September 11, 2024 • 14 mins
Psychologist and author Dr. Karyne Wilner has written a new book coming out in late 2024 about women expressing anger. She is known for her work in the field of body psychotherapy and energy psychology. The new book is "Releasing Toxic Anger for Women: Somatic practices and CBT skills to transform negative thoughts, soothe stress, and stay true to yourself." She discusses her approach to becoming aware of anger, an important and useful emotion, to change its form from negative to positive.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This week on iHeart Sensey.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
You don't want to fly off the handle. First of all,
give this women a bad reputation, and second to all,
it doesn't solve any problems.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
Today on the show, my first guest is a psychologist
and the author of a new book coming out on
women's anger, how to deal with people and how to
get what you need. Doctor Karen Wilner is here to
help all of us of all ages, harness anger for
its benefits and has tips on how to manage it
and still get.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
What you want. Now on iHeart Sensey with Sandy.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Collins, my first guest has more than forty years experience
in psychology. Doctor Karen Wilner is known for her work
in the field of body psychotherapy and energy psychology. Her
new book is called Releasing Toxic Anger for Women, Somatic
practices and CBT skills to transform negative thoughts, soothe stress,
(00:54):
and stay true to yourself. This book is intended to
teach how to become aware of anger and change its
form from negative to positive. Doctor Wilmer, thank you for
being on the show. You call yourself an energy psychologist
treating the whole person, and I remember just twenty thirty
(01:14):
years ago when that concept first appeared in my life,
and I always wondered, well, why is that considered a
novel idea? Didn't we always consider the mind body connection together.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
I'm not sure what it was. You know, early on,
probably a couple hundred years ago, I think it was
a holistic approach. And then with Freud, you know, psychology
became very mental and a lot of Europeans hadn't letting
go of the idea of body. And wilielm Reich is
one person who actually trained under Freud and he believed
(01:53):
in energy. So energy it's kind of like chi and acupuncture.
It flows through our body. But what happens when it
gets stuck, When it gets stuck in certain muscles and organs,
it affects our emotions and our physical health. So somatics,
which means body in psychology, has taken off again in
(02:18):
the Western world, which is just great. So the mind
and body we think about as one. And how I
work with that with clients is we may be talking
and I'll say, wait, stop, what's happening in your body?
What do you feel? And then there may be a
feeling which actually calls for them to get up and
(02:40):
move around like today, I had someone who was having
a hard time feeling the earth being grounded, being committed
in his life, stand up and just become the tree
with roots going deep into the ground. So it's really
kind of fun and interesting and people get great results.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
Emotions are so hard for everybody, And this audience is
listening to the show right now, ranges from six to
one hundred, you know, everybody in between, and we're all
taught different things or taught nothing at all about our
emotions or how to listen to our bodies and how
to trust our gut instincts. How do you approach helping
(03:22):
people understand how to label their emotions?
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Well, I don't exactly tell them what their emotions are
because everyone is unique, but I might just say, what
does that feel? And sometimes people aren't a word, so
I'll say, well, describe that sensation, and then we might
begin to look for a common label. Right now, there's
a very popular Disney movie which I haven't seen, which
(03:47):
is Inside Out, but I think it's talking about this
kind of thing, and I can't wait to see it. So,
and there are games for children about labeling different emotions,
so people begin to first sense it in their body
and then begin to find the label for it. I mean, anger,
for instance, which is what my recent book is about,
(04:09):
may feel very differently for different people. So I don't
even know exactly what we're each labeling, but you know,
we're having some similar experience with it.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
I was kind of getting to how do you get
them to understand what it is that they're feeling. I
guess labeling isn't the exact right word, but identifying that
this feeling is that I remember myself not knowing as
a child. I remember trying to teach my daughter that,
and so that's very interesting and I'm sure your written
works will help with that. But this anger, let's talk
(04:43):
about It's very important emotion. Why does society accept men's anger,
but then when a woman is angry or assertive it
can be seen as a real negative.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Well, I think in some ways, I'm beginning to think
that society for hundreds of years have wanted to keep
women in a more powerless position. So if anger has
a fire to it, it can be a warrior, you know.
