to do it. And
I can clearly remember standing in my kitchen, I picked
up my cell phone and I called Governor Burghram and

(58:26):
he didn't answer, but I left a message that I'm interested,
and I put down my phone and I said, what
happened there? Very clearly, I'm like, Lord, whatever your will is,
I'm willing to do it. Amen. Amen, and I got appointed,
and I said, Okay, that's where I'm meant to be.

(58:47):
And now every day I say a prayer, Lord, lead me,
guide me, put the right people in front of me,
and give me the wisdom, and I will do my
campaign in my work that way. And how I really
got interested in the Public Service Commission is I was

(59:07):
serving on two co op boards. My home co op,
Capital Electric, I started in two ten and then we
are part of Central Power in Mine at the GNT,
and Capital Electric Board of Directors elected me to serve
in mine it on the GNT. So I was learning

(59:28):
everything from transmission, generation, transmission and distribution. And at that
time there was a lot going on where the rtos
were coming in and making decisions about joining the rto
the regulations. Not so much, you know, serving on Capital.
We just wanted to be at the table and get

(59:50):
a large load, you know, to help. But you know
it wasn't but we kept growing. They kept growing, you know,
with resident cential. But I've also wor been involved on
the political arena with the North Dakota Republican Party, helping
run campaigns, being on the executive committee. And someone said

(01:00:13):
to me, you don't share you've always been behind the scenes.
Why don't you get out there and do it too,
practice what you preach yep. And I was grateful for
Governor Burgham to appoint me and then I ran in
twenty twenty two because that's the indication. Once you're appointed,
you have to run in the next general election. I

(01:00:34):
did and I was successful. I believe was seventy percent
of the vote.

Speaker 1 (01:00:38):
Yeah, just short a seventy one percent of the vote.
It was an impressive show.

Speaker 3 (01:00:44):
Yeah. And I worked hard and I will continue to
work hard. Like I said, I have been working hard
on my campaign, getting out there since September. Almost every
week I'm doing something, be it either being on the
phone with someone or speaking to a group and fundraising.

Speaker 1 (01:01:05):
Well and and and we know that that that politics,
running for election takes money. And I appreciate you highlighting that.
What are your priorities for your next term? What are
the priorities that you talk to uh, talk to people
about these these groups that you meet with on a
such a regular basis.

Speaker 3 (01:01:27):
Well. Obviously, reliability and affordability go hand in hand. Amen's sister,
especially with all the talk regarding data centers so out
there talking about the reliability that you and I want
to turn on our lights if at all times and

(01:01:50):
keep our costs low. So the talk usually gets in
with data centers and who's going to pay and to
ensure in my day to day job at the Commission
that if a large lotus coming in that they pay
for any upgrades or needs that need to be done

(01:02:10):
to that system and not the consumers.

Speaker 1 (01:02:13):
And they are.

Speaker 3 (01:02:15):
Oh yeah, yeah, so we I mean for those that
we regulate, it's my job to ensure that they are
that none of none of those costs are being passed
on to right payers. And people need to remember we
as commissioners are also righte payers. Yeah you know. So

(01:02:37):
I'm like, we're we're looking out for all rape payers
and we are rape pairers too, So that reliability affordability.
But the other thing that has really come to light
for me is informing people on what the PSC does

(01:02:58):
in where we have jurisdiction over there's a lot of
land and I'm going a touch on it. There's a
lot of landowner issues. I get it. There's landowner fatigue,
there's landowner frustration on treatment, there's landowner frustration on maybe truthfulness,

(01:03:18):
and it's sad to say. I mean, if that's happening,
that's terrible. But the North Scota Public Service Commission has
no jurisdiction over easements that are reached between a landowner,
between private parties.

Speaker 1 (01:03:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:03:34):
Right, And many times people come to our hearings, especially
as citing and hearing, and they all talk about their easements.
We listen to them, but we have no jurisdiction.

