Bill Chaves Pod_EP 196

On the Season 8 finale of the #ChavesPod, Bill and Alex are joined by Heather Weems of the NCHC for a big-picture conversation on all things college hockey, from age-based eligibility to changes coming to the new-look NCHC (2:49). After an update from the Summit League Outdoor Track and Field Championships and a look at the summer plans around UND Athletics (38:46), it’s a prediction-heavy B-Side (44:17), as the fate of Spurs, Arsenal, and the FIFA World Cup are debated.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
You're listening to the Bill Shapes Podcast presented by Mid
Coast Sports. Do not miss some of you in These
greatest ever athletes on the track and in the field
aim for glory at the some of the outdoor track
and Field Championships happening this weekend May fifteenth and sixteenth,
live on mid Coast Sports. Be sure to keep up
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behind the scenes content, and more. That's Mid Coast Sports.

(00:23):
This is how we do sports. And this is the
season finale of the Bill Shapes Podcast.

Speaker 2 (00:33):
As the weather, As the weather finally turns to let's
just say summer.

Speaker 1 (00:38):
Alex, we're out. That's how it goes. Once we get
to eighty degrees, we're done. No more podcast, take a break.
Welcome to another edition of the Bill Shapes Podcast, the
season eight finale, Alex Sinner. Phil shaves a special guest
who we're going to have on in just a second.
It's a special Friday pod again. We've got that summer fever.

(00:58):
It's Friday, sixty minutes away from throwing his papers up
in the air and running out the door. Very exciting times,
Bill around your office around the University of North Dakota.
How are things.

Speaker 2 (01:09):
Doing great, Alex? Yeah, for sure. We had to do
a Friday recording because we've got track and field, as
you mentioned in the open, down in Fargo, So I'm
going to shoot down there tomorrow and then Summit League
meetings followed by other meetings and other meetings, and we
just came off of meetings, so tis it's meeting season, Alex.

(01:31):
That's what it is.

Speaker 1 (01:32):
Kind of the opposite of picturing Bill running to the beach.
It's very different than that, unfortunately, but we appreciate your
efforts certainly to go and be in those meetings and
have those conversations.

Speaker 2 (01:43):
But I should say this though, it is the super
Bowl of what you do in colleges, right. So we
have our graduation tomorrow, so that'll be awesome. So we're gonna,
you know, say congratulations to a number of our student athletes.
We always do a little bit of a pro band.
We give them a graduation stole, and so we'll do

(02:03):
that at eleven am tomorrow morning. And then there's two
graduation ceremonies, one at one o'clock, one at four o'clock.
So that's always exciting to see the parents come back.
And as we always like to say, Alex, there's there's
two days that are pretty emotional. One is when you
drop your son or daughter off and then the other
one is when they actually cross the stage and pick
up a degree. So those are those are cool days.

Speaker 1 (02:25):
Yeah, very special. That's always that's the end goal of
being a student athlete on the college level. You want
a degree, you want to graduate, and it's awesome to
see these kids being able to complete that dream for
many maybe the first and their family for some generations
of kids that have done this, that have gone through
their families across the stage. So it's just a special,
special time. So certainly congratulations to all those graduates from

(02:47):
und and from around our region in our listening area.
Let's transition to our guests. We have a special guest
who's on for the second time this year, a multiple
time guest. We had her back on in November. Since then,
her reference has captured their eighth national championship in the
last ten years, pretty good, third in a row. She
joins US now at the end of her fourth season,

(03:08):
the start of her fifth year as commissioner of the
National Collegiate Hockey Conference, a conference that just continues to
grow and expand and do great things. She's Heather Wims.
We appreciate her taking some time to join us today.

Speaker 3 (03:18):
Thank you, Heather, Thanks Alex and Bill. It's always great
to be on and I do want to highlight bill
your comments just about graduation and the importances of that
as a super Bowl. So often in our sports world
we lose sight sometimes amidst all of the energy and
the ups and downs and what do they say, the
thrill of victory and agony of defeat. But ultimately we

(03:41):
are here to educate and graduate students and help them
start a path that likely for many of them won't
be in professional athletics. Certainly, for those who are, kudos
to them and we will support them all the way.
But for lots of them, they have done everything that
we have asked of them in the classroom in our
communities and are such a vibrant, important part of our campuses.

(04:04):
So congratulations to your graduates and the mini across the
across our conference who will be or have walked the
stage in the last couple of weeks.

Speaker 2 (04:14):
Absolutely tis the season for sure, and we're excited about it.
And you're right, I think some of the lessons you
learn right in competing, you're just going to translate into
whatever they do in life. So excited about it tomorrow
for sure. So we'll do our little ceremony with them
in the morning, and then I'll shoot down to Fargo
and go watch and see if our track and field
teams can compete at the highest level in the Summit League.

(04:37):
So that's tomorrow, so it should be fun, very good.

Speaker 1 (04:40):
We'll discuss some of those things on the track side,
get ready for the summer, all those things later. We
have had their weeams here now though, and we are
going to discussed We just talked about winning a national title.
It was a little over a month ago that the
confetti was coming down in Las Vegas, Denver, winning their
eleventh national championship. It has been a bit of a
whirlwind since then in your world, probably the crazy maybe
five weeks of an off season that you, I would

(05:03):
imagine you and everybody else have ever had catch us
up on some of the things.

Speaker 2 (05:08):
Yes, we have.

Speaker 1 (05:09):
We have. We have as much time as you've got, Heather,
we can go through that.

Speaker 3 (05:13):
Yes, as you mentioned, it has not been you know,
walks on the beach since the end of the season.
Just a couple of things that I want to highlight
before we start, you know, moving forward. Yes, what a
wonderful season and amidst all of the chaos that maybe
is just change and landscape and everything else. First of all,

(05:33):
congratulations to Denver and excellent showing there a.

Speaker 2 (05:36):
Very, very much to get.

Speaker 3 (05:38):
David Carl coached games a lot of poison grace even
when they were behind, and I think again it just
goes to show that iron sharpens iron and they have
a lot of experience with that through the year. I
will also say and a big thank you to North Dakota.
From the feedback that we got, Las Vegas was a
home run or that's probably not the right terminology, but

(06:01):
it really was a great venue. I didn't talk to,
or see or hear from anybody who didn't think that
it should be a regular in our rotation. The location
of the arena and just the energy and and it's
what it's what Vegas does. It entertains. There was nobody
who who was, you know, in a hurry to get

(06:23):
out of there, per se. I think that it has
a lifespan. You don't stay more than four or five days,
but you pack everything in. So again, I think that
that was a huge success. And and you know, the
work that Bill Staphf does and flowing that off at
a at a neutral site is phenomenal, So thank you
to them. I also just want to say we don't

(06:44):
want to forget college hockey is in its strongest position ever.
You know, again, you know we're talking about a lot
of other things as well, but the talent pool, I
think we all saw it this past year with the
addition of of HL players. It increased the parity of
the game, increase the excitement and skill level of the game.
Our university investments are real, and you know, hockey on

(07:08):
so many of our campuses, certainly in the NCHCA, but
really across the country is a flagship sport and our
institutions and our members continue to invest and prioritize hockey
in the work and the conversations that they do. And
then again, player development, and you know, I say this
and believe it wholeheartedly, the player development that happens. You know,
the games that you're watching in October are very different

(07:30):
than the games that you're watching in March, and there's
a lot of credit just to skill development over time,
but to the excellence in coaching. And you know, if
I try and boil things down to me in our league,
that is one of the things that sets us apart.
We just have phenomenal coaches, and there is such a
one size fits all. There isn't one style that makes
it work. But we have phenomenal coaches who I think

(07:52):
are our masters at player development and you see that throughout.
So again, college hockey is in a great space. The
NACHC continues to be the premier conference in college hockey,
as as identified by four berths in the in the regionals,
two in the national Championship, fifty percent of that field,
and the and the final winner as well as the

(08:13):
Hobie Beaker winner. So I feel really good about what
we're doing. But more importantly, just our members are bought
in and they do it the right way.