Or it's what I try to do is help women
(05:20):
be assertive with it and not be mean or cruel
with it. But nevertheless, it's a sense of power, of equality,
and I think society for a long time has been
afraid of that. You know, there's been a you know,
there's been a dominant culture and it hasn't been women
for a long time.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
I remember my favorite analogy in college was what's the
difference between being assertive and aggressive? And the professor said,
being assertive is getting what you need and being aggressive
is leaving dead bodies behind.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
So let's talk about anger.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
How do you how do you do that with women
and show them how to express their anger.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Well, first of all, for someone who's feeling really fiery hot,
really you know, once is feeling really hurt and they
want to strike out at whoever hurt them, my first
thing would be saying, don't just ground feel your feet
on the floor. If you're sitting down, pressure feet really
(06:26):
hard into the floor, or you can just stand up
and do some squats or something to bring yourself to
the ground, because ground represents reality and you don't want
to fly off the handle. First of all, it gives
women a bad reputation, and second of all, it doesn't
solve any problems. I mean, anger can be a good
(06:47):
thing if you aim at at problem solving, and there's
probably a problem and it needs to be solved. You're
not going to do it if you're hot, if you're
trying to punish the other person or get back at them,
which is what often people do when they're angry, is
you know, they try to get somebody. So ground is
(07:07):
the first thing, and that's a body thing. It's with
your feet, it's pressing yourself into the floor. And then
take some time to to think about what you were
talking about. Ask for what you need. Be assertive, not aggressive.
So aggressive is punishment, it's I'll get back at you.
(07:28):
You hurt me, so I'm going to get you back.
Assertive is you know I need you to cook dinner
twice a week. Let's make a deal. I do it
four times, you do it twice and once we go
out something like that. So assertive is not being quiet,
not accepting the status quo, using your anger to create change,
(07:50):
but by asking or telling someone this is what I
need now. If you don't get it, that's another thing,
and not you're not going to get it all the time, obviously,
and if you're in relationships with people where you're not
seen and heard. Again, anger isn't the answer it maybe
having to make a change in your life and do
(08:13):
something different in those relationships, or worst case, leave the relationship.
So you know, what I ask women to do is
don't blame your bad you know, because you're telling someone
they're a bad person. That never gets you anywhere. It
just gets more anger directed at you. Don't criticize, but again,
(08:37):
be assertive, ask for what you need, and do it
in a kind way.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
I'm talking with doctor Karen Wilner. She is written a
new book called Releasing Toxic Anger for Women, and we're
talking about how women can learn to speak assertively and
to manage their anger and actually feel better while you're anger.
I know you use some practices some body practices are
called somatic practices to help soothe your stress and make
(09:07):
your body feel better. Because that's the problem is that
people allow their anger to build up and then it explodes.
And you were talking earlier about that energy, that energy
you get stuck. So when you get stuck, you say,
ground yourself. But how can you then recover? Should you
walk away for a bit and reset, or should you
(09:27):
try to handle the situation right there.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
To walk away for a bit? Whether that's five minutes,
three hours, or three days until you really feel ground
and you feel stable on your feet. You don't feel hot,
you can look you get your jaws and clenched. You don't.
Your muscles aren't tight, you're not in the contraction. So
when you're relaxed, then it's time to really say to
(09:55):
the other person, I'm ready to talk. You also have
to make sure they're ready. You look at their jaw.
You know, if they're like this and they're you know,
everything's tight. No, So if the person has a very
tight jaw, or they're clenching their fists, or they're not
looking at you, that's another sign they're not ready to talk.
(10:17):
Don't push it. A lot of women push it. They
don't look at the cues. So you want to both
be ready to talk and then ask for what you need.
One thing would be to do something called a strength sandwich.