Speaker 1 (01:03:46):
Well, very often what you have that that I've noticed
in a lot of these Counting Commission meetings is that
you have people come landowners complaining about easements that their
neighbors have undertaken. I find that to be, you know,
a bit disingenuine because when you're talking about, you know,
my neighbor's land that's you know, two miles away, is

(01:04:06):
creating dust in you know, on my land. This is
this is the way commerce works in the United States.

Speaker 3 (01:04:14):
Yeah, I mean, we hear again it's not nice to hear,
but neighbor against neighbor, those are things that are true.
They're very true to them. You could hear it in
their voice, in their hearts. They have a lot of
passion about it. But we have no jurisdiction. Now, if
during construction and stuff like dust mitigation and stuff. Oh yeah,

(01:04:39):
the company needs to be held accountable and trying to
keep that dust down not impact farmers as they're out
there putting in their crop, et cetera. If there's crop
damage things like that. Yeah, that's within an application and
we have some oversight on and we do address it
immediately with the company and hopefully there's a resolution between

(01:05:03):
the company and the landowners.

Speaker 1 (01:05:05):
Can you explain, you know, there's there's been a lot
of human cry about data centers increasing residential electricity rates.
That is a flat out lie. There is no capacity
for data centers to increase residential rates. Can you explain
to us why that is.

Speaker 3 (01:05:24):
Well, it's it's the agreement between the data centers what
they're bringing to the table financially and with the electrical
company be it, you know, the ones we regulate the
agreement that they do. We approve a rate, you know
what they can be charged, but that agreement is between them,

(01:05:47):
and our oversight would be either in a transmission writer
or a right case to evaluate that those costs that
came from in the data center are not put on
right are not put on the right payers.

Speaker 1 (01:06:05):
And this goes back to your you know, advocacy on
behalf of North Dakotan's rate paying nord to cotins.

Speaker 3 (01:06:13):
Mm hmm. Correct.

Speaker 1 (01:06:15):
And you've been at this quite a while, so you
you you have a pretty good grasp of the issues involved.

Speaker 3 (01:06:24):
The issues in the monitoring on if there's an executive
order that comes down that touches our jurisdiction, we monitor that,
not only the commissioners, but our staff, our legal counsel.
You know, we talk about that is to ensuring that
things are have oversight.

Speaker 1 (01:06:47):
And again, you know, getting into the nitty gritty on this,
your staff weighs incredibly deeply into these issues on a
regular basis. This isn't something that they've been dealing with
for six months. This is something they've been dealing with
for you know, nearly twenty years. Uh. North Dakota's are
built to do hard things. It's it's part of the
success of the BACAN and the continued success of the BACAN.

(01:07:12):
This is not the first time that your staff has
seen this type of thing.

Speaker 2 (01:07:18):
Correct.

Speaker 3 (01:07:19):
Correct. There's two more things I really would like to
rest it on, Michael, if you have Number one is
on citing cases. They are getting hard because of people's
involvement in maybe wanting moratoriums on stuff. I understand people

(01:07:39):
don't want it in my backyard or some of those
things they bring out, But if things go that way,
there's pretty soon going to be no economic development in
North Dakota.

Speaker 1 (01:07:55):
Yeah, that's I mean, that's a that's a great observation,
you know. And and going a little bit further beyond
that point is the companies that are in that are
putting these data centers in, they want to be part
of the community. They don't want widespread resentment over their presence.

Speaker 3 (01:08:13):
Well I heard from a small talent said, we would
love a data center because we are dying. We are dying.
If we don't get something in, we are gonna whether away.
But I'm not just talking about data centers. I'm talking
about transmission lines. I'm talking about pipelines. I'm talking about
other stuff. We North Dakota has a lot of resources.

(01:08:37):
We can export energy, we can we have natural gas,
you know, look at the pipeline that's coming in, you know.
But these more autoriums and stuff. Think long term, sure,
it's going to impact economic development in North Dakota. And
then what.