Speaker 2 (08:25):
Agreed, Heather, and I agree with Vegas. They did a
phenomenal job. They really did, and I think you're right.
I think, you know, knock on wood. Hopefully they will
be part of the rotation and we'll see what transpires
as the bids go out. Again, a lot of off
the ice type stuff happening right now, and I would
like in maybe the NCAA trying to gather gather all

(08:50):
the sports under one umbrella, almost like you're in a
department and you're trying to get all your head coaches
on the same page, but they have to actually worry
about their right and so so I think you know
you're you're dealing with something right now with potential eligibility.
I'll call them quote unquote issues that you've been working
on pretty significantly over the last several weeks.

Speaker 3 (09:14):
Yes, so, age based eligibility is the terminology that we
are using, and certainly in our space of college hockey,
because we have enjoyed the delayed enrollment rule for decades,
it has you know, certainly created some consternation and some
challenge in terms of how we go forward. That said,

(09:37):
I think that the commissioners group across all of national hockey,
the timing of the of the AHEC meetings down in
Florida worked really well. Bill. You will remember that the
announcement about the age based eligibility came out I believe
on the Wednesday prior to the frozen four, so a
day before you all played on that Thursday, and and

(09:59):
you know, the we're NCAA representatives in Las Vegas, and
that began some of the conversation. I think where I
will will start us is is that even those of
us in hockey understand and actually support the concept of
the rule, like to get to something that is predictable,

(10:19):
and that gets us away from litigation after litigation after
litigation and trying to redefine the rules. I think we
all understand that for the health and sustainability of the
nc double A and our governing body, we have to
create some consistency and some expectations that we can uphold

(10:40):
and that courts will support, so to speak. And so
you know, in terms of the age based and I
know the NCAA is arguing that, you know that that's
kind of a an internationally accepted rule or framework, is
age based eligibility. And so we've been trying, and we've
been going around and around and back and forth with

(11:00):
many of our constituents from the Commissioner's Association, really driving
the conversations to get to a place where actually literally
just you know, within the last half hour, there was
an official document submitted to the NCAA Division One cabinet
in advance of their meetings next on May twenty second,
is that next Friday or Thursday for their meetings. That

(11:23):
is a full package, so within that it's a proposal
from HCA And really what we're asking for is simply
a tweak, a tweak that right now, the rule as
proposed says the earlier of high school graduation or the
age of nineteen, and to us, that makes a significant difference.

(11:46):
And really what we are asking is just that we
go to the age of nineteen and the first fall
season opportunity after you turn nineteen. And I think that
if we could get that, if we could get support
for from the NCUBLEA, that would be a benefit to us.
We understand that we're going to compromise a little bit.

(12:06):
I mean, we are the oldest, and we're the oldest
on average the last five years. Hockey players on average
are twenty points four years of age when they come
into the NCUBLEA. The closest to that is men's basketball
at nineteen point one. So you know, in some scope
you think, oh, a year and a half, that's not

(12:27):
a big deal. In our world, a year and a
half is two years of eligibility in some cases. And so,
but what we understand, because the rule that's put forth
is five years of eligibility, so no more way, very
limited waivers, I will say, not no more, but very
limited waivers really only for pregnancy, active military service, and

(12:49):
religious mission. And then everybody else would start their clock
at five and they would have five years regardless. And again,
if we start at nineteen, what we understand in the
world of college hockey or and junior hockey, we actually
may lose a year on the front end of that
because they may stay for an extra year in juniors.
But across our ecosystem, we don't have nearly as many

(13:13):
kids who are playing five years to begin with, and
so we think that that four years five years with
the first year of eligibility. In some cases, for the
really standout players, they'd come in immediately at eighteen or nineteen,
which would would start their clock. If they needed to
go to another year of juniors, their clock would start
a year later. They'd lose that year of eligibility after nineteen,
and they'd still have four years of play left. And

(13:34):
we think we can absolutely manage that without impacting without
impacting the system and one point that I do want
to make, and I'm pretty passionate about it. Partly I've
had four boys who have played, you know, high school hockey.
I think the part that resonates with me is I
also think very clearly this is in the student athletes's

(13:55):
best interest. Hockey is it different because we're special. We're
not trying to make the argument that we are above
people and we need something different. But what we know
is that there are only twenty states in the country
who actually offer high school hockey, and only thirty two
thousand players who actually play high school hockey, as opposed

(14:19):
to basketball, where there are five My numbers won't be exact,
but roughly five hundred and fifty thousand boys who play
high school basketball over a million boys who play high
school football. So with thirty two thousand and that smaller number.
Part of the reason is it's simply not offered, and
so in order to have elite talent development, kids have

(14:40):
to leave home. And the junior system predates all of this.
I mean, the junior system has been around for eighty
years and it has been It's not a it wasn't
a workaround for college hockey. It was the way to
provide developmental opportunities for kids as they aged out of

(15:02):
youth programs, if they're if their area didn't offer high
level high school or you know, midget bait, midget hockey,
and so it really is part of our ecosystem and
the plan developmental model.

Speaker 2 (15:18):
So let me.

Speaker 3 (15:18):
Stop for a second because I've said a whole bunch,
and then we can we can talk more as well.

Speaker 2 (15:23):
Yeah, I'll just know you're explaining it quite well. And
I know our listeners are pretty well dialed onto this
and they are always concerned or interested on the goings
done as far as behind the scenes, because eligibility is
huge in this regard. The one thing I said to
you prior to the pod that I was really impressed with,

(15:43):
there seems to be a lot of alignment with all
of the folks that that provide hockey at whatever level
that might be. And I would say that sometimes you
don't get that a lot of times, but this one
issue seems to have aligned a hockey world.

Speaker 3 (16:02):
Yeah, it's quite interesting, and I'm just pulling up on
my computer right now. As we all know, it's it's
very rare in our world today, not just in sports,
but in our world to find any sort of unanimous
alignment on any topic, and this one actually we've actually
joked about it in some of our commissioner meetings about

(16:22):
how how incredible it's been really from from all avenues
of how important this has been. So in this packet
that we're sending to the NCAA Cabinet, we have the
leading letter from the Hockey Commissioners Association. We have a
supporting letter from Bill Daily, the Deputy Commissioner of the NHL.