So you say something positive, then you say the negative,
I'd like you to do this differently, and then you
(10:38):
give another positive. So it's kind of like peanut butter
and jelly. Another thing is take responsibility. Usually, if you're angry,
you're involved in it. You did something too, So take
responsibility for your participants patient, Like I know I wasn't
listening to you very well the other day. Say your part,
(11:04):
and then I like to you mentioned what I like
to do is have people move, So get up. Do
not when the person's present, but even before you talk
to somebody, go into a private room, even if it's
a bathroom, and do a war dance. You know, really
you get your body moving. And then after you're done moving,
(11:28):
and really you can even put it on some music,
some drumming music. Stop. Think of that person you're angry at,
but think of a couple really positive things about them.
They're in your life because of something unique or special,
So think of that and then say I want to
(11:51):
talk to you. I have something on my mind.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
I think finding the words to describe what you want
is where a lot of women in particular have trouble.
I know myself, just reading about how to be clearer
in your communication and use different words than you're used
to expressing the fact that you did make a mistake,
(12:15):
because no one likes to make mistakes. And for the
longest time, I felt like if I ever said I
was sorry, it would make me a lesser person. And
I had a very good friend that finally, after many
years of helping me with that said, you know, no,
the bigger person is the one that takes responsibility for
what happened and just sincerely apologizes and then moves on.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
And that was just like wow. So talking with.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
Your friends about these things, doing your own research and
finding those little cues all help. You've written this book,
Releasing Toxic Anger for Women CBT. That would be cognitive
behavioral therapy, is that right? CBT skills and somatic practices
to decrease negative thinkings, sooth stress, and be true to yourself.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
Who long title? When is it coming out?
Speaker 2 (13:02):
It launches December first, so that's the big day when
it's actually you can get print volumes. But if you
go on Amazon right now, there are pre sales and
just look for releasing talk to the Gannger for Women
by doctor Karen Wilner, and there.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
You'll be terrific.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
Do you have anything that you want to pass along
before we wrap up today?
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Just with anger, always put safety first. In other words,
if you're too angry, or if someone else is, then
remove yourself from the situation, even if it means going
for a while, or I wouldn't say getting in your
car and driving because you might have an accident, but
(13:45):
maybe sitting down and meditating and anger is a very
positive feeling. It's there to protect us, it's there to
help us solve problems. It even helps with our creativity.
So it's a beautiful thing when, like any tool, it's
used correctly.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
That's beautifully said.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
Thank you so much for being on the show, Doctor
Karen Wilner. Look for her book coming out in December.
It's titled Releasing Toxic Anger for Women
This week on iHeart Sensey.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
You don't want to fly off the handle. First of all,
give this women a bad reputation, and second to all,
it doesn't solve any problems.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
Today on the show, my first guest is a psychologist
and the author of a new book coming out on
women's anger, how to deal with people and how to
get what you need. Doctor Karen Wilner is here to
help all of us of all ages, harness anger for
its benefits and has tips on how to manage it
and still get.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
What you want. Now on iHeart Sensey with Sandy.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Collins, my first guest has more than forty years experience
in psychology. Doctor Karen Wilner is known for her work
in the field of body psychotherapy and energy psychology. Her
new book is called Releasing Toxic Anger for Women, Somatic
practices and CBT skills to transform negative thoughts, soothe stress,
(00:54):
and stay true to yourself. This book is intended to
teach how to become aware of anger and change its
form from negative to positive. Doctor Wilmer, thank you for
being on the show. You call yourself an energy psychologist
treating the whole person, and I remember just twenty thirty
(01:14):
years ago when that concept first appeared in my life,
and I always wondered, well, why is that considered a
novel idea? Didn't we always consider the mind body connection together.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
I'm not sure what it was. You know, early on,
probably a couple hundred years ago, I think it was
a holistic approach. And then with Freud, you know, psychology
became very mental and a lot of Europeans hadn't letting
go of the idea of body. And wilielm Reich is
one person who actually trained under Freud and he believed
(01:53):
in energy. So energy it's kind of like chi and acupuncture.
It flows through our body. But what happens when it
gets stuck, When it gets stuck in certain muscles and organs,
it affects our emotions and our physical health. So somatics,
which means body in psychology, has taken off again in
(02:18):
the Western world, which is just great. So the mind
and body we think about as one. And how I
work with that with clients is we may be talking
and I'll say, wait, stop, what's happening in your body?