Speaker 1 (01:08:59):
We need to go to a commercial break. This is
Dakota Morning As I am your host, Michael Bell kfy
R five fifty am, then A nine point seven FM.
We are joined by Public Service Commissioner Cherry Hagenhofert, and
we are talking about well, all things Public Service Commission related.
Welcome back to you Dakota Mornings. I'm your host, Michael
Bell kfy R five fifty am, ben A nine points

(01:09:20):
seven FM. We are joined on the phone by Sherry Hagenhofert,
nor Dakota Public Service Commissioner, and Sherry, I had to
we had to go to commercial break there, so I'd
like you to go ahead and continue talking where you
were explaining something very.

Speaker 3 (01:09:32):
Important, Well, I'm going to go on to the next one.

Speaker 2 (01:09:37):
I perfect we could cover with that.

Speaker 3 (01:09:39):
I want to emphasize our website and all the information
that's out there on our website.

Speaker 1 (01:09:44):
Oh what a great idea.

Speaker 3 (01:09:45):
Thank you PSC dot nd dot gov. And when you
go there, you're going to see upcoming meetings and hearings
and you can be a part. Like on Wednesday, we
have our regular commission meeting. You can go and watch

(01:10:06):
it on live stream us what we're bringing forth at
our commission meeting the orders, the discussion and the decision,
and we do that with our commission meetings and our
special meetings. Also on tomorrow we have a formal hearing.

(01:10:30):
It's an investigation into home protection plans, and you can
listen to the formal hearing. You can go log in
and listen to us on what we do and the discussion.
So it's our formal meetings, informal, our work session. They're
out there. And then we also have a case search

(01:10:54):
where if there's a certain case you want to go
and look at it, you can look it up. You
can see everything that's been put in the docket, except
trade secret information will not be in there, but you
have access to every piece of information that we as
commissioners do, So that is something I encourage people to

(01:11:17):
go out there and look. You can view past meetings
and you'll hear the audio recording, not the live picture,
but you'll hear the audio recording up there. We also
have our rules, lots of rules under which we are
obligated to follow, our jurisdiction, and the case search, so

(01:11:41):
there's a lot of information out there on our website
on you can review what we've done and what we've
talked about. You can see what's coming up and be
a part of and you can go back and look
in each case and find all the details.

Speaker 1 (01:11:58):
Well, and I appreciate you highlighting this specifically your website
in the interactivity of it. This is what transparency and
government looks like. Everything you guys do is there for
the public to not only listen or view or comment on,
but also to discern your priorities. You're very very clear

(01:12:19):
in there.

Speaker 3 (01:12:22):
Yeah, we are. And when we go out to a
citing case out in the communities where they're impacted, we
go through things what we are here to go through
on the hearing, and then we talked to the public.
They come up, they have the opportunity to come before

(01:12:45):
us and say things on things that maybe we don't know.
Maybe there's a historical site here or you know, a landslide,
et cetera. One of the things I wanted to talk
about with a sighting case is is a number of
state and federal agencies that often review the siding. And

(01:13:10):
I mean, we work with them, so it's not just oh,
here's the route, here's the corridor, this is what we're
going to do. They are their statutory requirements that they
have to avoid. There's exclusion and avoidance areas that they
they have to avoid, and those state agencies that are

(01:13:32):
involved in those areas, who are the experts give us
their opinion. So there's a lot of work that goes
into us a citing case.

Speaker 1 (01:13:41):
Yeah, and it's a it's a formal process. And you
know we can as a as a North Kota citizen,
as a citizen of anywhere, we can review all those documents,
all those comments.

Speaker 3 (01:13:54):
Absolutely absolutely, And we do have a consumer affairs department
and we help with if someone calls in about a
billing dispute working with the IOU. We've worked there. We
do get calls regarding cooperatives. We say we have nose jurisdiction.

(01:14:16):
People call in, they submit emails about a case. Those
all get read.

Speaker 1 (01:14:21):
Surey Hagin Houford, North Dakota Public Service Commissioner, thank you
so much for taking the time to join us this morning.

Speaker 3 (01:14:28):
You're welcome.