(16:42):
We have a supporting letter from Pat Kelleher, the executive
director of USA Hockey. We have a supporting letter from
Forrest Carr, the executive director of the American Hockey Coaches Association,
from Glad heffern and, the commissioner of the United States
Hockey League. And Dan mackenzie, the president of the Canadian
Hockey League, as well as a couple of infographics were
provided by College Hockey, Inc. And so when you look

(17:03):
at that and include USA Hockey, the junior leagues, the NHL,
and college hockey, I'm actually not sure who's left, you know,
like this really is everybody saying we believe again, we can,
we think that we can, we can, you know, tweak
around the edges, and we think that we can do

(17:23):
a nineteen based model and make that very successful and
not be call it collateral damage. Like I think that's
the biggest piece that we're trying to avoid, is becoming
collateral damage for a rule that overwhelmingly makes sense, but
can be more inclusive simply by making a slight tweak

(17:44):
to making it. I call it truly age based. It's
about nineteen, it's take out high school graduation dates, like
maybe the NCAA shouldn't be messing with high school programs
and what's going to happen there if you make it
truly age based nineteen for all sports hockey obviously driving
that conversation, we think that it's beneficial. It doesn't preclude

(18:08):
students from doing their traditional model of graduating high school
and you know, May or June and going to college
in August or September, but it does give us essentially
the gap year where we can continue without harming our
development model.

Speaker 1 (18:22):
Heather, could you give us a timeline on when you
believe that's a loaded question, but this is essentially something
that is going to go into effect for this coming year.
This will be in the twenty six, twenty seven season, correct,
And so I'm assuming people need to know sooner than
later when what this looks like, what are the specifics?
Kind of talk us through that part of it.

Speaker 3 (18:40):
There's a couple of pieces. So one, the materials go
out to the cabinet today and it's the Division one
cabinet who ultimately hears this and discusses and makes the decision.
They have a meeting Friday, makes it twenty second where
they will review all of this, and it's not just
our materials. They've got a ton of things on their dockets,
so you know, it's not like a one issue by
any stretch. And then they actually I believe, meet the

(19:03):
twenty second and twenty third to vote on the docative
things that they are meeting about now. So twenty second
is the discussion date. Twenty second twenty third of June
is when we anticipate we will get a response. Obviously
there will be lobbying and discussion between now and the
June twenty second twenty third dates, just to try and

(19:25):
help and answer any questions that are out there. Yes,
from what I understand, it would be effective Immediately. There
have been some mitigating documents and I won't have all
of those exactly in my head, but there have been
some midigating documents to help define what it means for
current student athletes. So again going to this five year model,

(19:47):
and in most cases in my terminology won't be exactly verbatim,
but they can use either. So those who are graduating
and finishing their eligibility this year, so we're planning on
expiring their four years of eligibility in five years under
the previous rules in spring of twenty twenty six will

(20:08):
not be grandfathered into it, so they will be done,
and that has already been announced so that coaches across
all sports, so that coaches and student athletes can make
those plans and know they are not getting another year
mitigated where they could play a fifth year. Those who
have a year of eligibility remaining or multiple years of
eligibility remaining can use the better the more. Again, this

(20:32):
is all proposed at this point, but the better of
the two scenarios, so if they've had a red shirt
year because of medical or some other reason, they can
continue to.

Speaker 2 (20:44):
Use that.

Speaker 3 (20:45):
Any of those would need to be Any from this
past year would need to be submitted by July thirty
first of this year in order to be considered for
next year, but they could use either the full five
years or the fifth year that they've been granted through
a medical red shirt or other waiver. So that takes
care of our current student athletes. Where it comes and
it gets a little bit tricky, particularly in hockey, is

(21:08):
that as proposed, it would be effective that those graduating
high school currently, so spring of twenty twenty six would
come into the and bill. If you know anything else,
correct me on anything that I'm saying, But those who
graduate in spring twenty twenty six would come into the
new rules. That would mean that their eligibility five year

(21:30):
eligibility clock would begin with high school graduation or the
age of nineteen, whichever is earlier. Again, for most sports,
that's actually pretty straightforward, and they've kind of done mitigating
risks or mitigating opportunities for that. Where we run into
some issues is that we have a number of student
athletes who have deferred one, two, three years as they

(21:52):
played junior hockey, and so there is some conversation and
continued I mean, that's another part of the proposal that
we put forward is just and we didn't provide the
exact answers for all of that, but we need to
make sure that we're addressing all of those issues because
we have kids who right now, if they came in
as a college freshman this fall and they graduated a

(22:18):
couple of years ago, we want to make sure that
they don't walk in or graduated three years ago with
only two years of eligibility per se. So that's part
of it going forward as well, and that is what
is probably causing a ton of angst for current junior
hockey players and with all of the coaches. You know,
what they're getting is texts and emails saying, tell me

(22:40):
what I'm supposed to do. You know, we were we
were excited to come to North Dakota. We delayed or
deferred based upon conversations that we've had over one or
two or three years, all in good faith, like none
of this is not a good way, and so we've
had all of these conversations. What happens now and I
would go back even you know a little bit further

(23:00):
is that I actually think that we need to make
sure that we are considering mitigation for any student who
has started their high school freshman year because technically the
way that the rules are written under current and again
we want to make the nineteen adjustment, which which I
think solves a lot of this. But a lot of
families plan beginning with their freshman year, and what the

(23:25):
rule says is high school graduation or nineteen whichever is earlier,
based upon traditional high school model. So there was some
concern or traditional high school graduation date, which is essentially
four years high school, because there was some concern that
you would start seeing high school freshmen and sophomores who
would start taking you know, their junior and senior year,

(23:47):
they would turn into three years instead of two. And
I think we want to be careful that we don't
make our athletics issues the issues for high schools to
try and navigate and for their you know, minute or
eight high school associations to have to try and figure
out because typically, you know, you can age out of
that situation as well. So you've got current students who

(24:10):
I think that the plan is pretty solid. I think
that there's still some conversation that needs to happen, particularly
in the sport of hockey around junior players and how
we mitigate and essentially, I mean, we've talked a little
bit about it. As you know, when we transition to
the roster limits, they came back. Initially they went forward
one win, then they came back with the designated student

(24:31):
athlete model. There's a little bit is there something along
those lines where you designate a population for X number
of years or whatever. We decide is to start an
end period of that and say, we understand they were
caught in the middle of this, we want to hold
harmless as much as possible, those who, again under good

(24:53):
faith guidance, were We're doing what we asked of them,
and what the to do.

Speaker 2 (25:01):
I think you're right, Heather. I mean, so a lot
a lot came about. This was floated out, you're right
around frozen four time, and then we were about a
week later going to meetings, and I think, you know,
it was perfect timing for everyone to gather to get unified,
and I think what's been put together is incredibly fair.

(25:25):
Now whether or not that's who knows. You know, what's
what's going to come of it. But ultimately I would
hope that's the reason why it was floated when it
was floated, so that you know, some of these things
could be worked out as we go through and I
think it's logical. I just will see. I mean, listening
to the Night Commission the other day, you know, I

(25:47):
don't think any decision yet has been made, you know,
and from what we understand, and Matt Larson from North
Dakota State is is on the cabinet and is indicating
to us that the these decisions are based on what
your timeline is right now. So the only thing we
do know is the student athletes that are in current

(26:07):
stead that have exhausted eligibility is they're not going to
be eligible for the fifth year. That that we do know,
but there's a lot of other pieces we don't. We
still don't.