What do you feel? And then there may be a
feeling which actually calls for them to get up and
(02:40):
move around like today, I had someone who was having
a hard time feeling the earth being grounded, being committed
in his life, stand up and just become the tree
with roots going deep into the ground. So it's really
kind of fun and interesting and people get great results.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
Emotions are so hard for everybody, And this audience is
listening to the show right now, ranges from six to
one hundred, you know, everybody in between, and we're all
taught different things or taught nothing at all about our
emotions or how to listen to our bodies and how
to trust our gut instincts. How do you approach helping
(03:22):
people understand how to label their emotions?
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Well, I don't exactly tell them what their emotions are
because everyone is unique, but I might just say, what
does that feel? And sometimes people aren't a word, so
I'll say, well, describe that sensation, and then we might
begin to look for a common label. Right now, there's
a very popular Disney movie which I haven't seen, which
(03:47):
is Inside Out, but I think it's talking about this
kind of thing, and I can't wait to see it. So,
and there are games for children about labeling different emotions,
so people begin to first sense it in their body
and then begin to find the label for it. I mean, anger,
for instance, which is what my recent book is about,
(04:09):
may feel very differently for different people. So I don't
even know exactly what we're each labeling, but you know,
we're having some similar experience with it.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
I was kind of getting to how do you get
them to understand what it is that they're feeling. I
guess labeling isn't the exact right word, but identifying that
this feeling is that I remember myself not knowing as
a child. I remember trying to teach my daughter that,
and so that's very interesting and I'm sure your written
works will help with that. But this anger, let's talk
(04:43):
about It's very important emotion. Why does society accept men's anger,
but then when a woman is angry or assertive it
can be seen as a real negative.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Well, I think in some ways, I'm beginning to think
that society for hundreds of years have wanted to keep
women in a more powerless position. So if anger has
a fire to it, it can be a warrior, you know.
Or it's what I try to do is help women
(05:20):
be assertive with it and not be mean or cruel
with it. But nevertheless, it's a sense of power, of equality,
and I think society for a long time has been
afraid of that. You know, there's been a you know,
there's been a dominant culture and it hasn't been women
for a long time.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
I remember my favorite analogy in college was what's the
difference between being assertive and aggressive? And the professor said,
being assertive is getting what you need and being aggressive
is leaving dead bodies behind.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
So let's talk about anger.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
How do you how do you do that with women
and show them how to express their anger.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Well, first of all, for someone who's feeling really fiery hot,
really you know, once is feeling really hurt and they
want to strike out at whoever hurt them, my first
thing would be saying, don't just ground feel your feet
on the floor. If you're sitting down, pressure feet really
(06:26):
hard into the floor, or you can just stand up
and do some squats or something to bring yourself to
the ground, because ground represents reality and you don't want
to fly off the handle. First of all, it gives
women a bad reputation, and second of all, it doesn't
solve any problems. I mean, anger can be a good
(06:47):
thing if you aim at at problem solving, and there's
probably a problem and it needs to be solved. You're
not going to do it if you're hot, if you're
trying to punish the other person or get back at them,
which is what often people do when they're angry, is
you know, they try to get somebody. So ground is
(07:07):
the first thing, and that's a body thing. It's with
your feet, it's pressing yourself into the floor. And then
take some time to to think about what you were
talking about. Ask for what you need. Be assertive, not aggressive.
So aggressive is punishment, it's I'll get back at you.
(07:28):
You hurt me, so I'm going to get you back.
Assertive is you know I need you to cook dinner
twice a week. Let's make a deal. I do it
four times, you do it twice and once we go
out something like that. So assertive is not being quiet,
not accepting the status quo, using your anger to create change,
(07:50):
but by asking or telling someone this is what I
need now. If you don't get it, that's another thing,
and not you're not going to get it all the time, obviously,
and if you're in relationships with people where you're not
seen and heard. Again, anger isn't the answer it maybe
having to make a change in your life and do
(08:13):
something different in those relationships, or worst case, leave the relationship.