Speaker 3 (26:17):
Know, right and I think that decision had to be
made right away because you don't want to leave them in,
you know, in this place of the unknown, and they
need to move on with their lives. As you said,
they're graduating this weekend. They don't they don't need to
add another question mark into you know, what's happening for
next year. So so yeah, we are. We have we

(26:38):
feel like, put an exhaustive, comprehensive package together that we're
going to share. We're going to advocate and make sure
you know, part of our challenge. You know, when it
comes to NCAA Division one cabinet is a single sport conference.
You know, we we only have sixty three programs across
the country who offer Division one hockey. On top of that,

(27:00):
on the cabinet officially there's only a couple of cabinet
members who are at institutions or have previously been at
institutions who have hockey, and so part of it is
part of our effort is simply to educate them, no doubt,
and help them understand that again, this wasn't a loophole
we were trying to use that we're trying to utilize.

(27:22):
This is simply a different developmental pathway. And we've also
highlighted the academic benefits of that. It has actually served
strong purpose. We have graduation rates at the top of
the male sports spectrum. We have you know, academic progress
at the top of the spectrum. Our kids stay and

(27:43):
graduate at a high rate. They do well, they're committed,
they're engaged in their community. So you know, again this
hasn't been We don't want to create a problem that
doesn't actually exist. Hockey doesn't have a problem in an
of itself. Again, if we can mitigate and tweak just
this small piece about the nineteen year and go truly

(28:07):
age based instead of also high school graduation. We think
that we can adapt and be strong and continue, and
I mean we also highlight that part of you know,
what's been for the sport of hockey and Division one
college hockey. What our model has done is it's created
parody because you do have teams that are a little

(28:27):
bit younger and a little bit older, but all of them.
I mean, we say, in the last fifteen years, there
have been schools at all levels FBS, FCS, Division I,
tria A, Division two, Division three, IVY, everybody who's won
a national champion championship, and so you know, it just

(28:47):
it elevates our sport. The way that we've managed has
actually been good. And the interesting part is even the
NCAA admits that they have not gotten litigation from hockey players,
you know, asking for more time at the end our age.
You know, we do have graduates who are who are
twenty three, twenty four to twenty five years old, so

(29:07):
a little bit on the higher end. This would probably
take it back more to the twenty four age, which
really is kind of in the circle of where everybody
is at. So again, I think what we ask is
let's not create problems where they don't exist, and let's
make sure that we mitigate what we need to for
current junior league players, because otherwise you are going to

(29:29):
see a rash of litigation. If you're a kid who's
twenty years old right now and gone back and you know,
I've been in juniors and you come and you only
have two years of eligibility remaining, I think we all
know what the results of that is going to be.
And so let's be proactive and thoughtful on the front end.

Speaker 2 (29:45):
No doubt. And if I think we can provide consistency
across all sports, I think that's what the NCAA is
ultimately looking for, right right, So hey, one other quickie
for me, and I appreciate you spending a little bit
more time with us this time around. So we have
ten teams coming in the NCU. Yeah yeah, So so

(30:06):
so what does that mean?

Speaker 3 (30:09):
Well, what it excites us where we get back to
a little bit more balanced schedule, less buys and and
you know, more predictable in terms of so you know,
last year we had those incremental buys really throughout the
months of January and February. We go back to a
system in which everybody's playing the last weekend of the
of the season. There's buys that generally are going to

(30:30):
fall in the last week and when last weekend of
January and February. So I think that that we're in
a really good space there. You know, we we had
a just a couple of things that I'll bring up.
You know, I think that we had a great transition
into our on campus championships. Uh frozen face off and
really got some some good feedback. You know, it did

(30:52):
what we wanted it to do. We got strong attendance
at those games. You know, it was a really exciting atmosphere,
and from a financial perspective, we probably couldn't have scripted
it much better in terms of Denver and North Dakota
hosting the semi finals. But at the same time, it
gives us some confidence, I think in the financial model
that we put forward. So, you know, we go into

(31:13):
that and all teams will now qualify for the quarterfinals.
We will have five home sites this year. The one
change that we will spend some time this summer just
making sure that we tweak and get right is we
will have that, so there will be five quarterfinals at
the top five sites of the bottom five, and then

(31:34):
we will do the call it the four or five
play in game at the prior to the semi finals.
And as we learned, there are some travel challenges that
happen when you're turning things around so quickly, so we're
going to do some work in the conference office to
try and mitigate and put some options forward that help
with that. And you know, that four or five game
is a little bit different, so it'll be at the

(31:56):
host site, the number one host site, so the winner
of that game will turn round and play on Saturday night.
So there's some things and there's some pricing that we'll do.
You know, mostly that will be a game that we
just want to get people into the seats and give
them great hockey because the four or five game in
the NCCHC is still a phenomenal college hockey game, so
we'll do that same. Thomas will come in. They've had

(32:18):
a lot of success. They've ramped up very quickly from
a Division three program just five years ago. I believe
four years ago was this their fourth season, and I
think that they will come in. They obviously have a
brand new facility in the Lee and Penny Anderson Center
that I think our fans will enjoy. They bring back
the Twin Cities market being a central location for teams

(32:39):
traveling in. They're ten minutes from the airport, so if
you're flying in, it's a really easy trek to their arena.
So yeah, we're really excited about them coming in and
you know, just get getting back to some predictability and
getting rid of some of the bye weekend. So we
feel like we're in a strong position there.

Speaker 1 (33:00):
Yeah, it's going to be another exciting season. October the second,
I'm sure you and a lot of other people in
the league are just like, can we just get to October?
We just gets to the games and get this song
behind this?

Speaker 3 (33:10):
Can I just get some time so that I can
actually start doing this stuff like updating by laws, updating
manuals so that we actually are ready when we start
of October. Second, go let me throw in And I
don't mean to take more time, but one other thing
that I just want to throw in. There a number
of other hot topics that the oversight committee that I
think your fans will just be interested in. I don't
have a lot of information because it's probably early in

(33:32):
the conversations, but one of those is the playing season,
and potentially coaches have asked for some additional preseason practice hours,
So that's in conversation and the Hockey Oversight Committee, some
conversation about coaching limits and just the definition of who
can be on the ice and how basketball just passed
that legislation in the last month or so, so taking
a little bit of a model on that. Always conversation

(33:54):
about roster limits that obviously has to go through a
house case process, but you know, again and I think
just making sure that our sports in a in a
in a good place, and and you know, there's some
interest in increasing the maximum number of contests. Those are
not things that are immediate like are going to take
effect for next year, but those are things that we actually,

(34:16):
you know, as Bill alluded at our AGCA meetings, the
Coach's convention piece of it was was quite robust, lots
of conversation on the table and and just looking at
you know, where are we now, what what can we
do to make it better? Across the across the board.
So really some good conversations.

Speaker 2 (34:35):
Behind the scene, Alex, you know, and sometimes everyone has
to play roles, and I think Heather knows sometimes the
role I play in that room. But I tried to
get the coaches a little fired up to to get there,
for lack of a better term, coordinated message to what
needed to be said. And I from all indications, because
Eric Martinson stayed and he was in that meeting, he

(34:56):
said the coaches were great. They were great, and I
think they were focused and dial that I think led
to where we are today with some things going to
the cabinet. So it's awesome. It's awesome, and we'll see
what happens, you know, I mean, as we know, things
can change this afternoon.

Speaker 3 (35:15):
Out, but well, we want to give you a nice weekend.

Speaker 2 (35:19):
Usually it happens at about four thirty on Fridays.

Speaker 3 (35:23):
There is a consistent pattern of and let's just be clear,
it's usually five o'clock Eastern time, which hits us about
an hour earlier.

Speaker 2 (35:34):
That's correct, that's correct.

Speaker 1 (35:36):
You love that four pm Friday news dump. It's been
an eventful offseason and it's only about six weeks old. Heather.
I was thinking, again, this will be year five for
you coming up in charge of this league. You've experienced
transfer portal and HL and now age eligibility requirements and
everything else. Who knows what's coming next, but you've done
a great job managing all the chaos up to this point.

(36:00):
I'm sure it will continue for you in this outstanding league.
Hopefully you can enjoy a little bit of an off
season before too long with the boys and your family,
and we'll be talking again soon. Thanks so much, Heather
Williams bringing the thunder today. A lot going on in
her world and in the world of college hockey. This
is all coming from good places. They can sella trying

(36:21):
to find a way to have more conformity across sports,
to find a way to be a better resource for
student athletes and families, and figuring out the sweet spot
of all this. In this new era, they're still trying
to figure things out. We're still in that phase, right,
We're still in that phase of not quite being there
yet when things are going to settle.

Speaker 2 (36:41):
Yeah, I think that's right, Alex. And I knew that
Heather would be really good today because she's been in it.
So the NCHC meetings might have been about two weeks ago,
somewhere in that range, and from those meetings I left
there on a Wednesday morning and there was still meetings
going on. The coaches kind of conference was going on

(37:03):
at that stage. That's where a lot of conversation was
going on in that two week period. They've done a
lot of great work at this point in time to
try to coordinate so that hockey can be not dissimilar
to any other sport, but how can hockey and maybe
the other sports kind of condense a little bit so
there is similarity. And as Heather said, I think once

(37:26):
you have carve outs, that's where you have sometimes the
legal issues is when you have things that are just
for one sport, it becomes well, that sport has it,
why don't we have it? And so that's what's trying
to be cleaned up right now. In the most layman's
terms possible. I mean, she goes very deep into exactly
what she's doing, but hey, the people that want to

(37:48):
you know, hear things that are kind of behind the curtain,
if you will, or or non game related. This is
the reason why we do the pod.

Speaker 1 (37:57):
I love what you talked about, the unity again to
cross across all levels of hockey, where you get this
great buy in from top to bottom all the different
junior leagues, NCAA, NHL, etc. Like. Having that alignment is
going to be so important when you can bring it
to the greater NCAA board and say, hey, this is
what this sport would like and it kind of it
basically matches up with you what you're asking. It's just

(38:19):
a small provision for some of the uniqueness about hockey.
You would hope that the NA listens to that and
can make some of those exceptions.

Speaker 2 (38:27):
Yeah, we'll see. I mean, I think that's the reason
why you go through the idea of getting the word
out and then you get response back and it's it's
kind of the democratic process, so to speak. So we'll see,
we'll see what happens.

Speaker 1 (38:42):
Well, keep an eye on all that coming up over
the course of the summer. End of June, it sounds
like is when some of those decisions might be made.
Right now, we've got a little bit left of this
spring sports season for the University of North Dakota and
our programs. The outthrough Track and Field Championships happening in
Fargo as we speak. Day one was yesterday, pretty good

(39:02):
Day one for the University of North Dakota. We won't
go into all the specifics, but basically, Jayden Keeler brooke
an eleven year old Semiley record in a ten k
to winner second straight competition in that race and the one, two, three,
five seven in that events. Tiffany Magnuson was named the
Women's Outdoor Track and Field Scholar of a Championship and
then went out and won the long jump yesterday, second

(39:23):
you indie woman ever to hit the twenty foot mark.
The U and D women in the lead after day one,
obviously two days of competition left in a lot of
events still to come, but a fantastic start for the
ladies down in Fargo.

Speaker 2 (39:34):
Yeah, that's right. And you know, we've talked a lot
about track and field, and you're an expert in track
and field. But it's crazy to me how the coaches
they're math majors, like they they know they know the math,
don't they?

Speaker 1 (39:51):
To a tee, I would say yes, And I think
I think most track coaches have that. They have that
great balance between most of them former athletes you know
through or ran or jumped or whatever in college, like
have that background, but also kind of nerds like love
digging in and scoring the meat individually and looking at
the times and thinking well, what what what is she

(40:14):
gonna run or what is what is he gonna throw
it today? And can we can we squeeze a couple
more points out of this? And I think that's one
of the most fun things. From from college to high school,
you see those little conversations amongst staffs of like, hey,
if we can just get two more points out of
this kid, can we find a way to move on?
And like that's usually what these team championships come down to.
I love that part about the sport.

Speaker 2 (40:35):
Yeah, and it's so neat, you know, the idea of
not only being able to individually, you know, be a
champion if you will, or be on the podium, but
then also cheering on your team as well. So it
is it's kind of the best of both worlds really
and so yeah, so it'll all come to a climax

(40:55):
tomorrow afternoon and should be should be a lot of fun.

Speaker 1 (40:58):
Yeah, it certainly should be. Again, you can watch those
championships live on Mid Coast Sports Plus. Again if you
are a field event person, every field event is available
in its own stream. So if you just want to
watch the hammer or just want to watch the shot
or the high jump. All those things are individual pages
you can click on, or if you just want to
watch the track or a little bit of both, all
those things available live on Mid Coast Sports. Plus, this

(41:19):
won't be the end of the season for some of
you and d's athletes. The West Regional will take place
in two weeks time in Fayetteville, Arkansas, one of the
track meccas of the United States, and then two weeks
after that the other track mecha in the United States, Eugene, Oregon,
hosting the Outdoor Track and Field Championships once again the
tenth through the thirteenth. We would expect a couple of
fighting Hawks to be involved in those two competitions. So

(41:40):
best of luck to everybody as they wrap up their
outdoor track and field season. That is really the last competition.
Bill it love the year it is, and then you
truly are in summer mode. Is you get starting to
ramp up for the fall again?

Speaker 2 (41:51):
Yeah, I mean we're there right now. I mean for
sure at the end of the day. You know, our
track and field athletes, depending on who does make it
to regionals and or championships, obviously they'll be training here
and then they'll go to those events, But for sure
we are. We've really flipped the page and we're kind

(42:12):
of in that sort of summer project mode, like what
can you now change and do that do some things
that maybe you want to do differently this upcoming year.
So we're in those meetings as we literally are, you know,
going through each week at this point in time. So
should be great. And then of course, you know, our

(42:32):
staff works so hard throughout the year, you want them
to enjoy the summer where there's no games going on.
But you know, first of August when really everything kicks off,
is literally just around the corner. So you just got
to pace yourself, get yourself figured out, and do all
the things that you want to get done that you
put on that list that said, you know what, let

(42:53):
me change this over the course of the summer.

Speaker 1 (42:55):
What are some of the things that you would like
to change. What are some of the conversations you're having
now as you look either summer projects or even some
long term things. Yeah, that the ball is just beginning
to get rolling on.