So you know, what I ask women to do is
don't blame your bad you know, because you're telling someone
they're a bad person. That never gets you anywhere. It
just gets more anger directed at you. Don't criticize, but again,
(08:37):
be assertive, ask for what you need, and do it
in a kind way.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
I'm talking with doctor Karen Wilner. She is written a
new book called Releasing Toxic Anger for Women, and we're
talking about how women can learn to speak assertively and
to manage their anger and actually feel better while you're anger.
I know you use some practices some body practices are
called somatic practices to help soothe your stress and make
(09:07):
your body feel better. Because that's the problem is that
people allow their anger to build up and then it explodes.
And you were talking earlier about that energy, that energy
you get stuck. So when you get stuck, you say,
ground yourself. But how can you then recover? Should you
walk away for a bit and reset, or should you
(09:27):
try to handle the situation right there.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
To walk away for a bit? Whether that's five minutes,
three hours, or three days until you really feel ground
and you feel stable on your feet. You don't feel hot,
you can look you get your jaws and clenched. You don't.
Your muscles aren't tight, you're not in the contraction. So
when you're relaxed, then it's time to really say to
(09:55):
the other person, I'm ready to talk. You also have
to make sure they're ready. You look at their jaw.
You know, if they're like this and they're you know,
everything's tight. No, So if the person has a very
tight jaw, or they're clenching their fists, or they're not
looking at you, that's another sign they're not ready to talk.
(10:17):
Don't push it. A lot of women push it. They
don't look at the cues. So you want to both
be ready to talk and then ask for what you need.
One thing would be to do something called a strength sandwich.
So you say something positive, then you say the negative,
I'd like you to do this differently, and then you
(10:38):
give another positive. So it's kind of like peanut butter
and jelly. Another thing is take responsibility. Usually, if you're angry,
you're involved in it. You did something too, So take
responsibility for your participants patient, Like I know I wasn't
listening to you very well the other day. Say your part,
(11:04):
and then I like to you mentioned what I like
to do is have people move, So get up. Do
not when the person's present, but even before you talk
to somebody, go into a private room, even if it's
a bathroom, and do a war dance. You know, really
you get your body moving. And then after you're done moving,
(11:28):
and really you can even put it on some music,
some drumming music. Stop. Think of that person you're angry at,
but think of a couple really positive things about them.
They're in your life because of something unique or special,
So think of that and then say I want to
(11:51):
talk to you. I have something on my mind.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
I think finding the words to describe what you want
is where a lot of women in particular have trouble.
I know myself, just reading about how to be clearer
in your communication and use different words than you're used
to expressing the fact that you did make a mistake,
(12:15):
because no one likes to make mistakes. And for the
longest time, I felt like if I ever said I
was sorry, it would make me a lesser person. And
I had a very good friend that finally, after many
years of helping me with that said, you know, no,
the bigger person is the one that takes responsibility for
what happened and just sincerely apologizes and then moves on.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
And that was just like wow. So talking with.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
Your friends about these things, doing your own research and
finding those little cues all help. You've written this book,
Releasing Toxic Anger for Women CBT. That would be cognitive
behavioral therapy, is that right? CBT skills and somatic practices
to decrease negative thinkings, sooth stress, and be true to yourself.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
Who long title? When is it coming out?
Speaker 2 (13:02):
It launches December first, so that's the big day when
it's actually you can get print volumes. But if you
go on Amazon right now, there are pre sales and
just look for releasing talk to the Gannger for Women
by doctor Karen Wilner, and there.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
You'll be terrific.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
Do you have anything that you want to pass along
before we wrap up today?
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Just with anger, always put safety first. In other words,
if you're too angry, or if someone else is, then
remove yourself from the situation, even if it means going
for a while, or I wouldn't say getting in your
car and driving because you might have an accident, but
(13:45):
maybe sitting down and meditating and anger is a very
positive feeling. It's there to protect us, it's there to
help us solve problems. It even helps with our creativity.
So it's a beautiful thing when, like any tool, it's
used correctly.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
That's beautifully said.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
Thank you so much for being on the show, Doctor
Karen Wilner. Look for her book coming out in December.
It's titled Releasing Toxic Anger for Women
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