Speaker 2 (43:05):
Well, you know what's interesting is always game day experience, always, always, always.
In fact, we've got a group from the ARIA and
our athletic department they were on a four hour semi
mini retreat today and trying to talk through some things
about you know, what are some of the things we're doing,
Let's just say in hockey that we could incorporate in

(43:28):
either football or basketballs or volleyballs or any other sports
that we're having. You know, softball doesn't matter soccer, but
the reality of it is, you need to have those
conversations now to get things in play going forward, especially
if it's going to be football outs because of course
we've got to bring in our teammates from the Allia

(43:48):
Center too, to make sure that that's all dialed in
so so that that's what kind of happens right now,
what actually comes out of it to some degree, you know,
probably one or two things maybe we've seen along the
way this year too that you know, we've been at
a different venue and said, ooh, that'd be pretty good
for us. So those are kind of the conversations you
have now.

Speaker 1 (44:08):
Yeah, I like that good opportunity again to revisit and
relook at what's going to take place when the whistle
blows and before that, when in a very short amount
of time, when things get started again once the fall
hits Bill, as we look ahead again. This is the
season finale of the Bill Shafs podcast. You're eight now
almost in the books. This is episode one ninety six. Traditionally,

(44:28):
we usually finish the season with a very prediction heavy
B side. Are you ready to flip to that B side?

Speaker 2 (44:35):
Bill, Let's flip to the B side, and I will
remind our listeners that last year our first pod was
actually on August fourth, so we'll see it was that
first week of August, so that that's you probably can
look forward to that in about two and a half months.

Speaker 1 (44:54):
Yeah, a short hiatus and then when things are going again. Yes,
So as we go to the be some of the
main predictions that we're gonna discuss. I think first, a
lot of our summer and a lot of the build
up to it will kind of be spent in the
soccer space. There's a lot of things going on that
we care about very much on that side of things,
So we're gonna start there. Let's begin with the most
pressing right now. For the fifteenth of May, Bill dou

(45:16):
Spurs survive? Will Spurs be in the English Premier League
come next August? When we were potting again.

Speaker 2 (45:24):
The answer is simply yes. But don't think that I
haven't done my homework on Preston North End or Bristol
City or I would say whole city, but I can't
say that, or Portsmouth, I know Stoke. There's a number
of teams that have been in the prem since I
really followed it. Queens Park Rangers were there, Watford was there.
You know, Charlton Athletic would be a new one. So

(45:47):
you know, there's just a number of sites in Sounds
that we would see in a larger a larger regular season,
a larger regular season, six games as opposed to thirty,
I think they do squeak it out. Would be nice

(46:07):
if Newcastle decides to play well at home. I hate
to say I'm rooting against someone to lose because I
don't trust the team that I follow, but that would
be nice if Newcastle will get that done, give anyhow
a present going out.

Speaker 1 (46:23):
That'd be nice, right right, wouldn't that be nice? Very
thin margins against two matches left as we pod right now,
it all comes down to this, spurs in the driver's seat,
destiny in your hands. Someone had a great quote the
other day about like they were looking at the fixtures
and like, well, you know, will Spurs win this match
or if they can just draw or they get a result,
and then what if west Ham does this? And someone said,

(46:46):
both of these teams are terrible. How can you expect
either of these seems to get any results the rest
of the year. You can't bank on any of that.
Spurs might just win by default. They could both lose
all their matches. Both could go oh and two and
Spurs will find themselves also in the Premier League. So
that's that's a definite possibility.

Speaker 2 (47:02):
One hundred percent. The reason why they are where they
are fighting relegation is because they haven't won matches.

Speaker 1 (47:08):
They don't win. They don't win. Yes, oh so we
will find out that that will happen sooner rather than later.
My second Premier League related question, how many trophies do
Arsenal win? They have two left on the table. They
have the Premier League which right now again and they
control their own destiny. If they went out, they will
be champions of the league. And they also have the
Champions League final May the thirtieth in Budapest against PSG.

Speaker 2 (47:31):
I think they do finally break through and win the
Premier League. I think they're two final matches. It would
be hard for me to imagine that they bottle this one,
but you never know. It's happened before. I don't think
they beat PSG though I don't know PSG. They just
are on a little bit of a roll right now.

(47:51):
I'm not sure. I think I think they go one
for two.

Speaker 1 (47:56):
I would tend to agree. I would tend to agree
with you on that. Yes, Arsenal, two of the worst
teams in the league who are not named Tottenham or
west Ham coming up over the next two match days,
and then they have to go, yeah, go to go
to Tour Devest and play at Paris Sentray Mount team
going for their second straight Champions League. So we'll see
how that shakes out. With some excellent matches coming up
and then Bill right after that, like less than two

(48:18):
weeks after that Champions League final, the World Cup starts
in North America, which is crazy, So a couple World
Cup prediction questions for you. The United States begins their
journey on June the twelfth against Paraguay in Los Angeles.
They play Australia June the nineteenth in Seattle, then they
come back to Sofi Stadium to play Turkey on the

(48:39):
twenty fifth. How's it gonna go? How far did the
US get? What do you see? Look into your crystal
ball and tell us what happens with the United States.

Speaker 2 (48:48):
I hate to say this. I hope I'm wrong. I
don't think we make it out of the group.

Speaker 1 (48:54):
Oh, it's tough.

Speaker 2 (48:56):
I'm not feeling it. I what little I've seen of
the US, I don't know what you can actually count on.

Speaker 1 (49:07):
That's fair.

Speaker 2 (49:09):
I don't know. I wish I could say, oh, midfield
can control the game. Awesome, you know what, we've got scorers,
We've got score Yeah, not really really, you know, Chris
Richards is nice, nice in the back. I don't know.
I don't see it. Alex, what about you? How about you?

(49:31):
Do you have your red, white and blue glasses on?

Speaker 1 (49:33):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (49:34):
You know.

Speaker 1 (49:34):
Well, I don't think. I think they do make it
out of the group, but solely because because of the expansion,
you can be a third place team and get out
of the group. And I think that the way that
this will set up, I feel like that they will
have four points after their first two matches. I don't
know how it's gonna come, if they'll if they'll beat
Paraguay and draw with Australia or vice versa. But I

(49:56):
do think they'll get a couple of results and four
points will be enough to at least be third. So
I don't know how it's gonna go beyond that. If
they can win the group, which I don't think is
gonna happen. But if they could, you would play a
third place team in the round of thirty two, which
would set up very nicely. If you are second, you'd
play a second place team. If you're third, you have
to play a first place team. So the odds of

(50:18):
how deep they get will vary greatly if they can
finish a little higher up in their group. I don't
love the vibes and how they've played in the build up.
They have a couple tough matches they play. They played
with Germany and Ghana, I believe, right before the World
Cup begins, so not exactly two opportunities to get right.
Let's just say that I think they're gonna think they
might get hammered in those games, especially the Germany game.

(50:40):
But again, they're playing on home soil. They've got some
guys who I think are are fighters, and I think
like the fact that Tyler Adams is coming back healthy,
and it feels like they've got some Maybe I'm wearing
an MLS hat right now, but it feels like some
of their MLS guys are really playing well right now,
like Diego Luna and some of these guys who will
be maybe on the fringes. Just offer something a little
bit different and at least we'll fight. I think that's

(51:01):
all we want. Just show some heart and some fight
and grind out a result or two, and then we'll
see what happens.

Speaker 2 (51:07):
Alex, what is the time frame? So group stage starts when?

Speaker 1 (51:12):
So for the United States, it starts June the twelfth,
Then it finishes June the twenty fifth, so.

Speaker 2 (51:17):
It's about a two week time frame, and then from
there that's when we go into the knockout stages.

Speaker 1 (51:23):
Depends on where they finish, but July the first would
be essentially their first opportunity to play a group stage mass,
so you'd have another six days or so before you'd
launch into the knockout rounds. When's the final July the nineteenth, kid, Yeah,
that'll long.

Speaker 2 (51:43):
Tournament that'll impact the start of some seasons, certainly in
club land.

Speaker 1 (51:51):
Yes, usually this tournament is almost exactly a month. It
usually is like thirty two days. But because of the
additional matches with I mean they added, they went from
thirty two to forty eight. That's sixteen teams. You've added
all a couple extra group stage windows, an extra knockout
round now again, now there's a round of thirty two
where it used to just start at sixteen when you're

(52:12):
knocking teams out. That's expanded this to basically be a
almost six week affair. So, yes, you will have some
It does not bode well. Let's just say that for
the early club season form you're gonna have some guys
who are knackered is the English term.

Speaker 2 (52:26):
Let me ask you a question. Okay, who do you
think wins it?

Speaker 1 (52:33):
Well, that was my next one for you. So some
of the favorites, the betting favorites right now, France, Spain, England, Brazil,
Argentina are listed as sort of the top five. Teams
are starting to come out with their final rosters. France
just came out with THEIRS, Belgium just came out with THEIRS.
Brazil Carlo Ancelotti has like a fifty six man preliminary list,

(52:55):
which essentially means nothing to me, if to be honest,
if Lamina mal was healthy, if I knew Lamina Maul
was fully fit, I would probably take Spain. Yeah yeah,
but he's not going to play until maybe their second
group stage game, and that might not matter. But he's
gonna have to play himself back into fitness with a hamstring,
so much of their attack relies on him. I saw

(53:17):
France's roster. I don't love their defense. I've watched the
lots of Ibrahima Knatz this year for Liverpool. He's going
to be their starting center back. I don't have a
lot of confidence in that. There's just some little things
that make you they have incredible A lot of these
teams have incredible attacking talents, a little suspect in the
back and all. This makes me, really, honestly, I think

(53:40):
that England might have the team that can do it.
As crazy as that sounds. They seem to me to
be the most balanced from front to back, and I
think their manager knows knockout football like it's crazy. I
think Tukel's not necessarily the nicest man in the world,
but I think he's figured this out and I think
he'll do well in this setting. As a national team.
I think they have a great chance to win the

(54:01):
whole thing.

Speaker 2 (54:02):
Yeah, I think so too. I think for them it's
going to be as much above the shoulders as anything
because of the pressure they're going to have. They all
have pressure in these countries, but certainly England. What is
it exactly sixty years ago that they won in nineteen
sixty six?

Speaker 1 (54:19):
Sixty six was the last.

Speaker 2 (54:21):
They're just going to have a lot going on there.
Where Where do you Where do you think Brazil is
on this one?

Speaker 1 (54:28):
Like, I love the manager again, You've got a manager
that is Carlo Ancelotti, won Champions leagues all the time
with AC Milan, with Real Madrid, like absolute legend. It's
his first Foray. But I think you've got a steady
hand at the tiller. They obviously kind of similar to
some other teams, great attacking talents. He's talked a lot.
He had a great interview with Adam crofton of The

(54:50):
Athletic the other day in which he discussed, Hey, when
Brazil were winning World Cups ninety four in the US
two thousand and two, we remember the attackers Ronaldinho and
Ronaldo and Rivoaldo, but they were built on defense. They
played all these attack yards, they played all these defensive midfielders,
or they played three center backs and two wing backs,

(55:11):
and I get this sense they're gonna try that and
be a little more pragmatic. And guys like Markinos, who's gonna,
you know, probably lift a Champions League trophy next week.
And like they've got some guys in defense who are
pretty good, Alison in goal, like they will be in there,
they'll be I think they have a better chance than Argentina.

Speaker 2 (55:28):
And do you think it matters? Obviously they won in
ninety four in the last time it was in US,
because it's say closer to some degree, Does does that
matter at all? You think?

Speaker 1 (55:38):
I don't think it hurts. A lot of the Brazilian
players are playing in Europe, so if this tournament was
in France or Germany or Italy or wherever, they'd be fine.
It wouldn't necessarily matter. The diaspora will travel. I think
there will be a lot of Brazilian fans that who
will be more likely to show up in Miami per
se or in Dallas or like. It's just easier to

(55:58):
get places. So I think there's some will be better
here in North America and I think it helps them.

Speaker 2 (56:05):
Think about the weather. What do you think about the weather,
I think the weather.

Speaker 1 (56:09):
I think it'll be a massive talking point, especially for
all the European teams. I think that's been one of
the big things. I think because if you look at
some of the game windows, they're gonna play four matches
a day bill in the group stage, so that means
you've got four different game windows until you get to
that last that third round. And so games are gonna
start at noon in the heat of the day in

(56:30):
some of these places, and games will be in Guadalajara
and Mexico City and in Dallas and in Houston and
in Miami. And I don't think FIFA they've not necessarily
adjusted those start times to say, Okay, this is going
to be in the American South at one o'clock in July,

(56:50):
should we perhaps move that game to the evening. I
don't think they have thought about those things. So I
think that will play a factor. How deep your squad is,
how you manage those conditions, that'll be a fact.

Speaker 2 (57:00):
Yeah, that's going to be interesting for sure. And the
last question on the soccer side for me is what
is MLS doing during that timeframe. Are they taking a hiatus.

Speaker 1 (57:11):
We're taking the break bill, We're taking the five week
six week break or so. So their last match day
is this coming week, so they will finish I guess
next week, so though May twenty third, twenty fourth, that's
their last match day and then they'll be off until
right after the semi finals. So MLS is taking a break.
They're very strategic in which they will come back right

(57:32):
after the semis and have a bunch of games on
national TV and really try and like, hey, keep it going.
So there's MLS games all the way from the semi
final up to the final. MLS will provide more players
to this World Cup than any other league in the world,
and they will take a break for those six weeks.

Speaker 2 (57:52):
All right, last last question on this one is is
there any African team you think has a shot to
make a run?

Speaker 1 (58:00):
Well, the obvious answer would be Morocco, who made it
to the semi finals last time arounds. And they still
have Astra Fakimi, who's again one of the best right
backs in the world who plays for Paris and Drama.
He's still very much at the peak of his powers.
They have a lot of other players playing at very
high levels in Europe. They just won. They won in
air quotes the Africa Cup of Nations, which was you know,

(58:23):
that's a whole different story. They were awarded the trophy
after what fifty three days after the final happened because
of some issues. But they would certainly be the team
that has the best pedigree and probably are the most
likely to make a deep run.

Speaker 2 (58:38):
Gotcha, and did you watch at all? And again, I
don't want to get too deep into a var conversation,
but the Celtic match.

Speaker 1 (58:49):
Yeah, so that's another one. Didn't love that decision that maybe.
So in the Scottish Premier League you have got Hearts Hearts,
I believe right, it's Hearts.

Speaker 2 (59:01):
Hearts they have they have. There's only been two teams
to win over the last forty years.

Speaker 1 (59:09):
It's it's Celtic and Rangers. They have this incredible duopoly
in the prem in Scotland. It's either one or the
other for the last forty years. Hearts are one point
up on Celtic and they play each other Saturday morning. Incredibly,
Celtic were this close to dropping points in their match
and it was like a n whatever ninth minute of

(59:31):
stoppage time, they get a penalty awarded to them on
a var call, which just seems so outrageous, and they
convert the penalty and now it sets up this incredible
grand stand finish which in which the depenally doesn't happen.
Things are completely different going on.

Speaker 2 (59:44):
Oh yeah, because they're now one point behind. They would
have been four points behind it with two matches to play.
So yeah, I I, you know, I thought about that
the other day and I, you know, and again it's
so it's it's almost when you go to var Alex,
I still believe this. You can slow down things if
you want to. That that changes the dynamic. And it

(01:00:06):
feels to me subjective versus objective. And it's like we
never use those words. We don't we use we we
use you know, beyond whatever you know INDs. But to me,
it's subjective or objective, and the objective is can you
see the ball cross the line? If that's the case,

(01:00:28):
it feels pretty good to me. Then you can talk
about games on how you want to manage the game.
Do you want your fingernail to be off sides? Is
that okay for you? Is it? I mean, if that's
if it's okay, then that's I guess objective. But if
that feels a little bit like you've taken a lot
away from from the fans, it feels like that's where

(01:00:52):
we've we've headed.

Speaker 1 (01:00:53):
Yeah, unfortunately, so we're hopeful it feels like again things
like this. The ground swells continued to say, we kind
of get rid. This isn't working. We're at least really
really reduce the video assistant.

Speaker 2 (01:01:04):
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Why can't we just reduce it?
Like to me, like, and if I'm an official, I
feel like I don't even know how you're officiating. You're
probably officiating, going how am I going to use this
var thing? And I'm either going to make a call
or not make a call, and it really doesn't matter
because the call will get we'll get it right on

(01:01:25):
the field. And it feels like it's taking away tremendously
right now from from I don't think this is what
they envisioned eight years ago when they signed on for.

Speaker 1 (01:01:37):
If they did, shame on them. Let's just say that.
But hopefully again, things like this, It almost takes something
like this for change to be enacted, where things are
so outrageous like what are we doing? But I don't know.
We should all be like Sweden, right, just get rid
of it. They just got rid of it.

Speaker 2 (01:01:54):
And then the last one and this is our final one.
It'll be interesting. How about this for a trivia question,
what will happen with Southampton? How you been reading on
that whole scenario?

Speaker 1 (01:02:04):
I know the spy in the bushes, Yes, spying on
Middlesborough before they're.

Speaker 2 (01:02:08):
So someone took a photo of the spy, correct, So
there was.

Speaker 1 (01:02:12):
The spy to the spy, spy the spy yep. So
they play Hull City, they do, and the winner of
that will go to the Premier League a week from
a week from Saturday, Yeah, exactly, so little ways away,
but it is it's the most lucrative game in all
of football. There's so much riding on this, and there's
a lot of push, certainly from Middlesbrough, the team that

(01:02:34):
Southampton beat, and from others to say they should they
should not be allowed to contest that and they've gained
an unfair advantage in spying on our team, Like a
fine isn't enough. They should be kicked out. So we
will see. It's been an interesting story. People. People have
opinions they.

Speaker 2 (01:02:52):
Are going to go to some arbitration though. Yeah, and
apparently that's gonna happen here prior to the game.

Speaker 1 (01:02:59):
Prior to the game, so there's a little precedence in
which when Marcelo Bielsa, who's currently the Uruguayan head coach,
was coach I believe he was managing Leeds. This he
he was like, yeah, why wouldn't I spy on the
other team? There were no rules against this. This wasn't
in like the dossier you get as a manager, so
we sent somebody to go spy. He was caught and
he said, I didn't know that was It wasn't against

(01:03:20):
the rules, but I understand if you're upset about it.
And then his team was fined. He paid the fine himself.
Marcelo Bielsa took he said, yep, I did it. Sorry,
I want to do it again now that it's in
the rule book. And they made rules to say you
can't do this, but they didn't say what the punishment
was if you do do it. And that's where we
are right now. So the rules have been broken. We

(01:03:42):
don't know how much of a slap on the wrist
or an actual boot that Southampton will get we will
see the Saints bill the Saints Saintly.

Speaker 2 (01:03:52):
You know what you know, here's the thing about Liverpool.
As difficult of a year as you've had, you're still
gonna be in champions Championsly.

Speaker 1 (01:04:01):
I know it's crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:04:02):
I mean, I know that first world problems with Liverpool.

Speaker 1 (01:04:05):
Tell me about it. I know they're in fourth place.
It they haven't really covered themselves in glory to get
to the finish line. But it's it is funny when
you see the crowd booing at Anfield in a one
one draw against Chelsea. You're booing your own seam and
a one one draw against Chelsea. But it's like, I
think just the nature of the draw and the way
the season's gone, and there's just so much like I

(01:04:26):
think people are just disappointed because last year was so
amazing and then they strengthened the squad and it's gotten
so much worse and it's just like, why why did
this happen? Sometimes one one plus one doesn't make two.

Speaker 2 (01:04:40):
And that's where I don't know if anybody from the
Fenway Sports Group wants to either go to Fenway Park
or Anfield. No places are off limits right now.

Speaker 1 (01:04:51):
No, they're going to uh whatever, the more exclusive places
than Martha's Vinyard, just to get away from it all.
Well whatever, the next level of the is whatever, they're
going to the bus compounds, They're going some place.

Speaker 2 (01:05:05):
That's it.

Speaker 1 (01:05:06):
That's it.

Speaker 2 (01:05:07):
Oh well, we wrap it up, We wrap it up,
Alex another.

Speaker 1 (01:05:11):
Books Man eight season spill of this incredible, still chatting
about things and replay. We're still talking about I love it.

Speaker 2 (01:05:21):
That will never end until we'll get We'll get Ralston
on next year to give us the replay opinions he's
got on it, which is great. But no, I I
knew that having Heather on here on the final one
was going to be really, really good. And and again
back to the reasons why we do this is really
not necessarily to talk about the games and the results
and those types of things. It's more than behind the

(01:05:43):
scenes type of stuff. And I thought Heather did a
fantastic job today explaining what you know, the situation is
with hockey.

Speaker 1 (01:05:50):
Yeah, certainly a lot to explain that, a lot to
still unpack in that regard, but yeah, big thanks to
Heather Weans for taking a good chunk of her day
to come and break those things down for us. Thanks
as always to Soccer Johnson and Paul Ralston potentially soon
to be double winning Paul Ralston if Arsenal can pull
some things off this weekend for all their work over
the course of the run of this show. Bill, thanks
to you for offering your time and your insights over

(01:06:11):
the course of the year.

Speaker 2 (01:06:12):
And thank you to you, Alex and and to Midco
for supporting this pod each and every year. So we're
excited about it. We'll come back at you early August.

Speaker 1 (01:06:21):
That's the plan. That is the plan. So with that
we will put a bow on season eight's of the
Bill Shaves Podcast. He is Bill Shaves. I'm Alex Hider.
Thank you so much for listening all the way through
all the nonsense that we get into at the end
of these things, but all the good stuff. Hopefully you've
enjoyed these conversations. Hopefully they've made you a smarter fan
and given you some insight on what's going on around
un D and the NCAA and soil. We return in

(01:06:44):
a couple of months time. Have a great, great summer,
take care of yourself and we'll talk soon.

Speaker 3 (01:07:00):
The posting stand in the Propa